republican devin nunes and democrat xav-mujtáp washington journal is next. . .

>> what did lincoln say? i am not bound to win a but i am bound to be true. two generations ago, if folks sitting in your position made a decision. we will make short that seniors and the poor have health care coverage that they can count on. they did the right thing. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >host: the president yesterday before a house democratic members, and late last night the house rules committee moving ahead on the health care bill. the gavel will come down at

1:00. the first vote will happen at 2:00. after posting a bill late on thursday. there are five key members that speaker's and president obama still hope to convince to support a health care bill. -- five democrats. what it means for you and the politics. we will take your phone calls in a moment. the headlines on this sunday morning. the health care cliffhanger is the story front page in "the washington post". house leaders decided saturday to stage a vote on the senate health care bill, dropping the strategy of allowing it then lawmakers to demem the bill into law. democrats continued to withhold their support over fears that it

would open the door to federal support over abortion. the ground is shifting by the hour. house democratic leaders dropping plans to approve the senate bill without taking a direct vote on it. thousands of opponents circle the capitol building, chanting angry slogans. several directing that it -- and black lawmakers. here are the phone numbers. we welcome your but dissipation. are lying -- and your participation. our line for democrats at 202- 737-0002. republicans -- 202-737-0001. independents -- 202-628-0205. paul west writes that if the measure is defeated, some aides predict privately that the house will lose their majority in the fall elections. steny hoyer will disappear along

with its power and influence. that is the headline in the "baltimore sun." they need to pass legislation and anticipate that they will do so. the numbers are on your screen. you can twitter your conversation. the story points out the clock ticking down to sunday's vote, the speaker of the house putting on the pressure to get the bill passed by the narrowest of margins. good morning. caller: good morning. host: what you think of this health care bill? caller: i think it is all a bunch of red tape. i feel confident it will not pass.

there is way too much money at stake. it could force the united states into more of a recession. host: good morning. where are your phoning from this morning? caller: lawrenceville, georgia. host: what do you think of the health care bill? caller: i wanted to pass because the status quo is unacceptable. host: what about the cost? caller: the congressional budget office -- says it's saving in years to come. host: good morning. where are you falling from? what do think of the health care bill? -- where are you phoning from? caller: i think the republicans want obama to fail.

if you -- even if you do not have health care, there would be more money put on it. host: good morning. where are you telephoning from today? you are on the air. good morning. where are you telephoning from? caller: tennessee. i think it is a great thing. they say the government is overstepping its bounds. here in tennessee, tennessee tells us everything to do already. so i think the government needs to step in and help us, because we pay our bridges health- insurance here now and it is no good. -- pay outrageous health insurance here now and it is no good. caller: it is so important

because there are so many people hungry for health care inand this will help in jobs as well. for a lot of people out there who are hurting, there are some things i disappointed in. i wish there was coverage for the next four years for pre- existing conditions, because i know there are people out there with diseases like cancer. i oftentimes wonder if they will be able to survive the next four years. this is a good start. this is important. the other comment i would like to make is that i am tired of republicans stating that people -- americans do not want this. this is one american and every american in my household wants this. the people i talked to do what this. i do not know where they get these polls from. i ask them -- i ask myself, is

it because a repetition as to making people believe anything they say? because the republicans are definitely the no party. host: stewart udall passed away. mr. udall served three terms in the u.s. house are representatives as a democrat from arizona. president kennedy tapped him for the top job at the interior department. he started his credo, saying nature will take precedence over the needs of modern man. he was 90 years old. born into a mormon family. liz carpenter, a journalist and a feminist and an aide to lyndon johnson. the first press secretary for

first lady lady byrd johnson. what you think of the health care bill? good morning. caller: -- what about the bill and paul ryan had gone back and ask, as you did on c-span earlier, the cbo re-worked it on the docket? they said it would wipe the deficit. the 16,000 additional personnel they will hire at the irs. if there are no taxes included for the american people, why do have that many people? it is hypocritical. they know that is going to happen. the american people need to get a hold of their representatives and tell them how they feel. this is completely ridiculous.

people do not believe they are going to have a tax increase. then why do have these people enforcing the law? host: that was in "the washington post" this morning. we will get to that later. reed wilson is with us. good morning. where are we at? guest: they are close to getting the votes they need. it is unclear if they have more than that. a couple of lawmakers are suggesting they have as many as 221 votes. they need 216 to pass it. host: politico reports that there are five or six democrats in the undecided column. who are they? who are you tracking?

what do think it will take to sway them? guest: it is not clear exactly who they are. one of the main ones, one of the big targets is congressman brian baird from washington state. he has been on the democrat watch list for a long time. he said in november he did not like the process. now he has become target number one. a lot of democrats think he will vote for in end pa this-- in the end. others are steve greehouse in ohio, and an incumbent from

ohio. most of those members will have a tough reelection battle. [inaudible] baird is retiring at the end of the year. he has a swing district. it has gone for the winner in the last five presidential elections. it is evenly divided to50-50. host: let me ask you about the issue of abortion and whether the president would sign an executive order to restrict taxpayer dollars for abortion? guest: this is a fascinating development. we have a president who republicans love to call liberal. the hearing it is talking about

-- he is talking about signing a banner about federal funding for abortion. it is telling. it is this something that democrats would only do if they desperately needed stupack and the dozen or so votes he says are in his back pocket. -- there is an amendment in the house bill that would an anti- abortion language. that is not in the senate bill that makes the democrats worried, or makes the stupack democrats worry that some funding might go through for abortion. if the air talking about executive order, democrats are falling short. stupack has left the door open, but only if they can come up

with an abortion compromise. i am not entirely certain whether that will be required, but as of yesterday, the white house was still talking about getting stupack's vote. host: the house meets at 1:00. can you walk us through the schedule? guest: they have a couple of bills they are voting on before the house bill. they are taking care of business, legislation. then what happens is a series of three votes. the first vote they will take is on the role they came out of the rules committee. -- the rule that came out of the rules committee, the manager's amendment. the second vote they will take is on the reconciliation and m and, the package of fixes.

the third vote there will take is on the senate health care bill itself. they are looking at the fixes before the vote for the health care bill itself. that will take place later this afternoon. they have to wait on the vote until 2:00, which is when democrats have put the bill on line in the first place. after some contentious debate, they will begin about 2:00 today. host: reid wilson. thank you for being with us. back to more of your calls. live coverage on c-span for the house vote later today. you can also follow the process of lying -- online at c- span.org. caller: i am from phoenix.

i wanted to tell you that i am a psychiatrist in this town. -- for the past 33 years, and see a decline in american health care, especially mental health care. i think this vote should pass. it is the first step for making health care system more, basically, reasonable. our friends all over the world, in switzerland, in france, in england, they laugh at health care here. host: jim on the republican line from portland, oregon. caller: we have a constitutional republic in america and process it is as important as the outcome. this process states. it is an odious situation in the house. i think it is -- the process

stinks. schraeder, he is a democrat house member, if he votes for this bill key will be out. this district is a republican majority district and he will lose. host: congressman devin nunes, republican from california, will be joining us in 15 minutes. and congressman xavier becerra will join us later. independent line. good morning. caller: this scares me to death. i have never seen anything like this, the deals they are making, the rules they are breaking. it is scary. i know a lot of people that are very angry about all this. and then you turn around and look to people who haven't

worked their whole lives and paid into the system like they were supposed to -- who have worked their whole lives and paid into the system, and then they say, we will cut you off. i do not think it is right. host: good morning. where are you telephoning from? caller: los angeles. this is bob. i support a change in our health system. what they are trying to pass right now is very weak, but we do need to change in all of our system from tort reform, malpractice concerns, all these things need to be changed, but this is a first step. i did not care how well it works. it is a first step. i would rather have the money going elsewhere than to the insurance companies. they are making a profit on our health. host: michael from boca raton,

florida. democrats line. good morning. house -- house voting on health care today. caller: one thing we fail to notice, even though the house will pass this after three votes, it is not a done deal we still have to get this, because the republicans in the senate can still kill this bill. as was stated on c-span and all the other news programs, this still has to go back to the senate and they can still shoot this down. we may have got this bill for nothing. host: republican line. from california. good morning. caller: my question is -- not really a question -- my concern is about medical marijuana in california. republicans will shoot down anything they can.

there should be an actual majority rules process. lieke it or not. this will pass. host: the house voting today. your reaction? caller: the president said in his speech he knows what it's like to vote on a hard bill. most of his votes were present. i am scared either way. it seems our constitution is broken. the president before said the constitution is an outdated piece of paper. that is what holds all the states together and gives them power. it is a scary time for us. host: doug, a former adviser to the mccain campaign has this inside "the new york times".

the real arithmetic of health care reform. " if you strip out all the gimmicks and budgetary gains and rework the cut delays, a different picture emerges. health care legislation would raise not lower federal deficits by $562 billion. it front loads -- taxes and fees are set to begin immediately, but the new -- even worse, some of the costs are left out entirely. to operate the program over the first 10 years, future congresses would need to vote for $114 billion in additional annual spending. but this discretionary spending is excluded from the congressional budget office.

medicare is already bleeding red ink and this health care bill has no reforms that would enable the program to operate more cheaply in the future. instead, congress is likely to continue to regulate override schedule cuts in payments to medicare doctors and other providers. michael joining us from austin, texas, republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. as a republican, i am for health care. but i have had cancer. i was fortunate enough to have insurance. however, the high cost of the drugs that they give you, i had one shot that cost $5,000. why aren't we addressing the drug companies? the problem with health care is

multifaceted. not just the insurance companies. and have something that will work, we will have to address the whole issue orders like fixing a car and only fixing one thing. he still of a broken car. host: susan from chicago. good morning to you. caller: i'm just calling. i have been a silent american. i am at 59 years old. i am fearful for the structure of the nation. i wish when people ran for office, the election was over, we had a body that would work for the better part of the country. and i think health care is necessary, reform, for sure. most americans will lose their house over health issues versus financial. corporations can rule by buying legislation. some people to organize a small

group, and it sounds like they are speaking for the entire nation. we need it. i have lost my health care with no reason. i worked all my life. when i had moved with my husband, i could have collected. host: how did you lose it? caller: they would not tell me. i had a major operation. it was memorial day five years ago. they sent my check back in it would not tell me why. my husband is healthy, i am healthy and i have one girl. host: do you have insurance now? caller: i make sure i have a co- pay. i will not carry an independent policy i had -- i had that before. all my life i have worked. i have never taken anything. i just hope i vote for the right person. i do not care what party they are in. i want that person to vote their conscience.

i think morality comes into that. it is a scary time in my life. i feel the corporations are ruling the country. host: "the washington post" takes a look at the votes. democrats and republicans undecided. by party, there are 193 confirmed yes votes, all democrats 329 listed as undecided. 23 of those 29 it needed to pass the bill. -- 29 listed as undecided. 216 votes needed to win. this vote count was tabulated as of 11:00 last night. democrats line. louisville, kentucky. caller: good morning.

as an african american, and i am a military veteran. i am scared to death. i watched c-span. just listening to the people call and and the misinformation. as a black person, i'm scared for myself, scared for my children. my husband works in law enforcement. the racism, being in kentucky, but things are just really -- it is getting ugly out here. just a minute ago when you were talking about medicare and you were talking about the almost $500 billion, nobody is saying that the republicans are voted that in through reconciliation. they did not pay for. it was the prescription drug benefits they did negotiate with the pharmaceutical companies. it is no more fair and balanced

and then that people do not know the truth and are misinformed, they do get angry. it is making a bad for a lot of us out here. host: "new york post" -- give them heel. obama's due date. "dr. o" -- dems take last shot. the rules committee last night, the vote was 8-4 to move it forward. the house will vote on the health care bill later today. from virginia, the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i do not want to be at the mercy of our government to decide if i liver died. who is to say there will not use that new power -- to decide if i live or die.

who is to say they will not use that new power to garnish our wages? host: thank you. "the new york times", "the long road back," the tactics, the perseverance and the lock that resurrected the health care bill. in a series of conversations over the telephone in the oval office back in january, speaker's conveyed the frustration of the president -- to the president if she and harry reid would stick their necks out for mr. obama's top priority, she what she -- she wanted assurances the president would do so as well. we are in the majority, speaker

pelosi told the president. we will never have a greater majority in numbers we have right now. we can make this work. that was from back in january the story from "the new york times". good morning. caller: good morning. i am dead against this bill. i will tell you why. i am 65 years old. the people cannot afford this. if they are poor, how will they afford it? there will go on medicare? i was forced on medicare last november because i turned 65. i save $13 more a month that people who are not and medicare. it will go up for people on medicare. they do not even know about it. i called the social security office to find out why i am paying more than the rest of the people. these are people that will be

put on medicare, the poor people, will go on to medicare and cause people who pay all their life into it. i am so displeased with the american people. thank you. host: "new york daily news" -- obama's presidency hinges on today's vote. there are no ways to overstate the consequences for barack obama. today's vote is a populi"apocole now." if he gets it, his presidency is selvage. if not, he is staring into the political best. abyss.

it is more likely he postponed his asian trip for a second time to savor critical win and escalate the trauma of a win, not out of desperation. -- the drama of a win, not out of desperation. bobbi jackson from c-sappan radio. then the conversation with democrats and republicans. >> at noon, we will bring new nbc's meet the press. the guests are steny hoyer and john boehner. then at 1:00, and we will preempt the rest of our sunday shows to take you live to capitol hill as the house of representatives debates and votes on health care. here are the guests of the rest of the sunday talk shows, which will focus on health care as well as politics. an abc's "this week, 'house

republican whip eric cantor. davis pluff, and former bush senior adviser karl rove. the guest of fox news sunday will include house budget committee ranking republican paul ryan, house chief deputy whip debbie wasserman schultz, and share of the national republican senatorial committee, the chair. house majority whip james clyburn and democratic comparison -- congressional chair crashed and holland. the house democratic chair john lawson and diane feinstein and orrin hatch. our re-airs of the sunday talk

shows will resume next sunday on cspan radio. on thew e web at cspanradio.org. you can follow us on facebook and twitter. >> on this historic day, the house republicans open their doors for the first time. >> we have expanded your coverage to american history through multiple platforms, television, radio and on line and cable television's latest gift, a free video archive, the video library. >> here is a look at monday's live programming. we will bring you two events. from the annual conference of

the american-visrael at 8:00 thursda. at 8:30, hillary clinton will talk about u.s.-israel relations. live at 8:00 p.m. eastern on monday, reaction to the federal communication commission's national broadband plan. all live monday on the c-span television networks. >> "washington journal" continues. host: congressman devin nunes, thank you for being with us. good morning. is there anything in this health bill that you like? guest: no. i think this is socialism. they have used a totalitarian

tactics to enacted. host: did the democrats have enough to pass? guest: right now they do not. i have been marching earlier, you were showing a diagram. -- i was watching earlier. there are more committed no votes. host: 193 yes votes. 25 or 26 that swing, they need 23. guest: they are on the margin. this is a partisan bill. it is not about taking over 1/6 of our economy, this is a fight amongst democrats. republicans have never agabeen offered to be engaged in this process. the democrats are entering something that goes beyond something that we should be doing in a republic. host: when the president put

forth his stimulus plan last year, no republican support on that. leader boehner has been saying their biggest accomplishment last year was being and firm opposition to so many of the president's agenda items. is their fault on both sides? guest: no. i cannot speak for the leadership, but i could speak for my situation. you asked me to vote for a stimulus bill that spent $2 billion for congressional district in my district will only see a few crumbs of that money. how many jobs will that create? we have seen how well the stimulus bill has worked. it has not worked at all. it -- if everybody could get a job with the government, and we could spend money here and everyone could get a job. it would be a good policy and easy to annette. we want from bailouts -- easy to

enact. we went from bailouts, then $1 trillion stimulus bill. we did an omnibus bill. we have a $1.50 trillion budget for the foreseeable future. now we are doing a government takeover of health care which is likely to be a $2 trillion or $3 trillion cost of this bill. host: if the bill passes the house and goes to the senate, will become law? guest: if it passes the house, it will become law. the senate republicans will do all they can and their power, but because they are using the unprecedented reconciliation process, for a bill of this size, they dropped the 60-vote threshold down to 51. i do not see how republicans can -- host: what about republicans putting forward amendments?

guest: they had 20 amendments. i do not see the likelihood of having one pass. host: our line for democrats is 202-737-0002. republicans, 202-737-0001. you can send us an email. can you give us a sense of the flavor of the debate on the floor? you got a lot of angry comments aimed at a couple of your colleagues, including barney frank and john lewis us thing te "n" word as he walked through the halls of the capitol. guest: when you use a totalitarian tactics, people can do whatever they want. it is not a proper. i think i would stop short of characterizing the 20,000 people protesting, that all of them were doing that.

host: those are some of the stories. guest: of course. i think the left loves to play a couple of incidents in here or there, anything to draw attention from what they are doing and that is that they have 250-some democrats in the house. they do not have them. they are buying votes. the rules committee finished at midnight last night. it is called slaughter house rules right now, named after the chairwoman of the committee. this is the first time in history where we have not had an open rule. i do not want to get stuck on procedure, but they never allowed republicans to offer amendments. today's rule that the health care bill is under, that is being called a super max rule, we have no ability to even ask the chair anything during the debate. and the debate will be only an hour of debate, for a 1/6

takeover of our economy. this is some crazy totalitarian tactics. host: you think the vote could happen as early as 2:00? guest: we come into session at 1:00. if we had the votes, we will get to the bill. if they do not have the votes, we will see this go into the night until they can buy more votes prepar. caller: from alabama. i am really tired, as a republican, i am a conservative -- i am tired of hearing the republicans a vote no, no, no. the fact is, the democrats could have passed this thing through if they wanted to. they have a super majority in the senate. they have a super majority in congress. i am tired of hearing?

that no, no about republicans' third gue. guest: that is what i was talking about. to make claims that the republicans are using dilatory tactics. we have never had the chance to say yes. the caller is right. they have 253 votes, and they haveneed 216 to pass the bill. host: your republican colleague did support the bill? do think he will support it today? guest: i cannot imagine he would, especially with the abortion language. whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, most people agree, most americans agree that they

do not want taxpayer money to be used to fund abortion. they do not want our tax dollars to be used to kill unborn children. this will make it legal. i cannot imagine that congressman go or bart stupak will go for that. host: and your catholic? guest: i am catholic. and i am pro-life. a lot of people who are pro- choice did not want their tax payer money being used to fund abortion. host: the catholic bishops -- catholic bishops came down on this bill. you have catholic nuns saying this would help children and older americans did not have insurance. guest: the leadership of the churches to the bishops structure and not through other organizations. there are other organizations that use catholic in their names. i am not saying catholic hospitals are leftist.

the key is can we keep the left for running the government? it appears that if this bill passes, this will -- this will move us into a european, socialist type of state. host: our guest is a republican from california, congressman devin nunes. bonnie from maryland. caller: i have a comment and question. first the government interfered with the house and we have a collapse. then they interfered with the banks. another one to take over the health care. my question is, because i have arrested more than once -- asked it more than once, with all these revenues from the closing of banks, where will the money come from, the revenue to pay for this health care? it is ridiculous.

it is not all right -- a right to force everybody to have health care. if you need it, there is a way to get it. there is local governments -- they are taxing us to death to pay for people cannot afford it. why is it the federal government's responsibility to set in an override the state's to take our money. host: we will get a response. guest: the country cannot afford it. when you hear the democrats say things that this is paid for, and cbo scores this, and it will save $1.4 chilly and over 10 years. it is not true. they have used -- $1.4 trillion over 10 years.

you cannot take medicare and medicaid, which are totally broke, and then take 30 million people who are uninsured in this country and give them government-run insurance and think that will not cost anything. it is not believable and it is not true. if you believe that this is not going to cost the government anything, you are likely to see it leprechauns on writing on unicorns with pots of gold circling the capital. host: it is an interesting analogy. steve, joining us on the independent line in daytona beach, florida. good morning. caller: i am a veteran. most of my life i was a republican. when bill clinton was in, he helped veterans get insurance which helped me out. i benefit from it today. it is government insurance. i love it.

it is the best health care i have ever had in my life. it's sad that republicans throw all these fear tactics passed the general public. it is ridiculous, it is too liberal, if they are supposed to be conservatives. i am for the health care. i am very happy at what the president is doing. thank you very much. host: what you pay for health care? caller: i have a co-pay of $5 or $10. host: 2 pay a monthly premium? -- do you pay a monthly premium? caller: no, i do not. i had one of these sleep apnea

machines. they did extensive research on my sleep apnea. it has been very helpful for me. i never have a problem. i go to the v.a. clinic. it is the same thing congressman have appeared so many friends of mine have children and they are uninsured, i do not see why they cannot have the same insurance that i have in that congressmen have. guest: i was starting to say we are not using fear tactics. if you are fearful for what is happening right now, you should be. although the gentleman has a veterans' benefits, the problem with the veterans' benefits as ben that the hospitals continued to be inefficient, continue to spend more money every year. the congress has been very generous to make sure that anyone who has served in the military has access to health care. i deal with constant issues

dealing with veterans and their health care benefits. why? because it is a government run health care program. it is easy to sit there and say you have all these problems and you are not paying for them. if we could just give money to everyone, sprinkle it out like i made the joke earlier about the leprechaun or the easter bunny, there is no free lunch anymore. we will run 1.5 trillion dollars deficit this year and every year after. now is not the time to be creating a new government run health care system when we know that medicaid is a government run, it is broke. medicare is a government run and broke. we are putting more people into medicaid on this bill. they will cut medicare advantage. if you are on that, that will be cut. there will be more people on basic medicare. if you look at the veterans' benefits, and they will not touch that in this bill, those

programs do not work that well. as much as we would like for everyone to have health care, it just cannot happen. the federal government should leave this to the states. the states aren't working with local communities. we need less government, not more -- the states are working with local communities. the more we tax and create big government programs, the worse off our country will be in the long run. host: what impact will this bill have on california? guest: only 20% of the doctors in my district will see medicaid patients. now you will double the number of people on medicaid in this bill? our doctors will quit. they cannot afford to operate the way they are now. one of the things not even in this bill, they love to see the bills scored zero, in fact it does not. medicare is shorting doctors right now. doctors are looking at a 25% cut

right now. that fix is not in this bill. when you add that back into the bill, the bill goes into a- score. host: mary, republican line from florida. good morning. caller: good morning. someone had said earlier they had passed the prescription for the elderly are few years ago, but they did not pay for. that was one part of the health care bill, just a small part. this is a major one. what i wanna know is since there are no republicans supporting this, independence are not supporting this, is there any way to have a bill that the democrats are the ones, with their families and their kids for future generations and the unions who support them are the

ones to pay for this? guest: that is one of the proposals we offered in the committee structure. i want to go back to this totalitarian tactics they are using. we cannot even offer an amendment like that. we would love to offer amendments that would be created, exempt certain states. some of the senators have been able to exempt certain states. we had a bailout for louisiana. these were all tactics used to buy votes. they are tactics that are anti- democratic. i do not know if this bill will pass or not. my bet is that they will buy enough votes to get the votes. there is no way to change this bill. the way they have structured the rule until midnight last night, for the first time ever we have a role like this. it is a very dangerous situation. host: anne from chattanooga,

tennessee. good morning. welcome to "washington journal". caller: i would like to ask the representatives is how come they have not come up with a bill to take care people who have worked all their lives in cannot afford health care? people that work should be able to afford health care. guest: i would say that we have, in fact, come up with plans. congressman paul ryan, senator coburn and myself, we introduced the first bill that introduced -- back in may of last year. that bill never saw the light of day. the only time you hear the democrats talk about it is when a demagogue the republicans and say they do not have a plan. the plan they do have they dismiss as not being a real plan. the difference we have in this country right now is that the democratic party is no longer the democratic party.

it is getting like a socialist party, where they believe you can operate things out of washington d.c. the republicans believe in the individual. they believe in states' rights. they believe you should go to your town, your city, your county interstate in that order. not look to washington d.c. to solve your problems. what does this bill do? they are creating four agencies, four boards that will essentially decide how your health care will be given to you when everyone is under this government run health care program. that is very dangerous. if any of you out there have had to deal with the federal government on any issue, you know is the worst possible position when you are trying to get a hold of your congressman or a federal agency to get help for you or your family. you do not want the government involved in your health care system. host: you can join the conversation online on twitter.

newt gingrich just posted at that pelosi and reid say it does not fund abortions. this is a lie. guest: it is a lie. the government subsidies, you will be able to get abortion with those plants occurred this is the first time in history will be funding abortion. host: is the abortion language the biggest sticking point right now in terms of passage or failure? guest: i do not have the count. with the abortion language, there are only four or five, when you look at the bart stupak's who are dealing with that. they are not close to having the

votes. they are buying the votes one by one. there are defintite no's. but there are people on willing to say there are definite yeses. we have been doing this for a year and a half. we have wasted that time, when people are unemployed. we have the highest unemployment in a generation. our economy is in shambles. we are trying of what -- overhaul the health care system that is better than anywhere else in the world. host: two nay votes, one is jim matheson of utah and is at space of ohio. -- zack space of ohio. a democrat of pennsylvania is a yes. guest: carney, i think it is a

very dangerous a vote for him. he is from a conservative district. i do not see how he returns to congress. host: matt from amherst, ohio. democrats line. we are speaking with the republican from california, congressman devin nunes. caller: you say we should be going to this city, county, and state to get our medical. but with unemployment, there is no money in these states, as your state is having financial troubles. how'd you cover that? one other thing, if this bill fails, would you be willing to give up your health insurance that you have into uc op with something for everyone in united states? -- until you come up with

something for everyone? guest: what i was talking about is that is how government should work. our founding fathers believed this was a democratic republic, not a monarchy, not a socialist or marxist society, not one word you could control the massees from big white buildings in washington d.c. we know they do not work. as much as people like medicare, medicare is not working today. people that are are that may like it, but most doctors are seeing fewer medicare patients. medicare has tens of trillions of dollars in debt that we refuse to recognize in this country. it is going to bankrupt this country in the next coming years if we do not use something about it. host: you have generated interest on line from your colleagues.

speaker's's role blocks all gop amendments from consideration, including mine that would give rural medical providers input on plants. guest: rural hospitals have always had a problem. you get disparities when you begin to pick winners and losers in washington d.c. the rural communities often lose. i am glad that he is watching. host: winston-salem, north carolina, on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i have tried vis-a-vis the internet, periodicals, to update myself as much as possible on the bill. i have a few questions. 35 million people are uninsured

and there are 35 million people of work. to me, it would seem that would be the much more important situation, putting people back to work. if you did pass health care, you have to 35 million people. how many of those people do not want to be mandated to be insured? then there are the people who cannot afford insurance who pay their premiums. how to the premiums it paid? one big question, and these are all things i have tried to look up and i cannot find in the minutia of the bill, tort reform. is that a bitg reason that would help make this bill work? i am in favor of everybody getting health insurance. it seems like president obama's priorities need to reflect change as his government

policies change and become more our party and of more importance. host: thank you. guest: it goes to what i said a little bit ago. we squandered a year and a half of the obama administration. they came in with a mandate, 60 votes in the senate, a super majority. 256 votes in the house. they never had to work with the republicans. they never tried. . .

really, they're fighting amongst themselves to find the votes. host: our guest represents the san joaquin and fresno area of california. next is steve from berkeley, california, on the independent line. caller: hello. steve, and congressman, it's a pleasure talking with you. how are you guys today? guest: doing well. it's early in berkeley. caller: it's beautiful out here in california and we're not too far from fresno. but basically, you know, the thing about it is like the congressman, i'm -- i'm

republican registration although i vote independent most of the time. but one of the things about -- and also happen to be catholic. and the thing about it, what i find lacking in the republican party right now is that a society shows it greatness by how it takes care of the least of us. guest: and that's why the republicans do have plans. the plan that i talked about earlier that paul ryan and senators byrd and coburn offer we offer access to coverage but we do it by decentralizing the government. letting the power rest with the individual, not with the politicians and the bureaucrats here in washington. we know where that's gotten us. we know where the government programs that have been tried -- how they worked.

despite the fact that a lot of people may think that they're working fine because people continue to say they're working fine. but the reality is, they're not. we have $12 trillion in debt right now that we owe. that does not include $50 trillion to $80 trillion that we are pretending does not exist. it's like having a subprime mortgage on your home. you keep adding to the debt and never have to pay more. eventually, that bill is going to come due and that's how really -- we're struggling with that right now. we made so many bad loans and you have a recession. look what it's caused. host: can i ask you two prediction questions? short term, what's going to happen? guest: i assume they pass it by one vote. host: mid-term elections? guest: it's hard to say but i don't see how the republicans don't pick up seats in the house and the senate.

host: thanks very much for joining us. guest: my pleasure. host: and we'll continue the conversation with congressman bersra to get his perspective from the democratic side of the aisle. but first, another update on the sunday morning conversation . democratic national committee chair tim cane and the rnc chair, michael steel, then at 1:00 p.m. we'll preempt orshows to take you live to capitol hill for the house of representatives debate and vote on health care. but for your information, here are the guests on the rest of the sunday talk show which will focus on health care. on abc's this week jonathan carl will talk with eric canter. john larsen.

former obama campaign manager and former bush senior white house adviser karl rove. the guests on fox news sunday hosted by chris wallace include paul ryan, house chief deputy whip debbie wasser man schultz, and john cornyn. on face the nation from cbs bob shafere talks with richard duh bin and mitch mcconnell and chris van hollen. and on cnn's state of the union candy rolly will be talking with mike pence and house democratic caucus chair john larsen. also, california democratic senator diane fine stine. and utah republican orerin hatch. our complete sunday replays of the tv talk shows resume next sunday starting at noon eastern on c-span radio 90.1 fm here on washington, d.c.

you can follow us on facebook and twitter.

host: more on health care with representative bessra, from california thanks for being with us. what's the final vote count today? guest: we win. what the vote count will be i can't tell you. some of these decisions are made at the last moment. host: who are the key votes? guest: there are members who are doing a lot of soul searching on the issue of abortion, trying to make sure that they believe that we are going to threeve system in place where there are no federal funds used for abortion. there are some people who are trying to make sure that this is a system that will not undually change the system in way that is might hurt their district. and once they have that sense of comfort, we'll see. host: catholic bishops sent me a letter saying don't pass the bill. some maneuvers yesterday including an agreement by the president to sign an executive

order that would restrict any of these funds to be used for abortion. how does that play out? guest: i learned a lot for nuns when i was growing up. the nuns are for this bill. we have the catholic hospital system for this. what we're going to find is that people have to do their soul searching, and at the end of the day we believe we'll have the votes we need. it does not provide any federal funds for abortion, and what it does is helps us provide more quality affordable health care to the 1180-some odd million americans who have health care through their employer. we add more to the roles. so at the end of the day i think people will weigh this and say that history commands that we move forward and make progress. i think we'll pass it. host: you still have more than 30 democrats who are saying no. why? guest: any number of reasons. the same reasons you might have americans who say no. some believe that the current system works better for them and their district. some members are very concerned

about issues like abortion. some members just can't quite get there for whatever reason. and we respect that. this country runs on a majority and we intend to seek out and secure majority to pass this legislation. host: the former congressional budget office director has pened a very detailed editorial this morning in the "new york times." the essence is this. the bottom line is that congress would spend a lot more on health care, steal funds from education, social security and long-term care and gover the gap and promise that future congresses will make it up by taxing more and spending less. one of the examples that he puts on the table is gimmick number one, the way the bill front loads the revenues and backload's the spending. that is that taxes and fees are set to begin immediately but its new subsidies would be deferred so that the first ten years of revenue would be used to pay for only six years of spending. guest: i'm surprised that mr. holts eeken would say that. because as a former

congressional budget office director he understands how people attack the cbo all the time. but it's the only referee that republicans or democrats can turn to because they're independent. they're nonpartisan. and if we can't trust the cbo's numbers then we're lost. it's a food fight. and so i think what doug knows is that these are all projections based on a lot of deep analyst is as doug used to do when he was director. and what the cbo has told us, not republicans, not democrats, is that this legislation will save us, will reduce the deficit in the federal government by -- there's a new figure, it used to be 130 billion, we just told it's over $140 billion. over the second ten year's of this bill's existence we will save over $1 trillion. and we can argue about the details, but the fact remains that the congressional budget office which doug used to direct has said we're going to save money. why? because we do a number of

things. some are more painful but we do things to move the country forward. as we speak, a child is being born in this country who will have a bill of over $8,000 to help pay for today's health care costs. if that child is born healthy, a lot less. a little sicker, a lot more. but one way or the other we are paying for each person in this country, including the child born right now, over $8,000 per person. that will break us, whether it's private or whether it's medicare or medicaid or veterans health care, you cabinet continue. status quo -- can't continue. host: we'll get to your calls. thousands and thousands of tea party activists on capitol hill yesterday. this seems to be the genesis of a new political movement. will it impact you and the democrats in the mid-term elections? guest: i hope we continue to see americans come out and express themselves.

i remember when i was growing up there was a time when the apathy among americans was growing and growing and people were concerned that americans wouldn't even vote any more. so i think it's great to see people. regardless of their political affiliation or their opinion, the more that get out there and express themselves, the better. today we're going to see tens of thousands if not more than 100,000 people in the mal expressing themselves, on a number of issues including immigration reform. i think it's great. i have nodsing but great respecttor people who come to washington, d.c. and make their voices heard. better than than having a lot of influential lobbyists shilling for a lot of wealthy companies and individuals making policy for this country. host: we have this point that we have seen, idaho having the first governor signing a bill into law that would not allow federal mandates to move into his state of idaho. 37 states are moving to null fi mandates on individuals to buy

health insurance. guest: we were told all the horror stories about medicare in 1965, we were told all the horror stories about social security back in the 1930s, you can't do this. the same type of movement and accusations. we now have two of the most important programs that help seniors stay out of poverty. medicare, and social security. seat belts. there were people who said the same thing about seat belts. today, we buckle up without any thought. we'll move forward. host: carl joining us from los angeles. caller: i'm just calling to see if the republicans and the democrats are agreeing on 70% of the bill, why would they have to start over? guest: that's why we're going to have a vote today. no one believes that the current system that costs so much money is where we should end up. and we have had over a year's

worth of conversation, discussion, debate, amendments. westbound close to 100 years of discussing this issue. and we're ready. the president has said it's time for an up or down vote. the bill isn't that dissimilar to what republicans in many respects have proposed. it differs in some respects. and for that reason, we have some people who are opposed. we respect that. we need to find a majority. we intend to find and secure a majority and well move forward. host: we have this comment via twitter. guest: no one is ignoring anyone's wishes. as i go back home the people in my district want this. they're desperate for this. i get letters all the time from people who need this. i hear it from people throughout the country. i will get reelected if -- i won't get reelected if i ignore

the people. host: your state of california will be in his words crushed by these federal mandates. guest: my in-laws live in representative nunes' district. they are desperate for this. and so they are not my constituents, they're their constituents. i know what they're thinking because they're my in-laws. they won't get crushed. we'll get crushed if we do nothing because the system is already weighing us down far too much. talk to the people who can't get insurance because of a preexisting condition. talk to the people who thought they had insurance and went in to use it and were told, guess what, that's not insureable. or talk to the folks who haven't had a chance to get insured because they can't afford to pay $7,000 for an individual policy that has high deductibles and preepyums. we'll get crushed if we don't do something. we cannot continue to spend 17% of our economic capacity on only health care. as gm has said, they put more money into health care than they do to buy the steel for

the cars that they manufacture. you can't do that. host: another call from california. william on the republican line. caller: good morning. i would just like to say that all these -- i'm a republican. and but i am hoping for this bill to go through, self-employed. i do the have my daughter that has a preexisting condition. and i cannot afford to pay anything or i can afford something but not be charged with them asking or if they ask for me to pay. you know? in all these fights that they're -- that is happening just because of the republicans and democrats. and all the fear that the republicans tend to put on people, it's just horrible. guest: i think a lot of us

agree with what you have just said. it's time to get this country back on track. we have to worry about creating the economic capability to create those jobs so you and others can continue to work, pay your taxes, do the things you want to do to send your kids to college. we need to do a number of things. getting health care right is one of those. and that's why we intend to have this vote. it's so easy to just say stick to the status quo. stay we w what you have. and, by the way, with a $2.5 trillion system for health care, there are a lot of interests that would like us to stay with the status quo. it's time to change. host: let me ask you about a couple members. your count today, firm votes, where is it as we speak? guest: by the end of today we will have had the majority that we need to pass this legislation. host: but right now? guest: i guess i'm asking how many are considered undecided? guest: it's a very small number. some of the members have not said no. a number are saying we're still

looking. and what we know is that we are very, very close but that we feel very confident that when we come to the vote, the votes will be there. it's tough. these are big decisions. it's like a vote to go to war. no one takes it lightly. we all consider what's at stake. but i do believe that with the change that this will bring, people will feel that we are confid dently putting this country back in the right direction. host: let me ask you about a couple of members. your colleague loretta sanchez, will she support the bill? guest: i believe at the end of the day most of the california delegation will host: marian berry of arkansas? guest: he's a good member. i believe he'll see the importance. host: john tanner of michigan. guest: john tanner retiring member, smart, fiscally understands this country's needs. i'm hoping he'll be there. host: kathy dal kemper. guest: an important state. she understand the needs to get the country back on track.

she's very concerned about issues in regard to abortion. i think she finds this will bill takes care of those needs. host: but she is emblem yatic about a number of fresh men worried about reelection. guest: most of the people i've spoken to, they don't mention to me their reelection. they talk to me about what they're hearing from their constituents, how -- we'll take the country forward faster. and most of them are trying to make sure that they can go back and be true representatives of their district. it will be a tough vote for a number of them. but my sense is that they are more weighing how this will affect the people in their state and in their district. and then make a decision based on that. host: congressman stupak of michigan has led. he said that he had up to a dozen votes, although congressman carney saying he will support the bill. but do you think congressman stupak will vote against the bill because of the abortion language? guest: if there's someone who wants to vote yes on health

care, it's bart stupak and i know that he is continuing to have conversations with the democratic leadership and the president, seeing if he can get there. whether he gets there or not i don't know. but i know he is someone who genuinely would like to vote yes. host: if you could have changed anything over the last 14 months, either the language in the bill or the way the house members went about it or the time line that you went about health care, what would you have changed? guest: i would have said to the country we need to reform the system. my solution would have been medicare for all. one, because you talk to today's seniors and they will say it's helped. it's worked. in fact, we had a lot of seniors going out to these town hall meetings in august saying, tell the government to keep its hands off of my medicare. and of course medicare is a government administered system for health care. you still get a private doctor, private hospital but it's administered through the federal government. that's what republicans are

calling a government-run system. because medicare has worked so well, and those who claim it's going bankrupt don't recognize that medicare has life well beyond any private health insurance company and medicare doesn't increase your premiums by 40, 60, 100%. so what medicare does is takes care of our oldest and sickest and it continues to do so and has never stopped. it's a great system. that's why seniors love it. and if we had said to the american public we are going to do for you what we have been able to do for seniors i think we would have had more success. i think many of us believe that we should have fought to make sure there was real competition in the private for-provetf profit insurance marketplace. have a system similar to medicare to guarantee that americans would have a choice to be able to -- insurance companies would have to really compete to see who could offer the best policy to americans. host: there's a piece this

morning about your colleague and the speaker nancy pelosi saying that she had a meeting with the president in january along with harry reid and the essence of it was she told the president if we're going to put ournecks on the line, you need to as well. is that a fair assessment of what happened over the past few months? guest: what the words were, i don't know. but i know she said we've got more than skin in this game and this is for the public. we have to convince the public that all these rumors about socialized medicine, government takeover, death panels, all of those thing that is we have now shown and seen are not true require the president to get as involved as possible. and i believe the president was intending to and certainly now he has. host: next is david joining us from pittsburgh. good morning. independent line. we'll go to margaret from union city, pennsylvania. republican line.

do me a favor turn the volume down on your set. guest: good morning. i would like to know how this is going to affect the baby boomers that don't qualify for medicare and can't afford independent health insurance, which runs about a third or half of their monthly income. guest: thank you for the question. because that population, whether you're in it or not, is the population that most needs the assistance, some form of -- a road to get to insurance because the private insurance market doesn't give it to you. this legislation will establish this marketplace, this exchange where all the insurance companies will then be able to offer an insurance policy. because it's an exchange administered by the federal government, we can make sure that, for example, that there

are real consumer protections in it. that there are minimum benefit levels and that there are, for example, caps on how much an insurance company can charge you for any type of care you get. we can make sure as well that they don't discriminate against you for preexisting conditions. the reason the insurance companies will participate with all those constraints on that unscrupulous activity is because they're going to get access to 32 million new customers. and so by doing that we're able to lower the price that they would otherwise charge you. you will have access if you're in that population to an insurance policy that will give you pretty decent coverage. i won't say great because it's still expensive but it's a lot better than what you can get right now and for a lot less money. you can't do it otherwise because the insurance companies don't want your business. they want to be only -- they want to get only large pools of people so they can spread their risk or they want only wealthy people or very healthy people. and so you have to have a pool that you're part of.

32 billion people, so that you can have access to that health insurance. that's what this is about is trying to make it so you give the insurance company an incentive to want to get your business. 32 million americans. at the same time, you tell them, but it comes with a catch. you have to provide minimum level of benefits. preventative care. you can't charge too much. you can't charge them forever. and you can't tell them, because you have acany you're not insureable. because you were a victim of domestic violence it's a preexist pping condition you're not insureable. those two examples are true exampleles of what insurance companies have used to deny people access to health insurance. host: the sound bite that got a lot of attention, you're calling and john has this twitter comment. that's from the house rules committee yesterday. guest: what he was talking about is that in the rules committee they have to try to have a very open system of debate. because in the rules committee,

you decide what legislation will get to the floor and possibly become law. and so they try not to have a lot of constraints. for example, on the floor of the house i'm limited on how much time i get to speak. in committee, my committees, i'm limited in the amount of time i get to speak. in the rules committee they are very open. so they essentially can decide, we'll debate forever or we'll only debate for a minute. it's very open. and i think that's what oolsee was talking about. in the rules committee that's the last gate you pass before you actually put legislation that could change the lives of 300 million americans. and so they open up the gate to real vigorous debate in the rules committee. we had only one bill before us but it went for 8 or 9 hours. that's because you want to put aside some of the rules that constrain debate so you can have as rigorous a discussion about what legislation should get to the floor before it becomes law. host: so the gavel comes down at 1:00. technically, the earliest that

you can vote is 2:07. that would be the 72-hour rule that was put into place. then what happens? guest: we go into debate. we will have a few hours, several hours of debate on the package, the legislative package that will be this health care reform. we will have a number of votes that take place. the rule vote of course which is a procedural vote to actually give us a chance to vote for the real bill, the bill then when it passes -- and i say not if. but when it passes, will then two things will happen. what we call the reconciliation bill will go to the senate. the senate must then debate and pass that. and the bill, the underlying bill, which was passed by the senate previously. once we pass it, will go to the president for his signature. so one bill with today's votes will go directly to the president once it passes. it will then become law. we will then have in place the architecture for health care reform. the second bill, the corrections bill to get rid of any special deals, to get rid of anything that we didn't think would work well, the

corrections bill then goes to the senate, completes its debate. if it passes goes to the president and then you have that legislative package which becomes health care reform which puts americans back on track to quality health care. host: in that second part, that senate vote e, when will that happen? guest: senate is a different body. they have their own rules. again, they have their own rules and they have to go through their debate and discussion. i suspect it will take somewhere around a week for the senate to be able to get through that process. it's all procedural process in its votes. host: a lot of attention being put forts, the idea of the speaker this deem and pass that ultimately did not pass the rules committee. why? what changed? iveragets there are many ways. as i said the rules committee is very open in how it opens the gates to a bill a that could change the lives of americans. and so there are many ways to do this. one way is to put the bill straight before the members for a vote. another way, because we have two bills that we're look at, is to tie them together.

and the discussion was about tying the bills together. so that when one came to the floor, it was tethered to the other. and by passing one, the one that was tethered would go with it. so you couldn't pass one without passing the other. i believe at this stage we're going to have a separate vote on each one, vote one up or down, vote the second up or down and then you move. if one doesn't pass it doesn't go to the president. host: greg joining us from jacksonville, florida. good morning. guest: good morning. thanks very much. i really enjoy c-span. and this is the very first time i've had a chance out of 30 years i've been watching c-span to call. so i'm very excited to get on the air. and again, i start my day with c-span. i had a comment and a question for the congressman. the first thing i want to observe, i really tried to get in when congressman nunes was on the program and i took some exceptions to what he was saying when you first asked him

about some of the reports from some of the demonstrations in washington against this bill that the n word was used. and he sort of justified his comment as saying when there's a totalitarian system, then people have a tendency to get just as aroused and they use those kind of terms. i really think that certainly at the decorme and civility that was unacceptable with his response. the second thing is that a veteran called and indicated to him that he was satisfied with his health care. and mr. nunes was saying again that there was no free ride. and i'm a military veteran. i'm a combat veteran of vietnam. and for him to say that there's no free rides, a military veteran who has put on the uniform and has sacrificed not only their lives but their blood is reprehensible. let me get to the question. guest: let me follow up on those two points and then we'll come back. guest: ok i enjoy when some of

the vietnam veterans call and talk because this war that we're fighting abroad today in iraq, afghanistan, very different from what we faced in afghanistan. very different than the way we're treating today's veterans coming back than we treated from vietnam. so to greg, i just say to you thaumping for your service, thanks for getting through. host: but also his earlier point about some of the language being used. guest: i find it offensive. there's no excuse for that. and maybe it was a slip of the tongue by some. regardless of whether it was or wasn't, it has no place in this country. it's a free country, we get to say what we wish. i know that. but there's a lot of history behind that. and i don't think there's any excuse that it can be given and there never should be. and i think if we could descend on some of those folks and let them see the ways of this country they would change their minds about what they think. and they said it, and in this country they get to say it. but we move forward. and those who were the subject

of those kinds of attacks continue to rise up. in fact, we have a president of the united states that goes -- refutures the kind of statement that was made there. host: greg, back to you. caller: the question that i had is that i've seen some of the bill. my question is, is that how are we going to pay for it? and even though i do support the bill, i know there's some huge amounts of funds that's going to have to go into funding part of this health package so i would appreciate your explaining how this is going to be funded in as much as there won't be any new ref news coming in. guest: there are going f going to be new revenues coming in. but let me give you the three components of this. first, we have all seen the 620 minute reports of the medicare fraud, abusing and exploiting our seniors, overcharging them for wheel chairs or prescribing medication they don't need.

or having them go through multiple tests, mris, x-rays and so forth. that type of abuse adds up to tens of billions of dollars, some would say more. in fact, a republican senator coburn has said that a third of all medicare money is wasted. i don't think it's that high. but if that's the case, that's about $200 billion almost a year that might be wasted. we're going to go aggressively into that. 60 minutes, will do a report in the future, and they'll find that we have extracted that kind of waste and abuse. and people will pay the price for doing that. you get a ton of savings from going after the fraud and the waste. secondly, we're going to make sure that we have everyone pay their fair share for medicare. medicare right now, you get taxed for your benefits in the future for med capare. there are some people who have income that doesn't get taxed the way yours does for medicare. we are going to make sure we do this fairly and make sure that everyone is paying their fair share of income to be able to

receive medicare in the future. next, we make a number of changes to the medicare system where we save money. because, for example, right now there are certain hospitals and providers that receive more compensation than the hospital or insurance company next door. why? it's just the system that became broken. so what we're trying to do is level the playing field so if you're a provider or insurance company you get about the same amount of money as does a provider and insurance company next door. that saves you over $100 billion. so in a 89 $9 -- 94 billion dollar per year system, out of $2.5 trillion, we can find the money. you have to make some cuts, you have to increase the revenue. you make tough decisions when you have to have these important votes take place. but we're going to get there. and at the end of the day, we end up saving money because we're making more cuts and finding more savings and adding enough revenue so that at the end of each year the federal

government's deficits actually go down by the second 20 years we will be saving over $1 trillion by having this bill in place as opposed to having nothing done. host: how do you convince those waivering democrats to vote today? what will you and others being be doing in the next few hours? guest: it's more convincing them that we're going to save in deaf sits in the long term -- e deficits. it's convincing them that there is no federal money to conduct abortions in this bill. it's convincing them that their hospitals, the american hospital association, their doctors, the american medical association, their organizations that they trust, aarp, are supporting this legislation because it's the right thing to do. letting them have that comfort that making this monumental change to a system where status quo has prevailed is the right thing to do. because you don't go back -- once you vote for it you don't

go back. once you vote to impeach a president you don't go back. once you decide to get this health care system back on track, we don't go back. host: thanks very much for being with us. appreciate it. guest: always. host: we'll continue our conversation on health care and talk with an expert from open secrets.org. and later, the latest in the middle east and our relations with israel. then back to more of your phone calls as we prepare for the vote later today. this is the washington journal for this sunday morning. back in a moment.

host: we welcome the executive director of open website. gork. guest: good morning. host: what's in this health care bill? guest: what will affect every american for their health care future and so that's why the advocacy around this bill is such a fevered pitch on both sides. host: and the biggest myth about this bill? guest: well, i think from my perspective, the concern is that there is so much passion around it, which is good. but i think people often fail to step back and see kind of the facts about the legislation. and that's certainly what the lobbyists have in mind. they are attuned to every tweak, every punk twation, every facet of it. and so the money that is

focused on this legislation is huge and it is -- the outcome is serious and it's complicated. they are focusing on, again, each facet of the bill to try to shape their piece of legislation that would impact their clients. host: most notably, the insurance executives and their companies. we saw from kathleen sebluss, the secretary of hfs who spoke to the insurance company group earlier this month. they have been fighting this tooth and nail. guest: and it's been interesting, because they were -- they were invited in to conversations early on with the white house and they have of course enormous representation clout, power in washington. lots of campaign cash, lots of lobbying dollars focused on this, finance insurance and real estate, the larger, broader sector has always been the number one spender on lobbying every year back in

time. so this is the we hem yotsdz on lobbying and campaign contributions in washington. host: is it going to pass today? guest: i can't make that prediction for you, but it certainly seems as though the democrats are quite confident it will be interesting to see if they as they come down to the wire, if they lose the votes they think they have host: so what changes, if any, can opponents of this bill make in the coming months? guest: i am sure that there will be ample opportunity for amendments, tweaks. but right now, this is seen as kind of the showdown. this is it. this is where all the money has been directed to this moment. and really, it's been such an unusual year proceeding this with the perfect storm of issues. health care, financial regulation, cap and trade legislation. of course issues facing the unions. so the money has just been -- it's a gusher. kind of akin to the money that

was focused on the tax reform legislation in the 80s. there was a book called showdown at gucci gulch. this is akin to that moment. because of the nature of this legislation, it's so comprehensive. it touches every american. host: what companies? as you go through this and as our viewers want to log on to open secrets.org and find out who is contributing or spending money where. what do you point to? guest: on our website, you can see the top spenders back in time and also last year. and last year of course was the where the real fires lobbying was. and actually, the u.s. chamber of commerce is at the top of each list. of course, they are -- that might be expected because they are business asoshe -- the largest business association and their interests are diverse. but health care is one of if

not the principle issue that they were focused on. spending $144 million last year. followed up by as far as the health care interest, farma, the trade association for the pharmaceutical industry, blue cross blue shield, farma at 26 million, blue cross at 22 million. so that's the gap here. the chamber of commerce at 144 million. the next biggest is the massive pharmaceutical industry association. host: and where are they spending it? guest: to hire representation. so they have a codery, legions of inhouse lobbyists that they're directing at this issue. and then they're also hiring often very tony k street lobbying firms to march up to capitol hill and agencies and the white house to plead their case for this legislation. host: how much influence do they have in this kind of environment? guest: enormous. because they are able to tap whatever expertise, whatever former members of congress or

former key staffers who have those connections and can trade on those connections as they march up to capitol hill to try to pressure congress toward their legislative agenda. host: and the political agenda what impact does that ruling and this issue have on what we will see in september, october, november of this year? guest: i think it's going to be unpress dented. there have been seminal pieces of legislation in the past. the tax legislation, which also ambingts every american. but this is such an unusual period because of the intensity of the feeling about this bill, because of the intense money even in a down economy we're seeing increases in spending, not decreases on lobbying. and the citizens united ruling means that organizations will have yet another avenue of spending, they're going to be able to take now corporate, labor, and other organizations

contributions and then direct that toward express advocacy for or against candidates. and this bill is probably going to be where a lot of that advertising, particularly negative advertising, is going to be focused. host: robert is joining us, republican line, good morning. caller: good morning. i have a question. i think i caught a while ago that the chamber of commerce was the largest expenditure of lobbying money. did you say new york chamber of commerce or the national chamber of commerce? guest: this is the u.s. chamber of commerce. the national chamber. caller: and of all of that, it's only 144? guest: in 2009. $606 million spent over about the last decade. and i should point out that it's kind of an unfair comparison because the chamber includes their grass roots

lobbying. so their organizations can choose to use different methods of reporting lobbying expenditures so they're including a somewhat broader scope of lobbying. but it is also true that they are involved in nearly every big legislative fight in congress. host: one twitter question. what side are the insurance companies on for the most part? guest: primarily they've been dead set against the public option or as some call it the government-run health care. so there has -- that has really been kind of a key hub of the frenzy of spending in lobbying and in campaign contributions. and i should point out that lobbying is one side of the coin. campaign contributions are the other side of the influence buying coin. the health industry overall including health insurance spent $576 million to lobby this legislation. and facets of it, last year

alone. $576 million. and -- sorry. and on campaign contributions, spent $57 million. so you see the difference, the distinction between campaign contributions and lobbying. many organizations that spend millions and millions on lobbying like the chamber, like aarp, again, power houses in washington, spend virtually nothing on campaign contributions. host: netch is butch from jackson, wyoming. good morning to you. democrat's line. caller: good morning. i would just like to bring to your attention this red herring of the abortion issue in this bill. in the senate bill, the only way a woman can get an abortion is she wrote a separate check and bought her own abortion insurance. how many women in this country buy abortion insurance?

i would like to know the figures on that. who would buy -- who would buy abortion insurance? and then everybody calls these people pro-rights. they're just ant choice, they're pro war, pro death penalty. and yet they're just anti -- the bill is pro-life bill. so i would like to know how many people buy abortion insurance. guest: i have no idea how many people buy abortion insurance. but clearly, the abortion issue is a profound one for those particularly those pro-life democrats who are now scouring their conscience to see whether or not they can support health care. support their party on health care legislation or whether they feel they must stick to their guns on pro-life issues. i just wanted to point out one

other thing going back to a previous conversation. when you include the health care sector, the fwrodder sector, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, doctors, all facets of that, and the health insurance industry, there has been a 12% increase in 2009. again, a lousy economy yet spending more money on lobbying. but 174% increase on lobbying since 1999 over the past decade. so that gives you a sense of the trajectory, the upwards sweep on spending, particularly over the last few years. these interests saw this coming. but even again despite a bad economy, this is one investment that they apparently feel they can't afford not to make. host: how do you keep track of these numbers? guest: we download the number from the secretary of the senate, also from the clerk of the house. and then we standardize it by industry, we classify it by industry, we standardize it by

organization so that we can aggregate it and make it available in a more meaningful and intelligent way for the average american. host: steven from jerseyville, illinois. good morning. caller: good morning. my question is, how is that involved in this legislation? and how is impact privacy and how do they collect money? guest: i'm sorry? host: the i.r.s. guest: oh. well, the i.r.s. is not the source for any of our data except for the 527 organization. i guess he is talking about the legislation, how it will impact taxes? i'm not -- that's not my bailiwick or area of expertise so i don't think i can respond to that particularly. host: but you can keep track of contributions, not necessarily through the i.r.s. but who is

giving to whom. guest: right so the federal election commission is charged with acting as the reseptcal for providing the public access to campaign finance reports which are filed with them periodically. and we then collect that public data. of course, there are concerns about privacy, but the courts said many years ago that it is of an overriding public interest to know where campaign contributions are coming from to ensure that there is no corruption, no kind of buying of seats in congress or influence. so there is -- this is all public record, campaign contributions must be reported by the candidates, by the parties, by the paks to the federal election commission and then we all have access to that information. you can see it on our site.

host: one of the questions is the role of the pharmaceutical industry. they basically cut a deal with the obama administration last year. what did they get and what impact did that have on the overall health care debate? guest: i can't speak to the specifics of what they got, but their influence has been just phenomenal. and in part, in large part i would say because they were headed at that time by former representative billy tauzan, formerly a democrat and then a republican in congress. and he -- host: who was forced out as the head lobbyist. host: and he was simply the head of the association but he did register and we were able to see his activity. but they were spending phenomenal amounts of money and have been able to acquire a lot of influential folks who again have expertise, the ability to

navigate the train in congress, and have for many years been seen as having undue influence, the ability to skew policy toward the pharmaceutical industry and away from the public interest. so it is -- i think their clout throughout this process has been as enormous as the insurance industry. although, again, they're seeing some difficulty now as -- host: one specific example who says big farma negotiated the ban of the importation of cheaper drugs from other countries. guest: right. and their patent protection legislation and the ability to negotiate that, the medicare part d. i mean, there are many facets of legislation over the years that they have very successfully, very astutely been able to shape toward their

legislative agenda to protect the bottom line for the pharmaceutical industry. of course, a lot of that activity has been outside of campaign contributions and lobbying, but really geared to the public, through the harry and louise ads through other kinds of direct public advocacy. trying to get people to in those days in the 90s get government out of our medicine cabinet. so but there are i think people have grown a little more sophisticated about the influences that are governing health care. i'm not sure that this legislation, this package solves our major problems, but we have clearly been focused on this. so i think that's really a tremendous benefit in all of this, that even though this is such serious legislation, people are incredibly concerned about the impact on them, on their pocketbook, on their families, on their ability to

get good affordable health care, the positive outcome is that people understand now i think very well how complicated it is, how many interests are lobbying and focused on this trying to shape this toward their narrow legislative agendas. speaking of which, the food and bempling association was one of the biggest increases in -- the food and beverage industry saw one of the biggest because of the soda tax. this narrow facet of the legislative debate on health care. they of course -- politicians were considering taxing soda beverages in order to pay for part of the health care reform and they rallied and they spent $34.7 million increase in 2009 up from 2008 representing 157%

growth in just that one specific industry. so that's wheans. people see their industry being kind of on the chopping block and they rally and they throw everything they have at it. and the impact needs to be understood, because this is just one very narrow interest. and we need to be vigilant to know whether or not that's in our best interest to support or fight that. host: our focus, the roll of special interests in the overall health care debate. our guest is the executive director for the center of responsive politics. and a reminder, a look at the schedule if you're just joining us. the house will be in at about 1:00 this afternoon. and the first round of votes will happen sometime after 2:00, although we're hearing from a number of house democratic leaders that because of debate and votes that will happen during the afternoon, that the major vote on health care could move into the early or mid evening hours.

sometime between 5:00 or 6:00 or 7:00. oven the of course those times -- of course those times remain fluid. probably much later in the evening hours. ronny from new jersey. actually, we go to cleveland, ohio. guest: hi. it's lynne joy. host: sorry. guest: that's ok. i have a coup -- caller: that's ok. i have a couple of questions. more specifically, it seems as though everybody is paying for campaign funds and the american public rely can't. i'm glad to know there's an organization looking out. my primary question is how is the medical community involved in any kind of lobbying? because the medical costs and hospital costs -- they're not going down. and secondly, what elected officials, by party, are receiving many of the campaign

funds? host: thank you. guest: you will be able to find the campaign finance tallies for any sector industry in america on open secrets.org under our industry profiles. so there you can look to see how much the broader health sector is giving to candidates and parties, but also to break it down further into specifically how much health professionals, doctors, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals are contributing themselves. so we try to kind of slice and dice it to make it as flexible as possible for people to find the answers to the questions -- the answers they are looking for to the questions they have. on lobbying, there again health care has typically not been the number one sector spending money on lobbying. it's usually been finance insurance and real estate. of course that would include health insurance. but health care has ramped up.

they saw this was a fight that was looming and began to prepare for that by hiring more lobbyistings, by getting more representation in washington and have for the last several years been the number one sector spending money on lobbying. in this -- in 2009, mislane yuss business is number one, again cheefl because of the chamber of commerce, which of course is one of the key insurance lobbying on health care. and then health is second with 539 million when you add in health insurance it's 576 million followed by finance interests in real estate. host: jean says the special interests of the american people are being totally ignored. we don't want this bill. guest: and that is really going to be -- the passions are inflamed over this and people feel very -- either that this is -- i mean, i think that at least vocally, a lot of people

being very confident that this is the best thing we could get, or it's so needed. and then on the other side, the worst thing that could possibly happen. so it will be very, very interesting to see whether or not a kind of middle centrist -- that this is maybe not the best thing but the best we could get at this time, whether that cohort emerges as a vocal element in the 2010 elections. because i think this is going to be either lauded for many members of congress or hung around their neck. and so it will be curious to see, especially that outside interest money that now we're expected to grow in light of the citizens united decision, whether that has a great impact. and potentially a determine at this time impact. they have in the past been able to come in with a lot of money at the 11thth hour, too late to

respond by candidates, and have an enormous impact. an outside group spending actually not -- a lot of money, but not as big as some organizations. and but getting a lot of earned media off of that and having a great impact. host: a number of these organizations keeping close track of the vote count. 2 16 is the number necessary to pass due to retirements and the death of congressman jack murtha in the house of representatives. one organization reporting that the democrats do have the 216 votes necessary to pass the bill. that again, according to cnn. just one of the news organizations keeping track of the vote count. of course, congressman beckera saying that the bill will pass. gloria joining us from new jersey. . .

>> i can't judge why this might amount to rationing in anyone's mind we are gooding to experience this and judge for ourselves clearly, there's a lot of people who view this as being harmful. the good news is that people are very vigulant. we will be able to take our representatives to task he

said, "we have the votes now as we speak. the vote will happen later today, live coverage on c-span. good morning on the democrat line. >> good morning. a question regarding special interest and the healthcare debate. particularly when george bush was in there as far as trans parent si and special interest. we find out we are paying for the iraqi's healthcare do you

think it has opened up too much transparency? too much on the character. republicans seem not to stand up to man as vigil anti-ness. to be able to research there. a particular member of congress or party or pack.

this administration has made transparency part of their promise. back in the campaign in 2009. now in this administration, they are keeping that on the front burner. there is discussion and debate about whether or not they are achieve it. it's one thing to put it on the place where you are governing. you need to open up your deliberation to the public view.

it is combi indicated. you'll see us comment on the specific element of what the obama administration is doing.

they are on the one hand allowing them to lobby by day and inviting by fundraisers. it costs $1.4 million now to win a seat on average there are fundraisers going on everyday in washington. it costs on average about $2 million to unseat the incumbant. >> thank you for being with us.

no republicans announcing any suppose port. at sk eastern time on c-span. we'll turn our attention now on middle east. we are back in a second.

>> we want to welcome back to

c-span aaron miller. how would you describe the tone of relations between the u.s. and israeli. it is not the 1991 crisis. host: this is how a magazine characterizes it. caller: very often prime

ministers end up wrestling. it was true of george h.w. bush. as i mentioned before, this is not a bump in the road. it will become part of the state of israeli.

it is a distinction americans are somewhere between on this one. host: at least from the arab perspective, they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity sthafment what is happening again? caller: no. they mask a problem. the progs inspects of this happening any time soon are slim to none.

the real problem for this entire problem >> the obama administration's best strategy is to go what was considered a year ago, which is to state what must frame these

negotiations. real sharing of jerusalem, no right of return for the palestinians, no right to the borders that would allow for the big settlement blocks and a demilitarized palestinian state. the president issuing his second speech to the people. >> we don't have a strategy or policy there either.

that leaves military action at a default and that would be a short term. approximate i am eat talks will come in. that is the best hope for this short term. it really depends how important the peace making is to this administration it's aneringable

situation. the president's signature issue we'll find out in 2010 >> connecticut. caller: why do you have republicans on top this morning. host: we rotate it every month. caller: it was democrats this month. host: it was a mistake.

don't read too much into it. guest: on the israeli side, settlements are probably the worst thing they do.

the settlement issue will have to be addressed in a way that doesn't impede or prevent palestinians from achieving their rights. it means the two choices to live under the authority of the estate. >> no withstanding iraq and afghanistan.

host: good morning. where are you phoning from? caller: calling from california. host: go ahead. caller: i believe that the current situation is actually maffered. the united states has ever stood out we are clessly bound it puts a force on iran. they have to face the fact that

either they will come to the table and negotiate a way out of it. host: thank you. in order to preserve the options to let authorities loose on iran is simply wrong. host: next caller, where are you phoning from today? caller: i have a a statement. i'm calling from new york. i read an article from david

not too long ago. i usually don't agree with this guy on anything. i kind of agree with him in his article when he was taubing about how the intervention would not have happened if they went on like a civil war on the united states the u.s. military and the reds lution the reality

determines the border. while the united states stated recognition to the jewish state host: next call from texas. caller: good morning. you mentioned to the last caller, "historic palestinian." was palestinian an opportunity country with an army and leaders. secondly, there was an assassination of some big al qaeda in yemen.

why can't they train our guys to do the kind of work that they do? you are likely to gain an enormous about of respect. the is rails have been fighting this war of the shadows with the hamas leader, not al qaeda, in dubai. this war of the shadows is going to continue tfments one of the symptoms of the absence of the remembering sillation, which seems to me quite elusive

at moment between izzreal and palestinian national our guest has written a couple of books. existed by six secretaries of state.

kelly next from arizona on the independent line. good morning. caller: why are the regions so separated and the actual handing out and provision of oil why has that still not be decided. what is the problem here with all the territorial fighting. host: it is a focus on territory. what is the territory? just take that part of the equation. it's a huge question. guest: driving the land,

territory. it is huge. it affects, it seems to me the driving force of the conflict. it's only going to be resolved when you have a continuing state. reality is regardless of people's views. that solution is going to be hammered out to a long and pain taking negotiation. if it is, from the separation of depazza. that problem can be addressed once the political red lines are crossed. host: from florida. caller: i'm tauging to ask a question. i was wandering if a constitutional monarchy be

beneficial? those countries tend to be a bit more peaceful than ran by a dictatorship guest: we are not going to be able to determine the structure of the government for the people in this region. our own sense of excemption with resfoket the idea really

has to stop at the water's age. middle eastern people will have to shape their own futures. host: from arlington, texas on the republican line. caller: why does it have to be a two-state solution when israel is its own country, it's own state. if you bring the palestinians into the old city of jerusalem, wouldn't that cause more of a conflict? guest: it's the least bad option of all of them it is the only alternative that addresses the political, psychological and demo graphic problems.

the real problem is that they are living on top of one another. unless they separate with security discussions from both sides, host: a discussion that lasted 43 minutes in blunt terms the

frustration level is rising here host: from north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. if hamas recognizes israel's right to exist, will the united states government recognize hamas?

the united states had brought its own policy into alignment with that dialogue. if in fact you had a hamas >> israeli breakthrough, it seems to me the united states would follow through host: we pressure time. thank you so much. a lot of attention on healthcare, the house leadership confirming that they do have the necessary 216 votes to pass the healthcare bill we'll talk more about healthcare as we continue in the last half hour. please stay with us.

jo here's a look at monday's live programming on c-span's networks. we'll bring you two events on the american-israel public

policy. 8:30, live on c-span 2 tv. our guests are the ranking member. all live monday on the c-span television networks you can

join on line. from the outlook session, writing by design, they are slow to change course. look for pat eshes and lessons in so doing have explored grit successes and failures.

why the nation that rescued war-attorney europe could not rescue wilson keeping back. joining us again. guest: thank you for having me. host: i guess the word is that the democrats have the vote. is that what you are hearing? guest: it was said on this week this morning, i think their 216 votes will pass the bill at some point today.

figuring out 216 names may be a little more difficult. host: let me ask you about some of the names we keep hearing we have her in that column before we count her as a real definitive yes. host: the two left democrats, are they a confirmed, no? guest: it's not clear.

this were talking about some sort of executive order president obama may sign or some other maneuver that might be possible to win over his vote at the moment, he appears to still be a no. if democrats still want to win this vote by a wider margin, there's a major comprimise to be had.

at the end of the day, it looked like he was leaning no. then a number of outside groups came into the district and ran a number of pretty hard hitting ads. he fought back a little bit against those ads. he said they were hatemongering. he made some other fairly inflammatory comments about those outside groups trying to influence his votes. he's a chatholic and leaning against it during the day.

it was suggested that he may be the kind of person. host: what about from pennsylvania? guest: she's a freshman, also chatholic, also problems with the a abortion language but voted in favor of the house version the first time. hers is going to be a critical vote. host: the president traveled to capitol hill yesterday. does he impact those waivering democrats? guest: i'm not sure it moved any votes democrats have

largely succeeded they have not sold their vision as well that's when a lot of members needed to make their yes votes. host: a lot of the decision in the chatholic church. you have a group of chatholic nuns supporting the bill and a last minute letter from a chatholic bishop saying to oppose it. guest: that's right. both sides getting involved in this. democrats use that in hopes of getting a couple of those anti-abortion democrats to vote in favor this bill.

the comment was made last week. republicans could have thrown a big road block in all of this forcing prolife democrats. they went to all of their outside allies and tried to convince them to get on board with that plan. it had the larger goal in mind

of scuttling the bill. we are hearing it will be between 6 p.m. and midnight. we'll see how late tonight goes. i'm not sure a lot of folks will want to be working past 10:00 or so. i don't think it would be terribly late.

thank you for your expert he's. >> i appreciate it. randji is yoining us from waterlu, good morning. caller: i'm really for this healthcare bill. the country needs it it's time to bring america home and take care of america itself. host: to the republican line, good morning. caller: i don't really believe they have the vote. i'm going to continue to call today. i'm calling car dosea and others from the central valley

they have to know the level of the focus on this issue. this is not how you get out of a recession this is not how you expand entitlements. i'm happy they dropped that deem and pass thing. a lady called and said, if they think they can cover more people, why don't they cover china ue. host: thank you. the house met on and off and were in session late in the evening.

finally by a voast 8-5 passing a measure now moving the bill to the house floor. welcome. caller: these countries will not be entitled to receive the healthcare plan my two uncles and my father who were preek an fought in the korean an war. my grandfather was drafted into world war i. i myself am a vietnam era veteran.

this is totally wrong. the majority of those who do nothing, not even pay taxes are going to be entitled to this healthcare program. host: on the democrat line we look at the cover of the national journal. the republican leaders, it's called moving on up. this is such an issue. since i retired in 2,000, i've been a real c-span junky and followed all the issues. caller: i was 40 plus years in the electrical business. raised six kids, 12 grandkids. i'm thinking so much of their

future. this healthcare issue you had a long discussion with those people and the not for profit way that they ran it and quality healthcare. there's so many good things that this issue is so big and the republicans are railing against it. i was up at night watching the vote. when they defeated plan d. they held the vote out for several hours and came back and

put that thing through. this deal on the medicare option this bill has got to get passed you took all the money that was spent in the medicare field. everything. you through it in a big pot.

when newt gingrich was on, even hillary appreciated what was done. host: i'll have to stop you there. caller: these people have to come together and get the job done. host: thank you for the call. a heavy lifter when it comes to the votes. caller: good morning. they are doing the same thing over and over again expecting a

different result is the definition of insanity. they took it out of your check it is 37% of our state budget. good luck finding a doctor that will see you. this is a shameful legacy. i hope the people in his district letting him vote on what they need from him. that side kick with their best interest at heart.

if you strip out all the budget. a wholly different picture emerges the deficit by $562 million writing about this morning in the "new york times." next is barbara joining us from connecticut. good morning. i've heard from dozens of people arguing over the abortion language in the bill. i don't know what this language is. is it a specific paragraph in the bill that could be read over in c-span.

some prolifers wish to amend the bill suggesting that the president night enact per the border. the house version is already strip add way in the language that would allow a woman to use her healthcare plan to have an abortion. caller: at the present time, there still is language that could be interpreted as healthcare funds that could be used for that? host: yes.

caller: thank you. host: good morning from california on the democrat line. caller: i had several comments i'm proud that we have come this far. as far as some of us feeling from both sides. some don't believe it went far enough. maybe they don't want to go forward with it. if they look back on all of the funding that was not paid for that people voted for in lock step, it was never paid for. to have that going on now with all of the transparency for the

last eight years. stuff was passed never paid for and we are now bankrupt. i wish people would remember and just think. the lobbyists are the ones paying for people to come out against it. we are buying into that like we normally do against our own best interest. thank you and have a great day. host: the president traveling to the congressional business center he spoke to more than 200 house democrats. saying what do you think of this strong army tactic going into the majority for a vote. democrats have a 250 vote in the house, needing 216 to pass the bill. there are more saying no to the healthcare bill. daniel is joining us from memphis, tennessee. good morning. caller: i wanted to correct

something you said and the caller was asking about. i understand that the bill is so big, which really doesn't matter, i support the bill. there's so much misinformation out there. you had said the senate bill would fund abortion. only in the government paid for market, he's not talking about the government subsidies. that's my comment. i was wanting to say something

to help her understand it. the women have to buy separate abortion coverage and pay out of their own money. host: which is why the speaker said this is not an abortion bill. what happens when these 17 million one and women get pregnant. it costs about $25,000 to carry a pregnancy to term. if they don't have insurance, they have to financially decide whether or not to have an abortion. it's a terrible decision. after the bill passes, these women will not have to make that terrible decision. all those abortions that were happening now, they will not have to make that decision anymore. what else would the women be able to get more easily if they have health insurance?

they can get birth control. right now in memphis, there is one place that gives free birth control. all the women in memphis have to go to a specific location. host: thank you for the call. another viewer saying on the issue of abortion, isn't the legislation that stops federal funding already there. caller: i'm a veteran and a populus which is another name for a socialist. the healthcare program is a socialist program. this country was founded on

social ix for the religious rights, i want to tell you that just was a socialist. he prackisted not greed for power and money, capitol ix. my second point is on abortion. the left likes abortion but they don't like capital punishment. the right side doesn't like abortion but they like capital punishment. i see this as a lot of couldn't ra diction. i love washington journal. you guys are great. the host should not take up so much question time because of those of us who are on hold and

who are trying to get through should be able to ask a question. final comment, there is no greater organized crime unit than our very own government. host: thank you for your call. all of you will condition the discussion tomorrow. talking about some of the changes in the student loan program. the last word from highland, california. caller: i enlisted in the service in 1950 and spent over 20 years in the army. they promised us free medical. now, i understand that president obama is going to be changing this for the tri care. i'm 77 years ole. my wife is 82