tv Q A CSPAN February 1, 2010 6:00am-7:00am EST
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how to play. i was a music major in college, journalism, and then i played jazz professionally in kansas city for several years before i decided i was a better writer than i was a musician. and i've never questioned the decision to be a writer, but i still miss making music. i don't think you ever really get over that. >> 8 years old, the first time you heard louis armstrong. >> that would have been 1964, because it was on the ed sullivan show. . o
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performances so he could study them and perfect them. but then, when tipper orders were new and people first got their hands on them, they wanted to play with them. he started leading his tape recorder on the dressing room and hotel rooms to tape conversations. he would do a little mark radio show and things like that. he taped his radio and television interviews. we have those interviews. mostly, he taped conversations and he saved them. they ended up in the attic of his house in queens, new york. they made their way along with his personal effects to what became the armstrong archives at queens college. they were a treasure trove. there were conserve and transferred to compact disk. they were indexed. i came to the front door and i was the first biographer to have access to these tapes after they were made available for researchers. >> year?
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>> that would have been four or five years ago? / >> what made you think you could do a biography of louis armstrong? >> that will nine years ago. i was out at queens college and writing a piece about the centenary and the armstrong house. the curator -- i was in the middle of working on my h.l. mencken book. three years later, it was the first night of the h.l. mencken book tour and that was around the corner at a hotel, speeches, radio, tv. it was like a bolt of lightning. i thought," louis armstrong."
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>> i thought about it the next morning i called my agent and i knew with the next book should be. this was it. >> how many hours did you listen to those tapes? >> can't even tell you. it was a lot but you lose county after a -- you lose count after a while. the tapes had been completely index. ed. i look at an index entry and
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that gave us a description of the track. in one of those fishing expeditions i found a tape in which louis armstrong talks at the dinner party about getting in trouble with characters in chicago in 1930-1931. he had never done this and any published source. that was a great factual find. >> is this a case of where the tapes sit there and nobody paid attention until you came along? >> everybody knew about the tapes. but because they have been left in an attic for years, most of us assumed since they were real to reel tapes that that would not be playable. they were all playable. it was a matter of transferring them digitally. it was perfect timing on my part that i came along when i did. scholars are now starting to work with the tapes.
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michael cogswell at the art cause tells me how relatively few people listen to the tapes. -- at the archive tells me how relatively few people listen to the tapes. >> you spent five years at the h.l. mencken library doing what? >> i was writing a primary source biography on him. i had been reading h.l. mencken since high-school. h.l.çó mencken left behind a vey large cache of autobiographical manuscript that were sealed for a long time after his death. that is what stimulated me to read the book about him. >> how manyçóñi hours did you sd
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in that room? >> i spend 10 years working on the books. during the main. but i was working on it, i would come down to baltimore most weekends and spent a three-day weekend pretty much always in the h.l. mencken room. you could set up shop there. i brought my first laptop computer when they were larger to work on that book. they to me it was the first laptop ever brought in to the h.l. mencken room. i was 20 feet away from his first typewriter which was a little bitty the aroma that was a century old. -- corona that was a century old.
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>> i used that "on my stump speech on the book tour. it is one of my favorite quotations. >> how much to the folks in the cultural world impact politics in the country? >> louis armstrong had a real impact on politics. he was not a political man himself. he was involved -- he was not involved in race relations. he was one of the very first black people but white people all over the country tend to respect and love. through his art, per performing and films and on television, and although he was not an activist in the conventional sense, that contribution to race relations
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in america is powerful as just about anything anybody else did in the 1940's and 1950's. >> h.l. mencken was the prototype of the moderate op-ed columnist. he was the man wrote whom the idea of what we think of as an opinion column is crystallized. his track record as a political prognosticator was fairly pitiful, he had a great deal to do with creating the way that we think about politicians, the skepticism that we bring to discussions in columns. i don't think he had any kind of direct role on the political process itself. although, he was one of the first people to cover political conventions. >> we have a videotape of
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youtube. google books has some of your material. did they pay for that? >> know. no. >> they have a bit from this end -- h.l. mencken book. >> i used googled books in researching the louis armstrong book. the copyright and compensation issues are very serious. i was a party to some of the preliminary litigation about the google books. my literary agent is one of the people who has been objecting most strongly. i think that will have to be worked out more fully before people are prepared to go along
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>> how did they think they could go along with this and why did the libraries cooperate? >> it was to the libraries' advantage to cooperate. i think google assumed that if they do this on a sufficiently large scale that people would not think much about the extent to which the original long-term rights were affected. i want material to be available but i think that copyright is important. but of the rights of authors should be compromised by settlement to destroyed. >> there's a vast amount of material and we will show something we found from youtube. we don't know the man's name to be interviewed but it is from
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cfpl television in canada. this is 1956. have you seen this? >> i don't know yet. >> it leaves into a discussion about the race issue. >> satchmo, i believe you expressed a desire to play along -- behind the iron curtain? >> it is up to local sen. it is rough over there. i don't think we can deliberately go over there. we would like to just below, the man with the trumpet. it would be appreciated in any language if uncle sam said to go there tomorrow, we would be right there. >> on a recent trip to england, you shattered protocol by saying
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you would play a song on for princess margaret. what was her reaction to that? >> [unintelligible] she dug that jive. >> did the crowd react? >> they were thrilled and the house came down. they loved the music as we played it. >> which louis armstrong are you seeing there that you knew? >> that is a public armstrong. it is important to say that the public courtroom israel. he is not a mask.
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he was a lovable man. the private armstrong was capable of speaking with much more sharpness about race relations in particular but many at -- other issues, as well. i have seen this clip and i think it must have been filmed in the late 1950's. this is just before he has the blowout with president eisenhower. he was talking to the state department about the possibility of touring the soviet union. >> you quoted the associated press and said the trumpet player louis armstrong said last night that he had given up plans for sponsored trip to the soviet union. he said president eisenhower had no guts a described the governor of arkansas as an uneducated
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plowboy. >> that is not what he really said. he is like every other thinking person in america and like black people in the dark things that the direction was going for it for those who do not remember what happened arkansas, in little rock, the governor refused to cooperate with brown vs. board of education and allow the desegregation of public schools. president eisenhower hesitated to take action against the governor. at this moment, louis armstrong is touring in grand rapids or
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some place in the northern midwest. a cub reporter who is still with us was on his first big assignment and the talk to -- he taught the editor -- he taught to the editor to go interview louis armstrong. he talked the room service waiter into him bringing of louis armstrong's dinner. he said his favorite artist was been crossed the prbeing crosby.
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louis armstrong had a temper. he was furious with the president of united states this time. he spoke with the utmost frankness and with very, very strong language about eisenhower and the secretary of state and most particularly, about the governor of arkansas. for a cub reporter, this was the story of a lifetime. the story is unprintable. he sat down with louis armstrong and they figure that euphemisms to use in place of the obscenities. they came up with on educated plowboy. zçó
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he was like every other thinking person in america and was very disturbed by the direction in which things were going. for those that do not remember what happened in arkansas, the governor refused to cooperate with brown worst -- brown vs. board of education and allowed the desegregation in public schools. president eisenhower hesitated to take action against the governor. at this moment, armstrong is touring in grand rapids and a reporter talked his editor into sending him up to visit armstrong. he talked of the room service waiter into letting him take up armstrongs dinner.
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he guns in the door, wearing a white jacket and carrying dishes. armstrong was delighted by this. they talked about music and the reporter asked him who his favorite artist was andxd what we know from the tapes that people who only know armstrong from the ed sullivan show do not know is that he had a temper. he would like into rages at noon that he would forget about at 1:00. he spoke with the up most premise and very strong language about the president and the governor. this is the story of a lifetime for a reporter. but the story is unprintable. he sits down with armstrong and the figure out euphemisms to use in places and they came up with "an educated plowboy." the editor did not believe it. then he went with a photographer and the typescript to the story and showed it to armstrong. armstrong read it, gets a pen and signs it and takes a picture with a two of them together with the manuscript and go back to the newspaper office and the story goes on the wires and the ap picks up and it is in every paper in the united states. a few days later, president eisenhower since the guard into arkansas. >> this says, "daddy, if and when you decide to take those little negro children personally into central high school along with your marvelous troops, please take me along. oh god, it would be such a great pleasure, i assure you. may god bless you president, you have a good heart. >> after eisenhower sent the national guard in, armstrong realized the president had done the right thing, maybe at the prompting of armstrong himself, and so he sent a telegram which is to be found in eisenhower's presidential archives. >> how often did he go overseas? >> knott to the soviet union, but in 1960, he makes his first official tour. he had been playing in europe in 1932 and 33 -- 1932 and 1933. he was seen as an unofficial ambassador.
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this producer gave him the wonderful title. he performed regularly in europe. he was beloved there. he became a quasi official american massacre of there. >> what was his way of treating the black-white issue in europe? >> he did not talk about it much. he always had an integrated band and said what he wanted to say about it. he did not bring politics or race relations into this setting. he says that his contribution was to go before mixed audiences with a mixed band and played music that he loved. this was obviously an artistic genius, a man worthy of what he got. >> who started calling him pops? çóñr>> like many people that she hands with thousands of people every week, he had trouble remembering people's names. he distorted calling everybody he met pops. çóthey started calling him pops. its stock, not just because of his own hat, but because it had metaphoric value. when i was searching for a title for my book, i actually said on my block and that i wanted people to suggest a title. an artist wrote in and asked about pops. people who knew armstrong well said that is the perfect title.
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>> this is a little bit of trumpet and you can see it on the monitor. explain what you see when you see lori armstrong -- would use the louis armstrong. >> you see the artist, the serious man. when you see performance photographs, he is a clown and philly put the instrument to his lips and in your face to face with the artist. that gives to the fundamental seriousness of the man. even though he was an entertainer and he was charismatic, at heart, he was the most serious of artists
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thatçó loved life and embraced life and not the most pleasure that was going out of life at any given moment. the greatest pleasure of all was the pleasure of making art without one. -- with that horn. >> board in new orleans, died in queens. married three times. >> the first was a prostitute, the second was a musician. listening to the tapes and talking at great length to people who knew him well, i got as close to him as you can be. >> let's listen. ♪ when pressed me to your heart
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>> it is a good blessing. -- it is a mixed blessing. most of this is either out copyright or no attempt has been made to make them available in any other way. there is a lot of video on armstrong that you just cannot get at any other way. in a perfect world, everyone should be compensated for what they do, but i will not deny for moment that because of the availability of this material, i was able to find out things about armstrong that i would not find out any other way. "the wall street journal." i have been the drama critic for seven years now. >> one day, seven years ago, they want to talk about the papers culture coverage. critic. he dropped that -- the drama critic.
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lunch. i said let's try it for a while and that was seven years ago. we have been trying ever since. >> key is the editor of the editorial page which means that you worked at the editorial department. culture reports to editorial at "the wall street journal." how often do you meet a culture critic who is conservative? not too often. >> why? >> i have not ever come up with a good answer to that. they are not especially interested in culture the way that i am. i think that for the most part, maybe 85 to 9 percent of the time, political issues do not present themselves in the work that i do. when they do, as in the case of
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the play that i read, theyñr become very salient, but if i am writing about the revival or the latest broadway musical, i am not interested in other people's politics and dragging them into a cultural discussion. i don't want to watch a right wing play anymore than i want to watch a left wing played. i just want to watch life. >> how about the selection of what you will write about? would you pick something because of your instincts? what i do not think so. my deal with the journal is that i review all broadway openings and in between that, i can write about anything i want in the united states. i do not seek out certain styles of play is.
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ñri try to go see something that i want to see that i think is going to be good. i am not going there to write bad reviews because i have to sit through the show. if an off-broadway play has a strong political slant that is immediately relevant and is newsworthy, i am going to go out of my way to see that, but that is a news judgment as much it is an ideological judgment. that is all i have to bring. >> a lot of conservatives think that the world of communication and hollywood and broadway and the arts and all that is dominated by liberals. is it? >> yes>> i do not think there is
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any question about that. i do not think that it is a salient matter. i am aware that it is very difficult to get anywhere in hollywood if you are openly conservative because people are so uncomfortable with being around folks like that. theater is a social art. it is a collaborative art. when you try to work with people who were familiar with you, but obviously bring their own perspectives. it does not surprise me that it is this way. the deeper question of why people on the left seem to be more interested in, i do not have a good answer to that. i have idle speculation about it. >> the st. john's college, how long did you spend there? >> just a semester.
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i had come from a very small town. just as armstrong did not set foot out of new orleans until he was 20 years old, i had never really been out of sexton. i went halfway across the country to annapolis. i came back and went to school in liberty, missouri, closer to home. it made more cultural sense to me. it turned out to have opportunities that i could not have gotten anywhere else. i went back to illinois and i spent two years at a point in my life that i wanted to be a psychologist. that was a false thing that i was chasing. ñwixdi learned a lot there. i studied statistics bear whichthis was the most valuable thing i had ever done. if you had studied statistics
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and learned about experimental design, you will never again take, at face value, what scientists tell you because you have the mental equivalent toñro look out and this was designed. way. >> how long at the kansas city star? ñi>> if i remember right, from 1977 to 1983? i became their second straight classical student. i became their first string jazz critic. it was tremendously exciting. theseñi were the early days whee filed the review, -- i will never forget that i didn't fully understand what i was getting into.
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i study -- i showed up and typedñr --ñi this was in the daf typewriters -- a tight the first page of the review and a copy boy comes up behind me and grabs it out of the typewriter and takes it to the copy desk and a half to finish the review. >> how long at the "new york daily news?" several years. it was my second time i came to new york. i edited the "harper's forum." i work on the editorial page and began to specialize in foreign policy. it was my graduate school. writing about complicated issues for the daily news editorial page taught me how to
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the review and typewriter and takes it to the>> how long at the "new york>> several years it was my --it was my second time i came to began to specialize in foreign policy. writing about complicated issues page taught me how to write do you write it with? new york city. carolina. i always have a daily " which usually comes from my reading. there are teasers for my draw journal."
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last night." interview. " a restaurant owner in connecticut, we set out headed mood. the band bus did not have a connecticut, which stopped bathroom. he was refused use of the otherwise available facility. i would never forget the look on lewis's face -- on louis' . '" >> my wife is from connecticut that quote. she said that that could not have happened in connecticut in not only could, but it did. white world. >> he was insulated from this experience because he was very famous throughout the first part of his life he could never be able to stay in a hotel or use the bathroom. he says that he ate more meals then he could imagine in the while he was on the road. his entire band was thrown into
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jail in memphis because the person who was handling the band was white. they threw them into jail and said that they needed cotton pickers. the only reason that they'd let them out was that they offered to play a concert for the police. the great miracle of his life was thatfar from being heartened by baowed. he always looked on the bright side. >> this is a song that reflects some of this. ♪ ic skies of blue and clouds of white light blessed days
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dark sacred nightsand i think to myself, what a wonderful world the colors of the rainbow so pretty in the skies also on the faces of people going by icy friends shaking hands and saying how do you do they're really saying i love you. iac babies crying i watch them grow bell learn much more than i'll ever know and i think to myself
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what a wonderful world yes, i think to myself what a wonderful world ♪ >> in your book, you say that when he died in 1971, he was worth $500,000, but it seems that a man that was on the road constantly, that was not a lot of money. >> it isn't. he said that he did not want to die rich. the net value of his estate was more than that if you figure in the pending royalties. it was not nearly as much as his manager made.
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armstrong ran his life the way he wanted to run it. he took all responsibility for his business affairs in return for him taking care of all the problems in his life from paying his taxes to picking his musicians. that is because armstrong understood what he wanted out of life which was to get up on the bandstand every night and play music. ultimately, he was satisfied the way things work financially. higherhe could have made more money if he had taken more responsibility for that part of his life. it would have been difficult to the point of impossibility for a black man to take that responsibility in the white world. i think that he thought that he made out all right. >> how much of the estate was left beyond the $500,000? what is the value of all that he left? today.
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it has been rolled over into the louis armstrong educational foundation which has a wide variety of educational activities relating to music and medicine. the museum and archive has been made possible by this. it is incalculable. as long as armstrong continues to be remembered and continues to be popular, he will continue to make money and it will be used, since he has no offspring, so far as we know, he did not have children. i think he was probably sterile. it is a guess based on the fact thathe smoked marijuana every day of his life, which probably depressed his sperm count. we know he wanted to have children. his fourth wife,one woman thought he was sterile.
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he thought he had fathered an illegitimate child, and he had an adopted son that he took under his wing as a teenager in new orleans. it was a boy that was mentally ill. he had had an accident. he had fallen on his head he was delighted for the rest of his lifearmstrong made himself responsible for the boys care. his name was clarence armstrong. years. >> how long did he live in new orleans? >> born in 1901 and went north to chicago in 1922. >> how much education did he have? >> not much. a little bit of elementary school. school. that is where he had his only formal musical training. he learned the rudiments of reading music.
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after he left, he never went back to school. he was a self educated and did an extraordinary job of it because he was a really good writer. >> here is some more from that interview that talks about jazz. >> do you feel that american jazz could be an instrument for spreading good will overseas? >> i think so. over there,it is like a religion. they live it. >> house reception been when you play over there? they speak that language. language. -- really appreciate it. they come in there like they're going to be football game. >> what impact did he have on the whole jazz world and how much of it was jazz and how much of it turned out to be like his other songs?
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>> it is incalculable. he is, without question, the single most important figure in jazz in the 20th-century. when he began to make records under his own name in 1925, storm. armstrong did not invent jazz. he was the first jazz soloist to become powerfully influential. he had the sense of swing along with that personal charisma. the influence spread beyond the world of jazz when he started to make feature films in 1936 it spread throughout the whole world. whenever he appeared in europe, he was mobbed. of course in the united states, he could not go out on the street becausepeople who immediately recognized him. what fascinates me about is that the influence is equally
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balanced. he is influential among pop singers that were touched by the sincerity with which she sang. greek -- -- with which he sang. >> what up people who accused him of being an uncle tom? >> dizzy gillespie was the first product attacks. >> i think it was understandable. we think of him as being more contemporary than he is. he is vivid and present in his films and television appearances. 1901. in the deep south. his influences were bottle and minstrel shows. he was not the only musician like this. the difference is that armstrong live longer and was more famous. after world war two, they started to think of themselves
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in a more self aware way as artist rather than entertainers. they are uncomfortable with louis armstrong and they talk about it in interviews interviews. they describe him as a plantation character. >> why would he do that? what would motivate him? >> it is a lot like the sun going after the father. armstrong was the great father figure of jazz and dizzy gillespie came along right after world war two and was making a name for himself. ñiñiit is natural for the sun to want to go after the father. dizzy gillespie live long enough to change his tune and in his autobiography, he says that he had been wrong about armstrong. he even said that he had his own way. the discomfort that was evident
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at the time but is this bill because armstrong -- we now see him as a historical figure. the 20th-century is behind us. the early years of jazz are behind us. we can see him as he was in historical perspective. one of the things that i tried to do in my book is to try to provide the historical perspective. it makes it easier to see what armstrong would have behaved the way he did. >> how often do you run into somebody that has not heard of louis armstrong? >> i have never run into anybody who had never heard of louis armstrong. a cabbie asked me where i was going and he said that he loved those big cheeks of louis armstrong when he was playing, but of course he was thinking of dizzy gillespie. at least he knew we were talking
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about a trumpet player. sammy davis jr. criticized armstrong for not having spoken out more about racial matters and performing in front of segregated audiences as with most black performers did not do that. virtually anybody who toured in the south had to play in front of a white audience. davis made these comments after the big little rock incident. every entertainer were on record talking about armstrong. davis said that he was still playing in front of segregated audiences, but that was irrelevant. >> go back to your 650 tapes where louis armstrong is speaking. college.
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nobody plays them since they have been transferred to compact disk, but you want to look at the box is because all the boxes are decorated with homemade collages made by armstrong himself. in addition to being a great musician and a writer, he was an amateur artist. >> you say they are on desks who can listen to them? >> anybody. all you have to do is called the armstrong archives and make an appointment and you can listen to the tapes. >> how many places in the country other places to go to see something from louis armstrong? >> all of the significant sites that armstrong was associated with in his life were torn down long ago.
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his birthplace and ishaqi was -- the shaq born in was raised in the '60s. there is a terrible photograph taken of the armstrong house and you can see the bulldozer in the corner of the frame. the house is a museum. that is the place to go if you want to get a sense of what the man was a lie -- a man was like. not far from that is his grave which is a beautiful place to go. new orleans has the great statue of armstrong. you have to go to new orleans to get a feel for jazz. his world is a world that he left in 1922. >> it is interesting to hear him talk about rock-and-roll and the impact. >> when i was a kid they would shop and have the banjos.
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it is sanctified music. quite naturally thought it is beautiful music. it was the same as rock-and- roll. it was about love and happiness. >> what about the beatnik crap? crowd? we did things in our 20's. we were there to have a good time with crazy guys. >> at my age, you know i love it. i just watch it. >> as a culture critic, put that
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in context. rap music, whatever, how does that fit into our history? >> armstrong is the great grandparent of it all, as he mentions in this clip. he recognized immediately that rock is an outgrowth of black popular music. he loved the beatleshe loved the bills which he knocked off the top of the charge with -- charts with "hello dolly." he listened to and love opera. he made a record with jimmie rodgers. he went on television with johnny cash. he would have been interested in whatever was going and would have been totally open to it. >> what about your opinion about today's entertainment? >> i like some. i don't like some. >> what is your favorite? what is not so good for you?
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>> i cannot say i am particularly interested in rap. i don't find that it has enough ingredients to hold my attention. rock and its successor music continue to fascinate me. remember, i am 53 years old and i grew up listening and plain rock and country music. music. i played in a power trio when i started to play jazz. i have always tried to keep an open ear to what is going on and they still do. >> what is next for you? what i am going to write a biography of duke ellington along the same lines as a armstrong but. -- book. i got the idea during the summer. the success of the armstrong book has takenñi us by supply -- surprise andthis has opened the way for me to do this. though, i will keep my day job.
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i have the best job in the world as the drama critic for "the wall street journal." i am not going anywhere. ellington is just as captivating as armstrong. i cannot wait to roll up my sleeves and get going. >> how much has been written about this? >> there is more source material been there is for armstrong. the major archives areçóñr in washington and i feel pretty confident that i can bringçó thi same kind of new perspectives to ellington that i did to armstrong, the perspective of someone who has been a musician. ñi, who also takes a wide cultul view. one of the things i tried to do in the armstrong book was to set him in the larger history of culture in the 20th century. i want to do that with ellington, as well. >> what do you think has caused
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this book to catch on like it has? i can say that i have read nothing but quote after quote that this is a good book. ñiwhat is doing that? >> because it is about louis armstrong. if you cannot write a good book about louis armstrong, be a plumber. you are in the wrong business. i tried to write everything i knew about the world of art. ñii tried to translate my specialist knowledge into general slang. i wanted to write a book that would make sense to my mother and that would have the narrative pull of a novel. >> his mom still alive? >> mom is still alive. >> had she read your book? yes. >> yes. >> -- was she a fan? >> yes.
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it is the subject of the book. >> armstrong remains a communicative character. he has not lost his charm. i think that people think that if they have a chance to read a book about a man like this, they will take it. >> did you write the book while listening to louis armstrong? oh gosh, yes. >> you do not normally listen to a first draft while listening to music. there was always armstrong used to go in when i was doing the editing. it is part of the fun of spending your time with somebody that is so likable. >> if you're going to bite a louis armstrong cd or download something, do you have your favorite?
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>> the appendix of my books are a list of 30 songs that i talk about at least. they are available on by twos. you cannot get all of them in one album. it gives you a good cross- section of what he was about from his first record down to "hello dolly." if you do not have an ipod and you do not want to download, there is an essential louis armstrong but it will only give you part of the picture. >> what year on a duke ellington? >> i just made the deal. i do not know what your we will finish it, but i would think for five years from now. terry teachout,>> thank you, and
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let's listen to a little more. to "it's a wonderful world peacoat -- "it's a wonderful world." ♪ and i think to myself -- what a wonderful world. ♪ the colors of the rainbow so pretty in the sky also on the faces of people going by♪ icy friends shaking hands, saying how do you do♪ they are really saying, i love you. ♪
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later, peter or sacked will talk about the budget proposal. at 1:00 p.m., defense secretary and robert gates and others will talk about the defense portions of the fiscal 2011 budget proposal. ñr>> for the first time in its history, the fcc has an in-t(hoe scholar in residence to offer a philosophical perspective to policy issues. tonight, stuart benjamin on first amendment issues and the use of the digital spectrum. that is on c-span 2. ñr>> this morning we will talk about u.s. independent voters and how they may impact the upcoming election. after that, the financial reporter from "the washington post."
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