as part of that process, we have launched an initiativeo improve efficiency and reduced costs. the goal will be to get better buying power for the taxpayer. we plan on providing more details of this effort in early september and our intents for this initiative to begin ongoing programs immediately. even with these underweight, i have concluded that there were a number of areas that we can take actions, starting now, and not wait for the normal budget and program process street today, i am announcing decisions designed to improve over head. these initiatives vary in size and levels of achievement.

it ranges from personnel and their work to organization of structures and business practices. it represents an initial step of efciency and savings that will be incorporated more fully into the budget request. i will summarize them briefly and then take some of your questions. copies of this statement will be available at the end of the session and we will brief in more detail and answer questions. to the initiatives. first, over the last decade this department has seen a decrease in contractors 26% of the work force cost in 2000 to 39% a year ago. in some cases, contractors may

be performing functions that should be done by full-time government employees. last year, the department announced a plan to reduce the number of service support contractors. over -- were necessary, we have filled them with full-time government employees. based on the data, i am not satisfied with the progress. accordingly, to accelerate this process, i have directed that we reduce funding by 10% a year for each of the next three years. fuhermore, as i will explain in a moment, we will no lonr automatically replace fl-time personnel. second, is the expense of the office of the secretary of defense, the defense agency's and command staffs.

much of this growth has emerged since the tender love it. and there was no decrease in activities and that have become less relevant. there was not much incentive to do so. as i have said, the department much set priorities and make ll trade-offs and separate appetites. this is one way to force this painful but necessary process. therefore, i am directing a freeze on the number of os the positions no organizations will be created after this fiscal year to replace contractors. some exceptions can be made in critical areas.

this is the first that of command staffing and organizations. we will conduct a review to determine what our people should be doing and what level of rank in keeping with the most critical priorities. i expect the results of this effort by november 15 of this year. third, the proliferation of new staff and more layers of bureaucracy is a natural consequence of the substantial increase in the most senior leadership. general and black officers, a career senior executives and appointees require confirmation. over the past decade, the department has added what is a high and historical baseline for senior personnel. for example, since september 2001, the number of general and black officers have grown by more than 100, including now 44 short positions.

-- 40 four-star positions. this is a situation where personnel of higher and higher rank are assigned to the things that could be handled by personnel of low or rank. this was fuelled by the desire to increase bureaucratic functionality. -- bureaucratic reason rather than reflecting the scope of the job itself. in a post 9/11 era, more and more responsibility, including strategic consequence decisions is performed by junior officers.

for example, unlike most other commands, four star components remain in europe long after the end of the cold war and long after e vast majority of deported. we need to create a system of fewer and more agile respoive structures were reductions in rank at the top cascade downward and outward. addition to the number of senior positions, there is a question of their allocation and whether or distribution of rank by geography or function reflects the mission and reality that our military faces today. i am directing a freeze of number of civilian senior executives, general and black officers and other positions. furthermore, we will assess the number of senior positions, the

date old or new, as well as the overhead and accouterments that go with them. i expect this by november. at a minimum, i expect this effort to recommend cutting it least 50 positions and 150 senior civilian executive positions over the next two years. this will represent the to% of the positions -- t%. that is unknn. there are great benefits to be gained in costs and efficiency by taking a advantage of this. the problem is, to many parts of claim artment's separate infrastructure and process. all of our bases have their own infrastructure and application. this decentralization approach will have a patchwork of

capabilities that create formally started therefore, i am directing an effort to consolidate these assets to take to damage of the economies of scale, but creating savings and acquisitions. this action will allow the increase by the departmen of common functions and improved our ability to defend networks against growing cyber threats. this department is awash in studies. in 1970, the pentagon produced a total of 37 reports. a number that top of that more than 700 reports and the last year's cycle. in 2009, the department had nearly 1000 contractors working in some capacity to produce reports for the congress, of which more than 200 were working for time.

-- full time. a good numb of these reports were internally generated, including my own office. at this time, nobody knows what the cost and there is little basis to determine whether the value gained is worth a considerable time and resources expended. i have directed that we will freeze the overall number ofot require oversight reports and will immediately cut the dollars out of the the advisory studies by 25%. we will publish the actual cost of the proportion of the report and study prepared by the dot on the front of each document. by october 1, we will conduct a comprehensive review of all reports and use e results to reduce the volume generated internally. in addition, we will engage e congress to meet their needs while working together to reduce the number of reports.

the department will set up outside boards and commissions, 65 in the case of os be alone to oversee our activities and provide independent advice. some of these entities will provide more or less. these bodies still require substantial support, $75 million for os e alone including staff and indirect costs treated i am ordering -- indirect costs. i will cut the overall funding available for study is. -- for studies don't know it is no great secret that the u.s. government has seen a proliferation of new intelligence organizations and operations since 9/11. this is partly due to the intelligence. even so, in the defense arena,

the large staff structure exists in the services, the defense agencies, the combat commands and in the world theaters. to some extent, we are still struggling to find the right balance to find a value between intelligence functions and embedding them closer to the front. nonetheless, we should not flinch when eliminating unnecessary redundancy and directing more resources to places where they're needed such as certain specialties in short supply in the theater. i am directing an immediate 10% reduction in funding for intelligence contracts and freezing the number of senior executive positions. we must also take further steps to end it needless duplication within the department. accordingly, i have directed a zero base repute of intelligence missions, relations and contracts to be completed by

november 1. these steps will only apply to the department of defense intelligence organizations, and it has been indicated that there is an interest for a coordinated effort for the national intelligence organizations. the last decade has seen a siificant growth of new offices and organizations, including two in new agencies. the flattening in trimming structures will eliminate organizations that perform duplicative functions or outlived their purpose. the office of the secretary of defense was set up in 2003 when the policy oversight and advocacy functions for command control and communications was little from intelligence. the resulting arrangement that

includes a similar function of the joint stuff, has since become redundant, costly and cumbersome. therefore, i have directed the elimination of nii and j6 operations. this will be assigned to other organizations and will transfer. we will stand up and refashion the chief information officer and the responsibility of the early operations will be assigned to the defense agency for it -- defense agency. since its creation,, bta has shifted more of its focus to day-to-day oversight of individual acquisition program started this has largely been

legislatively assigned to other elements of the department. therefore, i have eliminated the agency and shifted his responsibility to the deputy chief management office. finally, the joint forces command was originally established and compelled to everything the it military does. it was understood at the time that it created an extra lay in the management process. the benefits of improving this out with the resulting bureaucracy. since then, compelled by decades of operational experience, the u.s. military has embraced it as a matter of culture and practice, although we must also remain vigilant. training joined forces, creating joint forces and

periment with that doctrine, they do not necessarily require a separate four-star combat command, whi entails a about 28,000 military positions. i am recommending the closure of this department. theemaining responsibilities will be evaluated and those determined to be essential and still necessary to protect will be reassigned to other agencies. all told, as a result of closing or consolidating these three organizations over the next six months to a year, a substantial number of full-time employees will have to find other positions or no longer work for this department. like millions of americans affected by this tough economic climate, i know these changes will likely mean real hardship

for displaced employees and their families. accordingly, i have asked the undersecretary of defense for personnel and readiness to work with the leaders of the affected organizations to assist employees in what may be a difficult transition. i doo with great appreciation and admirati for the service these employees have rendered and i hope that we can find new ways for them to offer their expertise and experience in service to our nation. the ultimate success of these initiatives, as well as the other reform will depend on a change of culture and attitude across our defense institutions. the culture of endless money that has taken hold must be replaced by a culture of savings and restraint. towards this end, i am directing that any new proposal or initiative, large or small, be a policy, programs or whatever, come with a cost estimate. the price tag will help us

determine if what we are getting is really worth the cost in dollar tms or in the diversion of limited manpower. as i have said a number of times, the way to make sure something gets done in this building is to set short deadlines and provide oversight from the top. to see these initiatives through over the next 90 to one under 20 days, i have appointed a task force chaired by my chief of staff. this task force will develop action plans and transition to department leadership. these initiatives represent an aggressive effort, not only to reduce costs, but to a reform of the department. this effort will not in this issue.

in style and habits of restraint, of subtracting as well as adding, of elevating affordability is a project that is years in the making. i hope and expectation is that the efforts will lead to the kind of cultural changes that, over time, become part of the department's dna an institution. in closing, i want to reemphasize tt this agenda is not about cutting the department's budget. it is about reforming and reshaping to insure that we can focus defense resources to america's fighting forces and most important, for men and women in uniform. let me just add, before turning to your questions, to see these initiatives in context, i think

you need to step back and see them as the next move in a process that has been going on for two years. it began at the university in my speech in 2008. the decisions on the alternate engine for see seven teams earlier this year and the eisenhower library speech. i am determined to change the way this department has done business for a long time. earlier decisions i have identified are part of a broad campaign that will be on going. today's announcement represents a down payment to demonstrate that i intend to continue to move aggressively to achieve the broad goals of making this department more efficient, but also ensuring that we put our resources where they're needed.

>> you mentioned some of the high-profile cost-saving efforts. given that several of those, including the engine one, the have so far failed to convince congress that this is a way to save money. what confidence to you have that the virginia delegation that stands to lose multiple thousands of jobs is going to go along with this? >> first of all, in april of 2009, most people were deeply skeptical. we were successful. the position that i have made

clear, to which the president has spoken on the alternate engine on c-17's is also clear. that bill, i am confident will be vetoed. any bill that takes the alternate engine and more c-17's to the president wilbe vetoed. i think that you have to have some perspective, here. just to take the example of the virginia delegation. it is as a result of these efforts -- if, as a result of these efforts, va. may come out with a lot more jobs than it loses. this is why the point needs to be emphasized again and again, this is not about cutting the defense budget. this is about a -- a

reallocation. the issues are not as -- this is actually very good. for one thing, there are two things tt make this different. this is not a budget cutting exercise. the services get to keep the savings the identify and invest them. in the past, they have been called off. the have lost programs. they can add to that.

the congress and this bill in, under the current economic circumstances and budgetary pressures will see this as an opportunity to protect our force mornization. that i havet say talked to the leadership of both the operations and appropriations committees. i expressed this in broad terms and i talked about the eliminations and so on and the people that i have talked to were supported. >> to make comments earlier that you were against unwise cuts in the budget. is that a fear that you have

right now? do you feel that if the steps are not taken that there will be pressure to take more drastic action? >> i think that if we are to make a compelling argument for sustaining the top line, we have to demonstrate a compelling argument that we have tackled the things that worry them. pour acquisition practices, poor business practices, excessiv reliance on contractors, waste, abuse, we need to be able to show that we are doing something about these programs in a systematic way that affects every part of the department. i think that under those circumstances, we have a pretty good opportunity to make our case. my greatest fear is that in

economic times, and that people will see the defense budget as the place to solve the nation's deficit problems and to find money for other parts of the government. my responsibility to the president into the congress is to present them with a program that i believe is necessary to defend this nation. as i look around the world and see a more unstable world, more failed states, countries investing heavily in their military is, as i look at places like iran and north korea, as i look at the new kinds of threats emerging, my greatest worry is that we will do to the defense budget will be have done four

times before. that is to slash it in an effort to find some kind of dividend to put the money someplace else i think that would be disastrous. in the world environment that we see today, and what we are likely to see in the years to come, if he were to grant the defense budget going back the last 40 or 50 years, it would look like the cagey of a defect related heart. -- of a defibrillated part. if we are able to make sensible decisions and not have these giant increases andiant decreases that make efficiency and doing acquisition impossible. it my hope is that through all of these efforts, we will make a persuasive case to the congress and to the american people that

we are spending tax dollars wisely in the department of defense and in areas where they would like to see it spent and that is in capabilities and in our structure and any investment for the future. >> you said that you're not happy with the results that you got in the direction that she gave last year. what makes you think you will be any more successful in driving through some of the changes that you want to make between now and november 1? >> part of the problem is that as we were reducing contractors, we will not see in the savings that we had hoped. the way to get a contractor -- the problem with contractors and what we have learned over the past year is that you really do not get contractorsy cutting people.

you give a contractor a certain amount of money and they hire however many people they think that they need to perform the contract. the only way that we have decided that you get at the contractor base is to cut the dollars. if you add it up, we are looking at cutting a third of the budget over the course of the next three years. that, we are convinced, is a way to get a handle on this problem. >> if you go to a place of -- like afghanistan, there were thousands and thousands of contractors. there wer2000 contractors training afghanistan forces as opposed to 900 from nato. talk abouthat as being a problem with the allies not pulling their weight and then contractors doing the jobs that used to be done by a soldier. >> first of all, i think that is mixing things.

nato -- our partners have done a lot. if you had asked the a year ago if we would have nearly 50,000 partner troops in afghanistan by this summer, i would have thought that a very tall order. i think that they have come through. there are still shortfalls and the primary shortfall is about 750 trained individuals. we're continuing to work on that. there are a lot of things that contractors to that soldiers used to do. peel potatoes, do e dishes. i think that contractors should do that stuff. if i have a highly trained combat infantryman, i do not want him doing that stuff. that can and should be done by contractors. i think it is sensible and is cheaper in some respects.

i think that the other aspect of it is that it is a transitory issue. the number of contractors in iraq has already come down. at some point, we will see that happen in afghanistan. this is a phenomenon that started a long time ago and has excel rating significantly. -- and has accelerated significantly. >> what are the key things to put the money into? >> i think that the services get to kee the savings that they fund. my intention is to take the savings that we find from other parts of the department and

provide those to the services. the defense agencies, the savings that we find there, they do not get to keep. our intent is to provide that to the services. i think that everybody realizes that we probably need more money. that would be an area that i would look to when it comes to the navy in terms of not only letting them keep the money that they identify for the purpose, but if i could provide some additional resources in that area, each of the services has that in that respect. we have had this conversation before. of the overall procurement

budget, and i get a little impatient that everything is about providing for today's wars, but out of the overall procurement budget, about half coast towards modernization programs. the joint strike fighter, the new missile pgram, new ships, the tanker. the next generation long-range strike. the new ground combat vehicle for the army that they will be starting on to it all of these servicesave these organization programs. half of the procurement budget goes torso's modernization programs. about 40% of it goes towards things like c-17s. only about 10% goal for the war so year end. the cost of the wars that we are in is paid by the overseas contingency operating funds and by supplementals. this is not about finding money

for the wars that we're in today, we have g that money. it is about protecting the money for the future. >> when you talk about reducing intelligence contracts, other concerns of the redundancy on the intelligence side as well as civilian side? >> luscious say that i am -- let's just say that i am -- it is hard to believe that in all of these different element the services, the defense agencies, the combatant commands, that there are not redundancies for duplications. it has grown by leaps and bounds over the past decade. i read about that in "the washington post" series. i think that the thing that people haven't focused on is that that was not just about

terrorism. a lot of that was the intelligence for foreman to fight these wars that we are in. i think that nobody has stepped back and looked at all of this. i do not remember this ever being done. if it is done on the natiol side and we do it side by side, i think that we will certainly have savings to be found. we do not need to fire people, but rather the reverse. to take people who may be doing redundant jobs here in the u.s., and if we are short that kind of a specialist in intelligence in afghanistan, to provide -- to cover the shortfalls of staffing in afghanistan with some of the savings that we find in people

who are not in theater. leing aside the money in the people, it is hard for me to imagine that there's a lot of duplication. >> what is going to happen to the general? >> i have talked to the general about this and he it supports the decision to eliminate the organization. as i indicated in my remarks, i suspect it will take about a year to carry out this change and i have told him that his assignment is the same as his assignment in iraq and that is to work himself out of a job and then i will find a new and better one for him. >> there is one expse that you did not mention, and that is health ce. how much longer can you see the

growing costs before you really have to pass on those expenses in terms of premiums for reduced coverage? >> health care reform is on my agenda. some of these efforts are part of the third track that we were talking about. we have studies that will help. they involve logistics. they involve health-care and personnel policies. i think it is safe to say that there are no sacred cows.

i believe there is a growing understanding about this. it costs us $19 billion in 2000 and 2001. it will cost us over $50 billion in fiscal year011. when the topline -- is unsustainable. therefore, it has to be a part of our effort. >> you are not exactly working yourself out of a job with all of these initiatives. heavy may a decision as to how long you will stay? >> first of all, i think it is important to stress that i believe that this is not just about me. i believe that the service secretaries, the chiefs, ash

carter, the comptroller, i belie the senior leadership of this department in this administration is committed to all of these activities. and normal and, general car run, they are very supportive and they're dng some things and are more for reaching them some of the things that i have talked about. i think that there i broad support in the leadership -- and of course the deputy who, on a day-to-day basis will end up managing this. all of the senior leadership of the apartment from the deputy and the chairman on down is supportive of this. i have every reason to believe that whenever i leave, that these efforts will continue.

the esident is committed to it. the congress is committed to it. ihink that a lot of this will continue. , all ias i'm concerned will say is that i will be here longer either i or others thought. >> mr. secretary, these are major changes that you're discussing. is this the tip of the iceberg? the see the need for a further tightening between os thd? >> i think that this is a dynamic process. i expected to continue. is not the work of one year or one budget cycle. i would not describe it as the tip of the iceberg, but if 90%

of an iceberg is under water this is a pretty good percentage of it. we have a four tracks under way. i would tell you that the services are thinking about some pretty dramatic things. they are not ready to fill out -- to talk about it and they have not made any decisions yet, but the options they are looking at are impressive. i think that this will be an ongoing process and i think we will learn as we go along, as we get into these things, i think we will learn some things that will give us some future opportunities or targets or what ever you want to call them. i think we have to keep after them. last question to >>

>> it sounds like you are describing something. i actually thi that the qdr has value. i think that the outside -- what i told corporal perry, but i think the outside review of the qdr would be better bid for the qdr to assess the a kind of agenda that the qdr will look at. it can inform the qdr. having it come afterwards is of limited value because it is already done.

people are doing all kinds of things with it. i think the qdr has about you but the outside review is better done at the front end up the ocess. thank you all. >> in a few moments, but the debate between republican candidates for governor in georgia. in half an hour, the economic impact of community health centers. after that, president obama talks about his education agenda at the university of texas. later, technology and protecting our borders. a couple of live events to tell you about. the agricultural department conference on civil rights and diversity will include remarks from the assistant secretary for civil rights and the georgia commissioner of labor. that is on c-span2 at 8:00 p.m.

eastern. at 10:00 a.m. eastern, a look at the 2010 census. discussion on field work already done and data processing that is still ahead. what i would tell you, based on review of hundreds of hours that they are not conspirators. they are not saying what you think about this? they really do not know what is going on. >> this week marks the anniversary of the 1974 resignation of president richard nixon and also 40 years later, look back at the players at characters that made history. that is all free, history, your way. >> the candidates in tomorrows georgette republican primary runoff for governor met yesterday in a final debate. the winner of the race will face a former democratic

governor the debate was organized by the atlanta press corps. this is a half hour. tonight, the republican runoff for governor. >> good evening. i am the host of "all things considered." we welcome our television viewers, are live studio audience, and our listeners on a radio to the 2010 primary election runoff debates. the debate tonight is organized by the atlanta press club. this is the debate among the republican candidate in the primary election runoff for governor.

let's meet does to a candidate now. they are nathan deal, a former congressman, and karen handel, a former secretary of state of georgia. here is our formats. in the first round, each candidate will answer a question from one of our three panelists. in the second round, the candidates will ask questions of one another. each candidate will have time for every bottle. in the third round, the panelists will continue questioning the candidate. finally, each candidate will have 30 seconds to make a closing statement. let's meet are three distinguished panelists selected by the atlanta press club. first, erin hayes, a writer for the associated press. next we have charles richardson.

our final panelist is the reporter and producer for "morning edition" for public broadcasting and atlanta. first-round has each candidate being passed a question by one of our panelists. the candidates will have 60 seconds to answer each question. as a moderator, i will determine whether a rebuttal is necessary. >> good evening, secretary. this question is for both of you. over the weekend, the governor pledged to bring unity to the republican party. are either of you willing to make this same pledge here tonight? >> we will give you each 60 seconds. >> absolutely. in the republican party, we talk a lot about competition. we believe that competition is good. i think that those four

campaigns as well. it has been tenacious. i think that makes us stronger candidate spread so absolutely. for the state and for our party. having a republican is what is going to be in the best interest of georgia. >> i am a very dedicated republican as well. i do not think i have run a campaign which i have been divisive. i have not caused this party to have divisions. i am not the candidate who has attacked our fellow candidates in this primary election process. it is gone to take some time to be able to heal some of the ones that have been inflicted here. i look forward to the opportunity to be a part of what we will be doing going forward. i believe that i will be the nominee and i believe i can beat him in november. >> charles richardson, in the short turn to ask nathan deal a question. >>

>> why would anyone want to be governor of this state? we have a $16 million shortfall that does not count all the millions that we have taken out of the budget. what would you do specifically to get georgia back on track? >> to answer your question, why anyone would want to be governor, you have to believe that public service is an honorable undertaking. and i have believed that for all of my adult life. i have served at every level in government in trying to make things better for our state and our nation. that is why i want to be governor. i believe that tough times requires people who can make tough decisions. i am the only candidate who has put forward a proposal for tax reform that i believe is the way to make our economy grow.

one-third in the country in terms of a favorable business climate, and i think that is what we do, grow ourselves out of this downturn. >> that concludes round one. now the candidates get to ask questions of each other. you have 30 seconds for the question. 60 seconds to respond, and the questioner will have 30 seconds for rebuttal. by random selection, nathan deal asks the first question. >> karen, as you know, georgians have pushed for conservative budgeting for our state, commonly known as zero based budgeting. ended discussions that we have had, you had indicated that you did not favor going to a zero based budgeting approach. i would simply ask you why not,

and what would be your answer to getting this budget back in balance? >> nathan, you know that that is not true. you have been on the campaign trail with me. what i have said consistently is that i do not need legislation to do zero based budgeting. i was already doing it in the secretary of state office. i will obviously sign that. but i do not needed to actually do it because i come from the private sector. i did not build my career in washington. the way to balance the budget is to start with zero. by our ties programs every single years. just because you got so much money this year does not mean you look at the same amount next year. certainly we need to have a serious budget constraints put in place. i am the only candidate who has proposed permanently downsizing our state government. >> mr. deal, you have 30 seconds. >> i know that that is not what you said. early in our discussion, i know that what you said was that you did not need anything to require you to do it.

but families don't need anything to required to do it either but that is what they have to do. that is the responsible thing. look beyond where we are instead of just saying to bureaucrats what the priority arts. that is what i would do as governor. >> thank you, mr. deal. karen handel. >> nathan, a few commented several times that that job governor is been a chief executive officer of this date. i like to share specific examples of your executive management experience where you have actually manage the budget day to day, managed a team of employees, and actually implemented programs where you are being held accountable for the results of that initiative. >> i'm glad you asked me that, karen. unlike you, i am a small business person. i started a small business. i had to make payrolls and major that my employees got compensated. that they have the coverage that they need. it is true that i have not work for fortune 500 company like

you have but i have managed the business. i think that that is the important and vision. as a member congress, i had demanded a congressional office in iraq average return over $100,000 every year of the money appropriated for my office, because i can disown efficiently and i understood the importance of making sure taxpayers' money was handled appropriately. i think that i had the experience, i think i'm the only one who has that, quite frankly, and i have done that for many years practicing my profession for over 20 years in a small community here in north georgia. i think that is the best way people can understand how budgets work, to actually have to live up to one. >> miss handle, if you have 30 seconds to rabat. >> this is one of the key distinctions between myself and my opponent. i bring executive management experience to be the ceo of this date. as the ball in county commission chairman, i was responsible for a $1 billion budget -- a $1 million budget. -- a $1 billion budget.

i have also run a small business, the chamber commerce, where i was responsible for leading that organization, bringing it to in sought -- to solvency. >> make the deal, you may ask your second question. jim and karen, we've all talked about the importance of having good transportation solutions. i have been but one that had set for example that on highway 400, we should remove the toll, because we have collected the money to pay for. we promised the people using the road rather north bolten or those above that they would not have to pay a toll was the project is paid for. which you support holding on existing roads just to raise revenue for the project? >> absolutely not. i would support tolling for new

capacity. i would support bringing it down if we were not going to invest those >> back. but as someone who travels georgia 400 every single day, if you look at the models that had been out there, removing the tolls would increase congestion by 18%. do we want to upgrade where it comes into the connector and make sure that we can have expanded capacity on 400. when to invest the >> in that area, by all means, bring that down. >> i think it is important to live up to our obligations in our promises to the public. if we're going to ask them to accept toll roads in the future, we have to show a good faith in what we have done. i am one of those that believes that these good people who had paid this call for all of those

years should not be asked to continue to pay it just for other projects, even if it be a project within the general card. i don't think that is the best way to solve the solution to the problem of transportation gridlock. we need to show good faith to the people who trusted us because if we did not, they will not trust us again. >> thank you, mr. deal. karen handel, last question in this round is your second question. >> yesterday i asked you if you believe it was appropriate for elected officials to do business with the state. you said that it was, and as you know, i come from the private sector. in the private sector, that would be deemed a conflict of interest. if you to possibly expand on your explanation on why you think that it's ok for elected officials to do business with the state. >> karen, i understand that you have never had an elected

office that is not a full-time job. one were you were not paid a full-time salary by the people of this date. the general assembly members are people who are part-time legislators. that is what republicans stand for, people who will serve their government and their communities and then also at the same time be in the private sector earning a living on their own. i simply said that i do not think we ought to punish those who are willing to offer and a part-time capacity at a very minimal income. if you're going to totally prohibit that, i suppose we should have prohibited the secretary of state's office from buy computers from hewlett-packard. i don't think those of the kinds of restrictions that

people want. what they wanted transparency. want to know that things are being done appropriately. that is what our law requires that i have confidence in the members of the general assembly as they sacrifice their time, and their families time, in order to assert that the people of this date. >> 30 seconds for a bottle. >> actually, i did hold a part- time position, and at the county commission, that was my part-time job and i did not do business with the county. that is something that we're simply going to disagree with. conflict of interest is that parton -- is a big problem in our state. it is important that those people are not benefiting from doing the business of the people. i proposed comprehensive ethics reform and why as governor i will be a strong at the co- leader making sure that you and have trust in the decisions that i am making on your behalf. >> that includes our sat round of questioning. for those that may be joining our program in progress, this is the debate among the candidates for the georgia republican gubernatorial nomination in a primary runoff coming up this tuesday. for our third round, we return

to our panel of journalists who will ask questions of the candidate of his or her choice. and also as questions of both comic just indicate which candidate or both. candidates will be allowed 60 seconds to respond, and as moderator i will determine if an opposing candidate will be given 30 seconds for rebuttal. will begin as round with a question from edgar. >> the whole scholarship is expected to run out of money. enrollment is going up and georgia's colleges and universities. what are some ideas that you have to save the program? >> we want to make sure that we are being data-driven as we look at the hope scholarship. it is in -- it is too important for us to make a mistake and how we had just buried a couple of things -- hope needs to remain at achievement-based. we are fortunate that the legislature did put in place

and triggers that is when it as a couple of years of a safety net so that we can make sure that we deal with this issue in the right way to preserve it for a long hot. and as we make changes, we have got a model that out of cost four to six years to make sure that we are sustaining it in the long term. i want to make sure that yesterday in the debate my opponent made quite a subject of the fact that i do not have a college degree. it is precisely because i do not have that degree that i'm going to be the strongest champion of hope that we have seen in a long time. i know how important that this program is. i want to make sure that every young person who wants to go to college is going have that opportunity to do so. if mr. deal, said she brought something out of that you said yesterday, if you have 30 seconds. >> it was not me that brought it up. it was the first question was asked of mr. handel. i was just asked to comment as well.

i think it is important to keep the hope scholarship success- based. it had been a great program for keeping students to might otherwise migrate because of their excellent grades to other states. will do everything i could be working for robert l. of the to make sure that it continues. >> our next question comes from ms. haines. >> this congress -- this is for congressman deal. securing georgia's borders and your thoughts of the idea in congress to change the 14th amendment guarantees citizenship for people born in the united states. and as you may know -- thank you for the question. i have been the leader of that issue of birthright citizenship treated as one that our country will adopt. we are one of the few -- only 33 countries in the world still rent birthright citizenship. i don't think the 14th amendment was ever grant -- met to grant's this is shipped to people illegally in our state. terms of what a governor can do, i have been active in that issue. two of the four counties that's currently have the opportunity to participate in enforcing immigration laws are in my congressional district. i was instrumental in helping pass that.

i will tell you about who they are and what kind of services they provide, how well they are

doing, and the economic activity. one of the unique things about kennedy center's is there are four requirements by law and order to be a community center. that is some of the reason for their underlying success. first of all, they have to be located in a federally designated medically underserved community. that is defined by a number of things. they have a higher poverty and more folks who live in those deborah's are under the federal poverty level. there are fewer primary-care doctors in those areas and there are other health indicators that looked at this such as higher than average infant mortality rates. the second requirement is they have to provide comprehensive health care services. that is beyond the kind of services you generally think about. they have to provide care for everyone regardless of their ability to peg. there is a standard sliding scale the.

when people go there, people will be charged a fair price last like, -- last, they are governed by a community board and this community board, 51% has to be patients that are served by the health center. that is one reason why they can address issues in the community and target those needs. who are health center folks? the slide on the left is the help center population that compares to the red one on the right which is the u.s. population. 70% of the folks scene and health centers -- seen in health centers are under the poverty level. they see a significantly higher percentage of folks on medicaid.

they also do a great job serving minority populations. compared to the u.s. population, about 33% of the folks scene and health centers are latino or hispanic, 21% are african- american and 15% are the balance. when we think about health centers, you think about getting your checkup and shot and seeing -- being seen for your call. they also provide dental and mental health services and other specialty services. there are enabling services or supportive services. 89% of health centers provide interpretation or translation services. 79% provide weight reduction

programs. 91% are doing case management for illnesses as well as other services that folks need. 89% are providing services that ask patients what else they need. all of these services are delivered at the centers and we have seen some great outcomes. we have done lots of studies that have shown how they compare to folks being seen outside of health care centers. many people have been right about this over the 45-year history of health centers. when we provide these services in this way in local communities, we also see cost savings because what happens is we are keeping people out of the emergency room and keeping them from being hospitalized unnecessarily. between 10% -- between $10,000,000,000.20 $4 billion can't be saved by providing more care to help centers.

-- between $10 billion and $24 billion can be saved by providing more care from health centers. they are offering more preventive services and they are showing how minorities scene and health centers are doing better than average. the point of the paper was there was a fairly large investment on the recovery act that went to health centers and they could demonstrate what they did with these dollars. we think about improve outcomes and all the things i showed you. what is less known and thought about is the extra economic activity that happens in these communities. we described these communities which are poor and have hired minorities.

overall, we look at numbers that are in the affordable health care act. in 2015, health centers will be generally in economic activity about $54 billion in these targeted communities. this is going to sustain or create 457,000 jobs. we actually broke that down to see what percentage is directly as a result of the increased funding. community health centers work identified early on in the health reform discussion as being a unique place we needed to put more financial incentives into. they can serve 32 million americans that will have no coverage. there are $9.5 billion in operating costs over the next five years going to community centers. let's look at this investment. we can see from the investment

we have an additional $33 billion as a result of the health care act. 284 million jobs are because of the affordable care act. is important to realize that we put this money into community centers but it does not just stay in those walls. it allows them to ramp up and see more patients for they have extra rooms. they have after wings. sometimes they have an extra entire location curre. they will increase jobs as a result. there is a very elegant model that allows us to look at what is happening outside the health centers. there is a reduced cost.

the health center has to buy more furniture, new computers, all of those things that generate indirect cost in the neighborhood. those indirect costs were hiring more people and those folks, some of them have jobs for the first time or better jobs and they can go buy a washing machine or other cars. they are generating additional income. you can see over the $54 billion of total economic activity that will be generated by health centers in 2015, $31 billion is inside the health center but the balance is outside. the 457,000 jobs, 286,000 of them are with and the walls of the committee center and about half of them are health professional jobs.

about 40% are the ancillary staff that helps within the health center and 171,000 jobs are jobs that are created because of the increased economic activity. that is the exciting dollars and cents piece of this. we will turn it over and hear from some folks who are doing the real work. they are providing the services. they can help you see what it looks like when this money comes to a community center and what they have done inside the walls and outside the walls. bacon also tell you what they can do because of the economy and what they -- they can also tell you what they can do because of the economy and what they have done. we will walk up to the dais to introduce the rest of our panel. >> thank you.

hopefully, you guys will enjoy the discussion. i have the chief operating officer at london community health center. stephanie is the chief operating officer. she also served as a national spokesperson for recovery experts for the red cross. -- she has lived in loudoun county for 20 years. rebecca zse is the director of the community health center in new york city. she holds a master's in public administration from new york university and is a licensed family nurse practitioner. she lives in queens, new york.

finally, daniel hawkins is a senior vice president for public policy and research at the national association of community health centers. he provides federal and state policy related leadership. he was the director of a community health center located in south texas was a an assistant -- an assistant to the hhs director during the bush administration. he has been named one of america's most influential health policy makers. thank you all for joining us. why don't we start with you, dan? tell us what health centers are and what they do and who they

served. >> thank you. i want to thank the center for american progress. i want to thank ellen-marie for a fabulous report documenting a forgotten side of the benefits that come from the presence of a community health center in a typically low income community. health centers -- this is the 45th anniversary of health centers. they started in the mid-1960's. they were a direct response to a unmet needs that were not being met by the rest of the health- care community. we decided some years ago that even for those who work day in and day out at the health centers and it can be enervating work beckon with you down, everyone needs a pick me

up. a way of celebrating the great work that help centers do was to designate a week as national health center week. we have done this for the past decade or more, recognizing the work of the health centers, but most importantly, the work of the people who are in the health centers providing care every single day. so many of the folks that work in health centers are community residents. many of the professionals, many of the positions and nurse practitioners and pa's and ceo's of health centers come from the community. close to 90% of the health community -- health center committee professionals live in the area they work. this is a tremendous benefit to the community not just economically but in terms of being an anchor in the community.

my own health center helped keep the lab services company, a dental supply company alive. in that community and allowed them to continue providing their benefits and services and supplies. because of our presence in that community. they really are an anchor in communities that have too little in the way of economic development. a couple of my colleagues here, one of home ran a health center in the early days and came into work in washington, d.c. and john marshall who ran the federal agency that oversees and administers the health center program in the 1960's enter the mid-1970's. they are both here and they can tell this story well. >> you mentioned earlier the

crucial service the community health centers play in terms of defining illnesses in health care crises in our nations. >> what is the secret of their success? the health centers are firmly grounded in their community. that community board, there may be some who are expected -- are skeptical. i remember my own board early on in my tenure as a health center director, i was young. some of the consumer board members came to make and told me and spanish that they did not know what they were doing. they asked if they wanted to -- if they should step off the

board and -- be replaced with pharmacists and doctors? i said that is not your job. i said their job is to know the community and understand the needs of the community and to bring those needs and to the governing board and speak to them and do something to respond to the needs. no one can do the job better than that. it was true. whether it was teen pregnancy, family violence, obesity, the epidemic of obesity, what ever is going on in the community got children getting injured on playgrounds, no one knows that better than the people who live there. that is the role that these community board members serve. to be grounded in the community is critical. the second thing is, they occupy the most opportune place in the health-care system, right at the entry point where quality health

care can yield enormous improvements in health and save billions of dollars to taxpayers. the care that is provided -- help centers are not only far above their peers in private medicine but also well ahead of the healthy people 2010 goals for people who received mammograms and pap smears3 . one out of a pregnant women in america received treatment from health care. mother and child are cared for at the health center as well. one out of eddie -- every eight pregnancies in america comes to the community centers, the help of the baby is better and the wait is better.

it is that preventive and primary health care that helps. for those who have a chronic condition like diabetes or high blood pressure, health centers have shown they do a better job of controlling that through group visit, planned visits, literally putting the individual in charge of their health condition and saying you can do it. all that matters. those are some of the major things that help center's focus on. they have been shown -- there are no health disparities within the four walls of the health center. if they need a specialty, salt or need to be hospitalized, they run into barriers but within those four walls, there are no disparities. not by race, not by ethnicity,

not by income -- income, not by insurance eligibility. >> that is a gray segue to rebecca. you worked in the health center in new york city for a long time. your center is known for its innovative outreach program for the community. can you tell us about that? >> we have been around for over 30-something years. i want to echo what dan was. we are community-health driven. everything we do is focused on the community's needs. we constantly do not want to do the same thing status quo. we accept what the community needs are based on the board's suggestions and based on the community use it. we have done surveys on an

ongoing basis to see what the community is asking from us. recently, with the stimulus fund and the change in the economy, we have seen many, many changes. one of the local community health centers was closed down after almost 50-100 years. [unintelligible] we help the same persons in the community. we try to recruit some of the staff who had a job in that center to work for us. we tried to create similar system to recruit and bring help to the patients into our system. that is what we have been doing. we worked endlessly with the state, with the city, with the federal government to be a pioneer and a testing site to

make quality care better and bring it to a higher level and make the system more efficient . recently, we work with the new york department of health prin. usually, your primary-care read -- refers you for a colonoscopy they probably refer you to gi specialist. in new york city, we try to break the disparity. they use us to try to create space similar system. if they pcp refers the customer, what is the percentage of compliance? 100% is the answer. by doing that, they will bring this usage as the example and

bring it to the community to go and create a similar and more efficient system for the community. we are located near wall street. for many years, we have never seen any wall street bankers. [laughter] for the past year, things changed. i have actually seen more wall street bankers lost their jobs and lost their insurance and then they came to an area -- they never thought bay would use our service parian -- they never thought they would use our service. i told them that if they use our service, they will move on and have a job that fits their needs.

with the stimulus money, we want to better serve the community. in order to have an efficient system, you have to make sure that your staff are really capable and knowledgeable and ready to meet the challenge. for the past two-three years, we have had the opportunity to increase the capacity and the knowledge of our staff at different levels, not the ceo, coo, but everybody. the front lines that are the ones that receive the patient at the door and they are the ones that have to do the job. do they know what they are doing to the best of their knowledge? do they know the change to the health-care system? we seek opportunities to bring them to a level to advance their

knowledge and skills and better serve the community. that is what we have been doing at the community health center. >> you mentioned there was a clinic that closed that was close by? what percentage of the patients did you taken? >> we worked with managed care to create a similar system. we took on about 40%-60% of their population and some of the staff. we did this in a proactive approach and make sure all the medical records came to us. that is very, very, important. >> your example about the bankers -- we don't have bankers but stephanie m. loudoun county,, with many jobs blanc,

you have only been in existence for two years. you can when the recession was starting. what has been your experience in loudoun county? >> we are one of the new kids on the block. we have been in existence for three years but two of those three years, we were not funded with federal funding. we were really struggling. about 10 years ago, the community leaders came together and decided to solve the problems that we were having in terms of health care in our community. there were many things going on. loudoun county is and what was the fastest growing county in the united states. we have a population of about 300,000 people now. it has probably tripled in the last five years alone. we are also now one of the top- 10 fastest-growing minority populations in the country.

we have many things going on. while we were growing that rapidly, many people were attracted to jobs in the housing industry. we had home builders, realtors, we had landscapers, we have all sorts of people related to the big housing boom that we were saying. in terms of being a high-tech capital for the east coast, we had, but is likeaol based there andci. aol recently moved from loudoun county to new york for their headquarters. when the economy fell into decline, there was suddenly this ush of joblessness that ghit what used to be a cooking community. we have many people who are out of work and houses are no longer worth the same.

the realtors are out of business. people who had been employed by companies like america online no longer are working there but they have started their own businesses. entrepreneurs decided to stay in our community. typically, of entrepreneurs and small-business others cannot import -- afford insurance. we have a large uninsured population. the hospital gave us a big start a branch. -- a startup grant. we were struggling to make ends meet. before we got the stamp -- federal stimulus funding, we were seriously considering layoffs. we started out with only five employees and we grew a little bit but we are not a big help center.

and the time we have received the funding to continue, we now have 30 employees. we are growing rapidly. we have seen about 6000 patients in three years but the demand is still really high and we have a wait list of about 600 people waiting to establish care with us. we just don't have the room or enough staff. in the future, this is what we hope to do and we hope to open facilities and hired new staff to meet the demand. it is out raises that there are 600 people that we cannot find appointments for. >> what do you think are some of the challenges that you will continue facing? other than the money coming from the health care reform, how will that help you and what are the challenges? >> space is our biggest challenge. with more space, we can see more patients.

that means we have to hire more people. that means we have to bring on more computer equipment and all the things that you were talking about earlier. growth is our biggest challenge in being able to meet the demand. in northern virginia, we particularly have to face the challenge of transportation. out tot have metro loudoun county. there is limited public bus routes. it does not go regulate like in an urban setting. we don't have taxis that you can hail on the street corner. transportation is a base problem in northern virginia. what we hope to be able to do -- we have a situation where we can tap in and get taxicab rides for our patients who do not have cars. we will have a taxicab pick them up and bring them to their medical of women and bring them back, dan.

-- and bring them back home again. we will pay for a taxicab to drive our patience two hours to uva for specialist upon as the transportation will continue to be a problem. trying to keep up with demand and growing and building new health centers where they are most needed will be the thing we are looking to the future for. >> there was an article today in"the washington post about s.taining talent sprin can you tell us about that, especially in rural areas? >> the single biggest challenge i see is that health centers, especially with the new funding that is coming to them in the

health reform act is the work force, finding the health professional, the positioners -- the physicians, the nurse practitioners and others who will be needed to staff additional center sites answer the additional population. fortunately, other parts of the health care bill contains a very good signs. the national health service corps and a young woman who is the subject of the story in the article in ""the washington post" this morning is a member. in return for the services she offers in an underserved or in the area, the national health service corps has received a big boost in funding both as a result of the recovery act when

health centers receive some of the new funding that they could put to use. the unemployed wall street bankers and aol started coming to your centers looking for care, the recovery act included funding to expand by about 7500 health professionals. many of them have gone to help centers already and are working there. the young woman of the article today is one of them. the health reform act contains additional funds that would triple the size of the national health service corps allowing them to place 16,000 health professionals. every one of them will be primary care. medical care, dental care, mental health care, we're not talking thoracic surgeons. we are talking family

practitioners, pediatricians,obgyn's. those of a kind of folks that the national health service corps will help wet. that is not enough. a young lady who grew up in the northern virginia area, the maryland suburbs, feels out of her element in our rural southwest virginia. we need to grow our own. we are partners with an osteopathic medical school years ago and we are now producing 100 osteopathic medical students per year for primary-care going into residents say, many of home were actually sponsored by local health centers called operation home town.

that school is now brazil -- producing about 100 dentists per year for primary care. that is good but it is not enough. we are seeking partnerships with the country's medical, nursing, and dental schools to find a way we can replicate this program and find more people from the community. the woman who runs my old health center today is a pediatrician. she was a patient there when i was a director. the family brought her into receive care and to receive care at the help center for a number of years. it helped her to see. she was a student intern during a a couple of summers when she was in high school. this was enough to instill in her a real desire to learn a health profession and come back and give back to the community. that is exactly what we need more of. that will be the crucial difference.

>> ellen-marie, do you have any reactions to what has been discussed? >> one thing we wanted to with this panel is to see the difference of community health centers. there are 8000 of them around the nation. when you have seen one health center, you have seen one. they are run by community boards and these are very different centers. the ancillary services that we live up to the community board to choose, you can imagine that the translation services at one site, the dialects are changing. another service is transportation which is more important in loudoun county but not so much in new york city.

the other thing is to highlight how we see the difference in the late economy. -- in this economy. loudoun county can't continue and expand but there is a difference in services that they wang center in new york city, it is interesting to see how different they have become. you talked about going into the garment district and other places. they do out reach. you can't do it now because of your waiting lists. hopefully with the new bonds. i want to make sure that we highlight that there is a big fear and concern if there would be enough people served under the affordable care act.

i think we can see how we have this at hand and have the capability in the foresight that n.e policy makers put in paren with the 8000, you can look at the other folks who are out there who look very different. >> the point i was going to make was that back in 2000-2001, one of the things we are proudest of his bad health centers have enjoyed strong bipartisan support from republicans and democrats and independents over the years. 10 years ago, president george bush as part of his campaign claimed that he would grow the help center program and doubled in size in his term in office. he succeeded he pressed, chris to provide additional funding for health centers.

congress responded and did. everybody worried if there was going to be enough primary-care practitioners to staff these new health centers? 10 years later, there are twice as many physicians, 2.5 times as many of nurse practitioners, four times as many dentists because the health centers has six -- has expanded to accommodate dental services. they served twice as many people. with funding, they will double that number in five years. 40 million people by 2015. after 35 years of work in and with and on and about health centers, i am absolutely confident that they will succeed. >> that is a good point. people are concerned about the

money doing what it is set out to do. we saw the money going from the recovery act and we saw things come from that. hopefully, they will do the not the same thing in the next five years. -- they will do the same thing in the next five years. >> just last week, we learned that when the recovery act funding was first provided to help centers across the country and stephanie's was one of 125 new ones that were funded, in march of last year, the federal program managers projected that help centers would add services to serve an additional 2.9 million people over the two- year period of the funding. they were already at 2.1 million

people last year and last week, dr. mary wakefiled announced that help centers had served an additional 2.7 million people in 15 months. they will blow past the 2.9 million target. their original target was the 1.1 million would be uninsured. they are already at 1.5 million. these folks are social entrepreneurs. they are not in it to make money but they are making lemonade every day. they are doing great work. >> ellen-marie, in your report, you outlined the economy in the

communities. what were some of the highlights of that report? >> is important that we see employees coming to the health field -- to is important that we see employees coming to the health field -- it is important that we see employees coming to the health field. we want to see how much the community is growing. in some of the rural areas, the community health center is the engine. they are the core in that community and the anchor of helping the community survive. when you see the jobs being created -- we talk about sustaining, as well. these are not jobs that were created necessarily because of

the closing of st. vincent's but you could keep your center opened so it was not necessarily a loss. some folks lost jobs will get employed by bell local state polls -- employed by the local staples because you are using the local staples. >> i think we are ready for questions. we have a microphone right here. let's go to the gentleman back there. >> thanks. i want to thank you for the great work you are doing. about 36 -- about 30% of school age health care is sponsored by chc. houses research apply to a school based setting? >> one thing that health centers do and what i studied in west

philadelphia was a satellite. it was maintaining these jobs within the health care jobs community. what is important is that one thing is that what you describe as a perfect example of the ability to offer service in another place that does co- located and coordinated with the site that is available 24-7. as a satellite, you can provide care where it is more accessible. the services can continue in a comprehensive way when you were court made it with something like a community center. the things you do predated the minutes clinics. you did not want to create two different isolated ways of delivering care.

we would like to see more of the nursing centers, school based centers become incorporated into things like the community center and as we leave more toward electronic medical records, either by the the spoke from this of and the ability -- from the us hub and the ability to be that important in the community. >> over here? >> i am with the institute of social medicine and community health. the discussion has primarily been the induced a fax -- e fax on the community -- effects on the community. as a model for health care delivery within the system,

within the community and geographical area it serves, to what extent can some of the lessons of the effectiveness be translated into improving the efficiency of health care delivery at the geographical level of the community and the region? >> that is a great question. thank you for raising it. the major purpose of health centers from day one was to bring health care to communities with too little. they were agents of care but also needed to be agents of change. to change the way health care is organized is the point. that is a lesson they can bring. in small but significant ways, it has had an impact on the rest of the health-care system.

most health centers have gone through the health disparities situation. this was created about 10-12 years ago before. clinician tames, health professional teams, not just positions or the dentist but a team of physician, nurse practitioner's, pharmacist would an environment ma using the chronic care model that term health care from a reactive system to a proactive health delivery care system. when i talk with my colleagues, i have found that not only did it fundamentally change the way

that health care is organized and delivered to the absolute benefit of the people who receive that care, it also put those individuals in charge of their own health and their own destiny in many ways. instead of feeling like a victim of diabetes or a victim of hypertension or a victim of asthma, people would learn and could learn to take control of their health condition and learn what they could do to improve and maintain their health. i cannot tell you the number of times i have heard clinicians' tell me about an individual who called them ecstatic because their hemoglobin blood sugar level for diabetes was now the lowest ever. they were thrilled and they were doing it. they were testing their blood sugar every single day. in many ways, this has allowed

clinician's to be cared rivers but also to be cheerleaders, cheering the individual and a group of patients because the user group patients with diabetic and hypertension. that is life altering for a person on the receiving end of the care. this is also fundamentally life altering for the clinician's to give care. this health disparities collaborative have been the biggest boosters for clinician's that felt like they were at the bottom of the cycle. all they could do was reactive to respond and not be overwhelmed. instead now, it is pro-active and is what our health care system should always have been about but it -- but it is not.

we need to turn from success care to health care. that opalescent that: -- that is the lesson that health care professionals need it has contributed to different reports and studies that the care in health centers is superior in many cases to that offered in other settings. >> a couple of years ago, we worked with the community to have a healthy heart coalition. we had commercial partners. we established the manual. at a restaurant they have a separate menu for the low calories. this is what is healthy for your

heart. we worked with bakeries. they have a list of low, healthy, diet bakery pastry less. iat. they gave the community a choice. that is what we have been doing. >> i think we will have a high cadre of people exposed to this kind of care. a wall street banker will not settle for different things. loudoun county people will want that from their health providers. there is a big discussion of moving to the medical home. i think of this as good primary

care and coroneted and comprehensive. with the health centers, because they move beyond the care that is delivered in the health-care system but realize the importance of the translation is this moving towards the place that helps you to negotiate the proper health care system. as we had more and more models of the new models of care and characterization's of medical homes, can have health center care is the model of how we move into the future and what we would like this and possibly at some point of health,. >> we bring this back to the last person? >> good morning. the metrics used to determine the medically underserved areas

have not been updated since, i think, 1978. how is them reflect the actual need in under reserve populations underserved populations? >> first of all, the metrics are proportions. it is the rate of poverty, the population over 65, injured mortality, low birth rate, and primary care room physicians to population. even though the demographic 7. have changed, and there are areas that have lost their status because of gentrification or something like that i am a believer, and by the way, let me say that because they are now 30 years old that the methodology, the criteria being used, even as they have been updated with new

data from the census and from other sources, they are still -- so much has changed in america but they need to be updated. that is why last year we supported legislation that ended up in the health reform act that calls for a negotiated rulemaking process to specifically update both the health profession shortage area in the process. i am pleased that it became law. it is now about to be implemented. i am pleased to note that i was appointed to lead negotiating room making committee. we strongly support meeting to update the process. having said that, one thing i believe in is that once the center is funded there's only one set of data that matters, okay? this determines whether it is needed in that community and that is the demographics of the very people it serves.

fairfax county today does not have a community health center because the party in that community, and there is poverty, is washed away by the great wealth. it is almost impossible to get a designation even though you and i both know that there are pockets of people who desperately need this in fairfax county. the sale loudon county will come back, it will be strong, what would happen? if the demographics were to lie about the designation that you have today? here is what i maintain. let's look at the stephanie health center data. what percentage are uninsured? what percentage are for? what percentage rely on public support like medicaid or the children got to health insurance program? what proportion are people of color? what proportion of people are at risk for for held comes and poor

health status? to me, the measure of her success in her house hunter success will not be a demographic process. and now to be in the numbers she produces the their meeting a continuing need in this community regardless of what happens to the demographic of the larger community. that is what really need. that is what i hope to be able to accomplish the negotiated rulemaking, -- process. once we fund a health center in the community, let's look carefully at the demographics of who that health care -- health center serves in making the termination of continuing to put resources in there and invest in the community in the future. >> off of what you just said, we have identified a tremendous need in loudon county for a pediatric center. there is one frequented in the

county that only cares for adults. there is really not anywhere else for children to go. because of a 600 person waiting list, we cannot would return with children certainly. we are on target opening in a pediatric center for specifically low-income and children on september 1. this is without federal funding because we cannot wait. the demand is there now. help in the future to get funding for the center, but we just cannot wait. we looked at the demographics and we know the demand is there. we are moving forward regardless of federal funding to meet our community's needs for a pediatric center. >> live up by wall street, yet your committee is one of great needs also. >> do is list of additional

funding, right? how do think that money will be used for the community center? >> i will lead rebecca and stephanie tell you how they hope it will be used. here is a reno. the formal care act provided $11 million in new funding for health centers of the next five years. that is above and beyond the current $2.2 billion annually fund -- annual funding that will continue to receive, we have, from the congress of the next five years. the 11 billion is in the bank already. was directly appropriated, guaranteed funding it will be released in growing amounts on october 1. of the $11 billion, or $1.5 billion is for facilities. other than work force, the next greatest challenge that health centers face is based. when i ran a health center, i

had a mantra. always have something, it is either not enough money, not enough space, or not enough people. sometimes all three. typically all three. those are the challenges that health centers face. with the health reform act, the money problem is not totally solved, but it is a good way down the road toward being resolved. the space challenge will be a great one. the $1.5 billion is about 10% of what is needed. for health centers now and in the future, to grow and serve those 40 million people. the other 90% will have to come from private sector, state funding, philanthropic support. it probably will not provide everything she needs. she will have to leverage other resources locally. that is a big point. the other 9 $5 billion will be

released to support operational support. it will give stephanie and rebecca the resources they need to hire new staff, perhaps read some new space, buy supplies and other things they need to actually begin providing care. it is that $9.5 billion that will be the capacity to serve 20 million more people on top of the 20 million served today with the $2.5 billion annually. already, last friday, the secretary of hhs, catherine civilians -- sibellius, announced they will have applications for the new access point. i believe it is $250 million of that $1 billion in fiscal year

2011 of new funding that will be available. applications of the accepted some time in the fall. hopefully, those new health centers will be funded sometime in the winter and can begin providing care. it will go that way each year for the next five years. >> how would you use the new money that would come? >> welcome and we know right off the bat. [laughter] we've are out of space. we cannot higher support staff because we do not have any place to put them. the facility we are in is very nice, but it is a very limiting. the very first thing we would do would be to build a brand new building. we have an architect in the community that helped us design a plan for the building that would include 18 exam rooms, 10 dental offices, exams base for our mental health workers,

prenatal care, you name it. it just depends on the other services we might identify in the community. we already have a really good base and a real good feel for what we would do with that funding and we have a space fixed out. >> that is great. >> for us, we tried to offset the needs of the community. lots of patients want to be seen on the weekend. we have been opening on five days initially and then we increase it to six days. then we increased to seven days. in the community do they have ob/gyn services on sunday? for us, we are maintaining the level of service on sunday. with the capacity building, hopefully we will be able to expand service on the weekend, as well.

just like we talked about by train the front line staff it will be on going. you want them to be quite ready for any changes in the future. >> if i could make one other point. healthcare is about the only industry that do not work and banker's hours anymore. only the health-care industry works and 9-5. every single one of these has evening were weekend hours like this. this is what we need. the reason that they started a revolution health is because he had to sit in an emergency room one hour -- one weekend afternoon when his daughter was injured in a soccer match. he thought his time was worth more than that. it was a clear market. it points to the failure of the health-care system.

it is not responsive to the people who needed care. help centers are trying. they are far from perfect and have a long way to go, but they are moving down that road. the rest of the health care needs to follow. back to your point, what can the rest of the system run from health centers? it is we need to stop working banker's hours. >> we will go to the back, the needy in the back. >> i work for refugee works. i work for on workforce issues related to refugee and immigrant health professionals. they are already in the united states and trained abroad. they want to requalify to practice in this country. for the m.d.'s is the lack of residencies. hospitals have a lock on that. the want to recruit people who will become specialists.

is there a possibility that in the future community health centers can have residency's available or in addition to hospitals said that you can provide the next generation of primary-care providers? >> that is a very good question. i think that is one that, back to the point of needing to grow our range, it is not only finding people from the community who can pursue a health professional boxing career and a fleet combat to the community to give back and care for the community. it is really running an operating room and then tries to educate physicians, nurse practitioners, and others. in fact come in the health-care reform matting, that much maligned health reform, which has much wonderful stuff in there are a whole host of

programs for improving training. one of them is called teaching health centers. it calls for funding to develop and operate residency programs. this with the four physicians. listen to programs that are based in health centers, not just in health centers but in ambulatory sites where the vast majority of health care is provided today. it is not in an inpatient care institution. as you have pointed out, virtually all of the residency training in america today is run out of hospitals. we need to move much of that into the community, and to ambulatory health care centers, hospital-based residency programs are doing some of that of we need more. we know of at least one dozen

health-care centers across the country that offering, managed come and run primary care residency training programs. we think that number could triple or quadruple easily. we know more than 300 health centers actually of residents who rotate through today. they might be there for 90 days or six months. they might be there on a residency rotation, but there is some much more to be done. then there is funding for expanded nurse practitioner training. rebecca is sitting right here next to me, i want her to be my best friend of what her and her colleagues to be my best friend. i believe some of the most productive members of health care staff are certified nurse min -- nurse midwives. they do a wonderful job. we need to train more of them as

well. it is the same with extended the due care practitioners. we need hygienists, dental educators. we need clinical social workers, marriage and family therapists from other mental health professionals to health -- to help with this stuff. they should be trained in community-based settings. my hope is that more health centers will step up to service the training sites for them going forward. >> two other quick points. one of them is that theme health care reform and cuts the some requirements that had a lot of physicians in training in hospitals and has allowed them to prison. in the more community-based sites. the second is allowing the reallocation of some unused primary care slots. there are some places that do a great job in primary care and

they are full. there are other spots not being used. we tried to move them and has some of the unused slots good place is going a good job providing primary care. that will be two chairs -- two ways. >> the match again, that will come back to the front. we have time. >> i am with the committee transportation association of america. we thought we would hear what you would have to say about transportation. when the training and jobs happen to know we want to be a support of transportation does not become the barrier. is the same with patients coming in. the community transportation association is listening. if you have any questions for me, please do not hesitate. >> i want to thank you for making that point. i want to make another point.

we talked about how in rural america, my health center was in rural america with the public service bustlines. forget a macro or in some way. it had nothing. someone did not have a pickup truck, they could not get where they needed to go whether it was to buy groceries or get health care. we had to operate efficient fans, literally running around the two county area where i worked in order to bring in patients. right here in washington d.c., transportation is an issue. yes we have the metro. if you are a mother with four kids in southeast d.c. and the need come to gw or howard, it is a one hour or more in writing, four bus transfers, blossoms dollars with the kids in tow to get to a place where you can get care. thank god unity healthcare has sites in southeast.

even in an urban area like washington, d.c., or new york city there are places where people can i get to where they need to go. this is in suburban and urban america as well that access includes access to transportation. [no audio] >> we have worked with the children's health fund not only to bring their staff and our staff together to grow services, but also to do one-on-one transportation planning. there are two components we would work on the with which to be planning and the one-on-one delivery so you can empower people to find their own transportation. i think of us as community-based as well. >> i can give you one example. there was a young mother

bringing her two small children in for an appointment. she lived in 87 miles away from where we're located in a town called sterling. we are based in leesburg. it is not that far, but the bus service is not local would and did it. she had to take the kids on to the bus, walk to the bus station, wait for the next bus to come through which was not in an urban area where they come to every two minutes. it occurred two hours to go 7 miles. >> it is a real challenge. we go right there for the next question go ahead. you are the lucky one. >> i am from senior service america. we are labor department funded national organization that works with low-income seniors, many of whom i am sure our patients in health centers around the country. my question is to the two

practitioner's asking when they have any current connection with the senior service employment community program in your areas and the possibility and if you do not of making those connections. the broader question would be to dance to do that in a broader relationship. we are in 16 states and in multi-county areas. the potential is there for the placement of low-income seniors in 20-hour per week community service assignments to do lots of different interesting things they could do that our community-based in their own backyard. >> we work with our local agency on aging to reach out to our senior population. just like i described with the children, our local free clinic does not care for seniors as well. usually they would be going on to medicare. our local free clinic does not

take insurance of any kind. the other problem in our community and many other is that a lot of private practitioners are not taking medicare. they are turning the patients away. we welcome them. we want them. there are an awful lot of key -- opportunities in our senior community, we have a lot of retirees moving too loud in county. we would love to have helped to have us -- to other seniors. we have a large retired military population we would certainly welcome those partnerships. we try hard to reach out, but with a limited staff with volunteers or other outreach people to help us to that in a better way. >> we have a long history in terms of working with the seniors. when we did was a couple of seniors were our patience.

then they register and work 20 hours. we gave them training. after they proved themselves and physically they were able to handle it, they become subsidized half of the time. we have someone working more than 20 hours so they can serve as a messenger, making copies, analysts things. they are very helpful. >> ok, great. one more question right here. then you guys can talk afterwards. >> i am a free-lance correspondent. this paper -- i think this is probably more relevant. how many centers are involved?

how many of the population is served? what is the money put in there? for the center in wall street, if you notice in the last couple of years the increase of environmental related diseases, particularly respiratory diseases? if they have not been pace anemometers, i think they are numerous health conditions the should remind should. -- conditions should be monitored. for the future, i do not with the year is, but there was a 60 dozen dollars center. where will they come in from.

taken the lead from the primary care. we are sure nine primary-care patients -- positions. -- we are short on primary care physicians. for the current center, how do you recruit staff? how much are they paid? do you have a problem the turnover rate? thank you. >> in the four minutes? [laughter] one of the most poignant questions about the aftermath of 9/11. >> we are 10 minutes walk from ground zero. for the past so many years, after ground zero, we have been seen was respiratory definitely

come and the children. we are lucky to have and as much initiative in our center, especially for pediatrics. we work closely with the city hospitals and the city department of health. educate,re to screen, and teach the parents help the child maintain a healthy lifestyle and how to use the breather appropriately, but definitely you are right that we have been seeing an increase. >> let me see if i can answer couple of your other questions on this. in terms of the members of on the screen, in the year 2015, and this is all related to the year 2015, not a five-year time, but the total federal funding of the $5.8 billion. $2.2 billion, the regular funding, and 3.6 billion in new

funding from the health center fund in the health reform act. that will be roughly $6 billion. the remainder of the $31 billion there and you're to come from medicare, medicaid, private insurance, state and local government sources, a private philanthropic support, and from the patients themselves who are always asked to pay a little something although no one is ever denied care for the inability to pay. $6 billion of the $31 billion of the federal grant fund. that 6 billion leverage is. the other 25 billion in other revenues that will unable to serve the allow you to the c 40 million people in one year. that is twice what reserve today. we anticipate they will be served at twice the number of locations from 16,000, as

compared 8000 today go what will it take to somewhere in the range of six-and 8000 physicians. 40005000 dentists. i know. these numbers are huge. a dental hygienists and others? among some of the confident, however, that health centers will find them. they found them over the last 10 years when the shortage was only getting worse. they went from 4000 to 8000 physicians between two dozen to and 2010. they followed. in some cases, they were recruited. the fund for writers who were just tired of working for they had been working. they wanted something new, exciting, and challenging, so they were able to recruit them that way. i'm convinced we're turning the corner in the primary care. we have begun the process of

revitalizing primary care. some of this is in a market phenomenon with respect to salaries. you mentioned what they're paid. if you work at a health center, you are paid a market which, a fair compensation compared to what is going on in the private sector in your community. that does not mean we have many former thousand dollar surges -- $400,000 surgeons. that is because the health center needs to offer in order to recruit and retain them. i do not know what the turnover rate is. i will tell the the longer a health center has been in the community, the longer people work their stay. i'm sure rebecca can speak to that, and the stephanie may have experienced something. the first three or four years, it was like the whole staff

turnover. by the time left, there were people who had been there for, 5, even six years and were committed to staying. >> with potentially have no turnover. >> good for you. >> we have no turnover. we just hired a new general practitioner. he is a rather young man. he read -- he retired after 20 years in the navy. he was a doctor in the navy for the entire time he was there. is looking forward to come to work with us as of september 1. >> that is wonderful. >> and still young enough to provide many years of care. >> i want to thank our events team. thank you so much. thank you for taking your monday morning to come to this.

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>> the third part is making sure every student completes their course of studies. over a third of america's college students and over half of our minority students don't earn a degree, even after six

years. we don't just need to open doors of college to more americans, we need to make sure they stick with it through graduation. that is critical. and that means looking for some of the best models out there. there are community colleges like tennessee that is restructuring remedial math structure. we have to lift the rates an prepare dprad wats to succeed in this economy and make college more affordable. that's how we'll reach the goal of leading the world in college graduation rates by the end of

this decade. that's how we'll lead in this century just like we did in last century. when i a lookout at all the young people today, you are entering the workforce in a tough time. at each time throughout our history, we have always recognized that truth that the way to move forward in our own lives and as a nation is to put education first that's what led a nation being attorney apart by

civil war to set aside acreage for the land grant institution to sees the promise of a strilt age to grow our economy and grow our middle class that recognition that here in this great country of ours, they always go hand in hand. that lead the university of texas to say as he dedicated the corner stone with the main building, smiet the rocks of

knowledge and fountains of unstinted wealth will pour forth. in an is the promise at the heart of ut austin. that is the promise at the outer of universities, our country, that our children will climb higher than we did. that's why so many of you are seeking a college degree in the first place and why your families save for your education. i know as we make our way tlut economic storm. ? of you are worried what your degree will be worth when you graduate and how you will fare. when i a lookout at you and at the faces of america's young men and women. it reaffirms my sense of hope

and possibility. if we as a nation offer our children the best education possible from cradle through career, not only will america's workers compete and succeed, america will compete and succeed. we'll build an america where no matter what we look like or what color we are, we will succeed. thank you austin, god bless texas and god bless america.

thank you. [applause] >> in a few moments, a discussion of how technology is used to protect our borders. washington journal is live at 7:00. >> a couple of live events to tell but this morning. the agriculture department's comments. the assistant secretary of civil rights. that's at c-span ii at 8:00

eastern. >> a look at how technology will be used to secure our borders the future this is about an hour and a half.

>> this morning, our topic is beforeder security. our method rater is michelle. she's written about everything from presidential politickses to

race riots to washington trophy wives. she was an editor of washington month monthly >> washington lawmakers. we are going to talk about what is extremely important. kick us off yesterday. the mark that you are never done

securing your borders. explaining a little bit about that. he nose a little about border security. watched the program that involves everything from increased border agents to unmanned vehicles finally at the end, he is the vice president

and general manager of intelligence security on programs like fbi net. prior to this, he headed the space shuttle program, i can't help to share this, he was a navy pilot and i'll give a big piece of the pie thank you. let me start by saying what a terrific forum this has been for me border security with respect to homeland security has only gotten stronger after 9/11 we now have integrated ins what the

program brought to that is another tool of what we like to call immigration and border security. it involved the state and local. what we introduced was the state of biometrics. people would show up at a post or port of entry. they would get a visa or not and provide basically the same information we're getting through the system. this adds a certainty we know

very briefly. everyone who wants the visa to come to the u.s. those have been locked to that visa. when that person arives the finger prints are taken again if you are part of the visa waiver program and 36 entries. what we have done is eliminated passport fraud and visa fraud. you cannot get a visa anywhere in the world and have that visa lost, stolen or sold to gain entrance to the u.s.

we are looking at the port of entry and fbi. now we know more about that and we can take appropriate action >> all of this was very controversial when we first started this.

still a goal this travels and so forth. >> thank you.

>> policy, many entities outside contribute to border security. originally, the secure border initiative was an attempt to get a hand will. as it evolved was the pieces of the program. manufacture you for example for the fact that there is 700 miles of fence we go back and look at where we have it right.

there's more to technology than sbi net. more to border enforcement than fence. there's more that we understand there are pieces that come together. personnel and technology. >> i suspect we are going to focus a little bit on sbi net. focusing on putting censores

along the border. they now can act. there's a trade between the personnel and technology. i hate the term virtual fence. people think you can substitute technology for a fence. a physical fence delayed progress and creates a persistent impedance. we don't laser zap. we only watch as people might wave as they go by a camera. the idea was to give us the control with the border patrol

agents. we struggled. things have got n better. the question is is it too little, too late. that's the story behind the secretary's freezing there's where sbi is we are going to do an analysis to make sure it is effective. technology is one of those throw contributors. we have to pick the right one. no virtual fence references from the panel we'll finish by the

end of september is the plan in

start of an operational operation. we started on february 6, border patrol has been using the system night after night. they have apprehended a large number of folks. the number of users has been positive. we like what we have deployed. it's going to be a question of the cost benefit at that kind of technology versus other options which might attend mobil solutions. we are doing an analysis of alternatives with our company and we'll compare that and i'll make the decision. clearly it is the government

decision going forward. it is not so much a question of boeing company in this one but trying to make those operators in grown suits on the south border. looking forward to the rest of our discussion here. thank you for inviting us. >> starting off, i'll ask you a question that will affect most of us. that our borders have never been more secure. this set off a bit of a buzz. i want each of you to go back

and give us a take. what are you using to look at this and respond. we can start back down the line then. we are more secure. we have more personnel than we never had before. we had an integrated two agencies. it is much more effective. new technologies before 9/11. stopping people that oernl wise would miss. to say that we are less safe or not as secure, the facts don't

bear that out. you can take confidence in the fact that we have applied resources in we have never started before. the secretary kim in and said, that's not good enough, we need all ten. fingerprinting wasn't quick. police companies didn't need the speed. we had to say develop something that sits on the desk of an officer. we have to use a different color like green or white.

we have new devices out there. used by the department of homeland security technology has partners with us. we are better off. i know where we were and where we are right now. do you have a good faith or sense of how you are doing in weeding out? >> we have actually 60 million fingerprints than we didn't have before. when i was an inspect or in san francisco, i didn't have that information real time.

we are working on that progress. we now know more of our individual we get watches and warrants from the fbi on a daily basis you are dealing with the gaps all the time. the perception is not that the south border is anymore we do as

we have discussed. we have much more awareness of what is going on. second, we can attribute the number of changes. when i first got to cdp, they said, apprehensions are down 30%. >> well, that's bad. no. that's good if you combine that with the information that attempts are down. the draw for these auto tempts have declined. . the trend started with the economy was still strong.

in addition to that, what the border patrol can track is the movement of traffic indicating something about the growth and security they are trying to find a way to come up with a good measure.

this is actually the time going well. the increase is a symptom. most of the experts would tell you that in the north part of nechl, a lot of the reason for violence there is because carteles that used to operate can no longer operate there.

if you look at what they had before, especially in urban areas where folks could walk across and disappear into town. the physical fence does a job in an urban area that is probably more important. it's interesting to watch these young guys operate as they get more awareness. in the four months that we've been operating, we have probably got hundreds of videotape

apprehensions of various type groups. those are the ones you kind of hear about. many of them are carrying 150 pound backpacks full of dopes. 15% of the folks they pick up are convicted fellons. these are folks in business. they are very innovative and determined. they are very determined. when somebody says it's more secure, it's a relative sense. clearly there's more work to do. >> not only is the border more secure but the country is becoming more secure.

before we introduce biometrics, that person would give a fictitious name. they would be booked and released out into the community. now, they have access to our system. they know that that person really isn't who they said they were or who they are, they are able to put a detainer on that person and remove them from the country. >> that was one of my questions

is how easy is this information to access. l.a., new york, obvious big cities. has it swayed down to smaller areas? i believe l.a. is up and running, new york is not yet. it is the case that when the person is booked into a county jail, we would miss them and they would lie about who they are. unknown to that officer was the truth. that's now being revealed in an increasing number of locations. you mentioned the fbi position.

i know there were some problems starting out with that. what's the status of that in terms of kind of merging. terrific relationship, we talk about not information sharing or the turf. the quick backstroky is that the railroad killer arrested in the 1990s. a third time using the two fingerprint system. that information was released when he killed a fourth time. it took longer than we would have liked but in september 2006, we were able to claim success where information to the fbi would talk to the system to the point now where we are close

in rael time to the officer at the port of entry will put those finger's down and not only check the 5 million watch lirs of terrorists but also also the illegal immigrants. >> having seen what we did, the uk really said, wow that works. you are able to stop bad people and have lines moving through your port of entry and you can protkt privacy.

we had an officer go over there for three years to help develop their system. we now have available to the uk, 120 application support centers where people who want to get a visa to go to the uk, they can walk in and check in and we can alert the uk. you can get the visa to go to the uk. canada will do the same thing. we are working with australia to have the same pieces as well. an increasing number of countries are adding biometrics.

the technology as it was developed. >> they do get fingerprinted if you want to be a citizen. those who are legal residents will go through a 10-print process and check against our system. all things going good, that person will be granted citizenship. the uk has seen a benefit of the 10-finger process. part of the reason is that we have to begin talking about that

use of biometrics beyond the booking process or as you become a federal employee or officer. this will deinvolve into the private sector. you will see this more and more in healthcare systems or financial transactions. controversial, no doubt but the idea is out there. this use for security but also for the protection of identity. once i lock those fingerprints to a passport, that cannot be used by anybody else. once it is stolen, someone can't use your identity. >> how optimistic are you about this being feasible.

the government wants your fingerprints and to scan parts of you. >> it's always been a controversy. there's many people that don't come to the u.s. because they don't want to be fingerprinted. similar to what the director just said, that's not the reason to not do it. we have a security need in the u.s. that's the best use of it. we do it on a regular basis. i will tell you each day what we are doing with the information. we would publish that. it's your choice not to come to the u.s. it is your choice not to have your fingerprints taken. you may not get the ben knit you

are requesting but you don't have to go through that process. we are now sharing information with the fbi and the intell community. we will be open and honest. there's many people who will be resistant. we'll explain the security needs and the most 9/11 mind set. >> obviously the border has gotten a lot of attention. our focus is terrorism. what indication do you have that terrorists are trying to exploit

the ports? >> we do have indications. using some of this data, we do char terize a number of those people coming across. we are concerned with other collection of information that suggests there are efforts. that's a big part of the issue. with respect to the border patrol, it says that it continues to be responsibly, primary concern there is terrorism preventing that. one of the big challenges we have, signals in finding the terrorists out of that group of

people. that is a huge concern, there is some indication that is a vulnerability people would like to exploit. i was talking to the commissioner about this. more heat is being generated right now. but the big problem would be if somebody snuk a bomb or biological issues the fact that you've been in the news has got

to make life unpleasant. >> last week there was a letter sent to nancy pelosi that the program be funded. >> at this point, what do you see going forward politically, if nothing else? >> what was it and how did it get to be what it was? fbi was a kind of put all your eggs in one basket kind of plan. in hind sight, it didn't work. the urgency we had forgetting something to the border, it was probably an he had kited gamble. this clearly didn't payoff.

the historians will have to prove whether that was prudent to take. before we were really prepared to do that. now, the gamble didn't payoff. by this time, we were supposed to have this technology along much of the southwest border. there are areas depending on the areas. they don't have the technology. it's one thing to say a program has delayed and we'll work our way through them, it's another to say we no longer have time. that's why earlier this year as part of the freeze, we had $50

million of stimulus funds. we took that and are spending that on other technology that's are tried and trued because we can get them there more quickly. they are very capable and might be the right balance between cost and cape ability. you are seeing the question of funding. it might be made. theler you are referring to says the secretary froze some funds which we are not going to use this year. there are higher priority needs right now for border security. why don't we use those for right now. we weren't going to spend it this year anyway.

we have needs right now. that's kind of the environment we are operating. >> explain what went wrong. even the p 28 system, versus the block system. try not to get too much into the weeds. i get lost in the weeds myself. he said it didn't work. it certainly didn't work in the amount of time it was planned and the cost anticipated. even the $20 million firm price deal, 2005-2006. that system worked for what it was intended to be. that was installed in the same area where we installed the

first one. nine port able towers with radars and cameras back hauled with cameras. there was some operational issues but once the operators got used to it. when we tried to take the towers out, they wouldn't let us take them out. a lot of apprehensions which is relative cape ability. how did it take so long? the fact that we made -- if i was to go back three years ago. we would do a number of things differently. clearly, this isn't rocket science. we both know what rocket science is. on the other hand, it isn't

simple either. display that data back in the station house in a coherence manner to provide the ability to protect and detract the progress. took longer than we anticipated. there were problems with cameras and radar that's we needed to go back and fix. some integration problems on our side. to mark's credit. we realized we had to work through a soft ware problem. we took a deep breath. it gave us time to get out of the tail chase mode we were in. the contractor and teams were trying to play catch up.

we think we are going to have a successful test. then it is a question of a marginal cost. it's interesting what it has cost to date. providing that kablt which leads to agent safety on the ground there were a lot of reports.

wind can end up causing false alarms. in a one is going to end up being a problem we can fix. those are the three asked about. there were a number of others. it has been a tougher problem

than we can imagine. inter greating these tools together to have big work. >> how much do you thit problem was -- this is a basket that has been tried before. now this seems like a bad rerun on some level for congress. it does. to some degree, it seems like that was a mistake on outer part. there was a certain gamble and urgency. to be fair, it probably didn't have the resources to drive

this. the department elected a different approach. we have an industry competition. we did not do our due diligence. we tried to do the power of the competition. you have a place in advance. even if the gamble was reasonable, were there things we should have donor thought about?

mrobly would have done a better job of identifying it. we didn't have those tools and we ended up paying dearly for it. obviously, there are the systems out here that failed before. what degree were they looking at this? >> i don't know. i was half way done flying space shuttles when this was decided. if you were a dod organization, and we started looking at this.

looking back on that doing that in about a year would have been pretty phenomenal in hind site had she takeening longer. we would be further along than we are today.

>> when you a lookout to what is available and you see there are cameras and computer programs. it's very, very hard not to believe that it is a fairly simple problem. when you are in that situation and you don't have the benefit of hind sight it is very easy to believe tchltz hard to disbelieve you could not put that together simply. one of the things that happens is that you learn to disbelieve. at the time, very hard. it was unnatural not to believe. it was fairly straight forward to boy a couple of cameras and radars and connect them. the analogy i often use, you ever bought a printer for your system that didn't plug in like it is supposed to? when it doesn't work, you get

ticked off because it is supposed to work. that was the situation here. it was hard to believe it wouldn't work. it was even harder to deal with. after you do these things, you start to learn to be more exceptic am. one of the reports talking about the over sight of the proing jekt. what happen there's? that's not a technological glitch? >> one of the things most interesting with this, i'm trying to deal with sbi net. i got a bigger problem, as does the department. we'll leverage technology, a great deal more. we have to make sure we have the resources and tools to run this. they have been in very short supply at dhs.

they have taken steps to deal with that. at the time we did not. probably we did not realize we did not. it was the fact that we did not drive this program the way we should have. we did now. >> i could clearly see that we were going to be neck and neck into the wire. the program would turn the corner, if it did at about the same time as political patience

would end. it was clear to me, i could see it coming. it was tempting. we elected not to do that. we elected to say, we understand it is going to be neck and neck. if we had tried to rush it, i'm pretty sure it would not have been close. we are headed to the wire. >> address this. this is some hearted deadlines you have to meet. talk about what is going to happen for the next year or nine months or so. the review is know cussed on two things. one is for once and for all, let's figure out if this thing actually works and characterize it. steve mentioned we got the system deployed, when we turn it

on, it was not completed or tested. we turn it had on. the feedback has been turned on. bhat border patrol sees with that system, they really like. we don't know if they are seeing what they should. that's going on into september where we are going to take measures and run people through routes and see how people detect them onned identify. is it a person, a car, a cow? that gives us numbers. that's the question of is it viable? does it work? the second question is even if it does work, it's worth the cost there are a lot of other options. this tends to be the best. what i have often used is the difference between