israel of the map," i think he means it appeared and when he denies the holocaust, i think he believes it. sometime in the course of this debate, roger will accuse me of a certain kind of emotionalism. he spoke earlier about the debilitating psychosis. but holocaust denial is something that ought to scare everyone of us in this room. .

all of these phrases are really no more than that. you would think it would have an almost incidental bearing on the nature of the regime. there be evidence wherever we go. you can always find evidence of pragmatism even in highly lunatic regimes. operation barbarossa was a well- planned operation. it is central to the regime. roger doesn't need to convince me that the iranians are sick and tired of their rulers. he doesn't need to convince any of us that this is a country that wants to be free. the debate is about what the regime is about, not what the people are about.

it is about misogyny, anti- americanism, and holocaust denial. because i have these views, it has consequences for the way i have looked and i think we should look at a nuclear iran and what the u.s. ought to do about it. as far as i can tell, he engagement -- the course of action is essentially to hang tight, hang back. this calls for sanctions or other kinds of -- this is a call for military action, said and wait. it is a threshold capability for nuclear weapons.

and what is maybe most important are vast consequences. it is the freedom of action in the region that we can only dream about today. we would be in a position to dominate the gulf. it would embolden support for hamas and hezbollah. and say nothing of the existence of palestinian moderates. it would force the united states into a position of containing a regime whose nationality we could never quite take for granted. it would create a situation in were both israel and iran would have an incentive to carry out a nuclear first strike on the other.

so, how are we going to go about preventing this? when roosevelt became president, he had a thought of what is similar. he said to try anything. un sanctions? unilateral sanctions? yes. at the gasoline embargo? yes. at last but not least, military strikes if necessary? yes. should military strikes cripple them for a period of time? you do it all over again. i suspect roger is going to make them as the debate unfolds. the bottom line is, when military strikes have unforeseeable consequences, and

military strikes always do, the foreseeable consequences are going to be worse. i think it is fair to say that the west, at jews in particular, have paid a terrible price. he wants to wipe israel off the map, and he said so. he denied the first holocaust to smooth the way for a second one. i find this unacceptable. it makes me emotional. i hope the same goes for all of you as well. thank you. [applause] >> thank you. thank you. thank you very much.

>> do you have a rejoinder? >> i will provide for that. before the rejoinders, i would like to invite members of the audience to fill out question cards that are under tables. we will see them into this machine and pose them to the debaters. those of you who are joining us to our global web cast,, you can go to ajc.org. let me begin with a question. " actually, let me begin with a rejoinder. >> thank you first of all for the hedge fund suggestion. when i look at my bank account, i sometimes feel that you are absolutely right. [laughter]

you're dismissing this vote completely out of hand, meaningless election. of course it is compared to ours. look at what they call an election in saudi arabia i arrived in iran today's are three days before the election. -- two or three days before the election. on the day before the election, a quiet day, every single poster went down. this is on like afghanistan, a country that is ready for democracy. on the night of june 12, there came this the ballot vote and all of the terrible things that happened happened. but iran came to the very brink.

it is still on a razor's edge in an exercise that brett and his ilk dismissed before hand as completely meaningless, of no interest whatsoever. i do not think that is right. this was a very important event. those of us who, before the election, identified the shifts and changes in iranian society at that moment, i think they were right. if they were around today, and said, what you think of? you may say [unintelligible] as she lies in the streets in blood. that is a very representative iranian, not particularly political, but wanting change and wanting a closer relationship with the world. that is an important shift that has come about. when you look at the bread, he looks like a mild-mannered guy.

[laughter] he looks gentle. but i have not found a war yet that he does not like. he likes the mall. -- them all. the peace process was a complete waste of time. he dismissed every peace process everywhere. he has a scenario under which the missiles were supposed to go from syria into no. 11 on recently. perhaps israel would like -- into northern lebanon recently. israel could attacked tehran with the excuse that it had been hit with missiles that were ultimately provided from tehran. he thinks that the iraq war is a good thing it was wonderful because we just held an election there. as i said, he looks very dental. he looks like a nice guy.

[laughter] and i am sure he is. i am some 20 years older than him. i have covered married -- i have covered many wars. it is not pretty. i do not enjoy seeing people dying. i do not see what he calls for more military action in iran. i am also opposed to iran gaining nuclear capability. i just don't think that war is the way to go. [applause] >> i am sure that roger does not remember this. i have written two fan letters in my life. one was to roll ball when i was -- roald dahl when i was a little boy for "charlie and the chocolate factory." the other was to a war correspondent roger fireline. he had written something -- a war correspondent, roger cohen. he had written from the front

line. i suspect that you probably favor, after those four bloody years, the american intervention to stop the genocide in bosnia. you obab nato's intervention on the genocide and you may have appreciated the liberation in 2003 of iraq. leaving northern ireland aside, irish you to tell me of a peace process that has worked. the oslo accord? does anybody want to talk about how the oslo accord worked? the colombian peace process

which led to the fort taking over routes -- led to the farc taking over an area the size of switzerland? he likes to talk about my ilk and warmongers and names like wolfowitz. for a long time, it was just neocons that argued that the regime in iran does not represent the will of the people. contrary to what roger was riding in february of last year, this couple accommodation had not been reached. the marches to freedom had not been so great. where a woman in a country is legally worth half a man is not a country that we can look at with a great deal of new ones. -- a great deal of nuance. i am talking about the regime.

about the matter of elections. -- elections, let me look at iran's neighbors. turkey has elections. they are democratic. pakistan has elections. they also wound up the posing a military dictator. so when you were talking about elections in the region, i am talking about the world outside of the arab court. by that, the elections in iran are a sham. this is something that did daniel patrick moynihan, another crazy neocon, has defined deviancy down. so we are not to think of it as is crazy regime whose president denies the holocaust, calls for

israel to be wiped off the map, remakes whenever a simple agreement, has a 30-year history of rejecting an agreement with the united states, but look at it as an extremely complex and nuanced regime. and fact, what we have learned is that it is the bluntest blunt instruments. this is the point on which we will agree. there is no greater visual of that than the murder in the streets of tehran in 2009. [applause] >> so i guess we will have a debate after all. there have been a number of questions that have been filtering through.

i am looking at one that comes from somebody in the audience who is asking about the iranian opposition to their own years of their nuclear program. there has been a focus on a -- there has been a focus attention to the need to a green movement. with that change the course of a nuclear program, one that even predates the current iranian regime? >> the nuclear program, through adept manipulation by ahmadinejad and others, has become the symbol of national pride in iran, comparable to the atmosphere that prevailed the nationalization of oil. i was told that they had these nuclear engineers who came to teach them. it is absolutely building. he did not understand world.

but he was told to go to out -- to go up to local mosques and villages and talk about the importance of a nuclear program. i think the iranians feel that they have the right to pursue a civilian nuclear program. certainly, there would be united on that. -- they would be united on that. you look out and use the nuclear armed india, nuclear armed pakistan, nuclear-armed russia, nuclear-armed israel and u.s. yourself some questions. -- and you ask yourself some questions. if there was some change, we would see it -- we would not see some overnight abandonment of the program. most obvious in measured man. he is not ahmadinejad his son when you can talk to.

he has denounced --musabi is not ahmadinejad. he has renounced -- he is someone you can talk to. we did sit down in geneva in october. there seemed to be a deal to get the low enriched uranium that would, under the worst- case scenario, the a-bomb. i'm fortunate, when that bill went back to tehran -- i unfortunately, one that went back to teheran, it fell apart. we need to make the breach and try to move forward.

that is what we need to try to do. >> besides the snide remark that i have not been in iran, it is true that you have been there five weeks. of course, that makes you an expert, maybe seven weeks. >> know, five. [laughter] >> the past editor in chief of the "jerusalem post." this -- a journalist was imprisoned. they currently hold three american day-tripper's in prison under circumstances that we are not particularly aware of. we are former colleagues for dan a crow. would it be inappropriate for me to go to iran?

>> "the jerusalem post" is a good newspaper. but it is not in iran. it is in jerusalem. if you believe that journalism goes to places, looking, feeling, smelly, in doing things, having the view from the ground, and then, yes, i would take any opportunity. unfortunately, we have all been barred from going there of late. but i would certainly urge you to go there and i think you would find it isn't like that instructed. would you will find something that will hurt a lot of people on the streets when your they are. >> i am sure that the people that you mean on the street are the ones that you find, people that want change in iran. i want to say something briefly

on the original question, which is on the nuclear question. why iran's nuclear bids so uniquely dangerous? it is not because they are bid by iran. it is not because their bids by persia, a nation state with certain spheres of influence, certain threats. that kind of nuclear terror and under the shock -- that kind of nuclear iran under the shah -- i do not think that -- i do not stay awake at night thinking that gordon brown has his finger on the bomb. >> probably because he does not. [laughter] >> but the reason i do not is because britain is irresponsible nuclear power.

-- is a responsible nuclear power. so is france. this cannot be stressed enough, so is israel. [applause] the reason we fear iran's nuclear bid is because these would be weapons that would fall into the hands of the leaders of the islamic republic, a regime that has world historical ambitions that does have -- i do not necessarily a prescribed to what the netanyahu does -- but does have an apocalyptic current running through it that has threatened its neighbors, but has called for the genocide of its neighbors. this is what i am driving at. the error and that i see roger >> the iran that i see roger often describing is under and that has personal ambitions. that is ok. should a regime come to power that is democratic and not an islamist regime, even if it

were to acquire nuclear reactors and a nuclear fuel cycle, it would not be the threat to the world and we would not be so desperately worried about it. [applause] >> we could keep going back and forth. >> what has president obama been trying to do since he took office? he has been trying to diffuse those islamists ambitions that you just described. how has he chosen to go about it and what is the difference with president bush? he has chosen not reach to the muslim world. i ask you, if iran were attacked, let us say by israel, how many of the world's 1.6 billion muslims are going to distinguish between israel and

the united states? possibly about 12 of them. what would then be left of this outrage? the united states would find itself effectively at war from the western border of iraq, across iraq, across iran, although we into afghanistan, and into western pakistan, across a 2,500 miles front. that average would lie in absolute tatters. iran could flip a switch and roll back all the progress we have seen in iraq of the last couple of years.

it could do something similar, not quite as powerfully, in afghanistan. what would hezbollah do in lebanon. what would happen in gaza? what would happen to security interests around the world? is nothing at all wrong with idealism. on the contrary -- but i think you need to temper your black- and-white, idealistic, manichean view of the world with a dose of what comes with aging, which is that sometimes you cannot getyou cannot take the draconian step because the repercussionsand i would urge you, as i said in my introduction, to drink a glass of sobriety. [applause] >> i think i could just leave the stage and let you guys go back and forth. but we have been flooded with questions from our web cast and from members of the audience. in the course of your back and forth, you have answered some of these questions, including one that we just received from the web about the impact of the bombing iran if that were the military option we would have to take. but let me get to another question that just came in from the web to both panelists. what would iran have to do to get you to change your views? roger, you've said that the iran could use pressure.

brett, what with iran have to do to get you to back off? >> of life roger, and this may be a bit of youthful optimism, but at of the world's 1.3 billion muslims all but 12 of them think exactly alike and are unable to distinguish israel from the united states. i actually credit to the muslim world with a great degree of intelligence and political

sophistication. [applause] what would iran have to do to change its course? it is very simple. it would have to abandon its nuclear fuel cycle. it would have to begin to come to terms with the deal that was offered in geneva, deals which, by the way, have become increasingly more generous by the west. every time they become more generous, the ring is reject them -- the iranians reject them again. why is that? maybe they want to bargain for more. why not make another generous offer. why not make bombs for them? [laughter] it is very hard for me to see any realistic, plausible scenario in which this regime under block moves ahmadinejad and under the leader -- under moahmoud ahmadinejad end end of the leader the meaning would happen. you'd have to persuade the iranians, as the u.s. persuaded libya, that their interests are better assured by not having a

nuclear weapon than by having one. the only way in which your plausibly going to do that is by ratcheting up the pressure so much that they have an interest in actually coming to terms. one of the great accident of history, in what year was it that iran actually abandon its opposition program? it was in 2003. what else happened in 2003? i cannot remember who won the super bowl that year. it must have been that the united states invaded iraq. the united states look like a big training and serious power. it was particularly serious of rogue regimes in search of nuclear power. that was something that persuaded the iranian regime to push the pause button on their

opposition program. that something was not american engagement. it was american seriousness. [applause] >> roger, how much more reckless and difficult with the iranians have to be to get you to change your views? >> i think deterrence is a way to contain iran. i think that deterrence can be effective, combined with pressure that president obama is applying. i cannot think of a set of circumstances in the realm of the seriously imaginable that changes that. i do not see a scenario under which -- is there a scenario under which i would support

going into iran? i do not see one. >> you are confident that deterrence would work. >> brett? -- you are confident that deterrence would work? >> yes. >> correct? [scoffs -- >> brett? [scoffs] [laughter] those to the left of me say that iran could be contained on the following lines. if iran violates any of the following conditions, there were suggestions that there could be some providing support to nuclear support to terror -- and then the united states would threaten to go to war with iran. >> that is what deterrences. that is what we practiced against the soviet union coming case you did not notice, for a large number of decades.

that is what the terence is. it is a credible threat. >> -- that is what deterrence is. it is a credible threat. >> let's say that the deterrence can work after all. israel has 200 weapons or whenever the number is. then has lost its lobbing 30 into israel today. one day, a family gets killed. then they said that we have to do something about this. we have to stop them from this kind of steady rain of terror. how do think that calculation is going to go? imagine that the iranians adopt

the nixon strategy, make them think you're crazy? that is what will happen. we are entering into a world -- this is in the literature that you can read up on, roger. we are entering into a world that has been described as ambiguous nuclear threat. iran would constitute an ambiguous nuclear threat to israel. it would spend the next 20 years or 30 years of its existence making life in israel in tolerable. similarly, in the united states, we would have to say about an excise tax for whatever small demands were met, are we really ready to go to war against iran for this? this is the current scenarioi know i am extremely young. i am barely 17 years old and have no memory of the cold war. [laughter] but i am told by my elders that

the cold war was actually the scary thing. some of you in this room where practicing drills and curling up under desks. this is now held up to us as a perfect model for what we should hope for in the future because the price of stopping iran is too great to bear. [applause] >> if you're watching as -- >> can i come back for a second. >> yes, but just a moment. please bear with us. we have had quite a lot of questions. we will get to them as soon as we can. roger, i wanted to pick up on a comment you made in your opening.

you talked about the iranian nuclear program. i heard you say that it is still ambiguous. i fail to see the ambiguity. is it possible to ! the ambiguity. they seem to be working -- is a possible to explain the ambiguity. they seem to be working very hard at it. >> jason, as you know, they have not determined whether the decision has been made in iran to weapon is, to actually try to turn this into leu. weather and wants to go further and put itself closer to the japanese situation where it could, in theory, break out or if it ever wants ever to build a device, let alone a deliverable the vice -- all of those questions are still out

there. in that sense, the programs and a goal is ambiguous. -- the program's end goal is ambiguous. the iranians play on this ambiguity. they are blood merchants. they are tantalizing the world and all of us with the ambiguity of this program. as i said, why is this program taking so long? as i said, brett looks so friendly. [laughter] but he really likes the notion, i think, of war. i listen to that ominous drumroll, but is this what we

want to do, a quick iran with a deviancy and all of these words that we heard? what happened a few years ago? we thought -- may be iraq -- we thought maybe wmd's. yes, they have wmd's. we thought that ambiguity was not worth of dwelling on with respect to a record there was not really much of a plan for what we would do afterward. what happened happened. i think is foolish in life just to go forward without drawing any lessons whatsoever from

one's actions. i think that the change you have seen from president obama trying to get out of iraq, setting dates in afghanistan, punching very hard in pakistan with the drones -- he is trying and reaching out in the cairo speech, heavily focused on israel and pakistan. he is trying to get americans to stop thinking like brett, to stop going to bed at night thinking that armageddon is good to hit us tomorrow, stop imagining that all is dark and a doomsday and that the drumroll you heard is [unintelligible] here we are at the dawn of the 21st century. maybe we can make this century a little bit better than the last one. maybe, however difficult is, with their and with whom we have been in the situation for 31 years of paralysis, maybe we can do what we did with our former enemy in beijing. if you look at the shanghai communique, what does it say? it says that the united states and china agree on absolutely nothing, except one thing, that

it is better to have contacted relations and try to deal with their difficulties that with and not to have them. and he is right, ladies and gentlemen. instead of inviting us all to that nuclear nightmare, to say they're there -- to say there is an alternative. [applause] >> roger, thank you. i am tempted to join this debate, but that is not my role. >> just very briefly. i am amused by the last line that i am the warmonger on the states. -- on this stage. when i am trying to do very simply is that a regime that calls for the annihilation of israel and denies the holocaust should not be allowed, under any circumstances, to acquire the means by which they can annihilate israel and perpetrate the second holocaust. [applause]

roger has this wonderful caricature that i am this young man enamored by war. this is baloney. this is ridiculous. " i am trying to say -- by the way, taking out through military strikes nuclear facilities in iraq and other places is not something that [unintelligible] >> i am sure that it would be forgotten about the next day. it would be a minor incident. >> no, it would be a major incident. i hope it does not come to that. i hope that the iranians can be dissuaded from their course before it comes to that. >> i believe they can be.

>> that is very happy thinking. against the evidence of uninterrupted year of mistaken predictions from roger, you're on a roll. [laughter] this gets to something that is in the air. nixon went to china. if america could have made peace, which would have been a more brutal and violent, after sticking a for taiwan and all this, why can obama go to tehran? the answer is that the invitation has not been issued. why has the imitation not been issued? it is worth reading kissinger's memoirs. an american ping-pong team showed up somewhere and the chinese played them. there were signals. there was clearly a sign from mao opening up to the west. he feared an enemy more than he did the west, which was the soviet union. it would be lovely to imagine some scenario, i do not know which one exists, but there are some analysts in washington who

would love the united states and iran to team up against israel and make that the common enemy -- that forbid that should ever happen. but there is an analogy that roger uses that has no basis in fact. we have been trying to engage with iran, not just for the last year, not just for four years during bush's second term, but throughout the clinton administration. the late carter administration tried to engage with khamenei. every single time it failed. why is it that we are perched on a course that has failed so

repeatedly. this is something for roger to>> let's break and then go to a question. several questions have been coming into us from our audience and from our global web cast at ajc.org. whether making alliances with authoritarian leftist regimes in latin america, one in particular, but not just one, the degree to which we should be focusing in this discussion, in this debate, iran's international influence? how do we check iran's influence? for their engagement? -- further engagement? >> this is the great game. they -- we try to extend our affluence. they try to extend their we need to check or limit or curtail their influence wherever we can. should we be in a high state of

alarm and not be able to sleep at night because hugo chavez and ahmadinejad like to embrace each other? no parent should we worry that -- know. -- no. should we worry that relations have improved between iran and bolivia? no. clearly, iran's links with hezbollah and hamas are much more worrying. where we can check and the limit, we should. i think the president has done some intelligent things. brett's no doubt thinks it was the lousy idea to send an ambassador back to domestic -- back to damascus in syria. i do not. i think it was a good idea. the iranian-syrian relationship is an important one. if we can talk to syria about peace and if we have an ambassador there, that is a good thing.

brett favors confrontation wherever he can find its. find it -- find it. i favor finding it in other ways. >> brett? >> i'm glad that you mentioned syria. you will remember, just a few years after they blew to bits [unintelligible] there was this belief, especially in incoming members of the obama state department, that syria could be pulled away, out of the ring in orbit. this is one of these aspects of the berlin diplomacy that currently nobody had ever thought of -- of the brilliant diplomacy that currently nobody had ever thought of.

this is what we do. we make it clear that we want any relationship with syria. we are sending an ambassador. and then what happened last february 25. ahmadinejad goes to damascus and said once again that we should look for it to the annihilation of the state of israel and part of the zionist microbe -- >> hold on. musharraf says that american colonialism needs to stop. this is the sort of signal that the syrians have been sending us while we are trying to engage. at some point, you have to treat these regimes as not being totally idiotic for confounding our mysterious and that they may actually mean what they say. the sun and the father had been

playing this game with the west going on for more than 30 years. they create promises to solve these problems for us and they create them again another perfect -- again. another perfect example of the court that roger has been creating for the past year. >> ahmadinejad goes to kabul and is received by karzai. no doubt he thinks we should remove the ambassador to afghanistan and protests. perhaps we should break off relations with brazil and possibly threaten brazil. as you will discover, this is not the way the world works. >> and gentlemen, you have a panel rejoinder. >> i just find it amusing, again.

>> back in 2003, just before the war, the bush administration tried to cobble together a final authorizing sanctions resolution. people like roger and his ilk were saying, what do you not see how incompetent the bush administration is? what are we doing now? we are begging the that the turks for the brazilians were rotating members of the security council for another round of resolutions which they show no interest in doing. god forbid we should never break off our relations with brazil. there people are much too beautiful. [laughter] >> why does this rule not apply in iran and then? >> actually, brazil is not iran and i am sure you know the

difference. >> on the baristas. anyway. >> the gentlemen, gentlemen. are you finished with your response? >> we have been here a long time. our minds are beginning to wonder. [laughter] >> that is not what we were expecting. [laughter] we are continuing to receive your questions. thank you for those in the audience to have been sending in their questions as well. there is a question here from a viewer. how did the policies advanced by either debater advance the cause of democracy in iran? >> first of all, full support by the obama administration for the people who are bravely demonstrating, risking their

lives, having themselves and their children thrown into prison. [applause] not what president obama has done, which is hidden for weekend said that we do not want to interfere in your internal affairs. this kind of makes us uncomfortable. when you look at successful resistance movement, freedom movements, when you look at what happened in south africa, in poland, you find that the moral support that was provided by the west turns out to be crucial to the people who most needed it. there is a wonderful moment when they get wind that the cowboy ronald reagan has called the soviet union the evil empire. he is cheered because the president of the united states

does not buy into the lie that the soviet union has been perpetrating for so long. the same is true for nelson mandela in south africa. shamefully, has a lot of people on the conservative side of the argument made that very point. back then, the conservative case for south africa is not so different from the one that roger is making for iran. this is a reality that is not going to change. there are great dangers in regime change. we have to deal with the devil we know. it behooves the the administration to give them every opportunity [unintelligible] that is absolutely crucial. to the obama administration's credit, particularly hillary clinton, she has taken initiative to open up an electronic access -- which has

been suppressed by the regime -- to twitter. even i am too old to figure out what all of these technologies are. it is essentially the same thing that the west did, both on the left and the right, in poland during the solidarity years. they provided printing presses for solidarity so that they could circulate. the main point is that we did not forget what happened in 1980. we did not forsake the solidarity movement for the political conveniences with of the soviet union which, even in the 1980's, we saw implacable with a regime that this unacceptable. [applause] >> how can weigh up the

democracy movement in iran? >> we are in the pivotal moment in this debate because i agree with brett. [applause] [laughter] i was on the streets of tehran after the elections. people were saying, where's obama? i think the president was way too hesitant, not in phatic -- not impact -- not emphatic enough. he got stronger statements, but he was not there in time. in the remains of the day, iran was on a razor's edge for about six days. the authorities were at a loss. they had not foreseen this. i will never forget june 15, being out on the streets with 2

million to 3 million iranians who had risen up to reclaim their votes. every single person, myself included, who went down to the avenue between revolution and freedom, on that broader avenue that stretches for 5 miles or 6 miles, everybody went down there with your in their hearts. -- with fear in their hearts. everybody came down into that avenue thought to themselves, "my god, this is actually happening." there was no end to the crowd, there was no end to it, and ask us up to this day, m mousavi had stood there and said, here i stamp and we're turning on the presidential palace -- fear would have evaporated. what would have happened? we are talking about a hypothetical. it does not have much use in history because it is what has not happen or did not happened. what i just described is what did not happen.

i believe that the president should be firm in his denunciations' of human rights abuses. the attempts to offer technology filters to the iranian people to enable them to strip from that the clampdown in the digital field, all that is good. but here we began to disagree again. his characterization of the cold war is not exactly accurate. they taunt was an important component. -- detente was an important component. if you look at the events of 1989 to the fall of the wall,president bush sr., effectively, had a pittance, said that we had to wait for this to unfold and not do anything rash. in some ways, iran is like poland in the 1980's today. i will not say that it is a

difference about your age. i think we have tired of that metaphor. but sometimes it requires the calibration of two parties. -- to policies. in this case, it is trying to get some talking going with the regime, support for the green movement, rather than just saying, "to have all that. we are going in all guns blazing in support of the democracy movement and damn the rest." i don't think that is the way to go. [applause] >> roger, i have a question from the web. you have written about the well-being of the iranian jews. you painted a positive portrayal of iranian jews. i wonder if you still believe that and what do you see as the future for iran's jews? >> i said that i wrote about

iranian jews, not the well- being of iranian jews. i wrote it because i ran into the iranian jewish community i had not expected to do that. i attended a service there in a synagogue. this was right after the israeli incursion into gaza. as you recall, there was a great deal of outrage around the world. synagogues were being attacked in the suburbs of paris, in caracas, in leon. there were various antisemitic acts going on around the world. everybody knows where the jewish community lives in tehran. everybody knows where the jewish community is in [unintelligible] [cough] they were trying to whip up a frenzy as much as they could.

in the immediate aftermath of the gaza, had a jewish store, was there a single incident that i could determine for an attack of the jewish committee in iran? no. although the jewish community is much reduced, it is the largest board jewish community still in the muslim middle east along with turkey. estimates range from 20,000 to 25,000 jews still in iran. i thought it was worth raising the question. here's a man, president ahmadinejad, making this a vial, abhorrent and night -- annihilation as threats to israel and you really believe

that this is a maniacally antisemitic, absolutely ruthless regime bent on killing as many jews as possible, as fast as possible. why not start here on your doorstep while you have 25,000 of them? there are red lines. i talk about it a jewish spy ring that the iranians had invented. but i had said, at the same time, that to the jewish community here exists. there are red lines. if you organize against the regime, you're going to get into trouble. there are more severe for the jewish community in iran than

for others. dues can vote for -- [unintelligible] they are all these things. but i felt that this was a reality of iranian society that was worth taking note of. a lot of people seem to think that was unacceptable. i think we should look things in the eye. in general, -- we have tried greenstones in the middle east. we built one. we build imaginary world trade in the end, you come back to reality. this is part of the reality of this multifaceted regime, not monolithic, not totalitarian, as brett would argue these nuances -- would argue. these nuances count. >> you mentioned green's zones -- green zones.

that comes from a column you wrote. no one has constructed a more imaginary world then roger cohen, a place in which iran is a relatively safe haven for its 25,000 jews how many jews wear in iran before the revolution? i think it was about 100,000 jews. >> how many jews were in egypt? how many jews were in iraq? how many jews were in syria? >> the argument you're making is that, because it is not auschwitz, it is ok. it may not be hitler at the moment, but it is bizarre. and jews may have some memories of the bizarre. that was a very notorious column by you. it got a lot of attention. i was flabbergasted when you quoted in a couple of iranian

jews. he quoted them by name i know i am barely 17 years old, but i have been in the crafted journalism long enough and know that if you go there and you quote someone by name, they're not going to to give you all of it. they are probably going to say, so far so good. >> you would get preferred "a jew said?"\ >> that is not the point. i would get preferred speaking to people that, by virtue of giving their names, they did not necessarily mean what they said. when you go to a country where three jews out of four jews have left, the iranian regime is not a stupid regime. the virtue that the jews over

and play in this particular theology of theirs is to say -- that the jews of iran play in this particular theology is to say that that we respect the jewish religion, right? we just do not respect to zionism or any aspect of modern jewish life to which 90% of other jews in the world subscribe to. . .

god forbid we should ever live in a scenario of having a few good jews who are expected in their society at the price of espousing the right political opinion. [applause] >> gentlemen, we have 10 minutes left in this discussion. there's one last question that we have been getting repeatedly. i need a brief responses, one minute, really. and then two minutes closing statements. it has to do with the connection between the israeli-palestinian problems with iran. well a peace agreement between us toward resolution with the iranian nuclear program? >> as elusive and as

unimaginable as the waever, i tk the fed is trying to build the rudiments -- i think al fayad is trying to build the rudiments of that could be a partner. >> that helps us with iran? >> yes. it does not just help us with iran. it helps us with the world. this is a conflict that poisons our relations with all sorts of people. it is a lightning rod. you know the cable channels that are out there today. you know the images that it is illegal out over them. if we can afford, yes -- you know the images that go out over

them. >> temperatures are actually going to decline and global warming will be resolved. all good things will happen. of course, this is completely assured. there is this to that, because of the israeli-palestinian conflict, we are embroiled elsewhere in the middle east as a of the sectarian conflicts that characterized iraq for the tribal conflicts that characterized afghanistan will somehow vanished because we have resolve the palestinian- israeli conflict. we need to try to work in some serious way to address israel- palestine. this will shock you, but the ultimate ideal solution for israel and palestine is a two- state solution based on a credible palestinian state. but you are never going to get

that if, with in palestinian politics, hamas, the group that has been supported by iran, becomes stronger and political moderates within the palestinian community become marginalized. this is one of the reasons why a nuclear iran is so toxic to the hope of any kind of peace agreement between israel and anyone. do think that israel will withdraw from an inch of territory if they feel that a hamas government that is deeply supported by iran and has a threat of nuclear plants behind it [unintelligible] [applause] >> and gentlemen, thank you very much. we now have five minutes left. let's take two minutes apiece.

let's begin with you, roger, for final statements. >> i would start by saying that a lot of people in iran have changed places. they were in the mode of reluctant acquiescence to this regime. they are now opposed to it. the regime and the people of iran are moving in different directions, opposite directions. the iranian people are a noble people. they have a sincere desire to move toward a situation where the second word in the country's name, "republic," actually means something. as the united states, we should be careful to try to norrish that trend and move it forward rather than to do anything rash that would damage it. brett has tried hard to characterize me as somebody who is acquiescent, that things are

just fine for iran to move toward a nuclear capacity or even a device that' it might have. this is untrue. nothing that i have written should suggest that. we should, indeed, do whatever we can to prevent that happening. i think that president obama, right now, is doing a pretty good job of that. the difference that he will build up in the gulf will be visible to the iranians. if he can persuade iran's allies, russia and china, to come aboard on the security council, the iranians will feel more isolated as a result of that. these are the kinds of things that can move us in the right direction. to suggest that it would be a good thing, as bread keeps doing, to allow israel or encourage israel to attack iran

or to attack iran ourselves, in the current environment in the middle east, this would be an absolute disaster. that sinister music that you heard at the beginning with then began more represent the world we are moving into. we need to work in the opposite direction. it is difficult. it is arduous. it seems out of reach. but, in some ways, we are tantalizingly close. october 1, we did have an outline of a deal. that is where we need to focus our cells, on the young iran, the iran that wants change,fiuñt to the sinister and a deep in a country that brett seems so intent on portraying. thank you. [applause] >> i am glad to hear brett and knowledge that we need to do whatever we can to prevent iran from going nuclear.

it is to -- it is to present -- it is depressing to me that "would ever we can" means -- " whatever we can" means so little. this is a serious threat that we would face in the united states, that the israelis would phase, that the arabs would face, if iran should be so emboldened by the nuclear cycle of a nuclear weapon. there has been a strange character to this debate. supposedly, he is the liberal and i am the neoconservative. in fact, my objection to iran's acquisition, my fundamental

objection of iran's acquisition of a bomb is not a strategic acquisition. it is not an american or pro- israel objection. it is fundamentally a liberal objection. there was a time when liberals believed that liberalism had to be fought for. liberalism had to be defended. yet liberalism was not a strategy of purchase surrendered to tyrants, whether they were totalitarian or messianic or sort of messianic or potentially messianic but with interesting nuances and twists that roger has described so admirably in his comments. these certain sets of values have to be defended and when they are so grievously violated in a country like iran, that calls for us to respond forcefully.

it is not incidental to the character of the regime to say that a woman is legally with half that of a woman. it is not incidental to the character of a regime that hangs homosexuals. ahmadinejad goes to columbia university, of all places, and says that homosexuals do not exist in iran. it is not incidental that they deny the holocaust these are the central facts of the regime. this is a regime that understands itself above all ideologically and theologically and we deceive ourselves by saying that those are mere words. roger and i have one more thing in common. we are in the word business. we believe that words matter. it is incumbent on all of you to

take that to heart and realize that iranian words matter, too. if you treat them as a kind of meaningless obscenity, a former political pornography, you are setting yourself up for grave danger. that has been my argument this morning. i thank you for listening to me. [applause] >> and gentlemen, thank you very much. [applause] this debate is over, but i know that it will continue in the columns of "the new york times" and "the wall street journal." ladies and gentlemen, we are adjourned. >> you are invited to visit the buffet in the foyer and a return to the ballroom with your lunch. thank you. >> the senate is spending the

week on financial regulations. senators are offering amendments today. you can see live coverage of c- span 2. >> political primary debates are on the way in several states. tonight, will have the democrats soughprimary debate in kentucky. that starts at 8:00 p.m. eastern. after that debate, at 9:00 p.m. eastern, there is a look at the california governor's race and the republican primary to replace arnold schwarzenegger. >> the british election is on may 6. c-span is covering the leaders, issues, and process. we talked with a british

journalist about nick clegg. >> for the sake of our future, do not waste it. choose the liberal democrats. >> people here are already comparing him to barack obama. i have seen obama speak. his catch phrases are "fired up ," "ready to go." he is no barack obama. he is kind of refreshing and a little bit different. he is very earnest. he does not so much do you sound bite as a sound of all you can eat buffet." -- as a sound "all you can eat buffet." hundreds turned out in huge

numbers. what they got were lecture notes. he did remind me of michael dukakis. dukakis used to talk to the audience as if they were taking notes, as if they were students who were writing it all down a bit of course, there were not. that is why george bush told levy readied -- said everything 15 times. he gives every detail of what he wants, which is great. but he does not get the juices going. >> why is he doing so well in the polls? >> because he is different. david cameron has been around a long time. people do not like him so much. he is not like a tony blair was so popular when he came to power. he is a little bit smoother. he is a public-relations man. it is kind of like being ruled

or possibly ruled by one of those guys from "madmen," the tv series. >> you can watch this interview another british election events on our website, c-span.org. go to "featured links" and click on the 2010 british elections page. >> c-span coke affairs content is available on television, radio, an online. you can connect with us on twitter, facebook, and youtube. you can schedule our alert e- mail. >> tomorrow morning on "washington journal," we will speak with stephen power about the oil spill off the gulf of mexico. as the senate debates financial regulation this week, michael greene berger, formerly of the commodity futures trading commission will focus on credit rating agencies. then, from "the washington post," allah, gillis will talk

about the immediate impact. -- alec the gillimacgillis willk about the immediate impact. >> next, we have an immigration protests in new york. there is a protest about the new immigration law in arizona. it is hosted by a the immigrant laborers union. >> on behalf of the alliance for immigrant rights and jobs for all we give you a grand wellcome.

[speaking spanish] emigrant committees, labor, and elected officials are together under one banner. giving workers the right to join unions without fear of intimidation, we call for an end to the explication of low-wage workers, especially immigrant workers. we call for immigration reform now. speaking [spanish] -- [speaking spanish] [applause]

we want to ensure the future for immigrants use. we call for all people throughout this nation to stop verrazano's attempt to criminalize immigrant community is -- to stop arizonas attempted to criminalize immigrant communities. [speaking spanish] we call for jobs. in the worst economic crisis

since the great depression, the united states of america has created a water divide between the rich and the poor. the labor movement of workers are blamed for the indecent wages and benefits. we want wall street to stop fighting reform. demonstration two days ago to call wall street to stop and to pay up. [speaking spanish]

[speaking spanish] i am the co-chair of these events and of the alliance. [unintelligible] i would like to present -- we

have national leaders with us. we are privileged to have the executive vice president of the national afl-cio. he is the highest ranking african-american in the labor movement and the highest-ranking woman in the african-american movement -- highest-ranking african-american woman in the labor movement. she is here today to join us in new york city from the national afl-cio. john me in welcoming our leader. [applause] -- please join me in welcoming our leader. [applause] >> are we fired up and ready to

go for immigration reform now? [cheers] >that is what i am talking about. we were here two days ago marching on wall street on behalf of our workers and our communities. today, we stand marching again in the streets all around this country. it is time for immigration reform and it is time for it now. just this past wednesday, we celebrated worker's memorial day. we remembered and honored all of those workers across our country who lost their lives or were injured on the job. that is painful enough.

what i want you to know -- i am scared that those who are most at risk of dying on the job our immigrant workers. the workers who lack legal status, those who know that if they report to dangers on the job, they will be torn away from their families and their communities and deported. so i ask you this, my sisters and brothers, if our nation has workers to frightened to stand up for their rights of protection on a job, like a minimum wage or the right to form and join a union, is this what we want?

no, this is not the system that we want. i say, no. what do you say? [crowd chant] we need to save all workers' rights, regardless ofc race or ethnicity or nationality or immigration status. we will not see that day until we fix the broken immigration system that invites these grave injustices to occur. we need a comprehensive immigration reform and we need it now. [cheers and applause] here is what we mean. we do not need unconstitutional policy is like the one that was

signed last week in arizona and we do not need laws that require police to stop and question anyone who calls reasonable suspicion over their immigration status. that makes a mockery of our constitution. the law does not tell us what "suspicious" means. but we know all too well of that, in arizona, that means brown skin, and a foreign accent, and you are likely speaking spanish. sisters and brothers, we have fought too long, too hard, battles to stop the government from doing exactly what the arizona law will do, racial profiling. we have called the department of justice to stand up to protect our civil rights by stopping

arizona from instituting this bill guided and constitutional law. we oppose and terminate all programs [unintelligible] we call on congress to act. we need comprehensive immigration reform. on that note, we want to say, senator schumer -- we want to thank senator schumer for showing great leadership. today, he called for the department of justice to stand up and defend our civil rights by bringing immediate action to

arizona. together, with senator schumer, with all of us in the labor movement, with workers, with our community, together we will ensure that all workers' rights are protected and civil liberties and civil rights are guaranteed. together, we must make this happen. together, we stand. together, we will see [unintelligible] thank you. [cheers and applause -- cheers and applause] >> thank you sister. >> [unintelligible] we want to celebrate may day. i am proud to present our

executive vice president for workers and immigrant rights. [cheers and applause] >> good afternoon, new york. we are here today in to say, loud and clear, america needs immigration reform. every day, without immigration reform, it means that more people are going to die in the desert and that is wrong. every day without immigration reform means that 12 million undocumented workers will be exploited by unscrupulous employers and that is wrong. every day without immigration reform means that students will not be able to continue their

education because of their legal status and that is wrong. every day without immigration reform means more deportation, more families being separated, and more pain and suffering and that is wrong. every day without immigration reform means more discriminatory and unconstitutional laws like ab 1070 in arizona, and that is wrong. ym[cheers] so we are here today to say enough is enough. we need immigration reform and we need it now. president obama, we appreciate your support.

but we need you to take more leadership and keep pushing so that we can get immigration reform passed this year. democrats, we need you to be courageous. we need you to fight for immigration reform. that is the right thing to do. and republicans, we need you to stepped-u up. the ninth intolerance in your party and help us pass immigration -- deny intolerance in your party and help us pass immigration reform. are you part of the solution -- independence, are you part of the solution or part of the problem?

this is the path to political power. we will make sure that, in november, and there will not be one of immigrant vote for a republican for governor or congress. brothers and sisters, if we continue to fight together, we will win together. let's continue fighting for comprehensive immigration reform. and let's boycott arizona until they reform. let's make sure that every immigrant and every person of good will is registered to vote.

if we turn out in record numbers in november to reward our friends and to punish our enemies, we will be heard. can we do it? [cheers] can we do it? [shares] -- [cheers] [speaking spanish] >> now, charles rangel. >> muchas gracias, amigos. we have high hopes that we can correct what is going on here. i am so proud of you -- i am so proud to be on the stage with what america is.

we have a white, muslims here, people from puerto rico, people from africa, april from europe, people from israel. that is the united states of america. [cheers] the only people have the right to stop foreigners from coming to the united states are the american indians, but they did not stop columbus. so what does it mean? what do people think america is all about? they think that america is a magnet that attracts the best of all countries. any country that people do not want to leave and instead but want to come man should open up those doors to be as great as we can be. first of all, arizona made a big

mistake. nobody, except in those world war ii pictures, can say "let me see your papers." it is an american. it is wrong. americans deserve better than that law in arizona. but some good can come out of this. we cannot have that stain on us. it means that congress must move and it must move fast. we have many from new york who can tell you that, in the congress, our delegation is split. from texas, we have sheila jackson lee.

wearier to tell you that you can depend on york -- we are here to tell you that you can depend on your new york city delegation to do the right thing. this is not just compassion america needs you just as you badly need america. we need your brains. we need your back. we new york -- we need your help his ambitions. we need you to pay social security. we need you to become a part of this great country. we have not slam the doors on anybody. just because the complexion is different, we are not morally prepared to close the doors on our friends all over the world. we can do it. we have to do it. we promised to do it. and we will do it. and we can count on your support so that all of us together can say one day that we participated

in this march and we made a difference for america, for democracy, and for the world. god bless you. [cheers and applause] [speaking spanish] >> now we have the great privilege to hear from a great organization who was a partner in coordinating this century event. it is a great leader fort immigrant rights and a great ally for the labor movement. >> thank you. hello, new york. [cheers] today, we are here to say, "

stock arizona." we have marched on washington. we have marched in new york. we have talked to president obama. we have suffered through half a million deportations and families separated. we have waited patiently for other bills to pass. and what do we get to? we get arizona. instead of a solution, we get a racist response to a broken immigration system. but arizona has galvanized democrats all over the country. we are party -- we are part of rallies in 40 states for justice. [cheers] so today we are going to enter the question, "what does it take

to win?" first, president obama muscle lead. he is in charge. president obama, you are in charge. you must stop the deportations. we will not have a situation where more deportations have been now than under president bush. we're not want to take that anymore -. we are showing you that the storm does not pass saying. -- is not passing. we are asking the leadership in the house and in the senate to stand up for america. to the republicans, stop being

the party of obstructionism. if you are not for -- if you say no to immigrants, immigrants will say no to you. today, we are making history. we were meant to tell the story of the oppressed, criminalize the immigrants rising up [unintelligible] [speaking spanish] >> thank you. now to address you is our guest from the city council of new york. [applause] >> thank you. first, let me thank everyone who organized this today.

all of them are here today to send some very clear messages. first and foremost, n.y. will never become arizona. [cheers and applause] this is the most diverse city in the world. our friends come from our diversity. we are going to teach new york what it is and what it has always been -- an immigrant city. we have an obligation to not care of our own city and state, but to care about our country. when we met in the first council midi's sense arizona passed -- council meeting since arizona passed this law, we passed a

resolution. some people said, why doesn't matter what new york thinks about arizonan? one, if you are quiet, people think you are endorsing the policy. so we have to speak up. secondly, the thing that will change what happened in arizona and force comprehensive care's asian is a comprehensive immigration reform is all about -- and force comprehensive immigration reform is all of us standing up. people in arizona are our brothers and sisters. it you heard them, you hurt us. thank you for and god bless all of our workers and god bless our immigrants. [cheers and applause]

>> now to address you as my congresswoman. >> speak [in spanish] -- [speaking spanish] my and friends, today is not just a day to remember the movement. it is a day to recommit ourselves to the movement before us. we must continue to fight for the rights of all workers. that means undocumented workers. [cheers] we must fight arizona. we must fight to the draconian law in arizona. it is not only unjust, and laurel, but also -- it is not only unjust and immoral. it is also unconstitutional.

this law is backward. in the ongoing struggle to provide civil rights for all, it legalizes racial profiling and discrimination. shame on you, governor from arizona. shame on you, arizona. for every american, this law plunders the first element of our dialogue. that time is now. the time for comprehensive immigration reform is now. thit is not enough for the

democrats and president obama to say that we tried. to the republicans, it is not enough to say that they are winninwilling to deport. we cannot negotiate with ourselves. we need you. we need [unintelligible] continue stalling and you will be delegated to my current status for years to come. [cheers and applause] [speaking spanish] i want everyone here who is not registered to vote to register. i want everyone here to come out to vote. i want you to fight the republicans and democrats who will oppose a comprehensive immigration reform.

>> ok. we have [unintelligible] >> [speaking spanish] have been made day. may day is a workers -- habeehay may day. may is a workers' holiday. you have reminded us that

workers have no borders. no human being is illegal. new york is marching. 15,000 people marched on wall street last week. thousands are in unions were today. and thousands of you have marched to city hall. new york is marching in the name of immigrants in arizona, in the name of miners in west virginia, in the name of oil workers in new orleans, in the name of workers in haiti. today is a great day. this is what we're working for. [cheers] >> [speaking spanish]

we are the great working-class majority. [chanting in spanish]

this is what we are fighting for. fight for labor rights. immigrant rights. and jobs, good jobs for all. >> i am the daughter of filipino immigrants, of the director of immigrant services, and a member of the immigration coalition. today and every day for work, we will fight in our communities. [unintelligible] we will fight discussing laws like arizonan ab 1070.

we will fight excluding the undocumented from health care, higher education, and citizenship. we demand full rights for immigrant workers. we demand humane and comprehensive immigration reform. that includes legalization, citizenship, and higher education. we demand the protection of the rights of immigrant families to live together. we demand international worker trade policies. we demanded that new york, our beautiful state and city, he a safe place for any grants, free of the partition of families. most importantly, we demand the repeal of arizona a's anti-

immigrant law. we demanded no cuts in public services. we demand that every public school be a great school. we demand [unintelligible] we demand the restoration of mass transit and free travel for students. we demanded that new york city and state close the budget gap through progressive taxation, not through a tax on workers. we demand money for jobs, money for schools, money for housing, not for war. we call for a radical shift in economic and political policy in the interest of all of us, the great working-class majority. today is a great day. but tomorrow is even more important.

take this struggle. take this back to your communities and your unions. with that -- with you, there is no limit to what we can do. have been made -- have be made a, new york. -- happy mayday, n.y.. >> now we have sheila jackson. >> thank-you for all of you who are gathered here to share this day with me in. on this past wednesday, the tri- caucus gathered together and said, " never again."

we will not stand for taking away the rights and dignity of all americans. america is the place of hope. this land is our land. the question is "who is america? we are america." we are america. today is the first day of may. at the end of the month, we will commemorate and celebrate the fall and who have fallen and taken their -- given their lives for our freedom. i as arizona today, when you stop a car, will you know whether it is a returning iraqi veteran, a very -- a vietnam veteran, a world war ii veteran? will you know whether that brother or sister shared his blood for america so that we might be free? [cheers and applause]

if you cannot tell me that you will know that they did not shed their blood or that their family members have not shed their blood, then i want you to stand on the law that does not represent the values of this great nation. i, too, am an american. i want you to know that my grandmother left jamaica, went to panama, and once again to this great nation. i ask the question. are we americans if we are native americans, latinos, polish, from the caribbean, italian or are we americans because a young man came from paris and was a student and said i am on status. i can barely walk around. i am in condo.

i am less than human. i am going to fight for him. and i'm going to fight for you. as i close, let me say to you. in the name of the brothers and sisters to why not here because they were willing to go overseas somewhere and fall for me so that i might be free, to arizona, i am going to join with the young legislator in texas and that says that the arizona law is dangerous. although we saddened by anyone who gets shot by drug dealers on the aborteborder, we need civiln the border. as we fix this comprehensive system, we will fix the border where all of us live.

arizona governor, you should not have prayed for the bill through you should pray for your soul and that america will do the right thing. you have many brothers and sisters across america, including texas, who will stand for the constitution and the soldiers who gave their lives so that i might live. thank you and god bless you. [cheers and applause] >> i had the great pleasure to introduce a man who stands side- by-side and shoulder to shoulder with the labor movement. [unintelligible] raymond, she no -- raymond

maccino. >> hola, hola, hola. [speaking spanish] good afternoon. it is my pleasure and honor to be here, especially with these two great leaders here in new york city. just look around and see all of the orange shirts. are there a few laborers here? [cheers and applause] a that is a testament. i want to say on behalf of the general president and more than one half million members of the labor international union in north america, we bring you greetings and best wishes for a happy and successful mayday. is celebrated around the world

and means different things in different cultures. this may day, more than any other time in our recent history, it is important that all of us stand together and, with one voice, crowley said, "today, we stand as one people -- with one voice, and proudly say, "today, we stand as one people." certain leaders and our society use power to divide our people. it's pitches neighbors against neighbors. we have come too far to allow this narrow minded view of afew.

we need to recognize that it was the failure of the federal government to act that allowed arizona to take these a drastic steps. for years, in the labor movement, is amazing and what we have seen the government enact. now we find ourselves with something that has led to racial profiling. it turns local law enforcement into a political arm of the radical right wing. we will not stand for this. we will unite and defeat those who try to divide us. america is a proud land of opportunity for all of those who come here. it is the great nature of arour

nation. the monument was dedicated in 1886. that is the same year that a young girl of arrived in new york with her family from england. they came in a church -- they came in search of a better life and security for their children. the same reason that some many immigrants arrive here each year. .

>> [speaking spanish] >> [speaking spanish]

[speaking spanish] [cheers and applause] [speaking spanish] [cheers and applause]

>> [speaking spanish] thank you. [speaking spanish] now, a recently elected comptroller -- comptroller of new york, doing a great job, john liu. >> look at all of the americans here. this is what america is about. america is a great country -- the greatest in the world. america is great because of our immigrants. we are standing out here today on may today to demand an end, to stop the profiling, and the

anti-immigration rhetoric. [cheers and applause] we need reform now. we need washington to finally recognize what it is that really makes america great. we're fighting for reform. we're fighting for reform. it is clear that we need to make this country even greater. [speaking foreign language] [speaking spanish] [cheers and applause] we fight for immigrants and

america. and we will win! [cheers and applause] >> [speaking spanish] and now, we have a great labor leader from new york, stuart appelbaum. >> thank you. sisters and brothers, we are new york. we are america. this is may day and it is our day. i am stuart appelbaum, president

of the retail wholesale and d epartment store union. i am proud to be here today fighting for good jobs, the respect of the workplace, and for immigrant rights. because the fight for immigrant rights and a fight for workers' rights cannot and should not be decapitated. because of all of you here today -- all of you here today understand that it is when we stand together that we are strong. everyday, i see workers, immigrants. it is the industry might union represents. retell workers in new york --

retail workers in new york. food processing workers in the midwest. we stand up for each other and for what is right. we hope that you who march and rally today will send a very strong message. we stand with each other in solidarity in the fight for all workers to be treated with the respect and dignity they deserve. they are entitled to jobs with fair pay, no matter what country you came from originally. brothers and sisters, no matter what the struggle, whether it is a horrendous, outrageous,

illicit law in arizona, or exportation of workers, or even the living wages for all people in new york -- may we never, ever lose our sense of outrage and injustice around them. whether -- brothers and sisters, [speaking spanish] >> thank you. thank you so much. and now is a brother, a hatian leader -- haitian leader.

[cheers and applause] >> [speaking spanish] i am a member of families for freedom here in new york city. i am also an immigrant. just a few months ago, i was put in jail. that was just before i was to be deported for haiti. even after the earthquake, i still was set to be deported. i have been in this country for 24 years. i am a good person.

why does my family have to be deported? who is going to take care my children? they live here with me. young people have been deported. there are over 500 million u.s. children -- 5 million u.s. children without their fathers and mothers. wives have been separated from their husbands. they're being deported and they leave behind their family. for the past couple of years, we have brothers and sisters being torn apart by immigration raids and deportation. we say enough is enough.

[unintelligible] we're not going back to those days. no one needs to be arrested for the color of their skin. to president obama, we love you, but you lied to us. you promised reform. what have you done? senator schumer, which side are you on? we want real reform, not b order patrols. keeping our families together is what we want. 2 mayor bloomberg -- to mayor bloomberg, new york is not arizona.

family unity, family unity, family unity. [cheers and applause] >> we're going to ask the speakers to limit themselves to one minute. we have to move on. with me now is the president of another group. >> thank you very much. i just want to say to the governor of arizona, you have been in the desert wait too long. you have lost way too much -- she has got to come to this city and see what america really looks like. because this is what america looks like. do you not agree? this is what it is. at the end of the day, my father

has a different name than i do. his name is cuevas and he served this country and our city. i will be damned if some police officer will lock him up some day because he looks differently than i do. that is not going to happen. [cheers and applause] >> [speaking spanish] >> now with us, we have the speaker from the new york state or representatives and assembly, speaker rivera. >> [speaking spanish]

[speaking spanish] martin luther king said a long time ago, "we must act as brothers or hang as fools." we cannot be fools. we cannot be fooled by what is happening in arizona. if we allow arizona to set the standard of how we behave with each other, then we're going to start reporting each other. we're going to make sure that each and every one of us gets

arrested. you know what happens when each of us gets arrested? there is nobody else out there. we will team together on this issue and we will fight. together, we are fighting. we're surrounded by the hall of justice and the immigration department. tomorrow, let's meet in arizona. tomorrow, let's meet in arizona. [speaking spanish] [cheers and applause] >> with us now, we have the president of a local union, our brother, george miranda. [cheers and applause] >> this is what the united states is supposed to look like. look around you. this is what we're fighting for. you reflect what this nation should actually look like.

know that on this day, you demand justice for workers and immigrants across the country. you do so with the backing of tens of thousands. our friendship and our solidarity will be behind this effort every step of the way. we're here today to inform our neighbors, politicians, that we no longer will allow that injustice against our brothers and sisters. the grand canyon state -- arizona -- our brothers and sisters there will be judged by the color of their skin, penalized for their origin, and denied promise of the american dream. we have to nip that in the blood ud now. we cannot let that go on any longer.

arizona has done us a favor, because they will cause the conscious of this country to say we want immigration reform and now. the truth is this is not the first time we have been confronted with a politically- motivated anti- immigration legislation. it is cause for action. politicians are not alone. i would like to tell you a brief story. two years ago, we organized a campaign in long island city to organize workers. many of them remain unorganized today. we gave hundreds of immigrant workers the idea that all men

deserve respect. they will never asked a worker for his or her status. -- ask a worker for his or her status. just as we were making headway, their only crime was working hard for their families and children. they were run out of the factory with just the clothes on their back. it is time that we stand up to the thugs and bigots among us, who would denied the men and women and children the american dream, even the rights that they are owed. it is time that we join together to pool our resources and our passion for justice in the name of these workers. we know that immigrant rights and workers' rights are one and the same.

the ed white collar versus blue- collar, -- be it white-collar versus blue, men against women, we know that when we are divided, our lives cannot improve. working immigrants and their children and grandchildren -- they form the united states into a prosperous and great nation. we will not go back on the gains made by patriots and hard- working families who have struggled in the past. today and from here on out, we will fight to maintain the promise of america and to achieve a perfect union. [speaking spanish] god bless you and god bless the knighted -- the united states of america. >> we have the president of a

federation of labor, john durso. >> good afternoon. you guys have been awfully quiet. are you in the house? i cannot hear you. [cheers and applause] you have heard all the speeches you need to hear, though you have a few more coming. the bottom line is, we need action. we need each and every one of you. get registered to vote. get your people registered to vote. if they do not change the law, both the amount. -- vote them out. [cheers and applause] >> and now, the newest member of the new york state senate. >> brother and sisters, are we

going to take this? >> no! >> law-- that law that was signed into law is unconstitutional. she signed an immigration law that will take away the rights of all of us. i say shame on governor brewer. that is why on wednesday i introduced a resolution to the new york state senate to make sure that we call for a pass for citizenship and comprehensive immigration reform -- a path to citizenship and comprehensive immigration reform. the republicans say they will not vote for it. we need to send a message on tuesday that they need to vote for that resolution. are you with me?

on thursday, what i did was -- the republicans are doing it in arizona. they will try to do it over here. i sent a red card -- a card up -- a pledge card and said, i want you to sign this. i am a candidate for governor. as governor, i will stop any legislation that mirrors anything in arizona. are you with me? next time you see either of those two, ask them if they signed the pledge. if they did not fight with them now, they win. not us, then who? i want to hear everybody here today -- [speaking spanish] >> [chanting in spanish]

[cheers and applause] >> we are very glad to have with us the public advocate for the city of new york, bill de blasio. [cheers and applause] >> brothers and sisters, [speaking spanish] [cheers and applause] the fear that is being bred in arizona and all over the country -- for eight years, george bush tried to take away our constitutional rights. we got rid of him and we're not going to let jan brewer take away our rights. we're going to reestablish what we believe in in this country. we will reform our law once and for all.

thank you. [cheers and applause] >> with us now, we have one of our major allies. he is a great friend to the labor movement. join me in welcoming him. he is the president of the new york city chapter of a union. [cheers and applause] >> fired up? can't take no more. brothers and sisters, i am here representing the"pñtk).s

.

>> we represent the poor. we represent the people who go to work everyday. the depend on us. they live day to day. they work hard. this is an attack, not only on immigrants as a people, but an attack on our class. it is the strongest -- the strongest resistance to any attack on the working class is a

strong labor movement. to all my brothers and sisters in the labor movement, white, black, asian, latino, native american -- we salute you. we work with you. we're proud of you. we know we're going to take back this country from this action. we're going to take back victory. we're going to bring it home for the millions of people that fought for that victory. we need justice, justice, justice. [speaking spanish] [cheers and applause] >> thank you, sister. we are close to the end. we have an assemblyman with us. >> [speaking spanish]

[speaking spanish] [speaking spanish] [cheers and applause] [speaking spanish]

[speaking spanish] [cheers and applause] what i just said is that when the immigrants do not come to this country -- in 1620, they were very well-received by the need is -- the natives. today, we celebrate a traditional turkey dinner. [unintelligible] this is a great country with a great people.

arizona was part of the state of mexico. part of the united states was part of the greater mexico. we are not here today to tell those forces that we want arizona back, that we want california back, that we what texas back, that we want colorado back, that we want florida back. we are calling those forces in this country, as we concentrate on this rally, sending a message to the governor of arizona -- be better tear up that bill, that law that you signed. tear it up. we are not going to stand any more for your nonsense in your

racism. -- and your racism. i have been all -- i have been marching for almost 60 years. when i started marching, i was 18. that was in 1955. they told me -- i did not go. i started marching in 1955. [cheers and applause] [speaking spanish] i was inspired rosa parks, i was inspired by many others. those two jewish americans who joined an african-american youngster to fight injustice. they went down south for you and

me. they marched for us. they marched for us to be able to be registered to vote. they died for the rights of people like me, to register to vote bang. guess what, -- to vote. guess what, i can even be a member of government with my accent. [cheers and applause] i importer regan and i am proud -- i am puerto rican and i am proud. i am mexican and proud. i am colombian and i am proud. we are all part of a great nation of people. this is a great nation of people -- african-american. we all sacrificed so that we can all be free and continue this

struggle. we are part of a group of very powerful people, very strong in numbers. i am proud to be a latino- americano. [cheers and applause] let me add this. we are not free until everyone is free. we are not freed until we are all free -- i went in the year 2002. i worked with activists and we went through the fences. we won. i am proud to have been arrested to get the us navy out of there. but i will be more proud when i

travel to arizona. i am not going to bring no papers with me. i will challenge anyone. [cheers and applause] i will be proud. i will go between mexico and the united states and stand on the wall. martin luther king said, "when there is an unjust law -- like the one in arizona -- we, the people, have a right to civil disobedience." we as a people. i am ready to march to arizona. i will go to jail for the rights of all immigrants in this country. thank you. [cheers and applause] >> we have a couple of folks

left to speak. we're going to close with a prayer after that. we're going to invite our next speakers from the union. [cheers and applause] >> below and happy may day. -- hello and happy may day. today is your day. did not pretend that you're anything other than workers. -- do not pretend that you are anything other than workers. the united states is trying to make workers pay for the crisis. they're trying to make workers pay for their stupid system. their growing to try to pass laws to the by the working class -- they are going to try to pass laws to divide the working-class. we're going to stick together and fight together. what they're trying to do in new york is they are trying to tell you that they do not care about the workers. one way they are trying to tell you that they do not care about

workers is that they are trying to give you less government services, in particular, they are trying to close down the transit system. when they have the last big crisis -- they had the last big crisis in the country, they completely destroyed the system. right now, next friday, the transit authority is set to lay off 500 of our brothers and sisters because they say they do not need us anymore. we need more workers in this country. we need lots of workers in this country, because we have to rebuild america. we not need trillions of dollars given to billionaires so they do not cry if it did not get their bonus. we did not need them to live in mansions. we need a bailout for americans did we need to rebuild america. that means we have to make the

federal government used the money to rebuild the subway, to keep people working, and to stop layoffs. once the begin to start layoffs in the city, this is an attack on all workers. the same people who want to lay us off and give us less of the same people who want to make some of us second-class citizens. it is the same people who run arizona running city hall. that guy is a bearing on their -- that guy is a billionaire. he wants to kick you out of the country. he does not want to give you benefits. when the president of thcame frm london, he was worried about job security. he said he would not come here without job security. we want security in america. we want security on the job. we're going to get at with

solidarity. -- get that with solidarity. [speaking spanish] >> sisters and brothers, we are about to close. we will hear some music. whoa. we're going to end -- we did not start with a prayer, but we're going to end with one. >> good afternoon. it is time to pray. oh god, almighty, died our leaders and ourselves to achieve justice for the workers -- guide our leaders and ourselves to achieve justice for the workers. [speaking foreign language] amen. [cheers and applause] >> good afternoon, friends. [unintelligible]

thank you for participating. we on the blessings -- all need blessings. [unintelligible] we need success. [cheers and applause] >> peace to all of you. i am from the greater coalition of new york. we bring a message of human rights, of dignity, of justice for all workers, for all immigrants, for every human being in this nation in the world. before we close out, we would like to take a moment of silence for the victims who perished on the job -- the miners, the oil workers, the transport w orkers, and all those who died

because of unsafe working conditions. we also want to take a moment of silence for the victims of hate crimes throughout the country. we also remember any victims of wars. let's observe a moment of silence, please. thank you. we go forth from here in peace, for victory and justice. thank you. [cheers and applause] >> [speaking spanish]

♪ >> this one goes to arizona. [speaking spanish] latinos! [cheers and applause] ♪ ♪ [singing in spanish] >>