of the justice department about the violence against women. "washington journal" is next. . .

on the front page is an editorial.

that is what we want to ask you, whether or not there should be a moratorium on drilling in the gulf or whether drilling should continue. you can see the numbers on the screen/political affiliation. please allow 30 days between your calls. the debate on drilling involves both the white house and the republican senator, republican governor of louisiana. debate on drilling in the gulf heats up. the president believes we must ensure the bp deepwater horizon

spill is never repeated but louisiana gov. bobby jindal says prohibiting deepwater drilling could cost the state up to 6000 jobs this month and 10,000 over the next few months. in "cq" yesterday -- in a blog a post on thursday, senator david vitter, a republican, complained the moratorium will cost the state thousands of jobs. we will start with michelle from buffalo on our republican line.

what do you think? keep drilling? caller: i think we need to keep drilling until there comes a time automobile makers can come up with a fully alternative solution to cars that run on oil and gasoline. i think instead of a moratorium, what needs to be done is they should make it mandatory for oil companies to have -- i believe there is a cap that they can purchase that will shut off a valve or a pipe when a leak happens. i think instead of having been stopped altogether, the government should make it mandatory for companies to get back. it costs a half a million dollars for the peace but on the long run it will save the money for clean up and fixing leaky pipes. host: winston-salem, north carolina. caller: i think we should not keep drilling. i think it is really dumb for someone to say to continue drilling in the gulf.

they have no control. they have done no scientific research since 1979 to stop this kind of catastrophe. they have done nothing except a figure out how to get deeper but nothing to control the mishap that is happening right now. no, we should not continue to drill. host: lake orion, michigan. laura, republican. caller: i think what we need to do is -- i understand we need to drill, but i think that before we go back to that, we are really going to have to think about how this happened. we are going to have to really understand it and make sure it does not happen again. this is just a disaster of such huge proportions, and it can't be undone, and we don't want it

to happen again. i know the chance is very remote, but we do need to think about these things when we are out in the gulf because this is our water and our land that is getting destroyed. host: coast guard saw potential threat early -- this is from a "the new york times" article.

belfry, melissa, a democrat. caller: i am so grateful for c- span. during the dark days of the bush administration you were the only ones to shed light on the whole political process and i would like to say, thank you so much for all of your wonderful service to the american community. the other things i would like to say, a lot of times when you don't get calls from this side of the country, it is because all of the lines that feed into washington are already jammed. anyway, thank you so much. host: what about drilling in the gulf? caller: i would like to see all

of our financial resources -- and we can provide jobs with the new green energy. i was up in montana and they have all of those wonderful -- where they have the great, big, huge, air turbines. americana, we can pull out of this. let us pull together. we can pull out of this. my sincere feelings for the gulf coast -- but we can pull out of it. we can use to -- use a new technology to clean it up. host: new hampshire, drew, independent line. caller: i have not spoken to you since california. let me put my book down a little bit and talk about louisiana. if they drill the wells of the deep border situation -- the gentleman from bp did not sound

surprised. obviously this creates attic -- added expense. i believe this is the only way to guarantee a fairly quick response, they will have to do a double drill. let me address louisiana in general. louisiana -- and i spent a lot of time there, colorful fall, a wonderful place, great history. but the state really wants it all. they need these jobs. they have a wonderful fishing industry. just like alaska -- it could be a park, but they don't want to be a part. if you want it all, and then you have to fight against nature with hurricanes, they are really a microcosm of the world, in a way. the g-20 does not work, either, because look at bp's response.

host: stephen in tampa. republican. caller: the people that made that mess -- there would be plenty of jobs just to clean. get it nice and clean before they think about doing more drilling. host: thinking about -- speaking of cleaning it up and who is paying for it. here is a full-page ad bp took out in "the washington post." we will get it done, we will make it right, is the main tagline. but in the body of the text, it says -- and this is written by bp, again. we will honor all legitimate claims, we will continue working for as long as it takes, and our efforts will not come at any cost to taxpayers. greenbelt, maryland, democrat. do you think we should keep drilling in the gulf?

jay? we will have to move on to break into, florida. margaret. caller: are those people crazy out there who are saying to keep drilling? the only reason the louisiana politicians wanted to keep drilling is because they accept money from the oil companies. what about the money that these people are losing now from losing jobs and resorts are dying down there, and they are talking about the minuscule amount of jobs that oil drilling does? and what about the death of all of the wildlife suffering, coated with oil. of course, we should not drill. host: this is a map from the national oceanic and atmospheric association. it was updated this morning. you can see, this is where the blowout occurred, 52 miles off

the coast from the venice, louisiana. and all of the blow around there is the oil slick right now, it is where the oil is spreading. this is updated every couple of hours. john, democrat, eureka springs, arkansas. should we keep drilling in the gulf? caller: absolutely not. i want to make a couple of points, if i can. in 2005 i had a liver transplant and i am medically retired and i have been watching tv a lot. the advertisements going on 24/7 for the last five years, commercials on energy to the point where the american public has been dumbed down that now day except the terms such as clean coal. a good book for the public to familiarize themselves "the

internal combustion engine" by urban blacks -- irvin black. we could have a hundred years ago gone to electric cars. there is not enough oil left to satisfy our demand, so we are chasing our tail and spending enormous amounts of money and it is coming out of the taxpayer's pocket. host: harrisburg, pennsylvania, independent line. caller: thank you for c-span. it definitely know. no more drilling in the gulf. part of what you read in the editorial about the governor and other politicians talking about jobs, i do feel sorry for the people this will affect, but if you notice whether oil is going, this is not just affecting louisiana. it seems like governor bobby jindal is looking at his state in a microcosm.

what about florida, mississippi, and all of the other places? not to mention if it comes around the atlantic. this is a huge, huge disaster of incredible proportions. god knows how long bp will take to clean it up. host: the front page of "the miami herald." that is the front page of "the

miami herald" this morning. gregg, republican. should we keep drilling? caller: indeed, we should. thank you for taking my call. i think a lot of the democrats in particular should get a grip and pay attention and listen to details. first, let me make a quick analogy. not saying this is completely analogous to a plane crash, but if a 767 jumbo jet crashes because there was a lot of human error, people did mechanical things wrong, and the plane went down and 500 people lost their lives, should we stop flying airplanes? should we do -- stop drawing -- driving cars because 10,000 people a year die driving cars? of course not. if i remember correctly, there are something like 30,000 oil wells in the gulf of mexico. host: 35,000 oilwells, not necessarily all being drilled right now. caller: i understand, ok?

but here is the point. somebody out here, help me out. do the math, out of 30,000, i think we had one and i think one back in the 1970's. do the math. it is the typical this several emotional reaction to this absolute tragedy, ok, which is completely understandable. bp said -- we already knew, we knew from almost day 3 that the ultimate stop of the leak was going to be the secondary drilling of the well. that was the opener solution. second, we know from probably week one that some of these things were an attempt to stop the leak, and bp never said this is going to work. ok, we have to try it. why? they are trying to do a repair at a depth of water that has never been done before. host: this is "the wall street

journal." the new supercomputer suggest it is very likely the ocean current could take the water around the tip of florida and thousands of miles up the east coast this summer. truly a simulation, not a prediction, said a senior scientist at the los alamos laboratory in new mexico. so far it has been confined by strong eddy's but it is probably a temporary respite -- strong eddies. host: big oil group's break ranks with bp. this is a map of some of the rigs and the depths they are drilling added. here is no orleans and the coast of louise and -- louisiana here. deep water horizon drilling at 5000 plus feet, around a mile

down. here are some up to 7,800 feet down. here is a 1,700 foot well. it gives you an idea of how deep some of these wells are. new york city, robb, democrat. let me see if i can hit the right line. what do you think? caller: no more drilling. this is the reason why we need regulation of all of these types of industry -- oil, financial. i heard a statistic that said that this oil spill in the gulf now is the equivalent of one exxon valdez per week. every week we are getting what that spill was in alaska. i don't know how to gauge such a disaster as this, but to me, when people talk about three mile island, i think if there is any kind of comparison of global environmental catastrophe, one

ought to think something more like chernobyl. two more points -- if i lived in the gulf, and actually all americans, but especially those living in the gulf who are directly affected by this horrible disaster, my next car would be a nissan -- the first fully electric car with a range of 100 miles plus, put out by nissan. i am going to get on the waiting list. to send a message to toyota, honda, and ford -- if americans get serious about getting off of oil. i would not by another drop of oil if i could help it from any of those companies. host: he mentioned the exxon valdez spill, which happened. about 11 million gallons of oil were spilled by the exxon valdez when that happened.

now, but bp oil leak or spill -- and the bp oil leak or spill, the coast guard estimates to hundred and 10,000 gallons of oil are coming out of the pipe a day. it is day 46, which means approximately 9.4 million gallons of oil at this point. it is almost duty at this point, estimated if not already bigger than exxon valdez but already estimated as the same size. missouri, mike, independent line. what do you think about drilling in the gulf? caller: no, not the way they are going. it was your program that i've learned there was another valve that they could have put on their well, that a lot of the wells off the coastal have for one reason or another. this was a show yesterday or the day before.

host: are you talking about the types of valves that the norwegians and the english use? caller: yes, sir. i have not seen anything on any of the other news channels pertaining to that. the only place i heard about that that it costs a half a million dollars for it to be installed. i understand they want complete control -- they have to get the oil, but they have to know what they are getting out of the well. all of these figures, i wondering if it is supply and demand. if somebody finds out how much oil is coming out of the holes and do the math and the average, it is like, the corporate world has got some control. if everybody else finds out how much there is in the ground, supply and demand, it would affect the cost.

they are trying to keep some pretty tight strings. host: this is the front page of "the financial times." that is a conference call that is being held today. sun city, steve, republican line. should we keep drilling? caller: no, i'm a republican moderate and i vote every election. what irritates me a lot about this is the issue that they didn't have a primary, secondary response to this immediately. i just couldn't believe it, for

it to last this long. the government didn't have a response, bp did not have a response. all these years they have been drilling and they did not have some type of emergency response. that is what is really irritating about this. i do agree that we need to go green now. i think we need to look at nuclear energy and also electric cars. but we are going to end up needing more all live but right now you cannot condone that unless these companies come out with some emergency response. host: new cnn poll, day 500 of the obama administration. 400 -- 48% approval. less than half of the public approves of the job he has done in office, according to cnn poll

of polls. rio rancho, new mexico, democrat. caller: thank you for taking my call on c-span. my favorite hour of the day, watching c-span when i wake up in the morning. i would like to say that i have been in contact with the oil industry. i father has been 50 years in the oil industry. host: doing what? caller: he was a pipe line about sales president and he was president of the petroleum club in houston. he has been a sales manager for 40 years. on day two he said what they will do is to insert a pipe with it 100 feetit, run

deep in the hole and pyrotechnic lead exploded electronically and that was -- pyrotechnically explode it electronically. i spoke to other people and they say the same thing, why doesn't bp used pyrotechnics to stop the flow? it looks to me like they don't care about stopping the flow, or they would do what time honored tradition has done in the oilfield forever. when you have a gusher, you have to pyrotechnic -- and the already sank a pipe to gather a fifth of the oil, the first 30 days we watched them. they extracted a fifth of the oil, while most of it flowed out into the gulf. this proves that they can do bodily insert a pipe and go as deep as they like.

host: we will have bob tippee, editor of "oil and gas journal" from houston and we will ask him that question. this is the "usa today" cover yesterday. this is the size of the pipe that they say is spewing up to 800,000 gallons of oil today into the gulf. this is the actual size. this is the cover of "bloomberg business week." north carolina, thomas, independent line. should we keep drilling in the gulf? caller: not at all. with this drilling in the gulf out of the water, it should have been stopped years ago. my biggest complaint, comment is that people need to wake up and look at what is going on and what has been going on. this right here is the results

of a capitalist system that has gone completely and totally out of whack. everything that has happened in the last 25 or 30 years is a complete result of that and people need to wake up. host: that larouche, louisiana, bill on the republican line -- baton rouge, louisiana. caller: all these people saying quit drilling, they need to stop buying gas and fertilizer and what ever else. they don't even have a clue as to how many by products that come from oil. if they think that they can back to their cars up to one of these windmills and fill out their car with gas -- or what ever they think they are going to do, are crazy. host: bill -- mute your tv, and

we get the delay. i wanted to ask you, what is the general feeling of your neighbors, friends, the editorials in the papers down there? caller: well, people with any brain know that they can't stop drilling in the gulf. it and another thing, -- and another thing, the fishermen thought it was a wonderful thing. they used to go out and fish around these rigs, and it was wonderful because they were getting so many fish. host: thank you for calling in from louisiana. we definitely want to hear from those in louisiana and along the gulf coast. that is a live picture we are seeing right there of the work being done on the -- deepwater

horizon drill. caller: i think they should stop drilling in the gulf. first of all, i have not heard anyone saying how much damage this is doing to the earth and what is the purpose of the oil in the earth -- they are sucking it all out. i am concerned about that, what is the purpose that the oil is serving for the earth, keeping the earth do what is it doing? nobody talking about that. host: that call is from chicago. here is the front page of "the chicago sun-times." marked kirk, not -- mark kirk, as he tries to explain mistakes on his resume.

he blamed several of the inaccuracies on his attempt to translate pentagonese for voters or inattention in his campaign to the fine points of his 21- year military career. in an effort to stem the damage he also released his military personnel evaluations and promised to fix any errors found by anyone in the media to his political opponents. atlanta, steve, independent line. what do you think about drilling in the gulf? caller: we don't have any choice. the oil problem we got here, besides this idea of maybe not having two blow out protectors, it is the total and complete absolute response from the federal government on a backup plan to clean up the oil.

the president of shell oil has written a book about it. you ought to have him on as a guest. why they are not cleaning the oil up, why they are not putting tankers him, why they are not putting barges in to clean the oil up is just a complete, total failure on the part of the united states government and the industry, but the industry has to pay for it, the government is responsible for doing it. the government has failed to do it. exxon valdez act in 1990 requires the government to have this emergency response team. they have not done it. host: that caller, steve mentioned the former president of shell oil. we entered -- interviewed him on his new book last week and it aired this past weekend on book

-- you can see it on book tv .org. he will also be a best -- guest on "washington journal" tomorrow. this is from politico this morning. wall street has dramatically expanded its influence on capitol hill this last year using a lobbying army that includes nearly 1500 former federal employees and 73 former members of congress who have been deployed -- during debate on financial reform legislation.

back to your calls in branch, louisiana. randy, republican. caller: we absolutely have to drill in the gulf of mexico for the oil. better than 30% of the u.s. energy output comes from there. the issue that i think is being ignored is why was bp drilling in 5,000 feet of water, and that is because they were boxed into the corner by environmentalists and politicians in washington who for the last 40 years have passed laws precluding our drilling in areas that made more sense like the outer continental shelf. i know the people off the florida don't want to hear it, but off the florida and california in shallow water, it is much simpler to drill. i would like to point out, too, and i worked in the oil industry since 1966, i would like to put out that drilling a relief well is much simpler and would have already been accomplished had

this not been 5,000 feet of water. host: what do you do in the industry? caller: i worked actually in the gas portion, gas park -- processing and pipelines. safety, regulatory compliance, and training. host: where is branch, louisiana? caller: just a little bit west of lafayette, louisiana. host: thanks for calling in. this is from the associated press. a bp executive says a cap that has been placed on the blow out well has been collecting some will, but he doesn't know how much. west palm beach, florida, paula, democrat. caller: i don't think we should keep drilling, or eventually we

need to switch to a better energy source. but i just want to let everyone know, we could all do our part. if we knew that oil is in everything -- petroleum is and all of our products. when you go grocery shopping is, you don't have to buy things and plastic. everything in -- every single item with lastic has petroleum in it. makeup, lotion -- you have choices to make. we don't have to use so much oil. we could drive slower and save 50% of gas. we could find jobs closer to home. when you go shopping, buy products that don't have to be flown over thousands of miles or shipped across the ocean that use a lot of oil to get that product to your house. you should buy products that are made close to home, locally. buy products that did not contain petroleum. and if we paid more for gas in

this country, eventually we would probably be off oil quicker. i did not think we are paying what it really costs. host: this is "the new york times." early views of elena kagan.

those confirmation hearings began on june 28. then under kagan watch, a conservative website. obama may use executive privilege to withhold kagan documents. a council to obama implied obama could use executive privilege to hide memos elena kagan road. president obama does not intend to assert executive privilege -- bauer writes.

present -- ex-president clinton also has an interest and what do you think about drilling in the gulf? caller: there are two things -- i don't know if the media just does not know, but the golf and the bermuda triangle probably have oil reserve -- it's incredible, beyond anything venezuela has. and they are doing it completely right. they have centralized pipelines, for one thing.

we should have huge taxes on gas, for one thing, and a government -- it is natural resources. the entire gulf -- all the countries, everybody could have simple pipe lines that go into these vast pools. the bermuda triangle -- hello? host: we are listening. caller: the bermuda triangle, for one, it is so full of methane. it used to be solid seaweed when columbus came over. that all sank down and decayed into biofuel pared the gulf is the same way. host: arkansas, charles, republican. what about drilling in the gulf? caller: good morning. we have to drill. this entire problem started with the crooks in congress, they wanted to vote -- they denied

nuclear, they denied everything. you want to replace coal, you want to replace oil with solar? all you got to do is take 60 miles by 60 miles, that is what it will take to replace one coal plant. the same thing with oil -- it will take 2500 windmill's to replace one electrical plant. this is a jubilation as far as a stop drilling, that was the -- this whole situation as far as stop drilling, that is the whole problem in the first place. we would have drilled on land where it is safe. we would not have this problem. by the way, this is not the biggest spill that ever happened. this bill has been -- this oil has been in that area. host: are you referring to the

1979 spill off the coast of mexico? caller: and mother nature took care of all of that oil. host: ohio, next call. go ahead, rex. democrat. caller: i am not sure whether we should keep dribbling in the gulf or not. the gulf area and the gulf coast is pristine. there are a lot of tourists and a lot of business that depend on that area there. however, the drilling in the gulf and preventing such a disaster a mile underwater is going to approve almost impossible. i think we should open up our national parks to drilling and obtaining the fossil fuels that are there to keep from sending massive millions of dollars over to the opec countries and making them rich and passing on the

massive debt to our grandchildren. host: what john hofmeister told us in the interview, the u.s. uses approximately 21 million barrels of oil a day. we produce currently about 7 million barrels of oil a day. if we opened everything up, alaska, and all of the wells contained on land and all offshore oil that is available, we would get up to about 40 million barrels a day, which would mean we would still be important -- 14 million barrels a day, which would mean we would be importing 7 million. stockton, california, brendan, independent line -- brenda. caller: my thoughts are put a barrier, a safety barriers such as -- that is my thought.

as far as drilling, i cannot really sure but i feel that oil is a hazard to not only humans, but animals, also. host: thank you for calling. john in a parachute, colorado. what do you think? caller: how are you doing, c- span? thank you for taking my call. i do believe we still need to keep drilling, both in the gulf and up in alaska, but not in deepwater until they do have government stipulations where they are drilling at least one extra relief well in case they have a pressure blow out for the least impact on it so in case one does not function they have more backups than what they are using now. host: coming up next, bob tippee, editor of "oil and gas journal." we will continue this

conversation. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> pulitzer prize winners today on book tv. general non-fiction winner on the final decade of the cold war. a biography winter looks at the first tycoon, the life and times of cornelius vanderbilt. and how world bankers attended to rebuild the global economy following world war i and instead led to the great depression. today on book tv prime spot -- primetime on c-span2. >> oh, my god, this president would be in peach. and woodward said, we can never use that word impeachment around this newsroom, lest anybody think we had some kind of

agenda. but the awe of the moment stays with me. >> search through watergate through c-span's video library. see what other key players said about the break-in and cover-up. explore washington your way, the c-span video library, free online. we've got three new c-span books. "theham lincoln's a tiered supreme court is a tiered and "who's buried in grant's tomb? -- "the supreme court," it and "who's buried in grant's tomb?" each also a great idea for father's day. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we have a bob tippee,

editor of "oil and gas journal" from houston, texas. could you give us an update on the cut and cap procedure? guest: the latest information it is they have successfully cut through the piping at the top of the blowout preventer, which is where a lot of the oil is coming out. what they are trying to do is fit a seal over the cut pipe and then put an apparatus above the seal that will capture most of the oil. i don't think anybody is trying to make any promises that they will capture all of the oil. but they want to caption -- capture some of that and move up to the service judy hsu service. they want to capture some of the oil entering into the environment. host: is this brand new or something that has never been tried before or has it been tried before? guest: it is brand new. bp is having to invent as it

goes along. if it is successful, it would be a major engineering feat. you have to remember, operating conditions in 5,000 feet of water are extremely difficult. they have to use these robotic vehicles to do all of this work. it is very challenging. there is no guarantee that this effort will work. host: do you know, are they operating from ships that are located by where the old rate was -- rig was? guest: yes, they have quite an assembly of vehicles on the surface, and if you look at a diagram of it, it looks like an underground city of remotely operated vehicles that are actually performing the work. so, yes, there is quite a flotilla on the surface. host: we want to put the numbers up because mr. tippee is joining us for over the next 45 minutes

to talk about the oil spill and the industry. you can see the numbers/political affiliation. we have set aside our fourth line for folks who are employed in the oil industry. we will begin taking those calls in just a minute. can you give us an idea of what the bp operation in houston is like right now? guest: it must be like a war room. i have not been there but i know they have people working around the clock. it has been likened to the apollo 13 crisis many years ago. bp obviously wants to get this under control as quickly as possible. while you have this well control

effort underway, get the cleanup at the same time. two major operations underway at the same time. it is proceeding with great urgency but also with great care. guest: does bp had a houston headquarters? -- 9 host: does bp have a houston headquarters? guest: it is headquartered in london but it has a large operation in the gulf coast. host: we were talking to our viewers about whether we should continue drilling or not, and one of the viewers brought up the fact that in europe, particularly in europe -- norway and britain, and they used a different type of blowout preventer or something additional. guest: that, i believe, would be in reference to the acoustics which -- acoustic switch that is

required. it is not an extra block the vendor but an extra weight to activate the blowout preventer -- it is not an extra blowout preventer. we are going to have to see what happened with the blowout preventer to know whether the absence of an acoustic switch had any bearing. chances are that if there had been and acoustic switch available on that blowout a preventive, the same thing would have happened. we just don't know what happens to the blowout preventer. host: have they brought in supertankers to sweep up the oil? guest: supertankers, no. on the surface, they are skimming oil off the surface where it has come to the surface.

subsea they are injecting dispersant to form smaller massive that would biodegrade more rapidly. if that is what the question refers to, i think the answer is, yes, in the sense of skimmers, but not in the sense of supertankers. host: we had one other caller who suggested that you use pyrotechnics to stop the well, to stop the oil from gusting -- gushing. is that something that was considered? guest: it suggests fire and burning, and there have been surfaced burning. below the surface, i don't know what that would refer to. i really can't answer that.

host: new port richey, florida. anne, republican. caller: good morning, everybody. how are you? you stole my thunder. my reason for calling is i want to know -- are you there? host: we are listening. caller: i wanted to know about the skimming. thad allen said there was skimming in addition to the capping issue. maybe this is a political question -- maybe to pay back the states that are suffering. who controls the skimming operation and how money is made? maybe some of the money can go back to states like florida. my next question is, thad allen

-- gone from the scene as of july 1. is there anyone federally that will take over that? host: mr. tippee? guest: i know someone will take over that federal role. i don't know the name yet. as for the question about what happens to be oil that -- to the oil that is skimmed from the surface. i don't know. from the time it is rushed to the surface and skin, it is not quite the same substance. it is kind of an emotion of oil that has been somewhat biodegrade it -- it is kind of and emulsion. its value has declined. to be usable, it requires some processing, which would incur costs. but obviously it would have to

happen. but you can't just skim it and dump it somewhere else. they have to make it usable. i don't know where that money will use up at this point. host: texas, ed, and he works on a drilling rig. caller: mr. tippee, the reason why we are in the shape we are in drilling so deep is because all of the environmental laws, that we have to keep exploring deeper and deeper. if they let up on some of the regulations on land and parks and stuff, we might not have to go through all of this new technology trying to go deeper and deeper. it is like going to out thursday's. do you think we should keep on drilling -- it is like going out

to alter space. the thing we should keep on drilling? florida has oil reserves on land and california, too. what is your response on places where we can drill more safely than drilling offshore? guest:, you make the two excellent points. the analogy to space travel and deep water is very good. compared to land operations, operations in thousands of feet of water are a different world because of the challenges of pressure and temperature and just the necessity of doing things robotic lee, and so forth. it is definitely the case that we are in that environment, partly because we are denied access to more benign

environment, certainly on shore. the arctic national wildlife refuge is the classic case, it has great potential but it requires an act of congress to allow leasing and drilling, and that has not occurred. you are also correct, there are known deposits of oil and gas off the west coast in shallow water that are off limits, but politically is just not feasible to drill there. off the east coast, which was a political issue -- probably a dead issue now -- the existence of hydrocarbons is less certain, but there was a crack in the door just before the macondo blow out, to allow leasing. the environment there would be

less challenging and difficult as the old trick deep water in the gulf of mexico. -- ultra deep water in the gulf of mexico. there are proven areas that are not in those conditions. host: there is an article this morning in "the financial times" talking about big oil groups breaking ranks with bp. but they talk about how different oil companies produce their offshore oil rigs differently. our offshore oil rigs designed company by company like cars? or are they basically the same thing? guest: no, rigs are actually built by drilling contractors. in the case of macondo well,

that was trans ocean -- transociean. you slay they will contract with a contractor -- usually they will contract with a contractor. sometimes companies will be part of the design and construction of a drilling rig. but more often, however, they have a drilling job somewhere, they go to the contractor, work out a deal for a specific rig, and it may have come off of a hole that was drilled by another company. the difference in the operation of the company's occurs once the rig is off site -- on site.

they oversee the operations of the wells, giving instructions to the contractors. at that stage, i think it is fair to generalize that oil companies differ in their approaches to drilling operations. not so much in the design of the rigs themselves, in a sense that exxonmobil drives a ford and chevron drives a chevrolet or something like that. host: the next call comes from detroit. clyde, independent line. caller: thank you so much. can you hear me ok, sir? very good. i just wanted to voice a couple of things about oil and about how so-called republicans and democrats are calling on the independent line. i wish they would not do that. to the gentle man -- to the gentleman, the you believe that oil executives like shell and bp

are really dealing up and up with the american people? i'm a member of the green party. i am so tired of oil. it will kill you and me and future generations from breathing it and using it. it is time to electrify our grade. it is crazy and insane. it is like you are talking about people in the republican party saying drilling offshore and the national parks. you are neanderthal. you probably still believe the world is flat. the guy who mention from texas who worked on an oil rig, i am saying over long, obama should have tapped nasa. .

guest: i have to say, and this is never something that makes me popular but i'm afraid it is reality, we can't stop using oil any tile soon. if you look at the scale of energy consumption in this country and around the world and look at the share that oil has in conjunction with the shares of natural gas and coal, then look at the starting place for everything else especially renewabl renewables, you see it is a

challenge that we really can't meet if we are talking about totally crea totally ceasing the assumption of oil and gas. we are mobile, industrialized, we need energy. energy makes us productive. energy sustains an enviable way of life. and much of that is hydrocarbon energy and much of that is oil. that won't change. i know there is a lot of political hope right now motivated by changing that, but we couldn't do it except at a expense we can't sustain and won't like. because everything else is much more costly than oil and gas. i will take the analysis a step further to point out the reason. nature packed a lot of energy into small volumes with

hydrocarbons. everything else is a lot of energy spread out and you have to expend a lot of energy to bring it together to make it useful. that is an economic hurdle that all other forms of energy have to get over. now, it is a wonderful thing and it is a necessary thing that we spend money trying to figure out ways to get those energy sources over that hurdle. but we can't snap our fingers and make it happen overnight. i know how unpopular it is to say that, but it is the reality of the energy market. host: do you know how many rigs are currently in the gulf of mexico? guest: last count was 48. and 32 of them were in deep water. 32 are affected by the suspension of work. host: so, just 48 actual rigs? guest: yes. those are drilling rigs.

when we talk about rigs in the industry, we are talking about drilling rigs. those are jack-up rigs in shallower water or floating rig s in deeper water that are drilling holes. now, in terms of platforms, which are the installations from which operators produce oil and gas, you are talking more than 4,000 out in the gulf of mexico. so, if 48 sounds low, it is probably because of confusion between what is a rig and what is a platform. but 48 rigs. host: but several thousand platforms. guest: correct. host: when we hear there are 35,000 oil wells in the gulf, what does that mean? guest: those are penetrations

of the subsurface. those are holes in the ground or holes in the seabed. they don't all -- they are not all individual penetrations because there are what are called multilateral wells which means you have one penetration in the sea bed but the holes go off in multiple directions. so, those are individual wells in each of those multi- laterla wells. so, there is a lot of that. but a well is a completion in the subsurface meaning a hole that is prepared that allows oil and fast gas. tkpwhr according to the oil and gas association 33% of america a's domestically produced oil and gas comes from the gulf of mexico. next call. caller: bob, this is ray from

cann cannon. i wish you would get those internet numbers out to all of these companies and let the public dial in to those at cameron and everyone else in the oil industry, show them ouch safety equipment goes into the design of all of this equipment. i lined the first wellhead and worked with worked with exxon in the beginning back in the early 1960's and they have more safety devices down there. now, this has been a human error just look our astronauts got blown up. we didn't stop drilling and we didn't top going to the moon. host: what kind of work did do

you in the oil industry in caller: i worked for camp ran and i retired from cannon after 36 1/2 years. and i was one of the pioneers in this when shell, all the engineers and exxon and turned to a floating rig to drill in 600 feet of water and global marine went down in mississippi and took our wellheads and blow out interstack that is what everybody used at that time. host: mr. tippee, any response for that caller? guest: agree with the safety procedures. anybody who has been on an offshore well, especially knows

how closed an environment that is. you don't get on a rig or platform without a safety briefing and the people who give them are serious about that. blowout preventers are -- they are 1,000 of them. there's a blowout preventer on every well that is drilled during the drilling operation. they have a strong record. they are mechanical devices that have limits but they are studied all the time to try to get them to overcome those limits. they are very sophisticated pieces of equipment and they are installed with redundancy to ensure safe operations. one of the great mysteries of this blowout is what happened to the b.o. pfpp.

why didn't it close in the well? that said, the blowout occurred at a stage in the well construction where usually the blowout preventers have tkodones work. because when you have casing cement all the way down the hole that is usually what is holding in the pressure. something happened here. the blowout preventer was still on the wellhead and didn't close in the pressure. so, the question is what happened. and we don't know. host: who builds blowout preventers and where are they built? guest: there are several companies that do it. the gentleman that called said he worked for cameron. that is one of the major companies. hydril. there are other manufacturers of blowout preventers. these are, again, very

sophisticated pieces of equipment with a lot of redundancy built into them. host: loretta in cleveland you are on with bob tip pee. caller: good morning to you. mr. tippee, where is your journal found? is it online? in the library? on bookshelves? my most important question is relative to the supreme court's latest decision, where i think they err in listing corporations as people. the campaigns finance along with the stories read earlier about thousands of lobbyists for the oil and gas industry heading for

washingt washington. if a corporation can be listed under the tax code as a corporation and a person, what is the implication of that? host: where can people find your journal, mr. tippee? anybody can get read our news online which is w wfrpb wfrww.w. we have a very lively website and free electronic newsletter daily that you can subscribe to. the magazine is an industry trade journal part technical and part news magazine available by subscription only and we target decision makers in the oil and gas business.

we are not a magazine for the general public so we are not on newsstands. libraries in the oil-producing states do have us available. but the public can certainly get us through the website. tkpwhr it is an independent journal and i think i read it was founded in 1907? guest: it was actually founded in 1902 in east texas. it has been owned by the same company since 1910. so, that company turns 100. host: loretta had some concerns about lobbyists, oil industry lobbyists that i would like you to address. also, there are six congressional hearings already scheduled for next week on this gulf oil situation. what is the feeling in houston among the oil companies when they are called to congressional hearings like this?

guest: well, i don't think they are surprised by the necessity of going given the enormity of the disaster and the effect on people outside the oil and gas industry. so i don't think anybody is shocked by being summoned to a congressional hearing. i think the hearings have done a good job of bringing out facts in a very dynamic and difficult situati situation. i think probably when we finally know what happened it probably will be as a result of congressional testimony. right now it still is kind of a piecemeal assembly of facts. as far as the lobbyists are concerned, the industry has to be very concerned about

excessive and maybe erroneous regulations resulting from this. obviously there will be more regulation, and i think it is in order. but there will be a tendency to shut everything down, which would be very costly to the country and to the industry and people who work in it. there will be a tendency to impose regulations where they may not be necessary which will just impose costs and limit the amount of work that is done, which will ultimately limit domestic production of oil and gas, which is probably not in the national interest. so, i think it is a natural response of the industry to want to have its input in the

conversation. and the conversation right now is pretty emotional and that is not the pwbest atmosphere for regulati regulation. the american political approach to oil and gas is usually to ignore the subject when gas prices are low and to go berserk about it we gasoline prices are higher or there is a problem like this. maybe this will orient the political process to more knowledge about the sophistication of these operations and the necessity of their continuing even when we have a disaster. host: jim in columbia, south carolina, republican line. caller: people are maligning sarah palin's drill baby drill.

i think the appropriate retort should be walk baby walk. i question the people calling. i wonder if they use it as a wedge issue to build the democratic party to keep it together and keep another part of it together that is active at fund-raising. and i was wondering if we really are close enough to being energy independent or fossil fuel independent why don't we drill on land where it is safer and not be concerned about completing resources because they are going to have them available. so if you believe we are that close or should be there, then drill here and not run up a trade deficit and save our money for this country. host: mr. tippee, energy independence. guest: energy independence is a tphaoenice slogan. it is unachievable.

it is as unachievable, i'm afraid, as displacing oil and gas with renewable energy. we are going to continue to use oil and gas and we are going to continue to import oil and gas as we have before. oil anyway. we are pretty much independent in the case of natural gas now. to take it a step further, in the case of oil where you have an international commodity of great importance to the people who use it, i think that you can almost say even if we didn't import nearly as much oil as we do, we would still be dependent on oil in trade because our trade partners would need oil. people forget, i think, that we

are interdependent in the modern economy and that oil is sort of a currency of that int interdependence. so our interest is gauged more in in oil available in trade more than how much oil we import. i think those perspectives are necessary when you talk about energy independence because we throw the term around a lot and i'm not real sure we understand what that means. host: little rock, arkansas. faye, democrat, on with bob tippee. caller: good morning, mr. tippee. my concern is about the shores and the marshes that are being devastated. i know many people have given suggestions about the hay and

cotton and all that. i feel and believe that would work if this was made and procured with like barbed wire where you can shape it and line the shores with it. and you can even make it in different shapes to fit in certain places that would soak the oil up and get it. it would require a lot of man to power, but since -- a lot of manpower but since people are out of jobs why can't something be set up? guest: the caller obviously has done a lot of thinking about that and shows a lot of concern, and just the concern that everyone shares. to my knowledge, all techniques that people have imagined and can implement are being brought

to bear on the problem now. there is even work begun now on kind of building up sand barrie barriers, which is labor intensive and costly but certainly warranted to try to protect the beaches and marshland. some things will work and some things won't work. some things will be feasible and some things will not. we have seen the largest mobilization of spill response equipment that i have ever seen, and it is not going to stop all the oil. but it has held back a major part of it to this stage. we may well see techniques like the lady described tried before

it is over. host: according to resources that this is almost as big as the exxon valdiz spill, 11 million gallons of oil in that spill. in your view, has it topped that yet? guest: uh, if it hasn't yet, it probably will. we really don't know the flow rate. the government has estimateded 12,000 to 19,000 barrels a day. but it is really difficult to tell until they get a meter on wellhe wellhead. we won't know the flow rate and without knowing the flow rate we can't know the volume of oil

that has entered the environment. in very rough terms, the water depth, which makes well control so difficult may prove in the long run to have been a benefit in terms of spill control. there's a lot of water in which that oil is dispersing, and there are natural mechanisms for dealing with it. now those natural mechanisms have by-products like the depletion of oxygen in the water. but some of that oil is being biodegraded. it will remain as little tar balls that precipitate to the bottom and that will have a consequence. so, that is mother regret. but in some ways the water depth, the water volume out the there, is helpful.

but i don't know yet what that means. i don't think anybody yet knows what that means. we won't know until it is over. certainly, the longer that well flows, the bigger the problem and the greater the challenge of that natural mechanism to deal with the problem. host: donna in rio vista, california. caller: first my comment if we let jimmy carter continue his program with retphubls we would be farther ahead than when ronald reagan took over. my question is, is the oil that comes out of the united states deep water, who is it sold to, the united states or the international market? guest: if i understood the question, who buys the oil that is imported into the united stat

states. different companies. those are all private company transactions. the government doesn't buy oil and distribute it among companies. host: what about the oil that comes out of the gulf? this is a b.p. well. is that exclusively b.p.'s oil or do they sell it? guest: the oil is shared among the partners according to their working interests. and until recently some oil produced in the federal offshore went to the government under the royalty in kind program of the interior department. now secretary salazar has terminated that program, so the government gets its share of the production in dollars rather than barrels. but the companies themselves own the oil. now, they can sell it or take it

to one of the refineries and turn it in gasoline and diesel and other oil products. and both things happen with oil produced in the gulf of mexico. host: why are oil prices essentially going down during this spill? it seems almost count counterintuitive. guest: well, this was not a source of supply. this was not a well on production. and if it had been a well on production, its loss would not have been meaning pul to the market -- would not have been meaningful to the market. what will probably be meaningful to the market in the longer term will be the regulatory response and the time a moratorium lasts, which may be more than six months, the overall production destruction that results from that. but this spill itself was not a loss of supply that would have

had markets moving. the best explanations for falling crude oil prices at the moment are that demand isn't growing robustly. there is a lot of oil in the mark market. then the problem with the euro's value against the dollar has raised the value of the dollar which oil is denominated in and we have seen a sort of reverse relationship between the dollar value and oil. so when the dollar strengthens the oil price continues to come down. that is a sort of new dynamic in the oil market. i think we may be seeing some of that newspaper now. host: tim in coleville, washington, works for the oil industry. what to you do, tim, then go ahead with your question. caller: i'm a directional driller. first-time caller to c-span. thanks to c-span.

the best program on tv. i would like to comment that this is a wake-up call for the american in people that this is a post-carbon era. we can never produce enough oil to satisfy 21 million barrels a day and we should be adjusting our expectations for going forwa forward. host: what is a directional driller, tim? caller: we steer the bit to the well where the oil is. we would be out there doing the relief wells to intersect the original well bore. host: do do you it offshore? caller: i have done it off and on shore. host: are you doing it where you are? caller: no, i live here.

host: thanks. any comment? guest: he had a couple of points there. one, i think he was in agreement that we are going to continue to import oil, which i agree with. he said we are in a post-carbon era. we are certainly in a post-carbon hope era. politically, as i say, i think we will at this point to use a lot of oil and gas while we develop noncarbon energy sources. he introduced an important subject into this conversation and that is directional drilling, which is pretty amaze ing these days what drillers can do, how they can target well bores. the ability to do that has opened up some very interesting onshore places. we call them then conventional

gas plays which have reshaped the 2345r8 gas market -- natural gas market. a crucial technology is to drill wells horizontally. they start doing them veteran economy then -- they start vertically and then turn them to stay in the high romance part of that business now is shales that contain a lot of gas. that is directional drilling and that is a technology that has opened up a sort of new era of natural gas production and looks like the potential may for oil. that is onshore, not in deep water. and that is a big promise for the future. host: you said that this well was not in production currently. why not? guest: it was an exploratory well, meaning it was a well b.p. had drilled in the hope of finding old and gas, and of course it did. they were in the process of suspending the well, having

drilled the well to its target depth. they were suspending it and they were going to complete it for production, which doesn't always happen. sometimes an exploratory hole will find oil and gas but it is a narrow hole, it was drilled purely for exploratory purposes. they will plug and abandon the exploratory hole and come back and drill development wells to establish production. in the deep water you don't want to drill more holes than you have to because they are so expensive. so, this well was drilled with a diameter that could accommodate production if hydrocar bops were found. they were found. they were preparing to move the rig off, take the riser down and bring in a rig that would have

done the work to prepare the well to be a producing well. that was the stage in the drilling where they were. so, it was an exploratory hole that was going to be turned into a production well. they had actually run the casing that would accommodate the production just before the blowout occurred. host: fred, republican in farmington, maine. caller: well over a month ago i called b.p. as well as a number of politicians with what i felt was a cure for this oil and they gave me no contact back and it was electromagnets. i have seen electromagnets pick up railroad cars. there is no way they couldn't have put electromagnets positioned in different places with the little robot down there and cinched it up against the

pipes and could have stopped all the leaks a long time ago but nobody wanted to listen, especially b.p. host: mr. tippee. guest: that is an interesting concept. obviously that is a lot of metal down there on the sea floor. elect electromagnetics could play a role certainly. the one thing that occurs to me as the gentleman was describing his idea you have to be very careful not to aggravate the fl flow. there's a lot of junk on the bottom of the sea bed. the riser is lying on the floor. the b.o. pfpp. is still on top the well. there have been leaks around the wellhead. so you don't want to jar the b.o.p. and open it more than it is. the flow is actually constricted

partially by the wellhead and partially by crimson in the riser pipe. so, you have to be very careful. i really don't know how elect electro-mac net particulars work i really don't know how electromagnetics would work at that level and whether there would be the possibility of jarring something or moving something too abruptly because of the magnetics that would aggravate the flow. that obviously was one of the hesitations that b.p. had about the latest cut and cap operation is when you cut that riser you are giving up some constriction on the flow, so at the want to get the cap in there as quickly as they can. host: how similar is this current spill to the 1979 pimex spill off the coast of mexico? guest: the biggest difference

is that was not in 5,000 feet of water. i forget the depth baugh couple of hundred feet as i recall it. so, it was in a different set of operating conditions. that was farther from shore. that occurred at an earlier moment in technology. i do remember in that blowout an attempt to put a containment vessel above the well. that didn't work because the dome that at the lowered toppled and eventually required a relief well to kill the well. of course, there were two relief wells in the macondo blowout. the biggest difference is the water depth and another

difference is the technology available at that time. host: bob tippee the editor of the oil and gas journal, ogj.com is their website. thank you for being on the "washington journal" this morning. up next we will have a discussion on the economy with sarah murph the "wall street journal." first an update on campaign 2010. >> it is primary day in nevada on tuesday june 8. the winner of the republican primary will face harry reid in the general election. joining us on the phone is the political reporter with the reno gazette journal. mrs. damon, the latest poll yesterday shows sharon angle is leading for the first time backed by the tea party movement. she has 33% over danny tarkanian with 26% and sue lowden with

25%. saw lowden is the party establishment campaign. what happened with the change in polls? >> this has been a wild ride for the republicans. early on they were not able to recruit top tiered candidates and other candidates. so they got a dozen no-name republicans and lower chair republicans. sue lowden led for months and looked almost unbeatable. senate majority leader harry reid started taking significant reverses. but were hoping up an opportunity for sharon angle who has been considered conservative

ly pure candidate. relying on a small contingent of passionate conservative supporters for years. they have large ly mirrored the tea party activists. so, sharon angle got the endorsement of the tea party express and get the endorsement of club for growth. they have infused her campaign with cash and gone on tv supporting her. at the same time lowden's campaign made a lot of stumbles so you have seen her decline. >> you said these are not the most high profile republican candidates. what about their ability to attract money for their races given they are returning against the senate majority leader harry reid? >> harry reid probably has the biggest bull's eye on his back of any democrat.

republicans are very keen to take him out not just because he is the leader but he seems extremely vulnerable. incumbent it is no surprise they will have a difficult time this year. harry reid because haste don't know on a partisan leadership position an seen his approval ratings in nevada fall since then. nevada is typically purple state. they have pretty even voter registration although democrats have taken the lead. so he has seen his approval rating fall not just with taking the party leadership position, the economy has been hit harder in nevada than the rest of the country so he has been suffering and is seen as extremely vulnerable. so, republicans have put a the lot of resources into these. >> have the republican candidates been able to raise a good amount and how much does harry reid have? >> harry reid has said that he will spend $25 million on the

race, which is a huge sum for a nevada statewide race and he is well on his way to raising that amount. the republicans have been raising money at a slower clip but they have been spending it and lowd everyone n is pretty much broke and angle has been able to benefited from the outside money advertising. at the same time you have got the independent expenditure groups that are involved in the campaign. a democratic backed group is involved. >> michelle obama was campaigning for harry reid in nevada. is she popular in the state of nevada? and what is the schedule for the president of the united states to come out and campaign for? >> by virtue of his leadership

position harry reid is able to attract the biggest named democratic surrogates and potentially barack obama and his wife. the president has been to nevada twice. once specifically with a number of campaigns fund-raisers. michelle obama was advocating for her position for women's an children's health. but she is immensely popular with the democratic base in nevada. barack obama spent a lot of time campaigning here in the 2008 primary and 2008 presidential election. he was able to win this state with a large majority of the vote for the first time in decades for a democrat to do that. so, reid hopes bringing the president and his wife to the state will infuse his base with much needed enthusiasm. talking to the crowds, michelle obama was able to do that last week. >> finally, which candidate, which republican candidate would reid like to run against?

>> well, harry reid himself dodges that question since he doesn't vote republican so he hasn't studied up on the candidates. however, when you look at his campaign activities they have spent a tremendous amount of money, time and resources in weaken i weakening sue lowden and it has worked. sharon angle is seen by some as more of a fringe candidate and has not been able to raise a substantial amount of money or build a sophisticated campaign structu structure. so, when you look at those activities of trying to weak en sue lowden i would say he is aimed at sharon angle. >> tune in for the june 8 primary tuesday. we will have coverage on this network and c-span.org. thank you for your time. >> thank you.

host: sarah murph the "wall street journal," the unemployment numbers for may just came out a few minutes ago. payroll is up 431,000, lifted by census jobs. private hiring weak, jobless rate dips to 9.7%. interpret that for us. what does it mean? guest: in a lot of ways even though the top line number is high it is a more disappointing report than we were expected. it is census hiring and that is not a sign the overall economy is healthy. just a sign that a different government intervention. that is great news that people have jobs but it is the kind of thing that will trick le trickl. host: the story says private payroll grew at the slowest since the start of the year. guest: i think this past month in particular there have been a lot of uncertainties about what

is going on in europe, will that spill over in the u.s. then what you have in the gulf is temporarily pegt people out -- putting people out of work. host: so, you recently wrote a story in the "wall street journal" about chronic unemployment. 45% of the unemployed have been unemployed for more than six months. is that unusual? guest: yes, it is very unusual. this is i highest it has ever been and it is tracked back to 1948. i think it rose a little higher with the most recent numbers so it is a larger problem than we are used to dealing with. host: we are talking about the economy and some of the economic numbers. we are also talking about the unemployed and who they are. i will put the numbers on the screen divided by political affiliation. we have set aside our fourth line for the unemployed. we want to hear from you. we want to hear how long you have been unemployed, et cetera.

202-628-0184 if you are unemployed hit by the recession. is there a typical unemployed person? guest: well, there are definitely people who make up a larger share especially when you talk about chronically unemployed. out of work six month or more. it is more likely to be men which is not that surprising in this recession with construction jobs and manufacturing jobs. it is also likely to be who is white without a college degree. there are a couple of reasons for that. male occupations have been hard hit. white people are a larger share of the population so it makes sense they would be a larger share of the chronically unemployed. and if you only have a high school degree you may have been laid off more quickly. if you are looking to retain talent you will try to keep people more skilled and lay off people who are less skilled that you know you can pick up later on when the economy is better. host: employment rate dipped to

9.7% from 9.9% as thousands of people left the labor force. what does that mean? guest: when we see people leave the labor force that is not a great sign. it means they are so discouraged about the possibility of getting a job they have just given up. that is a big issue with the long-term unemployed because you don't want to see people drop out of the labor force. you don't want to lose the generation of, say, 50-year-old workers, 50 and 60-year-olds that will never work again because they will be a drain on all of the government resources and that is bad. host: how much of this is regional? around washington i think i saw 5.7% unemployment. national average 9.7%. mendota, california, 45%, detroit anywhere from sa 15% to 20%. guest: washington, d.c. is a great place to be unemployed

because it is easier to find a job with government hiring. if you go to a place in california, michigan, any of those really hard hit states it is a much worse situation. we have seen that based on the regional unemployment numbers. >> lakeland, florida, democrat. caller: good morning. i think the reason why the unemployment rate is still so high is they keep he extending this unemployment. i know of several people that are almost two years into collecting unemployment. come this november and october they will be on it two years and have no intention of going back to work. their husbands make very good money so they don't have to go back to work. they don't have to look for jobs. they just get checks. and i know in the winter months depending on what part of the united states you live in there are fewer jobs when it is not

the season like florida here and north carolina the summer is their season. so there are jobs out there. but if they are paid not to work, they are not going to look for work. guest: i think that is definitely a concern that is shared by both policy makers and economists. people are very worried that they sort of have a extreme number of benefits in terms of weeks. i think the maximum of 99 weeks could be pushing people out. but it is a difficult job market. so, even if you do want work it is hard to find a job and i think both policy makers and economists are trying to weigh what the best fix is and i think you saw that with congress do we keep the extensions going and keep the number of weeks at 99 or let those extensions fall off and get back to more normal levels of unemployment benefits. host: do you know what the average unemployment check is? how much people receive a week? guest: it is not a lot. usually for these people the

average unemployment check is not going to be anywhere near what they were making normally. that is different if you are working in a low wage job like retail it may be closer to the normal salary. but for like people who worked in management, finance, the checks are nowhere near what they were making before. host: next call benton harbor, michigan onnthe unemployed line. caller: thank you for calling. that lady who called in saying they need to cut people like me off unemployment. i bet she is not even a democrat, she is a republican and shooting her right wing crap. host: tell us your story. caller: i'm exhausted. congressman samuel evans is talking getting it extended. but in cities like detroit where my family lives and a lot of blacks live the unemployment

rate is higher at 50%. the lady makes a good point. a lot of people unemployed, black, white, latino only have a high school diploma. one thing they could do to alleviate that for people is community housing free and available the next 10 years so people can get at least two years to get a high school diploma so we won't have it unemployment and create a boom in terms of small businesses could be created. we have just have some dumb leadership going on that is affecting people like me and others in detroit and poor whites in rural areas. host: william, tell us your story. you live in benton harbor, michigan, that is the home of whirlpool, right? is caller: yes and they have a big recall with the maytag. i don't know if you heard. they know that because of

national competition from china they are in a big land grab and it is very controversial. we are trying to get land from our area and they tonight get into the land development. host: but could you tell us your story? caller: the gist of the story is we are trying to alleviate crime and -- host: we got that point from you. anything that he said that you would like to respond to? frpblgt he makes a very common point that retraining might be a way to fix the swaeuituation. a point that is made by a lot of policy makers and economists. i think the big issue is people are saying what do we retrain them for. we don't know what industries we want to push people toward of we don't want to push everyone toward healthcare or corrections or teaching because then you get an oversupply of workers. i think that that is an issue when it comes down to we want to

give people more education but what do we get them to study. host: next is tampa, andrew, republican. caller: i was wondering if ms. murray had an idea what the actual unemployment was. as you commented, there are disgruntled unemployed people who have left the work pool which always seems to baffle me. i don't know how people leave the pool but what is your best guesstimate as to the actual unemployment rate in the united states if you counted those people in? guest: well, we do get a figure that looks at not just people that are unemployed but people who are unemployed and have given unlooking for a job but still want to work. that is significantly higher than the normal unemployment rate. it is up to somewhere around 17%. i don't have the latest numbers

but it is significantly higher because you do see these people who say i still want a job, i still want to work but i have been looking for so many months and given up. host: next call is camden, new jersey. please go ahead. caller: hello. host: camden, you are on the air. caller: good morning. my first question is about the statistics about the unemployment. you said that it was more whites. i know where i live the statistics we are hearing is about the statistics about african-american males being out of work. my second question is, what is the resistance to instituting like government programs like we had back during the 1930's like the w.p.a. and those types of programs to help build the

infrastructure and those types of things. those are my questions. thank you. guest: well, i do think that it is not just that whites are experiencing unemployment. there are definitely -- it is definitely across the board and it is not just hitting one group, it is hitting everyone. blocks, hispanics, asians have been hit. in terms of a public works program, i think that you would find some support for that by both economists and policy makers. but the difficult thing is that politically it is a hard thing to pass especially in a time when people are growing more concerned about the deficit and more concerned about government spending. it is sort of a hard thing to get your congress to say people are out of work, we are going to add them to government payroll pretty much. while it might make sense to help boost employment and bring down the unemployment rate it is a difficult thing to do

politically. host: jackson, michigan, perry, democrat. you are on the air. caller: i would like to comment on the lady who said to cut people off unemployment. i have been on unemployment 99 weeks and i have just lost my unemployment and things are bad here. host: how much were you are -- how much were you getting a week? caller: $308. host: how much were you making prior to had caller: 23 grand a year driving a sweeper truck. you can't get a job here picking up trash. so, it is bad. host: what is the solution in your view? caller: well, they would have to create more jobs. in michigan in is nothing here. i mean it is bad. i have never seen anything like it. so, that is all i have to say. guest: it is definitely true

that michigan is hard hit. it has the highest unemployment rate. it has been dealing with sort of the economic struggles for longer than much of the rest of the country. and i don't know that we have a great idea for how to fix michigan. i think that a lot of people have been saying maybe the only way for people to find jobs in michigan is to leave michigan. and i understand that is something that really difficult to do if you are someone who has a family, who has a mortgage, has children. how are you just going to get up and move? so, i can sympathize if not empathize with this person because i have talked to a lot of people in similar positions in michigan and withere doesn't seem to an fix on the horizon. host: you grew up in michigan? guest: i did. host: was your family involved in the auto industry? guest: i think my mom worked on an auto production line in her 20's. but they are both accountants so they have not been really

affiliated with the ought troe industry. i think their clients to a certain extent may have been feeling this more because they have people who had jobs that are more tied to manufacturing. host: have your parents felt the economic effects? guest: i think that they have to a lesser extent because they have occupations like accounting. so even if there were companies filing to bankruptcy they need accountants. but it is impossible to live in michigan and not feel it happening around you. host: this article in "u.s.a. today" a little counterintuitive. auto industry may see labor shortage. while 228,000 jobs have been shed the past two years the industry is poised to add about 15,000 this year and could need up to 100,000 new workers from 2011 to 2013 according to david cole who is chairman of the center for automotive research it ann arbor. the new jobs would necessarily

be filled by displaced workers. they need workers with more and different skills than in the past on the factory floor. among priorities computer skills and ability to work with less supervision than predecessors. that likely means education beyond high school. guest: yes. so, one of the biggest problems with people who are out of work for years is that your skills atrophy. you are tphnot learning new technology and doing the same thing that you have been doing for years. and that definitely plays a role in being able to get your next job. i think that that is where something like community colleges and other sorts of retraining programs come in. but you need to be retraining the people for specific jobs. so, the ideal program would be the auto companies working with the community colleges to say here is the program we want and workers we want. then you can get people who only had a high school education who joined the auto company because

their dad did to come into the programs and be funneled out. but that takes time and if you have been out of work three years what you want is a paycheck. host: more from the associated press on the unemployment numbers released this morning. the stock market is headed for a sharply lower open after the government's main employment fell far below investors' expectations. 413,000 jobs were created last month but 411,000 were from the government's hiring of temporary census workers. economists had forecast employers would add 513,000 jobs. guest: yes, i mean like i said at the beginning, i think that this is the worse report. the top number is great but in a couple of months those census jobs won't be here and you need the private sector to add jobs. i think the other thing that is sort of dragging this down is state and local governments. bbdgets are pressed and they are shedding workers and that is

going to hurt. host: next call is long island. tell us your story first, leo. are you with us? leo? caller: hi. host: please tell us your story. caller: ok. i want to say first that lady who said to cut people off unemployment people do not get unemployment because they don't want to work. you get unemployment because you can't find work and it hurts. host: how long have you been unemployed and what is your situation? caller: ok. in 2008 i fell on a motorcycle and went out on disability and i was fired while i was out and i have been unemployed since. i took some jobs on the side but i can't get -- i'm a computer technician and i live in long island out in suffolk county. and you can't find anything -- we i first came out of school i was making money and i have been around the country making money

and i found out after school i came back host: how much do you get a week on unemployment in caller: i get $235 a week. guest: this is sort of the other side of the argument that we have been hearing is that on the one hand it is possible people are staying on benefits longer because they extend for so many weeks but on the other hand if you had a well-paying job before, these benefits don't make up for this lost paycheck. so, there are two sides to the story and one side is that it is just a really hard time to find a job. .

guest: in this specific instance, if you need to have a sort of more defined plan. host: james on the republican blinded go ahead with your comment for sara murray. caller: it is not how much money you make, it is how much money you save. pay cuts been happening since reagan days in the military. what happened is that we can get

by. we do not need to buy expensive sneakers the weekend -- we do not have to buy expensive sneakers. we can buy payless sneakers. we do not need to buy a fancy paid less, save more, and you will make it. %+ guest: the problem we have had over the past couple of years is that people were spending more than they were saving. you have seen the saving rate go up and that is a good sign, that we are moving towards health although it hurts at the short term to the people have had months and months savings. baristas to have six months of the savings in your account to cut -- you are supposed to have six months of savings and your account to cover all of your bills.

so even people who are in really good positions, who were pretty conservative spenders, saved a lot of money, if they were unlucky enough to be laid off two or three years ago, they are still in a rough spot now. host: north carolina, thomas, good morning. thomas? caller: i just wanted to ask if there has been any numbers or anything out on a relocation. for instance, in my case, probably good chance that i am going to have to leave this state and move to another state for employment opportunities. host: if you are unemployed now, what kind of worker did you do? caller: primarily welding. i'm primarily a manufacturer in prison for employment, and have been for years. -- primarily in manufacturing

person for employment, and have been for years. host: no work to be found in north carolina? caller: it is pretty bad in this area. guest: i really feel for people like him, because it is hard to pick up your life and moved it, and it is harder if you have a home, harder if you have kids. migration trends have slowed. people are staying in their state. part of the reason is that it costs money to move. costs money to get out of your current apartment, home, and pick up and move. in some states, it may be in makes more sense to leave. i don't know if north carolina is one of them. but people who have had luck in their job search have cast a wide net, applied to a lot of places, and it is possible to move even if it is a difficult

situation. host: are there some parts of the u.s. that are doing better than others? guest: yes. but there are no parts that have been scared from the recession. the dakotas stand out, or the unemployment rate is shockingly low -- where the unemployment rate is shockingly low. host: are their vast migration is going on right now? unfortunately, i am old enough to remember -- grew up in the midwest in the 1970's, and so many people moved south -- texas, florida, some of the sun belt states, for manufacturing opportunities. guest: things are really is slowing. over the past decade, people moved all over the country, migration trends are huge, and now people are just staying put. they don't know where else to

go, don't know where to find jobs, and it costs money. host: indiana. mike is unemployed there. caller: my and employment benefits just got exhausted this past week. host: what kind of work were you doing? caller: i was a civil draftsmen, and the benefits -- i maxed out it for a 200 week. -- i maxed out at 420 a week. host: what is possible draftsmen do? caller: designed roads and subdivisions for the land development industry. host: are you thinking about leaving indiana? caller: if i can find a job outside indiana, i would take it. to the lady who said that people don't want to work, want to remain on unemployment, the thing i would say is that if i

am offered a job, i have to accept it. you have to apply to jobs in order to maintain benefits. for those people who are saying that people want to stay on unemployment, that is just not true. if i have been offered a job, i would take it, but there's just no jobs. this industry was the first industry that was hit what all the trouble started. my whole company shut down because of the economic downturn. host: thanks for calling in this morning. guest: one of the things about being unemployed for a long time is that it does not just do things to your skills, but it also sort of makes people unhappy. it causes them to have anxiety, it can make them depressed. that makes people want to take any job they can get just to make them feel like they are doing something. it is possible that even if you are getting unemployment benefits, even if they are

around $4 a week, you just want a job to do something -- even if they're around $400 a week, you just want a job to do something. host: pat, good morning. caller: i would say to michigan is that they ought to have block parties -- what i mean is to have churches line up and put food and stuff on the table and feed all of these people. have business people come in an interview these people that don't have a job, or have a big yard sale and have food and feed all of these people that are agreed. host: pat, how is the economy in north carolina? caller: i have been job hunting for two years. host: have you been receiving unemployment? caller: i think north carolina is great. host: what kind of work to do you do? caller: i was a waitress.

the job i want to get, they give you liked six hours report -- the jobs i want to get, they give you like six hours. host: are you receiving unemployment? .aller: no, i don't qualify but i really enjoyed c-span, and thank you for having spent on the air. host: -- for having c-span on the air. host: thank you for watching. guest: particularly in michigan, where this has been going on for a long time, you have churches and humanitarian groups stepping in to try to help. i have been talking to people who have been out of work for a long time, and you need to look in the resources in your area once the unemployment benefits run out. if you really cannot find a job and you are desperate, there are eight groups and give you food and clothing and shelter -- aid

groups that can give you food and clothing and shelter. host: what about pat? she does not qualify for unemployment, but she is searching for a job. does she fit into the night but 7% number? -- 9.7% ever? guest: i believe that she does. they have a whole list of things that qualifies as actively looking. if you say that, you are part of the 9.7% that is unemployed. they do not just rely on whether or not you are receiving unemployment benefits. host: rick, on the republican line. caller: high, sa -- hi, sara. you sound very intelligent, and i have a question for you. i am a mortgage broker and have it over three years. i watch financial channels, the news channels, c-span, and if

you can explain to me the catalyst of what caused the downfall of cdos and was the key -- all of a sudden everything was worthless in one shot, and lehman went down. we have not had one economist who can explain it. they say is too technical. we understand what cdos and cds's are. when the government started buying at these things, these things are worth the money. guest: i am not going to pretend that i can explain the intricacies of cdos. but a big part of the problem is that people taking out mortgages and the firm's underwriting them were dealing with people who could not afford to live in houses they were in

it. you can talk all day about who is to blame for this, but a lot of people just default on their mortgages and they just depended too much of the fact that if they bought an expensive home, the value would go up and would never be a problem. we are back to this idea of spending less and saving more and being more conservative in your investments. i think that is sort of the aftermath that you are seeing now. people are much more conservative. host: i know you cover state budget issues as well as the economy. we covered an event yesterday by the state legislative budget officers, i believe. the director of the group said recovery, -- with a little bit of recovery, states need 8% of economic growth rate over the next couple of years just to get back to where we were prior to the fall 2008. guest: that is in line with other estimates i have heard

that it will take a while to get back to normal. the thing about state and local budgets is that they tended to lag the larger recession. because you have all of these stimulus funds plugging the gap in the budget last year, everything is coming home. the economy is still not great, and they have to balance the budget to make these cuts. it is hurting. it is hurting incomes and employment. host: springfield, missouri. mark is unemployed. tell me about your situation. caller: i'm originally from the chicago area. my company that was established up there, we tested metals, x- ray, ultrasound on metals, that kind of thing. after 25 years, they shut their doors. and they -- i am a disabled veteran, so i was able to go through the veterans

administration to medical x-ray school. however, by that time, i got into the program in 2003, and there were hundreds of people applying for just 32 seats in the program. everyone at told to go to health care, go to health care. there are certain sectors of health care that are just flooded with an overabundance of people. i'm 50 years old, and this has been going on the last decade. this was more of a rural area with more of a need for x-ray techs, but both of the major hospitals have their own x-ray program. host: have you been receiving unemployment benefits? caller: yes, sir. host: how much you get a week? caller: about 283 that day at

the stimulus money to that. -- about 280. they add a little stimulus money to that. going back, the thing i've noticed is that some of the people who have experienced this over the time of the recession, of losing its job, some people heart of the fact that -- some people harp on the fact that you get unemployment. they say, why don't you get a job? how dare you collect unemployment the people who understand the situation say, yeah, you collect unemployment, what else do you do? you have a choice -- do i make $7 an hour and get less than what i would make from unemployment? it is really a catch-22 thing. guest: i think the sort of a question he is talking about, do i take it out and make less than the unemployment benefits, is something that -- to take a job

and make less than the on a plan to benefits, is something that a lot of people have weighed -- make less than on the unemployment benefits, is something that a lot of people have weighed. economists have shown that you can stay on benefits is little longer, particularly if the other offer is a low-wage job. host: you can get benefits and work at a low-wage job? guest: no, if you take a low- wage job, it comes from your benefits -- cuts from your benefits, depending on what is going on in that state. people are saying, well, what do i do? to my fork over this extra money so that i can be working, -- do i fork over this extra money so that i can be working, or do i wait for a little bit better opportunity? host: has there been a legislative initiative to address that? guest: that is part of the

battle going on, when congress comes back. part of this is spending adding to the deficit, and other part is, well, our people just hanging on to these benefits and not entering the workforce? you cannot say it is 100% because of that, because it's a tough labor market. host: 99 weeks is the limit. what has it been raised from? guest: for most states, the maximum is, like, at 26 weeks. there is a complex tier system or if the unemployment rate is higher, you get this. the maximum was raised to 99 weeks for high unemployment. host: last call for sara murray is from michigan, gary on the republican line. caller: thanks for taking my call. there is a lot of people in michigan that is hurting. i have been a republican all my life. i have seen the hurt.

we help every country in the world when it date needed. i think they should extend unemployment benefits past 99 weeks. host: what kind of work do you do? caller: i work in automotive. host: can you tell us what kind of automotive? caller: just automotive. host: thanks. guest: one thing that seems to be off the table is the idea of extending benefits beyond 99 weeks. i know that is really a tough pill to swallow if you are one of those people who have just exhausted benefits and you do not see a drop coming your way. but that seems to be something that congress has ruled out. host: do you know, which the government has spent on unemployment benefits over the last few -- do you know how much the government has spent on unemployment benefits over the last few years? guest: you know, i don't know.

we know the price tag as got up. host: sara murray, thank you for being on the wall street -- "washington journal." it next up, susan pardon of office of violence against women. we will explore with that office is. >> pulitzer prize winners today on booktv prime time. general non-fiction winner david hoffman on the final decade of the cold war. t.j. stiles on the lives and

times of cornelius vanderbilt. and liaquat ahmed on what led to the great collapse and depression. today on c-span2. this weekend on "in depth," martha nussbaum, a university of chicago law professor, although not a lawyer, who has written or contribute to many books on sexism and legal justice. join us on at booktv's "in depth." >> we have three new ad c-span books for you -- "abraham lincoln," "the supreme court," and "who is buried in grant's tomb?" to order, go to c-

span.org/books. each one is also a great gift idea for father's day. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we want to introduce you to susan carbon, the director of the office on the violence against women. what does that office do? guest: good morning, and thank you for inviting me here today. it is one component of the united states department of justice. our office was created 15 years ago to provide national leadership on the issue of of violence against women, particularly focusing on domestic violence, sexual assault, dating violence, and stalking, although weak cover the whole range of the violence against women. -- we cover the whole range of the violence against women. we are here to provide leadership on the issue of violence against women, and we

do so with state governments and local governments and territories and so forth, through the mechanism we have of administering grant funds. each year congress appropriates funds for our office to distribute to states, local collisions, community groups, to implement a variety of different programs to help establish policies at the local level. host: what was the office found it? how big is your budget? guest: the office was founded in 1995 after the act was passed in 1994. each year, our office administers $430 million, roughly, in grant funds. over the past 15 years, we have distributed over $4 billion in grant funds. host: is it important that there be a separate department of

justice office for violence against women? guest: i believe so. it was congress' intent. in years ago, the concept of violence against women was unheard of. we did not identify domestic violence as a crime. it is probably the single biggest, in my view, legal and social issue facing the country. it used to be that we did not identify domestic violence as an issue, did not understand it as an issue, until we started hearing from victims about what their experiences were and from advocates about the need to have an office that would address these issues. advocates were behind the original movement to address a federal response to these crimes, because none of this was happening at the state level. congress determine after many years of work and public hearings led by now-vice- president biden, at the time senator biden, the importance of establishing an office that would direct attention to crimes

against women. ultimately, after many years of failed attempts, lots of national support came together, and with a bipartisan effort, in particular senator hatch, leading the republican leadership, brought democrats and republicans together to realize that we truly need to address this on a comprehensive level. host: are there any statistics on domestic violence? guest: there are lots of the statistics. we have government statistics, private foundations statistics. i hesitate to focus just on statistics. host: a snapshot. guest: roughly one in four, one in six women are victims of domestic violence. every year we have half a million reported sexual assaults, and i stress "reported," because rape and sexual assaults are to this day the most under-reported crimes

in america. women don't want to report sexual violence. it is a very difficult thing to report. the responses are not very positive responses. women are victimized, women are blamed for the assault. some classic cases are of women reporting the assault and the ingrate turns to the victim, not a perpetrator. -- inquiry turns to the victim, not the perpetrator. it is very difficult for somebody to have been sexually assaulted to go through the physical, and emotional trauma and then reported but then he accused of being the source of the problem -- but then be accused of being the source of the problem and not having the perpetrator addressed. if it is not properly investigated and prosecuted, because of all the investigation, or if it is prosecuted and the jury

believes, because of a culture where the blood would be blamed for this, women will not come for -- where the woman would be blamed for this, women will not come forward. teen dating violence, for example, was not part of the original of violence against women act. a few years ago, a 2005, in the third version of the act, it teen dating violence was included so that we could focus our attention and public awareness and resources on addressing teen dating of violence. host: when did you become director? guest: two months ago. host: i have been calling you judge. why am i calling you judge? guest: for 20 years i was the judge read my docket was primarily the family court docket. -- for 20 years i was a judge.

my dog was primarily the family court dockets. -- might dock it was primarily a family court docket. i've learned about domestic violence and the trauma it cost women and children every day in america. i started focusing my professional extracurricular, if you know, a career around domestic violence, trying to hear, decides cases on the bench, how to have professionals address this problem. i have spent years in the state and across the country and around the world dealing with domestic violence. host: you did not want to focus just on statistics, but as a judge, you would be at the micro level, you would see the actual -- what kind of help is the doj 's office on violence against women offer to a woman who has

been domestically abused, and etc.? guest: what we do is set policy through the administration bus to grant funns that are prorated to us by congress, -- through the administration's grant funds that are appropriated to us by congress. kantor discretionary grants -- and through discretionary grants, for example, a court system, or a collaborative group, law enforcement, community leaders, could come together to apply for funds to improve their own community response. host: what about ngo's? guest: they can as well. host: for example, a shelter? guest: mm-hmm. host: what other kinds of grants do you provide?

guest: we have grants for prosecutors, law enforcement, we have transitional housing, and victims in rural jurisdictions are in a a more unique and potentially more dangerous situation. i remember one time being in wyoming, and it has the largest geographic county in the country. we have a few law enforcement officers who need to cover the territory and provide resources and safety and is very hard for rural setting, to provide for safety needs that they may have. we do programs to deal with teen awareness we have our range of other programs that deal with a host of issues. it is just a very wide scope of programs.

when programs now to address culturally and -- we have programs now to address is culturally and linguistically specific situations. we have programs for troubled collisions. it was not until recently upset -- for tribal coalitions. it was not until recently that we recognize that we have responsibilities that were un fulfilled. this administration and attorney-general are deeply committed to addressing the wrongs of previous administrations. host: it was signed by a democratic president, bill clinton, and tune out a democratic president, president obama. was president -- you now have a democratic president, president obama. was president bush's support of this? guest: every administration and

congress was supportive of this. we now have our renewed for this -- a renewed focus. shortly, a month or two after coming into office, president obama crated a white house counsel for women and girls -- created a white house counsel for women and girls. the needs have not been addressed. this council takes a look at all the actions are not the federal government to make sure that we are addressing the needs of women and girls -- around the federal government to make sure that we are addressing the needs of women and girls. another thing was to place a special adviser in the white house, who had formerly been the national director of the network on domestic violence, appointed by vice-presi -- appointed by president obama. president obama and vice president biden have been working very closely on this to elevate the importance of sexual

assault, and brought in this special adviser. she has been a visa on -- a liaison and leadership force in the white house that we've never had before. the attorney-general has been incredibly active, perhaps the most active one we have ever seen on these issues. host: judge susan carbon, director of the office on violence against women. mary in oklahoma, republican line, you are first up. caller: good morning. host: i'm going to have to put you on hold. you know the rule, you have to turn the volume down pretty will come back to you. valerie ii maryland. ,aller: i want to know comp

should men who commit violence against women register as sex offenders? one more time? caller: i think a man who commit abuse against women should register like sex offenders. guest: the question of registration as sex offenders is something that congress has taken up and looking into as to what guidelines qualify for registration. to my knowledge, they don't discriminate between men and women who would be a sex offenders. if the crime or one that required reporting, they would be included. host: is this a state or federal issue? guest: it is both. when you have sex offenders crossing state lines, you have to make sure you have the collateral connection between different jurisdictions. there are restrictions on where sex offenders can go, once they are released or imprisoned or incarcerated. we need to make sure that there is a connection and safety for

the community. it is as well in local safety issue. host: next call, mary in oklahoma. caller: well, let me tell you might story don't cut me off, because i will make it brief. i'm 86 years old. when i married back in the 40's, i told my husband then -- i said, i am just as good as you are. i'm supposed to walk by your side. and if you cannot respect me, or if you ever hit or hurt me, i will kill you. that is what i told them. he left that he thought it was funny. but the idea of it was that he respected me all these years, and every time he come in, and something,ss about a li .e said, don't go away from me

women have rights, but they don't enforce them that is the problem with many women. they can walk alongside their husband. they should talk their problems out. as we raise our family, our supper table was the place to settle our problems. we settled my problems, his problems, and he would ask each one of our four children, what do you want to tell me today? we did not say, "oh, he is to blame --" host: mary, did you have any friends or know any women who were perhaps abused? caller: yes. talking to them is like talking to the win, because they would not leave them.

it would not leave them or stand up to them. i had a sister, and so help me god, i could not figure out why she took that. he would have respected her. guest: i would love to respond to that. barry, i am very happy that you were safe in your religion -- mary, i am very happy that you were safe in your relationship and that your husband respected you. many have that same experience in a happy marriage and their children are also safe. but for women trying to leave a dangerous relationship, it can be more dangerous. leaving it is a more dangerous time for them. there are risks inherent in that. if there are not services in place, and 40 years ago, i dare say there were fewer resources in place -- that landscape has

changed dramatically now. but it can be very dangerous for women to leave unless they have a safe place and resources. we have a lot of data for research on domestic violence and research in particular on domestic homicide that most common sites secure following the departure from the danger is published -- most homicides occur following the departure from the dangerous relationship. host: being in family court for years, does anything surprise you? guest: i was very shocked. to this day, i am still -- not shocked, but deeply, deeply saddened, what i hear stories. there are days when i hear things that i cannot believe happen to people, that an individual would have to endure the physical abuse or emotional humiliation and devastation in their lives. trying to cope with that is not an easy task.

host: i saw a story yesterday in "the baltimore sun," i think it was, or a 17-month old girl contracts gonorrhea. is that something your office should work on? guest: there are horrific instances of rape of children, grew some physical acts -- gruesome physical acts. in services for children, we do a holistic view as well. we will be looking at a comprehensive assessment of children who are exposed to all different kinds of of violence, is perhaps being one of the most horrific forms of a violent -- this perhaps being one of the most horrific forms of violence a child could experience. host: st. louis, good morning.

caller: susan, thank you for your work and all that you do agree i communicated last week to you because i work in the african community, and the violence against women is increasing throughout the nation, especially among refugees and immigrants. beyond the grants, how do you address funding disparities for smaller communities? i know we discussed this last week, but on a larger scale, how do you addressed nationally defunding disparities? -- the funding disparities? guest: we have a program called the culturally and linguistically specific programs to reach out to underserved communities. that is one of my personal priorities in the office, to make sure that we are reaching all populations. we know that statistics are much higher for african-american women and even higher for

.merican indian women and we want to reach out to all communities to make sure that resources are available for everybody. host: are there differences in cultural attitude among recent immigrants as opposed to longtime residents of the u.s.? guest: all cultures have different views, but i don't think any culture endures or endorses violence. we cannot in any form at all. host: said lewis, go ahead. -- st. louis, go ahead. caller: i'm a victim of mental and physical abuse, at the age of 14. i'm going to be 51 in november. i am in a work force were i was denied a settlement agreement

where i had two new assistant managers put in overnight that put me into personnel and tried to write me up for productivity, where i know as upper survive -- where i know as a survivor i do have choices. i did not sign the paperwork. the media elite -- they immediately started threatening my job. i started crying, and they said i needed to call the crisis hot line, and i said, "no, i don't." they then said, you need to call resources for living. i said, "no, i don't." sheet immediately got up and left the room and left me with the male manager and close the door with personnel. with the situation of being in the decision i am in, i felt they were uncomfortable --.

in the position i'm in, felt they were uncomfortable. next thing i know, i am in groceries picking up cardboard, and look up, and two policemen are walking through the door. evidently she had called 911 and told them i was going to kill myself. host: thank you for sharing your story. what is your response to her? guest: i cannot address the specific circumstances, but our office has been looking into action on workplace violence, and to have an appropriate workplace private and public employer response to sexual assault. we will help individual employers learn how to deal appropriately with these issues, but sexual assault and sexual harassment a -- and violent both sexual assault -- both sexual assault and sexual harassment

and violence. host: next call. caller: thank you for it c-span. it just does not seem to be working. it seems like it is something cool to go to jail now, or prison. it seems that people who commit these kinds of violence, and iimes against the victim's -- have two sisters and a daughter, and i would not want anything like that to happen anyway ap. we just get more crime and more crime, the politicians do nothing. guest: let me try to respond to that. one of the major focus on our office is to have a good public awareness of the problem itself. when we changed the dynamic and understand how violence is perpetrated in our families and

streets and music and sports, we will change the dynamic and change what we now accept as ok to something where we recognize that violence cannot and will not be tolerated. one of our initiatives is to focus much more heavily on prevention. much luck with that with seat belts and drunk driving and things of this nature -- much like we have had with seat belts and drunk driving and things of the center, we need people to realize that you need to be safe. people will understand and no longer tolerate violence. we have come in my view, cultural schizophrenia around violence, which may be why we tolerate it and do not section of violent -- do not sanction of violent behavior. we have a lot of a violent music, misogynistic images. we're not making a recognition

that this is flat out wrong and cannot be tolerated. we have to have a holistic, comprehensive approach to saying that violence is not right and nobody should be subjected to violence. no man, woman, where a child should be subjected to violence -- no man, woman, or child should be subjected to violence. host: does some of your grant money go to research of men who commit violence against women? guest: there is another part of the department of justice, at the national institute of justice, which conducts a lot of research, and we have some research through a programming as well. we try to look at all areas of the violence. there are issues raised of whether men or women commit violence. we want to make sure we have a violence-free environment. host: tim, independent line. caller: actually, i have a background in counseling.

will we know is that violence does not happen -- that what we know is that violence does not happen in a vacuum, domestic violence, especially. you sort of pre-emptive meet a bit, as it relates to -- preempted me a bit, as it relates to men who perpetrate violent acts as coping mechanisms, in terms of the they are overwhelmed with the life and they called by committing the most of violence. obviously, that is not ok, but what is being done to help dealing with that? guest: that is a great question. being under stress and losing a job is not an excuse for violence, and if people respond to that by committing violence against an intimate partner or friend or whatever, they have a very distinct problem. we do need to address that

problem. it is important as well to understand that there are resources available for men who batter. we have court sanctioned programming for batterers so that they can change the behavior and learn why those responses are not appropriate. i do want to make it absolutely clear that our callers and or loss of a job is no -- excuse for that alcohol -- i want to make absolutely clear that alcoholism or loss of a job is no excuse for committing violence against a partner. host: nancy, you with us? caller: yes. since i bought a home in 2005, i noticed that it aggravated me a lot, but in society as a general rule, that women are second- class in our attitudes. i am not complaining about it, i'm just noticing that, because i want to accept it.

law enforcement -- here in fort lauderdale, if they have a problem but some guy -- about five years ago, when he assaulted me, they did not do anything. i come to the conclusion that things have not changed that much, i am sorry to say. the attitude is not correct. it is not modern. if law enforcement is not going to take you seriously -- if i own a home and i got home invasion, they just brushed you off. if you are a man, you get treated differently. a friend said, "you are all women, and that is the way it is." -- you are a woman, and that is the way it is." guest: i am sorry you had this experience. are around the country, law enforcement has been making great strides in changing behavior and training.

that does not mean that every circumstances and in the most appropriate manner. -- that does not mean that every circumstance is handled in the most appropriate manner. but there are programs so that we can make sure that people are up-to-date on the current understanding of the issue and the appropriate responses as well. there is turned over all the time in community organizations, and law enforcement is no different. but we do need to make sure that law enforcement response appropriately. i recommend that you contact the chief of the department, or the local chapter of coalition receiving the funds to see what they do about this. host: how often you get those reports, that police have acted inappropriately? guest: it is not just police but there may be some system breakdown. we get the reports probably every week.

it is not unusual. we try to respond by directing them to a local organization that can help them. we do not have a perfect society, but we're making huge strides. we will make resources available for people where they can turn to for help. host: in your view, our loss strict enough against domestic violence, -- are laws strict enough against domestic violence, teen violence, stalking? are the penalties strong enough? guest: i think the penalties are strong enough. it is our awareness and tolerance of it, whether we are going to do is up about it. -- whether we are going to do something about it. we want to change the behavior in the first instance, and far better to change the behavior from a preventive the standpoint rather than how we are going to punish somebody in the end.

we have more victims in the process if you wait for the punishment side of this. we want to improve the prevention side of the work so that we do not have the victims like this waiting for the appropriate response, or looking towards whether we are going to incarcerate somebody. i would rather we really focus our attention on how we prevent this in the first instance. host: when you work in the family court in new hampshire, did you know of strong penalties for domestic abusers? guest: in my case, i was on the family court docket, so we did not hear of the criminal court docket. most of the cases we heard at any way would have a one-year incarceration. strangulation was just made a felony offense, so the dynamic

is changing around the country. host: why wouldn't it be? guest: that is part of the cultural shift we are facing. people talked of it as choking. choking does not seem like a serious crime. what you think about putting off the blood supply -- the brain when you think about cutting off a -- what you think about cutting off the blood supply to the brain, it changes the court response and the public response. these other kinds of things we need to look for -- these are in the kinds of things that we need to be looking for. there are lots of things that determine our response in with the behavior actually is. host: texas, alison, hi. caller: i does wanted to say that -- i just wanted to say that i got out of our

relationship like this years ago, and i'm from a long line of abused women and some abuse demand. -- some abused men. it is not possible to get out of it. if that happens to you, you have got to get out of the house and file criminal charges. it is not always the easiest thing to do. but i found that the blogger i called myself a victim, that is all -- the longer i called myself a victim, that was all i was. often the victim back out if it -- but what do this, did know what to do that, they -- do not they don't want to do this, they do not want to do that, they do not want the ladies to grow up without a father or whatever. guest: i am glad for you that you were able to leave that abusive relationship and find the resources and help necessary.

for some people, as i said earlier, leaving is a dangerous situation, and unless they have resources, it is more dangerous. it is a complex issue. having good local crisis centers available at local community support for this will make a huge difference, and we are very committed and very pleased that you were able to get the help you needed. we want that kind of outcome for everybody. host: mary, bowling green, kentucky. caller: i was calling in response to what was just said. i am one of those women who tried to leave, tried to leave. as a woman before said, she came from a long line of abused women. i wanted to say that when i

tried to leave, a lot of times when i called law-enforcement -- i now have three assault and battery convictions on meat. -- on me. in situations where i was being beaten, in all three of those cases, i never even received an attorney in court. i was railroaded through the system. the result is that today i am a felon, and that applies to previous subjects, as unemployment. so i would like to say hat law enforcement needs to be educated on posttraumatic stress disorder. host: thank you, mary. guest: you raise an interesting issue about the problem of the lack of response, and women have no other chores, they act out in response because -- when women

have no other choice, they act out in response. i cannot respond to your specific circumstances, because i do not know what caused you to become a felon. but the leadership we provide around training and technical assistance of law enforcement is one of the most regressive systems we have, bu -- most aggressive assistance we have, both with violence and sexual assault, so that law enforcement knows how to respond, and prosecutors know how to prosecute cases appropriately. one of our signature grand is to provide those resources so that we can bring together the community that will support and appropriate response to domestic violence. hopefully it will spur

significant change around the country. host: in your years on the court, how often you hear from the man that it was self- defense, and how often did you agree with him? guest: if the woman was the perpetrator? host: right -- guest: you hear it. it is not all the time, but you do hear it. people have different interpretations of what happened. one of the signature programs of the office is training across all professions. it is incumbent upon every profession to receive appropriate training so that we know how to listen to the facts and on cover what was going on. -- uncover what was going on paying attention to the pattern and dynamics of behavior is the

critical function of the judge did the same thing with law enforcement when they are investigating assault. we are beginning to understand that not all domestic violence is a rose is a rose is a rose. there are different types of violence, and people commit violence in some cases to initiate the violence, the primary aggressor, but sometimes there are defensive acts, and they can be of men and women, in response to an assault. but it is important that you are listening to the whole dynamic of what happened, so that we can hear really who was the primary aggressor and who was simply trying to defend themself from an aggressive act. host: jeffery, a tacoma, washington, you are the last call. caller: thank you very much.

the last few minutes of this conversation answered similar questions i have -- some of the questions i have. i want to figure out how the evolution of our society has to gotten to the point where all men are so combative. we have always been in charge, always been the aggressor. but i heard that posttraumatic stress disorder seems to be a common term for people who are underneath the stress and have to behave in certain ways to release that stress. are things being done to address that it is a hostile environment sometimes were a man has to come a home to and be a part of the children, the spouse, fathers and mothers involved? guest: let me, if i can, because this is the last opportunity to talk --