border protection who were able to ascertain by variety of methods that i'm not going to detail that the suspect had just boarded a plane at jfk and we were able to get him unboarded and under arrest. than depn the yim inal presays i think it was the subject of did we know or understand the plots either way? no. other than evidence he was operating by him self. we all recognize that we live in an environment that the threats against the united states and our way of life are

ever present and ever changing. we had a good session at the white house and with others not just about this but also under hspd 5 which stands for homeland directive five. . . >> i want to ask you what you make of the amendments to law and arizona. you veto this when you were

governor. what effect do you does will have and what effect might it have been changing the national immigration debate? how has this law been viewed in mexico? >> we have great concerns about the law and arizona. we believe it induces racial profiling and should be dropped. it will affect the way migrants live in arizona. we think from issues about human rights, we understand this is a national issue that has to be resolved but we are very concerned because of our emotional links to the ones that may suffer as a result of this law.

we have recognized concentration of president obama and secretary of the public,. -- secretary napolitano. this will enforce other violent crimes. we have concerns about tolerance and other values that are valuable to our society. yes, we believe this will affect mexican nationals, even those who may reside illegally in arizona and we believe we may have many more problems than solutions. this is very important, we believe the immigration issue should be resolved differently.

we understand this is a sovereign decision by the u.s. and we respect that. we want to make the case that mexican immigration, most of it has been good and has tried to adapt in the constructive. this it forms part of american society in an important way. we believe we should find a way in which legality grows the avenues for migration within two economies and countries that have a long history together. the good work of a labor of people should benefit american presidents in the united states. we know this is a people's issue.

trust and confidence has worked much better for both of our country'ies. i really believe that. i worry. i understand. i am a lawyer so i understand that the procedures within -- i am not just a lawyer but a great admirer of the process of law in the united states. i am curiously watching legal procedures to see what will happen with this law within the scope of the american justice system. >> that satisfy your curiosity. >> obviously, the justice department is taking a look at it. quite frankly, i was a little occupied over the weekend and was not following the language changes that were made by the arizona legislature. it is true that when i was

governor, i vetoed similar laws. i did that for a number of reasons. one not mentioned by my friend is that i think it is best for law enforcement. i think it does not allow law- enforcement to set the right priorities depending on what the local needs are within different areas of the state. i do not think that is good. that is one reason why the association of chiefs of police and others should come see me when loss like that are passed. that is why the sheriff of iono county, --pino county has basically said it is not a good law for him or law enforcement. to me at one point. i understand the frustration of arizona.

it remains one of the gateway states into the country for narcotics and contraband and illegal immigration. we have put many resources into arizona over the last 15 months, more men, more technology, more infrastructure, more money for local law enforcement. we obviously need to be looking at what else needs to be done because arizona deserves a border that is safe and secure. it is as safe and secure as it has ever been but it can be more safe and more secure and that is what we are working on. >> i want to ask what are the causes of anxiety on this side about the violence going on in mexico that you have dedicated to stopping and going after the

drug gangs. you noted about one week ago that the violence has largely been among the gangs themselves and has turned onto the public authorities. what can the united states do to help stop this violence and in particular, how big a problem is easy access to guns in the u.s. getting over the mexican border to arm the gags, how big a part of the problem is that? >> that is a very important part of the problem. the u.s. government has more agents trying to work against this. we are working on national programs that help given permission of arms in mexico that is linked to the intelligence systems and the u.s. so they can try to find the root.

this becomes a legal one there is an organization to export weapons to a country where they are not legal. there is a point where that becomes illegal when they are coming from the united states. my government has been working a great deal with the department of justice and homeland security departments to find it much better. run for better -- a much better ground for intelligence. it is hurting us. we believe that violence has been overexposed in mexico, hiding other parts of our nation as a productive country in which we possibly are involved in illegal commerce -- in illegal koppers -- in legal commerce.

this violence hurts us and we will overcome it. we are involved in the very institutional rebuilding in mexico. we are discussing a political reform. we are discussing how to enhance our public security institutions of the local level. we are discussing a possible constitutional reform in order to redistribute authorities in order to be more efficient and enhance our public resources. i think one of the most important things that have to be looked at is that criminal gangs are confronted with mexican authorities in a much more better fashion than before

because they recognize that mexican authorities are involved crushing their activities. they are committed to stopping them and to stop their criminal organizations. that vigor represents the new mexico we are building. there is a national demand for stopping this activity. we have had very important support in congress by the three ;ñmost important political parties. we want to make legal reforms that help the authorities to be more efficient and in the allocation of public resources in order to strengthen public security issues.

one thing that has been very important for us in this process is having the assistance of authorities and are the initiative -- andmarry the initiatives and have the cooperation of nations where we can use their instruments in terms of public safety. the assistance we receive is important as important as the assistance we give the american authorities for them to detect these factors that reside within the u.s. territories. >> 80% of the weapons are coming from the u.s. into mexico. those are most of the assault weapons. what can we do to stop this? can we reinstitute the assault weapons ban? how can we stop exporting the guns that help these criminals?

>> there is probably not much appetite in congress for reinstituting the assault weapons ban. what we have looked at is what can be done on the ground to slow or impede arms trafficking about one year ago, we began inspection of southbound traffic, inspecting all trains, putting k-9 teams doubt the border who are trained to sniff guns as well as bulk cash. they have had some very, very significant seizures in that regard. by the application of law enforcement on target, we have been able to, i think, impede some of the flow of weapons to the south. it is a very simple traffic.

said as much money and guns south -- it is money and guns south, and money ignored. -- and drugs north. we are working on the illegal export of the guns and bulk cash to the south. that is a traffic that has gone on for many years. i actually think we're beginning to show some real signs of progress. we need to keep at it and need to think of other things that we need to do to deal with that north-south traffic. the legal trade is a huge opportunity for us. >> i wanted to include that

commerce is part of the title of this event i wanted to include comments from the two chambers of commerce. one is from san diego. how can business people from both sides of the border assist you and your department in facilitating legitimate trade between our two countries? from the chamber of commerce in mexico, is facilitating trade a priority for a homeland security and what does the mexican government had planned in this regard? they are very specific down there at the chamber in mexico. mention a few concrete steps that have been taken. >> we are making inspections more than ever before. in the beginning, i understand they may implement -- they may help legal commerce.

we are acquiring certain technology that will make the process faster. is important to understand why we are doing so. it is to clearly detect and to stress the importance of legal commerce and both our countries for the best way to keep it that way is to be more efficient in order to fight against illegal activities. we believe that they say border is a border that is efficient for legal commerce. at the same time, it is efficient to prevent the commission of crimes from both sides of the border. in the way we are cooperating, this is being accomplished.

you have to understand that for us, we have committed to fight drug cartels in moscow but the problem is not just that. it is the effect they have on the whole public security issue in mexico. they chased away -- they change the way they operate. they don't commit drugs in the u.s. market. they are paid by their providers with drugs and they started to impact the local market and to sell to local markets and to become involved and other illegal activities. we are committed to make the border say if for both countries. -- safe for both countries. we want to prevent them from damaging the mexican people.

this is not as willing cooperation, for us this is a temporary import -- this is a very important issue. in our political transition, we have not looked on those issues until recently with the seriousness and commitment with which the government house and which has -- with which the government has. we have a will to establish the rule of law in the country. ñrthat will surely happen. we are involved in a very self- destructive process. there are many inner confrontations that explained the violence.

-- explain the violence. this experience helps build a legal framework by which we are gaining in efficiency in order to prevent organized crime. ltd. -- be very clear about it -- to as much as international cooperation. our national interest demands action from the democratic process to be efficient and provide security for the people. what about basic human rights that should prevail is security of the world law and order to provide the guarantee to exercise freedom spa. >> there are exciting initiatives that are under way. there are initiatives to examine and secure carter within the interior of mexico so that all that work does not have to be the work -- does not have to be done at the border.

there are initiatives to expand the land ports to really accommodate the traffic that goes back and forth. for example,the mariposa gate. that is a huge port of entry at nogales, that is being greatly expanded. there is a greater use of technology to move cuts and commerce -- to move goods and commerce and to do more without paper so that things more -- move more slowly back and forth between the two countries. -- more smoothly back and forth between the two countries. it is a whole toolbox of things that we've really focused on for

this 21st century border concept. i don't want to overlook the point that in terms of a new addition to all the things that have been going on in the united states and mexico in terms of cooperation has been the pilot project, as it were, for mexico to install its own customs and the border patrol on that side of the border. toucan if things moving south. just because you get a port of entry in texas or california does not necessarily mean there will not be effective law enforcement on the other side. >> do we have a microphone going around the room? i saw the reporter for "the new york times bo-peep up front here.

-- what actions is mexico taken to contain the undocumented movement of migrants to the u.s.? what educational or social actions ts? how you measure your success in each of these dimensions? >> well, we are acting on the border with much more comprehensive approach to the security issues. we are taking a very important program note in which we want to get with the community to involved in the reconstruction and rebuilding of their own institutions. we believe that the problem of

public safety is different than in other countries. it is a political situation. the way immigration works on the culture of the population demands a different approach. we are trying to fight the way in which criminal organizations of 10 -- they recruit members. we are reinforcing public education, university education, and reinforcing economic activity.

we are sure that not all parts of the border have the violence of the parts have. we believe other parts of the body -- order -- order -- border presents a good situation. we want to rebuild public safety through community activities. we have importuned cooperation with the u.s. agencies to understand and react to the dynamic of criminal activity on both sides of the border. even through painful events like the killing of americans, we have been working unsuccessful

investigations to punish the people involved. we believe there are different conditions in different places. the increasing violence at this moment shows that public institutions -- public security institutions are more efficient and corrupt officials do not have the success they have in the past the separation between public safety institutions and criminals is now more clear than ever. that is important for the mexican rebuilding process. the commitment of public safety officials to prevent an act

against crime is much clearer now. criminal organizations are facing these facts and that is why confrontation of the criminal activities and public officials is increasing. it is said that it is happening in mexico. i think it should have happened long ago but it is happening now because the mexican people have decided to battle and we are committed to the fight. >> before i turn to the audience, i have to ask you about the column in "the post" that we should secure the border. the sheriff says these -- says the border has never been so

secure. in nogales, there has not been a spillover from mexico to the united states. undocumented immigrants have declined sharply over the last decade. would you talk about what your sense is of how this -- of how secure the border is now and to what extent does more in need to be done? how much more needs to be done? >> he was right in the sense that it is more secure now that it ever has been. every congressional benchmarks that has been set, number of border patrol agents, things like that have been deployed. i think quoted the sheriff who has been there for 30 years or more. nonetheless, to give you a sense

of numbers, there is more work to be done. we have had the issues of the murders in juarez. we had the tragic murder of a renter in southern arizona. it was a psycho that -- rancher in southern arizona. it was a cycle that crossed the border. there's always new things to be done when you're talking about border security. in terms of what is on the ground and what has been done, the commitment and the absolute laser-like focus on the border from san diego across to brown's bill -- browns will. -- brown'sville there has never been this kind of focus before. >> where is my colleague?

>> hello and nice to see you. thank you for doing this. we know how busy you are. i want to ask you about the whole enchilada. the comprehensive immigration reform. the president has said that he wants it. the timeline for delivering it seems to keep slipping. i wonder if you think it is realistic that such a policy is realistic when you have arizona passing more restrictive laws and you have polls showing that 51% of americans believe they probably did the right thing. if you think is realistic, how and when? thank you. >> i saw that ball and we can debate polls. i have all seen other pols and these polls have been consistent over years. those polls demonstrate by a two-one margin that americans appreciate and understand the

need for comprehensive immigration reform. they understand that includes enforcement and we need to update and expand some of the enforcement tools we have. it includes some measure of temporary worker flow back and forth. that needs to be adjusted as economic circumstances warrant. they understand that we are not going to deport those already here illegally but that instead, what ought to be done, is that they get right with the law. they should come out of the shadows and register and pay a fine for some surcharge on their taxes and they provide their biometrics so their criminal history can be run. i used to take some of those polled myself when i was running for elective office hours on apparen.

what i just outlined is basically the framework for immigration reform. as a framework that was suggested by senator schumer and senator gramm will have been working on what such a thing would look like in actual legislative language and we have been working with them and their staffs to provide such language. the president has said he would support a bill that included or was designed along the lines of that framework. you have two keep bipartisan leaders of the senate who have indicated that this is what the from work looks like. you have the president of the united states agreeing with that remark. you have polling of the american people that it's been done over years that says that would give us a good, strong, fair

immigration system and we want to work to sustain that and have confidence moving forward that we will not have, in 20 years, another 12 million illegal aliens in the country. what is missing in this is bipartisan everyone on capitol hill recognizes that a bill would not pass without bipartisan support that does not exist right now. how will that be managed? what will happen? i do not know.

i do not know whether there will be an attempt to go ahead and move it before the midterm or shortly thereafter. what i do know is that the president intends to keep working this issue. what i do know is that the president does not give up easily. i think we saw that with health care which took a lot longer than anyone predicted at the outset but nonetheless, it got done. the president is behind it. ultimately, we will get their. >> can i get a microphone up front here? >> how can we have an informed debate in the united states and immigration when you have pointed out that we have made great progress on border security and the number of immigrant flows from mexico to the united states are down when you compare this over the last 20 years?

in terms of the polling data, there is support for legalization under the right circumstances with various conditions being attached to it. at the same time, immigration is such an emotional issue for many americans and the media does not help too much. they sometimes enflame the passions on this issue. how can we elevate blood level of civic discourse on the so we can actually have a debate on the facts of emigration as opposed the to the emotions surrounding it? >> i wish i had a better answer. it is an important issue. it is an important part of our sovereignty. who is allowed and our country? who is allowed to be our citizen? every country has the right to enforce immigration law. mexico enforces immigration law. it should not be a debate about

commitment to enforcement. there is a commitment to enforcement. what we would like to have discussed more is how do you do that in the current circumstances and think about what the immigration rules need to bake. how you -- need to be. we have just been talking about what is safe and secure for people living in the border areas but also facilitate some trade and commerce. the most accounts suggest is to keep harping on the facts. -- the most i can suggest is to keep harping on the facts. i have supervise the prosecution of more emigration cases ban

everybody in this room combined. i know this area very well. i have written that border on a horse. i have wafted and flown over it and driven it. -- i have walked it and flown over it and driven it. we will not fix immigration but only talking. we need to keep working at the border and open up the discussion about all the other issues that immigration entails. those are issues about family unification and issues about labor, labor needs, different kinds of labor needs, how do people on the the rule of law move back. >> many governors and the region have called for sending the national guard to the border. how would mexico do that? >> -- out of mexico view that?

>> this is in our own interests. secondly, the mexican government is involved in our own economic recovery. if we believe we discipline ourselves enough, we may find economic recovery which is good for our nation and will reduce immigration pressures to the united states. we believe that we have to be very discreet in this debate. as a sovereign issue that has to be solved. -- it is a sovereign issue that has to be solved -- resolved. we would like to see that most

of that immigration has been good for america. you are a country that is vocal against racism and a symbol and the world and that matter. we hope you don't get mangled and racial issues as part of this immigration issue. we believe that part of a secure border is defined by the legal framework by which secure border is defined. >> over here? >> secretary gomez, a few days

ago the military was withdrawn and within a matter of days, police recruits were murdered brutally. did you withdraw the armed forces? >> we believe we have to change the model from military patrolling to more police abilities in order to regain control. when the army entered, we were looking at armed corn -- armed convoys of criminal activity walking through juarez without being stopped or control. the army was there in order to prevent that kind of activity. when the problem of public security changed and most of the public security issues happened, we understood that the abilities

needed to prevent control and confront that kind of ability or more links to police skills than military skills. we have not withdrawn the army. we have changed the focus of the leadership of the public security efforts from army to police. there is an important presence of military over there. this will be targeting a way to prevent this kind of convoys of organized crime and to work more with the investigation of gangsters. many of these gangs have links on both sides of the borders. we are accomplishing many important things for the sharing of intelligence.

i think we did the right thing. the confrontation is not going to disappear from one day to another. the problems of the lack of social corporation is important juarez will not have a real solution until you have community participation. we are trying to work on that and we are trying to put our government problems linked with community leadership there in order to restore social cohesion. that is not easy one day to another. there are times in which this path will be painful. >> thank you. secretary gomez, is mexico

winning the war on drugs? can we say that the worst is over or is it worse every day? i say this because when you look at the crime indicators, homicide rate, etc, there's not much time for hope. what is your assessment on that? >> i think the violence issue is important. let's put it in the right perspective. most of the mexican population is not involved in violence or crime. they are involved in trying to get their lives moving on and trying to prosper. that is a part of mexico. ñiin the last administration, we

found more than 250,000 jobs and that implies an important recovery. we're committed to that. we have an unemployment rate that is less than other economies and the world. we got through the crisis last year with less damage to the economy than in other parts of the world. we are committed to living in peace and violence happens because we are a peaceful population. we are not accustomed to that and will not get accustomed to that. we will overcome this because we are committed to build on a prosperous country and a coexistence based on peace. for many years, the security institutions within the democratic context were not truly intended -- duly and

attended -- duly attended by the administration. the cost is worth it and we will prevail, i have no doubt about it. >> one point that needs to be emphasizedñi is that we have a joint interest and the success. in the united states, we need to do more to reduce the demand for drugs which is the foundation for the drugs, mormoney, weapons need.

having a safe and secure mexico trading partner, geographic neighbor is important for the united states from any number of perspectives, from security to justice to commerce,etc. there has not been enough public dialogue about the joint interests that are implicated in what we're talking about. >> secretary napolitano, you talked about work is giving biometric information. that made some headlines a few days ago and you encountered

this as governor of arizona and now as the secretary of online security. how do we reconcile these privacy concerns with documents and the undocumented? >> i don't think there are inconsistent. -- they are inconsistent. having part of a sanction for having come into the country illegally, the requirement that you provide biometrics is part of a reasonable and strong package. after all, we need to know who is in the country. that is part of the reason why pretending that we will support people, that does not make any sense. i reference it in terms of knowing was in the country,

having done their background checks in exchange for the ability to stay in the country. >> we have acquired from the u.s. government some biometrics technology that we are implementing some of the border. we're taking biometrics of all legal immigration coming from the u.s. to mexico we don't have any knowledge that no one has been offended by this. they believe this is a condition to travel to another country. we believe that privacy issues should be well-preserved. the right to identify yourself and to enter through legal proceedings through another

country, i believe it is part of the thing you have to work on in the new international context. migration is part of the economic process that is going on all over the world. we have to find the best way in which it will happen. >> one more in the back. >> how are you? >my question goes to the money going south. neither of the two secretaries have talked about the electronic transfers of money and other routes for money going south. drug cartels are selling drugs in order to get money, of course. i wonder if the upcoming meeting

between our two presidents will involve any additional indicators of what we in the united states are able to do with their mexican partners in limiting the funds going south. >> one thing with money laundering practices, in order to prevent that, the use of cash is induced to get around the controls. we believe we will always get smarter part of the problem with the bulk cash is because of money laundering prevention in both financial systems have made

it more difficult to criminal activity organizations. the problem with the cash process is that it is more difficult to control. it goes through the black markets. we are trying to find ways to measure what the effect on the economy of this illegal activity is. there is a lot of calculations going on. there is important cooperation going on but the problem is much more difficult than tracking down the cash part osh. >> in the upcoming presidential

visit, the agenda is still being constructed. in terms of the items that will be discussed. i think it will be a very robust discussion that touches a number of areas. i do not know whether money transfers per se will be denominated. generically as part of a cluster of issues, that may arise. the easiest thing to do is to find the bulk cash that is secreted in car trunks and hidden compartments and what have you going south. that involves the k-9 teams i discussed and more inspections and better intelligence about who is moving it. these drug cartels are organized crime organizations. a separate product from cash and most times the careers are just couriers and not people making

any operational decisions at all. you have that phenomenon. there are many interesting techniques that have been employed. going after the money it remittances and transfers and having better coordination and control over that such as the western union-style cases. that is one way. one logistical difficulty is the ability to separate legal money from illegal money. when you talk about large amounts of money going back and forth, we talked about legal trade and commerce and families going back and forth legally and separating out what is legal from illegal in terms of stopping the flow is difficult.

we're getting better yield from physical activity because it is informed by intelligence where that money is going. we use different techniques like the western union approach. ministers have also been entering into some discussions about how to monitor and see if there are some indicators there. that is part and parcel of that problem. >> let me ask you a closing question to both of you to is the best of times and the worst of times.

the governments have probably never got along better in terms of corporate on these problems. there is probably more security at the border than there has ever been and yet we have a problem with the drug gangs in mexico and what appears to be higher anxiety in the united states about immigration. how to these two stories coexist? how you bring the good news of the first story to bear on the second story of anxiety and worry? when will we see payoffs from all of these things? >> i think perseverance is very important. there is no alternative to what we are doing which is enforcing block and try to submit criminals to the prosecution and prosecute them in our system of law. we're working on the reef formation of our criminal system

to be more efficient in prosecuting these cases. sometimes we want to do things as fast as we can in order to obtain results but we have to be very solid about this. we are committed for these things to work and we believe that the cycle of violence will decrease at some time in the next few months. the acceleration of the violence is getting slower. we believe we will see diminishing numbers of by the end of this year. this will be a curb in which it

will be held by institutional strength and institutional -- by an institutional process that will make this a stable situation. >> this is a marathon, not a sprint. we know that and we are jointly committed to it. we are determined because the stakes are very high. you said it is the worst of times and the best of times and i would say as well that failure is not an option. we all have a very fundamental stake in this. secondly, from an optics as well as on the ground standpoint, the

establishment of safety will have an enormous impact. progress is being made. that has become a focal point from within mexico and within the united states. thirdly, i think we need to continue from the u.s. side to keep demonstrating progress, progress in terms of removal of criminal aliens, progress in terms of worksite enforcement done the right way, progress in terms of your people trying to cross the border illegally, progress in terms of seizures of drugs and money and arms and

continued to make that case and then continued to make the case, as well. it is a case we know the americans understand that we are a nation of immigrants and law and both of those calls -- those goals need to be in our national debates. >> i want to thank you both. governor rick perry visited with secretary napolitano this week. after the meeting, he said he had a real good feeling. he said that she gets it. if that bipartisanship could be achieved, you could solve all these impossible problems. i want to thank you very much

for joining us. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> in a few moments, your calls and today's headlines on "washington journal." the house is in session at 10:00 eastern with live coverage here on c-span. we will focus on the oil spill and the gulf of mexico with the louisiana congressman. we'll be joined by to book authors. "washington journal" is next. . .