lateryznm "washington journal" s next. . . host: there is a question about the civilian and military life.

we'll read some of what was written in "the washington post" this morning. we'll read what others have to say on this memorial day and get your opinions for the first 45 minutes. the numbers to call, if you're a democrat, 202-737-0002. republicans, 202-737-0001. i understand pentsdz and all others, 202-628-0205. soldiers reflecting a scene repeated numerous times across the country. civilian and military cemeteries alike. and later today, we'll have coverage of vice president biden at arlington and president obama at the lincoln cemetery in illinois. welcome to "washington journal." if you have made it through on the phone in the past 30 days, give others a chance to phone in this morning, and you can reach us by email. we'll read some of those and also at twitter.com, cspanwj is where you tweet us.

yesterday, the annual rolling thunder arrived for veterans, and a look at the front page of "the washington post" this morning, their look at rolling thunder, this photograph of motorcyclists coming in. in the background you can see the house on top of the hill, the house at the top of the hill of arlington national cemetery. also, the front page of the "washington times" this morning, and their headline of a veteran before the vietnam veterans memory daal is fallen hero, but not forgotten. it's inside "the washington post" that we want to start with our question from e.j. dionne. he writes about civilian and military life, and the headline of his piece this morning is "fighters in isolation." we'll read a little bit and get your thoughts and read opinion pieces on this memorial day. here's what e.j. dionne writes this morning in "the washington post" -- he said, why is it we note a holiday eight is a side has become instead an occasion for

beach-goings, barbecues and baseball? the problem arises because war fighting has become less a common endeavor than a special engaged in by a relatively small subset of our population.

host: our quest is, one, is there a divide between civilian and military life? if there is, how can it be bridged? we'll read more from e.j. dionne and get to your phone calls momentarily this morning as well. as we start the program this morning, we want to check the news that has happened overnight about the attack of the israeli military on that convoy bound for gaza. here's the headline in "the times" online, deadly clashes at sea as israel intercepts gaza-bound aid ships. also, we'll look at "the jerusalem post" and their story this morning, the soldiers were met by well planned lynch in the gazan warts. activists aboard a flotilla of ships on their way to the gaza strip opened fire on i.d.f. soldiers who boarded the ships to prevent them from breaking the israel-imposed sea blockade, the i.d.f. said auto monday. the international activists prepared a lynch for the soldiers who boarded the ships

at about 2:00 a.m. monday morning after calling on them to stop or to follow them to the port for several hours earlier. and just an update on that as well, there are reports this morning in turkey that there are about 10,000 turks protesting in front of the israeli consulate and that report this morning from the associated press. and we'll update that story as we get more information. "the telegraph" in london, their headline has the total killed in that attack, israeli troops attack ship carrying aid to gaza, killing 16. but on this memorial day, we'll start with plain owe, texas, and hear from dan on our republican line. welcome, dan, go ahead. caller: good morning, everyone. it seems to me that there is no real divide between civilian and military. after all, all of our military folks were extracted from our

civilian population. and i know in my case, memorial day is a very sacred day. my mother's brother was killed in baston during the battle of the bulge back in world war ii. i personally lost two of my best high school buddies in vietnam. and i can tell you that none of them fought, suffered, died only to see this country handed over to mexico without anyone firing a shot. it's just appalling to me. and you know, you have to consider, what would these guys have thought had they been around a couple of years ago to see 500,000 mexican nationals marching about los angeles, waving the mexican flag, and chanting. host: here's the front page of

the "miami herald" with grief still fresh. this is a story about an army veteran and the line here on the story, front page of the miami herald, for some young veterans still mourning their fallen comrades, the commemoration of memorial day shows the chasm between themselves and their peers. countryside, illinois, foyle our independents line. good morning, go ahead. caller: good morning. it's phyllis from countryside. host: oh, phyllis, go ahead. caller: the thing, is i've had a number of my family members fight. we should honor our men and women out there for this, ok? and there's something else, sir, i have to add to this morning. very important on that oil spill. the only thing that can stop that oil spill is silicone sand. it can be bought by the tons. they use it in manufacturing. i'm a land developer.

and what i want to tell you is it's the only product that can be put down there that cannot be dissolved by water. and yes, it will push against oil. host: thank you, phyllis. here's the headline from yesterday in the news that the top kill effort didn't work, "atlanta journal constitution." the oil may gush till august. phil in st. louis, democratic caller. caller: yes. how you doing this morning? host: doing fine, thank you. caller: i'm a veteran, but i wish i was on that flotilla headed for israel, because somebody needs to -- host: we appreciate your service. you called this program regularly and you violate our 30-day rule. we wish you would honor that. we ask callers to restrict their calls to this program for 30 days. there are other ways to reach us. each us by email, twitter.com, but for those trying to get through, when you come through and call every week or, so it's unfair to others. allentown, pennsylvania, here is james.

caller: hi. happy memorial day, everybody. i just want to to say i agree with the issue about the mexican illegals. i think if you look at a comparison, just want to say that real quickly before i make my point, 100 years after the great wave, there were hundreds of thousands of germans in the streets waving their german flags, demanding that there be a german language media and there be german language government services and other issues like that, the american people never would have tolerated that. we demanded total linguistic and cultural asam haitian as a price tag of admission to this country. we always had moratoriums that followed to cut the april ran strings of the old world. host: what do you think, james? you see a lot of this lately, where you see a lot of the new soldiers, many of the young soldiers that are in the service now are actually

getting their citizenship as soldiers. what do you make of their willingness to volunteer for the u.s. in that regard? caller: i think that's a wonderful thing, but to tell you the truth, there was a sharp divide, some kind of a possible war, hypothetical tomorrow, what would happen with those illegal mexicans? would they go back against their villages? host: we're asking about the divide between military and civilian life. we'll read a bit more from e.j. dionne's column in a moment. here's the front page it was "orange county register" in california. a tribute about a man in california who has created his own memorial day tribute, his own tribute to those who have fallen in service in iraq and afghanistan, and maybe the country's smallest memorial and its most poig can't beach memorial day weekend. a veteran puts a small cross in his front yard for a local service members who have died in iraq and afghanistan.

in five years, that number has grown to 48. we're asking you about the divide between military and civilian life. if there is a divide, our question comes this morning from the opinions of e.j. dionne. he writes this morning in "the washington post" that our major wars, particularly the civil war, which gave rise to memorial day and world war ii, were in some sense mass democratic experiences. they touched the entire country. the same cannot be said of our more recent conflicts. because it's been 65 years since we've seen anything like a mass mobilization, regular contact with our military is largely confined to the places where our men and women in uniform live. according to a 2007 defense department report, more than half of our home-based mill personnel, 54.5% of them, are stationed in california, virginia, texas, north carolina, georgia, and florida. 12 states account for 3/4 of our service members.

out of sight, out of mind is a terrible principle when it comes to honoring those who protect us, but is there any doubt that it applies? jacksonville, florida, go ahead to tom on our independents line. tom, are you there? let's go to morgantown, north carolina. democratic caller, arthur, go ahead. caller: yes, good morning. host: good morning. caller: being a veteran myself, one of the things that i really found hurting as a divide, the civilian life after the vietnam war, was that the government felt let down by them because of the medical reasons that were the same. when i went in, i was promised that i would have medical help practically all my life, but then it changed, and i had to end up being paid. so i said, now, how bad is it that now i have to pay for my

services, and i was willing to give my life for this country and how the civilian life is divided from the military life and why the military doesn't step in to try to help honor those veterans out there fighting and willing to give their lives just for some simple healthcare. host: has that gotten worse as the years have gone by, arthur? caller: yes, and the first thing when by to the v.a. hospital, they ask me, do you have any insurance? and that's just offending to me that i have to actually be asked this question. i don't want no free ride from the country, but it was a promise from the beginning, and i believe that civilian life, if you're a civilian, it divided us that we got in the military because we received those services at that time.

host: the president will be, after participating in ceremonies today at the lincoln national veterans cemetery in elwood, illinois. vice president biden here in the washington area at arlington national cemetery. texas, good morning to dolly, independents line. caller: i would like to say this briefly that i am a senior citizen and while there's no reason not to put out great respect for all people in the military, i have a position that is very, very anti-deifying or separating this different groups in our society. all americans are special. all of us are in this experiment of being a democracy

together. and even though the military has a particularly unique position in what they do, there is no reason in a democracy to deify a particular group, and that's what i think -- i work with people who have strong military ties in their family. host: right. caller: and they have an attitude -- i'm serious -- they have an attitude that they are better than everybody else, and guess what. they have perks like you wouldn't believe. host: you said they have perks like you wouldn't believe? caller: yes, income. host: and dolly, do you have relatives who are serving? caller: i do not. however, i have, from the past, from world war ii, i have relatives that came back and were shell-shocked. you know, they had post traumatic stress syndrome, and actually my uncle became a raging alcoholic and was mostly all of his life as a result of,

you know, being in that combat. host: we're asking this morning about the divide, if there is a divide, between civilian and military life. here's a view from albany, new york. sarah, go ahead, republican caller. caller: hi. host: sarah, make sure you mute your television or radio and then go ahead. caller: can you hear me? hello, can you hear me? host: yes, we can, go ahead. caller: well, basic on the this memorial day, i would like to say that i have a hearty thank you -- hello? host: we didn't quite hear you. what did you say? caller: i would like to say thank you to the peacemakers. thank you to the veterans of the peace movement. and thank you to all of those who have lost their lives for the freedom flotilla at the hands of israel, and that has so many u.n. sanctions against it and that no one is willing to confront. it's inhumane, and the regime is one that is murderous.

host: the israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, will be in washington this week, set to meet with president obama on tuesday, tomorrow. here's the headline of toronto's "globe & mail" in canada. netanyahu gets a warm welcome. it's made canada an important ally for the prime minister, in a photo of israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. civilian and military life, is there a divide? william is in washington, d.c. good morning. caller: good morning. yes, my comment is, you know, i think what has worked out to be this successful ploy to have young men fight old man wars, and that's been going on a long time. and i think around this time of the year, every year, we do a great job at emotionalizing and, you know, putting it out there like it's such a great thing to have all these functions for our soldiers and veterans.

and i think it's great, and i honor them, but i think we can even hear from some of the callers just how we treat our veterans when it comes to medical care and some of the things that we promised that we haven't delivered on as far as how we treat them, as far as difference than what we show at times like this. and i would like to think -- or he should say, like to see our country honor them more than just honoring days like memory memorial day, but when it comes to getting the things that we promised and, you know, treating them the way veterans should be treated, i think that that's where the rubber should meet the road. thanks for allowing me to make the comment. host: thank you. here's a piece by the rock star and outdoorsman, ted nugent, who is frequently read on the pages of the washington times and other publications. ted nugent writes about memorial day. the headline is every day is memorial day, we owe america's warriors who gave their lives for freedom. he writes the media overall has

done a grave disservice to our warriors and their families who have asked to sacrifice so much. the war is now barely covered by the media. maybe so-called journalists have forgotten. the media have a moved on. not me. i have chosen to dig in and never forget. want a day goes by that i'm not reminded it that america is at war. the cards, letters, and pictures and emails i receive on a daily basis from america's finest gold be me to be a better america, to be even more appreciative of the freedoms, liberties and opportunities provided me and you with the blood of warriors. these brave american warriors and the warriors who have gone before them humble me to my core. there are no words to express my appreciation for their bravery, commitment, and sacrifice, and the same goes for their families who have left behind to soldier on while their loved ones go off to war. god bless them all. we owe it to these brave americans and their families to win this war with our honor impact, not to telegraph to the enemy whom we are packing up and leaving the battlefield. and we will get an update from

iraq short until our next segment on the timeline, withdrawal timeline for u.s. troops there, as we go to huntsville, alabama, and hear from emil on our i understand penalties line. hi. caller: hi, good morning. thank you for c-span. y'all do an admirable service to the american public. i think there may be something of a divide, but i don't think this is as much as the editorial that you were reading from earlier. in fact, i think ted nugent's editorial is closer to the point. my point is i think while there may be a divide, there's not so much because the editorial refers to 50% of the military being located in six states. host: yes, yes.

caller: especially over the past 10 years, the reserve exone he want, including the national guard, has been used on active duty and service in combat operations, i think it's much broader than just looking at the till military. host: thank you for your opinion. he mentioned us reading the ted nugent piece. one person wrote, when did ted nugent serve? about 20 more minutes or so of your phone calls about the divide between civilian and military life. this is the opinion of e.j. dionne in "the washington post" this morning, reading a bit more from his piece -- the second war, second world

war produced the closest real to real social revolution that the country experienced in the 20th century. that war sharply reduced barriers to social and economic quality, who ch has stood for decades. there was a time when a middle-class nation came into existence. when the only redistribution of the national income in american history occurred. it was the great social revolution. bedford, texas, is next up, and this is robert on our republican line. go ahead. caller: how you doing? first of all, i want to say happy memorial day weekend to my uncle. so just wanted to let him know that happy memorial day

weekend. he served in the air force. so anyway, what i wanted to say is, there is no -- to me, there is no divide. i mean, i don't know why everybody's talking about that. he's a veteran himself and he's a great man. to me, he's my uncle, and i'm just going to say it out loud, there's no divide. i mean, military is military, and, you know, -- host: did you hear the opinions? a woman called earlier and said, it was her opinion that she sees people in the military, the people that she runs into, hold themselves up higher, like they're better than her. this was her opinion. i'm relaying it to you. do you get that? caller: no, that he wants the problem with our society. nobody's better than anybody. we're all equal. there's no divide. there isn't. i mean, if i had to get up and stand up for my country, i would immediately in a

heartbeat. host: yeah. caller: so anyway, i just want to say thank you, and happy memorial day weekend. host: los angeles next up. merv on our democrats line. go ahead. caller: yeah, there's a big dwismede as a veteran who uses the veterans hospital, many of those veterans the administration employees and health services work very, very hard, but our political leadership does not take care of the veterans. obama is terrible. you have to wait a long time to get an appointment. you have to wait a long time to get services. yet out of all the employees that are in the v.a., every single one that i deal with -- and i go to the v.a. hospital here three times a week -- are fantastic. there's a divide. veterans are on the the bottom. the political leadership just doesn't care about it. thank you. host: in the "new york times" this morning, they have a look

at what's ahead in the next step to try to stop that gusher of oil in the gulf of mexico. this is another attempt to cap the well. we'll take a look at this and read this for our c-span radio listeners. in the next few days, b.p. will try to cap the leaky well in the gulf of mexico. step one, they will cut off most of the 21-inch riser pipe still attached to the damaged blow-out preventer. the pipe will be removed by crane. step, two a diamond wire cutler cut off the remaining pipe. it will make the cut smooth and even. step three, a 21-inch riser pipe will be lowered from the discover enterprise drill ship. it will be connected to a dome that has already been lowered to the sea floor. robots will try to position the dome and the riser on top of the blowout, and the new riser will have a internal pipe capturing leaking oil and gas.

carol browner indicated we may be seeing leaking oil until the month of august. some of the some of what they had to say. >> the american people need to know that it is possible we will have oil leaking from this well until august when 9 relief well will be finished. it's important for the american people to know that we acquired, we directed b.p. to drill a second relief well to ensure we had redundancy in what will be the permanent coach. >> how much snoil >> when we cut the riser, our experts are telling advertise may be as much as 20% more oil. once they get -- >> than we have now. >> and that will be for a period of about four to seven days while they move the cap into place, which has been prestaged. two caps will be prestaged on the ocean floor. but we want people -- all the information we have, we want to make available to the american people. they have a right to know, and we're going to honor that. host: about 15 more minutes or so of your calls on the divide between civilian and military life talked about this morning

in "the washington post." e.j. dionne writes the ice lavings our military is part of a larger vulcanization of classes that have little empathy for each other. contrast this with what they write about in our response to world war ii. a nation was more completely united in purpose and spirit than at any other time in history. and dionne writes, it's hard to imagine we'll be united any time soon, but history tells us that the honor we accord our veterans is closely linked to the respect and solidarity we express toward each other as our fellow citizens of democracy. perhaps our veterans can teach us how to do this again. augusta, georgia, here's walter on our understand penalties line. go ahead. -- independents line. caller: hi. first-time caller. host: hi. welcome. glad to have you. caller: i'm retired military air force. i went in the military in 1953 and stayed until 1975.

now, that lady on the phone said that she thought we had more perks than civilians, and that's not right. i've been waiting 10 years, since i was 61, for my benefits from the military, and i've been going all the time trying -- i'm taking pills. i take 14 pills a day. and i still haven't gotten anything. they denied me three times. host: they keep denying you. what he wants the keel with that? caller: well, post traumatic stress, agent orange, a back ailment. first they wanted me to prove that i was in vietnam. and i was up in the highlands with the first camp, and i was a little on 123's picking live bodies up and taking dead ones back for two years. and now it's a whole lot of problems there. they don't want to give you this money. so that's all i have to say. have a nice morning.

type thanks for your call, walter. back to the story about the leaking oil well in the gulf. the leadership on that, this is a story about who is the point man for the administration. mixed messengers highlight the salazar problem. the white house failed to designate a single spokesperson, she writes, for the corresponding schedule of media updates to show the administration in action may have been intended to convey an all hands on deck approach to the b.p. oil spill. instead, it has created a public relations vacuum being killed by the critics of the president's approach. the one man who five mild that role, interior secretary ken salazar, already has had a pair of high-profile stumbles with not one, but two his comments, effectively retract from the white house podium. springfield, virginia, good morning on our republican line. go ahead.

caller: one, do you think "the washington post" will make an effective case in its reporting or in its opinion pieces for the reasons to keep don't ask, don't tell in there? two, have you read senator monahan's article in the american scholar defining deviant down? and have you read the book by professor hbdershot on "the politics of deviance." host: i have not, sir. have you? caller: yes. host: you want to go ahead with your comment? caller: what i would say is you see a divide. you see it at the highest levels of the country. as george will notes, you can legislate morality as we did with the civil rights legislation. you say the civil rights

legislation -- caller: they legalized prostitution in nevada, and there's definitely a divide between people that are still trying to have a sense of honor and morals as opposed to what are the elite and those that want to push an agenda. that was right before we went into vietnam where we talked about the earlier efforts to impose upon the mill tarry civilian norms when they are totally at conflict with what are, you would say, job-related disciplines and job-related needs. host: and the name of the book was "this kind of war," you said? caller: yes. host: richard, thanks for union input this morning. this is one of two articles about the apparent lack of presentation of medals of honor during the iraq and afghanistan

conflicts. this is a piece from the sunday "new york times" magazine, what happened to valor. since 9/11, the military has awarded remarkably few medals of honor. soldiers and their families are asking why. we'll pull this off and show you a short article in the magazine, a rare honor, the panel wants more medals awarded to the living. in reading agents bit from this, the u.s. has awarded 855 medals of honor, its highest award since world war i, but just eight in the 3 1/2 decades since the close of the vietnam conflict. each of those was awarded posthumously. the seeming disparity between the 246 medals of honor for service in vietnam and the eighth for military operations. a year ago, the house committee

report on the annual defense authorization bill directed the pentagon to study the system this. year, locking a report, house armed services committee reiterated the demand in its report for the annual -- the fiscal 2011 bill, the pentagon says findings will be available in july. and just a look at the chart of the medals awarded posthumously during each war, 1,522 awarded from the civil war. 32% of them are awarded posthumously. world war i, 124 medal as warded, 33 were awarded posthumously n. world war ii, 464, over half of them were awarded posthumously, 57%. in the korean war, 133 medals of honor presented, and 95 were presented posthumously. in vietnam, 2246, or 63% were a awarded after the soldiers' lives. and somalia, afghanistan, and iraq account for a total of eight with all of those having

been presented posthumously. kentucky is next occupy our democrats line. this is raymond. can you caller: hello. can you hear me ok? i've been listening to some f this, and i honor everything we basically had, was one myself, and i understand what everybody's saying. but what do you expect out of the car that can't even honor their president? you've got a bunch of them carpetbaggers or whatever you keal them. so that's all i got to say.

caller: i am pakistani. my husband came to the u.s. in very early age, and his father was out, so he joined the military. my stepson served in the military. and i seat diality of human nature, and i wonder, and i heard the chapel yesterday on book tv, he has looked into the book, will the war ever end? marvelous, marvelous book, and i wonder, the sacrifice, you sacrifice broadcast. in the name of god we have sacrificed our son and wonder this is ever going to end and will we ever -- if mothers will stand up? our mothers are motherly, are nurturing, caring, and read peace. my heart bleeds when i see the little boys, you know when i go to the military.

i see them going to die. it's just my heart bleeds. once in human form, it will change how to relief energy. thank you. appreciate it. host: mona from little rock mentioned a book she had seen something about on book tv t. our memorial day three-day weekend continues on book tv. lots about veterans and military service, including this author, who writes in the "new york times" this morning, an op-ed called an op-chart with the look at deaths from wars put in the arrangement of a flower dow kept. the author of a book called "on hallowed ground." that aired earlier today on

book tv. you can take a look at booktv.org if you want to watch it online any time. a look here at the death and soldiers missing in action. unknown from wars past in the u.s. much as we go to bell view, nebraska. oma, go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i've been in the military for 20 years. i'm retired air force. and i wanted to say something about military people, something that they're better than the community, the civilian community, and that is that we are wumped up. we are driven with pride. we are driven with the idea that we cannot fail. and a lot of this pumping up in pride, yes, it does lead over into our family lives, and unfortunately, the rest of the community. however, if we are not pumped up, and that ability to go

forth and to do dangerous things, dangerous tasks, we're going to be shot at, willing to move -- willing to kill or be killed. it's the job will never get done. i think we need to have some type of program. that was a drugly for me to realize that the knowledge that i have,the training that i have obtained, and the ability not to be afraid in whatever task i accomplish. it does show up as pride or really better than. i really had to work with that. so i would like ask anyone that said that, are you willing to go in the front line and shoot? are you willing to be killed? are you willing to do that? i ask herer to look at the entire aspect of the fact that you pride in most military people, you will not see that pride once they retire. it's a big struggle.

we do not get what we need to have a lot of the times when we're ill, when we're lose a limb. a lot of us have to struggle for. that i'm not going to go into the details on that. i'm just asking for the community to please look at the entire psychological aspect. host: and how long did you say you served? caller: i was in 20 years in the air force. i have almost 6,000 hours worth of flying time. host: what did you fly, what kind of aircraft? caller: five different types of airplanes out of communications. host: well, we appreciate you calling in this morning. we've been looking at the front pages of newspapers from across the country, many of which have photographs from ceremonies on this memorial day weekend. this is the "richmond times dispatch." we showed you a photograph a moment ago. i want to show you the headline that's in a number of papers too, the comments that we reflected earlier in the comments of carol browner, oil spill may flow until august is

the headline in "the richmond times dispatch." ed markey, the chairman of the house energy, the special energy and global warming committee, was on "face the nation" yesterday and talked about ex-fanneding possible criminal charges against b.p. here's what he had to say. >> yes, i do not believe that large energy companies should be able to escape having unlimited liability for the capacity which they create. that's something we're going to have to pass in congress, as well as the new innovative energy agenda for wind, solar, electric vehicles. we have to move a safety technology as well if the oil industry wants to drill in deep water. >> quickly, b.p., was this civil activity, do you think? caller: i think that, without question, if the word criminal should be used in terms of an environmental crime against our

country, that's what's going on in the gulf of mexico is going to qualify, yeah. scommoip we go to louisiana next. here's dorothy from -- district attorney ritter, louisiana? caller: yes, deritter, louisiana. my son went into the navy back there in that first war with the first bush, he went into the military. he was stationed in japan. they called him up and he we want over there to the war. that war, he was fresh out of high school. he went over there, and he came home. he had the ors black problems. he was ploge plaque stuff out of his note for months. i've never seen anybody caught prosecute. i had to get him to a civilian hospital because the military didn't hear about t. this boy

is messed up for life. host: so umming the veterans affair democrat -- >> i took him to the hospital in lapt on purpose. the little medicine they five him for it, i took him to a civilian doctor to get smf those stuff. because when they set everything on fire, he had mess coming out of his nose. he would blow his nose, and you're going to tell me they programmed these guys to go to the military? host: all right, dorothy. we'll get a couple more calls on the issue on the divide between the life. our piece is from a world war ii vet. ancient history from just yesterday. a few veterans remember the jobs that they did in a piece that's refliff are not fleffive who write before bar two.

we don't messly. we're below hunting park, fooling around and figuring out what to do for fun. during the war, we joined up, still frank and joe with the army. jimmy and i with the it -- brunswick, georgia, next up, and this is jane on our republican line. go ahead. caller: hello there. host: good morning. caller: when you read those two articles from the paper, one from e.j. dionne and the other from ted nugent, immediately a twitter came in and said to the conservative, ted nugent, when did he serve? well, what i'm wondering is why someone different ask e.j. dionne. would you check approximate that?

i'd love to hear about that. join knee vuss forest is orr. . i is a lulet all the vet waps out there on this wonderful monday that i think is most most sacred. i think the time was actually at the top. i tone, the take day, i see the don't tofse. host: was that the rolling thunder? caller: the one in washington, d.c. where we had all the of the bands, the military bands. and sadly, what was miss approximating was a command. he seem to be oil or and. i he guess around the world. that's more can people get our

meg tarry. i feel like i retired in 1975, with the minimum fism and i've never seen more people that loved this country. however, seems that our leadership has failed us in some cases, especially our commander in chief. host: let's hear one more -- thank you, richard. one more call here. laura in astoria, oregon. go ahead. laura, are you there? caller: yes, i'm here. host: welcome. caller: thank you. i see the divide most clearly when the young men and women who've been serving get out of the military and try to find jobs. the unemployment rate for military is much, femple for

than civilians. and i'm beginning to think phat, you know, it has to do with a knock of civil in the civilian population for getting out of the military. and after all of this we had being that thee preponderance try. so i think we need a new campaign, you know? give them a job. host: that call from laura in astoria, oregon. one soldier has taken to music about his experiences in the airplane, sergeant joe ruth, who has produced a video that we're going give you a quick sarm of and talk to sergeant bruce. his video is called "troops." it's a little sample here, and we'll talk to sergeant bruce.

a t host: that is the voits of sergeant joe ruth and his video "troops." we're going any the whole thing momentary, but we want to talk with sergeant ruth joining outs phone. sergeant ruth, welcome on this memorial day. we're glad to have you with us. we want to ask you, first off, what inspired to you create this video? guest: well, thank you very much, and happy memorial day to you too. you know, when i wrote this sto, so i wanted team pon how i felt about being a soldier, and i pride myself in keeping my

finger on the pulse of hip-hop and what goes on in hip-hop. it's the music of my generation. and as a soldier, i would hear the words soldier get thrown around in hip-hop, and i wanted to make something that communicates what being a soldier, what being a troop means, what it's meant to me and my service. host: well, i got to confess my less than full awareness of hip-hop music, so i saw the video and heard in that video what sounded look a very direct response to some specific things that have been said about soldiers. so what was that about? caller: it's nothing at all specifically said about soldiers, more about how freely we use that term in the hip-hop community. and when we do use that term in the hip-hop community, when someone says, you know, i got my soldiers on the street, you're not talking about people doing good things. you're not talking about people who are out trying to help

people and always trying to necessarily preserve freedom so that other people can do good thing. host: although it's your voice, you've clearly got a number of your fellow soldiers to participate, and you snk their lip-synching to you. how will were they to participate? >> we had to get them in their he happened of the duty. hey, man, when you're come, can you come shoot this? i chose soldiers for the eye who i think were feeling a lot of the same emotions about being a soldier. and were as proud as i was or, you know, i thought that their level of commitment and their level of resolve was on the level that i would want to feature them in this video.

host: we spent part of the morning talking about whether there's a divide between civilian and military life. do you think you were prying to bridge that divide here by letting viewers and listeners know your feelings on what it is like to be a soldier? caller: i think that not only was i doing it, but there's almost every troop wants to you realize that every troop is trying to create some sort of a divide, but at the end of the day, these are just people, and we romanticize sometimes, you know, what our -- who our troops are. the problem he has now, health problems. he's just a guy, you know? did he some amazing things for hi country, but at the end of the day, he's just a guy that needs help like everyone else.

host: what's the reaction? caller: nothing but s. it's a good song, and it's the sentiment of so many troops, so many good people, so many grateful, hard working people who are willing to put everything they have on the line if necessary for their country. the response has been absolutely positive. host: and how long have you been in the army? caller: i was in the army for six years. i actually was on stop loss the last two months that i was employed to bosnia and iraq in the beginning of 2010. so i am a veteran. i suppose i'm on what they call inactive ready reserve where the army can call you back if they really need you. but as of now, i'm a civilian, and i'm working to get myself a piece of that proverbial american pie. host: well, i think we have link to your video on our website. tell folks where them take a look momentarily, but is there a website where they can take a look at it?

guest: absolutely. i have that video on other website. the song is available for free download on my website, joeroos.com. host: we appreciate you joining us on memorial day, and good luck. guest: thank you very much. host: we'll give our viewers and listeners not only a taste, but a full look and listen at the video troops by sergeant roos. a take got thrown around so loosely that the meaning of it may have gotten per vefment i'm more than just a soldier. i'm a troop. while there may be similarities between the soldier on the street and the real troop, the main thing, the main thing is the difference is a troop does what they do for everyone else.

i start with hip-hop and not just in the sense that it's finished, but we're pushing it to the limit. by pushing against my limit. get it. while i'm giving it back, this is my equal and opposite reaction. i'm coming back on the track. and i guarantee you this is going to have a drastic impact. i don't play like a crook. my attitude is only hard because my position is up. so when i push it, i make it more the end and we'll know who the sentiment goes to. and when it's dated, the troop is motivated, we know our soldiers need it know that our families will make it.

and prove there was nothing to it. and that's the truth. do you hear me? that's the truth. highly motivated. highly dead indicated. the 34th infancy are you, that's the truth. loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, that's the truth. integrity, personal courage. that's the truth. aim on your left, right. left, right, put it all together, kick it just like this. hold up, you didn't even get the best sign yet. this is the start of a revolution. not a single one of you cannot corral. just move down, son, and soldiers stepping n. hip-hop needed to cure. won't settle in. we see it close. now reload to get it on.

we know it's gone. got our marching orders. it's want just a game, not done in vain for the freedom of speech. so folks, you talk about who we need to impeach. it's for the people, the ones who needed relief. and those at home who we hope are in the trees where they sleep. all the people we need and all the people we love and everything that we believe in below and up above, and that's the truth. that's the truth. i will always play it. i will never quit, never quit. that's the truth. i will never accept dweefment i will never leave a fallen comrade. that's the truth. do not listen to that. that's the truth. that's the truth.

>> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us from iraq on this memorial day is major general stephen lanza, the

director for strategic efforts in iraq, here to talk about and give us an update on the situation in iraq and the timeline for u.s. reduction in troops. general lanza, thank you for joining us on this memorial day. guest: good afternoon and thanks for having me on your show, bill. host: we'll remind our callers, we'll put up our phone numbers shortly. general lanza joins us from iraq. so a little bit of a delay when you ask your question. general lanza, i wanted to start out with the timeline withdrawal. vice president biden last week, in an interview, said that things were on target, the u.s. will reduce to 50,000 troops by this summer. that is a tall order. what is the biggest challenge you face in meeting that deadline? guest: first of all, i think we'll meet that deadline, and i just want to remind our listeners out there that this has been an area of process. from 2008 when we started at

the high point of the surge with 176,000, we have continued our drawdown in accordance with the security agreement that was established between our two countries, to we're roughly under 90,000 right now. additionally, we've already turned over 360 bases to the iraqis or closed those down, and have sent home over 700,000 pieces of equipment. so this process on responsible drawdown has been going on. we certainly see us meeting our goal of 50,000 by 1 september, but more importantly, it's about our change of mission. it's about our change of mission from combat operations to stability operations, and that's what it's going to entail as we finish our mission here by december of 2011, because we'll continue to build capability and capacity within the iraqi security forces and also help enable civil institutions. so right now we're on track, and we anticipate meeting those goals and objectives based on the mission we received and in accordance with the security agreement. host: in your opinion, how stable is iraq now?

guest: i think overall iraq is fairly stable. i was in ramadi last week. i was in mosul yesterday. and what i've seen is obviously a significant change in terms of how iraq is being secured overall. there are still challenges with some extremist groups. we have seen that most recently where we did have al qaeda attempt to reassert itself after the capture of omar and al-masri. but also, when you look at security in the context of where we've been in the last sn years, it is the most secure. we had the least amount of attacks since january of 2004. this has allowed the government to move forward with open election that is they had on 7 march, and it's also allowed the government to have a political dialogue and discourse as they work on certifying the election law and building consensus as they conduct a peace transition with the new government. we're optimistic, continue to put pressure on al qaeda as a network, and the iraqi security forces have shown their capability and capacity to step up and secure the country, most notably with the success they've had in 7 march and in

the recent operations against al qaeda in the province. host: we want to remind our listeners and viewers, our phone lines are open for your comments for major general stephen lanza. 202-737-0 02 is the number to call for democrats. 202-737-0001 for republicans. and i understand penalties and others, 202-628-0205. .

especially for their deep desire to serve. many of his new that the bush administration was lying the country into iraq because of what many experts were saying. i wanted to ask him about the misuse of our troops and a young man's desire to serve and how that affects them psychologically, knowing that they served in an unnecessary war. i also wanted to ask him about the deaths of iraqi people. many of the callers are virtuous, religious people. many people are dead in iraq

based on a pack of lies. how does that psychologically a fact them? >> if we get him back we can try to relate part of that message. next, independent line. bob, go ahead. we are still trying to contact the general. caller: our country is going broke. why can we not have some of that oil revenue to pay for troops in iraq and afghanistan? we are hilding schools for them in our schools are going bankrupt. host: do you want to reply to those questions about oil revenues? guest: if you could repeat the question? host: that is all right. it is a long hop, skip, and a

jumped to iraq. why cannot share in the oil revenues in iraq because most of the fighting is done? guest: they have already had two big conferences with major international oil companies from all over the world. this is not just u.s. companies, but companies from malaysia, japan, russia, china. iraq is going to do that. they are having a third conference for natural gas in september. they have made very good progress to bring in oil companies. right now we will start drilling in august. revenue is not instantaneous. key for bridging the gap is

private investment. that is what they are focused on right now, closing the gap on revenue and in some cases outpacing generation based on the 2011 budget. iraq has heard the demands and are doing a very good job to bring in international oil companies. security has been strong enough that oil companies can come in to generate revenue. >> -- host: another question from texas, critical on the entry into the war, asked about the psychological effect of war overall on the troops. what can you tell us about that? particularly in the morale of your troops, currently? guest: first of all, the human dimension of warfare always has a psychological effect. most of us here have been involved in conflicts over last

few years and there is more fair that will affect everyone. but what is important, regardless of the reason we were in iraq seven years ago, in 2010, based on the sacrifices of the men and women in service, iraq is that a point right now where they can move forward and build upon successful elections and the fact that they are generating revenue for the exploration for international oil companies. they have established over 57 embassies on the ground. this is an opportunity for iraq to move forward. i think it with the sacrifices that have been made there is a return on the investments in terms of what has been done. the american men and women here have done a superb job giving the people of iraq the

opportunity to move forward. host: los angeles, republican line. robert, good morning. caller: hello, general. host: go ahead, there will be a bit of a delay. caller: yes, hello? coast -- host: go ahead, there will be a bit of a satellite delay. caller: my question -- i am from the vietnamese, vietnam war era. i've seen no change in people coming back. they come back like spent shell casings. people coming back and having problems getting accepted back into society. is there something we can do? guest: i think that the people are already doing this. i have seen what the american people are doing to support our soldiers. i have been on the receiving end

of coming back to the united states, people welcoming us back regardless of how they receive the policy. i also believe that the united states military has done more in this war to look at posttraumatic stress syndrome, brain injuries, and what the va can do to support soldiers. all as a result of the sacrifices he made with at the military supporting individuals. more importantly we have seen the united states of america, regardless of political party, embrace the selfless sacrifice of men and women. host: the administration came out with their national strategy last week. reading about iraq and their executive summary, they write that they are transitioning into full sovereignty and responsibility, a process that

includes troop removal, strengthening a civilian capacity, and a partnership with the iraqi government and people. hearing that, does it make you feel your mission is on target? guest: it does in terms of where we are going in 2011. i think that what you talked about in the national security strategy, our mission is to help the iraqi people build civil institutions. we're working with them on borders to enhance its sovereignty. provisional construction teams in the state department are helping on issues of local governments. the state department is enabling iraq by partnering with them on strategic framework, so we are on track to do that. the state department is taking a larger role by executing

strategic partnerships as we start drawing down capabilities. more importantly, our capability is designed to build capacity for the nation. >> -- host: stanley mcchrystal yesterday expressed concern over clear evidence that taliban fighters in afghanistan are receiving training in iran. does iran have a presence in afghanistan? are they expected of aiding insurgency in iraq? >> i do not want to comment on afghanistan but there is an influence. are there elements that trained iraqi insurgents? we do find weapons smuggled across the border. specifically 107 rockets and

projectiles used for high heat attacks and indirect support from money and front companies attempting to fracture the government. this is recognized by the iraqis who are doing a very good job in the operations right now. more importantly, iraq deserves the respect of its neighbors as a sovereign country. iran or other regional partners, iraq is a sovereign country will have the ability to build their own security and generate their own sovereignty through military security. something that continues to concern us. host: tom, democratic line. go ahead. caller: thank you for c-span, always a great public service. thank you to the veterans out

there that fought in what i consider legitimate wars, like world war ii. i am 51 and i do not feel that there has been a legitimate war in my lifetime. i respect the military but i feel that we have been militarized as a society. iraq was a sledgehammer in a china shop. unnecessary, illegitimate, and there were other approaches that would have cost less death, both to civilians in iraq and the american military. host: we will get a response from the general. guest: well, i think to answer your question, where we are in 2010 is certainly different from where we were in 2003.

again, we can debate the reasons and the policies and i am sure that history will determine the reasons, but the fact remains that where iraq is right now, they have been given a tremendous opportunity. looking at the election they had on the seventh, they were the only country that could determine who they wanted to elect. if you look at iraq now compared to a few years ago, it has become a completely different environment. both from a security perspective, economically, and politically. that was based on a lot of sacrifice. i think it is important to finish the mission successfully, with honor, and give the iraqis the tools they need as we build strategic partnerships with them.

host: how difficult is it for you to translate the mission to the lowest rank officers? guest: they understand. what we're doing right now is enabling security forces. you know that we pulled combat troops out of the city on 30th and we are training, advising, and assisting iraqi security forces. soldiers, sailors, and marines, they understand the responsibility. more importantly they understand how to build in civilian capacity. we are also enabling others, like the civil reconstruction team, to build capacity. the change of mission is understood by everyone in the formation. getting the alleged leak from the soldiers on how they

understand the transition, we have been conducting stability operations for the last few months. it will be nothing new to the soldiers. but we do have the opportunity to continue helping iraqis. host: major-general stephen lanza joins us from iraq this morning, we have time for a few more calls. caller: what you have done in iraq since 2007 is very impressive. you deserve a medal of honor from living people. what are the lessons learned that we can transfer to afghanistan? there are a lot of different tribes with lots of infighting, and it is really complex. i was impressed with how you use walls.

what lessons did we learn in iraq that we could use in afghanistan? >> a great question -- guest: a great question. i do not want to compare iraq and afghanistan, but some of the things we can achieve is predicated on three main principles. first, the ability to secure the population is essential. second, creating a security force independent of political parties that support the constitution. we have seen that take fruition here. third, establish a government that can be responsive to the needs offthe people. this has taken time, but importantly the iraqis had the opportunity to vote on open lists and political leaders were

campaigning national unity. we have reached the point right now where iraqis see themselves moving forward as a country with collective agreements and what is best for the nation based on sectarian views when we were on the brink of civil war. host: john, republican caller. caller: when are the americans going to stand up to the iraqi president for their $30 per barrel oil for the rest of our lives? if it was not for the sacrifice of america and the rest of the coalition -- one more thing, how dangerous is it for these politicians in america to continue to back hamid karzai? who will be in charge once the

bad guys kill him? guest: can you repeat the second part of a question? host: there was a lot there. i would get you to more broadly focused on the politics of the situation in iraq. in an interview last week the vice president -- it was reported that white house officials were increasingly relying on politics. how easy or hard is it to give up control of things politically to nascent local organization in iraq? guest: people ask me if we are distraught with doing that but i think it is a part of the success. handing over control of the military.

we have seen the iraqis assert themselves. they have gone through provincial elections, national elections, established a budget. they're working on bringing in international oil companies. there is a measure of sovereignty that is in their best interest as a nation in the region. our job is to provide physical and psychological support. so, we are very pleased to do that. working on transition of the government, this is being done peacefully and through public for a rational discourse. iraqi security forces have remained committed to supporting the constitution, we have not seen the full mention of sectarian violence. as those things continue the iraqis have a tremendous opportunity to move forward and establish a country that within the region will probably be began for what is possible in

terms of being transparent in an accountable government. host: mr. stewart, democratic line? caller: i conceded your air cavalry and that you got your bones in vietnam. do you think that due to be -- it is a very different world after the fall of the iron curtain. in vietnam we never won because we were trying to use a sledgehammer democracy. communism did not work, i guess it's the work for china but do you think that we were doing a partnership deal in both conflicts? would there have been a different and to vietnam? is it just the way of the world today?

host: thank you, stuart. we will hear from the general. guest of the sacrifices made in the vietnam conflict have been able less to look again at conflict. it is important to note that it is not about winning the hearts and minds of the iraqis, but allowing them to move forward with economic and political stability so that they can make their choices on what is best for the country. this is never -- this was never about winning hearts and minds and having the americans assert themselves on this population. more importantly, giving them the opportunity to say that we have come extremely far in the last seven years, can we move this country forward? i think that they will do that

from the perspective of their best interests, iraqis taking more and more control of their sovereignty. most of the general began his career in kentucky -- host: the general began his career in kentucky. daniel, good morning. go ahead with your comment. caller: praised the military. he said they're trying to help iraq secure the border. we cannot even secure the border in the u.s. how will you be able to secure a border without people killing people? these people coming across our border do not even have guns and

[no audio] host: we will move on to the next caller. john, go ahead. caller: can you comment on what the american people should be thinking after hundreds of billions of dollars were spent in iraq and there were thousands of casualties? earlier you said that many of the oil drilling companies are from other countries. after everything that america has done, how is that fair? how does that make sense to the american people? guest: you have the opportunity for iraq to be stable. an opportunity for them to be a strategic partner with the united states after 2011. the fact that oil companies have come from all over the world has

made it known that it was not just about oil for the united states, but giving iraq an opportunity they have not had by and 35 years. it has always been about the fact that our sacrifices in the iraqi sacrifices, with a representative government they are held accountable. this is something unique in the region. the united states will be a strategic partner with iraq in the future and we have the opportunity to continue to partner with them as strategic partners for the future. once again, having been here before as others have, i have seen return of this investment. a few years ago you did not even walk around the area. you see the iraqis and securing

the borders much better than they have banned, going after the dam with changes in agriculture that were made possible by the abilities of the iraqis to embrace the fact that they can move forward. it encouraged by what we see, this is not over yet. again, iraq has a unique opportunity to take part and i think it is something we should be proud. host: earlier we ask you about stability. this e-mail -- is civil war likely if the u.s. leaves? would be intervene? guest: i do not think so. i think that a few years ago we were on the brink of civil war, but al qaeda has conducted some of their attacks from august and september to foment sectarian violence. i would argue that the population has actually galvanize themselves by not

embracing the fact that they have turned to al qaeda like in the past. a reconciliation amongst the su nnis, it has allowed the iraqis to gain significant military footholds. we have the opportunity to continue our attack against al qaeda. surly operations are down in terms of scale and scope. but i think of the security forces' ability to support them will continue to put pressure on the network that will allow the government to transition. host: a couple of more quick phone calls. springfield, illinois. good morning. lee, go ahead. caller: how are you doing? i really appreciate c-span and the work that the good general is doing. if i was there, i would shake your hand.

buckingham a vietnam veteran. but was wondering -- i am a vietnam veteran. these troops that of made their own way back from the war, i have a brother named david. he made his own way back from vietnam and never was reimbursed. guest: as far as reimbursement, the soldiers do it combat pay and hazardous duty pay, as well as other incentives. i believe that conditions in the terms of the way they are living has come far from how we were living a few short years ago. we have an all volunteer force with soldiers that are

compensated, but families are more important in terms of compensation, my thanks really go out to the families of the american people host: jack, new york. a quick comment? caller: i wanted to thank the general for his service. i wanted to respond to earlier callers speaking disparagingly. the troops that serve to that -- today are voting with their investment. no one was drafted. no one feels we are fighting illegitimately. we must keep in mind in respect all of the troops that are fighting are not being manipulated, they volunteered. host: final comment, general?

a response to the caller from new york? guest: what i have seen today is an example of sacrifice and selfless service. they are committed to the nation and its values. irrespective of policies of want to thank the brave men and women for what they do and i want to thank those that continue to thank airmen and marines. for all of those individuals and families who have sacrificed, sometimes paying the ultimate sacrifice, i would like to thank them for their commitment to support the greatest nation in the world. we have an opportunity in iraq to do something special and unique and soldiers are seeing a return on the sacrifices they have made here. thank you this memorial day for that support.

host: general stephen lanza, we wish you and your troops a safe memorial day and thank you for joining us. guest: my pleasure. thank you very much, bill. host: power program continues momentarily as we look at veterans of world war ii, particularly at the founder and president of what is called our flight, bringing world war ii veterans back to the nation's capital for a visit to the new world war ii memorial. first an update from c-span radio. >> the israeli raid in international waters to kill the 10 activists in an aid flotilla is drawing condemnation from turkey, france, and the u.s. envoy. greece has postponed a visit from the air force chief.

there are conflicting reports on the raid itself. the israeli defense minister is blaming the violence on the organizers of the flotilla. speaking earlier today, he called the aid flow to love a political provocation by anti- israeli forces. there were solemn memorial day ceremonies in afghanistan today as soldiers remembered friends and colleagues and commemorated their nation's war dead. this as government troops could be forced to abandon an eastern province. no word at this point on casualties. bp is making another attempt to stem the flow of oil coming from the gulf of mexico. this attempt is to contain the leak, not stop it. still, it could be august before

there is any real end in sight. finally, passengers said that everything was orderly regarding the man arrested between paris and mexico. u.s. authorities refused entry into aerospace. officials say that the arrested man had an outstanding warrants. the airplane eventually flew on safely to mexico. those are the latest headlines from c-span radio. >> success. i guarantee you that someone you know or love will come to you and say -- will you address the graduates at my college? [laughter] >> today commencement addresses continue from leaders in the arts, sports, education and the scientists -- sciences.

>> david cameron fields questions from members of parliament in his first "prime minister's questions." wednesday, 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> with more broadband the businesses will relocate there. is that crucial. >> tonight, jonathan adelstein on "the communicators" on c-span 2. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us is earl morse, the president and co-founder of what is known as the honor flight network, dedicated to bringing a world war ii veterans from their home towns to the nation's capital to see the memorial out on the mall. what inspired you to create your organization?

guest: at the time i was on a panel and 300 of the people there were world war ii veterans. they are part of a different breed. i have personally found them to be the most humble, appreciative, stoic and patriotic people i had ever met. in 2004 when the memorial was dedicated i gave them congratulations. they said they were glad that they had won, they wished their friends could have seen it as well. they were my patience and i was seeing them six months later, nine months later, none of them

had been to their memorial. being a private pilot i am one of the largest airlines in the country, in ohio, we started in on this idea of flying about personally. the first flight was in may, it was the 21st. 2005. host: one year after the memorial was dedicated. guest: little airplanes at first. we went from 12 little airplanes flying 22 veterans every month. my mother told me that we were getting more applications than that every month.

many of them are active duty, although some of them are retired military. they were excited to see their memorial. we had all kinds of volunteers. the sad part is that some of the veterans were in wheelchairs'. they would call to ask if we could take them. i would have to say that i am sorry, unless you are able to climb in and out of the aircraft you will love be held, on the chartered planes. they would tell me that i was the last chance. so, i started looking at commercial carriers. veterans in wheelchairs', not an issue. host: we have video here on the screen of veterans arriving at the world war ii memorial.

how does this work? caller: -- guest: through donations. we have 96 cubs right now. and once they're up and running they have to raise their own funds and the overwhelming majority of donations come from individuals. perhaps an individual whose grandfather or father was in world war ii, they will make a donation because it is important to them that another veteran is the chance, even if their family cannot. host: we have phone lines on the screen, and a special line for veterans. 202-628-0184. earl morse joins us until 9:15 eastern this morning.

what is the size of the world war ii population in the u.s.? guest: it was 7 million in 2000. now it is around 2 million to 3 million. but i would imagine that only half or a quarter of them could get on an airplane. caller: is this -- host: is this keeping you busy full time? guest: ijaz for the past few years. but i am loving it. host: do you still get a chance to fly some of the veterans in

your personal aircraft? guest: unfortunately it is -- those days are over. it takes a lot for a pilot like me and over the past few years i have not been able to. host: are you just working through the carrier's now? guest: private pilots would be able to participate in this effort. how they would be utilized really depends on where they are located. guest: we have a link to your -- host: we have a link to your web site on the screen. rochester, new york. go ahead. caller: we have an organization here as well as school teachers who have gotten children involved.

they call it mail call. are their efforts to get more school children involved to pass on the legacy of the world war ii veterans? guest: there is. funny that you should mention those letters, they are probably the most significant things that veterans carry with them in a flight. i have been to viewings where veterans have passed away. those letters will be in their hands. they read those letters over and over again. quite often it moves them to tears. host: wisconsin, democratic line. caller: i was wondering, do the

veterans get like a retirement package? after serving them o? guest: not to my knowledge. i would ask any veterans to contact your local veterans' service offices in your county or state. host: cleveland, good morning. mike? caller: i would like to bring up something that is terribly important. pow's, we just got done bailing out the banks. $1 trillion to build a truck company in russia? our soldiers, because we have not declared war, are not

eligible for the geneva convention. be a nom, cambodia, they are still locked up and we have deserted those people. host: you are suggesting that there are still pow's for more more ii? caller: yes, if they are not dead. host: earl morse, any knowledge or awareness of that? guest: i do not know. i do know that world war ii veterans were turned over by the germans and the japanese. and host: so, i do get pretty familiar with the world war ii memorial. dedicated back in many. compare it to the others in washington. why is it special to you? you are obviously not a world

war ii age. guest: [laughter] thank you. positioned between the washington monument and the lincoln memorial, a significant to wallace. we believe that the washington monument represents the birth of this nation. to us on the flight of world war ii memorial represents freedom for the world. the pacific is free, and thank god america is free. it did not just happen, these people made it happened and to have a memorial that recognizes that is important. if it was built on the white house it would still not have a more significant position of honor. host: your veterans come in over commercial carriers. where do they stay when they are here? hotels? guest: we are very fortunate in

that most people fly in from east of the mississippi,, and during the morning, leave that evening. -- , i,come un during the morning, leave that evening. but we are very grateful for the lodging we do get in the area. host: washington, d.c., go ahead. caller: world war ii, what was at stake for america, we had to learn from world war ii one. we have this terrible tragedy and i feel so sorry for the man

that had to serve. but the american flag is not represent the people, it represents the corporate elite. host: you ever speak to veterans that think of it as a mistake? guest: absolutely not. they fought for the blessings and liberties that we enjoyed in america. a lot of shipping was being sunk by enemies of the coast. the japanese hadn't entered alaska, which was a territory of the time. i do not ever recall a veteran saying that we should not have been over there to secure those

blessings in liberties. host: did you have a father or close relatives serving in the war? guest: my uncle. growing up in an air force family like that, you develop a real sense of appreciation for service and sacrifice. host: e chicago, joe, democratic line. caller: good morning. and i basically wanted to thank this man for what he is doing. this morning we are getting up in the riding in honor of the men that served. my father served in world war ii. he was in france, germany, normandy. he has passed away.

i miss him a lot. the veterans have done so much for us. we need to do for them. host: thank you for the call. guest: i agree, joe. i hope that your father was able to see the memorial, but if he did not i personally believe that every time i will war ii veteran dies this country becomes a bit more shallow, a bit more selfish. world war ii veterans are incredible people. i agree with you, we simply cannot thank them enough. host: boston, bobby is on the independent line. caller: good morning, c-span. mr. morse, there is nothing more

important than what you are doing. one of my uncles, have you in the last couple of months taken any flights out of boston? my two uncles, one of them had his face blown off and was in the water for who knows how long, they are both pushing 90 and 85. local news crews saw them off, stayed with them. i believe it was your organization. let me tell you something, i have never seen these two so happy to go down there. one of them is very close to death, michael charlie. i believe that this is one of the last things he will have.

look, i agree with you on a lot of wars. thank you very much, c-span. at the memorial day to all of the troops. thank you. guest: thank you for your comments. in just one of the people that got it started rolling. across this country we have so many volunteers. out of boston we have a volunteer named joe. it was hbo that approach does to bring in 200 world war ii veterans to the premiere of "the pacific." host: here in washington? guest: here in washington.

i would imagine that those with the fights you were talking about. host: a story this morning, like walls was attempting to visit every vietnam veterans memorial in the country. here's a look at one eye and its bird. further down the column, 200 for vietnam alone. and new mexico, mississippi, taking a look at those places as well. what is it about war memorials that has magnetism for people like this? guest: world war ii veterans, they come out here for two reasons. they see how this nation is going to recognize their service. equally important, if not more important, they want to see how their friends will be remembered.

their friends that never made it out of the plane. they want to know how their friends will be remembered. so, there is an attraction there. as well as a tremendous sense of camaraderie. many vietnam veterans participate in our flytraps to honor world war ii veterans. -- flight trips to honor our world war ii veterans. a vietnam veteran pushing it world war ii veteran in a wheelchair, comforting them, going to the vietnam memorial. you will see the vietnam veteran shedding a tear and the world war ii veterans will comfort them. there is a brotherhood and sisterhood of conflict for armed battle that extends many

generations. it all comes together here in washington, d.c.. host: another call from washington, good morning. caller: good morning. you have done much to help many of the veterans. this day is about the ones that never came back and lost their lives. i appreciate c-span and all that they do. my question, my wife's father is 86. he is a prisoner of war battle veteran. he lives in the chicago area. he mentioned that there are 9600 hubs. i guess, my question is -- what is the one closest to chicago?

can i go on line to fill this out? i would hope that he would be able to do this. he is very healthy and active and has been telling his story since he retired as a schoolteacher. what could i do to get this ball rolling for him? of guest: thank you for your comments. first of all, when you talk with this gentleman, please tell him thank you for his service. secondly, we have a phenomenal of operating out of chicago. you mentioned the the 9600 hubs. mary is doing a great job of there. i would ask that you visit their web site. chicago on our flight -- honor

flight. toyota regional program page. and -- go to the regional program page. filling out an application is the first step. you can find them online. host: in the midwest this morning, jesse. good morning. caller: i wanted to talk for a minute. i am so happy. i went on that flight from iowa. i was on the second group that went. there were two airplanes fall. -- full. there is one thing that stuck in my craw, i was in the u.s. navy during world war ii. the 99 to read tales that were in the army air force, tuskegee

airmen, they never got credit for not losing an airplane to german fighters during world war ii. they blew up a lot of bombers. the aircraft pilots, you never lost any to german fighters. that has been overlooked. because we wanted to put the glory out on the great hollywood heroes and stuff but none of them were in the war. they were good actors. we have to have good actors. i think it is important and i think that the stories of these people should be told. this was brought to me by another veteran from world war ii. he said that if the story was

not told -- i forget the name of the place in missouri. branson, i think. he said that the story had to be told. the veterans wanted to tell lead but the newspapers and news media were afraid to touch it. host: we appreciate your call. guest: you are absolutely right. the tuskegee airmen that fought in the south of europe did an incredible job. two weeks ago i was at the world war ii memorial. one of the men there was a top turret gunner. i asked him how many missions and he said five and that he was shot down on his fifth. he said that they conducted the first daylight bombing over berlin and that they lost 68 points.

that is over 700 lives. you are right. to go from losing 68 and other exports, they were able to support the be-17. those farmers were escorted by the red tails. not one was lost. and i agree with you, i do not believe that history hazen of courtesy to not only the african-americans that served, but the japanese that served in europe. host: stories that need to be told, do you find as you do these flights that you are hearing stories about units and individuals that have not made it into any kind of history so far? guest: we do stories that have

never been told, which is incredible. quite often the world war ii veterans, home to talk about it. but their family will tell you that they would wake up in the night, screaming. back in the 1940's they did not have posttraumatic stress disorder. they did not talk about it at all. host: is anyone making an effort to get those stories? a couple of years ago i remember there was an oral history project under way. guest: for any family member of a veteran, i encourage them to contact the department of veterans affairs. there are a couple of groups out there attempting to support your

it -- oral history archival. host: branson, missouri. caller: my grandfather was in the airborne. if you read the history books it shows that they did occupy. my grandfather claimed that they landed two weeks before the fight was over. rarely did he ever talk about it. we were watching a show of the year before he died called "the return to the was the month -- iwo jima." the only time i ever heard my grandfather talk about that was when he said to me that he knew where the bodies were. the only thing he ever spoke about of it.

a lot of veterans alike that. i am the commander of the post here in nebraska, and we have been providing comfort. so, i kind of new his point of view when we made those comments. i also wanted to let you know that there's a lot of information that can be obtained from the veterans' service organization web pages. across america people can go out of the web site and look at the battle monuments commission. thank you for letting me on the air to talk. thank you, sir. guest: thank you for your service.

it sounds like you are extremely active in your community. people do come back and might not be aware of their privileges. host: next up, ohio, republican line. rick? go ahead. caller: ok. host: you are on the air. . .

the employees are more veteran- centered and focused than i have ever seen. gueshostcaller: she works in the fiscal office. as a vietnam-." veteran, i really appreciate what you are doing. we had close friend who took one of the flights to d.c. he has several awards and metals as a world war ii veteran. it meant a lot to him. he was at the battle of the bulge. we are very grateful for what you are doing. it brings a little bit of honor and glory to the town where we live. we thank you for your services will. have a good day. guest: 80. as a vietnam vet, welcome home.

my father is a vietnam veteran. he did not get a welcome home when he came back from vietnam in 1969. i want to thank you for your service. host: do you have medical staff accompany them if they have medical problems? guest: we are on thin ice promoting ourselves as providing medical coverage. that means our people would have to get approved. in order for them to be protected by good samaritan laws, we do not need to promote ourselves as providing medical attention. there are doctors, nurses, p&-- emts on all of our flights. guesthocaller: i have many famiy

members in the military. we've gone through cycles of going to the veterans administration hospitals. in the process, i have met probably hundreds of veterans and heard their stories. i have sat with them. i want to encourage people. if you cannot get people on the honor flight, go to the nursing homes. go to the veterans to administration. talk to them. their stories are amazing. they are treasure troves of wisdom and honor. i am having a great time talking to these mostly old guys. i know the library of congress has project going on collecting and reporting these stories. but i want to tell you a story. when i talk to these old

gentlemen, we know our soldiers have honor and integrity. when i would ask them about the iraq war, these guys would start bollinawling. not only about the willingness of people to serve, but also about the misuse of that service. i want to encourage people to go to these places and talk to these incredibly wonderful people. guest: i could not agree with you more. when the veterans come back from one of our honor flight chips, six months or two years later if you ask them about the highlight of the entire day, and you would think it would be visiting the memorial or camaraderie with other veterans. the most memorable part of the entire day is when complete strangers came up to them, show their hand, look them in the eye

and said "thank you for what you have done." you hit the nail on the head. going up to anyone 80 years old and telling them thank-you means so much to these people. host: we have ^ on the line for veterans -- karen on the line for veterans. caller: i am and 80% disabled veterans. i want to thank all of my comrade veterans for their service,, particularly mike cold war era sisters whose involvement has been dramatically underrated. horrible things happen to them and also to the vietnam veterans for the way they were not embraced for their service. i am worked up about this. i have been watching the program all morning. i was in world war ii, a korean

combat veteran. my brother served about eight years. i served just short of nine active duty years. it is almost easy to pick up other veterans, especially those who are elderly because they are males. the females and not as easy to pick out. our service does not seem to be important to people, what we did. that was to support the constitution against all enemies. it was to keep them safe in their beds at night. they did not even know that we were standing watch. we served in silence and were proud to do it. i have two honorable discharges. i was in the army during two different times. service in vietnam was brand new for women in 1978. i went in again in 1988. i served until 1992 during the

persian excursion. guest: i could not agree with you more. when we do trouble with female veterans on our trip, we make a point to point out to the crowd that this is not the spouse of a world war ii veteran. this is a world war ii veteran. i agree with you. i do not think the history books of looked in favor -- have looked in favor, they barely touched on the service of minorities and females during all of the conflict. host: good morning to shirley from ashland, new hampshire. caller: i guess you could say that i am of the world war ii generation. i graduated high school the we'ryear the war ended in marrid veteran. i am sure it is obvious watching

this that these veterans are very touched and grateful for this memorial. but when they came home, that would have been the last thing they ever thought of. they were just doing what they felt had to be done. a few years later, they did get a bonus and were very grateful for that. but they did not do this -- a memorial, they never would have thought of it. it was just that they volunteered, they were drafted, they did their duty. host: is your husband still alive? caller: he died 27 years ago. he was connected with the knowledge they -- enola gay. host: thank you for calling in this morning. we have to carry on the democrats' line. let's go to merle in gaylord,

mich.. caller: i am so happy to get through to c-span. i want to congratulate the gentleman who is so diligently working for our veterans. i also want to thank c-span. i have been trying so long to get in. my husband was the last of the rebounds during the war. he transferred to the 10th mountain division. he served in italy and austria. he was very proud of his service. the american flag has never left our home. it has fallen continuously. i continue to fight it. -- it has flown continuously. i continue to fly the flag. i am surprised at how many homes do not fly the flag as we travel the country, especially on memorial day. as i look down my street at the

flags that are hidden in not display. i want to thank the veterans. i am on a fixed income, but i do what i can to help our paralyzed veterans. i send in every penny that i can spare to the hospitals of our boys. i thank them very much from the bottom of my heart. i of two sons. one is in the marines and the other is in the air force. i want to thank everyone in the country serving our country. my husband was very proud to serve his country. god bless all of you. host: thank you for calling. guest: thank you so much for your comments. i want to echo those as well. when you mentioned the 10th mountain division, i cannot help but think of senator bob dole. he served in the 10th mountain division and was badly wounded in italy. senator dole is down at the world war ii memorial every

chance he gets to welcome the veterans. senator elizabeth dole is also down there to welcome the veterans. right now, senator dole is over in walter reed recovering. he is doing very well. i want to say "thank you" to the doles and all of the combat veterans who are over there at walter reed. host: a believe that senator dole was one of the speakers at the dedication of the memorial back in 2004. you can take a look at online. it is available in our video library. if concerts for world war ii programs. i am sure that on is in there as well. it has not been that long, in the last year or so, that the last world war i veteran died, both here and in the u.k. as well. when that happened, what thoughts went through your head?

guest: when i was working for the va in dayton, the french foreign embassy went around. they're giving medals to world war i the actions. this was in 1999. the call went out asking for world war i veteran patients. we were able to find two. one had advanced alzheimer's disease. he sat in a wheelchair oblivious to what was going on. that left one that could appreciate this. i think that this country when it comes to world war i and ii have fallen way behind in properly recognizing these people for their efforts and sacrifices. now it is coming around. i do not want the world war ii memorial to be something that looks more like a tomb or mausoleum simply because there are not any world war ii veterans there.

about one to 2 million veterans across this country, and everyone of them deserve to come and see the memorial. in another 10 years, they are gone. host: evansville, indiana, the morning. this is rose on our veterans line. caller: i am a navy veteran. i was in from 1943 to 1946. also in the cold war. host: where did you serve in washington? caller: in the navy department. host: right on constitution. can you tell us what you did? caller: i worked the code machines in the confidential coatrode room. host: you cannot tell us too

much. [laughter] caller: it has been a long time to remember too much about it, but i worked the machines. guest: when you talk about unsung heroes, rose, you are one. thank you for your service. host: we want to thank you for stopping by this memorial day. we have the link to the website online. we're going to turn our attention to the military academies and talk to bruce fleming who is an instructor and professor at the naval academy. he wrote an opinion piece that it is time to change the mission of the military academies. first, there is a news update from c-span radio. >> the obama administration is now voicing concerns over the israeli commando attack on ships carrying pro-palestinian

activists on a mission to bring aid to the blockaded gaza strip that killed at least 10 and wounded dozens more. the white house spokesman said the united states deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries sustained in the incident. mr. burton also says administration officials are currently working to understand the circumstances surrounding the tragedy. president obama has been pushing for a renewal of the peace process. he is due to meet in the white house this week waith netanyahu. he also has a scheduled meeting with abbas. norad scrambled a pair of f-16 fighter jets yesterday over chicago. a cessna 150 aircraft violated a temporarily restricted flight zone near the residence where the first family is spending the

holiday. it was intercepted and instructed to land at louis university airport in illinois where it was met by local authorities. no other details are available on the incident. around 1:00 eastern time, president obama speaks of the degree of lincoln national securcemetery near chicago. south korea it is increasing efforts to convince the world and its own public that north korea sank one of its ships. they are sharing evidence with russian torpedo experts. finally, pakistan has lifted its ban on facebook. officials from the social networking site apologized for the page been insensitive to muslims and removed the content. many muslims regard predictions of the prophet mohammed to be

blasphemous to those are some of the headlines on c-span radio. >> this weekend, march the nussbaum, the university of chicago law professor has written or contributed to more than 20 books on liberal education, ethics, sexism, and legal justice. join our discussion on "in the" -- "and in depth"on sunday. >> it is stressful for us. we admire our colleagues. we wonder if it will ever be the same. i have great admiration for the system. the system works. after the appointment and confirmation process is finished, the system will bring us a very good justice. >> with the confirmation

hearings for elena kagan starting soon, learn more about the supreme court. there are pages of candid conversations with all of the judges, active and retired. the provide unique insight about the court. it is available in hardcover and also as and e-book. >> success is hoped for but never really anticipated. when success comes your way, i guarantee you that someone you know or love will come to you and ask you to address their college. [laughter] >> commencement addresses at 3:00 eastern on c-span. >> "washington journal" continues. host: bruce fleming is a professor of english at the naval academy. we turn our attention to the

military academies today. we asked him to be with us because of a peace that he wrote in "new york times." "marched toward mediocrity" is the name of the article. why do you think the service academies have lost their way? guest: i have been at annapolis for 23 years as a professor. i have constant contact with the students and administration. we are approaching 3000 students. i have had time to test the waters. the problem with the military academies is that they burnout their students. for me, that is the thing that is most hurtful. my life is these midshipmen. the purpose of the academy is to create effective officers to lead military people.

we seem to have a clearly negative effect on our students. because the lives of young men and women will be in the hands of my students will graduate and become officers, that is a huge thing. it is a major problem that we have. the academies were created in the 19th century when the assumption was that you had to make officers the way we make them still of the academies. but the world has changed since the 19th century. rotc has specifically happened. the academy's now produce one officer in five in any of the give and services. we are a tiny minority. rotc programs produce twice as many as we do at one/for the overall cost. the question then becomes whether our officers are any better. this is anecdotal. there are some ways of measuring this. i have read studies on this. there has never been a

conclusion that the academy graduates were better. they will tell you they are better. some of them well. that does not play too well in the fleet with the rotc-trained compatriots. it does not play well with the unlisted people. they call them "ring knockers." in the 1960's and 1970's, the preponderance of naval academy graduates in the flag officer rank was huge. it was huge. now with rotc and other commissioning services, that is diminishing. there is some suggestion that they feel bonded together, it was literally a band of brothers by then. but there are a lot of other sources now. that is diminishing to the point where it does not seen the

advantages going to be held in the future. host: we have opened up the phone lines for viewers. we're talking about the service academies. bruce fleming has spent 20 years as a professor of english at the naval academy. here are the numbers to call. i believe we are keeping the line for the military, particularly for people who have attended the service academies. i wanted to give folks a little flavor of what you wrote in the "new york times"a week or so ago. you say that they produce burned out midshipmen. they come thinking that they have entered the military camelot, and find a maze of petty rules with no visible feature application.

what did he mean by the term "military disneyland"? guest: it is not clear that what we do has any real fleet value. i would argue it does not. most of the students would argue that. when you go to paris disneyland, you do not go to the real paris. we put on super parades'. there are all sorts of rules about how they comport themselves on campus. they cannot walk and talk any cell phone. the tourists will not like it and so on. a lot of what we do is faking it. it really burns the students. these are great kids.

host: what about academically? do they cannot well-rounded in terms of their military skills, it's common and liberal arts education? hostguest: have a very strong ce curriculum. they have to take engineering. there is a broad variety. a lot of civilian campuses have given up on the idea of core curriculum. i have argued that academics are compromised by the fact there is a much mickey mouse stuff going on. host: also raised concern about recruiting. something you have in common with other colleges is the recruiting of athletes.

how is that different from 15 years ago? guest: it is getting worse. everyone agrees that college sports is getting professionalized. i disagree with that. be that as it may come a private university can do with it once. this federal money. that is what you have to understand. the military belongs to all the citizens of the united states of america. the tax payers are paying for it. the question becomes how it is mission effective to have a football team that can beat notre dame. how does it create better officers? it does not. it takes the time and energy of the kids that we recruit. we do have much lower standards

for recruited athletes than for competitive students. host: bruce fleming is our guest talking about the service academies. there are five. one was founded in 1942. west point was founded in 18 02. the naval academy was founded in 1845. the coast guard academy was founded in 18 semi-6. the air force academy was founded in 1954. -- because guard academy was founded in 1876. caller: i am a naval academy graduate, 1969. it costs more to put someone through the naval academy than rotc. that is one factor in the equation. if it costs more, but more academy graduates stayed in for a career and rotc guys are going through to get their education paid for, it costs less to put them through rotc, but they stay

in a shorter time. if he repeatedly spend less money but spend it more often, does that make the academies cost-effective? guest: have heard that argument. it is an interesting one. i have read studies that acknowledge that there is a greater tendency to stay in longer if they attend the academies. the study put out by the navy supply school said it is not clear whether this is an effective the academy's themselves or the type of person that they attract. let's just postulate that we send everyone to rotc. let's say we get out of the business of undergraduate education. for those who do have the intention of staying in longer,

would they not stay in longer if they went to vanderbilt? the study comes to the conclusion that we have no evidence that is true. it is true that right now, they do tend to stay in longer. it is not clear if that is the effect of them being in the academy. host: jim from new york is on the democrats won. caller: the morning. do the military academies give a decent education on history? there is a book about a popular history of the united states. with the ever have any books in there that questioned some of the more idiotic wars we've gotten involved in in our lifetime? that is what bothers me most about the military with those impressions.

guest: the naval academy is different from other service academies. we have always had civilian ph.d. professors on the faculty. we're left alone to teach what we want to in the classroom. i do not know that i talk about the most idiotic wars, but i do question the choice. we talk about it on, the good and bad parts. i personally do that. i am sure that people in the history department do as well. the administration is very displeased with me for writing the kinds of things that i write. is there an attempt at censorship? yes, i have been disciplined twice by the current administration of the academy. the first was financial. the newly arrived dean announced he was not going toward me -- reward me with merit pay steps. i published an opinion piece in the "annapolis capital" in june

of last year. it was hours before the end of the fiscal year that these pay steps were voted for. he moved me from two down to zero. he was very open about the fact that that was why he was punishing me. also filed a whistle-blower complaint. host: bruce fleming as a book coming out this summer called "bridging the military-civilian divide." we talked about a little bit earlier in the program today. it will be out later this summer. he teaches english at the naval academy. you wrote that you have taught english class'es where the pace is slower and the papers are shorter than in the usual seminars, the students to complete them get the same credit. when i complained, some have argued that academics are irrelevant to being an officer .

>> these low-track english classes are midshipmen were not meeting the standards of admission? guest: that is right. you have to understand we have a couple of groups of students that we admit. we have the competitive students who are probably what the public at large thinks the military academies have. they are bright and dedicated. then we recruit for other things like athletics. the academies on a huge affirmative action kit. what i am arguing is that it is illegal. we have a prep school in rhode island for the naval academy. we send the kids that we want to come to annapolis were not qualified there for a remedial

year before they come to annapolis. we have pre-college english. with a pre-college calculus and so on. -- we have pre-college calculus and so on. you may say there is nothing wrong with the extra help. with the taxpayers' money, we rejected the applicants. we claim we get 10 applications for every slot. we have rejected many find guys and dolls who could have made it way over the bar -- many fine guys and gals who could have flown much higher. i think that is something the taxpayers need to be aware of and appalled by. host: raised concerns about the naval academy. are you hearing from others in your position and other service academes? guest: yes, i am.

there force and army are the largest. some people have said that things are not as bad at their particular academy and so on. i am taking it on board. i do think maybe annapolis is having particular problems them because everybody progress the same football players. they play against each other. that is not the issue. i do think the affirmative action thing has taken off their and away it may not have elsewhere. host: bob is on the line from rockport, n.y. -- go ahead rob. caller: a call to disagree about football. i think it builds morale and camaraderie. i am now agreeing with him about the affirmative action. i agree. he is absolutely right about that. you should not lower the bar to let other people in and keep more qualified people out. while i initially called to

disagree with him, i am now agree with him. guest: i appreciate that. i am a professor. my job is to take the opposite of what ever you say. let me do that. on football, i am 100% pro football or any sport that you can name. what i am against this recording people who only have that specialty. -- what i am against is recruiting people only have that specialty. the issue is not football or no football. the issue is how far down we go in recruiting athletes. the thing about affirmative action -- the issue is in an age of no drafts and a completely volunteer force, we have about a 40% in listed rate. the brass are not wrong to say we cannot have an all white officer corps. that will cause problems. they create a problem by the way

they are addressing it. right now, we have about 20% non-white officer corps. no one i have had any contact with in the fleet says that is a problem. we do need officers of color. we need qualified officers of color. what i hear over and over again is that what people in the enlisted ranks want is an officer who will not get them killed. i am fully behind equal opportunity for everybody. i am a registered democrat. i will let you been to things a little bit -- bend things a little bit. you create a pool of applicants and take the black guy over the white guy. what we do is take people who do not meet the standards are now. host: go ahead, john. caller: this is wonderful hearing the professor today.

i was at the naval academy on a presidential appointment from eisenhower in 1958. it was exactly the same problem he is talking about today that was occurring then. i objected. my father and uncle and cousin army colonels. they forced me to go there like john mccain's father forced him. our families were stationed together. after i left the academy, i attended maryland university with standing hoyer -- steny hoyer. my friends have done well. it was admiral rickover who said in testimony before the u.s.

senate armed services committee -- he was the father of the nuclear navy. he testified a year after i left that there were these bad things that this professor was saying about the academy. the naval academy was producing the worst of all of the officer programs, the worst officers. host: his colleagues suggest nothing has changed. guest: i have only been there 23 years. i was born in 1954. i do not go back to the eisenhower fine. i think we have loaded -- we have had football forever. football was not as professionalized in the 1950's. it is much worse now. all of the other colleges are

going much further in their recruiting. we feel we have to as well. the larger question of if it is appropriate to produce officers with what i call the situation of micro-control that we do have at the academy and not at rotc, we do not have evidence it produces better officers and is more expensive. why have them at all? i am supposed to be the big picture guy. why do we have them at all? caller: i am very familiar with the affirmative action. can he comment if there is any legal remedy on the horizon? of ruling forbade a second track. a school could consider diversity but could not have a said it will retract of standards for minorities.

it is essentially a second track for minorities. that is my first point. the naval academy prep school was originally envisioned to take fleet sailors and make them ready for the naval academy. now it is not the case at all. it takes regular civilians and has them and list with almost a sham enlistment and go to the academy to the detriment of the veterans. i will take my answer of the line. thank you. guest: i agree with him. every word out of his mouth is true. the naval academy administration kicks like a steer whenever i use the phrase "two track." i have got a huge amount of blood that.

i have taken off the table. i can show you that the. school -- the prep school is almost 50% unqualified, and prepared racial minorities and 50% recruited athletes. host: you did get some will talk about your op-ed piece. i want to read this and get your reaction.

what is your response to his critique of your piece? guest: would be surprised if he wrote that himself. he has a staff of public affairs issues that see their job as putting a good news of the academy. what is he supposed to say? i do not even have to respond to it. it is absolutely true that we graduate many fine men and women. the issue on the table is not whether he believes that we fulfill our mission. it is looking at the competition. that includes rotc. everything he said about the officers coming from the naval academy is equally true to those coming out of rotc.

he is not running the ship. tenured professors are off the firing line except for the ball back with disciplinary actions. we are supposed to ask the big questions. i do not fault the admiral for having someone write that for him. what else is he supposed to say? that is why i said the change will not come from within. that letter has emphasize exactly what i am talking about. these people stay for three years. the superintendent's stay for three years. there is a constant in and out. they come in, make big mistakes, and leave. host: that incident -- considered to be a plum assignment? guest: it is. in the mid-1990s, they added the terminal appointment. we have heard of superintendents who got that after being passed over for

chief of naval operations. it is kind of a consolation prize after the cna. host: good morning, carolyn. caller: you say the academy is practically worthless. the people in there are ignorant or something to that measure is what i have gotten out of you. if they are, i want to know why they are not used in our border security. maybe they will learn something as border patrol keeping the sovereignty of our state. i know the democrats are against sovereignty in united states of america. host: to be fair, i do not think he said they were worthless. guest: i do need to respond to that. there are some wonderful guys and dogals.

many of them are fabulous. many of them make it officers. we are very expensive and we are taxpayer money. when taxpayer money went into aig, people realize we should have a say in this because it is our money. it has always been your money in the academy. we live in a democracy, thank god. the military works for civilians. the purpose is to defend civilians. civilians need to take an active interest in how it is produced. that is the subject of my upcoming book, "bridging the military-civilian divide"that will be out in august. my website is brucefleming.net the civilian world has to understand how the military works for them and the reverse. host: we have about 50 more minutes left for phone calls. we go to houston, texas. steve, on the independence line,

go ahead. caller: this is the best conversation i have heard in some time. i want to know a couple of things. how do we win the war against our enemies? then i want to know about the day and the military issue. -- the gays in the military issue. if someone wants to fight for me, go ahead. the other thing is how to protect our borders. i thought after 9/11, we should protect our borders first. host: that is all little off topic. with issues like this, but it was among the key defense issues being discussed on last week. are the midshipmen able to be

critical of broad policies like that and what you are talking about in terms of the policies of the academy? are they able to express their discourage -- concerns and displeasure over policy? guest: i have to go slow with that. i have a syllabus to follow. these are skills courses that i teach. i cannot spend all time just talking about the naval academy. when it is possible, i did make time for that. i do have a comment on gays in the military. i wrote an editorial for of with the baltimore sun" about six weeks ago. i sometimes ask people to spend 15 or 20 minutes with my freshman on topics that are of interest and then they write about them. it is related to the course. a couple of years ago, about a

gentleman who teaches at the university of california. he has been studying the question of what happens when don't ask, don't tell is lifted. we had a great discussion in class. the students for evaluations of its and ask why we do not have them more often and at an academy-wide level. the short version is that as always, i am the guy in the middle. i love the independents' line because i was it independent for years and are tired of not having a primary to vote in. i wrote the book "why liberals and conservatives clash." i am in the middle. i respect both and try to get the edges off of the extreme positions. it looks like lifting don't ask, don't tell will happen. i think it will cause problems.

there is no way it will not cause problems. they are problems which can probably deal with. we will deal better with a much talking about them. that is what is not happening. i see no effort on the administration's part at the academy to have a forum where students can talk about it. who are the marines going to want to follow up the hill? they may follow a gay guy if he is earned their respect, but maybe not. there will be issues. i would say they are not deal breaker issues. i have some experience with this. i had a gay brother who died of aids in the 1990's. i love him. he had a very difficult life. i am very sympathetic to gays and lesbians who want to serve in the military.

the other side is you take straight people who are not comfortable with them. you do not talk about it. it makes the issue worse than it has to be. host: we have someone on the line from massachusetts. where did you go to school? caller: i did not go to the academy. i am a world war ii veteran. we have a camp at great lakes -- had a camp that great lakes. it was one of the first ones to admit blacks as seamen instead of attendants. i want to ask mr. fleming if he ever read the book "the golden 13." it is a book he should read. it was the first black naval officers in world war ii.

one of them happened to be my commanding officer in okinawa during the war. i would like for you and other people listening to seek this book out. it was written at the academy. colin powell prefaced it. host: go-ahead. caller: i think you are pinning the athletes to broadly. i was a qualified alternate. i spent most of my youth trying to get into the academy. coming from a state as large as new york, i have three political options. the test i took for the entrance exam back then was the hardest test i took bar none out of national merit and the sat.

had to be qualified or you were not getting in. some people may be getting a pass. a lot of people want to go there who are as qualified as anybody else and just happen to live in the wrong place at the wrong time in terms of getting a political appointment. hoguest: that has changed since the 1960's. we do not have a separate test. the number of people qualified to are rejected is much higher because we have these political or athletic agendas. we cannot take everyone who is qualified. they say that harvard to make three or four perfectly good freshman classes of the people they have to say no to. we cannot let everyone in. that is not the issue. the issue is to get the most qualified people coming out on the other end and commissioned. some people are rejected. as a taxpayer, that is not my baby. host: here is your conclusion.

you are right that we have two choices. one is to shut down the academ es. the other is to embrace the standards. bruce fleming is with us until 10:00 eastern. go ahead with your comment on the independence line -- independents' line. caller: i did miss part of the program. have you ever been in a program

rotc or attended one of the academy's as a student? are you just an independent college professor at the academy? guest: the latter. caller: have you ever participated on the sports team during your lifetime? guest: feel there is an agenda in your questions. caller: a think nothing has been touched here on the fact that you can go to school and get straight a's and have a lot of knowledge, but i do not believe that makes you a live person. guest: have been on the admissions board at the academy. i have voted on who gets in. the students that we reject or all-around great. they have to do well in athletics, leadership, and academics.

i feel that you are trying to go in the direction of saying that i am just an intellectual who does not have a sense of the needs of the navy. i am sorry to say that you are wrong. that is just not true. host: sheldon from peoria is on the democrats' line. caller: i really liked the idea that you want much more qualified people in the academy. i think we should stop recruiting in under-privileged neighborhoods. let's just go to harvard and mit and see how many of those kids can make it through the academies. who will the grunts follow up the hill. host: you mentioned that the british use sandhurst as a post-academy system.

guest: i would have to look into it. i did do some research recently. both at sandhurst and dartmouth, the students range in age from 18 to 35. using the one year to several years. they have gotten out of the business of combining an undergraduate education with the military. that would be one option for us. nablus is beautiful. i love it there. -- annapolis is beautiful. i love it there. the issue would be that it may make more sense to do it kind of eighth rotc think where they do not have this mickey mouse stuff that is not military. let them concentrate on the academics. obviously they go out and get drunk and colleges. but let them grow up among other things. then you can send them to an equivalent of a commando school.

that would be one option. host: have you seen many veterans of iraq and afghanistan come through? do they get admitted to the academy after service? guest: yes, my hearts go out to them. i have had combat veterans in my classes. one of them was absolutely on the money. he knows the deal. we do get combat veterans. i had the great joy of watching our graduation last friday. i watched it private in listed marine who was in arabic major. he went to damascus on an exchange program. he graduated. he is going back into the marines. he was wearing his marine uniform. that step this makes my just pop out of my academic -- that just

makes my heart pop out of my academic gown. caller: my brother went rotc at villanova. there is a negative culture of the ring knocker culture. guest: i did touch on that. caller: i missed that. guest: is one of the negative things. if you ask those who went to the academy's if they are better officers, some will say yes. they will say this because they went for a lot. but you have to ask if that makes them better officer. the ring knocker thing is one strike against the academies. caller: i am getting the biased side from a rotc person.

basically what they say is that the academy grads are fantastic, but there are guys who come from states where there are political appointments were specifically the athletes. this is going back 20 years. they are not a very high quality. host: are all the folks who go to the caacademy appointed politically? guest: that is a miscommunication. everybody has to get nominations. ever since i have known anything about the process, the nomination has been a pro forma add on. it cannot get in without one. that comes after the rest of the admissions process. if the academy once you rigid wants you -- if the academy does what you, they will give you a

nomination. the superintendent has 50 that he can just hand out. it is still part of the process. but compared to the 1920's and 1930's, that is not the way we work anymore. host: the last call is from rochester, n.y. good morning. caller: i am marty in the combat veteran. i got out in 2006. i had 30 years plus with 10 years broken. i got back in on 9/12. if there is a critique that you have to get into the academy which i have been too, might nephew graduated as a marine. why do we always -- it does not matter if you are black, white, yellow. what difference does it make? i do