shouldn't they? >> well between them, yeah. and -- which particular combination would you like to pick? it liberal democrats and the lane e party? >> and could you imagine the conservatives. and i could pick you all per meanttations. you need a decisionive g. and the simple fact is we got a country with a broken xi and a country that need healings and revitalized and led in a different way and that can't be done by a cobbleee >> could it be done by a minority conservative administration even? >> well, i think if we have to, then that's what we'll have to do. the -- your forecast which i think are low. and gives us about 305 or there abouts. the simple truth it would be possible to deliver a government on that basis so long as the other parties don't behave

irresponsibly and i think, i think we could -- we could reasonably assume that. yes, i think it could be done from a minority government. i would much prefer frankly a majority one and some of the decisions would be tough indeed and that's has to take. that's hard to take. >> and our reporter graham satchel has -- news of what is going on in south hampton, where government minister john denim is defending his seat, 8.5,000 for labor. a yes, he's got a very comfortable majority here, about 8,400, would take a swing of 10.5% for the tories for him to lose that seat. we have been watching the votes being counted. they have counted them twice and in the officially a recount and the officer in the happy and i think they may have sneaked home but it is chose. about 100, maybe 150 votes maybe less than that. and the results haven't yet bone

offered to the candidates and we play get an official recount here and he was targeted by the conservatives and cameron was here in south hampton and possible decapitation strategy to get rid of sitting ministers, and it looks like john dunn play hold this but it is extraordinary close and his majority of more than 8,000 will be obliterate fd he does. >> this is one of the safest if indeed the safest seat for labor in the southeast, isn't it? we have two seats here. south hampton and we have a sea of blue and yellow around us but in the city center, both mayber held its target seats, 10 -- 199 for the torries, and this south hampton and we don't have a result, but it looks like john denim may have just sneaked home. >> thank you so much. and we'll hear news of that but now we go to wild forest in

worchester, and where this famous candidate, and i say famous, he's one fert future independents and he stuck it out and fighting to save kidman to the hospital. >> 18,793. [cheering] >> harold gordon clifford, british national party, 1,120. knowles, nickal,er -- labour party knt candidate, 3,298. and the independent unity and health concern, 16,150. and -- rent, michael, james,

william, and u.k. independence party, and 1,498. and there were 135 rejected ballot papers. >> this ising a interesting result because this is tale war has been an independent who cut a sway in the house of commons, and was much admired for dealing with the problems of getting him in the hospital. and since 2001 has been defeated now. by the conservatives and -- a swing not particularly meaningful from him to the conservatives of 7.4%. and they mark gagne, the former head fund -- members of the jury fund manager, takes wild forest -- in worchester. >> let's look at the map of the u.k. as it was and then i'll just change it so you could see the new colors and then we could

see the feigns flashing seats where there has been a change of ownership. the interesting thing, we heard that people say there's in uniform swing. we could put up uniform swings and the parties will take seats either side in the most dramatic way and seats are very, very hard to predict. we could be at this for hours without being sure of the actual final destination of this election. so just to take the liberal democrats and conservative swing here nationally and take a look at the swing which is 1.4% to the conservatives since last time and a bit of an increase to the conservatives and nationally against the liberal democrats. if i now color in the seats as they have been wog won and lost, you'll see something quite remarkable here. you could see for a start that the conservatives 1.4% swing and winning down here and winning down here. and montgomery and right down the far end.

and newton abbott, they're winning here, way-out performing the national swing that we got for them. and if it is a 1.5% swing, roughly to the conservatives, how on earth are the liberal democrats taking east born or holding eastly, it is fascinating to see the results coming in but you keep getting a swing figure and then you find a seat miles away from the central pivot that goes exactly the way you don't expect. david? >> thank you so much, jeremy. i said, several hours ago that we were going to put the results on the face of big ben or the tire of big ben. and it is -- it is seven minutes past four in the morning and here is the election results and as seen if i was standing there outside the house of commons and parliament. there's the winning line the white stripe and look how way down we are before we reach the conservatives first on 158th and

labor on 123. and then another long pause. we come to the democrats and they barely show on the bottom of big ben there. it is just as well we went to that because it'll soon be dawn and it won't show, will it? >> and it won't -- it is very smart. i wish there were crowds cheering and the key thing is, are they going to get to the line. and in the tonight they're not going to get to the line and will they get to the line tomorrow. will anybody get 326. doesn't look like it is going to be a hung parliament without shadow of a tout, wouldn't i say? >> i have a list here of torre misses and they were on the list of 116 and there's number 11 and 12 and 29 and 30, and you go on. >> and then they make gains where you wouldn't expect it. >> not many, but three and i got hair wrods and carlike lyle that were way outside and there

aren't quite enough. and the torry leadership i think on the basis of what they're hearing in a moment will feel they have a moral case and their buildings are for a moral case that say cameron should be prime minister and wonder whether cases could be coming in parliament. >> we're past the halfway mark. this is a marathon, 330 have now been declared and 320 to go. and should say 319, bay there's one seat that is not very -- voting for another three weeks because of the death of one of the u.k. candidates in yorkshire. and the cameron car is now on its way to london. and -- he'll go down to the conservative party headquarters. and no doubt, sitting it out there and waiting to see what happens. don't you love pictures of cars? cars going down motor ways. and i remember when in the old days before they used helicopters on these things, he

came down from heighten with wilson in a car down behind him and next morning, i said to him, as you watch the dawn come up, did you think you know? he looked at me and and said bonkers, it is sound asleep and watching the dawn until. >> this is a journey that cameron must have taken many times in his head and when he was doing it, he would hope that he would be celebrating in the baksaying i'm home and dry. and i suspect he's worrying actually now about quite how he does it and the scale of task that will face him if indeed he does move in. >> and vernon knows him. how do you think he'll react, what do you think he's thinking? >> he'll react with great calm. >> it is the great problem. >> how do you know he's calm? >> he's reflective and calm person and i knew him well as an undergraduate of course and i complaint in touch with him since, the problem of running a minority government, in these difficult economic circumstances is of course very great and it is -- it'll test all of his

resources to succeed in that task i think. >> and let's join michael crick who is -- somewhere or other, i can't find him on my pictures here but he's with ed bowls or was with ed bowls, i don't know if he's with him now. michael. yes, david, i'm at the town in the outwood which is the new constituency and bulls is trying to get reelected. it is looking very quiet here. we could head for the dramatic results of the night and the conservatives need a swing of 10.5%. and there's a lot of talk about how this could go, to a recount, if you look at mr. bulls and his entourage, and they're looking nervous and grim, and -- a senior figure i spoke to in the conservative campaign thinks they may have narrowly won here, and but that, there's a wide

expectation that -- that we will probably be going through a recount here. and mr. bulls of course, a close ali of gordon brown and somebody who is likely to be in tight cop tension for the labor leadership should mr. brown step depoup. and of course, if he was to lose the seat, and that would not be possible. >> michael, thank you so much indeed. we'll hang on to this and see what happens. we'll come back and two asian women, one for labor and one for the conservatives and mack mud. >> and i mean, the ladywood and witen. and -- a labor hold that wasn't birmingham. it is fascinating news about -- about ed bulls and i don't know what we maid make of that, we shall see and while we wait for it, let's go to the vote and join an true neil. >> thanks, and the party sitting

out here and the bar is still a there's journalists around as you would expect, let's speak to a couple of them. let's talk about the story that never happened, and the surge and they had the debate and they were picked up by the journalists and they got support of guardian and nourp. what went wrong? >> i think what happened is working class left wing britains have just been terrified by the prospects of a torry government and the foling memory wheelt press and the sun and the sunday times and the telegraph express and the mail all been saying vote cameron. and there are seats, both memories of britain what torii government. >> why didn't they vote? >> you told them to vote dem. >> and you can write editorials and there's a strong body of journalists. if you want to stop the tory's you vote labor. >> they're not doing well.

>> and, possibly one of the worst results in the living memory. even before you were born. >> look any party going to a election under gordon brown and winning a seat is doing well. and far better than expected. gordon brown lost the election and the people have rebutted the dems and yeah, they get to form the government. it is a you'reuous night. the torys are are you luct tant to say they won and the lib dems have been squeezed out. what are we waiting for? it is a dull process. and -- in previous years, you said, we waited up for -- what are we going to say? >> we waited for ed bulls. and we will see. we will see. >> that's why we're still here. >> what is the moral authority by which gordon brown forms a government? >> none. >> but we agree. >> and who does have the moral authority? this is a strangest election i have ever seen.

it is really strange. at 4:00 and no one knows. >> if you were david cameron, would you want to form a minority government, and you have a sovereign debt crisis and the worst cuts in memory. >> why not share the unpopularity and find people to share the blame. i form a coalition with all of them. it is grim. >> and he's coming out for a national government. and there's not a lot. the few we have put them in. >> could you be minister for fun? >> why not? >> let's go and speak to stars of the apprentice. tim campbell and sigh ra camps. >> what do you think of this business, where hundreds of people and maybe thousands wanted to vote in the democracy and they couldn't do it. it is ridiculous, and you hear stories about hackney and people are taking the time and understanding how important it is. particularry with how wide open. we got to do massive investigation of what happened in the system and people have

been fights on the streets and want to escape. >> yes. >> this is what is going on. >> and what do you make of this? >> what is fascinating to me and a lot of people in the country are employed by the public sector and they can't on election night, get people to come in and vote, and that's -- that's just showing that this whole ministry of paper clips and pushing paper around is rids includes. >> you got to vote. >> you got to vote. >> and we all got to vote and let's go back to the studio. david? >> and thank you so much. >> well now, and we have -- we have, i'm just looking at result from south perk shir and labor held on to that and s.m.p. in second place and gordon banks and been -- been there since 2005. and -- and annabel ewing, for the s.m.t. in second place and the olde old seat. and we'll go, with -- and talk

to shaun lloyd and let's first, hear from alex sam mongs with jeremy paxen. >> and alex samen, that was about your top target wasn't it? and why do you fail to take it and made other preeshable inroads. >> good morning, gentlemen. >> i think we could say we fallen a few short, for our target of 20 seats and on the other hand, we have achieved the highest part of the vote in a westminster election and have substantially increased the imagine orts over the seats we held and i know you'll want to know these things as well, gentlemen. >> and i would say this, just wondering about the impact of your advice to english voters to vote lib dem, that worked well too didn't it? >> i didn't actually give that advice and my argument to english voters was it would be a good idea to vote to deny the conservative party an overall majority, since i think a balanced parliament would be a

better prospect than a tory majority. >> the current situation is there's no one with a mandate to be in charge of this country, i mean, is this what you call a good healthy balanced government? i been running the government for the last three years and i play say -- may say so, it is more stable than the majority government has been running and we're seeing a dramatic diff vergeance again between the voting partners and the border and what is lapping in scotland and that question is going to -- to dominate and forced election politician in scotland and because i'm not the conservative party and managed to get an overall majority. >> i don't want to intrude on your natural reticence but i wonder if you want to give advice on the best kind of arrangement. lip dem and labor lib dem and what -- what from your vantage point seems a wise thing to do? >> i'll tell you what you'll do.

we'll see the final results and deploy a voting strand and work substantially increase votes and the best -- interests of the scottish people and if we can we'll keep cards pretty close to our chest. >> and thank you so much. and david. >> and about to have the declaration and the wind in the south and labor held with the majority of 1,500 and the coffins are brought back from afghanistan is in the constituency and they line the coffins they come through. and we'll get this swinden result, and -- apparently we can't hear. i can't imagine why. i hope we were going to see it. instead we have -- the prime minister's many and landing at stan stead. apparently we can go there. as his plane touches down let's

go to swen din south. >> and the member of parliament. and do hereby -- here by give notice and the number of votes at the election is as follows. and robert james buckland, and the conservative party candidate, and 19,and 687. >> and -- and evans independent, 160. and damen john houten, liberal democrats 8,305. and allistair james kirk, the christian party, 176. and -- jennifer ann miles, the greek party, 619. and -- 15 smell grove and the labour party candidate and 16,1

03 about. and robin, and -- >> u.k. dependence party, 2 strgs 029. and the number -- >> and swinden south. and from ann mel grove and 2005, and telephones a parliamentary private sector to gordon brown. so the conservatives now have -- 42 gains so far. nick? >> it is a lot of gains and it is worth remembering this, we spent the whole evening, haven't we? , but it is uncertain but it is worth remembering they're making gains and significant swings to them and they're on a scale that may be in line with or slightly more than margaret thatcher got in 1979 and they started with a vast electoral mountain. and they have not gotten the summit.

>> and the important thing says, they have beaten labor. and in a fistfight between the two of them. if this was, if nothing else existed, they won. >> exactly that. over labor. >> the difficulty they in this situation, and we don't know what their vote share will end up being and it may be about as low as tony blair had in 00 and he was the lowest with the share. emily what do you got for us? >> it is the natural picture leaves you scratching with your head -- your head and the local irs coming through and this will be the election very much fought by constituency and for example red car, and this is where the chorus shut down, did that put people off labor? and the minister general out now and she loost it, look at the swing too and the dems, a really mighty swing to get labor out and peter what do you make of that one? >> this is extraordinary, and it

may be the biggest swing this evening and between the three main parties and -- another -- the rural democrats have been been hoping and they could fake red car and people like me look at the numbers and say you must be joking. seriously, they have done it. >> i'm going to show you another one. ashfield which was the seat of jeff hun and glory who tony blair found to be the favorite tv presenter took that on him but it was a narrow miss. and jeff hun pushed out of the party in trying to unseat gordon brown a few months earlier. >> we look at the swing figure and 17% for liberal democrattings and people, people of my generation remember that ashfield was the famous labor loss in the election in the mid 70's after markham went to brussels to aid jenkins. it looks to me as the people perhaps apply to other places don't like people being foisted

on them as celebrity, or seeing somebody to go off to mick more money elsewhere. you see here, and the democrats and yet, and yet, mayber held rochdale which should be easy and we hear labor play retake chesterfield and it is a very, very patchy night and these local fans are kicking in, like i have never seen in a general election before. and the lib dems, you could imagine arguing even with that huge swing, they're still in second place has been the argument all along. >> thanks emily. straud, conservative gain and labor to conservatives and dowd did you doly south and all over the shop and 9.5%. and the conservative gain bringing ham ghoul and 9.8% and 9.5 and the other ones and colby, and another conservative

gain the steel town and swing, and -- 3.4%. and -- and northampton south, and a swing here, much bigger. and swing of 9.6%. and we're getting news now of another bit of bad news for the liberal democrats losing oxford west and having done very big population there and the conservatives have gained, oxford west and bing from harris. and another blow for them. evan harris is a rather famous m.p. and refused euthanasia and a doctor before, and outspoken representative of the junior b.m.a. and fought very hard for his causes in the house of commons, wasn't popular with his party leadership and was independent and feisty member of parliament and deeply disappointed to lose the seat. we missed join -- john who is with nick cleg and perhaps has news of the liberal democrat

mood or state of mind. and -- >> well, you know, that -- the evan harris will be a very big blow as yet and nick cleg has said nothing. he arrived five minutes ago with his wife and cased the hall and had a very long talk with a returning officer and have to say he's looking his usual relaxed self. i like to think his handlers were as relaxed but they're not. a lot of vitter -- jittery atmosphere around him. he's gone to a private room to take stock of gains a losses and a 210 -- on the tory's list and yet, chris hun does better and we see evan harris is gone and very unearn certain. >> and luton south, and le can't fail to say what happened. >> and the returning officer and an election to return and serve if parliament and the

constituency and -- held on the sixth day of may 2010 do here by give notice that the number of votes recorded for each candidate at said election is as follows. tony blakey. and british national party and 1,299. and slaudry, independent 130. and joe hall, independent 264. >> and -- nigel paul huddle stop, the conservative party candidate, 12,396. [cheering] and hussein, literal -- liberal democrats and 9,500 and 67.

steven phillip lap well independent 84. charles samuel loben. and 975. and -- esther an son, independent, 1,872. steven rose independent 463. and mark sharman, green party, 366. gavin shuker, the labour party candidate, 14,chrg

[unintelligible] 14,725. and frank sweeney, worker's revolutionary party, 75. and the number of ballot papers rejected was as follows, and voting for more candidates than the voter was entitled to, 59 and writing on mark by which the voter could be identified, two and unmarked or wholey void for uncertainty -- >> and this is an attempt to emulate martin bell when he took on neil hamilton who had been asking questions for cash. and failed in those -- and moran moved away and another candidate went in to labor and labor holds luken style and -- and ran jessica, 1,800 votes for the number of votes. and in spite of work thrn on the streets. here's the change. >> no publicity, and what the debate did was sock publicity

away from over ear race and what norman bell got for coverage and he didn't get as much. partly, the woman she was protecting against was no longer there. and swing of 4.6% and from labor to the conservatives. and here's david cameron arriving at his conservative party headquarters and on mill bank. >> and -- and this is the place where -- labor fought their campaign, the famous campaign -- campaign of 1997 was here. and grim building and this is where --, to ory party headquarters would be and steve hilton and others have been planning the election for many months. and he goes in with his wife sam. and -- at half past 4:00 this the morning, he kind of expected this, it is not at all clear

what the conservatives have achieved in this election. they have certainly beaten labor but not clear whether they'll have an overall imagine ordinary or go into negotiation. as he was traveling, and now seats and they're not on his target list were gained. . .

>> did he do that by saying i can do that with a minority, or does he have the baldness -- controversial areas where it will end up. >> normally on election nights, we have an exit poll and then a prediction based on exit polls. tonight, it is so complicated and model that we can't come up with a prediction the number of seats the conservatives, labor, and liberal democrats will have at the end of the night. we can only say that it can be a hung parliament. and that does not get you very far, does it? some much for the exit polls. jeremy? >> we have had that of a [unintelligible] we have had former mp's. you have seen it go down in flames. >> maybe not personally, but it is the kind of anti-politics

thicket. people realize the need politicians. >> they have not done themselves any favors. interestingly, you take the case of all the questions of where exactly she lives, various other people. they have had similar problems. actually, they held it. >> i would have thought that was predictable on the basis of what might have been difficult. the impression i get is that they themselves have not been the big issue, but i have triggered something which is one of the big issues. they have focused the mines -- the local mps. the incumbent has a truly high reputation, the incumbent has

done better than other people. do we have a good mp or don't we? >> jacket will join us, can you hear me? >> i can hear you, absolutely. >> who is running this country, then? >> who is running the country? there is a lot of feedback, but gordon brown as the prime minister. he is going to london and will be holding talks in the morning, consulting his senior colleagues as well. that happened back in 1974. we will see from there. >> apparently, there is some talk that there may be a challenge to gordon brown. have you heard anything about that?

>> absolutely not. gordon brown ran an effective campaign, and his people -- what? hang on a second. think about the difficulties we face. although effective, all parties in equal measure -- if it is impacted on the government of the day more than other parties , one understands why. we had to deal with the difficulties of the economic tsunami that has engulfed the world, including its effect on the united kingdom. people were saying that we were down and out, and that hasn't happened. >> thank you all. >> i have to interrupt you, because of the subject of expenses, we're going to hear the declarations. jackie smith has the seat for the majority, just over 2000.

challenged by the conservatives taking place. here is the result. >> scott, the christian party, 101. and davis, u.k. independent party, 1497. derrick fletcher, 73. and the ingram, a british national party, 1394. nicklaus, liberal democrat, at 7750. [applause] karen, conservative, 19138.

[applause] english democrat, putting england first, 255. jackie smith, labor party, 13, 317. [applause] >> jackie smith, that is a resounding defeat, a big shock for labor. the first woman to be secretary, a hugely embarrassed by claims of putting films on expenses, pornographic films. marked for having a sister's house declared her main home, and all she had there was a single bedroom. she was forced to apologize to the house of commons, trumped by

conservatives. she had a majority of 2000, and the conservatives now have a majority of nearly 6000. a swing from labor to conservatives, this was well within the target range for the tories, a pretty resounding defeat. >> she became synonymous with expenses abuse. she was, in this sense, unlucky. her name came up. >> shahid malik, many boundary changes. >> the green party, 849. michael james, english democrat putting england first, 661. hutchinson, andrew, liberal

democrats, about 1000. ikbail kizhar, independent, 8813. malik, shahid, labor party candidate, 7372. [applause] the conservative party candidate, 18,000 about -- [applause] roberts, rgoer. -- roger. british national party. i do hereby declare that simon is duly elected member of parliament. >> malak defeated here by the t

ories. to the victor, simon reevell. a swing at, 5.9%. let's hear jackie smith from our constituencies speaking about her defeat. -- from her constituency, speaking about her defeat. >> i offer my congratulations, and thank you to the people that helped everything run so smoothly alongside the police and others. i am grateful to my labor team and to my agent. and thank you to my fellow candidates. i am proud that we live in a country where 10 candidates can peacefully contest the election. i am pleased that i have been part of that contest, too. it is a good thing to take part

in an election when you fere you're going to lose as well as when you hope you're going to win. it is an immense honor to have served the people of the old constituency for the last 13 years. i am obviously sad that has come to an end tonight, but i hope that the work i have been able to do alongside a labour government, stand up for local families and older people, to get involved with local groups and the community, to support local schools and children's centers, and those who want to serve the public right across the constituency, to help businesses and campaigns for jobs and fairness, in good stead for what i think will be tough times to come. and finally, and all this work, i have had the unveiling support of my constituency staff.

people often express their thanks to mark, betty, and richard. so do i.. >> what do you make of her defeat? personality problems, expenses? >> i am sure there is. the tories were expected to get a seat like this. the publicity she had was gross and, -- bruce m. -- gruesome. it felt very badly when those expenses headlines came in. >> i have heard -- we're going to have the official results. we're going to go to the count, but i don't know if we can go to the account. apparently it hasn't quite

happened. >> my understanding is that she has held. >> a number of ministers, and no big names. if it were to go to alistair darling, there would of performed better than anywhere else in the uk. he did very well in his constituency. >> a reminder of who has gone from labor. jackie smith, shahid malik, mike o'brien who used to be the foreign minister, bill rammell. lib democrat harris, and lembit optek. let's go to the declaration.

an >> of the conservative party, 18,000 about -- [cheering] [applause] the united kingdom independence party, 1221. gibson ian, british national party, 1549. labor party, 17,215. [cheers and applause]

liberal democrat, 10,224. [applause] i hereby declare that stewart andrew has been duly elected to serve as a member of parliament for the constituency. >> conservatives gain from labor, determined to show that the vote has fallen consistently since 1987. stewart andrew takes it from that jamie. the tories wanted to take, and their target. let's join john simpson. john?

>> the prime minister's plane has just arrived, and he is heading to central london. he talked to the assembled journalists on the plane a little bit, and seemed quite upbeat. looking quite -- relatively speaking, relaxed, and just kind of concentrated on the idea, he says, that it is his duty as prime minister to establish a stable, strong, and principal government. and a lot of what he was saying to us was clearly intended to be passed on as fast as possible to the liberal democrats. he says that he was quite enthusiastic still about the whole idea of re-examining the way in which britons electoral system works. i asked him if he wasn't a bit

disappointed by the unexpectedly poor showing, or less effective showing for the liberal democrats compared to what everybody seemed to think what happened, and he denied it. not an easy question-answer, but he denied it. but he laid out as other members of his government are, to the liberal democrats to see what happens. again and again, the constant refrain of just wait and see, it will be a long process. it is not going to be a quick thing. he says he has done better than people were betting some months ago, a year ago. conservatives have done less well than other people perhaps expected. >> from what you say, he clearly

anticipates remaining the prime minister. >> i think that is what he wants you and me to say and broadcast, to be honest. i don't think it necessarily is the case. i think that they want to put a brave face on it, they don't want to be seen as losers, that is the absolute key thing. any suggestion of that, they were anxious to brush it away. they want to present themselves as the government in being, and it is up to them constitutionally to make sure that the business of government goes on. >> to be plausible, and forming some sort of coalition, he would have to show gordon brown at the end of this evening that combined, they can get over a majority of the commons, or

close to it. in other words, they would have to show that this is a more stable government than the one that david cameron has declared. at another given the poor liberal democrats showing that they can do that. have you seen what they could do? you have got a prediction? >> no, we do not. >> quite right. anyway, the prime minister is on his way down there. i think we should hear from the home of the largest fish and chips shop in the world, the original. >> at the place that also -- this tory gained them quite significantly, and the labour share has fallen. the conservative swing is exactly same one that we showed you in carlisle, just a while

ago. not only is he a counselor, he as a fund-raiser. i think it could be a local or personal vogue here. >> if i could pick up one day in their were saying just now, will the labor and liberal democrats out of the conservatives? we don't know. 420 results have come in, there are some parts of the country that were way behind. london. only 10 dozen are so have come in. a late -- a whole bunch of marshalls, we don't know how they will behave. the answer that question will tell us whether the conservatives fall short or the conservatives just get past labor and did the moral -- the liberal democrats. we will be able to answer the

conundrum about whether the conservatives will come out on top. >> of the london conundrum. we're going into production mode. we'll show you some of the london seats and what might be about to happen there. a huge caveat, as always. >> we're going to west york shire, getting the declaration from there. >> for each candidate, [unintelligible] >> 18,365. [applause] a beverly crest, 3535.

calvert, and he james, a conservative party, 17,264. [applause] daniel dave, the united independence party, 1906. and james, liberal democrats, 8186. [applause] and i hereby declare that ed bowles is elected. >> de tories have been denied, ed balls way down. let's hear what he has to say.

>> let me start by thanking the officer, the police, and everyone for doing a great job tonight. in the glare of tv cameras. i am sorry that the cameras did not quite get the moment they were looking for, although i have to say it was quite close. i like to pay particular tribute to the conservative candidate antony calvert, he fought it very straight, decent, and honest campaign. he focused on local issues. [applause] and he said that he wanted to put this fantastic new constituency on the map for the national media, and he certainly succeeded in doing that. i would also like to thank my agent, and all the brilliant teams that volunteered that we have looking -- working for us. i like to thank the thousands of

people will and members that all worked, given themselves so that we could fight this campaign over the last few weeks. they have been brilliant. and above all, i would like to thank the collected -- and the voters of the constituency. they decided we would put public jobs before tax cuts for millionaires -- [applause] >> ed balls [talking over each other] a majority of 3000. >> steven michael emmons, 1,145.

leanoard -- leonard heather, 6, 097. anthony daniel, 10,902. adrian ramsey, 7,095. simon james wright, 13,960. the total number -- [cheers and applause] the total -- number -- the total number of ballot papers rejected was 70, the total number of votes cast was 14,000 -- and 40,000. james wright is duly elected. >> at the liberal democrat takes south from labor, a

longstanding opponent of gordon brown. saying that he should go, the party should change. the education secretary is out, and simon right is in. this is a change from the last election, labor down 9 and liberal democrats down one percentage point. the greens go up 8, so labor has lost without the huge swing from labor to the demurral -- liberal democrats. >> to discuss the future of the labor party, an enemy -- ed balls keeps his seat. perhaps sooner and rather than later, charles is out. it he will be ruling the day, and he will no doubt plan gordon brown for the fact that he has

lost his open sea. >> before the sun comes up, we will take a look at the tower of big ben, 4 minutes until 5:00 in the morning. i think projection will still cut through the dawn, the conservatives on the left. labor on 165. the liberal democrats 35. we're looking at the house of commons, and that is where all of these discussions are going to be taking place. about how the government of the country is carried on, a time of what you could call economic crisis. the markets will open tomorrow, and this will have to be sorted out. it has to be sorted out soon, because the country can't afford to not have a government for a weaker more while people dither around and talk to each other.

one rather emasculated by the results until a better deal was arranged. >> at this time of the morning, i would expect to be telling you who is going to be prime minister. over 2/3 of the seats have been declared, and possible to say who is going to be prime minister. we are heading for a hung parliament. it is not clear what form it will take. the conservatives are likely to get the most seats, but not on course to get an outright majority. it may be some time before we know which party or parties will take overall control. it may all hang on a handful of seats. this is the current state of the party. the conservatives there, 223 seats. labor 166. the liberal dems, 35. other parties on to 26. there have been significant

political scouts, the labor home secretary charles clark lost in the south, liberals -- and to liberal democrats by 310 votes. another former home secretary, jackie smith after expenses scandal has lost her seat to the conservatives by a landslide, a significant amount. nearly 6000 votes. they have lost oxford west to the conservatives, and for the lib dems, on the right there. [unintelligible] his former engagement to one of the -- and democratic union party has lost their seat in east belfast in northern ireland. the minister has held the seat since 1979 and was ousted by candidate from the -- this surrounded mr. robinson and his

wife earlier this year there were denied a chance to vote. had it was right up to the 10:00 p.m. deadline as officials struggled to cope with the turnout. people were turned away in sheffield, manchester, and in london. we will bring you all of the results through the morning here in the studio, but you can also follow live updates from the constituency to the final results when we eventually get it online at bbc.co.uk/election. it is 1 minute to 5:00 a.m.. we have no idea who the prime minister will be and we are heading for a hung parliament. >> it was a cd conservatives might have thought to take and retained by labor in north central london. we now go to the number of fascinating guests, all for this

evening, he has a particularly special guest with him now. they have not given an interview before in which he has wielded great influence. andrew? >> we're going to be joined by the deputy chairman, michael ashcroft, a major fund-raiser and a major supplier of funds to the conservative party. what has gone wrong? >> from the time that the conservatives were ahead, we have the debates. it is quite obviously turned everything topsy-turvy, and a more natural assumption before changed the whole playing field. . .

>> we have had some very significant swings in some of the marginal and some not. some of the outer margin as we had had swings closer to double percentages. it is a mixed bag right the way across. >> was a 9-by the controversy? >> i am sure it will continue.

it is probably a little bit academic. >> it is a view that i tip. sanders was a personal matter how becomes irrelevant with the new law. if you wish to remain in the lords, you are being taxed on worldwide income. int. >>mains a moot poun your party was to change the laws that if you are you can sit in the house of lords. are you good to sit in the lords of state. >> we become a -- >> are you

joining britain again? >> i think anything negative causes something occurs. we ran out as time. we that in the of it names a tony blair, etc. and my name and a fictitious name. >> if you stay in the lords, which state and the conservatives? i said i'm going to step down from the party. >> wide to give all this money to the conservative party?

>> i think it was the challenge of the marginal seats. but that is where the resource should be in any election. they fine-tuned it over many years. they identified the target voters. >> to do you think there was a stage when they thought you are doing the tax system and you are becoming a non dongle? >> there is no way. >> when we wake up, will there

be a conservative government? >> that the tomorrow morning, it depends on the final result. >> it appears like the tories a land over 300 seats. people have to sit and wait for the. >> i am sure there will be happy to learn that you'll be seeing of attacks in britain now. >> there will be able to go to sit on friday. i'm not sure we will be able to go to sleep at all. what do you think? >> it is a phenomenal swing.

we know the conservatives were targeting this very strongly. david cameron was up there himself. it is a kind of swing they would have loved to see. this seat required tim 0.5%. >> the average is about 7.5%. britain is a 5.5%. it was a 2% bonus swing. that will have made the difference between the conservatives having the chance of forming a government and informing well short. i'm not sure ascots money was bet they spend. >> the conservatives wanted it.

he was a staunch critic of the government. i'm just calling to take it. >> hazel. the labour party candidates. , 16,016 votes. carver, independent, 384. david henry, 730. stephen morris, an english democrats, 621. benjamin o'dwyer, jk independent, 1084. norman cohen, a liberal

democrat, 10,930. matthew joseph, conservative party candidates, 8497. tina wingfield, dish national, 2006 hundred 32. the total number of votes cast were 41,700. >> hazel embroiled in expensive scandal. not a very convincing performance some thought. she left government before the local elections, rocking the boat. she went back and said she would take it.

she is holding it. liberal democrats are in second place there. they do not even have 5725. let's rejoin jimmy. >> we are joined by the cabinet minister who has just hung onto his seat. how were you reading the situation now? who is going to be governing this country? >> i have been here. -- in this aircraft hangar for the last hour or so with no mobile phone coverage. i'm slightly out of touch. all i know is i won my seat. >> congratulations.

have you spoken to gordon brown in the last two or three hours? >> i spoke to him early on. i congratulated him on his majority. it is larger than mine. he did not have all the millions in his seat. >> what did he tell you what's the strategy now? >> i think it has been a very uncertain night. so many results have gone in different directions. i think he is waiting to see how things unfolded as the results came in. he is not prejudging anything. >> what has been revised to him? i would say we need to see the full results first. the prime minister will see it

as his prerogative. pities the conservatives talk a figure like 300 seats, there would be entitled to have a crack at government, wouldn't they? >> that is that our competition. the first question is can the prime minister form a government. gordon brown is the prime minister. i do not know what the balance of seats is going to be. i think we have to wait and see. >> it is about the way our country is governed. we had an election to the voters. we are still finding out what the votes actually meant to individuals. the question will be, can the prime minister form a government over the course of the next hours.

you understand from my point of view, i do not know what has happened in the last couple of hours. >> let me tell gordon brown has taken your party down to defeat. do not have the largest number of seats. >> the issue a few months ago was whether it david cameron would get the majority. i do not know whether he is or not. it is not as clear-cut as he hoped it would be. >> the party that is the largest number of seats has a crack of forming a government. >> that is the way our system works. the less hundred and years, it does not work that way. >> thank you proporti. there were recount.

>> they declare that the b votes were as follows. caroline, conservative party, 15,620. [cheeres] fernandez, christian party, went under 27 . liberal democrat, 6387. trevor blade, a british national party, 1196 burda simpson, green party, 469. labour party, 16,890.

[cheers] >> and a lot of cheers. they held on for the 39th target. under 1% swing. he made in some quite unpopular with the labour party. he said it should of had a referendum on it. >> it shows an extraordinary success in that campaign. there is another on that list of seats where they have not gotten what they need for the majority.

each time, we get two or three. then they get when they do not expect. it is painfully close by my guests to being able to form a minority government. >> what do you call painfully close? >> does he need 300? does he need just vote? the set to go to scottish nationalists? -- does he have to go over to scottish nationalists? >> he would want to know in advance that people would abstain to let him get his way. that would result of negotiations. >> they will be pleased about

that. we are seeing some extraordinary results. they are resisting the swing to the conservatives. oxford west and abby is in another suite. we see a very heavy swing for the liberal democrats. they lost oxford west. the conservatives won cornwell celt east. that is very important. they've been running it since 1992. all of them worere liberal democrats. it is getting more difficult to draw a clear pattern.

>> if you told the conservatives at the beginning of the night when and have gotten [unintelligible] i think there would have gotten alarms. she may have upset the labour party, but possibly she endeared herself to our own constituents. something as anas independent with in the labour party. the b &p and rusted year before. what do you reading into this? >> it is a university seat. in 2005, labour suffered badly in students seeks because the tuition fees and in muslim seat with a high muslim electorate because of the iraq war.

in terms of the big picture, tracking for somewhere around 310 labour. each seeks the tories and failed to take may give one party or the other the bed as to which is a larger block. >> this was a late target. let's see. >> jackie, a trade unionist, 741. mccartney, a conservative, 20,440. [cheers] robert, u.k. independent, 1163.

turner, liberal democrat, 15,603. i do hereby declared jason mccartney as member ofag parliament. >> it brings jason mccartney into the seat in colne valley. >> there we are. they are just reminded the conservatives are of 66. the liberal democrats overall are down five. >> maybe we can spot a patent

for you. they have nearly 500 seats. lots and lots of seeds here. i will bring it up. we see conservative labor see ats. we can see the actual swing. there it is. the election began with an assessment of a bigger swings. we beginning to see the pattern here. the pivot point remains at 6.9%. before 6.9, they have taken it

all the way over there. the place to focus is here. just before the 6.9%. it is a 5.5%. it the swing one was needed for the overall majority. you will see labour managing to defend themselves. that could be the conservative problem. >> i think there is one other thing we should look at. we did not have 480 seats in. that is the change in the number of votes. it is the overall change in the vote. during the discussion about what this election would mean if it was time, attention was focused on how many people voted. at the moment, there are running

up 4%. labor is running down 6.6%. there is a 2 million vote gap. that is in view of the top of the liberal democrats. they are only up 1%. they are not even reaching 5 million at the moment. the conservatives are clearly in the lead. liberal democrat a million below that. it is dawn here in central london. gordon brown is approaching with a helicopter following him. i am not precisely sure where he is going. he may be going to labour party

headquarters. we will keep an eye on that. if we do see him, he said it has been a long night. we all know that. >> jeremy. >> hazel, can you hear me? >> p.s. i can. >> he did not seem to be much affected by your embarrassment. >> i'm excited they have reelected me as a member of parliament. i had jobs, economy, health service at the campaign. >> wide enough the fact that

your embarrassment and the bears and of others over what they were doing to their expenses affect how people voted? >> in my case, i have been it for a long time. it is where i live. they know me better than anybody else. they know what i have tried to achieve. you waving aighed check around? >> people have voted on this quite rightly. i had a huge respect for the electorate. they want a member of parliament that will have a strong voice for them and make sure that we work for them. >> kemi look at the question of what moral legitimacy [unintelligible] we now have learned that so far

2 million fewer people have voted for your party and voted for the conservatives. >> these discussions -- i've not seen many of the national results. i think they are buried in the way they are coming through. there is no one singular pattern. it has to be when all the results are in m.a.c. what the resolution is. >> we have a declaration coming up any moment now in a saucer for labour is the defending. >> conservative party candidates, 17,200 is 51. [cheers]

brenam, independent, 135. vanessa, u.k. independent, 551. marlene, liberal democrat, 7557. miles, green party, 696. james, british nationals, 432. labourter, labo l

party, 20,000 -- [cheers] labour >> the attempt to take it was halfway up. >> 20,810. i declare that annie slaughter is duly elected to serve. >> they had great hopes of taking hammersmith. >> they were extremely ed.appointmen he is a working-class background. they were so keen on them.

they will be very upset. >> the prime minister will have heard this on the news as he goes down to the streets of westminster. in london, the labour has done better than might have been expected . >> fish as a couple of minutes away from victoria, i think. -- he is just a couple of minutes away from victoria, i think. he will be thinking, i am not out of this yet. >> his greeted there by labour party workers. harriet is there. lord mendelssohn is there somewhere.

applause from the minister. party headquarters have been staying up all night. the jet mendelssohn was dancing his dancing. >> this is where the experts will be. it is worth remembering, he is doing worse than michael foot in 1983. it is 28.1 at the moment. >> there is a lot to talk about illegitimacy.

the conservatives have around 37% of the vote. they are lucky because the labour government in 2005 was elected at 36% of the vote. what does it have to be with majority share in the democracy if your party's governing that have 2/3 of the votes? the answer seems to me to have a referendum on whether they want to continue the election system give them governments that give them 40% of the vote. >> there it is on the wall. it is up 4%. labour on 28. liberal democrats 39. family is going to take this

through the list. >> a lot of controversy. david cameron is trying to change the face of the modern conservative party. it is interesting to see mixed results along those lines. these are three spots where they have failed to make those breakthroughs. he called himself the black farmer. he makes sausages and of that name. he failed to get this new seat for the conservatives to do the same picture huge assault sean daly -- conservatives. you just saw that same picture with shaun bailey. joanne cash got into a battle with their own party issue is the right candidates here. we have seen some successes.

there is a sense that people do like these kinds of things. >> i think david cameron will be disappointed. wanted to get more women on the conservative benches. two days ago, i would have predicted there would be more active minorities than labour. that is not likely. some of these candidates the bill to make it. >-- have failed to make it. >> i was told you are going to do a prediction.

>> [inaudible] here they come. we started the night with a prediction inside the house of commons on our exit poll. now hasn't been based on all of these results. we are going on 400 and more. the winning margin has more than half. this election has been so extraordinary. we got results in here and in part of a projection. we may need to adjust this. have a look how far short they are. we have 306 seats. this could change. let's have a look at labour and

the liberal democrats. they were on 349 of the last election. they are down to 21 and 62 the lib dems has not been the best night. it is down from 62 to 55. the question is whether the 306 goes up or what did the conservatives to get the union. we could live over and see whether the labor party could get together with a lib democrats. yet 27 others was scottish and welsh nationalists. they are still short. over 300 has been talked about. you raise a lot of issues which

we will talk about. we will go to redding west and the picture. --in buckshire. >> davie, liberal democrat, at 9546. [cheers] alexander, independent, 1508. labour party, 14,500. [cheers] conservative party, 20,553.

[cheers] thomas howard, a common sense, 852 . green party, 582. >> a conservative victory and quite a handsome one. he takes the seat. the conservatives moved in. we will have the exact figures in just a moment.

>> i want to thank you for doing such a fantastic job. >> the labour majority is just under 5000. the majority is 6000 in the riding west. it had a 12% swing. this kind of thing would have got the tories at home with the problem at all. you were picking up on what u.s. saying. the thought arises that nobody here could put together a government that easily. without may be some really major concessions being made. >> our predictions would only be run by a handful of seats.

that would just put david cameron into the source territory. if he could persuade the nationalists to vote with them on occasions. he could actually form a government. if they go on the other direction, it is plausible that gordon brown could form a coalition. it is that tight and that close. you now see a battle. gordon brown will say he will have what is constitutionally right in trying to form a stable government. this may take many days. we still have a government in there. they are allowed to carry out their duties. >> the liberal democrats have been arguing for representation as for as long as you and i have

been alive. the objection is that it always ends of a porsche training. -- horse trading. theirs is argument of who should be in office and to -- there is always the argument of who should be in office and who should not. >> british politics went through this when they labour came up in the 1920's and challenge the liberal democrat. there is a promise there of electoral reform. it never happened. >> absolutely right. that is how it works when you have just two major parties. we have three parties come it does not work. a gives you very erratic results. >> you are going to lead to some horse trading compromise.

>> there is actual representation. it is about four times as many. it is not giving you a party that can get more than 37% of the votes. we could have a government on less than 2/5 of the total votes. >> [unintelligible] labour.e saying that's so too the conservatives. we are testing them on about 37%. margaret thatcher's figures were 33 and 34. they claim the legitimacies.

>> he got the same share of the votes. >> which he lost. >> all three parties have reasons to be disappointed with this elections. >> none of them got the sort of result they would have wanted. the liberal democrats have not made a breakthrough. in the side the conservatives may not have secured an overall majority. >> here is the results from waverly, -- waveney a 6.8% from labor to conservatives.

>> that is the 117th seed, the ones of the conservatives need for the overall majority. they have not won a lot of seats. it should have been easy. on my list, 170. >> it is at the same as our list. but rejoined jeremy. >> i have with me now the transport minister in the last government. i suppose as a formal you are you are involved. >> he cannot be sure. the british people have decided not to give the majority to any party. that being the case, we have a duty to engage in a way that

does produce a strong and principal of government. we will be in discussion with other parties. gordon brown said the idea was to create a strong, stable, a principal government. we should not prejudge. the talks will need to start soon. >> have a yardy started? >> we are still waiting for the final results. there are no negotiations here as far as you know. >> not until we get a final vote. >> constitutionally, gordon brown is the prime minister. >> the reality is gordon brown has a great career. he does not have a mandate. this is the first time he is gotten the country of prime minister papa.

it is very clear that the country is ready for change. i think there are still 150 seats left to come in. alibied to see what boats come in. -- i would like to see what boats come in. it is clear that gordon brown has received [unintelligible] in the conservative party gained more seats in the general election than they have since 1931. we are going for a historic low. we have gained a huge swing. we failed. we still have 150 more to go. >> we had opinion polls a year ago. we always said this election will be a challenge fr.

>> we have been saying this for some time. it is to achieve a majority of one requires is strictly an enormous swing. >> what would you demand if you are leading the lib dem negotiating team? >> i think he will look at the results and deliver as best he can what the british public wants. he will try to use this. >> it'll be one hell of a thing. -- one hell of a pounding. potentially, you are the king. >> it is not a pounding. our vote has gone up. >> it is hardly whatever you said you are going to get.

let's leave that aside. >> the public will look for a firm government. >> >> bill said it is about cleaning up politics. you try to put those issues there. >> nobody aragonese opposes that there majority. arrogantly supposes they have the majority. it is the way we run the country. >> there is lots to get in before 6:00 a.m.. >> thank you very much. we have the results from southwest london.

the majority was struck doesn't 430. the turnout was 75%. their high turnout in the area of london. liberal democrats were just under 1%. vince cablewho was sainted for having spotted the economic crisis coming was speaking. let's hear what he has to say. >> thank you very much could i just first of all thank the staff in the police. we normally say this out of politeness. when you are about the chaos, it

is a real achievement. i would like to a thank my opponent. fe has several good debates. they were replicated on the national level. i would like to do thank my team. and organize free my campaigns here with success. i like to think the pickle -- thank the people of twickenham. what really matters is the constituency that we serve. as a forward to continuing as a constituency. the results are all over the place. it seems unlikely will know the outcome until the morning.

i thank you very much. i've th ank my opponent's. >> somebody might be included with the job. >> we have tended to think of it as policy negotiations to do we could be talking about jobs in government. he could get an important job. but see it the greens have one. we have been waiting a long time for this one. we can go down to frighten and see if caroling green said issue is going to do.

caroline, green, 16,230. [cheers] liberal democrats, 7451. labour party, 14,956. conservative party, 12,000 -- [cheers]

>> the green has taken brighton pavilion. they are trying to get the bolger's a green area. bright and has a very green country. -- brighton has a very green country. this is the first seat that the greens have one. >> the people of brighton have made history. thank you so much for having stayed in the green party. i will do my very best.

thank to so many people. -- to other candidates, my amazing team. >> i could hear that perfectly well, but apparently you at home could not. it is a big moment for the greens. they have taken it. >> a new party joins the national party. other parties in ireland in addition to the big three in westminster there has been a hung parliament. votes may hang on one or more votes. they have relatively low representation.

there is negotiation over the scottish budget. they had to make concessions. >> she will be hoping for that. >> with a declaration coming, another late entry. it sounds as if he has taken it. it looks as though he has taken it. he is an environmental campaigner. liberal democrats, 25,300. [cheeres]

green party, 570 to produ. labour, it 2009 hundred 79. -- 5279. >> was evident that the figures. conservatives gained from susan kramer. she is been there since 2005. look at the turnout, 77% predict a change is since the election in 2005. -- 77%. a change since the election in

2005. a swing from liberal democrats to the conservatives by seven percentage points. >> who would have expected it? they have underperformed. there lots of predictions that goldsmith would not get that seat. it is a pretty substantial swing. the liberals had five seats. all of them were marginal. this is the only one the conservatives have been able to take. no would have been able to predict this.

one of the smaller parties has made an impact. many people would vote for the green did they were on the left. the problem is that they made no impact on the election at all. we saw dr. taylor losing it. >> it is quite difficult to accept the number of green of votes. 200,000 green votes overall in the country. there you are . >> as a reminder, you'd probably see more of them. >> it is coming up to four minutes to six to do with a boy to stay on the air for a moment.

-- four minutes until 6:00. we are going to say on the air for a moment. >> we are joined from oxford. he lost his seat. it has been a pretty disastrous night for the lib dems. >> there have been some big gains and losses. our boat was up. -- vote was up. it shows how crazy the electoral system is. i lost by 176 votes. it is a marginal seat. a week ago, we were expecting it to be the marginal. >> i'm going to interrupt you. there is a declaration from the

party. >> liberal democrat, at 3719. independent, 77. william hill party, 82. green party, 317. british national party, 6620. christian party, 482. labour party, at 24,000 -- [cheers] i will repeat the figure, 24,628. independent party, 1300.

conservative party, 8073. restoration party, 65. >> this is a very to begin a result. it has hugely increase the majority of labour. it has gone up by 6000 votes. no wonder she is pleased. a majority of 16,500. the turnout has gone up to 61%. that represents a swing.

that is from labor to conservatives. it is a big result labour for their. . .

we are here to provide an update on the latest information concerning the bp oil spill and the court and is steps they have taken to minimize its effect.

the administration has been on the ground bleeding accord in a proactive response is the first day, continuously anticipating and planning are worst-case scenario. this is the second time in two weeks we have examined the response of this. the president was here on sunday to inspect audio -- the efforts himself through the staging area. this underscores i believe the administration all hands on deck response to this unique and still-evolving and potentially unprecedented disaster. we have been in constant contact with state and local leaders.

we greatly appreciate and need their partnership. we have deployed booms to protect shoreline and wildlife and a contending it will with dispersants. ts are overseeing bp, the efforts to plug the leaks in its second rig. let me give you an idea of the scale of the response now. more than 10,000 personnel are currently in the gulf region of responding in order to protect the shoreline and wildlife. nearly 270 vessels are responding on the site of this bill. these include skimmers, tugs, barges, and recovery assets to assist in containment and clean- up efforts. this is in addition to dozens of aircraft remotely operated vehicles, and several offshore mobile drilling units. over 180,000 feet of protective

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this bill. they are required to pay for the cost of cleanup. impacted individuals can make claim to bp. call 1-800-440-08580--sorry, let me read this. if you want to file a claim against bp for the damages you are experiencing, because of this bill, you should call 1- 800-440-0858 to file a claim today. we're facing an evolving situation. the possibility remains that the bp oil spill could turn into an unprecedented and farming bill disaster. the possibility remains that it

will be somewhat less. as governor barbour said, we don't want to be like pollyanna, we don't want to unnecessarily predict armageddon, but we want to be prepared in advance for any eventuality and we want to make sure that the federal government, state, local volunteer efforts are closely linked and coordinated and that in the end, bp pays for the cost of this spill and cleans it up. thank you very much for the hospitality and bring us here. i have worked with her as a governor since she was governor of arizona and she did a

fantastic job, doing a good job of coordinating the all hands on approach to this disaster. i want to let you know that the department of commerce, through our scientists and personnel at noaa. were on the scene within hours of the explosion on the rig and have been working with the coast guard ever since. we have people deployed from around the country, 24/7 on this. we have and will response command center, was sometimes called a war room that focuses on worst-case scenarios. there were deployed immediately upon explosion on the oil rig. they have been providing much of the analysis and worked advising the federal agencies and state agencies, local governments as well as the rest of those involved.

for the tracking of the oil spill, weather forecasting, forecasting the current. we announced a closure on sunday of affected parts of the gulf to send a signal that seafood that is in fact harvested from the gulf is actually safe. that the seafood that is being harvested now and you find on the stores, eating in restaurants is indeed safe. we work with the fishing industry and the local resource managers to determine which areas should be closed and which areas could remain open. it would began reaching out to local officials in mississippi. we're beginning the assessment

of the economic impact from this spill. we have mobilized all of these resources because we understand a lot of livelihoods are on the line. also, seafood processors, truck drivers, the waiters and restaurants and the people who work in hotels. we recognize that the tourism industry may be affected. we want to make sure that anyone and everyone whose livelihood is impacted by this oil spill is properly compensated and bp is the ultimate responsible party. we understand at the department of commerce that helping the people of the gulf communities is the job i've ever responsive and responsible federal government. even as we take the steps, we do so with the understanding that bp is ultimately responsible for making the entire region whole

again. it is our promise at the federal government to do everything we can to assist in recovery, minimize the ecological and economic impact of this spill. thank you very much. >> thank you. i should point out the captain from the coast guard, it was the forward command officer for the federal government here. we have here the head of the mississippi department of environmental quality and bill walker, the head of the mississippi department of marine resources toward the lead agencies of this. with that, we take questions. yes? [inaudible] >> it is at the well itself, at the rig.

we are overseeing the methodology that bp is using to get that stopped, to stop the flow of oil. they're actually manufacturing it. they will try to deploy it this week. they're the ones who have been down underneath so does not affect the oil flow, but it does not affect the area that needs to be capped. with respect to the oil that comes to the surface, and the efforts to prepare for landfall, bp is working. i would use the relationship as wholesale to retail. let me explain. bp is the supply chain for equipment, for personnel that

may not be locally available for payment to people who are being hired, fishermen. they are the supply chain. how is that going to be deployed? and what captain: is doing is making sure -- what captain poland is doing is making sure there is a smooth the deployment. this is going up on all across the gulf, and all of the areas where we have forward command staging. it ultimately feeds up into the national incident commander, who was a confidante of the coast guard, fat allen, and he is responsible for making sure -- thad allen, is ultimately

responsible for making sure of making projections on where this will move. they're good for about 72 hours is when noaa would say they have scientific confidence in the projections. as those projections of where the oil is going well moot, that means adjustments along the entire gulf. we're working with state and local governments to make sure they have smoothes connectivity with bp. we're making sure that they have the authority to use the national guard. those authorities have been swiftly turned around and given to the governor to have their back pockets, and we're making sure at the national incident command level that we are able to flex their response depended on where the oil actually goes. >> would you say that your level of confidence in that contraption that they're putting

down on the floor will actually worked to contain the oil? >> i hope it works. it has not been used at that depth before perry -- before. but we're still proceeding as if it won't. if it does, that will be a major positive development. but we are proceeding forward and the governor is proceeding forward and his personnel are proceeding forward, we are all proceeding forward on the assumption that it won't. >> are there any criminal charges? >> 72 hours from now, will come ashore? [inaudible] >> the current weather conditions are such that the oil is projected to move to the north and slightly to the west.

meaning that for mississippi, it is not likely to make landfall here in the foreseeable next couple of days' window. where the oil goes is very much a function of the weather conditions. the wind can shift rapidly, as anyone in the state knows well. there has been concerned about where else the oil may go. we cannot predict the dynamic state of the ocean with any confidence further out than 72 hours. so far, our projections have been relatively accurate, and we're doing everything possible to contain this spill and keep it from moving in places, coming ashore. that is what all of the activities, the use of the dispersant, the burning are all intended to contain as much as possible. but of course, the big effort needs to be to stop the oil at

its source. every resource is being deployed to make sure that happens. the weather has, in the last couple days, been very helpful. when the wind is low and the ocean is more calm, we can apply the dispersants and do burns. we can see better where it is. when the ocean is very rough, as it was over the weekend, it is much more difficult to be doing anything active by containment. i[inaudible] >> i am wondering if you have a best case scenario, worst-case scenario? >> well, the best case scenario would be that the oil never reaches land fall. i don't think we can depend on that.

this thing has spread. the oil takes various forms. some of it is tar balls, chunks of oil. there is emulsified oil on the surface of the ocean. then there are miles and miles of sheen. so that is really what we are dealing with. that area is hundreds of square miles, currently, covered. i think the best case scenario is there is no landfall. the worst case scenario is one where they lose control at the wellhead itself. we are hopeful. we all hope they are successful this weekend. that would provide some confidence that we can work with

the amount of oil that we are currently seeing. but we won't know until the end of the weekend whether that is so. >> for the state, we are praying for the best, preparing for the worst. we have a multi layered defense plan to defend outside the barrier islands, to defend in the passes. if it gets beyond the barrier islands and the sound, to skim, the burst -- disperse, battle in the sound. at the mouth of the bay, where we have boom, ultimately, if this orange conglomeration of oil penetrates into the mouth of the day, then we will set up and fight it on front of the

most fragile marshlands, which is where the shrimp are right now this time of year. then, what gets through, we will clean up off the beaches. but i think as jeff reported, there is not certain the hear that this is armageddon, that something terrible is going to happen. we may have, as the secretary says, we may be hit by sheen, which is negative impact, but not a great big impact, certainly not a catastrophe. we may get a little bit of the mouse, and we could go on from there. people need to understand, don't be frantic, remember, there are ways to volunteer. we need people to volunteer, get trained.

it don't just expect that you can volunteer to go down to the beach. we need volunteers trained. we hope that the fishing fleet will all come in and become vessels to fight the oil slick, and also that our people will volunteer. ma'am? [inaudible] >> we just finished a great golf tournament, record turnout, super. . i think everybody loved it. the beaches were beautiful. it may be that five days from now, three days from now, we could have some intrusion. but we have not and the waters are still open for fishing, by the way, and there are still people coming down as tourists

to go to the beach, to fish, to enjoy the entertainment and great destination resorts of the mississippi gulf coast. when that changes, i am sure you will find out about it. [inaudible] >> but oil that is coming out of the riser pipes takes about three hours before it comes to the surface. oil is lighter than water, seawater in particular, so it floats at the surface. one of the reasons we are using the dispersants is to break up that sheet of oil that is at the surface, to make it into smaller droplets that can then sink back down and be more easily degraded naturally.

the microbes that are in the ocean will naturally degrade oil, but it is hard for them to attack it if it is at the surface in a uniform sheet. by making it into smaller droplets that can sink down and be more available, it can be broken up more naturally. that is the goal of using the dispersants, and you heard the numbers that secretary napolitano said about how many have actually been deployed to date. it is a very active area. there is also experimental use of the dispersant at the source, where the oil is coming out, what the intent of keeping it from getting to the surface at all. so the ocean will degrade the oil naturally at a faster rate if it is in smaller droplets then at the surface in a new uniform mass.

>> one observation, and i think the doctor will verify this. about 5,000 barrels of oil per week seeps into the gulf of mexico naturally. about 260,000 barrels of oil per year seeped in through the floor of the gulf of mexico, and it handles it. i don't understand why. she probably does. so far, this will has leaked, at 5,000 barrels per day, has leaked about 80,000 barrels. about 1/3 of what goes into the gulf naturally anyway. now, that is it on the surface in coming at us, we have to deal with it. it could be a problem, it could be a catastrophe. us not forget that the gulf of mexico on its own, without any of us, manages to somehow

absorber without most of us even knowing it happened three times more oil than has been leaked by this well yet. that is why getting it stopped at this point is very, very important. but you should not forget when you asking about the oil on the bottom, there is a bunch of oil on the bottom of the gulf of mexico. ma'am? >> is there any possibility of criminal negligence charges? >> i think right now, my focus is to make sure that this bill is capped, -- that the oil spill is capped, that the shores are cleaned up and cleaned up properly and promptly, and that bp pays for all of that. i have not -- the question you asked is probably more actively

directed at the department of justice. but we're fighting this in several areas. we want the oil stopped. we want to be able to kill it on the ocean's surface. we want to keep from getting to shore. one gets to shore, we want to get it cleaned up. when this is all over, and this will be a long time event, i don't think this will be over shortly, and long time event, when it is over, in the end, we want bp to pay for all of that. >> sir? [inaudible] >> the fish closure is the next 10 days. we will revise it accordingly. it is from area to area. we want to do that, and we had the full support of the fishing managers of the region. we want to make sure there is no

fish commercially caught that is in any way harmful to human health. we also want to send a signal that the fish caught outside of the immediate area is in fact safe. as others have noted, not all of the gulf coast is affected, and we want to make sure that the fishing industry continues to thrive, but also supply food for the american public. but in a safe fashion. we will be monitoring the fish closure at the end of the 10 days. again, it is dynamic, the areas of closure change depending on the movement of the oil. but our number one goal is to ensure the safety of the american public so they feel confident that the seafood their purchasing or eating is in fact safe and healthy. >> last question. >> you were talking about the hardship plan.

[inaudible] a plan that might provide public assistance? >> we want to make sure bp pays for that. at the same time, we want to make sure the federal government is able to step in to bridge that gap if necessary. we are making those that assessments, working with the industry, the fishing industry, the food processing industry, hotels, motels, charter boats, anyone and everyone who might be affected, to get that information and supply that to the president and members of congress so they can make that policy determination as quickly as possible. that is why we started this collection of economic impact on monday. we have folks down here. the various states working with the governor's office, the local elected officials, making it the economic determination. >> thank you. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010]

[captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> attorney general eric holder was on capitol hill to testify about the budget request. during his comments to a senate subcommittee, he said the investigation into the attempted bombing of new york's times square had not been hindered by reading the suspect his rights. this is a little more than one- and-a-half hours. >> good morning, everybody. this is the commerce justice subcommittee on appropriations will come to order. today, we reviewed the budget

for the department of justice and will take testimony from the very able attorney general, eric holder. after he completes his remarks and we have questioning, we will also hear from the inspector general. as everyone knows, it is the practice now of the subcommittee at every hearing to listen to the inspector general. though senator shelby is not here it's because the banking committee is deliberating t financial service reform on senator shelby is not here because the banking committee is debating on the floor. unanimous consent we will put the shelby statement into the record. we will ensure that senor shelby's questions will be forwarded to you, mr. holder, and we will protect all of the rights that senator shelby has as the ranking member. this morning we're going to discuss the justice departnt's

2011 budget request and we will be examining how we strengthen national security, counterterrorism and also protect the safety and security of u.s. citizens. and prudent use of the taxpayers' dollars. we welcome mr. lder, who brings the experience of a career prosecutor, experience in the pratesector, but also he himself has worked diligently on the protection of the public from terrorism and violent crime as an assistant u.s. attorney. i have three priorities that i'll be examining with the justice department today. number one, national security, which is how is the department of justice keeping america safe? also, community security, what is the department of justice doing to keepur community safe from violent crime, gangs and

drug dealers and our families safe, whether it's against mortgage fraud or the despicable stalking of sexual predators. as the chair of the commerce justice subcommittee, i'm going to make sure the department of justice has what it need to carry out its mission and its mandate to protect the country from predatory attacks, whether they occur by terrorists in times square or in our neighborhoods and, hey, in times square it was in both. weave worked to put dollars in the federal checkbook to be able to do that. as we review president obama's request, we note that the request is for $29.2 billion, a 1.5 billion increase over the 2010 omnibus level. the five levels of the budget include safeguarding our southwest border for $584

million, that is pursuing and dismantling the drug cartels in the smuggling of illegal narcotics, drugs and human beings. the other is the funding for state and local law enforcement, where we woy that that blue line is getting thinner and needs all the help they can in the loca communities. because all crime fighting begins with the locals, and i must say as we will be hearing about the times square incident this morning, the fact that local vendors cooperated to see something, say something but the nypd right there on the job moving as swiftly as they could because they had -- they were there and had the right training and the right equipment, then backed up by federal agents. it worked i think the way it should and we look forward to hearing that but also there is the rise of white collar crime and this committee believes that that crime too needs to be

followed through with investigation and prosecution and jail if necessary, particularly in the area of mortga fraud in the financial scams that go on but last but not at all least we're here to also look out for the civil rights of our people and that enforcement. previous administrations have cut funding for local law enforcement by 50%. we don't want to do that. we want to make sure that the crime rates don't rise. we want to get crime rates down. we want to get unemployment rates down and this subcommittee wants to do its part. this budget invests $3.4 billion in state and local and tribal partners and look forward to working with our local communities. last month we heard -- we know about the partnership, of course, with the fbi and we reviewed this extensively with the fbi director.

we believe those joint task forces, whether it's on violent crime, terrorism or mortgage fraud, is the way to go. we look forward to your budget on that. i know we've started late and i just want to make one other emphas emphasis, which is on protecting women and children. we reall salute the obama administration for increasing funds against the violence against women and know when the hot line was created i the judiciary committee and senator leahy played such an important part in that along with our vice president, we now know that hot line, over 1 million women have called thatot line and they've either been saved from death or danger. we want -- that's as important as standing stry against any other attack. the protection for children, as a former child abuse worker there's nothing as vile as a crime against a child anticipate want to make sure yo have the

right resources to do the job. there are other issues referring to guantanamo bay, the prchase of the illinois prison and detention of prisoners but we are fortunate this morning to have also the chair of the judiciary committee and i know he will have his own particular questions, and then also someone who's been very vigorous in the area of the justice department, senator leahy. i'm going to ask you now that i have unanimous consent formy full record going -- or my full statement going into the record and attorney to the attorney general. >> good morning, chairwoman mikulski. senator leahy a senator lautenberg. thank you for the opportity to discuss the president's fiscal year 2011 budget for the department of justice and provide an update on the progress, its key priorities and also our future plans. i appreciate your recognition of the department's critical mission and look forward to your

continued partnership and support. now, when i appeared before this subcmittee last may, i set forth several goals for the department. to protect our nation's security, to reinvigorate the department's traditional missions and to restore integrity and transparency at every level of the department's work. i also pledged that under my leadership all decisions and pocies would be based on the facts, the law and the best interests of the american people regardless of political pressures or political consequences. no almost one year later i'm pleased to report that the department has made i believe historic progress in meeting these goals. although new challenges and demands have emerged, the thousands of men and women who serve the department have advanced efforts to prote our country, to enforce our laws in a nonpartisan manner, to defend our interests in court and to ensure the strength and the fairness of our justice system. the president's fiscal year 2011

budget request for the department of justice which totals, as you said $29 billion and includes enhancements will allow the department to build on the progress that's been achieved over the last 15 months. now, during this time we have enhanced our national security programs and capabilities. we've strengthened efforts to support our most vulnerable communities. to safeguard civil rights in our workplaces, our housing market, voting booths, our border areas and also to protect our environment. in light of last week's oil spill in the gulf of mexico i want to note that the justice department stands ready to vigorously enforce the laws that protect thpeople who work and reside near the gulf, the local wildlife, the environment and the american taxpayers. i recently dispatched a team of attorneys to new orleans to monitor the oil spill and the department will continue to provide critical legal advice and support to the agencieshat are involved in the federal

response. as part of our focus on securing our economy and combating mortgage and financial fraud, the department is now spearheading the financial enforcement task force that president obama launched last year. and in collaboration with the department of health and human services we have made meaningful progress in combating and deterring health care fraud through the health care fraud prevention and enforcement action teams also called the h.e.a.t. teams. through this initiativ we have brought the full resources of our agencies to bear against individuals and corporations who illegally divert taxpayer resources for their own profits. just last week this work resulted in a $520 million settlement, the largest ever amount, paid by a company in a civil only settlement of off label pharmaceutical marketing claims. and over the past 15 months, the justice department has recouped more than $2.8 billion in health ca fraud cases through the use of the false claims act. money that will be fed back into the federal coffers.

the president's budget request will allow the department to build on these achievements and continue making progress in meeting its responsibilities. let me assure you that in distributing and usi these funds we will do them carefully and think strategically and we will act to ensure accountability and transparency just as we have in managing the billions of dollars that have recently been recovered. now, the investments requested in the president's budget would allow us to continue aggressively pursuing and prosecuting health care fraud, to expand the community oriented policing services program -- hiring program, the cops program. to reduce violent crime and drug trafficking, to assist our state and local and tribal law enforcement partners, to ensure that detention programs are adequately funded and effective prison and jail re-entry programs are available to protect civil right, to combat international organized crime and enforcemmigration laws. as you know, the department is currently working with agencies across the federal government

and with congress to support comprehensive immigration reform in a way that keeps faith as president obama has sa with our heritage as both a nation of immigrants and a nation of laws. the budget would also allow the department to strengthen its critical national security work. as you've seen $300 milln in program increases have been requested to help strengthen national security and to counter the threat of terrorism. these resources will enable us to expand on therogress that we've made in the last year. due to the vigilance of our law enforcement and intelligence agencies we have succeeded repeatedly in idtifying and avert i averti ining nascient pls. faisal shahzad was arrested in connection with his alleged role in the car bombing in times square. on tuesday, he was charged with acts of terrori, transcending national boundaries, attempted use of a weapon of mass

destruction and other federal crimes. if convicted, he faces a potential life sentence in prison. now, during ongoing questioning by federal agency shahzad provided useful information and we will continue to pursue a number of leads as we gear inteigence relating to this attempted attack. now, although this car bomb failed to properly detonate, this plot was yet another reminder that terrorists are still plotting to kill americans. in february naji buhlazazi pled guilty. less than two weeks ago we secured another guilty plea from one of his co-conspirators and revealed the role of a senior al qaeda leader in ordering the plot. three others have also been charged as a result of our investigation. these attempted attacks are stark reminders of the threats that we face as a nation and we must confront for the department

of justice and our partners in the national security community, there is simply no higher priority than disrupting potential attacks and bringing those who plot them to justice. and the shahzad and zazi cases that is exactly what the dedited federaagents, law enforcemt officers and justice department prosecutors along with their state and loc partners in particular the nypd, what we achieved through exemplary investigative efforts. it is in america's best interest to ensure that these public servants have the resources necessary to continue their outstanding work. now, in this time of unprecedented challenges and new threats and ongoing war, your support will be critical in helping the department meet its goals and our obligations. as we move forward i look forward to working with all of you, as well. once again i thank you for inviting me here today and i am now happy to answer any questions that you might have. >> thank you very much,

mr. attorn general. we are going to proceed this morning and in terms of a rival we note the chair of the judiciary coittee. i'm going to ask some questions rerve my right for a second round to be sure that members who have really demaing schedules have their opportunity. obviously the times square bombing attempt is in everyone's -- the news. there are those who will raise issues related to the miranda reading rights and so on. that is not my focus. my focus is the questions to you related to the way it worked and the way you feel you have the resources for it to continue to work. as press accounts report, vendors saw a smoking car. they said something and nypd rived. they took the actions they were supposed to.

then federal officials came in. you can relay that story. my question to you is is that the way -- y can't have an fbi agent on every corner but you can have police officers on many corners. how do you see that, first of all, i think it's amazing that this man was apprehended in 53 hours and 24 minutes. >> yes, that was -- >> i think we really have to congratulate law enforcement for that. the watch list is a different bag, talking to me about watch lists is like chalk on a blackboard but let's talk about what our law enforcement did, both state and local up the chain and then do you feel you have -- what did it take to do that and do you have the resources to make sure whether it's in los angeles or baltim e baltimore, et cetera, that we have these security mechanisms and people. >> yeah, well, i think that the

success of that efft is a direct result of the joint efforts that we have between the federal government and our state and local partners, the work that the fbi did in new york with the new rk police department, as well as our counterparts at the department of homeland security. i think all of that combined for making the -- our attempts to disrupt that plan successful. and that is why the budget focuses on getting money to these joint terrorism task forces, getting money to our state and local partners. i think what you saids exactly right. we have to use our state and local counterparts as frce multipliers. they are the people who are going to be most familiar with th communits in which they operate. there are far more of them than there are federal law enforcement officials and without their assistance, without their partnership, we will not be as successfu as we were in foiling this plot. >> so what is it then do you

feel -- do you want to elaborate on your c.o.p.s. program, your burn grants. do you feel it's because of this or do you fl that police departments where there's high risk of threat, new york obviously being one, l.a., we ow the list, washington, d.c., that there needs to be specialized training? what do we need to put in the budget so that we can deploy people in communities and that they have the right training and the right equipment? >> well, i think we have to -- >> just not putting someone in a uniform on the street. it's like boo on the ground in urban neighborhoods. they have to be train ed and equipped. >> right. there are a number of steps. we have to certainly first pport the hiring of state and local law enforcement officials. the cops hiring plan has -- 600 cops hiring program have a fiscal year 2011 request for $600 million, up $297 million from this ye. so that's the first step. to get these people on the

force, but the pointou make is an excellent one and that simply having them there is not sufficient. they have to be adequately trained. they're interacting with their federal counterparts and these joint terrorism task forces, training opportunies that we can make available. the training that the knowledge that we can glean from them in the interaction that we have during training. we have built upon the billion dollars that was in the recovery act that was dedicated to the cops program to try toake sure that we have a constant level of support for our state and local partners both in terms of hiring and with regard to the specialized training that is needed in dealing with these terrorism cases. >> aren't you cutting the cops program by $100 million in the prident's request? >> well, i am not --

>> the fiscal 2011 budget request provides for $690 million, in 2010 there were 792 million. tell you what, mr. holder, why don't you check that out with your team, because i know this committee on a bipartisan effort, if there's one thing we really do support, it's the cops program and the burn grants. i think as we look at the justice department, that's where everyone on either side of the aisle becaus every community needs it. why don't we take a look at that and see and come back to it. >> the numbers that i have show us increasing the amount pretty substantially from about $298 million to $600 million. so in terms of cops money, cops hiring and, again, as i said that's built on top of the billn dollars in money that

was dedicated from the recovery act. but we'll certainly -- let me work throu those numbers and share them with you. >> right, becausi think the point that i'm making, let's make -- that there is no reduction of support for the cops program and also for the burn grants which allows them to get what the need depending on the needs of the local communies. but i want to be sure that we accommodate as many people as we can. i'll come back to my questions. senator leahy, we're so glad to have the chair of thejudiciary committee here. >> thank y. thank you and i apologize that i'm going to have to leave because the committee is going to be having a markup. attorney general, i all the commissioner ray kelly to applaud the new york police department for their work on the

times square bombing, and i have spoken to you. i applaud you and the department of justice and the fbi for what they've done as it is one of those things where it is nice to see everybody working together. i should also applaud the citizens who in this case the vendor who saw something suspicious and reported it to the police. the police reacted immediately and i won't go into all the things you were able to do and tracking phones and everything elsen this hearing. it was a pretty remarkable to see all the pieces come together. i was rather surprised to hear members of congress criticize law enforcement for dng what law enforcement has always done since the miranda decision came down and offering up and giving

miranda warning to the suspect. now, the fact that you had to give miranda warnings, which is requir, did that in any way hinder your investigation? >> no, it did not. as we have seen in prior investigations, the giving of miranda warnings has not deterred people from talking to us and mr. shahzad is, in fact, continuing to cooperate with us. >> in fact, wouldn't it be safe to say and you can rely on your own experience as a prosecor even before you were attorney general, as i rely on mine, isn't it safeto say that there are many, many, many cases where a person is given a great deal of information about a crime theye committed after they've been given the miranda warning. >> that's absolutely correct and

it is not conferring a right on somebody or giving them -- treating them in a special way. it is allowing us to make sure statements they give to us will be admissible in court. if you look at what we have done in the recent past, the following people have been given the miranda warnings and ha after that continued to cooperate. david headley, colleen larose, jamie pauline ra mire rest, daniel boyd, dylan bo, zahira boyd. even after getting warnings cooperating. mr. zazi andhis co-conspirator, abduutallab and all these people who still ultimately decided to speak with the government. >> again, i c think back even to murder cases where -- prosecuted and now you're dealing with far m serious cases where, again, people are ven the miranda warning and they went ahead and gave the information, but you also had then, as you said, the ability

to usehe -- use the statements in court. now, since taking office, i believe -- and madam chair, wearing my hat as the chair of the judiciary committee, i've seen you use all the options available to try terrorists, suspects including federal criminal commissions. since september 11th, there have been over 400 terrorism-related convictions in federal court. there are hundreds of terrorists locked up in our prisons. over 400. now there's been three people convicted in military commisons. i think the new manual for military commissions was issued last week. without putting words in your mouth is it safe to say that the federal courts know what they're

doing when they handle these kind of cases? >> i'll use those words. we want to make sure that we use all the tools that we have available to us in ting to prosecute this war. if you were to take from us the ability to use the federal courts, you will weaken our ability to win this war. you will weaken the strength of this nation. we have to have the ability to use the article 3 courts, the reformed military commissions, our litary power, our diplomatic power. we need to have all these tools so we are successful in this fight against al qaeda and others who would do this nation harm. >> in ke of the disastrous oil spill in the gulf of mexico there were reports that bp was requiring the fishermen who volunteered to help clean up the spill to waive their rights to sue bp. now, these fishermen are out of work because of the bp spill and

also reports bp was offering settlements capp at $5,000 to residents facing damage from the spill if they give up their right to sue. these are peoe facing financial ruin, lifetime building up their fishing operations being wiped out. are there ways that government might make the fishermen and small business owners and residents and other victims of the oil spill whole immediately while still holding those responsible for the spill like bp and halliburton and whatnot, holding them ultimately liable? >> well, that's one of the reasons why i dispatched a task force of lawyers to head up our civil division, the head of our environmental and natural resource division to get down there to make sure we protect the federal government's rights with regard to the cost that will be potentiallyincurred in

this cleanup and to make sure those costs are borne by bp but to ensure that the residents in that area, the business people in that area, have a -- maximize their opportunities for recovering whatever moneys they can have. it's my understanding that bp has backed off on that effort to get people to sign waivers and i think that's the appropriate thing to do. trying to get people to away for a mere $5,000 damages that you might have would far exceed that is clearly t right thing to do. >> thank you. thank you very much. thank you, pad dam chair, i apologize for ving to leave. >> i think we're very fortunate to have the chair of the authorizing committee of judiciary and the intell committee here because of the work of the fbi and because of the anti-terrorism issues and we are going to really ask our two authorizing chairs to look at

this budget and welcome their advice and their insight as we put this together. senator lautenberg, you were the second to arrive. >> thank you, madam chairman. >> and then we'll to senator murkowski and finestein. >> thank you, madam chairman and welcome attorney general holder. i say thank you for the leadership that you have brought -- provided to the a.g.'s operation. everyone knows how energetic and positive your leadership has been and we're grateful to you. one of the things that's happened in the world that we live in now is with the internationalization of everything. with the insta communications, electronic access to data has changed the world. >> uh-huh. >> we are ever-more threatened

in my view to terrorist attack and confirmed by though a bumbling one last week the fact of the matter is that it is posed as a question, as well a statement, and that is, you know the state of new jersey, you know it very well has a two-mile stretch from the airport to the harbor deemed to be the most dangerous t-mile stretch in the country as a target for terrorist attack. and yet we are s lean, i wish we could be mean, b we are lacking in resources, and the fact that we have an expansion of the cops program that attorney general is terrific. it's very helpful to us. my state,