would you think it is perceived to under the obama administration? guest: it is the flip side of michael brown. he exudes confidence and experience in this field. the atmosphere and relationship between it fema and local and state folks in the louisiana became so acrimonious that it was at a standstill. they brought in new people and took a different approach. fema is not quite the epithet it once was in new orleans. host: how was he perceived on capitol hill? guest: he has received with respect and credibility. one thing that happened after katrina, is that congress required that any administrator have an emergency management experience. he has the background of local emergency management experience in florida in order to take over

fema. the big thing about fino and cut -- -- about fema is the budgeting and how to account for the money. about $30 billion has been doled out across the country since 9/11. there is no way to measure the success of how that money is being spent and what we are buying for it. he mentioned today, he is going to go back and create a new system to bring in people from state and local governments to measure the effectiveness of the spending. host: both of you pressed him on the issue of the stafford act. why is that important? what were you looking for? guest: the question becomes, are they going to write legislative changes in order to change the definition of disasters and have a more rational way to

understand disasters and their impact. you are always reacting to the last disaster. he is saying, a more reasonable fema can answer a lot of those questions. people in congress worry if you do not have a particular individual in there who you trust, how to write laws so that the flexibility it is not only apparent but that -- apparent but mandated? host: one of your questions is talking about the state and local folks he brought on board with him to the agency. has that helped their perception, both in new orleans and on capitol hill? guest: russell has become regional administrator in texas. he brought people in -- it got personal. that was the problem. part of it was bringing in new people. there were not necessarily

local. there were other feeble people. they were handpicked and they could resolve the crisis -- they were fema people. host: he went down to haiti and talked-about vulnerable citizens. what did you hear in his response to that? guest: fema unfairly is considered the answer to everything in the event of a disaster. he has to explain that they are not the first responders. when he was trying to figure out how to spread that message of being person responsible, he said, there is the phrase the acts in the attic -- the axe int h the attic. if the flood waters came up, everyone knew that. everyone knew that. how did they know that? he wanted to come up with, i have a cell phone.

make sure that families know where each other at arare at. host: our reporters this morning. thank you to you gentlemen for joining us this morning. >> coming up, a look at president obama son in the health care bill into law. after that, house speaker nancy pelosi in a ceremony. and then a senate debate on extending jobless benefits and medicare payments to physicians. >> tea party activist held a rally and saturday in nevada.

among the speakers, former alaskan governor sarah palin. >> the renovation of the pentagon has made it harder for our reporter to walk around, because more spaces are now behind site for the doors where i can not go unless i have escorted. >> cbs news national security correspondent david martin on covering the military in the u.s. and iraq in afghanistan, it 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's "q&a". >> tuesday, president obama signed the health care bill into law. democratic lawmakers gathered in the east room. the president and vice president spoke before an audience in the interior department. this is about 40 minutes.

>> ladies and gentlemen, the president of united states and vice president of the united states. [applause] >> thank you, all. [cheers and applause] >> thank you, all.

[chanting] >> thank you. mr. president, i think we have a happy room here. [laughter] it seems ridiculous to say, thank you all for being here. ladies and gentleman, to state the obvious, this is an historic day. [applause] and our visit, -- business, we use that phrase a lot, but i cannot think of the day that i have -- that is more properly

stated. this is an historic day. history is not merely what is printed in textbooks. it does not begin or end with the stroke of a pen. entry is made. it is made when men and women decide -- history is made when men and women decide that there is a greater risk in accepting the situation we cannot bear and we embrace change. that is when history is made. history is made when you are all assembled here today, members of congress come och take charge it to change the lives of kenyans -- tens of millions of americans to the efforts of those lucky enough to serve in this town. that is exactly what you have done. you have made history. history is made it when a leader

steps up, stays true to his values and charts of fundamentally different course for the country. history is made when a leader's passion is matched with principle to set a new course. ladies and present -- ladies and gentlemen, mr. president, you are that leader. you deserve it. your fierce advocacy, the clarity of purpose, your per se divisioperseverance, these are e

reasons we are assembled in this room together today. but for those attributes, we would not be here. many, many men and women will feel the pride i feel in watching you shortly, watching you sign this bill, knowing that their work, their work has helped make this day possible. mr. president, you are the guy that made it happen. so, mr. president, all of us elected officials, we have seen some incredible things happen, but you know, mr. president, you have done what generations of not just ordinary but great men and women have attempted to do -- republicans as well as democrats. they have tried before.

everybody knows the story. starting with teddy roosevelt, they have tried. they were bold leaders. but mr. president, they fell short you have turned, mr. president, the right of every american to have access and decent health care into reality for the first time in american history. [applause] mr. president, i have gotten to know you well enough, you want me to stop because i am embarrassing you. you delivered on a province, of promise you made it to all americans -- mr. president,

you are to repeat myself, literally about to make history. our children and grandchildren, they will grow up knowing that a man named barack obama put the final gurder in the framework for a social network in this country to provide the single most important element of what people need and that is access to good health. and that every american from this day forward will be treated with simple fairness and basic justice. look, the classic poet virgil once said that the greatest wealth is health. well, today, america becomes all

whole lot wealthier because tens of millions of americans will be off whole lot healthier from this moment on. ladies and gentlemen, the president of the united states of america, barack obama. [applause] >> thank you, everybody. thank you. thank you. thank you so much. thank you. thank you. thank you. [cheering] >> thank you, everybody. please, have a seat.

thank you, joe. [laughter] >> good to be with you, mr. president. >> today, after almost a century of trying, today, after over a year of debate, today, after all the votes have been tallied, health insurance reform becomes law in the united states of america. today. you know, it is fitting that congress passed this historic legislation this week. as we mark the turning of

spring, we also marked a new season in america. in a few moments, when i sign this bill, all of the overheated rhetoric over reform will finally confront the reality of reform. and while the senate still has the last round of improvements to make on this historic legislation, and these are improvements i am confident they will make swiftly -- [applause] [laughter]

>> the bill i am signing will weset in motion reforms that generations of americans have hungered to see. it will take four years to implement fully many of these reforms, because we need to implement them responsibly. we need to get this right. burt a host of desperately needed reforms will take effect in right away, this year. this year we'll start offering tax credits to four million small business men and women to help them cover the costs of insurance for their employees. that happens this year. this year, tens of thousands of

uninsured americans with pre- existing conditions, the parents of children who have a pre- existing condition, will finally be able to purchase the coverage they need. that happens this year. this year, insurance companies will no longer be able to drop people's coverage when they get sick. [applause] they will not be able to place a lifetime limits or restrictive annual limits on the amount of care they can receive. this year, all their insurance plans will be required to offer free preventive care, and young adults will be able to stay on

their parents policies until they are 26 years old. that happens this year. and this year, seniors who fall in the coverage gap known as the doughnut hole, which start getting some help. they will receive $250 to pay for prescriptions, and that will over time, fill in the doughnut hole. i want seniors to know with these reforms will not cut your guaranteed benefits. in fact, under this law, americans on medicare will receive free preventive care is without co-payments or deductibles. that begins this year. once this reform is

implemented, health insurance exchanges will be created, a competitive marketplace were uninsured people and small businesses will finally be able to purchase affordable, quality insurance. they will be part of the big pool and get the same deal that members of congress get. that is what is going to happen under this reform. when this exchange is up and running, millions of people will get tax breaks to help them to afford coverage, which represents the largest middle class tax cut for health care and history. that is what this reform is about. this legislation will lower cost for families and for businesses and for the federal government, reducing our deficit by over $1 trillion in the next two decades. it is paid for, it is fiscally

responsible, and will help lift a decades-long to ride on our economy. that is part of what we worked on it may happen. -- and made happen. that our generation is able to succeed in passing this reform is a testament to the persistence and the character of the american people, who championed this cause, mobilized, organized, who believed the people loved this country can change it. it is also a testament to the historic leadership and uncommon courage of the men and women of the united states congress, who had taken their lumps during this difficult debate. >> yes, we did. [laughter]

>> you know, there are few tougher jobs in politics or government then leading one of our legislative chambers. in east chamber there are men and women who come from different places -- in each chamber and face a different pressures and reach different conclusions and feel deeply concerned about different things. by necessity, leaders have to speak to those different concerns. it is not always tidy. it is almost never easy. perhaps the most difficult challenge is to kabul together out of these differences as sense of common purpose -- cobble together out of these differences a common purpose in a country as large and diverse as us. we are blessed by leaders in both chambers who never lost sight of that mission.

they did not play for the short term. they did not play to the polls or to politics. one of the best speakers the house of representatives has ever had, nancy pelosi. [applause] >> nancy! nancy! nancy! nancy! nancy! nancy! nancy! >> one of the best majority leader is the senate has ever had, mr. harry reid. >> harry! harry!

>> to all of the terrific committee chairs, all of the members of congress and did what was difficult but did what was right and pass health care reform, this generation of americans will thank you. the next generation will thank you. this victory was made possible by the painstaking work of members of this administration, including our outstanding secretary of health and human services kathleen sebelius garra. and one of the unsung heroes of this effort, an extraordinary woman who led the reform effort from the white house, nancy. where's nancy?

today, i am signing this reform bill into law on behalf of my mother. -- who argued with insurance companies even as she battled cancer in her final days. i am signing up for ryan smith who is here today. he runs a small business with five employees and is trying to do the right thing, paying half the cost of coverage for his workers. this bill will help them afford that coverage. i am signing it for a 11-year- old marcellus, who is also here, . marcellus --

[applause] marcellus lost his mom to handle this, and she did not have insurance and could not afford the care she needed. he is told her story across america is in no other children has to go through what his family experienced. i am signing up for natoma. she had to give up her health coverage after rates were jacked up by more than 40%. she was terrified that an illness would mean that she would lose the house for parents built. she gave up her insurance. now she is lying in a hospital bed, as we speak, faced with just such an illness, praying she can somehow afford to get well without insurance. her family is here today

because she can't be. and her sister connie is here. stand up. i am signing this bill for all the leaders -- up his cause to the generations, from teddy roosevelt and franklin roosevelt, from harry truman to lyndon johnson, from bill and hillary clinton to one of the deans who had been fighting this so long, john dingell -- [applause]

to senator ted kennedy. and it is fitting that ted's widow is here. [applause] it is fitting that teddy's widow is here and his niece, caroline, his stoon patrick, whose vote helped make this reform reality. i remember seeing ted walked through that door and a summit in this room a year ago, one of this last public appearances.

it was hard for him to make it. but he was confident we would do the right thing. our presence here today is remarkable and improbable. with all the punditry and the lobbying, all the game playing that passes for governing in washington, it has been easy to doubt our ability to do such a big, complicated thing. to wonder if there are limits to what we as a people can still achieve. it is easy to succumb to the sense of cynicism about what is possible in this country. today, we are affirming that essential truth, a treat every generation is called to rediscover for itself, that we are not a nation that scales back its aspirations. we are not a nation that falls

prey to doubt or mistrust. we do not fall prey to fear. we are not a nation that does what is easy. that is not who we are. that is not how we got here. we are a nation that bases its challenges and accepts its responsibilities. we are a nation that does what is hard, what is necessary, what is right. here in this country, we shape our own destiny. that is what we do, we are. that is what makes us the united states of america -- who we are. as soon as i sign this bill, we have enshrined the core principle that everybody should have basic security when dit comes to their health care. it is an extraordinary achievement that has happened because of all of you and all the advocates across the country. so, thank you. thank you. god bless you and may god bless the united states of america. [applause]

congratulations. thank you. thank you. all right. i would now like to call up to the stage the members of congress who made this day possible and some of the americans who will benefit from these reforms. we will sign this bill. >> thank you. >> yeah. yes.

>> this is going to take a little while. [applause] i have a lot of pens, so will take a really long time. -- it will take a really long time. . .

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[general chatter] >> on her 70th birthday, house speaker nancy pelosi was joined by the various committee chairs and others involved in health care debate in a ceremony to enroll the bill. the senate approved the reconciliation bill and the speaker was obligated to sign the bill before us and get on to the president to be signed into law. this is about 25 minutes.

uppers' before us brought forth social security, medicare, the civil rights act, some of the landmark legislation in our country's history. today, we have the opportunity in the house to sign this legislation to enroll this important legislation to send to the president of united states for his signature. we, review the events of the last week or so -- we calmly review the last week or so.

essential to this passage was the passage to a second bill which would make significant and improvements to the senate bill. only then, would we be able to pass the senate bill. it was a matter of trust between the house and the senate and we were able to do the senate bill -- the house bill knowing that the senate would pass the improvements. senator harry reid did a remarkable job keeping everyone together. we were thrilled yester day to see a very substantial victory for these improvements. what happens now is the result of the work of many people. you have heard me sing the praises of our leadership over and over agai and of course the president of the united states. the victory that we have is largely attributed to our newest members of congress. we have had generations working

on this legislation, mr. dingell, what an honor it is to serve with you. you have been our inspiration. [applause] and his father before him, my father served with mr. dingell's father. his father before him introduced in every term in congress, universal health care for all americans. that legacy, that tradition has reinforced with the reelection in 2006 and in 2008 to increase our ranks, to strengthen the democratic majority, to pass this legislation. not only was about the numbers, more important than that, it was about the significant improvement in the legislation. because of some of the members who are here and their colleagues in the class of 2006

and 20008, makes this health care reform more affordable for a middle-class pri it makes it more accessible to many more people. it has more equity for the state by removing the nebraska arrangement. [laughter] state equity -- it makes insurance companies more accountable by improving the reforms that were there in the original legislation. it changes because of the work of this 2006 and 2008 class and changes the pay for, making it fair for the middle class. it closes the doughnut holes for seniors. it closes the doughnut hole for seniors and that is really very important if you are not a senior, as i am becoming even more and more by the minute -- [laughter]

the doughnut hole is the disparity, the inequity of paying for seniors prescription drugs. more affordable for the middle class, more fairness to the states, more accountability for the insurance companies, battered pay for in terms of the middle class, closing the doughnut hole. something of a captors' why this is so important came home to me last night when i was reading some letters. listen to this -- cindy mercer jones wrote, my daughter, 23 years old, died in december 2010. -- c. january, 2010. she was a diabetic who was kicked off her father's

insurance the day she graduated from college pritchett could not find a job that provided insurance or a reasonable income to buy medical supplies. i helped her financially as much as i could. being a teacher and single mother of five, my income was also limited. she tried to conserve for insulin and tried to wean herself offered my time insulin dosage resulting in acidosis. she slipped into a coma and never woke up. 23 years old, no health insurance, unable to afford her full insulin supplies. under this legislation that is signed, sealed, and passed into law, courney lay huber would be able to stay on her insurance until she is 26 years old.

this makes a tremendous difference. another important part of this and in the president's budget last year, two of his pillars and job creation were investments in education and investment in healthcare. when we did the reconciliation, it was on a dual track per thanks to the leadership of george mann -- miller and members of the education and labor committee, this education peace is in this reconciliation. on any given day, this would be an enormous victory for the american people. lower the cost of student loans, 8 million families affected. improving the pell grant for many people who need them. assistance for community colleges and an historic $2.5 billion for minority-service

institutions making college more affordable for the middle class and reaching out to make it more accessible for many, many more people. it is about trimming our work force and it is about reducing the cost of student loans. thank you, chairman george miller and members of the education and labor committee. [applause] 03jhigdale kildey and so many ms of the committee, rob andrews --

i want to introduce the others. that committee. rob andrews and ruben ninohosa -- they have been relentless on this. that is why so many young people are here today. their lives are affected by this legislation in terms of staying on their parents' policy and being able to afford their education and again, eliminating a pre-existing condition, being a woman for example has been one up until now. not now. it is important to note, and steny hoyer would want to make this point strongly, that every step of the way in the education peace, to save $10 billion for the taxpayer. overall, we saved over $1.30 trillion for the taxpayer. this is about improving

affordability and access -- more for building for the middle class in terms of education and health but to do so in a way that saves the taxpayer money. when it comes to our seniors, we protect medicare and make it solvent for nearly a decade longer, we closed the doughnut hole, and we have a better situation for preventive care the legislation. if your young, middle-aged, middle class, whatever your situation, this legislation affects you very directly. there was not only one reason to do the builill. this involves fiscal soundness. we cannot sustain the federal

budget in the current system. the president also says we will measure our success care by the progress that is being made by america's working families with this legislation that is relevant to their lives, we hope that they will be able to reach their aspirations, liberated from the wake of health care cost, freed from the high cost of education so they can honor the upper house of our founders, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. now, i am honored to sign this legislation which we will then send over to the president of united states. the wonderful ideas that we had will go from being ideas to legislation to block of the land to make a difference in the lives of the american people. first, i want to acknowledge -- i mentioned that steny hoyer was here and javier basreera -- mr.

waxman is not here. i mentioned mr. dingell. congresswomen roosevelt the lsa delauro. as i said, this day would not be possible without the vision and leadership of the president of the united states, the inspiration of senator kennedy who has been with us every step of the way, including right now, but all the difference in the world and all the difference for america's families was made by our class of 2006 and 2008, our newest members, bringing fresh thinking, their tireless energy, and their deep commitment to the american people to bear on this legislation.

kxjclass of 2008. steve cohen of tennessee. kilroy of ohio. carol shea-porter vermont. any others? all of these young people back here who helped because actually all we wanted to do to maneuver and win votes in the congress is not possible without the outside mobilization of people who understand the impact of the legislation and make their voices known to the members of congress. remember, nothing is more eloquent to a member of congress and the voice of their own constituents. many of our colleagues have already gone home to talk to theirbuju)p& boards, to see their families, and to meet their with their constituents on

this legislation. i think our class of 2006 and 2008 who are here in their own right that a representative. let's hear it for our newest members who integrated congress. [applause] -- who in invigorated congress. [applause] this is a much smaller bill and we are signing now.

[no audio] [general chatter] all right. [applause] this will now go to the president of united states. thank-you for our country. we made history here and we made progress for the american people in this legislation. thank you all very much. [applause]

é[happy birthday song] [applause] >> can you imagine a more important birthday privilege than signing health care for all? [applause]

this is our gift to the american people. thank you all very much. [applause] [general chatter]

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>> let me acknowledge mr. butterfield. we have also been joined by mr. butterfield from north carolina and he was an important part along with the tremendous leadership of our democratic whip and promoting the minority-serving institutions, black institutions and hispanic institutions, tribal colleges for our native americans. is the leadership presence? that's it. [laughter] !ñ÷>> now, we will have the cak.

[general chatter] >> let's hear it for the staff. [applause]

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[general chatter] [general chatter] >> coming up on c-span, senate debate on extending short term jobless benefits, cobra health insurance, about health insurance after that, secretary of state hillary clinton and robert gates talk about president barack obama's request for more money for wars in afghanistan and iraq.

tea party activists held a rally in nevada saturday. former alaska governor sarah palin was there and we will show you that at 6:30 p.m. and 9:30 p.m., here on c-span. the senate gaveled out for the spring recess without approving an extension on health care benefits -- on unemployment benefits. republicans led by oklahoma senator tom coburn have blocked the measure calling for obsessed to make up for thew cost. the procedural bowden before but the extensions is scheduled when the senate returns in april 12. now, some of that debate which lasts about 30 minutes. the presiding officer: the senator from georgia. mr. chambliss: first of all, let me thank my colleague from oklahoma for just highlighting this issue of reaching a point where the american people have

wanted us to be for some time, and that is to simply look at the spending that is going on in washington and say enough is enough, and that if we're going to continue down the road of increasing federal spending, then we have got to offset that additional federal spending that is over and above the amount of revenues coming in by federal spending that is in place today. i also want to say to my friend from michigan, the chairman of the armed services committee who made the request on the approval of the promotion of a general, that as he knows, i have already voted in favor of doing that one time within the committee. i regret that we're having to stand up and object. but as he well knows, that's part of the process here, is that senator coburn had to object on behalf of another member of the senate. mr. president, i can't help but note that as we're talking about

spending here, an article that appeared in this morning's ""washington times"." and the caption in the article is "c.b.o. report: debt will rise to 90% of g.d.p." and the article reads, "president obama's fiscal 2011 budget will generate nearly $10 trillion in cumulative budget deficits over the next ten years. $1.2 trillion more than the administration projected. and raise the federal debt to 90% of the nation's economic output by 2020, according to the congressional budget office. in its 2011 budget, which the white house office of management and budget released february 1, the administration projected a ten-year deficit total of $8.53 trillion. after looking it over, c.b.o. said in its final analysis released thursday that the president's budget would generate a combined $9.75

trillion in deficits over the next decade." mr. president, this is exactly why with the leadership of the senator from oklahoma that we have got to address this issue of spending and why we have got to get this issue of spending under control. and no time is better suited to do this than now. i mean, we're looking at a deficit, according to the independent office of the congressional budget office, of $10 trillion over ten years. and here the majority is saying $10 trillion over ten years. and here the majority is saying @ @ @ h@ @ @ $9 billion to

>> if we cannot find funding to offset this bill, how in the world will we be able to do anything other than come under the current leadership, go down this road up seeing nearly $10 trillion in budget deficits accumulate over the next 10 years? congress has an obligation to serve as custodians of the american taxpayer dollars. when we engage in unchecked deficit spending, it has a long- lasting-impact on all americans. i understand times across -- difficult across the country the unemployment rate in my state was 10.4%. there is a new number coming out today. i suspect it will be at least that i. georgians are hurting and i am concerned about that. that is why i would like to make

sure that we can extend the unemployment insurance. but to do so without paying for it, in my opinion, would not be in the best interest of all americans to extended without paying for it. the fact is, as i said earlier, i voted to extend it without paying for it back in the early part of march. the reason i did was because it work with the minority to try to find the offsets. and when did the discussions on what those offsets would be begin? they began last night at about two hours before we finally decided it was time to go home. and to the credit of the presiding officer as well as others on the majority side in the leadership role, they agreed with the republican party that the republican members of this senate that we should offset it

and we could offset it. and that was objected to by speaker pelosi. and unfortunately, here we are today in a situation where we're arguing about $9 billion versus looking at a proposed deficit from this administration of $10 trillion over the next ten years. the american people are just as upset as they can be with congress, and rightfully so. and the main reason they're upset with us is because of this very issue. when i'm back home, where i go every weekend, and i visit with folks, whether it's in the grocery store, whether it's at church or within the business community, every constituent at some point in the conversation about what's happening in washington will bring up the issue of federal spending and why in the world you members of congress don't take some action to get this spending under control. there's never been a better time to do it than with this

particular bill, and there's never been an easier time to do it. we're not talking about $1 trillion. we're talking about $9 billion in offsets, in reductions in federal spending and waste, fraud, and abuse that we all know is out there. whatever area we can agree on that the money would come from. and as we know, we've already identified some areas that we can reduce federal spending to pay this. now is the time to do it, and i would simply say to my colleague from oklahoma, i commend him for being firm. i commend him for being in a leadership role on this issue. and i'm very pleased to stand with him to say that now is the time to do it. and i think we should find you,r stabenow. the presiding officer: the senator from rhode island. mr. reed: mr. president, we are here to attempt to extend unemployment benefits for a brief period of time so that americans don't get caught up in

the expiration on april 5th of these benefits. this is a repeated struggle. we have had many, many incidents over the last several months where we've had to come down here and at the last moment attempt to project these benefits further. i hope we do not fail again today. in 2009, when president obama walked into office, we were losing 700,000 jobs per month. this is a crisis of epic proportions, rivalling in some respects and some regions of the country the great depression. my home state of rhode island, 12.7% unemployment rate. it has been persistent now two years. we are seeing a long-term record of unemployment the we have to help our colleagues, neighbors and friends, and we have to do in a way that does not deny them the basic necessities to just hang on in a difficult economy. but this is not just a -- a

result of the last several months or last several years. if you look back across the year -- a decade, really, 2000 to 2010, it's been an extraordinarily unproductive one for working americans. zero net job creation since december 1999. we've had no decade since 1940 with job growth less than 20%. so this is the culmination of a decade in which people could not find the kind of work that they typically found in america. we saw middle-income houses, the earning power decline. they were making less in 2008 than they were, excuse me, in 1999. and two-thirds of the nation's total income from 2002 to 2010 flow to the top 1%. two-thirds to the top 1%. middle-income families have been losing out persistently and now

they've really hit the skids. so -- because so many now are seeing their jobs go, seeing their house threatened with foreclosure. seeing the dream of accepting their children to -- sending their children to college evaporate. and at least the minimum of what we can do is provide the kind of assistance they need. now, we routinely, when there is a natural disaster, provide assistance. in the last 20 years there's an estimated 33 -- $336 billion in disaster assistance. $61.8 billion agricultural assistance has flowed to the states. this is a disaster in the same respect. it's a disaster to individual families who have lost their employment. the irony here is that if a flood had washed through a state in the union and destroyed the work of 12% of the population, we'd be here with disaster to get the funds to give us loans, to give us support, et cetera.

well, this is the disaster. we must move. and in that respect seeing that my time is coming to a close in the time we have -- mr. coburn: we'll roll the time off of your later time if you would like the time now, senator reed. mr. reed: i thank the gentleman from oklahoma and let me take 1 or two more minutes. that's extremely thoughtful, thank you. we have an opportunity, i think, to act today, and we should. and the proposal really is to go ahead and to extend through the next several days the existing benefits so we have a time to come back. we have already sent to the house an extension of unemployment benefits that will carry through to the end of this year, calendar year. it also includes fmap provisions, which are extremely important to the states that includes other provisions. and i think just in the spirit

really of letting us continue to support these americans while we debate and finally conclude, i hope successfully, a longer-term solution is, i think, the fairest and best thing to do. my colleague, senator stabenow, just an hour ago asked unanimous consent only to receive an objection. and i will once again ask unanimous consent that the senate proceed to the immediate consideration of calendar 323, h.r. 4851 to provide a temporary extension of certain programs and that the bill be read three times, passed, and the motion to reconsider be laid on the table. the presiding officer: is there objection? mr. coburn: reserving the right to object. the presiding officer: the senator from oklahoma. mr. coburn: again i would note this is the fourth time i've done this. regrettably because we had an agreement yesterday that the house would not go along with, i have to object because we will

be adding to the debt. the presiding officer: objection is heard. mr. reed: i appreciate the senator's objection. additionally, i appreciate his consideration in allowing me to speak. let me just conclude that we have a huge debt at the moment. i think if you look at the major contributing factors to that debt, it is tax cuts that were unpaid for supported strongly by the republicans, which accrued dramatically to the richest americans; two wars that have been unpaid for. i think in a few days, a few weeks we're going to have to consider another supplement defense budget which i at this point do not believe is paid for, which i do not feel will engender any objection by the republican side, which will include, given the nature of counterinsurgency operations, moneys that we use ironically to help develop productive jobs and build clinics and do the things that our soldiers must do to

secure the peace in afghanistan and iraq. at the same time we can't find that kind of money here without an offset to help americans. so there is a question of priorities. there is a question of the deficit. again, repeating something that my colleague said, i too recall when we had a surplus. that was under the leadership of president clinton. tough votes by my colleague and myself. that surplus has been dissipated. we are now in a severe situation with a deficit. but i think the priorities, the compelling priorities of americans who need to work and can't find it yet are extremely persuasive and should be responded to by the success of this amendment. i again thank the gentleman from oklahoma. he was extraordinarily kind. iomomomomise. but i wanted to make a point is -- a couple of points. number one, there's nobody on

our side that doesn't want to extend the unemployment benefits. the difference is is we want to extend them without hurting her future. and so there's just -- whether you're a conservative, a liberal, a democrat, a republican, an independent, the consequences of our actions is going to affect everybody. and i use this -- this last year and what this little girl is saying, "i'm already $38,375 in debt and i only own a dollhouse." let me show you what's going to happen this year -- this year alone. she is $45,000 in debt. she moved frd@@@@@@@@@ @ @ @ @

there is another thing that is happening is that america should be aware of. in the past year, the average interest rates on the debt obligations that we are issuing have risen 1%. we have $12.80 trillion worth of debt, applied that by 1%, and in this next year, we will pay an extra $128 billion in interest. for every 1% interest rates go up, we have interest cost of

$128 billion. and what will happen, as we continue to project trillion dollar deficit over the next nine years is that will rise and rise and rise. she is the one that will pay for that. this will not be $45,000. it will be $75,000. then, it will be $85,000 and pretty soon, -- by the way, that only reflects the desperate that has no reflection on the unfunded commitments we have made to veterans, social security benefits, medicare, if you add those in, you have another $37 trillion that has to be accounted for over the next four decades.

that is a big problem for us. i would make the point -- the senator from michigan mentioned the long-term debt extender was 12 months and it is going down very we sent back to the house3 . it did not increase the debt because we offset it. we paid for it. the house a bill that the senate has passed that is paid for and they stalled some of the pay fors for the house so the senate had to send it back. the house refuses to make the hard choices to pay for the things that are really necessary to be done right now. 3 that is what happened yesterday. the senate came to an agreement. we decided we would pay for two

weeks and nobody would have a hitch in their unemployment. they would have no hits in their cobra. they would have no hit anywhere and when it was sent over there, it was rejected. we don't want to create the president that when we spend money we have to pay for it. we're in the world is at a normal thinking process? . . battle the people that need our help today. this is a battle about helping the people that need our help today without hurting the children of tomorrow. without rescuing them. if you talk about emergencies, without rescuing them. if you talk about emergencies, the fact that because we can't

spending, that our interest costs have gone up anothe another $128 billion this year, that's an emergency. the other thing is that we have over $300 billion worth of waste, of fraud, of duplication in the federal government every year. and so if you dispute it, you can say that there's only -- let's say it's half that. why wouldn't we get rid of that and pay for this rather than charge this intermediat intermediate $9.2 billion to these little children? i actually had the pleasure of meeting this little girl in my office after seeing this photo. an she's got parents, and they're worried. so what's her future going to be like? is she going to have the same opportunity i had? so what i would pause it for is

that we can do both. we can meet the needs of those that are dependent upon us now because of the economic downturn. and we i can protect her and all those of her generation. to not do so says we're going to take the easy way out. we're not going to act responsibly. we're not going to act like every other family in america acts. they look at what's there, what's the priority, what can we do and what can't we do? and then they make a decision about what's most important. and process that the -- the process the senator from michigan wants us to do, even though she agreed yesterday, is to not put a priority on it that considers both the short term

and the long term, that considers both the children as well as the unemployed. that considers both the future of our country and her opportunity for opportunity to take advantage of the freest nation in the world and her. the -- the real consequence to -- and let me say this. this isn't a republican-democrat thing. republicans have been irresponsible with spending too. you know, it's a whole new era now. everything's changed. it doesn't matter what party you're in. if we don't get ahold of the debt in this country, everyone is going to suffer.

and i have spoken on the floor yesterday, and i will reiterate it again, whether you call it filibuster, whether you call it obstruction as a grandfather of five children that is truly reflective of tons of grandparents out there and tons of grandkids out there, i'm not going to agree on the future to' somebody has to start saying no to the addiction we have that we just spend money on our problems. i would like to make unanimous consent request that the senate now proceed under unanimous

consent to hr 4916, provided that the only amendment be the text of which that the two-week extension we agreed upon of unemployment benefits that is paid for, that will not increase the debt, would agree to offsets from the finance committee, provided further that the amendment be agreed to, that it be read for the third time and with a motion to reconsider placed on the table. >> are there any objections? >> i reserve the right to object. i would indicate to my colleague that, from our perspective, this is an emergency and economic disaster for families right now. emergency spending to help families that are out of work. given that, i will object. the presiding officer: objection is heard. mr. coburn: well, mr. president,

i'm sorry that we have an objection. the fact is we agreed to it. and the fact is, as the senator from michigan is having to protect the house of representatives. she knows we're not going to go forward to this unless we pay for it until we get back. the only way for us to do that is through unanimous consent. the only way we're going to accomplish that is what -- is to agree to what we greed to yesterday and send it -- agreed to yesterday and send it to the house and let them do it by unanimous consent even though they said they won't do it. the fact is we agreed to it in the senate. we came to an agreement. and because the house has said they won't do it, they don't want to -- they want to increase the debt to do it rather than to do it and not increase the debt. i think that really speaks of where we are in the country. is we can't do this. we've agreed on a way to do it

in our body. and now we have, after we have an agreement yesterday, that maybe the house didn't like, but it actually solves the problem, and it solves the problem for these little kids as well as those unemployed in michigan and across the country, we now have the house saying, no, can't do it. i'm sor -- first of all, i -- i'm sorry. first of all i apologize to the senator from michigan for putting her in that position. and i sincerely do. but i think that we have to be recognizable of the fact that what it looks to be happening as both houses recess is it won't get done. and it won't get done because we can't not get it done. it won't get done because the house refuses to take a position to not add to the debt as we solve this problem -- as we meet both priorities, those people that are hurting and the priority of what's to come in the future. i think that's unfortunate for

us. i would yield the remaining time i have to the senator from georgia, which is only about two or three minutes. and then i make sure that folks on that side of the aisle knew it. i thank my dear friend from michigan, my colleague, senator stabenow, for yielding me this time. i know that later on this morning or early this afternoon there's going to be a unanimous consent request that the unemployment benefits be extended and that a bill be adopted. and it is critically important that that unanimous consent request be approved. and i'm going to speak now for a few minutes on that matter. we have thousands of people in our state of michigan who have lost their jobs, thanks to a crisis that was created in mortgage company boiler rooms and wall street boardrooms. and now they're suffering

because of the failure of our republican colleagues to understand the emergency situation. and i want to focus on that word "emergency." the emergency situation of those who have lost their jobs because of that crisis. this should not hard to deliver much-needed aid to people who are facing an emergency crisis. we have an unemployment rate in this country that is approximating 10%. we have an unemployment rate in our state of michigan that is over 14%. people need us to do the right thing and to extend these benefits. and here we are up against the wall of obstructionism again while thousands of our constituents, people in every state, wonder, what is it exactly that we're doing here that will deny the extension of unemployment benefits when we have a deep recession. we may be hopefully coming out.

there's some evidence we may be coming out. but not for this record number of people who are going to lose their unemployment benefits if we don't act. this is not an abstract policy debate here. these are real lives that are hanging in the balance. we've got more than 500,000 michiganians receiving unemployment benefits. we have 125,000 michiganians who will lose their unemployment benefits by the end of april if we do not act. so unemployed breadwinners now will continue to receive benefits only if we can find the will and the decency to act on their behalf. real people, real families coping with enormous problems. and denying this extension is simply inhumane. it's more than the families. we can talk about that. we can talk about the economy, which also benefits from these

unemployment benefits. in fact, the economists tell us -- and this has been extensively documented -- that government payments such as unemployment benefits are among the most economic stimulus. not providing that stimulus, in other words, has a negative effect on the entire economy. that's not the point that i want to reinforce this morning. it's the fact that we have an emergency in millions of homes, and that emergency needs to be recognized as an emergency. if it is, and i would hope our republican colleagues would agree it's an emergency, we then do not have to have the offsets which we 0 would if it's not designated as an emergency. our republican colleagues tell us that they're in favor of an extension, but they argue that it should be offset with cuts in other programs. in fact, one of the programs that they look for an offset in

is the american recovery and reinvestment act, their stimulus package. it's a pretty ironic flies look since that stimulus package is a job creator. in order to do the right thing and extend unemployment benefits, some of our republican colleagues attempted, and i guess continue to believe in that we should take funds from a stimulus package which most economists say is creating jobs, in order to pay for the extension of jobless benefits. if there's any wrong place to look for offsets, that would be it. but the main point here is not that it's the wrong offset. the main point here is that every single time we have extended benefits, we have seen in this body that it is an emergency out there. we have -- on june 30, 2008, in the 2008 supplement appropriations act, we deemed the extension of unemployment

benefits an emergency. it was designated as an emergency on be june 30, 2008. then when we funded unemployment benefits on february 17, 2009, we designated that extension cost as an emergency. december 19, 2009, when we extended benefits, this time it was in a defense appropriations act, it was designated as an emergency. on march 2 -- just a few weeks ago -- it was designated as is the emergency over. is the recession over? is that what the republican objections are suggesting? it is no longer an emergency? we've been in an emergency since 2008, but that is over now? i do not think the american

people see it that way. they see what is happening in their families and homes -- the crisis that continues to exist with the record levels of unemployment. i would hope that we would be able today to persuade our republican colleagues that they should not object to the extension of benefits, and to continue to declare the situation in which we find ourselves as an emergency, since it is so clearly one. >> the party activists held a rally in searchlight, nevada on saturday. sarah palin's spoke. we will show you that today at 6:00 27:30 p.m. here on c-span. -- 6:30 and 9:30 here on c-span. >> they are behind closed doors

where i cannot go. >> cbs news david martin on covering the military here in the u.s. and in iraq and afghanistan -- that is at 8:00 p.m. eastern and pacific. secretary of state hillary clinton and secretary robert gates met to discuss the spending for the wars in iraq and afghanistan. this is just under two hours.

>> the request totals $47.5 billion. it continues the operations in iraq, afghanistan, and pakistan. there was a request of $2.80 billion to support our humanitarian operations in haiti. the committee has not had an opportunity to review this matter, but we will do so over the coming weeks. to review the defense and international portion of the supplemental request, the committee is pleased to receive testimony from the secretary of state and secretary of defense, hillary clinton and robert gates. it is good to see you. we look forward to your responses to the questions we have. over nine years ago, in response to the 9/11 attacks, our nation embarked on a mission to rid

afghanistan of the taliban and al-qaeda and to work to ensure the security and stabilization in the region. once we entered iraq, many believe our efforts in afghanistan were shortchanged. we only now refocus on our primary missions -- the defeat of al-qaeda and regional stability. our renewed effort and focus, we have improved the strategy and we hope to be unable to restore regional stability and begin withdrawing our forces from afghanistan in the summer of 2011. the supplemental request before us provides the necessary resources for military and civilian surges, critical, as we are to achieve our goals. we look forward to hearing today

about the preliminary results of this surge. we look forward to hearing about the challenges you face in meeting the president's timetable. we have been at this war for almost a decade. we now have our eye on the target. at the same time, we're also seeing the spread of al-qaeda with cells in yemen and members in somalia and related activity elsewhere in africa. while we focus our efforts on afghanistan, pakistani, and iraq, we also need to allocate sufficient resources to curtail the growth of these terrorist cells. we cannot allow new safe havens to be created elsewhere as we tighten the stranglehold on al- qaeda senior leadership in afghanistan, pakistan. we hope to get assurances from both secretaries today that they understand these dangers and are

responding to these hot spots with immense efforts and focus. hopefully these issues will be among those addressed in your statements or the questions which follow. i would note to my colleagues that i recognize there are many issues which you may want to address and remind you that today's hearing is on our wartime funding requirements, and not on other matters. i would urge you to focus your questions on that topic. in addition, as you can see, we are many senators, all over the place -- press conference, on routes here -- en route here. we limit our questions to four minutes per senator. keep your answers as brief as possible.

secretary clinton in secretary gates, the committee thanks you for appearing today. without objection, your false statements will be made part of the record. i yield to the -- your full statements will be made part of the record. i yield to the vice-chairman. >> mr. chairman, thank you. i am pleased to join me in welcoming our distinguished witnesses to this hearing. the focus is on the immediate need to address the president's request for full funding for the mission that is now their suggestion as to how we can better achieve likely peace in the region. in due course, we can begin withdrawing some of the 30,000 troops that have been identified

as needed for the effort in afghanistan. we know that is going to cost money and we're anxious to get teh fac -- the facts about what those funds will be used for and justified the appropriations request that will be transferred to the full senate. let us know of any urgent, and met requirements that are not reflected or have not been discussed -- any urgent, unmet requirements that are not reflected or have not been discussed. i am sure we will move expeditiously. with respect to iran, we also appreciate your thoughts on the challenges that we face through iranian activities in afghanistan and iraq, and what that might mean for the needs

for additional funding as well. thank you for your distinguished service in the jobs you have. they are very important. we want to be helpful and this hearing will help us start the process in the right direction. thank you. >> i thank you very much. i call upon secretary clinton now. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman and vice-chairman. members of the committee, it is very good seeing you all, especially in this historic room to have this hearing. i thank you for the opportunity to testify alongside secretary gates, because we are very much committed to gather -- together on behalf of our military efforts in the front-line states. we do not think it can be separated. the challenges we face the man we draw on all the tools of

american leadership and american power -- the challenges we face demand we draw on all the tools of american leadership and american power. it has enabled us to more clearly understand the challenges we face. that is why we come to you with a $4.5 billion supplemental request. without this new funding in 2010, we will fall short in all three of the front on states. i am well aware -- of the front- line states. i am well aware of the economic straits you're in here at home. our quest addresses urgent demands to a dance our efforts to bring stability to afghanistan and -- to advance our efforts to bring stability to afghanistan and pakistan. we are implementing the strategy

president obama announced in december. success requires a fully integrated, civilian and military effort, in which security gains are followed immediately by economic and political gain. as new troops arrived, are civilian search has tripled the number of civilians on the ground. it is the civilian-led efforts that will translate the bravery of our troops into stability for afghanistan's and security for americans. the challenges are still great. the enemy is still determined. we are recapturing the momentum in afghanistan. new funds in 2010 will give us the capacity to move forward at a time when every day is crucial. let me briefly describe what we are currently doing in the area. marjah is just a proving ground. it is an encouraging story. our civilians were on the

ground within hours and days of the military operations. the set up a district support team that has already helped to open schools -- they said but district support team that has already helped open schools and a distributed aid to farmers. they have employed more than 1000 residents a day to cash- for-work projects. a u.s.a.i.d. air strip has allowed the ministry of agriculture officials to reach farmers. a u.s.a.i.d. contract is paying a woman-owned afghan firmer to rebuild the highways. the military offensive may get it right, but what happened behind-the-scenes is equally important. after clearing, we must hold, build, and transition. the residents there have made it clear they will judge the afghan government and us on our ability to help build enduring security and credible governments. are $2 billion request supports

efforts like those in march -- marjah. new assistance will help revitalize the agriculture sector, which is crucial to reducing poppy cultivation and drawing insurgents back into society. we have other programs as well. some help build capable institutions. these will work in connection with the national security forces, which i also urge you to fully fund. we maintain our focus on expanding women's opportunities, one of our best tools for combating extremism and spurring progress. our efforts are vital to success in afghanistan, but also to our own american security. we have made it a strategic priority to strengthen our partnership with the pakistani

people. i'm under no illusion that success in this arena will come quickly or easily. think about where we were one year ago. extremist or 100 miles from islamabad. they met little resistance. since then, the pakistani government has launched important offensives throughout the country. we are moving in the right direction. progress that we of made is possible only because we have demonstrated of -- the progress that we have made is only possible because we of demonstrated our willingness -- because we have a demonstrated willingness. we advanced our resolve. the three ends of me million dollars we request for assistance in operations -- the $300 million we are requesting will be for operations.

the humanitarian needs could make of these areas right for extremism. in much of the country, water, energy, and economic challenges are a problem. we need to scale up our efforts, especially in high-impact projects that visibly demonstrate our long-term commitment on helping the pakistanis build capacity while ensuring accountability. in iraq, we of different challenges. the election has been a great moment of opportunity to forge enduring partnerships, sustained by a strong, diplomatic president. are $2.10 billion supplemental request should be seen in light of the more than $15 million decrease in defense funding. as we prepare to move from a defense-led to a state-led mission, the new funding will allow us to make sure civilians

can make safely -- can work safely in still dangerous places. it allows us to move to a smaller state-administered program for police leadership. our support of iraqi civilian law enforcement is critical to the success of their new democracy. putting the supplemental together, i have had to make some tough calls and have some tough conversations about priorities. these decisions reflect those. the results of the request that addressed only urgent needs that are directly related to our security interests. these programs have been designed with careful attention to accountability and a determination to learn from past mistakes. waste and corruption are fundamental threats to our success. we are serious about combating them. we have more funds for strength in oversight, for reconstruction, and taking into

account the problems highlighted by the inspector general for iraq reconstruction. we will be working with the congress on updated benchmarks. just a report on haiti, mr. chairman. despite the work united states has done, there is still too much suffering. our building, along with the national -- international community, is an important commitment to the people of the bank and our hemisphere. a r $1.6 billion request, about 500 million -- of our $1.6 billion request, about $500 million will go to one part and the rest will go to our partners. i bank the congress for their ongoing bipartisan support -- i thank the congress for their ongoing bipartisan support. >> thank you, madame secretary. secretary gates?

>> mr. chairman, vice-chairman, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity this afternoon to discuss the defense department's portion of the fiscal year 2010 supplemental request. i am honored to appear with the secretary of state. our joint testimony reflects the close cooperation of our two departments and the importance of properly funding in integrating the civil and military approach to the challenges we face in iraq, afghanistan, and around the world. i would like to offer my strong support for the important programs funded in the state portion of the subliminal -- supplemental request. without them, the military portion will not be successful. in these times of economic stress, we all have pressured to be good stewards of taxpayer dollars, including our two departments. that is why president obama and i, in last year's and this

year's budget, made tough decisions about major programs that are performing poorly or were in excess to will world needs. however, even at a time of budget pressures, it is critical to sustain an adequate, sustainable level in the interest of national security. be it defense, diplomacy, or development. they are essential to america's security and position in the world. i recently returned from afghanistan. there, i had a chance to talk to military commanders, afghanistan leaders, and our troops serving at the tip of the spear in kandahar and helmand provinces. there are guarded reasons for optimism. as a afghan government shows an increasing willingness to take on additional responsibilities. nonetheless, there will be many long and difficult days ahead. it may take several months to produce visible results, as most

of the additional forces have not yet to arrive in theater and begun operations. i would also cautioned against an overly ambitious view of what true stability and security will look like in a place that has known nothing but war for three decades. for most africans come our roof over their heads an opportunity for their children -- for most afghans, a roof over their heads and at opportunities for the children would be considered a good life. the scale of international efforts and ambitions should reflect that basic reality. the fiscal year 2010 supplemental request for $33 billion for the defense department -- almost all of which to support obligations in afghanistan and the troops being deployed as part of the president's announced strategy. we remain on schedule to see overall u.s. troop levels reach

98,000 by the end of the fiscal year. the request includes $1.1 billion on top of the one. -- $11.3 billion already enacted to field and sustain the camera -- the m-wrap vehicles. the supplemental also contains $2.6 billion to strengthen the afghan national security forces. the goal of our strategy and effort is to create conditions that will allow for a full transfer of security responsibility to the afghan government. earlier this month, i visited the combined fielding center near kabul and had a chance to speak with afghan troops undergoing training. i told them it is their country and ultimately that is their fight to win. i know many have concerns about

the afghan national security forces. i share those concerns, as do our military commanders. they have made real progress over the last year. many afghan soldiers are shedding their blood for the country. increased afghan involvement is critical to success and is being demonstrated. significant work remains to be done with the police force. changes are under way which will heal progress. i would emphasize that as a slowing -- that successfully accomplishing the training mission is indicative of our long-term mission. it includes $12 billion to strengthen our iraqi security forces. these resources will be used to strengthen iraqi capabilities in the areas journal 0 dear no -- general 0 deodierno believes are

important. the money will not be provided directly to the iraq government. in haiti, as the president requested, the department is providing continuing support in the wake of january's earthquake. due to the urgent need for immediate response, we used funds from existing accounts with the understanding that these accounts would be replenished in the supplemental. as such, the $655 million is part of an amendment that was recently submitted to congress and will include funding to include these costs. these operations are fuel- intensive. due to rising prices, our fuel costs or greater than anticipated. included in this request is $2 billion to partially offset the resorting -- the resulting shortfall. we want to ensure uninterrupted operation. i should note that the department has moved most money for funding programs not

directly funding the war into the base budget. these are true supplementals, as originally attended -- intended. we're speaking primarily of the troop surge. i urge approval of this request by early spring to prevent costly and counterproductive disruptions to the department's operations. before closing, i would like to say a few words about the commanders emergency response program, which continues to be a powerful tool for military commanders in carrying out counterinsurgency operations in both iraq and afghanistan. general petraeus has called it the most important authority. i would urge you to fully fund the program contained in the department's budget request. having said that, i understand there are some concerns on this committee about the way the program has been used recently.

the department is currently performing in internal investment -- assessment, including certification -- consideration of a single department corridor, additional managers, and contract personnel in theater. increased pre mobilization and infantry training. execution -- it is fun -- it is unrealistic to expect that the program -to attain a zero-defect standard. in conclusion, i would like to thank the committee for your support of the men and women in the military who respond to national disasters and protect our interests around the world. i know their health, safety, and welfare will be your top priority in making these difficult decisions in the weeks ahead. >> i thank you very much, mr.

secretary, madam secretary. i will submit questions. i would like to ask one. recently, the vice-chairman and i submitted a request to the inspector general, together with the department's, to look over the contracts of the ash -- of the afghan national police training program. we all agree that the key components that must be in place would be an afghan national police force before we begin withdrawing. however, as you maybe aware, the inspector general came out with the rather negative report, criticizing the contract, and suggesting that the contract be held up. to me, that would seem like we

will not be able to move out on time. what are your thoughts on this? >> mr. chairman, if we're talking about the same contract, that was before it was implemented. it was protested then. the protest was upheld by the general accounting office. the contract has not been implemented. the contract has been extended with those who will continue their efforts. we have made changes to improve the terms of the contract, in terms of what we ask them to do. that is the current situation with the contract you're referring to. >> do you believe the criticism that we see in some publications has no bearing? >> as i understand it, the protest was grounded in the vehicle that was being used to let the contract and the protest

was that it was an improper vehicle for the kind of work that was being contacted for. that is my understanding of the key issue, at least in the protest. in terms of some other criticisms, i would have to look at them specifically. >> do you believe the time table is still in place on the withdrawal? >> yes, sir. the situation with this contract will not delay the training. >> senator? >> mr. chairman. mr. secretary, the budget request before the committee includes $2.6 billion for the afghanistan security forces fund. we're told it is for the purpose of accelerating the growth of the afghan security force. eight years of training, you would assume would get the

forces from where they are now to where we think they ought to be. we think that would be sufficient and their skills would be sufficient to help maintain, without so much active involvement of american or other forces, a pool of eligible, quality recruits to man the ranks of the army and police. is that what the administration is advocating here? >> yes, senator. i would just say that for the first several years, the size of the afghan national security forces and particularly in the army -- i'm going back to when i was not in government, so i may be wrong on some of the particulars -- but the initial planning for the ansf was for

forces that the afghan government itself could afford. in those first few years after 2001, it was limited to 5000 or so. the dramatic expansion of the afghan security forces began 34 four years ago. we are just -- three or four years ago. there were significant shortages in the resources available for training both of them. we have done better in terms of training the army, but there is still a deficiency in the number of trainers who are needed for both. as opposed to looking at it as an eight-year project that has just ramps up, i would say it is more of a project that has begun to look at significant numbers for both of the forces within

the last year or two. >> madame secretary, does your department not have the infrastructure and people in place to administer the programs that are needed now? they would be available for traditional military aid programs. what makes this a different kind of program to justify the increase in funding you are requesting? >> senator, are you -- your question could cover both iraq and afghanistan. in the case of iraq, we're taking responsibilities from the defense department. we are now fully equipped to do that without the additional funding. two aspects of that which are important -- one is that, as our troops leave, in accordance with the agreement entered into between the united states and iraq, they will be taking a lot

of their equipment and turning over certain facilities that are hardened. we have to harden our facilities for our civilians to be able to take over the continued police training. there is -- as we do this transition, there are certain adjustments that we'll have to be made, since we will not be able to rely on our military forces to protect our civilians, to end bed with them on existing military bases -- embed with them on existing military bases. that is where the additional cost comes in. we need to be ready to take on this additional responsibility as the military leaves. in afghanistan, as secretary gates said, there has been a decision to give the responsibility for police training to the military, which we fully support, because we are trying to get closer to something resembling a unity of

command, so that general mcchrystal and our other military commanders are able to coordinate. when they go into an area anmarja, -- an area like marjah, they have to be able to stand up the police force that will be there as our troops transition. there is a very close connection between the military and police training and a plan or. the defense department will take over that irresponsibility. -- the defense department will take over that responsibility. >> thank you. please limit your questions to about four minutes apiece. >> thank you, mr. chairman. first off, i am pleased to see secretary clinton and secretary

gates. you both know the high regard i have for you. you're doing superb jobs for our nation. i'm also glad to see -- and this is something i have talked with you both about privately -- the effort of the department of defense to have the department of state take over those things that are best-suited for the department of state. i have to figure out where the money goes when it is appropriated for fiscal year 2010 -- a total of $4.9 billion. this is for afghanistan, pakistan, and iraq. we received spending plans only a couple of weeks ago, without a great deal of detail. none of the funds have been spent. for fiscal year 2009, funds that

were obligated remain disbursed. you're asking for another $2.6 billion. i am worried when we deal with countries like afghanistan and pakistan, where there is enormous corruption. we're basically borrowing this money from other countries. among going too fast? what kind of control should we have -- am i going too fast? what kind of control should we have? po>> senator, we share your concerns and appreciate the opportunity to work with you as the chair of the appropriations committee that considers these requests -- the subcommittee that considers these requests. we are ramping up are spending and we are currently extending funds at an estimated $324

million per month. we are growing that to $400 million with projects that are starting up, in addition to continued support to quick disbursing to programs such as the afghanistan reconstruction trust fund that does have adequate funding filled in. we are trying to build in safeguards to have certifications so that we can hold entities that we contribute funds to accountable. it is an ongoing challenge. i am not going to sit here and tell you that it is not. >> the money cannot go to the army or two places that are violating human rights. -- or to places that are violating human rights. i am quite familiar with that law. can we say, especially today,

that the law has not been violated in either pakistan or afghanistan? i will close with that question and submit the rest of my questions. that is addressed to you both. >> let me say, first of all, on the non-human rights front, we are putting in new personnel. we are beefing up our presence in both afghanistan and pakistan, in order to have greater oversight, accountability, and monitoring of the funds. is this something we take very seriously. -- it is something we take very seriously. it has been challenging to get people in. we have made a lot of progress. we've quadrupled the number of people we have on the ground in afghanistan. in pakistan, that is one of the areas that secretary gates has been working on with the pakistanis, so that we can have a better oversight mechanism on the funding part of it.

i will let him respond to the second part of your question. >> we are very mindful of that amendment. i would just say, in this unclassified setting, that we're monitoring the situation in multiple countries very carefully. we have the attention of their leaders on the subject. if and when there are abuses, we expect that they will acknowledge the need to take action. >> where both referring to the same thing. i will not go into it -- we are both referring to the same thing. i will not go into it during this open session. i would appreciate being advised on this. it is a matter of some concern. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator. >> thank you.

i welcome you both because your joint appearance represents what we believe -- the only way we make progress is combining the military and the economic, diplomatic effort. i believe that the work that has been done by the national guard teams, which began in afghanistan in 2008, at the time when we tried to get the u.s.a.i.d. to go there and they could not. the national guard have made tremendous differences. i understand that they are now about -- there are now about 10 different state guard units in different provinces. i have heard first hand, many times, the importance of the

commanders emergency response program which have funded those efforts. not only those, but again, how successful the cirque -- cerp funds were to the counterinsurgency program street i am a strong supporter of that. i would caution -- counterinsurgency programs. i am a strong supporter of that. i would caution -- there are many security challenges still in iraq. i hope that the withdrawal of forces will be conditioned on the ability of the remaining forces to provide the security that is needed, not just for usaid and other state agencies, but for our allies there. i hope you will do that.

turning to a particular question, last year, mr. check in terry, you testified that the air force had over -- last year, mr. secretary, you testified that the air force had a certain number and that change. i have just seen in the defense news that they are -- there are less than 30 in southeast asia. there are reports that commanders are requesting more c-130's to relieve the burden on the chinook helicopters. what is the situation regarding that in southwest asia? >> what is the publication? >> this is defense news. >> they are better informed than i am, because i have not heard such a requirement from general mcchrystal or general odierno,

for that matter. i will ask a question following the hearing. >> they cited lieutenant general stevenson. i will follow up with you later. i do believe there is a need for a lift. i am concerned that we not overlook the needs, not only for strategic list, but for tactical aircraft -- strategic lifts, but for tactical aircraft. i am dubious about the reliability of those discussions. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. senator? >> thank you. it is good to see you both. i know how hard you are working.

i want to talk to about [inaudible] there is a three and $50 million request -- $350 million request. 200 million is for [inaudible] in addition to that, we're told in the committee that we may need up to 1000 personnel to man the prisons, and that they will live on the local economy. i am very concerned about the cost and security. i wondered if there is any effort to look at these costs,

considering that we as and hundreds of millions on guantanamo bay -- we have spent hundreds of millions on guantanamo bay and have built up courthouse for trying detainees eligible for trial. is there any thought about reconsidering this? especially in light of the costs. what is the thinking behind this effort? >> the administration is still committed to closing guantanamo. thomson appears to be the most likely civilian site. the costs you cite are substantial, but there are one- time costs. our latest estimates are that once the transfer is made the actual operational costs would

be several million dollars a year less than they are at guantanamo. for the long term, the operating costs would produce savings over keeping guantanamo open, despite the original construction costs. >> are you still believing that the 1000 people who would be the guards and personnel at the prison can be accommodated in the local economy? it is a pretty remote area, i am told. i have not been to this place in illinois. do you think that is going to add a significant cost? will there have to be future construction request for the housing of the guards as well? >> i would have to get back to you on the record about how much of the original cost