understand their credit agreements. the fundamentals for that are consumer education. it is not do any good to be able to read them if you cannot integrate them into your own life every day. i think is an integral part of what this is about. it will give a home to consumer education. >> this is something if you survey the population, there bali enthusiastic. we want to have forms that we can understand. we want to have an agency whose only job is to look out for consumers. and yet it seems to be the most controversial parts of a complex bill. it is surprising. we will have to work hard to make sure that it stays strong and central. >> there's a strong market

argument for consumer protection that does not get as much attention as it should. consumers cannot understand what they are buying or the price. they cannot make economically rational decisions. they do not know which credit card is the most expensive. they will not make an economically rational decision. that undermines the market. there's a strong market argument there. it does support the markets to have consumer protection and disclosure included. >> we will wrap it up. thank you very much. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> this week, moot court on the hypothetical case on whether non-citizens can be denied a life-saving vaccine.

the judge from the d.c. circuit court of appeals and ken starr. "america and the courts" today on c-span. >> on sunday, a look at the health care law with alexander heffner and jonathan strong. there will be a discussion of consumer scores and reports consume with stuart pratt. "washington journal" is live at 7:00 a.m. eastern here on c- span. >> flexible policy makes employees more productive. instead of spending time worrying about what is happening at home, your employees have the

support and peace of mind that they desperately need to concentrate on their work. >> at the news c-span video library, you can search and share. there are over 160,000 hours of video from yesterday or last year. every c-span program since 1987. the c-span video library is cables latest gift to america. >> the commission on wartime contracting held a hearing on the reduction of the work force in iraq. there were remarks from private contractors working in that country. this is just under two hours.

as a commission, that is what we're interested in. mr. horn, you have 15 minutes. you can use it anyway you wish. i was trying to get you help with ice. i am sorry you are not taking it. >> i am douglass corn. -- i am douglas horn. the departments of defense, state, and a homeland security. this includes overseeing project management and the provision and support in functional areas. i joined kbr in june of 2004 as a deputy manager for operations.

i oversaw all operations, maintenance, logistics, construction, engineering, security, and training for the operations in eight countries for one year. i then returned to be a leader in the product service line. i have spent my adult life serving this country. as that the entirety of my career before that in the military. i am retired colonel. during my 20 years of active duty, i had numerous opponents, including the gulf war, multiple partitions in bosnia and haiti. i hold a degree from texas a&m and a master's degree in engineering. and a graduate -- i am also a graduate of the army of the armed forces. i became the principal program manager for the middle east and central asia in december 2008.

he had previously been the deputy program manager for operations until july of 2007. he also spent a vast majority of his career in the military serving his country. he served for 35 years and army culminating with assignments as the commanding general of the first u.s. army and the fourth infantry division. >> mr. horn, this never happened before. in my disappointment that he did not take my advice, this is never happened before. i need you to stand up. i need both of you to stand up. that is my mistake. i apologize. do you solemnly swear the testimony you did today will be the truth and nothing but the truth? >> i do. >> for the record, both have responded in the affirmative. >> we welcome the opportunity to appear to support the commission in fulfilling its mission in

identifying ways to improve the current contracting system. kbr looks forward to helping the commission identified lessons learned and focus recommendations that will enable positive change for the process. kbr has worked with the commission from the outset providing requested information and testimony. we have participated in meetings and briefings domestically and abroad. kbr recently welcomed the commission's staff to our houston offices for three days. kbr has been proud to serve the government and military since world war ii. our mission has taken us around the world. kbr is one of many contractors providing support for the u.s. and coalition forces in afghanistan and elsewhere across the globe.

in my testimony, i will focus on some of the specific issues identified by the commission. i will describe our efforts leading up to the transition of the current footprint in rock -- iraq. i will discuss work force sizing, our procedures for assessment on contract matters that relate to increase efficiency. i will discuss ongoing issues related to the transition. i will provide our recommendations for improving contract support in management and procedures. it is important to discuss the unique operational challenges inherent in a war zone. there also challenges imposed by competing governmental priorities. stability inherent in normal contracts is not possible in a worse on -- in a war zone. this is something kbr and the

commission should agree on. the structure of contracts is often at war with the reality of the environment. the military has constant changing needs and requirements. as we discussed the drawdown, it is important to make clear that contractors cannot receive guidance until the military has finalized plans in the government translates the impact of those plans on contract services. this is a fact of life. another challenge we face in balancing competing priorities has to do with the military and the oversight duties. we have to react with speed t mr.to meet emission requirements. contingency contract has the contractors often finding

himself in the middle of competing priorities. the government and contractor live by policies and procedures to ensure compliance with the requirements. greater flexibility with better serve the service members by facilitating our ability to react. improving the process calls for coordination among the military, contract management, and the contract. it is important to keep in mind that although kbr is the only contractor here today, it is only one of many contractors facing the same challenges. i would like to set the stage for the transitional efforts by providing an overview of the kbr footprint. before we began transition activities, we supported the military. operation with a permanent presence in iraq at 105 locations. in afghanistan, we had 63 locations that provided support

at 34 locations. in kuwait, we had a permanent presence in eight locations. since that time, we've successfully transformed the support work. we're currently successfully transitioning the work in afghanistan. it is important to address the challenges we have encountered. during the transition, we've expressed challenges because of the changing operational environment. we've been challenged to produce a precise plan when the military is adjusting its own plan. our plan needs to be consistent with the military plan for our services to be provided when and where they're needed. we must receive written directions from the contracting officer. without properly issued contract documentation, we are unable to proceed. based on our experience in closing in transitioning bases, we know that closures and transitions are very fluid in nature. we appreciate your in a complex environment.

to prepare meaningful plans, we require a definitive guidance from the government on the level of service and support of population. without these details, kbr must make its own assumptions to continued internal planning. kbr cannot finalize a supporting plan until we have the by that plans with the specifics of the government. during the iraqi drawdown, we have three overlapping lines of operation. continuing services, base closures, and transitions to other performance contractors under a variety of vehicles. the air force documentation program is included in those. resources must match the mission throughout the drawdown. a synchronized plan with the government is critical to the successful provision of services. we continue to engage closely

with the government incoordination of our planning efforts. it is important to address how kbr manages workforce sizing and how this is affected by military force reductions. kbr is managed its support of the drawdown through a detailed, organized process-driven system. our first priority is to insure that we provide high-quality logistics support during the entire drawdown process. it is helped provide historical context so that the commission can appreciate how kbr is handled the size of its work force. it was told to increase hiring of staff and rep. it required kbr to freeze hiring and staffing at the existing estimate levels and fill all open personnel requisitions by realizing -- utilizing personnel affected by other closings.

kbr has followed this directive. reports seem to indicate a should be a one-to-one relationship between the drawdown of u.s. forces and the drawdown of logistical support personnel. in other words, for every soldier that leaves, an equal number of kbr personnel should also leave. these reports are wrong. i would like to explain why. in the beginning of 2009, the government in last 400 locations in iraq. only 55 had eighta logcap prese. only 16 of the more than 200 bases closed or sites that had been supported by kbr. many of the military sta personnel stationed at smaller sites were supported by kbr. logistical support requirements at some sites have increased as

military forces consolidate from non-kbr sites to those that are served by kbr. with regard to measures of performance related to the drawdown, we measure our performance based on the compliance with contractual requirements. attracts a long list of metrics and actions to make sure that we meet expectations and commitments. to date, all closures have been completed on time. the government convened a performance evaluation board every month to evaluate our performance. kbr has a quality control plan with which it executes its work. the government approved the plan. for each year, kbr has

updated and resubmitted the plan to incorporate lessons learned from the prior year. the continuing pla-- drawdown effort requires effort, coordination, and cooperation from many different government organizations, including military leadership in theater. the defense contract management agency, the program office, in the contracting officials. to keep pace with the rotations of government personnel, we record date when they rotate. kbr appreciates the opportunity to be here today. kbr has provided a number of recommendations at past hearings. it is also provided recommendations in meetings and briefings with staff. we think is important to focus on one specific recommendation today. that is to have the government speak with one voice with respect to contract

administration practices and procedures and contract audit practices and procedures. kbr is currently supporting numerous agencies. various agencies attempt to perform their roles of oversight without any coordination of their efforts. kbr as noted in the past that it is critical to the government speak with one voice. the interim report focuses on thspeaking with one voice. it is critical to include all government entities. kbr remains proud of its work that it performs in a rock and around the world and its support to the brave men and women that we support. our employees perform their jobs and unpredictable conditions at great sacrifice to themselves and their families. we appreciate opportunity to provide our perspective on how the contingency contracting

system may be improved going forward. we look forward to answering your questions. >> we've had acceptable cooperation from kbr. we've had challenges on some information we wanted, but we have work that out. i do not want you to think that we have not got an extraordinary cooperation from the other contractors that we have dealt with. there has been nothing unique about kbr working with us that we have not received from other contractors as well. with that, we will start questioning. >> kbr has been cooperative

meeting with the commission and staff. i am not ready to go into that because it has not been resolved. speak with one voice, that is your last page. how do you see organizationally -- do you have a recommendation other than the fact that you feel like you are inundated with a multitude of directions? do you have an idea of with one voice would be and what the government might do to affect that? >> as you well know, the one voice that we have to listen to is the contracting officer who is our client.

there are many government agencies where we get interaction and direction. our position is it would be very helpful for increased synchronization and coordination among those agencies interacting on any specific contract. >> i think we heard an agreement on that this morning also. i would like to go over what i pulled out of your statement. you identified things like you have been challenged to provide precise plans when the military is busy adjusting their own. you have said you need the government to translate the impact of their plan before you

can do your job. that is in terms of the plan, you need lockstep coordination. you stated that you cannot finalize the plan until there is a finite plan by the army and so on. is that the criticism of army planners? >> no, it is not a criticism. it is pointing out the reality of the complex planning required for this type of an operation. we have been working power plant in concert with the military plant in iraq for the multi- national force. it has had many revisions. our plan has had many revisions. there been changes due to the military situation and political situation. there been changes for reasons

we're not privy to. that is caused us to make changes contingency. there are several phases to this operation. we've had to build inside our plan all the logistical adjustments that have to happen within a phase. there are many camps that have things happening to them. an example would be for the camps that are to become a tenant camp, we would have to make logistical adjustments. in december, we were estimating a small number of those. as of a few weeks ago, the plan adjustments have taken at no. and multiplied it by a factor fof four. there many adjustment's going on. we understand that. we would benefit by insight into the plan.

we appreciate the realities of the war. we know that much of the information cannot be privy to us. we feel when we absolutely need to get the information, we will get it. it does impact our ability to finalize a comprehensive plan. >> there was considerable testimony by the panel before you relative to ongoing, completed, or soon to be completed plans, at economy, and staff reports. can you provide the company perspective on where you are? >> on response to the dcarr report? >> specifics were discussed this morning relative to staffing and recommendations on the $193

million situation. i am pretty familiar with what they have said. i have read your response. i would like to give you an opportunity to share that, what your reaction was to the testimony this morning. >> i heard the testimony this morning. i understand what was said. we believe our process is working and it is in concert with the military's process. any specific detailed information that he would ask for, i would be glad to provide it to you later.

>> is it correct that the plan you gave or the reference that says the current staffing targets show a 60% reduction in the last month? is it reasonably accurate? if it is accurate, why? >> it is reasonably accurate. that is because in the current military plan, that is when the majority of camps close. we have to provide services to the camps until they close. the waterfall is not a waterfall of kbr personnel leaving. it is a waterfall of one of the camps to closing. >> it is a military decision of when everybody goes home. >> it is the military decision of which camps close and in what phase. when all of that is laid out,

there are times when we are simultaneously closing 12 to 15 camps. >> i am good for now. >> you are both military officers, retired. your background required you to deal with a lot of uncertainty. you were probably trained at some level to deal with uncertainty. is that a fair statement? as a commander, you have operational experience. you have dealt with uncertainty, the fog of war. how long were you in the service? >> 29 and a half years.

>> 35 years. >> why would you then expect there to be absolute clarity when you are a contractor working for the government? you have been in a wartime environment in iraq now for eight or nine years. maybe seven or eight years i would imagine. why do you now expect the government to have all of the t's crossed and come to you within exactly right detailed plan before you can take action? >> i will answer that. i do not think we want an absolute plan from an operational level. i think mr. shays said it best

when he ended up saying why cannot the contractor be brought into the process sooner so that we can do a better job comparing the plan in conjunction with the military plan? the military plant in riraq has not kept is totally at bay. at one point, we did not understand what the real plan was. we have since found that out. they have brought it to our attention. we participated in exercises with them incoordination. we have briefed the plan that you have now to them. there is concurrence with what we have briefed. >> why is it that after working

with the government customer in theiraq, why would they not bring you closer into the loop? >> as a contractor, kbr would have an opportunity to bid on logcap. there's a concern that we could gain insider information that could subsequently cause problems in the vetting of the contract. there was a fire wall that had to be maintained at some point in time. we have discussed this with the military about how we might go around that in order to allow us to go forward. all of our liaison officers were taken out of headquartto