will take a short break. when we come back, a discussion with mark potok of the southern part of -- of the southern poverty law center. that is after this break. you are watching "washington journal." caller: let's meet another winner in the studentcam video documentary winner. we asked students about one of our country's greatest strengths or a challenge the country is facing. today, we are talking with the third-prize winner, a senior in austin texas. welcome to c-span. it is latin for the sake of work. >> why did you choose the arts? >> i cut it to be an interesting

topic to share. a lot of people have opinions on the arts. the current economic recession -- some people would think it be bad for the arts, but my documentary disproves that in some ways. >> why do you think may injure the arts thrive is important? >> i think they are very important to sustain a really healthy, creative community, especially when we get in the trenches with the state of the economy. you have to plow through. creativity helps you with that. >> how are the parts all live in austin, texas? >> well, we have concerts' every night on six streets. we also have a classical music community as well. there are concerts every weekend. we have a lot of art studios and

a lot of art then use and a few dance studios here and there. there is a lot of art going on here, in austin, texas. >> what did you learn from the people that you interviewed? >> i learned that everybody has their own opinions about art and what place it has in society. one person said it is more of the retreat, or another said it is needed because we have a visual vocabulary of recognition and what colors make people happy and sad and make people feel certain things. i was also told something very intriguing. everyone should take an acting class. if everyone took an acting class, there would be world peace. acting is all about putting yourself in the shoes of another person. she was going on and on about

the importance of the art of acting. it was very fascinating to learn all of these things. >> in terms of the recession, how has the recession hurt the arts? >> corporate sponsors are less willing to contribute to the arts because of that lack of funds, but -- that is the major reason. people are not as willing to go to concerts' if they are hurting in their wallets and not as eager to buy other pieces of local art where they do not have enough money to pay for them. >> half as the recession helped the arts? >> people use the arts as a retreat from the daily living, the hustle and bustle of the modern world. it is a modern the escape. it is also a means of

expression. it is important to express yourself. the parts are about what. >> for you, what would life be without the arts? >> life would be so boring. it would be very said and time of on filling without the darts, i think. >> john, we appreciate your time. congratulations on your when paired >> thank you, so much here is a portion of the documentary. >> american citizens use the parts as a retreat. the economic struggle is both a good and bad thing -- it may provide inspiration, but it does not provide an incentive to corporate sponsors as opposed to a time of economic prosperity >> -- prosthetic. >> you can watch all the videos at studentcam.org.

host: joins us now is mark potok. welcome to the program. guest: thank you for having me. host: give us some background and your organization. guest: it was formed in alabama. for several years we did classic civil rights work. in the early 1980's, we got into with the work that made the place well known, suing a white supremacist groups. basically, the suits were built around the idea of holding the leader and the group itself solely responsible for the actions of followers.

the suits were successful. our offices were burned to the ground. actually helped make the place quite famous. since then, we have expanded. our lawyers do a lot of immigration work, juvenile justice work. my department covers the radical right. we have a teaching tolerance policy which produces material. host: most recently in the headlines has been demolished a group of detroit, michigan. with this headline, -- host: tell us what you know about this group and why is it that other mother should groups are trying to put some distance between themselves and these

guys? guest: this was an odd group. they basically believed like most of the patriot-groups or militia-type groups, but the world was headed for held-in-a- hand basket. ultimately, the pushing of the united states or the subsuming of the united states into a new world order, a so-called, socialistic one-world government. it is not very defined. this group was interesting in that it put a christian millennial spend on the new world order idea. in -- instead of talking specifically about the new world order, they speak of the antichrist. they think that the antichrist might be the former secretary

general of the european union. this fits very much in the ideas of other militia groups. these are all pre figurations of the terrible -- of the terrible socialists tell that we are headed for. this group is accused of quite a remarkable plot. supposedly, they were going to murder a local police officer. that would draw hundreds of law enforcement officials to a big funeral and their idea was that they would attack this funeral with improvised explosive devices and missiles. it was quite remarkable. given all that, it is no surprise to me that all of the other militia and patrick groups and related organizations are essentially running away from them. they want nothing to do with this plot to murder a a whole lot of police officers.

host: we're talking about militias and extremist groups with mark potok. if you want to get involved, give us a call. host: we want to show you of the to bit of what senator joseph lieberman of connecticut had to set on the subject. then, we'll get your calls. >> the threat has definitely escalated. all the conditions that you mentioned are there to encourage people. i would have a word of caution to my colleagues in the political parties and the media, the level of discourse about our politics are so extreme and incendiary, but if you are dealing with people that may not be clicking on all cylinders and may have all rebels -- and may

have of all abilities, there is a danger. i would not overstate this threat. it is not as confident as the global threat of islamic extremism, but it is real. i want to ensure the american people that your government is taking this militia threat very seriously. the fbi is on top of this. that is why they stopped in this group before they had a chance to do what they wanted to do, which was to attack law enforcement officers. host: mark potok, is the political extremes that we are seeing in the united states, is that driving up an escalation of militia groups in the united states on both sides, left and right? guest: i am not sure what you mean by left and right.

the short answer is yes. i think that the polarized, incredibly incendiary and often a very defamatory discourse that we have sunk to in the public square and is very much the reflection of anger out there and helping to drive forward the radicalization of a lot of individuals and groups. we put out a study which found an absolutely explosive growth in the number of not only militias and anti-government groups, but also a very hard- line anti-immigration group and what we classify as hate groups. this is in addition to the broader political scene. we are not talking about, for instance the tea party. that is another formation that contains a lot of people that are very angry, frustrated, and

in many cases, afraid. host: of first call comes from lynchburg, virginia. caller: good morning. i would like to make a statement. i am noticing that mark potok and a lot of these lower-level interest groups would prefer to identify the kirch -- the christians and the extremists on the right side, but i hope that your organization works as well try to stop groups like greenpeace and extreme islamic organizations. people that are anti-emigrants, you are for -- you are against people that come into this country illegally. host: mark potok, co-head -- go

ahead. guest: first of all, i would say there is not a lot of an extreme left. that said, we do cover and have covered a bit of the extreme left that really does exist, that is the so-called ego- terrorists. these may not be the best descriptions, but i'm talking about the animal liberation front. we ever been a lot about those groups. those groups increasingly engaged in a violent actions and they will without a doubt kill somebody one of these days. members of those groups or followers of that ideology have done things like firebomb houses in which supposedly lived so- called animal oppressors and so on. all of that said, the says a small part of the extremist

groups in the united states. there are also anarchist groups. with regard to the anti- immigrant groups, what we really focus on are not groups that are simply opposed to high levels of immigration or advocating for lower levels or enforcement of border law, what we focus our energy on is those groups that personally confront and harass individuals that they suspect are on-documented immigrants. these are groups like the san diego and minute men. they have been known to do things like pretended to be cops in order to scare would-be employers. host: let's take this call from charles on our line for democrats.

caller: hello, sir. i am a former member of your organization. host: charles? all right. let's move on to christine in west virginia on our line for independence pts. caller: you mentioned that he party and those set have not stepped over the edge, the effect that the people that are at risk -- de think these people are at risk of becoming members of the extreme right? >> i think we're seeing a great deal of mixing. i think it went -- i think when you look a that a party phenomenon, you cannot say that this is uniform like a radical right group. i think that is false. that said, if you look at them,

and there are many streaks of conspiracy theories, racial feelings, sometimes real racist feelings, and other kinds of demonizing propaganda that have been absorbed from other groups. what i am saying is that, for instance, many people in the tea party movement have to absorb the conspiracy theory that really originated in radical anti-immigration groups that mexico was planning to invade and conquer the american southwest. another theory is that the united states is secretly building a set of concentration camps into which it plans to put in all freedom-loving americans. that idea has made its way into certain parts of the tea party movement. i am suggesting that some of these ideas are present, not

uniformly present. i would not describe them as uniform lead racist or anything like that, but there are these elements. a big hall, or possibly a majority, are people that have been terrified of the people that have been frightened, usually, by the absolutely false statements of politicians and media commentators. i am suggesting that when sarah palin suggests that the president is setting up death panels to decide whether our grandparents will live or die, the effect of that propaganda, which is entirely false, is to terrify people. there are many people in the tea party world that feel armageddon as around the corner. they have really been frightened by a number of people out there in better positions -- in

positions where they ought to know better. host: brian, on our line for republicans. caller: i will not stick up for the violence. i doubt that most people in the keep party are frightened. they're trying to be heard. if you look recently, the eminent domain, they pay attention to those things. it is easier to take people's writes. the use of the national guard, and not securing the border, but turned them into a fighting machine and sending them over the with our troops overseas, that goes against the grain of everything. if you are going to use and then ask the -- the nafta model for future treaties, and you see the middle class jobs are gone, and

chevrolet is making 60% of their cars overseas, i can see why people have had enough and can go too far. you call it extremist. i do agree with you. you have to understand the frustration when people try to get a hold of senators and congressmen. i will close on this. most americans, if they have spent time in europe, feel that the european model is a complacent model. in other words, they do not get with it like true americans do to want to solve problems and reach out for the greater good. we do not want to become like europe. i hate the word "socialism." would not want a complete and society. we want a society that lives hard and plays hard.

gee, i do not really disagree with us think the caller said. i think that all of those things are real. there are real complaints about them. the one thing that was not explained is why now? all those things were true in the bush administration and earlier in the clinton administration. we have seen as the enormous explosion in what looks a very serious anchor and it seems very broad. -- and it seems like very broad anchor. -- anchor. the usa today ran a poll but said the 39% of americans agreed with the idea that the federal government was no imminent threat to their civil liberties. that whole was three-run. the number had risen to 51%.

there is enormous anger. i am suggesting that a great deal of it is real. it is related to real things. demographic change, globalization, the loss of jobs, of anger, certainly over things like a multi-billion dollar bonuses to bankers that ultimately exploited the economy -- all of that israel, but it is being pumped up -- is real, but it is being pumped up. there are ideas that a minute on up radical right. it is not merely the government is too big, or the patriot act is too intrusive, it is that the government is building concentration camps. it is the idea that the

president does want to have our grandparents murdered. it is not merely a disagreement with a general policy, but the president is secretly setting up political re-education camps. host: the report was released last month. "raged on up right." the documented groups that included armed militias. host: this comes from the southern poverty law center. you can find it on their website. back to the funds. atlanta, georgia.

welcome. caller: what i would like to say is that it is based on race. they are bringing up these other issues. everything is basically designed on race. things have been different around here. the two coquelin and all these different types of groups, up one people get to a certain age, people around 53 years old, they went to segregated schools. we have been living in the situation ever since we have been over here as an under- class. even that immigrants that are coming over now, there are above the blacks in america. what you have with obama is all of these issues. most of these people are on

medicaid, social security, they get all kinds of aid from the government. as those people if they want their so security and medicaid cut out it took a lot for the call. mark potok, go ahead. guest: he is basically saying what former president jimmy carter said. all this stems from race. while i did not think that is completely true, there is some truth in it. a great number of people are uncomfortable that we are changing, and changing today valet radical way demographically. in the year 2015, white americans will lose their majority. -- 2050, what americans will lose their majority. that is the kind of real change

that is a very-much represented in the election of president obama, a black man living in the white house. a lot of it is not perhaps open the white-supremacist feeling, but worries and fears among many people who feel that this is not the country are christian, white forefathers built. the reality is that we are, for the first time in our history, becoming a genuine need multi- racial democracy in which no one group dominates, not whites, not protestants and so on. it is a bit of a brave new world. these changes will be reflected in some ways in the policies of our states and our country. host: let's take this call from tim in the west virginia.

caller: i would like to find out why you are going up against kevin mcdonald because he has written articles about how these -- it seems like you are a zionist front. have you read that article? she called i have read all of missed -- guest: i have read all of mr. macdonald's work. it is not discouragement of the jewish neo-cons. the the reality is what he theorizes, in his infamous trilogy is that he theorizes that jews have a collective, evolutionary strategy that because jews generally live in

societies in which they are outnumbered, that what they do collectively, through some sort of -- i guess they get this from the clouds -- they work collectively and secretly to undermine the white, christian societies that are hosts for them. the idea is that jews urged other people to enter-mary, they try to weaken christianity. the whole reason for this is that so white society will be weakened in order that the jews will not be attacked. your friend kevin mcdonald has suggested such things as placing special taxes on jews in order to bring them down to the level of the rest of us. that is part of the reason that we have been critical of kevin mcdonald.

it's called let's move on to a chesterfield, mich. on our line for republicans. barbara, you are on. caller: good morning. i get nervous. give me a moment to get my comments about paid -- to get my comments out. when the report came out, it painted everyone that was a christian, who is ex-military, so you have comments from people like dick morris who said that of the conspiracy theories have been right. you have all of these things going on that have the american people frightened. we're not extremist groups. we are not racist. you are tried to paint a salt. they will bring up timothy mcveigh and put that he party in a category like him.

what you are doing is spreading it. you are making it worse for everyone. that is what you are doing? host: where are the 400 troops from the united nations? where are the station in the united states? caller: there are all across the country in different areas. you have the training. you have them working with the federal government. all this stuff is happening. host: mark potok, anything to what barbara had to say? guest: the whole idea of foreign troops being prepared, this is very much part of the idea they will help impose martial law and so on. the report that was referred to was up and that came out of the