we will be undertaking a review of this which will be attending implementation. we will be looking at to be centers of excellence for health. the stock has been involved in this issue. we will be looking at those from the standpoint of implementation. >> one thing i would like to bring to the attention of the committee is that the colonel is a good example of how this works. . .

>> i want to make sure we have a system that looks closely at the ability to serve and think outside the box and look to people like karl gattison and others. once you can't stay on active-duty, i do believe we could do a lot better than just the two agency -- the agencies involved had a department of

defense to take care of soldiers. and veteran affairs is to take care of those who have served. and the interim period of time between medical discharge and evaluation and rehabilitation is -- is always going to be complex. but this idea of standard definitions that mental health services and rehabilitative services, for an active-dutyy member should not be materially different than somebody that goes in the v.a. and that's what the doctor was telling us and colonel gattison was telling us, when i was an active-duty person or lived in this region, i wanted to, i had certain services vabe. when i went into the new system the v.a., all of a sudden my access to outpatient services was limited. and did you all look at that? >> i could talk about that.

i have done a lot of work across a lot of different programs, i would say in many respects the policies and procedures that pertain to reserve and guardsman often put them at a disadvantage. there's a belief in many respects, and we have identified that. when you look at the disability evaluation system, one in four that come in are either guard or reserve force member. a larger portion of our standing military is guard or reserve. and i -- i brought this up at other testimony. it play be time to start looking at our policies. we have policies -- >> and they were telling us about compensation. he's a reservist, not 20 years retirement eligible, he has to wait until 60. yes, exactly. >> there are many issues related to pre-existing conditions and how guards can get caught in the situation and be aced out of benefits. and i think we have -- policies that were set up when we had this traditional army for many

years ago, and we're moving to a now force. >> do you think both organizations are sensitive to the guard and reserve dilemma. i think ter. in the case of the disability evaluation pilot which we have been able to get behind, versus a policy. >> one final area and i'll yield here. she was talking about -- about -- the doctor was talking about, i think her husband was active-dutyy and when he got out of the system, this was a limitation on therapy. access to therapy. did you find that when u you were looking at it and going from one system to the other, all of a sudden changed the membership new you had to choose from in terms of therapies. >> no we didn't look at that specifically under the -- we were following the pilot. >> i think that's what she said, i think that when her husband got discharged that some of the therapies that were available on active-duty were not available through the v.a. system.

thank you so much. >> thank you. >> senator. >> thank you so much. >> and i want to follow up on, the comment from lieutenant regarding -- the 76 policies and the magic number and they have done 60 or 70 of these and that you just confirmed they had the policys in place. are you planning or will you be doing the measurement of the success of the polingses or have you or is there a baseline to measure against. in your own words, i'm going to speaks a a moment as a former mayor, when we got audited, we would write a policy and satisfied and check the box and move on. it is when they came back and said, what did you do? that was more -- important. so what is the plan? or is there a plan? and if there's for man, do we need to help you get a plan on that? >> no. i mentioned two things that

we're going to be doing. >> i heard those but on these specific -- here's why. i'm walking through the steps, 76 new policies, and now, of those 76 new policies, i'm following up with what senator graham was getting at and that's now there are measurable method to determine if those policies are working or not. in order to determine that, you have to have a baseline to where they are on every one of the policies and where we hope to go and if they achieve that. understand the other two you mentioned but specifically about the 76. i see, mr. bert tony, did you -- >> i can talk about this in terms of disability program. >> we have a disability system that is, the current system that most nearly all folks are going through. we have a pilot that is being, we're looking at right now, 14 locations on the way up to 21 but by june, potential to roll that out worldwide. that's potentially what will be. and we have been able to look at that pilot, we have been

tracking it for over a year and looking at manies a spebts of what d.o.d. and v.a. are trying to do there. in many respects, the baseline is what is now what is the current system, what is broke and what are they trying to fix? and how is the pilot comparing against the existing system. that at least in this example, that's a baseline and many policy that is randy referred to are modifications of the existing system and sort of many of the policies that are being folded into the pilot. in some ways we have looked at, got behind the implementation and effectiveness of some policies, at least from a disability standpoint. >> can i -- i'm assuming i will at least there'll be one member that i like to see, what i like to see is graphically what happens, in your own words, if the person used to take this much time going through the process, how much time does it take him now. they used to receive this much service and now they're receiving this much service. could you share that, even if it

is pilot status? >> the pilot is ongoing but we issued two testimonies and one report on this. it certainly d.o.d. and v.a. are tacking timeliness and -- and transparency, and customer satisfaction. and measuring that against the -- the existing system. with 14 sites, there's data coming in and i could say that if you looked at that data, it tends to be trending pretty well. but our concern is fairly early on, the high risk more difficult sites won't be rolled out in time for the data to begin writing the final report. i don't know if you all will have the data you're looking for in terms of the effectiveness of the pilot, relative to the other system as of august 2009. >> and let me follow up on the def in addition issue. you mentioned about -- i don't know when mentioned it, about three-quarters of the definitions are kind of agreed to or -- there's an understanding, i'm guessing the

last quarter is the tougher group. and what is the timetable, do you think -- you'll see unification of the definitions? >> in terms of where -- when they have agreement. >> right. >> i don't know. i think that's a good question for the next panel. >> and -- next panel be ready. that's the question. you play just include in your opening comments so we could dispense with it. one other idea, and i don't know all of the technical terms, so i apologize and you could clarify them for me. but as described by the lieutenant, there's a process that the -- as you're being discharged as a process of determination and then there's a process at the v.a. why not have one board meeting? why not combine them together and have one review at the same time. even though there is differences in the questioning and allow that to occur and you're done. >> and it is the disability evaluation system. that's exactly what the pilot is trying to do. right now we have a -- medical

evaluation board and informal physical evaluation board and formal physical evaluation board at the d.o.d. rating and decision on fitness and -- >> all at the same time? >> this is d.o.d.'s system. once that occurs and it is a person is found unfit, they'll transition into the civilian world and go through another set of reviews for the v.a. what the pilot is trying to do is move the person through concurrently in these systems and have the emmy be the evaluation board and physical evaluation board and have v.a. in this at the same time doing a com helps i exam and issue a rating that d.o.d. could make to make the decision and v.a. will use to ultimately assign a disability rating for the service member. so, in this situation, service members are going to know pretty much what they'll serve as long as they leave the service. that's the idea of trying to compress this and make separate

situations concurrent. >> last question on that, based on the pilot and again, because i'm new here, i don't know what the timetable is. if the pilots, using just my thinking here, it sounds like it is going -- it is much better than the existing system, no matter how you cut it. there's jurisdictional issues but -- if the goal is to deal with the service person as the priority, the jurisdiction goes by the side but put that aside for a second. and have you or someone, maybe it is the next panel laid out a strategy of timetables, assuming -- that's what i assume here. pilots are working, when do we see them all up and operational so the old system is gone. >> i don't think -- e >> next panel? >> we got information on that. whether we would say it is much better, i think that the jury is out. we have 14 sites and limited data that -- that is coming in. they haven't tresed the -- stressed the pilot under a range

of scenarios that they could stress it at. there are a number of different base cease and they're working towards, farther down the line. and i do know they'll be up to 21 by i believe sites by june of 2009 and have to issue a final report in august. i don't know if they're going to say at that time that this is ready for further sexaven shun. i think there are another seven sites that they play roll out in the fall but the timeline for the worldwide implementation, i haven't seen anything it that effect. and my concern is that they have all the data and that this would be a data driven decision, that they could crank back into any system that is proposed. >> thank you for your testimony. >> thank you, senator. senator haigen. >> i'm going to wait for the next panel. >> thank you. we thank the panel for your appearance here today for -- for providing us an update and analysis of progress and -- and

that that remains we hope that this partnership that you're a part of as well will continue into the future. and time is important, but getting it right is also important. so we thank you, thank you so much. >> on our third panel -- we

welcome miss gail h. mig ginn deputy of secretary of defense and mrs. ellen embry, the deputy assistant secretary of defense for health affairs and mr. roger dims dale executive director department of veterans affairs department of defense collaboration and office of policy and planning for the department of veterans affairs and major general, keith -- w. merlin, united states air force, acting director of the -- of the office of transition policy and care coordination. and rear admiral gregory a. timberlake, united states navy acting director of the joint d.o.d., v.a. interagency program office. and dr. karen guys, executive director of the federal recovery coordination, for the department of veterans affairs. we have many actings here today because of the change in

administrations. we're fortunate to have your testimony because each of you played an integral role in developmenting and implementing the wounded warrior policies. we're obviously counting on you to give us your honest assessment of the work that the departments have completed as well as areas where problems remain and work also -- work remains. we look forward to your statements, miss mcginn, if you would like to begin. chairman and members, i am pleased to be here today to discuss the department's ongoing effort in collaboration with the department of veteran's affairs to support the wounded warriors and their families. i will be addressing the oorgs, d.o.d. has put in place to continue and build on the partnership between our two agencies. and the department of defense has made in my estimation, an extraordinary organizational commitment to sustaining and enhancing our structures for continued progress on this

front. and two years ago when events brought to light the need for focus on wounded warrior support, the departments moved quickly to put organizational structure in place to staff the senior oversight committee in its decision making and oversight role because we needed to move quickly, the structure was of necessity ad hoc km priced of borrowed executives and civilian detainees. d.o.d. is replacing this staff with permanent employees and senior resources and 50 permanent additional positions. these are in addition to the resources dedicated to the interagency program office. our structure creates coordination of care. and an office of strategic planning and performance management. and encompassing an executive secretary tay yacht for oversight committee and executive council matters. this continues the work of the

prior organization. and the lines of action continue. transfers to permanent executives and the functions of the previous senior oversight staff office transferred to the executive secretary yacht. and so this organization has important features. first it correction an organizational issue. there was previously no senior executive charged exclusive with working with the department of veteran affairs, to achieve a seamless transition for our service members and now their well-being. and -- and it enhances our role with the joint executive council and the development of the joint strategic plan to drive the improvement of benefits and health care for all veterans, and in addition to -- to continuing the extraordinary efforts in support of the wounded warrior. and these offices of d. 0 o.d. are colocated with the v.a. office of the collaboration to insure day-to-day collaboration. and in fact, they have recently moved to new permanent office

space. and i have worked for the department of defense for decades and i have never seen faster and more committed progress than that embodied in the accomplishments of the senior oversight committee as it administrationed the various recommendations of studies and commissions, and the challenges given to us by your congressional action. the disability evaluation system and the revolution and care coordination and customer care and advances in responding to traumatic brain injury and posttraumatic stress disorder and progress and sharing of electronic information and this is not all of it, but it is impressive, my colleagues will speak to these and other accomplishments in more detail. but as you heard in the first panel our work on behalf of the wounded warrior is not done. as the g.a.o. representatives noted we're creating new organizations, we're completing our hires and insure our processes if collaboration with v.a. into the bry or the work of the department are accomplished.

we will establish meck tricks and evaluation processes to make sure our focus is steady and to make sure that we can see where our policies and practices play break down as we start to implement them and so we could find the gaps and fix them. we will continuously review program implementation to find those policy and program gaps. and we will integrate the strategic planning for the support of the wounded warrior into the overall plans for personnel and readiness so all of these plans are imbedded in the essence of what we do every day. and we will continue to review the support systems for the wounded and also importantly for their familys and loved ones and complaint our focus on customer care. we will continue our emphasis and mental health and the need for psychological fitness. the commitment is unwaivering as noted the skts shared the sock

during transition so we could continue momentum and yesterday deputy secretary lynn and gould from the v.a. cochaired their first sock and made a commitment to go forward on behalf of wounded warriors. mr. chairman and members of the subcommittee, we thank you for your continuing support as we drive to -- strive to work with you to provide care and at some points for our heroic wupeded warriors and their families, thank you. >> thank you. >> and had miss embry. >> members of the committee, thank you again for the opportunity to discuss what the department of defense is doing to improve the quality of care for our wounded warriors, with respect it psychological health needs and traumatic brain injuries. i'm pleased-to-here. it is my great honor and responsibility over the last two years to be the department of defense lead, and in partnership with my counter parts in the v.a. and dr. lou beck and dr.

ire are katz it address the work of line of action two which focuses on achieving improvements in health outcomes associated with psychological health and post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury, today i briefly u doesed the role of my office in overseeing the health related aspects of line of action four, which focused over the last two years on d.o.d., v.a. sharing of information technology and information. and regarding line of action two, the department is committed to insuring that all service members especially those with mental health and traumatic brain injuries received consistently excellent care across the entire care continuum. for both psychological health and t.b.i., our focus has been on building and sustaining physical and mental resilience and improving the quality and consistency of prevention and protection and diagnosis and treatment, and recovery and transition programs for both

d.o.d. and v.a. for traumatic brain injury this also includes a significant emphasis on research, to clarify and improve clinical and diagnostic and treatment and rehabilitation technologies and therapies, especially for mild t.b.i. known as concussion but also moderate severe and penetrating traumatic brain injury. while the department has been actively expanding and implements programs on psychological health and t.b.i. we also have been working to evolve and expand the sharing of medical and beneficiary data as directed by line of action four. and this collaboration has insured that information is viewable and accessible and understandable through secure and inoperable information systems and greatly advance the sharing of ben a personnel and health information between the two agencies over the last several years. and details of these efforts have been included in my submitted testimony, and for the record, and i also like to add that recently we have refocused

our efforts to build, to commit to build a virtual life-time electronic record, to insure health and benefit information is available in either system to support the service member that veteran and their families at any time from the point of obsession to burial. the department of defense appreciates the committees strong support and the concern you have shown for their health and well-being. i stand ready for answer your questions. >> thank you. about mr. dims dale. >> good afternoon . and ranking member graham and senator hagan. i want to thank you for inviting the v.a. to participate in the hearing. my name is roger dims dale and i'm pinch-hitting for karen payne and she's the acting assistant secretary for policy and manning. she had a family emergency and was not able to attend. i also, before i -- start with my oral statement, i like to thank the members of the first

panel, i learned a hot by listening to when they had to see, and it is obvious we're -- we have ways to go. we obviously have more emphasis on caring and case management to do. and i would appreciate that my written statement be intered into the record. >> it'll be. >> mr. chairman i want to assure you that the secretary is fully committed to supporting the wounded warriors and veterans, as a sign of that commitment, he has met with the secretary four times to discuss warrior issues. and the cochair at the sock and an oversight committee meeting during the transition. they recently agreed to establish a joint virtual life-time record and the latest acronym is velar and i'll use that term as we continue to the testimony here. as you know the president on april 9th, added support to the

velar and the two isn'ts and announced the establishment of a joint virtual electronic record. the velar will be for all current and future service members and veterans and eligible family members and contain all data to identify them and insure the delivery of care and benefits which they're available. it'll begin when an individual enters the service and will continue throughout the period of time he or she is in the service, and into the veteran status and throughout their life. it'll contain health anded a straightive added. so the idea this'll be one single record and one single virtual electronic record which will track men and women throughout the life-span of their service. and of course d.o.d. has been working for years on this issue and recently has seen progress. as you know, the records are a priority of the administration. and secretary intends to do more than talk about it. he holds the department

accountable. and another important example in which an area that d.o.d. and v.a. have acted together is the disability evaluation system or the d.e.s. pilot. the d.e.s. pilot is a project initially begun in the national capital region to resolve the confusing aspects of the system and to shorten the overall time required to dom meet the process. the pilot is spended for those service members who are being medically separated or retired. the processing time for those currently enrolled in the pilot has been reduced by greater than 50%. our business rule is that service members departing active-duty will receive their v.a. disability benefit check, the month after they leave active-dutyy. and the pilot is currently conducted at 14 sites with plans to expand the enhanced d.e.s. process to another six by august 31st. and d.o.d. and v.a. will submit a report to congress a on the lessoned learned from the project as to the way ahead.

as a result of what we have seen so far, v.a. and d.o.d. would stepped the policies and lessons learned from the pilot program to additional installations. taking this space approach to wider implementation approach to the process will help insure the success, to make sure that we have the right processes in place. v.a. is proud of the success of the jint d.o.d. and v.a. and federal recovery care program. dr. karen heist is here with me to share with you details about the successs of the f.r.c. program. and we also believe that the successes we seen this these joint efforts as well as others i have listed in the written testimony is a result of the structure that allowed us an open dialogue and encouraged focus on results. we have not changed our level of support for the senior oversight committee since it was started in may of 2007 and will continue to do so. as you're aware, the -- the -- the 2009 n.d.a. section 726

requires that both departments write congress on the way ahead or the sock and the jack and we fully intend to work with d.o.d. and while we're pleased with the joint efforts and progress made, there's a good deal more to do. the v.a. is com milted to providing support for the wounded warriors and veterans. as such we believe continued partnership with the d.o.d. is critical. the comment was made earlier in the g.a.o. testimony that working harmoniously is the way of ahead, and we're working harmoniously and d.o.d. and v.a. are happened in hand and certainly there are issues with the take one department as -- as a tack versus the other. and overall the cooperation is great and will continue to be so. thank you for your opportunity to testimony and i look forward to answering questions. >> thank you. and -- general mur lynn. and chairman nelson and senator graham thank you for the opportunity to ept the defense department and transition care

and policy and care coordination this afternoon. and i like to briefly mention a few -- major areas where my office is currently engaged. the report and review is established and up and running. although we encurented problems getting it started we're make going progress. we're in the process of reevaluating the approach no two areas and expect significant modifications to be announced in the near future. the first area pertains to the scope of the review. it is our current intention to review all findings of the physical evaluation board and those fitting and unfitting conditions, along with the ratings assigned to those conditions. and the second is that service specific d.o.d. guidance that conflicts with the v.a.'s schedule for rating disabilities will be disregarded and the conditions and rating will be evaluated only with a vaser d in effect at the time that the initial findings were made. we believe both changes are

consistent with congressional intent and understand making the changes as soon as possible is a matter of great concern to the committee. the recovery care coordination program is up and running, with the initial cad ray of 31 recovery care coordinators or r.c.c.'s deployed to 13 military sites. nie staff is training an additional 100-plus army advocates as r.c.c.'s using the standard curriculum which includes standard tools and comprehensive recovery plan and recovering service members assigned in r.c.c. and the navy and marine corps and air force are assessing how many more r.c.c.'s will be needed to insure the recovering service members are supported. we have issued interim recovery coordination policy and d.o.d. instruction to establish uniform policy and uniform policy for the program implementation and deployment of r.c.c.'s and the defment after 0 recovery plan and ongoing site visits and assessment tolls and customer

satisfaction surveys will allow us to evaluate the program to assess the placement and the additional r.c.c.'s the discussion of the services nibblingt they're on board with the requirements. and the third thing i like to mention is a progress we made regards to the disability evaluation system pilot program. there will be a total of 21 sights participating by june and anticipate starting an evaluation in the near future. and the pilot is due to report to the sock this coming august and it is imperative to note that the disavailability evaluation pilot is not an end all solution but rather a bridge, with the ultimate goal being an integrating d.o.d. and v.a. systems at lodge qual nodes. ultimately it is time for a national dialogue on how america supports its injured. we breakdown more barriers for trust and transparency and shift away from focusing paying entitlements to one of transition and motorcycling the service member a viable member of society. and the secretary of defense put in place a voluntary program

that provides the ability to expedite a member through the disability evaluation system. the expedited process is a benefit for those member that is sustain catastrophic injuries or illnesss from combat operations as defined in the policy. and the establishment of the policy supports the department's belief there must be a special process for those member that is sustain catastrophic disabilities while participates in combat and operations in contrast with those disabled otherwise. we're excited about the program because it allows the early evaluation of full range of benefits and specialty care by the department of veterans affairs. finally in the area of personal pay and financial support, we bring your attention to the concept of care giver compensation. the center for naval analysis is completing a study of war care givers, and mothers spend an average up to a year and longer providing physical and support

to their recovering service members. the final report will be published shortly. based onc.n.a.'s preliminary findings which are released in december, the department for -- proposed legislation for f.y.i. 2010 to provide catastrophically wounded service members with a special monthly compensation for their care givers. the amount was based on a monthly income of a hell health care aid and would continue until the service member transitions to veterans affairs. the bottom line is that america's families turned over their lfed loved ones to us, and returned some of them wounded and ill and injured. the members and their families earned and deserved what we have to of. pledged to continue the work with your staff, the v.a. and department of labor and others to make that happen. thank you for this opportunity and i look forward to your questions. >> admiral timberlake. nelson. senator graham, thank you for

the opportunity to -- to address you on the status of our, by which i mean, d.o.d. and n.b.a. efforts to achieve full operateability by the electronic health care records of both departments by september of this year. let me begin by background on the d.o.d.v.a. interagency program office which had its genesis in the language of 1635 of the national defense authorization act of 200 . and which mandated that the d.o.d. and v.a. achieve fully operable electronic capability by september 2009 and establish the i.p.o. to oversee and coordinate this effort. and april 17th of 200 , the v.a. and d.o.d. officially formed the i.p.o., within the v.a. it was set up to report to the deputy secretary. and it was in d.o.d. the i.p.o. coordinates activities through the defense human resource activity and the office of the

undercan't secretary of defense and personnel and readiness. the i.p.o. receives strategic guideance from the skts of d.o.d. and v.a. as well as from the joint executive council which you heard described earlier and the health executive council for health related data sharing and the benefits executive council for personnel and benefits data sharing. in the early months the i.p.o. was focused on the basics of acquiring office space and equipment and determining appropriate staffing levels and beginning the process of advertising for personnel. today just under half of the government staff was hired, and standard operating procedures are in place. and any formal charter has been signed by the deputy secretary of veterans affairs and the undersecretary of defense for personnel readyness which specifies the scope of the oversight response can'ts and clarifies the relationship of the i.p.o. to the two departments. and the current mission of our

office is to .management oversight of joint actourists to accelerate that exchange of the electronic health care information between the departments. and this capacity, the i.p.o. is responsible for working with the departments on issues like supporting the definition of d.o.d. and v.a. data sharing requirements and insuring that d.o.d. and the schedules are coord fated for the technical execution of the initiatives and aisting -- assisting in funding consideration and obtaining the input and concurrence of the multiple stakeholders. original my, we expected to focus our efforts on the electronic health care records systems and other health care data sharing initiative the between d.o.d. and v.a. however the scope was hair extended at the suggestion of the wounded ill and injured senior oversight committee to include personnel and benefits electronic data sharing as well. and responsibility for development of the requirements and the execution of information

technology solutions still remain with the respective d.o.d. and v.a. organization. and technical execution also remains in the appropriate departmental offices using the department's established statutory and regulatory processes for acquisition and funding and -- management control and information and assurance and other execution actions, which are significantly different in these departments. and the immediate term, the i.p.o. has centered its energies on insuring that by the september of this year, the systems are in place to allow for that full inoperateability of the heck electronic personal health information required for clinical care between the d.o.d. and v.a. the key to that is the adoption of a shared d.o.d. and v.a. understanding of the meaning of the phrase full inoperateability. in our view that phrase is best defined by the people that use those systems day to day to

deliver care. with this in mind, we turn to the d.o.d.v.a. interagency board, referred to the in the future as i.s.a. and it is composed of both agencies. it is headed by the program paroles and the chief patient care officer of the veterans health administration. this group was given responsibility for identifying and prior types and format of the electronic medical information which clinicians need, in order to provide the highest levels of care. in july of 200 , the i i.s.o. delivered these to the health committee and information management and technology working group and the recommendations were subsequently approved at the heck and passs down to our d.o.d. and information technology teams as they developed the tools to put these requirements into operation.

by leveraging these accomplishments many prior accomplishments toward the development of inoperable by directional electronic health records and the i.p.o. and the depps were able to formulate a plan to achieve full operateability for clinical care by the september 2009 target date. and as part of this man, the v.a.'s and d.o.d.'s ability to utilize well known speaker operateability systems like the federal health information exchange has been greatly expanded. at the same time new systems added to the data health data repository to allow more medical data to be transferred between the new departments and the pilot programs such as the b.h.i. imaging project were developed, this pilot is now deployed and operational at a number of major military and v.a. medical centers across the country. today i'm pleased to report i

feel we're on target to achieve full operateability of electronic health records for the level of clinical care, by september of 2009 as defined by the i.s.e.p. it is not static as new systems for capturing and arkifing patient data are developed we need to make sure that those systems are built n-such a way that they allow the data to be fully shared between d.o.d. and v.a. and authorized private sector provides such as the tri-care network and the contract care network. and as i previously mentioned on april 9th, 2009 the president munsed a new vision for how this will be achieved. centering on the development of a virtual life-time electronic record which -- which, mr. dims dale has already aalluded to. this virtual record will leverage investments already made in the existing dfmentdepfment o.d. and v.a. electronic records systems as well as industry best practices

to provide aa system that will network with new and legacy application. right now we believe it'll be based on be a common services approach that focuses on the development of standardized software applications to provide links between health care and benefit databases across the two dth departments. and manning is still in the early stages, but the way ahead hooks promising. and i personally would look forward to briefing you on the progress, our progress on meeting the president's new initiative in the future. and thank you, that concludes my -- my statement. i look forward to you're questions. >> thank you. and dr. guys? >> good afternoon, chairman nelson and raping member graham and senator hagan. lieutenant colonel gattson and revis and the doctors and hute, your strengths and perseverance is a standard for all of us. and 16 months ago, the federal recovery program was made to

traci business coordination problems across two large complex systems of care and benefits. and the federal recovery coordination program is a joint program of the d.o.d. and v.a. with the v.a. serving ased a straightive home. it is designed to provide oversight and coordination for very seriously or catastrophically wounded or ill or injured service members veterans and their families. to do so the federal recovery coordinator or f.r.c. develops a customized a individual recovery plan that is used to monitor and track the service benefits and resources needed to accomplish the identified goals. the goals are those of of the service member or veteran with input from their family or care giver and members of the team. the number and types of goals are related to the medical problems, the stage of recovery and the holistic needs of the family. and -- and clients. and developing goals is a

methodical process that begins with evaluation. f.r.c.'s develop the records and discuss specific challenges with the health care providers and case managers this prepares for a structured dialogue with the client in developing the plan. the f.r.c. and case manager determine responsibility and the timeline for implements the steps necessary to reach a goal. the f.r.c. monitors progress with the case manager and client providing support and additional resources to both you believe the goal is reached. and f.r.c.s frequent my organize meetings with providers and case managers and client tots make sure objectives and expectations are clear. ed plan and the goals change as the client progresses through recovery and rehabilitation and reintegration, the f.r.c. provides a single consistent point of coordination throughout this progression. ask theability for the man rests with the f.r.c. and today, 14 f.r.c.'s are

located at six military treatment facilities and two v.a. medical centers. and all have a clinical background with most being nurses or social workers. one is a vision rehabilitation specialist. and all have prior experience in either the military or v.a. health care systems. and collectively they have 200 years of professional experience. all are masters level and many have advances practice degrees. all have specialized knowledge in one or more clinical areas and they frequent my consult i've other bringing their collective knowledge and experience to bear for their clients. and currently, 250 -- 257 clients are enrolled in the program. 75% of these are still active-dutyy. and generally the clients are very seriously or catastrophically ill or nurnled and require a -- a complex array of specialists and multiple interfacility transfers, and heng they rehabilitation. individuals are referred to the program or identified by f.r.c.'s from daily census lists

and during attendance, especially team care meetings and down range video conferences. on the back of our newly designed brochures is the toll-free number to get additional information about the programs. a description is on the national resource directory website and the v.a.'s website. and the program has a strategy to reach out to those who went through the system prior to its inception and who might still benefit from a recovery plan and care coordination. care coordination improves service integration among different delivery systems andeeses transition from one system of care to another. it is not a band-aid or indication of failing systems. instead, it is another step in the evolution toward a fuely integrated system where care and benefits are organized around the multiple needs of individuals, across the care continuum. and f.r.c.'s in keeping with this concept coordinate the delivery of services and resources for service members and veterans and their familys

in accordance with the goals identified in the plan. they work with military services, r.c.c.'s and d.b.a. and other governmental resources including state and local agencies as well as the private sector. for those service members and veterans not enrolled in the program there are a variety of other programs services and resources designed to meet their needs through department of defense and v.a. i appreciate your input and collaboration as the program ma chures and i particularly appreciate your support and i look forward to your questions. thank you. >> thank you. you were all here and you heard my comments about stool piping and -- and the silo effect of agencies. and based on everything, that you have heard thus far, the g.a.o. report -- are you of the. i, are you all of the opinion that -- that we're breaking that down here so that we can have a

fully integrated system, to -- to -- toe smooth the transi go and have it -- it for every step along the way including every aspect of the service members life as well as his or her families. is that fair to say that -- that what might have been there in the past is not there, today. >> senator nelson, i think we have to be constantly vigilant. >> of course. >> because of the nature of organizations. and i do think that in the last two years watching the collaboration between d.o.d. and v.a. at the highest level not the patient care level has been extraordinary and i think one of the indications of that is the development of the federal recovery coordinator where, where -- the sock decided they wanted there to be one definitive person and that person was decided that would bed a straightively done by the department of vet answer afaired. and i think that -- at our organizational high level, the

location of the offices, the people that we have put in place and in an acting capacity and building relationships continuing to bmed relationships with the department of veterans affairs office. and going forward, we not only have -- have sock issues, that we work together on but also jeck issues which are the issues that cover all of the matters between department of defense and department of veterans affairs. we need to strengthen those relationships and department of defense is leaning forward to do that. and avoid having the kind of silos that we had in the past. as i said my opening remarks, we never had a senior executive dedicated to breaking down the silos before in terms of collaboration with v.a. and now we will. i'm hopeful for that. >> that generally shared? >> sir, i like to add -- my comments, it is not consume piia. nothing is but we talk daily. we sit side by side and work

daily so the silos are breaking down. and -- but, there's a lot of work to continue. but, i want to show you that -- that it is an ongoing effort and we're doing everything we can to move the ball in the right direction. >> are you in a position -- where if you run into a question of legal authorities, that -- that you could bring back to us any kind of statutory change that play be necessary to further break it down or establish this integrated system. >> i believe so, sir. >> and that generally fair? >> and mr. chairman, if i might, even, to bring it down to a lower level, from what -- what miss mcginn was talking about, we recently invited the medical director of the richmond poly trauma unit to go over on a c-17 and go and look at the operation there. and chab rate with the d.o.d. physicians at the receiving point from the a.o.r., and then come back in that operation.

we're going to expand that program to the other v.a. poly trauma units. we're blending those forces together which will help out and ease the acceptance of patients as they come back. yesterday at the sock that was mentioned earlier in reviewing the way ahead for the d.e.s. system if the larger look at it, we saw both deputy secretaries really i think in quite agreement and accord which set a tone if the rest of the organization. so -- as roger said, we have offices together in the -- in the hoffman buildings down in the south end of leakstra and we're working together with the staff's and mixing them and we're making great progress on that. >> and you mentioned on the federal recovery coordination program, that -- that the decision was made as to which agency would probably be best -- in the best position to administer this. are you planing -- philippining other areas where assigning one of the agencies -- the

responsibility makes more sense than both agencies trying to coordinate work together on it. some other areas. >> sir, since you -- you, karen and dr. guise and i. not karen dr. guise & have worked closely and commiserated on the two bits of law. one that established the f.r.c.'s and later on the n.d.a. that established the r.c.c.'s is a parallel program. and the question is, as we work through this since they're so parallel, why not bring them both together? i think prorblee the initial intent was to have one program cover all and not just the f.r.c.'s for the ones that are the most seriously injured and destined to department from the department of defense and move into the v.a., but also the category two, the middle level that -- that really sort of up in the air, where they will progress medically and return to duty and then depart. i think there's a hot of questions there, that was the

number one priority of the number one recommendation of the commission, it is one i think we need to -- e we are making progress in that area and it is going to be significant to the success of the recovery and reintegration of our soldier and sail es and airmen and marines. dr. guise? >> i disagree with him. >> other comment that is you play want to make about this progress? >> sir, i think that -- the v.a. has long been a source of expertise for p.t.s.d. and for severe traumatic brain injuries within the federal government. and -- the d.o.d. has learned from its expertise and has been partnering with them, on a whole variety of -- of protocols and standards and guidelines. and -- we, believe so strongly that when we set up or center of excellence within the department of defense we made our deputy

for that center a v.a. employee who retains their employment with the v.a. to insure close integration of the programs of care for both d.o.d. and v.a. through that center of excellence. >> well, if the military can have joint commands, it would seem the agencies can find a way to do some of this joint my as well, recognizing how -- how important it is, but also, how how common it can be to -- to have both agencies having similar -- responsibilities, because of the needs. so -- sthorgranl. >> thank you. it is a very informative hearing, i think and to all that attended, thank you, and thank the committee and appreciate your time. i think we're making progress. i guess from the 30,000-foot view of things, number one, you get injured and i want to make sure that you get a fair evaluation as to whether or not you're fit for duty, right general? first thing is can this service

member admiral return back to service? and agree with that? >> absolutely. >> is that a kind of a heap and dream that most people are injured. >> most people, that are injured the different hospitals and patients that i visited with, that's their ultimate objective. and the request e is that was brought up in the first panel is that in their best interests, sure. which is one that goes and even in the expedited process we made sure there was a provision that even though, if they're catastrophically wounded hit that category, and we expedite the d.e.s. process and they heave the service, if they do retain a level that they can come back, that we allow for that provision to petition to come back in. >> the only reason i mention it, is the colonel gattisons of the world, no other time someone like him would be able to serve. one thing you need to do is have a system that capture people like him but realize these young men and women will move on to civilian life and all can't be integrated back into the military. one, don't lose sight of that.

one goal is to make sure the gattisons of the world and others have a chance to continue to serve. once the decision has been made that you're not going to be able to go to -- stay on active-dutyy, i think that the goal here, between the two of y'all is the same is that -- when you leave d.o.d., i just want to make sure that when you go into the v.a. system, that whatever rehabilitative services you had as an active-dutyy member, you're not lost, because your status changes and here's the real problem. most of the services provided by very centers that are exceptional. and the guard member or the reservist or the person being discharged play go back to a home area that is not nearly as robust as walter reed provides. that's what dr. no, sir is trying to tell us. and if you go pack to alan dale, south carolina, and medical retirement and guard, and

there's going to be limitations as to the services. what i want to do is make sure that whatever it is -- whatever is available, that is available as soon as possible and we think outside the box but the goal is to reintegrate people into society and to come up with, i don't know if it is a voucher man, quoon exactly what it is but the moment you hit medical retirement, and the moment you go back into the -- into the civilian community or guard member or reservist or medical activity -- active-duty person. we want you to understand there's limitations. there's areas of improvement there. the second problem is -- general you were talking about a report coming out in december. how the nation -- can help care providers family members who are going to provide care income wise. that's coming out in december, is that right? >> the preliminary study that c.m.a. did. the preliminary results came out in december. the final results will come out

shortly. >> and very shortly. and the final results will suggest to the congress that we create a revenue stream greater than we have today. >> yes, sir. what we're looking at is -- and there's proposed legislation coming forward, for compensation for care givers. and that will provide for a benefit for care givers, equal and approximate to what a care giver commercially would be earning. >> that would last for how long? >> as long asee -- as long as the individual required. >> i think that is a great idea because -- you know, we focus on the wupeded warrior and their family member and they have to drop most of their hopes and dreements. that's the way it is and we want to help them where we can. and finally, dr., mr. dims tale, you were talking about standardized definitions. and you know, mental health services available through the department of defense. and it should be the same as -- as the veteran's administration when somebody falls into the programs.

whatever rehabilitative services, whatever definitions we have, are we moving down the road to getting standardization? >> yes, sir but it is not easy. >> i know it would be hard. >> there would be like -- this is -- this is anecdotal. it was like 45 definitions we were working on and i think we got agreement on about 35 out of the 45. and there are policies as far as benefits are concerned based on the definitions. and we are continuing to wicker this thing down. but we have got a way to go. >> and the category of -- of somebody who is medically retired not fit for duty, that -- that to me is the first evaluation to make. once that happens, what is the problem after that? >> there's -- i'll give you an example, when you asked the question, i was writing notes to try to get answer and -- and i give you an example, like the definition of catastrophically injured. >> right. >> entitles people to different

things. >> right. >> so if we say. >> based on what organization you're in. d.o.d. versus v.a. as far as the determination of what is catastrophic. >> right. >> so joe or jane get injured and we call them catastrophically injured. and one agency play say one thing and another play say another and what the individual gets based on the definitional acceptance -- >> is there differences within the services, or is it just v.a.d.o.d. >> i cannot answer that, sir. >> i would have to get back. that's the definitional problem. >> yes, sir. >> anybody want to speak up. >> my sense is that it is a difference between d.o.d. and the v.a. and the authorization and the way that the defense health program is set out and benefits and whether we have prime and basic and different other kinds -- >> you're on to the problem. kind of keep us informed, the more standardization, the easier it is for the case manager and

troops and family get through the thing. and like senator nelson said, we're joined everywhere else and it was hard. i never thought i would be in an office. i went, did reserve duty in iraq and there's a coast guard guy and what the hell you doing here? we had people from everywhere. . .

s. buckley jr.. >> up next on c-span, the ceo of sesame workshops on keeping sesame street relevant to

children after 40 years on the air. this is about an hour. >> good afternoon. welcome to the lunch impetus i am president -- welcome to the lunch. i and the president. where the world's leading professional organization for journalists. we are committed to a future of journalism. we foster a free press worldwide. for more in formation, please visit our web site greta: . . .

>> and not necessarily from the working press. i would now like to introduce our table guests, and stand briefly when your names are called. from the right, the washington bureau chief. ed lewis, strategic communications for toyota in north america. jerry szerimski, past president of the national press club. dr. wilson of the school for communication in journalism at the university of southern california, and chairman of the board for the corporation for

public broadcasting. cheryl hampton, director of recruiting at national public radio. patricia harrison, president and ceo of the corporation for public broadcasting. skipping over the podium, angela from bloomberg news and its share of the national press club speaker committee -- speaker's committee. an investigative reporter for bloomberg news, and the member that organized today's lunch. thank you, allison. . kroger, -- paula korger, president and ceo. the senior associate for the [unintelligible] and finally, max, the associate producer of the -- a producer for the associated press. [applause]

most of you are already familiar with our long-term france, big bird, oscar the grouch, and grover from the childhood staples sesame street. those furry and feathery fellows have been coming into our homes and sesame street debut. behind all of our muppet compatriots, chief executive -- it produces sesame street. the public television's favorite is celebrating its fortieth anniversary this year. sesame workshop's mission is to create innovative, engaging, and educational content for everybody. the offer games and entertainment on cell phones and mobile video games. they have also brought into the global mission, including groundbreaking productions in south africa, india, northern

ireland, and egypt. they also founded the 24 hour cable channel in the united states. they will or into the show over the next two years towards lessons. in the past, muppets have taken on issues such as childhood obesity, a military deployment, and economic insecurity. sesame street's characters generate a major market for toys. they entered into a 10-year deal with hasbro inc.. elmo, cookie monster, and grover -- for the last 10 years, another company that had the

rights to those characters will have to look elsewhere. he was managing director of media international, a multimedia publishing company based in bangkok. asia, inc., asisa tim -- asia times, and several trade publications. he was counsel to the u.s. senate judiciary and government affairs committee and worked in the california state legislature. he will discuss the challenges of using new and ever changing media to keep sesame street in step with today's and children. please join me in welcoming gary knell. [applause]

>> thank you very much, donna. it is an honor to be here. how to start by welcoming everyone and wishing you a happy holiday. today's todd has been brought to you by the letter n and the no. 6, 6 lessons of like to discuss with you today. >> i have dresses down here. anybody want dresses? >> what are you doing here? >> i want to show off my line of dresses of course. i think i have your size. >> i don't think so. >> i have a fetching soak a number with an empire waist if your interested. >> i can assure you i am not interested.

>> what about a spicy little cocktail dress with a letter provocative -- >> what makes you think any of these people want to hear any of this right now? >> is this not the national dress club? >> is the national press club. >> some nobody is interested? [laughter] >> i don't think so, grover. i am in the middle of a speech. >> i love speeches. perhaps i can help you. is it about the industrial revolution? >> not about the industrial revolution. >> good, because i don't know anything about the industrial revolution. is it a speech about getting better abs in 30 days? >> no. that is too bad.

as you can see, i know a lot about rock hard abs. check out my one-pec. go ahead. >> it is really nice. but it has nothing to do with what i am talking about, the way that new technology is able to teach kids. >> teaching kids using new technology? this is your lucky day. i know a lot about new technology. >> are you sure? >> do you see that edge right there? i cut right through it. because i am on the cutting edge of new technologies. >> ok. i didn't know that. >> it is true. i can help teach the children of

the world using my new technology, using iphone apps. >> that is terrific. there are a lot that can teach kids -- >> not apps. i am talking about the iphone naps. simply, you just take a nap with your iphone there next to your head, and all the information will import into your sleepy brain. >> i don't think that that -- >> it will lower -- work like gangbusters. it is for the children. come on. >> let's move on, grover.

>> tweets. >> ok, twitter. >> no, tweets. have you ever heard an american goldfinch say tweet, tweet? she is tweeting the theory of quantum mechanics. but if you do not speak bird, you probably didn't get it. >> we should probably move on. there are great thinkers in the audience. >> where? are you sure is this group? >> absolutely. >> maybe they can help me set up my wifi. >> not now. >> you have the speech to do. if anybody needs me, use the

blueberries. >> blackberries? >> no, blueberries are my favorite tree. so long. [applause] >> you think you have a tough job. i have to demonstrate the party time in front of audiences. i wanted to acknowledge a couple of people, my good friend pat harrison and pull from pbs. -- paul from pbs. you can blame him if you hear anything you don't like.

there are lessons to take away that i think we should think about. about. @@@@@@@ @

the jingle from my childhood, we can teach letters and numbers. we can prepare them for school and build a culture of learning. they got together the harvard graduate school of education, a bunch of tv producers that know nothing about education. they show up with a green sock puppet that they thought was a member of the underground. his name was jim henson. they threw them all in a room, and that can sesame street. it was rejected by cbs, abc,

nbc, and even pbs at first. it was so out of the box and revolutionary that it was even barred in mississippi because it showed an integrated cast that was getting along. it was the first show that had hispanics and african-americans and asian-americans and tall yellow canaries all living on the street together in harmony. this was really revolutionary television. today, 40 years later, we have more enemies than any show in television history. we have expanded to 140 countries around the world. we just launched our fortieth season on pbs. a remarkable partnership that is now in its fifth decade. we have been able to teach generations of children growing

up to be parents themselves through the muppets and sesame street. we have been able to connect parents and kids around to learning. that is why we put things on a show like the environmental segment, and desperate house plants. and this year, a spoof on mad men, juxtaposed against sad men, happy men, and angry men. and my friend, the head of nasa that was doing experiments with worms going up into space. we have got to get slimy the world of the next mission -- the worm on the next mission. tony bennett sank slime me to the moon -- slimy to the moon.

it is all about using media to get children to reach their highest potential. and maybe to create something out of the media that was hugely criticized. and our founders saw possibilities where it was other than looking at the negative side. first person shooter games and mindless misogynist virtual worlds can bring valuable time from other worldly pursuits like pursuing literacy and math medic abilities. we can turn the situation around starting today if we study the history of a new form of public media. i want to take you on that short history and talk about a few of

those lessons. lesson one, education and popular success can mix. it has become an educational model. this requires animation, and celebrities, pop culture relevance. it is built on an underappreciated preface that media can be powerful and an intentional tool. we have stayed true to our cause with strict licensing standards as we go about these things. we have pledged not to market to children. listen to is recognizing the value of research and development -- lesson two is recognizing the value of research and development.

we stuck to a research plan, and we call this our forty first experimental season. we study the key learning demand s on pre-schoolers to teach us how to appraoch tough-to- teach topics. we have talked on social relations. we'll talk about a hundred and 20 countries involved in it -- these are amazing projects. it is having an hiv positive muppet in south america to deal with the children that are stigmatized by their fellow children. this is a way of teaching kids through will modeling and

television that you can be friends with someone and play with them, not necessarily get sick. it breaks the culture of silence around aids in a country like south africa. we have been working with palestinians. that to do a press conference with the palestinian prime minister in november. he opened up a new studio for our palestinian version of the show in which we're promoting role models for young boys, so they have all models other than rock-throwing older kids. they can become a teacher, a doctor, or other role models to look up to. in egypt, a focus on girls' education or the female population is largely illiterate.

they have become a children's store in egypt. they will tell you. there of 150 million children under the age of 6, think about that. these kids are now being able to benefit from teh hindi show produced in delhi. these are local puppeteers, local educators, local musicians, local educators. it has had a huge effect on these populations. it is supported by a the u.s. agency -- able to leverage private sector support. in south africa, we were able to bring in insurance companies, fully fudnign the -- funding the project.

the third lesson is used during -- using a culturally iconic appeal. as media has gotten much more competitive, we have had to really target populations. we tackled childhood obesity. we made cookie monster a roel model, -- role model. cookies are sometimes food. we were joked about on "saturday night live." people have said, what have you done the cookie monster? he is the veggie monster. he still loves cookies. but there is a mom in silver spring that can have a conversation with her child that even cook a monster doesn't keep cookies all the time.

-- eat cookies all the time. you can influence children through their heroes. we were able to do some amazing work over economic insecurity. what do you tell your kids when you lose your job? or when you have to move in with grandma? we brought for real-life families -- four real-life families. we were able to highlight these families and tools, creating enormous optimism and an ability to tell people you will be able to get through this. we will spread -- we worked with military families, where we really came into this project trying to do something to the

rigid with the families and troops. i got into this issue because i read an article in the new york times that a family of soldiers -- they were being kicked out, and i was so enraged. the staff came together and built an incredible project. it is about talking to your kids, listening to them, and connecting from a distance. it has had enormous impact on military families. there are several -- you do not hear about them. there has been a new study that came out just a day or so ago talking about older kids from 8- 18 suffering real setbacks in

terms of real growth, the largest deployment since world war two. we talk about coming home with an injury, bringing in real soldiers that have had prosthetics. these people were real heroes. they're creating an informal and their family household as well. we are pleased wekaty couric -- that katie couric will host the third, the grieving process. and as you know, she lost her husband that a young age. -- at a young age. we are so thrilled to have her

as part of this. finally, we did a project with the uso tour, dozens of military bases to bring joy and hope to these kids. they get to the difficult times that they're facing. these are examples of how to use the pop culture icons to bring change to target specific populations. media convergence has arrived -- it is the first year where viewers will access sesame street content through other platforms then broadcast television. sesame street now has a broad digital distribution. we start with pbs. it is an enormous partner, and they have been used supporters of the work for 40 years. we have streamed to hulu,

youtube, cell phnes, a -- cell phones, and sesame street's website, all catering to kids between two and six to deal with parents. that is really leading to lesson six, innovate or melt away. they had a great quote. if you don't liek change, you like irrelevance even less. tv, we have teaken the tv show and looked at it as a block. through a great partnership, we

were able to create block of shows that we can cut into three or four pieces. they can watch a new cgi format, elmo's@@@@@@@ @ 'i@ @ @ @ @ @ @

before cell phones, ipod's, broadband. this is the world they are coming into. more and more parents are putting their under two-year- old's in front of electronic media. it is not a good idea to do. they move into the parent in world, and whether we like it or not, we're all facing this in general as dumb. -- in generalism.

media convergence has arrived, big time. we have to use these applications, the blackberry, the mobile phones as teaching tools. and not simply as empty vessels that really don't add to the nation's value. that is why we are constantly looking ahead. i bet you don't know that last year's sesame street published 120 books and sold over 20 million copies. we're launching the new e-books program. literacy has been a big focus of what we do. you can visit electronic versions of books -- narrated by

grover, others are special flip books. they can use whatever station. there are several trends, and i will close with this. we talked about digital natives. it may be mobile kids. they start at age 3, and supermarket checkout lines. that is why we created these video broadcast -- podcast and iphone apps. our friends at the department of education tells you it exists --

huge numbers of words that kids -- so-called professional households. let's movies to go -- use these technologies. they can create their own magic on the go. wherever i may be. kids do not understand the concept of spongebob is not on right now. it doesn't make sense. it's always on. we launched our first iphone app, grov'ers nu -- grover's number app. players help grover catcha nd coun -- catch and count numbers to move the tray.

he counts the items with you. we continue to look at other ways, and we work with the department of education and cpb on a cell-phone study where mom's agreed they would take a mobile phone as long as they got a call from maria each day, where she calls and talks about a specific later. within one month, 80% of these children stuck to the program and learned the alphabet. it is a little crude with nokia's research center. it connects bramah and florida

is a facilitator reading a book through videoconference, and we're hoping -- that is another example of what we can do. we're focusing on the neva their kids. there are many big cable networks, but a lack of educational programming other than where pbs is. fourth grade literacy rates are directly tied to high school graduation, the greatest indicator of poverty. that is why we watched -- launched "the electric company" that features celebrities and others promoting literacy.

[unintelligible] our director is here this afternoon. it is challenging the industry in new ways. the google headquarters brought together news corp., netflix, and others to introduce the center prizes for innovation. it is aimed at of entrepreneurs to promote science, technology, engineering, and math programs. it is a public-private partnership with the white house. what will happen in the next decade? we will see a distinction between formal and informal education as kids demand a new tech savvy learning institution. we need to emerge from

traditional school settings that have been stuck for far too long. there is a new model for education that will be revealed next year, we're calling it seseame -- sesame 2.0 to develop a modern preschool of tomorrow, if you will. and just blocks down pennsylvania avenue, leaders are currently debating health care and environment that has all too often neglected the needs of our most precious asset, our children. generations have benefited from a simple elegance social invention called sesame street that is still progressing in a tough economic environment. we can and we must now innovate for new digital frontiers. if we do not, i fear that our

children will not be able to compete or cooperate in the complex global age. through global work, we will continue to use the longest streak in the world to challenge conflicts, promote health outcomes, and address the lack of basic education for some many. i hope you'll join us on that journey. thank you so much. [applause] >> we have all sorts of questions for you. we will start with -- sesame street has one of the longest records of so-called educational television and dead children? the u. have affirmative research that shows that watching the show or playing the games helps prepare kids for school? >> yes, next question. [laughter]

actually, sesame street is the most research program in the history of television, i can assure you. a lot of dissertations have been done. there are a couple of in the studies that have been done from the university of kansas that did a longitudinal study several years ago and which attract kids from preschool the high-school and saw the kids to were exposed to the show on a regular basis and that doing much better and academic performance versus those that did not. there is callous research out there that you can access on the web site and other places you can go will sesame street research -- google sesame street research. >> what can we expect to see on the show, and can this type of initiative actually change attitudes of students about math and science? >> the answer to the latter is, we think so.

we will be able to use the power of the muppets to really promote simple lessons for early math. for instance, looking at shapes. trunnels, rectangles, numbers, measurements, these sorts of things. the next season of sesame street is in production and will be on next year and will focus on the scientific method, believe it or not, experiment, findings, etc. we will be able to focus the nation on science and math, a program called "math is everywhere." it will be in many states in the mid atlantic especially, focusing on building mass skills.

-- math skills. and finally, president obama talked about us as one of the leaders in this, and "the n.y. times" -- we had all of these incredible scientists that have done many things. the only picture leading the science effort for the united states of america was elmo. we take that in pride. >> one of the criticisms of people entering adulthood is that they have a sense of entitlement. they say this comes from the "everyone is a winner" message of sesame street. you think they are inaccurate or displaced -- misplaced? >> you are special. [laughter]

>> i think so. >> sesame street i do not think has always just been about that. in fact, unlike most children's programs has been a window into the real world. that is why we have grudges. it is about teaching kids that not everybody is happy every day. you have grudge people in your neighborhood. -- grungy -- grungy -- grouchy people in your neighborhood. we are different, but we're the same. it is a little different than everybody is special, and everybody is great. we want to build self-esteem to give them confidence to go forward. you need that base in reality, and i think that sesame street is a good reality check. there is a lot about race

relations in the early days that were really cutting edge back then. but they were a real picture of what life was like in 1971. don't forget, we should go back and look at some of these things. >> with increased competition from disney, viacom, and other companies looking at the children's market, how do you maintain the brand? >> that is a really good question. there were a couple of preschool shows in 1988. sesame street, and mr. rogers neighborhood. at last check, there were 56 preschool shows on television. 56. six competing networks. how do you stand out? what we have tried to do is to or three things, focusing on

targeted families to keep relevance. when we're pushing a program like healthy habits for life and we're working with friends,@@@@r

difference. >> speaking of international work, how do you ensure brand consistency while thinking globally? >> legally, we maintain the copyright. we all the programs. -- we own the programs. it is important that we don't lose quality or have partners that go way off. do we ever have a partner that does something that is antithetical to the sesame street mission? the answer is no, because we pretty much vet partners and willing to work with us. -- unwilling to work with us.

they get the message of sesame street. we have been able to maintain equality with them, trading the writers, training the puppeteers, bringing them to be york to be trained by our staff so that when they go back, they can create something quite amazing. they have been able to maintain -- i am really proud of the quality. >> you recently announced that after 15 years of having sesame street toys manufactured by mattll -- mattell and fisher price, you switched to hasbro. why? >> changes good. -- change is good. we are excited and engaging in a new partnership with hasbro.

it is a very forward thinking company with a dynamic ceo who has a real vision for bringing it to children's lives. we're hoping we can expand the sesame street toy, and board games like monopoly and the other board games. that is experienced throughout the year. it is focused -- less focus on the fourth quarter and more focused on the year-round business that we can see out there. i would say, because his question does always come out, why do we need support from different agencies to do things.

other big partners of ours, it really goes to pay for the royalties we get. we do not manage these businesses. they pay for the research and production that we are able to really presented pbs -- present to pbs and other partners at a fraction of the cost it would otherwise be. we're really an example of the public-private partnership. having grown up as a 10-year partner growing forward is the real foundation for growth for the next decade. >> are you risking confusing customers with a new brand? >> no. you know, there will be elmo, cookie monster, the muppets -- the brand isn't changing, just

the folksw e -- folks we partner with. we get about 2/3 of our in come from so-called entrepreneurial activities. these include books, home videos, international program distribution. it is not all about toys. but we are able to generate about 2/3 of our annual budget, which gives us a solid foundation of resources. things like military families in the next season of sesame street. >> deal expect consumers will notice any changes in the toys? -- do you expects consumers will notice any changes in the toys?

>> is mattell in the room? [laughter] i am a big fan of a lot of the folks there. it was not so much about them as it was a new vision for partnership. i hope that you will see an innovation in educational toys which is something that we will get a little more into as we explore partnerships with hasbro going forward t push -- to push the limits of toy activity and play. >> how will you ensure that items from hasbro meet or exceed toy safety standards? >> we have very strict guidelines are around toy safety.

those things that happened a couple of years ago, where the first ones on capitol hill testifying on cracking down on lead and other poisons that were found in some of the chinese factories. hasbro has been a leader in this, and we have served on a toy industry panel. this mixture our toys are safe and appropriate going forward. and that worker conditions and factories are appropriate as well. that is part of what we put into our contracts. sometimes contrast it violated. not often. if they are violated, they will lose the rights to the franchise. >> last hasbro question. does it extend to their children's tv network? >> no.

>> good, ok. dora the explorer has been tweaked to appeal the kids older than her target audience. does sesame street ever tried to appeal the older kids? >> college students. [laughter] hey. i dare anyone to not find soembody -- somebody wearing an elmo t-shirt. that shows you the power across generations that this franchise has unlike a lot of other children's programs that we won't mention. we think that sesame street is kind of and that the sweet spot, really two-five year olds. their tastes are getting more sophisticated a younger ages because they are exposed to so much more content at a younger

age. we are seeing the show skewing a bit younger than it did originally, but there are a lot of four and five year-old singing aloud -- year olds hanging around. the average visit time is 25 minutes on our web site. that is a long time. everyone is coming on for five minutes, staying for 50. internationally, it is a little older, 4-7 year olds. and a lot of adults watch the show internationally as well. >> speaking of adults, as anyone thinking of starting ac sesame street for adults that can't keep up with new technology? >> jim henson did an office

management program hosted by john cleese, which was one of the funniest things i had ever seen. we believe that the show is actually built for adults. i would challenge those of you that are up at 7:00 in the morning to tune in to sesame street, and i think he will have a great time watching this. seeing adam sandler, feist, all of these great artists that come ont ht eh show -- on the show. nora jones was singing, they don't know these -- kids don't know these people. they also criticized dan rather not, walter cranky, diane

sour, and pox news. it became a thing. we got blogs and letters. we went on bill o'reilly's show. he did a great job, and bill was good about the whole thing. >> how do we get grover comeback? >> maybe he is somewhere. >> asked rover a question. >> do you feel 40? >> let me see. gary, can you touch my back? does that feel 42 you? -- forty to you?

i am older than a breadbox, but young enough to live at home with my mommy. >> ok. sara price who is five wants to know how long it will be on tv. >> we plan to be around for another 40 years. >> that is good year. -- tohear. -- to hear. >> were you worried? >> not at all, but it is nice to hear from the big cheese himself. keep me employed, i will keep going to the gym. >> one of your fans wants to know how much food as cookie monster eat? >> it is not just to heat. -- food he eats.

he doesn't eat cookies just a -- just eat cookies anymore. he eats everything. >> he ate the lifetime achievement emmy on prime-time television. >> quite costly, too. it came out of his paycheck. >> are all the characters monsters? >> no, no, no. sesame street has lots of different monsters and people and creatures. i am a monster, yes. >> how can you tell. >> monsters are for real over -- furry all over. robin williams was mistaken for a monster when he came on the show. [laughter] >> bert and ernie were the

original breakout stars. now it has been elmo, elmo, elmo. >> tell me about it. >> when will people finally recognize the true genius of grover? dodge thank you for that question. maybe starting today. >> you had a visit from first lady michelle obama? what were your impressions of her? >> she is a lovely lady. and very tall. i think even big bird had to look up to her. >> she did say that that was the coolest thing they had done since they moved into the white house. >> would you think the politicians here in washington can learn from sesame street? [applause] -- [laughter] >> that is all the questions i

have time for today. thank you very much. goodbye, everybody. [applause] >> we are actually almost out of time. he has excellent timing. let me remind members of our future speakers. on december 14, karen mills, the administrator of the u.s. small business administration will discuss their efforts to boost the small business sector to drive economic recovery. she will not be bringing any for a monsters that we know of. on december 15, the hon. the army, chairman of freedom works will discuss the future of the republican party and the need to return to their roots of fiscal conservatism. on december 21, francis collins in the, the director of the nih will discuss medical research and new horizons for human health. i like to present both of our

guests with a traditional and must coveted npc mug. [applause] >> grover, did you get this? >> he does not seem to havethu thumbs, so i will give this to you. i have two for you. how often do you get upstaged by bob betz, and who is your favorite muppet? >> the answer is often, and grover. >> good answer. >> thank you. i have been abused by moppets around the world. it is a wonderful job, and i hope we can continue to work with great colleagues to do great things for kids. [applause]

>> i would like to thank all of you for coming today, especially the young folks an audience that gave us such terrific questions for grover. i like to thank the staff members, melinda cook, pat nelson, and joanne for organizing the luncheon. the video archive is provided by the national press club's broadcast operations center. we are available for download onitunes and our -- 9oon itunes and our website. you can also email us at archives@press.org. go to www.press.org, and we are adjourned. [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

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[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> is the training ground or level of experience different if i'm flying from scottsbluff to laramy than to san diego? >> no. once qualified on the airplane, some routes actually require, for example, high altitude airports and foreign countries that have unusual approach procedures might need some special training but other than that you're allowed to operate the aircraft anywhere in the system. >> i'm going to pass by salary.

although that worries me. i want to say i think somebody who is making that kind of salary, i don't know how they are supporting their family, i don't want to get into the middle of that, i want to get to equipment. when i was governor, we had a state plane and i'll never forget the first day we pilot -- the pilot turned back and said i'm turning on the de-icing. i kind of looked out at the wing and you could see some ice building up and then i saw this balloon expand and i thought to myself, wow, that is it? tell me about this buffalo flight and the kind of equipment that they were using and i just want your honest assessment about how good that equipment is in a flight pattern that is going to deal with icing issues, i would think on a regular basis. >> that airplane, we are -- we

just issued a very, very exhaustive icing rule, which is replacing -- again, recognizing the time it takes to put one of these rules out, we made emergency action, direct is to make people and specific pieces of equipment follow new criteria for how the equipment worked and the instruction and how the recognition to the pilot when they were beginning to ice performs those are very important steps. that airplane was completely compliant. while this investigation is not complete, i don't believe that it is going to find -- i don't want to prejudice the ntsb investigation. i'm not going to comment on that. the causal factor is failure to recognize a fundamental stall warning and improper response to a basic warning that the crew had been well trained for and

simply didn't follow procedures. >> thank you. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman and thank you, mr. babbit for being here. i always try to attend these when you're here. first, i want to do a couple of comments on alaska issues which obviously i view this hearing not only update on fatigue and others but a general update on your survival for six months so far and the first one is in alaska, you know flight service stations are not contracted out. we're the only one s that arenot contracted out. all the rest are. we appreciate that. we think they do a great job. our concern and my concern is that there are vacancies occurring. the training is not occurring to replace those people and what i'm starting to hear is that folks are concerned it is basically f.a.a. has let t peter

out so they can have an excuse to contract out. that concerns me. i can only tell you from a personal experience, someone who has to fly a lot to alaska. most recently on a small eight-seater coming out of a small town into anchorage international. volcanic ash closed it down for a period of time. we were circling multiple times because the fog was so thick. i had never seen and i was born and raised here. the stations were giving us the right information and we were also getting a little concerned about fuel because it wasn't intended to go further. we end up cutting through the fog and visually based on the service center's recommendation where to and in a different airport, the person that was with me from washington, d.c.

and had never been in a small plane had an experience of a lifetime. i don't want to discount what goes on in the lower 48 but what we have done in alaska has been a very good job. we have the capacity to train these folks in alaska but the concern is they are not filling the vacancies with the rumor mill ripe with -- this is how they are going to contract it out. i want to make it very clear, we are not interested -- i would like for you to get to a point where you can give me what a plan for training and what the rollover is. those are critical people for conditions in alaska. my experience was about a month and a half ago. it reassures me the quality of people that we have working there. >> yes, sir, you have a very high quality team up there. that is a unique environment. let me assure you that we are looking at this. we recently had a new federal

ruling that allows us to do two things. one, we can continue with people who would otherwise be looking at retirement. if they want to stay, they may and others who retire and then think i would rather be working again. this new federal work allows us to go back to an anuatant which was previously prohibited. i don't have the full details but i will get back with you and your office to make sure that we have the staffing levels that are required up there. have i no intent of making any change in that environment so that i think i can assuage that fear for you. >> great. the second one i want to thank your office for, we had to get waivers for oxygen, your administration helped a great deal on that. literally we were in some cases two day ace way from people having their capacity to have

oxygen to live. we had to have waivers and i appreciate your office but the one thing they didn't grant is waivers again for oxygen tanks for construction and the reason, for construction, you're using them for welding and so forth. we are transporting these containers on snow machines across the tundra. they are not going on a smooth ride. if you could look into that, ilt greatly appreciate it. they literally made a difference people's lives overnight and it is a unique situation of transfering those facilities. we can't do it by road. >> i'm aware. >> let me follow up by a couple of quick things. i only have a couple of seconds left. when pilots are denied by their carrier not to fly because of fatigue, is there a record by the airlines when that happens? do you know how many of those have ever occurred?

in order, where an airline says you look too tired or the pilot says i'm too tired, is there such a record or documentation that you can say it is actually they are doing it? >> those records are being maintained, senator, by the carriers. i will tell you that i think a number of carriers have addressed this pretty progressively. they have what they call commuter letters where a pilot -- the commute itself is led to some fatigue. they have a vehicle which they can take themselves off a flight. this is again an industrial solution so they are different on different carriers. some of the carriers that i've seen, the language allowed them to take themselves off a flight and they can make up the flight another day when they are rested. >> do you -- i don't mean to interrupt you.

do random reviews to see -- i mean, i don't want to be critical of the airline industry because i think generally it is an amazing safe industry overall be we have some issues but -- what they tell you and what you see may be two different things . do you have capacity? do you have authority and capacity to say i want to see last month of how many people you pilots said no, i can't fly because of fatigue or you have turned away pilots. have you done that? >> we have not made that recommendation to my knowledge to go in or request that type of inspection. i'm certain if we did, the carriers would volunteer it. >> you have the legal capacity to do that? >> i don't believe we do. but i would see no reason why as long as we kept the information proprietary that a carrier, how many people called in sick and

how many said they couldn't i fly due to fatigue, not illness, but fatigue, i'm very comfortable the carriers would share that with us. >> i've gone way past my time. i just want to say your example when you posted on the website, i did that as mayor a couple of types when they were not paying their bills. the collection rate spiked rapidly. i think that is a good idea. take it one more step. i was glad to hear about it today. thank you. >> thank you, senator hutchison is the ranking member of the full committee. >> thank you. mr. chairman and thank you administrator babbit. let me say first of all that we must acknowledge in the overall how safe our aviation system is and we make that our highest prior to. we will always do that.

however, as we all know, the flight 3407 is weighing on our minds and we have learned a lot from the investigation but we now must act. let me first ask you, on the timetable, i understand that end of january is when you're looking at the studies and the data that you have a notice and that drags out so let me ask you, and you know that we sent you a letter, a very bipartisan letter led by senator d organ and rockefeller but also senator demint and senator snowe and really bipartisan saying how can we do this faster? that's our question to you. >> well, when we put the notice of proposed rule making we are obligated by the rules of federal procedure to take comments. people have a comment window

that we have to observe. we have to then digest those comments. a good example would be one that has slowed down a rule that is again parallel to this one and near and deer to -- dear to me for training pilots. i really don't have a good, direct answer as to how to make this faster but i can assure you if there is gaps in there we're going to close them as quickly as i can. >> could i ask you, though, don't you have an emergency authority as well, if you see something that you think can be addressed quickly, i mean, when we have had the screw on a cap not being correct, you have done emergency -- the f.a.a. has in the past. is that a possibility in this instance because people are -- are really concerned about --

especially the tired -- the fatigue issue. well, part of our call to action, we have reviewed with all the carriers, the risk mitigation, fatigue and risk mitigation procedures. the carriers have been very willing to comply. i was very pleased to see several of the unions take very progress i action and write serious pieces in their publications. you know, when i say that, we have to remember that every day, 20,000 pilots are going to go to work today. and they are going to do a great job. they are professionals. we're trying to find the two or three that are not. that's, you know, that's the hard part. >> let me just ask you this. will you reserve the capability if you see something that can be done on a more expedited basis, on a temporary measure, obviously, while you're in this

rule making, not to overreact, if you -- do not see fit, to act, but will you at least hold open the possibility that if you see something that can be done more quickly, that on a temporary basis you could do an emergency -- if you decided it was warranted? >> yes, if the data that we had indicated that we had a gaping hole somewhere, absolutely, i would act and i appreciate the letter that you all have written. we're -- it is hard to convey this here but there is nobody pushing us any harder than i am internally and i've been at it a long time. this is something near and dear to me as well. we have -- i should mention that one of the areas that we have people to respond to and 80 of 98 carriers responded so we now have foqua and asap programs, voluntary programs. >> that is very positive. >> very positive.

the ones who didn't in most cases have a pretty good darn reason. they are just too small. >> let me just say in closing that i am very concerned along with senator rockefeller. we had an amendment and the stimulus bill to try to have some incentives for private investment in next -- he asked the question which i would have asked if he hasn't asked it first. i would say it is probably our highest prior to, the chairman and myself, for the next step in safety as well as preparing for the cape to believe the have the robust airline industry that we want to have as the economy governor-elects -- gets -- it is a economy gets better. know that something that both of us consider very important and if we can go forward with some public private partnerships or

incentives, i'm certainly going to be supportive of that as well. we'll work with you on that. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. let me reiterate, necks-gen is for me as well. it enhances safety. no question about that. we have a lot of issues in my judgment it is not acceptable to have 2020 and 2025 dates here. we need to move aggressively and quickly. i share senator hutchison's comment. necks general has to be a priority. >> thank you very much. mr. chairman. thanks for holding this hearing. thank you director for being here again. let me say that first of all, nexgen is a priority for me as well. i would reiterate what senator hutchison said that our transportation system is without a doubt the safe est system in

the world. we cannot rest on our past achievements. this was proven with the tragedy of air flight 3407 which brought the safety of our airlines back in the public eye and what was so chilling for me is to learn about the fatigue issues and some of the training issues with the regional flight and the most chilling was a conversation that was recorded between the captain and the first officer when the first officer told the pilot i had never seen icing conditions. i've never experienced in i of that. i started looking into these de-icing rules and what had been happening and i was shocked to find out, you were not at the helm of this time but the de-icing rule has been pending for 12 years. i raised this issue earlier, a few weeks ago. i was pleased. i worked with the new head of it to try to move out of o.m.b. and

we're able to get it out of public comment. this is 12 years. when you said 3,000 pages for this newest rule, it would be 250 pages a year or something. over a 12-year period. we can't let these rules sit for 12 years. my first question is about that timing issue and that is can you assure us that this flight time rule will be completed by 2010? the fatigue rule? >> you mean december 31 of this year? >> of next year. >> of next year. yes, i can. i can't even conceive, of course i'm the person who wanted it out by the end of this year. i now understand some of the complexities. one thing i want to say in some of these rule makings, while the rule itself may take a while, that doesn't mean that the underlying issue that the rule

is protecting hasn't been addressed and the icing is a good one. we had an issue, because of the time frame, we acted immediately. directives that protected -- what this rule does is gathers all of those up in one place. we had the issue -- safety itself wasn't left exposed. it was a fact that we were doing it with directives instead of a rule but the underlying safety issue was protected. >> that is very good but you would agree that we would like these in a rule. i certainly thought of that when we had our laptop flight over the twin cities. the carrier had rule you cowln't be doing email and -- couldn't do email and personal texting. the other issue is the adequacy of flight schools and the captain, as was noted with the student, the student in as short as six months many of these

pilots land jobs at regional carriers, can these flight students -- schools train students to become commercial pilots to adequately prepare them to fly 100 people in the air? >> that's why we're making the suggestion that we're making. again, i want people to appreciate -- i think there has been some misunderstanding that i'm opposed to the idea that we have better training. i was looking to better training before anybody brought the issue up. i'm concerned about the elements of training and i'm concerned that we're not giving people the elements they need to do the mission they are doing. if somebody is going to be a crop duster for commercial aviation, they had better learn some things about low altitude flying and better know that business pretty well. if you're going to carry passengers and take the responsibility of carrying anywhere from 10 to hundreds of passengers with you, you have an obligation and we have an obligation to make sure that you have been trained and exposed to

every performance that we can imagine today and there will be the un-- the unknowns happen. the flight into the hudson was a great example. i flew for 25 years. i hit a lot of birds but no one ever thought that you could ingest enough birds to kill both engines. it happens. >> right. so the training is key. then the other thing we talked about is just this idea of the regional airlines themselves as a kind of farm team for the major carriers. i have asked this before, people, if if this is seen as a steppingstone for a job with a major carrier and the answer is commonly yes. what i'm wondering about is the safety impacted when you this type of farm system. the pilots are only working for a short period of time. what incentive do they have to prepare them with anything other than the bare minute mum

training? people leaving the regional carriers and how do we fix that? >> the -- i'm not here to defend the regional airline industry. i was in the private sector for 42 years. i've been in a government seat for six month s. my exposure in the private sector is far more vast. so i understand, you know, all sides, both large airlines and small once. there are any number of very senior well-qualified 20-25-year pilots at regional airlines. they love their jobs there. maybe they live in smaller towns. >> i believe that. >> so it is a career for them and for a lot of people. >> how about some -- some of the younger pilots with the training don't stay as long. do you think the regional airlines are investing as long and as much in their training after they start up with the

airline and some of the major carriers? do they have the same training facilities as the carriers? >> manyor them do. i can't speak for all of them. in our call to action, one of the things that we ask is that we go and our inspectors went to every facility and reviewed with the head of training, our principle operations inspectors reviewed all of the training and we found some areas that could use some improvement. they were meeting the minimum standards. most of the large carriers now are holding meetings with their regional partners to ensure they have the same level of commitments and training and the safety forums and the discussions of how to better mentor. all of these things have gone under the table now >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much. thank you, mr. chairman and i appreciate the continued focus on this important subject.

the legislation that the committee has been working on that will address a lot of these issues, is, as you know, mr. administrator, is underway. i think one of the questions i've raised in the past had to do with the pilots' records and their availability to a perspective employer and those having to be voluntarily turned over opposed to a prospective employer having access to those records which i think is really important. i know the legislation addresses that issue. in your testimony you talked about the distinction between quantity and quality. i won't deny that there are -- --, you can't, i'm not playing in the nba because i don't have the skill level to get there. there is a difference no matter how many hours i would practice but i do think there is something to be said for experience and having a

sufficient number of hours and this is one of the issues, of course, that i think has been focused on as part of our deliberations here as well. but how do you square that up when you've got say a dc-9 that might be falling from minneapolis to soo sioux falls, south dakota that has 30 passengers and you might have an r.j. that is full and has 50 passengers. it could be more than you might have on someone who is flying a full-size jet and yet the number of hours, requirements and the distinction that is made in terms of the experience and what you allude to is the quality versus quantityly distinction. i'm interested in hearing you elaborate on that because it seems to me at least those number of hours and experience that a pilot has got to be part

of the equation in determining bhornt that pilot is equipped and qualified to fly some of these planes. >> sure. well, it wouldn't really matter to me whether they had one passenger or 100. they should be as qualified as we can make them. in that case, everyone, whether they are flying a regional jet or a triple 7, they would have to have an air transport rating and they would have exactly the same qualifications. what comes into questions is who can sit in the right seat and who can be the co-pilot. under today's legislation and regulations, that person can have a commercial pilots license and over the years, i alluded to -- became somewhat dependent on the fact that the traditional airline industry, the model 25 years ago pretty much asthaurd the co-pilot would sit in that seat to a number of years and be exposed to icing and learn their

trade sitting in the right seat and that was ok. but what we have today is new airlines hire 100 pilots. 50 will be captains and 50 co-pilots and no guarantee that they have achieved any of this experience. what i'm suggesting is that and in terms of the number of hours, an advanced notice of proposed rule making, you put it out for suggestions and i'm putting out or propose to put out is a rule that says you need -- if you're going to go to work for a 121 carrier and you're going to sit in the right seat, you need to bring the day you come to work, a set of credentials that is superior to what you're asked to bring today and allowed to bring today. you're going to have icing training and upset training and operator and a limblated environment. you're going to have seen all of these things. what concerns me is to simply

say you need some number of hours and i'm not sure what that number of hours is. maybe it is 1,000 hours of experience needed along with those elements. i also think when we get past here, as i stated earlier, i think we need to take a look. we have come a long way in technology. we have aircraft that do a lot more today than when this rule was written and i think some of these elements required to hold an a.t.p. need to be revisited. all of these, now, a carrier, has put them in -- we need to have those -- that nidse to be an insurance when you go co--- needs to be an assurance when you go to work to have those as an requirement. >> quantity does matter where you have enough experience and hours operating some of these aircraft. and not -- i'm not disputing the notion that quality and ability to fly in different types of

circumstances and environments is important but i do think there is a point, too, where these pilots -- there is an aassumption i think that sometimes these smaller planes are not as difficult to fly and therefore you don't need as much experience and that certainly is -- i don't think is the case so i've just wanted to focus a little bit on that. >> i agree with you on that point. sometimes the smaller operations at the difficult airports are very complex and require a high level of skill. >> right. the other issue i want to take a mention in to with regard i think the senator has touched on it and that is the issue that came into play on flight 34067. both pilots had commutes in. one of the things in the letter that we signed to you trying to get the focus on is the flight limits haven't been changed for a number of years.

the f.a.a. had a proposal i'm told, the language for years, was pulled after being out there for sometime and after some recent crashes they have revisited that issue and -- which is why you're -- you know, the letter i guess urged them to move forward. as you might imagine, the airlines are not very receptive to these -- the idea that lowering flight times for crew because you obviously you're going to have to hire more pilots and that costs more and it is going to impact scheduling and everything else. wondering, commutes to before somebody gets on a plane to fly a plane and the way you calculate the limits that pilots, the number of hours they can fly, how you -- we talked a lot about this but i want to hear your thoughts and perspective about how this can be addressed. that is clearly very much at issue in this particular

incident where you had pilots come in. were sick and had had long commutes, sleeping in the, you know, wherever the crew is, wherever as they log hours sleeping but clearly adds to the amount of time that they have been flying and been up. and i'm sure it has got to affect their ability to be alert when it comes time to actually fly the plane. >> well, that's an issue, we have talked about it several times here. i am concerned that simply to come up with a prescriptive rule to identify pilot commuting is really not much of a burden on the carrier. the pilot would simply have to leave home earlier in order to get some amount of time. i'm presuming everybody is saying you need to be some place in some zone but it is very difficult, you know, when we begin to think about what is

going to be -- who decides who commutes and who doesn't? we draw circle around. i'll give you an example, i've been based in washington, d.c., much of my career i was based in washington, d.c. a number of pilots lived in annapolis. many worked out of dulles. i lived at dulles. i hated to fly out of p.w.i. because it was an hour and a half drive up there and if it was bad weather i was looking at a couple of hours if it was an ice storm. was i a commuter? i lived here. this was my domicile and i lived here. as opposed to -- we have -- there are so many ways somebody could show up fatigued and it is very difficult to put your arms around well, is it the fatigue issue or do we have some rule that says you commuted. you have to be here 12 hours. we don't have any insurance if that 12 hours was good rest. we don't have any way of measuring the quality of the

rest you got anymore than we have of measuring i live here and i have a child that was up at midnight. i took them to the emergency room at 2:00 a.m. i was due on a flight at 8:00. i have no business flying that flight but i'm not a commuter. these are some of the difficulties we have faced with the burden would be on the pilot. on the broader rule you mentioned, some concern that the carriers say well, this could cost more money. if it is uniform to everybody it doesn't make any difference. if the price of fuel goes up two cents for all of them, collectively they won't like that but at least it is not an unfair burden. in this case it is the issue of safety. i'm not overly concerned about the fact that we might have some additional pilot staffing that would come from this.

>> you may commute an hour and a half to two hours to get to your airport. commuting from seattle to a flight to new york, that is a very long commute and fatigue would certainly come into play. >> that is one of those ones, though, where professional responsibility, i certainly wouldn't if i knew i was going to have to fly at 8:00 in the morning, i wouldn't get on a flight at midnight. >> thank you very much, senator. i have a number of questions but we have a couple of other colleagues that probably wish to ask a second round. let me just -- i have questions about pilots' records and the equipment outage for november 19. i want to ask them before we -- and some nexgen. let me ask you about the crash

because i thought you said earlier that you felt that the training was sufficient in that cockpit. you know, i guess i have tried to read as much and learn as much as i could about that crash. 49 people lost their lives in the airplane, that includes the crew of that aircraft and one person on the ground. as i have looked through this, it seems to me there are a number of things, significant questions about that cockpit. i don't know whether it is an abhor ration. it just so happens this is the one airplane out of a lot of flights that because a lot of things went wrong this was the one that crashed as well but it doesn't exist elsewhere or the question of the training, just as an example? you're a pilot. you have flown a lot. you know the -- and i know that

a stick pusher. >> stick shaker. stick shaker went off first and then the stick pusher. >> and the crew, prior to that time. you indicated this wasn't ice. of course the reason that the nose had to go down was because of ice. they needed to pick up speed. that ice was causing more drag. they had to get that nose down. my understanding is that neither of the people in that cockpit vfed in-right in training on a stick pusher. did you feel like there had been adequate training on that portion? with respect to that cockpit crew? >> i think this accident has shown us that the fact that they were exposed to the stick pusher, which is the action of last result, the sequence, the airplane was -- had been in icing conditions but the airplane was not icing. it had its equipment on.

>> well, it was icing but the boots -- we're dealing with the icing. >> they had begun to slow the airplane down and put a lot of drag devices on it. they failed to monitor the speed droff-off. when it dropped off, the stick shaker dropped off, and instead of giving full power, which they should have done, they thought they could recover with partial power, which they couldn't. the airplane went to the back-up phase and said if you're not going to lower the nose, i will and that's when the stick pusher took over. they had been exposed to that training but not in the fidelity that we could give it to them. >> if you had been a passenger would you picture -- -- would you wish there had been more training on that? is there an experience issue here? the person in the right seat

talked during the recording that they didn't have much experience or understanding about ice or -- and so on. we know the hours of the right seat and the left seat and the pilot's record in the left seat. is there an experience issue in that cockpit? >> i think this investigation is going to point to that. why someone can be trained in something and not do what they were trained to do is what befuddles most of us. >> if you had been a passenger or a loved one of yours was asking these questions and one person flew from seattle to new york and the other from florida to new york with no evidence of having been in a -- is there a commuting issue, in terms of causing fatigue? >> the lack of professional planning on their part is what really troubles me. why would you do that? why would you think that you could commute? why would you come home from

vacation, you know, four hours before departure? >> what i'm trying to say is i think a whole series of things came together in that cockpit that were certainly troublesome to me as an observer after the fact. the training. experience. pilot record. as you know, the c.e.o. indicated that had he had access to all of the pilot's records that pilot would not have been hired. are you familiar with that? >> yes, sir. >> training. experience. commuting. pilots' records. all four raised flags for me. i guess my question is that just an aberration on one cockpit or one airplane? >> i think it was a very bad collection of events but i think we have the wherewithal going forward to remove each of those.

if we removed any one of them we would not have had an accident. >> i always want to say that pilot and co-pilot, i'm sure were wonderful human beings who can not speak for themselves. i always feel bad talking about those two people in the cockpit who lost their lives but we don't have a chance not to talk about them and i also know speaking of pilots and flight crews, most of us fly all the time. all the time. and we know, we know that there are a whole lot of men and women who fly those airplanes who do a terrific job. professional. great people. i admire their skills. i don't want this either to reflect on the profession but i do want to make sure the things that we now know and i've cited some of them, represent an urge any is the f.a.a. in terms of

response. mr. babbit, when you were nominated, i expressed that i was pleased with that nomination. you have a wealth of experience. and you also now understand the -- as i described previously about trying to get through labyrinth of government agencies, it is like walking through wet cement. very hard -- very hard to get things done and yet i think you understand that we're saying we want you to move aggressively and i think you have come to this job not wanting to be a caretaker. you want to move progressively. i have other questions but i want to call on senator rockefeller. >> i just wanted to comment. i agree with what senator according toan is saying. i have -- -- dorgan is saying. i have an icing question.

you just sitting there and having observed what you do, you are a take-charge. you are proactive. you don't react. you are proactive by nature because this is one of the most difficult jobs in all of washington and also one of the most powerful jobs in all of washington because you have the kind of power that most americans don't understand, but we do. i fly into west virginia almost never on a jet. i mean, it is a -- i serve myself champagne if i'm actually at the end of the -- we just don't have those. i'm always concerned about the icing thing. i always worry about it because we have a lot of bad weather in those hills but what i want to say is what i said at the beginning is that the nature of this committee has changed. on all fronts. on all subjects. and it used to be sort of the

go-along-type committee and keep the training running and planes running. we're not that now. we are delving into -- we have a crew of investigative lawyers who report just to me and they can go anywhere they want and uncover any wrongdoing they want and they have access and use subpoena power freely and the health insurance industry can tell you all about that and so can the internet scam industry tell you all about that. that's what we do because we're fighting for people here. this is not a statement to you. it is a statement, you know, to everybody. we care first and foremost about consumers and their safety and we understand that we're in economic difficulties. we understand that everybody -- every corporation that has a small jet or a big jet or a small prop or a big prop. it is a general aveation

industry. i talked to a guy last night in texas. he says their sales are down something like 70%. you can buy a $25 million plane for $9 million. i understand that. but we cannot be influenced by that with respect to managing safety and consumer interest. i want that message to go out loud and clear, all within each of my voice. i thank you. i respect you. i think you're doing an excellent job. you have the personality and the straight-ahead look. you answer questions directly. you don't avoid and you're proactive. thank you. >> mr. babbit. let me ask about pilots' records. the f.a.a. has made a part of their call to action the ability for a potential employer to access all of the pilots' records. is that correct?

>> yes, sir. >> good cooperation on that? >> yes, sir. >> the use of laptops, personal wireless communication devices in the cockpit during the operation, the commercial operation of an airplane, my understanding is given what we experienced what we saw with the commercial airliner overflying by an hour and 20 minute or so the city that it was aping for, the pilots indicated they were working on their laptops on pilots' schedules. .

>> this may be one of those areas where it is so up is no one would need guidance. anything that is destructive in the cockpit, my only thought would be that i would not limit -- laptops can be useful and the number of carriers provide them and they have databases for takeoff information. some people of their flight crew manuals, airport -- airplane manuals, stored in their laptop. a magazine, anything, doing puzzles, anything that is destructive, they should not be doing that. we were not even allowed to have magazines or newspapers in the cockpit, period.

>> november 15, there was in tand equipment outage. what caused that and how could we have confidence that will not happen again? >> i am very familiar with this one. from about 5:25 in the morning on a was very aware of this. a robber in large networks system was being replaced -- a router in large networks system was being replaced. what was put on line, it had a second problem and this probably should of surprised many of us, there was a human error involved. the team had suppressed the warning system. had been put on with the warning system on, it would have tripped and about 15 seconds and we would have known in sudley but it did not happen. it was allowed to go online and the bad data in.

safety wasls never compromised. we lost the ability to have our system automated, the ability to process lead plan information on an automated basis is what we lost part of the system worked, it identified it had a problem. it identified the dead, was herodias and8wv essentially were bused to shut the system down it give us that warning much later than it should have due to the human error. i put together an oversight team. i have asked, this was a contractor for us to, i ask the cio's of the faa along with the omb representatives from the department of defense and the dot all, along with a couple of outside experts, to look at this system and i want answers on two grounds -- the short term, what happened? how did we allow this to happen?

and number two, what can we do so that it never happens again? the seconds phase of this report will to take a look at the network architecture. we are building a complete new in for short-run this and i want to make certain we have a robust architecture that is protected and redundant and will never allow this to happen again. >> we are working with the faa, the air force and others on the issue of air space for unmanned aircraft. uav's or uias's are a significant part of this. it is important that we continue to meet our deadlines there. i want to make one final comment and i will have to depart.

i said to ms. gilligan, that we intend to monitor very carefully what is happening with respect to york ruled that making. she indicated that some of that had slipped. were originally talking about december and she took to the january, you talked about today a difficult it is to do these things but ton lines are hard. just on the icing issue, after 19 years on the most-wanted list, we will really be pushy. we are doing that because we think it is essential at lorimar, launched last to get to the end stage of this. if you have been there a short time and you inherit these things that work unfinished.

it is than your responsibility to finish them vercalm. we want a good relationship with few. one in which you put -- we push and you delivered. the skies will be safer as a result. i am really pete -- pleased that you became the faa administrator. you bring a wealth of experience to this job, more so than many others in past years. you have the capability to do really good things. we want to give you the tools to do it and we want you to meet deadlines. i thank you very much for coming here. i will send a list of additional questions, especially on the subject of nextgen which is a significant priority of us sours. >> i have suggested to some of the staff that perhaps we could give you a quick tour and a

timeline of some of things we are doing. i think you will see a tremendous acceleration here. components are coming together. i appreciate some of the push you give us parent you should rest assured that some of that push is going on internally. from me. and i would be delighted to escort a group to show you live and in color what we are doing with nextgen and what the potential is. >> thank you very much senator. lot newberg -- senatorlautenberg, would you proceed? >> how long should i proceed? >> [laughter] until you run out of breath. >> i beg you for being here and thank you to the other centers

for their constant attention to matters of air travel. i am informed that we have some of the people from the family'is of those who lost their lives in the buffalo flight. there is a lot we can do for consolation but to let them know that their presence and their interest can help us get to a place where perhaps we can make sure that something like that does not happen again. we are pleased to have tobabbetmr babbett as the a mind

i am pleased on the interest and the action he is committed to taking to provide safe travel. it is amazing when you think about, about the record that has been composed over the years in aviation in this country. even one slip is one too many. runway safety and aircraft overruns' continue to be significant problems. recently, a dot inspector general report highlighted dangerous run like procedures at newark airport. these procedures were brought to the attention of the faa nearly two years ago by a newark air

traffic controller but yet the faa has just now approached desperate why did it take them so long to act on safety concerns raised by that air traffic controller? >> that is a very serious issue for us. i think you should know that since i have been the administrator, my chief counsel has created an office to completely revamp how we deal with the whistle-blowers. the most important point to want to make is when someone raises a question and they have to blow a whistle to get the information to was, we have already had a breakdown. there is already a slip of the system. when people bring us safety issues, we should deal with it. one piece of apple desperately. something when robert we have a carrier to communicate.

we had a failure to communicate. i want to change that. >> we can count on you to be a willing listener or to make sure that someone is a willing, unbiased listener when complaints come from employees in the system? >> that is precisely what we are trying to create. >> in the past, there has been some concern about security of the jobs. and we don't want to hear about that if they raise a complaint. >> that complete replies in the face of what we're trying to achieve with the safety management systems. i have testified here and elsewhere and spoke about it and before every professional group, we need to have a system that allows people to point out safety clause that will guide as to avoid accidents, avoiding

problems, of avoiding conflicting runway issues, any of these are worthy of being addressed in to find the people to allow them to express it. >> certainly, we know that when things go the other way, when a mistake is learned about, when bad practice is threatening, that the faa should be quick to jump on it. they should certainly be equally as quick to respond to something that comes from an experienced flight controller. i want to talk for a moment on depauw colgan flight. the first officer of that flight had a base pay of around $20,000. she traveled from seattle on a red eye.

she carries around some concerns about her income, live at home with her parents, and she may have been afraid to lose the time that she would not be paid for, so much pressure. you and i talked about talkedsued about captain sully. he was cut 40% in his salary in recent years, forcing him to take another job. with all the responsibilities that commercial pilots shoulder, should there be some review of salaries?

it would be unusual but this -- they don't send anybody up in a nasa shuttle unless they are in good health. there are so many other situations where heavy responsibility lies an individual where their health isn't a concern. that includes reductions in stress and and ease of facility to get to work. i am not against people having to travel to get to work. the thing that should happen is there should be sufficient time to get to work and have enough of a time lapse that they could have recovery time before they get in the cockpit. the question of incomes ought to be