2003. we had low inflation and rapid growth. and the best evidence of that is that people stopped complaining about the growth rate. we had minor recessions but not big recessions. we have the longest period of sustained growth in the history of the united states. looking back on that, what did people complain about? the distribution of income and they say this and that about the period -- but that was the best period for macroeconomic stability. problems of education, productivity growth, those things were problems that create the difficulties in the distribution of income that people didn't like. the other part of the question -- i am sorry -- " but you know what, i forgot it myself. we will move on to missouri, roger on the democratic line. caller: i'm really pleased to

have the opportunity to speak. when i started my economics and number of decades ago we talked a lot about federal reserve open market operations and i hear and read almost nothing about that except small, almost footnote in "the wall street journal" every day. could you discuss what open market operations play in the equation and how? guest: they are the main thing the federal reserve does. they said a 0-25% interest rate and to keep that they have to buy or sell. what they are doing now is they are buying mortgages, those are open market operations. they use open market operations to buy mortgages, which are highly illiquid and it will have problems selling, but they now are buying almost 90% of the mortgages that, on the market. that is where they are using the open market operations and they

are every bit as important or powerful. host: thank you very much, sir, for your time. appreciate it. guest: my pleasure. host: we will be back tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern time but now we will take you to george washington university where admiral mike mullen, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff will be talking about the current state of the united states military. .

[applause] >> good morning. listening to the president talk about who you are and why you are here what you are looking at over the course of this couple of weeks, it is a pretty exciting time. i will talk about a few things for maybe 15 minutes and then open it up to questions per i am particularly excited and delighted to be able to talk to so many of you are so young. there is not a day that goes by where i don't think about the challenges that we have just now but the challenges that are out there for you as you become leaders in our country. i applaud you being here and the fact that you are participating and debating and discussing

difficult issues. this week, it is the presidency and congress and next week is the presidency and the media. that encompasses a whole lot. i will try to tell you where the military pit sent to all that. because you are at the age you are, i will tell you about my background. i want to encourage you to keep doing what you are doing. secondly, keep your options open. you just never know what life will bring you. isn't there a group from san diego here? that was not a very big round of applause. [laughter] the weather is not what it was in san diego opera i grew up north of los angeles. i grew up in the movie business having nothing to do with the military. i was the oldest of five kids and my dad told me that if you

want to get an education, go someplace they will pay for it. i had a sponsor that headed me toward and affluence. i got on a plane in june, 1964 and went to naval academy. we did not travel back then to advance trips or look at colleges before you go to college it was the first time i had been across the country. this is a california story. i showed up in the middle of june -- the end of june where it is 9490 degrees. i was scratching my head and wondering how people could actually live in the kind of unity. in california, humidity is not in the dictionary in california. that day, i met tremendous people, my classmates from all

over the country. i had not been broadly exposed to that point. great people and from that moment on which was a long time ago, i have never looked back. with expectations to be able to contribute to this profession and to contribute to the world, that grew over time. i had no expectations that i would ever be in a job like this. that was a time, a tough time for us in the country. it was vietnam and social turmoil growing up in those times. it was very coeducational and instructive. it was instructive to me because in its senior judge and in this job i have no, we are in "war is that you are very much aware of. in that time and my experience in vietnam was which was a first war i was in, that impacted me

and influences however think about things today. the specifics of that car is that that was a war where of the american people the ball to to a position where they did not support our men and women in uniform. when this war started, the first thing i alerted on was the need and try to have an understanding of the american people's support of men and women in uniform. the american people across the full spectrum support our men and women in uniform. that has been incredibly important and also satisfying to the military does carry out the will of the people from the standpoint of what we do. we get our direction from the president. if we do not have the support of the people, which we did not back them, and i remember that as it were yesterday, it makes it almost impossible. there are many lessons like that

that come from my youth when i was about your age and maybe older in terms of how it impacts on me today. i got to see the world. it was not as global as we are now. our spend my time in countries all over the world and learned a lot and group, was given responsibilities, and continue to evolve over time. i had jobs and increasing responsibilities with no expectation. i was going to leave at 20 years. i decided to stay on a couple of more and then i was going to leave at 25 and so on. here i am. that goes to show you, you don't know what will happen. doing all the preparation you are doing for life as it comes at you and not burning bridges and keeping our options open is absolutely vital. i applaud what you are doing and what you are tied into, trying to understand our government in

particular in these enormously challenging times. we're much more global. we're much more connected, much closer to students your rage around the world, not that they would necessarily come here because they do that but also because of the ties that we have through communications and the internet and where we are focused where we have not been in the past. you live and enormously challenging times -- you live in enormously challenging times. you will lead this effort in the very near future in ways that i think many of you will probably not know. how does the military fit into all of this tax cut i came to this job a little over two years ago and i laid out three big priorities. we are in the middle of two wars. when i took over, it was the height of the surge. in iraq. there were difficult decisions.

i had moved forward from that time to wear briard right now where we shifted our main effort from iraq to afghanistan. the first piece was the broader middle east. i was heavily focused on iraq, afghanistan, what became because it was part of my education the focus on afghanistan could not be limited to afghanistan. it had to include pakistan. i think i have been to pakistan -- i was in pakistan one time before this job and i just made my 14th triple the last couple of years. that gives you an indication of the need to understand to be there and see challenges through other people's eyes. not just take the american of view from here to washington or, quite frankly, from iowa city,

iowa or wherever you may live, to understand these problems looking at it from another country's perspective. it is a critical country in a critical part of the world. that focus on the broader middle east included the focus on the gulf area, i ran, and the challenges that go from tehran to beirut. that includes south asia. i have learned a lot and we all have. it has been instructive the policy debate we had late last year, the strategy for afghanistan and pakistan. the president made his decision -- decision and spoken december and now we are in the execution phase of that. that was not an easy decision did i felt was a courageous decision. i am very supportive of it and we have the resources we need now to turn it around in afghanistan.

when we got to last summer, it was my view and not many people really had focused on afghanistan. they did not know much about it. we had been heavily focused on iraq since 2003. i encourage the debate and i think you should always have a debate on issues of this -- magnitude in this country we did in the president made his decision. all over the next couple of years, we are into executing that strategy. we spent an awful lot of time on that part i put my best people in positions to lead. general mcchrystal would be the signature individual there are quite frankly, there are many others that he has and we have put in place to execute the strategy i will close my remarks in a minute about leadership. putting my best people on my number one priority is an absolute requirement. in the end, so much of what we

do boils down to leadership. it boils down to how leaders lead, how they believe in times of change and you are going to grow up appreciating leadership as things change. we want to get to a point where it just ran by itself. those days are far behind us. you are growing up learning that leadership in a time of change, constant change, cross every spectrum, whether it is education, the cyberworld, the cultural world, the language world, and i would encourage everyone of you to figure out how to speak a second language. how many of you do? what languages? say again.

>> italian, french -- >> you'll and those in america? >> two of them. >> i would encourage that because it is not just a language skills. it is the cultural understanding that comes along with it. there will be more and more of that requirement. one thing i learned very early in my career was that people all over the world appreciate us as americans, anybody, taking the time to learn a little bit about their language and try to speak a little bit of their language even if it is yes, no, thank you, they really do appreciate that. they actually moved from that to a level of they believe respect that you have for them because you have taken the time to do that, working to try to understand it from their perspective. i would encourage that.

we continue back to where we fit in right now, a big part of the next couple of years is the execution of this afghanistan and pakistan strategy. this is not just focused on afghanistan even though that is where we have a majority of troops. we are not their library there are 42 other countries -- we are not there all alone. there are other -- there are 42 other countries. the nato alliance which makes up those 42 other countries has added another 7000 troops in proportion to what they had before. there is a big international and diplomatic and political and developmental and economic plan that is associate with executing the strategy over the next couple of years. i believe that we can turn the insurgents iran for its part would security. another universal standard for me is that i have travelled over many countries over many decades

throughout the world, parents want to raise their kids to a higher standard of living and they would like to do it in a secure environment. the basis for all of this is economic. that is global economics coming out of a very, very difficult financial crisis in this country and globally that has impacted all of us. the first big priority when i took this job was the broader middle east, south asia focus. it continues almost 2.5 years later. it continued to appeal the topple list. the second is that we have deployed our troops in ways we never imagined we could in 2000. in our army in particular up to that point, is what i call a

garrison forced for the lid on bases here. they only went overseas and deployed during a time of war. the army is becoming like hard navy and marine corps in the sense that we deploy them, bring them back and deploy them again, almost like a ship or a group of ships. we did that in the navy and marine corps for ever. that is the illusion of change in our army. -- that is the evolution of change in our army. we are much different force that we were eight years ago. for our major units, our brigade combat teams, which is roughly 4000 soldiers, those teams are now the ones that went out first in 2003. they are about to start their fifth deployment. those deployments of worked six months, eight months, 12 months, 50 months on that -- 15 months

on the order. if i were a 10-year-old and my dad was a soldier in 2001, he has gone to war several times, been gone an extraordinary amount of time over the time between when i was 10 and 18 and i just went to college for the question becomes how well the way my dad or how well does my dad or mom, because there has been women who have deployed at a very high pace, as well. that's the to the challenges that face us in terms of the overall health of the four separate multiple supplements, stress on individuals and families, dramatically increased suicide rates across the services, not just ground forces who bear the brunt of these complex and we have taken

significant steps to address those issues. where families have been a priority for us, as long as i have been in the military, they have taken on a unique, a new and unique and much more fully integrated part of us as a military. we would not be able to be where we are. it is the best military i have seen in the 40 + years i have been serving. we could not survive without unbelievable family support. they have been extraordinary. we have taken significant struck -- steps of our organizations to make sure we have better programs, better support, better medical care, increased benefits, education benefits, those kinds of things. that will have to continue. as we look forward, the family part of this will become more important over time. there's an awful lot of focus in

my time in this secondary because we have put these people through such incredible challenges. yet, they are resilient. they're the best i have ever seen. they are resilient as military members and the families have shown an incredible with zillions as well. -- resilience as well. i still focus on the rest of the world. yes, these wars of focus us in iraq and afghanistan and pakistan and in that part of the world. there are challenges that we face globally, economically, as well as security-wise. whether it is the entire episode based and which i think is -- the entire pacific basin which i think will be important, it is the emergence of challenges in africa. africa is a continent with great riches and the enormous challenges whether it is spam and or disease -- whether it is

a famine or disease. those are not problems for the united states to solve. these are problems for the world community to focus on. i am from southern california. i was raised at a time when i was trained to look east and west for a being from southern california, i have not been heavily engaged with mexico or with latin america. that is another part of the world in our own hemisphere that we will have to focus more and more on as partners. particularly with brazil, that is another economic engine for our hemisphere but quite frankly for the globe. there are other places in the world that i'd think we will have to continue to focus on, as well.

one of the questions for me right now that i am sorry to ask is what will happen after these wars. when the operational tempo slows down, what does our military look like and what will our challenges before the future? part of my charter is to look out 10 and 20 years to see what we need to do. my first priority is the missions i have. the second priority is to make sure we take care of the people. the third is to look to the future in terms of how does it look and knowing these incrediblly challenging times that the military will be a big part of desperatthis. the military needs to sustain its position as in a political organization. i have been chairman at a time when the change administrations. we went from a republican administration to agree -- a democratic administration.

it did not make any difference. i knew that going in when i took this job. i worked very hard to support a smooth transition. it was led by then-president bush and now president obama who set the tone as leaders are supposed to do for a smooth transition which we needed in this incredibly difficult, and. t time. all the things you will learn and where i would encourage you to go is to take some risks, put yourself in positions of responsibility, learn how to lead with people, learn how to lead others who will follow you, and sustain those very high standards that are so important as we look at teams, challenges,

and the need to address these challenges. none of us can do alone, not individually, not one country. how will you grow up to be a leader in this marvelously complex. complex i know it is challenging but it creates huge opportunities for all of us. we want to try to make it better for the parent at talked-about that they can raise their kids in peace and security and to a higher standard of living those are some initial thoughts and i would be happy to take your questions. [applause] >> how are you doing, sir? i'm a part of rotc. what steps is the military

taking to ensure that information is communicated between the various government agencies as far as terrorist activities? >> since 9/11, i have seen an extraordinary change in how we do that. there have been an inordinate amount of people and systems which have evolved and put in place but also in called to share information much more rapidly and much more transparently than we have in the past. we are living in a world -- this is the change i talked about private i think we will need to be more transparent. we will need to be a more collaborative then we have in the past this is not just our government but across the board. in that regard, we have made an awful lot of progress to focus on these terrorists and yet, we had the incident on the 25th of

december which has been front and center. you are the spread -- president speak to that yesterday in terms of the mistakes that were made where we have the date set and the information and the intelligence but we did not get it shared. but is not a perfect system. there are tremendous people who were to make a perfect but there is a human factor here that is in play. based on this is an, we know -- based on this incident, we know we have to work to make a better bargain compared to where we were in 2001 to where we are now, we have made leaps in terms of sharing information and we will continue to do that. >> thank you very much, sir. >> we just heard from someone who made comments about the

interconnectedness of our world and uses of the into internet to fight terrorism. how can we harness the grass roots efforts in an effective way to fight radical ideology? >> when you say that, my first reaction is -- and this will be much more evident as you grow up in terms of your leadership in our country -- is a whole world cyber? what does that mean? are the boundaries and limits and rules? there is great potential. there's a great upside and downside in cyber. we have invested a lot of resources, money and people, to get our arms around that. when you talk about how the terrorists use this medium and they do, we have to actually get

ahead of them. a few years ago, we were behind them. they were much more effective. i talk in terms of execution and our ability to react and we were in the reaction mode. from make war-fighting standpoint, we have improved dramatically in terms of speed of war. we equal than in some cases get ahead of them where you want to have the enemy be. i want the enemy behind me. we pursue that and we have actually improved dramatically. they are coming, capable, agile, flexible, in terms of their capabilities. we know that and we have to continue to improve. we cannot rest on our laurels clearly, this incident on december 25 was a wake-up call. at the same time, there have been a large number of incidents that have been prevented based on the actions and the systems and the humans who have been

involved in preventing another catastrophic attack after 9/11. it is not perfect but i think about cyber and goes back to something we cannot do a low grade we will have to do it with other countries. there are very significant cyber threats out there that need to the address. >> thank you. >> good morning. i'm from california state university, long beach. the president announced he would be sending 30,000 more troops to afghanistan he mentioned that the withdrawal time of 18 months. do you think the taliban can be defeated in that time and will be your strategy? >> the key in the next 18 months will be to reverse the momentum of the insurgency. the insurgency has dramatically increased in terms of its lethal masity.

that is why the troops are so important because of where the insurgency is pride in order to create security in keep population centers which will allow us to develop, create jobs in the long run and have the insurgency virtually eliminated in that country. it is a huge challenge. the president did not set a time line for withdrawal. he said we would start to transition responsibility for security to the afghan security forces, in particular their army and police, starting in july, 2011. focusing on that date and we will clearly do that and i believe we can do that, but it is based on conditions at that time. where, how much, what the pace is, will be determined by the conditions at the time.

we are very focused on that. the course over the next year is to get our troops into place as rapidly as we can to be able to provide the kind of security. i was there a couple of weeks ago. i went through helmund province where the marines went in and was infected with insurgents. the insurgents are out of the bazaar and it is secure. we have to sustain that. the afghans have to take the lead for their own security and the responsible for that. the other reason that july, 2011 is so important which is a date i supported was because we know that we will know how this will be going for it we will have had our marines and particular down south for three fighting seasons.

they have been there since summer of 2009. we will know if this is working or not. if it is working, as ike leggett will become a we will continue to press for reported -- if it is working, as i think it will, we will continue to press. >> thank you. >> thank you for coming. good morning to you. good morning to everybody out there watching across the country. yemen has landed in the nose over the past weeks. what is the battle plan for yemen? is that air strikes and that kind of thing or boots on the grounds? is a diplomatic? >> i have had a concern about yemen well over the last year or so. the policy debate we had with

regard to the afghanistan and pakistan is focused on eliminating a staple of the -- eliminating a safe haven and making sure that pakistan is not a position where they can host safe havens in the future. in that regard, it is very focused on those safe havens. i have had significant concerns about the growing threat in yemen, the growth of another safe haven as well as somalia and other areas of the world that i would call potential failed states. we have focused on this for a significant period of time. we worked on the american side in the military to support a growing yemeni armed forces capability. it has been focused in the last 2.5 weeks, we have been focused on of for a considerable period of time.

we all recognize they are a sovereign country and we will continue to support the yemeni government. in the execution of their strategy to to bring in these terrorists. >> i am from the university of ottawa. >> who won last night? >> addai 01. >> just checking. [laughter] >> with the health care bill on the verge of passing, what is the department of veteran affairs doing about medical care? how will military personnel -- military personnel are struggling to receive their g.i. bills on time. with the job market the way it is, more military personnel

after retiring or getting out of the service are trying to make their way to get their degrees, to find a job. they are not being taken care of the way they should they. >> when the health-care debate started in the united states, the health care plan for the military and for veterans was taken off the table it is not part of the current health care debate. that said, part of my life in recent years has been in budgeting. our health care costs inside the military have also skyrocketed. we will have to figure out how to get control of that. otherwise, we will go broke. there are many people working to do just that. that said, i have seen the military health care programs in

the last dozen years grow to eight. , mature to a point where is the gold standard. i talked to a lot of our young military members and their families about this benefit which is a huge benefit for all of us. we work more closely, in my view, with the va than in the past. these are the same pressure as people who serve on active duty, then leave, and moved over to the va. we have a system which historically the pentagon handles certain things and we turn you over to the va and we sort of forget about you and the va, too often, turns you over to the rest of america. we are just not seamlessly organized.

my priority is the wounded and families of the fallen, the visible and invisible ones of these wars, the mental health issues which are significant, and i have a great deal of equity because these are my people even though they would go into the va system. we are working hard to make all that work better. the gi bill is a great bill. it is a significant, a dramatic increase from the bill but we had up until that point. since 1968 when i was first commissioned, i had sailors and now soldier-sellers who, to the military for lots of reasons. one of them is typically training and two is to look for a future that includes a better education. i applaud this bill.

it is one that is an investment in america, not just from the standpoint of those who serve. payback for that will be many, many fold. you are seeing the va struggling with the number of applicants having systems in place and can execute those applications and get those benefits out as rapidly as possible. i don't know all the details but i know that secretary shinseki is focused. he understands the value that the va is working hard to eliminate the backlog and make these benefits available to those who serve and made such a difference as rapidly as possible. >> thank you. >> good morning, sir. i am looking forward to the next half century. there has been a lot of talk about emerging models of

warfare. to what extent are the models incompatible or different? where do we strike the balance? >> one of my senior military presence at my level talked about this in terms of warfare is warfare. there are different kinds of warfare and different aspects. we should never underestimate that we are or potentially could be at war in these areas. there are principles which are the same. there are also some emerging requirements, emerging capabilities that i think we have to further put into better balance inside the pentagon, specifically. i would highlight one area we call a regular warfare bursa's conventional warfare. -- irregular warfare as opposed

to conventional warfare pride we want to concur proved -- we want to improve our capacity. we were not a counter-insurgency force before 2006. we have become the best counter insurgency force in the world. that takes different capabilities. we will have to sustain that capability and yet, i worry about, when i talk about the future, you have heard people talk about fighting the last war. at some point, this will be the last war. is that the right or to prepare for for the future? i think to some degree, that capability will have to exist. i would describe the characteristics of what we have to have a military in the future over the next 40 years as adaptable, flexible, lethal, precise, minimal footprint,

minimal collateral damage, broadly engaged in terms of preventative. i would much rather prevent a war than fight a war. that encaged and presents an opportunity to have relationships will cumulatively at up to a point where leaders can make a decision to not go to war as opposed to go to war. heavy focus on the irregular side, right now. it was asymmetric and symmetric before. there will always be asymmetries. i am looking for asymmetries i can take advantage of or against the enemy. we need to continue to eat all that. -- toohey ball that. -- to evolve that. >> i'm from arkansas state

university. with incidents like december 25, how much impact would have been u.s. strategy in places like iraq and afghanistan and other terrorist caught dead. >> i think it is too soon to tell with respect to that. there was a concern that this would generate more support from young males who might be on the fence about what to do with their lives. in the long run, to get at this terrorist challenge, it will going to be about how we influence those decisions. if i make mail, a muslim male of that age, if you will, and i don't have a job and i have not had an education, what do i decide to do with my life? that is a long-term aspect of this that i think can only be

fixed through improved economic conditions in certain parts of the world, governments to provide opportunities as opposed to situations that become fertile ground. that is what i talk about the failed estate. that is fertile ground for these kind of individuals. it is too soon to understand the impact. we have a lot of work to do in our own government to learned from the mistakes that we've made with respect to that incident. i think it is too soon to tell the impact it will have. >> thank you. >> good morning, admiral. i am from suffolk university in boston. recently, the obama administration came under fire for their insistence that the guantanamo detainees be tried in new york. given your 42 years of military

experience, do you perceive that military tribunals are perhaps better equipped to handle these sort of trials rather than civilian courts? >> what you have seen in the debates about this decision and other decisions that the administration announced yesterday that we will not send any more yemeni been hit detainee's to yemen at least in the immediate future -- i have for years believed and still believe that we need to close guantanamo bay. you can see in the totality of what the tension is -- of what detention ais, the complexity of

the issues. i'm not involved in those decisions. this is a justice department per view, if you will. it was a decision made by our attorney general. i leave it at that. obviously, there are views on both sides of that decision more importantly, it speaks to the difficulty of dealing with the kind of war that we are in with respect to these individuals. it goes back to that they have no boundaries, no rules, right up for killing as many innocent people as possible. what is the right way to deal with them in the near term for some of these challenges as well as in the long term? >> thank you. >> thank you for speaking with us, admiral. i am from texas state

university. you talked about one of the pivotal principles of your leadership style, to look forward and look past the current president. you had a meeting with the present yesterday about national security. what did you take from that meeting and how does that play out to looking forward as we move into afghanistan and possibly looking at yemen and other national security issues? >> the summary of it was very well laid out by the president. he said we made a mistake. we had the intelligence and did not connect the dots per it we need to prove that and make sure that does not happen again. i normally don't get into any kind of details. in fact, that aspect of it which goes back to the information- sharing question that was asked earlier, we have systems which are much better but we also

have a massive amount of data. we have a massive amount of information and how do you create systems and how you inject the human factor in a way where it pulls up the critical information? i believe in the future, and i mention afghanistan and pakistan and iraq but way beyond that, we are living in a world where we need to understand, completely understand our environment and then look for anomalies. we have to look for change and focus on the stage. change. that is a whole way of looking differently and held warfare is prevented and executed in terms of what those requirements are. at the heart of this is the need for different agencies in our government to exchange information on a timely basis,

to service this kind of problem ahead of time so we make sure it does not happen. >> thank you very much. >> good morning, admiral. i'm a representative of the main state university. there has been talk of increasing security measures national reported that has raised concerns of personal privacy. how we plan to balance these two interests? >> that is the challenge that and a leader has and certainly the challenge that this administration as well as our congress has with respect to the laws and regulations we have is a country. we value our privacy in this country. it is a critical part of who we are as a country and we have been and who we are. at the same time, the

president's foremost responsibility is to make sure of the security of the american people. he has said that. every president has said that part we have to look at the times to see what actions need to be taken or what changes might need to be taken with respect to these kinds of laws and regulations. that is a healthy debate to have. it is a healthy debate for the country, quite frankly. it is ongoing right now. i would not be able to tell you how that will turn out. the tension between these two is not just real, it is important that we have that debate to determine what the right level is in terms of the kinds of rules you were talking about and whether we should change them or not. >> thank you.

>> good morning. i am from quebec piat university. security at airports continues to expose the u.s. to weaknesses in our defense. what actions are we taking to strengthen our defenses? >> i have spoken to that to some extent already. there has been an unbelievable number of actions taken or the last, since 9/11, that have put systems in place to prevent. if i were speak -- if i were to speak to americans or picked up in pakistan the other day as visible examples of that effort and there have been many more that we don't know about.

i applaud that effort. i applaud the outcomes. if you or i on the 12th of september, 2001, would have said that it would be nine + years before we would have this or go that long without another major incident, at least from my perspective, i would have had doubts. there has been a great deal that has been achieved. i talked earlier about the lessons. this has to do with sinn sharing information and a huge bureaucracy. we collect an extraordinary amount of data. how do we do that and how we share it and how quickly can we turn that what i call actionable intelligence or actionable information into the kind of

action that would be preventative. that is where we are. we are learning a great deal as a result of desperate we will make changes accordingly. the president is not patient about this. these changes have to be made immediately. >> thank you. >> good morning, admiral. i am from elan university. you mentioned there are programs in place for military families facing deployment. as a feature educator and someone who hails from fort bragg, what specifically is being done with these families facing deployment as it pertains to education? >> part of the gi bill which was initiated out of the pentagon and supported by the president is to put in legislation, the ability to transfer benefits to

spouses and independent children. that is the first time that had ever been done. that is a significant step. secondly, several organizations, including the pentagon have worked to make it easier for dependents who move from one state to another to transfer into those school systems without going through a horrendous amount of work and red tape in order to get thirdly, states would give, and there have been many of them in recent years, that did in-state tuition to individuals who get transferred to focus on that aspect of education paren. there are programs focused on spouse education that each service has. how can we emphasize that and approved that?

the foundation for a bright future is most often and education. -- and education. -- an education. it was dramatically different that was 10 years ago. throughout our discussions, including the family and where they said, and i call it a readiness issue. we need to be ready with our airplanes and with our ships and with their tanks, we need to be a certain level of training and readiness certainly in a world like we are in now. our units as well a healthy family unit is a readiness issue. one that is not degrades are ready mess.

-- our readiness. we are looking to include many programs, leader-focused, on family needs in ways we had not thought of 10 years ago and we will have to to continue to do that as a priority for the future. >> thank you. >> admiral mullen, thank you very much. [applause] >> admiral mike mullins began to the students at the washington center today. we will have more coverage of that scheduled later parted. democratic senators christopher dodd and byron dorgan are

announcing their decisions to not run for reelection. senator dodd has a press conference scheduled in connecticut later this afternoon. we will have live coverage of that, scheduled for noon, eastern, live on c-span 2. president barack obama has another meeting said today with speaker nancy pelosi and democratic leadership on health care legislation is possible that the democratic leaders will have something to say after the meeting with the president. we will have cameras also today for robert gibbs and his briefing scheduled for about 12:15 eastern. we will have live coverage on cspan 3. back here and cspan, our live coverage continues with a look at water issues in developing countries. that begins at noon, eastern. join us later for new york governor david paterson for his state of the state address at noon, eastern and that is on c- span 2. >> american icons -- three

original documentaries about available on dvd, a unique journey through the homes of american government. cd exquisite detail of the supreme court. go beyond the velvet ropes of the tours of the white house. and explore the history, art and architecture of the capital. american icons, a three-disc dvd separate it is $24.95 plus shipping and handling, one of the many items available at c- span.org be/store. all >> yesterday, the home secretary in england announced that british airports will introduce new bomb detection equipment and body scanning machine. this is after the failed flight bomb attempt on christmas day parade followed their statements, two cabinet members take questions from members. it is one hour, 10 minutes. >> we have an urgent question

for the foreign secretary ribble you make a statement in the situation in yemen including the closure of the british embassy and the position of british citizens in yemen? >> my hon. friend will address this question. i will address the broader picture. the government has been increasingly concerned about the situation in yemen and the number and skill of the challenges faced by the yemeni government and people. we believe that increasing security and stability in yemen poses a threat to the gulf region and the u.k. over the last 18 months, the situation has been a growing concern in the region and to governments. in september 2009, we developed a new country strategy for yemen. this structure is being implemented by departments

including the foreign office. it covers four areas -- support for democratic structures, addressing the causes of conflict, building yemeni capacity to tackle security, and helping the yemeni government to deliver the rules of the state, offshore and onshore. we support the government of yemen in meeting these capabilities. we will have a meeting with and which will focus and galvanizing international support for the yemeni fight to address the launder economic factors underlying extremism. the symbol of the government's long-term commitment to yemen is a 10-year partnership agreement with the government of yemen in august, 2007 for the u.k.

development office is aligned with thand it is a priority. we will spend millions of dollars and depended on progress, we will spend up to 50 million pounds in 2012. the government of yemen is embattled on four different related fronts. first, the tribal rebels in the north, second, a separatist movement in the south, economic decline across the country, important in the doubling of the population in the relatively near future, and the growing threat of terrorists. . which finds safekeeping in -- safe haven ad yemen. it detracts from the government's short-term efforts to address these priorities. as a result of security

concerns, the british embassy closed early this week on a precautionary basis for two days. the embassy is now open and staff is back at work. the public services section, the set and consular section, are closed. this is under regular review. i discussed it with our ambassador yesterday morning. it is not unusual for embassies to close during times of heightened tension. in 2009, the british embassy closed in the capital city on over a dozen occasions. it would not be right to comment it would not be right to comment on the speci of this closure, but i do assure the house is kept under regular review to ensure services are maintained. the embassy maintains regular contact with the british community, and with a british nationals who are registered with the embassy. the overall threat level in yemen has not changed. as we made clear and the travel advisory, the threat from terrorism is high and remains of

concern. we continue to recommend against all non-essential travel to the country. >> i refer the house to register. my personal interests, having been born and yemen and lived there for nine years, in welcoming the london conference, will the foreign secretary state precisely what additional support has been given to yemen as a result of this recent initiative? can you also confirm that all the money pledged to yemen in november, 2006, in london, has been paid over. can we stop referring to yemen as a failed state? çit has the capacity toç failf britain, america and the arab states do not support it. could we make sure that the foreign secretary visits this country as soon as possible? >> mr. speaker, three parts. first of all, the london meeting will not be a conference. i do not think what is -- that

is what is needed. some 5 billion pounds was pledged at the london conference and 2006. a small portion of that has been ini] part,ç because of concerns about how the money would be spent. there are other issues raised. 40 percent of it has been assigned an 81% allocated -- a small percentage has actually been spent. in terms of his attempt to send me to yemen, i cannot quite promise them that. my hon. friend, the minister of --u! will be on ça wrecky toçn çnext month. the conclusions of the london çmeeting in inappropriate way. >> mr. speaker, may we welcome on behalf of the opposition, the

calling of the conference in london on january 28. agreed that yemen as a fragile state, rather than a failed state. it matters to british security. thereo7k are three setsç of questions. on the closure ofçç the embas, is the confidentç that the rigt level of consular support can be given to british citizens and officialsç in yemen? in the event of further closures of our embassy, and plans are in place to offer them protection? for u.s.-u.k. support of the counter terrorist police force, and a yemeni coast card operation, -- ç[unintelligible] çóbut specifically, does this refer purely to financial support? or to any actual assistance on the ground in the form of trading? what is the timescale for the delivery of this support, and

when is that you knew it expects to be up and running? -- the new unit expect to be up and running? on the part of other gulf nations that may be willing to work with us on this initiative. third they, at yemen cannot be viewed solely through the prism of an al qaeda problem. the foreign secretary refers to a mixture of issues. çit is an internal conflicts, fuelled by political grievances, poverty, corruption, competition over depleted natural resources, and requires political leadership from the government as well as international assistance these issues -- can he assure us that these issues will all be addressed at the conference in january and will continue to be treated as a priority by his colleagues? will it also focus on the dam and the government's responsibility -- the yemeni's government's

responsibility? >> i am confident that the right procedures areç being followedn terms of consular support for british nationals. the yemeni çdiaspora and britan as long standing -- in britain is longstanding. çthere is some need for customr support, but i am assured by the ambassador that is being taken care of and the appropriate way. çspecifically, toward network, which operates in many countries, -- the warden network, has not been met so notified. in respect to the work goilg on with the yemeni authorities, money for training, which is the important part of the cooperation taking place -- we will be discussing with a range of the attendees at the london

meeting whether or not there is a way in which they could support the u.k.-u.s. efforts. and we will look for a purported ways in which to use the skills andç expertise that come from other countries. mr. speaker, i was glad to hear what the right hon. gentleman said about the threat of the british program there and then need to maintain it. the short, medium and long-term are related. most of the grievances that exist in yemen are of local nature, not of global jihad. xd-- where al qaeda can try to find it reads there, the vast bulk of the issues -- çwhile al qaeda can find roots there, the vast bulk of the issues are the ones that the government can address. it is the prime responsibility of debt and to do so. >> the actions of the foreign officer in closing the embassy enjoys support across the house. will the foreign secretary

reassure the house that in supporting action against al qaeda in yemen, we are insuring that local people are not inadvertently alienated by our actions and those by our allies? in giving it ministry support and aid to the yemenis, and the strategy you talked about, are we impressing upon the government the importance of avoiding civilian debt and building a sustainable coalition against al qaeda across the whole country? >> the hon. gentleman makes an extremely good and important point, and a highly relevant one. there has been a very wide welcome across the gulf, and within yemen, for the fact that the london meeting will not simply focus on counter- terrorism. that might play into the dangers that the hon. gentleman is referring to. the into this that is al qaeda of the arabian peninsula -- tghe

xdhe incubus of al qaeda in the arabian peninsula should not become a rallying point. they become the victims. he is absolutely right to insist that the economic, social and political issues that are at the heart of yemen's development do need to be addressed. i think that yemen's oil wealth is likely to run out in 2015. the dangers of water scarcity are very real. these are issues that are not amenable to counter-terrorism solutions. they require a much more deep- seeded and -- that is why the fourth priority we mentioned of the function of the state is so important to these questions. >> the foreign secretary mentioned the radicalization. we undertake a very close talks with the saudi arabian government, which makes some of

the westernized countries seem unorthodox. some of these contacts seem to be working and i think we need to learn from that. >> the saudi arabian program that was featured today it was one that i visited last year in saudi arabia. there is a counter radicalization program. it is extremely innovative. i met my self a failed suicide bomber, one who had been inveigled into driving a truck -- and failed. it is not a laughing matter, since he killed a lot of people in that truckee was driving. he did not know what the contents war. she was going to the program. there were a number of other people going to the$ogram -- he was going to the program, qincludingç religious instruct. there are larger, innovative

profuqmeáqáurns -- in regards to return to normal life after the program. i congratulate the saudi arabian government in this program. >> mr. speaker, can i declare an interest -- i visited yemen a couple years ago. i found a very impressive foreign minister read things britain has a key role to play in that country. what i also found is that the electoral gains made by radical islamists have been in those areas of the greatest party. what we need -- can we also do more to eradicate and rehabilitate their breeding grounds? >> sorry to sound like a stuck record, but the hon. gentleman makes an important point. those who in çthe newspapers today are alleging we are çwasting ourç money and spendg development money and anti-

party messageñr --w3 programs. they are actually wrong. çççthe fact thatç they enjo- party support is a positive he is right, that ifç we want o w3ççkçstop yemen becoming a e çdangerous for the ground for ççterrorism, it needs to devep the sort of life chances that you and i take for granted. >> at enormous cost and a loss of british human lives, we joined america at in an invasion of iraq and afghanistan. before we commit even more human lives to another nightmare, should we consider the possibility of having an independent, british foreign policy? >> we should certainly have a foreign policy that is decided independently by the government and people of this country. what we should not have is an isolated attempt to workq on its own. i am proud that we are close

partners of the united states, of the european union, and a large number of countries in the gulf who are concerned actually, the attention we have been paying to get men over the past 18 months is a significant product of thei] growing concern in 2008 from countries in the gulf who wanted british help because of their concerns about the situation in yemen. we are not unwelcomew3 helpers n yemen. we're not trying to recall a nice yemen. --ç recolonize yemen. >> whilst i welcome a short discussion about yemen, we are having this discussion because of al qaeda. would it not be instructive of the government to produce a document or hold a london conference and invite international partners to talk about the international strategy to talk about -- against al qaeda before we have the other countries where al qaeda is

offered -- operating but not necessarily in the news at the moment? >> i think he would be one of the first to recognize that simply to talk about al qaeda and not distinguish between its senior leadership based in afghanistan and pakistan, the al qaeda of the arabian peninsula, al qaeda and in other areas, there are distinctive issues related to this senior leadership and the franchises on the other. there shouldç be a steady to debate and the more the better as far as i'm concerned. there was our recent meeting with parliamentarians on the situation in yemen before the christmas incident. there is a thrivingç all-party parliamentary group, chaired by my hon. friend that speaks to the close links that exist between britain and yemen. long a that continue. >> is a significant proportion of terrorists turned out to be

radicalized here inç britain, ratherw3 than niemen ?rd elsewh, should not t prime minister also be considering the radicalization that takes place here? -- rather than just in yemen. >> there have been a large number of meetings. -- not just within government but all around the country to address this issue. >> mr. speaker, i agree with the foreign secretary about the importance of aid in removing what i call this courage of these spots where terrorism-- the scurge were the spots of terrorism can rise up. they described as yemen as fragile. çcould the foreign secretary indicate just how widely supported is the government of yemen of cross all the people, bearing in mind the tribal

conflicts in the north and the separatist movements in the south? >>çç far be it from me it to a lawyer for the right hon. gentleman, but i thinkç he said that yemen is fragile, rather than the government is for agile. in his defense, or at least an explanation of his position -- the government is fragile. the president is currently in his second term of office. the constitution prohibits him running for a third term. parliamentary elections are due in 2011, in yemen, and they will clearly be a massive challenge. one of the issues that will need to be addressed our democratic elections and the ability of people to express their opinions. the number of citizens committed to violence, whether through the movement in the north of the separatist movement in the

south, with links to al qaeda, is a small minority. >> all over the world, our armed forces and our aid budgets are stretched, in afghanistan, in pakistan and in somalia. why has the prime minister chosen to take a lead in yemen or in our resources are stretched? is it better for the u.s. to take a lead? >> so much for an independent foreign policy, mr. speaker. this country has longstanding history with yemen, and i think that gives us an important role. secondly, we are in a group of donors with the united states, with the germans, with the dutch as well, and with the saudi arabia into our preeminent donors. in terms of the stretch, we have been careful to make sure that in our funding and yemen we only spend what we know the government has the ability to properly spent there.

he is right that there are a range of other problems. somalia is addressed best through the amazon security work, but on the political level through the un security council. the meeting that has been called an the other forms of corporation being established the fits the situation in yemen. somalia is rather different. >> international aid funding which they have promised -- it pales against what the oil-rich countries should be providing shouldn't her majesty's government make clear -- shouldn't her majesty's government make clear how much they should spend, rather than spending millions of pounds? >> i am not sure that the government spending money on skyscrapers is what he is referring to. some of the largest pledges at the 2006 conference were from gulf countries, not from western

countries. it is important that those pledges are fulfilled. which of those pledges that? the bank paid? that is a curtain in point in regard to this. -- which of these has been paid? it is not to say that we have the biggest program. it is to explain that we have the berdych program. he has a right to say that this initiative -- we have a british program. he has a right to say that they have put us on the alert about their needs third . >> secretary allen johnson. >> with permission, i would like to take a statement on the failed attempt to destroy a passenger plane at the detroit airport and its implications for national security. on december 24, abdulmutallab,

the nigerian citizen it traveled from lagos to amsterdam, where he boarded the 2 flight53 2 detroit -- flight 253 to detroit. on the way, he detonated a device on his thigh which resulted in a fire. he was subdued by flight crew and passengers. remains in custody in the u.s. -- many countries are doing everything they can to piece together his movements shortly before this attack and are considering what urgent steps need to be taken to prevent further attacks of this nature. it is an issue of grave concern at that the explosive device was not detected by security in nigeria or in the netherlands. as has been widely reported, he

attended university college london between 2005 and 2008, where he completed a degree in engineering. during this time, he was known to the security service but not as somebody engaged in violent extremism. his family and friends have stated their belief that he turned to this during his time in yemen. from the information we have currently, it is not possible to chart with absolute certainty his exact movements after he left the u.k. 14 months ago. he is known to of spent several months studying international business at the university and dubai and in august, 2009, he traveled to yemen where he is thought to have stayed until december before returning to west africa. he came to the attention of u.k. authorities again on april 28, 2009, when he applied for a multi-entry, student visitor visa to attend a course provided by discovering life coaching,

based in east london. the u.k. border agency refused to his application because discovery did not hold a valid accreditation with a u.k.- approved body and was not eligible to sponsor international students. since march, 2009, only institutions that are sponsors or hold a valid accreditation are permitted to bring in short- term foreign students from outside the eea. universities and colleges must be able to demonstrate that they are offering a genuine courses that will benefit students seeking toq study in the uk. this new regime has reduced the number of institutions able to bring students into the u.k. from 4000 to approximately 2000. following the refusal of his application, his name was added to the u.k. watch list. mr. speaker, in light of the serious questions this incident

raised, i want to set out today first lead the immediate steps we are taking to tighten aviation security. secondly, what measures were taken to prevent radicalization in our universities. thirdly, the actions we are taking to disrupt al qaeda in countries where they are known to be active and to prevent future terrorist attacks and to improve cooperation with our international partners. it is of great concern abdulmutallab was able to penetrate airport security at amsterdam. the device used had clearly been constructed with the precise aim of making detection by existing screening methods extremely difficult. abdulmutallab underwent a security check at the airport in amsterdam, as do all passengers transferring from nigeria to another flight of the the it -- although theç airport was using

some of these in trial, there were not used for that flight. he passed through the metal detector. however, certain types of explosives, without metallic parts, which can also be concealed next to the body, cannot be detected by these technologies which is the reason why airports also search passengers at random. to defeat the terrorist threat requires constant vigilance and adaptability. a great deal of progress has been made in enhancing aviation and border security since 9/11, but terrorists are invented. the scale in nature of the threat changes and new technology needs to be harnessed to meet new threats, whilst minimizing inconvenience to passengers. last year, we issued a new public guidance to the industry on our technical requirements for screening and the detection of improvised explosive devices. . .

it is clear that no one measure will be enough to defeat inventive and determine terrorists, and there is no single technology which we can guarantee will be 100% effective against such an attack. airport security is multifaceted and need to adapt constantly to keep falling rocks. we therefore intend to make changes to our airport to carry the regime. airport travelers are already used to being tested for traces of explosives. this will direct airport to increase the proportion of passengers search and this way. there might be additional delays as airports of that, but i am

sure the traveling public will , but iate these am sure the traveling public will appreciate the reason behind this. the transportation secretary has also brought into force new restrictions which tighten up security screenings for new passengers. it is reviewing security standards and airports operating direct flights to the u.k. there will also be an increase number of the dogs to had to our capabilities. the first canners will be deployed in around three weeks at heathrow. over time, they will be introduced for widely. we will be reviewing all airports to introduce explosive trace detection equipment by the end of the year. the best way of doing all of this will be dealing with the

operational and privacy issues involved. we've started training airport security staff and behavioral analysis techniques which will help them to spot passengers acting unusually and target them for additional search. beyond this, we examining -- we are examining whether additional passenger profiling could help security. we will be mindful of civil liberties concerns and aware that identity-based profiling has its limitations, but conscious of our overriding obligations to protect people's lives in liberties. these build on the substantial progress we have made in recent years to strengthen our borders, including protecting people in transit against the watchless will be 95% complete by the end

of the years. it makes is one of a handful of countries to have the technology that can carry out advance passenger checks against our watch list before people travel to the u.k. those who apply for rugby's the will have to provide fingerprints and their records are checked against the new watchlist which holds over 1 million records of known criminals, terrorists, people retry the into the country illegally, or those who have been deported, and those considered to be a threat to our security. through the e-borders program, we have made 4900 arrests since 2005. in addition, the uk borders bath working with airlines prevented over 65,000 adequately documented passengers from

travelling to the u.k. during 2009. mr. speaker, addulmutallab's failed attack highlights the importance of information sharing between the various agencies about people who pose a threat to our security. you can watch list is managed by the u.k. border agency and incorporates intelligence from the law enforcement and the security and intelligence agencies into a single index. nevertheless, although the integrated approach works very well, we want to see if we can further strengthen it. we will be conducting an urgent review with the robustness of our watch list. it will report to me and two week's time and i will report the findings subject to security restrictions. there is a concern that addulmutallab's radicalization

may have been fuelled or started at university college, london. the tolerance promoted in higher education are one of the most effective ways of challenging views which we may find abhorrent but that remain within goal. however, we know that the small minority of people supporting violent extremism have actively sought to influence and recruit people through targeting learners and colleges and universities, and we must offer universities guidance to help prevent extremism. as part of a measured and effective response to the threat, the department of business innovation and skills have published guidance on managing the risk of violent extremism in universities, and will work closely with universities to provide targeted support. alongside this, each university

has a designated police security contact that university management can discuss concerns with. the strategy works closely with the higher and further education secretaries and has a full-time officer. his family believes that if left -- he turned to extremism after leaving the u.k. but we need to make sure that we continue our efforts to stop radicalization of young people in our universities. finally, mr. speaker, i want to say something about our work internationally and the steps the government is taking abroad to disrupt al qaeda where ever they are. our success in tackling the international terror threat depends on strong relationships with our international partners. in our efforts to fort al qaeda, we have a longstanding productive partnership with the

u.s. i am not prepared to discuss in this particular case about what we established -- what we shared and wind. we do not routinely comment on such intelligence matters. moreover, some of these issues are still current and are highly sensitive. however -- however, i would like to clarify that whilst we did provide information to the u.s. link to the wider aspects of this case, none of the information we held or shared indicated that addulmutallab was about to attempt a terrorist attack against the u.s. i spoke to the secretary of state and the homeland security. we discussed in the light of this failed attack that we will work together with our international partners to maintain confidence in aviation security and deepen our partnership to disrupt al

qaeda's activities overseas. forced out of afghanistan and under increasing pressure in the borders of pakistan, affiliate's and allies of al qaeda like al qaeda in the arabian peninsula group claiming responsibility for the detroit of -- bombing have raised their profile. then again demonstrated their intent to attack innocent people across the world. the aim of our counterterrorism strategy is not to reduce our own vulnerability alone, but to disrupt those organizations that pose a threat to the u.k., whether at home or abroad. al qaeda will take any opportunity to exploit instability, whether the threat is in somalia or yemen, pakistan, iraq, or afghanistan. we must support governments and work with partners to address both the threat of attack as well as the underlying causes

of extremism and instability. we have been working with the yemeni government, as my right honorable friend, the foreign secretary, has just said through law enforcement and security apparatus to disrupt al qaeda and denied their safe haven in yemen in the future. we are also one of the leading donors to the development of the country, standing at 100 million pounds by 2011. we recognize the need to strengthen further our partnership with countries in the region and beyond. that when we can coordinate against al qaeda more effectively and find greater support for the many people to reject extremism. international cooperation is critical to making what is a global threat, the coming together to discuss yemen will be an important step toward security there and across the globe. mr. speaker, it is important to

reiterate that this was a failed attack by a nigerian national on the u.s. by someone who was refused entry to the u.k. and who it seems was radicalized after he left this country. however there are lessons to be learned by the international community and the measures that i have outlined will provide the u.k. greater protection from terrorist attack. along with our work overseas and our international -- and with our international partners, enhanced airport security and more thorough collation of intelligence, we will be able to strengthen our efforts to attack the root cause of violent extremists on and reduce the threat of future attack. i commend the statement to the house. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i am grateful for the home secretary providing me an advance copy of this statement. let me start by dealing with the issue of airport security. i think we all have said that we have learned lessons from their recent plot, happily

unsuccessful, that additional security measures will have to be taken. the use of more sophisticates -- sophisticated scanning technologies are inevitable, though we have to make sure that sensible measures are taken to maintain privacy. but the statement is actually ambiguous about scanners. can he be clear, does he plan to make full body scanners compulsory at all u.k. airports? kenny clarify the situation also with the european union over the use of e-borders? we also believe that it is necessary to take a more intelligence-led approached, all much security as well as pledging for suspicious behavior among passengers. the government will have our support in taking prudent measures to protect passengers. these must under be -- these must be under constant review.

however, mr. speaker, the percentage planning themselves should not be the home secretary but the prime minister for it twice in three games the prime minister has been caught out making false claims about the contacts made between britain and the united states all over the security threat to our airport. he admitted to the bbc that supposed discussions between him and president obama of about the bomb plot about the situation in yemen had not actually taken place. then yesterday he claimed that britain had supplied intelligence about the bomb suspect and his link to extremists to the united states in 2008, a claim that downing street now admits is untrue. this the government that have systematically misused intelligence over the years, most notably in the so-called dodgy dossier for the prime minister to mislead our spend

intelligence information, particularly when related to a terrorist threat, does he agree that this is absolutely on acceptable behavior -- unacceptable behavior? it is to establish an acceptable principle that we did not comment on intelligence matters. why did the prime minister break that rule this week? does the home minister also agree with me that it is damaging to our most important intelligence relationships with the united states for information to be disseminated by downing street in such an inaccurate and cavalier way? mr. speaker, this entire house will be relieved that on this occasion the bomb plot was unsuccessful. it will serve as a strong reminder to the governments across the world of the ever- present terrorist threat and we all need to remain vigilant about that threat as well as united in a determination to defeat it. it is also worth saying that the

threat from a small group of islamic is remiss -- extremists in no way reflects the views of the vast majority of decent months and people around the world. people who have always been victims of terrorism of the decades, we must band together regans that thread. that task has not been helped by the actions of downing street in recent days. >> mr. secretary. >> mr. speaker, i do regret the fact that the honorable member uses this very tense time to score cheap party political points. to use this issue -- mr. speaker, i saw lots of faces on the benches opposite appalled that this situation should be used to make personal attack on the prime minister. the honorable member on the raised three points that i

believe are relevant to this issue. the first in terms of the number of all body scanners. what we need to do know is work with the airline industry to decide how many and where we can locate these scanners. as i said in my statement, we will have the first ready at heathrow within three weeks. there is a limited capacity to manufacture these and that these employees and also get the authority and the agreement of the different airline companies and their input into this. that will become much more widely available. the honorable member also talked of the eu's situation. that was clarified before christmas and there will be no e.u. community issues about the transfer of their permission. it still needs the country's transferring that information to agree about transferring techniques, but there is no e.u. issue which the commission it was originally looking record and the third issue, which was

about our use of intelligence and about our cooperation with united states. the prime minister was absolutely right, as i said in my statement, that we did share information with the u.s. none of this information or the nature of that information and the affirmation itself that we do not routinely comment on, but none of that suggested that addulmutallab was planning a terrorist plot. incidentally, i met jane lucas and mentioned that statement today, and she did not mention this issue at all this morning. this is a productive way to deal with this issue. to deal with these issues, and there is absolutely no relationship in the world stronger than the relation between the u.s. and the u.k., particularly on counter- terrorism where we work together and we will continue to work closely together in the light of this latest threat. >> chris him. -- hume.

>> i thank the secretary for statement. the announcement that scanners will be rolled out its welcome. but there are several questions to be raised, and can they -- and can confirm that all body scanners would have detected the substances carried by umar farouk addulhutallab? why is it taken so long for him to act, given that they are already in trial, and four are reported to be in storage at heathrow? and the third question is whether he will respect those who may have a deep felt objection to be -- to the scanners to opt instead for a pat down? and can he give assurances that the images will not be stored? profiling -- what does that mean? does he mean additional services

for suspicious -- those with suspicious travel partners? there will be several in this house that will dead. it means stopping every one that looks at asian, then he will alienate those two in -- his cooperation we need. then there is the information's sharing, which the home secretary really cannot commit -- dismissed by saying that the government does not comment on intelligence matters, particularly on recent developments from downing street? can he confirm that downing street told the u.s. that the bomber had linked to extremist groups, and that he was placed on the u.k. watch list? and a lot of these contradictions and the open spat with our closest ally, what measures has the government taken to improve the liaison with the indicted states or possibly with the prime minister's press operation?

given the detroit bombers layover, were the dutch authorities shared with our european -- was the affirmation shared with our european partners, and how can an eu country be informed of such information? do we routinely share information about our watch list to our unity and car parts -- european counterparts? and do these systems need to be improved? >> mr. secretary. >> on the issue of scanners. what they had been effective in relation of the time? the indications are, given where the six bosun was place, with them o -- with the explosive was ta -- where the

explosion was in place, there was a 50% chance of being detected. i think that we need to see the next wave of technology with explosive detection as well as the body imaging issue. we need to see that ahead very quickly. i do not accept that we took so long that act. this happened on christmas day and over the christmas period we have been discussing -- my colleagues at the secretary of state have been talking about the availability of this equipment. there was one body scanner at manchester. there have been a number at heathrow on a trial basis, but whether they are serviceable or whether they need to be operated on to be serviceable, is still an open question. the issue of privacy, mr. speaker, is going to be an

important issue, but given that all of the images are destroyed immediately, given that the person responsible for the scanning is separate in a separate room. there is a version that glass co as well. there is no immediate contact between the person doing the imaging and a person being imaged. i think we have to put these considerations -- they are important, but i think that we can actually ensure that those concerns will be satisfied. i cannot see a situation where people can simply object to a body scan. perhaps not as the first line, but as the second line on iran the bases as part of the defense. the honorable member mentioned the important issue of profiling. i said in the statement i recognize the sensitivities here. anyone who looks at the case in

1986, a pregnant woman in faded by her syrian -- inveigled by her syrian boyfriend to carry a bomb on board, the name would not have alerted anyone, but nevertheless the issue of whether we can deal with some of the sensitivity issues must be part of l%9eñ any defense we can find to ensure that this gap in our defenses, which thankfully was unsuccessful but which was found, and we need to recognize the concerns and the civil rights issues as well. on the issue of information sharing, we shared information all the time. we share information on a routine basis and you -- and the u.s. share information with us. we did not inform at the u.s. that addulmutallab was on our watch list because he refused a student visa, because that was

an issue conducted without any concern that he was coming to commit a terrorism incident. it was about an immigration issue. we would not share that routinely with the u.s. but we share other information with u.s., and we share this information routinely with our european union partners, although if there are concerns about counter-terrorism, it would not wait for a watch list and it would not wait for the plane to be taking off. it is outside of europe where we have the problem. within the european union, we have a very close relationship which means that we deal with the security issue straight away. we do not wait until they are trying to get on the plane and other countries. >> order. several members are seeking to catch my eye. like to accommodate everyone. the number should be perfectly manageable. level me remind the house that

there are two further statements to follow. each honorable member should ask a single, short, supplementary question, and that the home secretary will reply within equally economical answer. >> the home secretary is right to consult with the airline and measure the response, and we ought to have these body scanners. the international cooperation aspect is the most important. are there any more lessons to be learned as to how we can improve the situation? >> doubtless there are, and i recognize my right honorable friends expertise in this matter. i said in relation to the watch list, we think this integrated watch list so that there's not a separate -- in some countries there is a separate one for security and for policing in crime, and for those who lost

their passports and immigration issues, and integrate the watch list and with e-borders continually coming onstream, we can deal with this that has taken off. given that addulmutallab was not tried to enter the country but blow himself up before it landed, and that does not matter if this -- and it does not matter what country was his destination. i would be the last person to appear complacent about this. at the prime minister said, this is a wake-up call. every attempt must be picked to pieces of that we can find anything we can to strengthen our defenses and that is what we intend to do. >> mr. taylor. >> does the home secretary realize that scanners cover all white area? some require you to go through a box and others actually can do

it remotely in airport lounges or railway stations. can the government institute a research program -- several british companies are involved in this -- but we need to stay ahead of the terrorist and not deploy after every incident? >> the honorable member raises a valuable point. we are dealing with smith industry shortly and talking to the document that we repeat -- that we produce last year about our security minister in 2009, it was specifically aimed at the scientific community innovators to get this moving and to find new ways to deal with this. i think that the important part about this is that there is a big part of the british technology here said that we can actually exploit it and insurer -- which is one reason to talk to the airlines -- and that soul

-- and you're absolutely right. there are a variety of these scanners and we need to use them effectively. >> john bolwheaton. >> can i welcome the emphatic way in which the home secretary emphasized that there is no single magic bullet to solve these problems? in light of recent media comments, particularly the full body scanners which require standardized procedures, which are still in trials, and it requires a range of search procedures and technology, and above all, the last honorable gentleman who spoke said that it will require constant innovation in batted in everything that we do. can i therefore ask the home secretary it will build upon the good work been done by lord west and make sure that a partnership of the government and private industry is given more

resources in order that we can stay ahead of the cut of the terrorists in introducing new ways of terror? >> mr. secretary. >> i think my right honorable friend makes the point that my right honorable friend did and i agree. this is about reasonable efforts to stay ahead of the terrorists. we will not deal with the issue of body scanners alone. sniffer dogs every day, in looking for ptpn, and the use of behavioral detection -- all the techniques that we can use, even then we will not be 100 percent. we can never guarantee 100% safety. but there are a lot of people out there waiting to innovate and to work and to provide equipment in a technological capacity that can move us to the next level. i believe that that is really the main lesson of detroit on

the 25th of december. >> mr. robert keep. >> willie acknowledged a debt that we owed to the ministry of defense personnel and other start reduce servants working at one company in my constituency about terrorism who are responsible for all of the day-by-day innovation which goes on in terms of science and technology? and willie talk to the ministry of defence to have tremendous budget problems to ensure that there is not only no cut in the defense budget as it affects this, but that they should have all the resources that they need to counter terrorism? the boilers the home secretary. >> the honorable member is a great advocate for his constituency. i am talking to the defense secretary perry this is a cross-government initiative. we are all working to do this

using all the agencies of our government. >> aviation -- what new steps are being taken to link intelligence information with the best system of security at individual airports? babblers mr. home secretary. >> my honorable member -- my honorable friend is a member of the transport secretary committee. talking to jay lucas today, we're talking about the lessons from it and we're still talking through -- there was a view that we should go to brussels and the opportunity of the spanish presidency very interested in this matter comes up in a few weeks' time. more and more we're centering on that, the opportunity to get transport ministers, homeland security ministers, perhaps defense ministers as well

together to talk about an integrated program as to how we can act internationally. my honorable friend is absolutely right. by its very definition, a nigerian coming through holland to detroit with ramifications for a much wider set of countries, we need to deal with his senate -- with this internationally. >> mr. speaker, to organize the -- who authorized the downing street spokesman to talk about the bomber? >> i will not get into who authorized to to say what. what the prime minister said about exchanging information with united states was absolutely right. not all of that information remotely -- not that informational remotely indicated that he was planning an attack. >> with my right honorable friend considered a central

reporting area for members of the public who spot lapses of security in airports in which they are traveling coming in to the uk? the boilers mr. home secretary. the >> i will consider my honorable friend's suggestions. there are plenty of opportunities for people to report these things. there was a program over christmas about the emergency service being misused. there is a problem and a security problem, that is one cause of action and there are others. my honorable friends makes a good point and we will look away to make it easier for the traveling public to report any suspicious that they have. >> we have the only airport in the u.k. sector to terrorist attacks in scotland. can the scottish airports expected be a first line for the body scans and can he assure me that he will be working hand in glove with a scottish government

to ensure that the scottish airports are safe as possible? >> i can answer the honorable member on both of those points. we need to talk about which airports for three i believe he wrote, given the huge amount of transit -- because we're talking about transit passengers as well. addulmutallab was a transit passenger in holland and was not searched possible -- properly. i believe the discussions have already started with a scottish governments. >> mr. speaker, if we're concerned with the immediate threats obviously, but i -- can i pass on a warning given by a constituent who works in airports that there has been talk of introducing competition between terminals. with the on secretary ensure that security always comes before competition? >> the home secretary. >> i can give that assurance. i am not sure to what the honorable member is referring,

but in terms of providing security, no matter the terminal, the absolutely -- the absolute priority is security not competition. >> there have been many hill had expressed concern about the activities of schools and the role that they play in that radicalizing man like addulmutallab. can he confirm that schools will be swept up in those and that the matter of this schools will be -- the schools will be properly addressed? >> addulmutallab himself would to a british school, but this is an important issue that i need to discuss with my right honorable friend the foreign secretary to make sure that we're doing not only for local security but to prevent this radicalization taking place in the first place. with a that is in this country

or abroad. >> during this debate there has been some very interesting proposals about investing in research about the technology required to detect terror. i am concerned, although the home secretary acknowledge the risk of identity basis is for profiling, that there will not be sufficiently robust -- robust research into the consequences on young men who are muslim or asian who think that they are expected to be paid in a certain way and therefore say, why don't die? can he assure the house that there will be very robust research into the potential consequences of identity-based profiling before any such process is introduced? >> i can give my right honorable friend that assurance. behavior detection is different to profiling 3 behavior to profiling 3 behavior detection is used by the british transport police. they are well trained to do that, and it is observing

individuals and how they act around uniformed officers that gives certain signs away about whether they should be -- that is a preliminary to them being researched. it is different on profiling. i recognize that just the sensitivities and the civil liberties issues raised from the liberal -- the liberal democrat bridges -- ages, but we were talking about the terrorists being one step ahead, and if they think there is a profile that it escapes this, and it is our main weapon against them, then they will use that, whether it is pregnant women and or whoever else a gentleman like me. i think that is the other danger of profiling and we need to be very careful, and i am acutely aware of that, but it would be strange that if in response to detroit we did not cover all the different elements and all the different options and it thoroughly air -- and thoroughly

>> your government, the ministers government, cut the funding. could the secretary tell us what concrete, expert resources he is going to put into for the development on technology and manning of airports to ensure that our borders are more secure? >> i know the hon. member has experience in this field. i just don't understand the criticism of this government in terms of what we have invested in science. he is on the opposition benches and he was continually praising the government for the fact that when i was secretary of state, over half my budget was science and was quite frustrating because i could not touch it for other things. criticize us for a lot of things, but don't criticize the

government for their investment in science. >> insofar as possible, how would my hon. friend consult and communicate any changes? it is very difficult, obviously, because the change needs to be made that it would actually trigger, as he suggested, people's knowledge of doing these things, but it is also to avoid unnecessary communications as well. >> i think my hon. friend's. -- hon. friend's. -- point -- you have to take them along with us on this. i heard one of my friends actually supporting the use of profiling. there will be different views in different communities, extra different minorities. all i'm saying here is that it

would be irresponsible not to look at whether profiling can play a part in strengthening our defenses. >> if we introduce body scanners and searched more thoroughly, we will need for more space and personnel at our airports. given that most of our airports seem to be crammed full of dirty feet boutiques, -- duty-free boutiques, will security matters come first? >> maybe the hon. gentleman is inviting me to change the use of space at airports. i think this is one of the important discussions we have to have with the airport authorities and the airlines -- how we physically cannot do this with the minimum of inconvenience -- we physically can do this with the minimum of , and ensure that people can go about their daily business, that is a

very important part of these discussions. >> then we have stronger action for people who are expected of promoting extremism and those to be suspect becoming radicalize, and can we include in that list those people who go on offense of marches? >> we always keep these issues under the. it is important that we do not take action -- we are a democracy. on our university campuses, there needs to be proper debate. because people have the views that are found of all right but not illegal, it would be applauded for us to be heavy- handed in that respect. what we do to prevent is to strengthen the institutions to help individuals, to provide the information and the facts and the advice to those who want to

counsel some of these radical views. as part of this, of course, we deport and seek to deport a lot of people. there are many cuing up for deportation at the moment. they had their right to be the use of the european court, all of that is important, but provided we have done our job, those people will be deported. >> given the strong links that umar farouk addulmutallab had in this country, will the british police be able to interrogate him about those leaks? >> all that i can say at this stage, mr. speaker, is that two metropolitan police are working in america with the fbi on this case at the moment. the police were taking immediate action in this country. we did not comment on current

police operation. we will have to wait for them to come to a conclusion that may well involve the british police asking questions 3 we will have to see how the operation does. >> i have some constituents expressing concerns about health risks and dignity. is there anything on the public record about these matters? >> in terms of radiation, one is that there is less radiation from bodies can then you will get from actually flying, from the flight itself. on the issue of privacy, we can think and do more but at the moment the fact that all the images are distorted immediately, the fact that the person operating the machine is remote from the person being scanned, and that therefore there is no face to face contact, they are anonymous when being scanned, it is difficult to get around the privacy

issues, given where addulmutallab was trying to hide his explosha@ >> now available, c-span's book, "abraham lincoln -- great american historians on our 16th president." is a unique and contemporary perspective on the lincoln from 56 scholars, journalists, and writers, from the early years to life on the white house and its relevance today. in hardcover at your favorite bookseller and available in digital audio to listen to it any time, available where digital audio is sold. >> i am always concerned about the potential unforeseen consequences, unintended consequences of new regulations. or regulations of any kind -- regulations of any kind act as a

tax, and when you tax or regulate something, you tend to get less of it, you tend to diminish it. >> republican fcc commissioner robert mcdowell on a net neutrality and the wireless industry, saturday at 6:30 p.m. eastern on c-span. we take you live to a discussion on water issues in developing countries. we will hear about conflicts that arise due to water scarcity and efforts to develop water resources. speakers today include members of the group catholic relief services. live coverage from the woodrow wilson center for scholars and in washington. >> good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. i want to welcome you all to the woodrow wilson center. i have the good fortune and privilege today to welcome you

all to the center as the director of the environmental change in security program, a program that has tried to grapple with the very issues that we are looking at today, water and conflict and the broader context of health in this foreign policy and security policy context. obviously, are really a tremendous effort by a catholic relief services to wrap their arms around what you will see, a highly complex set of issues are route water conflict, but also incorporating water development, not just the threat, but the opportunity to respond. let me say a word about the wilson center. there are some new faces in the room. apologies -- we had a tremendous response, so those of you in the overflow room, our apologies. but the insides will be just as scintillating from there as well. instead of building an obelisk on the mall, we are actually a living memorial where a world scholarship and policy come

together. woodrow wilson was our only president of a ph.d. -- to have a ph.d. we are fortunate to have a former congressman lee hamilton as our president and director. we try to bring groups together like the ones we have in the room today, the ones we have watching on line, and once we have watching certainly on c- span. it is a terrific opportunity to share these insights, because as i said, catholic relief services has done a tremendous service by trying to take a stab at wrapping their arms around an enormous topic, and doing it both problem identification, but also ways forward, productive ways forward for its humanitarian organizations, one that what real impact that goes beyond just a given organization. i will turn the floor over to dennis warner of catholic relief services. he will keep us off and walk us

through the program. the floor is -- kick us off and walk us through the program. dennis, the floor is yours. >> thank you, and good afternoon. i'm dennis warner and i am the senior water adviser for catholic relief services, and i will be the moderator for that meeting today. there are people who do not have the seeds and need to seats -- there is a room one floor down at this end up the circular walkway, with a video feed where you can sit and watch and hear the panel in perhaps a bit more comfort. but it is your trees. at this point, i would like to ask ken hackett, president of catholic relief services, to make some remarks to you. ken he is the head of a work in -- ken is the head of an organization which is one of the largest humanitarian relief organizations in the world.

he oversees activities in over 100 countries, with a staff of our perching 5000 people. -- fallstaff approaching 5000 people. he became president -- a staff approaching 5000 people. he became president in 1993. >> thank you to the wilson center. this is an honor and pleasure. great turnout today. i want to start out by recognizing what our board members -- one of our board members from coming over and being with us. that is support from the top. this morning -- this afternoon, this conversation on water and conflict i think is going to be most interesting to i don't consider myself in any way expert in the topics, so what do you do if you are not an expert? you google it. i googled water and conflict,

and i came across something from the pacific institute which many of you know already, but it was water conflict chronology, and invested hundreds of events of conflict related to water -- it's listed hundreds of events of conflict related to water, from china and conflict there, to conflict around wells in eastern india -- eastern ethiopia. there's a lot of study that has gone into that. in our own work at catholic relief services, we've come to realize that in their budget related to water or irrigation -- intervention related to water or irrigation -- the philippines, you all seen it, the little plots that become contentious, and you put your fish traps -- as water becomes

more scarce, it is conceivable that the conflicts will increase in the years ahead. in my experience as a peace corps volunteer in ghana digging wells, in a rural community, the issue of where the well is becomes a passionate item, particularly for the women, who have to go the distance to carry the water. we believe that greater efforts must be made to understand the causes of such conflicts related to water, and to prevent disagreements from escalating into violence. i would suggest that for the humanitarian community, the development community, or other actors who are intervening on water programs, whether you are an engineering firm or whatever , we have to focus a great attention, applied better knowledge, more analysis, to

identifying emerging disagreements, and then figuring out ways to me to give them before they explode. water disputes -- ways to mitigate them before they explode. water disputes have the potential in extreme cases to burgeon into something much bigger, and i don't have to tell you where those examples are. catholic relief services has come to realize that we must in a proactive way to incorporate peace-building at fidelity's in our -- peace-building methodologies in our water and sanitation work. guidelines for such an approach are included in this new publication you can pick up outside, which you will hear more about this morning and this afternoon.

we have put together with a bunch of collaborators at catholic relief services. i am delighted to hear today what should be a very stimulating discussion with the panel that includes a leading voices from the office of conflict management and mitigation, georgetown univ.'s program on conflict resolution, and of course, the woodrow wilson center and its staff. thank you, and welcome to all of you. [applause] >> thank you, ken. the process we will fall here is i am going to introduce the three panelists to you. they will give their remarks, 15 minutes each, please, gentlemen, because we want to have questions and comments from you, the audience. be thinking about things that are relevant to the topic we are dealing with today.

the first speaker will be jason garrett, who is a water engineer working -- jason gehrig, who is all water engineer working in fort worth, texas. he spent years as an engineering adviser to the oblivion ngo -- to the bolivian ngo and has worked closely with the indigenous people of the andes, working at issues from the implementation of our rural and semi-urban communities sanitation projects to challenging the impose preposition of water services. -- imposed privatization of water services. the second speaker will be william hall, who is an adjunct professor in the conflict resolution program at georgetown university.

his teaching and research interests include the dynamics of environmental negotiation and the environmental and economic results of environmental conflict resolution. he also serves as a staff facilitator and mediator for the u.s. environmental protection agency conflict prevention and resolution center. our third speaker will be chip walker, who leads the one in an analysis -- tjip walker, who leads the warning and analysis team at the office of -- the agency of international development. he needs on issues including early -- lead on issues including early warning and a training and evaluation. he recently had a multi-year,

multi-protocol operation sponsored by the -- multi-donor operations sponsored by the oecd. with that, i will ask jason gehrig to give his presentation. >> good afternoon. pleasure to be here with you today. my name is jason gehrig. it was exactly 10 years ago today that my wife and i landed in bolivia, where we proceeded to make our lives on the outskirts of this impoverished city for the next seven and half years. the focus of my talk will be an overview of this book.

i will give one of the stories of my own experience with water and sanitation work in the bolivian andes. it is important to give a quick overview of the context in bolivia over the last decade. it has been living through a tremendous historical period where they've been able to achieve power, and as you can imagine, this has not come easily. i waste being blockaded for three or four weeks that time -- highways being blockaded for three of four weeks at a time. generally peaceful, but some tremendous brutality by government forces of order. two of those were induced by water-related issues, another by gas or in 2003, leaving 60 of our fellow residents murdered in cold blood. there are continuous water development efforts despite that. peace corps volunteers have been pulled out in 2002.

i bring that up because it it amazes me as an engineer to realize that we cannot just look at development without looking at the structural issues in play. let's see if my slides can punch up with a. -- can catch up with me. first of all, i would like to thank some key people. crs gave me free rein on this book. no topic was taboo. what a conflict has -- water conflict has tremendously powerful interests at play. it speaks truth that i think make it a very valuable resource. the academic resources, the time that i was able to write this book. the lay mission is for the opportunity to be with the core -- lay missionaries for the opportunity to be there with the

corps. finally, my wife. what i'd like to consider my year-and-a-half sabbatical writing this story, she was working a tail off. let's get to the book. the first part of the book is background. it is intended to serve the development community, human rights advocates, who are so often called to wear so many different hats, from grant writing to community organizing to being technical crews. what we did was we brought together some run for research by academics, institution, -- some wonderful research by academics, institutions, and try to make it more accessible. we addressed the issue of grinding poverty, the key issues that any water sanitation effort will be addressing. and also, the increasing water scarcity that will likely be a catalyst for increase of

violence at the local level. it gets into the various underlying causes of water conflict, multiple. what i will do at this point is go into one of them that we went through. shortly after arriving in bolivia, we were sitting down to learn spanish, and the word "agua" -- it did not take much to realize that these people were mad as hell that their water system had been privatized. many of it neighborhoods -- the neighborhoods served by cor operatives were having to pay. having -- guaranteed profits of 15% or 16%. wouldn't it be nice to have that kind of guarantee for us? in 2005, there was a similar

revolt. the water services had been privatized, and the people, after eight years -- i was living on the outskirts with people making $2 a day, and they were expected to pay $450 for water service connection. that is about nine months of their income. as you can imagine, it was not as pro-reform as many of the studies were claiming. there is heartening efforts on the international level, the move towards promoting water as a human right, access to safe water as a human right. the wisdom of indigenous people -- they considered water as from the mother earth.

taking this water, so key to their whole understanding and relationship with the natural world, and for somebody to make a profit out of it. half of humanity's lives are so intertwined with water, and yet at the same time, so systematically removed from any decision making. also, from various state traditions, the contribution -- coming from a catholic background and the catholic social teaching that is out there. before we start -- we are going to go out there and fix other people's problems -- we need to be in touch with our own issues, personal, organizational, and we need to be what we promote. the challenges that a more technically oriented for myself, an engineer -- i cannot tell you

how exciting it was to build those tanks and see that water flowing. but i quickly realized that the technical dimensions of these projects were not all that complicated. it was the social organizing side. i came to realize that we should not be the thing that is just another obstacle to overcome to make a ssuccessful project, but we could be building at social infrastructure and strengthening the existing networks that could handle future conflicts at the local level i have a quick story -- i hit the ground running and was put in touch with good people when we first arrived. this is a remote area. in a year and have time, we were able to install half a dozen systems, and we made sure that we secured the issue of the water supply source before we even began the survey. making sure that the community

members sacrifice and provided the manual labor. the repaying half of their income towards materials. but when all of it was done, it was not a handout, but a true effort amongst partners. unfortunately, what happened, after about a year and a half, there was a power play, and half of the villages began to support a different man for the mayor. when i was going out there, white water superintendent was already out in villages lobbying -- my water superintendent was already out in villages lobbying for the current mayor. the largest communities that did not have water come up waffling in its support -- there was absolutely no follow up. what i came to realize was that the mayor was sending a clear message to people -- if you want the gringos with the money, and you keep me in power.

i bring this up not just as a rookie mistake, which it was, but because i think this is a dilemma that we in the international community face. the funds we bring it come with strings attached. some of the homegrown corruption issues play as well. we have to have core values in place. in ione agency, there were bragging -- they were proud of the fact that their food aid was able to calm down the situation. looking at the legitimate causes of the blockades and the first place -- is that peace building? i think that if we ask the pouor

that we were supposedly serving, they would say no. giving direction on how we want to orient our peace-building and water efforts, looking at those social justice issues, promoting relationships in areas where there is historical tension among people, institutional development i don't think we can promote local decision making enough and be willing to step back and let them flourish. we touched on the aarp development approach as well. -- appropriate development approach as well. i was put in touch with a specialist and what we were able to do was go into these local municipalities, because it was key that the local governments participate. by using the outside funding as leverage, and putting the funds

in place and doing it right, and removing that way-too-prevalent corruption, we were able to do that successfully. to do that, we came up with a time to mature, telling villages that we would love to help you out, but your elected officials are not ready to do things right. if they could put pressure on other officials to do things otherwise -- in fact, some of them did, and we would come back. one example of how water development can address the various issues related to conflict. the second section of the book is geared for folks who are intentionally going into areas where existing water conflicts exist and using the water transformation tools and techniques to help you god that process. i sit with -- help you guide the

process. i say it for those folks -- any water effort is going to involve conflict. i can tell you numerous stories of the conflicts with water development, but we will save that for another day. finally, the book gets into concrete action steps. dennis was telling me, "jason, we are engineers. these lofty ideas -- we need things to be tangible." we look at the more typical examples of what a conflict out there. -- of water conflict out there. the issue of mining -- i will touch on that in a second -- displaced persons and refugees. bring up the issue of mining because it is truly a life and death issue. in el salvador, the crime was to

demand ecological sustainability for the mining operation. in this case, it was on line in it all salvador where this young woman was killed just two -- a mine in el salvador or alwhere s woman was killed just two weeks ago. we need to be at the sight of these people, the mining that -- demanding that they are ecologically sustainable. additional areas of a further study on what we touched on in this book -- water is areas in africa and asia -- waters and areas in africa and asia. what can be done, what is working? my hat is off to folks who are

trying. the issue of addressing water contamination -- as we continue to make headway to getting more access to safe water, we need to the issue of how we continue to make water truly a renewable resource, and that involves more than just contamination issues. it will be technically challenging, but it is necessary and other success stories -- what is working out there? to conclude, basically, to truly be builders of peace, we need to be able to listen and went over hearts and minds. -- win over hearts and minds did not just the people we serve, but our own. human dignity and peace becomes our own. thank you very much. [applause]

>> happy new year, everyone. i think it is not too far into the new that i can still say that. my name is will hall, and i

represent georgetown university -- i am an adjunct professor at the conflict resolution program. i want to thank catholic relief services and the wilson center for a i think is an important family discussion. as was mentioned, a work for the environmental protection agency and they are supportive for me being here, but anything i say is not going to be reflective necessarily of the officials of the agency. my second additional hat -- like ken, i was a peace corps volunteer, not quite so long ago, 20s ago, in congo -- zaire at the time. i remember very well the women and children climbing long distances, uphills usually come to get water from springs, and what i captured off might roof in a drum, and i was using it

for bathing water. i come here today as a human being who is deeply concerned about the state of the environment on our planet and the consequences for our people, our fellow travelers. i think this kind of discussion is a good step forward in dealing with those issues. reviewing the twitter conflict documents -- the water and conflict documents brought up some ideas for me. i will go into those in general and an adult in two specific questions that resonated with me as i was going to be documented the first was why did no -- the document. the first was why did i not have something like this when i was going through? it is very accessible. a number of different audiences will be able to appreciate the content. the element workers, government agencies as well. -- and development workers,

government agencies as well. it is active and passion, and i think that is important, given the gravity of the situation we are facing with water and conflict. i appreciate the specific examples of or offered. they were all very concrete and detailed. three specific things that i wanted to mention at highlight as important -- the value of in- depth and participatory analysis, getting people involved in analyzing the situation that they are facing is critically important. involving as many stakeholders as possible, including those who are marginalized and may not be obvious on the face of it. these people trade by different names, but they can be very helpful. my last comment is the breadth of the territory that the publication covers. it is very broad. rather than being a weakness, i think this is a strength. this is a multifaceted.

we are all involved in -- a multifaceted area that we are all involved in and it is reflective of the multifaceted challenges that we face. tools and techniques is where i come from as a practitioner and a researcher. these are the questions that came to mind that i would like to address, at least partially, in the form today. i will talk about the environmental conflict resolution, which is my word for peace-building, and in a broad term, it covers mediation, community involvement, and other sorts of things. i will speak about it in the very general term. these thoughts are hardly the last words on the topics, but they are intended to complement the ideas in the publication. i will refer to research and evaluation efforts. these are not without caveats. i will just offer them for your consideration.

the first issue i would like to address is what is the i -- when is the situation right for ecr? what i find particularly helpful is work by a quaker and scottish peacemaker -- in a book on the building peace, it highlighted this particular graphic and i will share with you a little bit about it. it essentially suggest that conflict is a dynamic situation, and it has progressions, we hope, from a situation where power is on ballast to where it is more sustainable, sustainable -- is unbalanced to where it is more sustainable, and a sustainable peace. people are not aware of where it needs to be before people can be aware of it. then there is a time where awareness is raised of confrontation, and the confrontation can be very

necessary in order to get to a place where the power is balanced and people can engage in environmental conflict resolution of any sort. it also takes the form of negotiation, and it can be mediation, all whole range of other things. and getting through some sort of negotiation is to get to some sustainable peace. that has always resonated with me. it's just that at the different stages, there are different rules that are important. he will meet advocacy and awareness raised. confrontations -- you will need advocacy and awareness raised through confrontation as well. in the crs document, that is highlighted as important. only then can you get to the rules of peacemaker, negotiator. this is the dynamic model, and it is possible to go forward and backward. what is the goal of ecr?

it is feasible when the power is relatively balanced and advocacy has been done. it is important to think of the goals not only in terms of the substantive outcomes, building infrastructure or wells or capping springs and building latrines and the things i was involved in, but also how people will be involved. i want to share with you a version of the chart adapted from the international association of public participation, from their web site, and it basically talks about, as decision makers come interveners, people involved in these situations, it is extremely important to say what will we are working towards. is it out reach, where we are simply providing information? is it information exchange, where we are trying to get some back and forth, but not necessarily agreement or consensus? do we move into a recommendation

were people are advising on the situation or trying to reach an agreement amongst themselves, or are we engaged in this to call their action where we are trying to get stakeholders to do things the -- need to do are we in -- are we engaged in stakeholder action where we are trying to get the stakeholders to do things themselves? sometimes people make promises they don't necessarily keep. it is very, very important in these sensitive issues, sensitive areas, to be sure that you are true to that promise all the way. what gets ecr started? probably a lot answers to this, too. i will share my own research. and look at environmental organizations, mostly from the north america, and look at what carries them forward to the conclusion. i have a model that i adopted

from work from others, and the turning point, the changes that occur in the dynamics of the negotiation, and the persistence of the turning points, the role that might precipitate change, and the kinds of substance of activity that was going on. -- substantive activity that was going on. i was interested in this to see, first of all, if i could apply the from work, but also, what it might reveal about the different roles that might be played. here is what the -- found out -- here is what i found out -- to get the negotiations started, it is procedural and external roles that make a difference. procedural and external roles. i mention it very clearly in my data. for the purposes of this, and

looked back at the cases that were water-related. external walls here are people who are either process experts, like meat eaters, or people who have a -- and influencelike mediato -- like mediators, or people who have an outside influence. i think this is important, because it speaks to the power of the process, when they are process interveners, but it also speaks to other kinds of and influences that have an impact on environmental issues. it is the price and stakeholders themselves that are typically engaged -- i parties and sticklers themselves that are typically engaged in bringing the issues to closure. my colleagues, some of whom are affiliated with the u.s. institute for environmental

resolution in tucson, arizona, published something you want to look at rid the that it 52 cases from federal agencies as -- and its unit they looked at 52 cases from federal agencies in the united states to see what makes them work. patricia shared this graphic with me, so i can share it with you today. essentially, this was the framework. what it boils down to is that you get to the agreement reached, having agreements that are high quality, and having the working relationships improved, the intermediate variable is that you have the participants involved and actively engage. the things that seem to be important in getting to that point, as well as having a direct effect on the agreement, are making sure that the appropriate parties are involved, making sure that you have everyone in the room had a conversation, even if it is not obvious you should be there. meat eaters and the facilitators are very important.

and incorporating a -- high-m -- mediators and facilitators are very important. and incorporating high-quality, relevant information. only one study, not without limitations, but it is relatively new and i thought i would offer it up for consideration from folks here today. what are the results of ecr? what do we get for the time and expense? sometimes it is an extra expense. it does not seem to add to the bottom line, does not seem to get to the infrastructure that we are trying to create to solve these water conflicts. sometimes we have agreements, and agreement rates and research range everywhere from 51% to 91%. but that is not enough. grantors, government agencies, others who are finding these activities -- funding these

activities -- what they want to know what we get as a result. we remain in some aspects a fifth-based initiative. -- faith-based initiative. i happen to be a believer and happen to have the faith that this is important and useful work, but these other organizations are often looking for a different kind of good news to get to the outcome that they are looking for. i would like to share with you some work that i've been doing -- the graphic did not work out -- with some colleagues on at trying, i think for the first time, to capture the economic and environmental results of using these kinds of processes. we have a model that is competitive, which is really, really important when you are doing these kinds of -- comparative, which is really, really important when you're doing these kinds of research.

try to make the comparison. i want to share with up of the results of the work we have done. in oregon, we had a handful of cases, it dealt with hydro electric issues, some officials stock issues, as well as the water basin transfers. we are careful about generalizing the results, but what we found for three of the cases is that the environmental index that we constructed using these kinds of anne arundel fax -- these environmental effects, for two of the cases we were able to do that comparison, that it is better to collaborate and work it out rather than to do whatever the alternative was. these are but a hydroelectric licensing issues, at the alternative would of been to use litigation or a standard type of process. some of the information gathered as part of the evaluation for

two of the cases, a water basin transfer case, and a hydro electric case -- we look at how many more fish would be restored as a result of the agreement that the parties reached. here we present that. for economists, it is sort of a benefit transfer method. really for the first time we were able to capture these kinds of benefits from an ecr-type process. we did another handful of case studies on water cases, again, and these were enforcement cases, the nature of the work that epa does, and with one exception, we were able to show improvement of ken mar road will -- of a rat -- of the environmental effects in a 10- year time span and a 50-year time span.

this is forward-thinking. it is a way of doing analysis that really has not been done before, to work in progress. but it is really the first time that someone has tried to capture these kinds of benefits from using decisionmaking processes like ecr. we also at the same time looked at, in a rough way, it's the agency using this process, just in terms of staff time. we cannot get the numbers of others involved. in three out of four cases, it was a net savings on the part of the agency compared to the alternative process, the various forms of litigation. i would like to wrap up with a few closing remarks. in particular, focus on my thoughts as a practitioner.

i think, first of all, it is important to carefully assess the conflict or situation and do so in a collaborative way with people. it is not just an assessment that is separate from the resolution process, but part of the resolution process. you get people to a place where the a thinking about agreement, and they try to do small agreements along the way, which can help them with the collaboration and they need to do in the future. i think the document speaks to this very well. the other it is the importance in value, often overlooked, of professional conflict resolution expertise. i think, despite the additional expense, it can offer a couple of things. first of all, it gives the substantive experts and decision makers a chance to do their job, to let someone else handle the procedural kinds of issues that can be really challenging for folks, and let them focus on the things that they're best at. second, it breaks an impasse we

see time and time again that the facilitators and mediators can help them get through the top spot. one of my favorite roles is the conflict coach. they are behind the scenes working with decisionmakers who themselves do not want to give up control of the situation but can benefit from a little advice along the way. i think an important contribution of a conflict resolution, environmental conflict resolution, is to offer hope where people who are involved in environmental conflict don't see a way out. in these situations, some of the consequences can be quite dire, not only for local people, but for all regions of the planet -- whole regions of the planet. ecr offers a path forward in many cases, a different way of

thinking about things that can help people get to a better place. it is not a panacea, of course, but it can help show way forward. in closing, i reflect back on the five questions about the tipping point, processes and results. it strikes me not only as a way of organizing expectations, but many of questions that development workers and others can ask themselves when they are out in the fields working on these challenging kinds of issues, and perhaps would be a help to those of you involved in that directly. i want to thank you for your attention and i look forward to the rest of the panel conversation and i would be glad to follow-up with you afterwards if you have questions or comments about my presentation. thank you. [applause] >> i am tjip locker with the

office of conflict management -- tjip walker with the office of conflict management and in addition with the u.s. agency for international development is a pleasure to be here today. again, it is a pleasure to be here this afternoon. intriguing that all three of the presenters today had at least one thing in common, it turns out, and that is that we have all been peace corps volunteers. i, however, had nothing to do with water and so forth. i was working on coffee cooperatives in cameroon about 25 years or so ago. i, this issue primarily from the perspective of -- come to this issue primarily from prospective of being from conflict, rather than being an engineer or expert

on water resource management. that does not mean that usaid does not look at it from that particular perspective, and as i was preparing for these remarks, i was impressed to see the amount of information available on the website that describes the various kinds of approaches that we take looking at very much the same questions from the largely similar perspective to this book, which is on the standpoint of how to be developed at water resources -- how do we develop water resources in a way that is environmentally sensitive and also pays attention to local social dynamics. but i look at this question primarily from the standpoint of saying what is the issue of water and water development say for somebody -- the questions that are raised from the standpoint of somebody primarily looking at it from the issue of conflict. i, a 2too, want to commend crs r

taking on this particular topic. the more that we all can collectively held and the staff that we have -- help the staff and partners that we have to better integrate conflict sensitivity into ongoing program development, the better off we are going to be. i see this new book as a welcome addition to that group. i am going to be shameless about this and do a little bit of advertising of our own. we, too, also have a number of natural resources related tool kits, what we call tool kits, that address similar kinds of issues, and we have them on land, mineral, forest, and natural resources, and several others as well, all of which are on the usaid.gov website. the whole question of how we can do development more sensitively is a very important one, and i

want to congratulate crs for taking on this very complex topic. indeed, in many ways, there is -- although we all almost taken for granted, there is really out there no more complex commodity or good out there than water. it exists in a variety of different forms, and we care about it for a lot of different purposes. it is important for everyone, and we depend upon it for survival. for all those reasons, it is, in some ways, almost unique. but in many other ways, it does come in fact, look like many other kinds of services or goods that are out there. what i want to frame my remarks about is essentially looking at this question of water from a conflict perspective, but looking at it and saying how is water similar to a lot of other goods and services that are out there, and how does it relate in

that respect? looking more narrowly at water from the standpoint of one of its more unique characteristics as a common pool resources, what does that do looking at it from the conflict perspective? lastly, looking more precisely at this question of the more unique characteristics of water from a conflict perspective. one of the other -- i also just want to stress, similar to professor hall, that i as a conflict expert was very pleased to see the extent to which this book really doesn't fully embrace what we would consider -- does fully embrace what we would consider to be the best practice with conflict sensitivity, conflict dynamics. the issue of assessment has already been mentioned. the emphasis on mentoring and evaluation, engaging stakeholders in this particular stakeholders in this particular process and evaluation.