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every c-span program since 1987. the video library, cable's latest gift to america. >> david represents the auto companies, he is the president and ceo of the auto alliance in washington d.c.. you are in d.c., yes? i wanted to get your reaction to the news, a $16.40 billion fine? >> the system works. the agency determined that there was a violation, and they took action against the company. it is not an issue of the level of the fine, but the reputation. >> what will be the impact on toyota's image?

>> they have real bland loyalty with consumers -- real brand loyalty with consumers. i think they survived, they addressed the problems. recalls are part of a regulatory model that works, because even though there has been an increase in the number of recalls. it is a way to remedy potential defects much sooner than otherwise would be the case. >> how do you think the other car companies are going to react? >> it is a process. there really develop a cooperative, working relationship. the underlying case, like what

both a doctor runge and dr. martinez were talking about, they talked about saving lives. it is lower than it was in 1954. they really are making vehicles safer. that is a time when the number of drivers have actually doubled, so there is n nhtsa as a success story -- has a success story here. >> there's an expectation that this is an electronic issue, not necessarily a pedal defect as toyota has said. if it is an electronic issue, to

electronic companies need to come forward with their software codes and tell the public the safety administration how the cars work? >> i was in the presence of the -- i was on the technology committee that oversaw an asset and the department of defense, so i would tell you the solid state technology is far more reliable than the mechanical systems with that in the past. if you look at the innovations that are occurring today, specially those the consumers have been, but also the regulators. we worked with the administration to -- you need

electronics in order to accomplish that. the reliability requirements is 99.99 is not been met in the federal government or other industries. there is a redundancy there that is unmatched, are they able, with limited resources to really investigate these issues, and it is a challenge. the ticket from a laboratory, but they put it in vehicles if there is a potential defect, that is where the recall works.

i and the reliability is there more than ever before. that is what is increasing safety and lifesaving technologies that are deployed today that we have to be careful that we don't develop our regulatory system that actually stifles that innovation and the deployment of that technology. >> david is here to give us the perspective of car companies. >> a good evening. i have a bit of a background in software engineering. i hear that they were hiring 66 people, it doesn't make me feel very comfortable. >> why is that? >> software is offshore. a lot of it is proprietary. we have millions of lines of

code in a car right now, having 100 million lines of code is probably our reality. software engineers are able to assess the quality and architecture of the code, and most of that will be written in a foreign language. it is not going to be in english, and that is a false start. being sought for engineers is not the answer is the role is to try and assess the quality of the software that is being delivered the the car. it is probably the industry's role and responsibility to pull that out. they certainly won't have the tools or the expertise or the time to analyze code, 100 million lines of code, let's say. >> what is a solution in your mind? what should happen?

>> the producers of the software de it korea, japan, china, must documents that in provide the open source code -- not the open source, but he saw for documentation in a language we can understand, and the test results. >> i was on the board of this offer institute, and i am not a software engineer, but i have a bit of respect for them. having just a few software engineers is not going to be able to understand the types of assistance and complexity of the auto itself, plus the range of auto manufacturers. their architecture designs that meet incredibly rigorous standards that ought companies use and actually lead in and they have worked with institutions to actually build the standards and requirements.

there are literally thousands of engineers in the society of automotive engineers that are looking to develop standards for software and computers, and the system itself. an automobile has about 3000 different parts, and they all have to work together as a system. that is why it is very important that the automaker is not only do the design into the development, but they work with their suppliers to make sure that they're working effectively together. that is where this high standard of not only reliability -- actually more than any other industry. >> chris in boston, go ahead. >> i am an electrical engineer, and i really don't think you people really understand what is really going on. you are really being

manipulated, you are being used. what they're trying to establish here is taking simple minded people like yourself in using new to establish a global governing system about auto industry standards. they're creating global government programs through agencies like this agency to oversee world government. by creating small departments that oversee these different issues and stuff like that about our safety on a global level, what they're doing is establishing a global governing system. what they're also doing is protecting the interest of the brand, and one of the callers was absolutely correct that there is an agenda behind a global government. >> well, it is a global industry. our industry manufactures and

designs systems here in the united states as well as around the globe. it is one of the most competitive industries in the world. i don't think people understand how hyper competitive it is. there is a marketplace at work, and it is the most efficient of any other industry i am aware of. as far as standards globally, there are a lot of competgreachn has established some sort of department that is working on this as part of the un, but they are really looking at standards that there is consensus on. they're following a the manufacturers. the doctor mentioned electronics instability control. it is really the reason that we save thousands of lives every year. that was voluntarily developed by the manufacturers, and government took it to get

converted it to standard after the fact. that is okay. it is actually good. i don't agree with the caller that there is a global conspiracy here to try to dominate. regulators may get a heavy hand, but i don't know that part. >> is the odd alliance working with companies to come forward and get ahead of this situation that we have seen with toyota by volunteering to take safety precautions? are you working on something to with all the auto companies? >> we are represented the odd alliance and the trade association. it is about 70% of manufacturers. we continue to be incredibly proactive on a lot of the safety measures whether it is the current situation with sudden

unintended acceleration. back in 2000, we had the tragic incident, the firestone case. there is a number of requirements of reporting, etc.. the industry complies with that, but we think there are ways to build on it. a lot of the questions are about the kinds of solutions that may be needed. the industry is releasing that or adopting a dozen coming forward. two of our manufacturers have announced break override technology that they are voluntarily deploying in their vehicles, trying to make sure that there is redundancy in safety, that there are fail-safe method so we can avoid those incidents that may have occurred in the past. >> of viewers may remember the headlines during the last couple of months, one that came out of the situation with toyota that

some employees have been hired by the car companies. is that appropriate? >> absolutely. the experience on both sides of the aisle. he doesn't understand the technology industry, and those in the agency's need to understand the technology and vice versa. the need to understand the system and in regulation. most are in cooperation with the manufacturers and it is not adversarial. it is not the kind of relationship. it may have been in the past, " someone may be wanted to be the corporate cop. what we see today is a much more constructive engagement, trying to anticipate those challenges and building a consensus. we're working on a program, looking a research in regard to impaired driving, drunk driving, which is the single largest

cause of fatalities in this country. 1% of all drivers are the ones responsible forhose dea and research from across the globe in other areas of science to see if it would apply to technologies to prevent a drunk driver from engaging a vehicle and going out and doing harm. >> the next phone call comes from sheppard, florida. >> i wasn't on a mechanic student in the '70s, became a -- became a mechanic in the 80's. i now build fire trucks. one of the problems i have seen with the manufacturer is the fact that a lot of this new technology fails to get the proper testing that needs. some examples are 1975, going to widespread electronic ignition. there is nothing with problems

-- and nothing but problems with them until 78 or 79. then they went to widespread use of computer control. i can't tell you how many times card would -- cars would come back with the infamous check engine light. in this is you solve one problem, another one would pop up. it was not likely solved until the early 90s when they came out with the systems on board diagnostic. then they came out with the anti-lock brake systems, and there were a few problems when those started. they need more real-world testing on any of these systems before their release them to the public. >> testing? >> this test -- this industry does more testing in a crash test, reliability, extreme temperature, it is the most

stringent of any industry today, even within the federal government. there is considerable testing. there are 240 million vehicles on the road. there are hopefully roughly 12 million that are sold in this coming year, and that technology means to be deployed as quickly as possible. even if it is 99% reliable, there is that small percentage of risk there. the want to have a perfect before you get it deployed? a perfect example, the institute has the fiftieth anniversary of crash tests. in 1959 chevy, there was a lot of metal, big engines, people thought they were safe. they crafted against a smaller chevy, a 2009 model, and i think

we have a chart that shows those, when you look at the comparison, the 1959 model, you can see that the passenger compartment is actually crumbled. there is no air bag there that would protect the chest and upper torso. >> de 1995 yet -- the 1950 vehicle was on top, and below that is the 2009 vehicle. >> that passenger compartment is safe, a 49 mile an hour head-on crash. the technology has changed dramatically, and each year, it improves. we have to make sure we don't stifle innovation in search of a risk free society or risk free industry because of potential litigation or a small percentage of problems. i think that is the virtuous

cycle that the regulators in the industry are trying to engage. >> bought from ohio as our next caller, go ahead. >> respectfully disagree. you are saying that electronics are superior that mechanical parts, that they are better. moving parts where, it doesn't matter if it is a mechanical or if it is electrical. you have made it more expensive. at as someone who has worked on cars, the average joe can't fix a new car now. the picture you just showed had nothing to do with electronics. that is crumple technology, crumple zones. >> hold on, bob. i will let you continue. >> there is a lot of technology,

electronics prior to impact that now affect air bags, positions, they apply brakes, and that as electronics. the electronics have provided stability so that we don't lose cars in spins, and so i respectfully disagree. and from this world of regulation, we mentioned fuel economy and greenhouse gas reductions. there is no way that mechanical systems and the old carburetors in the area that i grew up in could meet those kinds of requirements. >> with the smog stuff, they're not doing that much with electronics. yet driven the price of electronic parts -- first of

all, you can't fix the car as an average joe anymore. the mechanical parts are much cheaper than the electronic parts. it is to fold against the average joe that is trying to fix his car because it costs more, and he really can't do stuff that you used to be able to do. >> when you were trying to repair those in the 70's or 80's, he did not have engines that lasted as long as they do today, the power trains, the brake systems. there are costs, but if you look at inflation over the years, it is not out of proportion to where incomes are today. the beauty of automobiles is that you can go from low-end to as luxurious as you want. but even the lower end vehicles as far as pricing are now getting the benefit of the investments made in electric

safety, total quality of the vehicle. there is no fair comparison of quality of vehicles from the '70s or '80s that seemed to be simple at the time to what they are today. >> thank you for being here and talking to our viewers. we are going to take a short break. when we come back, we will continue the conversation about [unintelligible] we will be right back. >> the financial crisis continues his look in the subprime lending. the panel hopes to publish its support on the financial crisis by the end of the year. tomorrow morning, the commission hears from federal reserve chairman alan greenspan. other witnesses include city group managers that are expected

to testify about their warnings to cut -- citigroup managers that are expected to testify about their warnings. first lady michelle obama is focusing on childhood obesity and sits down with our studentcam winner. his prize-winning documentary was on childhood obesity. others will join the conversation, live on c-span, tomorrow morning, 11:00 eastern. >> all this month, see the winners of c-span's studentcam documentary competition. high-school students from 45 states sent in videos on one of our country's greatest strengths or challenge the country is facing. it is just before "washington journal." me to the students who made

them, and preview of the winners at the studentcam.org. >> i know what the challenge is, and we are in a unique position to go to war. we need to develop our roadmap so we can get it done. >> something about energy policy they you would like to talk about on your blog? circuit, watch it, clip it, and share it. every c-span program since 1987. the c-span video library, cable's greatest gift to -- latest gift to america. >> joining us now is the executive director of the center for auto safety. let me begin with the toyota possibility of getting a fine of $64 million from nhtsa. >> it is a well-deserved fine.

first of all, toyota brag about saving $100 million in the format -- in the floormat recall. the imposition financially is peanuts. but it is a symbolic message more than a dollar a message. >> if it is peanuts, does congress me to increase the amount that nhtsa is allowed to find? >> absolutely. one judge imposed a $2.40 billion fine last year. the epa has an unlimited cap. if we matched the epa, it would be $25,000 a vehicle, and no cap whatsoever. >> and that is why

nhtsa came forth with an unprecedented amount. >> toyota knew the system. they withheld information from the agency. it made the agency look like a regulator that was not very effective. that is really because it does not have the resources and it does not have the legal tools that it needs. when toyota took advantage of that, the agency had no choice but to levy the maximum fine. >> what should congress do to give it what it needs? >> what congress needs to do is to increase the budget by at least $125 million. they'll have a couple of pennies per vehicle on the road, and they should increase the employees at least threefold. right now, in the enforcement

area, they have about a hundred 19 employees. -- 119 employees. you have hundreds of equipment manufacturers that they have to regulate. >> the budget is $867 million, how much of that is for auto safety? >> about 2/3 of the budget goes toward drunk driving laws, seat belt use. in terms of the vehicle, because it is so complex, it has about $200 million. >> nasa has been called in to help nhtsa. does n -- is nhtsa capable of doing this on their own or do they have to go to another agency? >> they have the good weather

agency because they don't have the manpower or the electronics engineers. if something causes the vehicle to suddenly accelerate, they know it wasn't the computer because they switched it. they could never determine what was wrong with that computer. >> wrapping up the federal oversight -- in the from rochester, minn., you are on the air. >> i don't know about what the gentleman just said, he was a mechanic. if a fix one thing, another thing goes wrong. i was wondering, will they have to call back to get it from their country, and how much more

data is being held back from going out on the field? >> i want to make sure that we understand your question. >> toyota is a leader of electronics, the things like the vintage data recorder, -- teh event -- the event data recorder. you have to send out to other manufacturers to allow the device to read out what happened in the crash. toyota's have more complex electronics. >> should new consumers by toyota cars? >> that is a really hard question. we publish a book every year, the best bets.