>> and it is not always about people wanting to work part- time. it is about having that little bit of control over your schedule. >> right. >> doug, you can answer a lot of questions for us. are you rolling your eyes? >> i can try. >> we're counting on you. >you have a diversity and flexibility of a priority and have seen some of the benefits. give us an overview of what you found as you have tried to move to a policy at your company that is more focused on results and on letting people work the way they want to work. >> first of all, we are anchored at have been for 140 years in one of the most challenged but spirited cities in the united states, and that is hand --

camden, new jersey. we're trying to attract workers to come work for our company and compete with world class companies from the who's who in consumer packaged goods. so we believe we have to create a very compelling employee value proposition to attract development and retention. i think you're absolutely right that it is hard to create an environment where people are trusting enough to have. we believe you have to demand that with high performance. we believe if you create a high trust culture, a friend of mine says the trust is the one thing that changes everything. it changes conversations, and we recently did the survey, and i would say 85% of our employees

are comfortable having a conversation with the manager about it. you can do amazing things in diversity or workplace flexibility or business performance. encouragingly, as we have leaned into this workplace flexibility and diversity notion, we can improve sales every year through the depression -- as the recession. it feels that way. but through the recession. we have record high return on invested capital numbers. we're proud of our business performance, but it has been accompanied by a new life with our culture built on trust, built on employee engagement, and it is interesting when mrs. obama said. we promise campbell telling people and people valuing in campbell. we cannot ask them to value our agenda until we'd demonstrate to them tangibly their agenda.

it is basically what she was talking about. she said we value their agenda, and guess what, they do even better work for us. we have discovered that at campbell. its tangible commitment to helping someone deal with their workplace situation, the number one issue is workplace flexibility. so we have to address it. the good news is we do, and the more we do, the better we do. it is an absolute delight to watch those contributions built on one another and spiraling into something that is very exciting. >> people often do not believe me when i talk among companies and the increases in productivity they have seen. best buy, in some trials, have seen a 40% increase in productivity. or capital one. it is startling. it sounds as though you are saying the same thing. you think it is linked. >> we see it everyday. not only in the numbers. we see it in the spring and the

step. there is an energy that is palpable. for every one -- two people we had very engaged in war, we had one person looking for a job. which is not quite world class. world class is 12 people for every one person looking for a job. last year we were 23 people with a spring in their step for every one that was looking for a job. and you feel it. you feel it when you walked in. we do track it. we are maniacal about measurements, as every business has to be, right? but at the same time, -- so we get the metrics. but we also see an attitude, and you were kind enough to invite beth to come along. she works with me at campbell. at 3:42 p.m. in the afternoon they asked me to bring someone along. with true flexibility, she was able could join us and talk about her personal experiences.

>> so i want to see the spring in your step. [laughter] when we were talking earlier, you tell me that you have had a flexible work arrangements for about five years. your oldest child is five years. were you scared to bring that up initially? and campbell's is a great company, but even so, was that a frightening prospect when you're looking at how you were going to make it all work? >> the situation happens when my first son was born, and selected the day care and felt very happy about it. i was pleased with the facility. unfortunately, there were not able to accommodate him on wednesdays, at least for the first month. i was ready to come back to work. i was on maternity leave. i told my boss the situation. i said i would love to come back to work right now. however, i do not have care for my son on wednesdays. would you mind if i worked from home on wednesdays and we will

see where it goes from there? without hesitation, he said absolutely, no problem. can you come back monday? so here is a man who had four sons himself. he knew what it was about. it created a culture where he was able to tell me that and not hesitate. while it was a challenge and nerve wracking, it was what i had to do, to provide for my family and to take care of my son and to follow the career path that i set out for myself. >> how is it for you in making flexible work work? it is not always an easy task. >> it certainly is not. there's so many myths out there that are just not reality. if i am working from home, i actually am working. it is not as if i am out doing something else. i am on my computer, on my phone, on conference calls. i can still participate fully. my face is just not in the

office. that has been a challenge. the of the perception that is wrong, i think, and particularly ed campbell's, is that if you're on a flexible work schedule, and diet do it twice a week -- i do it twice a week for my children, but many women are concerned that if they do something like that, there will be passed over for promotion. there was a role that was created at campbell's that would have been a higher grade level promotion for me, it had a conversation with my husband and said, well, i would probably be willing to give that up, but let's see how it goes. unbeknownst to me, the head of our department had already brokered my flexibility arrangements with who was going to be my new boss. so when they presented me with the offer, they said, congratulations, here is the role, and by the way, we no buy your flexibility arrangement, and we see no reason why that should not continue.

>> they knew how to motivate you. >> absolutely. >> any show the kind of sincerity and earnest desire to be helpful, and we have beth for life. [laughter] >> exactly. >> that is what i thought. >> you heard it here. there are a lot of -- everybody has a different idea about what flexibility means. there are so many different sorts of flexible work arrangements. you talked about one in the report which is the ultimate, which is the focus on results. can you tell us a little but how -- about how they break down? >> absolutely. it can be everything from working four days or maybe longer hours and a shorter day on the fifth day. you might start earlier and earlier. it can be any range of things like that. working from home can be part of it. but you're right, there are lots

of other arrangements. before i had this job, i was a college professor. and it is the ultimate results- only work environment. you're judged on your course evaluations and what you published. if you're not of their sound is, that is fine. all they're looking at is what you do. it meant so much to me. i have three children. and it meant i was able to be there for the school plays and when someone was sick. it made all the difference in the world. and i even had some of the same experiences thebeth had. i had an offer to leave my employer, but one of the things that kept me there was remembering how good they were to me when my children were little and how they had judged me fairly. it is something that is important. i was struck by -- i love the symbol at campbell's. because we often think that yes,

college professors have flexibility. there's an idea in the manufacturing firms cannot flexibility. but we often think of small businesses. i know karen millses here. can they really have flexibility? one of the things that we found is actually, if you look at the results, small businesses seem to be even more flexible. that kind of goes against some of the perceptions. >> a lot of the women are starting small businesses. they're leaving the big firms in starting small businesses. they are flexible. secretary, we should talk about the lower wage workers. there is a lot of focus on it being much easier for companies to give flexibility to professional men and women and people who can work from home in computers and have the jobs that allow for that. but there is a great need, probably even a greater need, for flexibility in the different areas, working on an assembly

line, working on a shop floor. the way you grew up with your parents -- i mean, people need some flexibility. i listened to a lot of companies struggling with how to provide a little more autonomy. is there hope on that front that you have seen a question mark -- that you have seen? >> you never heard about best practices that help our manufacturing organizations and businesses when they have that trust with their employee. that they can negotiate or have that discussion without fear of retaliation were somehow losing hours are losing their jobs. those come to us in many instances. we find it is better when you can show that you are open to listening and having a discussion with the employee, especially a woman. she may be the single head of household with issues with child care. maybe she has to come in to work on public transportation. so many things are affecting

many of our low skill and low wage earners rainout. it cuts across the board. having better facilities for child-care availability and may be giving up some time in the morning and saw that person can come in a little later and say later or maybe making of time on the weekend. the other thing i see now is that people who want to get into another career and want to go to community college at night or the weekend, it is not that easy because they're still struggling with trying to find that flexibility. we do have challenges, but i think the more we learn about what good entrepreneur hours are doing and examples, that will help provide more relief for people. the bottom line is productivity. if you actually reward that employee, they will not produce anybody else. you will want to keep them longer and will want to nurture that relationship. for most working families, we figure out how to deal with this. i grew up in a big family, and at a very early age my mother

had to go to the work for the first time. i was 10 years old and my older sister and i had to each take care of the set of twins mother had that were unexpected. so i had to be a mother at 10. in those days, they do not have the pampers. that was on my mind that there has got to be something better. [laughter] >> a very nitty gritty discussions. pampers, breastfeeding, it is all great. >> that is right. we think about flexibility these days in elder care, child care, women in the labor force. but there is increasing returns for higher education and a change in the nature of the jobs we will have. instead of having one job in a lifetime, it's typical worker will probably have five jobs. it involves a lot of retraining and relearning. so for many men and women, the reality is they will need to be lifelong learners, and the flexibility to get into a

community college or get more training is productivity enhancing, but it is so important for all workers. >> we have not really mentioned the other important factor, and that is that males, the spouses, because of the recession, many in construction and other areas have lost their job. they are home. some are stepping up to the plate. but many need to understand that there's so many resources they can tap into to help their families and they do not have to be frustrated. i think there are a lot of good examples of that. we up to make sure the people work together as a team. if interest in we have to be adaptable and flexible. >> i would add to that but i think there is another cultural shift that has to take place. when a child is sick or a parent needs to go to the doctor or whatever, it should not the fault of the woman because she is a woman. it is important to have a good support system.

i know -- of one of my children is sick, my husband and i take out our blackberries and look at our calendars to see what each one of us has, and then we make the decision that way as to who gets to stay home. >> my husband is here, so i hope he is listening. right, honey? [laughter] >> doug, the benefits of flexibility are clear, but they're obviously a lot of challenges. we talked a little bit about the fact that you are looking out how to bring this to the manufacturing operation in your company, and there's not an easy answer yet for that, is there? >> no, there's not. we have created a company with a spring in its debt. along with ago, but it has positive momentum. people joined the company, and they leave a manager. they leave a specific situation. what we find is we have to find ways to make sure that the managers are able to have those

conversations with the people that want to talk to them. while 85% of our people are inclined to want to talk, the managers are still very uncomfortable with those conversations. we're finding we have to do training and role-playing with how your groin to talk about things because they have never had these conversations before when you this middle management ranks. that is one challenge. the other challenges in manufacturing. our manufacturing team, if you remember the "i love lucy" skit where she is on the chocolate line and one person makes a mistake in that line, and it all goes down. in our manufacturing operation, it has to run like clockwork. the teams have to be working together. it is part of somebody pulls out. we have not been able to crack the code in manufacturing like we have in virtually every other disciplines like sales, marketing and all the world headquarters facilities. manufacturing is a challenge

area. we are making progress. but that is the other challenge. >> i have seen some studies that show that the more autonomy people have in setting their schedules, even if they have to be in one place the whole time, if they feel they can have input and setting their schedule, that that goes a long way. >> it does, and we actually have that in our manufacturing operation. i just wish we could create more flexibility there. it is just harder. but we will find a way. >> we actually have a great case study in our report looking at kraft foods. shift work is the classic, and it is hard. it's an addition not be hard, but oftentimes, workers have to take vacation in a whole week. one thing we talk about is a program or you brought back retirees were like a trained substitutes and give workers the ability to have one day

vacations if they had that doctor's appointment or need chemotherapy or something. it is a small change. it seems to be working for them, and their employees love it. so there is an example in a manufacturing firm. >> and we can build on that. people are amazingly resort -- resourceful and all you have to do is give them a room to deal with it. we did this engagement survey were, and we look it over 282 work groups. the best way for us to get results as to allow each working group to deal with their own issues and figure out how we can create flexibility and actually improve our output. it is amazing what they come up with. as long as we get out of the way, we make sure it is principle-centered and stays within the broad band of policy. if you create flexibility for people, they will find their way through. you just have to get out of their way. >> one of the the things we were talking about is that a lot of managers are afraid of this. they are afraid because they do not know how to talk about it.

what are the challenges for you, as an employee benefits from this? what you find is most helpful to make it work smoothly? a lot of people say flexibility is a two-way street. the employee has to be flexible also. >> and get my example about needing to be out of the office on wednesdays. that was a short four-week time frame. it ended up that wednesday was my day i worked from home. there are meetings at campbell soup company that happen on wednesday. so i have to be prepared to shift and say if i need to be there on wednesday, perhaps i can take friday. so i need to be creative in my solution. also, having to get the people that i reported to comfortable with calling me in contacting me when i was working from home. i remember that that -- the first time the phone rang and it was my boss. i looked at the caller id and

was light, so it -- oh, my god, it is her. then i thought, should probably answer the phone. i did. without skipping a beat, she went right into what i needed to do. i told her the story later. she thought it was the funniest thing ever. and it was simply because i was paranoid. the other challenge, too, is now that i have this team of people that work for me, it is a matter of them having access to me. so and if it is a cell phone versus a phone -- home phone or through instant messaging, the solution is with the technology and having a great technology infrastructure to unsupported. once you have overcome the initial hurdles, it is a fairly seamless process. >> one of the big questions a lot of people ask is, isn't a recession the exact wrong time to be talking about this? how can we talk about flexibility when people are losing jobs? what i found in reporting for my

book, it might be the exact right time to talk about it. we have sat down with a lot of the ceo's who have said this is the moment when companies need to be more flexible and more creative about the way they reward their employees. they may not have the cash on hand for big bonuses, but they can offer time and look for a myriad of reasons. it seems this could actually be more beneficial right now. >> the big picture is there is a big trend that will be continuing, and it is an issue we will be facing for a long time. we're certainly starting this process a very much now. you are right, there are certainly a lot of creativity these days. we have also seen a lot of productivity growth in our firm. but i think stress does tend to force people to think of some different ways of doing things. one of the things is that we see them using more flexible

work times. sometimes it is very much by necessity. can we reduce everyone's hours as a way of keeping more people attached to the firm or least with some job? i hope we at least recover. >> secretary, a lot of people assume the flexibility means women. and women, to be fair, have certainly probably driven this process. but when you start looking at the younger generation, the young men valued is every bit as much as the women. it is not a female issue, is it? >> right, and i think, you know, michelle obama says a very clearly. it is a necessity. it has to happen. we have to have this flexibility for everyone. we are in the situation now where we have families or people are now coming back to a home and people having to stay in the workplace launder to take care of the elderly and a younger

generation of men up defined job yet because the recession is where it is because they have multiple factors going on, and different things happening in the household, and we need to be supportive. that is why i am very happy that this year in our budget and the department of labor, we're going to be putting forth competition for states to participate to begin the planning process. we will be giving grants out, $50 million. some states are already there. our state, california. but we need to incentivize states on the cusp. a the there's a lot of interest, and it is a good time to do it. now when productivity is at its highest, we often need to be very mindful but you do not want to lose that talent. you probably have some very good skilled people that want to stay that job and will do more to provide them with the opportunity to have flexibility and adaptability in the workplace. >> doug and beth, it is so clear to me have expense so much time on this issue, it is a no-

brainer. it makes sense. it is hard to understand what company would not be pursuing this. but it also seems that in addition to men and women being scared to ask for flexibility, companies are often frightened of the prospect of diving into something like this. they worry nobody will show up to work. they wonder who will take advantage of it. they do not really know how to the managers on board. how do we overcome the fear factor of flexibility for companies that are not as involved in it? >> well, first of all, there has never been a good time. i have been doing this for 34 years. and every year is different. there's never a good time to pursue workplace flexibility. what was it, saturday night live with roseanna danna -- as was starting to dig myself here. but she would say, it just goes to show you, it is always something. in corporate america, it is

always something. what is beautiful about this in a challenging the way is that it is a necessity. and corporate america will deal with it because it is a necessity in has to be dealt with. we have issues with our work force. we have issues with attracting and retaining talent. so in my opinion, corporate america will deal with it because we have to. how do you deliver fear? i think the companies in the league will realize the benefits. you just have to do it with fierce resolve and no compromising. as we do, and their other companies the way ahead of ours in this room today. people, take notice. we do pay attention to what the others do. we do benchmark. believe me, this wave is going to continue and build on itself because it is undeniable. >> what about you, beth -- what advice do -- would you give to companies and the police that are worried about asking for flexibility? >> companies can work to create

an environment where employees look comfortable about it. we did this thing called a flexibility fair, where we had one of our senior human- resources professionals sit where you could go up and talk to him with questions on how to have this conversation. and he referenced the survey we did. this is all part of a volunteer coalition task force that came together, and they're people who are passionate about flexibility. with the combination of creating the awareness that is fair and doing the survey, we got the back saying thank you for just asking about my ideas for flexibility. i know that may or may not happen for a lot of reasons, but just the fact that you cared enough to ask me what my opinion was went along with our employees. it is that feedback that we have worked into helping design the curriculum so our managers can have these kind of conversations. >> and you have to deliver on

the feedback. the good news is you ask and they tell you. then you have to do it. and we will. that is part of the contract to have when you ask people. >> i think we do in the -- need to realize there is a fair amount of heterogeneity across firms. it will be very hard for a schoolteacher to ever telecommute. i think we need to understand that there will be differences across the economy. but i want to put in a plug for information. so what firms are doing, getting the best practices out there, and put in a plug for research. i think it is a big part of getting over this hump, just documenting with the productivity affects our. i think that will help deal with a lot of the uncertainty. >> i think you all have your work cut out for you. research, best practices. we're counting on all of you. thank you for lending us your wisdom and warmth and expertise on this. i know you all know where to go now for your breakout panels.

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