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but this is what it looked like number 21st 1989 -- the speaker. this was the first televised session for the british house of commons. joining us by telephone to talk about this is the comptroller of the bbc pollard -- the comptroller of the bbc tv. what do you see looking back at this 20 years? >> we now regard the decision to

televise this as a matter of inevitability. very few look back and think they did something remarkable. at that time, it was a momentous decision. it had been turned down many times, until eventually the decision was taken to go for it. >> the leadership at that time -- what was its position? emma margaret thatcher was >> margaret thatcher was against televising the house of commons. they thought it would turn it into something quite different. the vote was taken, despite her influence. >> there was an 18 month trial period. >> there was a long period after

the vote before televising actually started. when it started, it was a 12 month trial period. then we could change anything we asked for. it always comes in by way of what is called the trial period. you test the water. >> since the house of commons went on television, it has been seen every sunday night here on c-span. my question to you is who sees it in great britain? >> there are two kinds of audiences. it is watched very widely and is on almost every tv channel. it gets a very big audience.

people do want to watch it. that is what on bbc parliament. very often it is retired people watching in the daytime. there is an audience in the offices. people go to see debates. people tap into it by watching it on television or on line. >> what people see here is a very small portion of what you do. >> that is right. it is different for the west. it does show the nature of parliamentary debate and the way the two outside line up against each other and face off.

it is very different from most of the european parliament's where a speaker might go to a podium and read a speech. usually it is a small number of people. the house of commons as a very different style. >> here in the u.s., the house of representatives went on television before the united states senate. some said it was because the house was on television that the senate finally went on television. in your case, the house of lords was already on television, is that correct? >> that is right. the same could be said to apply. it became very difficult for members of parliament and the commonwealth. when the house of lords did not have a problem with that. we have had quite a number of

changes to the loss of coverage making it much easier to watch -- to the laws of coverage, making it much easier to watch. there are still changes under way. and how many cameras are in the house of commons? >> is there are six in the lord. >> and how are they manned? >> they are robot thickly operated from a controlled gallery. -- robotically operated from a controlled gallery. uc wide shots of the chamber and -- you see wide shots of the chamber. we would like to have a reaction shot just like a broadcast. it is all long wait for word from the original position which is that you could only see the

picture of the person speaking. it was only that. >> since you have covered this all the time, do you have any feel for whether the televising of the house of commons has changed the institution at all or whether it has changed any of the debate? >> i do not think it has made much difference. certainly members of parliament who we have interviewed and denied that it has much impact. they are used to it. there used to the idea of that. some of the silly treachery that went on at the start about being on television and making po ints this to be on television -- that stopped. people used to cluster around the person speaking in order to make it look like that person was surrounded by friends and supporters. nobody does that anymore. they just got used to it.

>> that is the controller, joining us from scotland. we take you back to more of the session. this is the first session of the first day of televising of the british house of commons, november 21, 1989. he will see prime minister margaret thatcher. >> i have always sided against televising the proceedings of this house. >> hear hear. >> i expect that i always will. the brief intervention did nothing to alter my view. despite the strongly held

opinions which i have on the matters, i received a letter three weeks ago. i believe that a copy was sent each of us and possibly even to you, mr. speaker, which made the falling preposterous assertion. i quote, "the impression you make on television depends mainly on your image, 55%, with your body language accounting for 38% of your impact. only 7% depends on what you are actually saying. [laughter] i thought i should mention that.

[laughter] the letter went on and it may seem this is an extravagant claim. we can guarantee to improve your appearance. [laughter] it will be through a personal and confidential image consultation to learn if you need a new hairstyle. [laughter] and where to get it. and the type of glasses to suit your face. the house will understand. i was beyond redemption. [laughter] mr. speaker, this has been a

separate parliamentary constituency than 1885. the electorate is 80,000. i am glad to be able to report that out of those 104 years, we've been represented in the conservative interests. >> hear hear. >> the solitary lapse took place in 1906. four years of liberal representation were more than enough. >> hear hear. >> they provoked of the highest turnout ever recorded for the

following general election. from then on, we have been true blue. we have been tried as well. east sussex as long attracted the retired and the simi retired -- and the semi-retired. my noble friend --the right honorable gentleman whose decision not to seek reelection -- he is a this wire -- the squire. [laughter]

and the noble lord callahan has his estate nearby. [laughter] it will be a source of satisfaction to the party opposite, particularly those who sit below the gain weight, as it is to me, to learn that these comrades have been able to share in the very prosperity of the nation. [laughter] created during the premiership of my right honorable friend. >> hear hear. >> "in these past years, 1657

have bought their houses." you may remember -- they remember, mr. speaker, that the right to buy legislation was seriously opposed by the party opposite. i was proud to have at hand and extending the opportunity for home ownership in the housing act of 1984. last month, pays two -- phase two of a hospital was opened and the medical wards have been transferred from a hospital that

was built in the napoleonic days to our new hospital. i am pleased to tell you that our hospital has informed my right honorable and learned friend of its intention to seek approval to become a self- supporting hospital -- self- governing hospital. >> hear hear. >> 180 of my honorable and right honorable friends stayed up until 6:00 and in the morning in order to vote for it. construction work is well underway. the new harbor will keep us in

the vanguard -- no, ahead of the vanguard in the increasingly successful tourist industry. when it is completed, our fishermen will no longer have did drag their boats onto the beaches. entrepreneurs. refugees. grocers. [laughter] intellectuals, real or imagined. [laughter] the honorable gentleman, the honorable barnett -- baronet,

who have reported aspirations to become of the queen's purse minister -- first minister. all these and many more beside will be able to seek refuge from the storm in the new harbor. [laughter] >> there is absolutely no way in which i can give weight to a member of the liberal party. hold up. hold up. i must leave. i must turn to the merits of the

commitment to support the more remarkable changes taking place. the german chancellor says that prague, budapest, and vienna -- he made no mention of -- london, brussels, paris, or berlin. it stretches from the atlantic. i am strongly in favor of the free movement of people within the 12 countries which make up this area. i have no confidence in the presumed superior wisdom of the commission in brussels as

compared with the judgment of this elected house of commons. >> hear hear. >> recent events have reinforced that view. if we look forward to the day, as i do, when others can share in that freedom that we enjoy, then the long term is more likely to come about. the nations must not succumb to the ambitions of the nationalists. i welcome immigration. we ought to send a message -- to friend and foe alike --that our resolve will never we can -- weaken.

their campaign of terror is as is evil. perpetrator's believe that your will triumph. we need to commit the government to reduce inflation. it is a matter of deep regret that inflation is now more than tripling. high interest rates are not the only weapons, but there are an essential weapon. hold on. until we secure -- that will characterize the stewardship of my right honorable friend.

the president of romania made a speech which lasted for six hours, punctuated by a number of decisions. order. >> order. >> yesterday, the president of romania made a speech which lasted for six hours, and it was punctuated by a number of statements. it has been an honor to have been asked to make this speech. it will be a matter of relief to the house and the person who will be asked to do so on a

subsequent occasion. >> hear hear. >> you are watching live coverage of the british house of commons on c-span. you this and know that at any point in time, the house of representatives might come back into session and in dripping our coverage. until then, we want to talk about what the viewers are seeing. we are pleased to have the four chief political reporter for panorama and a television reporter. >> this is fantastic. television in britain has been going for 50 years. for the first time, it is now in the house of commons. they were talking almost in latin.

you could not believe that 600 grown man could do this sort of thing. it was a very good speech. many jokes would be difficult to understand immediately for an american audience. here was a man who began by saying how much he hated the idea of television in the house and that he had been notified by image builders about how to overcome -- here was a chap who showed the televising will be a great success. he came over so well. he showed that television will actually capture the drama. >> i remember when the senate went on television.

he talked about how members will have to wear red ties. were red ties recommended? >> there was always an idea that you look better on television if you wear suits. every single one of the 500 germans came in wearing blue shirts. they are wearing different colored clothes. they will not look like american anchormen. >> what can you tell us about a man giving the speech? >> he is a labor mp. the queen came and opened parliament this morning. she makes a speech and then mp's from both sides make a

speech saying how grateful they were it is the how grateful they were. >> the speaker of the house has already risen. is it unusual to have the speaker called for order? >> it is not unusual. it would have been unusual if he had not. the house of commons is packed. there are 650 members. there are not even 650 seats. what is surprising is that there has not been more people trying to hog the camera. they have been on their best behavior.

when the speaker started talking, someone got up and made the first point of order. he became the first to be on television. >> we hear all lot of the undercurrents -- the rubble, it might be called. is this something we are going to constantly hear? >> yes. you applaud in the house of commons. they say "hear hear." or they say "shame shame." this is a mass sound. i'm sure it would be odd to go to dinner with an mp. instead of laughing, they go hear hear.

it is a parliamentary way of making sounds. >> there is a book about how about -- how margaret thatcher will come across this afternoon. she will be addressing this commons. >> they have been very concerned about her appearance. she has said that she believes it will destroy the intimate atmosphere of what is essentially a debating ground. other people think she thinks the camera will work to a disadvantage. at the moment, until today, the commons was just on the radio and she was very affluent there, reading from her notes and wearing glasses. wearing glasses -- the british

public do not normally see her wearing glasses and do not see her reading her notes. you have to think on your feet during question time. that is not quite the case. i think she is very concerned about that. also, different views are there as to how she will come across. if she is seen to come across as a fishwife, shouting at the top of her voice, this may alienate many people. it may have the opposite effect. i think what will happen is those people who already think she is wonderful will say, good on you, margaret. those people who cannot stand yher --she may learn because of

television to adapt her technique. when they do the shouting and you are trying to talk over all that noise, what she would do is try to talk over the top of it. i think what she made do now is just lean back and let of the noise and build up. she is shown as the lone woman against the mall of banal hooligans. >> i am not sure of a quarter. how will they come off? >> the leader of the opposition. like me, he does not have that much hair. he said to some of his