members of those groups have done things like firebomb houses and would supposedly live so-called animal oppressors -- in which supposedly live so- called animal oppressors. this is very extreme. by and large, it is small compared to the radical right now. if you take anti-immigrant groups, what we focus on are not groups that are simply opposed to high levels of immigration or advocate order, law, and so on. we focus our energies of those groups that go out and personally confront and harass individuals they suspect are undocumented immigrants or people trying to hire undocumented immigrants. these are groups like the san diego minutemen, who have been known to do things like " blue

lights on the top of their cars and cheese people -- chase people down the road to scare them. >> let's take this call from charles. caller: hello, sir. i am a former member of the organization. host: charles? let's move onto pristine on our line for independencts. pts. caller: you mentioned that he party and those set have not stepped over the edge, the effect that the people that are at risk -- de think these people are at risk of becoming members

of the extreme right? >> i think we're seeing a great deal of mixing. i think it went -- i think when you look a that a party phenomenon, you cannot say that this is uniform like a radical right group. i think that is false. that said, if you look at them, and there are many streaks of conspiracy theories, racial feelings, sometimes real racist feelings, and other kinds of demonizing propaganda that have been absorbed from other groups. what i am saying is that, for instance, many people in the tea party movement have to absorb the conspiracy theory that really originated in radical anti-immigration groups that mexico was planning to invade and conquer the american southwest. another theory is that the united states is secretly building a set of concentration

camps into which it plans to put in all freedom-loving americans. that idea has made its way into certain parts of the tea party movement. i am suggesting that some of these ideas are present, not uniformly present. i would not describe them as uniform lead racist or anything like that, but there are these elements. a big hall, or possibly a majority, are people that have been terrified of the people that have been frightened, usually, by the absolutely false statements of politicians and media commentators. i am suggesting that when sarah palin suggests that the president is setting up death panels to decide whether our grandparents will live or die, the effect of that propaganda, which is entirely false, is to

terrify people. there are many people in the tea party world that feel armageddon as around the corner. they have really been frightened by a number of people out there in better positions -- in positions where they ought to know better. host: brian, on our line for republicans. caller: i will not stick up for the violence. i doubt that most people in the keep party are frightened. they're trying to be heard. if you look recently, the eminent domain, they pay attention to those things. it is easier to take people's writes. the use of the national guard, and not securing the border, but turned them into a fighting machine and sending them over the with our troops overseas, that goes against the grain of everything.

if you are going to use and then ask the -- the nafta model for future treaties, and you see the middle class jobs are gone, and chevrolet is making 60% of their cars overseas, i can see why people have had enough and can go too far. you call it extremist. i do agree with you. you have to understand the frustration when people try to get a hold of senators and congressmen. i will close on this. most americans, if they have spent time in europe, feel that the european model is a complacent model. in other words, they do not get with it like true americans do to want to solve problems and reach out for the greater good. we do not want to become like

europe. i hate the word "socialism." would not want a complete and society. we want a society that lives hard and plays hard. gee, i do not really disagree with us think the caller said. i think that all of those things are real. there are real complaints about them. the one thing that was not explained is why now? all those things were true in the bush administration and earlier in the clinton administration. we have seen as the enormous explosion in what looks a very serious anchor and it seems very broad. -- and it seems like very broad anchor. -- anchor.

the usa today ran a poll but said the 39% of americans agreed with the idea that the federal government was no imminent threat to their civil liberties. that whole was three-run. the number had risen to 51%. there is enormous anger. i am suggesting that a great deal of it is real. it is related to real things. demographic change, globalization, the loss of jobs, of anger, certainly over things like a multi-billion dollar bonuses to bankers that ultimately exploited the economy -- all of that israel, but it is being pumped up -- is real, but it is being pumped up. there are ideas that a minute on up radical right.

it is not merely the government is too big, or the patriot act is too intrusive, it is that the government is building concentration camps. it is the idea that the president does want to have our grandparents murdered. it is not merely a disagreement with a general policy, but the president is secretly setting up political re-education camps. host: the report was released last month. "raged on up right." the documented groups that included armed militias.

host: this comes from the southern poverty law center. you can find it on their website. back to the funds. atlanta, georgia. welcome. caller: what i would like to say is that it is based on race. they are bringing up these other issues. everything is basically designed on race. things have been different around here. the two coquelin and all these different types of groups, up one people get to a certain age, people around 53 years old, they went to segregated schools. we have been living in the situation ever since we have been over here as an under-

class. even that immigrants that are coming over now, there are above the blacks in america. what you have with obama is all of these issues. most of these people are on medicaid, social security, they get all kinds of aid from the government. as those people if they want their so security and medicaid cut out it took a lot for the call. mark potok, go ahead. guest: he is basically saying what former president jimmy carter said. all this stems from race. while i did not think that is completely true, there is some truth in it. a great number of people are uncomfortable that we are changing, and changing today valet radical way

demographically. in the year 2015, white americans will lose their majority. -- 2050, what americans will lose their majority. that is the kind of real change that is a very-much represented in the election of president obama, a black man living in the white house. a lot of it is not perhaps open the white-supremacist feeling, but worries and fears among many people who feel that this is not the country are christian, white forefathers built. the reality is that we are, for the first time in our history, becoming a genuine need multi- racial democracy in which no one group dominates, not whites, not protestants and so on.

it is a bit of a brave new world. these changes will be reflected in some ways in the policies of our states and our country. host: let's take this call from tim in the west virginia. caller: i would like to find out why you are going up against kevin mcdonald because he has written articles about how these -- it seems like you are a zionist front. have you read that article? she called i have read all of missed -- guest: i have read all of mr. macdonald's work. it is not discouragement of the jewish neo-cons.

the the reality is what he theorizes, in his infamous trilogy is that he theorizes that jews have a collective, evolutionary strategy that because jews generally live in societies in which they are outnumbered, that what they do collectively, through some sort of -- i guess they get this from the clouds -- they work collectively and secretly to undermine the white, christian societies that are hosts for them. the idea is that jews urged other people to enter-mary, they try to weaken christianity. the whole reason for this is that so white society will be weakened in order that the jews will not be attacked. your friend kevin mcdonald has

suggested such things as placing special taxes on jews in order to bring them down to the level of the rest of us. that is part of the reason that we have been critical of kevin mcdonald. it's called let's move on to a chesterfield, mich. on our line for republicans. barbara, you are on. caller: good morning. i get nervous. give me a moment to get my comments about paid -- to get my comments out. when the report came out, it painted everyone that was a christian, who is ex-military, so you have comments from people like dick morris who said that of the conspiracy theories have been right. you have all of these things

going on that have the american people frightened. we're not extremist groups. we are not racist. you are tried to paint a salt. they will bring up timothy mcveigh and put that he party in @@@@@@a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what barbara had to say?

guest: the whole idea of foreign troops being prepared, this is very much part of the idea they will help impose martial law and so on. the report that was referred to was up and that came out of the missouri fusion center. it is a group of officials that worry about domestic terrorism and so on. most people like the caller, have never actually read these reports. the report was very similar to the department of common security report that was leaked last spring. it had a couple of statements in at that were unfortunately written. they said things like "you might want to watch out for people with certain kinds of bumper stickers." ron paul was mentioned. similar uproar, a much bigger

one of was generated by the release of the report or the leak of the dhs report. that was a tempest in a teacup. it did not do anything it was accused of. it was attacked as supposedly characterized him all returning the vets as potential timothy mcveigh's. it was withdrawn ultimately by janet napolitano. . .

host: and they were arrested as they were about to invade for good in central texas to kill as many people as they could because they believed that foreign troops were being trained their to assist in martial law on the united states and so on. these are ultimately where these kinds of conspiracy theories lead. of course, there are pilots, eu pilots and other military officials that are trained over here as various cooperation programs. that is not a secret. that does not mean that fema is running concentration camps or anything else like that. host: a stake a call from don in michigan -- let's take a call from john in michigan. caller: may i call you market? guest: -- may i call you mark?

guest: absolutely. caller: thank you. obama set out on just it was when he was running for president and when he becomes president he keeps the dollar in tax, the policy. -- keeps it all intact, the policy. when they passed it, bush and cheney, they had a terrorist alert. that's what bothers me the most about this. we've got to be honest with the patriot act. they're going to be using it

against us. host: any truth to what he had to say, that there has been an increase in extremist activity as a result of the creation of the patriot act? guest: i do not know that it has led to an increase in extremist activity, but there is some truth to the idea that police in this country over the past 20 years have been increasingly militarized. there are more and more swat since, more heavy equipment. to speak in defense of law enforcement to some extent, the threat they are facing is more and more well-armed. and on talking about domestically. some of the group's that have run into various criminal matters and so on have been unbelievably well on. it is not that uncommon for the atf to turn up catches that include large amounts of explosive materials along with 50 caliber machine guns and that kind of thing.

i'm no fan of the patriot act. i do not mean to suggest that i am and it has been disappointed that a bit of it has not been rolled back a bit more quickly, but there is something to be said about the increased militarization that is counter, at least in part, by a serious threat out there. host: karen has this twitter message -- guest: there is a similarity, of course, to the first iteration of the militia merv -- militia movement, the first wave in the 1990's, which have been in the clinton administration. i didn't there is some relationship to that. however, is very -- i think there is some relationship to that. however, the 1990's were a very

good economic times. that is obviously very untrue right now and i think about economy is taking a situation and making it worse than it was in the 1990's. i think one could argue that the anger out there seems to be broader and deeper this time around. host: regarding domestic terror plots, the splc documented -- more information from the southern part of law center. and we are talking with mark potok from there. our next crop -- call comes from charlotte, john on the independent line, go ahead.

host: i think your organization is one of the most corrupt and propaganda based organizations in this country. militias, by the way, are not unconstitutional. host: mr. potok? guest: and not quite sure -- i do not think we are spreading racism at all. i can't recall it as we see it. -- i think we call it as we see it. i would note that because anger of the caller is also directed at the department of homeland security. whatever one thinks of our analysis, it is clearly shared -- certainly, in its broad outlines, by virtually all of the law enforcement agencies in this country. i think we have seen an enormous

amount of violence or planned violence associated with the rise to power of obama. let's not forget that since obama became an nominee, if we have seen two racist skinheads plots to assassinate him. we have seen a man in maine found building a dirty borum with radioactive elements that he planned to set off at the inauguration. -- a dirty bomb with ray director elements that he planned to set off at the inauguration. we have seen a man storm and museum to kill black people because as he told officers later he had read that whites the premises had been subjected to genocide. -- white supremacist had been subjected to genocide. a story i will never forget, being the second and third graders in idaho chanting

"assassinates obama" on their way to school. i think as a whole we are moving forward as a country without any question at all, but we are in the middle of a backlash. a lot is going on in the world. the world is changing economically. this country is changing racially and in other ways. the economy is in the pits and as a result we see a lot of anger, a lot of demonizing of certain individuals, in particular the obama administration. i think what we're seeing out there is very real. host: james on the line for republicans out of warren, michigan. caller: i would like to thank you first for letting me talk on your program. there is a lot of anger out there. i am a militiaman. of of what i want to say is regard as -- regardless of who

had been president right now, there would be a lot of backlash for any president right now due to the economy. there are a lot of people out of work. there is a lot of confusion and anger. we're all in the same boat and we do not know where our next meal is coming from. host: is there a particular reason you joined the militia your index caller: -- the militia you are in? caller: i joined the militia i am in to keep an eye on government along with them keeping an eye on us. it is supposed to be hand in hand. host: do you feel threatened by the government? the government's caller: itself has caller: got worse with the the government -- caller: the

government itself has gotten worse with the page redact. we're not trying to knock down the government. -- the patriot act. we're not trying to knock down the government. everybody is in the same boat. i am a republican, a staunch republican. even if john mccain had been in there, we would still be doing the same thing we are doing right now. host: two questions before we wrap this up. are you white? caller: yes, i am. host: are there any black people in your militia group? caller: yes, about 1500. host: how many in the group altogether? caller: i cannot give you the exact numbers. i hope you understand. but we have a very diverse group. we do have color and we do have jews.

host: thanks for your call, james. start to cut your off. -- sorry to cut you off. guest: i simply do not believe him. 1500 block people in 1 militia group -- 1500 black people in 1 militia group, out of the question. i do not know any group that has 1500 people of any color. in the 1990's there was an occasional black person. it was not 100% white. was it 99 % or more white? absolutely. but to say that there are 1500 black members of the militia out there is simply false. host: francine on the line for democrats, go ahead. caller: i would like to make a

statement in reference to the last caller. why do they call themselves militia? to me, they are terrorists. what is the difference between them and the ones from other countries? there are to overthrow the government. -- they are allowed tout to overthrow the government. host: let's go to round rock, texas on our line for independents. caller: thank you for the opportunity to speak. a recently moved back to texas after being away for 40 years. i grew up here. i am a black person and i have in my family about five different cultures and i'm very pleased about that. but i do think that much is racially based. i have been pulled over by police more times than ever. i find the best