e safety issues for employees in the u.s. capitol complex and health and human services assistant secretary will take your questions about the administration's new plan to combat hiv aids. "washington journal" is next. . . host: when it comes to congress, how old is too old? there are the numbers on the screen. for democrats, 202-737-0002.

for republicans, 202-737-0001. for independents, 202-628-0205. please allow 30 days between your calls. you can send us a twitter message at twitter.com/c-spanwj if you would like, or send us an e-mail at journal@c-span.org. how old is too old when it comes to being in congress? "only death can usually break an elderly or incapacitated politicians hold on his seat, but senator byrd's decline raised an uncomfortable question. household is too old? in one of his last visits to the senate, senator byrd was propped up by two aides. his hand shook and wobbled. there is a culture of protection amongst elderly

lawmakers as they insist that they are more powerful and elderly than heather, -- than ever, hanging onto their seats. "i am doing my job much better than 10 years ago for being senior. presidents are responding to me better," said former house ways and means committee member, charles rangel. "i am doing much better based on experience based on seniority and the ability to get support for americans and my district." indeed, in interviews with a handful of senatorial octogenarians, they insist they are doing better now even though they are 15 years past the average retirement age for americans. "frankly, i am more effective now than ever before in my

career, and people know that," said representative john dingell. "the experience i have gained over time prove useful on boats like to repeal of glass-stiegel and the second iraq war." still, senator byrd's final years on capitol hill raised questions about why some elderly members refused to pass the torch. the same questions trail led largely incapacitated senator strom thurmond into his late 90's as he left the senate at age 100." again, when it comes to congress, how old is too old? justin, neb., republican. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i do not think that age has so

much bearing on it as term limits. i think we have guys in there for too long, they are getting too comfortable. term limits are placed on presidents for a reason. a lot of people think -- forget about how much coal that congress actually has. i think that term limits are something that we should focus on. host: john, saratoga springs, how old is too old in congress? caller: let me preface this by saying that i am about 48. i am not a young man. but once you had about 70, i think you are too old. these men get entrenched in there. some of the things that they do, they are out of touch they have been there for so long. they have more power than the president. everyone blames the president for everything, but these guys make the big decisions, really.

once you are not sharp and out of touch with the times, they have money and it is time to move on. i can hardly wait for the younger people to get in there does because of the fact that some of these issues that they argue over, like today's, with the younger people it is a non issue. they will waste hours of time on these issues because frankly socially and other ways they do not have a clue. that is about it. host: thank you for calling in this morning. "the washington post" recently had a forum online about age in congress. this is former senator slade gorton, a republican of washington. he wrote "senator byrd served at

least one full term too long, both for the institution in his state, mostly as a result of ego or record seeking. they did so at the behest of their constituents and i do not believe that that option should be taken away from the voters." tom, new jersey, what do you think? caller: in lieu of term limits, i think that congress members should be limited to at least retirement age. these people are legislating laws that will impact the generations after they are dead. they get to a point where they will be legislating to people in future generations that will not have control over at. host: i want to read you this and get your response.

this is a group of cadets asked to comment on a job in congress. this is what one of them wrote about senator in a way -- "if seniority incapacitates a leader, it is up to the opponents to make that clear to voters. the architect of american democracy anticipated problems like aids in the case of an incapable senator, the antidote is available every six years." caller: an excellent point, but career politicians stay in office because of a lack of voter out turnout and motivation. host: all right, thank you for calling in this morning.

washington, d.c., what do you think? caller: term limitations should not be contested by age. like industry, everything is measured by performance these days. with all of the accountability and transparency, there should be a structure are around that. but this is based on terms served or physical age, everyone is different. they can always use that point against how welcome the is at any -- they are at any age. but there should be some kind of structured around a leader, municipal or federal, doing their job. that is the argument right now. host: what about this argument that some of these older members are not as adept at speaking of the issues that are upcoming or currently being faced?

caller: i agree with that and that is kind of what i am saying. there should be a measure of whether a leader is relevant. host: what is the measure? who creates it? caller: i would have to say that that would come from -- i guess i am pigeonholing myself, i think it comes from oversight within the government itself. while we elect these folks in, we as citizens and voters get to witness -- you know, performance review like you would find in an industry based job. host: would that not take power away from the voters? caller: i do not think it you would if you actively solicit their participation. for all of the reasons that we vote someone in, there should be a list of reasons to measure whether or not someone is performing.

i am not saying that there should be an opportunity for impeachment, but in this age of accountability and relevance, there is a big public relations outreach machine, people coming to them and representing what is being done in government. host: let's leave it there. daniel, newark, california. caller: i wanted to discuss with you how very like dick is the day. host: and we will move on to shreveport, louisiana. caller: the problem i have with age limits, we are a democracy and we forget that older people make up the demographic in this country. it only makes sense for them to

be represented in congress because it should not matter, your age or term limits. even though you may have as far as performance, that is unrealistic to supervise a person or write them by their performance. we are a democracy and we have republicans and democrats. no one is ever going to agree. but to say that age limits that should be looked at, that is not realistic. like i said, they are a part of our demographic, just like the nation itself. host: thank you for calling in this morning. more from "the washington post" forum. "although senator byrd of live the life span, he possessed an institutional knowledge that could not be gained any other way than endurance some could

argue comes from an unwillingness to let go. it has less to do with the senator and more to do with those who are elected the same person over and over. maryland, ray, good morning. caller: if the people should step down from the senate and the congress when they are 70 years old, why is it that the supreme court people stay on their sometimes until they are dead? that is ridiculous. they all should step down because if the senators are not capable of doing their job, which apparently is the case now, they are not doing their job, because of age, the supreme court, they should also be retired at 70.

host: nor folk, new york, bob, you are on the air. caller: thank you for the opportunity. they have got to give you the best. so, i think that there should be term limits on these guys. an old dog can learn good new tricks. i think that i would like to see term limits. thank you very much. host: this is from "the new york times" this morning. "former bush justice department official that approve the brutal methods told congress that he never authorize other rough tactics reportedly inflicted on terrorism suspects. in closed-door testimony before the house judiciary committee on may 26, the official said that the cia never sought

approval for some practices, including dousing with cold water, keeping them awake, forcing them to wear diapers. these techniques were not authorized, he said, according to the transcript on thursday, but the judge strongly defended the legal advice from 2000 to, that other methods used by the cia were lawful." the next call on the age of congress and whether to hold -- members that are older should be retired. fort worth, texas. caller: age would be a non- issue. before the 17th amendment, states could recall senators. with that very fact, if a state disagreed with a senator's views, they could recall them and actually put a different senator in place.

i am saying that we should look at the ability to do something of that nature. if we do not agree with their politics, we should change how they govern. it is what we used to do and i do not see the problem with looking at that as a real solution to this real problem. the age issue is a non-issue. we should actually be teaching our senators and congressmen that all longer that you serve, the less likely you are to be approved by your constituents. host: back to the political article on age in congress. "is not only taboo on the hill to question lawmaker capability,

but it brings an influential longevity to their roles. "i have dedicated my entire life to congress and i think i should be able to attend committee meetings. apparently the people of senator byrd wanted to give him the ability to do what he was doing but there is a likely reason that senator byrd's a physical state was overlooked by west virginia. he was able to grab projects all by himself, almost $30 million with other lit -- other lawmakers in the 2009 spending bill. even during extended absences from the hill he still managed to sponsor several pieces of legislation, including one with five co-sponsors. myrtle beach, south carolina.

caller: i have to agree with that last article. it is not an age issue, it is a term limit issue. the longer they are there, the more power they get, and with it that power they bring money to your state and than it does not matter how bad off you are, you want to keep sending them back. the problem with our is once they do leave, you wind up with a lot of men in lobbyist positions, i think there are over 300 former congressman working for lobbyists right now. term limits are the answer. host: we have a clear message here, "no one should be allowed to run after the age of 84 senate.

health can decline very quickly." from "politico," the current 80 and up club includes representatives charlie rangel, hall, inouye, and bill young. several octogenarians remain in high-pressure positions on the hill. luis slaughter, at 80 she presides over the house committee on rules." harlem, mary, you are on the air. what do you think? caller: greetings, greetings, greetings. yes, i think that there should be age limits and term limits. after 75 i think that people's mental capacity sometimes is a little bit swayed.

i think that they should get out of there by the age of 70, actually. as far as charles rangel is concerned, he is giving away everything that we had. clayton powell was a good congressman. host: you are not a fan of charlie rangel? caller: absolutely not. he should have retired longtime ago. he made sure -- not anybody in owns anything anymore. host: are you going to the harlem book fair tomorrow? caller: yes, i am. host: we will be up there. caller: i will stop and say hello. host: please do. c-span 2, just to blow up our own horns and a little bit, "book tv," wins honor for its

work. "winning the film of weekly award tomorrow for the harlem book fair, given for literary work and literary advocacy that pushes boundaries of racial perceptions." we will be there, covering it live all day tomorrow on c-span 2. flint, michigan, what do you think? caller: good morning to stan. i am a full stop -- first-time caller. i agree with the twitter message about the age of 80. that is good. after the age of 80 health becomes unpredictable. not the mental state, but the physical state. 30 years maximum in the senate or the house. that is what i think. host: is an arbitrary just to

pick and age? caller: i do not know about that, there is a lot of wisdom in a person as they get older. it is hard to say. it is more or less about their physical health. one slip and fall, they are out and incapacitated. i hate to say that. in grandparents and great grandparents. -- i have great britain -- i have grandparents and great grandparents. host: over the years, many senators have been elected at ages 75 or older. "senator byrd was 88 when he won his last reelection in 2006. the average age of congress members has been creeping up steadily, hitting a record high in the 111th congress. overall, congress has a history

of turning a blind eye to long absences for physical ailments or health issues related to age." point pleasant, west virginia. patrick, what is your perspective on this? caller: good morning. i think that your last brief reading there was right on point. we cannot have age limits. we would have to rewrite so many laws. if you do it to the legislature, you have to do it to the judge's and it is not likely that happen. senator byrd, up until the last short while, you could have meetings with him. you could see and observe that he was beginning to slip. but he was very beautiful to his state, his wife and family, as well as the country. as long as the state has the

power to reelect, it is their say. host: you mentioned that in meetings you could see that perhaps his sharpness was lessened. did you vote for him in 2006 when he was 88? caller: i certainly did. if he was still with us and able to carry out his job, i would look for anyone but i thought would be up to serving, even into their 90s. but it is tricky. the gentleman was partially correct in that their health it's unpredictable -- gets unpredictable. we all have health issues where we can recover more easily when we are younger. sometimes wisdom comes with going through the gauntlet of serving and re-election, hearing from your critics.

the caller earlier that said the longer you are in office, the more that they attack you. nebulous enough to say that if you are one party or the other, it is the other party or the people that do not like you. that is politics. host: this twitter, "how old is too old to serve in congress when citizens stop voting for geriatric candidate's"? "dpz faced a new fuehrer on thursday as they confirmed that they had lobbied the british -- "bp faced a new fuehuror on thursday as they confirmed that they had lobbied the british

government to release a prisoner transfer from the libyan government. the acknowledgement came after american legislators grappling with the controversy over the company's disastrous gulf of mexico oil spill called for an investigation into bp's actions in the case of the freedman." pittsburg, pennsylvania, republican, what do you think about age in congress? caller: most people are not even talking about this problem, once these senators and congressmen get in there, the longer they are in their the more they care less about what the people want. they are looking for votes. in other areas. they ignore the things that we

are really concerned about most of the time. i think that that is the only good reason for term limits. host: clarksburg, west virginia. democratic line. caller: i just want to point out to the people that the citizens of the united states, if you look back at the indian tribes there are always older people there and there's a reason why. history would repeat itself. our congress is supposed to represent all of the people. we have several elderly people in our country. as far as senator byrd, he was often credited with bringing money back to west virginia. if you look at the roads that opened up t, if something happed

in washington you would have escape routes out. host: you do not have a problem with senator byrd's service? caller: no, he cares about west virginia. that is the most thing they want out of your senator. he cares about west virginia. it was not a game with him. like the fbi center that we got here, he took a lot of credit for bringing that here. but many terrorists have been caught because that thing had been moved there. it is the best facility you could ask for. host: thank you for calling in this morning. finally, a little bit more from "politico." "many that do not resign after becoming incapacitated serve out the majority of their terms,

according to the congressional research service. for that reason, there have been several cases of stunning absences. former senator carter glass of virginia was away from the senate for four years before his death in 1946. after his stroke, former senator carl mundt of south dakota was reportedly absent from the senate floor for almost three years before he decided not to run for reelection in 1972. and then there is the more recent example of former representative john grotberg of illinois, who slipped into a five week, in 1986 from complications to a cancer treatment and did not return to congress for the rest of the session." wanda, good morning. caller: this is my first time calling in. i think that term limits would do better than age limits. people would still be around to

give their knowledge and experience, even down the line. i think that term limits are better than age. host: thank you, welcome. please call in again. this is in "the washington post'," this morning. "pump found to extend heart patient lives. if former vice president dick cheney's experience is similar to other patients, he has a better than 50% chance of surviving two years. the device should allow him do as -- activities as strenuous as riding a bicycle, but it is

far from a miracle cure for it -- and stayed congestive heart failure, the condition for which he apparently suffers. in a statement wednesday he said he was entering a new phase of the disease and decided to take advantage of one of the new technologies available. he has not made public the key details of his treatment, including the exact type of device he received. it is not know whether a heart transplant is being considered. but experts on heart failure and a published studies of ventricular assist devices sketch a general picture of his prognosis. it is likely received a heartmate ii lvad, made by the california company thoratec. it is an electrical device implanted in the chest that draws blood from the left ventricle and pumps it into the

aorta, the main artery leaving the heart." they have a chart here in this article by david brown. here is the chart. you can see here that this is the pump did is inserted in the heart, categorized to a battery pack over here born around -- worn around the waist. the batteries must be replaced within minutes of a low battery alarm, users must always -- always carries bears. -- spares. boeing beach, what you think about age limits in congress? caller: it is unconstitutional to think about age limits. it is amazing the way that people view this. i do not know how old are forefathers were -- our

forefathers were, but i am sure that they were in the upper tier of their life span. i do not think that a man who is 90 functions as well as a man who is 60, etc., etc., but what about experience? if you cannot govern, you cannot run a business unless you have people with experience and know the back rooms as well as the front rooms, understanding the interconnecting policies that run through everything. age is a wonderful thing. this is a state right. yes. but there is a provision for this. not just lunacy, saying that he gets thrown out even though he is younger than me, so to speak.

host: lewis, thank you. redding, pennsylvania. frank, independent line. caller: am i on now? chost: yes, sir. caller: i never got through before. i would like to see term limits. it is really important. host: term limits rather than age limits? caller: yes. i would rather see you not get elected until you are 60, then you have some experience in life and you can project what the people want. the problem is if you have term limits of six years, then you are out. if you are in, you are part of the problem and not the solution. these guys get earmarks. all that they do is want to satisfy their constituents, so they get reelected rather than do the right thing.

if someone does not need a library in an area, why put it there? waste the money. i do not think you should get elected until you are 60. now you have some experience in life and you have something to bring to the table. getting elected and reelected, reelected, it is a joke. congressman, they get in, they do not work, they just run for reelection. they should cut congress in half. term limits, cut congress in half. get realistic. a person that works for a living, as i have all my life -- i am 75 years old and i have worked since i am 8. and i am still going. they keep raising the bar. host: what kind of work? caller: i did accounting for years. my father was a truck driver.

i worked in a bakery. i worked my way through school. host: doing anything today? caller: i am retired. finally i got to retire, something that happens. but they have so many things that they can do. anyone else that fines themselves trapped in business -- host: how is your health? caller: i had prostate cancer, i have been treating it for the last 15 years and it is pretty good. host: do you think you have the physical health and mental agility to be a member of congress? caller: for six years, yes. i think i have the experience. i think i have an understanding. host: let's flip that. you have the experience, but the feel that some of the upcoming issues -- one of the callers are brought gay rights as an issue

that may bbe some of the older members are not adept with. caller: the key is that we forgot god that created us. we cannot get away from that. the problem is, when we crossed the line, he says you did not do the right thing and you are not going. the thing is to do the right thing. host: and other issues, obviously. other issues that may be are upcoming. caller: like abortion. you do not have a right to do that. what you have a right to do is keep your legs closed. host: if you decide to run for office, let us know. georgia, good morning. caller: thank you. i am so proud to get on, i have

been trying for so long. this is just my opinion. i think that at 70 it is long enough to serve. i enjoy them, some of those guys, but they become out of touch. the reason i say that, i am 69 myself. sometimes i know when to take some younger person take it. i thank you for taking my call. host: how is your health, georgia? caller: not very good. host: sorry to hear that. caller: thank you. host: thank you for calling in. henry, a national park. caller: arkansas. listen, please do not cut me off. i am 86 years old. i retired at 68.

my health did not start going down -- 66 i went to the hospital for the first time. for the first time myself and i had open heart surgery. age limits in congress should be no more than social security requires. the thing that i would like to see done, the entire congress system has to be changed. term limits. when people are elected they should be in office for six month increments. they should be paid by the hour like everyone else. congress gets so large. they get elected to congress and

they bring a bunch of people with them. it should be limited to four people when they go to congress. no more. get the congress to come down. we should go through six month increments on term limits. host: henry, thank you for calling in this morning. mitchell, atlanta, republican line. what do you think about congress and age? caller: how are you this morning? host: good. caller: i do not see a problem with that, really. i would work for a more principled person as long as they keep the principled attitude. i look at someone like ron paul, who i believe is 76. he has energized an entire mass

group of young people over the past three years since his election to. -- his election. he has been in congress for three decades now, in and out. as long as someone is able to do their job and function at their job and keep principled, i do not see a problem with age. host: this e-mail, "you are only too old when you start to lose your mental facilities. the only limits should be term limits. it is important to have good politicians with a long history of the institutions." another e-mail, "we already have term limits, congressman's terms are limited to two years, senators' terms are limited to six years, and then it is up to the voters to re-elect them or not." brent, los angeles.

caller: how are you this morning? host: good, how are you? caller: doing all right. if you have term limits or age limits, you will eventually end up with corporations and special interest groups that will room people to become congressmen or senators -- ro --andgroom peoplo become congressman are senators -- groom people to become congressmen or senators, they will do their bidding. you will completely discouraged people that want to be public servants to go to school and get that training and become the senators that are going to try to govern our country and our states. you'll just end up with a bunch of corporate people in there.

just eviscerating what we have got for government. host: lead editorial this morning in "the new york times." "as was the case with last year's economic stimulus, republican opposition to the bill was primarily an attempt to drag down mr. obama by killing any legislative accomplishment. and that was headed for failure republican leaders disparage the bill on ideological grounds. senator mcconnell lashed out on thursday on what he called a government driven solution from the senior republican on the banking committee who bemoaned vast new bureaucracies. convenient and time tested bugaboos for campaigns in which they ignore the urgent needs that the bill addresses." that is "the new york times" editorial.

in "the wall street journal," editorial, "the bill promises to generate historic levels of red tape, but apparently the 2300 pages are so complicated that a debate has broken out about precisely how many new regulatory rules it will require. while that might seem that the regulatory uncertainty created by the bill might not last longer than a decade as new rules are implemented, they could be optimistic when regulators are granted to authorities without expiration dates from their powers, rulemaking possibilities are infinite. finally from "the new york times" business section this morning, cutbacks and banks see a chance to grow this morning. "bankers are already a step ahead of everyone else in the regulatory system. approved by congress on thursday.

bankers are turning to plan b, they didn't -- intend to pass many of the costs associated with the bill to their customers, curbing the most risky behavior on wall street." time for a cute -- time for a few more calls. darrell, good morning. caller: thank you for c-span. that video library is incredible. host: isn't it? caller: anyone who has not been there, they need to go. host: so easy to search term. caller: yes. i am very grateful for it. you can see what you're congress is doing, if you really care.

host: everything we have covered in 30 years is on there. absolutely stunning. thank you for the commercial, but go on. caller: i do not really believe in term limits. even presidential term limits, i do not really believe in them. people vote in and out who they really want to vote in and out. people are a lot smarter than what politicians give them. as you can see for the last couple of years, congress people have been in office for a long time. host: this is more about aids than term limits. caller: this is arlen specter. he has been going on for 20 years, i am sure. i do not think that age has

anything to do with it. i note a person in particular who is 94, -- i know a person in particular his 94 and she is feisty. host: what you do in baltimore? caller: in a service manager at a senior facility. i work with old people all the time here. host: thank you for calling in. nicklaus, silver spring, maryland. caller: good morning, sir. i find this to be a fascinating topic. the issue of term limits, i would focus on the microcosm of the election cycle limit. the reason for me, it is related to the previous elderly gentleman's statement that he thought that congress should work with six month election cycles. the reason it is important for

me, these election cycles were created back when america was still using horse and carriage. couriers on horses. the government, for a greater time, to accomplish a smaller amount of work or legislation, now we have got -- i was watching c-span the other day. while the congressman was making his speech he was getting phone calls from multiple cell phones. host: tie that in to age in congress. caller: i think we need to have smaller election cycles. they have far too much power to do too much and are doing a lot more in a shorter amount of time than when the structure was originally created.

host: we believe it there. in "the financial times" this morning they have an entire page on be feet. interviews with staff and etc.. -- they have an entire page of bn bp. interviews with staff and etc.. tony hayward, receiving about 3,158,000 hallam2008 pounds in . if your interested, this is in "the financial times." coming up next we will be discussing job creation and stimulus spending. we will be right back.

♪ >> the senate judiciary committee has postponed their vote on elena kagan until next tuesday. watch live coverage on c-span 3 and at. learn more about the nation's highest court in c-span's newest book, providing unique insight about the court. available in hardcover and on each book -- e-book. >> we have added a new feature to the c-span library. you can search for any

congressional bill, limit status, watched debate from the house and senate floor. you will see it right on the page, make your search as general and specific as you would like. online and free, washington your way. c-span is now available in over 100 million homes, bringing you washington your way. a public service created by america's cable company. >> "washington journal" continues. host: on your screen now is veronique de rugy of george mason university. she is joining us to talk about job creation and stimulus spending. does stimulus spending that we have had so far in the united states, has it led to job creation?

surguest: there is no saying tht the people that created the money have not created jobs. the way the administration is now counting on their web site job creation, pretty much anyone, whether or not their job was at stake. looking at how many people have reported some receiving stimulus money in job creation is on recovery.gov. but these jobs have high-cost and cannot actually create long, sustainable jobs. you get jobs when the government money is in, but it disappears

when the money goes away. that is not a sustainable job. host: i want to get your reaction to this statement. >> in our reports we estimate the impact in two ways. one is a mod based approach similar to that used by the congressional budget office, using multiplier efforts in how that outlays translate. the second approach that we use to estimate the employment impact does not depend on policy multipliers estimated from past history, instead uses statistical procedures to reject the likely path of employment based on information available through the end of the first quarter of 2009, when the recovery act was passed, comparing past employment with a forecast baseline. the model based approach raises

it by 2 million jobs as of a quarter of this year. of these jobs saved or created, more than 800,000 are because of the public investment that has occurred so far. the projection approach yields a substantially larger number, suggesting employment as of the second quarter is 3.6 million higher than it otherwise would have been. it has met the president's goal of saving or creating 3.5 million jobs, two quarters earlier than anticipated. host: what is your reaction? guest: they made great segues. let's not forget the president's goal based on this lady's projection, back before the stimulus was passed. the goal was that in the next few years, 45 million jobs would be created, without stimulus

unemployment would reach 8.8%. what we know is that that promise was made, that goal was expressed. unemployment has hovered around 10%. way past the 8.8% that the administration said we would reach without the stimulus. so, unemployment has been raised and it does not seem that many jobs have been created. we also know that americans are wondering where these jobs are. one of the things that is actually extremely weird about what christina roemer is saying, there is one place where the administration claimed jobs, recovering.gov. host: we will come back to your thought i won second, i want to get the caller involved. we are talking about job

creation and economic spending. veronique de rugy is our guest. for democrats, 202-737-0002. for republicans, 202-737-0001. for independents, 202-628-0205. we will begin taking your calls in just a minute. go ahead, professor. guest: on recovery.gov, it is very optimistic and makes the administration look good, only 682,000 jobs have been created. importantly, this historical data that she is talking about, the academic data -- harvard recently released this very important study that actually looks at historical data, actual

data, not a statistical projection as she explains. if you spend $1 to create jobs, the return that you get is between 40 cents and 70 cents. i imagine of america's businesses had this type of return on their investments. america would not have been the engine of the business world for so long. host: there is the counter argument that without government spending at this point, businesses would afford their money -- hoard their money. is that a fair argument in your view? guest: is not a fair argument. why is there so much capital on the sideline? 1.8 trillion is being held on the side. why? but because of the uncertainty

in government policy. basically we know that there is another thing that is important in terms of spending, why stimulus spending cannot create jobs. the federal government, they give out money from the sky. businesses know that when government spends money, they will be taxed later. meaning less capital for the private sector, right? what it shows in their study is that it is not just $1 of government spending only creates 40 cents to 70 cents of economic growth, but it shrinks the economy if government spending is a product of spending. it shrinks it by $1.10. i am just kind of puzzled by

these projections. they are not projections. there are not names and projections behind those 3.5 million jobs that are claimed. host: what is the center at george mason? caller: economic policy. we also have professors from the law school. we are a nonpartisan, nonprofit academic research center. host: is that the mercatus center where you do your s -- stimulus spending blogging? guest: is more than a blog, it is an official study. we actually tried to find out, based on actual data, where the

money goes, how it has been spent, and what the factors are that lead to the spending. one of the things that i know, for every job created, the job costs $280,000. remember the claim that 90% of the jobs would be in the private sector? data clearly shows that four out of five jobs were created in the public sector, not the private sector. host: veronique de rugy is our guest. the first call for her is from val, sanford, florida. democratic line. go ahead. caller: i missed what i wanted to make a statement about, about the time that people should serve in the white house. i want to say that we have had two presidents, one had no brain and the other had alzheimer's. is just a mess. host: we have switched topics.

we appreciate your calling in. brandon, republican. job creation and economic stimulus. caller: this stimulus package is stimulating by dick. host: detroit, richard, independent line. caller: i just read in the detroit news this morning how they gave $1 million for a south korean company to make a battery plant in michigan. host: you live in michigan, you know what the economic situation is. "the washington post," they have an article on that very issue. do you think it is a good idea for the government?

caller: is a good idea to create jobs, but why can we not have our own company from the u.s.? rather than a foreign company. . .

host: any thoughts on his thoughts? guest: i do, but bad news. even if i thought that government spending was capable of creating long term, spendable jobs that the american people can count on, the stimulus report here at the center shows that unemployment is actually not a factor that leads to the decision of spending money no matter how you

look at unemployment rates, it is not a factor to how we spend money. you would think that it would, but there's not much interest in actually looking at distressed areas where jobs have been lost and finding solutions for these particular areas. even if i thought that it could work. host: andy, republican line, texas. guecaller: i am sorry, i cannot renounce your first name. i would love to see her as an adviser to mr. obama, she has got it right. she is doing an excellent description of what needs to be done. we are at the point where we are looking for a hand out looking for a job.

we need to get the private sector moving again. i believe that if we did that the united states could pick itself up. i think that we will just put ourselves deeper and deeper into the hole. this young woman has an outstanding idf on what needs to be done. -- outstanding idea about what needs to be done. guest: we need businesses that want to hire people. of course there is consumer demand and things like this, but to take risk, to invest, to let go of the capital they are holding, it has to be operating in a stable economic environment.

not knowing about the financial bill coming, there will be a lot of change. there is so much uncertainty, i am not saying that there is not an important job for congress to play, but businesses and family can flourish. we become risktakers again. host: spokane, washington.

caller: the only way did you create wealth is through farming and mining, hanging paper everywhere, as long as there is no sanction on the crime, let them keep doing it. people are worried about hyperinflation if you do not know if the currency of your land will be any good. guest: i agree. the federal government does not have any money. the federal government is printing money, we know that there has been a lot of that

going on. the problem is that in this country, politicians have lost this fear of inflation. what it does, you actually want to invest but you have no idea what the value of your dollar is going to be. if you do not know how much you can sell it again for is worth, i absolutely agree. the stability that needs to be injected, understanding of limitations, stopping spending other people's money, printing money, pretending like it is money falling from the sky. host: veronique de rugy received a ph.d. from the sorbone in paris. what was your pieces? guest: tax revolt.

i looked at the ways that tax figures change behavior depending on the cost of each one of the revolts. for instance, if you pardon the penalty for tax evasion, the light switch over. the u.s. was very interesting, they have an initiative department of the french did not have. i looked at things like this. host: there is a big debate in the national assembly in france about upping the retirement age from 60 to 62. guest: yes, i am assuming that it will pass. 62, we are talking about public employees that have retired.

host: georgia, you are on with veronique de rugy. you have been easy to understand. -- guest: you have been easy to understand, thank you. voters do not have a choice of hermley in any of these decisions. yet we do not have any republicans that are stopping the bill that is being passed. you will always have two republicans to give them the votes that they need. i feel that we have one government. the people, we have no say. that is making s so uncomfortable. i would like to have your opinion on that.

guest: i understand your frustration. not only is it frustrating, but it is troubling. while there was support, there was the fence for stimulus. there is great, great -- it is clear that people did not want to go out to the outer industry. yet it passed. the american people were against health care reform. yet it passed. i have been frustrated with republicans for the last eight years.

congressman paul ryan, for instance, has had a plan for a long time. congressman jim jordan, there are some serious people on the republican side. if only the rest of the republican party could follow them. host: eunice, republican line. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. this is considered jobless recovery, which i do not understand. i am not unemployed, but i am underpaid. i do not care where the jobs are coming from. the private sector or the public sector.

you say that they have $1.20 trillion in capital, which i feel that they are holding as a hammer against the working people. give us these tax breaks or there will be this uncertainty in the future and we will not create these jobs. we do not care where they are coming from, we need jobs. guest: they know that starting in january, taxes are going to go up dramatically. remember, one-third of small business owners file their

business and, under the personal income tax. a business in, of 250,000 will be hit, hit by tax cuts. health-care costs with all that stuff, they are keeping that money to face the future. to be honest, i understand that. consumers and families have changed their behavior because they fear the future. people are consuming much less, saving much more. why is that? they fear the tax increases that are coming their way. businesses are doing this thing where if they want to stay

alive and keep implying the people that they have, they are going back to have money on the side. why would you take any risk in such an environment? we need to remember that the government cannot create these jobs. stop spending. businesses have changed their behavior, like in washington not stop spending? guest: -- host: what about the bush tax cuts? guest: what is that about tax cuts other kinds that -- are the

kinds that do not change behavior. economic studies have shown that you tax marginal tax rates that give incentive for people to produce more and be more productive. these are good things. again, think about, even if you say that rich people should be taxed more and contribute more, when you look at the data they pay more than their fair share in taxes. even if you think that they should pay more, again, businesses, small businesses that are the lifeline of the american business from, they are going to be the ones suffering, they will be the ones paying these tax increases. i do not understand why on the one hand the government says that they are good view, we are spending this money on your, but on the other hand we will hit you hard on the head, it is

completely inconsistent. host: do you think that the government aid to gm and chrysler was effective? like guest: know, it wa not. in the same way that aid to the states is not effective. there is a reason why these companies and states -- the analogy is good, they run their businesses poorly. injecting money is actually allowing them to prolong bad behavior. and it is a mistake. a mistake for the states, the reason that we have budget gaps is we spend so much money. if you give them more money to allow to keep stimulus spending, nothing will happen. remember, there are all of these teachers that are important. but their job is not safe. once that money goes away, they

will be on the chopping board again. they did not actually secure these jobs. the only way they will be able to secure these jobs it -- is the states get their budgets in order. host: aaron, michigan, go ahead. caller: thank you for putting me on this program. good morning. i listened to veronique de rugy talking about budgets and things like that. but the key behind industrial jobs, the jobs we have always had the in middle america, that is what made our country great. putting the other stuff out, everything was made in china and overseas.

the key here is how we will get back those industrial jobs. when i was in the late 1950's and early 1960's, everything that i touched was made no more. i would say two things. first, we do not need the unions. that is a fact. second, naphtha, wto, we need to get out of them. we need to focus on one industry at a time and try to bring the jobs back here. i do not care how they manage it, but the key is how we get them back. host: you are calling on the republican line, also calling from detroit. do you think it was a good idea for the government to give aid to chrysler and general motors?

caller: in the first guy to admit two things. the union has dragged the gm down like a big way. second, we had bad management. there is no question about it. what the hell are we supposed to do? have them go banupt? all that we are going to find is toyota, nissan, those korean companies selling cars. we need those companies. guest: i understand how he feels on the ground, but one of the things he needs to understand is that when jobs are outsourced by companies, it means that we can produce things cheaper. the reason why everything you touch is made in china, korea, and abroad, it is because it allows american consumers to

purchase lots and lots of things much cheaper. yesterday i was talking about this with my research assistant, she told me that she had just read a study that made complete sense for that exact reason. job's going abroad, producing cheaper goods, but then in wal- mart they hire a lot of people. for each job that you lose, you gain more than one job in america. you lose an industrial job, but you gain more jobs in other sectors of the industry. i understand that it does not make it better for the industry that loses the jobs, but overall america is much better off because we can afford much more things. host: the next call comes from baltimore. please go ahead with your

comment. caller: good morning. i have a question in a comment. my comment is that of people that say that government cannot create jobs, i wish that president obama could actually take some of those military contracts that have been in the private sector, move them into the communities, black and poor communities where we can benefit from those kinds of permanent government jobs. those people that have those jobs, they have permanent jobs. by the government. those corporations that moved overseas, it is foolish to think they will never come back. the nature of the beast is they try to get production at the cheapest cost. people want to blame the union. in a retired firefighter. because of the union i have a better lifestyle for risking my

life running into buildings to save you people in your property. guest: i am glad that there are firefighters. really glad. recent studies show that thankfully, firefighting is one of the least risky profession. the thing that we have to understand is that everything has a cost. when the government pays union prices for anything above the market price, first the private sector can compete. more importantly, taxpayers are paying that money, less money that they can spend on hiring a cleaning lady, going on vacation. let's not forget, stimulus data, every job created is a cost.

it costs $280,000. how many people in america can claim that they make that money? an enormous amount of money that is actually spent. i can tell you that people that actually receive these jobs probably do not make that. everything has a cost. everything that appears to be good appears to be paid for by someone else. i am not saying that there are not things that should be consumed by one person and paid for by other people, but government is the least effective way to deliver services. host: if you would like to read what veronique de rugy has written about job creation and stimulus and other economic matters, you can follow her at the national review online.

where else can people read your articles? guest:"region magazine," and once in awhile i blog on "big government." host: toronto, you are on the air. caller: most of our income is used to pay the interest on debts. we should have a national referendum to repeal the national reserve act. $40 billion from the u.s. treasury, i think that is what they are trying to do. guest: the national debt problem is only going to get worse. scheduled to be increased to $200 billion, which is more than

the defense budget in 2020. the debt held by the public is 8.8 trillion dollars. we have more problems coming our way on top of this. we have a massive entitlement spending crisis coming our way. if we do not start today cutting spending, we are not going to be able to get out of this crisis. host: we had a clear message a little while ago, asking about the fair tax plan. guest: i think that the fair tax is a consumption based tax, we would get all of your income and you would only pay the tax once you consume your income. so, it is a one-stop tax, which economists like.

also, it does not -- there is no distortion between fazing consumption. -the fair tax is one of the taxes that is actually a very good tax. we desperately need tax reform in this country. i would be happy to go for a flat tax, which is the same thing, but when you get your income and it fits, the fair tax has the benefit of creating no distortion between savings and consumption. yes, absolutely. host: is that the same as vat? guest: that is much more complicated. i know that there is a lot of

talk about that, and the center just put out a brilliant study by the professor at florida state university, showing that it is not the best solution for this country. while it is a machine, when it sets in what happens is that the loss in growth of gdp, it basically reduces the stream of revenue. in the end we are left with not enough revenue to address the problems we have. this is a very current issue. if people are interested they can go to check the study. it is really fantastic work. host: the last call for veronique de rugy comes from atlanta. guest: this lady is from france. she has a french mindset.

in america, we take care of our citizens the right way. the people who are holding this $1.80 trillion away from us, these people want to be futile lords. they want to run roughshod over our country. we need people that will say i will move my company to china to get cheap labor, then bring back the private -- how can you bring back the product and sell it to me if i have no job? guest: most french politicians would be saying exactly what you are saying. that they are holding, it is their own. the same way that we would be against the government or anyone

coming to take your own private savings, there is no reason why this capital, which is actually productive and will be put to productive use to hire people in the future or maintain salary, will be seized. there is a reason why these companies are doing this. there are things that congress can do by committing to stopping spending and stopping taxing and regulating companies. the american people, as much as they are doing, injecting it into the economy. it is actually, it makes me really mad to see what is happening right now. i actually moved to america

because i did not want to live in france, where there was this mentality of business rich people that are evil, out to take everything from everyone else. i came to america because it inspired productivity and investment. there was a respect for these values. it saddens me to see that the country is shifting. and it is not shifting towards solidarity. the american people are so charitable in terms of how much they give to charities. it is not right. it saddens me. host: veronique de rugy has been our guest. thank you for coming to "washington journal." by the way, if you'd like to continue this conversation, it

is being held quite vigorously on our twitter page. if you would like to follow the conversation, you can always follow the washington journal and its guests at twitter.com/c- spanwj. coming up next, we will be talking with erika loveley of " politico" on a series of articles she has written about congress as an employer. a bit murky, but i think you will find it of great interest once we get into it. first, a campaign update. >> that we are covering two debates from over the weekend. here are the latest advertisements. >> j.b. hayworth, promoting free government monday -- money, his response was that one of the

staples i learned growing up was buyer beware. >> jd. hayworth, voter beware. >> i am john mccain and i approved this message. >> tired of the negative advertisements from john mccain? so am i.. my name is mary hermley -- mayor -- mary hayworth. john mccain has sold out the people of arizona on immigration, bailouts, and tax increases. john mccain has embraced character assassination to keep his job. john mccain should be ashamed. j.d. is not perfect, but he is a principled conservative. >> joining us from the newsroom, shira toeplitz,

"politico" reporter. you think that we saw in those advertisements will be a part of the debate? >> there are two huge issues there that will be a part of the debate. they have double booked these debates over the course of one weekend. it will be two straight nights of barbs being traded and fantastic political theater. yes, to answer your question, we will see a lot of these same things. they will be talking about who is the better conservative and they will be talking about immigration. it is a very controversial issue in the state of arizona. >> these debates are back-to- back. hayworth has said that john mccain is reluctant to debate him. >> they put two debates in the course of one weekend, a shortened schedule, you might say, possibly to get them over with.

frankly, you know, this is what they have agreed to. a short, compressed weekend, it works to john mccain cost advantage. if their primary was held today, john mccain would win. if we look at current polling in the race, he has a very solid lead. the race was of -- was more competitive about one month ago. these infomercials have been rather devastating for the j.d. hayworth campaign, now he has a lead in these polls. >> the latest shows john mccain at 64%. also tonight in the debate, james deegan with 5% in the poll. what impact as he had in the race? >> pretty minimal. the rocky mountain poll that you

just cited is an out liar. many more have showed it to be more like 12 points or 15 points. i have seen a couple that are north of that, definitely and out liar. it will probably be 10 points to 15 points. the third-party candidate should not have a huge effect. let's remember that independent candidates in a lot of polling tends to be over counted. >> is the tea party having an impact in this race? >> i think they are impacting almost every race right now, especially republican primaries. arizona, you already have a very interesting and fraction republican party. you have a very conservative wing and a centrist wing. that is how both of these candidates are working, angling for the more conservative wing. >> there is another debate saturday night. we will cover tonight's debate. you can watch a live on c-

span.org at 10:00 p.m., but we will errant live data -- but we will air at on the west coast at 8:30 p.m. live. shira toeplitz, thank you very much. host: joining us now is erika loveley, a reporter at "politico." she has been writing a series of articles about congress, workplace regulations, and congress as an employer. that is what we want to talk to her about. let's start with what the office of compliance is in congress. guest: essentially its job is to oversee the congressional workplace. it is a unique office. not many people know that it exists. tucked away in a side building,

what it has been mandated to do is make sure that congressional employees have not only a safe workplace, but also that the employers are actually following workplace regulations. that there is a safe working environment. the office also does a series of safety inspections every congress, looking for things like firetraps and safety issues in different congressional offices. they flagged those to the congressional committee so that lawmakers are aware of what the potential hazards may be. is there overall mission to keep the building and employees saved. >> how long have they been in existence? guest: they formed in 1986. the law was passed in that year and what it mandated was that the office of compliance be created and added oversee the congressional workplace. until 1995, the state of the

congressional workplace was not a good one. there were several, major pieces of legislation that did not apply to congress. the family medical leave act, the americans with disabilities act, osha, basic laws that apply to your average workplace were not applied in congress because lawmakers have literally not apply them to themselves. when republicans took over they really made a push to say that we will uphold congress to the same laws that we expect the rest of the american workplace to abide by. along with that, the office of otc was created to implement that mission. guesthost: is congress abiding e laws of the rest of the american

workplaces? guest: that is a loaded question. most of all laws that they abide by, yes, they absolutely are and have made efforts to apply them themselves. but there are still some aspects of laws that congress did not apply to itself. there are a number of statutes that currently do not apply to the congressional workplace. for instance, there are statutes that say in your average workplace, records will be kept of employees that are injured, killed, exposed to some sort of toxic fume. basically a record where other people go back, when it happens and what the problem is, giving people the ability to fix those in the future. congress is not required to do that at this point. if someone is being injured in the capital, if a worker falls from a dangerous ledge and we have a machine that is not working correctly and someone is

hurt, there is no paper trail. that is kind of a major issue. another part that does not apply to congress right now, basic training and notification for employees of workplace rights and safety issues. in america you might see a poster in a break from telling employees clearly what their rights are and where they can go to get more information. in congress every office is like its own employer and it is up to the members of congress on whether they want to train their employees on this issue. if they want to tell them that the office of compliance exists. serious stuff. host: we are putting up the numbers. congress as an employer is the topic. we have a couple of more issues to discuss with erika loveley before we get your calls.

do they have different rules for a member's office or the sergeant harms office? employed directly by a member, directly or by one of its committees? guest: everyone is under the same number of protections. congress said that they get into the individual congressional offices, where there might be small rules that are not on the books. host: obvious that politics is one of them.

what did you find from the office of compliance? how did you get it? what did you find in the report guest: you have got to remember that this is an office of about two dozen employees. rarely is there any media. it is a very close and a quiet office. they put out a large report earlier in the week, publicly available on the website. what it essentially says is that there are 6300 safety violations projected to be in the current congress. a striking number, a number of

them could be absolutely deadly. catastrophic. the way that the stairwells are designed in the russell office building, but forbid if there was ever a fire or terror attack, the smoke would cause a deadly form of and most of the people in that building work upstairs. the only way to get out is by these stairwells. because of the smoke and fumes, people very likely might not get out. we do not know how many, but it could be a good number, a fatal issue. something that the office of compliance talked about year after year. still, nothing has been done about it. host: does the ooc put out a report every year? >> every two years they put out

a report that is a list of the safety violations that congress has, the second is a state of the workplace, overseeing the calls that they are getting from employees. they do put out regular information. however, these reports usually only go to the committee's that oversee them. they are usually, far as i can tell, ignored. that might be read by aides on the committee but they are usually not publicly reported. usually it does not get much attention from the general public. keeping up the capital is not a priority. host: did they speak with you when you got a hold of this report and started writing your story? guest: yes, they did. they explain what was in their report. they definitely expressed concerns. they also expressed a willingness to work with

congress. host: we are going to put up the numbers. we are talking about congress as an employer. for democrats, 202-737-0002. for republicans, 202-737-0001. for independents, 202-628-0205. before we get to the calls, i want to go through the articles that you have written based on this report. i want to start here. "the hill exempts itself from veterans lot." what is this? guest: this was contained in the office of compliance report. they often have the responsibility, legally, to tell congress what labor laws or workplace five laws that currently are not applying to themselves. this is called the veterans employee opportunity act. basically, when a veteran

applies for the job, it gives them an affirmative action type a boost in the process. creaky, because a number of veterans do look to the government for work when they get out of the surface. -- out of the service. the problem with this is that it does not currently apply to congress and the legislative branch. if i am a veteran and i want to get a job with u.s. capitol police or even as a groundskeeper, i am not getting that boost that i would otherwise be getting if i had applied for a different government job, which is pretty striking. many veterans often apply for jobs as u.s. capitol police. certainly not something that members were aware of, we could find no record of veterans complaining that they had received and fair consideration, but often because they were not even aware that they were missing this affirmative action type of boost. host: another article -- another

issue in your article, "abused staffers net nearly $1 million each year." guest: on average taxpayers pay out about $1 million in settlements to congressional employees who have been potentially sexually harassed, abuse, other was unfairly treated by their employment offices. this -- otherwise unfairly treated by their employment offices. what really bothers people about this find is that a member, for instance, can have an inappropriate relationship and inappropriate conduct with a member of their staff, the staff then turns to the office of compliance to press charges. ultimately they will go through a mediation process and sometimes it involves a monetary settlement. that comes out of the taxpayer's

pocket. it does not even come out of the office budget. the problem is that the funds to do that are basically limitless. there is a treasury fund that is bottomless and give that money out every year. some found that the settlements told as much as $4 million. other years it was slightly less. host: can you trace it back to an actual member that it happened to? or could it be anyone in the committee or employed in services? guest: here is a problem, it could beat anyone. this passage is for the anonymous and there is a reason for that. the office of compliance is very strict. they do not release the names or the members of those involved. it is not a problem in terms of transparency when the average public wants to know, what was the case about?

there is a good reason for that. many of these members, if i am a house member and i have a workplace disputes with one of my staff and it goes to the office of compliance, even if the name of the employee was not released, in a health office there might only be seven employees in my office. if i am a congressman and people know that in mediating with the office of compliance, in a workplace dispute is not hard to narrow down who those seven people are. in the long run it would cause employees not to come forward with their cases, which is not a situation that the office of compliance or congress wants to foster. host: the recent case of erik mess asa and his alleged abuse r harassment, with his former employees go to the office of

compliance? my understanding in the news articles at the time, they would go to the speaker's office or the majority leader's office. >> -- guest: interestingly enough, they would go to the office of compliance. you can go the leadership to address these problems, but when you are an employee you want to go to the office of compliance. those are the people that will help you. they have an anonymous system where you can go through dispute resolution and if that does not work, they will hire a third- party independent mediator that will sit down with you and the person you are having a dispute with to say how we can settle this. if the employee is still not satisfied at the end of that process, you have the option of either appealing to the board of directors and they will hand down a final decision, or you can file a case in court. the danger of that is that when

you filed a court case, the cases public. in the long run most people tend to do mediation because it is anonymous. most members of congress, if they are having a workplace dispute with employees, whether or not they are guilty or innocent, they will do just about anything to prevent their name from getting into the press and this is a good way to settle it. host: maintenance in the capital, besides the fire issue, are their maintenance issues when it comes to the capitol complex? guest: absolutely. we have done a series of articles about how the capital is literally crumbling at this point. there are millions and millions of dollars worth of repairs the need to be done. this summer the capital started a project refurbishing the rotunda. an ongoing project. again, hundreds of millions of dollars. more minor problems that we are

seeing, falling ceiling tiles. one year ago i capitol police officer was injured when a ceiling tile fell down and crashed into his arm. skylights that no longer keep the sun out of the building. we are seeing issues with ledges that are not up to safety codes. if you are a worker on a ledge and you fall, the building is not up to code. house speaker nancy pelosi has absolutely been pushing to get these fixed, but it really boils down to money when you are talking about fixing these problems. congress has had an epic year with spending and have been told by the white house and other leaders to basically try to keep the budget flat this year. the american people do not want to see a big spending bill. the problem with the capital is that it will take a big spending bill to keep it -- get it done.

host: how much is spent each year? guest: that is a floating figure, they usually last multiple years. we know that the catalog architect asked for a $750,000 budget -- 17% of that figure, that is only the bare necessities of what he needs to get done, the most pressing projects. release some big numbers we are talking about. host: erika loveley of "politico" is our guest. we are talking about congress as an employer. let's try some phone calls. edward, massachusets, please go ahead. are you with us? caller: can you hear me? host: go ahead. caller: good morning. my question is, is there a set number of staffers for each congressman, congresswoman, that they are allowed to hire?

does the government pay for that? or did they pay out of their own salaries? you were talking about the veteran advantage, saying that members of congress were not aware that they were not participating in that, is there a plan to begin to participate in that? are they going to bring that up? guest: thank you for your question. to address your first point, as far as the number of employees, that is up to each individual congressional office. they do receive a certain budget every year and that figure varies from office to office depending on the size of your office. your budget might be smaller than a senator's office if you are in the house. it is about the individual member, how many employees that what hired. obviously there must be aware of the budget. if they spend too much money hiring employees, they may not

have money for constituent services and reaching out to voters, etc. addressing the second question of the veterans issue, we have heard from the speaker's office, as well as from other community offices that deal with these kinds of issues. they are potentially considering looking at ways to apply this to congress and the legislative branch so that veterans get the affirmative- action boost. however, there are technical issues in the language that need to be worked out. there are certainly been a number of congress members that represent veterans, have a major base in their backyard that is based on this issue. they were basically not aware, as far as i can tell, of the issue, but it did concern them.

i do not think you will see this issue before the august recess bill, but maybe when congress gets back this might be something that they might address. host: it people are interested in reading about the office of compliance the legislative report, where would you recommend that they go? guest: it is right there, a great report. very colorful. you cannot miss it. host: politico.com, if you want to read the series of articles from erika loveley. just type in her name and you will get all of the articles that she has written. florida, democratic line. good morning. caller: friends in jackson said that we should have a civilian legislature that only comes in at a limited amount of time. certainly they envisioned a $4 billion budget for congress.

staffers, such as were participating in the financial services reform discussion that left government, they came back making millions from the banks and financial services, lobbying their own staff friends and past legislators. that is not right. host: erika loveley, any response from that -- for that caller? guest: certainly your response is similar to that of many americans. staffers have this connection to other staffers that leave the hill, turning around to come back and lobby. certainly that is an issue. it affects many people. certainly steps have been in place to curb that. for instance, barney frank recently had a very prominent stafford leave his banking committee right after a major piece of legislation had been

written, essentially by that employee. he left and went to case to read and decided that he would turn around and -- k street and decided that he would turn around and lobby his old buddies office. barney frank said no and band that employee. we are beginning to see reaction on the other end. .

[captions performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] guest: each congressional office gets a different amount of money to run their offices. as far as how many members of staff neaps pelosi has, she is the speaker of the house. she has a bigger staff than most members do. it takes a lot of work to be the speaker of the house. but on the other point you're getting at, you know, it's really up to her and her office to regulate how they spend the money and the rules are once your budget is spent, it's spent. so there is that cap there. i mean other than that, you

know, i tonight think there's much the voters can do but call and express your opinion. host: just to make it clear, 30,000 staff on capitol hill, not just for the members' offices. guest: no, that's including the capitol police, architect of the capitol, maintenance staff, kitchen staff, owl congressional employees. that's a wide span of people. host: a typical member of congress, you used the figure seven earlier, as the number of employees in that member's office, is that pretty much an average? guest: that's on the smaller side i would say. that would be for a younger house member probably would have about seven. i mean but there are some senators who have as many as 25, 30 staff. and these are usually people who also say chair a committee. they'll have kind of staff members that work for both the personal office and the committee as well. but they're still considered you know, paid by both the committee's budget and the member's budget and the

personal office. so you can get quite large staffs that way. host: dave in newton, mass. go ahead. caller: good morning. i have a question for your terrific and talented guest. and i was just wondering, now, are the staffers fall under the feca, federal employee compensation act, are they entitled to if they're injured doing some -- performing their functions, are they afforded all the department of labor protections? guest: there certainly are some protections, that they are covered under. what my article looked at is mostly what they're not given. certainly if you're injured on capitol hill, as i understand it, there is certainly a way

that you address the injury, get workman's comp, etc. but i mean as far as you know, letting other people know about your injury, getting a record kept of that, being informed that the office of compliance exists, where you can go and potentially address an issue like this, that's what employees are not getting, and that's a pretty good big knowledge base they're missing out on. host: erika lovely with the "politico." thank you for being our guest on the wurem. about an hour left on the "washington journal." up next we talk with the assistant seven health and husme services, dr. howard koh, we'll talk about the national hiv/aids strategy.

>> they're the towering figures and they're all different. they have their different talents, they have their different dangers. >> this weekend robert service on his trilogy of books on arena leaders, lenin, stalin and most recently, leon trotsky. learn about their roles in developing their form of communism. on c-span's "q & a."

host: dr. howard koh is on your screen, he is the assistant secretary of health and human services and he's here to talk about the national hiv/aids strategy announced by the president and the white house. dr. koh, how many people in america have aids? >> we have over one million people in this country infected and some 56,000 people infected every year. that's one person infected every 923456 had 23456 1/2 minutes. that's too much. host: about 1.1 million people have aids. >> h.i.v. guest: h.i.v. host: in the states. guest: right. host: how do you define h.i.v. and aids? guest: h.i.v. means you're infected and you have the virus. aids means you have various accompanying illnesses or aids-defining illness of the

1.1 million h.i.v. up effected people about 400,000 have aids. host: how -- is h.i.v. a death sentence still? guest: absolutely not. the good news, peter, is we've made so much progress recipe treatment and so many people are living healthy, productive lives who are h.i.v. above or who have aids. that's the good news. the challenge is we've lost the sense of urgensy about h.i.v. and aids and that's why the president unveiled the strategy after consulting with people in the community and experts across the country about the current status of the epidemic. host: so have we lost the urgency? why? guest: we can think about many possible reasons. we've made a lot of progress in treatment, that's good news. we have many other health threats on the horizon, that's always a challenge. we have the next generation coming up who didn't feel that sense of urgency when the virus was first described some 30 years ago. so this strategy revitalizes

national commitment to combating h.i.v. and aids, we want a national vision where h.i.v. is rare and everybody is getting care. host: when it comes to getting h.i.v., is it on the rise? guest: the number of people being infected every year is staying about the same. host: about 56,000. guest: that's right, about for the last decade or so. that means prevention works and in fact there are estimates some 350,000 case investigate been prevented because of the prevention education efforts so far. but we need to do much more, peter. that's why this strategy was unveiled. host: we'll get to the strategy in just a minute. i want to get through the facts here. we're going to put the numbers on the screen. we only have a short time with dr. howard koh. we'll go ahead and put the numbers up if you want to dial in we're talking about the national hiv/aids strategy. what about the drugs to combat aids and h.i.v.?

have they been developed to a point where people think well, if i get it, then i'll just take a pill? guest: the gooze good news again is over the last years some 20 new drugs have been discovered and implemented and used by people for caring for this disease and treating this disease. that's the good news. it's still a devastating condition for many people, and there are many, many dimensions to this illness beyond the disease itself. so we've made a lot of progress but we have to do much more. host: how much is the federal government currently spending on h.i.v. prevention and medication, etc.? guest: well, we for this report put an assessment on all the resources that have been applied to this epidemic and some $19 billion have been put forward every year across the country for prevention, for education, for research, for

treatments. that's not enough, but it's still a considerable commitment to date. and part of the strategy is to make sure that we're aligning those resources the best we possibly can so key can reduce suffering for the future. host: when it comes to the federal strategy how are those resources being aligned? guest: we have parts of it dedicated to research, parts dedicated to appropriation, there are geographic distribution formulas for the country, and so what the strategy does is gives us an opportunity to assess where we are, see if we can do this better, dedicate the resources to where people are really in need and make sure that we can make a very strong impact for the future. host: and you talked about geographic distribution of funds and resources. where? guest: well, the -- host: the epidemic areas. guest: the epidemic is hitting us in the northeast, in the south, in the virgin islands, and there are many resources that are going to those areas, but there's an opportunity to assess if we are doing it in

the best possible way. host: what else is in the national aids strategy? guest: well, there are several goals. one is to decrease new infections by 5% over the next five years. host: by what means? guest: through more emphasis on awareness like this program, on testing, unfortunately some 20% of people who are infected don't know their h.i.v. status. host: is that 20% of the 56,000 who get infected every year? guest: that's right. we need to have a situation where everybody knows what their h.i.v. status is. that's message number one. everyone should know their status. and secondly we need to make sure that people are getting appropriate care and get into care quickly and efficiently and effectively. so this is where the health reform affordable care act actually has a big impact because the new pre-existing condition insurance plan will help people with aids. host: has that taken effect yet

or is it off in the future? guest: starting right now i had risk pools and expansion will happen in 2014. we have new programs starting now and this is a bridge to 20 14. host: if somebody is infected today, can't afford drug therapy or can't afford hospitalization or a doctor, and gets infected with h.i.v., what happens? what is the federal government saying -- offering to that person? guest: we have resources in all parts of the country so that's the good news and we have tremendously dedicated officials and community leaders who help people who are newly infected get into care. and we also have a very vibrant ryan white care act that really helps people who are uninsured and underinsured and are of low income. the question now is can we do this even better, align those resources even better in the future. that's part of the strategy. host: dr. koh, what else do you

want to tell us about the strategy you think we should know? guest: this is a challenge not for people who are infected but indeed for the whole country. i like to say you don't have to be infected to be affected by this epidemic. we lost too many people to this virus, and this is not opportunity now to rally the country and realign our resources and reaffirm our commitment to confronting this challenge head on. host: dr. howard koh is the assistant secretary of health of human services. what is your area of responsibility as assistant secretary? guest: i have a broad array of responsibilities, advising the secretary, overseeing a dozen offices that have to do with disease prevention and health promotion and in general helping mobilize and intergreat many of the efforts across the country to make the country healthier. host: he is a graduate of yale, the yale university school of medicine and trained at the boston city hospital and at mass gen.

his brother just -- his brother is harold koh, the dean of the yale law school. just a little bit of information. let's take some calls. we're talking about the national hiv/aids strategy. our first call comes from nicklaus in milwaukee. go ahead, nicklaus. caller: thank you and thank you for c-span and the informative guest. i was taught by the pope and the good nuns and priests that chastity can prevent the various diseases. this seems to be a lack in the obama administration of stressing chastity and abstinence and they talk about safe sex. in other words, they want to give condoms, birth control pills and so on which i think is a very, very evil, and i hope they change on this. also, the media we have so much

sex-oriented programs and we're telling these young people to have sex and we should stop that. host: condoms, abstention. are those parts of your strategy? guest: absolutely. in general, people need education so they can make informed choices to help themselves and protect themselves and stay as healthy as possible. and those are choices people have to make for themselves. so whether it's abstinence and chastity or condoms or other protective services, these are choices people need to make for themselves after they hear about the threat that this epidemic still is in this country. host: so abstinence is not part of the obama administration's strategy. is that correct? guest: abstinence is a foundation obviously especially for young kids.

host: less 23iss than the bush administration put on it? guest: in the current situation we have an array of approaches for kids whether it's abstinence or education or protection as people get more sexually active. there's an array of options and people have to choose those options based on their own values. host: next call for dr. koh comes from orlando. norm, you're on the air. please go ahead, democrats line. caller: hello. host: norm, go ahead. caller: yes. the question i have for dr. koh is how can you talk about the -- controlling the spread of hiv/aids when many of the local municipalities, state governments are cutting the -- cutting health programs at the local health departments area. and also, has there been -- why

has there not been -- this -- a public health mobilization over the past 10 years or 15 or 20 years in this particular disease? can you show any area where there has been a reduction of the spread of this disease based on the policies they have in place today? host: thank you. dr. koh? guest: thank you for your commitment to local public health. public health is local and we need everybody in not every community to be involved in public health whether it's h.i.v. or any other threat. if you want to stress the positive, we have fewer aids deaths now than 15 years ago, mostly because of these great successes in terms of new medications. the numbers of deaths now have dropped to about 15,000 a year and as we already talked about, peter, we have about 56,000 new

infections a year, that number has stayed stable over the last decade or so. but no one is satisfied with that. we want to get those numbers down so that h.i.v. is rare. that's what our goal is. host: there has been talk about a vaccine for aids or for h.i.v. is that promising or is this way off in the future? guest: there was a trial that was based in thailand announced relatively recently that represents an advance but it's still not for public use yet. so we have outstanding researchers at n.i.h. who continue to work on this very important topic and we look forward to more promising news in the future. host: are the infection rates in the u.s. less than other areas of the world? guest: it's interesting, this weekend starts the international aids meeting in vienna. we're going to be meeting colleagues from around the world. this is a global pandemic. there are places around the world that are very severely hit. so we join many colleagues

around the world who are facing this as one global planet. host: dr. koh, when you say the $19 billion a year is spent on h.i.v. prevention and treatment, etc., is that just in the states or worldwide? guest: that's in the state states host: next call, robbie, republican, you're on did with dr. howard koh. i'm sorry. where the heck am i? there i am. robbie, please go ahead. los angeles. caller: dr. koh, thank you for being on c-span. i'm a general manager at a manufacturing plant. what may we do as employers to educate our employees about h.i.v. and aids? guest: thank you so much for asking that question. i think the more employers talk about wellness and prevention and health for their employees, the better off we're going to be as a country. there are many aspects of that in the health reform law in fact. so for this particular area, if

we talk about testing and knowing your h.i.v. status and the importance of prevention and importance of wellness for the workplace, those are really very, very important themes. host: johnston city, illinois. ashley. good morning to you. caller: good morning. good morning. i feel like i'm the only 21-year-old calling your panel today, but my point is i -- my first point is, i think we need to give america the care. they need to understand the fact that h.i.v. and aids is a viral infection, it is permanent. they need to see that. abstinence is forming your parents more of what they're contracting as this disease progresses. they need to be informed of it i think. i don't think a vaccine -- i think a vaccine would be a wonderful help but it's like an easy button for americans to push and the easiest way is just to know, to be

knowledgeable of what this is. guest: i can sense the urgency in your voice and i thank you for your passion. we need to list the -- lift the stigma ma around this area. we're in a time people don't often mention h.i.v. or aids, we don't talk about protection or education and for us to really make an impact you have to have the passion you displayed in your question and talk about education and lift the stigma so people infected can get treatment as early as possible. those are all very, very important themes and all part of the strategy. host: next call is cedar falls, iowa. joan, a democrat. caller: i've been trying for months to get on. this is a topic that really i have to understand is very, very -- it's hurting young people and older people and for the next generation to think

that we have a vaccine, sure we might have a vaccine that will cure somebody or help somebody, but the thing that is people rely on that, oh, well we've always got that vaccine. just like the same thing of tobacco. have we always got the thing to cure people from tobacco? no. people have to decide that they desire not to do this. host: joan, do you ever -- is there h.i.v. and aids talked about in cedar falls, iowa? caller: there is. there is somewhat. but of course we can't control it because i don't think that anyone -- any group of people decided that they was going to take it. it's a parental thing. it's a thing that children have to be taught from their parents

. host: thanks, joan. guest: again i really appreciate joan's passion and dedication. she's is absolutely right. we can't wait for the vaccine here. we know what to do with respect to prevention right now, and the real message from joan's question is that our good health is a gift, it's something that's very, very precious so we need to protect it every day. and with respect to h.i.v. that protection means education and lifting the stigma and talking about these issues with your neighbors and with your community and really joining in this national strategy that was unveiled by the president several days ago. host: i want to go back to the complacency issue. a couple callers have hypotheticaled around that, okay, well, so what, i'll take a pill. all right. are there studies about the long-term effects of h.i.v. medication? has it been around enough so we can study the long-term effects? guest: we know more about the long-term effects than ever before. people are growing older with

h.i.v. that's the good news but they're getting now other health problems as we all do as we get older. host: that are related to the h.i.v. or not? guest: sometimes related to the h.i.v., sometimes related to the medications for the h.i.v. so this is adding to the complexity of aids care in this country. and this is why we really need the broadest approach for aids moving forward. it involves housing and education and good insurance coverage as well as medications especially attention to prevention. host: we got this tweet from parasite simm. dr. koh, annual drug cost to u.s. patients of h.i.v. cocktails are greater than $15,000. gates foundation subsidies are around the world. why not here? guest: we would love to partner with foundations and nonprofit organizations and businesses and in fact when the announcement was made on tuesday, there were a number of business leaders who stood up and said we want to help

contribute to this issue and we want to make a difference. that was fantastic. we want public-private partnerships and everybody getting involved. we'd love to explore that. host: wynell in harlem. how are you? caller: good morning. how are you? dr. koh, how are you? i served on the acp up here in harlem -- host: you serve on the what? caller: the acpg, aids chronicle trial group. host: okay. caller: i'm concerned about -- you're not really talking about the policy, what you call, prevents what i'm actually waiting to hear about, but i'm concerned about something that may be coming out which is use ing cervada before you have sex. now, do you have any insight on that? i heard that might be coming

out by the end of the year. host: just is send. use what one more time? caller: it's an h.i.v. medication. host: what's it called host: caller: travada. host: are you infected with hiv/aids right now? caller: yes. host: how long have you had it? caller: since 1993. host: how is your health? caller: great. unfortunately my friends up here are not. host: but your health is great. you're part of a clinical trial, a federally sponsored clinical treatment trial? caller: right. what we do is review every medication before it comes out. and also we also review medications for our clinical trial. host: and are you currently taking meld education? caller: yeah, of course. host: do you switch medications as you review them? caller: sometimes if i like the idea, the concept. when i review it, i look at

like side effects, i look at you know, how fast does it drop the viral load, i look at all these issues with the medication and if i see something that i like, if i see something like -- we just got a drug approved which is one of the -- it's an inhibitor, an enzyme outside the nucleus -- host: we're going to run out of time. if you would address his specific terms but also for viewers just tuning in review the president's new national hiv/aids strategy for hem. guest: first i want to thank wynell. we are so appreciative when people who are infected get involved in research and become community leaders on this issue. we want to thank him. the specific question he was asking about is what is called

preexposure prophylaxis, it's an area of intense research. to wrap up, we're excited about the relationship that the president has shown after consulting with the community because we have a chance now to really make a difference in this epidemic that's been in this country for too long. we've lost too many people and have some major initiatives we can achieve by working together. host: are you familiar with the project that he was talking about up in harlem, this particular trial? guest: there are many trials on this topic of so called pre-exposure prophylaxis. that's an area of interest, yes. host: time for one more call. joyce in killingworth, connecticut. go ahead, joyce. caller: good morning, dr. koh. i'd like to ask you, with freedom of travel, the various cultural differences especially in countries like uganda, i've worked with people there, how can we ever get a handle on

aids and h.i.v.? guest: well, we view actually a global partnerships and freedom of travel as an opportunity, and again this international aids meeting is convening in austria in vienna this weekend and we're very excited about this because it brings some 25,000 people together who are scientists and advocates and patients and leaders in every community around the world to say we have a global challenge and we can do something together here. i think the world will be thrilled to see the united states being explicit about this new strategy and in fact in 201, two years from now we're hosting the international meeting in washington, d.c. we're very excited about that. host: do travel restrictions have to be changed by law? doesn't the u.s. restrict people with h.i.v. or aids? guest: that restriction was lifted in january of this year. host: across the board permanently? guest: permanently for this country. that's helped enable the international conference to be

held in d.c. in two years. we're excited about that. host: would you say that president obama's aids strategy is -- how different from the bush administration's aids strategy? guest: the bush administration did an outstanding job starting this overseas effort, the president's emergency plan for aids research, pepfar. we thank the bush administration for launching that. we still have a domestic challenge here with 1.1 million people infected. that's where president obama's vatty is focusing with this announcement of this strategy earlier this week. we hope the two together will make a difference for our country and around the world. host: your boss is going to be speaking about the capping of the gulf oil well. guest: good news. host: he's still not out there but we'll take a couple more calls. alicia, columbia, maryland. caller: good morning, gentlemen. let me say our love and blessings to the troops.

doctor, i don't know your last name host: host: dr. koh. please go ahead, alicia. caller: could you kindly comment on how much osha has a hand on regulating and educating people who work with us like the dentists and the gynecologists? some of them will just come at you with the dirty hands with no gloves and you have to say please, wear gloves. host: all right. thank you so much for your comments. doctor? guest: education of providers whether it's doctors or dentists, nurses or others, is a very critical part of the strategy. it's also very important with respect to prevention for providers. so we have a lot of emphasis on preventing needle sticks, some make sure that health professionals don't get h.i.v. through their practice of caring for others. so their -- there are roles for

community members and providers, and we want us all working together on these issues. host: wanda in new hope, pennsylvania, republican line, you're on with dr. howard koh, assistant secretary of health and human services. caller: this is not directly related but i'm wondering why do we have to advertise sex, i'm talking about the viagra and watermelon ads that do not keep sex at the proper level. host: any response? guest: i'm hoping in light of the strategy we can talk as much about prevention and h.i.v. being a rare illness as about having ads like that because we want a society where h.i.v. infections are rare and the public health messages have to go forward and that's what the strategy is all about. host: for somebody just tuning in how does the health care legislation passed in march

affect the national hiv/aids strategy? guest: well, for people who have aids and who have not had insurance coverage over the last six months, they're now eligible to get coverage through the so-called pre-existing condition insurance plan. that's starting up right now across the country. that's good news for lots of people. and that's a plan that's a bridge to 2014 when medicaid gets expanded so that will give also more coverage to people who are uninsured or underinsured. host: in castleburg, florida. independent line. you're on with dr. howard koh. please go ahead. caller: good morning, doctor. i'm calling in regards, i wanted to ask a question, make a comment first and ask a quick question. i have a few relatives that are infected -- two have aids and passed away in the past four years, and then one of them who is very close relative, i don't want to say, has h.i.v. right

now. and another -- with the two of my relatives they didn't have insurance and they didn't get the quality, i guess the care, i guess the medicine that they need and when they did, it made them very sick. and the one that has insurance, he's getting pretty good care. and they're african-americans. i'm wondering because i worked as a nurse in the health care field, i notice that the statistics always says african-americans has the highest, african-americans women have the highest rate with the aids and h.i.v. and then other races is low. but in the health care, i noticed from my -- from what i've seen that it's just about even and i'm thinking because the other race, maybe they have the quality health care that maybe it wasn't you know, in the told,, you know.

host: is that your question? caller: yes. my question and my comment. thank you. host: we'll have him break it down. an interesting question. guest: you touched on critical themes. first of all you're absolutely right. there are some populations that have a disproportionate burden. african-americans have higher rates of infection than the rest of the population and so we need to make sure that people are supported and get the resources they need. with respect to care, i should stress the community health centers often deliver outstanding care for people in need. many clients are not insured right now. so we have a lot of resources we can bring to bear but now the strategy gives us an opportunity to do it even better in the future. host: how does the national eight aids strategy developed by the president and the h.h.s. utilize those public health services that are local and you know, -- guest: we now have 150 days to

bring all the leaders throughout government, all the agencies that are running the separate programs rand bring them together as one and say how can we do this better, more efficiently realign our resources and meet the needs? so that's exactly a question we'll be tackling through the rest of this calendar year. and we're hoping that with the energy the president has given us and the secretary that we're going to have a more efficient strategy moving forward. host: break down men, women, infection rates. how many men of this 1.1, the figure we'll use, 1.1 million, men and women. guest: men make up about 3/4 of those infected. more men than women. host: of those, of the 1.1 million again, gay/straight. guest: men who have sex with men have a much higher rate of infection, much higher risks. that's a high-risk population. host: of that 1.1 million is that 3/4 gay?

guest: we say about half of new infections come from men who have sex with men. host: half. what about race? guest: people of color have a higher risk than others, so african-american communities are harder hit, latino communities are harder hit. and these are part of the health disparities we need to narrow with the health strategy. host: okay. all right. long island, marie, republican. caller: yes. good morning, dr. koh. i have worked in the h.i.v. industry in the prevention side of things overseas and also in the state of new york. and so my views are from sort of an insider. my question and i'm not sure if you can answer it at this point but i want to put it out there, is that when i first started working overseas as an international development and health professional, i noticed that there were lots of funding and lots of jobs overseas for

the h.i.v. industry. coming back to the u.s. and back to my state of new york i've noticed that there's less prevention work, prevention type jobs specifically in education. i have been an educator, i've educated in rural areas and the mountaintops of haiti. coming back to the u.s., there's less emphasis on education that i've noticed since 2005 and i understand the c.d.c. policies as far as focusing whatever limited moneys there are towards the curative end of things but being that this national strategy hopefully is going to address more of the prevention, education hopefully that we need in order to educate our next generation, the kids growing up who don't see the urgency and h.i.v., i'm wondering if you see a potential here for more job creation in the prevention

education side of things. host: first guest: first of all thank you for your dedication before we love hearing from people like you who are so dedicated to education and community and prevention. your global perspective helps us here because all countries are trying an array of strategies. if your conclusion is we need more prevention, that helps us in this country. prevention is so critical because our good health is a gift, we just cannot take it for granted. and as we now stressed several times here, a new person is being infected every 9 1/2 minutes. that's just intolerable. we can do much better than that as a country. prevention is the key. thank you for your commitment to that. host: last call for dr. koh, gulfport, mississippi, louise. caller: hello. if someone has aids and is diagnosed early and given the drugs, what -- how much longer would their life be expected to extend, and would they -- could they communicate it during that time? host: what do you mean could

they communicate? caller: could they continue to spread it during their extra 15 or 20 years? host: thank you, ma'am. guest: we're so gratified that scientific research has brought this country to a new phase where people with h.i.v. can live for decades. and we've had some callers who are examples of that and we're thrilled to have that. but we can't let down our guard, can't be complacence and people who are infected can continue to spread the virus, unfortunately. host: even though it's undetectable? guest: viral lotes loads can go up and down and we need to keep stressing prevention not only for those who are infected but those at risk for infection. host: dr. howard koh, assistant secretary of health and human services. we've been talking about the national hiv/aids strategy. we have 20 minutes left, we'll do some open phones, a lot of public policy topics, public policy, whatever you want to talk about. we'll come back in just a minute and do that.

and we're also waiting for the president to come out to the rose garden and before he's off to maine and he's making a statement on the capping -- the temporary capping of the oil well down in the gulf of mexico. we'll be right back. >> we have added a new feature, bill search. search for any congressional bill, learn its status and watch video of the debate from the house and senate floors. click the congress tab and you'll see bill search right on the page. make your search as general or specific as you like. it's ontline and free. the c-span video library, it's wash, your way. >> this weekend on "book tv." the harlem book fare, panels on religion, human rights and african-american history. live all day saturday starting

at 11:00 a.m. eastern. also this weekend, the author ayn rand with former associates and biographer barbara hiller. and clumb university allen brippingly on his book on henry luce and the reinvention of the magazine industry. a weekend filled with nonfix books on c-span. for the complete schedule, go to booktv.org. host: we're waiting for the president to come out and talk about the capping of the oil well, then he and his family are off for a summer weekend in mape. looks like the president only gets a weekend in the summer. but open phones right now. a lot of public policy. you can send a tweet, it's

twitter.com, c-spanwj and also send us an email at journal@ cspan.org. a little bit of horn blowing here because this weekend on book tv is live coverage of the harlem book fair all day on saturday. it will run from about 11:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. but i want to show enthusiasm article that was in "roll call," book tv has won an award for its work, the harlem book fair is honoring "book tv" with the phyllis wheatley award tomorrow, 11:00 a.m. if you're in the harlem, new york city area, we'll have a booth up there, book tv will so stop by and say hi. love to see you. this is from the reliable source this morning in "the washington post," dana perino is headed to george washington

university, former press secretary for george bush and she'll be teaching a class in political communication this fall. and "new york times," argentina approves gay marriage in a first for the region. the argentina senate narrowly approved a law early thursday authorizing same-sex marriages making argentina the first country in latin america to allow gay couples to wednesday after 15 hours of debate the senate voted 5-25 in favor of the measure. that's in "the new york times" this morning. this is two articles, one a little bit of a political article, and this is about john edwards, andrew young a former aide to john edwards who wrote a book about his affair and the lengths he went to hide his miss stress said his account would be made into a movie, mr. young who wrote "the politician" said he reached a deal with the writer and producer aaron sorkin who wrote

the play "a few good men" and the television series "the west wing." time to hear your voices. ruth in new york city. good morning. caller: hello. host: hi. caller: peter, you are my favorite host. i've been watching since brian was a host. host: i think you say that to all the hosts. caller: no, i don't this is my first time calling. anyway, i have had h.i.v. since 1985, i've taken no meds and i'm -- the doctor would have -- they just put out a thing about people having neutralizing antibodies, surviving for 20, 25 years. host: right. caller: when i got this many years ago, i took up, i quit working at a hospital and went to get a ph.d. and i just refused, watching all my friends dropping dead on single drugs, i didn't take any

drugs. then by the time this viral load test came out, they put me on drugs briefly and when i went off them, i got a little bit better. my point is that i am here 25 years later, the drugs i tried, they didn't work, and all of my doctors said you don't need any more medicine. i am one of the amazing patients that can ward off all the viruses. i've been laughed at for 25 years by every doctor and now "the wall street journal" just came out describing patients like me. host: when is the last time you took an h.i.v. preventive drug? caller: from 1997 when i got my ph.d. to 1999. host: you took them from 9 7 to 99. caller: yes. but i was infected in 1985. 1983 to 1985. but the point is i changed my behavior completely and i had no new infection since after

85. host: do you ever have your blood drawn? caller: all the time. they just keep telling me you're going to die, you're dough going to die, you're going to die. now all of a sudden i read there are some people immune to this after 20 years that they have neutralizing antibodies. i'm so sorry that i missed the show, but -- host: you can watch it ontline. caller: my only complaint is that you're my favorite host and i couldn't believe you don't know that obama changed this? and none of this stuff has been on the media. the immigration rules. you didn't know he did that in january? did if you didn't know, who would know? host: i knew that. caller: you knew. okay. just for the people that get diagnosed and want to kill themselves, my mother said when she was little and had pneumonia, everyone said it was a death sentence. so when i got this she said nonsense. host: ruth, what do you do for

a living? caller: i got my ph.d. and with it since they told me i was going to definitely 100% die in three years, i turned down marrying the nicest, richest guy on earth. to get my ph.d. and h.i.v., and basically i've been freaking out every expert in the field and i live on the upper east side of manhattan. and now you know, i watch the vaccine trials fail, i did meet a vaccine researcher from washington and ruined his vacation and he kept looking at me going 18 years and no viral load. there is a test out there, the viral load test. so i only have the antibodies. he said this is like that patient number 45 in "the wall street journal" two days ago. host: right. caller: that has 90%, they've been checking out 25 million of his cells to find 12. i haven't -- i took the drugs but i have just had my stomach removed from stress but my

point is that this is just like waterboarding. this has been torture. i've been waiting since 1987 when they did finally test me, they told me you are definitely going to die. host: we have lots of callers on hole. it was a pleasure to talk to you. thank you for calling in. we appreciate it. wait 3030 days and do it again. ogden, marks, you're on the "washington journal." caller: thank you for taking my call. i want to change the subject and talk about jobs. i remember when bush was president and he was losing a lot of jobs and all i heard from that side is that the president doesn't create jobs. i don't know if anybody remembers hearing that. he can provide stimulus and he can get packages to try and boost jobs, but he doesn't provide jobs. private industry provides jobs. the president can't make private industry make jobs.

he can give them tax breaks and incentives but can't make them provide jobs. i'm real sick of everybody saying obama's at fault and even he's taken responsibility for not creating jobs which he can't do. this is capitalism. this isn't communism you can't tell them you hire peep. so please, either the president can or he can't create jobs. host: and you're looking at a live picture of the rose garden or outside the oval office there. the president is due to come out and talk about the capping of the well in the gulf of mexico. and so that's why you see that picture there and of course we'll bring it to you live as soon as he does. by the way, today over at the heritage foundation the eagle forum, phyllis schlafly's organization is sponsoring an all-day forum, we bring it live on c-span 3. a lot of authors talking this afternoon and those will be

rebroadcast at some point on "book tv" as well. this is from the "washington times," franken senate win, tim polenty has jumped into a growing controversy by saying a conservative internet interest group thay may have found evidence that a group. gave a boost to a study released by minnesota majority that purpose ports to have found more than 1,000 felons voted illegally in the fiercely contested election. mr. franken won officially by 3 12 votes. sterling, virginia, gary on the republican line. what's on your mind? caller: thank you for taking my call. it's an honor and a privilege to be on your show. i'd like to talk about the unconstitutional and socialist premises of the hyde amendment whereby we're forced to pay for the children of these unwed

mothers. the last time i worked at a house for an unwed mother she had five boys. all four of them in school were special needs. the fifth grader who is supposed to be a sixth grader was arrested for shoplifting. because of that a store clerk, a store manager, a policeman, a dispatcher, a blotter keeper, a social worker, a bliff, a court strenoggraffer, a prosecuting torpe, a judge, the child gets an attorney, if this child gets sent to reform school it's going to cost us $40,000 a year. host: all right. robert. new york city. democrats line. caller: c-span, thank you so much, my first time calling. host: you're welcome. caller: i'm also h.i.v. positive, and because of the bailout of the insurance company and the pharmaceuticals, and the medicare doughnut hole, i haven't been able to take my medicine since january because

they want $1 ,800 and i make too much for the one program but not enough to get in the other program. host: wait, wait, you got to explain that a little bit. what does that have to do with the 3w5eu8out, do you have insurance -- caller: i have medicare. and the medicaid i make too much for. host: medicare doesn't cover this? doesn't cover h.i.v. drugs? caller: it's the supplemental that medicare you know, the -- the supplemental insurance that we get. the doughnut hole. i can't afford. i can't afford it. there is no program. i've called my state senator, my -- christine gilbrand and i can't afford the medicine. i know several people who don't go into programs who are not taking the medicine. here in the united states --

host: robert, you're finding yourself in a little toe nut hole. as dr. koh explained isn't the pre-existing condition been lifted at this point? he said it was happening now. caller: well, you know, that was kind of vague. i just signed in on that one. because when i talked to my senator's office, they told me that's 2014. host: okay. all right. it did -- you're right. i should have followed up and gotten a date certain from him. so you haven't taken -- taken drugs since january. caller: if i had -- for some reason or another being h.i.v., i could get into something. host: i'm sorry he's gone. you haven't taken your drugs since january. how is your health? caller: well, i finally went to the doctor's, because it blew me away that here in the united states i can't get some form of

assistance to get my medicine. and i finally went and he said i'm doing surprisingly well for somebody who hasn't taken his medicines for six months. but the fact -- what happens is you build a resistance to these drugs and by not taking 24e78 it's like an antibiotic. if you take a medicine and then you stop it all of a sudden the virus becomes like immune to that medicine. so the four medicines i was taking because of this, they no longer work for me. there's only like four or five classes of medicines that we can take. host: we'll leave it there, robert. next call is from joe in portland, maine, republican line. hi, joe. caller: good morning. i should say i'm a pro-obama republican. i'm not too thrilled with my party at the moment. i should say on the question of oil and the gulf, unfortunately

i'm a cigarette smoker and the government has put on tremendous taxes to discourage tobacco addiction and obama, the president agrees we have an oil addiction but no one is even willing to discuss a gasoline tax. and although b.p. is clearly the most directly responsible for the problems in the gulf, everyone agrees that waste of fuel and oil addiction -- host: would you be willing to pay a higher gasoline tax? caller: i think it's only fair to admit i don't drive. host: oh, i see. caller: i would be willing. i have driven in my life, and look, the money is going to come from somewhere. what it sounds like is a cap in trade, they're going to indirectly do this by taxing corporations, utilities who will pass them along. there is no free lunch here. i think that any society that

permitted vehicles like hummers and some of these s.u.v.'s and things just can't claim to be serious about the environment. and if they're not willing to even think about a gas tax, then you're not serious about the environment, pollution and global warming and all these things. it should at least be sayable. host: miami, george, independent line. caller: hello. host: gornle, turn down the volume on your tv. listen through your phone. go ahead with your comment, please. caller: yes. delete, delete, delete, delete. host: my god. that's the third time today that young man has gotten in. he's a real charmer, isn't he? love to meet his mother. new haven, connecticut, mark, democrat. you're on the air. caller: thanks for taking my call. i have one kind of general continue. i think over the last 1/2 years since the economy took a

significant hit, a lot of american families have kind of decreased their level of spending and increased their savings rates. but i think in that same time i haven't really heard from the government or the president why the government kind of can't do the same. i think -- i just -- no one has really articulated why government agencies can't find of just stop spending or why they necessarily need inflation adjusted increases in their annual budgets. host: gary, orange, virginia. this is open phones on the "washington journal." what's on your mind, public policywise? caller: i'm calling about the unemployment stimulus. host: yes, sir. caller: that was voted down by the republicans. i permanently have been unemployed now for over a year and was just informed that after one time getting unemployment that i was not

entitled to an extension. the republicans in virginia has made no bonesbout it they want to do away with unemployment, period. now, i feel like that they should be some things in place to get some stimulus for that. can you comment on it n. host: i'm not going to comment, but i think it's important to hear your views and it's important to hear all the views of the callers who call in. decatur, illinois, jean, you're on the "washington journal." got a few minutes left in this morning -- caller: i'll try to be quick. host: take your time. caller: i listened to the gentleman who called in about the illegitimate babies being born. i worked in the field for many years in mental health and drugs, at a large clinic, and to me the promiscuity and the illegitimate pregnancies and these children that are born of