federal level sometimes to dampen enthusiasm at the state level, because there are all kinds of innovations there. we have not mention the pace program, margaret witte to incur rich energy efficiencies -- a great way to enter energy efficiency. we have had some success. >> a 20-year framework, the policy remains significant overtime. >> next question. i do not know where the microphones are. >> my question is for mr. rogers, but if anyone else has been incumbents, i would appreciate it barring carbon regulations cover the you envision a time frame for commercially viable smart grins on a national level?

. >> my judgment is that modernizing our grid -- we build our great with analog because that was the technology that was available. we produced electricity delivered 99.9% of the time. we moved to digital technology. that will enable the plug-in hybrid. that will enable our ability to manage solar on the roof top. we are prepared to make those investments, and we will make those investments. but what you find, what we are finding is that we started out looking at 900 different companies in the funnel. we dug into 250. and we tested the products of 100. we are piloting five. there are a jillion great ideas out there, but trying to get them narrowed down to the ones that really works is a challeng.

the real challenge is the immigration in egration in the . no one, each company has its own deal. there is no company in the historic suppliers like ge or siemens or abb this isn't where they make the big part of their money. so in a sense we are creating a capability of integrating the technologies and actually building the road map of how you upgrade your distribution and you create the apps beyond the meter and you tie it all together in communication. that is really the better way to talk about. i have tried to get away from using the word smart grid because everybody has a different definition. it's like 10 blind man standing

around an elephant trying to describe it. i try to narrow its to upgrade the grid, come up with the apps. >> a state regulatory commission that regulates price might not necessarily be the best government mechanism for a technology company looking to advance technology. it is one of those things that is probably outmoded. >> i would say maybe not. i am reluctant to challenge the president. [laughter] >> mr. chairman, go ahead. >> and that is, state commissions really understand the balance between affordable, reliable, and clean. you have to think about it as 50 different laboratories around the country. some of our states have been very supportive of us doing this in terms of smart, in getting the right incentives for energy efficiency. other states have said let's do

pilots. other states have taken different approaches. our point of view is that if we can't convince them of the value for in the consumer then it is our fault. so we are going to prove it one way or another because we believe deeply that it is the right thing to do. but i think it would be a huge mistake, and i know lisa hinted at this, having the federal government step in and mandate things. over the last hundred years state commissions have done it. that is why we have universal access where the real price of electricity is flat. that has been done by state commissions, and with the right charters they can also achieve this transition. >> i think this is kind of where the vision thing comes in. we don't need to know what color the cat is. it needs to catch mice. we already regulate gasoline based on performance standards. we don't tell bp which molecules

we want in it. we say we want them to explode this way when they are in your engine, and we don't want them to fly off into the air when they are lying on the ground. we have performance standards. there needs to be real-time pricing for consumers. i am interested in my scripts, but i am also interested in enabling the ron popeal. he is the pocket fisherman and the stovetop rotisserie. that is exactly what we want on the smart grid. we want the weirdest possible solution to air-conditioning that pulls an electoral load off the grid in the heat of the day. it is not necessarily going to be something that i come up with sitting in an office, and it is not right to be something to end comes up with sitting at the utility. it is going somebody sitting in

a trailer saying, we can do this differently. here is how. that is the opportunity. that is where the vision thing comes in. >> you started with subsidy. jim nailed it right. we need to move away from words like subsidy and instead and investing in our population and labor force and providing the incentive. one in the front. one in the back. >> we talked a lot about increasing the speed of innovation and ecosystems. how do we enhance, improve the

speed of our monetary analysis and feedback systems, so that we can also avoid some of the problems like we have seen with corn ethonal. we introduce some of these new untested technologies. >> you could have imagined the price of tortillas will be affected by energy decisions in the united states. >> actually, another example. we need to print think through e unintended consequences. you can't always identify them all. you need to have a little things in terms of solving it. take shell gas, which everybody calls the game changer. we don't quite know what the environmental impact is point to be of that yet. we know that water, from arizona y'all really know this. we have seen it all across our country. water could be the next oil in the 21st century. if shale gas takes an incredible amount of water with chemicals and the potential to contaminate

aquifers, we might find ourselves champion shale gas as a game changer. and at the end of the day find ourselves in the same trade-off. water versus fuel that we did with ethanol. so we really need to think your way through this and remember the lessons learned before. >> one of the things, i want to add, we have been urging the economic implications of every single project idea that they advance from science forward which is a new way of engaging in some of these things to catch some of that earlier. >> can i just say one thing? absolutely think, i spent three years on capitol hill. really inculcated this idea that you have to think about the whole system and the implications of technology beyond the immediate horizon.

but we also are susceptible to the way that what is sort of the convenient way to think about things. the whole corn, ethanol causing corn prices to increase is one of those little ideas that just as convenient and has stuck in our heads. every food economists that has looked at this problem has concluded that, in fact, those corn prices went up because of demand in china and india and the rest of the world, especially for their increase in need for meat and not for ethanol. it is an idea. it is often, often repeated, but i think especially with so many press in the room it is important to understand that that was not the cause. we absolutely need to pay attention to it. there are a lot of problems with corn ethanol. increasing food prices is not one of them. >> i read one other footnote. we bought sugar-based ethanol coming in from brazil, which would have been been a cheaper

alternative and a better alternative. we continue to block it today. so to your point we need to look at this comprehensively and understand if our true mission is to wean ourselves from oil then why not sugar ethanol from brazil? why block that? >> the reason -- >> i'm getting the signal. gary's comment is going to be the last comment. >> the reason is pretty straightforward. the whole corn ethanol episode has very little to do with energy policy. it is all to do with agriculture. the wto closing in on farm subsidies. there needs to be another way to deal with this problem, and that is the way it was dealt with. no energy person i know thinks that it had anything to do with energy policy. >> there is politics around agriculture in the united states? [laughter]

>> none. >> i'm sure their lobby did not have any influence on it either. >> let's thank our panel this morning. [applauding] we will make sure that everybody we have there e-mail addresses and so forth. you'll get the video. we will send you the web archive. so thank you for being here. we want to thank the new american foundation for working with asu to advance this. hopefully we have some good ideas generated here today. thanks a lot. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> you're watching public affairs programming on c-span. up next, president obama in maine promoting the health care bill. after that, a discussion on health care costs and the federal deficit. on tomorrow morning's

"washington journal," a conversation on the implementation of the health care bill with julie appleby of kaiser health news. after that, rayola dougher on the offshore drilling announcement by the obama administration this week. then an update on the economy including the latest jobs numbers with greg robb of "market watch." "washington journal" every day at 7:00 a.m.. later in the day, president obama travels to north carolina to deliver a message on the economy. live coverage begins in charlotte at 11:30 a.m. eastern. >> now president obama in portland, maine talking about the new health care law. he is introduced by karen mills, a native of the state of maine. this is 30 minutes.

>> ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the administrator of the u.s. small business administration, karen mills. [applause] >> i'm karen mills. i live in brunswick. can we hear it for brunswick? but i work in washington. i'm the head of the small business administration. [applause] now this is a special day for me. because a year ago today, it was my first day on the job.

[applause] one year. and there is no place that i would rather be on this anniversary than in my home state of maine with all the small businesses in this crowd who is waiting to hear from our president, barack obama. [applause] you know, i've traveled all around the country and i've heard from a lot of small business owners. small business owners think of all their employees as their family. they want to take care of their family and the number one concern is finding affordable health insurance. [applause]

one small business owner told me that the day she was able to provide health insurance for herself and her employees, that was the day she decided that her business was successful. [applause] now she is just one example of people like you who spoke up and made your voices heard in washington. people who value fairness and common sense and hard work. people who value the health and wellbeing of your community and people who keep your eye on the goal and don't give up in a tough environment. [applause] yeah.

so you spoke up and now we have one of the most important pieces of legislation in decades. yep. [applause] it's going to be good for me. it is going to be good for maine's seniors and it is going to be really good for maine's 35,000 small businesses. [applause] you know, i don't always meet people in washington that share maine's values. but i heard from one person a couple of weeks ago. he was giving a speech to some members of congress who were about to vote on this bill. he asked them to stand with him

and he said, we are not bound to win but we are bound to be true. he wasn't just encouraging them to make the right decisions. he was telling them something about himself. he showed us that he was courageous. he showed us how connected he is to people like you. and he showed us that this was our opportunity to change people's lives for the better, for generations to come. [applause] in other words, he was showing us that maine's voices, and maine's values can make their way all the way to washington and have an impact.

[applause] for the past year, i have been proud to call that person my boss. [applause] so ladies and gentlemen, please help me welcome our president, barack obama! [applause] [hail to the chief] ♪

[applause] >> hello, portland! thank you. thank you! thank you for this.

[chanting yes we can] >> thank you. thank you. thank you, everybody. thank you. thank you so much. thank you. thank you, everybody. well, what a wonderful -- i guess when the sun comes out around here, everybody gets pretty excited. [applause] i love you back. [applause] >> the last time i was in maine was before the caucuses. it was a little cooler here. as i recall. but it is wonderful to be back. there are some people i want to

say a few nice things about. first of all, we could not have a better small business administrator than your own neighbor, karen mills. and so please give her a good round of applause. [applause] she is doing a great job. i think she has more than a few folks from maine on her staff. she's got a -- all over the place. everybody is doing a great job over at the s.p.a. i want to thank one of the finest governors in the country. [applause] thank you, john. where is he? there he is, right there. thank you.

your outstanding mayor is here. [applause] and we've got two great champions from maine, whose tireless efforts have helped working families all across this state and all across this country, congresswoman -- [applause] >> all right. it is good to be back in maine. and i want everybody to remember. when i came here during the campaign, i made a promise, and it wasn't a promise about any particular issue. it was a promise that our government would once again be

responsive to the needs and aspirations of working families, of america's middle class. it was a promise that washington would concert itself not just with the next election but with the next generation of americans. [applause] keeping that promise is even more critical now. at a time when so many families and so many small business owners are still struggling here in maine and all across the country. every time i visit with workers in a factory or families, every time i sit down and read letters from americans throughout the country, i see and hear the same questions. folks are asking, how am i going to find a job when i've only known one skill my entire lifetime.

i just got laid off and i'm in my 50's. how am i going to retire when i keep spending my savings just to get by and try to make sure that my kids can go to college and tuition keeps on going up. how am i going to make it when i'm stretched to the limit on my mortgage and all my bills. those are the questions that i hear. i want you to know that we are working every single day for job creation and to turn this economy around. that's why we worked so hard over the last year. one to have biggest burdens facing small business owners is the crushing cost of health care right here in america. [applause] and mainers, i want you to know that last week after a debate and a century of trying, health insurance reform became the law of the land. [applause]

last week, -- [chanting yes we can] >> yes, we did. because of folks like shellie and mike, it happened. because of people like you, it happened. it happened because people had the courage to stand up at town hall meetings and talk about how insurance companies were withdrawing their family's coverage because of pre-existing conditions. how premiums had gone up 50%, 70%, 100% in some cases forcing

them to give up their insurance. it happened because countless small business owners and families and doctors shared a story about a health care system that was working better for the insurance industry than it did for american people. and when the special interests sent an army of lobbyists to congress and blanketed the airwaves with millions of dollars in ads all of you organized and refused to give up. one the pundits were out and saying who is up and who is down, what does this mean for democrats or republicans, you never lost sight of what was right or what was wrong. you knew it wasn't oort the fortune of one -- about the fortune of one party. it was about the future of our country. [applause]

and today, portland, because of what you did, the future looks stronger and more hopeful than it has in some time. now over the last year, there has been a lot of misinformation spread about health reform. there has been a lot of fear mongering. a lot of overheated rhetoric. you turn on the news. you see those same folks hollering about it before it passed are still hollering about how the world will end because we passed this bill. this is not an exaggeration. john boehner called the passage of this bill -- [booing] >> we don't need to boo. he called the passage of this bill armageddon. another said this is the end of freedom as we know it. so after i signed the bill.

i looked around. [applause] i looked up at the sky to see if asteroids were coming. i looked at the ground to see if crack had opened up in the earth. you know what? it turned out it was a pretty nice day. [applause] birds were still chirping. folks were strolling down the street. nobody had lost their doctor. nobody pulled the plug on granny. nobody was being