department, it really is a wonderful icon of the american people and i am very, very proud to be your secretary of interior and look forward to working with all of you in the year ahead. thank you very much. . .

at 9:00 a.m. eastern. speakers include journalist marvin, senior white house correspondent edward henry and the one who started students for barack obama on facebook in 2006. according to the brookings institution, nearly 3/4 of the population in the gaza strip is under 29 years old. a live forum for young palestinians live investigate gaza strip. including democratic representative keith ellison. >> this weekend on book tv, marine corps university professor mark mier on winning counterinsurgence as i wars and children's book author and illustrator on going up in communist czechoslovakia.

on c-span 2. for the complete schedule, go to book tv.org. >> now a debate for the candidates for the fom nation for texas governor, we'll hear from rick perry, kay bailey hutchison and debra medina. this debate held in the dallas suburb of denton, texas is an hour. >> good evening and welcome. this is the first time all republican candidates for governor will debate. we're airing live throughout texas on television, radio and online. i'm kera news director shelly kaufler, and i will be the moderator for this debate. we have asked the audience to hold the applause put right now put your hands together. you're invited to welcome our candidates.

[applause] >> our candidates are. >> our candidates are, senator kay bailey hutchison. senator hutchison is 66 years old and grew up near houston. debra medina former republican county chair and rick perry, he's been governor since 2000 and a former -- a native of paint creek near abilene. for the next hour i'll be joined in questioning the candidates by marie renee a reporter with kvun channel 23 in dallas and dave montgomery a

chief for the "fort worth star-telegram." and doug in the audience with more now about this debate. doug? >> shelly, depeeng and depeeng to all of you watching statewide. the format, all three candidates agreed to keep answers to one minute and respond to anticipated follow-up. if there's eliminating difference it is moderator may allow for additional discussion and each candidate will have the opportunity to ask each opponent a question and i'll out here fielding questions from the audience and social media as our time permits. shelly back to you to get the debate underway. >> our first question goes to all of the candidates tonight and the order of answer is based on a drawing, so governor perry first, senator hutchison second and ms. medina third. here's the question, all of you have been -- of the federal

government or current administration in washington. governor perry and medina in splar have said they understand why some texans may be interested in su seeding from the united states. we want to know how far would you go to break ties in washington. name one federal program you really like and tell us whether you would push to end or -- any specific program or loss, governor perry? >> the program i love the most that the federal government is involved with is our united states military forces. there is not anything i would do except make sure we take care of those veterans when they come back from spending time looking after our freedom, but that's the greatest program the united states government has. i always say there's three things the government ought to do well, deliver our mail, stand military and defend our

borders. i guess one out of three ain't bad. >> well, governor, you've also been critical. and there's a word going around the campaign circle, nullification. tell us, would you opt to nullify or end any specific program or federal program we are now involved with here in texas? >> i was talking on a radio program this morning and got asked that question, i said here's the real issue. health care is a real example put we ought to be working every day and spending every waking hour that we can pushing washington back on this explaining to people just how bad nationalized health care will be. how much lit cost this country and how poor our health care will be. that was a the real job we need to be doing instead of talk about what ifs or what if this or that happens, i think that's a waste of time that the particular point in time. we have heard that it is hanging by a lead the.

by a thread. i hope our senator will get back to washington, d.c. and cut that thread. that's where she needs to be. >> is there any current program in place that you would nullify or end? >> not a current program and again i get back to what i said earlier is that we need to be working to stop these programs before they ever get to the point where we're even talking about the point of nullification. >> you've been critical of the stimulus package yet we have $12 million in our state bum et that come from stimulus packages. >> i wish we didn't spend that i would be happy, the gasoline tax, if we just kept it in the state of texas and built roads with it instead of sending it to washington, d.c. and sending us 70 cents back on the dollar

for road construction. but the fact is we send billions of dollars in income taxes and what have you. and when it comes back without strings attached. >> thank you, governor. >> senator hutchison, the same question, please. >> you've been part of congress. so you're very familiar with washington. can you name the federal program you like most and then tell us, if you would whether you would push to end or nullify any specific federal program. >> first of all, it is our military that is my favorite program. and i serve on the military committee, and have been chairman and now ranking member of our military construction and veterans affairs. i think our military does a great job, and that is the key thing we ought to be doing right in congress. but i do want to say, shelly, that yes, i have been in congress. i am fighting against the government takeover of health

care. i am fighting depens the government encroachment in so many parts of our lives. fighting against new tax increases on energy. i -- this cap and trade bill that's coming after health care reform is a terrible encroachment. do i want to differ with the governor in one respect, that is in highway funding. when i came to the united states senate we did get 76 cents back for every dollar we stonet washington. i fought hard with our congressional delegation to get that up to 92 cents, and we do have 92 cents return. it's not 70 cents and the tex dot that the governor controls has it on their website that it is a 92% return and i'm glad to know he's supporting the bill i introduce that had would give us 100%. we should be able to opt out of the highway trust fund. >> reality isn't it true there would be a vote to take texas

out of that sunday in >> that's right but we've got to start thinking differently and taking the first step. and the first step is to introduce the legislation that says why do we need a highway trust fund now? the purpose of the highway trust fund was to build a national highway system for national security. that system has been built out. why should wen send eight cents of our dollars to over states in i don't want to do that. that's why i'm introduceing this legislation because we need to start talking about it and other states warrant to do the same thing but when i came to congress it was 72 cents and a lot of labor orb my foort bet it to 92 cents and for him to say 70 is absolutely wrong, and i think he knows that. >> thank you. any government program? >> support for acorn. we have been supporting acorn not knowing some of the activities they were doing that

were really stopping the free voting that we have in our country. so yes. and the government encroachment that we are seeing in this administration is scaring people to death. >> thank you, very much. ms. medina, same question, any federal program that you like and which one would you nullify? >> shelly, before i answer that question i have to say thank you to all of texas for making sure that we had a voice on this stage tonight. when pan average citizen can sit with a senator and a governor, it shows that this still is a government of the people and by the people. you know both have commented that we ought to be proud of our military, and we certainly all would salute the men and women who have served us in that regard. but i'm not sure that we can flawed federal government for taking care of you are our u.s. military and saying that's a job they've done well.

we've let the veterans down time and again in providing equipment and needs on the battlefield and then we don't take care of them when they come home so i'm hard pressed to say there's anything washington is doing well. >> the question really is though is there any federal program you like? because i think you have done interviews in which you've said about the only federal responsibility that you are supporting is their ability to make treaties. >> correct. u.s. constitution article one, section eight define what the u.s. government ought to be doing and i would maintain that they are not doing anything that they ought to be doing well. are there things they should nullify? yes. we should nullify the nationalization of our health care and in texas we have to be concerned about the e.p.a. it ought to be runing a close second on the heels of health care. get environmental protection

agency out of our energy and texas and let texas take care of texas energy and pricers and we'll see tremendous progress in this tate. our next question comes from our audience and listeners and viewers. doug? >> we're going social media tonight and we had a question on facebook. this is from sharey wilkins a mother, unemployed and lives in arlington right now. her husband is a construction worker and she fears she's about to lose her unemployment benefits because of the limits. her question is simple. what do you manner to do with unemployment? >> ms. medina. >> thank you, sharey for calling in tonight and participating in this debate. the governor and the senator are both going to offer big government solutions. we texans understand that our free society rests on three pillers.

individuals and family, communities and churches and the government. we must do things to get the government off of the back of the people so that we can once again learn to care for one another. when we do that, when we get washington and the e.p.a. out of ag and energy. when we restore true private property ownership and eliminate private property tax that alone adds $3 fwol net personal income in texas and 150,000 new jobs. those are real jobs, real economic activity that will help people like sharey and their family. >> ms. medina, thank you. >> governor we were at 4% now at 8% under your tenure as governor of the great state of texas. what's your plan? >> nobody gets confused this is the best state in the nation to be living in. we were in frisco for an event and a man came up to me and said i've lost my job but he said i will tell you that there

is no other state in america i would rather be living in with having lost this job in texas, because i know that the programs that you all have put in place, i'll be able to find that job very soon. and that's the type of can-do spirit that you see in the state of texas. we lead the nation in the production -- in the development of jobs. while america was losing 3 million jobs because of the washington type of spend it all, spend it now approach. texas was gaining almost 100,000 jobs. just this last november, and october. we created jobs in the state of texas. that's what people want to see. low taxes, a regulatory climate that's fair and a school workforce. they picked texas as the number three place in america for small businesses. that came out two days ago. creating that environment for people to have a job.

single most important thing a governor will do. >> governor, and by the way 100,000 jobs you said you create under your administration but we lost well beyond that amount, correct? >> no, sir. we created more jobs from november of 2007 to november of 2008. texas created more jobs than the rest of the country combined. that's a fact. >> texas did not lose more than 100,000 jobs, is that what you're saying? >> no, sir. i'm saying we created more jobs. i don't know how to explain it to you. >> governor, you're using the numbers from 2007 to 2008. let's talk twipe. >> in 2009 we're creating jobs in october and november there was not a state in the nation, name me one state in the nation that were creating jobs. it really wears me out that we got two people on the stage that want to tear texas down

when the fact is everybody understands this is the state you want to live in.ñi we want to come here. this state is growing by 1,000 people a day and not because we're overtaxing or overregulating or overlitigating them. they come here because they know this is the place of opportunity. >> with the way we can create jobs for the woman in arling on the is to thorough burden on business so that business will hire people. governor perry has increased taxes on business. the business tax and unemployment tax has increaseed the burden on business and that means business is going to hunker down and not hire people. what we need is an education system that trains our young people so that they will get the good jobs of the future, and when 30% of our young people are not graduating from high school, that is not a state that's going to create the good jobs of the future. yes texas is the best state in

america. it is not going to be the best state that creates jobs in the future if we don't thorough burden on business and oh, by the way we definitely lost more jobs than we gained. we lost 300,000 jobs in texas alone this year. that is not a record to be proud of. our unemployment vate higher than every state in the surrounding area. so i think the governor talks about how good things are and texas is the greatest state in america. but if we don't deal with the problems in this state, we are not going to remain the best state in america and hiding from it is not the way to make it better. >> thank you, senator. we are going to move on but as we move through the night if you want to talk about what we can do to create jobs we can do that andxd cut taxes. >> cut business expenses.çó fur adding business expenses as the governor is, to our

businesses in texas, they are not going to create jobs. lowering taxes at the federal level -- >> thank you, ms. medina? >> i just think it's important to point out we have lost jobs in the private sector. all those jobs the governor is talking about have come in the sector. that's not prosperity that's a greater burden for the businesses in this state and hard-working individuals hl this state to carry. we've added 14,000 jobs in the government sector and lost -- i'm sorry lost 14,000 in the private sector and added 166,000 in the public sector. in the government sector. >> we're going to move on to the next set of questions. >> hold on just a second. i'd like to respond to that. >> ok. let's tell you what. >> i'd like to respond to that because no governor has cut more than we have. we cut property taxes by 1/3. people are not moving to the state of texas and coming and

this state is not growing by 1,000 people a day because they are overtaxed. the texas association business didn't stand up with me when we were doing our tax burden, senator, because they saw the opportunity to cut taxes, make them more fair. our taxs are fair, lower and broader than they ever were. >> "the dallas morning news" alone said -- >> i hope you're not using the dallas morning news to as your opportunity -- >> the largest tax increase we have ever had in our state yours. it is the business tax you signed, governor. >> you're talking apples to oranges. and when the texas association of business stands up with you and says this is the structure that we want our taxes, senator, that tells me something. you can talk it all you want about it's a big -- >> it's a fact. >> that is not a fact. >> and you were supposed to

have lowered property taxes and you didn't. >> 1/3. >> you did not. >> let's move on an this. >> you knew you could not control appraisals. >> let's move on. we'll have more opportunity talk about taxes. >> ornlse, i hope so. >> we also have some questions that are candidate-specific and dave has the first question for senator hutchison. could you clarify your position on abortion tonight? specifically, do you believe that row verses wade should enforced or bereversed as the republican party advocates in its platform. >> let me say my position has always come in favor of life. parental -- more parental consents. i have promoted adoption. and if i am governor of texas,

i will do everything i can to limit -- lower the number of abortions in this state and promote adoption. we don't want unwanted pregnancies. that's not good for anyone. talking about the supreme court of the land, we have had restrictions on abortion that have become the law of the land. and i think that's good. i don't want abortion havens. i don't want to have freedom so that some states would allow partial birth abortions and there are some states that have said they would want to have partial birth abortions so yes, that scares me. >> but still your position on abortion has given some discomfort to some activists in your party who take a strong position on reversing row versus wade. do you think that should remain in effect? >> what concerns me about that is that we would then have some

states that would allow abortions as the baby is coming out of the birth canal. i don't want that to be in any state in our country. and that is the reason i have state that had position. >> so you would not support the overturning of roe v. wade? >> what i'm saying is if it is overturned you're going to have abortion havens. >> is there a yes or no to this? >> look, i'm just telling you why i'm concerned about having it overturned and then have abortion havens. >> are you saying if it's overturned it will lead to black market abortions? >> legal abortions. that's what concerns me. i think you are looking at a restrictions that are quite reasonable that are the law of the land. >> so keep row versus wade on the books? >> well, i think you have to

look at what happens as if it goes away then every state is allowed to do whatever its state legislature passes and we know there are states that would allow abortions under any circumstances which means partial birth abortions. >> thank you senator. the next question is from marie renee. her question to ms. medina. >> you have indicated you oppose laws that limit the right to bear arms. and you carry a gulp in your car and don't have a con sealed license but in texas you don't have to have one. given how you feel is there any restriction on who can carry a we were and what type and where? >> i think again, renee, here is a classic example between someone who understands a

constitutional republic, understands the u.s. constitution, and the that both the senator and governor will give. we've had too many tragedies to count in recent memory in america. we've had columbine, virginia tech, 9/11, fort hood. every time we have that sort of tragedy, the big government answer is to dearm the people. and yet our founders understood the importance of gun ownership as an essential element of freedom. private property ownership and gun ownership, the two things essential to a free society. if we want to talk about safety, security and freedom in texas, we ought to be eliminating gun registration. we recognize that gun registration has been used throughout history for one thing only and that is gun so yes, i am a strongñi advocat

for the right to keep and bear arms. >> but where would you draw the line or limits? you said the private sector should be as or better armed than the government. to avoid tinery. >> correct. correct. >> so where do you draw the limit? >> those powers not del investigated to the united states government are reserved for the people in the state so it is up to the texas of the up state legislature and people of this state to set gunñi ownersh and we'veñi made every other law-abiding citizen to these and prohibited them from we cannot deny man the right to life, liberty and property. we must restore true gun ownership in texas.çóçó >> do you take your handgun into grocery stores? >> i do not. >> i observe the law.

i do not take my handgun into grocery stores. >> just wanted to check. >> i'd like to but i don't. >> thank you. next question for governor perry. i have that honor. governor the farm bureau says the gigñi -- biggest reason it opposing youçóñr is eminent dom 2007 you vetoed legislation that would have compensated property openers for the value of their land or business drops because of a new roadway or project that cut off access. some people feel they lost their shirt over this and that it hasn't been share. explain to the landowners of texas why they shouldn't be upset with you. >> well, having been the only candidate here that really has a rural background and grew up an farm and spent the bigger part of my time on a farm, that's certainly, knowing what's going on in rural texas, i know that. the problem with that piece of

legislation wasn't that i'm not a proponent of eminent domain, in fact we pass ad sweeping eminent domain bill that was passed by the people of the state of texas this past fall, the individual who was the originalinator, if you will, of that key location, the lady that lost her home was down with us so we got strong support all across the country and state on them innocent domain issue but the reason that piece of legislation got vetoed was because it was going expand the concept of the legal side of being able to come in and sue and it was another cottage industry for the personal injury trial lawyers. >> the landowners who had to hire the attorneys and pay for them out of their pockets felt like they were the ones footing the bill. they felt like they were ones

wronged. >> our state went through a rather vigous debate about the affirmative louse lawsuits in this state. as a matter of fact we took it to the people defending doctors and medical professionals and defending small businesses and it was passed overwhelmingly in the legislature and passed in a constitutional amendment. so i think the people of the state of texas understand that the last thing we want to do is turn back the clock on the gains we made on legal reform in this state. one of the reasons we're such a good place for people to live and such a job-creating state is because people know they can come here and not be affirmative lousely sued. as long as i'm governor and pieces of legislation come back to me that can back the clock on tort reform you can bet they are going to meet my veto pen. >> if -- >> frankly we've already sign ad bill that does basically

that and -- law of the land in our constitution. >> we now have the opportunity to have candidates asking the other candor dags questions. we've drawn for this as well and governor mary gets to ask his first question of up with of his two opponents. governor perry. >> i know that the senator has had some issues with consistency, as a matter of fact i heard one here a while ago when we talked about that you were, you know, you voted to continue roe v. wade as a matter of fact you got some rather nice accolades from a pro choice group for your support on a band on partial birth abortions. but the consistency issue is one i'm having trouble with, senator. and you told the people of the state of texas that you were not going to vote for the bailout and in september of 2007 you stood in front of

texas and said i'm not going to vote for the bailout then went to washington, d.c. and voted for it. then you came back and said you know a month later said that was probably a bad vote. and then a couple months after that, you voted $20 billion to bail out the automobile industry. >> let's get to the question. >> that is question. what just address that $20 billion to the automobile industry. and all those bailouts. >> well, first of all, let me say, governor, that when president bush came to our united states senate and talked to senator cornyn and me about the global meltdown of the financial market ins our country, when people were losing jobs and people couldn't get loans for their businesses, he asked usw3 to help shore up the financial institution. he hated to do that andçó we

hated to make that vote, but we did vote to assure that our financial institutions would be shorten up. i will have to shorne up. now i told you i never said i would not vote for the bailout i said i would never give $700 billion for anything. we split it in half and to see if we would like the way it was going to work and we didn't like it so there was never another vote. so when i said i didn't like what happened after wards it's because i didn't like what happened afterwards but i will tell you this governor perry you are the one who is disengeneral use because you wrote a letter to congress saying pass this bill and the governor's association supported it. it took a lot of leadership to do something that would be right for our country, and governor you asked for it, too.

you were for it before you were against it. >> can i respond to it? >> general who was the west virginia governor did write a letter to you and we thought you all were smart enough to understand what we were talking about. >> governor that's not what the letter said. >> i wish we would have made it a little clearer for you then. >> i'm sure we just -- that's how we got our economy like it is. >> governor, let me just tell you something, you wrote a letter that said we need to do it now. the only bill that was before us was the one that was before us so i think you're trying to have it both ways. >> i'm trying to take a look at the record. >> thank you governor. let's move on and give ms. medina the opportunity ask a question. >> i think texas is ready -- >> you need to pose a question to --

>> texas needs leadership and this squabling isn't getting us anywhere. governor you were a republican having worked for al gore and you've broken promises on education. securing our border. and property tax reform. you failed to thereon texans on issues like the transtexas quarter. what evidence can you give we, texans that you'll keep your word this time around? >> ms. medina i made the same decision ronald reagan made back in his life that the republican party was the party i wanted to be associated with. and i'm demad i did and i'm glad he did and i'm glad to be a part of the party that ronald reagan came to. from the standpoint of putting our promises in place i promised i would do everything i could to make this state a place where people were proud to live and i think we've done that. when you look at what we've created takeover last eight years and walking into a budget

deficit of $10 million in 2003, cutting that budget and the tort reform we passed i will tell you doctors all across this state are really proud of what we've been able to do. >> thank you governor. >> people are proud to work and live -- >> can i respond? >> briefly. >> you talk about the great economic state that we're in. but the reality is texas own consolidated financial report shows under your leadership our debts tripled and per cap tae taxation has gone up 49%. that's painting a rosy picture that doesn't exist. texans are suffering because texas is marching right down the same path california did. if we don't change our course we're going to find ourses there. >> thank you. senator hutchison. >> thank you. ms. medina, governor perry promise that had property taxes would be cut by 1/3, he said it

tonight, and yet i go around to my town hall meetings and the people i'm meeting with throughout texas and i say raise your hand if your property taxes have gone down and i've never seen a raise hand yet and i'm just wondering what your experience has been what do you think is the property tax truth in texas today and what are people saying when you go to your meetings that you have done all over texas? >> i think we're hear that we have a $16 billion holcombing in texas in 2011 as a result of unfull filled promises on property. the answer is not more property tax reform the answer is elimination of property tax in texas. texas will benefit from a broad-based sales tax to fund the essential elements of government service rpgs and we will see a $3 billion increase in net perm income and add 150,000 jobs. this discussion about property

tax reform that the governor has championed is a diversion. restore true private property ownership in texas. eliminate property tax and use the sales tax to fund government service. >> thank you. let's go now to doug dunbar who is here with another one of the audience questions. >> lauren lutz currently attending johns hopkins university. >> tell us what your question is for the candidates? >> the texas advanced direct is act gives the panel the power to discontinue life-giving care if the patient is not able to transfer to another facility within 10 days of being able to notify panel's decision these panels have come to -- able to request care and who are able to pay. so keeping in mind that texas is the only state with such a law, what changes would you support being made to the texas advanced -- act? >> and we will begin with senator hutchison.

>> to be honest with you i have not heard that we had an act such as that. i think it is -- i would be very concerned about pulling the plug on a patient that did not have the right and a family and/or some protection against this being done indiscriminately. >> governor perry? >> i always stand by the side of life. and in this case it's no different. you do everything you can to keep those patients alive. and certainly working with the physician that is are there, if they don't have a, you stand by life in this state. >> so would you make an effort to reappeal it? >> absolutely, if that is in case what we're seeing in texas today. absolutely. >> ms. medina? >> i'm a registered nurse. i've been at the bedside of patients affected by the

advanced directives act and i know the grieving that families go through. of giving lip service to pro life issues but has done little to reverse abortion in texas and he's done nothing, nine years if you were going to reappeal the act, why haven't you? it's been there. we have been denying care. we have been pulling patients off of vent later when they and their families didn't want that to happen because the law in texas allows it. texans deserve pro life support. government's job is to ensure justice and protect innocent life. there's none more innocent than the unborn babe or frail, injured and dying. >> thank you. >> governor perry, the bill was signed into law when you were currently lieutenant governor, were you opposed to it then? >> i wasn't aware of it. >> ok. >> shelly?

>> thank you. we are now going to engage in another round of candidate-to-candidate questions and ms. medina has the first question. >> senator hutchison, the u.s. constitution is roughly six page ins length . and yet we've seen at the federal legislatively failure to be bound by the chains that it places on our government. in fairness, you alone aren't guilty of that. we've got a whole federal government that has gone way beyond its bounds, but the texas constitution is 350 pages long. what evidence and assurance can you give texas that you'll be bound by our constitution? >> well, first of all, it's wonderful that the federal constitution is so short. because it is -- the shortness is that whatever is not reserved to the federal government is left to the i share your concern and the

governor's frank lyrics that we have -- and the governor's, frankly, that we have gone way beyond what the founders intended with the federal government continuing to encroach and mandate on state governments. i have fought at every turn. when i could so many of us stood up and said why are we mandating. unfunded mandatory dates are among the worst thing congress does. certainly i will abide by the state constitution. it is law of our state, and i respect that. but i vigorously agree with everyone on this stage, i think, that what we need to do is remind the congress and the federal government that they should not encroach on state's trts way they do, and i have been consistent in that throughout my term in the united states senate. >> thank you. senator hutchison, it's now your turn to ask the question.

>> i would ask of governor perry, you're run ang ad that says you have cut taxes on business in texas but in fact you have increased tax on business in taxes. every employer in texas is going to pay higher unemployment taxes and the business margin tax you cut it for two years to get through the election season and it's going to come back. a few small businesses got that release, but in fact you have permanently increased taxes on our businesses. that is not sk. how can you say in your ad that you have cut taxes in business and lowered the growth of government in texas when it has increased 80% during your term? >> senator, i know the truth somehow hard to recognize when you've been in washington for 16 years, but testimony fact of the matter is we have the lowest tax or second lowest tax

burried engine america in this state. and that's the fact. we lowered the business tax from 4% to 1%. it is lower and flatter and fairer than it's ever been before. we have a state that is growing. people are moving here. people understand that texas is the land of opportunity. we were chosen as the number three state by the -- for entrepreneurs this year. only two smaller states in front of us. big states are draining. people are leaving their states to come here. they wouldn't be coming to texas, senator, if it was the place you've been trying to paint it over the last six months or so. >> governor, there you go again. if you keep adding the burdens on business and acting like it was a tax cut, how can people believe anything the going to be different in the next four we cannot continue to increase the size of government which

you have, increase the debt, which ms. medinapointed out, peace the taxes and say it's a cut and say you're going to lower property taxes but you know you can't control appraise it's and therefore you know property taxes have not gone down. i just want to ask you how you can run an ad that says exactly the opposite of the truth and expect texans to believe things are going to be different with your term after 10 years asking for 14. >> governor, do you want to answer? >> is it my time to ask a question now? >> i thought so. senator, you know, speaking of kind of telling the truth and getting the consistency thing down, are you going to resign from the united states senate? >> governor, i think you're supposed to pose your question to ms. medina. >> oh, i'm sorry. >> i'm not going to resign from

the united states senate. >> but i will. >> ms. medina, in a question that i was asking a little bit earlier. 23409 that i'd asked a little bit earlier but thought about a little bit earlier. you have said that or last to you said you'd consider legalizing demrugs texas, and i'd like for you to expound on that for the audience tonight. >> i have said that that is a power that ought to be reserved for the people in the state not something the federal government ought to be doing. we have certainly seen at the federal and state level a tremendous amount of resources poured into a drug war with little effect. i had the opportunity to ride with the dallas city police officer 11:00 p.m. to 2:00 a.m. he said 95% of what he does is drug-related crime. we are spending a tremendous

amount of resources, frankly that we don't have in a way that's ineffective. we've got to get beyond this emotional debate and look at objective outcomes and results. texas has got to be courageous enough to have this discussion and under a debra medina governorship, we will. >> yes, whoever is governor is going to confront a huge budget mess right at the start of the term. sales tax revenue has plummeted and lawmakers are going to be facing a short fall possibly of up to $17 billion when they meet again in january of 2011. just how are you going to deal with that? what services are you going to have to cut and will a tax increase be nethible? >> i believe this goes first to ms. medina. >> the new kid gets the

toughest question of the night. i have talked about the importance of restoring true private property ownership in texas not because it is a fessical issue but because it's a freedom issue. funny thing about freedom is it marches hand in hand with prosperity. when we eliminate private property tax and fund our government with a broad-based sales tax we'll see a increase in net income and 150,000 new jobs added to the texas economy in the first year. we've got to look at transparency, efficiency and accountability in all areas of state government. we have seen slop if you will, sloppyal management in youth management and criminal justice in the texas department of transportation where they misplaced $1 billion. there are lots of opportunities to look for accountability and transparency in government

before we start holding heroes tg texas taxpayer for more money. they have had to tighten their belt answered we have had to tighten our belts and the government must do the same thing. >> what do you say to those who say a sales tax puts a burden on the underprivileged and low income? >> when you structure that sales tax similar to a way texas has today where we except medicine and food, that is the least burdensome tax to the society, the least burdensome tax to the economy. certainly do not need to have the business margins tax which is an income tax in texas and ought not have a property tax in texas. >> for senator hutchison? >> yes. first of all, i have balanced a budget. i have run a small business. i have known what it is like to have to cut expenses minority in order to make a profit, and i think that's the best

experience i've had for tpwhg public office. it is a $17 billion deficit that we're going in with. part of the reason for that is because the governor decided to take stimulus money and spent $4 billion of it in recurring expenses. so that's going to have to be made up. that's according to the legislative budget board, itself. so the way we're going to have cut is across the board. and i think lieutenant governor duh hurst did a good thing last week and i support it, start the cuts now. we should start cutting across the board now in our state agencies. we have over 300 state agencies. 45 of those agencies are related to health care. i'm just wondering if we couldn't consolidate some of those. text dot lost $100,000 in an

accounting error. i think we have to look at waste and do a scrubbing of our budget which has not been done in the last 10 years to see where we ought to be spending money and where we shouldn't. >> where should they be consolidated? >> there are 45 that have -- >> quickly, we're running out of tile. >> and i think we ought to look at those to see where you can look at the ones that would be similar together and cut the bureaucratic costs and commissions cost. >> governor perry? cuting the budget. >> we've already done this. 2003 we came in $10 billion budget deficit. i've got the executive leadership already under belt of having done that. i think it is a, you know, it's interesting that you would bring david duh hurst up. he's been a partner of us in the legislature, and every criticism you're laying out

there you're laying on david duh hurst. you're laying on republicans who have made hard decisions and i think it's pretty rich for an individual who voted 95% of the time for every budget that came before you, you raised the debt limit nine times in washington, d.c. and to stand here in frornt of the people of the state of texas and say trust me, i'm going to balance theçó budgetñi is -- >> can i respond? >> of course. >> first of all, let me say, you, governor, is the one criticizing republican members of congress and senators like senator cornyn and myself when we are fighting the takeover of our health system and cap and encroachment and you are lumping republicans with the democrats that are doing this, and number two, i am not criticizing governor duh herself, i'm criticizing the leadership at the top. the buck stops at your desk. you have not provideed the leadership to the legislature and you are presiding over a

budget that's getting ready to go into a $17 billion deficit. >> and we will cut it like we did in 2003. we have the experience. >> we're going to maria. >> the question is on illegal immigration. trying to tack the issues citing lack of control at state and federal levels. some have even tried to ban apartments. what would you support at the state level to control and deal with the population already living in texas and would consider limiting or cutting services -- >> if i can ask each of you to very preefl answer, 30 seconds. >> let me just say the state of texas does not even use the e. verify system to determine if someone is legally in our country when they apply for a job, if i'm governor of texas we will.

we use e verify, it's the easiest, simple lest and simple lest way to figure out if someone is legal in our country and texas should lead the way. >> senator you voted for sanctuary cities that's wrong. >> i think we should -- we should fine anyone who supports it and here's an i will three work in this state, that is one of the quickest ways to stop illegals from coming into texas and washington, d.c. has done an abysmal job of securing op board erds. >> thank you governor perry, ms. medina. >> both the governor and senator continue to give lip service to a problem that is plaguing texas. it's hurting all of us. immigrant and citizen alike. we must get serious about illegal i mean depration, deploy the texas military force to the board tore assist sheriffs and local law enforcement.

and we must stand up against washington, d.c. a primary reason for the rising health care costs. >> thank you. >> is impala a federal legislation we need to stop those incentives. >> boy i wish we had more time for all of this but we are at the end of our debate portion and now have time for closing statements. we've drawn for these as well and ms. medina, you go first. >> many of you had to work very hard to ensure that we had a voice on this stage tonight. i hope you can tell my -- by my answers that i would lead us along the path less traveled difference for texas. we have a real opportunity here to restore true private property ownership and gun ownership in texas so that those pillers and freedom and prosperity are restored in our state. we will restore the sovereignty

in our state. there are none above texas except article one section eight special delegates to the united states texas must stand strong and defend her sovereignty. texas will decide about health care and energy and agriculture. and we must address illegal immigration so that we have a healthy immigration process, one that draws people to our shorse, shores but one that respects the private property rights of landowners? n texas. i look forward to leading texas. join us. vote debra medina in march. thank you. >> thank you ms. medina and governor perry your closing statement. >> i want is to say thank you for allowingtous participate and to my colleagues, thank you. and to each of you who have come out today. it's been a great opportunity to exchange ideas and i hope none of us ever forget that the

reason we have those opportunities to exchange these ideas freely is because there's young men and women half way around the world that are defending those freedoms an as a matter of fact i talked to sergeant the one who stopped terrorist at fort hood, she had a knee operation today and i thanked her today for her service. it's people like that that allow us to get up every day and enjoy the wonderful freedoms that we have. and the simple truth is we have people without work in texas and we have to work every day to make sure every texan who want as job has a job but the err simple truth is texas is the land of opportunity. you look across the country and you know that. you see as the people move here that there is something special going on in texas. the question gets asked why is texas finding itself in this unique place compared to the other states? it's paws we have made disciplined decisions, physical, conservative decisions over the course of

the last 6-8 years that has put texas on the course where it is today. we have challenges in front of us. with that many people showing up in texas every day whether it's transportation infrastructure or electricity, our water, we have to have a real vision to put into place. i hope takeover course of the last 6-8 years you've seen that leadership out of me, and i ask you for your vote. thank you. >> senator hutchison? >> texas is the best place in america. i'm running for governor because i want to make sure that we are the best place in america 20 years from now, and i don't think governor perry has prepared our state for the future. in education, it's not a success when you lose 30% of the young people who enter high school to drop outs that's not right. i will change it as governor. transportation, the leadership at text dot is the most arrogant in our state's history. the people that work at tex

dot, they are great but they -- border security, we can do something at the state level for state security and it's not just talk about it. it's actually doing the things that are available. we need protect vivet property rights, governor perry vetoed the bill that would really do that. we need ethics reform andly provide it. croneyism is creeping into our government and i will change it. i have fought most of my adult life for texas. i don't want my texas to be run over with toll roads. i don't want my texas to run over private property rights. i don't want my governor to mandate vaccines for 12-year-old girls that are not yet proven. that's not the kind of texas i drew up in. >> thank you. >> i wanttous leave texas better than we found it. we owe it to our children. god bless texas. >> thank you. >> candidates, we say thank you

and thank our audience at unt tonight. thank you this is the texas debate. we hope you have heard something tonight that will help you make an informed decision when you vote. if you tuned in late you can see the entire debate online at texas debates.org. good night from u.n.t. . .