trinity washington university. then deputy leader. harnett -- deputy leader harriet harman in the [unintelligible] then prime minister gordon brown. . >> it is a challenge every day.

it is the best possible kind of work because we literally change lives. >> how long have you been doing this? >> i am in my 21st year. i still feel new and fresh every day. the length of time has not diminished my enthusiasm one bit. >> why do you do it? what i'd do it because i think education -- i >> i do it because i think education improves the lives and helps improve the fate of the women. if you educate the mothers, you educate the family. i am just happy to be part of it. >> how do you do it? >> that is always the question i get. at trinity was founded by religious women, the sisters of notre dame.

we do it with a lot of commitment on the part of the faculty and our graduates and the alumni. we do it with a great deal of talent in our faculty. they make the education happen. the students also have to invest themselves. the students love this school. they want to have this great education. they know that great women have gradual it from the university and they want to become one of them. it is part desire, talent, and charitable gifts. >> a former congressman and the current speaker of the house nancy pelosi and leave former governor of kansas. kathy black, who runs hearst magazine. >> we have a roster of

distinguished alumni. she is a dear friend and is one of our first great superstars in congress. of course, speaker of the house nancy pelosi, the class of 1962. we also have maggie williams, the class of 1977 who was hillary clinton's chief of staff. but even today, the 2000 loss, we have younger graduates who are beginning to set their career. >> out want to thank daniel device -- i want to thank daniel device.

we would not know you without this cover story. what led to that? i suspect you like this. >> it is a wonderful story. he did a wonderful job. most of us who are the subject of newspaper articles are a little sheepish. he did a great story. what i love about the story is that he brought in our students and our faculty and alumni. it is not just about me, it is about the entire institution. it was the occasion of my 21st year at trinity. most college presidents serve maybe six or seven years. i have been at this for a much longer period of time. he interviewed scores of people. he really put together an accurate and only story -- and a

lovely story of how trinity has changed over the years. >> the school was in the dumper. when you went there, they were in trouble. you were 36 years old. what i was 36 years old. i did not know anything about being -- >> i was 36 years old. i did not know anything about being a college president. i went from running back program to run in the development office at the law school -- running back program to running -- one program -- running that program to run in the development office at the law school. running -- running be developed

-- or running the development office at the law school. before coeducation became popular in the 1960's and 70's, there were about 300 women's colleges. about 190 of them were catholic. the change was about -- was because of title 9. for the catholics, the change was about the nuns working for free and it was easy to sustain institutions on the free labor. the whole basis of operating these kinds of institutions changed. we had to decide in 1989 and 1990 if we wanted to continue t. >> how many students to you educate every year? >> this year we are educating

2000 students. our traditional women's college, the historic trinity college has more than 800 students this year and we are very proud of that. we have grown. in addition to that, we have students that are getting their master's degrees and we have professional students for adults that are working. we are just starting a school of nursing that is very popular. they love the fact that trinity is getting into a nursing. >> what is the tuition? >> tuition is 19,003 under $60. -- 19,003 under $60. -- $19.,360. i should also mention --

$19,360. i should also mention the federal grants and local grants. >> i read in the article that 67% of your students are african-american. >> that is right. >> is that a change? >> that is a huge change. trinity serve predominantly catholic women from the east coast -- served promptly catholic women from the east coast. -- predominately catholic women from the east coast. as our population decline, those women who historically have come to trinity went off to the men's co-ed universities. we had to decide if we should go

coed. it was the sisters of notre dame that sustained us all those years that said to look out on your doorstep and look at the educational needs of the women of the district of columbia. there are women right here in the washington region that can benefit from this agitation very much. -- this education very much. there will probably be women from low income households, but they have the desire to learn. that is that thing about educating the mothers and changing the family. >> march 1, "newsweek magazine," the picture of diversity, black, white and brown students cavorting or studying to get out on me what is a stock shot in college catalogs.

the picture on graduation day is a good deal more monochromatic. if you look at who enters college, it now looks like america. if you look at who walks across the stage for a diploma, it is still largely the white, upper income population. >> that is true for most large state universities and for many private universities as well. in fact, the recent data about college completion rates says that it is not about race, but about social class and income levels. it is true that the lower the income level of the student, the more likely it is that the student is african-american, hispanic or of mixed race. students who have to pay for

college themselves and have to work while they are in school, whose families cannot afford to pay those tuition bills, they take a lot longer to complete college. i happen to believe that many of those students to complete college eventually, but not in the four-six year timetable that we know as the traditional completion timetable. the problem is that the way that the way that the federal government tracks graduation rates counts those that take longer as dropouts. we need to capture those students that have dropped out for many reasons. we tracked this at trinity very carefully. a student may step out of her college education because she had a baby or is caring for a sick parent or sibling or maybe

she is supporting a husband who is trying to complete his education. it is not always a stressed that the student cannot do the work. often, they will come back later in life and complete the decree. >> in the middle of your campus there is this $23 million sports facility. what year did you build it? >> we broke ground in the year 2000 and it opened in 2003 and it has been a wonderful experience for trinity. we had never really had a place where we could convene large numbers of people. we did not have any sports facilities for modern athletics. as a result of creating this center, we have more than 30,000

visitors come to our campus to participate in programs. we have improved all our athletic teams and now we are ready to support teams like volleyball and lacrosse and soccer and other teams that we did not have before. >> where did you get the money? >> we had a wonderful outpouring of support from the local corporate and foundation communities. we received gets in the capital campaign that supports the trinity center that we had never seen before. part of the genius of the trinity center, which many people see, it also was designed to be a center for our community to enjoy. we conduct many different programs for the center. everybody loves it in the

community. >> one thing that i noticed was that people are brought in that have cardio problems that you have a walk track. where did you get this idea? >> partnership is one of the ideas that we enacted at trinity for the last 20 years. when i started as president, we did not have too many partners in the community. one of the things that i realized when i went out to work with the businesses was that there was -- there were many organizations that were willing to partner with a private university like trinity, but we have not extended ourselves that way. one was the watch -- one was the washington hospital center.

as we started constructing the sports center, but began to ask me whether there were ways that they could work with us. along the way, we developed this concept for the cardio rehabilitation unit. the doctors said they would prefer their patients to get their post procedure therapy where it was convenient and safe and wrestle for the patient -- -- and safe for the patient. it is also a future opportunity for us as we expand our academic programs into allied health professions. we also partner with the girl scouts. they use that center quite a lot many area amateur athletic organizations as well.

-- the use that center quite a lot. many area amateur athletic organizations as well. in fact, we have men's sports of there and it is quite popular for many in the community. >> we will get back to that. i have stacks of your blog here. ok. >> where can people read your blog? >> it is on the homepage of trinity. my oldest blog may be around 2005. i thought i would explore it as a way to put trinity out there in a different way. everyone expects the college president to sell the school and talk about how great the school is. that is what i do. i love doing that. i also believe that we have to

have ideas and we have to stand for something. we have to help people understand the great issues of our day. i believe in freedom of speech and i like to modeled freedom of speech -- to model freedom of speech. i feel that it is the same for me as others. i use the blog to talk about higher education and i talk about trinity. i also talk about issues in a way that says trinity is a place that is thoughtful and that we identify issues. i help -- i hope people will always feel free to differ from my opinion. >> is also published in the "washington post?" >> i have a different blog in that paper.

there is a group of 10 of us that are different kinds of business and civic leaders and we write about topics on success. one question was if toyota could repair its reputation. another question is if jay leno will bounce back. it is talking about how people get on their feet or how they are successful. can tiger woods ever regain his success. i was pleased to be invited. >> this is from your block. "my democratic friends have said that i lost my mind -- that i'd lost my mind. my republican friends are

wondering what i'm up to. for one thing, senator alike browns chevy truck with 200,000 miles on it sparks new hope for the possibility of my own senate seat sunday. -- senate seat sunday. " you tell us on many occasions that you are a democrat. >> i am well known for liberal views. while i do not try to be overly political, i am. >> is that often the case for administrator of a college or university? >> no, i know many college presidents that are republican. i think that our political views are all over the map. >> i did not mean that so much. how many of them are outspoken

about their own particular views. >> i think college presidents are much more guarded. in some areas they are not allowed to say something in fear that donors or trustees would be upset about that. i do not think that is healthy. you need to model the idea that you should be able to speak freely. among other things, i try to emphasize, as i did at the beginning of the article, that we have to look at both sides of the issue. on that block, i said that democrats should not be in such a fit about losing their filibuster proof majority. the senate -- the filibuster- proof majority. they need a sense of integrity and intellectual class. no one should be afraid to express their for review.

we should honor robust debate. i think that has been lost in congress entirely, where everyone is encouraged to walk in lockstep with their party. i get called to testify may be a couple of times a year i am very active with some of our educational associations -- a couple of times a year. i am very active with some of our educational associations. because i and local and because i had testified all lot, i am used to the routine. also, because trinity is not a conventional type of use subversive the -- type of university. i like to do that. >> destro to take federal funds? >> -- does trinity take federal funds? >> our students receive federal financial. >> go back to that $19,000

figure on tuition. how much does the average student pay herself or himself. >> the average full-time student pays no more than once thousand dollars or $2,000 out-of-pocket without some sort of subsidy. the trend to grant comes out to about $8,000 for many students. pell grants can be as much as $5,000. local students get different brands. the federal loan can go anywhere from $2,500 to $20,000 a year. >> explain the washington d.c. tuition grants. >> it came to be in the year 2000. it is a program that the founders wanted to be able to provide support for families in the district of columbia who did

not have the same kind of collegiate public opportunities like other states. there is one public university here, but a family that lives in virginia would have george mason, james madison, you vuva d others. what mrs. norton and congressman davis created was a program that would pay a student up to $10,000 a year to go to any public university in the country to offset be out of state tuition rate -- offset the out-of-state tuition rate. there is another program that matches that called ddc -- called the dc college break.

don gramm of the washington -- of "the washington post" provides a great deal of support for the district of columbia residents. it is a great program. >> if you are a kid in the district of columbia, you have a lot of good things. >> there should be no student in the district of columbia that can say that they cannot afford to go to college. there are plenty of scholarship support programs have plenty of opportunities for a student to go to a really great institution like trinity, but also like some of the private and public institutions in this region. >> what percentage of your students comes from the district itself?

>> 40% of the students are from the district of columbia. possibly another 30% come from the state of maryland. that is our next largest group. >> what is a day like for president pat mcguire? >> i have no data is the same. i get up about 5:30 a.m.. i get work done between 7:00 and 8:00 in the morning. usually, starting about 8:00 p.m., the meetings start. students will come in. we are not a very high our call -- we are not a very hierarchy based school. there are a few boards that i set off campus for disorganizations that i connected. invariably, i will have outside

commitments, also. lunch time might be downtown with the board of trade. at some point in the day, i'd try to answer some e-mail. i try to stay on top of that. usually, in the evening, that is when i try to write or try to stay on top of the long range planning that we always have to do. it is a lot of hours in the job, but that is true of any college president. these are jobs that are not 9-5 jobs. you have to find time to have the quiet time so that you can think. there are days that i get to 9:00 p.m. and realize that i have not thought much that day because i was reacting. the public speaking that i do it helps me to keep the

intellectual side of my life somewhat alive and well. the danger is, you cannot spend all your time on administration. >> your salary is $202,000. how does that track with other presidents? >> that is lower than the norm for our kind of institution. we do benchmark ourselves all the time di. our faculty salaries are about 90% of similar institutions. when i started, those salaries were down to about 60%. i should also point out that that salary is a 10 months' salary, so it is not a full 12 months salary because faculty tend to work nine or 10 months a year.

they can work in the summer or teach additional courses. mine is quite responsible. after 20 years, i am still among the more modestly paid presidents in the country. i had a peculiar point of view about presidential compensation. i think that we are workers in the vineyard along with our faculty. i do not think it is right when salaries get well of line. my salary is about 70% of my cohorts, but i think that there are some salaries that are terrible the -- that are terribly inflated. >> what was your reaction to the recent controversy over the president of brown university that was paid 300 it thousand dollars by goldman sachs.

>> it is interesting. college presidents were sought after to sit on corporate boards for a long time. it would bring a sense of class and prestige to those boards. it was a time when that was acceptable. and then, after the enron scandal and the banking collapse, all of these positions are being called into question. i think it is a little bit unfair to say that she should not be doing that when probably, 10 years ago, when she joined goldman sachs, she did very good things for brown. this is an important question. do we have enough knowledge? do we have enough time to devote to that? to be a good corporate director requires a lot of time.

i am on a corporate board, a life-insurance company. it pays all lot less. but it takes a lot of club. you have to be a good steward -- but it takes a lot of times. you have to be a good steward. -- but it takes a lot of time. you have to be a good steward. i have learned how to manage and read financial statements and so forth. at that is worth thousands of dollars of continuing education. it does help us with our fundraising interests to meet with other corporate leaders who may have an interest in helping to support the school. so, there are many different angles on that question. it is a tough question. we need to ask ourselves every

day it this engagement is responsible stewardship for my institution. i asked myself that this is good for trinity. if i can answer that honestly, then i move forward. i have, on occasion, resigned from a board when it was not a healthy experience. >> what is a college supposed to do for students? >> the first and most important job of any college or university is to provide the student with the knowledge, the skill set, the values, the competency to be a successful person in life. i say person rather than a worker. it being a productive worker is very important, but being a successful person is the ultimate long tome -- long-term goal.

unfortunately, today, so much of the emphasis on the outcome in collegiate education focuses on work force development and that tends to diminish the ultimate value of a college education which is to form a person who can become a self-actualized lerner -- lerarner. when i went to college, we did not have the internet or cell phones. my students think that i crawled out of a cave. we learned to use today's technology quite well. we educate today's students for technology and certain circumstances. students will be successful and ethical and will be able to continue to build a successful society for the future.

>> what are your mcgwiruire-ism. >> always tell the truth. it did not try to manipulate the truth. i tried to live by that myself. secondly, work hard. there is no such spain as overnight success. i worked very hard and i have worked hard all my life. i am very proud of that. there is no shortcut. the third paying, don't expect to measure all the results of your work by your salary or your perks or how much of a claim that you get.

you need to ask if you have improved somebody else's life today. if you have, that is rewarding in itself. do what you love, love what you do and work hard. >> what is with the camera? >> it the camera. you are everywhere with your camera -- >> i started as a film photographer and it cost me a lot of money. i do not think i was as good at it as i might have been because it was an expensive hobby. when digital cable long, i took to it because digital is far less expensive to learn how to do a use -- to do and use. being a photographer helps bring me closer to students in a friendly and engaging way. students log to take pictures of

themselves. i take pictures of the athletes at the athletic banquet every year. it is a way to engage with them. what i have developed in the past 10 years or so as a private hobby is a very restful and serene application in wildlife photography. i have developed -- circassian application -- avocation and wildlife photography. i wait a long time to get the perfect picture. it is not only great photography, but it helps me de-stress. it lets me be expressive and it is very relaxing. >> how catholic is trinity washington university?

>> we are very catholic in ways that we believe are important. sometimes people say that there are not that many catholics there. we live the social justice system of the sisters of notre dame. they made higher education accessible to women who were barred from higher education back in 1897. those women tended to be catholic women who could not get access to the men's universities. today, we educate women who cannot get access because of money or family circumstances. we are literally changing lives and saving souls every day. most of our students are not catholic. many of our faculty are not catholic. the issue is not if they are catholic, but if we are catholic. >> we refers to whom? >> me and the institutional

identity that we carry. we insist that they honor our own catholicism in the way that we live our lives on campus. to me, the most important characteristic is to live at institutional life in service to others with a promise on the idea of charity towards all. that gives a value to life. >> your -- there are 12 nuns that live there and one that teaches? >> yes, one still teaches. sister mary is a historian. she is a favorite of all our students. when i went to school there, a lot more sisters of notre dame were there. the number of religious have declined over the years.

there are many other ways for catholic women to feel the call. most people that are lay catholics feel challenged to continue these ministries. we try to understand the mission of the sisters that found the place and hope that we do a good job to continue it. yo>> this is from lifenews .com. this says that trinity president patricia mcguire attended the speech when she was bigger and after that, -- when she was

speaker and after that, the whole issue -- i will read this. nowhere on the trinity website is support for abortion mentioned. it runs contrary to the very purpose of the catholic university. trinity university has taken the role -- the low road. >> they had every right to express their opinion. nancy pelosi chose career in politics. -- chose a career in politics. they engage with the type of political issues of our time. in both cases, i know both

women, and they are very good women who care deeply about their faith. they have raised good families and they have thought deeply about these issues and have been engaged in conversations with their bishops about these issues. it is the role of the bishops to call each of us that hold leadership positions to church teaching and get the church things that i hornets a policy -- hold leadership positions to church teaching and the church thinks that nancy pelosi things about this. we honor our graduates and we honor their accomplishments. we honor them for their great accomplishments as one of the

few women to achieve these positions. it does not mean that we agree with every political position that they have. >> do you take a position on abortion in your blog? >> i have spoken out in my block. i myself am pro-life. i have addressed this on my gosh i have spoken out in my blog -- i have spoken out in my blog. i myself am pro-life. i have addressed this on my block. -- on my blog. they do not necessarily always speak for the catholic church. the church is a large organization and a very diverse organization. it is very clear that the church forbids abortion or legislation that promotes

abortion. i think i have been very clear about that. >> who, in the church, has anything to say about you? >> the archbishop. the rules governing catholic universities and requires each of us to have a relationship with our local bishop. he is the first person to whom i relate. i sometimes prompted discussion when i say that this thing is troubling and how we deal with this? -- and how we deal with this? >> it cost you how much a year to operate? >> we are dealing operation. -- we are a lean operation. >> back to your blog.

in this boise, in a deadly narcissistic culture were famous to what comprised over excellence, parents and teachers face considerable challenges and teaching children about real success. with the news pool of teachable moments such as the salahis crashing the white house party, opportunities abound for responsible adults to talk with kids about the difference. rather than focusing on the gate crashers, talk about the legitimate guest list and white people of achievement were invited to the white house. >> we are in the business of trying to help our students, predominantly young women and some of the older women and men that come to us, understand that you should focus on achievement

in your own life and not try to grab headlines. this is the age of "american idol" and so many of these reality tv shows. too many young people believe that they should be rewarded for showing up. they believe that they should get an a. because they wrote the paper and they do not understand -- then get an a bece they wrote the paper. they do not understand. you cannot ultimately be successful if you do not have the knowledge and skill set that will support real success. >> this is from your blog. in my next life, i will eat we

these every day. i will take care of my knees from day one. i will stop being afraid of small patches of ice. i will learn to slight and skate with my knees bent -- i will learn to slide and skate with my knees bent. but i watched the snow boarders -- >> i watched the snow blowers in the olympics. -- the snowboarders in the olympics. in the summertime, i love to go kayaking. i think it is very important for all bus -- all of us to keep that ball in front of us and keep working on it. i love the olympics, so it gave me new hope for getting back in shape.

>> you say no whining, ever. not at work. not about your existential ennui with the job that is supported your lifestyle. not about your co-workers to have to put up with your obsession with you're unhappy choice of this occupation. not about your boss who, unbeknownst to you in your narcissistic focus on your own misery, has spent sleepless nights trying to figure out how to make you happy. >> this is what i try to say to students and others. you have to love what you do and you have to understand that if you are in a workplace, and you are not happy, you should not spread the disease. you should figure out how to get

to a different place in your life. people that are well educated and have made choices about where they will work, they have to decide that it is not working out for them, they need to move on. choosing -- making a decision that you won't do something that you thought would work out for you can sometimes be the hardest decision of all. when to leave. when to part company. i have seen people hold places of business hostage because they were unhappy, were not doing their jobs very well, making everyone else i'm happy. part of being a real grown-up in the workplace is to blow the whistle on yourself sometimes they get out of it. >> who sits on your board? >> i have six trustees. about half of the board are alumni. there are four sisters of notre dame.

there are other public members and business leaders from the washington region that are interested in trendy. -- internet to. -- in trinity. we have the chief medical officer at a rehabilitation hospital. it is a wonderful board. >> are they all catholic? >> no. most of them are catholic, but we do not say that they have to be catholic. >> you grew up in a family of seven. >> yes. by boys. one sister. -- five boys. one sister. >> where were you born? >> philadelphia, pennsylvania. we were a wonderful family. mom is still with us.

i go up and see her quite regularly. we were a pretty conservative household. dad was paid republican -- dad was a nixon republican. most catholics were for kennedy in those days. >> when did you become a democrat? >> this is an interesting story. i love politics. i thought i would run for elective office some day and now i have a different kind of political job. when i came to trinity, i trows -- i chose trinity. i loved the idea of coming to school in the district of columbia. as i became involved in the anti-war movement, i suddenly became exposed to many new and

different ideas that i had never seen before. i became increasingly liberal and became a democrat. this was much to my dad's a chagrin. that is part of the educational process. i just wish that he would have lived longer because we might have closed the loop. >> what is the breakdown in politics among your siblings? >> i do not ask that question. we do not discuss politics. i suspect that most of them are probably pretty conservative. >> in this article that started all this, he writes "her value to the school cannot be overstated. she seems to run every administrative meeting, to

attend every campus of it, to photograph every basketball game. she once walked into the president's office to find mcguire assembling one of the ikea lamps that like a marble hall and the administratoion building. how long will you do this? >> how long i do this is probably more of a pertinent question. it is not my decision. it is up to the lord and the board. we have a big project that we are just organizing right now to build a new academic center. and that is at least a five- year project. i started this job when i was very young.

i have had three or four presidencies in the same job. i still wake up every morning with a great deal of enthusiasm and a sense that maybe today i might get it right. i never feel satisfied that i have done it all. at that article makes me feel a little foolish because it puts preys on things that i think i can do better. i have been in business long enough and i am enough of a leader to know that you have to have a strong team behind you. i have a great pro most -- a great prosvost. each unit has 18. -- each unit has eight ba dean.

people say that i go to every meeting. that is really not true. somehow, i got back on campus and everybody said that she is back and that is fine. sunday, when i do decide to move on -- someday, when i do decide to move on, there will be a national search for this position. i hope that there will be a sufficient talent pool on campus so that there'll be another a credible candidate gets here. >> what do you expect president obama to do for college education? what i think that one of the things that is going on right now but they are trying to do is to move the student loan system away from the private loans and a completely to the government.

i think it will put more money into pell grants and make the administration of the programs simpler. i also think that to the extent that the obama administration can help us come up with a system that provides more transparency in a good way, i think that is fine. i am not one of those residents that resist the call to public accountability which has been the mantra of republican the ministrations. -- republican administrations. i think it would be very harmful to do any kind of ranking system or grading system which has been talked about.

i also point that there should be greater attention paid to private colleges and universities. most of the obama initiatives are focused on community colleges which is great. they can certainly be gateways. some of the greatest work is be doing by university -- is being done by universities like trinity. i think that there should be funding for that. >> 2000 students. tuition, $19,000. eight buildings on the campus. what is the difference, do you think, in running a university that caters to women versus one that caters to men? >> that is a great question. one of the big difference is that is obvious to most in a

larger away universities -- obvious to most and a larger university, if there is a football team, which is a very expensive sport to operate, and very competitive, i do not have to worry about having a football team. i do not have to worry about having a law school or a medical school or any of those kinds of units that can be very challenging for a larger university to run. what i'd do want to be competitive on is the quality of our academic facilities, our library, and equality in our classrooms. it should not be any less or any different than what you can get

any other university. >> just a couple of moments left. what is the thing that you say to eventual contributors? >> the most important thing is that we are making women successful at trinity and a few good men. we make our students successful in the same way that trinity always has made students successful. we bring success to students that might not have ever considered themselves to be able to be successful but for being at trinity. that is what gets to the donors. we are making opportunities happen for students that have never known opportunity before. that is the most important thing any donor can support. >> in her 21st year, pat

mcguire. thank you. >> is so nice to talk to you. thank you. -- is so nice to talk to you. thank you. -- it is so nice to talk to you. thank you. >> for a dvd copy of this program, call 1-877-662-7726. for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q&a.org. q&a is also available as a cease and podcast. -- a c-span podcast. >> met sunday, a different view education with michelle easton. she founded and remains president of the policy institute. michelle easton, on q&a, sunday

at 8:00 p.m. eastern and pacific on c-span. >> coming up next on c-span, deputy leader harriet harman. after that, prime minister brown testifies on the iraq war. and then another chance to see "q&a" with patricia mcguire president of trinity washington university. >> tomorrow, on "washington journal," williams galston, christine todd whitman discusses the role of nuclear energy plays in obama as policy -- in about's