and obviously he has a friend as it were in the treasury in the chief secretary who also has a large rural scottish constituency. so i know the issue will be looked at seriously. and discussions will be and had when we have something to say, we'll come back and talk about it. >> in the week of the nhs white paper will the prime minister resist calls from wherever they come to cut the budget? >> my right honorable friend makes a good point. he yes, we have to take difficult decisions but when you look at the nhs we know there are expensive drugs coming down the tracks and expensive treatments and aging people. there are even small real term increases will be a heroic thing to achieve and i think the party opposite has completely lost touch and lost its senses to think somehow you can cut the nhs. >> lindsey roy. >> thank you, mr. speaker. as a former head teacher i endorse a commitment given by

the prime minister to improve discipline in schools and in education who are widely. so can i ask the prime minister as a head of government what special measures he plans with his education secretary who's field to do his homework properly in the last few weeks. >> i think in the week of the mandleson memoirs to get a lecture on ill discipline -- i mean, we used to say -- you know, we used to say the government that they formed -- we used to say it was dysfunctional that they were all at a each other's throats. we were wrong. it was much, much worse than that. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the prime minister will be aware that former anthony malone has languished in an afghan jail in two years and is still being held in lieu of an outstanding debt. given his punishment is in

breach of international law will he secure mr. malone's release? >> i think he's absolutely right to raise this case. and it is a worrying case and i can assure him that his family and friends that the british embassy continue to raise this case with the afghanistan authorities. the ambassador in kabul has raised the case and we are in discussion at the each week the house of commons is in session, we air prime minister's questions. nick clegg will come to visit president obama. you can see this on sunday night on c-span at 9:00 p.m. eastern. on our website, you can find our archive of prime minister's questions. >> coming up, the second and final arizona republican primary

debate. after that, a news conference to replace the west virginia senator robert byrd. at 11:00, robert service talks about his book on the life of leon trotsky. kenneth feinberg oversees the $20 billion fund created by bp for claims related to the gulf oil spill. he speaks to the clubs in washington. our coverage begins at 8:30 a.m. eastern on c-span2. >> for a snapshot of washington and the 111th congress, the congressional directory has the members of the house and senate, the supreme court and all of the justices. c-span is now available in 100

million homes, and you a direct link to public affairs, and politics as a public service created by america's cable companies. >> next, an arizona republican primary debate with john mccain, j.d. hayworth, and jim deakin. they met in arizona for their second televised debate before the primary. >> the primary is august 24. >> good evening, everyone. tonight, a debate for the u.s. senate. small business owner jim deakin, former congressman j.d. hayworth, and congressman -- and senator mccain.

>> good evening, everybody. thank you for joining us tonight to hear from the three republican candidates representing arizona. john mccain is running for the fifth six-year term in the senate. he was in the house six years before being elected to the senate in 1986. j.d. hayworth served six terms and house of representatives before losing his 2006 reelection bid. before announcing his candidacy early this year, he was the host for a talk-show program in phoenix. also with us tonight is jim deakin who owns and operates a small business in phoenix. we will keep this very simple. each candidate will have 90 seconds to answer my questions. rebuttals will be 45 seconds. 30 seconds to the candidate who was asked the original question. we will allow -- carve out about 90 seconds for each candidate to give a closing statement. tubman, thank you very much for

being with us tonight. we begin with mr. deakin. a lot has been said and written about who is the more conservative in this race? what makes you think you are? >> it is great that we're all considered conservatives, because we need more of that in washington, d.c. i would say i am most conservative, because i run a business. you have to balance the budget. i have worked from a budget. i have made a payroll. my opponents have been in washington, d.c., for a very long time. no child left behind did not help our state with its budget problems. those are some things that make a difference between the three of us. they spend a lot of time in

washington, d.c. i will live and work in arizona, trying to build and grow businesses. we need more of that. we need more people getting paychecks and unemployment checks. >> congressman, who was the most conservative? >> if we go by the gauge of the american conservative, it would be the person speaking now. from the a rating national rifle association. the endorsement of the gun owners' association of america. john mentioned this last night. i actually have a higher and better lifetime score than does john mccain. i am right on the issues -- note amnesty, no to the bailouts that cost $700 billion, then another $150 billion was earmarked spending that john voted for. i think john sponsored cap and

trade -- that is a horrible idea. when it comes to tax cuts, i helped write the tax cuts of 2001 and 2003, which john voted against and said they were "tax cuts for the rich." that sounds more like john kerry than the john mccain i used to work with. >> senator mccain, are you the most conservative in this race? >> i am a proud reagan republican. judy mentioned these organizations -- the citizens against waste, the arizona right-to-life endorsed me. the citizens for american tax reform. the national rifle association. these are outside, independent objective observers. we'll hear a lot of attacks like you just heard from j.d. hayworth. he was rejected by these voters. he came back as a paid lobbyist and talk-show host, and then was a late-night star on

infomercials. i do not think that you can call that being really conservative. i am proud of my conservative record. i'm proud to have the support of these organizations. including our sheriffs. including over 30 mares in the state, who know that can be most effective for them in washington, including the farm bureau, the chamber of commerce, all of these organizations that judge us independently, as opposed to a rather subjective view that you just heard. i am very proud to be a conservative. the difference between me and congressman hayworth really comes down to spending. he defended earmarked and pork barrel spending and eviscerated people that were close to it, calling them jihadists. those of us who stood up against the earmarked and pork barrel spending are proud of our record for doing so. >> let's go with rebuttals. congressman tiahrt, you have 45

seconds. -- congressman hayworth, you have 45 seconds. >> he quoted ronald reagan last night. we both agree that facts are stubborn things. john, when you look at your record, that bailout fund -- one vote -- $150 billion in earmarked. a little math lesson. you attacked me, sending out mail that i suppose -- supported that $70 billion in earmarked. it is not true. even if it were. with 10 -- even if it were, with one vote, you more than doubled that year mark. -- earmark. >> or tax provisions, not earmarks -- they were tax provisions, not your marks, which i have fought against the time after time. this is why former members of

congress reside in federal prison. this is why the american people rejected us out of the majority in both houses. a broad congressman hayworth in in 1994 -- they brought congressman hayworth in in 1994 and they kicked him out in 1996. we went from surpluses at the beginning of our republican majority to deficits because we let spending it out of control. i'm proud to have fought every day against that. >> i think it is great to see two big spenders talking about how they cut taxes. the government grew like 12 times during the senator's rein and 400% during the congressman's. that is not acceptable. we cannot afford that. we need growth in the private sector, not the government. they're from these different agencies that often only look at the title of a bill whether or not they determine it is good to be presented.

the congressman received 100% rating on the bill where he voted to increase the national debt limit. that is not a good conservative value. >> let's move on to border security. is it possible to completely secure arizona's border with mexico? after all, all but 50 miles, i understand some of our border -- i understand, of our border, our offense. they have a record number of agents at the border patrol. apprehensions are down. >> i have to bow out that john mccain has engaged in revisionist history. -- point out that john mccain has engaged in revisionist history. the spokesman dick acknowledge that had $150 billion in -- the spokesman did acknowledge that had $150 billion in earmarks. get the real story out there.

in terms of border security -- we should know that we must secure the border. when you take a look at what has happened, we still have a long way to go. it is unfortunate that president obama -- by the way, john was bearing in his criticism of mr. obama -- if john had told the truth about barack obama the way he is spreading falsehoods about me, john would be president right now. maybe he would do a better job on the border. president obama said that we cannot secure the border. imagine the irony. the candidate who said yes, we can, when it comes to this constitutional provision, suddenly says no, we cannot. we need our troops on the border -- are standing military. we have other measures that i look forward to talking about. >> is the border secure, senator? >> no.

amnesty means "no penalty." i have never supported any provision that said no penalty. the violence that has taken place on the other side of our border has dramatically escalated. we failed in 2006. i said in 2007, we have to secure the border. when i ran for president, i said the same thing. last year, jon kyl and i called for sending troops to the border -- or national guard. jon kyl and i invited the president to come to the border to see this incredible increase in violence. why should our constituents in southern arizona be subject to having signs that say "warning"? why should there be 21 people murdered just 6 miles south of nogales, arizona? the policeman had been threatened with murder. this violence justice today -- there was a car bombing in juarez brings a middle

eastern flavor to this problem on the border. jon kyl and i have a plan to get the border secure. we're making progress. we want the president to see the border. next time he is on a fund- raising trip for harry reid, stop by the border. we will show you why we need to get our borders secured. we can do it. i just came from a visit to israel. they have a secure border. >> mr. deakin. >> they both failed arizona. 28 years, 12 years, six years -- a republican house and senate, presidency. voters security -- border security was not a priority. one even says they wrote the book on border security. when he had the opportunity and responsibility to do something about it, he did nothing appeared he voted for met -- she did nothing. he voted for medicare part d, no child left behind, amnesty.

when ronald reagan signed an amnesty bill, the senator was a congressman. 10 years later, they both voted for amnesty provisions. they both voted against putting the army and the border in 2000. we need to build a fence and get better -- get better security systems. we need to start verifying the social welfare programs. the americans are the most generous people in the world. we need to make sure the people are taking -- the people who are taking advantage of those programs deserve to be here. >> the bottle -- senator mccain on border security. -- rebuttal -- senator mccain on border security. >> the situation is dire. the federal government is suing the state of arizona because the federal government has not fulfilled its responsibilities to secure the border. they are suing the state of

arizona -- where the not so in chicago? i-- why are they not suing the chicago? that is a sanctuary city. i am proud of our governor and the job she has done. i am proud of the way she stood up. we had to plath -- we had to pass that legislation through the legislature, because the fact is that our federal government is not carrying out its responsibility. our plan will secure the borders. >> mr. -- mr. deakin. 45 seconds. [cross-talk] you'll not be left out. >> we have hundreds of laws on the books to require the fence to get built, border security, deportation, immigration and naturalization requirements -- these are the responsibility of the executive.

congress writes the law. is up to the president and executive branch to enforce those laws. it is included in title viii. congress has the ability -- they have the opportunity to use the appropriations process and the confirmation process to hold the executive branch accountable and make them enforce the laws that are already on the books. >> now, 30 seconds. john mccain suddenly endorsed senate bill 1070. heretofore, he has been somewhat lukewarm. no real surprise. it mirrors my own enforcement first act. arizona, because the fed would not act, because john was writing the amnesty bill would take kennedy, when i was introducing the enforcement first act, arizona had to act. it boils down to -- senate bill 1070 is because arizona wants to enforce current law and president obama wants to ignore

current law. john mccain saw to erase -- sought to erase current law. >> do you believe there needs to be comprehensive immigration reform? if so, what should it include? >> that is an excellent question. obviously, it is a situation where we have 12 million people in this country illegally. mr. deakin is right. in the 1980's, we gave amnesty to 2.5 million people. the promise was that we would secure the borders. the american people do not believe us. we have to secure the borders first. we can do it without expenditure or too much money, especially compared with the cost in human suffering of these people who were being smuggled across, the drugs being brought into our country, the brutality that exists.

we have to secure the borders first. then, according to michael chertoff, there are millions of people who have committed serious crimes and they go to prison before they are deported. if you strictly enforce the laws, employers who employ people in this country illegally will be prosecuted. you will see a significant exodus of people out of this country. there are some exceptions, of course. there is a soldier in iraq who was a green card holder appeared his wife's mother is in this country illegally. i'm not going to deport her while he is fighting in iraq. there are cases that have to be addressed. the moral of the story is coming get the border security first. get the sanctions. then we can address the issue in a comprehensive fashion after the borders are secured. >> mr. deakin, your next and comprehensive immigration reform. >> i think the senator nailed it

-- the american people do not trust them anymore. they were not able to secure the border. washington has failed us. they are washington d.c. -- washington, d.c. they spent decades there and did nothing about it. we need to have a definitional difference. immigration is one thing. naturalization is another thing. there are uniform rules for naturalization, which is why i oppose amnesty. we have to have a conversation about immigration and migration -- people who want to come to work. when we have that definition differentiation, then we can have a real conversation. there are people who do not want to be naturalized citizens, but they do want to come here and make their lives better. >> this is very interesting. both of my opponents apparently favor amnesty. we have just heard the buzz word "migration." that is what we read from all of the open borders journals.

it is interesting to hear that. john is always talking about comprehensive immigration reform, because that is his and them for amnesty. we know about the cost. amnesty. we know about the cost. the long-term cost that you would incur would be $2.60 trillion. that is not sustainable. we have heard -- a nwe phra -- a new phrase -- "regularize." we have amnesty being promoted by another name. it is exactly the wrong course of action. >> rebuttal. mr. deakin first. then we will go -- >> i thought i was first. >> the question went you first,

so you get the last rebuttal. >> i thi i am right on the ball with this. on.m right [laughter] >> i think it is great that the congressman is talking about medicare costs. is that included on the medicare part d that you voted on? i am assuming that it is. [laughter] [cross-talk] >> one comment. >> they both failed. we have to do something about the 12, 20, 15 -- depending on which numbers you're listening to. colorado is complaining, mexico is complaining. enforcement of the law works. that is where we need to start. >> one note on medicare. last night, jim said we should

work to preserve medicare. what happened with prescription drug coverage? we ushered medicare into the 21st century. in the final analysis, they said the free market and market reform model actually saved money. now barack obama is in charge and it has changed. i understand the irony. john mccain did not want to have prescription drug coverage for seniors -- for citizens, but he's happy to give it away through his amnesty bill to the tune of $2.60 trillion. and all right. now you have your 30 seconds. -- >> all right. you have your 30 seconds. go ahead. >> i voted against it. the fact is that, again, this is a serious issue.

there is violence on the southern -- in northern mexico appeared the most vicious of the drug cartels -- mexico. the most vicious of the drug cartels are doing terrible things. when the transport human beings across the border, they keep them under the most terrible conditions. where are the human rights activists? we need to get our border secured. >> let's move on. mr. deakin, next question. in recent months, much has been made of the role of the borough governments. states are filing suit, saying washington is overstepping its constitutional bounds on everything from light bulbs to the regulation. is the federal government delving into areas it does not belong in? >> very much so. do you have a timeout chair? we might need it. [cross-talk] yes, the government has been

overstepping its constitutional authority for decades. they do not deserve all the blame. it started long before these gentlemen were in congress. things like the department of education, the department of energy -- these things which are being regulated, which are not enumerated in the powers of the constitution, cap and trade, which the congressman voted for in 2005. the senator believes in global warming. several of his announcements -- these things are way beyond the bounds of the constitution. if we're going to have epa regulation, it has to be on the state level, because that is what the constitutional amendments require pit it is not enumerated power in the constitution, it belongs to the states. bettero that, we'll have states and better economies. the department of education is a swiss cheese factory.

we sent tax dollars there. we pay great writer's to beg for some of it back. -- grant writers to beg for some of it back. >> i think historians will look back at the 20th century and note the rise of the de facto fourth branch of government -- the regulatory bureaucracy. as a member of the house and the next united states senator from arizona, i will introduce the congressional responsibility act, which would mandate that every regulation proposed by the washington bureaucrats be brought to the house and senate for an up or down vote. constitutional officers can then be held accountable. i testified in front of the house judiciary committee. jerrold nadler was apoplectic. if we do that, we will not have time to do much else, he said. i said, that is a bad thing? there was another good idea --

she called the enumerated powers act. i call the constitutional citation act. for any bill introduced by a member of the house or senate, the sponsor in the opening language to the bill should cite the specific provision in the constitution that is the legislative branch the constitutional authority to act in the first place. those are two important measures we can utilize to restore our constitutional republic and the rights and powers of the legislative branch. >> senator, is the federal government overstepping its bounds? >> of course. that is the result of the dramatic increase in the size of government. the government has doubled in size since 1999. we have seen bill after bill being passed through the congress of united states, which has further expanded government. what has it done? since we have not paid for it, we have a deficit that is mortgaging our children's futures.

we of all was handed down a better nation than the one we inherited. -- we have always handed down a better nation than the one we inherited. i cannot say that for the next generation. $13 trillion. please don't tell president obama what comes after $1 trillion. i have fought day after day and week after week against the supplemental, against earmarking, against obama care. we have had some good luck. i will tell you what, come january, we're going to start out with a balanced budget amendment to the constitution and repealed and replaced obama- care. we can do it. >> rebuttals. >> it is interesting to hear him lament the spending. when i returned to private life in early 2007, the total spending for that year was $2.70 trillion. john would claim he is a fiscal

conservative. your amnesty plan would cost $2.60 trillion in retirement benefits alone. you're scarcely in a position to lecture us about fiscal responsibility. the fact is your vote for the bailout -- $700 billion to the big wall street investment banks and $150 billion in earmarks -- yet he is trying to tell us he is opposed to your marks. -- earmarks. john is not telling us the truth. >> when i returned to private life -- did you get that one? first, it was the voters sent him back. it was not exactly a voluntary choice to return to private life and then become a paid lobbyist for a buddy of his in florida or do infomercials, which he said he did not due diligence. -- do due diligence.

there was an investigation which said, this is a terrible rip- off. what did congressman hayworth do? how much did you get paid for that, by the way? how can you call yourself a conservative when you tell people to pay thousands of dollars for a seminar so that they can get free money? >> mr. deakin? >> it's sounding better and better -- that timeout chair. [laughter] they both did it. the government grew 12 times while the senator was in office and 400% while the congressman was there. my paycheck is not 400% bigger and i can guarantee your paycheck is not either. the american people want citizen legislators to take washington, d.c. by storm. >> let's talk about the economy. we have nearly one in 10 americans out of work right now.

if you had to point to one thing, what would be the most important economic stimulus to help get the american economy back on track? >> i will answer that. my integrity has been questioned. you should know all about rejection, john. being rejected by the united states twice. you cannot even tell the truth about my situation. the fact is, the couple that owns that company -- they give you $11,000 in contributions. you must have loved them. here is the important thing. when i have made mistakes -- and i have said this before -- when i have made mistakes personally, i have admitted them. john can never admit his mistakes from amnesty to the bailout to the cap and trade, to the tax cuts.

nothing fancy, nothing complicated -- cut taxes and government spending. that gets us back on course for economic vitality and helps people get back to work. >> my efforts have been to help the economy. . >> that is because i worked hard in washington and here in arizona on behalf of these people. they are hurting right now. a guy come up to me and said that he lost his line of credit. a young woman stood up at a town hall meeting and said that she was being thrown out of her home.

>> we have to get people back in their homes and let them stay in their homes and get the incentives for small businesses to be able to employ people. we need to cut corporate taxes. we need to do a lot of things that will give small and large businesses some kind of confidence about the future. right now, arizona and america are hurting. a lead in the fight against obama care. i lead against the supplemental spending. a lead against this pork-barrel stimulus package. i am proud of my role in washington against one of the biggest movements of the federal government into the left when we really need a country that is going to be governed from the center and right. >> a very important question about economic security. what do we do here to get this economy going? >> we need to federal government

regulation -- let the states take care of regulation. we need to reduce the size of the federal government. i don't want to reform government. i want to dismantle it and get back to the states where it belongs. the federal government is putting its bureaucracy into the businesses, and it is killing the economy. the senate want to cut spending, but they don't say how they are going to cut spending or what regulations there are to cut. they put a lot of those regulations in place them in their tenure in congress. >> senator mccain, a revival. >> things are very tough now, as i just described. americans are resilience. arizonans are tough. we can rebuild the economy and get this country back on track. a huge election is coming up this november. people are standing up and saying we have had enough.

i am confident that starting next january when we have the majority in both houses, we can say no funds will be expended in order to implement obama care. we can cut taxes. we can stop the spending. many republicans are committed to do that. we just have to get them all doing that. the american people believe republicans less spending get out control, and they did, and we are paying for it. >> i am glad you brought up the tea party. i am a tea party activists. i have been marked -- i have been marching in the streets complain about the regulations put in place and the health plan that was pushed through. the center present options and amendments to the bill. he did not fight and lead

against it. he was part of the problem. if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. both my opponents have had the opportunity to stand by the u.s. constitution and cut regulations, to cut the size of government and the number of agencies, to reduce the amount of paperwork burden on insurance companies and doctors and anybody who works in business or has a manufacturing plant. that is what is pushing our industries out of this country. >> congressman, you get the final rebuttal. >> during all the talk about the tea parties, the old broadcaster in me comes out. i am pleased to announce i got the call. the east valley tea party has formally endorsed my candidacy. this is just the latest endorsement officially. i have received them from 70 party organizations here in arizona. the tea party movement is something we should really treasure, because it really indicates that people understand the common sense, lower taxes,

lower government spending equates with economic prosperity and more jobs. >> now we are growing to get into some foreign affairs. senator mccain, you get this question. the american involvement in afghanistan, i believe we are in the longest war now in our history. during the exit strategy, -- what should the exit strategy look like? >> it looks exactly the same as we employed in iraq. you get a counterinsurgency strategy that succeeds, and once the government in this -- is control and the local military authorities have been imposed in a society where people can live without fear, you can leave. in afghanistan, it is especially important. we can never allow afghanistan to return to being a base for attacks in the united states. we have the finest men and women

serving, and they are well- equipped and well trained. also, the fact is that we have a big problem. that is that the president of the united states announced that we were leading in the middle of next year. i asked general petraeus if any military person recommended that. he said no, and we are sending the wrong message. i was just in afghanistan. a police chief said the taliban are telling us your leaving, and if we cooperate, there are are to cut off our heads when you leave. that is an uncertain trumpet. no one follows an uncertain trumpet. i am confident that with the right strategy and leadership and conditions withdraw, we will enjoy the same success we enjoyed in iraq, which by the way, i stood up for the surge knowing that my political ambitions were doomed. i was right. >> a very important question about afghanistan. >> afghanistan is not just troubling, it is an abomination.

we have been eight years in afghanistan, longer than the civil war, longer than the revolutionary war, longer than world war ii. we need to send people with a new perspective to washington d.c. people have been willing to use what our founding fathers wanted to use around the world. we need to go back to using trade policies to get countries like afghanistan, pakistan, and yemen to police their own countries. we are not the world police force and we need to stop having politicians that use our military as a police force. only then can actually solve the problems in afghanistan. they are their own country. that have sovereignty themselves. they have an idea of what they want for their lives. as long as we impose our law upon them, they will never cooperate fully.

>> i am pleased to see that john mccain agrees with me at least in terms of the conduct of our current commander entry. it is more than an uncertain trumpet. we actually have a commander in chief wanting to give medals to folks not fighting. what an insult that is to the men and women who do any test we ask of them and are phenomenal for us. we should define victory in afghanistan as the eradication of the taliban and any al qaeda remnants within that troubled land, and we need to make sure that this commander in chief allows his commander on the ground to change the rules of engagement so that our troops can engage in war fighting. i thought was interesting that john decried a date certain. i agree there should not be a date certain anymore than we

that publicized legislation -- i remember you held up the defense appropriations to do for enhanced interrogation techniques. we know that at least for 9/11 style attacks were stopped by enhanced interrogation. the problem was in the statute and the language, we put out for enemies to see that we were subscribed to the army field now. in essence we allow them to teach for the test. that was wrong handed, and if we are not going to have a definite date certain to get out, we should not give a clear picture of the battlefield to our enemies in terms of what we will do to enemy combatants. >> the first rebuttal on the afghanistan question. >> the constitution says congress has the authority to declare war. that is what colin powell wanted to do. that is why he did not support center came for president, because we did declare war and they would not allow him the

full force of the military to go in and win in afghanistan the way he wanted to. we need new leadership in washington, people who will listen to our military leaders. when the time comes to defend ourselves, we can use the full force and might of our american military. >> again, i appreciate both these gentlemen and their service to the united states navy. we all know the story of john mccain service and sacrifice. but i have to tell you, in many ways, unfortunate, senator mccain has been an obama in a book. -- and obama enabler. what a mistake to bring enemy combatants to the united states, and is president and his attorney general use that as a pretext to bring the enemy combatants to try them in new york city for a trial in criminal court. john, they were guilty of

committing acts of war against the united states. it is time to call these actions what they are and take the steps to prevent. >> 30 seconds on afghanistan. >> according to him, we did not declare war on germany. by the way, in the field medamal we allow for certain techniques. in the largest prison camp in the world, 27,000 people, we were taken to a place where we met with a former high-ranking al qaeda figure. we asked how his -- how he is succeeded so well. he said the chaos, and the other was al qaeda. we recruited tens of thousands of young men because of abu ghraib. i know for a fact that you can get more information, better information for using the kind of techniques that we approved

of. i know for a fact if you torture someone enough and put the men in the physical pain, they will tell you anything it wants to know. there is always the one in a million case. that is where the president takes responsibility. i know about this very, very well. >> here in arizona, there are as many as 1 million residents of our state who do not have health insurance. what needs to be done with those who are not covered with health insurance, and who is responsible to ensure that all americans have access to affordable health care? >> i guess that depends on your definition. right now, many of those are considered in those numbers you are quoting are illegal aliens. we should not be providing health insurance. we should be sending them back to where they belong so they can get back -- to the back of the line if they want to come here legally. they should go to the back of the line in their home country. another big portion of that number is young people that

think they are impervious. they don't want to pay for health insurance, no matter the cost. when you are a young, single man 20 years old, your cost is not that high. another $100 in your paycheck makes a big difference to young man, especially if he is courting a young woman. those are personal decisions that we make, and the federal government should have no role in pushing anything on anybody. we make decisions because it -- because we have liberty and freedom in this country. if we give those powers to the federal government, we do not have those liberties and freedoms. >> what you say to these people that have no health insurance here in arizona? >> of course we have a program for the medically indigent. we have a problem with what is not a delivery of health, but a redistribution of wealth. the obama care that will cost $1

trillion, not to mention the amnesty that john has tried to give now priced to illegals. i guess people would laugh to keep from crying. is horrible was gone on with health care costs, and the senator has aided and abetted it with his amnesty bill. one of the great triumphs of my time in congress was establishing -- working on the ways and means committee to encourage americans to take control of their own health care and have special tax-free savings accounts to do so. speaking of the tax code, we should provide tax deductions, tax credits to every business that offers health insurance, not merely be business. and medical liability reform has to figure into this. would you have right now is just unthinkable spending for a comparatively small slice of the american pie.

we do not need obama care, this one-size-fits-all program. all john had to do was demand the bill be read. they could have stayed and fought it instead of now talking about repealed. >> the problem with health care in america is not the quality of care, it is the cost of care. the higher the cost goes, the more difficult it is to provide health insurance for those individuals you just talked about. day after day, week after week, even on vacation and weekends, we fought obama care. i have had that fight on the floor of the senate. reading the bills would have just delayed passage. the fact is we fought, and we fought hard. we have come up with positive alternatives to obama care. we can bring down the cost of medical malpractice reform, going across state lines to get the insurance provider of your choice. small businesses joining together to get health insurance

policies of their choice. there is a long list, beginning with medical malpractice reform, which is noted in those 2000 pages of the obama care bill. i am proud of the fight the republicans waged. we had a tough fight, and i am proud of the fight we waged. the majority of americans still want obama care repealed, and next january, we began. we will repeal and replaced. >> congressman, the rebuttal on health care. >> i think we were initially have the disease got down, but of course he voted for chris dodd, like -- we were initially happy to have chris brown. you said he led the fight here. this is fascinating. you have ended up on the losing side of so many fights.

john, you and i know rahm emanuel was in harry reid office writing that bill as it was being debated. even the network anchors would have been forced to report the story. we could have defeated that bill. john mccain has lead in losing fights. we don't need a last line of defense. we need a first line and advocacy for the state of arizona. >> groucho marx said, you can believe him or you can believe your own eyes. providing the men and women with the equipment training they need to win, to stand up against obama care, to stand up against my on party when spending got out of control, standing up and

fighting on the floor of the united states senate, and accomplishing a record that i am very, very proud of. >> mr. deacon. >> cents a congressman brought up rahm emanuel, he co-sponsored a bill with rahm emanuel, the president's right-hand man, but to lift capital gains tax on songwriters. another addition to a corrupt tax code. we need to not just modify the tax code. we need to repeal it and go back to a fair tax system. >> we are running a little bit late, so i am going to cut this one down from 90 seconds to one minute. it should be an interesting question for all of you. le'ron to take a moment, and

starting with the congressman, said the record straight. you had to pick one thing that bothers you the most about what you have been hearing tonight, take this opportunity to give us, in your view, what is untrue about it and set the record straight. >> i cannot believe my good fortune, but the challenge is only one minute. >> so you'll get your 90 seconds. >> john, you wrote the book, and you relate what happened in south carolina in 2000. he wrote harsh words, but they were about yourself. he said, given the choice between losing and lying, i chose lying. john, i am sorry to say that it appears history is repeating itself here, as you deal with half truths, as you deal with slaton character tax, as you fail to honor to the mistakes you have made that have hurt our nation, the millions of dollars in the attack ads that john

mccain has run against me. >> what is the one thing tonight that has bothered you that you have heard? >> that is a pretty strong attack there, and i really tempted to respond, but i am reminded of the advice of my old friend, senator bob dole. he said never give in to arrest -- he said never get into a wrestling match with a peak. you both get dirty, and the pig likes it. i am very proud of my record. i guess i had to change anything in the past many years, it is maybe that i did not do enough for the men and women who are serving. we are proud are service vets, but we need to keep working for them every day and keep them in our hearts and minds. i am proud of my record with veterans and all that, but i guess what i would say is, having a family in the military, we can always do more. we can never do enough for the men and women who are serving in our military.

>> mr. deakin, anything tonight that is kind of understand? what is the number-one thing that is bothering you? >> there is a lot for people to learn about me, so i encourage you to learn about me. my opponent cannot talk about me because i do not have a legislative record. they talk about the bad things both of them have done but to each other and to the country. that is what the tea party stands for, being an educated voter and an educated electorate. we make better decisions and we vote differently, and that is what i encourage people of arizona to do. " your principles. do not just vote because of name recognition. >> i am going to change the rules a little bit since we are running out time. let's just do 20 seconds quick rebuttal to the under the skin thing.

>> the thing that is bothering you the most. this is the rebuttal part to that. >> the thing that is bothering me more than anything else is obviously our jobs and the economy. i am also worried about our position in the world. we are sounding the uncertain trumpet. we have challenges all over the world and we have to stand up and meet them. i am confident that the military can do the job. i am very worried about our leadership in the white house. >> i guess a couple of things, not on the political front, more on the public policy abroad. i was chairman of the benefit subcommittee working with our dear friend elate bob stump. i would have welcomed your involvement when we were extending the gi bill for the very people you want us to take care of. history would be different if you would have just joined me instead of sponsoring that amnesty bill with ted kennedy. >> i was stuck with the montgomery gi bill, and that was

the horrible reform of the veterans' benefits, so you should not be proud of that one. again, both of these guys have been there. if you are happy with the way government is now, either one of them are the same. >> 90 seconds from each of you for your closing statements. we began in alphabetical order and we will go in reverse alphabetical order. we will start with senator mccain would your closing statement. >> thanks for hosting this event tonight. i appreciated very much. less than two weeks ago i had a great honor of celebrating our independence day in afghanistan with general petraeus and the men and women serving our country with such courage and integrity. it was a great honor for me to spend that time with them. i also go well to bethesda from time to time and visit with wounded warriors to inspire me

with the courage and fortitude. in the last few days, arizona and to son had been mourning the loss of a brave and courageous son of arizona and tucson. he could have played baseball at the university of arizona. instead, he joined a long line of heroes and join the military and serve, and sacrificed on behalf of freedom. our thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends. he was a hero to us all. chris and pat stillman so many other brave warriors continue to inspire me, continue to serve this country, and help them return in victory and honor. the great honor of my life was being able to serve this country in the united states senate. i humbly ask for your support in your vote on august 24.

>> we will start to the point of agreement. i give thanks for everyone who has been willing to stand up to defend this country in wars past and present, weather stations stateside or at some far-flung post or even in the combat zone. the preserve our system, and it is precisely because they stand in the breach that we have the political process when we have disagreements in terms of public policy, we make a change through the political process. john mccain has served us a lo time and in many ways, initially served us well. but after 28 years in washington d.c., we just disagree with him. his amnesty bill, $2.60 trillion in retirement benefits to illegal aliens. the bailout, $700 billion for the wall street investment banks and another $150 billion in year marks. his sponsorship of the cap and trade bill, and finally the tax cuts that i helped write, that

reinvigorated our economic growth. john voted against them in 2001 and 2003, calling them tax cuts for the rich. i really loved working with the old john mccain. this new john mccain is somewhat like john kerry. that is why it is time for a consistent conservative. i ask for your vote in the upcoming publicarepublican prim. >> this hour has gone very fast. it has been a lot of fun. thank you for having us here. next time we have to do something to lighten the mood a little bit. in 1991 when i was discharged from the navy, i move to arizona because of the cost of living, the opportunities for business and education and employment. it was a great place to come. we had great outdoors. you can hunt and fish.

the cost of gas was very cheap. everything was reasonable and we can live in this state. because of the growth of government, everything is costing more now, because we have to pay for the federal government. that is not acceptable to me. both of my opponents voted to increase the national debt limit. that both say they are very conservative, but they voted to increase the national debt limit, year after year after year. they voted to increase taxes on my children, grandchildren, and my great great grandchildren. that is not acceptable to me. the voters have had enough. i encourage them to get to know jim deakin. i have real solutions to the problems. there's a lot more information on my website, or you can call me. i actually answer my own web sites. i do not have a staff. you do have a choice. >> thank you all very much for spending an hour with us today. that will wrap up our special

live, one hour edition of arizona illustrated. our thanks and best wishes to the three candidates. you can email us with your comments by logging on to our website. good evening. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> the cook political report breaks the race and a general election match of solid republican. house leaders plan to vote on two pieces of legislation stalled and the senate. live coverage on c-span. the senate resumes business at

2:00 p.m. for one hour of general speeches, then at 3:00 p.m., work resumes on a trust fund bill which sets up a $30 billion a small business lending fund. passage of the bill could be addressed as early as tuesday. that is after carte goodwin is seated. that is on c-span2. >> for a snapshot of washington and 111th congress, the c-span correct -- congressional directory. order online at c-span.org /store. c-span is now available in more than 100 million homes, bringing you a direct link to republican affairs alas a public service. it is created by america's cable

companies. >> on friday, west virginia governor joe manchin announced that the seat has been filled that was vacated by longtime senator robert byrd. mr. goodwin will have an immediate impact on the senate, starting with extending unemployment benefits. here is the governor's announcement. it is just under 30 minutes. >> you all can sit down, please. >> you all can sit down, please. >> senator rockefeller, mr.

president, first lady, the entire family, the first mom. just a few moments ago i signed the appropriate paperwork with the secretary of state to make this announcement official. robert c. byrd was a giant. he can never be replaced. i have said it can never fill his shoes, we just hope we can follow in his footsteps. i have waited to make this appointment because it is important to do this right. i want to thank the white house. i want to thank majority leader reid. i want to thank especially senator rockefeller in the entire senate for making this procedure and this process works flawlessly. for allowing west virginia to go to the process we have, they have been most gracious, and i

truly want to give our thanks for that. the time has come to appoint someone to the senate who will look out for west virginia, who will work hard for west virginia and is a proud west virginian. i am now extremely proud to appoint cart they went to the united states senate. [applause] >> regardless of whoever occupies the seat now and in the

future it will always be known as west virginia is united states senate seat that was occupied for nearly picketers are on, beloved senator robert c. byrd. however, i am truly confident that carte good when will look out for west virginians, and i know he will make us all proud. i have worked shoulder to shoulder with him for four years. i know a man. i know that west virginia is better off because he has passed this way. he has been part of some landmark legislation. i know the senate president will attest to that, the hard work and commitment and promotiodevoe has had for west virginia. he is fiercely independent. we have gone toto many times. that is what i really came to admire and love so much about him, that he would not back down. when we made our decision, i had no doubt he would carry out the duties and the wishes of the people of west virginia.

as a result, he has not only gain my trust but my respect. let me, carte is someone who understands the importance of bringing all sides together. i think of so many people that had the true talent to sit down with people in this agreement, people that may be raised before, that had a different philosophical belief, but was able to understand and really appreciate and respect for everyone is coming from. that is really what it is about, respect. we'll have to agree or come from the same background. we are not going down the same highway, if you will. but you have to respect for people coming from. you are better purposperson wheu are able to sit down and do that. he has done that as well as anyone i have seen.

the mining disaster is something that is still etched in our mind. i will never forget that. no one gave me a book and set you have had a horrible disaster, here is the procedure you go through. it was just all gut. i had lived did before, and i knew what the family was going through. it was a horrible situation. we lost 12 wonderful people. not more than three weeks after that, i get a call and they send me to another exact situation. there are two men missing. no one really knew what we are doing, but we had more than 60 rescuers trying to find two men, and they were all in jeopardy. it could of been a horrible situation. i got there thursday. friday night i called carte, and said i do not know exactly what the situation is. i don't think it is going to be good, but i can tell you, i want you to start tonight. get your team together and start writing legislation.

this was late friday night when i called him. he left, and she did not see him again until monday night. he kept his team around the clock through sunday night. they brought the legislators back in monday morning and we had legislation prepared, unprecedented. we changed the safety of mines around the country because of the hard work and commitment and dedication that he had. and i appreciate that so much. the good when family has a long and proud tradition of service in west virginia -- the goodwin family. some people look at different people in different families in think that this is a tremendous honor, and it truly is. they look at the glamour of it, if you will. what you don't see a lot is basically the sacrifices that their wives, husbands, their

children, the holidays they give up, the commitment and sacrifice to devotion, the hobby's they might have never been able to take up because of their commitment. there is so much that goes into public service. i cannot be more proud of people that i know and consider my dear friends, people that continue to serve at the highest level. i respect each and every one of you for what you have done and what you give back to our state and our country. as i introduce a carte, he will join the united states senate as the youngest senator serving. it is only be fitting that he is replacing the most beloved, the most historic figure that the senate has ever known, and who happen to be the oldest when the good lord took him. what a tremendous signal i think that shows of west virginia, but what a tremendous opportunity that we have that we passed this torch to another generation.

i continually have encouraged and pushed young people to get involved in public service. now we are growing to pass that george to someone of a generation that will have an opportunity to lead west virginia in the future. i want to thank each and everyone of you for being here today. i want to thank all of them and of you who have helped in this process. i want to thank every west virginian who has been so patient, and i hope they understand that we wanted to do it right for one purpose and one reason only, and one man, and one man only, robert c. byrd. i think we have honored him as we showed our respect. i think the nation honored him and i know that washington and senator rockefeller and his colleagues honored him by coming here to his memorial. i know that today we honor him in choosing a replacement, a worthy replacement, and going through this process at the legislature. the senate has just finished its business and has a bill for us.

the house will finish their business, and i thank them. we'll have a proper way of how we hold an election. the people will make the selection. that is exactly what robert c. byrd would want, and we are doing it the way it should be done. without further ado, let me introduce to you officially the newest member of the united states senate, carte goodwin. [applause] >> thank you. thank you.

thank you very much. needless to say, it is an immense honor to be standing here today to accept an appointment to the united states senate. i want to thank my friend, governor manchin, for entrusting me with this very enormous responsibility. in turn, my responsibility now becomes to work hard every day to maintain the trust of the people of west virginia. i have a deep and abiding passion for this state and its people. in the days, weeks, and months ahead, my sole objective will be to make west virginia proud. i will have no agenda other than to work and fight hard every date for west virginia families. as the governor alluded to, senator robert c. byrd, perhaps the greatest public servant our state and country will ever know, and no one can even begin

to replace him. nor can anyone hope to fill his shoes. but what i can do, and what i will do, is try my best to emulate his work ethic and his commitment to the law, the constitution, and this great state. [applause] in doing so, i will rely heavily on that mentor sheep avert senior center, senator rockefeller. and of course, i experience serving with the governor, having spent four years working so closely with him, i was able to see firsthand the level of commitment, passion, and dedication that takes to be an effective public servant. is that level of dedication

passion that i hope to take with me to washington. it will not be easy, and there'll be a lot of challenges ahead. i have a lot to learn in a very short time, but i am confident i am up to the challenge, because i know i can count on the support of my family, and my dad who will be looking down. senator rockefeller and the entire delegation, my friend governor manchin, and most importantly, the thought, prayer, and support of the people of west virginia. i excited about the challenge and looking forward to it. [applause] >> i am not sure if you all have noticed, but the notice the pin

that we have on is the constitution. i don't need to tell you why we have those on. the last thing senator byrd did, one of the last things, he wrote in his book to me, and i am passing this book on to the united states senator that will be seated in his honor. [applause] with that, i cannot tell you what a pleasure it is to have our senior center here today. -- senior senator here today. i have worked extremely closely with this man. he has been a tremendous partner. you are so fortunate if you have a good partner, and i have been so blessed, because i know every

day he gets up, he is thinking about west virginia. every time i call, he is telling me how can help west virginia. every time he calls me is giving me an idea of how to make west virginia better. he has never, ever let us down. i am so pleased to have him with us at this historical, momentous occasion. history is being made today. with that, let me introduce to you the senior senator from the great state of west virginia, jay rockefeller. [applause] >> thank you. first of all, i want to thank the governor and say that he has shown extraordinary courage, of less, and wisdom in the way that

his big way that he has carried out the making of this appointment. had to be done right. had to be done in a way that he was truly representing the rights of the people of west virginia to make decisions, and he did that. if it took a week, it did not make any difference, because he did write. -- he did it right. there are lots of test of leadership, and this one was not a grand one in the annals of rescuing somebody or some company whatever, but it was extraordinarily important, and i think you showed your qualities of leadership in the way you handle the making of this appointment. i want to thank also earl ray tomlin and rick thompson, and the entire state legislature for

their part in making this come about. obviously, we honor senator byrd, but one thing that he would say very strongly, there is no such thing as an interim senator. it may be that the months that you reported to work have a limitation, but there is no such thing. let me tell you for example will happen. on tuesday at 2:00, the democrats will have -- will conclude our caucus which we have every tuesday to discuss policy. extremely important, giving everybody a chance to speak. at 2:15, the new senator from west virginia, carte goodwin, in whom i have asked respect, will

be sworn then in front of the united states senate and in front of the world. right after that, because carte goodwin make the 60th vote in what is a very necessary piece of legislation, will take up and pass unemployment compensation. [applause] i think it is a remarkable symbol of who carte is, how important the senate is, how unimportant the word interim is. it does not exist. he is a nine state senator. there have not been more than 1800 united states senators in the history of this country, and

carte is our most recent one. he will have all the powers of any other senator. he probably will not have the biggest home base at the beginning. he may have to walk up one floor to get to the first floor. [laughter] but none of that makes any difference, because in the senate, that is why the word senior or junior has never meant anything -- it is what do you know, can you express yourself, are you genuine, are you tough in the rules of engagement? can you reach across the aisle? can you bring others with you? most importantly, what i started off with, how much do you know?

that is how senators are judged. yes, there is a seniority system, which i have grown to like much more. [laughter] but it is superficial, really. senatore goodwin, when he has officially sworn in to that name, will have all the powers of any of the senior members of the senate. it is very important that you understand that, that you never think of him as being interim. he is a united states senator, pure and simple. robert c. byrd would want that to be well known. so i tell you, and now a moment on a carte goodwin. i am thrilled that he was appointed. i am so happy that he is a goodwin, because my life has

been blessed in so many ways by the work and the presence and friendship and company and its vice of various members of the good when family -- the goodwin family. i feel very close to them. i respect their work ethic. i respect their automatic sense of public responsibility. they seek out what needs to be done and then go about doing it. they do it in various fields, but they always do it in the interest of west virginia. carte has a lot of experience. the governor has covered some of that. what i like about him the most is what i know because i have an inside source in that family. it is his absolute commitment and dedication to the people of west virginia. you can have all the qualities i mentioned before, but if you don't have that sense when you get up in the morning of what is

it this day that i can do, whose vote do i have to get, what compromise to have to make or reduced to make that affects the people of west virginia and the best possible way? washington is not a beautiful place right now. ask any of your neighbors. but it is doing the work that will make this country recover and be strong. criticism is easy. the work of doing the right job for america and west virginia is very important. it is interesting, they call us the united states senators from west virginia. that would appear to set up a conflict, and there are times when that conflict has to lean

little bit more, particularly when you are discussing matters of war and peace, intelligence, foreign assistance, whatever, that they will ship more toward the united states. but i find that what gives me my pleasure, going all the way back to the time when i was a vista of volunteer, that is west virginia that get me out of bed every day. the people of west virginia who are sometimes underestimated by the rest of the world. the rest of the world is often very callous. but those who know us, treacherous, and we treasure ourselves. we have enormous pride in who we are. carte has the highest professional standards. that is something that is important, because it is immediately recognized by other senators. again, senators are fairly quick to make up their mind. they listen to you, they look

you, they look at you if you are looking at them straight in your eye. they are fairly quick to make up their minds. carte will pass all those tests easily, because he is a consummate professional. he is a disciplined mind and human being. he can work and will work to whatever link is required to accomplish something for the people that he and i represent. i cannot tell you how proud i am personally and professionally to know that in three or four days, that carte goodwin and i are going to be colleagues. not sr. and jr., colleagues working together for west virginia. i think he is absolutely first- class, as a person and as a

professional, and i think the people of west virginia, under the wise selection of governor manchin are very, very lucky. i know the senate is, and i know that i am. so partcarte, you started this b with the support of everybody. i look forward to what we can do together, what we can do with our colleagues, to keep pushing forward for west virginia, for west virginia's coal miners, for middle-income, earned income tax credits, chocolates, all those things that help working families, which is what basically makes of west virginia. we are at work on a very thorough piece of mine safety legislation. it is coming out of the ubb

experience. we have learned a lot since then, and we will turn out further legislation. everything we do their, whether it is credited as such or not, is important. it is important because its affect somebody somewhere. when it affects people in west virginia, carte goodwin and jay rockefeller going to be standing side by side, fighting for west virginia. governor, i am grateful to you. carte, i look forward to you. you start out on the right side of history. thank you. [applause] >> tonight, on "q&a," robert

service. also, prime minister's questions with david cameron on the cost of reorganizing the national health service and abetting the minimum wage system. and the second and final arizona senate primary debate. later, the news conference announcing the replacement for late west virginia senator robert byrd. >> the senate judiciary committee will vote on tuesday on the nomination of a land taken as a supreme court justice. learn more about the nation's highest court in a c-span's latest book, "the supreme court." is available in hardcover and as an e-book. >> for a snapshot of washington >> for a snapshot of washington and