>> our first 45 minutes this morning will look at a decision by the texas state board of education to approve a new curriculum standards for u.s. history and other social studies. the new standards would comment or water down the teaching of slavery, americas relationship with the united nations. we're going to talk in the larger context about the role of politics in the shaping of school curriculum and how much influence the political process should have. for your thoughts this morning,

and there are a couple of ways you can do that. how much should politics influence in shaping the curriculum? we will talk a little bit about that in our first 45 minutes. if you do not want to give us a telephone call, e-mail us your thoughts. off of twitter -- hear his story out of the " dallas morning news." in a landmark vote, the state board of education on friday approved new curriculum standards for u.s. history and other social studies courses.

split along party lines, the board voted 9-5 to adopt the new standards, which will dictate what is taught in all texas schools. texas standards often wind of being taught in other states because national publishers used to tailor their materials to texas, when the biggest textbook purchasers in the country. approval came after the gop- dominated board approved a new curriculum standard that would increase high-school students to question the legal doctrine of church-state separation. before the final vote, the board criticized -- the texas school board of education put out a press release concerning this decision last night and this is from the website.

among the amendments that were approved or these standards. analyze abraham lincoln's ideas about liberty, equality, and government as contained in this first and second inaugural address. that is in eighth grade u.s. history. examine the reasons the fountain -- the founding fathers protected religious freedom in america. compare and contrast this to the phrase "separation of church and state." explain instances of institutional racism in american society. discuss the solvency of long- term entitlement such as social security and medicare. you probably heard this story.

we want to get your thoughts also on the role of politics and what it should play in education and the shaping the school curriculum. let's go to houston, texas. caller: good morning. once again, the republicans want to screw up something for everyone. politick should play no part in the school board or the curriculum in the school system. unfortunately, i live here in texas. i am stock. -- stop -- stuck. i am a rooted in the area. otherwise i would be out of this republican state. i live in a suburb here in texas. it has not been at majeure. -- maj.

-- major. i am recovering from knee surgery and i have not gone into the city that much. host: thank you for your call this morning. next up is a minneapolis. caller: how are you doing? i would like to thank c-span for having these kind of discussions. i would like to say that politics has always been involved with public education. there is a longstanding documented history behind that. what i am very concerned about is what you said earlier in the intro piece about watering down certain issues of american history, may be to appease a

certain group of people more for political value than educational value. one of the things that we have been very concerned about here in minneapolis is the allocation of title 1 of funding -- title 1 funding. what i would like to see is the education experience of america's children reflected -- reflected dynamics of the school's population of children that brings a lot of funding into our local school district to the federal government. i would like to seek a high quality of education -- see a high quality of education that

brings out the depth of our history, our collective histories of all ethnic groups. i really believe the equity in that history as it relates to teaching our children is not being done efficiently and the really leads into the issues, the social issues that we all see with their children right now. that leaves two different social issues. actually, we end up paying for because we're not doing our basic duties as responsible adults. host: we will leave it there. one of the board members called the proposal a travesty. she said, i am ashamed of what we have done.

board member geraldine memo -- miller was absent for both votes, on postponement and the final adoption. when a new board of education takes office in january, the board should reconsider the standards and make substantial changes. new york city, a republican line. what do you think about this decision? caller: thank you to c-span. i think the decision is terrible. it i think it is a clear reflection of the kind of environment we are in.

as you can see, we have a 70% black and latino not even graduating high school. this notion that politics does not play -- it has a clear effect. i was born in minnesota and graduated high school in minnesota. i had been in new york for years. so i know what this guy was talking about from minnesota when he explains the major disparity. it is clear racism. it is probably not going to get better. they will not even mention of malcolm x in the books. they will not even break down martin luther king, the real issue. the poor white children and black americans in this country are being left out and pushed

back. colleges should not even be so expensive. thank you. host: we will leave it there. we can get the front pages of papers across the nation. this is the "hartford courant" this morning. joining us now to give a little concept of what happens is jon lender. tell us what happened yesterday as far as what happened and what it means for november and we will talk about the specific parties involved. guest: both the republican and democratic parties chose -- endorsed their candidate for u.s. senate in november. the seat that is being vacated by christopher dodd. the democrats nominated richard

blum and fall, the state attorney general. he won by acclamation when an opponent with true. it was a pretty early night last night. it went from about -- it was over at about 8:30. on the republican side, linda mcmahon, who was the ceo of wwe won a close first ballot over former congressman robert simons for the convention endorsement. he was going to force a primary on august 10 for the ax will nomination. there is an author who did not get the required 50% of the delicate, but pledged that he is going to petition his way up to the primary ballot. -- 15% of the delegates.

housecoat how it his campaign fairing and light -- host: how it is his campaign fairings? guest: there is trouble. he is a very popular guy. he has been in the public spotlight for two decades. he had been very popular. he never really had too much political trouble, until "the new york times" struck this bomb. it had to do with a two dozen a statement that he made -- the 2008 statement that he made at a gathering of honoring the veterans. when i served in vietnam -- he said later, they said it was part of a pattern.

he said that it is not a pattern. there were other instances since that first story where he had been quoted in the newspaper, giving statements that could be interpreted that he was claiming he was in vietnam during the war. at one point, he said, when i wore a uniform in vietnam -- again, he said it was misspeaking and there were many other times that he made it clear that he has not been in the vietnam. host: how is that resonating? what does it mean for him going forward? guest: mcmahon has acknowledged providing part of the information to "the new york times." their capital link -- capitalizing on it.

everybody in the republican party has criticized him. in the democratic party, people are concerned. we took to the podium last night, they played the tom petty song, "i won't back down." the last week showed -- emphasized what my wife has been telling me for 30 years. i am not perfect, that i make mistakes. the national democratic party and the people of connecticut had thought was a pretty safe seats for the democrats and it is now very close. it is in a dead heat between the blue and fall and mcmahon. host: as far as money is concerned, talk about the condition of each of those campaigns.

guest: linda mcmahon is a very wealthy person. she has already spent $60 million to get to the point where she is. she only held won public office before. she never held elected office. she is willing to spend $50 million on the campaign, she said. richard lowenthal will be able to raise money into the millions, but linda mcmahon has an unlimited wealth of money to draw on. there will be a lot of advertising and a lot of it will focus on criticism of his character with this in vietnam -- with this in some

controversy. host: what is her appeal then? if she is never held political office and her background -- what is in her appeal? guest: she has been pretty frank about it. she has cast herself as an outsider in a year when relative outsiders are winning races. she ignored alleged early in the campaign that she had not even voted in the 2006 general election. she said last night, when she accepted the endorsement of the convention, reenergize in the republican party. it is an outsider appeal. host: is the polling suggesting

-- what is the breakdown as far as to has the advantage? guest: it is roughly even. i cannot quote you the numbers right now, but last week, after the story had and the controversy had a couple of days to develop, this was an even race. at this point. host: when will the runoff take place on the republican side? guest: it will be a three-way race. if what has happened is any guide, he did not get 15% of the convention delegates, but he is a very intelligent guy. he comes over very well on television. a very articulate guy.

it will mainly be between rob simmons and linda mcmahon. host: that was jon lender. thank you for your time this morning. if you are just joining us, we're talking about the texas board of education and approving a new curriculum standards and sums discussion of the specifics. -- some discussion of specifics. but what your thoughts on the role of politics in education -- we want your thought on the role of politics in education. on twitter -- california, you are next. caller: good morning. i want to just say that yes,

politics, religion, put people's personal bias, race hatred, homophobia, people have to take their opinions and do not look at the true facts. i want our children to be educated with the truth. what hitler did in nazi germany, what we did to the chinese when we had our illegal immigrants here in california building the railroad for us, and now we have the mexicans come in and do the work that most u.s. citizens do not want to do, --

host: we will leave it there. it caller: i am a former democrat, now independent. thank god for the texas school board because the education in our country has been lopsided in the past with the left-wing liberals. i have been reading the federalist papers and the history of the united states and it is not being reflected in what is being taught. the viewer that you had previously, she is a prime example as to why they have removed the truth from the history books and supplanted it would things that have their agenda. i do not know what she's talking about. host: mass., you are next. caller: i would like to say that i think that politics should not influence education at all. this whole concept of no child left behind and the government in fusing of large funds into

our educational system is ridiculous. when i was a child, i remember hearing people say, it too many chiefs and not enough indians. that is what we have in this country today. too many people with an education and there are no jobs for them. you cannot artificially in fuse all this money into a system to get everybody educated. the result is that people do not want to work for nothing. they do not want to do hard labor. that is why there are so many immigrants. americans do not want to work and they think they are entitled. there are not enough jobs for people with all these decrees. if we go back to a system where the government stays out of it and people with money can send their kids to school and have a great degree of education, then

we will have a lot more people who do not have the education, who are willing to do the manual labor. host: the washington post shows the results of the kaiser family poll looking at how americans view health care legislation. the poll found that 41% of the americans hold a favorable the roots of the law. the division fell among the party lines.

arizona, walter under independent line. caller: good morning. i wanted to say that i think politics has always had an influence on education. i grew up in the new york city area during the 1940's and 1950's and went to college in the 1960's. i went to a very good academic high school. it required an entrance exam in order to come into it. then i went off to north carolina to a historical black college and university and i learned there was a whole volume of books and information i was never exposed to even though i went to a very very good academic institution in high school. what i discovered as an adult is

that politics influences education even more so now. education budgets are so large. the dollars being spent in those budgets typically, from politics or from legislation. with the unionization of teachers, and i can argue with that, more importantly, with the amount that is being spent in higher education and middle schools and in public schools, politics has always had an influence because that is for the money is spent. host: out of arizona, that was a caller -- there is a story on the front of "the new york times."

chicago, ill., you are next. caller: i do not think that politics should play a role in education, but it always has. that is something we have to take into consideration.

we have seen the march of republican conservatism for the past 30 years. you look in arizona where they wanted to would -- want to do away with ethnic studies. white european history is what we had until our recent history in this country. it just does not work. you can not only teach one type of history. we have all races and religions in this country. you can not just deal with white european history. if people want to look at history, they can look at how south africa apartheid did the same thing that texas and arizona is doing right now and how that contributed to the whole mess that happened in south africa.

host: we have a twitter from mary -- oberlin park, kansas, republican line. caller: good morning. i do not think that politics -- the texas school board has -- for years, the left-wing and the progressives have been taking a meat cleaver to the history of the united states of america. the texas school board wants to take a scalpel and replace some of the vital information from our founding fathers.

now it is politics. by the way, i did have a question on c-span programming. there are a lot of issues out there. host: washington d.c., you are next. caller: good morning. politics only has influence on education when a person is on educated. when you are educated and you know the truth about history, politics is not really have an

influence on me. when you go to school and you learn those beautiful sciences, a beautiful math, a beautiful linguistics, if you're history is incorrect, how do you know that you're not reinventing the same wheel? this is why we have two parties always -- now a third party -- each one has their own history. the one that is correct never goes away. thank you for taking my call. host: montgomery, alabama, angie honor democrats' line. caller: i would be on the block and i would write about how they tried to write -- look at how the republicans get up and lied.

toy're trying to change it their views. my grandfather is indian. they're going to tell me that indians did not exist in america before they take it away. i want the truth. i think it should be all points of view. host: california on our republican line. caller: politics do not belong, only truth. the problem is that we have people like a domestic terrorist and he sits on the board that decides what goes into our school walks. you ask yourself, what have the conservatives been doing? we have been asleep at the wheel. we have a whole month of black

history in this country and they are only 12% of the population. the conservatives need to speak the truth and the people will hear the truth. they are starting to hear the truth. our children need to learn the true history of this country and like everybody wants to come to america. what our founding fathers gave up in order to provide us with this basis. obama is trying to do away with all of it. he knows his time is limited just like satan knows his time is limited. host: he is the chairman of the democratic congressional campaign committee. he had a chance to talk to reporters. he is a bit from to mars program. >> is it can -- he is -- here is

a bit from tomorrow's program. >> i think it is anit-culture that got us into this mess. here is the big thing this year. we are the party in power. we have the majority in the congress and we have the white house. the democratic president. ironically, we have also been the party of reform. all the measures we have been trying to push through the congress are to change the old business as usual that got us into this mess to begin with. that is what the wall street reform bill is all about. it is reforming the system so that taxpayers are not left holding the bag. that is why it is so interesting to see republicans devoted to come to the rescue saying, we're going to make the taxpayers do it again if we have a future

crisis. the whole purpose of this bill is to prevent taxpayers from being left holding the back again and having to pay for stupid decisions made on wall street. host: other -- you can see that tomorrow at 10:00 on c-span and catch a rebroadcast at 6:00. los angeles, you are up next. caller: the question is really kind of misstated. when you take a look at the local school boards, they are all democratic. there has not been won the kind of school board that has any kind of republican representation. take a look at los angeles. in terms of -- 27% of those

kids enter as fresh mint and will graduate when they become seniors. the problem is precipitated by the fact that if you take all of the educated people on the west side of los angeles out of this context, the ones to go to public high school, the numbers would even go further down. it is not a question about what goes into -- does politics effect the text books? does politics effect of the children? host: the headline from "the washington post" --

king park, new york, chris are democrats line. caller: thank you for c-span. you are the most unbiased show. i am concerned about this whole texas prewriting of the book. i think we're going backwards. we're not going forward in this country. i know that as a teacher and the teachers that i know, we do not put any kind of political slant

on what we are teaching. we give the children the fax. if there are any other facts that we feel we need to give them, maybe present a different side, we do. and to be doing this is a very political and iran does. we're going backwards. horrendous.nda's -- we are going backwards. caller: i am disappointed in the republican party. now it is trying to influence our children. but we have done here setback education a level probably a century. influenced by dick cheney, but george bush, who hijacked the republican party with money. i think it is a very dangerous battle and we need to stop it. texas needs to be put on hold.

go back to the regional history. it is we the people. thank you. host: on twitter this morning -- you can join us on twitter. indianapolis on our independent line. caller: i do not know how you can control it. the texas school board can pass and write anything they want. how do you control individual teachers? housecoat you think it is a moot point? -- housecoat you think it is a moot point?

-- host: you think is a moot point? caller: how do you control it? host: as a result of their stories, there were certain things found in the riding. -- writing. from "the new york times" -- courts should give high levels of the french only to decisions made by top aides. a change that would create incentives to route more decisions to the front office where political appointees work.

dallas, texas. caller: write in your back -- this is always in our backyard. i do not think politics should play a part in anything. texas is the one that held us back even though we were free. texas is not ever going to get out the true history. when i was coming up, i am 59 years old, at everything i learned about african americans,

i learned because our ancestors passed it down to us. it was never in a textbook. everything that was invented or discovered, it was discovered by an african american, but the white man took credit for it. the only thing that i know that caused hatred -- violent, hatred, gun powder. i think they need to stay out of to tell oured children what was true. host: miami on a republican line. caller: good morning. thank you for the program. i would like to comment on this

last african un-american that just called in. what is this hatred for whites all of a sudden? you have these people calling in and claiming that all of us white people destroyed america. she said that all we have contributed to america was the violence and gun powder. we are getting beaten down with this racism every day. this is coming from a race of people who voted for a black president block stock and barrel because his skin is black. it could not have been for his policies. look at all the controversy and all of the things -- the black

liberation theology, the hatred for america. host: do you want to weigh in on the political process in the school system? called " she said we're trying to rewrite history and that columbus did not discover america. this is ridiculous. nobody is trying to write african-americans out of history. you have george washington carver. you have all of these amazing african americans that have contributed so much to this country. nobody is trying to write them out of history. host: louisiana, democrats' line. caller: as far as politics having a bearing on education, let's look at -- he was a senator back in 1968.

he would -- could not have been a simple yes or no. everybody knows who is educated. people of different nationalities, and you are not

to be treated unfair when it comes to certain jobs. this man is saying that -- if you own a restaurant, that i could understand. when it comes to race and someone who is -- let's say it is a country club. and a black man like me wants to go into an all-white country club, i cannot go there. host: one more call. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span.

i was born in texas. i am really embarrassed sometimes. some of this stuff is way beyond. one good book for people to read would be "1984." it is amazing. he wrote that almost 60 years ago and everything is happening almost exactly like he predicted in the but and i think it would be very enlightening for a lot of people to read that, maybe get more of a handle as to what is going on these days. thank you. host: we will leave it there. our next segment deals with the impact as to what has been happening in the gulf with the oil spill. our next guest is pete spotts. we want to give the president spot on the oil spill and the

response from the representative of louisiana. >> we are taking a nav -- a number of immediate measures to prevent another spill. we have announced that no permits for drilling new wells will go forward. i have called on congress to pass a bill that would provide funds and tools to respond to this spill. we also need to take a comprehensive look as to how the industry operates and how we regulate them. that is why, on friday, i signed an executive order establishing the national commission on the oil spill and offshore drilling. there are a number of ongoing investigations, including a -- an independent review. the purpose of this commission is to consider but because of the disaster and offered options

on what we need to take to prevent a similar disaster. >> that is why it is so frustrating that while the crisis actually continues in the gulf, while we're still fighting to contain the well, washington has rushed to create a media event instead of devoting full attention to stopping the immediate problem. i guess it is typical of the culture in washington for politicians to believe they can solve an ongoing crisis with statements and testimonies and congressional committees. the time for committee hearings is for after a deep well has been capped and not before. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us from boston is pete spotts, the "christian science monitor" science

reporter. if you saw that, does it change your opinion on what has been going on in the recovery efforts that will take place after this week has stopped? tesco and not really. this is a fairly serious leak. one of the challenges is trying to figure out how much oil is coming out. early on, both the federal government and the british petroleum were using an estimate of about 5,000 barrels a day. since that time, independent experts have taken a look at videos like that to. in one case, one researcher who does a lot of work on the events

that are spewing material, using techniques they have honed to estimate the flow out of those, he was trying to apply those to the oil spill. essentially, his middle-of-the- road estimate was about 50,000 barrels per day, 10 times what bp and the government have been using. he is very candid about the uncertainties involved in those estimates because their rate lot of details about physical size of objects down there that make it a little hard to estimate. but even with those uncertainties, he is absolutely confident that it is far more than 5,000 barrels per day. host: there are stories coming out about a maneuver that might be used next week. is there any evidence that this kind of procedure works? guest: it has been hard to say

whether we have any evidence that this works at this depth. it may sound somewhat crass, but this whole incident is one large unplanned experiment on how to deal with oil spills. the idea is just to start trying to cram not leak with junk, cut up tires, debris. whether or not it will work, who knows? as you may recall, they experimented with a four-story containment dome a couple of weeks ago. that had only been tried once before in 1979. it did not work then. it was understandable.

they ran into problems with this one as well. it is certainly great that they are trying its. as someone who would like to see this leak stopped, i am ready for them to plug its. we are dealing with some many unknowns, it is hard to know whether this will work for not. host: there was an effort to do some additional drilling to cause some release of the pressure. what is the status of that project? guest: that is under way. that started a couple of days after the blowout occurred. it is a long process and it takes a couple of months to try to drill that well to not only relieve the pressure, but to plug the well. from what i have read, it seems -- that is the only thing that

experts say it is the silver bullet that will stop this. all these other measures that bp has been trying to take have been trying to at least slow down and stop the leak said that we do not have this continuous flow of oil. at the same time they are doing the one thing that will actually stop it and that is to drill this relief well. costco pete spotts -- host: pete spotts will be our guest until about 8:30. if you have questions concerning this, here are the numbers to call. you can also send an e-mail and you can also find us on twitter.

pictures of oil reaching the shores of louisiana, some affecting beaches and marshes. could you tell us a little bit of what louisiana faces as far as cleanup in the short term and what really has to be done in the long term as far as the effects of the oil? guest: as far as the short term goes, they are working very hard to use booms to prevent oil from coming into some of the most ecologically sensitive areas. overtime, during the past several weeks, they have been skimming oil off of the surface and burning it off the surface of the water to prevent it from reaching the shore. one of the real concerns is over

the long term. i want to preface what i'm about to say -- like real estate, it is location, location, location. it is the kind of oil and the amount of oil that is involved. we have had a couple of spills in our neck of the woods off of cape cod that happened 20 and even 40 years ago that have represented the longest steadied areas that have been involved in oil spills and the results are pretty sobering. there was one site that researchers have been studying for 40 years. when you look at the march that was effected, it looks great from the surface. but if you dig a shuffle into the sediments just a couple of inches, you get a very strong of diesel fuel.

that is still there and biologically active nearly 40 years after it first arrived. despite the healthy looking marshland on the surface, researchers -- there are a ies.le of interesting study i when she was up here in the boston area getting her doctorate, she was working on studying these spells. at one location that looks really great, you have animals who are still very clearly affected by the oil spill. they will not burrowed into the oily sediment. the residual products are still affecting their behavior. they do not have nearly the

kind of rapid escape response you would expect from normal fiddler crabs. one of the advantage of this location is that there are untouched marshes nearby so you have a very good sort of basis for comparing before and after. there are organisms that are still affected. the other problem, of course, is erosion. if the oil killed off the grass , the roots of that grass are holding the marsh sediment in place. it's the plants die, their roots go with them and all the sudden, you lose sediment and that is a particular problem for louisiana because they are already losing an enormous amount of sediment because of a range of factors.

spreading cities and neighborhoods as you build housing projects, housing development out in what used to be marshlands. they get drained. there is an awful lot of natural subsidence going on there any way and between that and sea level rise, they cannot afford to lose help the sediment. host: off of twitter this morning -- guest: that is a good question. i have to say that i do not know. that is certainly worth looking

up. there are people working on technologies that will try and separate the oil from the water. one of the things that they were hoping for with this containment dome was to be able to pump the oil out. when it is coming and of the ground, it is a mixture of mud and oil and methane gas. what they were hoping to do was bring not upper and separate the oil and the water and put the water back in the ocean. although there would still be a little bit of sheen to it. it would be nowhere near as bad as what is coming out. conceivably, you could do something with that oil. it would not surprise me if the approach they have been trying for bringing oil up and trying to float up, there could be

something they could do that. the oil that is recovered, thank you for giving me an additional story idea. host: we have set aside a special line this morning for gulf coast residents. batten rouge, louisiana, is up first. caller: i do not have a question. i want to express an opinion as a democrat. i have been very supportive of this particular administration, even with the one disappointment after another, i continue to be supportive. at this point, i am fearful and i am disappointed and i am disillusioned because i just believe that the government could be more swift to act. their little attention has been given -- very little attention

has been given to those things that have affected our lifestyle here. there is no urgency to come and help us. this is going to greatly affect dark economy for years and years and years. -- affect our economy for years and years. they depend on the wildlife and the fishery there to exist. these people's lives are already been devastated and that is being greatly under reported here. i am tired of listening to president obama talk about the situation and i am ready to see somebody actually act. i do believe they will be able to we use the oil there capturing every day. that is why i do not believe there is a sense of urgency. they are still benefiting from what is going on. .

.

>> one of the challenges in something like this and i know this is not, you know, this is not a satisfactory answer to everybody, but one of the challenges with this is that nobody's dealt with a spill of this magnitude coming from this depth this close to environmentally sensitive areas before. and try to deal with it in a timely fashion. of course, we had the horrible spills in the persian gulf during the first gulf war that were intentionally set by the iraqi army, but nothing, you know, let's say in peace time, you know, that seems to match this scale. everybody this a sense trying to figure out what to do, at least in terms of capping it.

so far, no of it is working. this doesn't work. we're going to pick something else up and try that, which is, you know, regarding the technique we were talking about earlier so. it is -- it does seem like just one onslaught after another down there. and that's one of the reasons too why i think, you know, we heard the head of d.p. say a little bit earlier in the week that ok, this is a problem but remember, it's a big ocean. and compared to the size of the ocean, it's a little bit of oil. and if you sat down and actually ran the numbers, calculated it, all that stuff out, you know, which you could probably in a since due back to the envelope with middle school math, junior high school math, the fact of the matter remains that the oil is threatening not the entire ocean in a way that will not have a significant effect wherever it falls, wherever that end up. there are environmentally sensitive areas around the coast

and of course we haven't talked about at all the sort of mid water fish that could be affected. there are some reports that sheens arriving in the florida she feel. but there were some reports yesterday that fisherman appearing the sheens appearing off the florida coast and these are important breathing grounds for them. host: somebody asked about human beings ingesting crude oil products. guest: i'm sure there's concern about it but temperature, the biggest concern is to try and deal with this question of, you know, of preventing the oil from

reaching the areas where that would become a problem. but at the moment, people are trying to focus on for the particularly for the wetlands, trying to prevent them from encroaching to the extent possible. host: new york city is next. calvin on our independent line. caller: i have two quick questions. good morning, c-span. number one, i just want someone just to be honest, you know? just to level with us. is this almost as bad as tra noble in the economic distancer? and number two, its really necessary for the united states to get its oil from that

platform compared to how much oil we actually consume in this country? host: mr. spotts. guest: well, i'm not an energy specialist, but there's an argument that many people will make that we do need that oil. i think there's an argument that could be made that we do need that oil, at least for now. as far as whether this is bad as tranoble, over the long term, probably not. and when i say long term, we're talking decades, basically, or

after decades. i think the concerns certainly is there are just potentially so many people that -- and fishing interests and you know, and very sensitive marine life areas that are going to be affected by this. you know, there is a certain self-healing that takes hold in these wetlands over long potts. one researcher was telling me that on the sea searcher itself, bacteria alone gobble up on the order of about i think it was on the order of about 700,000 barrels of oil a year. there are natural seeps on the sea floor that leak naturally. think about the tar pits in california down to about 5,000 feet. so there are microbes and

natural process sees that can break this down. this is essentially have the potential to overwhelm those processes. one of the side concerns that some researchers have, you may have heard of the dead zone off the gulf that sets off every spring and sets into midsummer, essentially where nutrients coming down the miami -- mississippi river feeds plankton in the gulf. and that process robs the water column of oxygen which fish need and which bottom-dwelling things like crab and shrimp and things need as well. and the concern is that and the concern, still, people need to get out and sort of test these

ideas but the additional nutrients that the oil represents in the water may at least this year make that dead zone problem a bit worse. so there are certainly some short and medium term harms. over the long-term, you know, they will recover to some stevent the question is what will they look like after they do recover? will they be the same mix of organisms and the same mix of plant life? a lot of that will come back but over long periods of time. but in the meantime, folks' livelihood will be affected. host: republican line. caller: good morning. host: morning. guest: there is an off-field clamp that will --

caller: there is an off field clamp and you can line-item veto open while you're installing it over this pipe that the oil is discharging from. and after the clamp is secured, you can close that and attach a hose or another piece of pipe to it. you can successfully install in 4400 feet of oil. already 400 feet of water with oil companies about 15 years ago for an oil spill. the question question -- other question that i have is why or have they start drilling the relief oil well yet? i think bullpen -- b.p. has brought its sacrifice and i've

been involved in this oil spill since it happened, trying to see what we can do to stop this thing. and there's also another plant which might be crobes or natural organisms that the are drived from this plant and absorb oils. host: ok, mr. spotts? guest: it's gratifying to hear there are some techniques to be used. why they haven't tried it, i don't know. i just -- that's a good question, you know, we ought to be putting to b.p. and, you know, as far as the plant remediation, as far as the use of the plant, again, that is

an importtnt tool and, you know, in the i didn't ever and again, why that hasn't been applied. -- quiver and why that hasn't been applied to. this is trre -- i hate to say it, any technological enterprise up to a point that's involved in something like this. they try what they know and only after they exhausted trying what they have had a fair bit of experience with do they then go for, you know, for some of the less well tested approaches. as the caller pointed out, the valvea approach looks like that can be quite promising. it's interesting that b.p. hasn't done it yet. they may have but given the

tools, they may have felt it's not applicable. i just don't know. but they have been working as i mentioned earlier. they have been working on the -- on the relief well almost, you know, since the -- a couple of days after the spill started. so that's underway. and that as i say, the folks i've spoken with have said that's really the only silver bullet. everything else is just trying to keep a lid on the amount of oil coming up, if you will. i'm sure there are some good solutions out there that but part of the challenge is how well tested are they? obviously the bowl thing may will -- valve thing may well be tested but it's challenging trying to get them from the lab or from a field scale experiment into a deployment in a real situation. host: are robotics the only way

to manage something like this? there's no human intervention possible? guest: well, robotics is the least expensive. there are submersibles that can carry little mini submarines that researchers have used, have far greater depths than this for science. they are extraordinarily expensive to operate. and so it would be interesting to see if one could, you know, could get one of those involved down here. it's not clear these submersibles have to have enough dexterities to pick up until sam frls the sea floor that the researchers are interested in.

host: long island. go ahead, anthony on our democrat line. caller: thank you, gentlemen. the dispersesants they're using in the oil, will that make it harder to reclaim the oil and do not those chemicals create a more environmental problem and have they not killed the atlantic ocean basically? what they've done as far as the hodgepodge of chemicals injected into the gulf stream as well as the oil i flow, will this not ultimately kill the gulf coast as well as the atlantic ocean? i mean, ultimately, it's become a hodgepodge cesspool of chemistry -- chemicals and oils that the fish are going to eat

to, eat. guest: at the moment, and this comes also from marine scientists i've spoken with who study currents and has studied the gulf current very carefully. killing the atlantic ocean, no. what is likely to happen and actually is happening to a certain extent now is the oil, some of the oil is being caught up in a major circulation feature down there known as the loop current. that's part of, you know a much larger as the caller lightly implied, that current is a part of a much larger system that starts down towards eck dorel, -- eck dore, brazil.

it gets more dense and makit. there are expectations that you might see some patchy oil sheens -- oil seen area eventually, perhaps up around the coast of florida, up toward the gulf coast, maybe palm beach and higher. but again, the expectation at the moment is that the oil on the surface is likely to, you know, is likely to weather very significantly. it takes about eight to 10 days for the oil at the spot, it's coming to the surface. if it were riding the cnt. intor

gulf stream. this current moves at a pace of about a fast walk for a human. now that's kind of slow by our lights as we're tooling around the interstate but from a oceanographic standpoint, that's a bit. and not all of it is getting entrained by the way. it's a boundary between the slick -- between the spill and the current itself. one of the things that actually people are keeping a very close eye on, this loop current comes up and forms a -- sort of forms a loop over the north coast of cuba, if you will and the loop can grow so it reachings farther and farther north. but it acts like business sauce and cut back through it -- buzz saws and cut back through it.

and there is some evidence that when you look at some of the current maps that that's what's happening right now. that there is an eddie down, you know, just north of the cuban coast that is beginning to cut through, pruning this thing. if it does break off in the right way, it will become a free-standing eddie, if you will and based on the studies that have been done on how this behave, that may start moving west away from the eastern part of the gulf and in towards texas and mexico. and it's not clear. there are some case, some scenarios in which that eddie can actually help corral the oil where it can effect operate like a bull dozer and move it along farther west so some of the coastlines that could be more affected if that were to happen would be along the texas gulf coast.

and perhaps even parts of mexico. so there's so much influx at the moment. host: off of twitter, a viewer ask what about changing the oil with liquid nitrogen to stop the leak as short-term fix? guest: interesting idea. presumably, you might be able to do that if there was a way to sort of, you know, hit the oil on the surface. i'm not sure how you would inject liquid nitrogen into that plume so it would lose the properties you would try to employ and control the spoil. -- spill. this oil is rising through 5,000 feet of water and although the water at that depth is pretty cold and it warms as you get closer to the surface. so i'm not sure how that might affect things, you know, during

the course of the traveling, it would really be a benefit. it's an interesting idea but i'm not sure how workable it would be. and of course as this oil solidifies, one of the reasons it gets denser is because it's losing a lot of the elements and as it does get dense, it gets heavy and it sinks back down. i'm not quite sure in the end that that would pull it off. although it's an interesting idea. host: dave on our republican line. guest: good morning, pedro and mr. spotts. i see -- caller: i see a lot of smoky mirror that our president is opening up the atlantic drawing and i wonder what changed his mind and a week later, this thing blows up. we haven't did what happened and why it happened. we're just worried about the

clean up. is this an inside job? we've got so much government that we don't know who to trust anymore. what are your thoughts of that? guest: well, in congressional hearings this past week, and even the week before, you know, it's clear that b.p. is taking the responsibility for this. they do take thoint failure that's done but the -- that was but down to prevent something hook this from happening. i don't know whether it is so much a conspiracy as it is a little bit too much faith in our technology. i mean, we've seen the same kind of situation over the years, you know, with the space program and the space shuttle accidents, particularly the challenger

incident where people were basically writing exceptions to some of the flight rules they have in place to try and act as sort of backstops to prevent accidents. and it seems that in some cases that may have been what was going on here where there were environmental waivers granted and so fort. interestingly, i've heard but i must confess i haven't had time to check out but there are some countries that require two blowout protecters on the wells on exploratory wells like this. if one fails, you can keep the other one in control. i think there are certainly a number of people who would say that the administration's willingness to ownership some areas of our coastal waters for additional exploration was, you

know a nod to republican concerns about the need for energy independence and that oil and natural gas have to be part of that, part of that equation. in that sense, this couldn't have happened at worst time because as the caller noted, there's been a substantial backlash. even among some republicans against --, know, from what i'v heard of the hearings, they do not necessarily wavering their support for continuing offshore exploration but they are keenly interested from seeing if there are ways to prevent something like this from happening again. host: five more minutes with our guest. taylor, michigan, don. independent line. caller: it's sad to go to arizona and asked to see your papers. mr. spotts, solar, solar, solar. in 1953, b.p. asked our

government, the president of iran because he wanted to naturalize the oil fields. and he ended up getting murdered. corrupt oil companies. look what we're going through now. two wars over oil. and how many thousand dollars of women and men have been killed over oil? here we are going over this disaster all they want to do is talk. and this is terrible. this is absolutely terrible. pe need to go solar. and all the oil ever does is gauging and what is going on with this oil spill mow? they're downplaying it. we need to go solar, solar, solar. and thank you. guest: well, there are a lot of people that agree with that. the challenge are solar is trying to get enough of it out there in a cost-effective way. there are people who are willing to pay a premium on their

electric bills to embrace, you know, more renewables and certainly the various forms of sloors -- solars to generate electricity. let's also remember that solar, solar, solar is a way of producing electricity which is great as we move toward electric cars but it doesn't solve the problem for the millions of -- the millions of fossil fuel vehicles that are on the road today, our airliners that are flying through the air and at the moment need at least some portion of a petroleum-based fuel. i have no doubt that that's a very smart direction to be heading in and for a whole bunch of reasons, we should be heading in that direction as quickly as we possibly can. but i don't think that's going to eliminate the need for fossil fuels for petroleum in

particular for oil products over the short term. we can sort of cut that need, you kno if you're thinking of using things like ethanol, but even that, yhere was a lot of b and forths early on and eventually in a way prevailed to get this other national democrats not to really bat case and case wouldn't get out of the race. so it's gotten messy and there's been a lot of conflict between the democrats and a lot of allegations made about promises and broken promises and it's gotten ugly and at this point, the national democrats catt and others have written off the seat, fully expecting the republican to win tonight and turning their sights to november when they'll have a rematch and dajue will end up challenge one of those two candidate, whoever wins a primary that will come up this fall. host:aways the likelihood of winning that contest?

guest: very low. it's a very democratic district and it would be very shocking da jew would be able to hold on in november. host: one of the things we use is going to a voting place to vote. but hawaii does it differently? guest: it's an all mail-in special election. so the voters can turn into their ballots until 6:00 p.m. hawaii time. so it can be late getting election results but already more than half of hawaii's voters have turned their ballots in. the office of elections said yesterday that something like more than 150,000 and 317,000 voters have already turned in their ballots. so it's sort of doesn't allow a lot of time for last-minute shakeout and a lot of the votes have already come in before host: turning to colorado now.

the state democratic party is holding their convention tonight. you can see that on c-span. tell us a little bit about who is running and then who -- if that senator bennett has challenger in that race. guest: he does. michael bennett, obviously appointed by gooernor bill ritter 16 months ago when salazar became the secretary of interior yorment got thibly. support. but he's up against someone who has long been seen as sort of the natural person to rise to that senate level.

we're going have the democratic assembling colorado. so they will meet and vote in bloomfield for who will appear first on the ballot. so it's not going to decide the election tonight. but everyone expects that roam november will win a majority of the delegate votes. and it's also a shot of momentum to show that even ttough romanoff doesn't have the establishment support, he's still able to win majority. and in fact, there is a provision that if you get more than 70% of the delegates, then you are unopposed on the august ballot so. romanoff's people best case scenario would be that even though right now he has like 57% of committed delegate support,

he gets to 70% then there's no primary. if it did for the second time in three weeks, we will see an incumbent senator named bennett fall in a state convention. host: james hohmann is the national political reporter for the "politico." if you want to see this and others, turn to that website. host: we are going to turn now top, the fannie mae and freddie mac. and joining us is james catuso from heritage.

guest: well, they were both chartered and created by the government. they have a lot of priffs that are only exercised by government access to the treasury. and most importantly, an implicit government guarantee that last year became a liability for the government. what would they do essentially is buy and securitize home loans. in other words, when a loan originator makes a loan, that is sold to fannie mae or freddie mac and they bundle it together and sell it to investors. they were quite aggressive during the housing boom, investing in increasingly of home mortgages and we're caught very badly. they collapsed frankly in

september of 2008, two years ago. they're dees the entire financial meltdown -- keys to the entire financial meltdown. the largest existing bailout obligation of the federal government. and it's continuing. just about two weeks ago, the two agencies which are now in skiffship asked for about $19 billion in additional bailout funds. host: would the government be considered too big to fail? guest: yes. they have an implicit government guarantee that if they had ever gotten into trouble, the federal

government would pay their way out of it. and for years, that was a matter of debate in academic circles whether that meant anything. a lot of people said well, that's just a theoretical guarantee and doesn't cost the taxpayer anything. we see it more than a free lunch. now it is very costly, it is not a free lunch. host: we went through wreaths of ranging by financial reform. was freddie and fannie part of this loss? guest: no. we have a bill going through congress advertised as a bill to end bailouts. the same week that bill has been debated, fannie mae and freddie mac asked for more bailouts. it is an ongoing bailout represents half of all

outstanding bailouts liabilities by the government. yet it was not addressed at all in the bill that's pending in gonge. -- congress. host: why? guest: the administration say it is very complicated. it would take some time to sort it out. that strikes me as a valid excuse. it is complicated and it's their job to work these things through and solve problems. i think that there are a couple of things going on politically. one is the agencies are supportinggthe housing market even today. we're -- they are continue to pile loans to support housing prices and there is a concern that if -- either the problem is addressed and if it is closed down or restructured, that

support will go away. now, there has to e sometime when the reforms are made by putting it off now, we're simply putting off the inevitable. host: i think it wasssenator warner saying build a bad time considering freddy and fannie and some would say cut them off completely. guest: frankly, there's evidence that got us into this mess by artificially supporting housing prices and by having that beyond any actual value and to continue that is to ask for another continuing crisis. host: if do you want ask our guest questions, the numbers will be on your screen. they all start with a 202 area

code -- what would be your advice for these two entities? would you cut them off completely? guest: i think they should be caust completely. there would be a phase-off period, some reasonable amount. you can't just overnight say tomorrow afternoon, they will disappear. the long-term or at least the medium term goal should be to terminate them. there are certainly private firms that are ready and willing to do that. it's not a government function cannot be done by the private sector.

host: what about private homeowners who already have homes by fanny and freddy? guest: i think it would be a almost lost. it might have been an argument for doing the change now. long term, you have to look at the effects on homeowners as being negative if we don't make this change. it certainly would be almost inviting another boom and bust cycle, which is going to be bad news for both buyers and sellers in the arketplace. host: is there a willingness to

spend off these two? guest: well, it's not clear how the politics are going to shape out. interestingly, barney frank who with is the strongest defender historically said a month or two ago that he thought their time was up. it's time to end these two agencies. so what we're looking at is what 's next for them? these status quo is not acceptable option for anyone although it might be a default position. but there's three options, making them into government agencies directly. i question that because if they got into trouble on their own, i'm not sure the direct management will be any before. there's privatizing the agencies and making them completely independent to government, having them operate in the marketplace as any other firm, which would be a good solution

if you could eliminate the perception in the marketplace that they would be supported again by the government. and the general accounting office said that perception would be very hard to eliminate. even if they were privatized the government said there is no more support and no more implicit guarantee. that leaves the option of frankly eliminating these corporations ennirely writing them off, liquiding their asset. -- liquiding tteir assets. host: our guest is for the heritage foundation, james gattuso. and the first call is clinton,

pennsylvania, ray on our independent line. go ahead. caller: good morning, pedro and mr. gattuso. question. who are the architects of celebrity hairstylist frederic fekkai -- freddie mac and fannie mae who put these two organizations together? what parties do they belong to? not the administrations thht were empowered -- in power at the time, but what particular politicians are the architects of this? what party do's they belong to? guest: well, i think the housing parties has been a bipartisan one. it started -- the engine started deal. it began back then as a democratic program.

but the mission was expanded and actually the public private hybrid of model when fannie mae was made a private corporation of a for profit corporation was done in 1970. so that was a republican administration was done -- it was through republican support, i understand. but this has not been traditionally how the party initiated. in the last few years, it has been more of a spin on the whole issue especially going back to the mid 2000's, 2003, 2005 after the end, you have some accounting scandals and there's a push for reform. a lot of members of congress, john mccain were pushing for reform legislation to increase

regulation and oversight of it. to was opposed by a lot of the members of the democratic party barney frank in particular was strongly -- bernie frank was in particular strongly opposed to that. tist partisan issue throughout time. host: republican line. birmingham, miccigan. caller: i understand the very skiff foundation and many times, i've seen you on c-span, you take a decidely republican bent to your public opinions. i just finished reading tte "big short" which exemplifies what happens on wall street and i think it's not fair when people start trying to blame fannie and freddie when it's really the

wall street brokers and + investment banks and the rating agency. they were the once that were just raising the prices of homes and mortgages and all the different investment vehicles and fanny and fredette -- freddy were quite a reliable institution. it's really truthfully the bank's rating agencies and all the different people in etween that were responsible. and somehow, i see people trying to get away from wall street and saying it's all fannie and freddie's fault. i understand there's some blame to go to them but the greatest thank you. guest: let me just address your first comment first. certainly, iibelieve in markets and i make no bones about that.

the heritage foundation believe in markets and we look for ways to make markets work and apply them where it makes sense. i don't see myself frankly as a republican as you saw in the -- i'm willing to blame republicans as well as democrats. there's certainll nough blame to go around in wearnlt as fannie's role in the housing and financial crisis, i think it is a little bit unclear what the ultimate cause was. a lot of people thought they were the major cause of the housing meltdown. and certainly, they were a major destroying force. you don't have that kind of government distortion, that sort of incentive to take risks in the marketplace without bad consequences frankly. and fannie and freddie were able to play with government money, knowing that the losses would be socialized.

the losses would be hand by the taxpayer and the gains would go into problem. that is not good for markets. and not the way markets should have worked. at the same time, i don't think that they were of the sole cause or perhaps a major cause of the crisis. there is a lot of things going on, macro economiccquestions and interest rates and money flowing in from china. frankly, i think there's also a nature, it's in the nature of markets to have an occasional bubble. markets learn from experience. sometimes i look at this and i think of the example of the early 1800's when the steam engine was first being invented. it exploded quite a bit. it was considered a dangerous invention and a lot of governments actually tried to ban it. thattwas the wrong response.

people learned to harness it. it is somethhng that is now inexpenseable for centuries. -- dispensable for centuries. one last thing too. you said that -- quite reliable and that's true, but now we are paying for that. $150 billion and counting. the largest baiiout in american history, i believe. you know, saying that things were fine until this happen is a lot like the old adage about mrs. lincoln who otherwise how did the play go? just say things worked about fine until the catastrophe is missing the point. host: georgia on our independent line. caller: i agree 100% with the

caller before me. i want to say your goal as being a conservative republican is to make the government look bad. ally greenspan testified before congrrss that fannie mae and freddie mac was just small part of the problem. the problem was a small part of unadulterateddgreed of the wall street bankers. they're the ones. fannie mae and freddie mac did not get any huge bonuses i after the bailout like wall street did. quit making our government look bad. our government is not bad. our government is for the people . and am sick and tired. let me tell you. the conservatives of islam are the taliban. is that what's going to happen to america what happened to afghanistan which was once a throbbing -- thriving society?

guest: well, i don't know where to start on addressing that. i made it clear that i don't see fannie mae and freddie mac as the primary cause, but to ignore them is qually irresponsible. we're dealing with a huge amount of money and a significant detrimental effect on the marketplace. i think the puzzling thing is why we have a 1,500-page financial reform bill hat goes the congress that does not address these issues? certainly, there are other changes that need to be made in the marketplace. fannie mae and freddie mac are not the sole issue. and i've addressed elsewhere what changes needed to be made + in the marketplace. i don't think that that is going through congress, the bill addresses those results. and, you know, you can say what you want about greed but i don't see greed as the cause of the financial crisis unless there's

some sort of change in human nature over the last 10 years that i don't know about. it's always been a constant. is. i think we do need to find a way to resolve, to liquidate and reorganize financial firms. that has been the heart of the problem. policymakers felt that there is corporations whose failure would have a serious adverse effect in the economy. the bill that's pending in congress would address that mechanism where regulators were making a joint determination about the fail and seize it. and liquidate it. i think that is not the best solution. it's a troublesome solution to me because essentially, the actions will be taken without a

body of law to guide them as to who gets the assets and who gets the liabilities and virtually no traditional supervisiin. my preference is to apply bankruptcy and tough have some amendments to the bankruptcy law. perhaps special chapter for financial institutions because there are some specific characteristics of hose markets that make ccrrent bankruptcy laws more difficult to apply but those changes can be done. and if you can get a closer mechanism that does have judicial supervision, that is based on a firm body of law so that equity and fairness can be assured. then we got a long way to solving the two bailout problems. so ultimately, there are changes in the marketplace and those changes have to be to allow big firms to fail. people can take risks. people can exercise greed in the mark place as long as they're playing with their own money. the problem is they have not been playing with their own money. and nowhere is that player is

fannie mae and freddie mac. host: off of twitter, someone asked -- guest: whatever you think about privatization, i don't see how the situation has improved when you have a situation like fannie mae and freddieemac where you have a private actor with i think everyone would agree that has the worst of both worlds. you don't have the constraints. you don't have the over sight or the transparency of the financial institution and yet all the access to taxpayer funds and governmental powers and unfair advantages to the marketplace. a government agency -- that a government agency does. model was ffankly the wrong approach and a recipe for

disaster that has come out of the oven fully baked now. host: staten island, new york. steve on our independent line. caller: good morning, gentlemen. i like to -- the heritage foundation. the biggest role in the united states is common sense. the heritage oundation is not either republican nordemocrat. they study the constitution and try to apply it to what's going on in the united statee. to try to pply common sense to the people that the previous callers have actually blown my mind. but they'll wake up. but as far as "the phantom" falcon, i pretty much watch the whole senate wall street regulation reform and that was a total -- it was a freak show. the end, just watching the senator at the end talking about

the last pages that they addedd on with these regulations where they can come into private citizens now. and just under oath now. they're passing this stuff. and i -- my heart dropped. my heart just dropped. he goes, you know, he's the nicest guy in the world and he goes i never get mad, he says. you -- they're just throwing their hands up in the air. what is going on here? i mean, it's just -- the arrogance, the arrogance of fannie mae and freddie mac being left out and ranting and raving, demanding this, demanding this. i don't see any other senators on that senate floor ranting and raving and demanding we do this and we do this. there's a timely.

to this. limit debate -- host: thank you, caller. .

and he was on record saying the+ problems were exaggerated. the congressional leadership missed the boat on this.3 others. witter.eee is trigge guest: implementing banks to pure banking and excluding them from other fields, you could make the marketplace more unstable. that is not a republican view or

an ideology of a free-market view. it is the view of many democrats legislation that aboliihed the class stiegel act. host: texas, republican line. caller: good morning. i am not surprised at the kinds of telephone calls you havv gotten up till this last one, because you are with the heritage foundation. i am glad to see somebody talking about fannie mae and freddie mac money on financials. i presume by the way you have seen the congressional staff

report of last year in july put together at the request of the congressmen where it points out that unddr the clinton and ministration, he established in national homeownership strategy in 1995. in the report, it mentioned that this group, this strategy praised lenders for developing innovative payment programs mortgages. i have read five books on this subject. i had a specific interest. the beet thing i have found, the most comprehensive, the least number of pages was this congressional report.

have you seen that? guest: in addition with what went on in the 1990's, we see certain things today where we tend to think of the current problems as a question of cleaning up the mistakes of the past. these are continuing to intervene on the marketplace. they are being asked by the administration today to undermine their financial stability even more. one modification is an offer that does not make a lot of sense. they want you to securitized loans that are not justified.

if you have seen the sec quarterly reports, they are making losses and have seen no possibility of economic prospects or losses for the indefinite future. there are efforts on behalf of or in sunspot -- support of the housing market, efforts debbs increase their losses these agencies are acting as tools of administration policy. what concerns me is the policies are being purrued in such an opaque way. they want to put them under

direct federal agencies -- not through control of corporations that are held [unintelligible] behind the scenes to a policy directive. host: democrats line. i do not understand you speaking against the glass stiegel act. i think he should read an article about describing the difference between a bashes government. i do not want to talk about that, but something else. a couple of months ago, fannie mae and was given a guarantee by the government. the wall street bankers were%+ taking off their toxic assets.

bail us out. .e have some incidences' can you hear me? on may 10, there was a crash. that turned around about the sameetime that bernie sanders said, i will change my position on this and will vote for it. on thurrday, the senate voted down the regulation. on friday we had a job in the dow. then another person says, i will

fannie mae has a $4 trillion debt. the wall street guys -- obama was the biggest recipient of aig campaign contributions. i apprrciate hearing would you have to say about it. guest: there was a fortune billion dollar limit that was stopped lass year. guess you can go higher than $4 trillion. there is a lot of blame to go around regarding the+ personalities involved. barney frank said a lot of things.

christopher dodd has come from a lot of legitimate places. i want to caution against making this too personal of an issue in this sense. i do not think that the problems you are experiencing is one died orrone person is a politician or private sector actor who brings a lack of ethics. if that were theecause of his problems -- it is policy problems. that is what we're having. we have seen a fannie mae and freddie mac as a free lunch, a way to subsidize the market.+ somee the problems are from a series of misguided policies and decisions.

and there. maybe less interesting for the headlines, but if we want to solve this, we have to look at the policies. host: one more call from pittsburg. the callers do not understand how complicated this problem is. it is on a number of different fronts.+ there is flat out corruption in congress. i have a couple of questions that get at the heart of the matter. why have knocked some people it is common knowledge that -pfannie mae and freddie mac wee in the hands of the democrats.

second, why are not the whistleblowers tightened up so that people do not go for retribution if they complain? lehman bbothers is an example. we need to tell people about repo 105. why isn't he protected so that if he is not fired or his career is straight line? host: we will leave it there. guest: i cannot speak to any liabilityyfor any individual. i do not know what he did in win. i favor strong criminal enforcement where it is necessary. i am worried about making that too much of a focus.

poor public policy decisions. that is the problem. they were legally authorized catastrophic in their effecc. let us pursue ethical violations in criminal violations and to reduce that. let us not forget they re actual bad policy decisions that we are in, and we need to address those.. host: thanks for your time. coming up, we will giveeand the founder and executive director of share our strength. the topic we will talk about is hunger in the united states. first we will take a look at the political news through political cartoons.

host: the founder and executive director of share our strength and joins us. tell us about those that go hungry in the united states. guest: it is a bigger problem than it has ever been.. we now have 40 million americans for the first time on food stamps. the recession has a lot to do with this. there are record lines at food banks. the unemployment rate is almost the greatest in 27 years.

people are going to be hungry in an economic situation like this. host: 10 states in the district of columbia, more than 20% of children fallen this category. guest: that is right. children are the most vulnerable. when you look at hoo to stuff a big problem like this, your so many americans unemployed and in p stressful situation. we have the programs in place both public and private. we ttink we can help over the next five years. host: the public programs do not meet the need. guest: many children fall between the cracks in public profit -- public programs. feedinn america and food banks and advocacy organizations -- they pick up a lot of the slack. the reason that kids are hungry

in the country is not that we lack food, for food or nutrition like health care were there is a big battle over it. the reason that the kids are hungry is because they lack this summer, 85% of the kids that are eligible for summer feeding will not be participating in the program. during the school year, the schools are open. we have school breakfass and lunch. you have to organize efforts like the parks and recreation department to open at sites like the boys and girls club. the district has serious poverty

issues. it turned away money because it did not have its act together in terms of organizing these feeding sites. kids who are in desperate need -- their development, there commented ability, -- cognitive ability,,it is affected. host: how can they fix this best? guest: gov. martin o'malley in maryland wants their state to end childhood hunger. he announced a partnership and cabinet.ther a children's they want to deal with children's issues and figure out the barriers to kids and rolling in these programs and not those barriers down. he will be on the air with a psa urging families to get their kids into a summer feeding

program. there are lots of things like ttat that we can do. and bank governors should take advantage of and lots of funding that exists at the federal level that they can brinn to ssates. host: our guest is here forr40 minutes. here are the numbers if you want to ask him questions. -ptalk a little bit about the areas. you mentioned maryland. is this more urban or rural? guest: it is across the oard. it is hitting almost everywhere. we ave problems in big cities

and in places llke the mississippi delta althat has ben associated with thii type of hunger and poverty. we polled 740 publlc school teachers. 63% ssid they were spending their own money every week to buy food for kids to take home on weekends. that was across the board. host: you announced a joint venture with wal-mart on this effort? guest: they announced a $2 billion commitment over the next five years to address hunger in america. child hunger is a piece of that. they will be supporting a nutrition education program that we run. the first lady as been very active on nutrition. these are ssues that are intimately related wiih each wal-mart has been a big

supporter of anti-hunger efforts. now they are stepping up, and hopefully it will inspire other companies to do the same. where you see hunger, you almost always see obesity among the same income groups and demographic groups. families, calories' are cheaper to buy than nutrition. chips and sodas, classic things like that are less expensive than nutritious food. we have tried to address that and create a program called cooperation from line. we have found that even low income families are desperate to feed their kids healthy food. they want the resources in the educational knowledge on how to

do that. michigan, democrats lil kitchens in the summer? they are sitting idle. guest: there are some schools that do that, but not a lot. there are complications with union rules and who will deal with security in the schools and maintain the kitchens. some places are starting to do that. that is an excellent suggestion. host: oregon, republican line. caller: i recently heard that we export one-third of the food we produce. the 40 miilion people on food stamps -- if you ended that prrgram today, nobody but go hungry.

we would not let our people start here in oregon. i can get a box of cornflakes for $1.29. there is an abundance of food in the thought that we have to have the federal government feeding yes or otherwise e will start -- theechildren have a lot to eat. they are eating bad food, but they are eating away too much food. when i started school in the3 illegal immigrants who were poor, they were bringing lunches -- we were sharing lunches. they had food.

their ribs were not showing or anything. the idea that the federrl government needs to feed us is ridiculous. we are exporting shiploads of a food. we have done it for decades. guest: we agree that we have nn shortage of food in this country. i mentioned that earlier. there are many communities that are not in the same position that may be yours is in oregon. i was in ohio last year. a plant was closed anddthey laid off 13,000 people. it was a very rural area. not just children but adults were coming to the food bank for the first time in their lives, they found themselvee without a job and no other place to turn. we have found that the federal

government needs to help bbnks or of most compannes, t comess up with hundreds of billioos of dollars. it will be very important to get a solution to this problem and get $22 billion in investing in education and economic opportunities which relate to hunger. it seems an expensive. host: how does the $22 billion a breakdown? guest: programs like school breakfast and school lunch, summer feeding, and after-school programs as well. these programs have existed for almost 30 years. there is an effort where increase in the reauthorization of child nutrition. most people ttink these programs have been pretty effective.

thh billion dollars in increase over the 10 years may be somewhat controversial, but we need to have a robust a bill in this way. host: what about getting people enrolled? guest: there is a big focus on access. one of the things that is proposed is what is similarrto what arne duncan has which is a list of the top programs of those states doing the best jjb of enrolling kids. senator bennett from colorado introduced an amendment that got accepted byythe committee that focus on this issue of access so kids that are eligible of these programs but not enrolled can host: house are local food banks

fiiling ii the blanks? guest: they have been hit hard. have been. they have found ways to diversify heir funding. ccmpanies become -- they are imposed on donations of surplus food. they become better managed and have less errorr and packaging p- sometimes they have less surplus food to donate. the walmart example is a good %+e. they are not only onating money food productt it is one of the largest grocers in the country and largest ii will be surplus food from wal-mart and will calibrate their roduction said they have the most nutritious. host: arkaasas, independent

line. caller: [unintelligible] host: you are breaking up. we will see if we can get to a better connection. jackson, mississippi, democrats line. there is a need in the delta. they are trying to get grants different states and cities have

not received what was sent out. many kids tearing the summer feeding program are not able to get there becauue of lack of transportation. how can this part of mississippi get some of the funding? there is a eed in jackson mississippi. hoo can we get access? guest: your question unddrscores some of the cooplexity with an issue like this such as3 program in place and the families aware, but theekids have to be able to get to these programs. this idea of a race to the top,

it is very important if you want to make a difference on an issue like this. i urge you tt be in touch with your representatives. this bill can provide transportation. the idea of a governor saying if transportation is one, let us it is very important. the bill has to work in the state and commuuity level.+ host: republiian line. caller: thanks for bringing this to the attention of the public. %+e nutritional value it bothers me. i have recommended for years to my local schools for children

with problems getting througg in the summer children to last through the suumer. creativity in america. guest: that is a great point. one of the greatest places we have ssen creativity is from chefs and others in the food- service industry. in terms of quality, there are shops all ovee the country who are getting involved and improvinggthe quality and nutrition level of school food. we have talked about this as+ something the government needs to solve. we need to cook the food

atrociously. there is a meeting ii chicago going on this morning of the national restaurant association. they're talking about raising funds and provide higher quality -pof food in ur schools. host: new york, ended in a line. caller: thanks for bringing up the topic. i am a pastor. i am disabled. i live on social security. i had food stamps until february. i have not has some of the food i was prooised. people cannot believe if food stamps are sent away. or pain the electric or the

phone bill. with all due respect, the reason that children cannot get to the food or have ffod access -- i was a peace corps volunteer. i am a%cornell of agricultural graduate. is that first, we do not have a good wage. the programs you're talking about are very important. we have a titanic problem. capitalism is no longer effective. we are still using statistiis that are 40 years old. new york only gives $225 for a rent assistance program with a studio is going for $1,000 a month. guest: i agree with you.

hunter is a sign f a deeper probllm such as poverty. is a sign of a deeper problem such as party. it it has beee an intractable symptom. when president clinton was in office and we had a burst of econooic growth, we will still living -- leaviig behind onee3 we have to grow our economy and make sure that we can grow in a quality -- the quali!!equality. it is very important for seniors such as meals on wheels. one of the things we did as a

society 50 years ago is to decide that seniors at the end of their lives, they should have something that would help them have a decent life at the end that is why we passed social security. when we want to deal with a group of people who are vulnerable, we can do that. we can create the system o do that. we cannot leave seniors behind. children should have some of the same protections they have. host: democrats line. caller: how to get america oot of hunger? who is the best person to help america out of this?

is it the government? is it the private sector? my answer to that is the parents. if thhy ould inccease minimum wage for every parent, they can work directly with their children. the parent can help save -- solve the problem. -pguest: i think it is all of te what is unique about this issue is that everybooy has a role to play. everybody can make a difference. be in touch with your senators and repreeentatives abouu child nutrition. volunteer. donate food or resources at a food bank. serve at a food bank. i was ii bosstn at a program

last week. it was creating a community garden next to a church. it was going to grow 82 bins of a fresh food that would serve the community. there are ways everybodd can get host: new jersey, republican line. caller: i grew up in a ilitary i went to several schools before i graduated. it was all over the country such as hawaii. i dd ot remember seeing any kind of hunger problem with all the different people. that includes down south. i believe the government

created this modern-day problem. i think the government has given money and food away to people. i think we would be much better+ oof and more people would be in better shape if the government got out of this completely. guest: you may appreciate a given year service to the country is theeorigins of the school breakfast and school lunch program, go back to 1946 after the seccnd world war when a number of generals and the peaders of the different military services came to congress and said our recruits had not been as strong as they need to be. they have not been as physically strong as they need to be. that was the impetus for school lunches and breakfasts. ttday some leaders are talking

issue. ttis was not originally thought as a charitable effort. it had a nntional security implicationn. it is important for somebody like yourself who serve our couutry to know. host: i had something on twitter but lost it. we will go to our indepennent line. caller: i am retired. there is a low income housing project. the average monthly income from3 dollars. a neighbor is handicapped. he gets less than $700 a month. $70 a month in food stamps. there aae many eople i know on fooo stamps.

you can buy candy,+ soda, but no bathroom tissue, laundry detergent, a lot of thingssthat are nncessary, you cannot buy. this needs to be run thought be made.gin and changes need to- guest: a lot is going into how to maae the food stamp program more efficient and effective. there has bben some abuse in the program in the past. many rules seemed unreasonable. it has gotten a lot better. now they can use the said farmers' markets and others, because there is a focus to make sure people get he most nutritiouu food in the most avers product they can get. host: here is a question.

guest: i do not know that for a fact. meals on wheels is supported by a lot of private funds. we have been involved on ffnd- raisers in many communities on it. it is a strong program. they always need more help. they only reach a fraction of the people they serve. it has not been one of the top areas for uts. host: today look at the locality level? look at the locality level? >> it is aavery diversified industry.. and here are many communities looking at some pitches -- soup kitchens in the basemmnts of

churches and things like that. other communities are asking what are the barrierr to our kids. they are coming up with community solutions. it has to be supported at the federal level but soft ttthe coomunity level. host: how much financial support to they get from federal sources? guest: in colorado, we had a conversation about that it was the 42nd lowest in terms of the percentage of kids eligible for+ school breakfast, but not%+ enrolled. what we found outtis it waa leeding $70 million federal money, already authorized on the table. they are bringing those dollars into the statee hostt rhodeeisland.

caller: since obama has taken office, he has increased the number of bases given each month. iiwould like to suggest that they bring in a doctor to talk about the fact that we do not lack workers. we ave tens cities across the country. outsourcing of more obs.he it is better if we have cheaper prices. no price is cheap enough. a legislative person i spoke with set up as racist.

we are all american citizens and we are being harmed guest: it is a complicated set of issues that you have raised. we have a situaaion where mmny businesses re ooking to produce products as inexpensively as they can. sometimes that is going offshore. i do nothing there is a consensus that we have all of the skilled labor that we need in this country. unemployment at 10%, the greatest in 20 years, we will not be able to solle that problem until we trade more jobs at home. it is not jjst a matter of of the says and people coming here. we haae to create induutries.

host: twitter. guust: it varies from community to community. there is flexibility in the region to decide what thh prices are. even food banks, in d.c., they sell the food to them. there is an actual market mechanism in place. host: claudia in connecticut our republlcan line. you areeon the air. go aaead.

caller: good morning. i have worked in nonprofits for about 30 years. the difficulty is the small community partnership, they do not understand these big federaa grant monies.should be made ease to gettthe money. opportunities to get the food programs to the people that nee. there are ways to get more access to the commmnity.

it would be really helpful if we could get the money down to the little guy. they know where the moneyyshouud go to. guest: we are trying to help nonprofit organizations mooitor this. one of the things that is exciting is that they are getting better at diversifying their revenue so that they are not solely dependent on charitable donations. some are earning revenue in creatinn wealth not just redistributing it. i call it community wealth.

it goes back into the communityd sign contracts to market these programs. host::the president will address cadets at west point in about 10 minutes. he is expected to address was in iraq and afghanistan. our guest is with us until that. independent line. caller: i have a question. i do not want anybody to go hungry. i am very generous. i grew up in rural pennsylvania. my family planted a garden in the summertime. we would have vegetables and fruits for the winter. i wondered if people would have a garden.

it would be more healthy for the kids. they would get exeecise ii the garden. some money. can we help people to help themselves?? guest: many people lived in urban areas. and it may not be enough. but as it may be a supplement

ffr people to grow their food that way by having a garden. host: barbara, democrats line. caller: this is an incredibby important subject. i live in a red state. after listening to a couple of callers, their opinions regaading why do we have to depend on the government? it has to be part of government and our community and local government. in idaho, the number of peeple

that have been going to the food banks has been overwhelmee. these are people that have taken ay cuts. the community here -- and the love the comment by tte man who said, we are not goiig to let the people in our state starve', together3 -- they got company, and had a ccstomers to fill up a huge loader. i would think you would agree%+

with what i am saying although it is mostly a comment. some people sound angry about why do our ax dollars go to this. guust: if you are worried about where your government dollars we talked about today.the things go down to your church basement, local food bank, community food garden, and talk to the people there.. understand why they are there it really can be heartbreaking. go to your banks, not to pick o+ the amount of money we spend on the society for food and -pnntrition for the most vulnerable people in our country, children, s just a fraction offthe federal budget.

guest: i think this is very important to them. one of the great things about the obama administration is the secretary of education, secretary of agriculture, and kathleen sibelius' havv all been involveddin hunker. -pthey have noo -- have all bee+ involved in hong there. we all need to work together on this and they have been a huge caller: tom, please, -- tell me, please, didn't president he had a social program.

is that correct? in the last 40 years, we have not won that war? we have not won the war after billions and billions and billions of dollars. socialist programs, we have not won the war on our own soil with our own people. whht makes you think that another $22 billion froo some while intended socialist program will win the war to date? guest: i am not the one who thinks it. the othhr important thing is that we have learned lot from both the successes and failures.

we have learned a lot from the successes and failures of sociaa programs. they're nnt a lot of people who look to our programs today and find the waste and abuse that they once did. we're not talking about inventing new programs. we have soluuions that work. let's get the kids whh need it into those solutions. host: tampa, fla., independent line. caller: good morningg a couple of quick points. if we're doing grrat with all of this, hoo come the largest seed manufacturer has now made arrangements and has for many seeds, it grows one crop? the plants that grow from those seeddsfor farmers to be able to

buy new seats. the ammunt of fiber and the nutritional content in the food that we grow has gone down since literally, the amount of nutritional value in a head of nutritional value in that same head of lettuce when you and i were growing up in the 1950's and 1960's. iitaae erious exception to you+ pelief that we do not have enoughhskilled workers in this%+ country. i haveeprobably a dozen finn american construction workers. 10 years ago, these uys are+ makinn 15 and $20 an hour.

now, they cannot even work in the onstruction buuiness because they're being asked to work at $6 and $7 an hour. guest: i appreciate the point that he made about seeds and nutrition. we need to supplement it with skilled workers and other fields as well but have to do with not just the economy. host: one last call. caller: it is abouu the malls

here. they raise the rent on the people who runntheir business. the late talk about raising a garden. the deer here are so dense that+ we cannot have a garden. -phhst: we have to leave it the. guest: he ppinted out why we needed to pulte -- focus on job creation in this country. -pwe have got to find ways to create jobs and living wages. host: thank yoo for your time this morning. andrew cuomo is making itt official he will not sit the new

york governor's job. the state attorney general postedda statement on minn friday. tomorrow's show will take place at 7:00. right now, we will take you to west point or the president of the united states is expected to address cadets ttere and to talk we will see you then. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [caations copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010]