>> he was the single most important figure in jazz in the 20th century. >> on his new biography of louis armstrong 8 8:00 p.m. eastern and pacific on c-span. tonight, the history of executive power. john yoo talks about his quote and with a former assistant attorney general on afterwards -- on "after words." >host: our guest is senator byron dorgan. david drucker is one of our two questioners. and the financial correspondent for politico. we are taking this on friday

afternoon after an extraordinary meeting between the president and house gop members. it was televised live, and scrap this session for the president. much of it was about partisanship or our partisanship. in this town at this time, is partisanship possible to? -- our partisanship possible? -- bipartisanship possible? guest: are sure wrote this is able to be changed, because it is intensely partisan. when george w. bush was elected, i invited him to, meet with the democrats. he came, and we have a good exchange. it was polite and respectful. i am pleased president obama decided to go and was invited at the republican caucus.

i did not give the chance to see all of it, but it is the right thing to do. need to build bridges here. in this intense partisanship is not good for the political system, the way of governing. the american people see it and say, you know what? we pay your salary is three and we send you there to do good things. why cannot find a way to find common purpose? the only way the system works is to compromise -- through compromise. host: one of the things being discussed is more sessions like this, and the model of the british parliament. guest: 11 suggestion that there even be of question period in our government to date there have been suggestions that there even be a question period in our government. how would that be structured? more and more interaction with

the president and the congress and more interactions with the joint caucuses, where we sit around and talk, not as the democrats in this room and republicans in that room, and we talk about the need to do in the country. >> turning to the issue of jobs. president and live and die by the unemployment rate in this country. they campaigned for office suggesting they could fix the economy. presidents do not have as direct control over the you have unemployment rate is they would like to suggest. i wonder what you think about this white house's ability to affect unemployment between now and the important election coming up? guest: it is marginal. our describe the ship of state and the engine room. people believe if you push the right hon and energy buttons and levers and get all the right tax

credits, the ship of state will run just fine. it is not a simple. in my judgment, it is about confidence. if they are confident, people buy a home, by sue, take a trip. if they are not confident, in a defer purchases -- there are limited opportunities for the president. the leaders to not exist for them to pull that lever and millions of people are put back on apparel. but you can at the margins and stimulate in incentivize. the president has spoken about the needs for a and wage and tax credit, the jobs credit. you should put that out there and say, if you're is the amount of money, first come, first serve. those businesses who want his and, that extra incentive will allow them to hire more people.

it is certain between now and the end of this year, and there is no leader to pull the wool pulled massive -- would put people back to work. >> how can washington improved consumer confidence? we had a 5% gdp number on friday, which is good, but the more you talk about holland and well -- how well the economy is doing, and the more than that they are attached from reality. guest: the investment banks are the first ones to show record profits and talk about paying record bonuses. people are furious about a lot of things, including, especially that. they see the economy growing 5.7% last quarter and they say, but we have unemployment at 10%. it might go higher. i think it is really important

for people to see the president and congress work hard and to give confidence to the american people. have got to be demonstrated that we understand the difficulties shear -- a fiscal policy that is not sustainable. the president is criticized a lot for saying, i inherited a substantial nest. but that is the truth. he inherited the biggestw3 economic mess since roosevelt and hear it in harmony with economic freefall. -- inherited an economy which would free fall. >> senator, in light of the, as you just may, explain realistically how much as of the president's control. , to maybe out of congress's control when it comes to creating jobs? describe to me the prospects

that a whatever jobs bill, congress -- comes out of congress will have a major affect on creating new jobs, reversing been month over month, at least no net job creation. will it have an effect? guest: i think so. the government does not create jobs. the private sector creates jobs, especially small to medium-sized businesses. is there a set of government policies that creates this creation -- supports the creation of those jobs? what we should do and probably should have done long ago, talking about a year ago, is begin the process of financial reform. to say, and we will fix the system at the top, the financing system that was involved in an unbelievable in gambling and agreed and steered the country into a ditch.

if we are serious about seeing we will fix the, the american people will gain confidence and say, they will fix this problem. we need to do that. we need to pass a jobs-. we can, on the margins, with the wage tax credits, and we can incentivize people at to be hired and put back on payro lls. >> with an election coming up, how important is it for the senate and the house to act on the job skills? guest: i think it should abandon the priority a year ago. -- should have been a priority a year ago. i think health care is very important, who is a significant part of the economy. what takes precedence over that is the american people senior

government deciding to repair of this economy and putting people out to work. senator dorgan and die aren't working together to put together a jobs proposal -- senator dur bin and i are putting together a jaws proposal. -- a jobs proprosal. host: an "the washington post" has a story. "you get this schizophrenic message coming out of the administration and congress. you might hear them say the land, land, land, and then crack down on acres. and bankers to hunker down." guest: the discussion of of acres in this country, the biggest commercial banks and the biggest banks, they could have

just put a craps table or keynote paid in their lobby. -- keno pit and their lobby. they are gambling. a community banks were not involved in that period had most of them took deposits and made loans -- those community banks took deposits and made loans. i am talking about the indian banks that steered this country into a ditch. -- the big banks that steered the country into a ditch. i predicted we would see massive tax appear bailouts. -- taxpayer bailouts. we want to make sure that banks do not go too far.

medium-size businesses that are ready to expand -- we want to encourage our banking industry to take all look and provide credit for them. the biggest banks are not doing that. they are back are in derivatives and playing their games which a synthetic derivative is which means there are no values on side. >> the president made health care of his signature in 2009. was that a mistake? guest: i think so. not because health care is not important, but the timing was not good. you need to reach as high as you çcan reach an order to put together -- something they can get through congress.4++ çlet's work exclusively on restarting the economic engine.

the president will say he was working on that is well. i would've said the economy first and health care later. his position is, you cannot fix the economy without fixing health care. there is some truth to that. you can create a menu of health care changes. >> as you put together thisç jobs bill, the central political idea isç creating jobs on one hand and not reading did adding to the deficit on the other. -- and not getting to the deficit on the other. which is more important -- and adding jobs or not adding to the deficit? guest: both are important. healthcare is a cost of one trillion dollars in tenures at a time when you have unsustainable

fiscal budget. in october, she would have added 1.2 trillion dollar deficit, having done nothing carry the of the fiscal policy at the moment -- and we have a fiscal policy of the moment it has to be fixed. we are going to put america back on track with respect -- and we do have to work on it jobs. there is a tension there because it cost some money. we will find savings and ways to funds in a wage tax credit. >> are you supportive of the leadership exploring, moving a final health care package through in reconciliation. does that complicate your efforts to focus on jobs? guest: that is a great question. there is a lot of discussion

going on about and what is needed for health care. we have a pause going on right now. a reassessment of what is happening. there are limited opportunities to find a way to salvage some parts of the health care bill. you mentioned a couple of them. one is a reconciliation. i do not know exactly what will happen. there is a lot of discussion at the white house and in congress. we will see in the next and we are so whether some mechanism can be used to find a way to pass health care that could have perhaps even some bipartisan support. >> senator max baucus was looking at doing a markup and some committee hearings on the jobs front. what are the internal to light

in terms of -- figuring you might get some republican votes, but enough unity within the majority? guest: t(senator kerry reed fees strongly we should move on a jobs bill. -- harry reid feels we should move on a jobs bill. senator baucus is important. we met and we could go and talk about the common elements. maybe we could move a larger package or a smaller package. in one way or the other,ç senar harry reidqç is intent on gettg a jobs bill. hostthe massachusetts election s a shocker. no question about that. çprobably toç the three of yos well. i think no one predicted that massachusetts would be of great problem.

kennedy held that seat for many decades. it was a great senator. i was privileged to work with him. we expected to seek to be filled by a democrat. the fact is, we are already -- all temporary occupants. in many ways, it is a wake-up call. i]çthe american people and the people of massachusetts want to send a message. i think all those understand that message, perhaps more now than before. we have to get fiscal policy in( order. we have to find ways to get people back to work and give them confidence about the future of this country. >>ç ççtalking about massachu, hereç comes the president obama and with a massive majority in the house in 2009.

he has said all the popularity in the world. he could not get health care done. he could not kitcat and trade. he could not give financial reform. -- he could not get cap trade. if he could not get them done before, how could you get them done now? guest: ççfirst of all, we hado corporation on anything. even on noncontroversial bills,ç we have the final closure to shut off a filibuster on the motion to proceed. it takes you two days so you could have the vote. after the vote, if the minority insists, and they have already insisted, you get 30 hours before you can have a vote to get to a bill. it is unbelievable to me. we have had over 100 filibusters

this year, requiring quote sure positions -- requiring cloture. that is the republican side in the senate. those are not the jury that is not my judgment. those are the facts. it is like walking through a wet cement to try to get to where you want to goç. you talk about big things that have not beenç done, this congress has accomplished a fair amount. and we admit, it has been hard goingt(. they have a bicycle forç two pedaling up hill. issues, is in washington fundamentally broken? can we expect any major legislation passed? guest: i do not think it is

irretrievably broken. people are sending a lot of importantç messages to say, and give your act together, both of you. i think the american people are saying to both political parties, be on your guard. i hope that we will turn to the jobs initiative. its incorporation into the right thing. financial reform. put things in place to make sure that it does not happen again. stop excessive speculation in gambling with the people's money. i hope we can make some progress and expect some bipartisan cooperation to address those issues. >> to what extent does the perception of the -- in the country of the agenda of house

democrats have an effect of what might be a tough reelection race for you? the people of north dakota work consistently confident in your leadership. the polls are now showing it possible tough race 3, to that is your fault in terms of how you voted? -- how much of that is your fault in terms of how you voted? guest: i decided not to seek another term. i prepared and thought about that. i served in the congress in 30 years. i have seen a lot of people say you're too long. -- stay here too long. i was trying to decide, seven more years? this year, plus six more? i have other things i want to do and i made the decision this was the intersection for me to get

off. i and then an elected office for 40 years. i started when i was 27 years old. 18 years in the u.s. senate. oppressed person asked me, do you think you have betrayed your after four years, i do not think so. -- after 40 years, i do not think so. i won election to the u.s. house çof representatives in 1980 ina red states and north dakota during the reaganç landsç lide. for me, the questionç is 30 yes in united states congress and this opportunity to do some other things in my life. >> çyou want in 1980, a great year for republicans.

-- you won in 1980. the climate was clearly different. i am looking to get your opinion on what it is so tough for democrats. guest: your like a political meteorologist. ççóyou will be asking if the republicans will survive for a year ago. 12 months from now, who knows? it is hard to predict the political climate six months, letejjátççççs3mçi] can om now. ?;çoç[koy3o believe that things are born to be tough this fall, or tough in november like they are in january. host: a dead panel formed by eight -- can a debt panel formed by executive order and work?

guest: if we had a panel or commission that was a legislative -- and we fell short of getting 60 votes. but it fell short. the president will do it administratively. supported. ç>>ç t(çtheçó president haves on friday in terms of small business taxes and other things to incentivize business is it to carter. the thing that is where we are headed? -- to incentivitze business to hire. guest: i think there will be some of the. at. if you can put together a program and put a lot of kids to work in the summer, in which we will do with respect to other kinds of incentives, putting people on payroll, tax

incentives are another way. that is most likely to garner support. >> what are you looking for in terms of a tea leaf to read between now and november in terms of jobs? guest: gdp road is nice to read about but it does not translate into people being rehired. >> in terms of what the president meant in the state of the union address in what he would like to see in the jobs bill. and you expect to see those and bullet points in the senate bill? guest: a number of them were very good recommendations. i expect a good many of those will find their way into this bill. çi hope we can find republican support, because we have to work

together. if there is anything we ought to agree on is that there is no social program as important as a goodxd job that pays well. we need to create new jobs through incentives. >> does that mean scaling down theç bill in making sure it is more targeted? guest: we are not committed to any size are any specific sets of proposals. we hope it would stimulate more employment and give american families and opportunity. host: this time next year, and what would you like to look back on tuesday that that made this a successful year? guest: financial reform and a jobs package that will result in some type of success. if we have done financial reform that gives people confidence, if we fix that and say, never

again. we will have done something that i think is very important for the country. i think the american people to recognize that. host: we are back with david drucker. after speaking with senator arlen dorgan who is leaving congress this year, we talked about job skills, a financial reform and the political climate. çwhat do you both see from washington about the political climate and weather is possible to give major pieces of legislation through this year? guest: i have to ask him whether they can accomplish anything. i do come back to this point, they could not do with a majority in the senate and a hugely popular president. and they will have a difficulty accomplishing anything in an election year.

it will be a tough year. host: and what is the relationship between house and senate democrats this year? guest: as of right now, not very good. they are taking shots at each other. çóthe fact that the bill died in thew3 senate with scott brown's election. they feel as tho house democrats cannot appreciate the position of senate democrats. marymç landrau çsaid last weet she does not think the president or house democrats understand why it theç democratic party hs a majority in the senate. they elected democrats from red states. these democratic senators have to take into account a broad constituency who are not in lockstep with the constituency in sampras's coach. -- constituency in san

francisco. you might see this this update or you might see the animas increase. host: he said that all of washington should take heed. are the republicans also seeing that this is not a message that the republicans are ascendant? guest: r.j. john boehner understands that we are not -- they see it as clearly as an opportunity for them to capitalize on some of the state's. an interesting moment from this interview was when we asked senator dorgan any thought about the president's decision to push health care.

he said he thought it was a mistake. there was an interesting comment from a veteran political figure. host: understanding party politics, it -- if it is a message that a country is feeling anti-washington, is it to find ways to work together? guest: it is an election year. you will see more partisanship. and something like a jobs bill, something where it is politically beneficial to qcompromise, you can see that. on almost every other issue, it will not happen. republicans are trying some in gains in november. there is no political motivation to help the majority. i think what you might see from the house republican leadership in d.c. a little bit of it from senate republicans is an attempt to triangulate and tuesday, we would like to work with the