host: the republicans could take

control of the house. a story in sight of "politico," this morning. the numbers on the screen if you would like to get involved in the conversation. for democrats, 202-737-0002. for republicans, 202-737-0001. for independents, 202-628-0205. you can also send us messages electronically. our e-mail address is journal@c- span.org. you can also send us a message through twitter, twitter.com/c- spanwj. here is the headline in "politico," this morning. "the white house is issuing a man the battle stations called the democrats with a public warning that the house of representatives could fall into

republican hands this fall of democrats cannot mount aggressive campaigns. >> a lot of seats will be up. a lot of contested seats. people will have a choice to make this fall. there are enough seats in play that it could cause republicans to gain control, there is no cut -- no doubt about that. host: "while robert gibbs went on to focus on the issues, he made clear that the white house's strategy for the fall is to draw attention to republican leaders and the specter of republican victory. " we want to talk to you about your thoughts about whether or not the republicans could take control this fall. raleigh, n.c., jim, you are on

"the washington journal." caller: the message from robert gibbs is an attempt to wake up america. manning the battle stations, tarring the republicans with the past, that is comical. they have created the ultimate contrast of american history. a socialist takeover of a capitalist system. our country has had its problems in the past with inequality and discrimination, but we have never moved from our capitalistic system.

host: who is your representative there? does that person have a chance to be reelected? caller: i think that democrats are the ones who are going to have trouble. we are seeing strong races in the eastern part of north carolina. just the sentiment, people are starting to see the administration nationalize the banks take care of the health- care industry. numerous situations, like the oil spill. how many days did it take the administration to become engaged in the oil spill. you do not just stand back and let it go. host: independent line, philip, thanks for waiting.

caller: thank you for allowing people to call in and speak on the subjects that you present. c-span does the best job that i know of. the point is that we are basically just following the same pathway each and every election term with what we are doing as citizens to elect people that have the know-how and the potential tohost: we aro

michael in san diego. democratic line. caller: i noticed that you use the word could gain control. i think that he was trying to stir the base, get them going. i believe that the president has done an excellent job and i support him 100%. host: from where you sit in san diego, does the base need starring? caller: it always does, i think. it is just a constant thing. host: thank you for your call. more from the article, "the comment about the ku political

danger served as concern and resolve from the white house who are sometimes accused of paying too little attention to the political fortunes of the democrats in congress. but former republican national committee chairman ed gillespie predicted that the white house tactic of chasing gop gaps would backfire." caller: with regards to your topic, if you look at history after the new deal the republicans took back the house and took back all of spending that was occurring. lots of major products that change the country were developed. unemployment lines were cut. jobs were created. the country got back on track. that is what we need now.

thank you. host: thank you. tony, independent line. welcome. caller: thank you, good morning. i wanted to concur with a lot out of florida. we have too many special interest groups involved in politics. it is money dominated. the only viable choices that we have are backed up by corporate interests. we will not see much change occurring. unfortunately all that we have right now is bush-lite. obama cannot do much in terms of change, given the opposition. but they will not look at the military expenditures. that is where much of the money is going. we really need to change the system. host: hollywood, florida. democratic line. go ahead.

caller: i cannot imagine people going back to a party that created this terrible situation. not only in this country, but all over the world. the united states has control over the world bank and the imf. it is obvious. they hate government. they want to get in there and look as incompetent as they can. or do nothing. this is their record. i cannot imagine anyone who loves government and democracy voting republican. i tell you what, the definition of fascism, the classic definition, is when business overtakes government. that is exactly what they are attempting to do. privatization of everything.

i would hate to live in a completely privatize the world. host: who is your representative of their caller: tolzman -- out there? caller: shultzman. and i never get off his back. i lived in sweden, their brand of government, i love that. people do not realize. host: we will leave it there. more from the article, "white house adviser, david axelrod, said that the president's decision to give a recess appointment to the chief of the medicare program was needed to lift the issue above politics,

blaming republicans for stalling nominees." we will talk more about what is in store for congress with susan ferrechio of "the washington examiner," she will be here at about 7:45. tony, go ahead. caller: rudolph had a good comment. the refrigerator was what he was referring to. we have got to cut spending and get unemployment down. i believe that the spending is completely out of control. if you look at mr. bush and the deficits that he had, and then if you look at the deficits we have created, i think it is pretty much black and white. the refrigerator is one of the industrial inventions rudolph was talking about. caller: -- host: tony, who is

your representative in texas? caller: [no audio] host: all right, tony is gone. "democrats are facing a final window for legislative accomplishment and little chance that they can get more than a handful of bills approved before election season slams shut. georgia, independent line. your thoughts about republicans possibly gaining control of the house of representatives? caller: yes, sir. thank you for c-span. i wanted to say that i did not think that the republicans would take back over the house. it is too many seats for them to take over and i do not see the democrats losing those seats. you have them just blaming the obama administration for overspending. you have to look at the

situation that they came in on. we have just got to deal with it, that is where the country is that. thank you. host: this message coming across twitter, "democrats will lose the house and five senate seats. the base on the right will be out, the base on the left will not." joe, good morning. caller: thank you for c-span. i am just amazed that republicans are able to divorce themselves from what happened eight years previous to abolish election. they seem to think that they had nothing to do with the mess we are in. that had nothing to do with george bush. they complain that we are going to take away their tax cuts, but they cannot extend unemployment

benefits? they have plenty of money for war, but they want to extend unemployment benefits by letting it go because we have no money for that, but there is plenty of money for war they are the ones who started the war in iraq. they are the ones who instigated the war in afghanistan. they are the ones who instigated the medicare that was not paid for. host: democrats are in the white house, they control congress right now, when does the democratic party take responsibility for the direction of the country? caller: let's take a look at what they have done. they have managed to take a lot -- create a lot more jobs. we were losing jobs before obama took office, now we are gaining jobs.

this is an ocean liner, not a whirlpool. we cannot turn on a dime. that is where we have been under republican rule. host: we believe it there. in "the wall street journal," this morning, "a deadly blast rocked the capital of uganda, killing dozens in apparent terror attack, killing crowds watching the final world cup soccer match. the death toll from the explosion has risen to 64, according to the associated press. one american was killed." back to the phones, on our lines for independencts, what do you think about the possibility of republicans taking over?

caller: i think that they give the american people an illusion that there's a difference, but there is not. it is good cop, bad cop. and whenever there is a critical vote needed you always have a few people crossing the line. corporations own the presidency. it is a divide that is artificial, designed to separate the leap from this country. they have been moving forward since the assassination of john f. kennedy. host: in "politico," abbie phillips writes that "for many

liberals this is the summer of their discontent. they are now contemplating a slowing economic recovery and a good chance that republican gains in november could make it even more difficult to enact the obama agenda. two recent essays framed the debate raging within the progressive community over why obama has not lived up to their expectations and have liberals should proceed. journalist eric alderman called the obama presidency a big disappointment for progressives and blames a broken system that he says allows a minority party to rule with impunity and the special interests and big money to dictate legislative policy." we want to remind you that in about half of an hour we will be talking with susan ferrechio about the summer agenda for congress. she is the chief congressional

correspondent with "the washington examiner," she will be here at 7:45. delaware, democratic line, go ahead. hello? may? may is not there. let's take a look at twitter. we have a message, "i think that the republicans will take control and our country will be better off than with one party control. we have another call from raleigh, north carolina. are you with us? bob, go ahead. caller: i do not understand how people would want to give republicans back the house and the senate. i know that this is a democratic

administration and congress, but they're all republicans that work with democrats on bills but when it comes to the floor, they turn against each other. republicans said the same thing at the national governors association meeting. i do not understand why there is this disconnect with people. host: "political doubts have been waves -- raised all lawsuits coming against arizona. democratic governors raised deep anxiety about the obama administration's suit against the arizona immigration law, warning -- worrying that it could cost the democrats in a vulnerable election.

while the weak economy dominated the official agenda of the summer meeting here at the national governors association, concerned over immigration policy pervaded the closed-door session between democratic governors and white house officials and simmered throughout the three day event." the lead story in "the washington times," "arizona warned of a second lawsuit. aero -- eric holder spoke over the weekend in an interview on cbs on sunday, saying that the pre-emption argument, the strongest initial argument against the law, but federal officials will be watching for profiling. if that is the case, we do have the tools to bring a suit on that basis." back to the phones.

spokane, washington. your thoughts on the possibility of republicans taking over the control of the house in november? caller: first of all, if you watched robert gibbs on a daily basis half of what comes out of his mouth is fallacy. i would agree with your caller from a couple of calls back in saying that the left-right paradigm is an illusion to keep everyone in check. the other thing that i wanted to call about was the point out -- why is there this huge media blackout on the oil spill? why is that not the story you are covering right now? they are poisoning people in the gulf. their heat -- there are huge

stories to be done but there is a media blackout as far as the eye can see. host: joe, let's show you what is happening in the news regarding bp. it is the lead story in "the philadelphia inquirer." "and the oil company said that a new cap could be the most effective, but results could be days away. bp works on more secure well cap," that is the lead story in "usa today." "and bp is in talks with u.s. independent oil and gas producers on a deal worth as much as $10 billion that could include stakes in their vast alaska operations, according to

people from the year with the matter. a deal, which would go a long way to helping bp cope with financial stresses of paying for the cleanup of the gulf oil spill could be breached in the coming weeks, though there is no guarantee that it will succeed. savannah, ga., democratic line. steve, you are on "washington journal." caller: it amazes me how the republicans always have the ability to have their way with anything. they want to make this the new cold war, socialism, because the president had to step in to save the automobile industry. which would have led to a lot of people losing their jobs that rely on that industry.

they have to step in for the banks so that the people do not lose their pensions. money is in the banks. but they call it socialism. one of your callers use the word, fascism. again, i am amazed how they can remove themselves from what happened under president bush, blaming this president for everything that happens. it is unbelievable. if the american people reelect these republicans back into office, they deserve what they get. host: one more item having to do with the coverage of the oil spill in the gulf clean-up, we will have live coverage this morning on c-span 3 of the first public meeting of the national commission on the deep water

rise in oil spill and national drilling -- horizon oil spill and national drilling. if you are looking for more details, you can find them on our website, c-span.org. back to the phones, austin, texas, go ahead. caller: listen, i just want to make a comment about the first guy that called from north carolina. he was talking about how the obama administration is socialistic. you hear all of this socialist, communist garbage that the republicans keep throwing out there. they are the biggest liars in the world. i do not want people to believe that. it is just nonsense. i know that obama has been a touch disappointing, not being

able to do the things that he wanted to do. and i am not so blind that i cannot see the faults of the democrats. big business does run everything. , but we do not have a lot of good choices right now. instead of sarah palin and john mccain, that is all i can say. host: in "politico," this morning, "the sarah palin political action committee has taken its fund-raising to a higher level, suggesting she has begun building a more sophisticated political operation in the place of a bare bones organization powered mostly by her scrappy online presence.

the committee spent nearly twice as much, $142,000, more than it did in any previous quarter, going to risk building and fund- raising, according to its first major direct mail campaign." you can read more about that online at politico.com. minneapolis, republican line. go ahead. minneapolis? caller: no. host: ok. caller: but i would like to make a comment. host: ok, go ahead. caller: this is dave from brookfield, florida. host: what you think about the republicans possibly gaining control of the house of representatives? caller: as a republican i think it is time that we take a back.

the obama administration is nothing but -- shoot -- host: we will leave it there. lucas, oklahoma. go ahead. caller: a lot of us noticed that the republicans in congress, during health care reform we noticed that when they got control of congress they were going to repeal much of what happened during health care reform. realistically, how possible is this for the republicans to repeal what happened? what parts would actually be viable for them to repeal

through legislative action? host: are you saying it is impossible? host: -- caller: i am not saying it is impossible, but realistically in health care reform there were stages to what would actually happen and what would be affected in the sense of what is going on in the u.s.. i remember hearing key republicans stating that they would work against the old system, working against health care reform. realistically, what could be changed? host: in "the washington post," this morning, the lead item, "the afghan president plans to seek the removal of up to 50 former taliban officials from a u.n. terrorism blacklist in a gesture intended to advance

political reconciliation talks with insurgents, according to a senior afghan official. the afghan government has looked for years to delist former television viewers who it says have cut ties with the islamist movement. but the campaign to call names from a list, which imposes a travel ban and other restrictions, has begun to press for a political settlement." george, washington journal. what you think of republicans possibly taking control of the house of representatives? caller: i believe that they are misreading the american people. american people want the budget balanced, but not on the backs of the unemployed and disenfranchised.

in michigan, you know that we are at about 20% unemployment here. this extension is likely going to hurt them in the wrong -- long run. there are votes that they will not get between the senate and house, clearly misreading the american people. they should be taking a look at other areas. like the letter from ron paul, getting the troops back home, getting out of these wars we have no sense being in. host: who is your represented about there? caller: bart stupak. host: how do you see the election playing out? caller: i believe that the democrat will get in.

this is a completely democratic area. i think that a republican has no chance right here. host: in "the philadelphia inquirer," this morning, at "a gloomy picture. leaders of the national debt commission discussed the struggle to get spending under control. alan simpson and erskine bowles said at a meeting of the national governors association that everything needed to be considered, including curtailing popular tax breaks, and a trigger mechanism for gaining medicare advantages." caller: 90% of our nations that can be contributed to three presidencies.

reagan, the first bush, and the second bush. these other fiscal conservatives. the people that said that deficits do not matter. now they do matter? i will be surprised if republicans take over the house again. i truly believe that americans that are foolish enough to go down that road get what they deserve. host: from kentucky we have this e-mail, "the american electorate now realizes that about -- the obama speeches do not match reality. but the republicans need to have a detailed plan as to how they're going to point us in the right direction -- just criticizing obama is not enough." this would message, "memo to republicans, bush and the republicans are out of power.

please stop blaming and go start governing." alabama, go ahead. caller: i wanted to bring up a point. i was a republican for years. the way they have stalled everything and the way they are treating the american people today, i would never vote for them again. they need to realize one thing. there are 20 million people out of work and those people have families. their kin is being affected by the unemployed. i know that as a republican, i know where my loyalties lie. there are draft dodgers in the house. host: who is on the ticket where you are?

caller: actually, none of these people are affected this midterm. we're just going have to do the local. host: but who represents you in the house of representatives? caller: mike rogers. he is not up for reelection. host: he has no opposition? caller: i do not think so. host: thank you for the call. this e-mail, "considering the inept nature of these politicians, we are much better off with gridlock." jackie, ohio. go ahead. caller: i just wanted to say that i am a christian. all of these things going on, it is disturbing in terms of the christianity of things. republicans hold themselves up as the christian people but all i see is a. -- hate.

all i want is controlled. it has nothing to do with helping people. -- all that they want is controlled. has nothing to do with helping people. i am a fifth grade teacher and they act more mature than the people in this congress. it is ridiculous. host: we will leave it there, jackie. robert gibbs was a guest on "meet the press," yesterday. he had this to say about republican leadership on capitol hill. >> the financial calamity, the man they want to put in as speaker of the house, he believes that the front -- financial calamity is as big as an ant. a man that was apologizing to

the ceo of the oil companies, not the people of the gulf. john maynard, joe barton, you will hear those things that lot about what you would get with republicans gaining control. host: "republicans oppose stimulus funds. a new analysis finds that paying unemployment benefits does not deter the jobless from still seeking work, throwing more fuel on the heated debate that has dominated congress for much of the past several months. out of one of benefits have become the chief battleground in president obama's call to passing new round of stimulus spending." gainesville, florida, independent line. go ahead and. caller: thank you for c-span. thank you for providing an

objective point of view in the news. i don't think a republican will ever regain any control of any house for anyone here in florida they can understand that the republicans are always against the working class of america. they're always against managed care or anything that the united states republicans oppose. they are anti-american and i would not like to vote for someone who is against our nation. host: i am " york times -- in "the new york times," this morning, "obama to outline a plan for cut to hiv infections.

president obama will unveil a new national strategy this week to curb the aids epidemic by slashing the number of infections in increasing the number of people would get care and treatment." you can read more about that in "the new york times," in hard copy or online. joan, texas, republican line. good morning. caller: i am voting republican. host: you think that the republicans have a chance to regain control of the house of representatives? caller: i do believe that. i believe that the things going on in the house of representatives and how they are representing themselves right now, i believe that the republicans have a chance. i spoke to many people from the other party.

they are switching their votes. host: down there in fort worth, what is the biggest concern of the people that you talk to? what is the issue that is going to help the republicans regained control of the house? caller: i was told that i could not bring up immigration by your person. that is one of the big things here. i have people that rent from us that our mexican -- are mexican. they are against the illegals. it is a debt -- it is a big thing down here. they cannot find jobs. people without cards are working. we know one mexican that cannot find a job, he is on unemployment right now, which he cannot get. we are subsidizing him for his rent, which we cannot afford.

host: we are moving on'd democratic line, michigan. go ahead. caller: first i would like to make a statement. republicans are for business and democrats are for people. the problems that we have the day started with president reagan. continued under the first bush, including giving businesses incentives to move their jobs overseas. drafted under the republicans. to the past president bush, i do not think that people realize how much the cost of these wars have contributed in bringing us to the brink, along with financial disaster. host: how does this play into

the upcoming election? caller: people forget how we got the point we are at and they are dissatisfied with things not changing fast enough. but i do not think that they realize how deep hole was that was dug. even in iraq, just like the bombings in new on the -- uganda, we have increased the hatred against us throughout the world. host: we will leave it there. in "the washington post," this morning, "1 coalition of groups hoping to restart the grass roots in an effort to reach peak the success of the tea party, 170 liberal and civil

rights groups are forming a coalition that they hope will match the movement's political energy and influence after 18 months of foundering. the large-scale attempt at liberal unity, dubbed it one nation, will try to revive themes that energized the progressive grass-roots two years ago. in a row -- repurchasing of barack obama's former campaign slogan, organizers are demanding all the change they voted for." "tea party candidates not toning down, the gop are getting concerned. haley barbour, drawing national attention for going against the obama economic policies, suggesting it might be time to gather an army.

martha roby, 33, eight two term montgomery city councilman who has the backing of the top republican congressional leaders in her effort to become the second woman ever elected to the house of representatives from alabama." back to the phones, linda, you are on "washington journal." caller: i do not think it has anything to do with republicans or democrats. i think that what it is, it has something to do with the bill the burgersb theuil -- buildabergers. host: we will leave it there. in a "of the new york post," this morning -- in "the new york post," this morning, "democrats

and president take a beating on the issue. all the polls show that the public is overwhelmingly opposed to president obama on illegal immigration, but the reality is even worse. the latest poll from gallup has all the bleak numbers for obama we have seen in other polls. in this one, 50% favor the arizona law." colesville, tennessee. republican line. go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. are you still there? host: go ahead. caller: i am sick and tired of people blaming president bush for everything that has gone on. we had a great economic tax situation under president bush. when he took office, almost right afterwards 9/11 to a cold and we had a hard time.

we did have prosperity after the pickup. in 2006 we had the best deployment record of anyone in -- the best employment record of anyone in the country. when the democrats took over in 2007, ever since then we had nothing but economic problems. nothing. host: just to wrap this up, you think that there is a distinct possibility that republicans will take control of the house? caller: i hope that they do. it is time to get back to fiscal responsibility. host: we will leave it there. we will take a short break and when we come back we will talk about the summer agenda of the congress with susan ferrechio of "the washington examiner." you are watching "washington journal," and we will see you in a couple of minutes.

♪ hal >> what world leaders from the white house to parliaments around the globe, from this week and the past 25 years, with the c-span video library. online, all free. washington and the world, on line in your way. >> this week on "the communicators," the maryland attorney general and cable europe president, tonight on c- span 2.

>> for a snapshot of washington and the 111th congress, the c- span congressional directory, i reference guide to supreme court justices, house members, state justices and more. online pabst c-span.org -- online at c-span.org/store. c-span, bringing you a direct link to politics, history, and nonfiction books, created by america's cable companies. >> "washington journal" continues. host: susan ferrechio, from "the washington examiner," joining us to talk about the washington summer agenda. they do not have a lot of time before they break again for august. what are the top five items on their agenda before they leave again? guest: you are right, they do not have a lot of time.

particularly in the house. it is the senate where most of the action takes place. it will take about five weeks. depending on whether or not they want to stick around. the big thing in this work. will be the nomination of elena kagan -- the big thing in this work period will be the nomination of elena kagan and environmental and climate legislation. that will take up a lot of time in this work session. that is really big. they have also got to reconcile a work -- war funding bill, matching them up before it is sent to the president. that will also be a fight because not everyone agrees on how much money should be spent. lots of people do not like spending more money on the war. they also have yet to complete

financial regulatory reform. president obama won the this finished before the july 4 recess, but they were not able to get it done. partly because of the death of senator byrd. there were also problems with republicans not liking some of the fees in the bill. they have got to get that out of the way. unemployment benefits, another issue that democrats were hoping to pass weeks ago. partly because of the republicans, partly because of their own caucus. those are some of the things they will start tackling right away. host: we will try to go through as many of those as we can in the next 45 minutes. let's start with the nomination of elena kagan. the senate judiciary committee is meeting tomorrow. will they vote her onto the floor tomorrow?

guest: it sounds like that might happen. they may want more time to review her answers from the nomination hearing that took place over a week ago. it may be delayed, but that does not mean that it will not be confirmed. she is pretty much clear to go for floor consideration. most people think that she will easily be confirmed by the entire senate as well. there are some republicans trying to slow the process down, throwing in monkey wrenches, just because some of them do not like her. but i think that everyone pretty much understands that she will be the next supreme court justice. host: in "roll call," this morning, "congressional democrats are facing a final

window for legislative accomplishments and little chance that they could get a handful of bills through before election season slams shut." the fact that we are moving to an off-year election in november, is that putting more pressure on the democratically controlled congress to get something done? guest: technically, when elections approach, congress gets less done. it is almost a mathematical equation. on the other hand, democrats know that this election is about getting the base out. one way to do that is to move issues that are important to them. climate and energy could really help to bring out the base. immigration reform alone, trying to move one of those bills would do wonders for giving up the senate vote, although i do not think that they will take it up. it is true, many democrats might want to get some important bills

done before they go home and talk to constituents. but that is let -- less likely to happen because others in areas where there are a lot of republican voters, those democrats will not want to take up anything terribly controversial. host: we are talking about the summer agenda of congress with susan ferrechio of "the washington examiner." if you would like to be part of the conversation this morning, give us a call. for democrats, 202-737-0002. for republicans, 202-737-0001. for independents, 202-628-0205. if you have called in within the last 30 days, send us an e-mail or message through twittered. our first call comes from sacramento, california. independent line. dave, go ahead. caller: i hope that voters will not vote democrat or republican. i am not trying to push a

particular party or any smaller third party, but i would like to see people actually put people in that do not know how to get things done in the quote regular way. we have had eight years of republicans and democrats and neither of them are getting anything done. that unemployment bill, it got stepped on. harry reid ignored it, pushing that it was all about unemployment. host: dave is concerned about the unemployment bill. where does it stand right now? guest: the unemployment bill is attached to other legislation, other spending was attached to it. democrats realize that that was

not going to go over well with a lot of folks in congress who are worried about spending, particularly deficit spending. with just unemployment deficits alone, in the house bill that was passed at the end of june, the senate has not been willing to move this piece of legislation. some of the members want to get paid. the deficit right now is $1.30 trillion. they want to find something in the federal budget to pay for it. there is one democrat and several republicans who said that if that was the case, they would vote for it. if there were one vote short, they would have to wait for the government of west virginia to appoint a replacement for senator byrd, who would likely be a democrat. you would assume that this person would vote for the employment fell. host: portland, oregon.

republican line. go ahead. caller: with regards to the energy bill in the senate, what is your sense of the potential for cap and trade making it through? that is very controversial. there are a lot of republicans in the senate and across america people are outraged and concern. this domination of the economy is something that we just cannot have in an economic recovery. guest: i do not see it possible, cap and trade, putting a price on carbon or setting up a system where permits to pollute our traded -- are traded. i do not think that that happen between now and november.

there is no appetite in the house or the senate for something like that, particularly the reflections of senators that do not want to take on a bill like that in a reelection. the lame duck session after the election, that bill might still be being worked on. there could be some kind of element that could cap car been added to the bill. the plan that they're talking about now that would be the most popular is capping utilities. not the entire economy, just utilities. that is one item floating around right now that is gaining traction. it is a long shot for this congress to move something like that. host: harry reid and nancy pelosi are not necessarily on the same page regarding this legislation, correct?

guest: her previous cap and trade bill was more aggressive than anything the senate could approve. partly because she is from california, much more on the left on these views with proactive climate change brought legislation. harry reid is from nevada, a swing state, a bit more moderate on those issues. he is not exactly beating the drums for climate change legislation. he is up for reelection and is avoiding anything that could raise energy prices. host: matt, you are on [captioning performed by national captioning institute] -- you are on "washington journal." caller: what is going on with it the immigration bill? guest: i lot of people want to know that.

nobody really knows the answer. it has been talked about a lot by president obama and harry reid, nancy pelosi. they have even gone and said that they're going to try to do something this year. the problem, first of all, is the time element. there are only a few weeks left before the august recess and after that only a few weeks before the session ends officially. on top of energy and climate reform, it would be unbelievably difficult for either chamber to take up. no one really thinks that that is realistically going that been in this congress. some people talk about next congress, but that would be even more difficult. democrats are likely to have a smaller majority for the republican takeover of the

house. there would be much less likely to move immigration reform. -- they would be much less likely to move immigration reform. it is a very dividing, partisan issue. it does not seem to go well when congress tries to take it out. host: is there evidence that some people are dragging their feet on this legislation until the dust settles on the lawsuits going back and forth between washington and arizona? .

caller: the biggest item that should be on the agenda [inaudible] and extension of the unemployment benefits. we know republicans can make the pwebig government make promises. but for the democrats no better. i voted for democrats and president obama, but there is money in the stimulus panic they can use to extend unemployment. and you have the power of the executive power and he can do things to make people get money to pay bills. host: george, are you

unemployed? caller: i'm unemployed and sitting here with a lot of unemployed people waiting to see if we can get a job this morning or whether they are going to extend the unemployment or stepextend benefits. they have money, unspent money. host: george, will your vote depend on whether or not this unemployment extension is passed or not? caller: i'm standing in the hall and we are all democrats and we are sitting at the hall waiting to get a job. guest: well, supposedly there one job for every five job seekers, so there is a lot of frustration when the unemployment benefit stalled. and they ran out in june. 99 weeks, 26 weeks for state unemployment and 73 or 74 for the federal government. that program ended in june. so, until they pass something

that money won't be there. one argument the caller was making there is money in the budget that could be used without adding to the deficit that could help pay for the benefits. that is the money from the $787 billion stimulus. that is one deal offered to democrats in congress by some members. george voinovich from ohio he said why not pay for half the bill with stimulus money and you will have my vote so they could get the 60 votes which is the number to move it. democrats don't want to do that. they say, one, unemployment benefits should be emergency spending and there is no requirement they be paid for. and the stimulus money they believe should remain in the stimulus budget because they think it is helping to create jobs and stimulate the economy so they don't want to shift it from the stimulus package into

unemployment benefits even though some say that would be an easy solution. host: next up, california. on the line for republicans. dan kwrarpl. caller: actually i'm a republican. host: ok. caller: i was going to mention the tea party thing they are trying to get their own tea party group something to answer a back but they need to understand that the tea party was merely average americans, sick and tired of spending and big government who decided to take things into their own hands. they did not do it out of rebuttal to anybody but out of frustration. host: thank you for your call. let's move on to greensberg, indiana, on the line for independents, martin. go ahead. caller: yes, i would like to the question on the unemployment

benefits is that -- there's no jobs out there for anybody to get. i have been looking for over a year and can't find a job. what do the peel think about that -- what do the people think about that sitting there in government? they get their big checks every week and get their health insurance. why can't we get it? i have worked for 34 years in a plant and then i get ousted out. guest: that is definitely being heard in congress. what you are hear is floor speeches and hallway conversations where the lawmakers are talking about people back home needing these benefits. then, conversely, you have folks on the other side saying, well, that is fine as long as we pay for them. because if we add to the deficit these workers will be paying the

price down the road. so, it is either pay now or pay later. so you have the two battling philosophies in congress that have stopped -- everyone is feeling compassion for people that don't have jobs but a different philosophy about how to solve the problem and a fear that adding to the deficit will lead to more joblessness. the republicans also feel one way to add more jobs to the economy, instead of just paying people to be unemployed, would be further tax cuts and ways to help small businesses produce more jobs. so, again you have two different philosophies in congress and the gridlock in the middle as nothing is getting done. we are not seeing the tax breaks for small businesses and not giving unemployment benefits to people that don't have work. host: after about almost 2 1/2 weeks of conference meetings regarding the financial regulatory reform package it is

done. what is the next step? can they get in passed in time for the election? guest: i think so. they may try to pass it this week. they came up a vote short right before the recess and that is because there was a bank tax added at the last minute in conference where both chambers try to reconcile it and they added bank fees, about $20 million. that didn't sit well with some moderate republicans who planned on voting for the bill. so, they took it out. the recess time was spent by some republicans deciding if they like the bill. they may be about one vote short. if governor mansion of west virginia appoints a democrat to the seat this week they will come up with the 60 votes to pass the bill and i'm told they could do it this week. host: regarding the point out by governor mansion, what are you

hearing in there is a possibility he may appoint himself? guest: that is possibility. he is more likely to appoint a place holder. i think he wants to find out if he can hold a special election in november to fill the rest of the term. that is what he wants to find out but in the interim i can he may appoint somebody and there is a lot of pressure to get a democrat in because they need the vote. host: dallas, texas, on the line for democrats. katherine? you are on the "washington journal" with susan ferrechio. caller: i think that president obama ought to do an executive order as far as the unemployment. i know republicans, democrats alike calling in and keep saying they need money to pay their bills or whatever because there are no jobs.

but on the other hand you have conservative he is and what have you talking about the senate. so, they can't have it both ways. if you don't have a job, if you are republican, democrat, independent, whatever it is, you are going to lose homes, you won't be able to pay for utilities and on top of that, even though you do get the unemployment you will be in a tax burden because you have to pay taxes on that and you have no money to pay taxes. so, it is a no-win situation but the way the economy is you have to have something to make people function in their daily lives. that is i think should happen. and congress is not going to pass anything because when they had the majority of democrats, the democrats sat on their behinds. that is why us democrats are very, very skeptical about voting this year. because when they had the majority they want to go along with the republicans and didn't

want to go anything. host: you have given us a lot to work with there. guest: it is interesting she was saying toward the end. there is a lot of dissatisfaction in the democratic base because they had a sizable majority in the house, 30-something-odd seats and in the senate they had 60 votes. for a while they had the number of votes needed to move any bill regardless of what the republicans had to say about it. but what you found was that within the democratic caucus they are not all in agreement about anything and you see that in majorities in congress. there are a lot of moderate democrats and quite a few this year because many of the n newcomnew comers came from states where there were previous republicans and they won't always go along with the democratic bails or they will not -- base or they will not be re-elected. so you saw more gridlock than the base was expecting. back to the unemployment and

executive order, i think what will happen, they will get that extra vote from west virginia and be able to pass it and that will happen and it will be retroactive and will include the june benefits that people didn't get and will probably run up until the end of november. so, i think those unemployment benefits are coming. they are just slightly delayed. host: another direct action by the president was recess appointment of dr. donald berwick to run the centers for medicare and medicaid services. tell us a little bit about where the confirmation has been stalled and will this have further repercussions as we move toward november? guest: this didn't sit well with the republicans thinking it should have been aired before the public and lawmakers and should have had a chance to debate instead of having him put in place. that further divides the

congress. partisanship has been a real problem particularly this year and this doesn't help so the republics say. but the democrats felt it would be dragged out and may turn into a political weapon. berwick is a little controversial because he is going to run medicare but part of what he was saying earlier in his career is he admired the british system and he also was a proponent of rationing. he has made comments like that in the past, so he is not solely supported by everybody. and republicans in particular wanted a chance to try to block him basically and they won't get that and they feel frustrated. host: susan ferrechio is the chief congressional correspondent with the washington examiner. before coming there, she was with cq five years covering house republican and democratic

leadership and spent time reporting for the "miami herald" on education issues and 2000 presidential election recount. she was at the "miami herald" from 1999 to 2001. back to the phones, shreveport, louisiana,dale, on our line for republicans. caller: thank you and good bless our military. susan, how about answering this for me. where our debt is headed, and then like c-span, we have c-s n c-span, they did the healthcare bill behind closed doors and we have c-span, and just like they are going to next they are going to get their amnesty for 20 million aliens and i hope they get every damn democrat job, now they have acorn, black panthers involved in everything. i don't know where this country is headed and it is not looking

good right now in this country. host: susan? guest: well, the debt is $13 trillion and looks like it will be $14 trillion next year. certainly the government is working on ways to address that. in congress there is a commission the president has assembled and their job is to look at ways to cut spending and reduce the deficit and get the economy going in a more healthy direction -- the federal budget, rather. and one thing they are thinking about doing is potentially making cuts or raises taxes has been this discussion of a value-added tax that sort of rumored at this point but some people have mentioned it as a way to raise revenue to get rid of the deficit. that is one idea out there. but it is something that lawmakers are talking about and thinking about and the president is, too. he has made it a priority by

establishing this commission and when it comes up with some kind of finding and what should happen congress will vote on it and decide whether or not to take it up. host: this is the president's national debt commission and they reported -- or were speaking with the national governors association over the weekend. you can find some reporting on that in the philadelphia inquirier this morning and several other papers. back to the phones. anniston, alabama, on the line for unders, wes, go ahead. caller: yes, this is wes from alabama. i'm an independent, i usually lean more toward the fiscally democrat side. conservatives. maybe you could discuss a little bit the history of the congressional races comparing had time to 1994 when president clinton was in office and compare to newt gingrich winning during that time. a

and, two, is alabama even doing a congressional race at this time? if you could discuss that, i would appreciate it. host: who is your representative in congress, wes? caller: his name is mike rodgers. host: does he have a challenger or is he unopposed? caller: i'm not sure. guest: i don't think rogers has a super competitive race. every member is up i've two years. in the senate there are a dozen or so up but that rotates every year. there are different senators up for election. you compare had to 1994, 1994 was a big year. it was a takeover. the house switched from democrat to republican. that was a mid term election for president clinton. he took heavy losses. people always expect that the second year election after a president takes office that they

lose seats. that is what happened historically. people expect that this year as well the occurrence. there could be enough in the house where the g.o.p. could take over but that is a long shot. it is probably more likely the majority for democrats will prevail. but it will be much smaller. same goes in the senate. in the senate there are many seats up for grabs, and the republicans stand to pick up quite a few but probably not enough to take over and to be a majori majority. you have to have 51 seats. so you probably have democrats in charge again next year, but with the harder margins to work in. they will have to really -- it will be tougher to move any big legislative items because they won't really be near the 60 votes in the senate and it will be tougher to get cooperation in the house as well. so, some people are comparing this to 1994. it is not quite the same.

but the same premise exists and that is obama's first mid term election so there will probably be significant losses. host: what kinds of shifts in the administration's policy as far as dealing with congress might we expect to see if there is a tighter number between the democrats and republicans in the house or in fact the republicans take over? guest: i think that will change the dynamic. right now, you know, it is a little like a board game. when you watch the congress and the white house interact, they are just trying to move the ball as far as they can. they need to move the piece on the chessboard while they have the opportunity. now, they are not going to necessarily have that opportunity next year. so you probably will see more effort for real cooperation because they are going to have to work with republicans or they are not going to get anything done and that looks terrible for the president because he will be

up for re-election in twelve and he can't look like a lame duck. host: mary on the line for democrats san mateo, california. caller: the question i have is maybe a little confusing. i hear democrats and republicans talking about small business as the engine of recovery, yet there is this legislation that is completely stalled about regulatory reform for the beg companies, the corporations. so, if small business is the engine why do we care in corporations continue to get a lot of breaks? maybe you can comment on that and why nobody ever talks about that. guest: well, the pwebig bank reform, are you talking about the financial regulatory reform? host: she's gone but assume she is. guest: the financial regulatory reform bill that deals with big banks would presumably address some of the issues that took place before the financial

meltdown in 2007 and 2008. what congress wants to do is put safeguards in in place to keep the financial sector from melting down again. one thing this bill would do is tighten the rules, create oversight and protect the consumers. as for small businesses there are efforts under way to try to do that. there is a bill that we have not discussed in the senate a small business lending tax bill that probably will come up. they have already crossed the first test vote in the senate and need to debate and pass it. that will probably happen in the coming weeks. they are always talking about ways to cut taxes for small business. the republicans want to be more aggressive than the tkpls and both -- than the democrats and i think there will be more things happening with small business. host: democrats avoiding spending fights in roll call. although likely one spending

bill will come to the floor during the three-week work period that begins tuesday democrats have multiple incentives to avoid appropriations fights before november. democrats, with a few exceptions, are the only ones submitting house earmark requests this year which republicans hope will strengthen their hand to portray the majority party as oblivious to deficit concerns. guest: congress is supposed to pass a dozen appropriations bills every year to set spending levels for the federal government. that is their primary mission in congress. they don't always do that, particularly if there is an election coming up. they -- democrats don't want to lay bare before the voters all of the spending and what they are spending it on. so what they will do is and what they will do in this case as kathleen pointed out, they will wait until of the election is over and come back and tackle

spending. what may happen is they may combine everything into one big bill a omnibus bill or mini because. -- it is not likely that you will see an agriculture bill for that. you won't see much else happening on the spending. host: next up is cockeysville, maryland, robin on the line for republicans. caller: good morning. what i would like to see for the summer session is a more unified approach. you get out of the war, have immigration reform, you have the stimulus package and you take that money and re tratrain potel employees. we are no longer a manufacture based society and you used to work with g.m. or others and they are not coming back. we need education.

we need to compete technically. that won't happen overnight t. will take years. and i hate to say this, it will sound -- i don't know what -- but some of the call there's call in saying i captain find a job -- saying i can't find a job. there needs to an better -- more education, a better presentation and they will get that if they have training. i just don't know why we can't combine it in one and say save the money with the war and train our society. it will take a few years that. is the the only way to get out of this mess. guest: well, there is nothing going on in congress right now but job training. that is an interesting suggesti suggestion. but the idea of taking money away to use money that is spent on the war or other things is a popular idea. there are members who are tired

of spending money on the war. the latest round congress needs to move in the coming weeks for the war supplemental bill is at minimum $33 billion. and plus they have tacked on all kinds of foreign aid, domestic stuff on it. so there are definitely lawmakers who are saying this money should be spent elsewhere. but that is not the majority at this point. host: david drucker has an article "new hope for passage of nuclear arms treaty" biden and republican senators negotiating a deal on start. tell us about that. guest: this is a treaty negotiated earlier this year. some republicans don't like it. they thought it left the u.s. a little vulnerable. not everybody is in favor of it. what will happen though is a treaty needs to pass, needs to be ratified in the senate. that is not currently on the

agenda for the coming next few weeks, but that could change and it could be added on. right now no one is sure whether they will be able to get that done. president obama wanted it to happen but with so much on the agenda he may not get it done until after the election. host: next up riverdale, georgia on the line for independents welcome to the "washington journal." caller: thank you for c-span and thank you for the opportunity to speak to you. i would like to make a couple of observations. changes on business is necessary to keep them from being shipped overseas. reagan broke the back of the air traffic controllers and we ended up with severe problems with aviation. unemployment insurance would put it back into the economy and i would like to see the engine stop work three days and you would see the economy tank. what are your thoughts about the

use of executive powers, which is what bush used to push through everything that he wanted regardless of what the democrats or independents wanted? guest: executive power can work in some situations. i can't imagine the president would use it for something as expensive as unemployment benefits. i think as i was saying earlier it will pass. it is just going to take a little more time to do it. host: next up, anna on the line for democrats out of chicago. caller: hi. i just want to say acorn has opinion disbanded over a year. there was a man came on who was mentioned that wanted it -- it was helping obama with acorn. one of the problem is they don't come out and let people know that a lot of things these

people are saying are flat out lies. i think that c-span needs to catch up and stop these people from just talking about anything and getting out false information. because we think of c-span at our guide and whatever comes on c-span we think is the truth and a hear a lot of people coming on making accusations and they are flat out lies and nobody catches it on them. not like you that you have a view and you are very intelligent yet you didn't catch it when he said acorn was doing this and acorn was doing that. host: we will move on to james on the line for independents out of collins, mississippi. caller: good morning, sir. i wanted to ask the guest, we keep hearing about the corruption in washington and

washington is broken and this administration is so bad and we need to put another party back in. but my problem is with this is that corruption didn't start necessarily in washington. corruption starts in mall towns -- small towns, small organizations in small cities and towns. the tea party is looking at washington but what about in your union community and neighborhoods? what about the small government? corruption is not so much as washington. the people voted for these people to be fair and balanced. you can't look for washington for all the corruption in small towns, especially with judges and lawyers. host: ferrechio, you have the last word. guest: it is interesting a lot of things i'm hearing from callers. this is a sense of discontent i

hear. and it seals to be kind of bipartisan. that is backed up by some of the polling done this year. talking it to voters about who they think they are going to vote for in the next election. one unified theme is a feeling of not necessarily not liking their democrat or republican member but not liking the incumbent. people are angry with who is in power no matter what the power is. that is the strongest feeling that people are finding in polls, there is a sense people want to start over. and that is pretty scary for the people in office right now. they know that is the feeling. they sense the frustration. host: thank you for being on. in a few minutes whole talk with a person who wrote an article in "new york times" talking about young job seekers getting off to a tougher start than their

parents or grandparents much the headline was "a new generation, an elusive american dream." we will have that in a few minutes but now a news update. >> it is 8:29 in washington, d.c. and in the headlines officials in uganda think an identify linked group is behind the double blast in that nation that killed at least 64 people including an american from a california based aid group. the blast ripped through a rugby club and restaurant as crowds watched the world cup soccer final in kampala. hillary clinton is condemning it saying the u.s. will work with the ugandan government to bring the perpetrators of the crime to justice. b.p. underwater roebt robots assembled pieces in the effort to contain the oil well. it went into today the 83rd day

of the environmental and economic disaster. meanwhile, the first public meeting of the national commission on the b.p. deep water horizon spill will take place today in new orleans. live coverage starts at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span radio and c-span 3 tv. the move to drop references to islamic radicalism is drawing fire warning it ignores the role religion with play in motivating terrori terrorists. experts are challenging the administration's shift in its recently unveiled national security strategy. an ordinance that chicago officials say is the convictest handgun -- strictest handgun regulation takes place today. they were approved july 2. in response to the supreme court rule ting that say would put mo

guns in people's hands. they have had gun owners prevented from stepping out on porches and garages with the handgun. the communist party letter in cuba says fidel castro will appear on a key program for the first time in four years. they said he is said to discuss his concerns about the middle east. fidel castro hasn't appeared on the program since a serious illness in 2006 forced him to step town and hand power over to his brother raul. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> watch world leaders from the whitehouse to parliaments around the globe from this week and the past 25 years with the c-span video library online all free t. is washington and the world your way. this week on the communicators

online safety and the cable industry in europe. discussions from the national cable show with maryland's attorney general and the cable europe president tonight on c-span 2. c-span is available in over 100 million homes bringing you a direct link to public affairs, politics, history and nonfiction books as a public service created by america's cable companies. "washington journal" continues. host: we have "new york times" economic writer who joins us from new york city this morning to talk about his article from last wednesday's paper "a new generation, an elusive dream." sir, you talk about a young man named scott nicholson a graduate of colgate university winner of the award for academic excellence spends his mornings searching for suitable job open

beings but hasn't found anything. is nicholson typical of young folks looking for work these days? guest: i think he is. there a there are two ways to go at it. let me start by saying the jobs simply are not this. there a huge number of college educated people who expected, as well as high school educated, but just focusing in this article on the college educated, they expected to come out of school as their parents, grandparents and even older brothers had before the recession and segue with a fair amount of ease into jobs that were career oriented. the lower rungs of a career ladder. might may little at the beginning but they were on the way. scott nicholson found in his efforts that he couldn't segue into a career oriented job.

he could get a job that was a dead-end job, but he chose, as many others have, to keep trying to get into a career oriented job and stay out of the workforce until he did. concentrating all of his efforts on that. i why him somewhat of a heroic person for doing this. most people can't because they have to make a living. >> you write that he was offered a job as an associate claims adjustor at $40,000 a year but decided not to take it. you write that he would hold out for a corporate position that would draw on his college training and put him as scott sees it on the bottom rungs of a career later. but later in the story you talk about his major. he majored in history and minored in political science or the other way around. so, it doesn't seem like he's got specific skills and why not

take that $40,000 a year job as a claims adjustor and use it as a stepping stone to look for something he really wants to get into? . that is an interesting question and scott hills considered it. but -- scott himself considered it. but political science and history is a good education. he shouldn't be considered disqualified from the workforce because he didn't take a business course. most people in 4ehis father's a grandfather's generation did go to college just to learn and went into career, what amounted to career oriented work. now, he is fortunate because of his family to be able to keep struggling for a career oriented job. he is quite concerned and he has reason to be concerned that if he takes this claims adjust or job, associated claims adjustor

job which would be auto claims. he would have been on the phone all day answering -- processing paper and answering questions from people who were in auto accidents. that doesn't have -- and he is a very intense and hard working person. he would have given that all of his energy. that is a dead-end job. you can go up to department head in claims but you probably won't go much higher than that. and his fear -- and it was a fear during the depression and is one whenever there is this type of high unemployment and lack of job opportunity -- that you can end up in a job that doesn't get you anywhere and 10 years later you have put all of your energy into doing this job and you are way behind in your career. host: for the record what kind of job does scott nicholson look for in guest: he is looking for -- he would take a management training

job. those are usually quite a bit. he would take an insurance industry job. some sort of job in almost any field service sector that would lead to eventually the management ladder. host: we are talking about the new generation of job seekers with louis yucatuchitel. if you want to get in the conversation the numbers are on the screen. if you are out there looking for a job, we don't have one for you here today but we would like to hear about your situation. we have a special line for job seekers. 202-628-0184. our special line for job seekers for this segment. the first call is from

clarkston, michigan, on the line for democrats. go ahead. caller: i was calling about the jobs program that michigan has. my son is in it but he can't find even a part-time job. he has been out of work since 2006 when g. phfpm. bought a lo them out and he took it because he didn't have enough seniority for anywhere else. my grandson is in college full-time and he is having to work two part-time jobs and he is just staying in college until things turn around and get better. he is not married. my grandkids are having -- my other grandkids are having hard times getting jobs, too. so there are more than five people to one job. there are like 20 people to one

job in real life. guest: i sort of agree with that. scott nick some son illustrated statistics that were in the story. 37% -- and i was dealing with the millennials, young people 18 to 29. 37% are either unemployed or out of the workforce, no longer even looking for a job. 14% are unemployment of that group. among the college educated, four years, 17% are unemployed or no longer seeking work and 5.5% are seeking work. those are all very high numbers. we haven't had those sort numbers, rarely had them since the great depression. the point then is that there

just aren't the jobs out there to fulfill one's ambition particularly for college educated people. so, they have two choices. to stay out and keep looking and hope something will turn up, and it does. or to take a job -- and scott nicholson will be forced to do this em-- to earn a living and run the risk they will never get out of that rut. there are several studies -- and i cite one in my article -- which point out that when people start at either an abnormally low salary or late they never quite catch up. over 15 years they never catch up to where people who have a more normal job history, the pay levels and status levels of people with a more normal job history achieve. host: next up is henderson,

kentucky, anna on the line for republicans. welcome to the "washington journal." caller: thank you very much. i have a suggestion for this young man named scott. if he can survive with the help of his parents while he is looking, he should also volunteer in his field. when i got out of college in 1972, i volunteered as a teacher and that was the reason i was hired as a teacher. my supervisor said we hired you because you cared enough about your field to volunteer and that was the reason i got that job. so, pleasen courage him to volunteer in his field if he can survi survive. otherwise he will have to take what comes.

host: thanks for the call, hanna. your thoughts. guest: one thing that concerns me about this, we are a nation who, as i pointed out with his father and grandfather, generated enough good jobs for people to get into the workforce at the level they wanted to or to start out in jobs that would lead to the level they wanted to get to. we don't have that now. and after this story came out there were a number of people who said he's spoiled, he should go to work, earn whatever living he can, settle for what the world provides. look, that is one point of view. but if he and millions of other young people have to do that, that is an implicit admission that the career opportunities, the opportunities to join the middle class at this point have

deteriorated terribly. and even the most trained people have to compromise and end up in work that was below or less thathan -- below is never a good word -- less than what their parent, grandparents and even older brothers had to settle for before the recession. so hopefully the recession will lift. as someone said in the beginning there is officially five people for every opening. it is probably more. host: in the article you talked about david nicholson, scott's father and william nicholson's scott's grandfather. scott's father david offered the advice of hitting up your friends or guys you went to college with as a way of trying to find work. scott's grandfather said go abroad.

if you can't find a job here go overseas. somehow that working out? guest: well, scott's father actually said to him -- he was offered the job as a claims adjustor ace report d. and scott's father said take the job, keen your fingers cross, hope that once inside the door you can network and work your way up. that is assuming there is a -- there is something to work your way up. so he represents the view of take what can you get. the grandfather came out of world war ii, he was a wounded war veteran and he ended up as a prosperous stockbroker, bought land in graphton when it was still semirural and he looks around and he is very intelligent, 91 years old and he says this country might be past its peak or he says we have a

global economy and go where the work might be better elsewhere in the world. so says go west young man if you will which this day means go to europe, asia or somewhere where there might be more high-end jobs. that is a sad comment, i think. host: scott nicholson lives in in grafton, massachusetts. might he have more luck if he went to another part of the country? guest: well, i perhaps didn't make it chore enough in the story but he is willing to go wherever he can find a job. he is in fact casting his net all over the country, as are many other young people. as the statistics show, their success is relative. i was trying to illustrate -- i could have written the story if he had finally gotten a job.

he will take a job anywhere that meets his criteria. host: next is homewood, illinois. donald on the line for independents. caller: i used to be a republican but i'm now an independent. the reason i stopped being a republican is their passage of the nafta law. our manufacturing base used to be 20% of our economy. it is now down to about 10%. the effect of that has meant that there are fewer good paying manufacturing jobs in this country. in fact, the better jobs in manufacturing are going overseas as well. i have a friend in a company in the detroit area, his new assignment is to go to china,

india and the philippines and look for engineering firms to replace 600 engineers that they currently employ. so, are we just going to send all of our work overseas? the other thought that i have had is i wish somebody would do an analysis of the tax impact of the loss of all of these better paying jobs. i'm sure it is a significant loss of income tax to the treasury. guest: well, i basically agree with what you say. in fact, manufacturing as a percentage of g.d.p. in the 1950's was nearly 30% of total output. the last number i know is 11%. so you are right about the decline. meanwhile, financial services including wall street, real estate and other services, rose are 10% up to 20%.

now of course it is dropping. the bottom line in this decline in manufacturing is a lot of young people no longer want to go into it including scott nicholson even though his father was quite successful in it. i wish manufacturing would come back and i wish young people, and middle aged people, would consider jobs in manufacturing to be a fine way to go. we have not only reduced, shrunk the percentage of american output attributable to manufacturing but we have made it an area where people going to college don't consider it to be a place to go to work. host: you can find the story in hard copy and go online and find it at "new york times".com. in the article you write the unemployment rate for college educated young adults 5.5% is

nearly double what it was on the eve of the great recession in 2007 and the highest level by almost two percentage points since the bureau started to keep records in 1994 for those with at least four years of college. back to the phones, arlington, tex texas, marie on our line for folks looking for work. caller: good morning. host: how are you doing? how long have you been looking fond what have you been looking for in caller: i have been unemployed about 17 months and i have a communications degree from the university of texas in arlington. i have worked in newspapers for more than 10 years. and with all of the trouble with print journalism, i decided to look for a new career. i have been out of work 17

months. host: does that mean you will if back to school or try to parlay something out of your communications degree? caller: that is probably something i should have done a long too many ago is going back to school. host: how old are you if you don't mind my asking? caller: i'm approaching the 40-year mark but i'm a young 40. host: louis, tell us the difference between somebody like marie who is at 40, traditionally we think of somebody midway through their career and a guy like scott nicholson who is just getting started and differences they have in looking for work? . guest: sounds to me like they don't have a lot of differences. marie is in the same sort of position that scott is in. they are both looking hard. if begins to raise the question

of exactly what is the value of a college education. in good times if you were college educated you were more likely to get a job than someone who is only high school educated and there was not a lot of attention paid to whether you really needed all the college training to do the job. in hard times there are not the so-called college educated types of job, it has disappeared and you begin to wonder what the value of that college education is. in scott's case, he had applied two the insurance company, the hanover insurance company it worcest worcester. first he applied for a management training course, probably not making very much money, probably $20,000, $35,000, something like that a year. these are executive training

courses that have existed all over the country with the promise of rising in management. he didn't get that. but somebody at the insurance company said we have this pool of college educated people who have applied to us. we don't usually hire a check educated person for the claims departme department. but since the pool is there, we will call in scott nicholson to see if he wants the job. i'm interpreting. but that is the dynamic when you have such a flood of skilled peop people. you hire them for work that is less than skilled. i imagine marie will go through the same problem. if she goes back to college now and gets a degree and comes out and the recession is still in full force, she might still be having an awful hard time getting a job as scott is. so, we have a situation where

the recession has simply deprived the nation of job creation. the jobs are just not there. host: we have a tweet from garry duncan. guest: that is probably true. but, as i said, scott nicholson -- i think he is taking a rather heroic approach. i find, and i think this was very true of the depression, people took jobs -- and it is true in good times you can take almost any job and segue fairly easily into the work you want to do. in hard times you find yourself month after month unable to make that shift from the job you have to the job you want. and you run the risk of spending

months if not years in work that you don't want to tdo and you never get out of it. and scott is, i think, heroically struggling against that. he works very hard. he does a lot of odd jobs and things to help support himself n now. but he is the type of person who, whatever work he does, he throws himself into it entirely and he is fearful, correctly, that in this economy, this job situation, he is likely to be -- to find himself several years from now stuck in a position like this that he doesn't really like. and his friends and others are finding themselves more and more in work they don't really like. host: next up is maria on the line for republics calling out f

of chicago -- calling for the line on the republicans. caller: i have been unemployed about 14 months now and i have been a manager for, number one, restaurants in the united states pretty much. and i worked for 32 years doing either manager, waitress, cook. i have done it all. and i have been unemployed about 12 months. what kind of jobs -- i have a little bit of background in college, but it doesn't do you any good. i applied everything for all kinds of different jobs and nothing is hiring at all. so, what are people like us supposed to do? guest: i have a lot of sympathy for your situation.

i don't know what you are supposed to do. it is really quite a troubling moment. college at this point is becoming -- people are going to check probably be because they can't get work and if they can afford it or raise the money through loans it is a refuse final from a bad job market. the military also is a refuse final. scott nicholson was scheduled to go into officer, marine officer training but a childhood case asthma somebody discovered in the marine corps and he was washed out. there are refuse finals, places where people are fleeing for the time being. one is military, one is college. i don't really know what to do. we are in a moment when it is becoming obvious that a college education isn't the great solution to entering the workforce that we assumed that it was. host: louis uchitel has been writing on economics issues at the "new york times" since 1983.

before going there he was a reporter, editor and foreign correspondent mostly in latin america with the associated press. he is also authored a book "the disposable american, layoffs and their consequences." tulsa, oklahoma, on the line for democrats, rick. caller: good morning. i have been cut before because pap doesn't want me to make comments i imagine chinas could discuss closed topics but never open topics. and there are people whose -- host: rick are you calling from modesto, california. let's move on to greenville, north carolina. tony on the line for independents. caller: i have concerns about people in college who are still studying liberal arts. you said this young man studied history or political science. i myself graduated in 1992 in the recession with an english

degree and realized i didn't have job skills and i wound up working the first job was at a convenience store and it wasn't my dream job. i'm now a college professor. i have concerns about people who are graduate and not getting a job. if he wants to go into business management why didn't he study that while he was in college? host: before you go, how long did you work in the -- you said a 7-11? caller: convenience store. host: how long did you work there before you actually got some traction on your pursuit of what it is you wanted to do? caller: what i did i had an english degree. i worked there two years and went to school part time and went into education and now i'm a professor of education. host: was it always your job to go into education? caller: no. host: what did you really want

to be? caller: a journalist. host: and you are now are professor in greenville? caller: yes, i am. guest: there is something i scored when i did the story about layoff and now the reaction to this. there is a tendency to blame the vict victim. the real issue is the social conditions, the system, the situation that we live in. scott nicholson is a victim of a very severe recession. the focus should be on the recession and creating good jobs in the midst of the recession. instead, there is a lot of focus on the individual who i have illustrated and he gets blamed. do this, do that. you are lazy. the kid is lucky to have your

parents. and that is not the issue. scott nicholson is a hard working, well educated disciplined young man and he can't get what he would like to have. .

i raise this because there was a lot of e-mail in which the victim was blamed. the writer of the email wood said this is a social this year and discuss how to solve the social issue. host: detroit,, -- detroit, michigan, on our line for republicans. caller: i have a comment. the era we just left had been one of mainly production, invention. electricity, cars, televisions, basics. do you sense now that our entire economy outlook is going to flip to more or less consumption and we will work our five or six their workers and we will kick back to three or four day work weeks? -- fabrice 6 day work weeks and we will kick back to three or

four days? this will probably go across the entire world. host: mr. uchitelle? guest: there has been a decline in american output. american manufacturing output is greater than any other country so far although china is about to pass us. the issue is that manufacturing output has declined so much as a percentage of our total output and the shift has been to services and other forms of output, if you will. the hope is that we will stay ahead of everyone else because we are more innovative than anyone else. therefore we will come up with some new invention, make that

here, and when it is a commodity we will ship it overseas. that is not happening anymore. that is happening less and less because the europeans, chinese, japanese, and many other parts of the world, innovation is as vigorous as it is here. the output for the new products is a just as vigorous. we have a big problem on our hands. we are, i suppose, in danger of taking our place as an equal with other nations instead of a nation that is heads and shoulders above everyone else. host: jenny from louisville, ky. good morning. caller: the morning c-span. i love you. first of all, my son graduated from college.

of course he had student loans -- a lot of them, okay? his major was information technology technician and his minor was in accounting. unfortunately he had to take a job making a lot less than he would have normally gotten paid. his surviving but he is trying to pay double on his loans. i got a loan also to help him get through college. host: he majored in information technology? caller: yes. host: now he has a job in information technology? caller: yes, but it pays a lot less than if the economy was better. some of the make quite a bit of money. when he was in college he worked

for a bank just to get experience for college to show all the things that he had previously done before he had gotten that job. host: think you for your call. loess -- louis uchitelle from "the new york times." guest: your point is an interesting one. the majority of people are getting work that they want, these young people. it is the percentage of those who are not is up quite a bit. i could have written the story about scott nicholson even if he had gotten career oriented jobs. the outcome would have been slightly different than what it was. i still would have been illustrating how difficult it is now to get the right job. people like this woman's son are

in even more difficult positions of having college debt said they have to take whatever job they can get to pay their bills. there is a third aspect which is the downward pressure on wages. when you have so many people qualified, highly skilled people without work, the employer can pick and choose as he and she will. they can say this is what we will pay and take it or leave it. if you leave it, we will hire someone who will take it. host: how often do you stay in touch with scott nicholson? do you know if he had any luck getting a job or an interview? guest: he is listening to this program right now. as a matter of fa, the article resulted in several invitations for interviews. he is pursuing those and he is keeping his fingers crossed.

i stay in touch. when i write about someone, i try to form a permanent relationship with them. i have a relationship with scott now and i spoke to him yesterday. host: scott nicholson, if you can get through we would love to talk to you and find out how things are going. next up from michigan on our live -- on our line for those looking for work. how is the search going? caller: it is terrible in michigan. i was working since i had been 15 years old. i started out in the fast-food management. i took a better job making more money in the retail management. then i had my children and worked part-time as a teacher's assistant. luckily my husband has had a steady job for i think 23 years this august.

my last job was in manufacturing. i got laid off july 2008 and i am currently still laid off. they dropped much unemployment june 2 -- they dropped my unemployment june 2. we are required to do six applications for unemployment. i did everything they told me to. now the only job openings that i can find our volunteer. that is what i do now. host: do you find yourself in competition with millenials? guest: -- caller: i do not have a college degree. i got on the job training. they each had their own training. now i am looking at -- do i want to go back to school and do i

want to pay student loans when i am 50 or 60 years old? host: we will leave it there. what kind of prospects are there? it is a guy like scott nicholson who has a college degree cannot find a job, what prospects are there for someone like kathy who does not have a college degree? guest: i think the prospects are not so good. this is a question of supply and demand. there is a huge supply. the people have enough training, not that they need the training to take the job, but those who have the most training are offered the job is first. the training is a way of sorting people and they are higher for wages that are less than or the same if they had no training at all.

i would like to make the point that many, many, many jobs, and this has been the case for many years after world war ii, you learned on the job. you did not need a college education. you went to night school and that sort of thing to improve your skills. i think we have overdone this whole concept of college education. i think this recession is beginning to show that. in any event, we are, again, a country with a huge pool of people seeking work, college- educated and those with less than a college education, and inevitably employers, quite correctly i suppose, archers and would they consider to be the best of the lot for jobs that in another time they would only hire a college-educated person for. host: why did you choose scott

nicholson as an example of millenials who cannot find work? guest: i was trying to find a family, a story about generations. scott nicholson was the current generation. i wanted to do the story about milanee else milaneemillenials -- millenials. there were not that many families where you could find a grandfather at the age of 91 as sharp and with it as this gentleman was. it said what was going on. scott, himself, could still go into the marines. he was well educated, as well trained as a person could be. i was trying to do a story about college educated millenials. we do many stories quite

correctly about blue-collar workers who are not educated and they, of course, suffered much much -- much, much more than those college-educated. we should not ignore that everyone is suffering. look. i spent three weeks looking for families that might fit the situation. i finally ran across the nicholsons. i got scott nicholson from someone who does focus group research. scott nicolas in's family had not been in a focus group, but he was a friend who was a friend of someone. that is how you do it. i could have used another family, any number of families. this one happened to fall into place. as i did the reporting it fell even further into place. sometimes you go out to illustrate a story and it does not work and you have to start over again. host: next up binghamton, new

york. you are on our line for independence. caller: i would like to ask about a group of people. my son has as burgers said -- -- has a degree in mass. host: for those who may not be familiar tell us what that syndrome is. caller: a very high end autistic disorder. the people are very often highly intelligent or had above normal intelligence. they can be very highly educated, but they are socially awkward and they have trouble in the social situations. they may not read people correctly. they do not interview well at all because they get anxiety and things like that.

host: go ahead, sir. guest: again, it is the oversupply of people and the under supply of jobs. someone with a loss murderers syndrome -- someone with ausberger's syndrome, when the people seeking jobs were more equal, that person would be very much a candid it. the focus would be on the person's skills. those with that syndrome are often very highly skilled people. the employers are in the driver's seat. they can choose from tens of millions of people who cannot get work. it is quite a bad situation that this country is in right now. host: our last call from

bakersfield, california. steve on our line for republicans. caller: you mentioned earlier about people getting into jobs when they were young. first, from the time i was 13 i worked in ice cream trucks, construction, bartending, a dishwasher -- dishwashing, convenience stores. that is how i pick my way through college. all of those jobs, at least in california, are taken by mexicans, first of all. there are tons and tons of job skills, dealing with people, dealing with money, and there are no ways for the kids to get that type of experience prior to leaving for college now. the overall jobs to ration in this country will not get better until you get the democrats, the socialists, and the anti-private sector people out of government and relieve the tax burden and

the regulatory burden on businesses who would hire the people who need jobs. host: what kind of work do you do now, steve? caller: i have multiple sclerosis and i am almost 60 years older. i was a starter at a golf course. host: what was your main job or your field of endeavor in your younger days? caller: i was in sales for about 35 years. i was in advertising and i ended up in management. i managed a large bottle of water company that services southern and central california. host: we will leave it there. louis uchitelle, you get the last word.

guest: it sounds that this gentleman, in time, ended up doing the work he wanted to do. i hope in time the young people who are millenials now will end up doing work that satisfies them, the work that they want to do. i hope this recession lifts soon. if it does not, we are in danger of a breeding a generation of people who either do not find work or who are forced into areas of work they do not want to be in. halfway through their lines they are not satisfied and they have been in work they had to take to make a living. they are not satisfied with the work and have unsatisfactory lives. we have had that in our experience in the 1930's. we have not had it really since world war ii. i hope it is not coming back in

any large scale. host: louis uchitelle from "the new york times." the article is talking about young job-seekers off to a far tougher start than their parents or grandparents. thank you very much for being on the program, sir. guest: think you for having me. host: in the few minutes we will be talking to steven brill who wrote the cover story for last week's "time"magazine. why this is the biggest bargain in town. steven brill will be our guest. first, in other check in and an update from c-span radio. >> at 9:20 a.m. in washington, your headlines. congress gets back to work today after the july 4 break. the white house hopes the senate will move quickly on the financial overhaul bill. democrats left town last week without the 60 votes needed to push for the wall street reform

package. although it is expected that democrats will ultimately move the bill forward. lawmakers will also be working on extending benefits for the long-term unemployed. legislation to pay for the war in iraq and the nomination of the atlantic taken to the supreme court. the senate is back today at 2:00 p.m. eastern live on c-span2 and is keyspan radio hd -- and the c-span radio hd 3. the price for the oil spill has risen to at $3.5 billion. that includes $165 million paid so far to settle individual claims. the u.s. command says they will meet with north korea tomorrow to discuss the deadly sinking of the south korean war ship that has been widely blamed. the announcement comes three days after the u.n. security council approved a statement condemning the sinking that stopped short of directly implicating north korea.

defense officials say israel's first internal report on the deadly raid against the gaza bound ship will compromise the intel. the report is not going to fault the commandos that opened fire. finally, this week the fda will begin radio of the first of the three new weight-loss drugs -- the fda will begin a review. dimon deliver significant weight loss without risking side effects. with of the city -- almost 35% of the adult population, expectations are high for some of the new weight loss their fees to emerge in more than a decade. those are some of the headlines on c-span radio. >> what world leaders from the white house to parliaments around the globe. the c-span video library is online and free in washington

and the world. your way. this week on "the communicators," on line safety and the cable industry in europe. we had the maryland attorney general and the cable europe president. that is to 9 on c-span2. c-span is now available in 100 million homes bringing new politics, history, and a nonfiction book secreted by american cable companies. >> the civic judiciary committee returns this week to vote on the nomination of the land taken as the newest supreme court justice. -- the nomination of elena kagan as the newest supreme court. learn more in c-span's newest book, "the supreme court," providing unique insight on the court available in hardcover and

as an e-book. host: joining us from new york is steven brill, author of the cover story on last week's edition of "time" magazine. why this is the biggest bargain in town. welcome to the program, sir. guest: good morning. host: who is a lobbyist and why are they so necessary for government operations these days? guest: lobbyists are people who, originally according to the founding fathers they said in the first amendment the have a right to petition their government. now they are a professional class, often well trained or former congressman or congressional staff members, who advocate for various, so called, special interests in washington.

sometimes those special interests are consumer groups, teachers unions, and oftentimes they are big banks or corporations. host: your article deals with lobbyists who were dealing with the financial regulatory reform bill. at one point you call this could the super bowl of a pro lobbyists." guest: there was so much money at stake in that building, billions upon billions of dollars on each page of that 2300 page bill. each paragraph was pregnant with meaning and pregnant with a loss of a value, or lack thereof depending on what kind of corp., bank, or wall street brokerage house you were. everyone hired lots of lobbyists to make their pitch. host: to illustrate the growing complexity in this article,

creating a new agency is simpler than fixing a broken the banking system. a big fix means more room for lobbyists to tinker. to illustrate that you said in 1914 the law creating the federal trade commission was only eight pages long. the 1935 social security act was 20 pages long. the financial reform bill, the conference version, is 2319 pages. guest: right. that is a lot of complexity. to be fair, the federal trade commission and the eight pages, those were single spaced pages. so i guess you could say it was 16 pages. what that tells you is that we live in times that are much more complex. no one was talking about regulating derivatives in 1914 because no one had ever heard of them. that is just one example. the more complex things get, i

guess the argument would be unique to higher-- hire your own advocates to spot the issues and be there when they are redrafting a paragraph or a page. that is what happened. host: what do you say to people who say if it was not for lobbyists that maybe these bills would not be almost 2400 pages long and they may be simpler if it was just written a strictly by the lawmakers without any interference from the lobbying? guest: there is a lot to the argument. if you make it simpler, in other words, instead of being released pacific in the bill and you simply say that the federal reserve or the treasury department, take your pick, shall have the power to regulate derivatives trading in a way that ensures the safety of the financial system. that sounds like a good piece of legislation.

the lobbying and the attention would shift to the regulators. for example, behind the federal trade commission wall, which is only eight pages, by now there are probably hundreds of thousands of regulations that have been written to enforce and enhance the law. as things get more complex, each side will hire lawyers to contest the meaning of a sentence or a paragraph, so if you make the meeting explicit in the bill coming to avoid the issue of how explicit the meeting is want to have to enforce the bill. host: we are talking about lobbying with regards to the financial reform bill with steven brill, controlling writer for "time" magazine. the numbers are on your screen.

we do not have a special wine for lobbyists this morning, but if you are one and you want to get involved, by all means, give us a call or send us an e-mail or message via twitter. guest: you would probably have to call on all three lines because all lobbying firms have all democrats, republicans come and independents. host: on our line for independence, from new york. you are on "the washington journal." caller: this should limit the amount of money that can be spent by lobbying firms. the congress members can work for any of the industries have lobbying because look what happens in the gulf. i understand that people who have actually gone -- the goal of the oil industry is so huge that it has encompassed

everywhere. i do not remember whoever it was, people retired -- congress uses it's a job to get a job later. that is so disgusting. limit the amount of money and that any firm can use to create campaigns for this way, to lobby. host: if you had an issue you wanted to bring up in front of congress and you needed a lobbyist, who better to do that than a former congressman? caller: that is not what i said. if the oil is lobbying congressmen, those congressmen who are lobbied by the lobbyists work for big oil or by big oil, if you get lobbied by a big oil corporations you cannot, as you work for congress to work for the big oil corporations. you cannot go to work for bp. if bp shows up at your door and

the congress and says, "hey, i want to regulate myself. i want to write my own environmental review for alaska. you cannot go to work for bp when you leave congress. that is what i mean. guest: what if you get logged by the consumer federation of america and you are a congressman? can you work for them after you leave congress? host: assume that the answer is yes. how would that go? guest: there are proposals that have been made which makes some sense that say you cannot move through the so-called "revolving door" very quickly. you would have to wait one or two years, maybe even more. the amount of money that corporations can spend on lobbying, limiting that runs on

the recent supreme court decision that basically said that corporations have the same right to spend money that you and i have come to spend money independently to advocate their views. that not only means that they can finance all kinds of political commercials, but it also indefinitely means they can spend as much money as they want on lobbying. you'd have to have a constitutional amendment to stop that. you could, however i think, limit the campaign contributions that members of congress can take from lobbyists or take from corporations who finance lobbyists by enacting rules in the house and senate for the members of the house and senate. it may be a constitutional right for me to spend money, but there

is not one for a member of congress to take my money. host: you write in your article that 2000 lobbyists working on financial reform, more than 1400 had been congressional staffers or work in the executive branch and 73 have been members of congress, according to a report issued jointly by dean crp and the congress watch unit of public citizen, a public- interest group. guest: right. those groups do really good work as far as bringing that kind of data out there in really good, accessible forms. host: what is crp? guest: the center for responsive politics. host: caller, go ahead. caller: my question is, what would be the word when the corporations and government

merged into one entity? would you call that an oligarchy? is that what we're going to? but is the word? guest: some people would say that word is "washington." host: let's take a look at some of the lobbyists you talk about in the article. the first is lindsey hooper. their clients include goldman sachs, ford, and apple. the lobbying fees were $40.2 million last year. tell us a little bit more about that. guest: i used him as an illustration because, i think, he is much more typical and

writing about him makes it much more complicated than simply saying that all lobbyists are crooks and everything they lobby for is against the public interest. mr. hooper is a highly regarded lawyer and lobbyist in washington. he was a highly regarded member of the senate staff. hear, the interests he is lobbying for, the so-called "clean energy interests," there is a tax incentive now out there that allows corporations to take a tax deduction before investing in clean energy. the issue is that banks are the most reliable source of profit and if you do not have profit, you do not need a tax incentive. you need to be able to offset the tax break against the taxes you pay on a profit.

long story short, and said in a primary source of those investments in clean energy. what mr. hoover would argue that an unintended consequence, a favored term of a consequence, of not allowing banks to invest the bank's money in private equity deals, new ventures, etc., would be that a lot of the clean energy projects that the obama administration wants to encourage would-be sapped of a big source of investment. he and the others did achieve a car about, sort of, that allows investments to continue. -- did achieve a carve out. host: on our line for republicans. go ahead. caller: i want to make a comment and a question to you. we have a government of the

people by the people and for the people. "for the people." how can we ensure in the decisions made by these lobbyists that are influenced by the obvious -- influenced by the lobbyists, how can we ensure these decisions are for the people and not for the special interests? thank you. guest: that is a difficult issue. you can argue that it becomes more transparent if there is more sunlight, that everyone can see what is going on. that will show that the public interest is served. there are two problems with that. you can shine all but the light you want on a 2300 page bill that is full of legalese that is almost impossible to read in any comprehensible way and it may not do much good in informing the public. the second issue is what is definition of the public

interest? it is -- is it in the public interest that green energy products continue to get a tax break or is it not? these things become very complicated. the issue i tried to pinpoint in this article, and it is a difficult one, that the more complicated and intrusive government is the higher the stakes and the more incentive people have to hire lobbyists. the balance of the scales is such that the people with the most resources can hire the best lobbyists who can car -- who can articulate their positions most effectively. that is reality. host: when the other people you highlight in your article, his firm is public citizen toxic congress watch. he is an in-house lobbyist for the consumer advocacy group founded in 1971 by ralph nader.

guest: correct. host: did you want to say something about him? guest: i was just wondering what the question was. host: i was just trying to illustrate some of the different people. you have one person who is lobbying in the energy sector. another person is lobbying on consumer protection. guest: right. the headline would be thate won in the senseill be passed. the big news about the bill is that it does have a lot of, so- called, reforms that he and otheant. the issue i tried to pinpoint the though is at the margins and carve outsf those p and push backs that make it, his

-- from his standpoint, less than perfect. host: frank out of the vessel, new york. you are on "washington journal" with steven brill. caller: good morning. and what to say from listening to the history of, i get the impression that the lobbying element in our government is a den of thieves. i think that the most disappointing in the thing that would give it america the most hope would be if president obama would stick to his pledge to clean up the lobbying interests. he has gone everywhere from medicare, financial reform, to this and that, but not in the basic sense address corruption in the system. these lobbyists have been destroying us for the past 50 or 60 years. it is disgusting,

disheartening, and it makes you want to cry. that is all i have to say. thank you. host: steven brill, your response, sir? guest: that is one way to look at it. there are all kinds of lobbyists. i do not think it is particularly helpful to brand everyone the same way. for example, if you were a cancer patient and wanted a certain kind of drug to be approved on an emergency basis because you thought it gave him a shot at life, you might want to hire a lobbyist. i'm not sure if that makes it a bad person or in mixed a lobbyist to take the assignment a bad person. host: frank on our line for democrats out of long beach, california. thank you for waiting. caller: good morning. i wanted to ask your guest if he

would agree with me that this legislation that people keep talking about with term limits would be a job stimulus package for lobbyists. it seems then you get to the nuts and bolts of legislation that no one would be in there to have the history of know things -- of how things work and would have to turn to lobbyists from basic information about how bills should be written and be interpreted. i do not think you would get anything but lobbyists' opinions with term limits and no one would be able to establish any kind of history. i would like the guest to reply to that. guest: i think you hit on a very important point. for example, there is already a big problem without term limits because the staffs term limit

themselves by leaving after two or three years and go to work as lobbyists. the typical congressman might know one or two issues will but not a lot of issues well and relies on their staff to do that. their staffs are increasingly less experienced and less able. as a point out in the article, they find themselves calling on lobbyists to give them the information they need. sometimes that can work. in a situation where you have a piece of legislation where one big interest is on one side and one big interest is on the other, if you are a staff person you can call in the lobbyists and each side will have some really smart lobbyists who will prepare white papers and all of this stuff. you can be like a judge in a courtroom. the way the evidence on both sides, you are much more informed and you can make a decision. more typically, the interests are more lopsided where there is a big money interests on one

side and there really is not on the other side. then you are just kind of stuck. if you had term limits, you would be arguably more stock and in -- would be arguably more stock. in local areas, that is the problem they experience. host: on the cover of the magazine, the subhead says $3.5 billion were spent on lobbyists last year. why that is the biggest bargain in town. is the "biggest bargain" also the best bargain? guest: if you are writing the check, it is the best bargain. to the rest of it -- to the rest of us is a big question. host: warsaw, indiana, on our line for republicans. caller: i appreciate your very much highlighting of a very difficult problem that the american voters are penalized

with when bills are prepared and our elected officials, if you want to call them that, in congress and the senate really and truly probably do not have any idea what is contained in things like the health-care bill, the 2000 plus pages for the financial bill. our congressmen and senators are expected to know when they are voting on. in my opinion, most probably do not know except for one or two paragraphs of the bill how it affects them personally. i guess my question would be more of a statement. how can our elected representatives in congress actually feel that they have voted correctly, either by their conscience or what is contained in the bill, when they really and truly have no bloody idea what is in the bill that will affect generations and

generations of the voters in this country? guest: i think that is a bit of an overstatement. typically, and what happened here is there will be a memo circulated that summarizes in some detail the various provisions of the bill. if you are voting on it, you sort of know what is in it. the key issue is that you do not know where all the little traps are, where the polls are. i can promise you that 95% of the people voting on that bill have no idea that there was a carved out for green energy interests in what is called the bove rule. it is. -- what is called the volcker rule. it was buried in one paragraph. back to my point, many years ago, i did an article about the

patriot act which was not a piece of legislation at all but a bunch of changes in existing criminal statutes. i could not find any member of congress who had actually read the thing. host: columbia, tenn., will on our line for independence. go ahead. caller: think you, c-span, and thank you, stephen,. you were kind of like a consumer advocate for us in your editorial comments. i hope that you are a christian. it seems like a lot of the people on c-span, or those who work at c-span, are christians though they are kind of silence in their comments. they did not take sides either way. i just wanted to make a couple comments real quick about -- i know when we were paying $3 for each of the presidential candidates over the last i did

not know how many years, 20 years or so. that was supposed to eliminate a lot of the problems with the lobbyists and the pac money coming in for the elections. how is that many supposed to be used? i do not know. i think it is kind of ridiculous that everyone is paying $3 for the election and the money is already wasted. the thing i am concerned about though is we have three branches of government. all three nations -- all three branches of this great nation are supposed to be working for the american citizen who is giving their all. the thing about it, the only thing we have is the christian faith. host: let's move on to denver, colorado. guest: i will just ignore -- i think the same amendment i was

talking about that gives us the right to free speech and the right to petition the government also makes whenever my religion is completely irrelevant to the conversation. host: we will leave it there. steven brill is a catcher. writer for "time" magazine. -- steven brill as a contributing writer. thank you for being on the program, sir. guest: think you for having me. host: we will be opening of the funds to give you an opportunity to talk about things have seen or heard on the program this morning or other things that may be in your local newspapers. the numbers are on your screen. on the front page of "the houston chronicle," on the right

section, there is an article about credit scores hitting a new low in the u.s.. the credit scores of millions of more americans are sinking to new lows. figures show -- figures provided by five go shows that 25.5% -- figures provided by fico said that 43.4 million people now have a credit score of 599 or below. also in the newspapers this morning, issue of may oral oversight to go before the

council. -- the issue of mayoral oversight. in "the boston globe," and even response on earmarks despite a new requirement for disclosure. some members of the massachusetts congregation have talked lists for errors in obscure marks of their official websites making the proposals more difficult public to find. also this morning in the newspapers, "the chicago tribune," the lead story is

about the danger of the rails. "the chicago sun-times" has all sorts of items including the chicago white sox being in first place. "the miami herald," there lead story has to do with the rain in spain, the conclusion of the world cup and the wind by the spanish team yesterday. also in the sidebar, an item regarding the first lady. first lady michelle obama visit panama city as the latest administration envoy to the oil spills on. we will go to the funds. on our line for democrats, good morning. caller: good morning. host: where are you from? caller: my name is judy and i am from ennis, texas.

i wanted to say a few things about what has been going on this morning. i do not understand about republicans, in general, a republican lawmakers. they are all getting a check from the government. they make a whole lot more than the average person makes. yet they cannot understand and sympathize with people that do not have any money coming in, any money at all. that is what is so hurtful. their life is going on and yet you have individuals that are barely making it with $300 a week. that, to me, -- how can you stand up there and get a check.

you're in charge is practically free. yet you cannot -- york insurance is practically free. host: "the denver post," as a story about school funds. federal authorities are encouraging school districts to spend education stimulus money to save jobs and blunt the effects of statewide budget cuts.

next up is from illinois on our line for republicans. go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. regarding your previous commentator on the issue of lobbying, i really believe that public financing of campaigns is the ultimate answer to undo the influence of lobbyists. the question was asked, "what decides how the congressman votes on a bill based on lobbying interests"? they vote in favor of who gives them the most campaign contributions. that leads us back to cover -- public financing of campaigns to take the pressure off of our congress people and senators so they can make the best decisions based on the evidence and not on who can help them get more elected. host: have there ever been an

issue you have felt so strongly about that you called your representative or started a letter-writing campaign? caller: i have called durbin's office. ironically enough, after mr. bernanke and their furniture crisis, he was being grilled by the senate. the poor man had just performed a miracle by keeping us from going into a depression. i call them and i said, "good god. tell this people to lay off. he saved our butts." i was very passionate during that call. i follow politics a lot and i am very frustrated by, you know, the fact that i am a republican. i am a liberal republican. i am probably the only liberal republican in town because i believe in helping poor people. i think it is terrible they have not extended the unemployment. that is another issue you talked

about this morning. for heaven's sake, there are a lot of people who need jobs and are trying to get jobs. all of our teachers are off this summer. they go to school 190 days a year in our area. how can we educate our work force? host: we're going to move on to minneapolis, minnesota. on our line for independence. thank you for waiting. caller: hello? thank you for having me today. i am naturally kind of a frightened right now. host: we do not want to frighten you, so we will move on to bonny light, washington. donald, go ahead. caller: that is donna. host: sorry about that. caller: there is an offer, tom hartman, who wrote the book, "equal protection," and other

various things. the citizens united case is in their and it talks about all the big money going to politicians. i would recommend, "equal protection," by tom hartman. there is also a web site called the move to amend to amend the constitution to let people -- corporations are not people. i would love to see that endorsed because i just think this is a dangerous direction. host: "the hartford current" has this story. the focus on work trauma.

next up is santa barbara on our line for republicans. go ahead. caller: thank you. host: are you with me? caller: yes, sir. host: more headlines regarding

spain's triumph in the world cup. "the los angeles times" as their lead item about auto safety legislation scaled-back. they say the bill changed amidst industry opposition.