for the retaliation that see suffered and also backpay. finally, we interviewed bassem sub10 who was and is probably still today the highest highest-ranking american fbi agent. bassem had never done an interview and he went on camera to tell us that in his estimation, the fbi was very poorly educated about radical islam and this was someone who had worked on prior to 9/11, all the major terrorism cases and was really considered an expert. after 9/11, for a variety of reasons, he was not used in that capacity, and in the interview he said the fbi wasn't doing everything that it could do to combat terrorism, and that when it was involved and obviously they asked by fbl was involved

it was doing in a haphazard and ignorant fashion and he also talked about he had been discriminated against after 9/11. i just want to read, as part of this story, steve was allowed to pose a number of senior fbi officials. we ended up doing this story using an interview with bassem but as a kind of side benefit to doing the story, we were given access to the videotaped depositions of senior fbi officials talking about their knowledge of terrorism. steve was able to depose del watson who was the top fbi counterterrorism official both before and then after 9/11 and i have known joe for years. i always held them in high regard as a counterterrorism official, but i will just read

you this exchange because it sure surprised me. steve asked ," do you know who osama bin laden spiritual adviser was? dale watson, can't recall. steve, do you know the differences in religion between shiite and sunni muslims? not technically, no. again, this is not depending on -- the pentagon papers or even a case like rich in taking on the white house, but i thought it was important, and our access to this whistleblower gave us access to these videotapes and shed some light on what was going on with the fbi at a critical moment. ..

i've always said that for an investigative journalist, there's there is kind of like a

bug, there's something there that this terminal is once to get to the truth in the root of the story no matter what and charge. and from a whistleblower perspective, that's who you want on your case. i think for any investigative journalist, that's the character trait that makes someone into a top-notch world-renowned successful investigative journalists. but from a whistleblower, that's what you need. john has done just outstanding stories, both in cases that we've worked with him on, but also just watching the stories he's done. it's an absolute honor to have him here. in his formal biography, he's the former executive editor of the "washington times" and a -- a former current special correspondent for the "washington post." i know focusing on investigative stories.

and he's with the packard media group right now. he left the "washington times" a couple months ago. john is an award-winning investigative journalist as the former executive editor of the "washington times," he won numerous journalist awards including the robert kennedy journalism award in 2008, this idea of professional journalist 2009, national public service award. he also produced the first joint project with cbs 60 minutes about which exposed to the fbi crime lab practice faulty bullet lead analysis for decades using erroneous signs to convict hundreds of people without informing them of those problems. the series when won the 2008 robert kennedy memorial journalism award for domestic television. and the society of professional professional -- official journalist top award for

investigative tv reporting. before joining the putt -- "washington post," mr. solomon spent 20 years as a manager and reporter for "the associated press" february 1 the grinning achievement award for providing wire services worldwide, investigative coverage of the 9/11 attacks. mr. solomon was named in 2005 to oversee a seven-member investigative team dedicated to producing high and back stories that could play simultaneous on tv, and web, and radio and in print. preteens were concluded exposing the dubai ports world and at the go missteps among several liters of congress and exposing the anonymous hurricane katrina video fat on president bush before the deadly storm. before creating the team mr. solomon spent 16 years overseeing the administration

personal-finance of the washington bureau as the assistant bureau chief. in that role he oversaw apa's relationship with labor newspapers and that metropolitan area. today, mr. solomon is with the packard media group aired he also is actively engaged in doing top-notch investigative journalism. it's my honor to have mr. solomon here. [applause] >> thank you so much for having me here and it's a great pleasure to be alongside jim and rituals i've admired throughout my career for doing the this type of journalism that they've committed time and time again. and i cannot drive my career that whistleblowers have been an important part of my career, but i didn't really understand how important until about a year ago young graduate student from st. lewis university i think it was called me and said did you know you did 377 stories that involved whistleblowers and i

said no, that's not possible. she covered them up and sent me a stack in her mouth is pretty good i guess. but over the course of 25 years, i've interacted and for every story i've written just like jim said it is probably true that i pass on because i couldn't validate or verify or trust the information. so if they had and miss proposition , but the value of what whistleblowers do when they stand forward and bring wrong to the public's attention essential to our democracy and i think journalists, when with a plate of facilitating role, add to that process and bring value value to embedding what's right and what's wrong in giving the public some accountability. my very first whistleblower that i encountered i was about 19 years old. i was working on a wire duskin was thompson and a person caught up in such a there's a big professional fight in madison in and the boxer only can see out of one eye and they're hiding it. in fact he was rejected for a boxing license in las vegas is a called las vegas, god the

license and we exposed the fact that wisconsin was willing to let a boxer with one eye vision traded it in the ring when a former fed rejected him. i thought this whistleblower thing is pretty easy. some of the upcoming check it out and have a story. a few months later i turned 20 and graduated from college in another person caught, a teacher comments at all across wisconsin are teachers you been convicted of molesting children may move to another school district may start teaching again. you really got to look into it and we started a project away from 370 teachers that have molested children and just move to another district in 30 teaching again because there was no screening system. i thought wow, this is really great come of this whistleblower thing. i get into this. and then i came to washington and i said wow whistleblowing is a much more complicated and dark and tricky proposition . the first whistleblowers i met here in washington called me up. i was only hear about six months. still haven't figured out the

subway system and make it getting lost everyday on the routes. and this person caught that i've been watching what you've been reporting and any to me at at 630 in the morning tomorrow and i'll be wearing xml be leaving a newspaper behind and you should pick it up here at so i'm not through my wife thought i was not that i want 6:00 in the morning and there were several homeless folks there and in turn define the guy that was a little better dressed and there wasn't. the second i got near the bench, you want us and there is a copy of the "washington post" folded in half and inside there was a little hand scribbled note is that i just broke the law by giving this to you, but you should read it. and there is a federal document, classified federal document and it began a relationship with whistleblowers in washington would like to so much more complicated or the rest of the consequences of whistleblowing a much greater. and for the last 20 years i've really begun to appreciate the complexities of the relationship that agreeably or may have come a whistleblower has a menu in the the media house.

and i left on everyone's chair here some seven principals and i will go through each of them today, but i think to much into things and echo somethings that rich and genocide because they are spot on. first off, whistleblowing coverage in the media is the most humanizing experience, most of the most humanizing experiences you have is a reporter. the range of emotions, range of motives, the reach of pressures that are whistleblower faces over the course of a whistleblowing process can really complicate communication process. i seem whistleblowers who suffer from severe depression from paranoia, from just posthypnotic stress disorder in one case. and the ability to get an accurate story is complicated by the things that they endure every day, the unbelievable pressure, the unbelievable isolation that they sometimes endure when they step forward and their colleagues back away from them and made them in complete isolation. so, over the years i try to develop some principles that guided my reporting to make sure at the end of the database at the whistleblower in the public

with the same quality journalism. and those are on the sheet today. i'm just going to mention a couple% think they're important in understanding the context in which whistleblowing journalism occurs in the 21st century. the first one is facing in many cases and they firmly come to believe that the court of public opinion maybe just as important as the court of law for whistleblowers and that's not usually the case in most legal cases where issues are being fought out. but often times, whistleblower seek in the court of public opinion protections that they may not be able to get under the because that her government provides that whistleblowers are today. so anyone who's going to represent a whistleblower, any whistleblowers going to rowley, any journalist who is going to engage them in struts and principal you have to be ready as a whistleblower in a representative to engage the core public opinion understandable some pressures of what journalists do in the come together. the second thing is we start the relationship, it is essential as

newt gingrich's mother might now remember to set the turn of the conversation. if you remember connie cheng said between you and me and i guess mrs. gingrich thought that this wasn't going to be on camera and of course it was on camera. it's important to understand the full terms by which a contact to journalism. everett on the record, everything will be used with your name attached to them at this, or so taken aback or on background, this is an important one because the description that you as a source for whistleblower and you're not use your name, but you're providing information you just afford at the beginning with the journalist and make sure he could the identity come your description i because i describe you to accurately or to precisely communicate in trouble. if i describe you to inaccurately, going to get the public and trouble to serve the public. what a great example when scooter libby tried to be called a congressional source because it worked for 20 years before and went to the judy miller case. it's important for me to be accurate getting the description of an anonymous source and

background is essential. there's a thing called the background which is in a more vague description of u.n. off the record, this is an important one in understanding. between this and another record, i can't use it because it came to me, but don't the get of them for my reporting. i'm going to find a website about. and so understand that a journalist when you talk off the record there going to find another way to get that information and they almost certainly will. working to understand this for terms because the day died the relationship going forward about the cents each side has wants the understand the conversation. the third element is stressed. you have to build to build a relationship of trust. i've had whistleblowers what ended a series of stories that they thought they were getting divorced for me because we spent more time with each other than we did with the wife and kids. you spend an enormous amount of time getting to know the person, getting to know their pressures, their peculiarities and you have to build trust in one of the things he journalist is to build trust is to constantly verify information when something comes in from the whistleblower and

isn't quite ready to go back to kenya them yet real to begin a conversation, he doesn't seem to check out. the relationship of trust is a protect the public's interest in making sure will report ultimately is accurate and precise and fair and balanced. at the end of the day for whistleblower or lawyer representing a whistleblower, there's really only one thing journalists want more than anything else, fax, accurate facts coming effects. so when you're dealing with@@@@g

intoxication. so it's important for lawyers, the journalist in the whistleblower to understand about a danger. it's in whistleblowers get to engage in excitement at all the attention they're getting and begin to stray off course on the factual accuracy of their story. it's easy to do when people are trying to wine and dine you. i think it's an important factor in process journalists it's ver important. six, there are many different ways to get information to me to a journalist. and as someone who has faced the consequences of reporting information that was classified or that someone didn't one out, we have learned that there many different ways that a lawyer or whistleblower who maybe constrained about talking about something, there maybe a gag order, grand jury subpoena,

grand jury secrecy rules that prevent them from talking to get there away to play journalist information, those facts, those rings were looking for that don't violate any of those terms and yet guide to reporters there. hey, have you looked at the briefings in the court case recently? have you checked on the contract in the last three months? little tidbits that keep a straight, give us back and guide us to a story even while one maybe remaining true to their oaths and their secrecy obligations to and finally, because of the pressures in the range of emotions that whistleblower goes there, done repeatedly appear at the reprocessing reporter goes to a fair come in process and you go get the other side of the story, oftentimes whistleblowers give this moment of betrayal talking to the other side. why would she do that? because we need to have all sides of the story. we need to ensure the end of the data which you told us is accurate because it doesn't serve your case in the court of public opinion if i did something wrong in a fit of about about story that someone won't treat us very.

the seven principles have sort of a good my relationship with whistleblowers. and i think as the art of whistleblowing becomes more increasingly dangerous with fewer pure legal protections that whistleblowers have for stepping forward, having a sense of how to work with the media in the court of public opinion i think is becoming more and more important. >> thank you. i really want to thank you, john, for that. and he did cover all of his principles, which i'm happy because i was going to ask them to cover if he had. i was checking them off one by one. and i'm going to get the last presentation and assist from an attorney's perspective who represents whistleblowers. first i like to say that, and i hope in the questions and answers more that comes out, one of the very first cases that i'd worn, and i consequence this with my brother mike kohn, we actually won it in the press,

literally. it was a case of an atomic weapons whistleblower and savanna river site, roger wenzel, great guy and he blew the whistle on illegal drug use and some major safety issues in the construction of atomic weapons. and he was the first national whistleblower on an atomic weapon site concerning health and safety. and what we learned very quickly was that the law for atomic safety excluded weapons industry. so he had no right. but he had an extremely interesting story and a lot of credibility. so we took it to -- it was a journalist at the "washington post," cass peterson and she ran a good story about his case. it was on page three, excellent story. we were going to win anything, but the contract your overreact to it and fired his number one

but as. so the firing of the witness then became a page one story in the "washington post" and then continued coverage because that's how just outrageous the contractor reacted to the story. so then the journalist confronted the secretary of energy at a press conference about what the secretary of energy was doing, which triggered an inspector general investigation that ordered -- that eventually ordered the whistleblower salt to be reinstated with back pay. they say this is how this was one of the press because he went down to a hearing in south carolina for the whistleblowers. but the hearing with absolute sham because there were no real legal rights. so mike went into it and he said, we want to process. we will not participate in a hearing without due process. in the hearing examiner said, well this is our hearing, we are going to run the rules as they want to run it.

would you please have your whistleblower come in and tell us what happened to her. and mike said no, goodbye. he got up in my spirits of the whistleblowers never showed up at their own hearing. yeah, we won the case. that the a true story. they got reinstated because of the public rusher and i will also state on the record that even if it's not winning a case and that's the exception to the will and must say, don't think you're going to win your case that way. he can put pressure on an intelligence employer or government agency to back off because it's pretty much what jen said,, for the press to run a story based will do and should do an extensive review and investigation. they have to check the credibility come the facts, they have to put the devils advocate in the whistleblower has to

participate in that process here do know come you got to give them the good, the bad and the ugly. you have to show them all the words, all although weaknesses because if you can't essentially win your case with a journalist coming or going to win it in court anyway. you're going to have a tough time. so the journalist has to their job, but once they run the story and stand behind ultimately those allegations, either implicitly or explicitly, but they viewed it as newsworthy. i can actually think save the job of a whistleblower, especially unlike the contractors that savanna river, if they realize that the reason it's in the press is because there's probably a lot of issues here they should be dealing with instead of firing and shooting the messenger. there's a second point i want to make, which i think is often lost. in the united states, i like to say this, we know there's no

major large whistleblower law and that we often think that whistleblowers but reductions. but what i like to state is a discount information. believe it or not, congressman in session, this is true, and passed a sweeping whistleblower law covering and protecting americans to blow the whistle to the press. they did it unanimously and they had such faith in our system, they presented it to other states to back it up, too. in three quarters of it very quickly and they all signed on. and it's called the first amendment of the united states constitution, the number-one whistleblower law in the world and in our country the number-one whistleblower law. congress shall make no law of breaching freedom of speech or press. that is the law of the land.

and in 1968, the u.s. supreme court found that if you are a whistleblower working for the government and you blow the whistle to the press, you have constitutional protections and cannot be fired or retaliated against. now the gap between that constitutional principle and even those decisions and the reality is like the grand canyon. only a twisted lawyer loving the difficult arguments with a it's as beautiful as the grand canyon. but the gap is as wide as the grand canyon. the right in the implementation of that rate. you literally have to hike down and i thought the way back up and hope you have enough water in your well supplied because there is a right, but if you think that right is just going to come to you because the founding fathers wrote it in an important document, you are not

living in the united dates of america today. the retaliation is the norm. government officials who swear allegiance to the constitution for god about the first amendment. not. that's the reality. because those rights exist, you will be surprised how far you can go here for example, in 1995, we surprised a significant effect your of the national news media and most lawyers in washington when we had an active duty fbi agent with top-secret clearances they were told top-secret peek at not only with the clearances were. who was responsible for managing the kind seen in the first terrorist attack on the world trade and are, who had detailed

information about the oklahoma city bombing case and do as a supervisory agent within the fbi, working manner on those cases and reasserted his first amendment rights and eventually got permission for an to speak on television, criticizing the f. e. i am those terrorist cases and keep his job. why? because when push comes to shove, the first amendment actually does exist. and i may take you have to go to court, you may have to get an injunction, but there is such a thing as the first amendment and it does apply. how many government officials have the audacity to assert those rights publicly? very few. you can probably count them on your hands. and that's a shame because the public right to know is timed. in the private sector, most

court will be blowing the whistle to the news media as they protected the dvd and try to -- and to get protection under statute. unfortunately, just recently come in february of two 2010 the court in an unpublished decision went the other way. was the first decision and a federal court i thought going another way. you think it's now finer, i think it should be repealed and reversed. usage of the district court will obviously there's now differences of opinion in the court system, but the good thought in the majority of court and agencies that have looked at it i found going to the news media to be protected under the normal whistleblower statutes. all of that being said, going to the press as a whistleblower is always, in my view, a radical step because he's gone -- you have a chain of command and did

you exhaust it? there or government agencies often designed to get the information. e.g. use them? to go into the press will open you up to heightened scrutiny and it will open you up to the types of leaks, to the types of counterpunch that you heard from our speakers, that a whistleblower can expect. go into the news media is often the very end of the line, not the beginning of the line. that doesn't mean in the law there's a difference, but in reality there is. there's an important decision from the united is department of labor that is still good law within the labor department and it vandalize whether going to the press should be dead in the air as we say under the first amendment, it should be protected for government workers, but should it be protect in the private sector? and the analysis was those: a

whistleblower who goes to the government with an allegation of wrongdoing is protect it. what about a whistleblower who goes to the press? should they be protect the? and the statute is silent. the statue says going go into the government is protected. and what the analysis was, how do you get the government to take an allegation seriously? had you actually make change in the united states? how do you force a bureaucracy to be responsive? and the analysis was by going to the press. a politician or bureaucrat may ignore allegations of a whistleblower for years, but when they the issues rapesed at savannah river had been raised for