host: the president will survey small businesses and head over to a republican meeting to talk about bipartisanship. he will give a brief public speech and meet behind closed doors for a private discussion with republican lawmakers. this morning on "the washington journal." we want to get your thoughts on the culture in washington. does it need to change bailout for democrats, 202-737-0002. for republicans, 202-737-0001. for independents, 202-628-0205. -- does it need to change? we begin this morning with this

article, "washington culture leaves little hope for change." when asked this week, "70% believe that the government was unhealthy or in need of large reform. that is up from 43% just after the election of george w. bush. to the degree that they could send a message out of massachusetts, it was not a message to obama, it was a message about what is going on in washington. the better answer lies in the culture of the capital, where every problem is seen less as an issue to be resolved and more as a tool for a political position, where every position is automatically a failed by the other side's 24/7 political attack machine.

with lawmakers failing to meet a compromise, they are failing their own party activists. this culture makes a retreat to partisan corners the safest route in any controversy." we want to get your thoughts this morning. you can start dialing out. first we want to hear from paul west, "the baltimore sun" political reporter. let's talk of your peace. "president obama, meeting with republicans today in baltimore." what is he expected to say? caller: probably the same thing that he said in his state of the union speech. he did a fairly long statement on partisanship, calling out both parties to stop fighting the battles that have dominated

washington for decades. try something new, try common sense. i expect it will be a variation on that theme. host: what will the reaction be from republicans? caller: i do not know how much of the real reaction we will get to see. i do not even know how much of the real reaction the president will be able to see. there will be a question and answer session with the president with more than 100 house republicans at their annual retreat. i am sure that the gloves will come off and it will be pretty blunt, knowing who is going to be there. i am sure that some of those votes will not hold back. host: who are those folks? give our viewers an idea of who might go head-to-head with the president.

caller: i would expect john boehner to set the tone. there was a press conference in washington before the republicans left for baltimore. he did government's words. he said that he was eager for the president to come to the retreat, but that republicans were looking to roll over other principals. he kept repeating his criticism of what he called the president's job-killing agenda, a health-care bill that the president is trying to shove down the throats of the american people, so that gives you an idea. host: you have covered washington for a while, do expect a culture of change conversation to take place?

caller: i think that the republicans are talking about how many seats they're going to pick up in the election this fall. that has changed from the republican point of view. anytime you get the kind of anger in the electorate that we are seeing this year, you tend to be a fairly large swings. republicans saw that in 1994 when they picked up the house from the democrats. the democrats had a fairly good year in 2006 and to get back. i expect a change in the culture of washington for republicans means how many seats they can pick up from democrats. host: how do they go about picking up seats in their strategy, dated day? are they just saying opposition?

caller: i think that what we will hear today and going forward are some republican ideas, republicans recognizing that they need a positive agenda, that this cannot go to the voters with a negative, even if that helps them to win elections this fall. they have to put forward some kind of agenda. i know that we will not here this weekend, there contract of america. as the year goes along, republicans will develop the national themes that their candidate's can use, district by district this fall. host: that is the headline in this morning's "politico," talking about a contract with america to point out.

obama is to detail a payroll tax credit this morning, what is he expected to say on that? caller: that is the other piece of his visit, something that he touched on in the state of the union, a $33 billion program if it gets enacted by congress, assuming congress passes it this year, a $5,000 tax credit for every new employee that a business hires. there would be tax benefits the companies that increase wages or hours for existing employees. this is an attempt to encourage companies that might be on the fence to think about hire more workers and do it. the white house says that the benefit would be retroactive to the first of january if approved and it would only apply to hiring that takes place this

year. host: we wrote a story yesterday that talks about the retreat and why they take place. both parties do them, who pays for them? caller: the members pay their own expenses, meaning that the use campaign funds, meaning that interrupt -- indirectly their donors are paying to defer the expense. this being an election year, the democrats held there in washington. usually these events take place at resorts in a reasonable distance from washington. this year they are in baltimore. the congressional institute is

helping to pick up the tab. host: paul west, thank you for your time this morning. back to your phone calls -- washington culture, does it need to change? good morning, missouri. caller: it does need to change. the democrats have a house, the presidency. they are at fault. president obama lied to us in his first year, lied in his state of the union address. and judge alito told him that he lied. let's keep in mind who is running the country. his job build them of what a joke. cap and trade? that will not happen. host: when republicans ran the house and the senate through 2006, did you approve of the way that we -- they ran washington?

caller: yes, we had unemployment at 5%, the economy was rolling along. it all comes down to the democrats. they will realize, in november, that they will not be elected again. 2012, you think of the president will be elected again? no way that the american people will put up with this. host: all right. let's hear from the democratic line. host: the president will be elected again, but he needs to get out of the white house and to what he has to do, it is not going to change. as long as he is up there and they're fighting against them, he will get it right. they have got to get the old folks out of there. host: paul, republican line.

what do you think? caller: first, i must say that you are my favorite host. yes, the culture in washington needs to change. this president, he is not by president. i did not vote for him and i never will pull needs to go -- all of the liberal democrats need to go and be replaced with iran over reagan conservatives. and -- we -- they need to be replaced with ronald reagan conservatives. they need to get the american people back to work. they must reestablished a common-sense conservative agenda in washington, d.c. host: what is a common-sense

conservative agenda bell? caller: first of all, there needs to be no more big government. they need to be pro small business, pro second amendment politicians. all of the conservative principles that were already in stoc -- all of the conservative principles that ronald reagan saw in that our founding fathers prince of -- champion. host: marc, good morning. caller: i wanted to say that the

culture needs to change in washington, but what is happening is the electorate is being dumb down. to be honest with you, we are not standing on their own peace in queues. i am an independent, but i have voted more democratic than anything else. speaking to those in attendance, republicans, and democrats that see things in black and white, the idea is that our culture of washington media does not allow third candidates and forth candidates that have a lot to bring to the table to be serious candidates and be seriously considered to be elected to office, that is one of our biggest problems. that is the problem. did you think we can keep vacillating back-and-forth from democrats the republicans to

change our politics is absolutely insane. take a massachusetts rates. edward kennedy, a successful business entrepreneur, to do that we need a lot of excellent skill sets of survival. the idea that he got no play, no press, no anything, was not considered a serious candidate because he was not on the inside is really appalling. until we take off these republican and democratic cats and start looking at individuals for their qualifications and their lives of body of work, the culture in washington is not going to change because the electorate is not willing to change. host: do you vote for incumbents?

caller: i would be anti- incumbent if we do not get term limits. every person across the political spectrum should be anti-incumbent to send the message that we need term limits. host: two examples of the washington culture from "the washington journal," "this culture makes to retreat to partisan corners the safest route in any controversy. two examples -- last fall, mr. obama opened the door to including in the big health overhaul some steps toward stemming the rash of medical malpractice suits that drive up health costs. his party conspicuously close the door. second example -- this week the senate defeated a bill to

create a bipartisan commission that would compose a plan to reduce the mammoth budget deficit, which the full congress would have to accept or reject in a single vote." dallas, texas, republican line. your thoughts? caller: first of all, you are nice young lady. i like that. i really think that they definitely need to change policy -- i cannot remember the president b.j. is now two terms. -- president -- it is now to terms. they need to be voted by the people, not by lobbyists.

they do not need to be there. as far as reform, they need to scratch that. host: ok. steve, savannah, georgia. democratic line. caller: first of all, i would like to think myself for being able to pay my cable bill and watch your show. thanking you would be like thinking the department for sending a refund check. -- thinking -- thinking do -- thanking the department for sending a refund check. i think that you are running your own fox news network within

c-span. host: household? caller: the way the u.s. questions to democratic collars and republican callers, i feel you are seriously biased in the way that you present your questions. i believe that the president is a man of peace. he has done everything possible to give the minority power, the republican party is the minority, and they do not even realize it. they act like they are in power. this president has done everything that he can do to encourage them to come on board. and they refuse. host: you think of the democrats

should use their power in numbers? -- you think that the democrats should use their power in numbers? caller: that is what democracy is about. the majority rules. the minority is asking -- acting like they are the majority. it is really sad to see that c- span is becoming this network that is an outlet for the republicans. that is what i am increasingly noticing. c-span is increasingly becoming this fox network organization and it is saddening to see. host: we are open to criticism but we respectfully disagree, we attempted to balance out the show with guests and comments and everything. what we present to you as far as newspapers and particles is what people here in washington are reading. we are hearing from you outside

of washington and we are letting you know what people in washington are seeing. bob, in vienna. caller: i think it is remarkable how balanced c-span is. i will counterbalance those comments. i would like to agree with one of the callers from earlier. to change the culture you also have to change the media culture. so much should have to change about washington. the republicans are doing nothing more than the democrats were doing when the republicans have the majority. congress, frozen and not able that, we cannot afford this health-care thing. we do not have the money. [no audio] host: are you still there? sorry about that, if you want

to call back in, we will get you back on. lost the connection. palms springs, good morning. caller: i think that the culture in washington needs to change, but it needs to change in the entire united states as well. remember reverend right? he tried to explain this to america. republicans, you know what i was always taught? you call people liars, but i was always taught that it takes one to no one. go to your church and talked your creatures, who are not giving you the right training as far as how you should be as a person in america. thank you. host: news from the associated press, "bill gates is planning

to give $10 billion to research vaccines over the next decade. also, there is a report that a osama bin laden, in a new video -- audio tape, has called for the world to abandon the u.s. dollar, blaming industrialized companies -- countries for global warming. the numbers are out for how many unions watched the state of the union, slipping down from last year. 48 million people tune in across 11 networks, but viewership is down from his address to the joint session of congress last february. the numbers are up from the first official address by george w. bush after the 9/11 terrorist attack.

-- "as latter-day state of the union addresses go, it did score higher than average, up from the first official address of bill clinton. new hampshire, republican line, good morning. caller: first of all, i want to say that c-span is very fair. i was watching fox the other night, learning that they have 49% of the people and trust that the network -- not just republicans, but independent's and democrats are watching fox as well. the other networks have been extremely biased and c-span is not. watching the president the other night, i can only use this analogy -- it was unfortunate, because he had an opportunity to move to the center.

the country has become center- right. we need term limits, i certainly agree with that. this health care plan, i am in the insurance business and have been doing that for 20 years and it was a debacle. the cornhuskers kickback, the louisiana purchase, people are so cynical about this kind of thing. the fact that the president said that they would open up the hearings the c-span, we want c- span in there and that has not occurred. he has a real opportunity to move towards the center, and i think that this is, unfortunately, his lack of executive experience. there is a great deal of difference between campaigning and leading the and i think he

is unfortunately the learning that lesson. host: there was an article in "the washington times" this morning about the tea party movement, "the republican national committee needs to have two resolutions. the first needs to be accountability. calling for the chairman to state that there is a free market electorate." "the second is a reagan reagan -- resolution, 80% of the core beliefs must be held of." -- held up." what do you think about that? in order to gain the trust of the tea party? caller: what it boils down to

for the republican party, we have seen it in less three republican election wins, what the party -- what the people want right now more than anything else is fiscal conservatism. stay away from the moral issues, what people really want is moderation. the majority of the people are fiscally conservative. they want the government to work, but they wanted to work in a more efficient way. watching the news on one of the other networks, the debt ceiling was raised to $14 trillion. again, republicans and democrats, there is plenty of blame to go around. but it was $4 trillion during the clinton administration. we have seen the national debt rise and it is not sustainable.

host: would you support a republican candidate who said -- we are going to tackle entitlement programs? social security and medicare? caller: we have to, absolutely. this is where term limits would be very effective. these politicians are now so beholden to their special interests that they cannot tackle those issues because they are afraid they will live get reelected. we have to give the president the line-item veto. i would like to have the president with just 16-year term as well. without term limits, we are putting it on congress. if they do not keep the budget within a certain ratio of the gross national product or whenever they have to do, they cannot run for reelection.

just like state governments, they have to balance the budget and if they cannot, we will not re-elect them. host: we will leave it there. jack, in the pan and line. caller: i know the the washington culture needs to change, if you see a building burning you do not ask if we need to put it out. but a couple of comments about fair and balanced. c-span is great. i am wondering how people are talking about the lack of the merits here. what i would like to say is there was a caller earlier talking about how we need to elect people and any other group that wants to be involved is shut out of the process due to a monetary situation, basically. what we need to do is have

changes in that regard. that is all i needed to say. host: "the wall street journal" has an article this morning, " the bills simply became bogged down in the senate when house democrats were politically exposed with nothing to show for it. senate democrats are increasingly culpable as they tried to pull themselves out of a tailspin. in several occasions the president urged the senate to follow through. after the speech, anthony wiener said the the republican opposition in the senate is the enemy. democratic line, davey. good morning. caller: the problem is that everyone is blaming everyone else.

for the first time, we need to be rid -- united together to solve this problem. the president has said that we cannot do this alone. we need to work together, please. these people are actually looking to be voted backed, they do not care what is happening to the country. let's work together and bring some solutions. this country is not functioning the way that it should. let's think about what is best.

host: in about 15 minutes we are going to talk about jobs and what president obama is going to announce in what will be proposed in washington. james, good morning. caller: here are some solutions for you -- term limits, to echoed the thoughts of previous callers. volunteerism. corporations are backing up the candidates. volunteerism would make the people be accountable at a volunteer level. if they are not going to be volunteers, have them be the last ones paid. talk about fiscal conservatism and moderation, with the debt ceiling being raised, the imf

should be looking into getting more employees. something like that. thank you, good morning. caller: texas, independent line. your thoughts? caller: can you hear me? host: yes. caller: there should be a filibuster rule in the senate. no matter which party has the majority, they cannot stop this legislation from going through. we do not have majority rules concepts in the senate. i do not know of any private sales the work that way. if you go to a club with 100 members and they vote for a particular law, that is what happens.

the minority party can easily be the party that says no. host: republicans, facing similar tensions -- after the gop takeover in 1994, there will 7 -- there were several items in their contract with america. to clear up the bottleneck, tom harkin pushed for a change to overcome filibusters, 67 votes are required to change senate rules. the president has conceded that success is not likely. don? caller: i love c-span, i have been watching for quite a while. host: we are listening. host: recently, you have kind of change. seems like your-questions are

pretty rampant. i cannot hear your taught -- hear you talking because my television is turned down, i know the people have problems talking to you with the tv on. but i know that it will never change in the white house as far as the culture, because it is all for the white man. president obama is not going to get anything done until he gets rid of all the bigots in the administration. the republicans are never going with anything that he wants because he is black, and that is how i feel about it. we are never going to get anywhere. these next three years, it is just going to be a failure until things change for the black man. host: ronald, republican line.

good morning. caller: good morning, first-time caller. the thing that i've noticed within my own circle of friends, everyone wants to talk about how health care is going to cost so much, but if we spend that much money every year, it seems to me that that is the primary source of our financial problems. something needs change. we need to not be the policeman of the world. host: ok. there are articles this morning in the newspaper about the moment during the state of the union when president obama talked about the recent campaign finance ruling by the supreme court. in an article this morning in "the washington post" it asked "was the remark rude or

inappropriate in regards to what judge alito said"? "it is not clear which part of obama's statement he objected to, although he started shaking his head after the president used the phrase special interests. taken aback by obama's criticism and the response. it was unfortunate for both branches, leaving the individuals aside. if it were up to obama, judge alito would not have been in the chamber, as obama led the fight against president george w. bush's second nominee for the cart -- court. accomplished a judge of the time, obama said of the lido

when you look at his record to comes to his understanding of the constitution i found an almost every case he consistently sides on behalf of the powerful against the powerless. joe biden accepted the courtesy call invitation from the court, and john roberts -- and judge toledo was the only member of the court not to attend the afternoon events. on the bench, judge alito is a serious presence, leading a solitary life when he was an appellate judge. as a member of the camera covers court, it is unlikely he was thinking wednesday night that his reaction would be captured." tennessee, good morning. caller: in a first-time caller, i will make a short period -- i am a first-time caller, i will

make a short peri. i work for a bank for 17 years. i had to quit eight years ago. but in my 17 years when i was there, i was a manager in one state and an assistant manager in tennessee. i cannot tell you, several of the branches of the banks that i worked in, one in particular, i never sought an auditor, in to the bank. which was very much needed. host: how does this relate to the washington culture? caller: money, for the bailout. all of these businesses, the

fdic should be held accountable for the government, whoever. host: democratic line, west virginia. caller: i am calling regarding c-span. i have watched for 20 years. i know you are saying you are fair, i do not think so. these past 20 years i saw most of the time republicans have had more chance to call and answer their calls, and then they have more time to explain their point of view compared to independents or democrats. compared to democratic congressmen or senators or anyone, commentators, you always read the articles most times from "usa today" or "wall street

journal" which are right wing papers. if you are such fair minded journalist, why did they not call when george bush was in power? they lied to the country, sending troops to iraq, saying they had a weapon of mass destruction. why did they not ask questions to george bush? he lied to the country. when he attacked obama and the congress, why did they not put the health care program muncie's ban? i hope that everyone had a fair minded thing to tell the republicans. host: i encourage you and others to go to our website. we have letters that have been

written by the management over the years, while republicans were in charge, asking for transparency and openness into discussions in there. 1994, when republicans were in control, letters were sent to the supreme court. you can see it all on our web site. louisiana, republican line. caller: i think that there is way too much secrecy in the government now. it was shown when they were making all of these deals behind closed doors. also, the first thing that president obama did, when he got into office, was seel all of his records. i do not know why anyone would want to seal their records.

unless they had something to hide. i am not too smart. and i would like the democrats to keep calling in about things to explain it to me. why did he steal his records? host: we will leave it there and show you a few more headlines this morning. president obama told the justice department to reconsider having the terror trial in new york city." "the new york times" this morning has a story about ford and the toy iota -- toyota o,

"ford plans to issue profit- sharing checks to 43,000 hourly workers. next to that is a story this morning in "the new york times" about the health bill agenda turning to the economy and a bid for gop votes. that is the discussion coming up next. we are going to talk about jobs. we will be right back. ♪ >> for british prime minister, tony blair, tet -- former british prime minister, tony blair, testifies today, he is expected to be asked about the decision to go to war and military intelligence today. you can follow an online ad c-

span.org or on c-span 3. president obama is speaking today at the annual retreat for republicans. during his state of the union on wednesday, the president called for a lift on the ban on gays in the military. the chairman of the joint chiefs will testify before congress next week about that. now you can hear his comments live at 3:00 p.m. eastern on c- span. >> you feel that american jobs can be an instrument for spreading good will overseas? >> i think so. >> without question he was the single most important figure in jazz in the 20th-century.

>> this weekend, at 8:00 p.m. eastern and pacific, on c-span, "q&a." >> john u. talks about his new book, "crisis and command," this weekend in "book tv." >> "washington journal" continues. host: jim mctague is here to talk was about jobs. what is the president's payroll tax credit going to look like? guest: he is elaborating on the plan from the state of the union address, essentially giving employers a credit against social security taxes. hiring new workers or giving a pay raise to existing workers.

a controversial proposal in washington, the critics would say that these people would have been hired anyways. the proponents, people with money in their pockets, talk about this as a way to get people working and, generating jobs without generating tax revenues to help to pay down our debt at some future date. host: can larger businesses also take care of this? host: date -- guest: they can take advantage of certain parts of the proposal. the language that is the least vague.

there are details to come later with the budget next week. host: this is not law by executive order or anything like that. this proposal has to go to the house and the senate. guest: id is very complicated, the house has already passed a jobs bill. the senate, the president's proposal today would cost about $33 billion. he would have to get the house or the senate to add this on to an existing bill, getting them to incorporate it into this legislation. host: a payroll tax credit is not a part of the house or

senate right now? guest: it would be very attractive for businesses to hire people. critics have argued that they might hire people they do not need, as customers are not coming in through the door. you would be getting a tax credit to help the bottom line. host: how many jobs did the white house say that this might create? caller: they have not given a number. when trying to calculate how many jobs a proposal will create, the administration in the past has claimed that direct government spending on infrastructure projects creates maybe half of a job more than

tax cuts, but republicans would argue that tax cuts are the best way to create jobs. this is in fighting amongst economists about which assumption is the best one. host: is this going to help small businesses hire more people? what are the majority of small business jobs? blue collar? white collar? caller: -- guest: the majority are manufacturing jobs or clerical jobs. the administration would like to stimulate more manufacturing jobs in the green energy sector. in the electrical sector, there was a smart kid, they were making proposals about high- speed rail. with this tax proposal, because

they are small businesses that are currently service oriented, that is where we would see the jobs created. host: you mentioned the house passing a jobs bill last summer, let's listen to what nancy pelosi had to say about the agenda going forward with jobs. >> everything that we have done and that the president has proposed has been about jobs. i would hope that if the president called upon the congress to complete the energy climate change bill and education bill, these are jobs compared to health care that are extraordinary in the life of the bill, good paying green jobs for the future, keeping us number one, they have to pass that as well. they have money larger numbers

of jobs in the cyclical aspects of unemployment. we have got to be talking about a fundamental change for job creation. host: what is in the house bill? she is talking about other legislation to create jobs, but when it comes to the jobs bill in the house, what does it do? guest: it creates a lot of government jobs, and in to create some in the private sector. my understanding of the bill is that the bulk of the jobs would be for police, teachers, government jobs for students. more of the same. more like a $787 billion stimulus that has had an outsized effect on the government sector. you can look at the unemployment figures to see this.

the unemployment rate amongst government developers is 3.4%. the unemployment rate amongst construction workers is 22%. what is wrong with this picture? host: the understanding was that with the first round of stimulus there were lots of shell already jobs. that was the goal. host: i like to say that when the government towards a contract, it takes a year to find the senator who has a political donation for a cousin with a contract. host: we have not seen the contracts, line yet. host: i am sure there are patronage politics going on. i talked to a panel of economists one week ago, they thought that the bulk of this infrastructure spending would begin to impact the economy in

this quarter. they suggested that the administration hold off on other jobs bill until the first stimulus works its way through the system. the problem is that the government thought that shovel ready meant that the people would be working within months and it will be over one year before they start hiring. host: the senate has not unveil a jobs bill, but they're working on legislation. any details to talk about as far as what is in that legislation? guest: i have not heard anything, i cannot comment. i would expect that they would have some tax breaks of a different type, may be aimed at lowering tax rates, but this is pure conjecture on my part.

i hear people talking about lowering corporate taxes in the senate. host: went byron dorgan sits down with c-span this weekend -- when byron dorgan saddam with c- span this weekend, i will ask him. pensacola, florida. democratic line. good morning, go ahead. caller: thank you. on the jobs thing, the previous segment was on changing the culture. i think that with this, jobs are a part of the culture. as the president said, we need to take this money back from the big banks and give it to the local banks so that making it the jobs going. that is a part of a culture, big banks keeping the money. again, the culture of america

needs to change. simply because the republicans do not have enough votes, there are republicans on every committee that contributed to everything that has been done. simply because they do not have enough votes does not mean that it is not bipartisan. they have the opportunity to participate, they just have not been able to convince anyone else. as far as someone mentioned about the back door deals, if the republicans had been allowed to vote their role instead of voting in blocks, those three that we had to pay back door deals to would not have been needed. host: before we get an answer to the question, let me show you what john boehner had to say about jobs yesterday. >> as we go to our retreat, republicans are going to work

and better solutions when it comes to energy, the environment, health care, and trying to get our economy growing again. the american people are still asking the question -- where are the jobs? i believe that the solutions have been laid out and we will go much further in terms of creating jobs for americans. host: jim mctague, have republicans talk about what they want to do with jobs? what are they saying? guest: file i have not seen a formal proposal, they are saying that tax cuts are the way to go of the past, that keynesian stimulus has proven ineffective. host: they would agree with the president's payroll tax credit? caller: i would think so. i think that the president

tossing out there is throwing a bone to the republicans, in order to give them a reason to cooperate. whether or not they will cooperate, i do not know. this is an election year. they have opposed all of every initiative that the president has put forward. i think that the american people want to see the congress addressing the problems of our nation and that republicans will have to cooperate on some kind of jobs bill. host: david, you are the next phone call. caller: thank you for taking my call. sir, thank you for explaining about how this process works. one question i would like to ask you, how does the government

going to address hiring so many government workers as opposed to private jobs? that is one of the questions. another question, wanting to get jobs out there, in the go-go years in california it seemed that we have government jobs, defense jobs, private jobs. work was pretty much coming out where you could go into any type of a job out there. i do not see that happening right now. the other question that i'd like to ask is -- when will all this money be released? how will the money get into circulation without a lot of

bureaucracy? cutting through the red tape? it seems like they have been talking about this ever since they tried to get money into the hands of the people so that they can spend it, so the business people can spend it to create other jobs and opportunities. one last thing? these green jobs that nancy pelosi was talking about, these are one time jobs. you go and you put up a window, these guys are gone. you go and you put up solar panels? they do not assemble them and these guys are off and running. it is not like they're working at a job each and every day. host: let's start first with the government and private jobs. call -- guest: the government is saying that we have to hire. there is a problem down the

road, at some point you have to shrink the size of government. that is hard to do when you create all of these jobs. you are creating a painter -- patronage system. patronage is currency in the political world. someone in congress could get people in his district jobs, he is essentially buying votes. .

you are going to need people out there with boats, you are going to need people painting them constantly and the leader not, windmills' need oil to run for lubricant. so it would create refinery jobs as well. host: illinois on the independent line. john. caller: a couple of things. i think our president is a good, honest man who actually cares about the working man, the common man, but he was not elected a cane and i don't see our congress supporting him as much as it could -- he was not elected a king. one thing i'm curious about and

maybe the gentleman can answer this. what percentage of working age americans are supported by our government? from policeman, teachers, a groundskeeper, people will make weapons, or political leaders and their staffs -- i am wondering what percentage of the working public supports what percentage of the government? host: are you following? guest: in essentially he is saying what percent of the employment population is working for government. i don't have that statistic. you can talk about state, local, and federal. i would suggest that he go on the internet and go on to the bureau of labor statistics website and i am sure he will find that figure. i just don't have it on the top of my head right now. >> carson -- host: carson, california, on the

democratic line. caller: i would like to make a brief comment and i would like to ask a question for the guests you have on this morning. real briefly, you had a guest on, mr. van hollen, i guess a representative from maryland -- he touched the issue of top 3% of tax cuts have been given and yet we see that we have a war that was done under the previous administration era that was not fund it and we see phil gramm, dick armey or some of the other republicans wrote about credit card bill. to say that we in this financial -- under the last congress, beyond that, to ask mr. mctague, what percentage of

the funds will be distributed from this tarp money to small business or that of the infrastructure? and what process would it take to get that money to the public and how long will it take to get there? last, and i will leave. i would like to see c-span also to bring on and challenge what happened with the filibuster as well as to bring on different guests talking about how they have introduced legislation to work for the working class people. thank you, have a great -- good evening. guest: i wish i was a super mathematician. here is the percentage. we spent about $23 trillion on the economic bailout, and that includes the tarp money, the programs at the federal reserve, other treasury programs, $787 billion stimulus.

so, we spent roughly $23 trillion, which i can't even conceive of. now, what the president wants to do is take about $200 billion of the tarp money, which apparently will not be spent, and use that for programs like the one he will announce today. so it is a very small percentage of the funds. host: will a jobs bill coming out of congress add to the deficit? guest: if they used the $200 billion from tarp, it wouldn't increase the deficit but that money was supposed to come back and pay down the deficit. so the critics say, look, we've really got to begin to reduce the deficit. we can't go on another spending spree. but other people -- and this is from the right or the left. this isn't a democrat or republican thing.

earlier this week the national association of manufacturers came out and they are asking the government to spend $450 billion on infrastructure programs and another $40 billion on corporate tax breaks and changes in export controls to help business. so, there are some people who argue our economy is so weak we have to spend a lot more money and others argue if this deficit keeps on rising we are going to blow up the country. holst, one of our viewers on twitter -- does that sound about right to you? guest: he knows better than i did. host: california, republican line. good morning. caller: when i watched the president's speech, the state of the union, one thing i was at

least tapping -- happy about is he was finally doing some things to make it easier for businesses to hire and to expand. that was, reduce taxes and a few other things. but i am wondering whether they are also going to take a look at some of the restrictive rules and regulations that make it difficult for businesses to grow and expand? that is particularly true in california where businesses in some cases are leaving the state and are reluctant to try to establish a business and the state because there are just so many rules and regulations that they have to cope with. out here there has been an anti business climate in the legislature for many years. i think we are feeling the effects now. i'm wondering if we look at what rules and regulations as well as

possibly reducing taxes to help spur job growth. host: let me read something from "the baltimore sun" this morning. this story by paul west -- an additional bonus subsidy for businesses to increase hours and wages for employees. what do you think, tom? caller: it sounds a little complicated but it looks like it is a good start. host: are you a businessman?

caller: i'm pretty much retired now but, yes, i have my own small business, and even at my level, very, very small, there are lots of rules and regulations and restrictions i have to deal with. guest: when congress proposes a bill they are supposed to have their aides up there -- i forget, cbo or omb, and look at the effect on businesses and whether there will be a red tape drag, etcetera. but the short answer is, this is an election year and there will be no deliberation. they are being driven by the polls. they want to convince the american public that they are capable of action. as you saw on but disastrous health care legislation, they tried to ram everything through -- the disastrous health care legislation. i think they will try to ram

jobs bill through but this time they will have republicans pushing and shoving as hard as democrats, so as far as deliberations and obstacles, forget about. they just wanted money out the door. host: dayton, ohio. independent line. ron, good morning. caller: my thinking is if the company wants to hire an employee, the cost 25%, 35% more to hire them because of the taxes, travelling expenses, that they incur. in order for small businesses, a designation of 100 or fewer or 50 or fewer, to make new employees 1099 employees or employees pay their own taxes, expenses, even a deduction for health insurance, and they could sunset a clause like that in to go away in about three years

after the business cycle has changed and possibly after we have an insurance program in place. so, it allows the company to hire more employees, not to have to worry about the additional taxes or expenses that have to be incurred. i would like your opinion. host: jim, what do you think? guest: he sounds like it knows what to run a business. the problem, it does do away with payroll tax expenses, but are you going to hire somebody if you don't have customers coming in the door? does that make economic sense for the business and for the taxpayer? that is the debate. politicians would argue that just having an employee is a benefit to the economy as a whole because of the multiplier effect. i am not so sure. host: president obama also during the state of the union talked about increasing u.s. exports. it is that part of the job

equation as well? guest: it will be. again, you have the organizations like the national association of manufacturers who complained that the controls on high-tech exports to countries like china and india are archaic, that china and india can buy equipment from our nato allies and yet americans are not allowed to sell the same equipment. so they would like a preview of this because they say it would create hundreds of thousands of jobs if we were allowed to sell these products. they also want a reduction of the corporate income tax, to 23%, which would be an average of the big industrialized countries. they claim that would make our country very attractive to foreign investors who want to build a plant someplace, and that would increase and women. that will be part of the debate on the hill. host: on the issue of exports,

"the new york times" writes that the trouble is meeting the ambitious goal would require the president to engage in a fight to the death with the liberal wing of his own party, persuade china to allow its currency to appreciate 40%, get global economic growth to outperform the salad days of 2003 through 2007, and lower taxes for american companies that do business abroad. and, while he is added, for about strengthening the dollar in the foreseeable future. guest: of the china issue and the currency is probably one of the reasons we have a huge job drain in this country. i am perplexed. i know we are indebted to the chinese and they own more treasury securities now i think than japan. i am not sure, but they are one of the biggest holders of treasury securities and they could make life miserable for us by raising the cost of credit.

that being said, they have stolen millions of jobs from us because of this currency discrepancies. and i think at some point, the president will have to stand up to the chinese and say, enough, because otherwise this is war by other means, destroying our economy. host: jacksonville, florida, the line for democrats. jack. caller: good morning. the fellow just talked basically said the same thing. i am an electrician by trade and i have been for 35 years. and today in this country there is absolutely no place to go to work. i heard the president say the other night -- proposing he would put 1 million, to a million and have people back to work by the end of the year. there are 15-18 million people out of work right now in this country.

i don't know how they are going to survive another year, you know -- the government is going to keep paying unemployment benefits to all of them? i am unemployed, to. if you go to the store and you all know, everything is virtually made overseas now, in china. and this has been going on for 10 years. a long time ago, you just had the little fans and the knobs from china and now everything -- power tools to, pat, even some of our food, clothes -- heck, even some of our food. take a country like the united states, first-class country, and you try to compete with a country paying people 48 cents an hour, we will never be able

to compete with that. we need to stop and put our people back to work. you know, -- not everybody goes to college in this country, and that is the way it is going to be. but between a husband and a wife, the made enough money to support their families and have a life in this country. and now they don't. until we stop and put our people back to work making our automobile parts, our clothes and tools, everything we need, and then when we get stable and bako -- on our feet, then we can talk about fair trade. guest: i disagree. what he is proposing is a closed economy, the type of economy we have before world war ii. let me use a simple illustration. when i was a kid -- and we had

six kids in my family -- and my father took us out to get shoes because the shoes were made in this country, it would cost him an entire weeks' pay. shoes were exorbitantly expensive. there were made in the usa. when was the last time anybody in this country have seen a kid with a hole in his sneakers? i have not seen one in 20 years. as a kid i had a cardboard in my shoes constantly to cover the holes. so, there are benefits to free trade because we get less expensive goods and it raises the quality of life. now, there are a lot of things at work in the economy -- the internet, the currency. a lot of things that are costing us jobs. but i will also add a lot of the things we buy from china are made by american companies in china, so how do we attract these companies back to the u.s.? we could either use a stick -- the president is talking about removing tax breaks for companies that locate jobs

overseas. we can use the carrot and lower corporate tax rates. barron's, which is a liberal publication, we would eradicate corporate taxes completely because they are passed on to the public anyway and with the zero corporate tax rate companies from all over the world would want to locate here because of our system of laws, the quality of our workforce, and other protections offered by the united states. host: cape cod, massachusetts, on the republican line. good morning. caller: i want to thank c-span. doing a very fair presentation of the issues, and you are doing a great job. i think there is a confusion about social security. it is really sort of a private- sector matter. it is paid through employee deductions matched by the private sector, corporations. and therefore it is not designed

as a trite -- drain on the treasury. medicare, though, is because the cost of come to exceed the payments. the new bill seems to me is another intrusion by government into really private sector matter, even though it is mandated by the government and run by the government, it is paid for by the employees and the companies. i would say, give a tax break, yes, but not in any way relate it to social security. it seems the goal is to take over one more aspect of the private sector by getting their hands into social security and they are taking advantage of this confusion. guest: he is really giving the republican argument very crisply, and again, the democrats' argument is that the economy is in dire straits. we are beginning to recover but

it is an evil recovery so the government has to inject itself temporarily in order to make sure it the economy recovers, that it does not lose steam and collapse again. and the argument among conservatives would be, again, keep the government out of the private sector, remove obstacles to business formation and existing businessmen by lowering taxes. there are good arguments on both sides. we are in uncharted territory here. we have not been here since the great depression. so, it is anybody's guess what will work. but the democrats are in power, so they will use the bigger government approach. host: this is a piece in "the new york times" section --

europe ways possibility of that the fault in greece. does this impact the united states and this country's economy? guest: by the way, one of the problems -- the chinese currency on balance is also affecting europe. and greece is symptomatic of that. how it would affect the united states? it affects the european kong -- currency, the bureau. so i see a positive effect. because the dollar -- as weak as it is, it is really worthless because the federal reserve is just running the printing presses full speed. but greece and ireland and a few other countries are in dire straits. greece may default on its debt and that will wreak -- weaken european currencies so foreign investment will tend to migrate to our country which will help keep our interest rates low, and

low interest rates should help boost recovery. >> next phone call, san antonio, texas, independent mind. caller: i have a comment to make. host: go ahead. caller: i want republicans and democrats, everyone who hears my voice, our lord and savior jesus christ, this is his world, he is still in charge -- once before, man did, and if you read your bible all of these things must come to pass. host: all right, on the democratic line, bethlehem, pennsylvania. caller: it seems like we never have more jobs unless demint increases -- supply side economics does not work as we found out with the huge tax cuts that president bush and republicans gave to wealthiest

corporations. no one seems to have noticed that president obama when he talks about tax cuts, they are primarily aimed at people earning less than a quarter million dollars a year. maybe you have forgotten but there were huge tax cuts that were supposed to expire for the wealthy and i have not heard anybody say let's forget about that. those taxes will go back in effect and that is the only thing that will bring our economy back in control. it has been ridiculous how much money these people are making, these bonuses and these kinds of things. you can't contacts is in the middle of wars. it has never been done. it is just plain stupid. guest: there is a final interpretation of history than that. the bush tax cut actually did keep unemployment very low, and they were serendipitous because we had the attacks on 9/11 and the economy recovered very nicely, number one.

so, the tax cuts did work there. but i also agree you cannot have guns and butter. you cannot wage a war -- president bush took us into iraq -- and he did not raise taxes to pay for that war, and that helped contribute to the deficit problem. so, the tax cuts did work in peace time -- they did cushion our economy. unemployment was very low. it is hard to remember, isn't it, that unemployment was 4% or 5%, one of the few times since 1980 that it had been so low. but also agree with the gentleman that president bush in essentially repeated the mistake of another texan, lyndon johnson, who tried to give us guns and butter simultaneously. host: "the washington times" reporting the senate a -- okayed a new debt limit. the all-democrat vote sets it at

$14.30 trillion. also some more economic news in the papers. front pages of many of them. senate confirms ben bernanke, fed chairman, as second term. bernanke won a majority of both democrats and republicans, 70- 30. he received more no votes than any fed chairman before, topping paul volcker was confirmed 84-16 in 1983. fort mill, south carolina, and the republican line. frank. caller: i just listen to the gentleman who called and it sounds to me like -- i might have missed it -- but if you raise taxes, even on the wealthy this is going to help the economy. there are plenty of people out there who paid rush limbaugh but he came out with a great statements that in the history of this country, raising taxes

has never driven the economy. and as long as you continue putting democrats in positions of power, starting at the president and working your way down, this economy is going to struggle. i am or originally from upstate new york, and if you ever want to see an economy that has been driven into the ground by high- powered rates and through the ceiling taxes take a ride up to upstate new york, all of you democrats who keep pushing for the high taxes, take a ride up there and see what happens to a state in an area when you continually raise taxes. guest: again, i come from a very libertarian publication and we would argue that government should be much smaller, it should be smaller as envisioned by our founding fathers where it has a role in the defense of the

country and certain commercial roles, so that it behooves us to cut the size of the federal government right now when we are faced with these giant deficits. at some point, taxes are going to have to be raised and they are not good for the economy. they are a drag. it is a head wind and it would slow down the recovery. so any tax increase has to be well thought out. what i hear coming from the administration, these are not well thought out. more class warfare tax cuts. i think there are kicking the can down the road again because unless we grow at a rapid pace, everybody in this country will end up paying taxes, rich and poor. again, my personal solution would be eliminate corporate taxes, let's grow the economy as quickly as we can. host: we will move on to one last on call for jim mctague,

santa rosa, california, on the independent mind. caller: i'm surprised to hear president obama standing up to the chinese. i would be -- it would be great. i don't understand nafta. i hear detractors. i am curious if you explain why they hate it so much. and you mention millions of jobs have been lost to the chinese because of the treasury bonds. how specifically does that come about? i will take my questions off the air. guest: nafta is really a treaty between mexico and canada and the united states. canada is our largest trading partner. organized labor has opposed it because they saw the transfer of jobs from the united states to mexico. but i think actually benefit from nafta. if you look at job creation at the ports and export-related

jobs, i think it more than compensated us for any jobs that went to mexico. and some of those jobs have migrated back recently. we have had korean and japanese auto makers building plants in at the south. i think net-net, that agreement has been a positive for the u.s.. what was the second -- 9 host: sorry, i forgot myself. guest: i am not used to getting up this early. i'm sorry. host: we ran out of time anyway. jim mctague, thank you. when we come back we will look at al qaeda in africa out with retired general. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010]

>> former british prime minister tony blair testified today in the inquiry into the iraq war in london. he is expected to be asked about prewar and delegates and the decision to go to war in 2003. live at 9:00 a.m. eastern on c- span3 and you could follow it online at c-span.org. president obama today speaks before the annual retreat of house republicans. live coverage of his comments at noon eastern here on c-span. during his state of the union wednesday the president called for a lift the ban on gays from openly serving in the military. chairman of the joint chiefs, admiral michael mullen, will testify before congress next week about that. today he is speaking before the center for strategic and international studies. you can hear his comments live at 3:00 p.m. also here on c- span. >> american jazz can be an instrument for spreading good

will overseas? >> i think so. just like a religion. they live it. >> he was without question the single most important figure in jazz and a 20th-century. >> q&a, sunday, in a biography of jazz great louis armstrong at 8:00 p.m. eastern and specific here on c-span. this weekend on c-span2's book tv, on how the growth of the muslim mogul -- middle-class and the middle east can and villages extremism, and the political cartoons of dr. seuss, published during the war years in the 1940's, also the neocons and provincial farm policy going back to the nixon administration. find the entire schedule at book tv.org and get the latest updates on twitter. >> "washington journal" continues.

host: colonel attalla, former africa director 2003 through 2007. where is the terrorist movement in africa? can you talk broadly about the whole concept? guest: sure, greta. they are actually spread between north africa and the horn of africa. the horn of africa right now is a very big issue because you have several dynamics. those are the areas primarily focused by al qaeda. everyone focuses on al qaeda and hopefully in the show we could talk about other groups as well. host: let us do it right now. it is not just how tight it in africa but other terrorist groups. guest: notably has a lot. they have been around for the a long time -- has block --

hezbollah. there have been involved in the drug trade. collections with the tri border region in latin america. working directly with the drug cartels, they are involved in the illicit diamond trade. just about every piece of business. that is one group we have to stay focused on besides al qaeda. host: out of all of that you explain, where is the biggest threat? guest: had two parts. one is somalia right now, and the other part is the region, northern mali, southern nigeria, mauritania and niger, all the way up to chad. host: why is terrorism -- why is it happening in africa? guest: africa is a large continent, three and a half times the united states. we have a lot of under-govern

spaces, especially in the zuhel region, week border controls, areas where government cannot reach effectively. so, al qaeda find a safe haven in these areas to train freely, to radicalize individuals, and -- this region in north africa at is close to europe obviously, so there is a natural link also as well between the extremists in europe and in that part of the region. the horn of africa it is a bit more complex, but in the case of somalia you have the times allover -- minnesota is a case in point. recently the fbi arrested eight individuals from minnesota who had links directly to a group in somalia. el-shebab sworn allegiance to al qaeda in september. they have direct links to east

africa al qaeda cell and frankly is a threat. in late 2000, and early 2008, 20 american somalis leave minnesota and traveled to join the group in somalia. the first documented u.s. suicide bomber, in his mid-20s, a student that went over there and actually blew himself up in a car bomb. that is a critical piece we need to keep our eyes focused on. host: how is al qaeda and these other terrorist groups able to recruit in africa? what means do they have? that's that in the case of somalia we are seeing they are reaching out to the -- guest: in the case of somalia we are seeing their reaching out to the communities. typically those communities are peaceful, they don't get

involved in those extremist activities but you have a younger crowd, the students who are being influenced and radicalized in mosques in europe and in the u.s.. al-shebab is under pressure internally because of other groups in the central region of somalia, and as they get under more and more pressure internally they look outside for assistance, pouring money into individuals. so they bring them in to radicalize them more and send it once was admissions. host: how mobile is al qaeda to move from africa to europe? guest: in order to move into europe and further in the united states, you need individuals who have the right passports. you cannot arbitrarily grab any africa -- african and say you have never been to the west before, we will send out there

to see -- carry out our deeds. they look for students who have saw the aid in the u.k. or other european countries or even in the case of the united states, and these are the individuals who are being radicalized, brought in and trained and being sent back out. it is happening. host: what is the military presence in africa -- your job from 2003 through 2007, the counterterrorism effort? guest: there are multiple fronts to it. for instance, in june of 2003, president bush put forth on the table something called the east africa counterterrorism initiative, a $100 million program to work with east african countries to contain the problem in southern somalia because we knew there was a threat there. of the $100 million, 49 of it went to the department of

defense to train countries like ethiopia and djibouti and kenya, border and cultural security, trying to beef up the capabilities to prevent the movement of al qaeda in and out of these countries. so that is one thing. in west africa and the state department has something called the trans sahara counter- terrorism program, and a piece of that is called the oefts or operation enduring freedom and trans sara. since thing. doing a lot of counter terrorism training, border security, coastal security, trying to support the police, and of course we work hand in hand with the state department to try to make sure we have the greatest impact. host: does your office to get an

of resources from the government to do your job effectively? guest: that is always the difficult thing in africa. people who worked on africa in both the department of defense side and state departments side are used to working with pennies in comparison to other parts of the world. i will give you an example. the u.s. government spent $9 billion per year in africa on health development, trade, and good governance and $250 million annually for peacekeeping, border and caused security. when you are looking at 53 african countries, three and half times the united states, that is a drop in the bucket compared to iraq, afghanistan, other parts of the world. to answer your question -- exactly, a resounding no. not enough. that is not enough. we need more resources for africa. host: has the problem escalated in africa? while you get the job and since you left? guest: sure, there are certain

parts where we are seeing escalation. the horn of africa being one. there is a big concern right now, the link between extremists in somalia and yemen. that is going to continue to fester. somalia has been without a functioning government since 1991. 14 attempts by the international community to put it together and to get a stable government there have all failed. so, yes, it continues to get progressively worse and we have some very bright people both on the state department side and the department of defense side working on these issues, but the resources are always needed. host: first phone call, brooklyn, new york, the line for democrats. nelson, good morning. caller: my question is, why are the united states and the western world, bickering in

congress as well as the digging about things that are personal, trying to bring down the present government. the chinese are spending billions of dollars building roads and infrastructure all over africa. that is the only way al qaeda can be kept out of africa. not through weapons. there are a lot of frustrated people in africa, unemployed, exploded -- exploited for the gold and valuables and whenever natural resources. it paid very little. so you will find a great deal of frustrated people on that continent. some of them frustrated in south africa with the rise -- the united states and the western world should compete with china

for the natural resources and spend more time dealing with uplifting government and communities in these areas. this doesn't mean you have to put in a lot of money. most people talk about africa being poor. africa is not poor. africans are not poor. africa has most of the wealth in this world. it built europe and many other parts of the world. host: nelson, before you go, where are you from? caller: i was born in trinidad. host: ok. your thoughts? guest: absolutely. nelson, you bring up a very good point. it is a double edged sword, too, because africans have to help themselves as well. we can't compete with china on

just dumping money hoping the problem goes away. it is not going to happen that way. so, it is a delicate balance of helping africans help themselves. in terms of peacekeeping, we tried to train africans, a program in which we do a train the trainer, get africans to train other african countries for peacekeeping operations. of course, investing and good governance is very, very important, and we do focus on these things. but again, it is a very large continent. in some cases you have certain countries where dictators are very corrupt. absolutely true. africa has a lot of resources. oil, gold, diamonds -- some of the wealthiest nations in the world in terms of resources exist in africa. and those have to be leveraged in a right way and used to bolster some of these governments to, one, take care of their own people, and we have

to do it in a smart way. host: does al qaeda invest in africa? guest: al qaeda has always invested -- host: i don't mean the people but the infrastructure -- the roads, resources. guest: know, al qaeda has stated objectives in africa. mainly if you look at the prominent attacks that occurred from al qaeda in the past decade, you will notice most of the attacks occurred all across north africa and down into the horn of africa. nowhere south of that, sub- saharan africa. why? 1, al qaeda stated they oppose peacekeepers especially in muslim countries. they want to the stabilize oil. of the more chaos, the better it is for them to grow. lastly, what they do is they opposed muslim countries that have western ties.

so, you see a very deep focus, for instance, in algeria, molly -- mali, libya, tunisia and morocco, and of course, somalia. host: easton, pennsylvania. robin the republican line. caller: thank you to c-span and thank you, sir, for your service to the country. there are many who are of the thought with regards to the war in afghanistan and pakistan that we should pull out because that area of the world is known as the burial ground of civilizations and the men and women who are dying so nobly their should better be brought home and surrounded our country with much tighter border security. thank you. guest: thank you. i have been a focus on africa for so long that in the periphery i look at afghanistan, pakistan. i understand, it is a difficult

political question. look -- i honestly believe that we have to continue to go after the threat. i think general mcchrystal said it perfectly -- the conflict will be won by persuading the population and not by destroying the enemy. so it is a delicate balance, again, that in effect of the u.s. military has to be involved but we have to do it in a very smart way. we got to reach the population. we got to win the hearts of the population. we are trying to do that in africa. general abizaid, former centcom commander, pushed for the growth of one of our only bases in africa, combined joint task force of more and of africa, and from there we reached out, the u.s. military reached out to countries like ethiopia, kenya, eritrea, djibouti, and we have

done well digging, vaccination of animals, reaching out to the population. those are things that are very important. in areas like afghanistan and iraq we also carry that torch and try to reach the population. at the same time there is another aspect, too, we have to go after the specific targets where al qaeda is planning and growing. a host of good morning, spartanburg, south carolina -- host: good morning, spartanburg, south carolina. caller: the main question of that for the gentleman is, he has not brought up the fact that the darfur incident, of the things going on today are all religious problems and throughout the muslim world is all a religious problem. a muslims are killing questions at an alarming rate and north africa and he fails to mention that. and the united states government fails to look at it as a

religious war. i would also like to bring up the fact that the united states government just allowed in to pull free movement throughout our country -- interpol free movement throughout our country, the main goal is to take bush and tony blair and try them as war criminals for the iran-iraq war. thank you. guest: well, actually the north- south problem in sudan is between christians and muslimss but the darfur is between muslims. in terms of terrorism, sudan does pose a threat, it does pose a problem. it has been on our list for a very long time. right now i think what we are going to see is potentially a split of sedan north-sow which will create an influx of

problems -- it is split of sudan. you can have potentially a war breaking out between north and south again and spoilers like eritrea playing a role, and ethiopia. and so it will become an area that will fester with potentially extremists who are taking advantage of the situation. host: westminster, maryland, leona on the democratic line. caller: [unintelligible] from nigeria because we are christians. the hausas from the north, the massacred the christians. -- they massacred the christians. the best thing for americans to

do is to divide the country into two biggest south and the north -- into two. at the south and north. we love each other. we are educated. who does not believe in education? they have good education -- would lead our own country. host: colonel? guest: again, another great point. i would go back and said that africans have to help africans and we need to follow up in trying to get them there. nigeria has a lot of will. that will wealth should be spent in the areas that are most needed -- nigeria has a lot of oil. that wealth should be spent in the areas that are most needed.

we can certainly help but the united states cannot save every country. we can facilitate, we can help, we can educate, but we don't have unlimited resources. host: any idea of the estimated number of terrorists in africa and/or terrorist groups? guest: not off the top of my head, no. it is very hard to gauge. a lot of unknowns in africa. when i talked about zuhel -- we don't know the exact numbers of a group called aqam and individuals across northern mali, niger, and mauritania, but i have seen estimates from a couple hundred, 1500, to 3000. host: 8 tweet from one of our viewers --

guest: no, there is no double dipping. yes, i'm retired. yes, i do draw retirement pay. i work for myself. i have my own company, white mountain research, wmrgrp.com. if anyone is interested -- host: what is it? guest: predominately i look at the threats. i focus on africa, parts of the middle least, provide analysis, in-depth analysis. in some cases i also support individuals or companies that need protection and apricot or need to find out before investing whether they should put $100 million in country x. before they do so i provide the analysis and give them an idea of what the threat level looks like. also i deal with counter-piracy off the coast of somalia. host: can you give an idea of

your company's our clients? guest: and mixed bag from private industry, at some of the shipping industries have asked for help because of the influx of piracy right now off the coast of somalia. private organizations that have conferences in, for instance, kenya. and also, at times, a u.s. government will ask for some assistance on certain issues. host: pittsburgh, pennsylvania on the republican line. tom, good morning. caller: i would like to comment on the speaker's approach to african terrorism. it is great to study all the details of this group and that group, and it is very important to gather this information, but the main thing i would like to see is an overall larger outrage -- any time there is a terror attack would take into

consideration the number of bombs, the number of people. and i think we as the superior western civilization who knows how to live this life are too blase. we should be outraged. exposed the terrorists for their destructive methods and psychotic kind of destruction. it is so easy to destroy -- what have they built? so i think you should take maybe a small country and experiment with information -- defused the information to the normal, thinking people, of how outrageous and psychotic these low creatures are able to carry out destruction. what have they built? show them this lifestyle is absolutely psychotic. guest: sure. i will use the example. i grew up 79 -- years of my life

in lebanon. i grew up in the war. i left in 1984. i listened to -- there is an old saying from lebanon where, they say if i give you and i love and i ask you to pay you can do it two ways -- you can read it open and take the pit out or take the island and put it in the right medium and over time you will appoint -- applied pressure and all of will pit itself. that is what we are going for. we are going for creating an environment where the people will eventually push out extremists because of weak constantly come in with a heavy handed approach of trying to take the extremists out, we're really not winning the hearts of the people. that is why i agree with general mcchrystal's approach, that if you win the population over you will win the fight, the battle against groups like al qaeda. host: los angeles on the independent line. good morning.

are you there? caller: good morning. i was from las vegas actually. are you still with me? my question was about eritrea -- i think you know all about eritrea and what is happening the post cold war years. we still have a lot of problems: one. but what i don't understand -- the administration and the eritrea, it's a dozen look good for some reason. and there is a lot of blame from the government and the u.s. blames eritrea is supporting some kind of somalian groups involved in al qaeda were

something. but do you think at all they can keep blaming -- this keep blaming each other has true sources on a book -- or blaming each other for no reason? can you explain what is going on? guest: sure. the ethiopia-eritrea dynamic is a bit complex and it goes back to the war between the two countries in 1998 through 2000. after that, there is a contested area between ethiopia and eritrea. both sides turned to the international community for help. the international community came in and signed an agreement called the algiers accord. the international community wanted to demarcate the border

but the contested area was given to eritrea. ethiopia said that was false based on old maps, so the tension continues. the problem is, the president of eritrea sometimes makes very difficult decisions for himself by involving him with and surging groups and extremist groups in order to go after ethiopia. in this case -- and there is a lot of truth that eritrea has supplied weapons and has provided training to this extremist group in somalia and then later on another group that was headed -- eritrea also receives weapons from iran. they do receive trainers from

iran and a half, weapons into somalia. what you have as a continued fight between ethiopia and eritrea, almost a proxy war going on, inside somalia. i strongly believe and have always advocated that if we can resolve this dispute between ethiopia and eritrea, i think we could bring a calming effect into the region because there is always -- eritrea is always medaling in countries like southern sudan, somalia, where radicand to poke at ethiopia. -- wherever it can to poke at ethiopia. unfortunately it is very difficult to deal with the president of eritrea. host: democrats line. go ahead. caller: my question is, i just want to ask the gentleman -- he talks about sudan. sudan guitarist country. i grew up in sevan.

osama bin laden could not be there if it is not terrorist. these people who are making problems, are in sudan. african islamic religion -- that is where a train of the terrorists. the radical and you got the was trained in sudan. i was in school there years ago. people penetrates south sudan -- we look the same, we have the same ethnic groups. .

guest: i honestly think that is going to create some big problems for us, but the caller is absolutely 100% right. sudan, khartoum, has been a mecca for extremist groups like the palestinian islamic jihad, or some of bin laden -- osama bin laden in khartou for am 1990 to 1996. it is a problem. i think government officials are working on it. i do not know if there is a eastridge solution in the long term, but we will see. host: thank you, sir. guest: thank you so much.

host: we will talk about president obama's statement during the state of the union address anbout the recent ruling by the supreme court. here is that moment, and we will talk about it for the next 20 minutes. >> with all due deference to separation of powers, last week the supreme court reversed a century of law that i believe will open the floodgates for special interests, including foreign corporations, to spend without limit in our elections. [applause] i don't think american elections should be bankrolled by america's most powerful interests. or worse, by foreign entities. they should be decided by the american people. host: president obama, during

wednesday night's state of the union address. we want to get your thoughts this morning. there are opinion pieces this month, articles as well, talking about that moment, in the newspapers. here is "politico" -- "dems cried in justice, senators the buyer's remorse for confirming alito, roberts. democrats say that just as a lead of crossed the line when he mouthed the words -- justice alito cross the line when he mouthed the words 'not ture', but worse -- 'not true,' but worse, they say, both roberts and alito misled them during the confirmation hearings." here is an opinion piece in "the

wall street journal," from the other side. "obama owes the high court an apology. this is not to deny that the supreme court may it be criticized. i do it regularly. so, too, should the president when he thinks the court is wrong. but not when the justices are in attendance as a courtesy to him, seated as a captive audience on a national television, while surrounded by hundreds of his political partisans. imagine if the president had been a guest in the house of commons when the british prime minister paul them out for failing to live up to his promises in copenhagen about imposing a carbon tax. the president fully expected that his hundreds of supporters would stand in share while the justices remained seated and silent, unable to respond even after word. moreover, the president's speech was only released 30 minutes

before the event, after the justices or already present." "the new york times" online is saying the justice alito was right on the substance issue, saying "not true" to how the president characterized the decision. but "the american prospect" on- line said that, but what i democracy, it is okay to -- "in democracy, it is okay to criticize public officials." good morning. caller: can you hear me clearly? host: we can. caller: excellent it might take on the dialogue between a twa jet went -- two in the two gentlemen here is that mr. president, if you do the research -- as political

campaign was funded by a special interests. goldman sachs is one of his sponsors, if you will. the whole political process -- the judges, the selection process -- everything is special interests. all of washington is special interests. that will talk of campaign funds not being funded by special interests is just pretty talk. once again, the american people are divided on party lines, went behind closed doors, there is no party lines. everyone works together, everyone works for their own special interests. the whole thing about special interests being funded -- the president himself, his political campaign was funded by special interests. host: john in the independent line in michigan. caller: good morning.

thank you for c-span and a forum it presents for conveyance of political plots. i tend to side with those who are quite taken aback by the opening up the floodgates with regards to corporate spending on campaign advertisements. it is interesting to me that following president obama's objection to the decision about with the possibility of big u.s. corporations and/or foreign entities being the finders of campaign ads -- funders of campaign ads, and following up saying elections should be decided by the american people -- well, yes, that is true. what is fox news. -- witness fox news.

in terms of accountability, with respect to advertisements that to get aired -- do get aired or printed or whatever the case may be, that it would be required that the person who funds the advertisement -- i mean person -- a -- [unintelligible] and b, it be required that the company or entity for her work -- for whom they work or are speaking for all be part of the disclosure. host: on companies participating in u.s. elections, it here is "the washington post."

"lost in the debate is that hundreds of foreign companies are already involved in presidential elections. donations linked to foreign firms have increased from $7.7 million in 2000 to nearly $17 million in 2008. some of the biggest players and the current health care reform debate, for example, include british drug maker's. such activity is illegal because the firms are incorporated in the night's -- such activity is legal because the firms are incorporated in the united states. the only caveat is that foreign personnel and money cannot be used in the efforts. the supreme court dramatically expanded the potential for abuse with the ruling, which would allow the domestic arm of a

foreign company to find direct attacks on political candidates from u.s. bank accounts, and in addition, the critics argue, the sec is hardly in a position to police the flow of money between firms and their foreign parents. many conservative finance experts and republicans accuse obama of mischaracterizing the majority opinion, which explicitly declined to address whether foreign individuals or associations were affected. critics also attacked the president's assertion that the supreme court reversed a century of law. it refers to a law banning companies of any kind from making direct contributions to candidates, which is undisturbed by the decision." next call. caller: good morning, greta. thank you for taking my call.

i hope you give me at least as much time as the other colors of cotton and i will honestly try to make it as brief as i can. i would like to expense of the deceased and before i make my point the reason people think -- like to explain something to see spent before i make my point the reason people think you have taken a hard right turn since the election -- i am a liberal -- but since the election of obama, you have taken a far right turn. the very first editorial your read -- i may have the name wrong -- randy bartlett -- host: barnett. caller: wasn't he a speechwriter for president bush? host: i don't know off the top

of my head. the first article i read was " democrats cried in justice." caller: it is my understanding that the congress and by the president to make this state of the union address. -- congress invites the president to make the state of the union address. if they do that, shouldn't they show him the respect? why would you read an editorial that is asking for an apology from the president of the united states to a supreme court justice? the editorial on its face conservative -- are the ones who constantly say "my president, right or wrong -- conservatives are the ones who constantly say, "my president, right or wrong," "if you don't like it, just leave," "why do you hate your country?" any time a democrat would

complain even in the slightest way -- the amount of disrespect shown by the justice shows a scary amount of self control. my children -- if my children behave that way for the president of the united states, they would've gotten punished by me. this decision has been absolutely corporatist. it is lunacy. it is beyond me. i really don't understand it is a nation of the people and by the people, not of the corporations and by the corporations and for the corporations. i really appreciate you letting me get my peace outbreed one more thing, real quick -- letting me get my piece out. one more thing, real quick trip to great american was lost a few days ago, howard izinn. it is nice -- it would be nice

to have some mention of that, especially since joyhhn yoo will be on the book tv this weekend. host: just to let you know, wheat balance of independence put out there so that people like you can -- we balanced different opinions put out there so that people like you to give opinions. we are letting you know what people in washington are reading this morning. it is not an endorsement of any one opinion. republican line, richmond, virginia couple aged. -- richmond, virginia. go ahead. caller: i listened to what the guy said. his analogy is pretty good. but you are discussing whether alito was respectful. as far as i'm concerned, it was just our reaction -- just a reaction.

joe wilson, the last guy who spoke up at one of these speeches -- he was a military man and was talking to the commander, and that was wrong. but when you discuss samuel alito, obama and alito -- from what i understand, they don't really care for each other -- not saying they don't like each other. but when you talk about corporate money, i think it is the best thing that ever happened. what we have had in america the last eight or 10 years, these religious groups that are taking over politicians, and all the craziness -- they have that the anti-abortion groups, the pro- abortion groups, the gay groups. companies are people that we work for. what happened really about 18651

to talk about slavery -- around 1865 when they talk about slavery -- it was fought about economics, not about freeing the slaves. people in america have to realize and make a judgment, and thank god for it c-span. are you still there? host: we are listening. caller: thank god for it c-span, because they have so many different opinions. i agree with the guy who just got to talking but companies run america, not these groups -- religious groups putting up all this money, a bunch in washington -- one more thing i got to say. host: i am going to be there

because we need it to get more forces. just to let you know, howard zinne will be on book tv this weekend. -- howard zinn will be on but to be this weekend. next up is indiana, good morning. caller: good morning. it is actually florida, at indiana. host: sorry. caller: that's ok. i actually think is the best thing that ever happened -- i am an independent, i don't have in this republican or democratic conversation. the men did tell the truth -- the man did tell the truth -- that is not true, they did not turn back something that is centuries old. the reason democrats are upset about this whole thing is that it put sunshine out there. the reason the mccain-feingold thing that was pushed through -- all that has done is create

pacs that are tax-exempt and get their money from anywhere and do not have to explain why they get the money from, then go up there and a lot and put up all of these advertisements. -- and they bought the a put up all of these advertisements. the money is still going to be the money. the only thing that changes is the way it is put into the campaign coffers. it is actually putting sunshine on it, where now you cannot hide behind 5427 groups -- 527 groups. that is great. the one thing they've missed in this old thing is that good americans who actually is paying for everything, as opposed to tax groups that are just centralized on one thing. this is actually a wonderful thing. i do think that president obama owes him an apology, and i did vote for him i will not do it again.

i was a first-time mistake and i will not be making the mistake again. -- that was a first-time mistake i will not be making the mistake again. host: vivian, austin, texas. caller: the next thing we will have is alito blubbering all over tv. i remember when it was "all the democrats, making his wife cry." they demonized blacks and american kids and a demonize everybody. corporations already have the media, and they will have money galore. let me point out to you people out there -- republicans always put catholics in judgeships. they don't put protestants' in there.

thank you, obama. i am like the other guy, i'm a liberal. i am not with obama all the time, but by god, corporations have way too much control. i think i might blubber, too. host: reuters is reporting that the pentagon is laying the ground for the repeal of the don't ask don't tell policy. also, "politico" is reporting this morning that president obama will skip the alfalfa dinner, which e-- the author of a club exists mainly for the purpose -- the alfalfa club exists mainly for the purpose of holding the dinner. he is missing this year's

dinner. "it will not be the first time he skipped out on an a-list event. he missed the first gridiron club dinner of the presidency last year." phil, you are the last phone call on this. caller: what people are missing about this whole thing is that there is a socialist attack against our system. president obama is showing no respect for the system of the supreme court. it seems to me that that is just a continuing theme in this whole administration. every socialist tool, every socialist in the world, has always attacked the independent judiciary and tried to put them in lockstep with their liberal agenda. this is a continuing effort by these socialist -- people of the socialist ilk to do that to our supreme court and court system. this -- supposedly in this

country, law and order is the main thing that has kept as independent and free. regardless of the exodus is -- regardless of the eccentricities of the individuals who run the country. when you start assaulting the system, you tear down the whole -- just like the russians did, just like lenin did, just like stalin did, just like hitler did. hitler attacked his judiciary. host: we will talk about suburbanite's facing poverty with elizabeth kneebone. we want to talk about a newly updated c-span classroom website. meredith rapp is the c-span education program specialist did what is the c-span classroom and what is its mission? guest: it is a free membership service for teachers designed to bring c-span programming and other materials into a class to help create an authentic learning center for students. host: meredith, why did c-span

decided to revamp the website? guest: greta, the last time we updated the website was in 2006, where we felt it was time to give a fresh website that showcases all of our resources and shows the technological advances that have occurred since 2006. host: what are some of the new features? guest: the layout allows us to show their resources that c-span classroom has. the video spectrum you see that allows the education team to access the liaison between the c-span class for members and the programming. we routinely look at programs that aired on c-span, and we look at and extract the ones that we think teachers can use and the custom, or if they want to a general information, and put it in that section. they are able to go in and i watch the program -- either watch the program, stream it

right there, or create their own video clips. for example, with the state of the union address, we have that on our page, and the teachers can go into the more information section and get information about that video and there is a share button to create their own a video clip. host: who can become a member of the web site, at how do they do that? guest: membership is free and it is open to all social studies teachers. they just need to go to our website, cspanclassroom.org, and at the top right corner, there is a link to register. another aspect we have is that teachers are in and and do not have time to watch rtos at a particular time, then we have a video clips that are created for teachers, along with discussion questions. they can find clips two ways. at the top of the web site,

there is a bar that you can click, a topic bar, and that as a whole list of topics where teachers can go in and find a video clips, on the president, federalism, economics. we have over 20 categories. or they can use our search function in that top right corner of the web site and put in anything that are looking for and it will come up with a list of the videos and video clips. >> go to c-spanclassroom.org. meredith rapp, thank you very much. joining us is elizabeth kneebone with the brookings institution. put out a report about the suburbanization of poverty. it is the fastest growing poor population in the country. why is that? guest: that is right, and that

is a marked shift that occurred over this decade. by 2008, the pace of growth of the poor population in the suburbs have outpaced the others by at least five times. it is compared to just about 5% growth in the cities. that fueled the change in the growth of american poverty. it can be due to a number of factors driving this trend. what is the overall population growth. -- one is the overall population growth. suburbs are adding people faster than cities. they are adding more poor people as well. another fact that we dealt with two economic downturns this ticket, one at the beginning of the decade and a more severe recession that we are emerging from today.

it can help contribute to, again, increases in property. host: who are, predominantly, the people that are moving to the suburbs? are they mostly low-wage workers? guest: this is a very region by region. can be a number of factors. -- this varies and by region, and can be a number of factors. they are moving to the suburbs -- jobs continues to be centralized. we see more job opportunities in the suburbs and you see people moving directly to the suburbs to pursue the opportunities. host: their earning on average -- their earnings on average -- do we know how much versus low- wage workers in the cities? guest: we are looking at overall where the poverty trends are moving.

with the first publication, it will be looking more into different demographic characteristics and drivers of these trends, including transportation, availability of affordable housing. these are the areas that can determine where people choose to work. host: you found that a city in texas is one of the -- a town in texas is one of the highest, going out to albuquerque, new mexico. we can show the list for our viewers as we talk about the implications of suburbanization of poverty. what are they? guest: again, this is a new shift in where americans are living. previously, a lot of the safety net services we developed alleviate poverty and connect people to jobs and support them and the work force. a lot of these services are concentrated in urban areas

around the country. it is true that urban poverty remains a challenge, but it is important to track these kinds of trends, because the growing population in the suburb is going to place an additional challenge on the scene at that may not be as well developed. -- additional challenge on the safety net that may not be as well developed. as people are looking for jobs and opportunities to access to employment opportunities, where the services to employ those efforts? and also, are they connected? are they close to job opportunities that can help them work their way out of party? hos -- out of poverty? host: what is the impact on the suburban cities -? guest: they're seeing an increase in demand for the services and at the same time seeing cutbacks from the state governments. everybody is on a tight budget

these days. they're trying to do more with less. people are facing reduced wages and long spells of unemployment, less work hours. that is affecting the overall bottom line and ability to make ends meet and putting an additional stress on the safety net that was already fairly strain. host: what about affordable housing in general in the suburban areas? guest: that is a challenge. if poor people are moving to the suburbs, isn't that a positive thing? it can be if they are moving to areas of opportunity. but that is not always the case. with affordable housing or people can -- people can afford to live, if that is in one area and jobs are in another -- we need to have a more comprehensive strategy for regional growth moving forward.

host: where is the concentration of suburban property -- suburban poverty? guest: where we have seen particularly the highest increases are the midwestern metro areas, which over this decade had a face so many challenges economically, particularly those that have been specialized in order manufacturing and related industries. -- in auto manufacturing and related industries. that has been hit particularly hard. they are feeling this third increase in poverty rates in those suburbs. host: topping this list is hartford, connecticut. does that this time in with your suburbs with the highest poverty rates? -- does this list tie in with her suburbs with the highest poverty rates? guest: the primary city

residents are still more than 2.5 times more likely to live in poverty in the primary cities in these regions, whereas suburbs on the whole of lower than average poverty rates. that reflects a different development pattern over time, where in the south there is it smaller disparity between the suburban poverty rates. city poverty remains a big challenge in these areas. host: mc allen, texas, the city with the highest poverty rate, but also on the list of the suburbs with the highest poverty rate. guest: what my question. to the top the list is if there are demographic -- might push. to the top of the list is if there are -- might push an area to the top the list is if there are demographic patterns, and is the job more likely to pay a lower wage.

host: first phone call, chicago on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. in your numbers, do you also equate -- in the suburbs here and down south and west -- do you equate the illegal immigration with this aspect? you have the port battling for social services but illegal immigrants -- htthe poor battling for social services with illegal immigrants. how do you account for that? guest: i would point to the fact that this will be a contribution of a number of factors to these trends. one of which can be population dynamics, in migration versus out migration. it will affect the overall population dynamics. as to what kinds of jobs people are working what sort of which

is are being paid in the area -- and what sort of wages are being paid in the area, that will have the biggest impact on of these trends. host: democratic line. caller: good morning, how were you? host: doing well. what is your question or comment? caller: i kind of agree with what that person said from chicago. how can you not talk about gentrification? i don't understand why the guy from chicago did not mention that. host: he is talking about gentrification. guest: depending on the reason people are moving, sometimes with housing prices becoming less affordable to live, people may bypass the communities because there are not affordable by an options.

there is clearly more at work here. the fact that we've had two major downturns this decade, and economic circumstances -- working americans are facing lower wages and bigger challenges through the general economy, not just the population dynamics. host: new york, republican line. caller: i live in affordable housing in clarence, new york, a very wealthy town. i moved here five years ago. the whole thing about -- they had done a moratorium on building in clarence because it was growing so fast. the only way they could do any expansion was to do it under the guise of affordable housing, because they did not really have any affordable housing in this town. i have lived here five years.

the rent goes up every year. it was $358 a month for rent when i moved in, now it is $400. this october it will be $410 or more. we are not getting any services -- like our roads are not getting paid to read the expected date are doing -- like our roads are not getting paved. but the new expansions are getting everything. there are manufactured homes here and someone that are not affordable -- and so on that are not affordable housing. we are paying for them, to have the roads paved and everything like that. i think affordable housing is being taken advantage of by some corporations and companies, and they are making money off of it. host: any thoughts on that?

guest: the experience the caller has had is something a lot of americans can relate to, which is that family meet income -- family media incomes are declining but the costs of living are increasing. in terms of how to integrate our planning for affordable housing with infrastructure and job development really underscores the importance of keeping these things together and looking for more sustainable growth moving forward as we come out of this recession in a way that benefits families and workers and residents throughout the region. host: west virginia, independent line. caller: thank you for this opportunity. i would like to ask, what exactly are the criteria for determining property that you use? and also, the time frame -- for

determining poverty that you use? and also, the time frame -- was it done decade by decade, year by year? also, i would like to say that i want people to keep in mind that there is a big difference between charleston, west virginia, and the suburbs around here. i am from jersey, and it gets real rural real fast. it is true of metro detroit and a lot of other places -- albuquerque, for example. albuquerque is a sprawling place. in pittsburgh there is this move -- watch pittsburgh and allegheny county go at it. the great urban center gets

absorbed by the counties to remain viable. guest: on the first question in terms of how we study poverty, what do we mean when we say poor, we are using the federal poverty line, which is the same across the country absolute measure of income -- which is the same across the country. it varies by family and it is an absolute measure of income. we studied this from 2000 to 2008, and we made a particular look at 2007 to 2008, capturing the first year of the great recession, and what impact this economic downturn might have on poverty. we did find while poverty is up from 2000 to 2008, it has also been up significantly just in the first year of the recession,

and there were even greater job losses in 2009 and we expect the trend to continue. host: i think the caller is also wondering how you define the suburbs, because a suburb can be different in various parts of the country. guest: this is very true. not all suburbs in terms of -- not all suburbs are the same in terms of industry, economic mix, a housing expert use the office of management and budget definition of -- use the office of management and budget definition, defining regional labor -- labor, regional economies. you work with that definition, -- we work with that definition, and we take the no. 1 hub in the

area, and then the suburbs make up the rest of the metro area outside of the city. if you are interested to know what kind of counties we might be talking about, or what qualifies as a city or suburb in your region, go to our website. we have one-page profiles for the market metro areas. host: for our radio listeners, that website is brookings.edu. toni is joining us on the democrats' line. caller: i want to say one thing -- it is really man-made. in the african-american community, what they do is make a red line. you cross the street, you are in a different price category.

it is man-made. what we have to do is treat people equally. people are the same. guest: we talked about the disparities we saw in cities versus suburban party and northeast and midwest metro areas -- suburban at poverty and northeast and midwest metro areas. with these lending practices, this may be some residual effect. these disparities are narrowing over time and it is becoming a challenge shared across the region. host: new jersey, republican line, harold. caller: good morning. very, very interesting. i have been reading a book called "the end of poverty" by

geoffrey = -- jeffrey sachs. i agree with the last caller, this is a man-made problem, also a moral problem, also deterioration of the family. the book i got came from americorps. if we had over 100,000 people on americorps, they are counted as being poor, and they give them food stamps, they give them a medicaid, and they give them this book. essentially, it is fiction, and nevertheless, what the government is doing, it seems to me, is they are using americorps for political purposes like acorn and all the rest of it. it is very, very sad. obviously, we should do is

eliminate poverty. this guy came from the same place as obama, i think columbia and harvard. these are fictional schools -- they teach fiction. objective truth -- truth is obviously in the eyes of the holder -- host: 10 i jump in and ask you to ask a question? guest: the other thing -- caller: the other thing is why is the government cooking the books? guest: one. to clarify -- one point clarified -- there have been a lot of discussions over the poverty measure, at a standard set across the country regardless of whether you live in alabama or new york, you are

subjected to the same measurement. it has given us a consistent measure over time to see how changes have taken place in the community. but there is a lot of discussion of what should we reform this so that we are acknowledging that people receive benefits through housing or through the tax code -- the earned income tax credit is the largest party alleviation in the country, but it is not capped -- largest poverty alleviation in the country, but it is not captured here. we should take into account things that really affect economic well being. host: one of those is cost of living. guest: that is right. one of the things they want to improve is that there is no cost-of-living adjustment. that is one way they could make adjustments to more accurately reflect each place's experience. people might say that we are capturing, perhaps, in some

areas, the places with lower wages and lower cost of living -- maybe this is overestimating poverty, and other places it is under estimating. host: lois is joining us on the independents' line from knoxville, tennessee. caller: i have a short comment, and it has to do with poverty in the suburbs and poverty in the urban areas, and then i had a quick question. if we could instill in our kids not to waste your education -- the main thing is that kids think is not cool to receive or been -- urban or suburban -- if you do not waste the free,

wonderful education you're getting, whether it is urban or suburban, and prove you are trying to excel, i think kids would understand poverty is not cool. my second comment and question is having the experience of having grown up in chicago in the 1970's, born and raised, hong out close to housing projects -- hung out as the housing projects -- you touched on something interesting, transportation. what about spending stimulus money on transporting kids -- what about having transportation to the kids and these projects that what to work -- for the kids in these projects that want to work? a government ban coming to pick up -- government van in to pick up kids who want to do decent work?

guest: transportation is a critical component of getting access to jobs and to where the jobs are going . with the poverty growing in the suburbs, that may be an additional challenge it is the public transit available -- that may be an additional challenge. is there public transit available? the people have adequate transportation access to actually take advantage of those opportunities -- that is a very critical policy point. host: aspect is a high-speed rail. president obama yesterday talked about $8 billion investment in high-speed rail. it is a topic we will look at on saturday during "washington journal." republican line, charles. good morning. caller: i have a couple of things i noticed, and that a quick quip.

when i went to school in the 1970's in arkansas, urban always suggested city and rural suggest to the country, and suburban was somewhere in the middle. there was a red line and on the east side -- it was all the universities there, and in arkansas in the 1970's, it was de -- it was divided between north little rock and baraclittle rock, and the twainr met. i find it hard to apply these specific terms one, too, and three across the country. guest: i would urge anybody who

wants to see how we treat urban and suburban in the study to visit the web site and look at for each metro. what that means. -- each metro area what that means. this is the first in a series of publications in future studies, we will be looking at high- density suburbs, and other communities, and we're looking at how the early impact of the recession is playing out in cities and suburbs across the country. the numbers are growing at the fastest rate in the lower- density urban communities. this is something we want to continue to document and explore, how these are playing out. host: judy, you are next in pennsylvania. caller: the reason i'm calling is because i am from the urban

area, and my husband works for the housing authority. they went by the measured income level, but i have noticed this started putting these $400,000, $500,000 homes, and people that were only making light $50,000 were moving into them. why couldn't they build single homes where people were able to afford these payments on mortgages? host: the housing bubble and the ties to the report. guest: for local and regional policy makers on the ground to think about, in terms of -- especially now that we are emerging from the recession -- try to find a way to have

sustainable growth moving forward. housing plays into how we achieve growth moving forward. i definitely don't think we want be unsustainable bubble that we saw in the past decade, but what is the model for each region in terms of achieving sustainable long-term growth? host: mary on the republicans' line in kentucky, you are next. caller: i would like to compliment you on the way you have handled things this morning. host: thank you. caller: i really think you've done a great job. i appreciate the dignity and professionalism you have showed. the poverty level we have here -- it is a rural area and there is no way of getting a rail station out here or anything

like that -- and how do we compare to other areas? guest: we looked at smaller metropolitan area transit and rural trends as well -- area trends and rural trends as well. we have seen the poverty increase over this decade and that is a challenge for these regions as well. in rural kentucky, the transit line probably is not the answer, but what are the other transportation options you could consider or quickly -- you could consider for job opportunities that may be growing more quickly. host: larry on the independent'' line. caller: i have a couple of questions for the gas. what affect does she think the

spending freeze that is supposed to be proposing is going to help us on poverty? i also want to ask -- what affect does she think it would have on poverty and the investment in america if we took away -- if we stopped spending to $300 billion that we spent in iraq and afghanistan, these wars, and invest in infrastructure and our people. i understand that health care is $100 billion a year. if you look at what we spent in these other countries and building their infrastructure, the things we should be doing in our country, it is ridiculous. host: larry, i think we got your point. guest: clearly, having more money to spend in these areas

-- everybody would want that, to do more with more. but we're facing a lot of constraints right now, in terms of the federal budget, but also at the local level. this is why there is an opportunity moving forward at the regional level. i think we would encourage policymakers and agencies, service providers working in this area, to see how they can coordinate across boundaries, cities and suburbs alike, at to see what is available, candidate a line for more efficient delivery services -- can they align for more efficient delivery services, because it is not likely will have an influx of cash anytime soon. host: wisconsin, on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning, ladies. i want to thank you for addressing this today. i have a comment and question. my comment is that most of the

programs we're talking about, or services that is offered, our government -- are government programs and services, and there are tax codes which is also interested in jobs, -- entrenched in jobs, at entrenched in everything, when it comes to poverty, that anybody who is poor not make it out of it because of the system. take a public housing section, transportation. in the public housing section, at any time you want a bigger community built up, you usually have another problem, and the transportation. now, i understand that president barack obama said that he is going to invest in high-speed

trains and that type of thing. here in wisconsin, we are fighting with other countries regarding the transportation, them being in on a high-speed rail -- they don't want poor people coming into their community to take those jobs. host: do you have anything to add to that? guest: just to underscore how right it is that all of these things are connected. as all of these things working together to make a region function and grow, this is something that moving forward, although it is complicated, it is important for policy-makers to be thinking about these things cohesive and from a regional perspective to make sure that wherever the jobs are growing, or of the population is moving, that there is a connection moving forward to keep people working. host: long beach, mississippi, you are the last phone call.

caller: i don't know if this was mentioned, but to me, the main thing that should be emphasized with poverty is control. i come from a catholic family and the pope told the it was a sin but he never sent you a check. everything has turned around completely. even in america, when people have good income, you don't need more than two children. you see in haiti, people have 10 to 20 children. as no surprise that they cannot get ahead. host: when you look at the poor in the suburbs, did you look at the family size of the poor people, the low-income people? guest: in this study, no. wheat straw to look at the number of individuals who are -- we start to lead looked at the number of individuals who

are portrayed -- strictly looked at the number of individuals who are poor. with services for working families that they are trying to make to get these jobs, it is up challenge for working families with children. host: elizabeth kneebone, one as the next report come out? guest: this spring there will be a report on how the recession is playing out in these regions, and that will be in march. host: what does your group do? guest: the metropolitan policy program? we look at a number of different issues around country, equality, to jobs, it to transportation. and how the trends are playing out in the places people live. host: elizabeth kneebone, thank you for your time this morning. that does it for