at 9:00. henry tarel at george washington university discusses different and the obama's family vacation with ken walsh and previous presidents vacations all ahead on "washington journal". . .

host: want to talk about who getsjñ on these watch lists on airplanes. we want to find out your opinions and your thoughts. you can also send an e-mail at journal@cspan.org. here is the headline in the newspaper. yesterday's airplane landed at the detroit metro airport after a nigerian men allegedly tried to ignite explosives.

the suspects leg was burned and he was subdued by passengers and already it is being discussed by members of the administration as well as members of congress. this is the lead story in the detroit free press, nigerian man is accused of trying to blow airliner. -- blow up an airliner. they have identified the suspect. he is a 23-year-old nigerian national. it was unclear friday why he allegedly wanted to attack the flight already from amsterdam. passengers subdued him as he allegedly tried to detonate a -- an explosive device that failed.

it was unclear how the man identified by federal officials managed to get the explosive on the plane. it was a plane carrying 270 passengers that departed from amsterdam with passengers who originated in nigeria. a senior administration officials said the government did not yet know whether the man had the capacity to take down the plane. the article goes on to say that a federal counterterrorism official who asked not to be identified said that the suspect was apparently in a government law enforcement intelligence data base but it is not clear what extremist groups or individuals he might be linked to. ubt "the washington post,"

the suspect's name appears to be included in the government's record of terrorism suspects. he has told federal investigators that he has ties to al qaeda and traveled to yemen to collect the incendiary device and instructions on how to use it. we want to find out from you your thoughts on whether the process needs to be re-evaluated and changed. east lansing, mich., an airline for democrats. you can see the airport. tell us your thoughts. caller: i think they should

definitely strengthen who gets on the plan and make it tougher. host: tell us about what happened yesterday. how did you first find out about it and what were your thoughts when you first found out about it? caller: i was watching c-span, actually, and i saw it on the ticker tape at the bottom. my cousin works of that airport. he called me at home. i just feel that they keep talking about racial profiling, that they are profiling the muslims and stuff. i'm sorry, i am not prejudiced at all but i think they need to make -- they need to strengthen this stuff. i think we are being lulled into a false sense of security. i hope nothing happens in a few more days if they kidnap a plane

and run it into the empire state building or something and then we will all be crying the blues thinking we have to tighten up more. host: what kind of worked as her cousin to at the airport? what kind of security measures does he see and what does he tell you? caller: he is a baggage handler. she tells the it is so much more strict you can virtually do hardly anything now. that is as it should. a want to get off the phone. i want to wish you and all the good folks at cspan a good upcoming 2010 and god bless, ok? host: next up is our independent line from indiana. caller: we should definitely

keep in touch with potential domestic terrorists. we have people with movements against the president like the tea party movements and whatnot. we have to watch the ranks of people like that. you have a situation where people can sneak into the white house. i find that the issue that you control -- that you can show up at the white house and say that you forgot your invitation and get in. we have to make sure we keep an eye on that because there is a lot of going on because of this last election. this is the first black president. we need to make sure domestically that we don't hurt ourselves from within. host: you talk about beefing up security domestically but this young man came in from overseas. what do we do there? caller: as far as an incident like that, you deal with an

isolated incident with policies. we don't need to find out what country he was born in and go occupy the country like iraq and iran. nevertheless, there is a way to deal with that. there is no reason to rattle your saber around the world and invade a country. when the pirates took over that ship, we took the mat with sniper shots instead of invading a country. we have the right idea to deal with things and you deal with them individually. host: our democrat line, you are next. caller: what we just take all of our freedoms away so we can feel safe again? the iranians and pakistan is an of danny's do not u.s. as terrorists even though we are

sending armed drones and killing civilians. host: what do you mean by fake terror alerts? caller: i think it's all fake. we're killing people all over the world. host: you would say to the people on that flight yesterday that it was a fake terror alert? caller: it was a law enforcement issue. i don't feel like it was a terrorist attack. host: what is the difference between a terrorist attack and a violation of law enforcement? caller: a terrorist attack is when you send clothes into other countries and bomb them and you declare war on them. that is a terrorist attack, to me. host: we will move on to indianapolis, on our line for democrats. caller: i agree, we need to pay attention. we need to have a watch list but

we need to watch everyone inside the country and outside the country because there are homegrown terrorists, there are terrorists from other countries, and we need to be watching these people as much as weekend. it is a tricky thing to watch in such a way because we could be doing racial profiling. people could be falsely accused of many things and put in prison because of things that they did not do. i think people are walking around and they are really too afraid and they should not be afraid because it just really stifles the ability for people to go on and do the normal things in their lives. black people have been victims of racism for a long time but we have to continue to move forward in our lives and do what we need to do.

all americans should do that regardless of forever the threat comes from host: i want to redo a twitter message. k#ñhe says to start with middle eastern and bearded suspect. how could we beef up security without going over the line and turning it into racial profiling? caller: in my opinion, black men are being racially profiled many times. it is the way people are being treated. you may pull them over and stop them and you want to -- the police may want to inspect and check them out the early but it is the abused and a disrespect that police give black people when they pull them over. yes, you do have to watch them.

yes, you want to do that but if they do pullover somebody like that, treat them with respect, check them out, and then you can -- law enforcement can be more respected if they go that route and people will be more apt to accept what is going on instead of the police being so abusive. treat the people as terrorists before they know for sure if they are terrorists, people are innocent until proven guilty. host: president obama was notified of the incident yesterday and discussed it with security officials. the white house said it was -- he was monitoring the situation and has received regular updates from his vacation spot in hawaii. we will continue this discussion not only through this telephone

segment but also at 7:45 eastern, we will talk with clark kent irvin, the former inspector general with, and security during the former bush administration and we will get his thoughts on what happened with the flight flying into detroit yesterday. lander, wyoming, you are next. >> this is wyoming. caller: i used to work for homeland security with tea s.a. and the airports. -- with tsa and airports. some of your callers said we should beat up internal security and secure ourselves in the united states instead of sending

many of our troops to other countries to fight the battle offshore. i was a vietnam veteran. i see both sides of it. host: specifically, what kind of work to do for tsa? caller: i was a screener at the gate in utah, a screening bags with x-ray. host: without breaking confidentiality, what kind of things do they tell you to look for that might tip you off that something bad will happen? caller: i cannot really say. i cite a piece of paper say i cannot divulge the things i learned on how we are supposed to profile people and see people as they come through.

you looked inside the bag with x-ray and you could tell that normal things in a bag or a suitcase just do not belong. you can tell there is something different. host: is there something that says if this person is wearing x or has x in their bag, that person is to be pulled over and questioned in depth? caller: that's true. the best advice given us was that if you have a feeling that there is something wrong or something different, you better say something. normally, human intuition is that if you see something irregular or out of place, it is. if it sounds too good to be true, it is. in many cases, you have that feeling. my main point in calling is that i think if we spent the vast

amount of money we are spending into overseas and put that into a greater security that we have now in the united states, we would be much better off than going over to another country and occupying it and trying to show them or give them something they don't really want. many of those countries don't want to be democratized are they don't want capitalism. they want to have what they want. i understand the need help -- they need help but to occupy the country -- it is like what rome did during the roman empire. they expended themselves so greatly that they actually fell as an empire. host: is there any sort of program within tsa that works with screeners overseas to help

them identify the things they should be looking for poor people flying into the united states? caller: there was a worldwide coalition and then 9/11 happened naturally after that, the home and security -- the online security -- there were upper level people and i was on the lower level so i don't know everything what happened there. i do know that many of the guidelines and the things that we did here in the united states were sent to the administration's of other countries to take to their security people. the people who were in charge of security were given those guidelines so they could make it more universal. my question is, has that been -- we have not had any clarity

within what home when security has been doing overseas, no clarity or bring it out into the open exactly how well the program has worked. host: thank you very much for your time. we want to take a look at this twitter message who writes," i thought we were going to train thousands of people to become air marshals. this sounds like a good opportunity for employment." our line for independence in detroit, go ahead. caller: i believe the real issue that we are overlooking in this, how can they get on the planet depends security? i believe that this is designed

to target a new group of individuals. we will use a different section of profiling instead of just saying that the muslims coming into america. now it is the nigerians. this is all designed to be a smokescreen. once i heard was detroit, i knew the media would take advantage of this. we have national security. they had an article not long ago hear about detroit. detroit is constantly getting badgered. that is my comment. one guy who had a feeling for

security. that is a profiling, to preveno. if you have suspicions, you pull people over. this is designed. host: officials describe the device as incendiary rather than explosive, pending tests by forensic experts at the fbi. incendiary devices usually deliver less impact than explosive devices. the remains of the device are being sent to an fbi expos of ladd in quantico for analysis. -- explosive lab in quantico for analysis. back to the phones -- orlando, fla., an airline for democrats. -- on our line for democrats. should we real bed -- reevaluate

our watch list? caller: my problem is that i cannot understand how he got anything that was explosive, incendiary or whatever on the plane. i travel a lot. last month by came from jamaica and they confiscated a repellent. host: do you think they took that as a result of some kind of profiling? caller: there is a list of stuff you cannot take on airplanes. repellent? host: did they tell you what they're concerned about? caller:no, it was on a list. jamaica has mosquitos and you

need repellent. host: i understand we will move on. turn down your television or radio, ok? caller: i have been on the waiting list for a while. i was going to talk about the man that called before may. e. he was saying about the guy that was on the plane was trying to blowball plane up. -- blow the whole airplane up. all this stuff about race, i am white and i have been bid up by

black cops. it goes both ways. you know how this? host: thank you for your call. the associated press has been updating us. they write that one law- enforcement official says the man claimed to have been instructed by al qaeda to detonate the plane over u.s. soil. other law-enforcement officials cautioned about such claims could not be verified immediately. they said that the man may have been acting independently, inspired but not specifically trained or ordered by terrorist -- terror groups. belle grove, california, an airline for republicans. caller: thank you for having me and i respect your program. host: is it time to reexamine the formula for watch lists? caller: i believe there is. i think they need to do that right away and i think they have to have a meeting like the copenhagen meeting and talk about the same thing about how

important security is. i was flabbergasted when i heard this and my friends in california didn't believe me when i told them it happened. we are into the holidays and when you talk about security in the military, we used to have dogs. i think they should have more dogs at the airport. to it -- if it is a new type of explosive that is not out there but you know people are carrying something all the time. i think the watch list to be updated and we have to be more aware of what is going on. it is a good you have this program on. people should look at cspan like you are. good luck to you and happy new year to you all. host: what kind of details would you want to put on this watch list so that people do not think

it is becoming some sort of a profiling list? can you do that? can you watch for specifics without saying that you are profiling? caller: when i was in the military, we look for certain things in people, too. i was in the vietnam war at least look for people that were looking kind of shaky and nervous and like that. you could spot somebody coming. i think we need to concentrate on those murders people -- those nervous people. i think we will have a lot of blue-eyed terrorists. that is what is coming next host: more from the article in "the new york times." president barack obama was kept informed throughout the day as he was on vacation at a secluded hawaiian beach house. he was given several follow-up

briefings on paper. the white house counter- terrorism chief convened an interagency meeting and discuss what steps should be taken for a second apartment, security officials said the transportation safety administration used layers of security measures at the nation's airports and that it would be tighteneing them as a result of the incident in detroit. colorado, on our live for democrats, welcome. caller: i kind of feel like a lot of details were left out. i heard the had a firecracker and he was burned. the first thing i heard was that he was from nigeria and had ties to al qaeda. i kind of feel like we get hit

with the drama right away. as far as someone security goes, i feel like they have the wrong focus. everything about terrorism or that we label terrorism, we want to make this big net that will cover everybody so we do not miss one mouse in the corner. that is not the focus at all. if they say they knew about this guy, why was he not more labeled and identified and why was he not on a watch list. ? it makes me think about the corruption in our system. i have heard we have had a senator on the no-fly less. ist. all they do is attack people. host: how would you go about changing the terrorist list?

caller: being open and being honest and being direct is important. the war is based on lies. host: you mean the government be more open and honest? caller: of course. if you are on velez then there is trouble, you need to be able to -- if you're on the list, abate said a new about that guide so why were they not on alert for them? it seems like these things are opportunities to make spite rules -- spy rules and make competition-free zones within our border and our patriot act is supposed to expire december

31. it will get renewed. this will help push that through. host: how old are you? caller: i am 52-years old and our constitution is the law of the land. our senators look to the new laws to evaluate them for their constitutionality. host: thank you for your call produce and younger than 52. our line for independence out of maine. caller: i am disappointed in cspan for helping to drum up the big terrorist scare. anybody that claims they are working with al qaeda, it should be clear they are working for the telecommunications -- the network operations that pulled up 9/11.

it is kind of unfortunate that what we should put on the watch list are people like is a big new kozinski, dick cheney, the list goes on and on. how about the people who were working for the turkish government and other suppliespi. host: what you think the gentleman you listed wanted to harm to the united states? caller: 9/11 was pulled off in order to organize support for an invasion of iraq and afghanistan which is based on complete lies. al qaeda has been a useful tool ever since they were founded in afghanistan for use against the russians. for you to pretend that you don't know that is embarrassing.

you really should stop playing this game that terrorism is not stage. host: chesapeake, va., on our line for democrats prin. caller: i read this story rmkearlier. as a security professional, technical, i came back from the middle east. it is interesting to see some of the procedures that were put in place. there were a number of things and i listened to different colors. we've gotten to the point where we distrust her government. our government has made mistakes and there are some things that have gone a certain way but it didn't. host: you say you are a security professional, what does that mean? caller: i am of the technical side.

i do work in the u.s. embassies and consulates, technical and non-technical. there are things that happened and for this gentleman to get through, that means that they have upgraded their ability to flaunt our technology to detect certain incendiary and explosive devices. this says there is a progression in their knowledge base. i am listening to everyone said what they're saying but they are not paying attention to the details. a lay person will not know that. host: as a professional, how much does it concern you that the suspect was not on the tsa n0-fly list?

>> because of where i have been and where had i have been all my life, doing the work that i have done, when i come into the country, i am always stop and ask detailed questions. at first, it was a bother but i started understanding the process that is the scary thing that i, and american, who is going overseas and doing service things for my government, i would be stopped in at the details. host: you think the people flying into the united states ought to be asked more questions at the point where they are flying from? caller: yes. many times when we talk about racial profiling, this is not racial profiling. it is said tuesday -- it is sad to say, we have problems with al qaeda and they are moslems so it

is not racial profiling, it is religious profile agreed maybe we need to do that more. it is a sad thing. host: our line for independence in southfield, michigan. caller: what is the criteria for the no-fly list? there was a family flying out of washington and a son was 5 years old and he made the no-fly list. should we beat up security but if we do who is to say who makes the list and who does not? host: what are your thoughts on that? caller: it would be hard for me to say of one or another person should or shouldn't make the list. the five year-old nadel list so

that was a mistake. let's see people coming from another country should make the list. who sets the criteria? how do you decide who makes the list. when i first heard about it, people could have lost their lives and how did this person get past security? now i look at it as to how we decide for this person's intent? how does this person make celeste. the list? everything that is going on is designed to make a new world government. this is a smokescreen the media is promoting a terror, terror, terror.

people are panicking. eventually, -- host: federal officials said there would be heightened security for domestic and international flights at airports across the country but the intensified levels would be likely layered from location to location depending on alerts, a security concerns, and other factors. let's remind you that in about 10 minutes, we will talk with clark kent irvin, the former inspector general for alleged security under the george bush administration and he will discuss issues surrounding homeland security, including this light that can from amsterdam yesterday and landed in detroit. nashville, tenn., on our line republicans, go ahead caller: caller: we need to address our

terrorism issues in the united states. if we don't, we will and of with the laudable block of buildings, airplanes, buses. look from the world what they are doing i have worked at the national airport and secured the security -- and installed security systems. i found the measures they are taking are not enough. host: which airport do to work at? caller: the international airport. i cannot comment on the security systems i work on but these folks can get inside buildings up to 200 feet. i think they need to implement security measures at the front door to keep these guys out. whether you are moslem, african- american, white, they need to make district on everybody. i appreciate you having me on. host: decatur, alabama, on our

life for independence, go ahead caller: the guy who called in about the blue-eyed terrorists. i did three years in an alabama prison on marijuana and they are eight camps. -- hate camps. if you want to find your terrorists, go to prisons. host:aoz you think we should put prisoners on the no-fly list? caller: not so much that the dollar through people in prison and treat them like they are terrorists. i am 65 years old and i don't own a gun or anything else. they are creating nothing but hate. -7hwe need to change our prison system and probably de- criminalize marijuana.

host: the director of the national institutes of health is our guest. we want to show you a little bit of his interview and you consider the entire interview tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m., eastern. >> those lines have no restrictions in terms of what applications can be applauded for it on december 4, my advisory committee, which looks over stem cell lines to see whether they measure up to the guidelines issued back in july and stimulated by the obama executive order, looked at these 27 lines and looked carefully at those who were donating the ambrose. the consent form says the stem cell lines are will be used to study the endoderm with an idea of studying how the pancreas

develops and how this might be used for diabetes. my advisory committee did not feel comfortable ignoring the language and recommended to me that these lines be approved but that they be restricted to circumstances that would fit that consent. after considering the recommendation, i had to agree and hence the reason for the stipulation. reasonable people don't always come to the same conclusion because these lines have been irreversibly stripped of all identifiers. some could argue that the consent no longer applies. that is not how my committee felt because i think this is such a visible area. there are some of justifiable at the concerns, i felt, as did my advisers, this of this was a circumstance where we should honor the terms of the original consent host: you can see the entire interview tomorrow at

10:00 a.m. at 6:00 p.m. on c- span. it is available right now online as a podcast at c- span.org. back to the telephones -- all long haul, on our line for independents. caller: i hope we do not go overboard with all this stuff. it is important to remain vigilant but if people start getting freaked and we start spending money on upgrades, i don't see where that will -- the israelis live with terrorist attacks every day. they move along with their lives. is now part of the psyche -- it is no part of the psyche and you must realize it will be there and there is not a whole lot you can do about it. host: you can go to an airport

in the united states and within an hour of your flight, you can still make it. if you are not in line in israel to get on that flight four or five hours before, you must get on the plane. caller: that would kind of suck, wouldn't it? i don't know what the answer is but i don't think we need to go off the deep end. i don't think the american people need to be completely freaked out about it. we're getting recovery and i could see people freaking out and stopping whatever recovery we have going on host: passengers can expect to see heightened screening, more bomb- sniffing dogs at some airports and more screening but there

will also be on specified, less- visible processes as well. the fbi and homeland security departments issued an intelligence about on november 20 about the threat picture for the holiday season. at the time, officials said they had no specific information about attack plans by al qaeda or other terrorist groups. our line for republicans in miami, go ahead caller: good morning. i like you and i think you are my favorite host. host: what are your thoughts about the terrorist watch list? caller: you mention to them doing a layered approach to surveillance. i don't like that term because that means they will use several

means of surveillance. like a gis system. that is profiling to the maximum. i think there is propaganda going on with the tsa. baekeland this guy was on the list but he was not picked up because he was -- they claim this guy was on the list but he was not picked out. internationally, we don't know what is going on? to me, that is propaganda going on. what do you think? host: let me get you respond to this twitter message -- you're talking about the tsa list like it is magic. have you make a list of what is in people's minds or hearts? caller: they can't but what they can do is -- with his lawyer thing is they have terrorist

letters. it could be your physical profile. it could be your emotional profile. it could be a psychological profile. they have all these different characteristics they bring together at one. and a lead they make -- and use the matrix system where if you had all the dots and a lineup, they will trigger you. host: our last call for this segment comes from ottawa, ill.. caller: the way i see it -- if this government cared anything about protecting us from terrorism, they would close the borders and put the army down there. 6xthey would bring all of our troops if we create terrorism then we will have terrorism here. that is all our government cuts -- does is call terrorism. that will look for peace or anything.

-- they don't look for peace or anything. they absolutely don't care anything about this country or the people edit but they like to put on a big front. host: your thought is that changing the watch list procedure will not stop this? caller: do what? host: your thought about changing the watch list is not going to necessarily reduce the terrorist threat to the united states? caller: the people in the government need to be on the watchless because they are destroying the country. host: we will leave it there. we'll take a short break and we'll continue our discussion on this flight from amsterdam to detroit as well as other issues surrounding homeland security with clark kent irvin, former inspector general and homeland security.

>> in the mid-1990's he was one of the most 50-influential people to watch in cyberspace. he created black planet.com, created a charter school in brooklyn and he will talk about his current study at harvard and what is ahead. >> beginning monday, a rare glimpse into the highest court for an unprecedented on the record conversations with 10 supreme court justices about the court, their work, and the history of the iconic supreme court building. five days of interviews with supreme court justices starts monday at 8:00 on c-span. get your own copy on dvd.

it is part of the american icon collection. it is a three-disc set. it is one of the many items available at c-span.org/store. "washington journal" continues -- host:h tell us what have you ben told about this situation regarding the delta a northwest flight the canada detroit yesterday? guest: we are still learning details but this seems to be a very serious terror attempt. that is what the white house is calling it. this probably happened at the worst possible time, the holiday time when people are troubling about the country. certainly, people should see heightened security measures at airports around the country as a result of this incident yesterday. host: as a former inspector at all my security, give us a sense of what is going on behind the

scenes. i know you cannot be specifically but given what you know of what goes and the government, what are they thinking about now? what do they want to put out? how will it keep the american people calm? guest: one thing is there is an investigation into what happened yesterday. there are two critical questions -- one question is, how is it that this person who apparently was at least on some kind of terror watch list, how is it he got aboard an aircraft? you may recall three years ago, there were a number of flights around this time of year that were diverted in mid-flight from europe to the united states wants it was learned by all my security that somebody on the flight had a name that matched a name on the watch list are based on what we heard yesterday, this

particular fellow's name was on a watch list. how did he get here? the second question is -- how did he get this incendiary device which was a mixture of powder and chemicals * -- airport security? did he get it on in nigeria? he should have been treated after them. those are the two critical questions. there are heightened security measures in place. we had a statement from secretary of pollock, last night. -- napolitano last night. the bomb-sniffing dogs and behavior condition officers. they look for indications of terrorism. host: the threat level is not going up. the threat level is a orange which is high but it is not going up.

what are your thoughts as to what's going through the obama administration? guest: they are looking at whether the color-coded to alert system should be revised. the threat level will not be raised for it right now, it is @ aren't which is the next highest level for the next highest level is red. it has been at this level since 2006. it is understandable that the level is not raised because there can be decreases and increases in certain procedures. you will see increased security measures which are appropriate. host: is the color-coded threat level more for the government so that everybody their nose how to proceed? is it more for the public so the public knows what the government

is doing? guest: that as part of the problem. it is unclear who is intended for. it is intended for both government and the average citizen. it is unclear, i would argue and to argu dfiid argue how useful . the main focus of the government should be what measures should be taken when these threats increase. there should be gradations among federal government and state and local governments. if something happens and york, does that mean it affects people in nebraska or kansas? there would need to be calibrations and the system and does with the interagency process is considering now. host: we are talking homeland security.

we have our guest for the next 40 minutes and if you want to get involved, the numbers are on your screen out of houston, texas, our line for republicans, go ahead. caller: good morning. i am a republican and i believe that you have to have an extensive security system. it seemed like it is too convenient and things keep happening in the world today to further take our freedoms. are you familiar with false swag terrorism?

obama said that if the epa is going to enforce the carbon emissions, that has to go hand- in-hand with terrorism. hguest: one of the problems that government officials face is a number of conspiracy theorists. they believe that the threat of terrorism is not real. that hobbles the government in its efforts to convince americans they should not live in fear but at the same time, they should take these threats -- seriously. there's a sense of complacency cents 9/11. there have been a number of homegrown plots. generally speaking, there has

not been a successful terror attack, which is a good thing. because those plots of an episode, they have not been bunched together, it has led to a sense on the part of the public that the threat of terrorism is going away if there is one good thing about these plots, it is 2 _ for the average citizen that they should take these warnings from the government seriously. terrorism is a clear and present danger to the united states. host: you wrote an item for "the washington post"and you said it is more difficult for terrorists outside the united states to launch another attack by hijacking in airplane paor other things. you go on to say that the bad this is that the department of these targets has increased the appeal of shopping malls, sports

arenas, hotels, restaurants, bars, nightclubs, movie theaters, and other soft targets that remain relatively unprotected against terrorist attack. does this mean that in the future we will, in order to save, we will see more metal detectors at malls and grocery stores and restaurants? guest: it could mean that. it is unlikely on less there is a terror attack on one of these soft target. i wrote about the paradox of the soft target for the harder we make things, the more attractive it is for terrorists to go after shopping malls and restaurants and such. that said shopping centers are central to the american psyche. we americans are very reluctant

to institute these kinds of draconian measures in the absence of a terror attack. i hope we never have an attack on this front but we know that if there is one tomorrow, we will see these kinds of measures. host: our line for democrats from memphis, tennessee, go ahead. caller: i think security should be on the airlines. i don't think the united states would have the protocol to go to another country and do a proper inspection. that is what happens in these situations. the united states -- when you go to the airports in the united states, they do a great job as far as security. this gentleman was in another country and he came to the united states. i think the airlines will have to step up their protocol as far as inspections. i think it to be left up to the

airlines. i think they have more to lose than anybody if a terror attack happens. i think the onus should be on the airlines. we will either have to do that or we will have to stop letting people from other countries come to the united states. i of the united states wants to do that so they will have to start doing something as far as the airlines stepping up their security. guest: i disagree with that notion. people tend to forget that before 9/11, aviation security was the responsibility their lives. the screen as we have before 9/11 were airport contract employees. the reason for the creation of the tsa and the federalization of the work force, they work for the government now and how much security, it is because airlines are businesses. business is always put profit

ahead of the gelles print -- put profit ahead of anything else. there is less incentive for put in place these rather caused a security measures, given the economy. does the got responsibility of government and it should a parent -- it is the responsibility of government and it should be. they are taking over from the airlines checking passengers against watch less. the notion is that the government has not made all of its watch lists available to airlines for fear of compromise. airlines are inconsistent in how they use the terps watch list. -- the tower watch list. -- the terror watch list. it is the government's responsibility and they are doing it now. they have done a pretty good job

of it. i am also but the new person who will head tsa is confirmed by the senate. he cannot stop terrorist attacks but it is important to have a permanent person in place. host: will procedures get shared with other governments and if, for example, nigeria and the netherlands had this kind of information, they might have been able to prevent this man from getting on the plane? guest: the short answer is yes. we have information-sharing arrangements with governments around the world. the extent of the sharing of varies from country to country it depends upon our relationship with the country and the history of that country being able to give that information well. .

to be threats to the aviation. some people get drunk on flights and cause disturbances. people like that are on the no-fly list but they are not terrorists. all to be confirmed is that this fellow was known to have terror ties but the ties were considered to be so tenuous he was never look at as a real threat. now you have to look at whether

the no-fly list should be revised that it include everyone looked at connected to terrorism. >> if you are on the terror list, why wouldn't that automatically make you a candidate to be on the no-fly list. >> well, i think that's the way it should be but it's not. the no-fly list is for people deemed to be a threat to aviation. if you're a terrorist and never threatened aviation but mass transit or -- but you're not on the no-fly list and i think that's ridiculous. i think that will be changed by our government. host: san antonio, texas you're on the "washington journal" with us, welcome, robert. caller: good morning. i'm calling. i have a background of u.s. air force father who worked for the

national security agency in germany in the late 1970's and very much aware of security precautions taken to protect the country. it really surprises me that there are terror lists that are separate from the no-fly list. and that they don't seem to intertwine. you just mentioned, i think you put a person known for being drunk on flights on the no-fly list but this gentleman was on a terror list for having ties to a terror organization. it's almost insane that this is the case. i think a lot of people are waking up yesterday when this happened and finding this out and finding that this situation is something that really needs to be figured out. and it's quite shocking that after september 11 that this is still the case. guest: well said. as i said i think this policy should be reviewed and i think

it will be as a result of this incident. host: good morning you're on the republican's line. caller: good morning. my concern is the looseness of the obama administration with borders. we're very concerned about the mexican border with the drugs and cartels. my concern is the northern border along canada. i think it's very peculiar that muslims that are used to very warm climates are coming to detroit, coming to chicago, wisconsin and settling there and building mosques. my concern is that they might, the muslim terrorists might be coming over the canadian border into the united states and settling in detroit. and i think we might have on our -- on the platter there a trojan horse, and muslim terrorists coming into the united states there.

guest: first of all, as far as detroit. detroit has been a population center for arab-americans for decades, generations, and that's not a recent phenom. and of course let me quickly underscore the vast majority of arab americans and muslim americans are like the rest of us, they have absolutely nothing to do with terrorism and are as appalled by these incidents as anyone else but both the subject of the borders the mexican border and the northern border, both of them are -- there's a possibility for terror illses to exploit our border defenses and there's been considerable tightening along the southern border continued by the obama administration. relatively the efforts to intensify the northern borders as well. the north erin border is likely

less well-defended, in 1999 the turn of the millennium, october med, a syrian attempted to blow up lax and was coming from across the border of canada. host: on the front page of "the new york times", cash flows where the u.s. and mexico meet and they are awe talking about clamping down on banking and money laundering schemes. it means people are trying to find different ways of getting cash across the border. they say american shiments and scuttleling money laundering are key to crippling the cartel in mexico that have unleashed a wave of violence that has claimed more than 15,000 lives since president felipe took over. guest: the degree to which the drug cartels are wreaking havoc

in mexico is amazing. it's really a very serious problem and i think americans are dimly aware of this. mexico, it can be a controversial subject mexico being in danger of being a failed state. i know there are have been lots of security forces to beef you have security forces and president coldiron is to be commerneded for taking on the drug cartels but texas, california, other border states can have greater effects in the united states. if something is not done there. it's really a serious issue that we need to focus on. >> back to the phones and our conversation about national security with mr. ervin, our next call is from beaumont, texas. caller: good morning. i just wanted to make is a comment to mr. ervin. i think the government is doing

a wonderful job. i think they are doing everything that they possibly can when it comes to defeating the terrorists. but i had a concern. whenever there is an individual who is part of a terrorist group, and i know earlier the callers were talking about racial profiling and all of that. i came to an agreement that racial profiling is something that is necessary, because a lot of these terrorists, they are not on a list. they are not on the no-fly list or another list. a terror list. and these are individuals who are part of the terrorist group. so i think racial profileing is something that's a necessity when it comes to trying to combat the terrorists. but isn't it going to be, like,

a very difficult thing that y'all are going to have to deal with? host: thank you for your comments. the fact that al qaeda knows whether we admit it or not we all have in our mind what a terrorist looks like. arab-american or muslim male. but al qaeda has been placeing a premium on recruiting people who don't fit that stereotype. increasingly as i say we're seeing these homegrown terror types. an american citizen born in california and actually with jewish roots. there was an incident a few months or actually a year ago. this thing terrorism linked to the -- pakistani-americans whoen didn't fit typical profile. so terrorist trysts come in all

nationalities and incumbent upon us not to raise the profile not just because it is not pernicious but also because it doesn't always work. host: after the arrest of five northern virginiain' men. that i write that they regularly issue statement that is reject violence but after the arrest muslim leaders have been scrambling to fill what they describe as a gap in the connection with their young people. guest: that's a very helpful story in the postpartum this morning. this incident in northern virginia which was the focus of our attention until yesterday largely good news for you. good news because whatever these young men were planning did not and will not take place because of the discussing.

but their family members reported their concerns to the local muslim community, imams and in turn imams and the muslim organizations did what they are supposed to do and communicated with the authorities. that's what happened a number of young so mall i didn't -- that's right. the old ant dote for terrorism will have to come from those inside the muslim community. not i or the president. we don't have any credibility. but we need the vast scrort of muslims, law-abiding citizens to communicate to the kindly snort -- host: our next call for clark kent ervin comes from new jersey. colleen on the republican line. caller: thank you c-span for taking my call and thank you, very much for serving for your

service. it is greatly, greatly appreciated. especially here, i'm sure you know berk lynn county is within 7 miles of new york city. and we still duck when planes come come by. trust me. i wish people would understand that. there's an ear in my voice. because i follow the be on the lookout list and the one person that i really follow is the pilot, he has been spotted -- he was spot indeed 2005 near a navy base out in kern county two times and at least he's been spotted over the border in canada and in mexico, and he speaks spanish and looks american, because he was born in america. do you know anything about what

is going on or where his whereabouts are? >> i can't speak to this particular individual, but i can certainly talk to the larger point that you're making, and that is that citizens ultimately have to be the eyes and ears and -- -- guest: our law enforcement authorities have to be right every day 24-7 and that's a huge task. we have tens of thousands of police officers, f.b.i. agents, but still not enough to police a country of 300 million people with a huge number of targets. so the average citizen campaigning in new york city and washington, d.c., if you see something, say something. if you see something suspicious, it's your obligation to report it to authorities. host: next up, mastercard.

steven on our line for independents, go ahead. >> i just want to say how can you, i understand a carry-on but fur -- you might as well put everyone in the country in it because you really don't know who the terrorist is. it can be anybody. >> what would your thoughts be, steven, if for whatever reason your name turned occupy on a list and next time they pulled you aside and put you into custody. >> well, as soon as i get off this call, i'm shur he probably will. i'm not going to do anything wrong. but first of all, need stop lying to the people, stop getting so much government involved and kick off your martial law because we know that's what you're doing, that's what you should be talking about and all your fema

accounts. host: we're going to leave it there. do you want to respond to any of that? guest: uh, no. the e other than longer the terror watch list is the less useful it is. there are people who shouldn't be on it and people who are on it and shouldn't be. so it's a work in process. very difficult indeed but the longer the list is, the more difficult because as you said, can't but 300 americans and the trial location becomes a complex case itself etches -- host: those in connection with the 9/11 attacks including cleedcleed, that's going to be taking place some time in new york city. your thoughts on puting the trial in new york and the security concerns that will follow, making that decision?

caller: well, i have lots of comments, in new york city to do whatever there's no better police force in the country than new york city. that said, i think the city to try cleedcleed in civilian khalid sheikh mohammad in in civilian court. as i say. it's -- point two, there's no question. khalid sheikh mohammad is a very, very skilled person in propaganda and is going to use that flosm incite people in the united states and argue his point of view. if there's ever a reason to contest a military commission, it seems to be the reason is to

tocks i mean i think we're going to come to regret that decision very much. host: pittsburgh, pennsylvania, pat on our line for democrats, go ahead. caller: good morning. i wanted to ask. i'm glad the guy just talked about the trial. in new york. khalid sheikh mohammad, the blind sheik was tried there, and we were able a handle that. yauns why we can't show the world that we can handle terrorism. and my next point is ted kennedy was turned away on a no-fly list about five tiles. now how can you -- the problem is with credibility. i'm sure most of the people in that airport knew who ted kennedy was.

and i just -- you know, the credibility and also of the orange alerts and we had a discussion about that. host: well, the caller has raised a number of issues. guest: to take the ted kennedy example that underscores the point i made earlier. there are people who are on the list who shouldn't be and those who are and -- not on the list and should be. obviously there was a man named ted kennedy probably connected to -- there's a world of difference between the blinet sheik and khalid sheikh mohammad. he was the latter was the master mind of 9/11 and therefore an iconic figure, so for the reasons i said trying

him in new york host: next up is chandler, arizona. christine on our republican line. welcome to the "washington journal." caller: yes. thank you. first i think it's ironic that all the black people calling this morning are calling sailing they are for racial profiling. but the ma sod, we were attacked because of our support of israel and the palestinians. host: christine, do you have any evidence of that? caller: yes, look at the 9/11 commission reports. now it's they are writing bills right and left because they have a strangal hold on both parties of congress. host: we're going to leave it there. she is starting to go off the rail. on our line for independents. go ahead. caller: you can look at what motivated highjackers at american highjack.com. host: in o'needa our line for

democrats. caller: good morning. we're talking on the subject of hometown grill off here and all the things -- home homeland security we've learned we really haven't done no such secure this country. now i wonder if you're aware of executive order 12425 signed by your president last week that to me, we're going in the wrong direction. this executive order gives diplomatic immunity in this country. there can be nobody who questions what they do in the name of security for this country which threatens and i wonder how many of you are aware of this. 40eu7 are you aware of this order center guest: no. it's certainly not case of immunity now terrorism is a

very, very serious issue and these things undercut the government and counterit. host: the search depose on for osama bin laden. should he ever bal caught or killed, how is that going to affect the level of terrorist activity guest: well, i think certain is the case that if he were killed or captured tomorrow, it wouldn't necessarily mean an increase in people trying to make a statement indicate just that. on the other hand, becky is clearly public enemy number one. it is hugely important for the united states sonner rather than later to find him, to --

the inability to find him hampers our efforts. every day that goes by is deemed to be a loss by the united states in this ongoing propaganda war. host: from 2003 to 2004 from homeland security he is current thirty director of the as pen institute's homeland security member in aspen. and the wartime contracting commission on iraq and afghanistan. back to the phones, desoto, kansas. diana on our republican line, thank you for waiting. caller: thank you. mr. ervin, you seemed quite surprise that had a person who was on a terror list was not automatically on a no-fly list. i'm going to ask you was there a change in policy since you were in your position or do you

see this has a glitch or what do you think may have occurred here? guest: i wasn't surprised by it. i'm just making the point that most people would think the terror list and no-fly list are one and the same and i was saying one of the lessons we should take away from this is they should be one and the same and unless there's a big reason, anybody on any terror list ought to be on a no-fly list whether they are known to have been but it remains the case that there is a difference between the terror watch list and no-fly list and i think the two ought to be the same to a considerable degree. host: in the wake of what happened yesterday, the flight into detroit, what would you --

what should travelers trying to get home from christmas expect to see tomorrow when they start going to the airports? guest: well, i think they are going to see it today. increased armed police presence, tovep -- appraisal officers. as i said, these are people trained to distinguish between what might be an incendiary device and behavior officers, specially trained screeners who can look top and because of they may have terrorist attempts. i'm sure the tsa is doing everything possible now. one thing i should undercore score is what undersecretary napolitano underscored and that's that it is incumbent

upon passengers to do what they can. one of the lessons we learned from 9/11 is that passengers can be and ultimately must be their own last line of defense. we know in this instant yesterday that once passengers noticed that something was going wrong with this passenger, he was jumped immediately by a number of passengers. we need to take our own defense into our hands and beef up security force that is may or may not be present on the flight. one thoft things that wasn't reported is whether there were air marshals on the flight. i gather there wasn't one. we won't know whether there is -- whether they are or not, passengers need to be their own security by taking steps against someone who is perceived to be a threat. that's exactly what happened with this flight yesterday. host: is there reports of air marshals flying on

international plights? guest: one of the things we learned is there were not only 11 air marshals covering the country on 911 fen the exact number flying in the united states and bound for sove -- guest: but we also know we gist don't have enough air marshals to cover every flight or every flight of concern. so we need to beef up our air marshal ranks but also passengers need to be their own tomplee -- host: timothy in mobile, alabama. go ahead. caller: just a quick comment. i thought that osama bin laden was the master mind behind 9/11 and how do you register internal terrorism and -- on your list i saw a couple weeks

ago homeland security was apologizing for having say like the nation of islam on a security list or for investigating them. and then they were saying they weren't supposed to. and what keeps people from driving in and going to an airport from out of the country. thank you. guest: on the first point, osama bin laden is the head of al qaeda and the number one iconic terror leader, but khalid sheikh mohammad was the mastermind of 9/11 that's exactly right. this is a plot conceived that he brought to bin laden and bin laden ultimately fled. i don't know that the nation of islam is on any watch list. i don't believe that to be the sfofe -- host: our last call for clark kent comes from memphis, tennessee. larry on our democrats line, go ahead.

caller: good morning. i hope you let me express my opinion. what happened yesterday is fast propaganda. i really do meeve it. sfo the wheelchair snore keep on making fools of american people, these are the same people that bombed us on 9/11 host: larry, we're going to leave it there. thanks for the call. guest: i guess the the only thing eye'd say is what i said before. these conspiracy theoristser, it's a problem because every time it was believed there was a series it makes it hrt. host: we're going to take a short break. and when we come back we're going to open up the phones and find out your thoughts about the president and domestic policy priorities for 2010. we'll be right back.

host: we're going to be talking about domestic priorities for

the obama administration for 2010 for about the next half-hour. if you'd like to get involved until that conversation we'll show you the mubs in a minute. if you're calling outside the u.s. the number is 202-628-0184 and if you want to send us a message, journal@c-span.org. twitter.com/c-spanwj. in the washington post this morning, headline, taliban releases video of american soldier attack and it is said that is propaganda. they issue ad soldier jer of a u.s. soldier captured in

afghanistan the u.s. military condemned the tape and the decision to release it on christmas was cruel. private beau appears in the video wearing sun glasses and a u.s. military-style uniform including a military helmet. 4 egives his name and hometown and other personal details before saying he is a prisoner of war of the taliban. it is not clear when the video was made. also in the papers this morning, this from the philadelphia inquiror, a different look at the military life overseas. for troops, creativity is the theme, reported by the mcclatchy newspapers, thomas and nancy yousef a frequent guest here on the "washington journal." soldiers deployed thousands of miles from loved ones did thing on christmas day they wouldn't have at home, improvised making a christmas tree out of

communications equipment and had dinner including prime rib, shrimp cocktail and a cake in the shape and nearly the size of a christmas tree. after the sun went down and the ma'am moth spread of the food was removed the morale welfare and recreation club at camp phoenix cleared the dance floor and blasted hip-hop music until midnight. go ahead? caller: i was calling to make a comment. i think the president and the attorney general's creating a problem themselves, here we have this thing in nigeria or with this airline, and you know, it's starting up again. and we should be aware of what's going to happen. you know, they bomb the first towers and stuff in 1993, and now they are starting it up again.

and we need to look out for that. why are we bringing these people to the united states? it's starting up again, that's their first phase. thank you. host: we're talking about domestic and foreign policy priorities for the obama administration in 2010. this op-ed in this morning's "new york post." post partisan? quotations? not. he writes obama the outsider hasn't changed the way washington works. he's worked washington in a way only an outsider with no respect for the place would dare. consider his domestic health care reform after a year of working on it his progressive base is either profoundly disappointed with him or seethingly angry. his republican and conservative opponents are not only serious, they are 'em boldened and they

are disgusted with the whole spectacle. also in the papers this morning. this op-ed from ross who writes in "the new york times" this morning under the title "the obama way." obama baffled observers i suspect because he's an ideologue and pragmatist all at once. a doctrine narrow liberal who is always willing to cut a deal and grab for half the loaf. he has the policy preferences of a progressive bhogger but the governing style of a wheeler dealer. we expect our politicians principals to align more neatly with their approach to governing. our deal-making mackie vel are supposed to be self-conscious centrists. our ideological liberals and conservatives are supposed to be more concerned with being right than with being

ruthlessly effective. back to the phones, largo, florida. frank on our line for independents. your thoughts about the obama administration's priorities for 2010. either foreign or domestic. 12k3w4 good morning. thanks for taking my call. i think he's going down the wrong road with foreign policy especially with what was accomplish indeed copenhagen el seems to -- they did put a 27 tax on all signature in a tori and many of the attendees said it was to align us with a global governing system so i see the obama administration capitulating and these calls we tend to call conspiracy theorists, there's a fact around them.

an executive order granting immunity and the caller was right. and also six of the 10 9/11 commissioners have came out in the past couple of years saying that the spire investigation was a fraud and a cofferup. and i would have liked to have asked mr. ervin if he knew about operation north woods, the declassified joint chief of staffs paper that shows our government was more than willing in the 1960's to perform a false attack to get us into a war with cuba. host: you still with me? caller: yes, sir. host: in "the washington post" you mentioned copenhagen and they mentioned after hard in copenhagen and harder in the senate julian writes although many senators, especially and

the aftermath of the health debate it's clear that the the enacting -- is essential to delivering on the pledges that obama made to other world leaders. your thoughts on this. caller: cap and trade is nothing but a shell game and whatever treaty obama signs, yes, it does have to be ratified then approved by the senate. but he's trying to do an end run around that by to the tune of 5 1/2 pounds a day. they are trying to declare that have carbon mo knocks i'd may be a pollute. but carbon die ox i'd is not. this is all a scheme to tax what we have and to to tax

anyone making 250,000 or less. families making $250,000 or wills. he promise that had and all these extra taxes are coming in from the world bodies that we have no control over like when obama violates will to have by becomeing the chairman for the u.n. security council. he was gaveling that in. that's in complete violation of article one, section nine of the constitution. so we're going down the wrong rift and all because like ron paul said, we're not following the constitution. host: david on the line for republicans out of chester brook. go ahead. caller: thank you. i think president obama is creating some kind of high expectation from people because of his capacity to speak well. and his i had yomatic expressions are quite

impressive, and he's bringing high expectations to those who bought this for him. so high expectations under the muslim world, and i don't think to which match his actions, and this can create a situation, because some stations are very high. and it tomas seems that he is more inspired than things on pace with cooperation with everyone. and i think in the short run, he will win, obviously a lot of issues. but in the long run, i think it will maybe boomer rang against him. and i wish him if best. he is my president. but i think that we will see the result definitely until 2010. and i am predicting that it will be one -- he will be a one-term president. host: specifically, david, what should his priorities be in

2010? >> his president would be to find a realistic way to work with the republicans and great and for him to surnt his national agenda and international agenda to the left in his party, i think it's going to work against him and it's not going to help the majority of the american people. host: louise on our line for democrats, out of chicago, your thoughts on the the president's foreign and domestic policies, what they should be in 2010. caller: thank you under having me. i'm just retire indeed february and living here in chicago. i can see exactly what's going on in the country, because we have these problems of nobody's in charge of making sure that the nashedse and businesses are

up and going. we have situations on the south side as everyone knows where there are no jobs and the kids are killing each other, but you can walk down our streets going downtown and everyone from somewhere else owns the business. so it makes you wonder who is in charge of our domestic snoil no one is in charge of making sure that american citizens are working and owning businesses. it seems like everybody from everywhere else own as business somewhere down here. but where are the businesses for the neighborhoods and the people who were born here? host: sorry about that. i thought you had finished your thought. we've got a tweet here from lynette. she writes the country would be better off if the president, senate and congress would just take next year off. that's unlikely. next up is clifton heights, pennsylvania, abdul on our line for independents.

about barack grok's foreign policies and -- caller: i forgot what the topic was. host: foreign policy priorities. caller: for 2010. i think that my comments are that it's somewhat of a smoke screen for the things that are being allowed to happen to americans that are practicing islam and being targeted on our own american soil to kind of allow them to move forward with certain plans and i dueled mention earlier executive order tore allow interpool immunity to go about bringing foreigners over here so they can take up arms and making this a police thing. i don't understand why everyone is so busy focusing on muslim terrorism when the real

terrorist is the american government, and that's all i got to say. host: in the philadelphia inquiror this morning this from the associated press. iran open to nuclear swamp have i hay turkey. they write out of the foreign minister paid? iran's latest counteroffer, aimed at thwarting its ability to produce atomic weapons, the u.s. aims to reduce iran's stock pile of low-enriched concerns that the etch that the -- under the proposal, it would be shipped to france and russia for more highly enriched that are not -- host: sharon, what's on your

mind this morning? caller: i noticed that a lot of our democrats in the last election were for obama and i notice the republican party they seem to be the party of no. they don't want anything to change, yet they don't allow this president and give him any support to change to -- host: go. caller: i'm very saddened about the republican party, because i've always been republican for the past, oh, gosh, since i was in my early 20's. but i do believe that our country is in a change. i do believe that obama is doing a great job in dealing with what and in terms of what he has to deal with. i just hope that our republican -- all of the republican leaders will work with him in

this next term, in terms of 2010 and we'll get into the second part of his election. i'm just saddened with the republican party, because they won't help him. he's willing to reach out. they refuse to work with him. and they fofe let's give obama a chance. and let the republican party work with him rather than against him. host: all right. sharon, thanks for your call. our next call is from ben in conroe, texas. good morning, ben, you're on the democrats line. caller: good morning. this is ben. host: go ahead, ben. caller: like the last woman the republican party don't do nothing. when people talk about taking away rights, can you talk about the terry schiavo's case,

didn't the wife that was brain damaged and the republican party is for rich and rich only and poor trash, they going to get y'all in the end. that's the only thing i got to say, sir. host: in the national section of "the new york times" this morning, this political memo by adam in a gurty. the health care debates -- it's not just that the left wing of the party thinks that its centrists hold too much sway and when faced with pressure from the right, it is also this white house stocked as it is with insiders, people whose view of politics is shaped by the compromises innarnte legislateing. it's made up largely of outsiders in the law making process who are asking why they should accept politics as

usual. it goes on to say that as much as mr. obama presented himself as an outsider during the campaign, a lesson of this battle is that this is a president who would rather work within the system to seek -- rather work within the system than seek to end it. he's not the ideologue ready to stage a symbolic fight likely to end in defeat. in dealing with the rules of the senate and preparing to accept compromise in search of the larger goal. for the most part democrats on capitol hill have stuck with him. you can read more of that political memo by adam in a gurty in this morning's "new york times," and you can find that online or in hard quick points. caller: quick points related to iraq and afghanistan.

that's another quagmire like vietnam, we got to get out of there. we're bankrupting our country and few people are declaring war for the masses. 9/11 was a criminal act. the second thing is the economy . i have a -- with the president you can see a letter from him to me if you google -- h 77.com and now i have an interview i did and i mentioned c-span in it where i describe a whole new form of global and census economy that requires no risk for business yet offers unlimited opportunities to both businesses and individuals. it's just a question of leanching how to think more creatively and interact with the existing technology and with each other in a caring, sharing way. so there is a lot of hope on the horizon for the economy.

host: next up is connie the in omar, west virginia. go i a head. caller: hello. host: hello. caller: hello. host: connie, what are your thoughts about what the president's domestic and/or foreign policies should be in 2010? caller: sir, i am really upset about these -- the congress, the way they are handling this. host: the way they are handling what? caller: all of the health insurances and think, like that and their doctors. an i sympathy we need to be free. i think people -- i think what's happening is people don't even realize it. but it's older people and people who have lived under communist rule and things. there's a communist rule. that's what i think. host: connie, how do you feel

like your freedoms have been lost over the last couple of years? why do you feel like that? caller: well, because they are making all the decisions. the people are not making the decisions. we're having to thereon people that are listening to someone that is trying to say, oh, you have to take this or you're going to be fine, you're going to go to jail. host: who are they and what are they telling you that you have to take? caller: this new law. they are coming up with a health law. you're going to be put in jail if you don't pay this and close all our companies and the companies because they can't afford to pay health care. so what are you going to do? close down and what's going to happen next? to have on and on. stop working. and all these people are going to go to jail what are they going to do with all these people.

host: so if you're -- caller: they are going feed you and take care of you in jail. you might as well take your family and friends to jail so everyone can just go to jail and get health care. host: we're going to have to start building a lot more jails. thomas on our line for democrats out of hot springs, arkansas, go ahead. >> yes. i've been watching this and i see the way he acted. and have been doing it for two years. even with republicans in charge. an ip think we got too many old republicans and old democrats in the offices. i think we ought to replace them and this health care, if they are going to fine you $1,000 just because you don't have it. well, [coughing]

host: bless you. caller: and they ain't got no job, how are they going to pay for it? host: ok. thank you for your call. in this morning's paper sheryl crow says i'll ride herd on obama. out of reno, she says cheryl crow and other wild horse advocates have called on obama and harry treed block a roundup of mustangs set to begin monday in nevada. the request came after a federal judge upheld al government roundup in the cal co-mountains -- complex. until congress decides how to manage our living legends of the west. the usually pro democratic crowe said on thursday that -- in a statement released by the horse advocate group cloud foundation. back on the phones, minneapolis

on our line for independents. good morning. minneapolis? caller: yes. now i can hear you. host: go ahead. caller: first let me thank you for c-span. i think president obama ought to have secretary of state clinton focus on problems between israel and the palestinians so we can go ahead and debunk this idea that if there was some kind of a deal that if the palestinians got a state that terrorism would vanish into thin air, which it's not going to. that's not what this is really all about. i don't think that we can have connelly in the had? name. senate anymore. we've become so polarized in this country that there's no compromise in either party. and i believe that well, just like there was a poll out not

that long ago where the tea party, which doesn't even exist actually polled higher than either the democratic or the republican parties. and then in a national poll, which is just beyond belief, but it actually happened, i believe we need to think about doing away with the two parties -- two-party system that we have in this country. host: so let me ask you, lee, a question, do you feel like the obama policies anything will be directed either by the democrats or republicans or independent tea partiers? caller: no. i don't believe it does. the president is paying a whole lot of attention to what the

general public is saying. i am afraid that mr. obama is seoully on the subsidiary of the left wing of this party. wildly left wing of his party. host: going to leave it there, lee. in minute happen -- host: lee, you with me? caller: yes, i am. host: go ahead. caller: ok. i was doing a lot of research yesterday, because i didn't have much to do. host: ok. caller: and if people would go to the youtube, they would understand why we're in the mess we're in. host: and what was it that you found on youtube that explains about the mess that we're in? caller: well, for one thing, people think they are going to get a good deal with this health thing.

and if you'll go to page 16 on -- and read the bill, h.r. 3200, you'll find out that people can't even -- they -- it will be illegal for them to even buy health care on their own. just a lot of other things. i went to hialeah and found out that -- went to hawaii and found out that the ambassador for kenya says he was born in mambasa kenya not hawaii. host: all right.

lee, we're going to leave it there. in "the washington post" this morning this item regarding govern mark warner. his quest to achieve in the senate, amy gardner writes a hugely popular former govern who came to politics after earning a fortune in the cell phone business, warner entered the the taking the national stage. taking to the national change of conservativetism and business know how that helped him win over virginia independents and republicans. but the freshman senator has found himself mainly on the sidelines as congress and president obama have pushed health care reform, spending, and energy measures, without much attention to building a center-based coalition. jeannine go ahead. caller: good morning.

host: what's on your mind this morning? caller: i wanted to make two points before actually asking the question about domestic and foreign policy for 2010. actually i'm going to criticize i guess the nearest post where they keep referring to our president as mr. obama instead of president obama and i saw that you just read mr. obama. but people pay attention they keep saying mr. obama and really should be addressed as president obama and my second disappoint if president obama was a constitutional lawyer so americans get your facts straight and realized and understand that our president is trying to re-establish and give credit back to our constitution. bush and cheney pretty much ripped it apart. he's actually trying to put it back together again and so give him his credit and pay attention that he is for the people. ok?

but the foreign policy priorities, i think they finish and the back part of making everybody happy. people, pay attention, if you don't have a job, you cannot afford it. which means it puts you in a category that you're either going to get a, medicare, or b, medicaid. it depends on your age. that is -- it's a no-brainer. i don't understand the problem. host: thanks jeannine. we're going to leave it there. matt on our line for independents. in brooklyn. good morning. caller: yes. i'm sorry. there's a delay. host: turn your radio or television down. caller: i apologize. first i want to say thank you for c-span and my pointer as i think president obama must focus on domestic policy seoully in the next couple of years. we've hired ourself ins foreign wars and that -- the -- this

idea that we're a global economy or a global society is i think a little bit of a farce in the long-term because people are not integrating. they want to be with their own -- not race but society, around i think it's time to start focusing on overall education and stop looking at when refuse want to -- caller: thank you for taking my call and thank you for c-span. before i go to my main point, ip wanted to say something about the caller before the one previous to mine. .

caller: you read long words out of columns. the caller that called, the ones that call on republicans for your and your part they are no more republican than the man in the mode. they are saying that to uphold the party line. i made the comment in the barber shop the other day -- i think obama, god bless him, i really don't think he likes the united states of america. i think he is anti-american.

by vicki has an agenda to completely bankrupt us -- i think he has an agenda to completely bankrupt us. gueshost: if the president did t like this country, why would he run for president? who would put themselves in the position of being president of united states if you did not have a love for this country? caller: that is the only way he can undermine it. by being president, he has the power to destroy this country. host: we will take a short break and when we come back, we will talk with the george washington university professor about political ideologies. , isms 101 right after this break.

>> now available, the cspan book, "abraham lincoln, great american historians on our 16th president." it is if you need t -- -- is a unique perspective on abraham lincoln and his relevance it is in hardcover at your favorite book seller. it is also in digital audio to listen to any time, available where digital audio downloads are sold. learn more at c-span.org/lincoln book.

>> he has created the social networking site blackplanet.com. he talks about his current studies at harvard and what is ahead on cspan's q&a. >> "washington journal" continues. host: and a barrel -- henry barrel is a professor. -- farrell. let's start with different definition so we have an understanding of what it is that we're talking about. let's start with socialism. that has been a word that has been tossed around. it started this summer with the

various tea parties and people talking about health care reform and calling the president a socialist. from your perspective as a political science professor, what is socialism? guest: is usually thought of as the state have a large stake in the economy. you see and socialist countries traditionally like the state owning big mining companies, big growth companies, other companies like that and controlling the commanding heights of the economy, the big, powerful parts of the economy which tried things. host: another word that got a lot of use the last couple of months is fascism. guest: fascism is something that political scientists disagree on very the most usual definition of fascism talk about this as involving the heavy use of the state for its authoritarian purposes. typically, with the economy remaining relatively free.

on the one hand you see some of authoritarian power where they round up people in the middle of the night and on the other hand you also see big business and enterprises doing reasonably well and frequently having supported fascist regimes like in italy and in germany during the 1930's. host: during the gathering of the tea parties and what not, it was not uncommon for critics of the president to call him a socialist and a fascist. is that possible to be both? guest: i don't think so. they have similarities where you see the state playing an important role in ideology. they are pretty incompatible. if you look at the classic vegetarian into the 1930's, among the first people they rounded up for the socialists, the communists and the social democrats. if you read adolph hitler's

book, mein kampf, he ranted about the jews but he also rented about the left. fascism is a corrupted form of patriotism in that the state does a whole lot of things but this is done in the name of the nation. it is a form of extra and hyper- nationalism attached to a removal of civil liberties. host: is it possible for socialism or socialism -- or fascism to operate within the parameters that are set up by american-style democracy? guest: i think it is extremely difficult. you saw a few a long back in louisiana who was somebody -- you sawhuey long but it is

extremely difficult. because of things which are being described as socialist or fascist today do not come from political scientists. host: we're talking with henry farrell, about political science. our first call comes from mike on our line for republicans out of los angeles, california, go ahead. caller: as a social studies teacher, i tell my students that

the elite liberal media [unintelligible] i would like to know your perspective on this. guest: this is remote from the discussion of socialism and fascism. we see different takes on this. the take the left wing would be that there are a lot of reporters that tend to be liberal but are employed by big news corporations who have bone -- their own financial interests which are reflected in the reporting period people on the right to and to focus on -- tends to focus on the ideological leanings of news people. there is a lot of work which is done on media bias. this is a hotly contested area among political scientists.

my impression is that very often the confusion that people -- the conclusions that people reach are informed by the cut of misconceptions they had when i went in. you can make a case for either point of view in that argument. host: 12 mark isms' we want to throw in. -- two more isms' we want to throw in. how does all of thi square with you? > guest: you have to go back to history and look at the people

who were marxists back in the 19th century and they expected that history would end them victor on a platter. they thought capitalism would make workers more miserable and sooner or later the workers would rise up. karl marx was very unclear about this. he thought there would be -- it could be interpreted as an saying there would be an armed rebellion or he could take over by democratic means. you saw a bunch of people look for other ways of doing things. in russia, you saw lenin and his followers advocating that we needed to have the communist party to have a small wing of special people who would take over control of the state and bring russia into socialism and communism whether they liked it or not. that worked out unhappily for all involved as millions of people who died in the great

terror. the upshot of that is that to saw stalin who was a brutal person taking some of those methodologies and it deals and taking an even further. host: next up is long island, n.y., on airline for democrats. caller: it is confusing when you look at the people who practice their political ideologies and when you look at the way the idea adelgids were written. we confuse fascism and communism and socialism. we have to remember that italian fascism was not the same as german nazism which was a spinoff of fascism. many things that were practiced by the nazis were not practiced by the fascists. the ideas were also very different for the fascist did not have a "mein kampf."

you also have to look at the united states. we do in practice our democratic principle perfectly, either. our foreign-policy -- we will use you and regulations against iraq for them by letting things and we will not use that against the right wing of the israeli nation when they colonize against the international requirements for them to stay out of the west bank. it is very hypocritical on how we practice our own politics. we have to look at the way certain things were written like communism and how it was supposed to benefit people and we have to look at how it was mis-practiced in places like russia. people get confused in this country as far as the terms. guest: there is something to that.

the communists and socialists believed genuinely that they were going to usher in a new utopian freedom. they also used an extremely brutal message to get that hat. on the one hand, there is nothing but says but the left is completely disqualified from offering good ideas appeared on the other hand, it is also true that there are not many people on the left or advocating the kinds of extra measures which lenin and other people advocated in the early 20th century. you saw a whole bunch of people splitting off and founding social democratic parties in europe which sought to achieve some of the same things for working people but wanted to achieve them through democratic means. this was a much healthier set of developments and healthier set of ideas which, i think, have proven better during history and

certainly has engaged with right-wing christian democracy in europe and other ideas here. host: neo conservative -- what are your thoughts and the decorative between a new conservative and your run-of- the-mill conservative? guest: is a very tough question. the families of new conservatives are very poorly combined -- defined. we saw a bunch of people who were originally associated with the democratic party. some of them were associated with various further left groups during the 1950's and 1960's and began to get tired and angry with the left and moves toward the right during the 1970's. originally, there were much more concerned with domestic policy

than with foreign policy. over time, this caucus approach to foreign policy took over to some extent and converted these people to some very strong beliefs and foreign policy and the inability of the democratic party to confront evil and the world as they saw it. host: so they are like conservatives on steroids? guest: a little but you see the of conservatives who distrust regular conservatives. like everything else, there are different points of view it depends on which point of view you want to take host: henry farrell is a professor of political science at georgetown university and has a ph.d. from georgetown university. our next call comes from mike

and rockville center, n.y.. caller: thank you for taking my phone call. we are reviewing political ideology across a broad spectrum. this is a result of whether or not these ideas can be waived into foreign policy and domestic policy successfully. they become like a four legs to a table they become all part of one pair ort of one. this administration has had difficulty having one ideology that serves well in chicago but not the rest of the country. the president is a likable man and an admirable person, he is very short terms of experience. he was state senator for one term and failed to complete that turnberry was in the united states senate for term and failed to complete that term and

he has had absolutely no experience in corporate or municipal affairs as executive position. when it relates back to political ideologies, the ability to coherently link, whether you want to discuss conservatives or socialism or whatever, the ability to promote those ideologies is strictly dependent upon the ability to weave them into coherent foreign and domestic policies. on that front, this president has failed to grasp that. guest: i think that is a reasonable and co hearing criticism of -- coherent criticism of him. the test here will be how he has done in two years or in four years or six years. we can only ben really figure out what the obama doctrine was.

as you say, ideology -- everyone comes into politics with ideology. all of our ideologies and to get blunted in the practicalities of day-to-day bargaining with the other side of other people3 . it is an interesting judgment call as to what the obama approach to things will be, whether or not you might describe it and believe that he is influenced by his time in chicago. i also believe he is influenced by his extensive experience as a legal scholar working with the university of chicago and elsewhere. you might see other aspects of his experience playing into the kinds of policies that he will have. i think you're absolutely right, is unique experience, he will have important consequences for

what kind of things he does and does not do, how he sees the world. one interesting way you can come to his defense would be to say that he has an unusual experience in the outside world for a u.s. president and has an unusual experience as to help other people in other parts of the world see the u.s. i think that is reflected in the ways in which he deals with others and foreign policies. host: here is a twittered the message. he says fascism is telling a bar owner that he cannot allow smoking on his property. guest: if that is true, then fascism is pretty universal. some people say that fascism is everywhere and every time somebody says something that annoys you are tells you that the rules are one way or another i think we're all living

in a fascist dictatorship, if that is the case. people find other people a knowing and their roles and annoying. -- rules annoying. host: progressives and liberals are other definitions. what is the difference between a progressive and a liberal? i know guest: victor is that much difference. a progressive is somebody who sees liberalism as having two

problems. first, it has gotten bad association in the american public. few people want to describe themselves as liberal. secondly, it has been associated with somebody who is always willing to accommodate the other side, who was always willing to make effort in order to come to sort of a bargain that everyone can live with. progressives see themselves as not having a ideological values which are different from liberals but as being more assertive about those values i also think they are fundamentally trying to engage re-breading exercise. -- re-branding exercise. host: liberal has become a pejorative term and people would rather identify themselves as progressives? guest: that is exactly right.

caller: i came to the united states from russia. what i see happening right now is increasing the role of state in the economy of the country. this is turning to social democracy as they have in europe or socialism -- a type of socialism they had in the old soviet union. i find it alarming when they say they want to find people who do not of health insurance. that is an authoritarian type of scenario. i really don't like the way this government is going.

all of this does not seem quite right. host: what would you say was your political philosophy before it came to the united states and has it changed? guestcaller: it has moved. when i came here i knew that socialism was wrong. come if i can use such a worker of i became a republican but i was disappointed in the way president bush managed the country. right now, there is a swing to another extreme. and guest: you can certainly argue that we are seeing a potential swing back in terms of the state playing a somewhat larger role than it has in the pass.

that is something that has been true during the emergency measures of last 50 months where you saw the state temporarily taking significant stakes in large u.s. companies. i would be skeptical that this is not likely to turn into something like the soviet union or european social democracy. one thing that people forget is that history matters and when we see and go back 30 or 40 years, we see there was a lot more state involvement in the economy event that there was now. richard nixon temporarily imposed price controls during his administration and also fought to introduce universal health care. richard nixon has been accused of being many things by his allies and enemies but nobody has ever accused him of being a socialist or more access. host: 05, california, you are next.

caller: i hope everybody had a merry christmas yesterday. professor, i am a longtime student of politics. i had a fellowship at the school of communications at usc. i go back and forth between extra in disagreement and some agreement with you. the agreement part is your phrase "girls tried to re-brand them selves as progressives." what is progress of about being a socialist? i agreed with the description of obama earlier. my main point of disagreement is that i just understand this --

you went back to nazi germany, that was the national socialist party of the left. r)ethe nazis a limited other socialists in a political power push parenth. there were in direct competition with the bolsheviks and others. the nazis were of the left. the direction of this country is very much now socialist. in the european sense which is very frightening. as a libertarian conservative, i would agree with earlier callers who were talking about ron paul -- host: you have given us a lot to work with.

guest: i would respectfully disagree. you are absolutely right and one thing which is the nazi party, the name is national socialism, but the key thing to remember about national socialism is that they party was much more important than socialism. they sought to try to glorify the nation and this idea of the volks, which is the german people and they fought on the basis of this to create a state where socialism never had a chance because you had business planning an extremely important businesses supported the nazi party. you also saw the conservatives not always supported the nazi party but helping to engineer the constitutional crisis which

allowed the nazis to take power. i think the social part is part of the nazi title but the extra hostility that they had toward the left and the waiter policies worked out in terms of how they govern germany apart from the holocaust and all the horrible things is so did with that don't really bear all that much resemblance to socialism and except insofar as they involve a much greater role in the state. host: our last call comes from west palm beach, fla., on airlines for republicans. caller: is it conceivable that a socialist state could move towards a democratic ideology and on the other side a purely democratic state could make

movement toward a socialistic state? the soviet union would be an example. they were somewhat of a quasi- socialist state. it dissolved and has moved toward a close eye-democratic state. guest: there is something to that. this is something that political scientists debate. you see regime change is happening you do not see a smart writer of the libertarians in the late 1940's and 1950's who predicted that you will see a democratic states becoming socialist dictatorships effectively through a process of benign neglect as this day. took more and more of control

the economy, you see socialism prevent i don't think you are seeing the same way of that happening now. i think we have seen socialist state becoming more democratic. that has happened in eastern europe and elsewhere. we see china where socialism has crept out of the economy and there isn't that much of a pure socialist approach that there yesterday. you see that happening without any real democracy coming into being, either. host: professor henry farrell, thank you for coming on the program. it is written about how the obamas are spending their vacation in her eye -- spending their vacation in hawaii. we will talk more about the

president and their retreat after this break thisken walsh of "u.s. news and world report." >> in the mid-1990s, "newsweek" named omar wasow one of the most influential people in cyberspace. sunday night, he talks about his current studies at harvard and what÷head on cspan's "q&a." >> now available, the cspan

book, "abraham lincoln." it is a unique, contemporaries perspective on life and from $56, a journalist, and writers. it is from lincoln's early years to his years in the white house and its relevance today. you can get it at your favorite bookstore -- bookseller. learn more at c-span.orge&ç/ lincoln book. host: ken walsh is here to talk to us about the president and his retreat. what can you tell us about president obama -- is obvious why a person would want to go to hawaii. get into that mind set of taking off in air force one and

flying to the 50 of state for a couple of days? guest: he has very deep roots in hawaii. he was raised their partly by his grandparents. he went to school there is a teenager. he went to a school for the best students in hawaii. he has lots of friends there. his sister maya lives there with his family. over the years, the president struggled so hard to get to the white house and they are almost desperate to get away from the place. he went to hawaii and has gone there for many years, u.s. last year before he had taken office, the white house tells us it will be seclusion for obama and his family. . they will stay the same rented house he stayed at last year. he did break. every person does and that is

what he is looking for. host: in may of 2005, you wrote this piece for "u.s. news.com" and you write that every president had a highway where they went to find a bit of peace. these retreats are where a momentous decisions have been made including president bush said the early course of the war and terrorism and franklin roosevelt deciding to proceed with the development of the atomic bomb. what do they find in these retreats that allows them to make these kind of decisions that they do not have the white house? guest: it is an escape from the routines and the everyday and the pressures. a president can never be completely a way from the job. if there is a crisis, he has to deal with it. president obama, as all presidents have, had daily briefings on national security and on intelligence.

and the economy. it frees up their minds to think about other things. that has happened all along. the president looks for ways to break out of the bubble. in obama's case in hawaii, is such a different atmosphere. those of us in the press corps always wonder where a president will go on vacation. in obama's case, in the winter, after washington with a foot and a half of snow, hawaii is not a tough choice. host: with -- you being here but how was it you missed the trip to hawaii this year? guest: we took them that there were that there would not be any decisions made there that he is intending. part of it is the austerity we are in in the media.

it is so expensive to travel with the president. your reporters trouble and if your costs for everybody else because it is prorated. this will give me the opportunity to talk to senior white house officials in washington when the president is away and gives them time to be more contemplative host: what sort of mechanisms are put in place when the president travels regardless of the president is when he travels to his retreat so that he can handle situations like this situation with the airliner that landed in detroit yesterday? guest: there's always a senior national security adviser traveling with the president. there's also a senior domestic adviser the troubles with the president and a press person par there are communications at the white house where he could have a secure communications connection.

they have to re-do they get away house to be able to stay in touch produces, and now. i do not have any doubt that he will be able to communicate with whomever he needs to, including his own staff, from hawaii. host: we are talking areken walshwith ken walsh. you wrote in the article we referred to earlier about the retreat of various presidents. you wrote about washington and jefferson, saying they got away

to their virginia plantation's four weeks at a time. abraham lincoln lived at the soldiers home, a resident for injured union troops during the civil war and four 1/4 of his presidency, committed 3 miles to the white house. every summer from 1902-1908, theodore roosevelt moved the functions of the executive branch to his family estate at sagamore hill, new york. these were different times. what was it that these presidents were trying to get away from and how was it that they were able to leave for such an extended period of time. ? guest: in addition to the president's you mentioned, john adams, our second president, went to his home in quincy, mass. for eight months in 1799. that is lost and the president had been away. our presidents get criticized for goofing off for being away from washington for too long. president bush, the sun, the

43rd president, had that criticism money went to his ranch in texas john adams set the record. that is a long time ago he felt that when congress was not in session there was no reason for him to be in washington. during that time, he almost lost control of his foreign policy because there were people in his cabinet who disagree with his position and they were trying to push for war with france. he had to come back and pull that back. presidents have felt a strong need to get away from an abnormal expert at the white house but to find some normalcy in their own lives however they define it. for washington and jefferson, they considered their plig plantations because they considered themselves as farmers, washington consider agriculture a gift from the divine-)ñ as the top of the ladr

of occupations. it serves society and was rewarded for individual. he always considered himself may be a plantation owner and former. he was a slave owner which is part of our history that we cringe that. it shows how the people have felt the white house is such an abnormal place that they need to get away from it. that was wrecked in the very beginning from washington all the way to president obama host: our first call comes from bad numbers, louisiana, on our ally for democrats. caller: why does anyone begrudge any president of human pleasure of going on vacation? we, the voters, work many hours and we expect weekends off or vacations for the president does not have that luxury. why don't we give him a break? guest: we are in such a polarized world now and some

criticisms that obama keeps getting, president bush had to deal with for eight years. he was at his ranch in texas for 490 days out of his eight-year presidency. that sounds like a long time. i think most americans agree with the caller that they are very forgiving and understanding of a president needing to get away. they know it is such a grueling job. presidents seem to age dramatically. obama is experiencing this already. it is less than a year since he has been in office and he is already looking grey. if president go away and look like they are insensitive when people have problems with the recession or economic problems. president barack obama

understands this. he delayed his departure so that he could preside over the senate passage of health-care par. host: our next call is on our lives republicans out of new york city. caller: i think it is important for a president to get away so he can reflect on everything without the influence of others around him and also without the pressures that are confronting him every day at his door through his secretary and such. he goes away and gets to relax and he gets to think. thinking is a more effective tool in solving problems. guest: presidents are also -- often asked what books they are taking with them? you always get a list of books.

president barack obama and president clinton also did the same thing. stack they took stacks of books with them on vacation. they did try to read them. we don't know yet what books president obama has taken. it would be nice to be took a few of mine. i think president bush, father and son, it was maybe private and family time. each president has to define his own approach to getting away from the job for rest and relaxation. i think you will find this idea of whether a president can think better -- most presidents think they can. they do not have constant meetings ande interruptions anda committee connect a little bit more with the roots and the things that got into the white house in the first place. host: our next call is from our city, california.

it helps if i pressed the button. caller: if someone is adopted by the morals of the poorhouse and if you believe and ebenezer scrooge and getting much-needed health care that deserts and the people of america believe in the two party systems, what does that leave the mound with a good book? -- the man with a good book? host: let's move onto airline for democrats. caller: good morning. i was wondering why would the president go back to?

allhawaii? he spent time there any has a sister that lives there but he went back to his homeland because he was born there. i was wondering if he believes that he was not a citizen of the united states because he actually was not born on hawaii but maybe on the continent of africa. guest: i did say that he has gone to school there. he had very strong roots there and his family live there and his sister live there are there's no doubt he has considered hawaii on for much of his life. i have looked into this as have many of my colleagues and i do not think there is any doubt that he was born in the united states. i don't think the so-called

birthers are accurate in saying that he was born outside the united states and is an illegitimate president. i do not really buy that issue. i think there has been plenty of evidence that he was born in hawaii when it was a state. i think that is a misunderstanding that people have about where he was born. host: do you know holds the record for number of days away from the white house? guest: if you exclude camp david and i tend to do that because that is an institutional retreat. i think a president would get away from a weekend getaway. going away for vacation, many people think it is president bush, the 43rd president, who was always for over 400 days during his presidency.

if you pro rated, lyndon johnson was a way for 460 days to his ranch in texas in five years. if you extrapolate that, he would have been away more than president bush praised by numerical days, president bush was a way more. franklin roosevelt, who was president for 12 years and passed away at the beginning of his fourth term, he was at his high." for about 500 days. people tend to forget this. in not only wenth home to hyde park more than president bush went to his ranch in texas, he also went to warm springs, ga. which is the retreat he went to for the treatment of polio. if you put that in the number, those records are difficult to pin down, franklin rest of both -- franklin roosevelt was a way more than any other president. host: does he get the kind of

criticism other presidents have gotten. he went away during wartime. the second world war and he is going off to warm springs and hyde park. diddy get the kind of criticism that other presidents have gotten? guest: he got some of a bid not nearly as much as today. people in those days gave support to the president because of the endless world crises, particularly in the war years. it was not the same media scrutiny. present roosevelt could get away from the white house with having -- without having an entourage reporters. he was out on a yacht or a boat or a destroyer or a battleship sometimes for days at a time, relaxing and no one knew about it because he did not have to tell anybody and the media was not there to report it. it was a whole different world then. the other quick point -- he went

to meet winston churchill in casablanca to plan out the endgame of world war two in 1943. he got away from washington secretly. the reporters did not go with them. he traveled all the way to casablanca and then they were told he was there. it gives you an indication of how things were different then. host: let's go back to a telephone person. . caller: everybody is due a vacation and i just got back of mind. bñ÷if the president is going to hawaii and has rented this house which is $4,000 per night and he has rented the house on either side of him for family to live in, is this normal tly , to cost for a president to go on vacation? guest: the president does that

have an easily protected home of his own. he has a home in chicago but is much more difficult to provide the security and protection and is much more disruptive to people in chicago to have the president there. plus, he is going home to his regret it appear to be more expensive but if present reagan could go to california to his ranch, he owned a ranch, in recent years, most of our presidents have had their own states. they have had their own place to go to except bill clinton. neither does barack obama accept the house in chicago. the cost is higher. the cost for air force one to fly to hawaii is higher. people have to understand that this is president barack obama's longtime home. whether the costs are too high,

early people to judge for themselves. it is very expensive to fly air force one and to provide security out there. at the same time, it is genuinely his home for many years. there is another reason why he should go there in his own mind. host: lyndon johnson had a ranch. ronald reagan had a ranch. george bush i and ii had them and kennedy had no england. how much of the cost of going to this $4,000 per night condominium is picked up by them and how much is picked up by the government? guest: they have not clarified how this funding question will work. certainly, i think we all expect in the press corps that obama will pay for his own brand.

either he will least the house of his own pocket and pay for the family at whatever rate they have. the communications and transportation will be picked up by the taxpayer. i don't think that people can argue that the taxpayer should pay for the actual rental. he has middle of my from his books or adopt it will be a problem paying the tab. host: our line for independence is next, go ahead. caller: i am from new york. "the new york post" which leans to the right, they had a

headline and article -- in their article. i don't think we should begrudge this president the kind of locations and things that other presidents have had. i am glad that you said that the president does not have an estate like many of the presidents who were more wealthy and affluent when they came into office and when they left office. i'8ñ glad you mentioned that. because this president has aged quite a bit this year, it has not even been a full year until next month, that with all the overwhelming things he has had to deal with coming into office, that he really does need this time away? you have to have time to reflect and get your head together. that is what i want our president to do. i don't care who the president is but especially this present because he has so much to deal with. guest: i interviewed president barack obama a few weeks ago and i talked about some of this with them. he talked about his age and the

idea that assumes he took off, he was dealing with this incredible number of crises. it was more than is that generally happens to a president. he was dropped into the office. he had the financial system that appeared to be collapsing. he had problems with the mortgage industry. he had the unemployment rate going up. two wars and polarization in the country, so he was really dealing with an enormous number of crises. he did not really have a breather. in fairness, whether you like this policies or not, as a person, you what the president to be at the top of his game and a president needs to get away. that is what this vacation is all about. in somelv ways, the staff needa vacation more than him. in these eight -- he seems to be very resilient entire last person the staff appears to me to be very tired. they need a break and they are taking a break that is what they

are all trying to do. there's no doubt the president needs that 2 per that is why they have announced in advance not to expect a lot of news from this vacation. do not expect him to try to make any decisions while he is there because unless he is forced a crisis. as we have seen, you have had this airline question about whether there was a terrorist attack on this flight from york to detroit he has to deal with that today. i am sure he is having briefings on this now. maybe he thought he would be at the beach this morning. it is not working out that way. host: more about the vacation palace. we look at more pictures of the president and first lady one- acre property includes many plams p blowing -- alms blowing

in the wind. back to the funds, this time we this time we get jen on the independent line from madison, neb. apparenon airlines for independent. i am karen but most of got screwed up on the telephone. host: what is your question? caller: i enjoy cspan and i was listening to the professor and now i am listening to the gentleman on now. i can't say where every president needs to get away. i am not against that. this president has gotten away quite a few times.

he takes his family with him. !i have never)éñ picture in the paper of him actually sitting at the desk doing work. he listens to other people, what they want. did we get a right to vote on this health care? it is shoved down our throat. we want a president that we can be proud of and i thought we had one. he headed in the palm of his hand. he does not take that much into his nationality, for being the first black president, which he should probably be. a kind of let it all go and no.

guest: i think there is a long way to go here. looks like health care of some kind will pass in some way but it will be very messy and the game, too many divisions to make a go smoothly. we have many other things. this argument that the country is so polarized that it is hard for president obama as it was for president bush and before him president clinton and before him president bush sr. to get things done in a bipartisan way. the argument that the white house makes is that he has to push this way in order to get something done. he has a long way to go before he can assess how he has really done. that will be probably done the midterm elections next year host: how long will he be in hawaii? guest: