affected, and central government, can give them. i assure the honorable lady that salt supplies have been built up as a result of what we discovered and did last year. at the same time, i can announce that there will be greater co-ordination of the distribution of salt, so that those areas that need that salt will not be denied it. i hope that i will be able to reassure her constituents that they will get the salt and the grit that are necessary. >> mr. graham allen. >> what recent representations he has received on bringing forward proposals arising from the report of the select committee on the reform of the house of common? >> the leader of the house has written to representatives of the other parties on this issue. the government are keen to proceed on a consensual basis. >> uk politics has become ever more the private playground of governments and the media, and this place, parliament, an ever more tatty backdrop, with little independence. will the prime minister take the powers that he has to bring forward to our agenda-not for debate, but for decision -- the proposals to

reform this house? will he please do that in the next few weeks? >> it is in all our interests to say that both the standard of debate in this house and what is discussed in this house should reflect the views and values of the people of this whole country. all of us want in this new year to make sure that the house is discussing the issues that matter to people. we welcome the select committee report. i know that he has taken a long- standing interest in these institutional reforms. the creation of a back-bench committee, a business committee and party ballots -- all these are being looked at in detail. the leader of the house has made it clear that we will have an opportunity to debate them in due course and to discuss the recommendations. >> mr. david heath. >> in due course? we have been waiting for weeks. is that not typical of this government and this prime minister? he made a big announcement on june 10 last year that we were

to have urgent reform of the house of commons, but when it comes to action the government act with all the dispatch of a particularly arthritic slug on its way to its own funeral. will he tell us whether he is still committed to urgent action on reforming this ineffective and incompetent house, or are there people on his own benches who are stopping that from happening? >> he gives me a great deal of hope that the consensual approach will work. i think that he is part of the talks. the talks are taking place. the issues about the creation of a business committee, party ballots for select committee membership and ballots of the whole house for select committee chairmanship were recommended by the committee chaired by my honorable friend the member for cannock chase >> we are now discussing these issues, and they will form the subject of a debate and decisions by this house. >> a discussion of terrorism

with a brand michael jennings. william taylor will join us to talk about the role of afghan civilians and taking leadership. washington journal, live at 7:00 a.m. eastern here on c-span. >> i'm always concerned about the potential of unforeseen consequences of new regulations. regulation of any kind act as a tax, and when you tax to regulate something, you tend to get less of it. you tend to diminish it. >> republican fcc commissioner robert mcdowell on efforts to create of national broad grand plan. that is at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span2. >> "american icons" -- three original documentaries from c- span now available on dvd.

a unique journey through the iconic homes of the three branches of american government. see the exquisite detail of the supreme court through the eyes of the justices. go beyond the velvet ropes of public tours into those rarely seen spaces of "the white house -- america's most famous home." and explore the history, art, and architecture of "the capitol," one of america's most symbolic structures. "american icons" -- a three- disc dvd set. it is $24.95 plus shipping and handling. order online at c- span.org/store. >> as negotiations continue on a compromise on health care, have lawmakers made progress? >> there is a stage right now where they are working out the small things. the house has been meeting pretty extensively over the forum -- over the phone with their entire caucus. top senators like max baucus and chris dodd and harry reid had been meeting on their own as well. they are still trying to figure out exactly what the biggest issues are and how they're going

to begin to resolve them. this is step one of a several- stage negotiating process. i think they really are trying to get this done very quickly. what they're going to have to tell the caucuses in each house. >> have they said which version of the bill they are going to work with? >> the house is going to take up the senate bill perhaps an insert that -- and insert in that whatever compromises have been worked out. in fact there is when to be a strong bias for a lot of the programs in the senate bill where they differ. i don't think a lot of decisions have been made on exactly how these issues are getting worked out, but there are some areas where they know where they are headed, treating the high cost of the cadillac taxes in the senate bill.

>> speaker pelosi and a number of house democrats are continuing to say open that the house bill is better than the senate. how does that affect negotiators' efforts to get this bill passed? >> that is negotiating 101. the people in the senate are saying the senate bill was the best. we're definitely at a stage where everyone is sticking to their guns and day one it their way are no way at all. we will see a lot more compromise in the weeks ahead and there's a possibility that some physicians have already been made and they are not releasing them yet, just to keep the rank-and-file happy. >> do we know yet how the bill will be paid for? >> that is a very open question at this point. they both have different revenue positions. the house bill relies heavily on attacks on the wealthiest americans. the senate bill has a wider

menu of revenue enhancement. one of those is called the cadillac tax, the tax on insurance casts which cost more than 23,000 yeaa year. the senate and the president are in support about one. some form of that, probably modified, will end up in the house bill as part of the pay for. >> if they end up working with the senate bill, is it too early to know if the votes are there to get it passed? >> it is absolutely too early to know. there's no margin for error in the senate one thing could upset the applecart. the leaders will be negotiating with each other, and it will be constantly going back and forth to their members and saying, is this ok, is this ok, and making sure that when they change

something in the negotiations with the other chamber, they are not losing the votes in the run chamber. >> we're hearing that president obama will be at a meeting with the democrats, along with former president clinton. >> it appears that president clinton will be giving away address on health care. he famously tried and failed to pass a giant health-care overhaul back in 1993 and 1994. i have the sense that clinton is going to say something along the line of reminding democrats to take some perspective on what this bill man's -- means. we know that you have policy differences is but the reality is that you have to work this out to get a health care bill passed. that is more important than who wins on the cadillac tax or the public plan, things like that. he is at a decade and a half a perspective on that.

>> drew on strong rights for "congressional quarterly." for the latest on the health- care debate and your to your comments, go to our health care hub on line at c-span.org /healthcare. tomorrow on c-span, live coverage of the massachusetts senate debate with candidates. that's special election is set for january 19. watch live coverage of 7:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span. >> coming up, republican pollster kellyanne conway talked about the 2010 midterm elections, and author anne kornblut on her book. a little later, is q&a with

michael scammell. republican pollster kellyanne conway gives it falls on the 2010 midterm election, the obama administration, and political conservatism. this portion of for speeches about 35 minutes. >> this is somebody who ran on feel-good phraseology like hope and change. great campaign sound bites, easy to repeat, easy to knock your head in agreement, but specifics in government are very

difficult -- very much different. when you're done making history, you need to start making policy. you need to really see polls and public opinion. i know many elected officials and voters are skeptical the poll. the say that i lead by example, i don't think about polls. but it's taking crackly and scientifically and fairly worded questions, not like the ones i read your earlier, they can be a very important headstone to we the people. it gives us an opportunity to tell our elected officials and our community leaders what it is that is making us anxious are frustrated. what are our expectations and our desires and hopes are individuals responding to polls or service groups, -- focus groups, there is a richness of opinion and knowledge that comes

from we the people. i hope more elected officials will look at the polls if they are scientifically improperly drawn. what the polls saying third 2009? everyone is saying this and think the number one issue has been jobs and the economy. that is it. when health care started to spike up to no. 2 or no. 3 on the issue, it was not necessarily because people are saying, that is a great idea to talk about health care. it is also the no. 2 and no. 3 issue and pulls the -- polls because people are worried that this health care bill may come to pass. it does not mean that they think that they wanted and that that is all some and i concur. it may not be the best idea. but jobs and economy are the number-one issue. even today, unemployment is still 10% nationally, and right

before the election -- it was 6.8%. unemployment was under 5% in 2004. it is at 10% now. these of the government's numbers. if that is the number-one issue, why hasn't it been the number one issue? i think that is the question most voters are asking themselves. why has it not been a bigger priority to update policy and force u.s. tax dollars ato fund abortions overseas, which most americans are against. why are they bailing out detroit to make sure that mortgages are protected, even those people say they are not the number one issues? why is it important to gut it

copenhagen twice, first to sell the olympics and then to attend a global warming conference in the middle of a blizzard? i am asking the question -- why are we listening to people when they say they are starving for jobs? why are they looking for economic rebounds? what we look at the 16 million women who currently own all or part of a small business? think of the end told business -- the untold millions of other americans who would like to harness their entreprenuers as somism, why can we allow them to flourish instead of suffocating them from the beginning? let me read lament -- some of these numbers to you. we've compiled this from a number of national polls so that the sample size is taken from over 3000 people in each of these three-month period

between january 2009 and january 2010, over a full year now. president obama's approval ratings has declined among every single group with the exception of african-american voters. he is down 1% among self identified liberal democrats. it down 3% among democrats. down 15% among independents. 15% among women. every gender, every age group, every geographic group, all levels of formal education, every marital status -- down in his approval ratings. i am second and no one when talking about -- i am second to know one when talking down about public approval ratings. people did not go to the public

-- to the ballot and think how much do i like you. but when he ran his campaign, he ran on appeal and likability. people endorsed him over hillary clinton talking about that very thing. his appeal in his career as a whole -- charisma and his likability and is generational transformative qualities. mark penn, hillary clinton's pollster, was still talking about president obama's general approval rating. let show people this. let's show these publicly available media polls that his approval polls have declined precipitously by double digits of the past year. it is not just the president of the united states, but the commander-in-chief and he is the leader of the party that currently holds a very strong majorities in both houses of the

federal legislature, many governorships, and many state legislatures. he is the chief messenger on all of those things. it is significant. let's take a look at his approval ratings in the approval ratings of the democratic party on this issue as well. if you look at issues, for policy upside down on iraq, on afghanistan, illegal immigration -- -22%, according to cnn polls. cnn again on unemployment, the federal budget deficit, the war in iraq, taxes, health care policy now. all of these measurements by anyone who counts, he is not doing well on these issues. you are running based on attributes and talking about transformation, talking about hope and change, and you are

talking about helping the middle class and having a clear vision for the country, then it is fair game to ask these questions. cnn poll began, between last year in this year, inspires confidence down 12%. strong leader, down 18%. is the person you admire, down 8%. down 26% on his own measurement of not dividing the country. these are all measurements and attributes of generic approval. it means that people are anxious. i think it really does short shrift of our concern sentence and read what people were showing up to tea parties, meetings, and protests who are

taking a right to their members of congress's, republicans and democrats, and are being totally dismissive to say that they are angry. they are angry. look at them. they are nervous. they are anxious. they are worried about generational debt including the federal budget deficit, about the broken campaign promises, and about the fact that we are trying to pass health care reform when 81% of voters in this country say they like health care that they have. would they change things about it? of course. almost anything in america or their lives. marriages, wait, jobs, slightly higher say they are happier in their marriage. we would always change things if we could. but a high level of satisfaction with your own health care reform coupled with an incredibly enormous price

tag and a base level of uncertainty. based on medicare cuts new regulations, penalties, people ads looking at the health care reform as constitutional, if it does not violate the excessive fines and punishment. you can go to jail or pay a fine for not having this kind of program. all of these are very legitimate concerns that people are taking security and affordability. people talk about security -- is national security but it is also a social security. affordability -- that can beat the tax and the deficit, that could be college tuition, that could be the cost of living and quality of life, that could be entrepreneurship. wall street, main street -- all

of that has to do with affordability. that is what we hear is important to the voters going into 2010. with respect to the new democratic congress, how will that bode well for republicans? it may bode even better for conservatives. many people laughed when we talk about how conservatism is on the upswing when present obama got reelected. the gun and 60 votes in the senate, including al franken, but it turns out that they could not pass many of the things that they could not pat bridge -- that they wanted to pass. you read all these stories, about how the republican party is a regional party in a relevant and we will be a one- party system. the fact is that however the

ebbs and flows go with party politics, conservatism has been the dominant ideology in our culture for a number of years now. go look it anyone's polls that show conservatives are 40% of americans, they call themselves conservatives. ladies and gentlemen, this is why liberals do not call themselves liberals anymore. they have read the same polling data. they know that. they call themselves progressives, and they spent quite a pretty penny coming up with that term, progressives. its car insurance, i know. but if they will not call themselves liberals, perhaps they should. again, even nancy pelosi does not stand there representing a fairly liberal and progressive district and say, in this

congress we are going to grab your guns and increase the number of abortions and increase your taxes. nobody talks like that. they run -- it's no different than william daley serving in bill clinton's cabinet who just this past week had an op ed urging the democratic party to moderate its views. sound familiar? that was the recall to the republican party. if you have 16 republican congresswomen, half of whom are pro-life and half who are pro- choice, and yet all of them unanimously voted against health-care in part because it would change our law and allow federal funding for abortion. that included the pro-choice women in the caucus, and the they agreed on that much.

this is where the conservative movement and the republican party are different. we're going to primary anyone who votes for the nelson amendment. the mass will have one. welcome. welcome to the faith based crowd. for them, there is no compromise there. and yet we are able to welcome in the republican party both views. but the conservative movement is on the upswing because we're taking a long not only does it call themselves conservatives, but a huge number of independents. people who voted for barack obama just a year ago, calling themselves conservatives and aligning themselves with the republican party. moderates are still by and large aligning themselves with democrats and independents are aligning themselves with republicans. they are not interchangeable.

it is unfair use those interchangeably when looking at the political landscape and possible realignment. when people thinking about the independent vote, they are not independent because they declared independence from both parties. over 60% of independents disapprove of both parties in the congress right now. but many of them are libertarians, also. you see them showing up at the tea parties and the town hall meetings and now speaking -- you'll see many of them start to run for office. just as you see the democratic retirements, use the conservatives coming out of the woodwork the saying that 2010 is my time. i have to get off the sidelines. many of them sat it out in 2006 and 2008. why?

they're not going to vote for republicans who acted like democrats. i am pretty sure they are not going to vote for democrats that act like democrats. i know a lot of people look back at 2006 and said that they lost 30 seats because mark foley are deep cunningham. i think we lost those seats because of that. but we did not lose at disparate ideologically different seats because of that. very different members of congress, very different records in congress. there was something going on many would-be republican voters, most of whom are conservative, stated, and sat it out. they were conscientious objectors, voting because they pay attention to politics and they are coming back.

i am really debating whether the likely voter model makes much sense for 2010. i've been one of the major proponents of having even more screens defined likely voters. you might live out young voters in new voters, immigrants who cannot vote have been naturalized and have their citizenship. you're leaving out people who have moved -- we are very mobile country. and you are leaving out voters who have not voted but now feel that they can vote. if you look it 2008 and 2009, the voting electorate in that state was so different. using a likely voter model from 2008 or 2009 for 2009? why a presidential year when candidate obama did a fantastic

job of making va matter and having dozens of offices there? he did not win the state for the republican -- for the democrat candidate for governor. i think it is important to be more open-minded and an inclusive on him might come out in 2010 and who might sit this one out. that is something -- who will that affect in 2010? you cannot be something with nobody. that is why candidate recruitment is significantly important. i don't believe in talking about beautiful -- immutable characteristics as being particularly portly, identity politics, particularly for conservative candidate spirit but we're starting to see an uptick in the number of women

who are running as conservatives each year. i think that is fantastic if they want to do it. and that is the big if. whether only 17 united states senators out of 100 who are female when women are 53% of the population and the voters. you have got to want to overcome a great deal and you have to really want -- you have to believe that politics is the best place for your energy, for your talent, for your resources, for your future. for many women, it's not the fire in the belly but the bile in the throne. if you have to swallow a lot to run, and i think a lot of those who step up and do that. but the pipeline has been weakened in diminished. even the center for american women in politics and a lot of other watchers of women running for office have noted that many women have stopped running for office at a tremendous clip,

even at a lower state legislative level. particularly young people watch 2008 on paper, and you can get excited on paper about a woman running for president or vice president, and in practice they are still waiting. the coverage on hairdos' and clothing rather than on -- what they were wearing instead of what they were saying. many times i hate to report, they were written by the note journalist. were mailed journalists who really should figure out the issues. why you covering what a woman is wearing rather than what she is saying when she is running for president or vice president of united states? who is that the problem then? .

>> do we have a back-up number for you? where do we find you? i may have missed that news story. it is not about double standards. it is about how ridiculous some of the courage is. i thought, god, i read your columns, i don't think you like children, and now you are worried about her children. i thought about getting upset about it. of course, you want to take the phone calls and be helpful.

i like a lot of these journalists and work with them routinely, but thought it was another equation where maybe they don't know anybody like that, they don't know anybody who has five children, they don't know anybody who has a supportive household, people who help all the while with five children and make the school lunches. but i quickly realized, the thirning to -- the thing to say there is the same thing i would say when someone would ask me as my belly has been out to here, they are thinking, hmmm, can she handle my work and that baby after that baby is born. well, guess what? like sarah palin, as far as i could tell, she doesn't have a boyfriend, so right there, she's got like 13 extra hours a week, i would think. the time you spend with them, the time you spent covering up that you weren't just spending

with them, the time you spent planning to be with them and cover up -- it is exhausting. i mean, apart from my moral objections, the logistics of adultery completely confound me. and as far as i can tell, she doesn't play golf. i don't either, so maybe i'm jealous. right there, again, that gives her like an extra 15 hours a week, i'm told. seven on saturday, six on sunday, because they go for drinks or whatever it is.t( that's like 5 1/2 extra hours per child or definitely three, so it is just a really light way of breaking down how ridiculous it can sound sometimes when people are asked that question. but even in the case of mrs. clinton, you know, having to put

herself in what i call the campaign uniform when she ran for senate, and elizabeth dole was running for senate. their husbands had run against each other four years earlier for the presidency, and is anyone in this room going to question the intelligence or credentials or bone fides of hillary clinton or elizabeth dole? yet they had to win back those column inches of coverage by sort of wearing the campaign uniform and the campaign uniform hair-do. i've often observed, i've never seen the stories about the bad comb-overs and paunchy beer bellies in congress, and there are many. the other thing going on in congress that i see being hospitable to folks who have run for office is, in large part, having president obama to thank for that. i think biography is important

to people. voters want to know who the person is behind the politician, and secondly, this whole idea that you have to sit in the corner and wait your turn or, you know, be next in line or have held certain offices along the way or paid your dues within the system has been up-ended. not just at the presidential level, because that's obvious, but at different levels, too. a 25-year-old was sworn in as a mayor in new jersey the other day, and i thought, ok, that guy was born in the same year that, like, suits in my closet were made. i admit i shouldn't have themñrn there. that's really jarring to think he wasñi born the year i was a senior in high school. i mean, when you put it all together, you realize that this whole credentialism and wait your turn and pay your dues in the system, i think it is a

great impetus for people who always skrd their contribution to be the 62nd voter. you know, i did the get-out-the-vote program, or i take my little ones in the polling place with me, so i'm doing my job. now is the time to do more than that, if you are so inclined but to get out there and actually throw your hat into the ring. i wanted to have time for questions, but before i do that, let me mention a couple other statistics i think are fantastic going into 2010 with no presidential race on the ballot. there are 34 republican members of the congress -- of congress that represent districts that president obama carried in 2008. there are 49 democratic members of congress that are districts that john mccain carried in 2008. so right away you start with 84 districts just by using that simple linear measurement.

83 districts, excuse me, that would seem to be in some kind of play. then there is a number you don't hear very often -- 25 congressional districts that are held by democrats who won in 2008 but they are districts that president obama won in 2008 but that president bush carried in 2000 and 2004. this is also why looking at voters in a linear prism, thinking about them in terms of, they always vote republican, they always vote democrat or they want to make history or they don't want to make history, it is relevantly naive and it discredits how people are making their decisions. if you open up anybody's hand bag right now you would find six different brands of the same kind of product. whether it was a vitamin, a prescription, or a beauty product. if i open a pantry i see all the

same kinds of products. we consumers are brand loyal but we aren't brand na ma nothing miscellaneous -- manogamous, and i think that is important to remember. two of the fastest growing groups are small-business owning women. we have so many entrepreneurial aspiring women who don't like the corporate scandal they have seen, they don't see the future in business america anymore because there are so many layoffs and regulations and taxes and uncertainty, and they also want some flexibility and some ownership of something to call, and they also have a great deal of confidence in their own talent and skill set, and there is access to capital, for many of them, access to talent and access to clients. so they are very important, and

they are up for grabs. see, unmarried women, unmarried women favored barack obama over john mccain by 41 points. unmarried women between the ages of 18 and 29 favor barack obama over john mccain because they are all renegades, pretty much. but they favored -- i think it is a cautionary tale to the conservative movement and the republican party because unmarried women are in their 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's. women are staying married by choice and through circumstance these days. you have many women unmarried, who are running their own businesses, who are getting their own degrees, who out in the workforce, who ared co-navigators for sm so many decisions for elderly parents and aunts and uncles and they don't have children of their own but they spoil the heck out of

everybody else's children. this is a huge growing contingencey within our population. many of them, we have to admit they are financially sophisticated. they are buying their own homes. they are availing themselves of the acutements -- acoutrements of society. they are not waiting for a we to become a me. this idea is short-sighted and naive, and it is a cautionary tale, and it is actually an invitation more than anything for us to recognize these demographic trends and what we can make of them. michelle mentioned, my colleague, a democratic pofrl -- pollster who was my co-author in that book, we were hoping men would think it was about sex and go out and buy it and then be disappointed it was written by

two pollsters, and i'm sure you could find the woodstock book these years later full price at the dollar store. but she and i were on a show, a "the washington post" reporter who has just written a book "notes from the cracked ceiling" about her time with governor sarah palin and hillary clinton last year. she said something at the end of the broadcast that was quite wise. she said she thinks the first female president will be a republican. i know many people believe that but it often doesn't get credit from the other side. the answers she gave are zpactly right. that republican -- are exactly right. that a republican woman who will come from another elected position, most likely, or from business, will be able to show -- these are my words -- business acumen, force, strengthfulness on military policy on foreign policy but at the same time in business and on

financial matters and yet still be able to show leadership and vision on what, unfortunately, having called, quote, women's issues like social security, health care, education, since they are everybody's issues i don't think they are women's issues, and i think women are smart enough to take care of the math and do the fiscal issues. i think it is a prophetic statement and there is wisdom in that. it also shows you why certain candidates for office who are women scare other people because they are actually worried that these people can ascend. if the people weren't a threat, they would just be ignored. the last time someone didn't bother me, i didn't bother with them. so if someone is a threat to your constituency and your philosophy and this world vision you have had, of course they are going to be attacked. that ladies and gentlemen, is no

reason not to run for office. i think it is a tremendous reason to run for office. the best thing i think anyone in this room or anyone watching who is so inclined can do in inviting and being more welcoming to be part of the women's network is simple. answer the question in seven seconds, in 70 seconds, in seven minutes and answer the question even when you are not asked the question, say is declaretively, ask the question -- why am i a conservative? not why am i a conservative woman, but why am i a conservative? if you start out the answer with well or but or the same kind of soft wincing eyebrow crooked eyebrow same concern that we get in those questions i mentioned earlier. just answer is forcefully. i bet the answers are as multitude nuss as there are people watching in this room. for some it is fiscal for others

it is moral for others it has to do with trep neuralship, for others it may be disconnected from politics all together. it may be the way i was raised. i was raised by four women -- i always say south jersey version of the golden girls. these four italian women raised me. i don't remember a single political conversation ever once. for some people, that's enough. those leading cultural indicators, those inferences of what they are doing every day in their lives. we have to convince people, when people say i hate politics, they don't mean that. politics is just a mean toward the end that they care about. to say i hate politics means you don't care which way health care legislation goes. it doesn't matter to you who is manning legislation policy or what's happening with the t.s.a. we know nobody means that. politics is just a means toward the ends that people care about.

for you to answer that question unpolicy jetcally, here is why -- unapologetically would be a boon to us. thank you very much. [applause] >> our political coverage continues now with a discussion on women in politics. from "washington journal" this is about 40 minutes. 3:25 on c-span. "washington journal" continues. host: we are talking with anne kornblut, her book, "notes from the cracked ceiling." >> thank you for having me. host: you say that this is a letdown and drove apart mothers and daughters and setback the

equality in the political sphere of decades, why? guest: there wasn't a bipartisan women's movement. and if you w'look what happene hillary clinton won a lot of women, and older women. but she split younger women. and when sarah palin was on the republican ticket, she was not able to bring over the democratic women or the independent women. so rather than being a ground swell of a women's movement, i look in the book that it splintered generationally across party lines. and elected officials, some who went for obama and some for clinton. host: when hillary clinton withdrew from the race. >> although we were not able to

shatter that ceiling this time, thanks to you it has about 18 million cracks from it. and the light is shining through like never before filling us all with the hope and the sure knowledge that the past will be a little easier next time. host: anne kornblut outside of giving you a title for a book, what did that mean for talking about clinton and others around the campaign? guest: it was the final speech, and by many reckoning her best, it was the first time in the campaign where she talked about gender in a specific way. if you think back 2007 and 2008 her answer would be, i am

not running because i am women. but that i am not running to be the first woman president. and it was talked about whether they should talk about the gender speech, and when president obama gave his landmark speech on race, she could not talk about it now. but that was the first time she tapped into what if she had won and been the first woman president. host: you write in the book that the casual approach was stunning, unlike the clinton's campaigns of the public would perceive a woman in high command, the mccain camp made a calculation based on gut

feelings. guest: you have to remember what was going on in the campaign, obama looked ahead and mccain looked who to pick, he wanted to pick joe lieberman where could there be obvious down sides. and he looked and saw this young, female governor in alaska, what they didn't think about in hindsight are some of the pitfalls that women candidates all over the country experience. one of the main ones is that they are scrutinized for their credentials and challenged if they are experienced enough to run. and that's what happened.

host: later sarah palin is speaking at the tea convention, what does that tell you? guest: that she is not going away, and it could be that she says she's got as good shot as host: she made a number of appearances including the oprah winfrey show. and the interview with katie couric. >> i have sources and alaska is not out of touch, believe me alaska is like the microcosim of america. >> obviously you read books and magazines, why didn't you name them? >> obviously i have, of course,

all my life, i am a lover of books and magazines. and by the time she asked that question, i was annoyed 7çnd it was unprofessional to name those. >> were you emotional? >> no, it was are you kidding me, and it was like she was undiscovering a nomaddic tribe, and asked me how are you paying attention to the world. i kind of rolled my eyes and thought this is the problem with the state of journalism today, no matter what i say, i will be twisted and perceived negative. host: anne kornblut, what was

happening in that campaign at that point? guest: she noted that the problems happened just weeks after she was picked. and she said she was annoyed with the question, and politicians get annoyed with questions. and the same was true in her debate preparation and getting ready for her interviews. other mccain aides who i interviewed said that she refused to prepare and built up resentment in the campaign. and many of those are still today, like the title of her book, "going rogue," that she had gone off the reservation and they made a mistake to pick her and she didn't understand

how to run. and she failed to understand not preparing for these interviews, any step she would have an added layer. she was young, and a woman, and these were new things and would have to answer what books and magazines she read and prove it, being a governor would not speak for itself. host: we will and twitter comments, it's twitter.com/c-span wg.4 p # by her conscious and not known and started to lose her bearings. guest: it was interesting she didn't have that many to provide that information, but a

few said that she came in confident and knowledge-wise and her ability to perform. and especially with the katie couric interview she started to lose that talent, being in the national glare, and ridiculed by criticism and even by tina fey that these would damage her. host: we have bob joining us. caller: good morning, you start the program out with leftist journalist, and you end with a leftist journalist. and i can prove this, and anything this woman would say about sarah palin, is not credible at all. these are msnbc hang-outs and

the first two guests were msnbc hang-outs. host: caller, i have to disagree. caller: well, i don't care what you have to do. "the new york times" present this gal, and how many books were o'reilly had and never reviewed. it's just a bunch of leftist garbage. host: so do you have a question for anne kornblut? caller: no, she's not qualified for a call. host: we have our next caller. caller: happy new year, i hate to follow that call. i want to give background and i am a strong supporter of

secretary of state, hillary clinton. you can tell in my voice i am rather passionate. and i am also educated. and i am also middle class in my work experience and my wealth. and i am also very much a supporter of civil rights. i was in fact for years a corporate recruiter working in affirmative action recruiting. so i don't want anyone to think that because i backed hillary clinton that i am racist vcñor a class of person that can't think for themselves. so let me just say back in the -- after the iowa primary we went to new hampshire. at that time a woman of strong

intelligence and skills was asked how did she do it all. how could she work as hard as she was working to try to win and try to do everything she was trying to do. and she was caught off guard, hillary was caught off guard by the question and her eyes watered and the whole world said she was a cryer. host: elizabeth, let me jump in because we have that moment. >> it's not easy. and i couldn't do it if i just didn't passionately believe it was the right thing to do. you know i have so many opportunities from this country, i just don't want to see us fall backwards. you know -- [applause]

you know this is very personal for me. it's not just political, it's not just public. i see what is happening. we have to reverse it. and some people think that elections are a game. they think it's like who is up, who is down. it's about our country, it's about our kids' futures. it's about all of us together. some of us put ourselves out there and do this against some pretty difficult odds. and we do it, each one of us because we care about our country. guest: that was one of the most compelling moments of the campaign. and the caller's point, there was a lot of people that rallied around the moment, where she did choke up, not cried. i am glad you referred to it, she didn't cry, she teared up.

the day before that was she was in a debate in new hampshire, and obama said it was about her likeability. and said she was likeable enough. he was joking and some women felt it was dismissive. in the choking up, there was a lot of media criticism that she was finished. and there was an uprising and many came from out of state, saying we won't stand for this. it was a moment when hillary clinton was a woman being dismissed and female voters wouldn't call for it. host: our next caller from virginia. caller: good morning, i have a question for your guest, it

seemed to me during the campaign and primary, the main difference between president obama and hillary clinton was his vote on the war effort, he voted against it and she voted for it. i wondered if she felt that played in her loss in the primaries. great question, and i would say absolutely it played into it. she had been thinking about running for president, many years, as far back as the barack obama war vote. and she thought and her advisors how she would be on national security. and not to say about her vote at that time, but that running as a democrat and a woman, she would have to demonstrate her toughness.

and it's hard to imagine how things could have been different and been against the war and not have given obama the opening to run. host: the book is called "notes from the cracked ceiling," with hillary clinton's non-dry moment as nonsincere, that i doubt. guest: she's not someone who enjoys showing weakness. i interviewed advisors after that moment, they thought it was over after that moment. their blackberry's going off at the moment. some of them that spoke to her afterwards, she said, i showed weakness, it's over, can i recover from this. but there was contrary that

"a," she wasn't weak but "b," she seemed real. host: also you say that with a twist, her good looks were problematic in their own right drawing attention but really was a liability. guest: it was so interesting, her attractiveness was what her appeal, and the hot vp buttons that many thought was fun.wa+ but quickly the nickname caribou barbie was taking off. in talking to strategists after the campaign was over, women that are attractive to the beauty queen level can suffer

in the mind of voters of perhaps not up for the job. in michigan when running for governor, female voters said she was too pretty to be governor. and they went back and re-shot her ads, and this was not how the clinton campaign, and then they combined her looks and then you wind up with a stereotype of a bimbo out shopping than preparing to be vice president. host: when and why did you

write this book? guest: i started thinking it in the campaign to see the woman, yes, there were two women that ran. but ultimately they were losing, clinton had lost and then the mccain campaign. and when they both did lose, we probably should exam what happened here, this is the first time that two women ran at this level. and there were many aspects that were gender related and when and if another woman runs down the road, we have a chance to see what is gender and something else. host: we will go to tony from florida on the republican line. caller: good morning, mrs. kornblut. most men in america did not

vote for hillary clinton even if they were democratic, republican or independent. because she's unlikeable and perceived to hanging on to her husband that was an adulterer and then you have sarah palin, and she's attractive. i think you are dead wrong that her attractability detracted from her capability to win. there are bright women that are capable, and you had a woman that was pro-life who thinks that abortion is killing babies. you had a woman who is 7!again homosexual marriages and you have a woman that was a born-again christian.

these are attributes that anyone that is male or female in america. it's really that hillary clinton is pro-abortion and for gays and lesbians. but you have sarah palin that has morals and value and beauty. guest: the caller makes two great points, attractiveness can be an asset, it doesn't have to be a negative. but it's usually among women in focus groups it's found that men are all for it, but it's female voters say that how çca she look so great and care for her job, i can't do it. it's not just sheer political terms, i am not saying that

being pretty makes her less intelligent. and the other good point you made caller, party does often trump gender. they have found that very rarely people who disagree on social issues like abortion cross over because of a woman on the ticket. it was never likely that the mccain campaign would pullover these. host: our conversation is with anne kornblut who writes for "the washington post" and before that worked for "the new york times" and "boston globe," her book called "notes from the cracked ceiling." we have robert joining us. caller: good morning, i agree with the gentleman that called

about hillary clinton who voted for the war in iraq and also her husband. and senator palin, i think she's honest and would be a good candidate for the republican party, and i think she would be a good candidate for them. for barack obama, i think that many americans are fighting not al-qaeda or the economy or the jobless situation, they are fighting barack obama because who he is. and they probably need someone who looks like them and i think they would be happier who is a republican. thank you. host: going back to robert's earlier point, do you think that sarah palin will run in 2012? guest: i am not going to try to

get inside of her head, but i think it's possible and i think she's got a base, it wouldn't surprise me at all. host: we have oscar joining us from tennessee. caller: good morning, i was listening to a couple of the most recent callers. the lady that mentioned from brentwood that mentioned the fact she didn't want to be considered a racist. being african-american who supported during the primaries, hillary clinton, i definitely would not, you know see anything against her support of hillary clinton. hillary clinton had a lot of african-american supporters. i don't think that would be an issue. but the one thing i want to ask the author, this whole phenomena of last callers pointing out that women can't

win, itnus doesn't look like as long as we have this notion that because of gender there is something wrong with their candidacy. there is going to be something wrong. and it's kind of disheartening because we are losing a lot of talent. a lot of committed individuals who happen to be woímo host: oscar, let me use your point and go back to what you included at the conclusion of your book. you quote secretary of state, hillary clinton, she appeared and said, i am not going to pretend that running for presidency is not daunting, it's difficult but there is a woman that will be able to achieve that. guest: she's been very cautious

not only as secretary of state, but before she ran, when she got the question, can a woman win. she said, we don't know until we try. the caller makes a good point there is something disheartening. before i covered the campaign, i thought of the challenges of women running. a lot of women in congress, and female house speaker and women on the supreme court. but when i did the research and looked at congress and looked at the numbers, i was surprised that it's less than one-fifth of women in congress. and some obstacles they faced. i too was disspirited in ways i didn't think i would be. host: one of those moments came

in the debate from congress women ferrell from new york and bush. >> let me help you, in iran, we were held by a foreign government. in leb anon -- lebanon we had this government. >> let me say i resent your attitude that you have to educate me. i have been in iran and have seen what has happened in the several months of your administration. secondly, please don't categorize my answers, leave the interpretation of my answers to the people watching this debate.

host: anne kornblut. guest: that's an example of what hillary clinton felt too, that she has credentials and can be tough. i had an interesting interview with geraldine ferrell, and she asked who her daughter had voted for, she voted for barack obama, and she went crazy where her daughter represented this split, where some voted for hillary clinton and others did not. host: we have john joining us on the republican line. caller: good morning, i have been listening to ms. kornblut

and she's called sarah palin a bimbo and gives hillary clinton the praise and says she's nonpartisan. the reason i think because you have the elites from the two coast, and then the center part of the nation. and sarah palin represented the common-day person. this is a person that was a mayor of a town and got involved in a governship because of her own work and what she had done.@@@@@@ @ @ >> i think she'll try.

when she anoupsed her vice presidentsy, the press sent up 40 lawyers to try to dig up every little thing. it will be insurmountable for her to overcome the press and the liberals on their attack on her. host: tom, to be fair about this, what's the difference between sarah palin who was thrust on the national stage or you go back to dan quale or back to 1984 and geraline ferarro. is there a difference? caller: not that much difference. it is a new person coming onto the scene. there was no old money behind her. this was an individual that didn't have any old money, old politics behind her that knew all the nuances -- which i'll use a word from new york -- that those people know the trick to the game.

>> i want to correct the caller. i absolutely am not calling sarah palin a bimbo. i made the point people called her that. i actually take a very sympathetic look at her in this book i've written. host: and as far as her being on the national stage from relative obscurity, you go back on the national stage, is there any difference between her and democrats or republicans? guest: former president bush was sitting there when the new was on, and he got the news and saw on the crawler screen who was picked. and just as surprised. and he said, she does not know what is about to hit her, and speaking from his own experience and his father's. and there was no one that could

have survived it easily, it was going to be tough no matter what. host: he remarked was she the governor of guam. guest: no, he didn't. host: i think that was another book. what surprised you from this book? guest: well for women to run, this surprised me. and we see this in obama as with hillary clinton. in looking at the campaign i was surprised that she reacted to one incident, about her daughter and there was a tv commentator who made a remark, that chelsea clinton was being pimped out.

the clinton campaign had heard so much, and when senator clinton heard about this, she was very upset in a telephone call. one saying she cried. but it was one incident fairly late in the campaign, that got her emotions started. and that was not something i expected. host: we have john joining us this morning. caller: hi, give me one second to get some perspective. i am a world war ii trooper, i jumped in normandy and jumped throughout, so i know what war is like. hillary clinton is not president today because she voted for the iraq war. she showed us what we have in

politicians today. all they care about getting reelected. she didn't care she was voting to see g.i.'s to iraq to die or maimed for life. she only cared about precluding the -zvrepublicans from attack her from being soft or terror or not voting on the war. and today this is why she's not president today and deserves not to be president. i was a supporter until that blatant cover-your-[beep] vote. guest: i would say that in every career there are those votes. i wouldn't get in her head about her emotions when she

voted to authorize the nñwar in iraq. i know from her advisors that she's naturally hawkish on defense. we saw in this most recent afghanistan review policy, she % was an advocate to send more troops when others were not. host: let me have you respond to this from your book, you palin, it wasn't that they just lost but in resounding devastating ways. their candidacies unleached strains of sexism that many thought were eradicated. guest: certainly, i thought they didn't exist and that we were past ridicule that they endured.

when they covered their campaigns, i didn't think you could cover clinton and palin and find anything in common. but in fact the response o)zto them, the level of response and the intensity of the response, that they were so polarizing. and i add if you look at the three most senior women in elected politics today, or the most visible. pelosi, clinton and palin, they are extremely polarizing. host: you wrote that they sold out to wall street, and let that stand. but she was good in campaigns. guest: she was with the president for eight years as

first lady, and that gave her the stature to run in new york. and part of her fund-raising network was the part that she and her husband had been a team. and a lot of voters, not just male voters but i heard from young female. we want someone who got there on their own, not through their husband. who didn't see her rise as part of her own attributes. and as the campaign went on and her husband made inflammatory remarks and he became a liability as well. host: our next caller. caller: good morning, steve. i would like to say a few things steve, and we will touch on women for sure. one as a non-hyphenated

american, i would love to see condoleezza rice run, i would like to see her run and she's pretty dark skinned. host: speak of condoleezza rise. guest: there are a lot of republicans that would like to see her run, i am doubtful because of how tough that is. and running for the presidency would be a huge leap. and she told me as she watched the campaign, she was not surprised to see obama pull ahead and win. she felt in this country we had crossed the bar on race, but on gender we still had pay --

still had a ways to go. and she said that it was tougher on her as a woman than african-american. but if i only had a quarter for said they wish that condoleezza rice would run. host: go ahead caller. caller: i was on the the war where they were waving the flags, and some were castrated in the media by the college kids. i want to say one thing about hillary clinton, when it comes to walter cronkite i think he's got the blood of kids on his hands. and now let's get to hillary clinton. i worked in the post office in the early 80's, and there was a big push of affirmative action. and these programs were to be

directed for male, blacks. to help keep the black families together and these male guys were at the post office and not able to percolate to the top. and in reality this is what happened, we had college girls come in and with six months of education, but they were called a minority -- host: we only have a minute left, do you have a question for anne kornblut? caller: i wanted to point out that i really -- host: are you still there? caller: yeah, i am here, what happened is all of these girls, the females were getting these jobs and the blacks were not getting the jobs. even though they had so much more experience. believe me when you bring in

inexperienced people, no matter how smart they are. it doesn't matter where, they are going to screw it up. host: thank you gary. guest: race versus gender, it's almost impossible to untangle. i will say that identity politics has been a big deal for many i]decades and will continue to be. host: one comment from our twitter page, if sarah palin wants to be considered relevant, shouldn't see be in an elected position? guest: i think that's going to be a question for her to run, last time it was about her credentials and now it's about her staying power. host: what will it take for a woman to win? guest: it will take the right women, if it's not sarah palin in 2012, then it will be quite

a ways off. >> tomorrow on "washington journal" a discussion on international and home-grown terrorism. also a look at same-sex marriage in the u.s. and worldwide with the forum on religion and public life. following that, william taylor talks about the role of afghan civilians and taking leadership. "washington journal" here on c-span. >> coming up next on c-span, it is "q & a" with michael scammell, and then prime minister's questions, the

japanese prime minister yukio hatoyama. >> the house is back in session tuesday january 12, live coverage on c-span. the senate returns january 20. they plan to consider a judicial nomination and an increase in the federal debt ceiling. watch live coverage of the senate on c-span2. off the floor, house and senate leaders are negotiating with the white house on the health care bill. the senate passed its bill christmas eve, but it does not include the public option. they have to agree on the same version before sending it to the president. the associated press reports the aim is to get a final bill to president obama's desk before the state of the union address sometime in early february. >> this week on "q &