for conservatives. at 9:15, part of our week-long discussion of the new health- care law focusing on how it affects individuals. we will be joined by a representative from the cato institute. this "washington journal is.." . . most go let's look at a top "the new york times" -- host: lets look at a top" new york times --

let's look at a top "the new york times" story this morning. have you experienced a reduction in pay because of the economy? the numbers to call, for republicans, 202-737-0001. for democrats, 202-737-0002. for independents, 202-628-0205. you can, of course, find us online. the e-mail address is journal@c- span.org. we are also on twitter at twitter.com/c-spanwj. here is the story. "more workers take pay cuts, not furloughs. furloughs are being replaced by highly unusual tactics, actual cuts in pay. in cost-saving measures that are ultimately a last-ditch effort to avoid layoffs.

a slight dip in overall wages and salaries in june. although the average hourly pay is still higher than when the recession began, the new wage rollback is a worry that the economy has got weaker. that people with spending are waiting for prices to drop further. a familiar idea for those following the housing market. looking at how companies, states, and city governments are dealing with this issue of tightening budgets, pay cuts are appearing amongst state and local governments, which are under extraordinary budget pressure and have already tried furloughs. many governors and mayors are pressing for an acceptance of the reduction in salary of a

few percentage points without giving days of in exchange." here is a story from the university of hawaii, " professors have accepted a 6.7% cut. albuquerque has trimmed pay for its 6000 employees by 1.8%. in vermont they have agreed to a 3% cut and in california, school teachers have accepted pay cuts ." the topic this morning is workers accepting pay cuts instead of furloughs. what is happening in the private sector? "factory owners threaten to close or move jobs to lower-cost locales unless employees agreed

to pay cuts. general motors is paying new employees $14 per hour, half the rate of long-term employees. few have seized on the slack labour market and the weak bargaining power to cut pay, but they have increased profits and competitiveness. the pain is felt across industries. at the seattle symphony workers have taken a 5% pay cut. teamsters have been asked to agree to 15% less. newsday has accepted a 5% to 10% pay cut. willard, democratic line, clinton, north carolina. caller: how you doing? host: fine, is this something you have experienced? caller: yes, and it is a good

idea for people to take pay cuts and keep their benefits in a career job. i think there is nothing wrong with that. host: have you faced a pay cut? caller: i have not, i am now retired. host: continuing back to the "the new york times" story, "workers sometimes fight back in areas of the stress. in albuquerque they are suing, demanding that the plan should include furloughs." in the economy, tangentially related, the president awarded monetary awards to federal appointees, saying that like households and businesses across the country, the federal government is tightening its belt. those that are political

appointees, "the new york times" business section as this, "american concerns have been putting away more paycheck than initially reported. consumers saved 6.4% of their after-tax income in june and that the savings rate has shot up since 2009. for many years the savings rate was at 2%. does america have a new-found love affair with frugality? will it hold back economic growth? new jersey, republican line, good morning. caller: i am on a fixed income myself right now. i am managing paying off two credit cards, paying the rent and bills.

it can be done. host: have you had to make sacrifices? caller: i really do not want to spend anything on something i do not need any help, so i have not been spending. my fiancee purchases things for me that i need. if halso far, so good. host: brooklyn, new york, michael, in the and the line. -- independent line. caller: with pay cuts you have these overseas jobs that want to come back to the wages they were given overseas. we are also trying to learn to live with less, the work force

is under attack, learning to live with less money. the way that these businesses do that is by cutting your hours, your pay rate. all of these things. yet we have money to start another war with iran. we are putting sanctions on them, doing this and that, who is paying for it? host: from "the new york times," ben bernanke said in a speech on monday, "americans will start spending once they get a healthy increase but is not clear when that happened." making the link between pay cuts and having an influence. looking at the elections that took place last night, we heard about some of the folks on the

ballot who had been facing big decisions yesterday. taking a look at the results, from "usa today," "rep fitzpatrick loses, carnahan wins. voters in michigan, missouri, and kansas' kicked off a busy month of primary elections. seven term house veteran, chairman of the american black caucus in the detroit area, state senator hanson clark. she made a campaign issue of -- clark made a campaign issue of kilpatrick's son, who resigned two years ago amid charges of perjury and obstruction of

justice." taking a look at some of the other charges from last night -- some of the other races for less night, "michigan in its primary election yesterday with more than 40% of safe precincts reporting, the mayor of lansing, virg bernero, won the democratic nomination. the former president of gateway inc. be back four opponents including the state attorney general." other races in play, "kansas, sam brownback easily won the nomination for governor, setting up a battle for his old job.

representative jerry warren b. doubt his competitor for the gop nomination. he had the backing of conservative leaders. one of one dozen endorsements made this month in the primary races. another race we have been watching, easily beating challengers that claimed tea party ties, representative cardin and won the democratic nomination -- carnahan won the democratic nomination in missouri." let's get back your calls and how workers are facing pay cuts and said furloughs. pennsylvania, linda, democratic

line. caller: how are you doing? host: good. caller: i occasionally watch european television. it seems like they had a pretty good idea over there for how they handled the downturn. they would just cut one day, half of a day. when the downturn was over, the workers retain their skills. they are about even unionize over there. the way that it was handled with unionized companies it might be a good idea for us. host: south carolina, hello.

what do you think about this issue? caller: i have thought about joining the democratic party. they talked a lot about how the republican party keeps blocking the measure is for saving these teachers' jobs, stressing on these programs going to private schools for their kids and families with children suffering. millions of programs will be cut out in i do not think that that is right. host: virginia, and-burn, hello.

caller: these pay cuts should happen. it is hard to make a living. is not easy to feed a family. i was at a company for three years with no pay raise and after that it was a layoff. they are shrinking the economy. thank you. host: baltimore, dolores, hello. what you think about this decision from companies and municipalities that have decided to take pay cuts instead of job furloughs? caller: a few years ago i thought that in tough times we should, crossed the board, no matter who you are, they should cut vacation time.

you know how people accumulate vacation time on the job? i think they should cut that out. you want to go on vacation, go ahead, go on vacation without pay. host: overnight we mentioned that in the michigan race for governor, virg benerro capture the nomination on the democratic side. rick snyder on the republican side defeated mike cox in the five way gop race. sean, independent line, florida. how are you? caller: fine, thanks, i absolutely agree with this. austrian economists have predicted this since we left the gold standard. this direction has got to

happen. until americans are affected in their wallets, that is when we will see a resolution to the problems that has caused capital to leave this country. the world will not wait around for the united states to get competitive. we will take it upon ourselves to return to capitalism in recognizing a defeat of a country like russia or the cold war. or we will become a third world country. this is the choice of our lifetime. thank you very much. host: nancy, democratic caller, good morning. caller: if they're going to cut a light that they should cut your phone bill, gas bill, grocery bill, if they have to cut everyone's pay they need to

make things affordable. >> -- host: will talk about companies, states, making decisions -- we are talking about companies, states, making decisions to cut employer -- employee pay instead of furloughs. philadelphia, good morning. caller: primaries of show that the american public is willing to pay for those cuts. i think that the government should understand that and cut back on all of these programs to show that they are willing to do with the american public is willing to do. host: another issue last night, missouri, no vote for a federal health law. voters on tuesday easily approved a measure at nullifying federal health-care

laws. "the measure was intended to invalidate crucial elements of the obama health care law, mainly that most people be required to get health insurance or pay tax penalty. supporters of the measure said that it would send a firm message to washington. jumping down a referendum seemed to draw relatively little attention in the state, and said republicans appear to have carried a crucial role and it remains uncertain what effect the vote will have. the insurance aspect is not come into effect until 2013 and by then, experts s in on the provision. we will continue with our weeklong series later in the show about the health care law,

what it means, and how would will rollout can happen. one more caller, michigan, in the pan and line. what do you think of the issue of pay cuts and furloughs? caller: thank you for c-span. i am a retired uaw president. i am appalled that management is attacking labor by even discussing pay cuts. this is th time when we must learn from the past. we have to learn the lesson taught to us by roosevelt. we need to reduce the work day is. the problem is not the fault of

the worker, it is technology. for the raf hay has not kept up. -- the rate of pay has not kept up. that is the reason that a lot of democrats went for a republican nominee this time furious half -- this time. that is what it is going to take. labor unions that we do not have any more, we need strong labor unions to step up and fight for the rank-and-file workers. it is obvious that when you pay the workers that do not work, younger workers have an attempt to destroy the union. host: looking at what is going on in the said this week, we are joined now by a congressional

reporter from "politico." good morning, meredith. caller: hey there. host: thank you for joining us. what is expected this week when it comes to the vote for elena kagan? caller: there was actually this interesting moment on the floor yesterday afternoon between harry reid and mcconnell. harry reid flirted with the idea of filing cloture, which would be the beginning of a procedural process to stop republicans from pushing back the vote on the nomination. usually there is an agreement on the number of votes, but harry reid was feeling a bit nervous and republicans, he was worried, without the on board, but he did get assurance from

the minority leader that the vote should happen on thursday. five have already said they will vote for elena kagan. which should lead to file confirmation. host: what is not getting done this week? tell us about the announcement yesterday that harry reid will not bring up the energy bill before the congressional recess. caller: i hate to use a double negative, but what is not not getting done? of unemployment, energy, and improve safety bill, all of these things that harry reid wanted to do. a top republican aide was going around telling everyone that they would only be confirming the supreme court nominee and that was it.

one of the huge issues was with the liability tax for oils -- for oil companies. it was $75 million. something that people in congress felt very strongly about. it was not clear that harry reid had the entirety of his caucus. within his own caucus, because he had such a large majority in the senate, independence and self-described socialist, in the middle they became the first democrats to vote against their party's nominee for the supreme court since 1968. it is something hard for him to corral, even harder still to use another republican in the numbers were not there.

he confirmed yesterday that when they come back in september he will try again, but it is hard to see how the path to get to 60 votes gets easier after august. remember last year with all of the tea party rallies and tell all meetings, people coming out against health-care. maybe that is one of the reasons they did not want to have this vote, it could overshadow some of those legislative victories that they have had. they did get unemployment insurance passed finally, and i think that if they had had this energy bill vote, i do not know that they would have tested. and i do not think they wanted to risk starting up with an electorate that is already volatile because people are

still upset that they do not have jobs. unemployment in this country is high. host: if i can interrupt for a moment, the small business jobs bill, is there any progress this week? caller: i do not think that that will happen either. one of the huge problems with that right now is senator olympia snowe, who had been a huge ally of harry reid. she was going to vote for elena kagan on wednesday, but she is one of the chief architects of this legislation. there was a $30 billion fund added to the amendment of the bill that she does not support. at the end of last week she had this dramatic speech on the

senate floor, saying that she could not vote for open debate on the legislation, even though she is demanding that the white house leader bring it to the floor in january. harry reid says that he has been in negotiations with the minority leader since last week and he believes that there have been some positive talks within the republican conference and the democratic caucus, but it is unclear exactly what those negotiations are and if you will be able to pull it off. host: anything else on the docket this week? caller: the state aid boat will happen today. -- vote will happen today. it is on the calendar. dick durbin basically said that

there was a shot at passing the procedural hurdle, but it is only a shot. right now the white house and senate democrats have keyed in on susan collins, hoping they can get her support for this bill. it is tough to say what she will choose to do. if she chooses not to support this bill, democrats in the senate will be left high and dry again. it will be stocked in legislative limbo. host: thank you so much for joining us this morning, meredith. caller: thank you so much for having me. host: we are looking for your calls about the decisions from many companies, municipalities, and states, cutting worker pay instead of going into furloughs. our earlier caller, hank, said

that while most of the pay cuts seem to hit unionized workers, "some of them are also taking place only a month non-union employers." in "the new york times," the bay reported "the government does not keep these statistics. a growing number of employers in the public sector have ordered wage cuts. 51% of cities have cut or frozen the salaries of employees. 22% said they revised union contracts and 19% have instituted furloughs." antoine, independent line, good morning. caller: many of the jobs being

lost are being lost because of the factoring. payroll is being measured against receivables, making it difficult for when they are purchased and not coming in on time. they have to find another way to make a role. it comes back to our society being based on credit. once we get away from that, we can start moving forward. host: denver, colorado, republican line. caller: the last person that spoke read my mail. by the way, good morning. my thinking was that government has to work within the means of the tax base it is drawing on. much like companies do.

there are times when we simply have to be more frugal. i am finding stores i did not know existed, saving money. i have the right to save some dove. -- some money. one has to live within their means, just like government. we will get by. these people are not being laid off and should be grateful for the job that they have. money is money. host: there is a report in "the new york times" business section, "government statistics show flat levels, the economy continuing to struggle as projected for the second half of the year." cleveland, good morning.

john, good morning, are you with us? caller: how are you doing today? host: good, welcome. caller: hello? host: what do you think? caller: this is a -- host: we are waiting for your comment. let's move on to north carolina of. robbie, democratic line. caller: this is a movement to bust labor, they do not want to pay health, labor, welfare or social security. fuhit goes back to the regulati. i was a member of the union at the time. they were cutting businesses that i did not know existed. host: youngstown, ohio.

caller: i just wanted to say pay cuts, as long as we keep looking at the wrong source of the problem we will keep getting the wrong answers. this problem started when we went to the free trade model with industry is going under -- overseas. where did economists think that the money would come from to support our standard of living? republicans wanted entitlements, but entitlements for of the problem. economists looking at comparative advantages, of the biggest problem was cash for corporations. they did this. now they want to blame democrats, cutting wages. they did this, they wanted to have government step in and provide the things that trade policies gave away. they did this and now the

president is saddled with cleaning up the mess that they made republicans did this. as far as the tea baggers, it is if they want unregulated capitalism, they need to step back into the economy. host: the vote for elena kagan, "the new york times," reports that the senate opened debate yesterday in a refreshing choice from outside the usual judges. denounced as a liberal that would bend the law to her views ." c-span has elena kagan hub,

where you can listen to her answers and listen to the back and forth in the members of the judiciary committee. you can listen to her previous appearances. with the confirmation, the latest is that the alaska senator said yesterday that she would be reporting the nomination . there are republicans who have gone across party lines to support her. that is all on our web site at c-span.org/kagan. tim, good morning. caller: i was going to school to become a brain surgeon, i would come home and practice on myself. when you pay a working and

living wage, he spends his money on things like homes, guitars, taking his family on vacation, which will not help the economy. for me to take a pay cut, giving up my attention for some rich kid who has never worked at honest day's work in the life to receive larger dividend checks, as far as the bad brains, when bill clinton was taxing me to death i made more money than i have ever made in my life. host: going to a comment from twitter, "wages must equal production." wisconsin, independent line, good morning. caller: i would like to say that in regard to public employees, i truly believe that their income, whenever public they are representing or working in,

whether it be the city or county, it should be the reflection of the average county in its area with likewise benefits. we believe that that is only fair and equitable. host: do you believe that that happens naturally? caller: often, but not often enough. i think that there should be more public exposure of the public sector. host: looking at this story from "usa today," "states with the highest jobless rates are getting less money than states with below average unemployment. florida ranks last despite having the nation's fifth highest unemployment rate. nevada has the worst, 14.2%."

u.s. it -- this analysis is the first to look at all three parts of the stimulus program. the article points out that the allocation of stimulus money is not related to unemployment as it was factored in, pulled out based on where it was going. republican line, west virginia. caller: everyone tries to talk about lowering the wages of the workers, but how about lowering the wages of the owners? they should be taking a pay cut. the top administrators in the government. one more thing, this obstructionism by republicans are making me think, you anti- american pieces of -- host: you can certainly express your opinion without resorting to name calling. looking at what is happening in

the gulf of mexico, "the static kill started yesterday with engineers yesterday putting in refined materials into the well from the top, pushing it down into the reservoir 15,000 feet below the sea floor." that is the vp effort to plug this bill and make sure that it stays closed. "the new york times" has a report coming out today, "the government is expected to announce that three-quarters of the oil from the deep water rise the league has already evaporated. much of the rest is so diluted that it has not been deposed by original risk. the government report finds that 26% of the oil is still in the water onshore, but most of it is a light sheen on the ocean's surface.

federal scientists believe that it is breaking down rapidly in both places. people on the gulf coast have been wondering if another shoe was going to drop, oil emerging to damage the shorelines. government calculations are withstanding scrutiny that that seems increasingly unlikely. the agency that produced the report will be giving more news on that today." massachusets, independent line. caller: first of all, i feel like sometimes people have an unrealistic standard of living today to begin with. unfortunately we had such a boom and people had so much going on with their income, now

it is such a struggle to come back. i was born in 1955 and the people back then, is not enough for them. to, i work for a small shop in massachusetts. a hair salon. my owner -- i was not able to get to the other comment about owners making cutbacks, a he was not able to get any small business loans. he has always been a good provider. he has paid his rent on time, all of those things. he s to the management company if he would lower rent for the salon. he took no pay at all, none. we all finally realize that he was having to struggle and we took a cut back on our

paychecks. we have had that restored. we are doing very well right now, doing better than we did. i just wanted to say that i feel like i am very busy at this moment in thinking that we are having a small recovery in our shop and area. i do not know if that represents the in your country, but it is a small piece of the pie. host: june, republican, nashville, tennessee. caller: that was very refreshing to hear some common sense from someone in massachusetts. i wanted to say that on this economic issue, when the tax cuts that bush imposed, proposed in 2001, when they expire next year, if you think that things are bad now, just

wait. think things are bad for small business right now, just wait. i own a small business and looking at the prospect of having to lay off two good people that i do not want to lay off. host: do you have any other options? caller: absolutely not. i they pay into a fund for their unemployment. i do not want to lay them off. when 2011 comes, frankly there is going to be, and i do not mean to be rude, but held to pay. the reason that some democrats are saying that we should go ahead and extend the tax cuts, you know, like the lady said from massachusetts, and i am stunned because i cannot believe i heard someone from massachusetts say that we might

need to extend tax cuts. if things do not improve very quickly and we keep going the way that we are going, there will not be any small medium businesses. there will only be corporations. host: looking at a comment from twitter, "when you say to cut the wages of the owners, that is us." portland, ore., republican line, good morning. caller: not all republicans are in favor of offshore in jobs. it was bill clinton, a democratic president that pushed through nafta up, giving most favored nation status to china. many republicans out there rejected this free trade stuff,

that is the pressure on the wages, they are paying near slave wages in china. we cannot compete with that? american labor should not have to compete with near slave labor. republicans support federal wages for american labor. host: coming up next we will be talking with john boyd, founder and president of the national black caucus association. we will talk about what is being done to settle those cases. we will be right back. ♪

♪ >> this week, the senate is expected to confirm elena kagan as the next supreme court justice. you can also see how your senators are planning to vote and follow the process c- span.orgk. agan -- c-span.org/kagan. >> this month marks the 20th anniversary of the first gulf war. look back at the key players and events that became desert storm. every program since 1987, watch what you want, when you want.

>> c-span programming, politics, books, history, available any time in the baltimore washington area, on satellite radio, on your iphone and ipad, on-line around the world on c-span.org, and now listen to c-span radio on your phone, available any time. just call 202-626-8888. it is free, but check with your phone provider for any additional charges. >> "washington journal" continues. host: john boyd is the founder and president of the national black former association. we wanted to have you on today to talk about the latest

congressional actions regarding this settlement for this but -- against discrimination. guest: it was discrimination against our nation's black farmers when they were taking back farm ownership loans, farm equipment loans, black farmers were just shut out of these programs. many filed complaints with the agriculture department of discrimination. the office of civil rights closed in 1997. we have filed lawsuits in different states and were not successful. judge freemen in 1997, where

9000 black farmers were closed out and thousands of cases were filed and gathering years of dust. they found out about the lawsuit to late. 74,000 black farmers were recalled, 10,000 or so came later, so there is a total of about 80,000 that will go through the pending litigation we have now. host: the initial settlement was reached but there were these people that did not know it was going on. they had wanted to get involved in the process. guest: there was no one working in the office to make it clear to anyone. in february our recent agreement

with the department of agriculture, there was $100 million in the farm bill. senator obama, president obama sponsor that legislation, which allowed those late filers to have the cases heard based on merit. since that time we have struggled with the congressional black caucus, securing bills that passed, but we have not been able to get a bill out of the senate. it looks like the house has really divided republicans and democrats. host: some of the latest news from "cq," "harry reid has postponed a request for unanimous consent to sever

racial discrimination plans against documents of federal mismanagement. harry reid plan to ask for approval of the sediment on monday, that they got caught in a legislative domino effect. that he plans to seek unanimous consent later this week for a approved settlement of $1.5 million, which he has packaged into a stand-alone bill." caller: i had hoped to get a vote later this week. this is a unanimous consent vote.

we actually owe that to the black farmers. i started my campaign 26 years ago, saying the same thing i said 26 years ago, so there is something wrong with that. host: tell us about the kind of farming the you do. guest: my mother's father was a farmer, my father's car was a sharecropper. i was raised on a farm when i began to do business with the usda in the early 1980's, i thought they had a personal problem with me, but it turned out to be a far greater problem in that community. nothing was ever done as far as

penalties of finding them guilty. they threw my loan application in the trash can during a loan interview. this is the kind of discrimination that they received on wednesday, so black farmers renamed it black wednesday. going down to the worst discriminatory treatment that we had received, this settlement will not put them back in business, but they will be able to use this response to harvest on time, looking at the disparaging treatment in the program whereby farmers and the

environmental working group reported that $200 was the average subsidy for a black former, receiving $1 million average. we have wide, disparate figures. host: looking at the numbers, 32,000 u.s. african-american farmers today, "in 1920 they own one out of seven farms, and today it is one out of 100th." a big change in the numbers. guest: we have lost a lot of land. we are probably the only race of people that do not produce enough food to feed ourselves

per-capita. we have a lot of issues facing us. by doing this settlement it will not change what happened in the past, but it would be a step in the right direction for mending fences between black farmers in usda. their last federal arm in this country to integrate, they have filed lawsuits to prevent black people from coming to work. that was the reason it was called last plantation. we have had a lot of hurdles and reports for investigation after investigation. to the people watching this morning, this is not about proving the case. we have a judgment against the federal government's the you have not been able to collect on. the president says that he supports settlement, the

agriculture secretary and folks in congress say that they are not for this issue, but we cannot seem to get a bailout of the senate and that is our real problem. host: cornelius is calling on the democratic line. good morning. caller: why would they do that? these people have been going on for years and years without getting any kind of settlement. i hope that president obama of its into the situation. some people think that he is helping out black people. something should have been done by this years ago. guest: he is right.

at first when we heard this i thought it would be over and done with. host: part of the initial settlement? quest yes. we had our protest in washington last year with are struggling constituency. host: you rode a mule from your farm to washington? guest: 17 days, i slept in a wagon. not because i had to, but i wanted to make a point to bring attention to this issue. the caller is right, the president sponsored the bill in the senate. we are questioning his support. we need action, we needed now. and we need this bill in the senate. so the black farmers can get on with their lives. host: missouri, ralph, democratic line. welcome, please turn down your television.

caller: good morning -- [feedback] can you hear me? host: turn down your television and go ahead. caller: 1985, my father died, he was a bail bondsman and a farmer. the clerk record that he was denied -- he denied me might trust fund money in the farm. the man appointed as administrator had to be relieved of those duties because he would not carry them out. this clerk blocked me from getting my trust fund that my father had left me to form the farm. i got a nun -- i got the naacp president to approach to about it and say that it went downhill from there. i discovered $18,000 missing from the bank. i had written letters to the

association that mr. boyd is affiliated with. i am calling today to bring attention to republicans and democrats. this issue needs to be settled. host: -- guest: we appreciate those comments, i would ask you to go to our website and get on our e-mail list so that even get updates on the issue and what is going on with the black farmers. if he provides contact information i will try to see what happened with that situation. host: tell us about who the original folks were involved in this? guest: timothy preferred from -- pickford from north carolina, many of the original people that started this movement have has done.

all people that started out with us in the movement, they are now dead. one of the issues i wanted to bring up on the show, these black farmers are dying waiting for justice. fighting in congress on the issue that we have proven their case, we have the judgment and a bill that we cannot cash, that we cannot elect don. this is the issue of right and wrong and congress needs to help was right the wrong. host: georgia, republican line. caller: good morning. how are you? i have a few questions. i know that a lot of the support for president clinton came from

the black congress. now the support is coming from -- for president obama. is this settlement why you put obama in the white house? is this the payback you get? i know that clinton, the first black president, gave you $1 million on the settlement. now you are suing bright bar. we did not do it. we did4

understand all the history, one of the first people to introduce the bill. in the senate was senator grassley, who has been a very good friend to the black farmers. so i know he is working with and has patched leadership to try to make this happen. i've met with senator reed various times to try to make this happen. somewhere we need to break the gridlock between republicans and democrats and try to work together for the betterment of the american people. >>

host: tell us how the various administrations have handled this. guest: well, i've met with every president since jimmy carter about the black farmers issue. and president clinton's office was always open to the black farmers. we had various meetings with him. 4 edid commit in that meeting in 1997 in december to set the case. and he did. the settlement is not perfect. the settlement that we have today is not perfect. but what i am here today to say is we need to make this settlement whole so the black farmers can get on with their lives. i've had several meetings with president bush. we didn't get a settlement with president bush, but this has been a long battle with black farmers. i want to say that. we're tired. we're tired, and the struggle has been so long and there's so

much pain and suffering that's taken place. other minority groups that have complained about these situations, native americans, hispanics, women, all these cases need to be resolved but the discrimination against black farmers is so purr vasive that it's not argueible at this point. host: sand doctor from the independent line. good morning. >> caller: with all due respect, yes, i don't understand why the gentleman is saying that he needs to get the money. because you did receive a payment. you all were nade full. what happened is some of the farmers missed the decline to receive money from the settlement. another set of funds was put aside after the fact, politically so that those farmers could get the money. that's what you're trying to get. but you already did receive money from the settlement. guest: right.

and let me be real clear. when she stays gentlemen, i stand personally to gain nothing from this. host: when the late fileers came you said i'm going to take it upon myself and start this organization? guest: well, we started the organization way before the actual first settlement. but the point of the matter is the black farmers were discriminated against. we now have a law in place saying these farmers should have their cases heard based on their merit. i just want to go on record saying this is not about me. this is at or about farmers that are black and elderly. one of the reasons why i came to take the settlement is because of the conditions of the black farmers who are now older. and i saw the faces and heard the pain in their voice about

what happened to them. and one of the furems i went to and john bonner right here in virginia he would call me at least once a week saying when are we going to get our settlement? when i spoke at his funeral, that's a very difficult thing to say to think these farmers died waiting for their settlement, and today it squst hasn't happened for us. host: and your website black farmers. john boyd the founder and president of the national black farmers association. looking at this from ellen ferguson looking at what progress is going on in the senate, it gives us a refresher of what was going on in this case. it says in february it was announced an outgrowth of the pigford versus glickman lawsuit that ch claimed that between 1983 and 1997 the department of

denied farm loans to and service to black farmers. the original case was settled back in 1999, but an estimated 74,000 farmers missed the decline for filing their complaints. the february agreement was designed to address those claims. >> yes. guest: yes. and this is an issue where you even hear it raised once or twice a week at the president's news conferences where they have angst about this. so i know that the issue is at the high es level, and we have had a few meetings with the white house, but we're at the point where we're just running out of time. we have an august 13 decline in the agreement and we need the senate to pass the bill today. we need support of the united

states con census to vote. that means we need 100%. not one person can vote against it, or else we don't have a deal. so we need republicans and democrats to get onboard and, the most frustrating part of this is when you hear in these meetings, we support your cause and the farmers getting rest constitution and when you see the votes and see others are voting against it because the bill is too big, the -- it's attached to the wrong bill and so we're caught up in a fight bigger than the black farmers that's one reason i pushed to for a free-standing bill. so hopefully some time today we'll be able to bring some good news to the black farmers and say this thing has finally passed, and we'll be off to try to settle some of these cases. >> the senate would approve

$1.15 billion to black farmers and $3.5 to farmers of american indians the ongoing case of the thraut recently got wrapped up the interior department reach and agreement in a class action lawsuit over the agencies actions created under an 1987 law that issued parsals of land but did not allow them to control how the land was used. the case has been in the courts since 1996. let's go to timothy, democrats line. welcome. caller: how are you? guest: hello. caller: my name is timothy, and i'm a disabled veteran. i own 280 acres of farmland, and in little rock, arkansas, that my father had left me. what happened was is that i own various. there was a little house, a

plot and then there was the 280 acres. and what happened was they took that house that i let go and then they switched the deed to it to the 280 acres and they stole my land that way, and i went down there with the little shot guns and suspenders, and i mean, you can't talk to nobody, because it's so countryized. there's no organization, and the govern's always out playing golf. around i mean, it's like going back into the 1960's of slavery or whatever the way they treated you in the courthouse, eevepbd though they stole the land, they set up the money for us, and we still had the mineral rights and all the rest of that to it. but what happened was that when we went to go claim the money that they still set aside for

us, they said it was for another cudsen, so we brought the cousin in and they said it was for another cousin and we brought that cousin in. so they just took the land and something that's going on down there, and the civil rights workers are investigating and all but attention need to be not only brought to this, but ever since the republicans have been in office they've been closing cases and hiding them and these cases need to be open and brought to the public attention. >> yes. and i agree with the caller. guest: we've lost so much land through that kind of discrimination where the heir to the land and taxed land and illegal forclosures by the government. so we just lost so much land takeover years. i don't think we're going to get the land back, and that was one of the reasons why we were pushing so hard under settlement for those farmers who are not farming now, this

would bring some comfortable years in their later life and for the black farmers that are still farming, they would be able to plant their crops in time and get farm 3r5eu9ing funds where they clearly haven't been receiving funds where wherein it takes 387 days to process a farmer's a black farmers known request and 200 for a white farmers known question, so we have had much that has led to a loss of acreage of land for black farmers. host: bobby wilson. caller: not only is this a crime. this is a sin. this is a sin before god that you have republicans discriminating against black farmers the way they doing, and holding these same people in office at these royal communities agricultural

outlets that november money to the farmers. some of these people are still holding office in these rural commuents. we need to find some of these people, change the whole system around, and i'm urging all my african-american republicans to change parties. because this is all parties involved in this. and i will refuse to be a republican and stand by and see my african-american farmers go [inaudible] guest: yes. and bobby wilson is right. he seems to be very familiar with the issue. our numbers will be facing extinction if we don't start taking part in these federal programs. and when i spoke earlier about the sub city programs that the black farmers are extinct from already. operating loans. we need the same type of loans white farmers receive on time.

farming is time sensitive. if you don't plant your crops on time, you will not get the maximum harvest. when the government lends you money, and they lend it three or four months late, it's almost impossible for you to get the maximum harvest you're going to need to pay your loans back. >> we have a comment from 3/4 that your bill would probably sail through if there was nothing attached to it. do you have criticisms for the democrats since they are in the majority. guest: well, i met with senator reed. i think he's sincere. i would not say that. i would say i have frustrations. i'm frustrated, because month after month continues to go by, and we have all of these time frames where we have to meet within the settlement agreement, and it's hard to keep all of the parties together.

we have over 40 law firms that are involved representing the black farmers. we have the government and the department of justice. all these play a part in the settlement agreement, then we have to find money in the senate, which has been frustrating for us. i bought three pair of shoes walking up and down the halls of congress. and it's time for congress to put aside its political differences and come together and do the right thing for black farmers. sending us home from a recess saying we're going to try again after we come back from a vacation. the black farmers don't have a vacation. we've been waiting for this settlement. we want congress to act, and we want them to act today. caller: i'm fay bellamy paul, and i'm very pleased to have hear this coming on. the lady from the republican

party who called president clinton black, and sometimes the ignorance of people is so appalling that it makes your head hurt. the second thing i'd like to mention is mrs. sure regard, i think this is an opportunity point out that one african-american woman was fired in probably less than 2 hours for a comment she supposedly made yet white people are working in usda for years and years and years discriminating against african-americans and others and not one white person has been fired. thank you. guest: and i agree with that caller. this is a time when this issue came up, it was the perfect opportunity for the country to start healing around coming together on race relations and the perfect opportunity to have that conversation, and i think the call from action should come from the person in charge, which is the president. the president should reach out to our country and say this is a time to have a full blown

discussion on race and how we can begin to understand one another's culture. and i want to commend shirley sherrod if she's watching. because she really stood out as someone who made a difference not just for black people, but for america. she was willing bury her past around reach out to help this farmer. and that's what happens in this country. she turned a negative into a positive, and i think if more people could take a page from shirley sherrod and say hey, i'm willing to put aside the past and move on. and that's what the black farmers want to do. we want to turn the page you continue to hear in the press where this discrimination took place and the black farmers were shut out of all these programs. the only way to do that is to put this settlement out there and put it on the table and say the settlement is not perfect.

what happened in the past is not perfect, but we want to mend fences. it will send a message to the black farmers that they are now welcome again at the department of agricultures. but right now the black farmers have a sense of distrust saying why are they promoting programs when they refuse to pay this settlement? so we're going to have meet gs where we begin to talk about other programs, but the issue that continues to resurface is mr. john, why can't we get a settlement? we are here, and one of the things that i do want to say, people ask me all the time, don't you get tired? absolutely. but we are not going to give up the fight until this is done. >> and you're still farming? guest: i know my father's watching today, and he's at home, holding down the fort,

and i'm at liberty to have some of the best family and some of the best parents in the world. my father brought me up right and taught us right from wrong and how to work. and today he is still the first one to say hey, come oranges you ready to go to the work? i said dad we set it would case with the black farmers and the department of agriculture, and he said that's real good, but when are you coming home? because we got to move the hay to feed the cows? that's the upbringing i had, so i'm at liberty to have had some of the best parents in the world. host: hi walter. republicans line. caller: good morning. what i see here, and i come from a rural area which is different than most of the farmers or people who called in this morning talking to y'all. years ago, i'm 65. but years ago when i was a

young man, this county i live in had literally thousands of farmers. and today there's probably in the county, probably no more than 100 farmers in all. i'm talking about that make their total living on a farm. well, you know, that's because of the situation in our history. farming has just gone out of the small community. farmers in general have lost out. now, what i see here this this conversation this morning, i see what i've been seeing for many yearts and that is this man said a while ago that he had received his settlement years ago, but he is there fighting for other people, well when you look deep enough, c-span and you're going to find out this man has family members that are on the docket to receive more money. this go round. so whenever you yield in to people, especially minority

groups who have issues with our country, they come in and they begin to say well, you know, we suffered for this reason or that reason. well, even if they get a settlement like they did earlier, they stim want more later on. so this breeds more greedyness all the time. host: let's leave it there. i don't know why you would focus in on minorities it's something that you if you feel is a character trait might be a -- but yes, who would benefit from this? do you have family members involved? >> guest: well, i don't have family members that would benefit but we were born to this country in chains and shackals and on ships and we went from slaste to share cropers and many were able to buy their farms and old land after the civil war, but to say they just come here, i mean,

blacks certainly paid their dues here in this country. we helped build the city that we sit in today, washington, d.c., and the black farmers were mistreated. and for the most part black people were mistreated in slavery. so we have a history that that is not something to be proud of. but the black farmers are willing to bury that hatchet and say ok, these things happen. but we want to take part now in federal programs and work with the obama administration, and i would like to meet with the president. one of the things that i've been saying on this campaign is we really need to sit down, and i would like to sit down with the president to address some of the issues. just like what this caller is calling in. it still shows that we have racial problems in this country that we have not gotten over. and i would like to bring those types of issues to the president and say what can we do to make it better between

blacks and whites and hispanics and whites and all of these cultures that you can hear from some of the callers that we still have some issues that we need to get addressed. host: kathleen on the democrats line in fort lauderdale. caller: good morning. guest: good morning. caller: i just have a comment. are white people brought african-americans over here for one reason and one reason only, and that is to enslave them and oppress them. and i am so sick and tired of black african-americans making excuses for the oppression that was done. stop making excuses. you know, your eyes are wandering. you don't sound like my great

grandfather sound. stop making excuses. they oppressed us. they enslaved us. what are we going to do about it? guest: well, i thought i addressed that in my other statement. i did touch on slavery and the effects it had on blacks in this country. but do we sit there and continue to dwell on that in the past? or do we take on the issue we have in front of us today? which is trying to get the bill through in the senate. that's our issue and that's the issue i would like to come back to. i can't change the past and some mighty ugly things certainly did happen there. but we have a bill pending in congress that certainly would help rectify and build some confidence between what happened with the black farmers and the united states department of agriculture, and i'm encouraging today all the senators republicans and democrats to look past their

political differences and vote yes for the u.c. bill. >> and we have the opportunity to do that today. host: a reminder to our viewers and listeners, we're specifically talking about the settlement that was between the black farmers and the usda. and this was called the pig ford case. -- the pigford case. and this would specifically address what happened with the usda and the charges that it discriminated against african-american farmers on the base of -- on the basis of race, which is in violation of federal law. republican line in jacksonville? caller: good morning mr. boyd can i ask you a question do you have an email address or something like that? guest: yes, go to blackfarmers.org. caller: i have a question, and

this -- i don't know whether this is discrimination -- i'm not into that. i have a small farm, my sisters and i -- real quickly, and in georgia. and 62-63 acres of land was left for us to us from our great, great grandfather, but he left it in divisions like you have a partial, partial for each heir, but some of the heirs are dead, so forth and so on and we're trying to contact all of the generational kids from there, and we've done that, and we've consulted several attorneys there around the areas of the little noun georgia county, emanuel county, and we cannot seem get an attorney, because we're vouppeded with this plot of land we have by the other color of, you know what i mean? we're surrounded, and they've been trying to see if we would

stop paying the taxes so they can probably take over the property, the land, but we're trying to get attorneys to helptous get this land equitable insured so that we can own the land. my sisters and i. host: mr. -- guest: i invite you to go to our farmers blackfarmers.org and put in your email address so we can help the caller. that's something that that's a top priority with the national black farmers association and that is land retension. and we want to work with the caller to make sure that caller keeps that land in their family. so i want to work with you to do that. host: democrats line langley park, maryland. caller: thank you. good morning. i want to praise you. i support you. but really hurts my soul is to they're terrible, nasty remarks

from people who don't even know, who never walked a mile or an inch in a black farmer's shoes. you know, many of these farmers, lynnwood, i can't think of his name. guest: lynnwood broin. caller: let's not mix this up with the shirley sherrod incident. but this issue has been going on long before this. , long before any of this. i can remember when mike espy, he didn't behave himself, so he got ran out. another thing, too, it saddenings me that african-americans that are so urbanized don't even have a clue as to what is going on around us, because once these cities start to deteriorate, which they are, imagine how many people are going to try to run back to these rural areas, and these are the only things we have left. and i am so sick of hearing

about people criticizing this, and making disparaging remarks only because they hear the word black. that's a only reason the hair raises on the back of your head. if they could take the roof off of the agriculture department, it would explode with fair to in brim stone, this is one of the most despicable acts of racial discrimination in my 53 years. guest: i agree, caller. the department of agriculture certainly has a bad name with black farmers and the way they treated black farmers in this country. host: have you seen that improve? guest: well, i think that i did have a conversation with secretary -- late yesterday amp. i do think that they are trying. i think they are trying. but until we are able to put this settlement behind us, i think the settlement is going to keep resurfacing until this

is done, because by putting the settlement in place, it shows that t black farmers that the government is for real about working with them, and it's not just more of the same, because i called a farmer and we had a conference call after one of the bills failed in the senate. it's failed six times so far, and the farmer said why can't you just tell the press that we don't have our money? who wouldn't that you understand? and we wouldn't be treated well and they don't understand the fact that we've been attached to the tax extenders bill, the war bill, the fema bill. they don't understand all of that. they see it as more delays and more denies from the government and congress about not wanting to help them. but that's why i want to take advantage of this time today and for all of the members of the senate that are watching. do the right thing for the

black farmers. put aside your political differences and vote yes. we have a free-standing bill. it's paid for. it has offsets and for the democrats who say some of the republicans don't want to work, there's senator grassley who i think will come up with some type of compromise to work on a bill, so i'm urging the republicans to work together with the democrats and the democrats to work together with the republicans so that the black farmers can actually receive their funds. host: independent line? caller: am i on there? host: you are. welcome, john. caller: what really upsets me. my mother was native american. nobody's concerned about them. all i hear is blacks. native american lands were took from them. and you know, to just took from them, then the blacks crying, crying. and look to me like the

[inaudible] host: i didn't catch the last comment there. but i do want to point out the last thing, this is tied in with the cobell settlement. guest: let me just touch on the other settlement. the cobell settlement and the land trust and oil that was taken off this land and put into trust accounts where the indians never received it. there's the case which is two different things. you see it in the press as indian farmers. the case with them is not the indian farmers case. that is an hispanic case garcia, there's a women's case called the love case. i support resolution of all of those cases. no question about it. i'm for fairness and quality for everybody. but if you're -- if you fought for something for 26 years, and

you see that it hasn't transpired yet, it's frustrating to listen to some of the callers and not knowing that they don't know all of the facts in the case. and they don't know a whole lot about me from listening to the callers. they hear me call for action for the native americans and hispanics, the women. but we need to put this behind us, and it goes to the higher caller when i spoke about today with we desperately need to have a conversation on race in this country so we can get all these issues out on the table. and as i listen to these callers, it teaches me that we have such a long way to go in this country. host: asking about white farmers. you're certainly not opposed to working with white farm centers >> no. guest: early on in the movement, the issue was small farmers. as we move toward federal

court, the issue became black farmers and all of the discrimination that transpired. we're merely pushing for a resolution of the case that's taken too long. and if the courts and congress and the previous administrations have proved -- have moved to settle these things a long time ago, i wouldn't be sitting here today. and if there's not a problem with the government, why is there a love case and a garcia case? and a keep siegel your way, the c-span networks, now available in more than 100 million homes created by cable, provided as a public service. "washington journal" continues. host: alfonso aguilar is executive director of the latino partnership for conservative principles. thank you for being with us. guest: thank you for having me. it's a pleasure to be here. host: where does the hispanic community fit into the

republican party? guest: well, they are a natural constituency. they are pro life, pro traditional marriage, very entrepreneurial. hispanic businesses are growing three times as fast as the national average. and if you think about it, latino immigrants come to the united states, leaving their home countries where they've seen state-run economies, big government, and they are coming here because of our system of limited government and opportunities and freedom that is allow them to open businesses and be entrepreneurial. so they come here for less government, not more government. so frankly, i think they are a natural constituency for the conservative movement. sadly, the conservative movement has not been consistent in reaching out to latinos and frankly in the past four years the rhetoric from some members of the g.o.p. has been down right nasty. and has antagonized many

latinos but, i think it's time spupt but knew the latino community was a natural constituency for the republican party and sought to reach out to them and gain their votes. you pointed out some aspects that you say associate the latino community at large with conservative values saying they are defined by faith and family and that's why they say abortion should be illegal and marriage should be between a man and a woman. guest: over 56% of latinos believe abortion should be illegal. when it comes to tra dibble -- traditional marriage. 56%-57% believe marriage should be between a man and woman. again, i think ronald reagan understood this. what we should clearly they are inherently conservative.

traditionally they voted for the democrats, because the democrats have knocked on their door. so it's a matter of achieving a proper alignment between latino community and the political movement. they are inherently conservative. they need to realize that. and we as conservatives need to reach out to them and make the case. not only reach out to them and say vote republican but slain why. the latino community is growing dramatically. they are t become a viable unit, this is about advancing an agenda and prls. if you want to advance the conservative cause, you need to reach out to latinos. again, they are the largest minority and fastest-growing minority, and you cannot win elections and advance these issues without their support. the great thing again is that they are inherently conservative. host: charlotte, north carolina. caller: yes. good morning.

is it that you think we should give legal status to all the latinos, sir? guest: well. let's recognize that not all undocumented immigrants are latinos. look, i believe that we need our organization has come out with a five-point approach. we need to strengthen border security. deploy all of our assetsess to basically seal the border. we have a situation of violence, drug trafficking. we want to make sure that we have control over borders. and we need to enforce immigration law domestically but prioritize our enforcement efforts to go after undocumented activity and we do believe the legalization, not amnesty which is something discussed in a a superofficial way. every time you say you're for

legalization people say you're for amnesty. people would have to come forward, pay a fine, perhaps even do community service, but most law enforcement experts will tell you it's impossible to deport all undocumented immigrants and finally we need a guest-worker program that allows and facile tates foreign workers to come into the country. i think to resolve the immigration issue, we have to recognize that our economy has a demand for foreign workers to do jobs americans don't want or jobs that there's no americans of working age to do it. finally, we need to promote pate out i can assimilation and encourage immigrants to learn our language and history and crisks. enent was to guarantee full citizenship and equality to every american born in the united states, obviously that was right after the civil war, and the congress wanted to make

sure that every african-american was recognized as a full citizen. the only groups excluded at that time were native americans born in sovereign tribal nations and the children of diplomats who were considered to be born in separate political communities or collectives. at that time there were no undocumented immigrants. so for us to change our constitutional tradition and say that people born here are not necessarily americans that, would go against most of the basic principals our country stappeds for. and let me tell you, it would have solved the immigration issue. i think that the unions don't want to see more guest workers, because they are the ones that argue that they are taking away american jobs. that is just factly not right. we need foreign workforce, because frankly, we don't have

enough americans of working age to do those jobs. we need to facilitate that legal flofmente host: an a.p. story by ben, par host: on the republicans line, good morning. caller: hello. good morning. can you hear me? host: i can, thank you. caller: i have a -- i am a caller whose been watching c-span and looking at the size of the issues, and i'm not sure if i have seen you before on the program. i'm so glad that you have come here to basically clarify the conservative view. i'm a republican. i voted for reagan and for the bushes. and i understand that there are demographic situations here. i'm in florida, and there's arizona and washington state, there's a lot of guest worker programs that i'm familiar with in california and washington

state and oregon. but unfortunately, things have changed now, and you know this. we have an element of c actually passed the law that it passed on immigration. there is frustration, and there's no doubt that there's a very small minority of undocumented immigrants that are involved in criminal activity. but i think that we should go after the criminals, after the drug trafficers, and not after good, hard-working people, just because they are undocumented immigrants. you're not going to reduce restore an element of confrontation and using the arizona law to say republicans are anti-hispanic or anti-immigration. 4 that's a mistake because they are assuming latinos are so gullible that they are going to assume every republican is anti-hispanic or anti- immigrantt.

carly fiorina, there you have a candidate polling well among latinos and has a good position on immigration. so yes, arizona has had a negative impact, but i suppose is going to have more of a negative impact were those candidates staufrpblly against immigration. . . i italian and father is a costa rican. when your parents are immigrants, you get an appreciation for america, the freedoms and liberties that we have in this country. also, having been born in puerto rico, a territory of the united states where u.s. citizens -- we are u.s. citizens but we don't have awful civil and political rights. we cannot vote for -- we do not have awful symbol of political rights. we cannot for -- do not have

full civil or political rights. we cannot vote for president. host: let's hear from our caller in mississippi. caller: good morning. circumstances and arguments so that the majority of republicans can come forward and say that we are conservatives and are for immigration like ronald reagan was. i do not want to say that republicans are anti-hispanic and obama is per-hispanic, is the current president. and that is why i'm talking about obama. let's not assume that he is for immigration reform is because he says he is for immigration reform. he has not said anything about a guest worker program. immigration reform without a guest worker program is not immigration reform it. frankly, i do not think he is really for immigration reform. host: nelson, a republican line,

florida. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i myself into this country in 1963, became a citizen -- i myself came to this workers, wht have you. plus you have the person here who is illegal and he is breaking the law even though he is just trying to get a better life. i have friends who are documented citizens. the constitution -- the issue for citizens is people for here and documented. guest: we have a dysfunctional immigration system that we need to fix. i believe in the world of the w, one of the most important principle --

conservatives. they are nationalists and restrictionists who do not see more workers come into the country. host: former alaska gov. sarah palin, arguably a leader in the republican movement now, make comments on fox news that got a lot of attention, that arizona governor jan brewer has the cojones to look out for americans. what do you make of that? guest: needless to say, that is a word in spanish that you just do not say, but it is an idiomatic expression in english. we need to deploy assets, all the assets that we have at our disposal, to thede california ag to mexico. -- shutting down operations in california and they are going to mexico. let's fix the system, let's allow employers to get foreign workers. but again, it is not -- they are

not cheating the system. the majority of employers and businesses in the u.s. are hard- working and honest, and they want to grow the economy. but we cannot if we do not have the work force to grow it. host: centerville, virginia, republican caller. good morning. caller: three quick points. the first one is that i read an article in "the washington post" about a month ago about a chinese service that brings tony's folks here -- brings chinese folks here and allows their child to be born here and then they become an american citizen and then they take them home. that is a perfect example of how broken things are. when you come from another country, you come here and go shopping, set up an opportuni -e things we have to embraces the concept of circular migration, allowing workers to come in with

a biometric card, which would allow them, once they are done with their work, to go back to their country and then come back here when they are needed. many don't want to remain in the united states. that is a misperception, that they want to come here to stay. that is why we want a market- based system that can adjust to the needs of the economy. we are supposedly recovering from recession, but unemployment is still very high, almost 10%. obviously, the demand for work is going to go down. we have seen at the level ofhe s at all the immigrants in this country, they fired me, i lost my job, but the whole company is nothing but mexicans now. that is with all the landscaping done here in florida. guest: again, that is a very

good, valid point, but that is one additional reason for creating a mechanism, a guest worker program, that allows people to come in legally so that they can be hired at appropriate, prevailing wages. a first lady michelle obama has taken their data sasha to spain. -- daughter sasha to spain. their other daughter is at summer camp. the president will head home to chicago for a birthday celebration with friends. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> this week, the senate is expected to confirm elena kagan as the next supreme court justice. the debate and vote on it c- span2. you can see how your senators are planning to vote, and follow the entire process, at the c- span confirmation hub, c-

span.org/kagan. >> we are not ruling any options in, but we are not ruling any options out. >> this month marks the 20th anniversary of the beginning of the first gulf war. watch the key players in defense online, a free, at the c-span video library. watch what you want, when you want. >> "washington journal" continues. s that specifically affect health savings accounts. one of them is, as you said, if you want to spend money in your account on the medication, right now you can do that tax-free. under the new law, if you spend it on medication without prescription from a doctor, which sounds a little odd, almost the doctor recommends it -- unless the doctor recommends

it, then it is not tax-free, and you have to pay taxes on the money that you use to purchase those medications and a 10% penalty. that is a non-medical withdrawal but there is already a 10% penalty on non-medical withdrawals on held savings accounts. -- health savings accounts. it increases the penalty on a limit on claims.drawal the administration has estimated that premiums will go up 7% or more if you change your plan, a switch from one carrier to another, or try to increase your deductible to respond to the higher premiums, you will lose what the administration ca lls the grandfather status. if you lose that, you are subject to a lot more mandates. you ought to purchase of first dollar coverage for preventive care -- you have to purchase

first dollar coverage for preventive care. there are private estimates that say it3 percentage pointsaffords $4,000 a year, that is 8% of your income. you will be facing the penalty if you do not comply with the mandate. it's the least expensive plan confined is $5,000 -- if the least expensive plan you can find is $5,000, and you are exempt from that penalty. a lot of things push premiums over that threshold. one of them is age, another is where you live, another is smoking status. let's say that you of got -- you have got -- you and your friend live in the same income and have the same zip code, but your friend is 10 years older than you, and the insurance companies cannot charge premiums based on age -- if he is 10 years old and

new, you have to pay the penalty and your friend does not or if he is the same age as you and he contributions exceed 8% of their income, household income -- there is a precarious situation employers find themselves in. because household income is one of the criteria, the employer will be hit with tens of thousands of dollars in penalties -- employers are not going to know when it will be hit by these penalties. if you have an employee whose mother-in-law moves in, and there is an additional person in his household, that brings down his house will income as a percentage of the federal poverty level to the point where they would be eligible for subsidies on these exchanges, then that employer coverage and waiting until they get sick, paying the penalty, and waiting until they are sick

to be wide coverage -- to buy coverage. over time, a family of a fort that does this five years in a row without much in -- a family of four let us this five years in a row without much in the way of issues can save a lot. host: michelle is in massachusetts and is uninsured. caller: i came off of carper in march of this year. --guest: i have a lot of concers with the public option. if we allow people to choose from not just private health plans, but a government plastique, consumers will benefit -- but a government plan, consumers will benefit -- the problem with that is that government insurers will enjoy

benefits that private insurers will not. host: our guest, michael cannon, is with the cato institute, and was previously a policy analyst under chairman larry craig. insured line, maryland. caller: good morning. how are you all this money? you mentioned the -- a loss for the insurer. they dump them on to the competitors. host: virginia, welcome. caller: callers tell their personal stories on the line. you talked a lot about numbers and economics and i think that is really important, but there is a component that has to do with people's health and the

lives and their families. one of the ottoman a problems with the system is that it is -- one of the fundamental problems with the system is that it is not sure whether it is a capitalist system where there will be a house and have nots -- be haves and have nots,, or whether a health care is our right that everybody has a degree of entitlement to. i find myself uninsured system,f those things are things that this caller really needs, like protections from premiums going up because of complications from pregnancy. host: george, insured caller, colorado. caller: good morning. excellent guest this morning. tricare recipient, i have been up for several years. i reivdo much better for

bringing down costs. as a student, at the individual mandate is really hard on me. i'm wondering if you could speak to the negative act of the individual mandate specifically on young people and students. guest: to understand the insura. it would force young people to take a bad deal. there is an estimate that suggest that premiums for a people could go up 17% 30%, -- that premiums for healthy people could go up 17%, 30%, 50%, and this law. i am not sure that the individual mandate is really going to even do what supporters hope it will do, which as forced younger people to pay higher premiums to subdi let's take mof this situation. all we hear about is money, money, money.

let's talk about solving that is real. depending on who you are listening to, we will be adding anywhere from 20 million to 45 million people who are all the sudden -- or all of a sudden going to feel entitled to a visit to the doctor. 30 million more people -- 30,000 doctors that we don't have right now. you talk about the doctor bills you had with your son and a lady about hers. you will not evenfrom palm beach, florida. caller: that sounds like a juxtaposition, or -- what is the word i'm looking for -- contradiction. who is framing this debate? assurance says that you are assured care by a compassionate entity, i.e. a physician, who is

trying to take care of you. when you get insurance into the ball game, we talk about millions of pencil pushers who say, well, i am an actuary, this person gets it, this person does not, etc. we're left with this mass of -- thisd medi