♪ closed co-president barack obama will announce new measures -- host: president barack obama will announce new safety measures of the failed attack on a jet liner. he has scheduled white house meetings and will make his address at around 4:00 this afternoon. we will have more on this story later in the program. the morning. welcome to the program. we begin by looking at how the democratic national leadership is looking at the health care bill. several leading newspapers this

morning say that they intend to bypass their republican counterparts in attempting to get the bill through a conference committee and on to the president's desk. the numbers, if you want to get involved in the conversation, for democrats, 202-737-0002. for republicans, 202-737-0001. for independents, 202-628-0205. this is the story in this morning's "the baltimore sun." "the senate and house are to blend without gop. house and senate democrats intend to bypass traditional procedures while coming to a compromise on health care legislation, a move to exclude republican lawmakers and reduce their ability to delay or force

politically troubling votes in both houses. the unofficial timetable calls for final passage of the measure to remake the nation's health- care system by the time president barack obama delivers his state of the union address, probably in early february. democratic aides said the final compromise would essentially be a three-way negotiation involving top democrats in the house and senate and the white house, a structure that gives an unusual latitude to senate majority leader harry reid and speaker nancy pelosi." at this point we want to take a look at an item that is being reported by mike allan this morning. he writes about "politico's" terry brown, who has posted a comparison between the house and

senate reform bills. "more than 50 top line differences need to be resolved, from the amount of taxes levied to the minimum benefits offered in exchange. today speaker pelosi will start setting the parameters for negotiations with the senate. then steny hoyer will go to the white house to meet with vice president joe biden and dick durbin. white house aides have sought to downplay this challenge of reconciling the two bills, but it is an unambiguous reminder that a bill signing is a ways off and a series of politically unforgiving and party straining decisions await the democrats'." so, that is what we're going to be talking about for about the first 45 minutes. going to the phones, our first call comes from new york city.

good morning, daisy. daisy, are you there? all right, let's try fort smith, arkansas. independent line. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: you are looking chipper this morning. host: thank you very much, jeanne. what you think of this democratic plan to bypass the republicans to get this bill to the president's desk? caller: two words -- i don't. i will explain further. host: please do. caller: i am the child of arkansas political family. do you remember the term yellow dog democrats? that is my family. the democrats of today are not the democrats of 30 years ago. the move they are falling is

completely thumbing their nose at the american people and everyone else. they are not listening. i can tell you, in arkansas better than 60% of the population is dead set against the bill. i got hold of the television and the first amendment and the bill itself. at least three items within the first page go against the constitution. if you look at the fact that we have got 13 attorneys general looking at the constitutionality of it -- host: if the democrats decide to go ahead and bypass their republican counterparts, is this going to have an effect in november of 2010?

caller: let me tell you, it is already having an effect. blanche lincoln has already canceled appearances. the advocate role here in arkansas is very strong. better than 60% of the population is completely upset and tpissed at blance. host: all right. let's go to the democratic line in delaware. caller: how are you? when hitler took power in germany he bypassed traditional means. democrats, communists, nazis, they are all the same.

november is the only time we have to get back the country. vote right this time, people. host: all right. jack, you are next. caller: i am telling obama to go ahead and reward those people on the airplane that put out that fire, it would have burned more. they are talking about putting him in a military court. host: we are talking about health care right more. let's go to grosse pointe, michigan. independent line. jesse, what do you think about this plan that the democrats are throwing out? caller: it is great. you know the problem that i think is with the republican party, they will have to earn their record when they are in office. they do not care about people. they are the party of no. i think this president is

educated, strong, and he does not jump up and holler when something happens without getting the facts. he examines the situation and makes an intelligent decision. i think that this country is so badly in need of health care reform i cannot see -- you know, what we are organizing and fighting for is to make sure that the republicans a do not gain any seats in the senate. we have to start working on that from an intelligent angle. you want the party of no back in there with that record? he will not run on racism and conservatism. host: are you concerned that there might be backlash in november? caller: well, the american people are smarter than the pundits and pollsters give them credit for.

i do not think that there will be a backlash of this health care reform. i do not thidkbq!q there will be a backlash of the president's standing up to the pirates in defending this country, doing what he is supposed to do. i do not think that when he gets down to dealing with what is best for america, i do not think that the parties and racism, conservatism and all of these things, i do not think that they willñi have anything. obama is looking at what is best for the country. health care, protecting our borders, doing the things that america expects a president to do. host: let's leave it there. these officials said that there are no plans to appoint an official house senate committee in conference. under the customary format, "a

committee chairman is appointed with senior lawmakers from both parties in houses, participating in a perfunctory public meetings while meaningful negotiations occur behind closed doors. in this case the plan is to skip close meat -- the plan is to skip the perfunctory meetings. in this case, a 60 votes senate majority would be required to advance a final package. "i look forward to working with members of the house, the senate and president obama to reconcile our bills and send the final legislation to the president's desk as soon as possible," nancy pelosi said laced -- late last year." south carolina, go ahead. caller: i disagree with the last caller. i know for a fact that the health care bill and health care

reform that the democrats are trying to push is going to completely affect the senate and congress in the november election. the parties discussed, the tea parties, are forming an alliance called the patriot caucus. the health care disparities suffered by our country are going to be completely -- going to be completely worse than it is at this point if we are forced to pay for something that we do not want. the voters will elect leaders of our country in november of next year according to this bill. host: have you had a chance to read either versions of this health care bill? caller: i will be completely honest and tell you know. -- no. just like everyone in the congress and the senate. i have read parts of it. here is the one part that i know.

health care reform needs what the government has, transparency. the health care bill does not perform that. how do i know this? no one else outside of the senate and the congress have read every single bill. transparency is what we need. not being forced into a government run health care system. if anyone thinks that this health care reform is going to make our country healthier, they need to spend a day or week in a va hospital. talk to someone outside of this country. speak to a working, single mother on medicaid. ask her how long it takes to get in to see a gyn or how many doctors except government run health care right now. if we go back to when the automobile industry found the

government stepping in, $4,000 for every clunker -- asked the car dealerships about how they got paid for that. host: we will move on to bill in edmond, oklahoma. caller: i am glad that i have the opportunity to comment after this lady. i cannot hear your side of this because i've got my television turned down. host: we appreciate that. colorado well, i guess i just heard that. -- caller: well, i guess i just heard that. i will just go by what is on the phone. anyways, that nurse made several comments that suggests that she has got a problem with the present administration that goes beyond health care, talking about that clunker program.

a nurse is not in the administration of a hospital and does not pay the bills. my feeling is to address the main question about democrats bypassing the gop. i think that the democrats have done so much trying to accommodate republican members of congress this year with the republicans overlooking the fact that president obama came the electorate, wanting some changes made beery they have done nothing but be obstructionist to change. while they say that they cannot do it for this reason and that, they have told all sorts of tricks. we must have health care reform,

however small the incremental steps are to get it. host: you do not think that the democrats could include the republicans and still get health care reform? caller: not in this decade. there are 47 million americans without health care. i do not know where this lady's concerns are, but that is not acceptable. one harvard study estimated that 45,000 people every year died from an adequate access to health care -- inadequate access to health care. i am 67 years old, on medicare select. after the first of the year michael fay went up substantially, even though my primary source of income, social security, was stagnant. they're going backwards. host: thank you for their -- thank you for the call. more from "the baltimore sun."

"democrats are able to omit time consuming steps in the senate and prevent republicans from trying to delay the final negotiations. under senate rules, three separate votes are required before negotiators for the two houses may hold a formal meeting. while the three normally are agreed to within seconds, each may be filibustered, and democrats would then have to produce 60 votes to cut off debate. additionally, republicans would have the right to demand votes on nine -- non-bindingñr proposs wants negotiators for the two houses were appointed. that could, in turn, required democrats to vote on political controversies such as wiping out the legislation proposed cuts in medicare, which easily be turned into attack ads in next fall's campaign." bill, good morning.

caller: good morning, c-span and america. i am glad that the democrats have decided to show some testicular fortitude in all of this and actually passed legislation. the same thing happened for the past eight years when republicans were in power. to the lady that wanted to bad mouth the veterans administration a few called back, let me suggest to you, ma'am, my brother is a vietnam veteran. he had not seen a doctor since he was discharged from vietnam. he finally, after playing around, got back on the rolls. i had to take into the va hospital, where they went and checked him out. they did 42 tests and 32 procedures in for a half hours, madam. i do not believe that there is a regular hospital that will get

that much done in that amount of time. host: we want to remind our listenerndwershat they can get in touch with us through e-mail journal@c-span.org and don twitter through twitter.com/c-spanwj. we want to show you a letter that was sent by management to the house and senate -- "c-span requests that you open all important negotiations, including conference meeting negotiations, to electronic media coverage. president obama, senate and house leaders, many of your rank-and-file members, and the nation's editorial pages have all talked about the value of transferrin discussions on reforming the nation's health- care system. now that the process moves to the critical stage a

reconciliation between the chambers, we respectfully request that you allow the public full access, through television, the legislation that will affect the lives of every single american." stock been, go ahead. caller: obama does not want to listen to anything that the people have to say. they bad mouth of the tea party. that is not just republicans. there are democrats and independents there as well. why should we all of the health care? he said he would own it. -- why should we own the health care? he said he would own it. all of the insurance that i ever had in my life would not take 2700 pages to cover. people do not even know what is in it. i think that it is a step towards communism.

people want the government to take care of them. they do not want to have to make decisions. do they not realize that hospitals are freedom? the government is trillions of dollars in debt, saying that they inherited something, and now they want to take over health care? there are so many illegal immigrants in the country that get their health care from the government. and they want to give them amnesty? they are still dishonest by being he'll in the first place. they use federal identification, they will not be playing like we do. host: what are you specifically concerned with that will be overlooked and not discussed in the reconciliation of the health care bill? host: i am sure that the people that do the voting do not even know. i do not think that abortions should be covered.

i just do not trust it. host: thank you for your call. in the op ed section of " washington times -- of "the washington times" this morning "democrats keeping health care secrets away from the public. it might be a new year, but congressional democrats are planning the same old sorts of sleazy tactics in their bid to take over america's health-care system. congressional republicans, especially in the senate, should lot let them get away with it. transparency and ethics should be republican rallying cries, and obstruction on those grounds should be a point of pride. by now it's almost right to complain that president obama repeatedly has broken his campaign pledge to broadcast negotiations on c-span so that american people and see what the choices are. that does not make that point invalid. for legislation that could so profoundly and personally

affected the lives of every american, congress and the white house should be more transparent and accessible than ever before. instead, the process has been secretive and sorted throughout ." salisbury, maryland. that morning. -- good morning. your thoughts on the democratic plan to bypass the republicans on reconciliation? caller: well, democrats have gone to the homes and communities and begged. what else could be done for these guys? in the last eight years, remember, the republicans did not accomplish a thing. the vice president was in hiding. the president did not do anything. the democrats should shut it down their throats and keep it going.

also, is it possible to do a poll? myself, i have health care through the government, it is excellent health care. can you break the pull down -- poll down? i do not think they are correct. this one guy is the only one speaking against obama. no one else is supporting what he says. host: we will leave it there and keep the discussion going on democratic leaders and their plans to bypass the gop on health care legislation reconciliation. next is adobe, houston, texas. good morning. caller: good morning.

thank you for your wonderful program. i do not think that this is going to work, but i feel like the democrats have been pushed to this point where this is a last resort for them. at the same time, i worry about the fact that you do not have an opposing point of view on how this massive piece of social legislature should be constructed. host: hagel were the democrats pushed to this point? -- how were the democrats pushed to this point? caller: republicans were tending to be obstructionist. they did not offer any constructive strategy's to counter what the proposals were from the democrats. for instance, if either were an adviser for a republican -- if i

were a republican adviser for a republican senator, i might suggest strategizing premiums according to risk, asking that the bill encourage that. i would also propose increasing the medical loss ratio that insurance companies have to take out of their profits, from 85% to 90%. i feel that those kinds of constructive proposals to counter what the democrats are putting forward a might have çóhelped progress the debate forward. i do not think of the republicans are adding any value. in the end it came down to a fight or a tug-of-war over political popularity and not necessarily what was in the best interest of the country.

host: thank you for the call. in the next segment of the program we are going to be talking about terrorism and homeland security with evan terrace. he had an article this morning under the headline "dozens of names shifted to no-fly lists." "the obama administration has transferred dozens of names from a terrorism database to watch lists that are most closely monitored in an effort to plug security holes revealed by the christmas day airline bombing attempt. president barack obama met monday with white house counter- terrorism chief john brennan, national security of adviser james jones and deputy national security advisor, donnell on -- ahead of a broader security team meeting today." we will talk with evan perez on that later this morning. our next call comes from texas,

james, democratic line. go ahead. caller: it is about time that the democrats got some doubts -- guts and go after the obstructionists. i have an analogy of what they have been confronted with. i am 73 years old and spent a lot of time in the civil war -- civil rights war. we had our heads a split open by the racists in the south occasionally, but we overcame. for that lady in arkansas, ma'am, when the civil rights act was signed, republicans developed what they called their southern strategy, an appeal to the white racist. these yellow dog democrats

became republicans, because republicans were primarily more welcoming to racists. back to the health care, what we have is this. the premiums for health care have doubled since 2000, when the republicans did nothing. 45,000 people were dying because of lack of health care. republicans were in power and did nothing. when you talk about goals, ask yourself if a provision within the health care reform, where it cannot be refused insurance because they've -- because of a pre-existing condition, is that ok? or if there are no lifetime caps in treatment of injury or illness, is that ok? when they talk about polls, what they're doing is talking about polls that described a health care path -- a plan that comes

out of the right. host: thank you for the call. the next call comes from minnesota, independent line. caller: i completely agree with the democrats that are calling in. they should do this without the gop. when is all done, said, and over with, democrats will have to take responsibility for what they have done. i believe that this health care bill will further along the president's agenda to bankrupt the united states of america. i am an independent, i do not vote one way or another, i vote according to a person. i do believe that this president has an agenda to bankrupt this country. i believe the debt that is his plan. the people keep saying that republicans have not put forth anything.

to say, of argument here, what about selling insurance across state lines? they brought that up. what about court reform? they brought that up. toward reform alone, if you take in the amount of -- what about tort reform? they brought that up. tort reform alone, if you take in that amount, it alone would be $25 billion per year. when you come out of the health care money is. there are a lot of things that the republicans have put forward that would help this situation. host: thank you for the call. in "the washington post" this morning the white house called for more broadband access to

increase competition. these comments written in his letter to the federal communications commission, "the current technology policy arm is not competitive enough and wireless internet access could serve as a affordable shift for underutilized specimens to wireless carriers. the agency warned that the fcc should consider how the largest telecommunications company could further concentrate their power through a market auction." mary, what do you think about this plan by the democratic leadership? caller: what i really think is that the lack of transparency is

the number one problem. you read two really good articles a little while ago. people are so focused on their own agenda, but i am registered as a republican and i think that everyone should switch to being independent voters so that we will not have these groups constantly fighting and the media constantly making that worse. i would like to see transparency on a day to day basis. it took these people some time to come up with these provisions, which could have been presented to the american people. ftelevise what had been the ideal, but even a daily update -- televised would have been the

ideal, but even a daily update would have been better for a change. then it will kind of sort itself out, when you allow that rights also go along with responsibility. host: did you have a chance to watch any of the coverage of the process? caller: the process is terrible. you have your liberal networks, then you have your conservative networks. cnn tried to be unbiased, but they are beginning to lean more liberal. i tried to watch all of them, honestly. because there are good points on all sides. i've been to the americans that are not covered are the working people that deserve most of all to be covered. we deserve a public option where

people can have health insurance. if you do not want to have health insurance, that's fine. host: thank you for the call. the lead story today -- states' rights -- "states raced to tighten belts." "grim budget shortfalls could mean a repeat of the service cuts, layoffs, or furloughs and higher fees imposed in 2009, eight "usa today" survey shows. states past fiscal 2010 general fund budgets totaling $627.9 billion, up 5.4% less than a year earlier, says a study released last month by the national association of state budget officers and national governors association. despite cuts, shortfalls for the 2010 fiscal year, which in most

states began july 1, our 14 $20 billion. the gap in 2011 is $21.9 billion beer " verlaine, co-head. what you think about the democratic -- $21.9 billion." maryland, go ahead. what do you think about the democratic plan to bypass the republicans? caller: it is about time. for the people that call in saying that the republicans tried to be bipartisan, that is not true. if they really felt that all of these ideas were so afraid -- were so great, why did it take them eight years to do nothing? nixon, they did nothing. the so-called best republican in the world? ronald reagan, he did nothing. they had a four -- first to george bush, who did nothing. they had little bush, who did nothing. clinton tried but it did not

work because they use the more ignorance from the gop party. now that president obama is trying to do something, it is like they do not want to work with him on nothing. it's like if he would eat a banana, they would be against that. fox news is no better. when glenn beck says that this man is a racist, the land, you might want to think about what you say -- glenn, you might want to think about what you say before you say it. host: missouri, go ahead. caller: i have listened to you people for 10 years and this is the first time i have been able to get on. i have knowledge about politicians. and how they handle things. i was a committee man for the democratic party for over 60 years.

what is going on today is absolute ignorance. that is all that you can call it. i have got another word for it. the media and these people sitting up there talking. but they say that i cannot say bs, so i will call at fantastic. host: let's move on to tucson, arizona. michael? caller: how are you this morning? host: what do you think about the democratic plan? caller: i think that the republicans had eight years. we are only one year into this new administration. can you hear me? çóthe trick is that everyone is making hentoff about everything but speculation, but let's get down to the nuts and bolts, so let's put a committee together.

if obama tells us not to step on the giants philip, they could not take him apart like they already have. republicans are trying to stand against yesterday. i watch you all the time. i love you, you know why? you let everyone talks. this is my first time. i have gotten up twice. we have given up on ourselves. look at the generation that came back from world war ii, they went right back to work. host: thank you for your call. the lead editorial today, in "usa today," "blame game in failings in christmas attack of skiers -- of skiers -- of skewer -- obscures.

on the political level, the blame game is just insipid. after all, the incident resulted from a failure of the nation's new intelligence system. that system was built under a republican administration on the advice of the bipartisan ninth was 11 commission, it has been operative for the past year by a democratic administration in has been overseen by congress controlled by each party. political agendas just aren't the issue, complete -- competence is." dennis blair said "would never showed cummings -- whatever shortcomings appear in the investigation should not obscure the improve collaboration by and information sharing in the intelligence community against al qaeda and the many other threats to our national security. the intelligence community should be proud of its role in weakening the ability of

terrorist groups to carry out highly orchestrated attacks conducted by highly trained teams like the one on 9/11. al qaeda is diminished as evidenced by the fact that they are sending inexperienced individuals without long association with al qaeda, but susceptible to jihadist ideology. unfortunately, even on sophisticated terrorists can kill many americans." our last call comes from new york city. greg, good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to make a short statement. to the people that listen to c- span, first and foremost, the idea that the democrats are doing what the democrats are doing, why not? they are in charge, they are in control. second, the people of this country are more concerned about one individual flying on an airplane and they are the masses that run this country.

-- individual flying an airplane than they are the masses that run this country. no. 2, sees the plan, republicans are in the minority. therefore if you bring up a subject matter that deals with them in your resources on information with regards to the media are such that, like a newspaper that you quote from, you are shortchanging your audience. you never give a point of view from a paper that represents that particular population in this country. the information that you read is biased. "the new york times, "the washington post, these are standards -- "the washington post," these are standards. you should have a broader choice of newspapers or whatever media coverage that you read from to get a different point of view with regards to how the population believe feels about health care and anything else in this country.

thank you very much. host: we will leave it there. thank you for your call. when we come back, we will be talking about terrorism and homeland security with evan perez of "the wall street journal." we will be right back. ♪ >> now available, c-span's book, "abraham lincoln: great american historians on our 16th president."

from 56 scholars, journalists, and writers, his early years in the white house to his relevance today. now all-out -- now available in digital audio to listen to any time. learn more at c-span.org /lincolnbook. >> there is less than one month left to enter the studentcam contest. top prize? $5,000. just create a five minute to a minute video on a challenge that the country is facing or one of the greatest strength of the company -- of the country. winning entries will be shown on c-span. do not wait another minute. ca good cam.org for contest -- go to studentcam.org for information. >> "washington journal" continues.

host: evan perez from " losses -- from " washington journal joins us -- from "the washington journal" joins us this morning. what are the officials saying? guest: ranging from the director of the national intelligence, the cia director, the fbi director, it runs the gamut. if you bring them all in, as you know they have turned in reports over the last couple of days that essentially are sketching out what problems they have found inside of their agency and how they plan to fix them. the president is basically trying to go through those reports and find ways to address them down. host: this goes to my next question. will this be a meeting where he is mostly listening to cabinet

members? or is he giving marching orders? guest: judging by what is in some of the reports, i would expect that the president might do a lot of talking. you see what is happening as many of the agencies are pointing fingers at each other and in some cases asserting that the system worked, at least they're part of the system worked. perhaps not a lot of taking the blame for themselves is going on. i think the president might do a lot of talking after that. host: is it fair to describe this as a coming to church meeting? guest: come to jesus would be more accurate. [laughter] host: regarding the revisions in homeland security, what is he going to be saying? guest: more security measures,

more on the ways that the different agencies deal with each other and share information. that has happened repeatedly, most recently in november when there were the shootings at fort hood and we found out that there were actions that were not acted upon. this has been a bigger problem than anyone realized and the president is going to try to address that. host: terrorism and homeland security is our topic for the next 45 minutes. if you would like to be involved in the conversation, for democrats, 202-737-0002. for republicans, 202-737-0001. for independents, 202-628-0205. you can also send us messages on e-mails board twittered. or twittered. -- twitter.

guest: the president, since he came to office, has travel overseas, trying to a least make the words coming out more cooperation, and so on. he will try to incorporate this theme, the concern about terrorism, and perhaps the thing that has been pushed into the background of his presidency until now. he will try to merge those things and we will try to get him to talk about cooperation overseas to make everybody safe. host: our first call comes from jacksonville. william, good morning. caller: good morning, good to see you. you are informed. hello? host: go ahead.

caller: how can we fight someone who wears no uniform, number one. that is the craziest thing i have ever seen. nobody can even go over there and speak the language. the people that live there, they know that you are hope that. same question, why is britain and all of those other places on the list? the law have a happy new year. guest: the question of fighting a war with an enemy that has no uniform is obviously a big topic for the government since 9/11. the bush administration handled it one way. the obama administration has pretty much come to the view that this is a war, whether someone is wearing a uniform or

not. that is how each administration has approached it. they have had divisions over whether or not they should use certain methods or systems, like the military commission system, but both administrations of view this as a war that will go on for a very long time and it does not matter if al qaeda or other extremists are wearing a uniform, it is a war. host: the caller mentioned security measures for what he called high-risk countries, including afghanistan, algeria, cuba, iran, iraq, lebanon, cuba, and saudi arabia. guest: those are countries that

have been kicked out for further screening, and there is a lot of criticism of that. incidents like the one on christmas day, like richard reid in 2001, carrying a british passport on a flight into miami. if you criticize people from nigeria, somalia, focus on those people, we would not have picked up on richard reid. i think that there is valid criticism of what, exactly, are we aiming for. i do not know that the administration has explained that fully. host: washington, missouri. republican line. caller: i was just calling to talk about the security that we have. i think that jan in the paula pagano, eric holder, and president obama -- janet

napolitano, eric holder, and president obama have not taken this into account. before he can to work for us, eric holder was in a law firm that did pro bono work for terrorist. they have no clue. they think it is a joke. they will make us safe. good luck, america. guest: eric holder work for law firm that, like many big law firms, volunteered sometimes to represent some of the detainee is in the war on terror. there were many legal issues that were raised. so, his law firm was not unlike many other big ones. host: in "the baltimore sun" this morning they write "there will be an addition of more names to the government terror watch lists after u.s. officials

closely scrutinized a larger data base of suspected terrorists. people on the watch list will be checked additionally before entering this country. those on the no-fly list are barred from boarding aircraft headed for the united states." how are they going to make that determination on who heads from which list? is there a specific criteria? guest: there is a specific set of criteria, the question that many people who are skeptics, like i am, but as this is how did that happen? çóhow did it suddenly become dozens of names being mgv d from one database to a more stringent database? why did that not happen earlier? what new criteria or information have you discovered that made

you move those people's names over? is it just a political issue? did you try to make sure that you covered all the bases and so on? i do not think that the explanation of what occurred is forthcoming from the administration and i think that a lot of people should ask the question of what the criteria is in order to move those people over. host: virginia beach, virginia. democratic line. good morning, welcome to "the washington journal." caller: i would like to comment on homeland security. and i think that there was a break and probably homeland -- probably terrorist activity in homeland security. too many people have been able to infiltrate handshaking with the president for it not to be an inside job. that needs to be address. çóit unnerves me that i have sen

a lot of lax security, just as they practice universal precautions for health care, i think that there should be universal precautions for terrorist activities. everyone should be treated that way until otherwise notified. host: are you still with us? as a frequent flier, what do you see that could be improved in terms of securing the airports and making sure that everyone who's tried a lot -- traveling is safe? caller: i have been able to carry aboard perfume's and liquids, they were not regulation size. i got away with it. i was not trying to, it was in there by mistake, but i got away with it. i have no plan to do anything wrong to anybody, but if i can get away with it as an individual, hundreds of others

can. i fly to month not to be searched often. i fly all the time. i have to work out of town. there are things that i have seen that really need to be crack down upon. i am in very much agreement to the scanner. host: thank you for your call. the caller is echoing the sentiments of many people. the system is imperfect and there is a lot of lapses that happened. it is also clear -- i have spoken to former senior officials in the government, he said that he and his family were detained at the airport in search because they found that he had traveled to afghanistan. that person was searched and scrutinized but others are not.

clearly there are ways to improve the system. host: we are talking with evan perez about ways to improve the system, as well as the president's meeting this afternoon in his announcement from the white house. our next call comes from north carolina. justin, go ahead. caller: how're you doing? host: just fine. good morning. colorado i was watching fox news sunday yesterday, mr. brennan admitted that there was no attempt to try these individuals in criminal court. my question is, does that not imply that there is an upside or downside in determining the factors of whether or not these individuals are tried? second, what is ever the up side

of keeping terrorists off of our soil in the first place and holding them somewhere else? guest: on the first question, you have put your finger on something that this administration is struggling with, how to explain why they decided to put some people on trial in criminal court and why some of them need to go to military court. the fact is that they do not have a good answer, the administration prefers to use the civilian courts. the president was very critical of the bush administration and their system, but then he got into office and saw the evidence that the government has against some of these detainee's and he realized that some of the evidence probably could not hold up in civilian court. that is when he decided to basically go back and rejigger the military commissions system.

something that the administration essentially does not want to essentially put out there, the fact of the military commission system is different and, in some ways, a lesser system and internationally is viewed that way. this is why you see them struggling to explain why they decided to go one way on some h and the other way and others. host: we got this clear message from twitter -- how much of security is outsourced to corporate contractors, like the cia, and do their employees have security clearances? guest: a lot of what to do is done by big contractors. billions of dollars are spent on this stuff. many of these people have security clearances that they

had when they were government officials and then they move into the private sector, carrying their top-level clearance is with them. host: one element coming into the news lately is that some of the employees of the tsa are trying to organize. how much of a factor is this going to be in the debate regarding homeland security in the coming weeks and months? host: it depends -- guest: it depends. for republicans, this is a big issue. there's a big divide, politically, between democrats and republicans on this. republicans will try to make an issue of this, pointing out that this is not safe. democrats will argue, probably a bit more quietly, that people should have a right to organize,

just like anyone else. host: michigan, brian, republican line. caller: going back to the first world trade center bombing, i was amazed at how little scrutiny was put on the boy -- on the clinton administration when it was turned into a so- called criminal court issue. president obama, who i am really trying to support, says that he is worried about our image overseas. but when this major that should have been booted from the service prior to him doing the damage, the murders that he did, he is worried about damage, but he comes right out on television and says that this man is going

to be tried and found guilty. how was that laid out in the arab world? we know that it was a ridiculous statement. i am sitting with my mother, she is still smart, in her 80's, and she asked me what i thought of that and i said it was the dumbest statement i had ever heard a president make. .

host: there is an editorial in this morning's is paper from saudi arabia in response to the president's efforts to tighten security. guest: the question is one a lot of people are raising. if you decide to focus on these

14 countries, then perhaps might you be missing other things? which from experience show a very real problem. i don't think the administration has fully explained the decision. whether it is just a temporary measure. whether there is something longer term plan. host: is it just nationals who are flying from these countries as a country of origin? or if they pass through amsterdam, as with the christmas bomber, would he be subjected to more scrutiny and security measures in amsterdam as well as the country of origin as he flew to the u.s.? guest: the idea is that anyone in originating from or traveling through. if the alleged bomber had gone

through lagos to do o -- to dub non to amsterdam he would have gone through the same scrutiny. host: back to the phones. south carolina, mary on the line for democrats. caller: i have a couple questions. one, when did all this start? what did we do as american that is so bad that the islam world is so against us? i don't understand that part. what did we do to make them hit as the way that they do? the second one -- could you explain something, from when 9/11 happened, the bush

administration had intelligence on the proposed attack for five months and did nothing about it and went on vacation. could you verify that that he had five months' advance intelligence? he did nothing. the next thing i wanted to ask, is it possible that something can be done about the republicans? they just keep on talking about the president not knowing what he was doing and i think he is doing a good job because of what was handed to him. as far as what is left over from the bush administration. guest: regarding the bush administration, that has been something for debate. the was intelligence the government had indicated something going on. the cia knew that a couple of the hijackers were in the country. knew that there were not supposed to be here.

did nothing about it. there has been a lot of debate over how much knowledge rose to the level of the president and white house. i don't know that anyone really knew something was coming on that day and its extent. host: next up, indiana, on the line for independents. caller: good morning, i would like to talk about the definition of terrorism and terrorists. the record is "terror" which is extreme. extreme extreme fear to this country has not only lost the people who have been killed by the terrorist act which is just the head on thenail. it has also affected our economy, paranoia of the citizens who are remember were

out after 9/11 buying plastic and duck tape. the terrorists have also made us go to war with them and send our troops who are our citizens over to the majority of our enemy. it gives them a chance to kill more american citizens. i just don't understand where this is supposed to stop. what war on terrorism, the final goal for winning the war is? guest: i think this administration or the previous administration -- neither really knows where this is going to and. i don't think there is any explanation for the origins.

people try to cite the troubles in the middle east, the occupation of palestine. but really there is a myriad of reasons and no reason. host: in "the financial times" and others -- al qaeda seeks to make yemen its safe haven. explain to us what they seem to be moving there and tell will shift the u.s. response to the war and terror? guest: it is like water. if fines -- always finds a place to go. there are extremist groups taking advantage of the instability. it is a very poor country and has political issues internally. the government does not have

full control of its borders. host: next up, ann in baltimore on the line for republicans. caller: i just wanted to see what your views are. i think it is ridiculous when we can read where the british citizens, mousavi was a french citizen -- al qaeda is not stupid. the algerian boy radicalized in london. it is not the poor ones --- the next person will be someone from europe or even domestic. justly believe certain countries, maybe some in the middle east i guess is reasonable, but just labeling countries and a saying that people coming from nigeria or other places will make any difference.

al qaeda keeps changing. not addressing the ideas of radicalization in different countries of europe is going to cost us down the line. guest: the caller encapsulates everything a lot of people are saying. the problem is if you focus on certain countries you might miss other things. if you remember, just before this christmas day attempt we were having a lot of discussions in this country about radicalization here. there had been a spate of incidences' involving u.s. nationals are people with permit residents here who were radicalized by the internet with some of these imams. the caller points out a very good question. if you just focus on people from

where the last attack came from, then you will miss the the next one will come from. host: the wall street journal reporter joins us for the discussion, the justice depart reporter for "the wall street journal." previously he started there back in 1998, worked for the journal in miami and most recently in atlanta covering aviation and hurricane katrina. lakewood, colorado. the line for democrats. caller: thank you so much for taking my call. i would like to speak to the issue of politicizing terror. we have heard people from the republican party wishing that obama would fail. holding nazi signs. we have nationalist socialist in germany that use the idiom that liberals are weak.

they used very effectively to downtrodden of jews. here in this country now we have and dick cheney saying that this president does not understand that we are at war. this is just absolutely so unacceptable in my opinion. the simplest explanation is often missed. the cia knew about the showman that was going to board the plane. why didn't they report it? i wonder if this person is working for dick cheney. that is the simplest explanation. guest: the political angle of this is not quite surprising. especially from some of the charges and countercharges you see, there's not much substance to what has been said in the last few days. people are looking for to the

2010 elections. the caller is pointing out some of the failings of the cia and state department and other agencies. to find some kind of political motivation behind the failings, or some of the responses is perhaps reaching. host: there is not dead in this morning's "washington post" and he questions why to bet is on this list. he says there is no history of radical islam there, or hardly any history of islam there at all.

guest: i lived for a long time in miami. miami is probably the reason why cuba is still on the list. the very big population of cuban exiles in miami are very politically active. they or listened to by a administrations. there have been incidents from the past were the castro government has supported things we would consider terrorism. that is one reason why they are on the list. until relations improve the dulce the u.s. removing cuba from the list. host: do you think that gives the administration the opportunity to say they're not just picking on countries in the middle east or where islam is the predominant religion? guest: they looked at the state

department list including syria, iran, north korea, and cuba. they basically decided to use the list. if you remove one then political you get attacked. in miami you will get attacked as to what you would treat cuba separately. and that would be if you remove any other countries. there probably is some of that, but the simpler explanation is probably true. host: st. stain on the topic of state-concert terrorism, why isn't north korea on the list? guest: there is not a lot of air traffic allowed through north korea. it is a good question. if you will use that list,

then use it. host: fla., on the line. caller: ok, i would like to know -- i'm not trying to be funny, but are you really educated to understand that cuba is on a list because of all the other non-compliance with what the u.s. once? because the u.s. gets what they want. i am a terrorist and all u.s. citizens are terrorists. are you there? guest: i am here. what was pointing to is the

political nature of this. i lived in miami for a long time. the administration decided to go the safe route an ad cuba. host: what is the difference between our watch list and a no- fly list? why wouldn't they just put everyone on the watch list on the no-fly list? guest: good question. there has been a lot of examination of exactly what the different lists include. the way the government explains it is that there is a larger data base with 550,000 names on it. and some are aliases. some the government has been talking to about other investigations.

from that there is a more narrow list which includes a few thousand who are banned from flying on any plans to the u.s. and which is also used by other countries. then there are other lists of people selected for closer scrutiny. people for interviews of the present at the airport, or if they try to buy a ticket. the government basically has these different lists. right now with the administration is trying to do is to find a streamlined way to move people back and forth, to make sure the right people are on the lists selected for scrutiny. host: how much discussion this afternoon at the white house will involve a upgrading technology?

particularly body scanners and puffers? guest: a lot of that is forthcoming. you'll probably hear today or in the next few days. they will probably spend billions more on new technology, new computers. for them to be able to correlate the information better. you are also likely to hear more spending on body technologyñi ad things would not even heard about. host: the line for republicans, go ahead. caller: basically, i think a everyone should read the book "horse soldiers." and it would possibly understand better the countries over there and what the military is going through.

if there is a pocket here end of their end of the terrain is horrible. then they might also understand what the people are coming over here. and there are individuals who have been so brainwashed that they feel the only way to get to heaven is to kill people. and which is a sad, sad thing. i believe it is a good book and explains the terrain and mindset of the people there. and the trade-offs that must be made. host: are you familiar with the book? guest: no, not actually. host: let's go on to georgia on the democrats' line. caller: i love this country with all my heart. it really distresses me that we are so divided. i sincerely wish that for 2010 we will somehow find a way to get together as americans.

president obama like the rest of us loves this country. i have a specific question. the first is, if i am walking in a secluded area and there is a pussycat behind me i'm not concerned. if i turn around and there is aligned behind me i will be concerned. what is wrong with profiling? -- if a turnaround and there is a lion behind me, i will be concerned. i'm on airplanes all the time and my wife lives in another state. i think that t.s.a. and other agencies do an excellent job. my second question is, it seems as though we are always fighting the last battle. now you cannot put pillows or blankets on your laps. is there some organization for

people are just imagining what would happen --for a simple, i can imagine people secreting explosives in breast implants. how would you prevent that? guest: fighting the last battle -- it is a huge problem. it is part of what has happened here. in 2006 there was a plot to put the green the quids on two planes and explode them. -- the green liquids onto planes and expelled them. the government had known about them for a longçó time, but it s only until there was a known plot that they decided to limit the amount you could bring onto a plane. i think that is the way the government is set up. it happened in the previous

administrations and in this one. there is always a reticence and reluctance to do too much. because of privacy concerns. the other thing the caller just raised, profiling, if you talk to people in national security many will tell you that perhaps our country should relax some of its expectations of privacy. people at the aclu would strongly agree. many think that profiling does not work because it did too focused on wrong things. and it does not really allow you to think about -- to think outside the box. there's a big debate probably forthcoming on the issue of privacy in profiling. we're struggling with it constitutionally and culturally.

host: later on today in the meeting with president who will the president went to not necessarily to blame, but who does he see as having the most responsibility for the attempted explosion on christmas day? who will be expect to shoulder the most responsibility in this new step and homeland security? guest: there is plenty of blame to go around. i think he will look at people inside it -- the director of national intelligence, the people running the national counter-terrorism center. the cia certainly did not do some things it should have. the state department -- yesterday i saw commons from secretary of state clinton defending the actions of her agency.

i think it misses some of the point. people are wondering if the father of the alleged bomber comes into the embassy and gives these specific concerns that the house about his son getting radicalized, yet you don't cancel the visa? there's clearly something wrong there. it may not have been the procedure you follow that the time, but certainly you can admit that it should have been done. host: will anyone lose their jobs over this? guest: it is a good question. recent history indicates not. people do not lose their job. they just vow to do better next time. host: ohio, on the line for independents. caller: as far as the security goes would be wrong with a plan for we would have maybe six major hubs around the world where flights into the u.s.

where flights would originate from? have americans assumed total control of six positions? it would seem to have more control over who is coming in. guest: the airlines would tell you it is not workable. obviously, the world economy depends on the free movement of people and goods. the u.s. setting up security people overseas, now that is something already been done. for example, in the caribbean, in cancun, and jamaica. those places where you have high tourist traffic. there is some streaming allowed on the shores of other countries. in europe you would get some resistance for sovereignty reasons. host: the subhead in this article this morning, european

airports slow to implement. it sounds like they're having some of the same problems we have here as far as having enough people on the ground to do these kind of checks? guest: yes, i think yesterday many of them did not understand what the new requirements are. airports in france and the u.k. did not know whether the rules the u.s. was not trying to promulgate were legal in their systems. there is a general -- this is a problem most countries have. these are not jobs it will pay a lot of money for. the screen jobs. therefore, you attract a certain level ofñi candidates for the jobs. it is whether or not you to pay the money to increase security.

host: we see some of its all- time with leaders of various nations. economic summits. recently the climate change summit in copenhagen. any thoughts to having some sort of anti-tourism summit? in the near future or future? guest: there is some speculation on that front. -- of some type of anti- terrorism summit. guest: there are some thoughts of that. someone in europe might decide to host a summit like that to show they're doing something. host: the last call from sego lily, texas -- seagoville. caller: i'm wondering why we're so concerned about this unkind of traffic.

i will go to latin america or canada and come in to really do damage. i can't believe they don't do something about our borders before the start of this crap about the air traffic. another thing, why you having so many democrats calling in today? i have watched you for years. usually are pretty well balanced. host: sir? guest: i think the caller is pointing to our government not thinking of the box. it is a good question as to whether people can arrive from other places. i have not been any attacks coming from the south. there have been plots through canada. maybe we should look north as well, not just south.

host: evan perez of "the wall street journal" thanks for being with us. host: we will take a short break and when we return we'll talk from someone from the unemployment apartment. çó-- the unemployment departmen. ♪ >> world bank and imf discussions this morning live from the carnegie endowment for international peace at 10:00 a.m. eastern rafter of "washington journal."

at noon, how social programs are affected by the recession and increased poverty. sociologists will meet today. this oining on c-span3 energy experts from business, government, and academic and share ideas on efficiency, sustainability, and smart card technology. all of today's events also live on c-span.org. >> there is less than one month left to enter the 2010 student cam contest. $50,000 in prizes. just create a five to eight minute video. it must incorporate c-span programming and show varying points of view. enter before midnight january 20. winning entries will be shown on

c-span. "washington journal" continues. host: jane is an assistant secretary with the department of labour and is here to talk to us about unemployment benefits. several states are saying that they expect to run not in the next couple of years. if they do, what will they do? guest: first of all, rob, thanks so much for doing this topic. we are glad to get the information to people. this was built so that the federal government would always be there to loan money to the states when they needed. president obama with the recovery act is faced with that. right now we have 26 states borrowing. by 2012 we anticipate 40 states will be borrowing.

host: the top five states that have borrowed so far according to the department of labor include california, michigan, new york, ohio, and pennsylvania. california at the top with nearly $6 billion. pennsylvania at nearly $2 billion. where is the money coming from? does the federal government seriously expect the state ever to pay the money back? guest: there is no question that right now the anticipation is that all of the states will pay it back. they pay back over the years. probably up until about 2020. it is no surprise the five stages mentioned are once hard hit by unemployment. they have had industries not only downsized believe, as with michigan. michigan has been in double- digit unemployment for over a

year. through no fault of their own these states are in a position where they are out of money. the base wage employers pay into the u.i. trust fund has not changed in 25 years. when you have more using benefits and have not increased the amount of revenue, you'll come up with the situation short on funds. the federal government is there. nobody goes without benefits. host: is a strictly for benefits or can be used for retraining as well? guest: no, strictly for benefits to qualified workers who have lost their jobs. host: this is jane oates of the department of labor and we would like to get involved in the conversation. we have a special number this morning for those unemployed, 628-0814.

you can also send us thmessage s by e-mail and by twitter. what is the average amount of time people spinning unemployed? guest: right now it is about 20 weeks. november is the latest month we have the most correct information on. to give you a sense how tough that is, in november 2008 it was 18 weeks. host: in the state subdue the benefits extend to 28 weeks? guest: each is different. each has at least 26 weeks. the average now the states having more is up to about 35. the most weeks you can collect is 99.

people should check with their own state. you will have a map available on your website. that changes weekly. in the recovery act of the president put it in an extended an emergency money. again, the extended benefits depend on the unemployment within your own state. callers can check yours or our website or call us. anywhere between 26 and 99 weeks. host: pat on the line for democrats. caller: i am a progressive democrat. i am extraordinarily concerned about the ridiculous length of time we are allowing unemployment benefits to be extended. there is a zero incentive for

people to go look for employment when you're given this card barge extraordinarily long time to be on the dole. in a political operative. i have noticed that major corporations are manipulating construct to keep unemployment high sticking give another republican back in the office. i guarantee the want to keep unemployment beyond 10% in order to assault the president of the united states. i hope people wake up and see what corporate america is doing. guest: things for your comments. i understand. many people are questioning -- might on ties are with norlannon

ireland. the dole is the word used there. the. u.i. but if it is $380 per week. this replaces about one-third of the wages they were making. when i go around the country i hear people who would do anything to get a job. a year very few stories about people saying please keep me on unemployment clunker. people are nervous, anxious. there are so many people in the country who have never been unemployed before and never dreamed they would be in. we look at the fact that they cannot pay their mortgages. i hear and respect your opinion, but the people i hear would give it anything to get off unemployment and to get a good job. will be watching for fraud cases. if anyone is offered a job and does not take it -- that is

fraud. we go after them to repay their unemployment. if they are not actively looking for work and we find out about that through our random audits, they are really removed from the rolls and have to repay unemployment. we are trying to be diligent about going after those. i would ask you to really consider those who are actively looking and who were so anxious to get back to work. host: the next call comes from james in georgia. you are unemployed? caller: yes, sir, i am. i have been unemployed since january 2008. i have a question for the assistant secretary. and something of a c-span junkie. i watched congress last year when it passed the 13-week extension. i live in georgia.

when the benefit came down the line and we got letters from the local department of labor, and only set was eligible for seven weeks -- it only set was eligible for seven weeks. once i got laid off decided to return to school to get retraining. i wondered if there is anything in the latest bill of extension benefits -- particularly for those who have been displaced and are in school tried to get retrained? is there any provision to maybe help those? host: james, hold on. you were told you would get seven weeks? caller: yes, after congress passed the 13-week extension. host: or a seven-week extension

of what you already had? caller: yes, an extension. i think i only received 50% of the benefits. host: on the map. says that georgia has up to 99 weeks of potential unemployment insurance. guest: yes, for some of your callers with individual questions by james we would be willing to get back to them to talk about their specifics. he made a great decision to go back to school to get retrained. i would strongly urge him to look at his training provider. to see if he is eligible for a pell grant. they are available to anyone who has not already gotten a four- year degree. for the can help not only with

tuition, but books and fees and transportation. host: next up is tacoma on the line for republicans. caller: i think the extensions on unemployment to 99 weeks is way too much. i think it hinders the problem and makes it worse. people are getting complacent. i owned a small lansky business. i'm fine and hard to get the guys who were working for me back. -- by own a small landscape business. they are happy with the way things are. they know in a long time until

runs out. they're happy with the way things are. host: washington is one of those states with up to 99 weeks. guest: yes, i respect both mike and pat in thinking that 99 weeks is too long. especially with mike saying he could not get people to return to work for his landscaping business. the fact is more americans than ever went back to seasonal farmworker over the summer. we do guest permits. everyone from college students to adults were picking fruit last summer. they could not get another job. to employers like mike if you cannot find people, please list york jobs with our one-stop centers.

host: the department of labor has a national call center. 1-877-us2jobs. who isñi this number for and wht kind of information will they get? guest: it is a help line for people having trouble with their benefits. if they have specific questions it is hard to give the answer. the job they had before there were displaced, how many weeks the worked -- all of that is different from state to state. one example. sometimes if your partner or spouse is transferred by their job and you transferred along with them in some states to

would be eligible for unemployment, but not in others. those things are really good questions. for those are good for the help line. if i moved from pennsylvania to minnesota what are my options in terms of benefits? host: next up is atlanta, georgia on the line for independents. caller: i have been unemployed for 13 months and have sent out hundreds of resonatumes. the department of labor requires your full day of birth including the year. i thought that was illegal. am i incorrect? many jobs i applied for her, and require you to inser answer wher

you are above four years old. many are recruited by at &t and that company requires your social security number. the pell grant is wonderful, but i have a degree and have a computer programmer and can i get a job. i want to take continuing education courses, but i can't take those takea pell grant because those don't have credit associated with them. guest: first of all, mark, my heart is really out to you about being unemployed for 13 months. it is difficult. if you have a bachelor's degree you are not eligible for a pell grant. i suggest going to the one-stop which is operated in conjunction with the georgia department of

labor, but by the federal government, and find other opportunities available for retraining or retooling. with your computer schools in not need a lot. maybe just a different software program or familiarity with different networks. additionally, the department of labour in january will put out $500 million in training grant money. it is competitive money. it will not be in every area. but for those with difficulty and looking for training opportunity, keep watching your newspapers. to grants in your local areas will be great opportunities. green and emerging jobs, allied health -- many of those will be about i.t. we will announce one grant per week for the month of january.

we will probably award 50 or 60 grants. i hope we will hit every state as long as each state applied. host: how is the unemployment program set up? who is responsible for making sure those who are unemployed get the money? guest: it is a cooperative effort between the federal government and the states. the states are ultimately responsible for making certain workers get the check they deserve. the federal government as the backlog, the loans. but also bringing states together along with associations to get best practices out there. especially with technology. you will hear some problems states have had implementing the new extension programs because of their antiquated technology. the states are working on that. our role is to help them get the

most they can without an insurgents of new money. host: our next call comes from green bay, wisconsin. trevor is unemployed. caller: hello. during the election process obama talked about not find a free trade agreements. i was wondering why nothing has been mentioned about that since he has taken office? host: how long have you been unemployed? what you think free trade has something to do with it? caller: because we are competing with the slave labor force in china, indonesia, and all those other countries. when you are paying someone 50

cents per day it is hard to compete with someone at minimum wage at $7 per hour. host: what kind of job were you doing? caller: i am a carpenter. guest: i'm not the expert on free-trade, but i can tell you one positive thing president obama did. last summer he put a tax on tires. that was a brave stance. i was with senator brown from ohio when it happened. all of us think of ohio as the tire couple of the u.s. because of that tariff on chinese altair's folks in ohio had already seen an increase in production. there were two employers who not only stop layoffs, but brought workers by. i agree that if we make our products a bit more competitive we can get americans back to work. also, i would say our folks in commerce and trade and the

export/import bank have been working with small employers and mid-sized ones to get them to realize that if they try to do business outside the u.s. borders to compete globally with american-made products, it would also create jobs. those guys could probably give you some impressive good news already in the first year of obama's presidency. embassador kirk has been doing a 01-man show. they have been doing a wonderful job getting the message out. i encourage you to have them on the show about what they're doing. it is a great way to increase productivity. more businesses are looking into that. host: next up is michael in baltimore. caller: 01 to let folks know

what they're the people who are on unemployment are not just sitting around eating bon bons. unemployment does not cut it at all. a get the maximum. i have been unemployed for six months. i get $410 per week. i was making $49 per week and was a six-figure earner. there might be a small population of their milking the system, but it cannot be for much. there were probably not an insignificant amounts. -- i was making $1,400 per week previously. i'm even looking for jobs in over-qualified for. we have not talked about the o under-employed people. guest: you are exactly right.

there are 15 million unemployed and 10 million are eligible to collect. there are another 9 million working part-time were still actively looking for full-time jobs. i am so glad when unemployed people who are the consummate all the time call to and to let people know this is not a great situation. going from $1,400 per week like michael unfortunately, for many we're not making" we were and our mortgage, credit card balances all reflect that. you have such a reduction in your weekly income and that seriously impacts your life style. that is not taking a vacation. host: this message by twitter asks if there's any change in the average benefit of new claims. guest: there is.

sprthe average benefit has remad pretty constant among states. $293 is the national average for a weekly claim. things that would change that are the levels of people getting unemployed. michael from baltimore said he made it $1,300 per week and is eligible for $410. even though there are higher wage people being displaced in the recession, because michael is looking at jobs his over- qualified for, they're pushing out low-wage workers. the numbers of low-wage workers it is not adjusted for inflation. the benefits stay about the same

in states. that is based on people's former wages. host: woodbridge, va. caller: i have two points to make. i want to shake the guy's hand, the carpenter. he hit it on the head. the competition from china -- i am a small business owner and we are about 85% export. we have doubled the size of our force in the last year. the reason why it is because the dollar is in the tank. for exporters we like that. it is the only thing helping to compete against the chinese. they take better product, reverse engineering, and compete globally against us. i credit the obama administration for putting a tariff on tires.

they need to expand it drastically. when we take a car into korea it is 50% the value of the vehicle. it is ridiculous. the second point, an emblem of benefits are helpful, but i think people should pay it back once they have a job. -- unemployment benefits are helpful, but people should pay them back. guest: think you very much. it is great to hear a small businessman doing that kind of export business. it is terrific and i hope it spreads like contagion. host: the next call comes from remand in michigan. you are unemployed? caller: yes, and i am a design engineer. i have a 40 years in the business.

that is automotive and went through aerospace. my problem is that a lot of our jobs are going to foreign countries like china and india. in making $60 per hour in their only making $12. [unintelligible] i cannot compete against the pay scale. guest: especially in michigan which has been so hard hit would

double-digit unemployment for the past year, the automobile and industry in a time of change reducing the number of people they will need -- and people in this recession with 40 years -- a previous caller bringing up the subject of age -- it is difficult to get a job that pays you for your experience. older workers find it particularly hard to get jobs at the same replacement wage. it will be slower for them to come back. if anyone believes they are being discriminated against because of their age they should let us know immediately. we will investigate. we believe that season the workers will be incredibly important to rebuild the

economy. host: chicago, on the line for democrats. caller: the older workers are being discriminated against. it has happened to me also. and you call it employment and training. i went to the one-stop program to be approved to go to school. i went to school for a month, but the next month i got a letter. i was going from a 30 a.m. until 4:30 p.m. it said that it still felt i could find a job so cut me off unemployment. guest: give the screener your information. people should be entitled to complete their training. host: the number of the bottom

of the screen there for the national call center. jane oates, thank you very much for being on the program. we will take a short break and when we return we will talk with robert from the center of new american security about al qaeda in yemen. ♪ . .

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go to student.org for contest rules and info. host: richard fontaine joins us from the center for new american securities to talk to us about al qaeda in yemen. good morning and welcome to the program. guest: morning. host: in the financial times this morning as well as in other papers they are talking about al qaeda seemingly making a haven or seeking to make yemen a safe haven. why is this so attractive for them to be there? >> well, there's several reasons, first is the inability of the central government to extend its control over the country, and there's been a lot of turmoil the country is facing, not north and separatist movement in the south diminishing their natural resources and 10th government resources devoted to the fight is going down. there's also the geographic

location of yemen. on the southern portion of saudi arabia. makes it attractive. trying to launch attacks into saudi arabia. so putting all that together makes it attractive. >> how much opposition has the government of yemen tried to put up to root out al qaeda and work with other countrys to put al qaeda out of business altogether? >> well, it's been on and off.ñi following the 9/11 attacks then 2003 and 2004. went a long way. there was a sense that al qaeda was defeat indeed yemen but then in 2006 there was a major prison break which helped to reconstitute the organization. sips that time the government has been mostly focused on the security threats that it deems central athletes its own internal ability to govern the

country, and that is the separatist momentum in the south and insurgence as i in the north. so it's will to deal with al qaeda until recently has been quite limited. >> you've got an op-ed under the headline yemen's coming disaster. they are set to run out of oil in 2017 but yemen hasn't planned for the post riden population's past-oil future. >> guest: that's very much a part of it. a very large percentage of the population is below the age of 15. the po population which is already pourous in the arab world is expected to double in the coming years. and as you just said, the oil revenue that the government gets makes up perhaps 80% of

the spire budget of the central government of yemen. and when in less than 10 years all of the oil is expected to run out in yemen, and there is no plan for what to do next to make up for that revenue. host: we're talking with richard fontaine with the center for new american security in yemen. if you want to get involved until our conversation, you can call the democrats line or republicans line or independents' line. you can also send us an email or twitter, if you've called in the last 30 days today would be the day to do that as well. you also say in your op-ed that it's just one of the threats. the deteriorating situation in yemen poses to u.s. interests, what's the other?

>> one is the instrumental instability in the kin. with the insurgence as i in the north, the presence of al qaeda, limited government resources, the challenge the government will have both in terms of population, diminishing public resources because of the decline in revenues, it's sort of the perfect storm for instability across the country. that makes ate nice safe haven for terrorists. but beyond that it also suggests the possibility that yemen will break up or become a truly failed state and export the instability northward into saudi arabia or eastward into yemen or become a safe haven for piratesñi because somalia i just across the way. the threats go beyond the terrorism. host: our first call comes from florida, tony on our line for

republicans, you're on the "washington journal." caller: hi. i'm just a -- sorry. ok. yes. i'm justçóñr curious about spea about yemen. yemen has always been a safe haven for some terrorist groups. i mean, i've known this when i was in the army. now all of a sudening we're putting yemen on the map. i'm wondering why we haven't done anything years ago in doing what we should have been doing a few years ago. guest: well, that's not a bad point. >> as i mentioned before guest: in late 2001 and 2002 and 2003 there was great focus by the united states on the problems of terrorism and in giving assistance to the government of yemen and following 2003 when there was a sense that al qaeda had been defeat indeed yemen, much of that dropped off.

the amount 06 attention, the amount of resources that we gave to yemen dropped off significantly. and since 2006, with the reconstitution of al qaeda in yemen, only platedly has the united states sort of focused again on the problem there and of course the reason why we're talking about it this morning is because omar farooq aomar that took took omar farooq kathwari was coming from yemen. caller: my question is how long have we been with this war against yemen? i mean, i don't mean to go to a conspiracy theory but i read in ha general petraeus and another went down there so when tough head of arms services committee

go to yemen, they are not just going to see if it's -- >> well, i wouldn't characterize it at all as a war in yemen. and senator mccain is my former boss. i worked for him for 5 1/2 years on foreign policy and so i can state categorically what was on his mind and our minds in that visit was not a war against yemen but rather an attempt to try to get a better sense of the challenges that face the country and what was going on there, and how the united states might inject its policies toward yemen in light of it. host: tell us about that trip. and is that a reason to be concerned that we may eventually see u.s. troops in yes, ma'am snn guest: i think you will see an increase in u.s. advisory capacity and security assistance. thoose already been

announcements that the u.s. will double security to yemen from around $70 million and the visit by general petraeus and john brennan the top offensive coordinator in the white house, i believe have been focused not on deploying his own american troops about ways in which she might assist the services if their fight against al qaeda. host: next up algiers, alex. go ahead. caller: i'd like to submit that the motivations for this are not so much terrorism as the $5 bhl to i.m. sfment and has loaned since september of this past year, to yemen. the unrest in yemen, if the

people there that have been under the suppression of the tyrannical government and core government there for the past four decades succeed in overthrowing the government, i.m.f. is going to be on the hunt for that $5 billion. now the anomaly is in the highjacking itself. one, i hear no main stream media bringing up the united nations accounts of the zwhrea helped the individual get on the plane. the accused highjacker, or bomber. there was another man that filmed the accused for the entire flight. there's no mention of the main stream media of this. the f.b.i. has no mention of him then there was the man who was detained after the flight landed. there were two people arrested. the f.b.i. lied about that. change it's their story five now we have this man that's accused, comes from yemen the

-- not just the banker, the banker there, one of the most corrupt countries in the world. and he is -- he didn't so much go -- "my speculation." he didn't go there to warn. he was thereñi toñi sacrifice h son to say hey, i got this here. i don't see anything coming from the main stream media on this. to get hit on the fact that we're going now into terrorists for terrorism. host: thanks alex, we're going to leave it there. guest: well i have not seen or heard of any evidence that would suggest that this alleged terrorist father was attempting to sacrifice his son. on the contrary, he seemed to

warn about his son's importantly sfloment islamic extremism. >> the idea that the imf is some somehow ar tick late its reasons for carrying out specific attacks. >> and if there was one that referenced the i.m.f. attack, i guess i missed it. host: secretary of state clinton, we'll hear what she has to say. >> obviously we see global implications from the war in yemen and the ongoingxd efforts by al qaeda in yemen to use it as a base for terrorist attacks far beyond the region. soñr we are going to listen and consult with those who have longhorns experience in yemen, such as his majesty and

excellence cri and others, and work together to try to encourage the government take steps that will lead to a more lasting period of peace and stability. >> as his excellence as i has said, there's been numerous conflict ins yemen and seem to get worse and worse with more players involved, and it's time for the international community to make it clear to yemen that their expectations and conditions are continuing support for the government so that they can take actions that will have a better chance to provide the peace and stability to the people of yemen and the region. host: your comments? guest: i think that's right. there's a global threat we can still focused on yemen and

guest: and we now know the ambitions are beyond that and include the american homeland. the one thing i will add is it's important that u.s. policy be focused not only on counterterrorism, that's obviously a very crucial element. but security assistance and security operations alone are not going to solve the problems that yemen has. in order to mitigate some of the immediate yare and long-term problems it has, it's going to eninclude development, aid, dip plome as i in an attempt to eliminate the conflict in the north and as well as pressure on the government sproff its governance and human rights practices. host: reporting the u.s. beached re-opened today after a two-day closure, the ambassador

says counterterrorism operations have allowed the security situation in the capital has always been under to -- guest: i don't think that the security situation in the capital has always been under control. as an anecdotal piece of evidence, when i traveled there in august, we walked around the old city of sana and were under heavy military simply because the security situation is not what everyone would hope it would be. the ambassador personnel are under some fairly tough restrictions in terms of where they can go and that sort of thing. the ambassador did reopen and that was atributed to military operations that the government carried out in the last several days against the suspected al

qaeda members and the government at least seems to believe that that got rid of the threat, the direction of the u.s. ambassador. but i point out the ambassador, itself, was bombed in 2008 and there's been credible threats against the ambassador of the united kingdom, france, japan, germany, so i think there's probably a long way to go in terms of the security situation. host: next up bonita springs, florida, welcome to the "washington journal." caller: well, thank you, very much. you know, 50eu6 been listening a lot about the te)orists, but my question is why are we focused so much on the the terrorists come in and there's no change. 9-1 1 would have been avoided that had officer been trained. and when he was stopped on the way to the airport, because he had no authorization to detain them, let them go to the

airport. it's a owner in fact that less than 60 townies in our country have officers that are trained in 287-g. so my question is there's a lot of terrorists coming into our country over the borders. but i guess at the risk of -- >> mark, what is 2787 g? >> that's the immigration that counters with the flafere has -- to do that yet if they do they come in on a plane that they want to sneak in on the country and there's no way officers can even pull them over if they appear to be having illegal status in our country. guest: host: we' guest: well, this particular bomber, did have a advicea to spr the united states and was able to be on a plane. so i'm not sure what the caller

identifies as a possible seclusion that applies in this case. host: daniel on our line for democrats. go ahead. caller: may i start by saying i wish i had your haberdasher, i wish i could afford your haberdasher, because you address meticulously and quite often you have a very presentable clothing. i particularly liked your orange tie the other day, but beyond all that, this whole business, or not business per se, but it just represents a fact that we've got a bunch of bureaucrats running arnled, stealing taxpayers' dollars, they are and they are totally incompetent. this one that went from lawless nigeria to detroit, i mean, he had a red flag like a -- well,

anyways, i'm really frustrate that had that situation even developed as far as it did, and thank goodness no one was injured, but i'll leave it like that. host: you mean richard fontaine in this morning's washington post, this headline, yepen walked a fine line and a pure backlash where many align with al qaeda, what kind of tenuous situation is the government in over there as far as trying to appear independent while supporting neweth guest: well, that is the fine line they are trying to walk, and they've been through this experience before. in 2002 a u.s. drone strike took out an al qaeda operative along with several other individuals, and the united states took credit for the killing of these al qaeda operatives in 2002.

that put the government of yes, ma'am engine a difficult place ethically because there was backlash against the president and rest of the government for working closely with the united states to carry this out. so what the president tapped government are trying to do is work quietly with the united states, particularly because of the new pressure they were coming under. since the attempted bombing. but at the same time not look to their own people like they are somehow in the pocket of the united states. host: back to the phones. arlene, for the independents go ahead. caller: hi. happy new year to everyone. i just have a quick comment and the thing to do is just close up the borders. it doesn't have to be on a permanent basis. let's just do it. quite frankly i'm tired of all this talk about transparency and the money being forwarded

to these other countries. our country is in the toilet. we got to take care of what we have first before we go worrying about iraq, iran, afghanistan, we've been supporting germany and vietnam since the war. now we got billions and billions of dollars going out of this country to asia and other nation. we need to stop this. this country needs to take care of this country first. we pay people millions of dollars, congressmen, senators, millions not to farm their land. i can't afford to go buy an acre of land because it's priced out of my realm and we're paying people not to farm when we've got people starving in this country. there's something wrong with this picture. host: eh, we're kind of going off the rail there. how much money are we sending to yes, ma'am snn >> for 2009 it was about $70 million. and i believe that the figure

for development was something on the order of $30 million. boat of those will be pushed up sfaptly in 2010. there's been some talk of tripling the clip to $100 million and doubleing the security assistance to perhaps $140 million. but i think it's also important to note that while the figures are significantly higher than they were before, they are going from a low level over the past several years and compared to what we spend on a weekly basis in iraq and afghanistan there's almost a rounding there. host: what do you mean are there any strippings attached to the money we send other there? guest: well some depose to the anti-corruption agency to help with the corruption problem to building hospitals, to developing projects around the country and that sort of thing.

i'm not aware of any publicly explicit conditions put on the assistance but the there's always with these things a sort of an understanding with the government about how theseñr projects will go forward and how these moneys will be used and how we will go forward to increase or cease. host:ñi you're on the "washingt journal" with mr. fontaine. caller: israel didn't exist, this war is all about israel. all we're doing is fighting wars in the middle east for israel. if this didn't exist we would want have goten attacked on 9-11 and have our first amendment rights taken away. host: mary, i don't really anybody on the flane went in the towers being from israel. caller: um, they are not fro israel but that's why we're getting attacked is because of our support. guest: if you look at why the

ar ticklated reasons are for -- for example, al qaeda and yemen carrying out attacks in yemen or the attack in the united states, i don't think you'll see israel much anywhere as the reason. they stateed the reasons being the humiliation of islam or for u.s. actions around the world or the yemeni government so, it's very difficult for me to see the attachment between al qaeda and israel. host: don, go ahead. caller: yes. i wanted to thank c-span. mr. fontaine, i heard the government was reving up about the talks of yemen. lope and behold christmas day that guy was allowed to be on that plane. if it wasn't for american passengers stopping him, he would have gone through with

his plan. another thing is all i see every time this goes on, we get moore rules against and the bottom line is do you believe in the u.s. constitution and bill of rights because all i see is the moral stripping of our rights and bottom line this very popular in this country. host: thanks for your call, don. guest: well, i guess one of the points that i might extract from that call is this sort of increasing, the ripple effect that these terrorist attacks have on the ability of americans, particularly when it comes to air travel, those who travel frequently know how rigorous the security checks have been. so in that sense, it's fortunate look these attempted attacks not only targeted or having an affect directly on those it might harm, but also

the sort of ripple effect it has. host: our last call for mr. fontaine. go ahead. caller: how are you doing? off good show here today but let me ask this question, and the comment i want to make is that is we as americans, we tend to -- police the war, second thing is in the different countries, you see good for the al qaeda movement. but where you see the people different and 90% of the cases is where theçó american policie have not incluesed what the indigenous people really and when we try to impose and rest on style it really and truly

disrupted this 3406789 and just gives them the ability to grow against what we believe in and the way we live in america. and we must take into consideration when our policies are set, that these are muslim people and islam -- naturally. it's not something that's been imposed or can be preached to them. and their values will diminish by western culture. i would like really and truly for your guests to answer as to whether or not he has seen or if they are winds going change guest: i think there's a deterioration and also a connection between the govern nance and lack of govern nance in places like yemen and the

degree of disaffection amongst the population, those temperatures they see not to be a source of our problem and other maps. the relationship the united states has with yemen has to be based on more than simply counterterrorism. not because we want to impose our own vision of what american-style government is in yemen but because of the -- it seems clearly that the source of the disaffection and sympathy characterized in other parts of the country. host: richard fontaine has been our guest from the center for a newñi american suitor security. if you want to read his op-ed atñrñi "l.a. times."com yemen's coming disaster. thank you for being on. >> thank you. >> we're going to take a short

break and come back and take your laws. -- take your calls. >> world bank and imf officials are looking ahead to what's ahead for the world economy. live from the carnegie endowment for international peace. at noon, how government programs that many provide the so called safety net are affected by the recession. and they so -- on c-span. this morning on c-span 3, energy experts from business, government and the academic world share ideas on energy efficient as i, sustainibility

and smart grid technology. live on c-span 3 and our events are also live at c-span.org. >> now available, c-span's book, abraham lincoln, great american historian and great read for hi ni history buff. to his life in the white house and hiss relevance today. abraham lincoln. and now in digital audio to listen to any time available where digital audio downloads are available. learn more at c-span.org/lincoln book. "washington journal" continues. host: we are going to be looking at an item on this front page of this morning's washington post to regulate page for terrors to reduce errors. this is by david he woulden

wrath saying the irs beginning to screen those who do tax returns the agency wants to crack down on preparers who do shot shoddy or fraudulent work and create ways for consumers to to make better choices and could have an increase on the returns prepared. if you want to discuss, call our democrats, republicans or independents line. you can also send us an email or twitter. the article depose on to say the announcement underscores the fact that healthy americans complying with the tax code has become big business.

the industry is a sprawling one takeing in big-name players such as h & r block and jackson huet and mom and pop practitioners who hang out their shingles each tax season and the fly-by-night operators who can leave taxpayers on their own when the irs finds fault with their returns. many prepare taxes without being officially tested. right now the irs doesn't know who the unregulated prepareers are and can't track them when there's a problem. this ultimately hurts the taxpayers who end up having to pay more taxes, fines and penalties. this was from the issue years rag. on the jump paming of this washington post article they go on to say that starting with

the 2011 tax season irs plans to require paid tax prepareers to register with the agency. subsequently the time line is not yet firm. but they will be required to pass competency tests and receive continuing education. the irs says it will screen prepareers to make sure they have paid their own taxes and write last year almost 94 million returns were completed using tax software. those relied on the program, so quality control over these products rests exclusively with the software publishers, stays irs. so we're going to be talking about a proposal by the irs so to the start regular lathe paid tax prepareers. fwant get your thoughts on that. our first call comes from ill irblings mary on our line for democrats. caller: i 4. i think the problem is -- the

forms got more and mohr complex and a person should be able to do them themselves and not count on somebody else to prepare their taxes. it's ridiculous what the americans that the americans have to go to a tax preparer. host: do you do your own taxs? >> i pay for somebody to do them and they charged me an awful lot last time. i have family trust situation, so i don't dare try to do it myself. host: and how much did you have to pay? caller: i paid the man $900. it was a company that was really outrageous. host: $900? caller: yes. it was $500 the year before. host: so you've had to pay people on more than one occasion to do your tacks?

caller: i've had to pay them since i became a widow. host: are you using the same person over and over again? are you confident in their services? caller: they are competent because they know what information i need. it's complicated. 40eu7 would you feel more comfortable if you knew they were regulated and had to pass some sort of test to be ok'd by the irs? caller: they are competent. i'm not worried about their competence at all. i think they just charge too much. host: you're on the "washington journal." caller: yes.ñi good morning. i think it's the best thing i've heard in quite a while, because i've actually seen a paid tax preparer take a person who was on the short form and

actually on some tax forms all you got to do is put in certain fees, sign your team in and send them in and you don't even have to do the math. i've seen some of thesal people do that. and usually it's poor people who have a high school education who got a meanwhile job. and they think that they are going to get a lot of money back if they go to, to these pirates which they really are. all they are going to do is get back to what the internal revenue service do and if you have a problem with the taxes, go to the irs. they not a bad people to deal with. they have back tacks, and where you can go in and get your records for like 2007 and 2008. and they have it all. even if you don't have your w 2's. they have all of that

information. host: do you generally do your own taxes or do you pay somebody to do them for you? caller: i do long form taxes but it's one thing about what they really want you to do. they want you to use a person who is qualified, a cpa. and well right here in richmond if you just have a job, buying a house and simple interest stuff, somebody will do your taxes for $100 or $150. but i've seen people go to a tax preparer who has the tush beau tax and they sit down right in front of you and use the computer and then charge you $150 just while you watch them. and i've seen people do that. i tell you something else, too. you'll find out that a lot of these individuals come off these eye lands like different

islands around us. jamaicans, they are good at that. they are good at taking your money and charging you money and they look at the paverpbl black person in the united states like they are stupid. host: we'll leave it there. we got your twitter message from joe who says maybe they ought to have timothy excite they are in to make sure they know how to pay taxes. more from the washington post certain exemptions might exempt some known as enrolled agents clear to represent taxpayers in dealing with the irs and already subject to the professional or requirement translated irs says they will take a closer look at the performance of those groups and has not ruled out testing them in the future. andy, what's on your mind? >> well, i'm definitely against

the irs getting any more regulatory powers. it's pretty obvious the guy that you just that had twitter, that he can't do his tacks how can they help us do our taxes better? they are incompetent at everything they do, they need abolish the irs if anything. that's all i got to say. host: boring file clerk writes no more regulation should be placed on the irs and they should stop levying fees and punitive taxes. caller: i believe they should be regulated and i don't know why it's taken them this long to come out with this. but i think that the many problems sound like there has to be some kind of standards federally and state level that

even for efiling there's no gáááá)r'g for5a whoever isñrxd your taxes.çóçó host: do you do your own taxs? caller: i'm a person who can read andñi write but never thought about trying to figure make no mistakes so i go to someone who prepare it-for-me pay like $150. host: do you feel you would have more confidence if the person doing your taxes had to be licensed by the government in the caller: i probably would judge if that person is a good or not preparers there has to be standards. i mean, it's just so funny that i always thought i prorblee get some refund.ñr

sometimesñhr i payñiñrçóñi some getñrçóñixdñiçóççñixdñixdñrçóñ somebody get that big and somebody else in the same range. host: maybe you should have that guy doing your taxes . thanks for your call. a little bit more from the article in "the washington post." the irs regulating tax return preparation. a 2006 study in which employees of the government accountability office posed as taxpayers and visited tax prepare chains all 19 prepareers made mistakes. only two of the 19 arrived at the correct bottom line. several did not ask about income from sources other than wages and 10 of the 19 did not report such income even when they were told about it, the irs said. and in a 2008 study 17-28

prepareers got the bottom line wrong. back to the phones. okeechobee, florida, mv. >> yes, sir i had a problem with the irs that left me with a bad taste in my mouth. my mother of my wife did it and had alzheimer's and for some reason she didn't pay our taxes for five years and got a call from the i.r.s. and i couldn't pay it off at one time. i sent them a check for -- [inaudible] and made an offer to pay them $500 a month. they agreed to this. i was prepared for a trip to mexico where i was a consultant and i had to go down there. and i got a call one morning from the irs, mr. james you owe

us $1,000. and i said i sent you $1,000, why do you need another? they said well we got your $1,000 check but we can't find out who got the money [inaudible] host: yes? so if you had someone who was regulated by the irs do you think you would have made out better? caller: no. i think they are totally incompetent. host: thanks for your call. the washington times this morning this headline u.s. sides with tribe ins wind farm case. andrew meega writes federal officials on monday agreed to a request by two indian tribes for special precks for nan tuck et a movement that could delay construction of a proposed wind farm off cape cod, mastercard.

the tribe to welcomeed the, practice sacred rituals requiring an unblocked view of the sun ridse. that will not exist if the cape cod wind turbine project is built. the turbines will be visible to the tribes and on martha's vineyard. read more about that in the washington times. gainesville, florida. on our line for independents what do you think of the irs regulating tax prepareers? caller: i think the question is more complex than posed but number one the irs doesn't need -- but the idea is a good idea because what's happening, i've prepared my own taxes and gone to the irs and sat down with them and represented myself and

came out there but i had all my stuff. i had all the stuff together. so number one, the irs can help. second thing is what's happening here is -- i'm not going to say their name on the show but there's an industry that preys on poor people and my gants and people that don't speak the english language very well. they have locations on corners, and they are sort of like a bank. they will give you a free, i don't know, some kind of a free money order or something if you come in there, and those are the people that prey on people. and they are not very well regulated if at all, so are we looking at tax prepareers, are we looking at the financial institutions that prey, and i say prey because they do. you can do the numbers and --

that prey on poor people and people that can't speak the language. that's the end of my diatribe. host: thank you. democrats line? caller: i'm an aarp tax volunteer and i'm often amazed at the level of testing that we are required to go through. basically we go through tax returns for mostly seniors and low-middle-income people. host: and you're tested by aarp? caller: no. we're tested by the irs required in order for us to do the volunteer work. at this time of the year i typically spend two weeks in preparation for the exam which means getting poet up to speed on the latest tax software and as well as the latest tax laws. so the idea that if you're

doing it as a public service, you need to be tested, yet if you're getting paid, you don't have to be tested seems a little ironic. >> how expensive is the test you have to take? >> the aarp there's no cost for us as vol ears to. host: but to be a volunteer you have to be tested by the ir is? caller: we're tested by the aarp that's given from the irs. the test, let me say this. i would say it would resolve 90% of the problems that most taxpayers handle. in other words, i could handle personally probably anything other than a super complex estate tax return on a volunteer basis. i live in the suburb of san diego.

we have affluent people that have fairly complex tax returns. we are trained to handle those. and so it seems to me that it would make no sense not regulate to pay people if the irs is requiring thousands of aarp volunteers to be tested. host: now after this has anyone you've done tax returns for been called in for an audit? caller: not that i am aware of. as volunteers we're immunized, obviously i wouldn't do this if i thought there was personal liability. host: yes but if someone was auditted they would want to call you up and give you a piece of their mind.ñr

caller: i've been doing this close to five years and i haven't heard of anybody, certainly in our area being subject to any kind of problems. again, our returns are more basic returns. so we require that the taxpayer bring in documentation. we wouldn't process a return unless the taxpayer actually had the physical 1099 forms and what have you with them when they came spot office. host: thanks for your call. on the front page of the -- a story on one of the operatives killed in afghanistan last week.ñiñrñr scott robinsonñi was working fo the cia when he was chilled in afghanistan last week but two former colleagues, he was all cop. i'm sad scott's gone but i know he was there. he wanted to be said saar jept

mike o'connor who joined the apd shortly after robert son in the mid 1990's, he was a real policeman said o'connor.ñr caller: i have a suggestion that maybe the irs people who audit or who regulate, maybe we ought to have them tested and i'll pet you if we had a half dozen of them tested and very -- discrepancies in the -- in what you got as an answer even with the irs just because of the complications of the tax laws. what we ought to do is simple

phi the tax laws before we start regulating prepareers, maybe we should help them prepare, help them to get a little more information, but it's complicated that even the tax prepareers from the irs, i'll bet you -- host: "the denver post" racial gaps in suspensions. colorado minority students rate still higher than white. black public school students in colorado are three times as likely to face serious discipline as their white peers a disparity that's consistently growing despite the efforts to curb it.xd about 70,000 or 8.5% of the 818,000 students were suspended expelled or disciplined for being disruptive according to a "denver post" analysis of newly released data. reasons ranged from gun and

alcohol possession -- ranged from drug, we were and alcohol infractions to disobedient behavior. and a crack down on achte security some airports said they hadn't cracked down. the u.s. demanded more security from those flying from 14 nations deemed a security risk. everything is the same, there's no extra security said an aviation official in lebanon, one of the; countries onñi the list.ñiñiñi he spoke under anonymity becauseñi he was not authorized to speak publicly. back to theçó phones, arlington texas, tom on our line for independents. caller: good morning. host: what do you think of the irs proposal to regulate tax

prepareers? caller: my wife and i had our own book keeping tax business and we shut it down because by law can't refuse service to anybody and we had so many illegal aliens coming into our place and with fake social security cards that we had to override the program to be able to even enter it then we after we did this to be honest we sent in all these photoçóçóñiñi of these social security cards and basically the irs just told usñi toçó mind our own darn business. what do you think of that? host: now are you a certified public accountant? >> we were but no longer involved in it at all. if we can't do it honest we won't. host: and it says -- caller:çó

that still doesn't solve the problem of by law you can't turn down a customer. if somebody walks into your office you can't say you look like an illegal alien and i'm not going to do your business. that's a good way to get sued. host: have you been sued? caller: no. after it got so bad, we had 2 is people come out to our business and gave the same physical address as their home where they live. and they are milking our system through the earned income credits too. that's the illegal aliens i'm talking about. host: thank you, very much for your call. next up is kansas city, kansas, patrick on our line for democrats. welcome to the program. caller: thank you. i can't help but see an all terror motive in the report you guys have been reading from because from i see it appears that article is trg)suz scare

people into the officesñi of th tax preparer that you guys just mentioned and i would tell everyone from personal experience if you have access to a computer, just go to irsñi .gov and you can do your tacks on your own. host: you feel confident in doing your taxes on your own? caller: of course. i've done it before. it's a point that it's going to be fearful for everyone initially but go to irs.gov, they have a program on there that's going to assist you in doing your taxes. host: have you ever been auditted? caller: no. it may take you a couple days, and unless you have a complex taxes then i would advise you just go to a book keeper or account which in a good year i have done myself but if if you are just working a regular job, there's no need in my personal

opinion to waste your moneyçó into people that are trying to scare you that's indicated in the ad youñi got that you're reading from. host: james in southeast l.a. [inaudible] this bill has h & r block written all over it. the big guys will have no problem complying only the little guys will suffer. on the pageñi of the "houston chronicle" the inauguration of the new mayor it says citizens will shape the city's future. her partner kathy hubard acknowledges the crowd after being sworn in. there was coverage of that on c-span. if you want to see it again you can go to our website and stream the video. back to the phones. scottsdale, arizona. mark on our line for republicans. you're on "washington journal." caller: yes. thank you. i was interested in mentioning that i believe there's too much

regulation first off on the general public by the government. i'm surprised that the senator graftly actually proposed these new standards. oftentimes it seems like the government officials whether they be in the represen÷atr+es or in the senate dream about gee what new coverage and programs should we implement today? basically these tax returns are so simple. they are so simple that you can go to the library and even a librarian can help you if you've never done them before. it's really quite basic. host: and you've never had any problems -- do you do your own taxes? >> i no longer -- caller: i no longer do but when i was younger and had a little less income i certainly did. it was very straight forward. the information aab