hospitalization or something -- they will send the bill to medicare, and you guys pick up. i am trying to figure out -- i have read the law, or part of it, i guess, and it says, when you reach age 65, or 60, i forget which it is, that medicare is primary. host: we will have to leave it there. can you answer that quickly? guest: sure. first of all, we are a not-for- profit organization. we are on the side of the beneficiaries working to improve the program. certainly in my be something for the inspector general. generally speaking, when you retire, even if you have coverage from a former employer, medicare is primary, in your retiree coverage is secondary. medicare should be paying first for your care.

in some cases, medicare is not primary. there have been some instances where an insurer that is primary is shifting the cost to medicare. certainly, that is something that we are interested in following up on, because we want to make sure that the right plan is paying. usually, medicare is primary for retirees. it sounds like you are a retiree, and it is appropriate to that medicare be primary, but once again, call 1-800-medicare and talk to them about this problem, and if they feel there is fraud involved, there is a special unit you can call to. hopefully that will be useful for you. host: joseph baker is the president of the medicare rights center. thanks for being with us. guest: my pleasure. thank you for having me. host: tomorrow we conclude the

health-care series and look at the impact of the law on estates. we will have two attorney general's on the program on both sides of the issue. thanks for joining us this morning. we will be back tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. eastern time. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] . . >> that is scheduled to start

at 10:30 eastern live here on c- span. a little bit later, the treasury department releases its annual social security and medicare trustees' report. timothy geithner, a poll this release, and kathleen sebelius will all comments. that is live at 11:00 eastern on our companion network, c-span3. back here on c-span, the state department is releasing its own report today, the focus is global terrorism. everything on that is scheduled at 12:30 eastern alive. the u.s. senate is in, continuing work on elena kagan's nomination to the supreme court. here is a look at our coverage. >> this week the senate is expected to confirm elena kagan. watch the debate and vote live on c-span2.

you can follow the entire process online at c- span.org/kagan. while we wait for the hearing on u.s. manufacturing, you were calls from this morning's " washington journal." with "the hill" newspaper is jordan fabian to talk about this legislation. how were they able to get the necessary votes to go forward? guest: susan collins and olympia snowe, they were able to adjust the provisions in the bill back. had been amenable to pass in legislation like state aid package. this is something right up their

alley. host: how are they paying for this legislation? guest: they are paying for it with several tax increases. that house republicans railed against in their statement. that will be a contentious issue when it comes before the house next week, especially whether and not to extend the bush tax cuts. it host: how will this work? they are providing aid to the states for medicaid payments to fill some budget gaps, so the states can then take the money they had for medicaid and put it other places. what is the formula like for states? guest: the reason why the coming back next week is the $10 billion education fund that is included. if this was not passed before the end of august, democrats said it would deprive thousands

of teachers in local jurisdictions. that is why they are coming back that is the urgent part of it. basically a lot of the school systems around the country are facing large budget deficits, meaning teachers will get laid off. host: $16 billion for medicaid budget holes and $10 billion for teachers. as every state get the same amount? guest: know, obviously it is based on need, -- noc -- no, obviously it is based on need. guest: what do you host: what happens next? guest: they were not able to get work done on the legislation when they were in washington, said that is why they have the emergency session.

host: house speaker nancy pelosi tweeted yesterday she is calling the house back. will every member be able to make it back or do some have different plans? -- that remains to be seen. democrats having multiple town hall events throughout their district. there are lawmakers who are having these events and have to rearrange their schedule. there are some that might be overseas. it remains to be seen whether a not they will all be able to get back in time. talking about 435 members. leaders will do whatever they can to get them back by tuesday. host: jordan fabian with "the hill" newspaper, thank you for your time. the house has been called back into session during the august

break a few times. back in 2005, for the katrina supplemental bill. 1999 -- and under the same scenario in 1980. michael on independent line. what do you think? should congress be sending states more aid? caller: yes, i am a little bit biased. i am a professor. but how i think giving aid to teacher is, because the children are the future are up -- of this country and we are in a technological age. you see apple and so on and the chinese, so i think it is a great investment for the country. host: would you personally benefit? caller: no, no, i am in a private university. but i would like to bring out one thing that they could pay for it. host: ok. caller: trump was on larry king,

which i later checked out. his quote was, he said, this oil shortage is a lie. there are tankers and the and all of the oceans worldwide. i checked it out, and it is true. the oil tanker rates are down. how you can save $100 billion to $200 billion is, this reporting on the oil inventory weekly based on what trump said and my research is just crazy because it shows 1 million-2 million barrels a day. host: how would you use this to pay for medicaid payments? caller: if you put the right number out, gasoline would drop

from $3 a gallon to $1.50, and that would put into the consumer's pocket another $100 billion to $200 billion. trump is right. it is a false number. host: later on in the program, 8:30 a.m., we will talk to admiral thad allen, getting an update from him on what is next tapping the oil line. new jersey. frank, republican line. state aid. $16 billion for medicaid payments and $10 billion for teachers. what do you think? caller: i am not against helping people out, but constantly giving the states all of these crutches to work with -- the problem is, we are in a bad time and people need to face the fact that people need to be laid off, they need to take furloughs, because people are simply taxed

to death. you can't even afford to live in your houses anywhere hardly because of the taxes. when this money it runs out, what happens next? where will leggett the next $26 billion from? this is all on the taxpayers' backs and we need to face the reality that these are the facts and people get laid off all the time and the problem is with the school teachers -- and i have not heard it much. even local police are taking layoffs now because they realize that the money is not there anymore and the teachers think the american people have and less money in their pockets, and it is just not that way and they need to face the fact, too, that they are vulnerable. they used to think they were never vulnerable and now they are because there is no more money for them to get. host: senate majority leader harry reid said this bill would

save 140,000 teacher jobs and also save jobs for firefighters, policeman, and other civil employees. "the washington post" says the aid package will not type -- close budgets in states. independence, missouri. you are the next phone call. you are on the air. caller: they should being -- i don't think they should be allocating that money, not until the start bringing home some of the troops from the bases overseas. start saving millions in the --

billions yearly for wars we can't afford. and then maybe we will be able to support teachers and police. but we can't do it all. i think we are trying to do more than what we are capable of, and i think that until we start drawing down these troops, stationed in germany, japan, and in a career, and bringing home troops from afghanistan and iraq, we can't do anything else. host: dave on the republican line, salisbury, maryland. caller: it is interesting that they are talking about another bail out. the stimulus package under obama has yet to produce any results. my wife is a teacher here in

maryland and she says they still have not used some of the things that were given to their school district, some computers, things like that. another $26 billion -- host: whose fault is it, according to your wife, but the stimulus has not been used? local officials, state government, federal government? guest: for example, some of the things that are using for only certain types of students, less than average students, whereas the hire students that are excelling are not allowed to use some of the products, so they get -- are in the back room and don't do what they are supposed to do. bailey more teachers out is basically adding more blocks in place. the better way to go about it,

like last couple of callers said, may be cut back on some of the teachers, we about the wisdom of teachers and those having failing classes, getting it -- we evaluate some of the teachers and those having failing classes, getting them out. it's a moving onto the political story on how this is being paid for. congressional budget office released tuesday night shows the revised bill would more than pay for itself, even reducing deficits by $1.37 billion the next decade. it added revenues of $9.7 billion chiefly from foreign tax credit reform, but chief of offset -- offsets coming from the spending side.

going back to the phone lines. eunice from the democratic line in the charlotte, north carolina. caller: thank you for taking my call. a two comments. with regard to medicaid, when the governors met in massachusetts one of the main concerns was the cost of medicaid breaking the state's backs. just one other reason to visit

the 14th amendment and anchor babies in regards to the cost of welfare and what it is going to our system. on the teacher's side, when we implemented the lottery in north carolina, it was for the children, it was for the teachers. i don't understand what the states are doing with the money. teachers, if they would, when they come back, are hired or rehired, if they would tell the children of what it is going to cost them 10 or 20 years from now, because that is what they need to be teaching. the deficit is not sustainable and it is not fair to the children. host: caller, pay attention here for a second. i will show you some of the debate from the senate floor yesterday, democratic was injured -- washington senator patty murray, addressing whether it is for teachers or the children. >> on this and and and where we have been trying to make sure that 130,000 teachers are not lost -- and this is not about the teachers union, this is about kids in the classroom, the

future of the united states of america. are we going to punish these is the event and give them less of an education because of the economic times? that does not make sense to me as a mom or a former teacher or united states centered repaired this is about making sure our kids are not hurt in this tough economic recession. it is at a time when the states are struggling with budget. it is a time we have told the we are trying to help them with a gap they have in medicaid spending. we went to our colleagues. they block the bill. we made them smaller. they said they were not paid for. we went back and worked hard and it is paid for now. yes, with all of this compromise, our republican colleagues of come to the floor to say, now have a new idea why they are opposing it -- we have not allowed states to have flexibility within their funding. host: republican in hampshire senator judd gregg also on the floor talking about why

republicans are opposed to the idea. >> why should the federal government be saying to the states, we are going to give you some money, but we are going to attach to this money a whole lot of strings, and a basic strings are these, unless you spend a heck of a lot more money, you are not going to get this money. and it does appear that it is focused on a special interest group, does it not, the teachers' unions. it appears that this is more or less a commitment to take care of this constituency out there at the expense, ironically, a lot of people who are employed in those states. we used the term multinational corporation around here like that is some sort of evil empire. i've got a few multinational corporations in new hampshire. i suspect you do in tennessee. and they employ people. and if you raise their taxes by

$10 billion, they are going to employ a lot less and the ongoing to send them overseas. we used to hear around here constantly about outsourcing jobs. this is a job outsource sir, this bill. host: part of the debate yesterday. the senate today takes up the legislation. a $26 billion in aid to the states. to been to c-span2 for our coverage. three votes. final vote expected as well. texas, jim on the republican line. your thoughts this morning. caller: of thank you. i did not believe we should be sending any more money to the states. i think the states ought to be able to take care of their own revenue generation. some of the other callers mentioned it is used -- issues, perhaps like medicaid, and the fact that illegal immigrants might consume a lot of that revenue. i think that is a little

overblown. but the other reasons to secure our border probably security. i think it is easier for anybody to make decisions for voting for or against some of these bills -- standalone bills, rather than loaded it with amendment after amendment to have everybody's special projects. i know a lot of people say, that is the way it works in washington. but i truly believe it is one of the problems and why things don't work well in washington. host: "the wall street journal" writes this morning about how the democrats were able to win over the two main senators.

democratic line, ellen no way. good morning. -- illinois. caller: good morning. i want to say that the problem is this deficit and everything that is going on is because poor and middle-class people in this country has gotten less. the problem is, poor and middle- class people are the ones who actually spend the money in all of the stores, the malls, and all of these things that all of these corporations hold.

so, you get more money to the poor and middle class, they will spend it. they will not go up to the stock market like the wealthy people. they put their money in the stock market to save wealth. you give more money to the poor and middle class and that will fuel the economy, which will create jobs. host: san diego, jeff on the republican line. caller: good morning. i would say the biggest problem is the people need to wake up and say how are we going to pay for all of this money. host: this legislation was paid fall -- paid for, they found offsets. caller: you know, i listen to this. i was a fannie mae investor and the government said they were adequately capitalized and it turned out they spent $200 billion. the credibility is missing. and the bottom line is, we are spending may want -- weigh more. we need to correct the situation

and realize that all politics is local and start taking control of the system. i am 80 -- tea party person, and i think all are representing the facts. it giving money to the states without a way to pay it back is wrong. host: would you consider yourself a republican? caller: yes, i used to bait a republican until the republicans became as big spenders as democrats with an accountability. look at the wars overseas. hundreds of billions of dollars and yet we pay for it because we can get away with it. if it was a real war, we would have to ask the taxpayers to pay for it out of real money. host: should republicans gave back control of the house and senate in november? caller: the republicans are just as bad as the democrats have been. under bush they spent money that they didn't have an under obama it is getting worse. and i just want to say one other thing to all of the listeners out there.

this thing has been growing for 20 years. you can look at the reversal of the glass-steagall act, power and expansion of the two big to fail banks, using lobbying power in washington to get what they want while individuals gets run over in the states. host: jeff, some might say that this bill that they are going to vote on in the senate, $26 billion in aid to the states, is the reverse of helping out big banks, that they are trying to help out teachers and firemen and police officers, people who don't make a lot of money. are you still there? as we lost him. we will want to louisville, ky. democratic line. good morning. caller: the state's need the money. i lived in atlanta for a while in a house. and they had been mandated to

fix the water system, and they really didn't have the money so the water bills went up. now here in louisville, the work of bills have gone up because they will not fix the water system. the reason the states are in trouble because all of this stuff was mandated by the federal government, but for eight years they were building schools in iraq and not in the u.s.. they did not fund no child left behind, so don't blame it on the democrats. you better put the democrats back in. of the 14th amendment. the republicans of trying to destroy this country. host: an example of one state but will get some aid is pennsylvania. here in "the philadelphia inquirer" --

oakland, california. jane on the democratic line get your thoughts this morning but caller: please hear me out. i have so much to say. i have been listening to -- for months.

i appreciate what the democratic party is trying to do right now. it is long overdue. a lot of the main economists said from the very beginning that the stimulus should have been larger because of what we were involved in a when president obama actually took office. let me just say, as far as tax breaks go, republicans saying the same tired song that we need to cut taxes for the corporations or they are going to go overseas. we cut their taxes for the last eight years and before that and they still took our jobs overseas. we don't have jobs now because they are overseas, they are outsourced, but they are singing the same tired song that we've got to cut corporation taxes. they get more tax breaks than anybody in this country and they are sitting on money, not hiring

people, but continued to give them tax breaks so they can continue to go overseas? there was a lot in this country where companies were not able to go overseas, then they made it so global that, yes, they took away those incentives for them to stay here. why did they stay here when they could go overseas and get stuff and yet get tax breaks along with a? host: we will leave it there. "the boston globe" reports massachusetts will get about $655 million from this bill for their state. orlando, florida. james on the republican line. good morning. caller: first i would like to say this bill is unconstitutional. the power to regulate an appropriate education and health care is not a power granted to the federal government. but getting beyond that issue, i know in my state of florida, they are basically playing games in washington. they have been raising taxes --

property-tax, sales tax, new cigarette tax, a lottery for education, they have assessments they are sending up to homeowners for fire, and yet when they can't meet their budget airways cream we are going to cut firemen, police officers, teachers, but they will not cut these other projects, like the $480 million arena for a basketball team, multimillion-dollar road that goes nowhere in a very underpopulated areas. when you go to them and tried to propose areas to cut, like consolidating schools that have small number of students enrolled into bigger schools, they don't listen and then they start screaming to washington to give us money, and then washington does it instead of holding the state's accountable. host: the note we will vote for? caller: i am a tea partier, so i

have no idea. in the senate race, i am not happy but anybody. i know they say marco rubio is a tea partier, but i do not think so. charlie crist is obviously out for himself. i am one of those, i know you hear it all the time on c-span, off one of the people who is disillusions. host: will you vote? caller: i will because it is my responsibility. but i can tell you i am not enthusiastic about it. host: mark, independent line. caller: how are you? i think since the mid-1970s, the amount of money we have been spending on student education has quadrupled or qui to go we're going to live coverage on capitol -- >> we're

going to live coverage on capitol hill. ohlive coverage here on c-span. >> we are at risk of the slipping away unless we develop a more coherent national manufacturing strategy. in fact, it has been a long time since we have even asked ourselves if we needed and manufacturing strategy. our economy has tilted away from an infection but disastrous results for the nation's middle class. since 1987, manufacturing share of gdp has declined more than 30%. put another way, in 30 years ago u.s. manufacturing made up of about 25% of gdp. financial-services made up about 11%, 30 years ago. today those numbers have almost flipped. we see where that got us in terms of the financial crisis. we see where we are in terms of

lost manufacturing jobs and see what that have meant to the prosperity of this country. we note this matters for several reasons. jobs in manufacturing pay more on average than servicing drops. second, manufacturing has let the economy out of recession because it tends to respond quickly to changing economic conditions while creating tangible wealth. since the beginning of the bush recession, we have seen profits of large financial institutions and other service firms increased dramatically. at the same time, the nation's unemployment rate is still hovering at 9.5%. wells created by expanded production requires an expanded worth -- wells created by expanded -- wealth created by expanded production requires an expanded wealth.

there are long-term challenges such as how we maintain the capacity to supply our military forces and how we achieve energy independence. this morning we will hear from two of the administration's point people on developing and implementing a manufacturing agenda. one lesson we have learned that there is no clear path to manufacturing success, rather we have heard in this remote of the past year, and as i have heard in the factories and businesses, we need a strategy that the fits a predictable strategy, a supply chain that is open to new markets, and the ability to compete domestically and abroad.

our government has taken steps to chordate agencies through the assistant secretary of commerce for manufacturing and services, whom we will hear from this morning. president obama has named a senior counselor, ron bloom, following his successful restructuring of the auto industry. four ohio and our nation, manufacturing matters. we know that. on behalf of a machine shop owners, clean energy manufacturers, i am hopeful that we have an administration that also believes it matters. we also hear from the senator. thank you. >> i just want to publicly say what a leader you have been in this sector in , and a tireless advocate for making sure that we have a manufacturing sector in

america. nobody is better about that the chair brown. he recently pointed out that the traditional arguments, the reason we cannot compete in the manufacturing bases is because wages are too high. we're 16th in the world in manufacturing-related wages. >> thank you for your leadership of all kinds of economic issues. i would like to introduce william strauss, senior economist at the federal reserve in chicago. mr. strauss joined the federal reserve in chicago in 1992. he analyzes the current performance of the midwest economy in the manufacturing sector for use in monetary policy. he produces a monthly manufacturing index, organizes the bank economic outlook symposium and annual auto outlook symposium, conducts

several workshops and roundtable throughout the year. he currently teaches at the university of chicago, the gramm school of general studies. pimm mr. strauss, welcome. we look forward to your testimony. -- mr. strauss, welcome. >> chairman brown and members of the economic policy subcommittee, i am pleased to share with you some perspective on long-term trends and observations on how the recent recession and recovery are expecting -- affecting manufacturing. one major issues the extent to which we should be focusing on the number of people employed in this sector and the overall output. interestingly, each leads to opposite conclusion about strength of manufacturing in the

united states. let's start off with employment. manufacturing employment, as a share of total employment, has been declining over the past six years. moving down from 31% in 1950, to 9% in 2009. observations on the amount of real goods projections are very different. manufacturing output in 2007 amounted to a level of over 600% higher than that in 1950. that translates into an average growth of 3.4% each year. hal is manufacturing able to produce such a surge of the past six years, but even with declining employment? the answer is productivity. with the application of new process technologies, better management, and new product innovations, productivity growth in the manufacturing sector averaged 2.9% over the past 60 years. between 1950 and 2007,

productivity growth and technological advancement allowed manufacturing output growth to exceed the growth of the overall economy. yet though it seems to be a contradiction at the same time, manufacturing sector's share of gdp has been declining. the seemingly paradox can be easily explained. the greater efficiency of the manufacturing sector has supported either a slower increase or outright decline in the presence of goods they manufacture. while declining prices have led to a greater unit demand for manufactured products, increase demand has not fully compensated for the lower prices. so too, that output growth has not translated into an increase in every manufacturing sector. when of the great sphinx of the u.s. economy is the ability which is one of the great strengths of the u.s. --ability > one of the great strengths of

the u.s. economy is the ability to reinvent itself continually. nor has manufacturing and denies itself from the business cycle. the recent recession impact of the economy quite parsley. manufacturing output, which peaked in december 2007, fell by 17.5%, bottoming in june last year. with a severe loss of output, manufacturing jobs declined by 16% during 2008 and 2009. over 2.1 million in part train workers lost their jobs. -- over 2.1 million manufacturing workers lost their jobs. over the past year manufacturing output has increased nearly 9% and has recovered 42% of the

loss experience during the recession. interestingly, the industries that have the experience a large increases over the past year were the same industries that were the hardest hit, motor vehicle and parts and primary metals. this year the manufacturing sector has been adding jobs each and every month for a total of 136,000 jobs. the manufacturing sector remains of a vibrant, innovative industry in the u.s.. output has been rising at a solid pace over time, and most of the growth, in particular over the past 30 years, has been achieved by a increasing productivity. this increase in productivity has been a double edged sword. on one side to increase in productivity has fostered a globally competitive sector. being more productive often means that a producer can increase output without the need to add flavor. these movements in output,

productivity, and labor have not been confined to the past two years, but have been taking place for decades. if these manufacturing sector trends continue, we cannot afford to a sector that will continue to produce the ever increasing amounts of output, while contributing to a stronger u.s. economy. >> thank you. hinchey for your testimony, mr. strauss. i am concerned. -- thank you for your testimony. i am concerned that in your testimony, understanding the role of productivity, we have the most productive work force in the world. we know that, but we also looked at a country like germany, which pays much higher wages, has

significantly higher unionization rates as we do. they export in value more goods than we do, a country four times the size and population more or less. i know that we're very productive. i know german workers are very productive. just two weeks ago chairman bernanke sat in the see you're sitting at and i asked if the chinese exchange rate policy is a subsidy. i think most of us believe on this committee that there is a currency issue. how would you answer that question? is china's currenciey undervalud and how much it bid is? >> with regard to the currency issues, and certainly i have

read and heard different testimonies and read different studies that suggest that china's currency is undervalued. that would imply a subsidy is taking place. i would also highlights that if there was a re-evaluation of that, it is not clear that would necessarily bring jobs back in a large amount. businesses are looking for the least costly way of doing their business, and quite often a lot of the goods are relatively low and evaluated, and that is white they are moved to china to take advantage of the lower-skilled and lower-paid wages that take place there. and then there would be alternative sources that could very well be outside of the united states. >> does it concern you that as we have lost -- you are in the midwest in chicago. i know my state is not your

jurisdiction, most of my state, but i know you know what has happened in medium-sized towns and fairly big cities with a falling out of manufacturing -- with the hollowing out of manufacturing. does it concern you, the business model that we have pursued in the past 20 years? i believe it is unprecedented in history that our business model for many corporations are to lobby the congress for a certain kind of trade laws and tax law and then move production to another country and then sell those products backed into the united states, into the mother country, if you will? i do not know that that has ever happened in history. that is not the whole story. does that concern you as a business model that we have decided by the way we write tax law and trade bloc, the way we deal with currency, the way we deal with everything from the

international trade commission to the department of commerce that that has become operating business plan for much of america's large corporations? >> mr. chairman, i certainly can appreciate and understand the concerns about communities when they see a factory that gets closed and how that can impact that community quite severely. those kinds of decisions are best left to congress with issues surrounding subsidies, taxation, and so forth. i can share that historically over time that manufacturing as a whole has risen because of how efficient we are. i would exercise caution with regard to moving forward with any kind of policy that would cause the manufacturing firms to become less efficient and productive, which has allowed it

to grow. >> you think the trade policy and the tax policy is and has served american efficiency and productivity -- has served american efficiency and productivity as well as it can? >> that is a question that i am not prepared to answer at this point, senator. >> ok. >> think you, senator warner. -- thank you, senator warner. i agree with senator brown. we may have different views on how we go at trade. i think it is an issue that it is our responsibility to take on. where i would like to focus my line of questioning is on small to midsize businesses that have been particularly hard it. -- hard hit.

i got added to an american compete for the legislation list that would allow small and medium-sized businesses to access high-performance computing, which again, helps them. larger companies have already use these tools to increase productivity. i would like comments on that i would like to have comments on one of the the things we have talked about. we've lost a lot of apparel- related jobs in my state. i do not think they're coming back. i am particularly interested in high-value manufacturing. one of the concerns that i have as a former governor that made me crazy was the lack of coordination on federal job- training programs. i'd think we have 34 separate programs. -- i think we have 34 separate programs. i would love any kind of comment

to my home on consolidation of work force training, particularly as we work toward higher-value training. i would argue one of the reason that germany does better on value-added manufacturing is the put a lot more in their training initiatives. finally, while you may not want to answer a question about trade policy, i do think we have not served our small and medium- sized manufacturing companies well on making them familiar with how they can do a better job of exporting. for so long america's market was so large and we did not need to look abroad. i would be curious if you had any thoughts on that. high-value computing in terms of medium-sized manufacturing, work-force training, and then what we can gdue for a manufacturing policy.

>> thank you for the concerns. i sure everyone of them and understand the issues. with regard to high performance that does come about. we have had the opportunity of having the largest trade show in the country, and second-largest in the world take place every two year. this is the year it will come to chicago in september. in this an absolute marvel to go and tour the show and see how overtimed the type of manufacturing has changed. in particular, the ramp up in productivity over the past 30 years coincides with the introduction of this computer callnumerical control that began earnest in the late 1970's. over time companies have still been trying to figure out the

ways of continuing to become more and more efficient. this machinery is one example. we had a conference in chicago about five years ago where we invited companies from all over the region to talk about productivity is going, and one of the questions i often get is can we stream even more productivity out of this? the story revolves around a woman who was running a machine shop. the machine has gone so efficient ship brought in the second machine and ask all workers to start running that machine at the same time. -- the massena to -- machine had gotten so efficient that she brought in a second machine and asked the worker to start running that machine at the same time. he was neglectereluctance becaut was his job. technology brings more and more

efficiency to our jobs. with regard to the education side, i completely agree with you. education needs to be a primary focus for our work force. certainly in manufacturing. i hear from contacts that they find that ait a challenge to find a qualified workers to operate in the computer sector. whatever we can do with regard to work force training and apprenticeship programs, those are key. with regard to exports, i agree with you. for many years we were able to proceed with living off of how good we were doing within our own economy, and that allows smaller companies to be successful without thinking internationally. we see more and more small firms helped through some of the gold key programs. i try to keep tabs on that as well.

>> thank you, senator warner. i think the point about small manufacturers is so important. i watch machine shops, small specialty shops supply companies that are typically non-union, 1500 employees that the in the auto supply chain or some other component manufacturer. the large company will move to mexico or china. they do not have the wherewithal to export typically. they have lost their biggest customer. >> that might be a subject of a future hearing, because i really think that sector -- we may not be able to solve every challenge, but there could be targeted assistance. >> senator merkley.

>> thank you for your testimony. oregon is one of 17 states were manufacturing makes up more than 10% of employment. it is a source of good paying stable jobs, except when those jobs go to mexico and asia, as they have routinely. as you think about the challenges and dynamics in the midwest and recognized and other regions have different factors at work, what do you see? when you look at the northwest, what makes the northwest manufacturing economy different than the area where you spend most of your time on in terms of the midwest? are their insights about the intelligence and the rest of the country? >> when i think about the

northwest i think about the aviation industry. the point about some of the trends we see in terms of employment, you know, these are issues, the productivity we have been experiencing is not solely a u.s. phenomenon. we're seeing productivity growth has been all around the world. similar trends with the loss of employment. in a study that wa. s put out five years ago that looked at manufacturing trends between 1995 and 2002, and their estimates are that china went from having 98 million workers in manufacturing in 1995, down to 83 million in 2002.

in essence china lost the same number of jobs in manufacturing that we have in manufacturing. we can answer that list with brazil, russia and so forth. the productivity trends are happening all around the world on the employment share. >> well, thank you. i am not sure that got to the heart of the distinctions in the regions, but one thing i think that is common around the region is that you have a workforce that is less prepared in areas such as welding, machine operation, and so forth. just about everyone i knew took metal shop and wood shop in either middle school or high school, and added to the fact was the fact that we grew up building things and garages, and

neither of those are true now. the class is in school are gone come in the kids are on the computers -- and the kids are on the computers rather than utilizing tools. just not enough folks trained in the cracks or interested in the cross. do you think that is a real factor? -- just not enough folks trained in the crafts or interested in the crafts. >> things have softened up clearly. while things have improved, we're still quite weak. these kinds of jobs, there tends

to be shortages. what we can do is foster greater amounts of skills training, again, through some of the technical schools, apprenticeship programs, and allowed firms themselves to train their work force. >> i will conclude with one last question. up through about mid-1970's, as productivity increase, the wages of working americans increased. add about that time, the kurds started dramatically diverging. -- the curves started dramatically diverging. you would think we would have a proportional increase in wages, but as you look at the diversions and those curbves, ay

insights on that? >> i share your concern with regard to the real increase in wages that have been taking place. to give back to the education site, we have seen over time there are rewards to greater amounts of education. when you look at the differentials between obtaining a college degree, associate degree, or even technical training, there are definitely rewards. education is a big key to advancement. i would encourage those types of things. the only other thing i would highlight is one of the benefits of the searcher productivity has been the ability of goods that have been showing relatively slower rates of increase or are right declines. auto industry for the past 10 years, prices of the vehicles have fallen each and every year

toward the past 10 years, making those products more affordable to the average american. >> can i just ask one thing? can you repeat what you said about the work force size and china actually declining within the manufacturing sector? >> there was a report that was put out back in 2005 that employment in china peaked at 98 million in manufacturing. keep in mind, the size of the entire work force is 148 million. by 2002, it had fallen down to 83 million. it fell even further to 80 billion in 2000 because of the asian crisis but then bounced back up to 83 million. we're seeing these trends throughout the world. . .

nicole lamb-hale was nominated by president obama, it unanimously confirmed to serve as assistant secretary for manufacturing and services. she helps to strengthen the role. secord needs a, department

strategies and policies with u.s. industries in mind -- she hopes to coordinate these. she convinced experts inside and outside the government -- convenes them to talk about issues faced by the industry. prior to that she was manager of a law firm in detroit. she specialized in manufacturing. roger kilmer has been with the manufacturing extension partnership since 1993. previously, he was the deputy director, serving as a chief operating officer and financial officer. he received a civil medal award for leadership -- the silver medal ward. he received a bronze medal for superior leadership of the robotics program.

manufacturing extension partnership is a public-private partnership leveraging federal support by teaming with industry as well as local organizations. in my state, it is there an effective with small companies with nearly 300 offices in all 50 states. it provides services and access to resources that enhance activity. >> to go. thank you for this opportunity testify before you today on the president's manufacturing agenda and what we at the department are doing to promote u.s. manufacturing. the department of commerce is committed to promoting this important sector. we do it daily by working to create the right environment to help manufacturers sustain and growth companies, and create jobs.

in december 2009, the obama administration released a strategy entitled "a framework for revitalizing u.s. manufacturing to get the department addresses several components, including helping workers transition to a better future. we're working with other agencies such as those departments of transportation and secretary, and the sba. as assistant secretary, i believe it is critical to ensure the manufacturing sector is strong. manufacturing extension partnership i dudley works to ensure it the sector is competitive globally. our programs and partnerships are strategically developed to support the needs of the u.s. men crashing sector, and president's agenda. mass industry analysts and economists have extensive knowledge of the subject, and based on their analytics we

provide decision-makers objective data to develop and implement policies to support u.s. manufacturing competitiveness. it follows a three-pronged approach. to convene, collaborate, and connect. we convened experts inside and outside of the government to work toward solution to problems faced by the industry. it collaborates with agencies around the federal government to implement solutions to increase competitiveness, and mas works to connect industry with federal government resources to help u.s. companies compete abroad. i would like to share a few examples of the three c's at work. it convenes the manufacturing council to advise and ensure regular communication between the federal government and manufacturing sector. the commerce secretary announced a newly appointed members of the council this afternoon at 2:00

p.m. in the senate visitors center. it will look at the critical issues. finance, and energy particularly. mas collaborates with other agencies to deliver programs. it developed the department sustainable many freshmen initiative. we work with industry and other federal agencies to showcase practices that help company reduce operating costs. in september, we will launch a new initiative, many fresher america, to help to connect manufacturers to resources to help them rethink and retool operations. it is designed to enable them to explore new products, markets, practices, and finance sources. we expect it will help sustain and create jobs, and will particularly focus on needs of small and medium-sized manufacturers. the administration's free-market recognizes exporting goods is a key component to revitalize the

u.s. many fashion. in the state of the union address, the president announced the export initiative and set the ambitious goals of doubling exports in five years to support several million jobs. mas and other bureaus are developing initiatives and improving implementation of existing programs to support the goals. we're also strengthening inter- agency coordination of efforts by working with others across the trade promotion committee. but the emerging markets and our key, a traditional trading partners offer export opportunities for u.s. manufactured goods. leaders are likely to be found in high-growth sectors such as medical devices, aerospace, clean energy, technology, an infrastructure. mas is currently developing sector-specific local strategies to guide policies. we have taken on and are

planning a variety of actions to expand exports to traditional and emerging markets. for example, the initiative in may to china resulted in immediate sales data that over $20 million. the mission came at a critical time when the chinese leadership expressed a clear commitment to adopt clean energy technologies, and u.s. companies are developing and commercializing these technologies. the department and ita are prioritizing existing programs that offer the highest return on guzman. one such program is the market development program. for every federal dollar, we estimate $131 in exports is generative. mas is also addressing the critical financing needs of manufacturers. for many companies who will participate in the manufacture america, financing is a significant jones. we're working with the treasury department and local banking groups.

president obama has proposed legislation that includes a $30 billion small-business lending fund, and a state small-business credit initiative. these are two parts of a small business job package the president hopes to sign into law. i have mentioned only some of the strategic initiatives we are employed to support the president's manufacturing agenda and initiative. we at the department continue to work to ensure the business environment both domestic and international are fair to u.s. manufacturers. thank you for the opportunity to justify it on the activities of the department. we undertake to enhance the competitiveness of u.s. manufacturing. >> roger kilmer? >> chairman brown, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the efforts of the housing and urban affairs committee, and how it

supports american manufacturers. today would like to talk about a few of the services it offers. and the access to capital to support the growth. first i would like to give you a brief overview. with a nationwide network of over 400 locations around the country, helps to strategically employment growth opportunities and improved position in the market. in fiscal year 2009, served nearly 32,000 clients, reporting in billions of new sales, $1 billion in cost savings and creation of nearly 50,000 new jobs. we're working to harness technology and innovation. facilitates the adoption of technological in addition, especially clean ones. we all know improving processes, developing new products, for

accessing new markets requires the capital. for most smaller ones, securing capital is often frustrating and complex. with capital even scarcer in today's averment, the process is more difficult for even his starkly-successful companies. the advisory board found many small manufacturers, even healthy ones, have been unable to finance growth and project diversification plans. accordingly, is tackling the issue from a number of angles. i like to give an overview of the ongoing work in these areas. it is working through the network of partnerships with other federal, state, and local organizations to more effectively access the myriad of programs to provide capital to finance growth. as an example, on the federal level, uses its capital with

enterprises systems providers as a mechanism to learn about programs that can provide m financing. we use it as a quick reference guide. mep is also sharing information on private sources of capital and finance. for example, it is reaching out to the equipment leasing committee to provide manufacturers what information on leasing strategies as possible options for equipment acquisition. it is also in gauging the bank of america which represents the elite 5000 community banks throughout the nation. through these, mep looks to enhance the understanding of how the system serves a technical resource on manufacturing issues. it supports manufacturers as a good investment for these institutions. another example, mep helps companies to develop export

opportunities. it has developed the export tax program to assist with developing international growth plans. it connects the company with organization and resources, including financial ones, that can help them move quickly beyond planning to actual export sales. another expanding area that requires access to funding to resources involves improving the energy efficiency of operations. as a result of the focus on reducing consumption, it is delivering services that help to make changes to become more efficient. we are piloting a new effort called e3, that stands for economy, energy, and and vermin. it combines the resources of five federal agencies, local government, and utilities to enhance sustainability in local and regional economies. another, gsn, is the

collaboration between several agencies and focuses on the dual challenge of reducing environmental impact while increasing the company's efficiency, productivity, and profitability. as i have mentioned, raising capital is one of the most basic business functions. but for many smaller manufacturers, it is often difficult. to bridge the gap, mep looks at ways to improve access to financing options. smaller many freshers positioned to move to the next level, whether in development of new products, markets, or sales, made clear strategies to secure capital resources to achieve it. with our partnerships and toolbox of services ourmep is uniquely positioned to provide them with a better understanding of the range of options, and resources that match their exact needs. the continued on corp. will give manufacturers the information they need to implement growth

strategies, resulting in new sales, expanded markets, technology adoption, and sustainability. thank you for the opportunity to testify. >> thank you. i understand that mep has a partnership with the energy department to determine domestic capacity and programs funded by the ara. we're all concerned with the texas wind turbine farm, not having developed enough supply chain -- i understand the way it works. when doe was request, it poured it on to you, the information, and to advertise for a product specifications your network. i understand there is a bit of an incentive for you to find those suppliers. how was it working the? >> very well. we're pretty much on the front

end of the process, but have already had quite a bit of success in being able to find local suppliers. one of the advantages is with a national network we can broadcast this anywhere in the country, to find those domestic sources for the components. >> if you are doing that with doe, is there potential for dot? i was speaking with the secretary one day about high- speed rail. pretty much the only countries that have a well-developed manufacturing system or capacity are france, germany, china, and japan. that is not to say we don't build a lot of the components. for example, in dayton, ohio, there is a company that builds them for rail.

could we apply for you are doing to dot, and dod? do you need legislative authority the? >> absolutely. no, we do not. for example -- with the wind energy -- we have had examples in the states where potential many pressure would like to move operations to the u.s., but one of their concerns is the access to suppliers. we are able to work with them and states involved to identify and locate those suppliers to can support that operation. >> and assembly, a company that assembles the final wind turbines? >> many small manufacturers make all the same components that have been providing to the automotive industry, that are similar to what is needed. >> do you need an official request from dot to begin the process? >> we have started some

conversations with them, but it is only preliminary. any help would be useful, but honestly, they understand the need. >> i think they understand that if -- there is talk of the next 20 years of building some 25,000 rail cars. and maybe 2000 locomotives. for high speed, and less than high speed rail and streetcars. we don't have the capacity while other countries do. there's no reason we cannot do more of the supply chain here. we will follow up. ms. nicole lamb-hale, poorly coming from senator warren's first comes about wages in manufacturing in some number of european countries, contrasting with ours, but to talk a little

about germany and get your thoughts on making a comparison. german exports came to $1.10 trillion in 2009, $125 billion more than our exports. their unemployment has dropped from 9.1% down to 7.6%. their yearly trade balance went from a deficit 12 years ago of $6 billion, down to a surplus of $760 billion -- up to that amount and addictive. our trade deficit was five and a $69 billion, and something close to $600 million per day from china by laterally alone. germany's annual growth rate per capita exceeded ours. what do we learn from that? what are they doing that we're not in the manufacturing? how the decide a strategy as you

put together a policy for president obama -- what do we learn the? >> lead about the importance of exporting. the comments made today have suggested that often, because of the strong position the u.s. has traditionally had with respect to our internal markets, we have not focused on exporting as much. that is what the president announced the national export initiative with the goal of doubling its in five years to support two million new jobs. we need to look for new markets. germany has been particularly successful in exporting. we need to focus on that. we're working hard to make sure small and medium-sized and businesses understand tools available to help them. one thing we are excited about in terms of the launch of many fresher america is that it will take to communities,

particularly those hardest hit by such losses, the resources that many do not know about. that is not their fault. the initiative will include exposing those sized businesses to exporting tools available. it will talk about best practices, like sustainable and manufacturing practices. it will highlight success stories of those who have successfully retooled to markets or products. it is really important for us to ensure that the information and resources available both through the federal government and state and local governments are known to small and medium-size businesses, and exporting is key to that. >> thank you. i appreciate your emphasis on small businesses. that seems to me the biggest hole in the picture. the other one, and i'm not asking you to answer this --

when we have appealed to the administration on some currency issues, individual industries -- for instance, china has pretty much from scratch began the whole paper industry. while china may have invented paper centuries ago, they did not have much of a gutted paper industry. ohio, new york, virginia do. china imports all of its wood pulp from brazil, brings it to china, processes it, and sends it to us. this is not in your jurisdiction, but it is very important to the administration to move on investigating currency on those practices, on those kinds of issues. these companies will simply go out of business if it continues.

they had always been very competitive before that. senator warner? >> thank you. i will return to that comment in a moment. i want to reiterate something both panelists made. the entire problem we have in terms of getting manufacturing business access to capital -- we are in crisis mode where large cap companies are sitting with the healthiest balance sheets that have had in years, and the supply chain -- the chairman has talked about, in ohio -- but those sized companies are dying on the vine right now. the large companies know they will come back in orders at some time, but their supply chain -- if they can get their credit line to renew, those companies

-- the traditional small businesses have been washed up. now we're cutting into companies with long years of history. if they get washed out, our economy will have a hard time getting a robust recovery by the failure of access to capital. i wish my colleagues from the other side of the aisle were here. this small business initiative with the lending pool, state initiatives, a proven track record, programs, tax breaks -- all geared at access to credit. particularly for many fashion businesses. if we cannot accomplish that, this place is pretty darn broken. both my colleagues have been big supporters. i hope of we have that continued resistance that you will continue to look at other

initiatives. waiting in lumber and in my state or others, another year or more of delay -- even if you have a healthy cash flow, you will not be able to expand and may have to shut down. i know this is more of a speech than testimony. i want to ask nicole lamb-hale to follow up on the aspect that the chairman mentioned at the bell getting high speed rail -- my former job as governor involved economic development recruitment. my colleagues in oregon or ohio --but when we came against china, we came against brazil for their federal government was able to intervene with a sweetened package.

we fell down. we have legislation called the america recruits act that would later on $10,000 extra per job on top of an already existing development effort to bring jobs back to the country. it is targeted directly at i.t. and many freshmen. many rural communities have become much more price competitive than a decade or two ago. the jig both acts i.t. and manufacturing. i hope we will do high-speed route, and we would love to have some of that manufacturing done. that location -- to be competitive, no matter what type of tax breaks are offered by states, without that initial

assure incentive on the front end -- and only available for jobs coming into the country, so would not supplement battles between states -- it would be to jobs that would otherwise go to india or china. it would bring them back. i ask you to go back and bring more support from the commerce department and administration. >> we are increasing our inter- agency cooperation, particularly concerning access to capital, with the treasury department. in response to the request, the new one will be announced this afternoon. it is part of the recommendation of our prior counsel -- we have included as an ex-official member of the treasury department, and will have active participation of that department

to try to address the access to capital issues. that was a request directly from the council. return to see what the administration can do to make sure they are dressed. >> i applaud that. i would also urge you to look at this, what we can do in terms of creating incentives on site location. it is no longer state versus state, but america versus the world, and we need tools like others have. >> thank you. one of the things we keep confronting in our tariff barriers to american products -- last year we had the cash for clunkers program to encourage and sustain the sale of cars

here. a story circulated around capitol hill that whereas we did not require the cars subsidized to be built in america because of international treaty obligations, china turned around and did something similar, the restricted it to cars made in china. wasnot sure if that story exactly correct, but it was an example of those we hear often of barriers to american products abroad. how much truth is there to non- tariff barriers? why is it that we seem to have such a hard time playing hardball to get a fair level playing field for american products? >> to either or both of you? >> first, i would like to say

the obama administration is committed to enforcing our trade laws, and we're working hard to do so. it certainly -- we believe american products are very competitive, and can beat other products from other countries if given a fair chance. we work very hard through our import administration and in cooperation with ustr to ensure the level playing field you described. >> do you think we are there? or are there significant challenges? often the reaction among some is a hesitancy to hold other nations accountable for their non-tariff barriers for fear of triggering a trade war, and the short-term problems it could create, but how do go about holding countries accountable?

>> i think that you maintain vigilance and pursuing the enforcement of trade laws. that is what the obama administration is committed to. we continue to do it. much of what we do is the subject of pending cases we cannot speak about specifically. we understand what the does, the lack of it will do to our manufacturing base in this country. we are committed to making sure that american products can compete on a level playing field. >> [unintelligible] >> andy richter recent article about the loss of manufacturing in the u.s., and one thing he observed is that while there are firms such as intel that have sizable operations -- and we are

fortunate to have a couple in oregon, there are many under firms that are designing products, but immediately set up production facilities offshore. the compromise is ability to scale up here in the u.s. and create significant manufacturing jobs here. is this an issue we are focused on? how visit it affect jobs and national security, and how we change the dynamic? >> i agree there needs to be a strong connection between the basic research, design, and development aspects, and actual production. it certainly is a challenge.

the things we are beginning to see, when you look at the total manufacturing enterprise, not just labor costs, you see a tendency to reevaluate that, and divert some of that effort back to the u.s. to tie the many freshen process more closely to the customer base is serving. there is a way to go on that -- to tie the manufacturing process more closely to the customer base. there is a desire to look at all the components of costs, not just the labor element, but even logistics' that go with it. >> i would like to add, and partly in response to senator warner's comments about making sure america is competitive for site selection -- the secretary is working very hard on an initiative we hope to stand up shortly that will help in that

regard. we do know that our states are competing with countries. we must make sure we are corporate and not choosing winners and losers among states. that the federal government weighs in so that our siting manufacturing within the u.s. is more competitive. onwant to work with thayou that. making sure the entire package as competitive so companies can locate here, and we can create jobs we need to sustain our growth in the 21st century. >> thank you, senator. we have been called to a vote. thank you both for being here. ms. nicole lamb-hale i appreciate comments about enforcing trade law. your administration has gone further than a minister since and neither party on both manufacturing policy and

enforcing trade law. the jury is still out on enforcing trade law. we need a more aggressive posture from your department, your specific portfolio, your department in the treasury, and ustr. we will talk more later. my colleagues may have other questions they can submit for the record. the record will remain open for seven days for mr. william strauss and for you. we appreciate your remaining here to listen to other palace. the subcommittee will adjourn. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010]

>> the pressure of the justice department where in about 25 minutes there will be a press conference for noon eastern. attorney general eric holder will talk about a matter related to national security. it will be live here on c-span at noon eastern.

the national incident commander for the gulf oil spill was on this morning's "washington journal" to give an update. host: admiral thad allen, the commander on the ground here on the gulf coast here to talk about the latest in the oil spill. and we've seen reports that the plugging of the hole with cement is starting as we speak. what's happening? guest: well, yesterday as you know we filled the hole with mud. one final step now was to actually fill the hole with cement. we took a day to get the pressure readings from the mud kill just to understand what the condition of the well was before we started putting cement in. the technical issue is, where is the drill pipe? and nobody is really sure of that. we think there is a consensus between our science team and b.p. engineers that it's suspended from that blowout preventer. you need to know where the drill pipe is before you start cements. that is cleared and ready to

go. host: what is it? guest: the drill pipe down in the well. when the blowout preventer closed it held the drill pipe in place, we believe. if you put cement in it you need to know where the drill pipe is. host: then what? guest: that's the final step. we filled it with mud and cement. we pretty much removed any chance we could ever release into the environment. but ultimately we have to finish the relief well. that's drilling in from the bottom and then filling the area what is called the annual that sets between the casing and the well bore. host: how long will it take to do the work you're doing this morning, filling it with cement and then flood the relief well? guest: well, the cement will take a day and then we'll go and finish the relief well. i say seven days to finish the relief well. host: then at that point when you finish the relief well? guest:le well will be killed. host: and then what? guest: well, we have a lot of other things to do.

there's a lot of oil in the mashes of louisiana and mississippi and alabama. natural resource damage assessment, a lot of work to do. host: how many weeks, months, do you suspect you and others will be down there? guest: well, we'll have some kind of response capacity for a long time. i think we'll see oil come to the shore. in the spring we'll see it surface again. we need some mechanism. they could be grooming the beaches in the panhandle of florida next spring. and with a front-end loader find some buried oil, we need to have a plan. host: how long do you plan to stay in this position, do you think? guest: good question. we have a position where the well will be killed. i think we need to talk about next how to get a response, framework set up, to allow us to be responsible in some of the wetlands and marsh lands down there. sometime in the future we'll have a conversation. right now i want to make sure that number one the people in the gulf and the united states understand that we're committed

for long-term recovery, that we'll make sure all the oil is cleaned up and hold b.p. accountable. that's on the near term. host: it sounds like if there's a transition made to what you're talking about you wouldn't be in charge of that? guest: will of it will have to be the report that will go to the president. it goes way beyond the current spill, ecological issues. there will be a transition to a new long-term recovery organization. those discussions are going on right now in the administration. host: you say when you go on vacation that's when the oil has stopped spilling. do you have a vacation planned? guest: i had one planned but that's been put off. host: do you know when you'll take it? guest: i think the american people want me to focus on the task at hand. host: what's your biggest concern going forward today? guest: well, we want to kill the well. we want to make sure 100% -- make it 100% sure that no oil leaks into the gulf. we don't want that to happen.

we'll have to continue to do seismic testing to monitor the well. i think there will be a high degree of probability that the well won't be a problem in the future. for the local fishermen, local oystermen, it does have an impact on them down there. we need to get the fishery areas reopened. doing a lot of work with noaa in that regard. we need to start moving forward and get them back. host: and health concerns, are you concerned about the use of dispersents? people close association to this oil and the impact that could have on people's health. guest: i'm not sure the dispersents are a direct threat to public health because they were used offshore. i think we can have a question about dispersents and how it is used and the impact on the environment. we've done air and water monitoring. actually the e.p.a. and noaa have. use of dispersents offshore is something we need to talk about in conjunction with skimming.

and how we might want to handle a big spill in the future. host: ok. this is front page of "the times-picayune." 26% of the oil still in the gulf but white house report is met with skepticism. why should the american people believe noaa when they were wrong on the initial amounts of oil that was spilling out of this oil well? guest: well, i was talking to a guy in new orleans this morning. if you don't have a problem it's a problem? if you don't have a problem it's a problem. we've been trying to zero in on the flow rate and what are the implications of the oil. and every time we get better information we are going to put that out. noaa has been working very closely with the u.s. geological survey. and marsha mcnut, we take the best numbers we have. we continue to refine them. when we have them we should put them out there and subject to transparency and public debate. it's good. host: is it early to come out and say only 20% -- 26% of oil remains when you don't know how

much has been broken up, where this oil is, that more could come to shore? guest: those are fair question. maybe i can take you through a process. the question is how much oil is coming out. there is some very low estimates. they're really challenging everybody's credibility moving forward. then we got some folks together on the government side, scientists. we came up with two ranges. one was 19,000 to 20,000 barrels a day. when we cut the riser pipe we adjusted that to 60,000. we're stpwhrouring in around 53,000 on average over the life of the spill. when you get that close you can extrapolate that to the total of oil. when you get the total of oil you say where to go? we know we captured some, we know we burned some and skimmed some. what's left is the 26%. guest: this is the -- host: this is the chart shown yesterday. how much oil has been

evaporated or dissolved and burned off, skimmed off, etc. we take a look at this. dan on the democratic line in waterbury, connecticut. you're up first for admiral thad allen. caller: yes, good morning. i have two questions. the first question is on the media blackout and the $40,000 fine for journalists. how does that impead on the first amendment right for free press to free journalism? as a scientist he has been stuzzying the must ain bubble under the drill pipe. thank you. -- studying the main bubble under the drill pipe. thank you. guest: there was not a media blackout. we had things being vandlized or stolen. we needed a way to enforce law against people who are doing that. it's not like you have a no parking zone unless you call it a no parking zone. we say if you come within a certain area of the boom you're

not supposed to be there. we will declare a zone around that. if you're around that we can enforce criminal penalties. we came up with the press where allowed them to go where they needed to. there was never a blackout. and regarding the bubble, there is no report that a methane bubble is below. host: let me let everybody know in the gulf coast we have a special line set aside for folks. that's 202-628-0184. go ahead, oscar. caller: good morning. this is hilarious. this is funny, ok. i mean, real funny. i filed for unemployment. now i'm on radio, right? this is not why i called. i was put on hold.

host: you are on dustin. democratic line. caller: good morning, mr. allen. i called to say i've been observing the way you performed in your duties with regards to this spill. i want to say that i think you're a great american and you always answer the questions. that's a great quality. just want to say that i've appreciated your service to this country and in this great moment where we needed great leadership. i hope that you the -- the person who takes control to have the same qualities i know will be hard to fine. i want to say thank you and keep up the good work and make us whole again. host: can you tell us what it's been like for you? guest: i appreciate the comment. my goal throughout this entire

response has been to create unit of effort. when people talk to me about what we're doing and what we're not doing, i have to tell them i am the national incident commander. i'm not the republican, democrat or b.p. national incident commander. my board of directors are the american people. what i'm trying to do is bring everybody together and create solutions because everybody has to be at the table and there are a lot of passions. a lot of people are frustrated and a lot of people are angry. i think my job is to kind of work through that and get us to someplace where we can make progress. host: so if you could talk about your day-to-back activities. how many times are you getting phone calls from senators or officials at the white house or governors? guest: i think it's all of the above. i spent a lot of time talking with b.p. officials. i spent a lot of time talking to our engineers in houston working with the b.p. engineers. i spend a lot of people from the gulf coast. one third is spent in the gulf

coast. the other time is meeting with officials, briefing cabinet secretaries. almost every part of government is being touched by this. i'll be meeting with the secretary of agriculture on issues they have related to the spill. host: and what are you talking about? guest: mediation and maybe we can use some agricultural product to help combat oil up in the marshes. you will be surprised where the tentacles of this spill go in government. host: next phone call. tim from new sweden, maine, on the independent line. go ahead, tim. caller: my question is, i would like to know how much oil is being pumped out of the gulf of mexico from all the oil companies? and this week it was 50,000 barrels a day. if you took just 2,000 wells out of the 40 that equals 100 million barrels a day capacity and nobody, no politicians or nobody in the news media has asked that question, how much oil is oil companies, not just b.p., but all the oil companies

pumping out of the gulf of mexico? host: admiral, do you know the answer to that? guest: no. it's not down my line of expertise. obviously there are a lot of wells out there. i will make a comment, though. i get asked a lot about the moratorium and things like that. i try to keep the policy issues associated with them, and there are significant issues, i try to keep them separate from the response. there will be a much larger discussion about all these issues. but i think the american public probably expect me to focus on the operational task at hand and that's what i tried to do. host: have you tried to keep tabs on the other wells around the one that's been spilling oil? guest: we have had for a couple of reasons. one of them is a personal safety reason. when we had a lot of oil on the surface, not only around the site where we were working, but rigs that were closer by, we have the -- we have the chance that we could have organic compounds. those are the fuels that basically come up from the oil that actually create a risk to human health. it's required us to actually suppress some of the vapors

around. they actually stopped -- early on they stopped work on surrounding rigs. that's the threat. host: mobile, alabama. david. you're on the air. caller: yes. admiral, i'd like to know how much money did you take from b.p. to sell your soul to them because they used you to manipulate and lie and minor dispersents that you used, that's where the oil is? i've seen it with my own eyes. why don't you sit there and tell the american people the truth instead of trying to manipulate the fact? host: david, where are you seeing the dispersents used? caller: when we were on the opportunity used we saw it sprayed firsthand. they'd quit burning it and go out there and dispersent and spray the hell out of it. they even sprayed some of my friends on shrimp boats when the plane moved over. the admiral knows about it but he won't tell the american

people. guest: the first question is zero regarding the compensation. the answer to the second question, let's talk about dispersents because i know it's an emotional issue with a lot of folks. following the exxon valdez, there was a law passed called the oil pollution act of 1990. in there there was a provision for what they call alternative technologies. this was very novel back in 1990. and the law directed that we look at two things. dispersents as a way to attack oil spills early on. those were situations during the exxon valdez. they were pretty slow to act and lost a window in order to act. during the 1990's, protocols were negotiated completely around the country. i did that when i was captain for port of long island sound. i had to say if you use the burning or dispersents, when and how are you going to use them, where, what kind of things do we need to take in

regards to wildlife, etc.? what can we do without any further consultation because of the speed of the response? when we got into this response, those protocols were in effect and we started using dispersents and burning and skimming. but what happened was we never had a spill this big and we've never been in position to require so much dispersent to be used. on the 25th of may the coast guard sat down with e.p.a. and said this thing is starting to really get large and the amount that's being applied. there needs to be some different protocalls. working with lisa jackson with e.p.a., we reduced it by 75%. host: that's a lot. guest: when the cap was put on we achieved 72%. now, granting exceptions. when there's large quantity of oil there and we weren't able to skim it or burn it and we knew it would be in the marshes

or someplace, then we went out and used dispersents on it. when this is over we have to look at burning, skimming and dispersents and have a very dispassionate argument about this of when will we use these things. dess percentents are legal, -- dispersents are legal, they're allowed by e.p.a. we need to address it. host: does it concern you since you reduced it by that much, 72%, there could be some long-term effects by using as much dispersent as you did? guest: well, we don't know. we've never used dispersents in this quantity before. that was the issue. i probably talk almost daily about this with lisa jackson from e.p.a. it's a leadership issue. it's an issue with the public. i believe -- host: what do you mean it's a leadership issue? guest: well, she runs e.p.a. on. -- and i'm the national incident commander. if we're going to deviate from the protocalls that on the national contingency plan she and i need to talk about that.

what we've done is put e.p.a. folks down into the region so we're not using dispersents now because the well is being capped. starting on the 22nd of june, a decision was made about the dispersents. e.p.a. was with us. host: thanks for waiting, kevin. caller: thank you. good morning, admiral. guest: good morning. caller: thank you for your service, by the way. i wonder if you could briefly just relay your personal experience. i ask that because this has come at an interesting time in your life. and just tell folks briefly about how you feel about what has happened, katrina and i'm really thinking this has been a very interesting time of your life. thank you. guest: you're right, it has been. i was set to be relieved as the commandant of the coast guard in may and retire after the first of july. my wife and i were going to take a vacation. this happened when all the leadership changes were happening in the coast guard.

i never anticipated that an event like this would come up in my life. but frankly i didn't anticipate that hurricane hurricane would happen and the last -- hurricane katrina would happen and the last administration would ask me to go down and help there. i had a long conversation with my wife. obviously this is a significant impact. i always told me throughout my life that leadership is the able to reconcile competency. and there is certain times when you ask to do something even when it's very difficult it's hard to say no. my wife and i sat down and talked about it and we thought this was a fitting thing for me to do and i should do this for the country. host: next call, robert on the independent line from hartsville, indiana. caller: yes, hello. thank you very much for your service from c-span. y'all do a wonderful job. commander allen, i also want to thank you for your dedicated service to your country. i just have a few questions concerning, one, the dispersents. i hear all the time on the media, some say there's going to be tremendous damage by the

-- not only the oil but the dispersents and then you hear others say, no, it doesn't show there's going to be any long-term effects. excuse me. i don't understand how they think that anytime a chemical introduced into the food chain that we will consume if the dess percentents -- dess percentents call a -- dispersents causes a fish to get cancer and it passes on to the human, then that's just total debacle and catastrophe. second of all, i think it could be agreed upon by all parties that if someone has not got the capability onhand at the present time to deal with the worst-case scenario then they don't need to be doing whatever activity that they planned on doing. host: admiral. guest: those are both very good questions. and in fact just this week e.p.a. released some results of

a study where they intermixed oil from the mccondo well with dispersents and saw an increase of toxicity and found out there was none. dispersents, where there is some toxicity level is less toxic in the oil. we know that oil biodegrades over time as does dispersents. what we don't know what are the long-term implications. i think there will be studies done for a long time. we are looking at the implications of dispersents in seafood. as one said in a press briefing with me yesterday, fish, large fish, have the opportunity to me tab lies and pass through. -- metabolize and pass through the system. it's not the case with small lamba and juvenile cree -- larvae and juvenile creatures out there. there are some other types of

seafood, oysters and crabs and so forth there is a different impact because of their metabolic rate. that's the reason we thought at this point it was better to take a measured approach with the use of dispersents. they are legal, there's no ban to using them by regulation or statute, but lisa jackson and i thought it was prudent to take the course of action we did. host: tampa, florida, jeff. go ahead. jeff, you're on the air. go ahead with your commept or question. all right. jeff, i'm going to put you on hold. guest: i didn't answer the second question. he asked about the response. host: go ahead. guest: he raised a very good question. a lot of people are going to be talking for a long, long time about whether or not the right response system was in place. the response system we have in this country right now is largely created through the oil pollution act of 1990 which created something called the national contingency plan. and that somebody that lived through that period of time and actually worked out on the

field to complement -- implement it, it was tanker event. from the late 1980's to mid 1990's we saw a movement of oil offshore in the gulf of mexico. we saw a movement away from fixed drilling rigs to floating drilling rigs where all the controls of the rig were moved to the bottom of the ocean. we had a technology march offshore. all of our regulatory issues related to oil spill, response and control, we're looking at tanker type events. as we take a look at the response system moving forward we are going to have to adjust this because i think the technology got ahead of the regulatory framework. host: the previous caller brought up the whole seafood and whether or not the impact in that area, is there a long-term impact that the government's not quite sure what it's going to be yet and as you said they have to continue to study it. there are restaurants across the country that are canceling their orders for gulf coast

seafood because their customers don't want to eat that. right now would you say that the seafood coming out of there is safe? would you eat it? guest: yes. the seafood coming out of the gulf right now is probably the most tested seafood in the history of this nation. combination of partnership between noaa and the f.d.a. noaa's responsible for what happens in the water. f.d.a. is responsible for the safety of the food chain outside the water. there's a rigorous, rigorous testing protocol that's in place right now. that's in conjunction with local states and consorting with labs across the country. and they are trying to continually test the areas that are closed right now. as soon as they can open them to open them. but i can assure the american public, and i'm speaking on behalf of noaa, the administer of the f.d.a. and the administration if it's been certified and checked. if it's from the gulf it's probably been checked nor rigorously than any other seafood in the country. host: jeff from tampa. caller: thank you, both.

admiral, thank you very much. you've been a great voice and it's been a wonder to have somebody with us with so much knowledge. it's been outstanding. i watched a lot of the press conferences. thank you, again. out of curiousity, i heard a lot of verbal assurances from b.p. have you seen any evidence in writing that proves that b.p. is going to be here for the long haul should things pop up, like you said, next spring or god forbid a year or two or so on down the road? obviously i have to commend b.p. because i don't think that we had the same level of response from exxon 20 years ago, but at the same time it would still be nice to have something beyond than, yes, we'll be here in the future. guest: i guess the phrase would be trust but verify. i can tell you early on the

administration sent letter to b.p. saying they expected them to meet all the requirements even if we exceeded the legal limits of liability. b.p. responded and said that they would. they paid over $300 million in personal claims so far and they're continuing to work on the claims process as we even set up the independent claims process and will be run by mr. feinburg. ideal -- almost daily with bob dudley, the c.e.o. before that, tony hayward. they know what's expected of them. they by law don't have to acknowledge anything. they are the responsible party. they've been designated that in writing by the coast guard, and that means that they are responsible for all costs associated with this. so i think the combination of the legal framework around the designation of a responsible party, the intense scrutiny they're under right now, i think we're in a place where they understand their commitment. but we have to understand, too, the federal government has a role here and we have to make sure they comply with the

directions that are provided and they meet their responsibilities as well. it's not really well understood but under the oil pollution act of 1990, responsible parties actually a legal designation and both b.p. and transocean have been designated responsible parties in that. failure to comply can result in either civil or criminal penalties. host: margaret in new york on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning. good morning. thank you. admiral, i am just going to say what everyone else seems to say which is i am very appreciative of how you are taking these questions and i'm always filled with admiration whenever i hear one of our servicemen. that makes me all but sadder to have to ask you this question because first of all, it seems to me that the dispersent will only make things worse. i'm mott the scientist. i know this question was asked before -- i'm not a scientist. i know the question was asked before. essentially, what's being done

is the dispersent is hiding the oil by dispersing it. it's just being added as another tocksant to the gulf. secondly, -- toxant to the gulf. secondly, this may have happened earlier than when you were in the job, i never heard this addressed. b.p. was forbidding the workers to wear masks to protect themselves from the fumes and other effects, and i heard some of them refused and kept wearing the masks. how is it that our government would not protect our citizens and tell bp, or whoever is responsible, to get out the way, at least, or at best, help them and attacked them? guest: both good questions. let me go to the dispersant issue one more time. both oil and dispersants will biodegrade overtime.

the question is how long it takes to degrade. what happens is that the oil is broken out into various fine particles by the dispersant that allows it to degrade more quickly. one of the things we're going to be doing and are doing right now is testing the water column to make sure we know what the implications are. i think what is going to happen as a result of this incident is that there is going to be closer scrutiny, more research done, and obviously, a number of questions have been raised by the public moving forward. you have to understand the longer term implications of the dispersants. we have a huge example here of dispersants being used and we need to capture all the data we can and we have to adjust the policy moving forward. we can certainly do that. regarding occupational health and safety, let me assure you that we're concerned about the health of the folks working out

there. after i became the national incident commander and we knew that we had -- at one point we had over 40,000 people working down there at any particular day. we went to the department of labor and negotiated a memorandum of understanding with the occupational safety and health administration and brought in the national incident command and established standards for exposure, chemicals or whatever, that exceed current regulatory requirements and made personal protective equipment mandatory in the areas where the thresholds were being exceeded. in fact, i have a meeting later this week with the secretary of labor myself to understand how this is moving forward. we have investigators and inspectors down there to follow up on any event or report on safety. host: democratic line, oklahoma city. caller: good morning. greta, you do a great job. to the admirable, i have a question, as far as the oil, is

it still on the surface or is it beneath the surface? if there is oil beneath the surface, what are the ramifications of that? another comment that i have is that i'm surprised where you talk about the tea party. where were they protesting bp? their favorite line is, what about our children and grandchildren? heretofore a committee came to america and might have destroyed the coasts -- here we have a foreign company that came to america and might have destroyed the coast or with the teabaggeers in louisiana and florida? when the president tries to do something, all of these teabaggers come out. but when we point to the evidence for their children and grandchildren, not a key back -- not a teabagger a round.

host: we will move on to the republican line, dallas. caller: i would like to change the subject of it, if i may. there is 15 minutes of explanation or follow up on that i would like to know, if you will, exactly, a deepwater rigs are being transferred overseas, exactly how many, because it is not easy to transfer a rig at all of its people and all of its supplies in that kind of stuff. host: is not part of your -- guest: let me explain the context. i think what he means is that under the current moratorium, there is not work to do for the rigs and the question is how many of those have moved out of the gulf. i do not know, but under the moratorium they could potentially reach the area. host: are usually seeing that?

guest: -- are you visually seeing that? guest: i have not seen that myself. host: next call. caller: thank you, admiral allen, for your service. i actually worked on the oil spill. i saw the damage done. i sought the fishkill. i was curious, how are you -- i saw the fish killed but i was curious, how are you going to deal with the companies that brought in the locals in, and basically, a lot of them have not been paid. there are issues involved. i was wondering how the government is going to deal with this. i'm concerned for my own health right now. i did not get paid. host: what did you do? caller: i was on a boat near the oil spill.

host: are you feeling any health effects? he said you were worried about your health. caller: i have to get my arms checked i felt th " clearly view to take you to the justice department forced a responded to a regional, or colder. >> indictments and arrests said shed further light on a deadly pipeline that has rooted funding and fighters to al-shabab from

across the united states. an indictment was unsealed charging 10 men with leaving the united states to join al-shabab. seven of these defendants have been previous -- had been previously charged in the remaining three had not been charged before. in the district of minnesota alone, a total of 19 defendants have been charged in connection with this investigation. nine of these defendants had been arrest -- have been arrested in the united states or overseas. five of them have already pleaded guilty. 10 of these defendants are not in custody and are believed to be overseas. additionally, to united states citizens and former residents of alabama and california have been charged in separate cases with providing material support.

both are believed to be in somalia and fighting on behalf of them. one has appeared in several propaganda videos which have been distributed worldwide. he is believed to be ranking member of the organization. he has operational responsibilities. finally, to others who are naturalized citizens and residents of minnesota were arrested by fbi agents earlier today. they have been charged with providing material support to terrorists among other novices. the indictment alleges these women raised money to support al-shabab going door-to-door in smaller communities in minneapolis, rochester and other locations in the united states as well as canada. in some cases, these funds were raised under the false pretense

that would be used to aid the needy and poor. while our investigations are ongoing around the country, these arrests and charges should serve as an unmistakable warning to others who are considering joining or supporting terrorist groups like al-shabab. if you choose this group, you can expect to find yourself in a united states jail cell or to be a casualty on a somali's battlefield. as demonstrated by the charges unsealed today, we see an increasing numbers of individuals, including u.s. citizens who have become captivated by the ideology and have taken steps to carry out terrorist objectives either read home or abroad. this is a very disturbing trend that we have been intensely investigating in recent years and will continue to investigate and readout. we must also work to prevent this kind of radicalization from ever taking hold. members of the american muslim

community have been and continue to be strong partners in fighting this emerging threat. they have regularly denounced terrorist acts and those who carry them out. they have provided critical assistance to lot of force -- to law-enforcement to disrupt terrorist plots and combat radicalization. these individuals have consistently and correctly expressed deep concern about the recruitment of their use by terrorist groups. many members of the community have taken pro-active steps to stop the recruitment of their use by terrorist groups. recently, a group of prominent american muslims joined together in a video to repudiate the tactics employed by radicalized militants to recruit young muslims via the internet. there needs to be more recognition of these efforts and the losses suffered by the muslim community here and around world. many of the victims of terror

attacks by al-shabab, al qaeda, the taliban, and other terrorist groups are innocent muslims. they are innocent muslims. i want to applaud the tremendous work of the fbi's joint terrorism task force in san diego and mobile, alabama and i want to thank the dead klgp, the dutch office of international affairs, the state department including the united states -- the united arab emirates in the hague, the netherlands, and for their assistance in the minneapolis case in particular. these indictments and arrests would not have been possible of the gulf contributions from the national security division led by assistant attorney general david chris and attorney's office in minnesota, alabama and the southern district of california. all of them are here with me on the stage today.

i would now like to turn it over to the fbi executive director for the national security branch. >> thank you, attorney general, and good afternoon to everybody. today marks a significant milestone in our efforts to bring justice to members and supporters of the terrorist group al-shabab,, and to deter others who would seek to follow their example. as the attorney general just noted, today's charges and arrests give us greater insight into the evolving nature of the terrorism threat we face. terrorism organizations like al- shabab, continue to radicalize and recruit u.s. citizens and others to train and fight with them and provide support for their violent activities. our success in identifying and charging these individuals is due to the dedication and

commitment of law enforcement intelligence communities, specifically the joint terrorism task forces of san diego, mobile, and minneapolis. on behalf of the fbi, what to think the agents, analysts, offices of all of the federal state and local agencies to serve on this task forces. they have worked diligently and tirelessly to obtain and share information and carefully pieced together each element of these cases. i would like to join the attorney general in thinking our international partners. the cooperation of our citizens is critical to combating our effort to renovation and recruiting to terrorist groups. we are extremely grateful to the members of the somali community and extremely grateful to the somali community in minneapolis. i want to join the attorney- general in recognizing and banking the talented prosecutors serving the u.s. in mobile,

minneapolis, and at san diego, and especially those in the counter-terrorism section have done and continue to do exceptional work each and every day. while today's indictments and arrests are a significant step, our work is not finished. the fbi will continue to work side-by-side with our partners to see that justice is done and the united states remains safe. thank you. >> any questions? >> al-shabab recently claimed responsibility for the bombings in uganda. how do you assess the threat by them against this country? >> i do not think we have any direct threat that al-shabab is threatening in the homeland. but the fact that they have successfully been able to recruit americans to join the fight and expanded the range of operations outside of somalia

to you on that gives us pause. it is one of the things we are monitoring. >> since the first indications that people in the u.s. that people were willing to go to somalia or support al-shabab to now, do you think you have a good handle on the extent of their recruitment and the willingness of people in the u.s. to join up or are you still in the early stages of identifying how serious it is? >> i think we have a good handle on it, given the outreach effort we have made to the somali community in the united states, also the intelligence efforts we have underway. the good work being done by the joint terrorism task forces in the united states and our work with our foreign counterparts. i think we have a good sense of what we're facing. it does not mean we are not concerned or think this is something we have under control. this is something that will

require constant vigilance and i think a great deal of work. >> from the beginning, when the young men from minnesota were found a couple of years ago, what we have heard from the fbi and justice department is that it appears most of this is the nationalistic. people who wanted to fight because ethiopia had invaded their country. what has changed in the intervening years? >> early on in our investigation, if you have been following it, there have been waves of travelers. i think we have a good handle on those in 2007, 2008, and 2009. there are indications from our work that the initial motivation was based more along the lines of nationalism with the events with ethiopian and african union forces. but it has morphed overtime and

i think this third superseding indictment where we have added five additional defendants, three of them are new, i think we have a good handle on our traveler cases. quite frankly, along with our fbi counterparts, we have done pretty good work in the somali community in minnesota. it is a vibrant community, the largest somali community in the united states and they have been very helpful because the bottom line is it is their kids that have been recruited. in some cases, they haven't up as casualties in somalia. parents are parents and are very concerned. we have had a good effort, but to answer a question, that may have been an initial motivation but it has morphed into other things we're keeping a close eye on. >> is there anything you can put your finger on as to why al- shabab has had such success?

it seems like they're getting a lot of recruits. >> if you look at the indictments, there are indicators about their recruiting techniques and the demographics of the communities they have been targeting. it is young men tell young people and they are a difficult points in their lives just like any normal american teenager and there are certain hawks they can draw people into and -- certain hooks they can draw people into and that has been a concern for us. the underlying basis for any success we have had with our somali community on the out reach front. >> you mentioned the risks that individuals to go to somalia flight risk being a casualty on the battlefield. are you signifying it ramped up efforts by the u.s. to combat al-shabab in country? >> what i meant by that

statement was those who decide to join might run the risk of either ending up in a jail cell or being a casualty on the battlefield -- i say they are running the risk of being killed by those who are opposing al- shabab in somalia. i was thinking more about the fight over there as opposed to any efforts on our part here to target anybody. >> related to that, do you know any or how many of these individuals indicted today have been designated as special global terrorists which will allow the u.s. to target these individuals? it is a chaotic environment and there have been reports in the past of u.s. ground attacks against terrorists there. are these people potential targets for u.s. attacks? >> i would not want to comment

on what action the united states might take or get into things that might be intelligence- derived. >> do any of these people have specific beefs against the u.s. or plan to come back and getting here at all? people who want to fight over there? >> [inaudible] >> can you tell us about the involvement in -- with yemen and the united arab emirates -- was their role in the investigation? >> again, a lot of these investigations, and there are many more that are not included today involving some of the somali american community traveling. those tentacles reach overseas and we continue to work with our partners overseas. in this particular instance, as the attorney general noted, they have been very helpful. we are extremely grateful for

their cooperation. >> so flying through these countries in some cases? >> i am not going to comment of the specifics. it is still ongoing investigation. >> you mentioned that there is someone in the leadership role al-shabab of -- do you know in what capacity? >> i feel safe in saying he has assumed an operational role in that organization. >> might he have played some role in carrying out the bombing attack in uganda? >> i will not comment on that. >> there have been reports has become a key facilitator for getting financing for the group. >> i do not want to go beyond what i have already said which is that he is an operational personal and in that organization. >> how would you define that?

>> know. >> some much of an impact of those videos had? there are a trend of cases we're seeing out where there are individuals have no relation to this group and they want to travel overseas. >> he has made the videos in the are of concern. that's why it particularly important that the recent effort done by leaders in the muslim community on video to counter the message he has been spewing was so important. the voices need to be heard from the other parts of the muslim community that really represents where that community is. we are talking about a french part of the community. that has to be recognized and has to be understood for what it is. people who are trying to kill

innocent muslims in addition to those people who identify as westerners. these are people who are murderers. we will hold them accountable for their actions. >> thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] m [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> shortly plan to go live to the state department for their release of the 2009 terrorism report, a report congress requires every year which is happening at 12:30 eastern time here on c-span. until then, a federal court judge in california yesterday overturned the state's ban on gay marriage. we spoke with a writer from the "san francisco chronicle." >> the ban on gay marriage overturned in california. is joe garofoli, staff

writer from "the san francisco chronicle." what happens next? guest: this case is definitely onhe way to the supreme court. the ruling has been stayed, so right now you cannot wash out and get married, gay folks cannot rush out and get married right now. it will go to the ninth circuit court of appeals, a three-panel judge will hear it. that could happen sometime in the next several months. from there it goes to the supreme court. host: the ninth circuit court, it is liberal or conservative? guest: it isonsidered one of the most liberal in t nation but it will be heard by a three- judge panel that is randomly selected. and though it is generally liberal, but there is a large ideological spectrum so you could get some conservative folks on there, too. host: you write about this that the ruling from yesterday

provides guidance. what do you mean? guest: it provides guidance that in four other states, other folks who would like to challenge same-sex bands in their states, some legal scholars are saying that judge walker's ruling provides a road map for them to accomplish the same thing in other states. host: household? -- how so. guest: same marriage is a fundamental right and gays have been denied their rights under that. host: judge walker, who is he? guest: u.s. district court judge, chief judge. he is a reagan appointee. he comes from a republican background. he is the person who wrote the ruling today. host: beuse said that this goes to a panel on the ninth -- you said this goes to a panel on the ninth circuit court, in a few weeks. guest: probably be several

months. host: when and how does it get to the supreme court? guest: likely, however loses when it gets to at level will appeal it to the supreme court. there, it seems like ian anthony kennedy will provide the swing vote on that. that is what some legal scholars are expecting. host: when do you expect it could get to the supreme court? guest: looks like it is headed their right smack in the middle of the 2012 presidential election season. that will be one for all the candidates to chew on. host: before then, we have the elections this november. does the judge's ruling yesterday impact the governor's race there and the senate race? g, california voters have a clear choice on that one. in the governor's race, democrat jerry brown support same-sex marriage. his opponent, republican meg whitman, opposes same-sex marriage, although she is forcible unions. -- for several unions.

-- civil unions. host: does this impact other states? guest: what it does is it provides a template if other gay marriage supporters and other states would like to follow the same legal road maps. it is a risky road map because of this does go to the supreme court, some folks who support a marriage are worried that if the supreme court rules against that it becomes the law of the land and it could send the >> we are waiting for the state department meeting on the state mandated report on terrorism. a live report beginning here shortly at the state department. in the meantime, the social security and medicare trustees' report was released today. the treasury secretary, tim

geithner, had comments while we wait for the state department briefing. >> thank you for coming. the social security and medicare board of trustees met this morning to complete their annual financial review of these programs and transmit the reports to the congress. i want to welcome my fellow trustees and acknowledge the hard work and dedication of the chief actuary in particular. 75 years ago this month, president roosevelt signed the social security act into law, creating a program that tens of

millions of americans rely on to help them retire with economic security. 30 years later, president johnson signed amendments to the law creating medicare, providing health insurance for older americans. this year, president obama signed into law the affordable care act, giving americans more control over their health care decisions and will improve the quality of health care and help address insurance company abuses. this law also takes major steps to bring down the rate of growth in health-care costs over time. the positive in back of these reforms is made clear by the trustee reports. medicare's hospital insurance trust fund is now expected to remain solvent through 2029. 12 years longer than was projected last year, a record

extension of the life of the trust fund. the 75-year shortfall has been reduced from 3.8% of taxable payroll to just .66% of taxable payroll and projected costs of a supplementary program over the next 75 years express is a shared gdp is down 23% from what was projected in last year's report. in addition, the affordable care act also improves social security's finances. while the recession has taken a toll on the social security in the near term, the long-term outlook is nevertheless approved as a result of the affordable care act through provisions -- >> you can see this entire treasury department briefing on c-span.org. we go live now to the state department for the annual report on terrorism required by congress.

>> to start off, we have to of the country's most distinguished counter-terrorism experts here to help understand the current trends in global terrorism. our coordinator of the office of counterterrorism at the department of state, daniel benjamin, and that the department of the national counter-terrorism center, russ travers. we will start with daniel benjamin first. >> thank you very much. good afternoon. thank you for coming to the briefing. besides filling a congressional mandate, the reports on terrorism 2009 gives us an opportunity to review counter- terrorism events worldwide. we hope the report will stimulate discussion and to serve as a useful tool for

policymakers, the public, and international policy makers. please do bear in mind the report covers events that occurred from january 1st to december 31st of 2009. this report was originally scheduled to be released on april 30th. the delay was to ensure the report was accurate, comprehensible and as readable as possible. the first chapter of the report provides a strategic overview of the terrorist threat to the diet states and u.s. interests abroad as well as a description of the setbacks and advances of al qaeda and its affiliates. the report includes a country by country discussion of foreign government counter-terrorism cooperation as well as chapters on weapons of mass destruction, state sponsors of terrorism, safe havens, and designated foreign terrorist organizations. al qaeda cop -- al qaeda's pour in pakistan remains the most formidable terrorist organization challenging the

united states. it has proven to be acceptable and resilient terrorist groups whose desire to attack the u.s. and interest abroad remained strong. al qaeda was actively in gauged in operational planning against the united states and continue recruiting training, including individuals from western europe and north america. al qaeda suffered some notable setbacks in 2009. the group remained under great pressure in pakistan due to pakistani military operations limiting strongholds in the tribal areas. al qaeda faced a number of significant leadership losses, and as a result, found it more difficult to raise money, train recruits and planned attacks outside of the region. the group continued to suffer from widespread muslim disaffection due to recent and past indiscriminate targeting of muslims by its operatives and allies in algeria, iraq, saudi

arabia, pakistan, indonesia and elsewhere. the number of conservative clerics and former militants speaking out against the organization has increased considerably. despite the setbacks to the core leadership, the broader al qaeda threat has become more dispersed and more geographically diversified. that served partially to offset the losses suffered by the core group. we saw this most dramatically with the attempted december 25th bombing of the u.s. commercial airliner destined for detroit. this incident demonstrated at least one affiliate, al qaeda in the caribbean the initial plug -- al qaeda in the air raid in the and peninsula, has the desire to strike abroad. there is some community to the ideology. while the overall radicalization

problem remains less than many western nations, several high- profile cases demonstrate we must remain vigilant. as you know, five americans from virginia where arrested, tried, and found guilty in pakistan of offenses and live seen americans traveling to somalia to join al-shabab, and just today we had the indictments of 14 more individuals in terrorism- related cases as well as another in chicago yesterday. we have also seen u.s. citizens rise to prominence as opponents to violent extremism. one person in california has been able to target its propaganda to western audiences. another man who grew up in alabama has become important voice on the internet. the most notable american is a -- the most notable is 80 yemeni american has captured those two

others have failed to reach. the most important person who he touched was involved in the attempted detonation of incendiary devices on the northwest airlines flight. we should make no mistake about the ideology -- he's not just an eye out -- not as an ideologue, he is plotting terrorist attacks against americans. he was designated by the treasury department under special -- under executive order and was added to the un 1267 committees -- you in committee list of those associated with al qaeda or the taliban. the un committee listing requires all un member states to implement an asset-freeze, a travel ban and arms embargo against them.

other than al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, some of the other most active allies were in africa. in somalia, several al-shabab leaders have claimed loyalty to al qaeda and have carried out numerous attacks in somalia and is responsible for the assassination of a number of somali police activists, international aid workers, civil society figures, and journalists. the july 11th attacks for which they claimed responsibility left 74 dead and 70 injured and appears to be the first terrorist operation the group has carried out outside of somalia. in north africa, operatives from al qaeda in the islamic moderate kidnapped foreigners, sometimes working with local tribesmen nomads. the operations under government orders have posed a challenge to coordinated state responses. i would like to note it's not

only their where we have seen a move toward kidnapping for ransom. we have seen it in somalia, afghanistan, pakistan, and yemen. we urge our partners are around the world to adopt a no concessions policy to hostage- takers so we can diminish this alternative funding stream in these regions. compounding the threat of terrorist organizations as the active or tacit support of state. iran has long been a state sponsor of terrorism, supporting hezbollah as well as costs and other palestinian rejectionist groups. their financial, material and logistic support for terrorist groups throughout the middle east and central asia has intimate -- as a direct impact on efforts to promote peace. it has threatened the economic stability in the gulf and jeopardize the tenuous peace in southern lebanon and undermined democracy. syria has provided political and military support to hezbollah in

lebanon and allow iran to supply them with weapons. it hasn't -- has provided safe haven as well as political and other support to a number of designated palestinian terrorist groups, including the loss, palestinian islamic jihad and the popular front for the liberation of palestinian demand. in our counter-terrorism efforts, defense is a central part of the equation, but another part is engaging with other countries being used as platforms by terrorists and working with them to contain, reduced, and eliminate these threats. given what we have seen over the last few years, pakistan and yemen are the countries of greatest concern. let me speak briefly about the efforts with these countries. pakistan we must remember is a front-line counter-terrorism partner. where al qaeda operatives have been killed or captured in pakistan and anywhere else, the people of pakistan from political leaders to soldiers to ordinary citizens have been

targets of pakistan each terrorists. -- pakistani terrace. we commend their resolve to combat those who would undermine the stability of the country and what is progress. we provide a spectrum ranging from police to anti-money- laundering efforts. over the past year, we've seen encouraging signs, but we recognize the work of violent extremists and working to constrain it. military operations have limit did -- have limited and damage the ability of extreme as groups. we see increasing cross border cooperation with afghanistan, which is instrumental for reducing keep militant safe havens. in the wake of the pakistan military operations, we of seen

public dependent -- public opinion turned decisively against the militants. in late march, with the beginning of the strategic dialogue with pakistan, we started a new phase in our partnership. in the initial meeting with secretary clinton and the foreign minister of pakistan, the secretary underscored the commitment of the united states to stay with pakistan to confront challenges along with the foreign minister, reaffirmed our support for the people and government of afghanistan. while our partnership with pakistan extends well beyond security issues to discussions and strategic dialogue, it generated new momentum and mutual trust jointly tackle extremist groups who threaten both pakistan's security at american security. i recently returned from cochairing the law enforcement counter-terrorism working group of the strategic dialogue. this working group which included representatives from the fbi, the department of justice, treasury, and the department of homeland's

security, focus on three major issues -- establishing a cooperative law enforcement network, finance, and border security. let me turn to yemen. we recognize al qaeda as taken advantage of insecurity in various regions of yemen which have been worsened by internal conflict. we know that yemen is grappling with serious poverty. it is the poorest country in the arab world. the lack of resources hinders good governments, the this region of resources and the security provisions needed to deal with terrorism. to any chance of success, u.s. counter-terrorism policy has to be considered in strategic and not just tactical terms. the administration has adopted a two-pronged strategy, helping the government confront the immediate security concern of al qaeda and mitigating the serious political and governance issue the country faces over the long

term. what we're doing in yemen, pakistan and many other countries around the world is building capacity. consistent diplomatic engagement among counterpart so and senior leaders of to build a counter -- helped to build -- one of the central challenges to our security is to weaken breeding grounds for terrorism and insecurity. we can help with capacity- building programs. we are committed to addressing these shortcomings that allow terrorists to operate freely by promoting effective civilian law enforcement, the governess, and the rule of law as well as the delivery of public services to the general population. capacity building includes counter-terrorism finance training. represent a whole new approach to this problem. you can read more about our multi lateral work in a chapter

5. the challenge we face is clear -- citizens from dozens of countries around the world, the vast majority of them not from the united states are being victimized by terrorism. as president obama and his fellow g-8 is rated in the recent summit, we are committed to broaden the multi-counter- terror is an umbrella and meet the president's charge to innovate and improve the international architecture for the threats of the 21st century. there is much more we could say about what we're doing on counter-terrorism, but at this time, would like to turn it over to the national counter- terrorism center of russ travers's to talk about the statistical aspects. i look forward to your questions. >> thank you. good afternoon.

each year, we compile statistics and what i am going to do is go to a series of charts to give a very broad overview of our conclusions. the charts are available so that you don't have to take notes on the power point. to methodological point. we use the statutory definition of terrorism -- premeditated, politically motivated violence directed against noncombatants. a very broad definition. as a result, we count things like insurgencies' directed against civilians. other important point -- you do not top things like attacks in iraq against u.s. and military. so afghanistan military attacks do not count. it can be a little arcane. the methodology itself is explained in great detail at our website. all of the numbers, all of the

power point, all of the actual incidents, there is a mapping retain -- it's a very user- friendly web site. there is a great deal of data on the web site. global polls, 2005-2009, the blue incidents, the red fatalities. take a look -- we are 11,000 total incidents, roughly 15,000 total fatalities. in both cases, numbers are down a few percentage points from last year. we have emphasized for several years that global totals are not a particularly useful way of measuring success against terrorists. we have roughly 250 groups catalog last year in 83 different countries with different agendas and locations. adding up doesn't mean much. you have to really start disaggregating by region and country. so i will peel the onion back all little bit. here, you have a regional break out -- six regions across the x

axis. the color codes for the bars of the last five years of data. most of the activity, as has been the case for the past several years, has been in the near east and south asia. this past year was about 75%. another point to make is if you notice in the middle east, what we have seen of the last three or four years is a substantial decline in the total number of incidents. in south asia incidentals have crept up. south asia has proven to be more violent than the middle east. the rest of the world is basically flat. within the total global total, three countries drive the numbers. iraq, afghanistan, and pakistan account for 60% of total attacks and fatalities. so i will go down a little more -- next please. iraq continues to be the country

with the most attacks and fatalities. we're looking last year at about 25 attacks, about 3600 deaths. the focus on the -- about 2500 attacks, about 3600 deaths. we see very substantial increases in 2005 and 2006 and substantial declines in 2007. to a lesser degree in 2008 and 2009. we're looking at a 60% decline in attacks since 2007 and fatalities are down about 75%. there has been some reporting in the past few weeks that we are seeing a substantial increase in 2010. that is simply not the case. our data is out on the web site for the first quarter of 2010 and you see no increase. even quality control in the past three months, you do not see any particular increase. i would be happy to answer questions about that the end. the map on the right-hand side

gives you a sense of where the tax are located. for the most part, its baghdad. that has been the case for the last few years. afghanistan and pakistan account together for about one-third of the total global attacks. here again, the region immediately adjacent to the border has been or most of the attacks have occurred. in the case of afghanistan, we looked at a substantial increase this past year. 2100 tax, almost 7100 casualties -- 2100 attacks. ied's are the weapon of choice. we're also seeing increasingly sophisticated tactical operations, so that we may see a great deal of literature focusing on the bomb by attacks from a couple of years ago in india and a lot of terrorist

discussions about how to conduct those kind of attacks. so we see things like multiple targets, these of diversionary tactics, in the case of afghanistan, the individuals in uniform, the afghan national army uniform. the use of ambulances to evade individuals being watched. they will try to breach defensive compounds, get inside a building, used small arms and explosives, maybe attack quick reaction forces and have suicide bombs to evade capture. a gradual increase in the level of tactical sophistication. in the case of pakistan, the growth of a tax is relatively small. we did see a 30% growth in the number of casualties. . the number of pakistan the pressure on the militants

substantially lowered our efforts of where we were in 2009. we were on par for a substantially worse year, but the militants were under pressure. for the first time, pakistan slightly surpassed iraq in terms of large-scale attacks. attacks in which more than 10 people were killed. and also surpassed iraq in the number of suicide bombings. in afghanistan, we saw numerous large scale attack coordinated, the continental hotel, the cricket team from sri lanka, a substantial number of attacks by militants in pakistan. we also saw and continue to seek growth in a tax of the settled areas. in 2005, what was called the northwest frontier province, we had 16 attacks. last year, there were 940. that's increase by factor of 50

over the past several years. iraq, afghanistan, pakistan are 60 percent of the totals. the other 40% -- the u.s., the main story has to be the growth in islamic extremist attacks culminating in the failed attack on christmas day. in total, 25 americans in the united states or abroad, noncombatants that is, lost their lives. in south america, the story is largely the far. an organization under intense pressure, we see numbers of people leaving and melting back into the population. they were able to conduct an increased number of attacks last year. africa, al-shabab we-in somalia, the organization which conducted the uganda attacks. they were second only to the taliban last year with a number of attacks claimed. the other major organization in africa is a christian

organization that conducted heinous attacks in uganda and the democratic republic of congo. al qaeda in the arabian peninsula in the middle east operating out of yemen conducted -- conduct attacks not only in yemen but an attack against the saudi royal family and inspired attacks in the united states. the other important organization in the u.s. -- here they are under tremendous pressure in algeria proper. we saw the fewest number of tax in the month of ramadan that we have seen in years. they did a good job in algeria proper. in russia, the story is largely about the caucuses emirate. the head of the organization indicated he would reestablish the suicide brigade last year. he did and they had 15 suicide attacks conducted, far more than

we have seen in the last several number of years combined. he said he would carry out attacks direction heartland and the data with the train attack last fall. lastly, in asia, a mixed picture. we saw the first substantial attacks in indonesia against it by -- against the two hotels, the ritz-carlton and the marriott, the first attacks in several years, followed by some serious counter-terrorism operations in indonesia. india witnessed growth in the numbers, but there were largely malice attacks. we did not see any thing like the ujahadeen attacks was shot in 2008. in sri lanka, attacks were down greatly, but 38 press members lost their lives, that was the most significant attack on the press we have ever catalog.

let me take a quick functional look at attack methods. the upper left-hand corner, you can see the graph which tax -- which tracks suicide attacks which peaked at about 500 in late to of seven. in to the snake, down 25% at last year, down to about 300. both afghanistan and pakistan had more suicide attacks and iraq last year. the focus is often on suicide attacks, but frankly the architects of bombing predominate around a world. in terms of the large the tax, those in which more than 50 people are killed, that is the graph on the lower left-hand side, those have come down because of the numbers in iraq going down. here, we see a tremendous range in sophistication. some are reflected the attributes of globalization. we see you to but to collect money and impressive commic