was there any conversation this morning about whether or not that is taking place? >> let me get somebody to get a long-term answer on that. there was some discussion and has been over the past few days of just the severe degradation of al qaeda in iraq. obviously we are -- we see a different security environment on the ground and we saw just a few years ago, particularly as their relates to al qaeda his insurgency. >> there are roughly 50,000 that will be there at the end of this month. is there a drawdown schedule for a conversation around one? >> i do not know the answer to that but i can check on it.

>> the panama city trip coming up -- can you talk to us about what the president plans to do over the weekend, and why only one night? the question came up yesterday about the short duration of the trip. >> we will have more information, on the schedule. some of the will be -- some of the events will be treated as otr's. secretary made this -- mavis will be going with the president. he will meet with business and tourism leaders to discuss the impact that they see on their business because of the oil spill. the president will meet with those folks and have a chance to

update the region on where we are, both from a relief well stand. -- obviously the weather will likely delay the well completion by a two or three days, but we anticipate that the work will continue over the weekend. it will be important for the president to talk about the next steps in bringing the region back. the primary. -- the primary point of the president's trip is to highlight -- obviously many of you know this because you traveled there -- tourism is the economic issue. those hotels along the beaches, the businesses that they support, and because of the spill, even places where oil did

not wash ashore, it comes from the environment around the spill, seeing a huge contraction in their own business. the governor of florida specifically talk to the president and the first lady when they were down. they believed it that it was important to highlight that the gulf coast is open for business and the families that there -- that are there are enjoying their time there. in our response, part of this would be highlighted -- the tremendous economic toll taking place even in places that did not see a large amount of oil, they are still very much open for business. >> they will be meeting with

business leaders -- it does not sound like much of a vacation. >> i think you could attest to the fact that the notion of a presidential vacation is one sit room call away. you'll see all of them. >> colorado -- did the president watch the returns last night and did he draw any message from michael bennet's victory? >> the president called him not long after the race was called. the president had trouble out there -- had traveled out there

to help him gain support and raise money. the president was proud to lend his name -- i think he appeared over the course of last weekend, get out the vote mailings, television ads, and the president for dissipated in senator bennet's town hall. we talked about what comprised voter turnout in the democratic primary. in first time and nearly first- time voters coming out, coming back out again to participate in an important primary -- i think it is hard to take away from the results of last night whether in colorado, connecticut, or in georgia, in

some cases gubernatorial races and in other cases federal races, that the democratic party did not have a big night. senator bennet will now go up against someone who thinks that social security is a bad policy and that we should do away with our involvement in a student loan program that allows thousands to send their kids to college without having to pay exorbitant interest rates. i think that that is a debate that will turn out quite well for us in november. >> when asked if he would want the president to campaign with and through the general lesson, he was noncommittal. >> i think our involvement depends on the television or the mail boxes or the news out there, it is fairly well

documented. his substantive professional experience was superintendent of the din for schools, and an enormous amount of reforms that he can be proud of. i think that he will be an enormously strong candidate in the fall. >> did democrats feel better about their prospects in 2010? and the impact of the economy will be two for three months from now? >> our hope is to get the economy turned around not just in three months, but tomorrow. i think the outcome of last night's election in the states where those primaries were had was nothing but good news for the democratic party. i am hard-pressed to think of a

race were last night we did not end up in good position in either to one or who the eventual democratic nominee will face in a general election. >> the senate comes back tomorrow and pass that immigration -- border security, is there anything else that president obama these can be done before the end of the year? >> the president on any number of occasions have discussed it has discussed dealing comprehensively with immigration reform. that was the bedrock of the suit that the justice department filed in arizona. it is going to take 60 votes to get something through the senate. it takes 60 votes to get the

nominee of an agency you previously never heard of for the senate. you talk to the republicans. republicans will have to ask themselves, do they want to roll up their sleeves and be leaders on a tough issue or do they want to play politics? it is fascinating to watch. the strict constructionists and doesn't have great fidelity to our constitution want to cancel the very amendment that has provided for 150 years equal protection under the law. and due process. that is not how we are born to solve the very hard issue of immigration reform. that is not how we should solve immigration reform. comprehensively addressing border security, the workplace, those that are here -- only by doing that comprehensively while we saw that.

>> people are asking at the cult if the president will go into the water. [laughter] i'll let that dangle until sometime over the weekend. the one place you want to be most quickly, having spent some time in panama city, is the water. >> i have a question on a run. -- on iran. someone who has been in prison for the last 10 years has been sentenced for 20 years. >> i do not have anything on that but let me get something from nsc on that. >> did the president encourage the first lady to go out on the campaign trail during this midterm season? what message might the first lady offered? >> i do not want to get ahead of

the announcement on that. i think you have heard others, and david axelrod said it, and we anticipate some. -- we anticipate at some point that she will make some appearances. she is a mom and she has the focus on the importance of raising two children. we will get into that closer to november. >> the president has launched education reforms, and does this have anything to do with midterms? >> the president has spent a lot of time talking about education. sometimes when there is not a lot of back-and-forth, sometimes when there is not a lot of resistance and debates, an issue like that does not get much attention.

i think the investments that the recovery act made in things like race to the top were forums to take banks out of the roles that they have traditionally played in student loans, they are all extremely important achievements for this administration, and the president will continue to talk about them, particularly as families get closer to sending their children back to school for the year. >> on the economy, 44 states are facing 2011 budget shortfalls. what is next? >> the next thing we would like to see the senate complete -- the house has voted on this and the bill lies in the senate --

is the small business built that is, as i have said, cuts capital gains taxes for small businesses, allows them to deduct a greater amount of their investment and opens up the lines of credit through community banks that they need to expand. i think that that -- you have heard the president talk about that and that is what he will talk about as the senate comes back. >> in the recovery act, will increase funding for food stamps, and the stamps were pretty much cut to to find a teacher jobs. >> i forget who exactly ask the question but the recovery act extended that through 2018. the reprogramming took place for the latter four years because the belief was that instead of

programming money for 2017 when 20,000 teachers are going to be given pink slips, there was a more urgent need. >> many people on food stamps are saying that that that is not fair. >> we understand that. that is why it was in the original bill. i think redirecting money from 2017 to 2010 we believe addressed the most urgent need that states and localities based at that time. i have not talked to the press

and about that. [inaudible] >> his [inaudible] i wanted to get an update on that. any concern that it could backfire i direct the democrats -- for the democrats in their own caucus, or -- >> go ahead and finish the question. i don't think the president's position of allowing the tax cuts for those who make more than to under $50,000 is any different -- more than $250,000 is any different.

what the president has never supported is tax cuts for wealthy, upper in incomes. >> that is not what i'm trying to get at. do you still think that pushing this before november is the right way for democrats to go? any concern that it will backfire? >> i think that is that question better directed to the hill. this is obviously going to be part of the debate over the course of the next 80 days. whether there is a vote or not, this is going to be hotly debated. we have a series of tax cuts that were designed to take on varying levels depending on what taxes were cut, and december 31, 2010, they drop off of a clip. it is safe to say that that is

not how the president would design a tax cut. there will be a debate that will be a big part of the 2010 election, particularly as it relates to -- that was the centerpiece of the economic policies of the previous eight years. [inaudible] i can double checked with legislators. i don't know if there is any clarity on that. i would point you to the house and the senate in terms of the scheduling. >> did i understand you to say that with regard to pulling out the 50,000 troops that will be there, they will serve a different purpose, that is an issue and that could change?

>> i did not want to get into the hypothetical of what is next. obviously the agreement that has been signed by the two government's in the status of forces agreement, that all american personnel by the end of 2011. >> in today's meeting with the president, if things take a really bad turn after august 31, can they do a slowdown? >> there are -- suffice to say, the pentagon has plans for a lot. that is their job. they are military planners. the president did not hear from those on the ground, diplomatic and military/security side, he

did not hear anything that would lead him to believe that any of those plans would ultimately be necessary. [inaudible] i do not -- my guest is not a lot, because the update on the situation doesn't necessarily -- the situation is such that we see no impediment on what is happening on the 31st. there are on any number of occasions in any number of places in the world, very detailed contingency plans for a lot of different situation. >> going forward, what is the u.s. involvement politically in up awry him? people are holding out hope for the president's announcement next week as to what the

president will do in the political situation which has reached a stalemate now. >> the vice-president remains actively involved in the continuing talks about forming a new government. we had staff in the region not too long ago, meeting directly with the parties to try to continue to get progress along the road to setting up a new government. we will remain active in that. the military transitions to one led by civilians, and the formation of a new government in iraq remains a significant priority for our government. jindal was discussed in the

meeting today? >> they specifically provided an update for the president. you can see developments in the region that are positive, meetings that are happening between the parties that are ultimately necessary for what is going to need to happen. no deadlines or timeline. >> the president has been very vocal a supporter of neutrality. -- net neutrality, and also for building the premium internet service is on top of the public internet. >> let me get some information on that for you. -- throughoutq's

the debate on the iraq war, the republicans were whining victory in iraq. is that what we will have? >> we are transitioning to a new mission. by any account, there is still progress to be made in iraq. i think that the president will celebrate the role, the effort, and the heroism that our men and women in uniform -- the role that they play and they contributed in bringing about stability to that country. there is the formation of a government that has to take place there. the next government will have challenges as it relates to

services that any government of the country provides, and there is still progress that has to be made. i think that we can celebrate the transitioning of responsibility to the iraqis. >> going back, in the georgia republican primary, the nominee has not actually caviled in birth -- has actually babbled -- dabbled in birther conspiracy. >> if you look at what nathan deal is going to have to explain over the course of the primary,

that may be the least of his concerns in terms of ethics investigations currently ongoing. i think having -- the last i checked, the results of that race or within a few thousand votes, which means that you have a divided party with someone in roy barnes who has a track record that georgia can be proud of. you still have a very splintered party. i think you are hard pressed to see whether gubernatorial races in georgia, connecticut, colorado, and senate races in connecticut and colorado. democrats did not have an extraordinarily good night and are faced with candidates that i think are largely out of step with states and areas that they

wish to ultimately represent. >> following up on sam's question, in your view, is a rock as success story -- is iraq a success story? [inaudible] >> i would say that there are -- as i enumerated, i think that there is progress that the iraqis leading and being responsible for their own country now are going to have to make. again, i think that what has never been in doubt, and the president said this in his announcement of opposition to the war in 2002, we all support

our troops. we all recognize the tremendous sacrifice that they and their families and all of their loved ones make when a commander-in- chief, regardless of who that is, makes the decision to deploy them. that is a role that the president toward the end of the month will celebrate. even as iraqis turn to governing their country, providing exclusively for its security warding off potential insurgents, and ultimately making progress in the wrong quality of life. thank you. -- in their own quality of life. thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> thad allen held a briefing from mobile, alabama.

he briefed reporters on the latest effort to clean up after the oil spill. this is a half-hour. >> good afternoon, everyone. i like to give you a briefing on what is happening at the wellhead and the plans for the future. i like to announce that we had a contractor working on the response that was killed in plaquemines parish early this morning, struck by a vehicle about 2:00 in the morning, working for a contractor. the name is being withheld pending notification of the next day it can. -- next of kin. we have some weather approaching. it is a tropical depression at this point. we think it will have less chance to strengthen. we have suspended operations out on the wellhead or a couple of days to make sure that we can continue with the relief well safely. the winds are expected to be 30

m.p.h., slightly below the tropical storm threshold. but the seas will get up to around 12 feet and safety is associated with that. to that extent, development driller iii has not disconnected, but they have put a packer on the wellhead which helps fill the wellhead with seawater. they are remaining on scene. it will take 96 hours once the storm has passed to get back and finish their work. the local responders will be standing down and moving to higher ground, midday. in some cases it will be locally and in some cases we have moved equipment outside the levee protection and plaquemines parish inside the levee protection. development driller ii, we have

moved back -- iii, we have moved back. there are some other things we have to do all in final completion of the wellhead. following a successful pressure test, he had discussions between the government's science team and bp engineers. there may be a chance that the cementing forced down to the casing of the well entering the reservoir might have actually moved over and come back up into the area outside the casing, but inside the well bore. we want to understand the condition of the annulus before we drill further. we're doing pressure test the will tell us whether or not there is free communication between the annulus and the reservoir itself, or if the cement has worked its way over there from the static killed. that will affect our decision on moving ahead with the end of the

relief well. just to project out further, for everyone's information, once the well is killed, it is no longer discharging, it would no longer be considered part of the response because there will be no source of the oil. there are a lot of things that will have to be done out there, including removal of the blowout preventer, and the permanent plugging an abandonment of the well. that is actually a term in regulation. the department of interior overseas debt. at a certain. bang -- at a certain point in response, he control what happens with the wellhead will shift to the department of interior and they will manage that process. it will also do that in conjunction with the marine board of investigations, as it has been convened in new orleans between the department of homeland's security, and there

will also be consulting with the department of justice on how that will be done. obviously this material is consequential to what is going forward. we're done some work inside the national incident command over the next three or four days. we will, a comprehensive plan to move forward to unify some of the concerns that have been raised with oil, subsea oil, and i have been working with jane lynching go from noaa -- lu bchenco from know what to make sure we know where all the oil is that. and with that, i would be glad to take your question. [inaudible] it depends where. we have been working with the

officials in florida, alabama, and mississippi, and in some cases where the oil is no longer a threat, the boom will be removed. it could cause more damage than if you would remember it. if there is no threat of oil, we will decontaminated. if there is marine growth, it has to be removed as well. that will make it ready for deployment and we will stage it near where of was, and then we will coordinate with local of our do you when we should -- of party -- local authorities. those are specific decisions that are made locally in conjunction with the incident command. is that responsive? for instance -- there is a great deal oil in the marsh areas, so

how we handle the boom there depends on where the oil is that and how close the boom is to the response. [inaudible] what we saw last time -- and this is not -- it is slightly less in strength and bonnie when it came through. what we saw last time was the surge, some oil was brought ashore, but it has been a long time since the well was capped. it is likely that we will have no oil, but you cannot have oil redeposited when it has moved down the shore. we will have oil actually displaced from where it back. we are mindful of boom being moved into a marsh areas causing damage. we want to make sure that we're safe from any surge associated

with it. >> is there any protection out there right now? >> there is been in place in a number of places. we brought it into conjunction with a discussion with local officials. in the case where there has not been under threat from oil recently, it makes sense to store the boom. [inaudible] noaa has had an aggressive monitoring situation right around the well site itself and in other places in the gulf of mexico. they are sampling hydrocarbons in the water column, using gliders to do remote sensing. we've had discussions this week with epa and noaa around the fact of taking the current efforts under way and expanding

that to include the coastal states, other research vessels, and coming up with a coordinated approach. there have been questioned raised about the 26%. " we would like to do was go out and make sure we actually had a coordinated effort at state and local levels. we have other initiatives going on behind the chandeleur islands where we have taken what we call snare booms. the oil sticks to it and the water does not. we have put that into the crab traps and check to see if any oil is thought to it. what will like to do is create an integrated monitoring system for the gulf of mexico. now that the well is capped, and there is oil to be a scam, and we want to redouble our efforts and break down the granular the of the response and get the oil wherever it might be. [inaudible]

there is a very low probability that we might had actually sealed the analysts with a cement -- the annulus with cement. we want to see if the hydrocarbons can come up and threw the and ellis in the casing. . is going to drive that down and seal the well if that is the case. if there is no communication, we have stagnant oil trapped around that casing up to the wellhead. if you pump mud and cemented in there, you could raise the pressure and pushed that up into the blowout preventer. that is a low probability event, but we want to test the pressure in the blowout preventer and see if we actually have pressure coming up to indicate they have free communication with the reservoir. if not, that would change our tactics in the final kill. we have to wait for the weather

to come through. it is supposed to calm down are around friday. in that begin friday -- by friday, we should be in a position to do that test. operator, i would be glad to go to questions from the fphone. >> tell us about existing oil in the marshes. could you tell us about what concerns you might have about surface soil impacting shorelines as a result of this storm? >> sub-surface oil has always been a concern. we've been trying to find out more about it in the hydrocarbon testing going on. there is a potential that the agitation of the storm could

make will show up on the beaches. we do not know that for a certainty but it is something that could happen with the passage of the storm. next question? >> stephen brown of ptolemy's radio. -- talk knees radio. >> was a connected to his work? >> he was off-duty, it was about 2:00 this morning, central daylight time, and apparently the individual was a pedestrian struck by a vehicle. no further information at this time. >> thank you.

>> i will take one in the room. >> any information on how long this incident command post will stay open? >> that begs the issue of what i am going to do as well. i could give you an overview if you are interested in that, how it might implicate in mobile here. we've been in discussions with washington, with secretary impala tunnel and carol browner at a white house, on how we might make that transition. we will be looking at restoration, long-term environmental issues, assessments, and what we need to do long-term to return the goal to not only the condition it was in before the spill, but take on the larger issues that have been put off for a long period of time. we do not have an exact timeline but we will have some conditions to transition in the

organization that i my head up. we have to kill the well. we have have no oil coming ashore so that we know the activity is on the surface -- the activities on the surface have been completed. i met with ken feinberg before we came down here. that needs to be up and operating. one of my response abilities is interfacing with the bp claims process. someone needs to assume that responsibility. the report by the secretary mabus needs to be structured and identified in a leadership position, said they know who is going to be the new person talking to you here. and when all those conditions are met, we will be of point where i can have a transition plan available to provide to my superiors how we would

transition to a regional command, very similar to what we stood up and robert, louisiana before i was national incident commander. we need to make sure that we have response capability, that we keep our commitment to the people of the gulf, and we keep our commitment to provide oversight to bp to make sure they carry out their responsibilities. to the extent that those conditions trickle-down, we will be looking at how long we have had oil on the beaches, if there is oil to be cleaned up, how we're negotiating with state and local governments on "how clean is clean." that discussion is forthcoming. the footprint here will be commensurate with the operational requirements out there. it will not be downsized before any requirement has not been met. we will continue to work with local officials. no timeline, but it is related to how much oil has been cleaned up and the satisfaction of the local leaders. from my own particular

timeline, the report is due late september, the approximate time frame for the national incident command transition would be somewhere around the third week of september or the first week of october, but that is all notional at this point. operator, i would be glad to go to the phones again. >> can you confirm that checking the sunken rig has already begun? >> i believe you also asked about recovery of the rig. let me cover it all.

there are no near-term plans to salvage the deepwater horizon. there are several thousand feet away from the well head right now, slightly inverted, and sometime in early september, in conjunction quit the supervisor of salvage of the navy, we will try to do a comprehensive review, but we have staggered our work based on what needs to be done first. once we have finished our response activity and we are able to put the equipment in place into the plans, there will be a survey done of the rig. regarding the blowout preventer, that will not be removed until after we have confirmation the well is killed. at that point, bp will act under the direction of the energy of ocean management, what the department of interior. when the blowout preventer is removed, it will be preserved and brought to the service under the board convened under the

department of homeless security. was the response of? >> thank you very much. >> the next question comes from the associated press. >> i want to clarify a point that you just made, and then a separate question. on your future, is it fair to say that you will likely beach rationing out as national incident commander between the third week of september and early october? and with regard to the bottom killed duration, yet been speaking with a great deal of certainty over the last few days from your point of view that you would be ordering bp to do just what they have been saying all along, pumping mud and cement down through the relief well into the bottom. it seems remotely possible that they make -- that that may not

occur in that manner. i am just curious if bp has had discussions with the federal government in recent days and weeks about that issue and whether those discussions led to this current state of affairs. >> in regard to the first question, i laid out notionally that it happened then. the overwhelming criteria, including the cult claims facilities built project split up, the report submitted, and the structural long-term recovery in place. the actual transition will be conditions-based, and i have completed the work that i've assigned. regarding the pressure test, each time we have taken a step forward in our intent to kill this well, we have learned more.

one of the reasons to do the static kill was to learn more about the well and we knew that we could safely after a well integrity test pour cement into the casing pipe. we can make sure that that was taken care of and reduce the risk for the bottom killed. what we have found out is that there's a possibility we could have part of the cement that went down through the casing i, it might have blocked the annulus as well. before make up a final decision -- before we make the final decision, it relates to how the pressure can be worn inside the annulus. we have a technical team in a houston, augmented by the science team led by secretary chu, and discussions have been continuous. there is a call to secretary salazar with the leadership, and these issues are discussed in great depth. they talk about risks associated

with certain activities, how to mitigate them, and any procedures that bp develops are reviewed and recommendations is made by the science team. in any direction to proceed is a decision made by me, and i issue are written order to bp. that is the process that we have been falling. he had more information on the success -- a great success in cementing the casing in the well. we just need to and need the -- which is need to understand the implications and make sure it that we have all potential risks covered that would impact our decision on how we use the mud and a cement. next question. >> the next question comes from reuters. >> i am a little confused and what me through something. you say the pressure test was cellule whether they're a cement or not any and ellis, it would

affect the decision on the relief well. what you mean by that? would you drill into it to see what you think it is? >> more detail whether we think the reservoir is connected to the analyst -- annulus. it is, we would of mud and followed by a cement and -- to around the annulus what we did in the pipe casing. there's discussion about whether it was forced down into the casing and might have impacted the annulus. no one knows that until we get physical evidence by mastering it or intercepting a. that thought it might be prudent to do it pressor test that would indicate whether or not there was hydrocarbon coming up the

reservoir to the annulus before we go to the final stages of the intercept. could it impact the decision to intercept and whether or not we would kill from the bottom? it could. we do not know that. we're doing the test to rule out one more possibility and improve our chances of killing the well fully. >> one more thing. you're still looking at the intercept or monday-tuesday? >> it will be about 96 hours from when they stop. we'lif we're back on friday, it would put it in that range. we will take two more questions, operator. >> getting back to something you said earlier about there could be stagnant oil in the and ellis -- the annulus.

you mentioned about raising the pressure into the blowout preventer. is there concern that killing and with more cement or mud, it could somehow backfire and cause a problem? >> good question, dole. -- joel. i am not an oil well engineer although i have been to school for the last 100 days. the casing in which the drill bit in the wealth i sets hang from the top of the well head. and then the telescope down into the smaller diameters. in that mechanism where they hang off of the top of the wellhead, there is a seal, and if enough pressure is applied in from the annulus outside casing on that sale, it is meant to

give way said that it does not cause damage to the well bore. it is like a relief valve. the seal completely circles the casing at the top of the well, if enough pressure is exerted, it will rise up and allow all the oil to flow. sometime during the explosion, that pipe could have been lifted up to allow that still to be open and allow the oil to move up into the blowout preventer and might have been the source of hydrocarbons coming up other than the casing itself. we do not think that that is the case right now. we think it is seated where it should be, but we would not want that have happened, starting to pump mud and cemented and then you have the stagnant oil there, it would increase the pressure so that the stagnant oil is forced up and forces that seal to rise up, open up, and go into the blowout for better. we restrict the pressure on the injection test and in the top kill to be less than 8000 psi.

the cap is rated at 10,000 psi. if we go ahead with the month -- mud and cement, is there any chance that that what were stagnant oil ought to lift that up again and push that into the blowout preventer, and then approach pressures that might be of concern to us? we think it is a low probability outcome. but the discussion of those seals and whether the pipe has ever been lifted is something that has been discussed. we need to rule it out before we go forward. was that detailed enough? >> the well would still have the cement plug at the bottom. you would not return to free float, would you? >> absolutely correct. very little harm to the environment, but we would like

to have the blowout preventer removed intact. you want to understand what happened inside the blowout preventer during the incident itself. there are not a lot of hydrocarbons down there but we would want to minimize even stagnant oil. we just do not know. the consensus of opinion between the science team and bp engineers is probably good to do the test to understand whether we have an issue with the annulus there. >> is that the scientist from the government's idea? >> it is hard to say anymore. some of these conversations start around the coffee pot. this is a possibility and the implications are not huge, but we're using an overabundance of caution all along. we ixtoc these procedures for 24 hours from time to time to make sure we get one more look.

we do a set pressure test when we think we need to do. this is consistent with the work arrangements that have all bald and is a testament to the collaboration developed between the size team in the bp engineers. we all understand that we need to do this correctly and minimize impact on the environment. last question? >> i want to understand how safety and ellis is -- how safe the annulus is. and with the approaching storm [unintelligible] are there is many vessels out there as there were before? >> not before, because we're not

working on the second vertical riser pipe and that sort of thing. the main vessels our development driller ii, development driller iii, and q4000 is in the area. to operate in the 12-foot seas, it does make a problematic if you are hooked up and trying to drill at the time. they're trying to stabilize the current situation and hold their position so they do not have to completely immobilize and return once the weather passes through. it is a lower-level tropical system than bonnie became three. -- that came through. >> and the and ellis. -- and ellis. -- annulus.

>> the difference between this and surcoat -- their rings. we're talking about inches. thank you, folks. >> you can see this briefing what national incident commander thad allen again tonight in our prime-time program. that is at 8:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span. >> washington, d.c. delegate eleanor holmes norton hosted an event on unemployment of african-american men. this is just over two hours.

>> good evening. hello. let me welcome you. i am so pleased to see some many of you here this evening. the noise you hear in the back is that there are more people here than we expected. and that is good news. because of the seriousness of the subject. before we get started let me welcome all of you to this unofficial hearing of the commission one black men and boys, one official because -- unofficial because they have constituted themselves. they are not officials of the

district of columbia. the commission consists of african-american man who live in the district of columbia who have credibility with other african-american men. so what am i doing up here? i initiated the commission can years ago. -- tan years ago. and i was very clear that if we were to look at the dilemmas and the challenges facing black man, it could not just be the congresswoman all alone in her official capacity. we had that focus black men themselves and then our entire community on what amounts to a hidden issue. they simply are not spoken about, the issues surrounding

black men and their status in american society, and what has happened to them. as i looked, i could see that we had paid attention to every member of the black family except the black man. those of you who do not know me, i am a card-carrying feminist. i was pleased to be one of those who had led the fight to pay attention to women with notable results. women finish college and high- school -- but wait a minute. we did not need them to finish college and high school more often than men. we did not have that in mind, but that is what has happened. production in the number of children so that black women can and do control their own

fertility, and higher employment at professional levels in many professions of black women. of course, we have always been willing as a society to support african-american women and other women if they have children and no means of support. since they are the guardians of children, at that seldom means support for black men in the same way. except through various anti- poverty programs. we paid attention to women. we paid attention to children. here in the district of columbia, for example, and education is the number one

issue with those focused on children. there are a plethora of programs, private and public at every level of government. what about men? men are supposed to take care of themselves. or so it goes. one reason that has always been the case is that men dominate the work force. men have the jobs. women went out to work, especially in the african- american community, but the work force is dominated by men. when people work, they take care of themselves. mandel longer dominate the work force. -- men that no longer dominate

the work force. women are in the workforce today in almost equal numbers, not quite, but almost equal numbers to black men. women still have a long way to go. we just passed a bill for equal pay for equal work. women still work largely in stereotyped women's jobs. but we made progress for women. as a feminist, i would be the first to say that we have made some considerable progress even downside press for more. -- even as i press for more. why are we talking about black men this evening? in the first place, at the job market where everybody is trouble makes it very, very easy to fail to disaggregate who is in the worst troubles since all of us feel we are in

trouble. if you have a job, rather than the public or private, you still feel you are in trouble. 5.9% -- five plan 9 million have stopped looking -- 5.9 million have stopped looking for jobs. they are discouraged workers. they have looked and looked until they cannot look anymore. 8.5 million americans are working part-time, but desperately want full-time work. you get 30 million people who cannot find the work they need.

there are some people who call themselves 99-ers. those are people who have been out of work for at least 99 weeks. that is how deep a recession president obama found himself with. when he took office. yes, to be sure, he is digging us out of. remember -- we were losing 750,000 jobs a month when the president took office. for seven straight months, we have been gaining jobs. the problem is that we found a hole dug so deep, you have a lot to fill in before anybody knows you are filling in all. unfortunately, that will consist of men and women in our

community along with others of -- millions of other americans. it has been very tough for those out of work. especially for black men whose official unemployment rate is almost 16% compared to about 8% for white men. yet we have the toughest time even getting unemployment benefits out until this month. to the 7600 d.c. residents to finally got their unemployment benefits in early july, at it was it they were saying, let them eat cake. yet we have extended the unemployment benefits only until the end of november. why? why is there a fight even to get

unemployment benefits today when dart r five people looking -- when there are five people looking for every job that is open? i have said to my republican colleagues on the floor of the house, i do not know how you could have shut down unemployment for the first time in memory. whatever arguments we had in congress, everybody recognized that you had to do unemployment insurance. that was spreading annual -- that was fretting a needle this time. -- threading a needle this time. we could not get unemployment insurance out until the beginning of july and a 68 vote

came in the senate with the new democratic west virginia senator nd bill was passed. we in the house had passed this bill over and over. we could not get it out of the senate. here we are talking about jobs and we are looking at people who had the jobs -- who had no jobs and no unemployment benefits either even though you paid unemployment into the unemployment insurance fund. very bitter pill to swallow. with men, women, and teenagers out of work, we had lost sight of african-american men altogether, even though, even in boom times their unemployment rates began -- remain stagnant. now what they are today, but

pretty stagnant. -- not what they are today, but pretty stagnant. our concern here this evening is not only with the men involved, it is with the fragile state of the african-american family were 70% of the children are being raised by single women and the state of affairs began with the loss of jobs in the manufacturing sector beginning in the late 1950's and early 1960's. therefore, if you'd care anything about the state of black america, you've got to began to focus specifically on black men and not assume that the economy is taking care of them. we are not going to just be talking about this evening. as they hear from you as well,

the audience with a says, because you are going to have the opportunity to come up and testify for a few minutes, each of you who desire, after our witnesses have testified. we are not only talking about what the society has done to black men. we are talking about black men have done to themselves. we are going to be talking about what our community has done to them and is not doing for them. this is a societal problem, but it is our problem. we cannot handle our men off to a society -- we cannot handle our men off to a society that has been on caring of them for forever. but we look at this recession, men have been hit much harder than women. so far, for at a five jobs lost -- 4 out of 5 jobs lost were

held by eight male worker. those numbers astounded me. i did understand the depth of it until i saw these figures. -- i did not understand the depth of it. men have been employed in the most vulnerable to industries. one-third of black men 16-19 in the united states today are unemployed. black men has been employed disproportionately in the manufacturing sector. that was good for us. those were high-paying, often union jobs that created the first african american middle- class. but those are the jobs that have steadily declined over time.

for example, african america's share of manufacturing jobs 40 years ago was almost a quarter of those jobs. you know the areas they would have been in. over a quarter of the manufacturing sector. black men prayed today, their numbers are down to 10% in the manufacturing sector. the whole manufacturing sector has collapsed in this country. that is why many of us in my democratic caucus is saying let's get america back to making things, not his back to work. black men were disproportionately hurt by the collapse of the automobile industry. everybody in the african- american key -- african-

american community should be applauding the bailout of the automotive companies. every last one of them, it was in the auto companies instead of letting all of our auto companies go down. the reasons for what i have just described are many and the spread. -- disparate. persistent racial discrimination have enhanced the other factors that are on the table. those factors, of course, cannot be ignored. studies have shown that employers are generally more adverse to hiring black males than others. there is a heartbreaking study done in new york by princeton

university professors who looked at a large group, 1500 employers in new york city, and found that a black african without a criminal record was no more likely to be employed than a white applicant just out of jail. this builds on stereotypes of with the black male is. it means that a disproportionate number of black males are hurting the entire group. when they see a black man, in, they see our incarceration rate. black men are incarcerated at a rate seven times the white men. we know that there are many societal reasons for that to -- for that. they have to carry that record around for the rest of their lives. we have got to do something about that, even if you say, because of the communities they come from creditors become of

the crime infested communities, whatever you say. a black man with a record on top of being a black man is in trouble and everybody knows that. yet, do we really want to -- what a whole generation of black men to be unemployable, to have no families? we have got to focus on black men and whether they have a criminal record or not and we have not done so with black men of any kind of description. today, we're going to look at all the reasons. we will look at education as a root of the problems of almost everybody's -- if you have a high-school education, college

education, your unemployment rate is way lower. everybody is competing globally now. you are not competing with each other. you are not competing with people in neighboring states. you are not competing with other americans. you are competing globally. they do not need you and they can go abroad. therefore, we need education. all of us. that message has got to go, especially to our young black men. this is a knowledge economy. yes, we have to make things. but the more advanced you are as an economy as a nation, the more you're going to depend upon people with some college education. there is still work. yes, there is work. for those with basic schooling. but it is going to require a statewide, mostly without

criminal records, except the very fortunate, a decent education. a black men have to understand, they are not competing with the man who is in the cell next to them. they are competing with a black man who has never gone to jail. if two black men walked in the door, no matter how rehabilitated, the ex offender days, there is no avoiding the choice that most employers would make. that is why we need to get to our young men before they get to and the description of jail or prison. tonight, the commission, and i will turn it over to the commission now, will look at the entire context concerning the balance between unfair

stereotypes that confront black men and boys on the one hand, they are huge, and issues such as educational and job preparation that handicap so many black men in our country today. i will turn it over to the commission. we will proceed with the witnesses. >> good evening. we would like to thank congresswoman norton for convening this group. my name is donald i. sick. i am one of the commissioners and i will be serving -- isaac. we want to make the best of time. what we will do in the next 60- 90 minutes or so is introduced the other members of the commission, give a brief introduction to those members, let us hear from them. we will then hear from members

of the audience. but will begin on the left -- we will begin on the left. >> in national chair of concerned black men. >> my name is george stark. i am the founder of the institute, which is an adult education job training school in the district of columbia. i want to say that these are very difficult times. ward 7, ward 8, the unemployment may be 30%. regardless, we have been doing this for a while and we are pretty knowledgeable about it, too. i am in the education business. at the end of the day, we are looking at the audience and you guys are adults, not kids.

therefore, we're talking about adult education. that is fine. the only way to insulate ourselves and our family members, our cousins and uncles, is through education and having a trade. you have to do something that you can market. the economy goes up and down, but there are trade out there that always, always, always are looking for people. i think he might want to think about getting into one of those businesses. it is education at the end of the day. it is education at an early age to be can do it the right way. if you just messed up, you need to think education. learn a trade that you are employable. without having a trade, you were

just kidding yourself. i will pass this on. i talk about this for hours. this is what i do for a living. you need to insulate yourself. if you're talking about employment and taking care of your family and talking about taking care of yourself, you have to think, you have to bring something and. you cannot just walk in the door and say, there should be a job for me. you need to create your own job. learn a trade. thank you. >> my name is ronald molten. i am on the board of directors and co-founder of returned citizens. >> my name is martin dickerson and i am representing 100 black men of america. i am on the executive committee and the immediate president here

in washington d.c. >> at this time, we are going to hear from our expert witnesses to have assembled to address this very critical issue. first we will hear from dr. ronald walters. he is a political activist, a scholar, and leading thinker in our country today and has been for over the past 30 or 40 years. he has taught at several universities. he served as campaign manager and consultant in the rev. jesse jackson's presidential bid both times. finally, he is married to patricia and walters and lives in the silver springs area. secondly, we have michael johns, one of the leaders in the legal field and has a national

-- and has carried him to numerous states throughout this country. we're proud to have him as a member of the washington d.c. community. he has been acknowledged as one of the 75 best lawyers in washington. he is one of the top black litigators of our black enterprise. last, we have rodney mitchell. he served -- he gives us a great example of community activism linked to the practice of law. he has a very distinguished resume and career, but i think of him as a native of southeast. he has deep roots in south central los angeles who was

caught up in certain implications uncertain consequences of certain decisions in the criminal- justice system. if you watch his career, step- by-step approach taking him to adult education, to junior college, where he eventually graduated at the top of this class at the university of california and eventually graduated from george washington school of law and is a practicing attorney here in d.c. so these two men may lend to our information. -- these gentlemen may lend to our information. >> i am honored to have been asked to join you this evening. i would like to -- is my

microphone on? a little closer? i was about to apologize for the fact that washington d.c. hawked in august -- heights in august and has taken my voice. in any case, i am honored to be here. i had to come because this lady, who has done so much for our community, asked me to come. i just finished a book. chapters by a young african-american scholars who were talking about the

quality of democracy in the district of columbia. eleanor holmes norton has written extremely substantive for words and i want to thank her for that. she did not have to do it. as a graduate student, i was startled by a book that i ran across. maybe some of you remember that book. that the issue of -- had to do with the place of african-americans in the labor force. there was a consistent linkage between our presidents in our country and our original -- are present in this country and our

original present in this country. i think that question was asked the in 1960 -- who needs negro? they were talking about the state of the black family. 70% of our 1970's, community -- it did began to manifest itself. someone named patrick moynihan later wrote a book about the black family that caused a great

deal of consternation because we were not ready to have "the black family" to be characterized. that is exactly what happened. what she said was even then, we were experiencing a decline of our labor. when "who needs in the negro" was written, we were experiencing a decline of our labor. it was the de industrialization of this country. there. the issue of the linkage between black males and the viability of the economic

system, that is where we are today. the economic policy institute says that when we look at our numbers, we have been involved in a permanent recession. a permanent recession that has made -- that is made even worse by the fact that with the current economic crisis, things are doubled. the question of who needs the negro has to do with the state of our unemployment as one of viable indicator of where we are today. the berkeley it labor institute said something about the nature of our unemployment. i will read it. officially, the unemployed along with the discouraged and

marginalized workers to a falling out of the labor force and those working part-time because they cannot find full- time work. by this measure, the situation in the black community is dire. the black underemployment rate went from 14.4% at the beginning of the recession and is now 23.6%. underemployment rate plus -- 23.6%. 25%. we have been fixed on this unemployment rate, but are we fixed on the underemployment rate? it is a far more comprehensive

measure of who is looking for work. the reason i say that is that i was speaking in detroit a couple of weeks ago and the detroit news challenged the official figures for unemployment in that city. with respect to black males, it is 50%. that is probably generous. when you look at a place like washington d.c., it is probably the same. we ought to be real about the nature of what it is that we are facing today. president obama just made a speech at the university of texas the other day, lincoln education to employment. far more aggressively. he talked about the things that is a penetration has done. there ought to be -- that his administration has done. there ought to be an audit to of

what has been done as far as the utilization of program money with the relationship between banks and loans and the ability of young people to finance their education and the status of what committed ecologist can do in a place like this. -- what community colleges can do in a place like this. we are entering a knowledge base economy. this is so serious that if -- that it ought to be a mantra in every african-american family -- when i grow up, you can take your girl to the movies by picking up 10 cans off the street. you cannot do that anymore. the nature of the rise of the viable existence ought to be

information one for every family. we do not deal enough with economic literacy education. 100 black men, they do a lot of that. literacy education for young people. we ought to give them a sense of what it takes to have a viable existence. we talk about that, it will be clear that one of the things take is some form of education. not like they used to be. the reason is that when you look at the decline, as rep norton said, in the industrial jobs, these jobs are declining. the question is, what is remaining? what remains are those jobs that takes education and training to get to. let me give you an example of what i am talking about.

i have here is sheet from the department of labor. it lists the fastest growing occupations in 2008 projected to 2016. i will read them off. biomedical engineers, network systems and data communications financial examiners, a medical scientist, physician assistants, skin-care specialist, biochemist, by a physicist, physical therapist, dental hygienist, most of these are in the field of health. sylvan richmond education teachers, compliance officers, occupational therapist, environmental engineers.

computer software engineers, survey researchers, medical therapists, personal financial advisers, biomedical engineer technicians, ok. when you look at this list, i went backed -- i went back. they put on the side of the to these categories the amount of education that it would take to get that job. when you look at all of these jobs that it takes to get to doctorate, the masters, aba, an associate degree, a professional degree. it constitutes 68% of the future jobs. 68% of the future jobs. for those that required some on- the-job training, 27%.

that whole scale of what you could do when you are a young emerging is a 70% that it takes to get a decent job and to have a family these days. the new level of skills needed, some of them well, not just from university get colleges, the community colleges. the president talked about that. he said that we put $12 billion in the community colleges because we wanted to marry that opportunity with the green jobs. make that available. $2 billion more went to community colleges. community colleges are very important because that is where most of our kids are. that is where most of african- american kids are. we need to look at them not as

just as incubators for the workplace, but as places where we begin to round out some of these things. there ought to be a black male program. there ought to be a black leadership program. there ought to be, it seems to be in washington d.c., something like that which points people and the direction with some soft skills and other kinds of skills that make them -- we do not necessarily need -- mean that everybody needs a doctorate or a master's. a couple of years ago, as a member of the commission on the

black male, that was put together by the joint center for political and economic studies, we had a very interesting time looking at educational reform. i think that -- i think about educational reform. the civil-rights community had just come out with a 17 page blueprint on educational reform that challenges the aspects of the president's program. we ought to look at very carefully. the race to the top is done in a way which privileges elite institutions and delete methodologies and raises questions about whether or not the people who really need the money put out there are actually going to get it. we need to think about education reform as we did in the commission. for the future, there is a lot

of discussion going on about the economic deficit to -- deficit. we need to think about and cause others to think about what happens when you have a whole generation of unemployable black males. i am not even talked about incarceration rates and recidivism and that whole ball of wax. i know we will get into that. we do not deal seriously with this, we are building the bedrock for a generation of unemployable people who are not going to be able to -- to me, that is the social deficit will need to be talking about. nobody talks about the social deficit. that is more important and more powerful than economic deficit.

the final point i would make is that jobs exist in communities. one of the things we have turned our back on for the last 30 years because of the advent of conservative group that is our policy. public policy. the white house has put together a white house office on urban affairs. i would hope that at some point, we begin to have a serious discussion about the context for employment for jobs, for education, because we sometimes approach these problems as could excerpt one sector under the community and

deal with this successfully. if you have a city like washington d.c., where areas of the city are experiencing poverty, it is going to be difficult to to lift one institution out of that situation and deal with it successfully. i'll leave you with that. we'd be to deal with urban policy and a very serious way. -- we need to deal with urban policy in a very serious way. >> first of all, thank you again for having me. i want to thank the congresswoman for the -- my name is mike jones. i'm a partner at one of the largest law firms in the country. i practice here in d.c. and across the country and i've lived in the d.c. now. when i was at georgetown law

school, i was a research assistant for congresswoman norton long before she was interested in getting involved in politics. my wife and i, some years ago, set up tutoring programs in connection with the naacp where we paid retired teachers to provide tutoring services in the summer for pour african-american students. we in doubt scholarships -- we endow scholarships in new orleans for underprivileged students. we have done something similar at georgetown for african- american students looking to go to georgetown. i had been very active in the mentoring program here in d.c. connection with a case that we're working

on, coppin came into my office and looked out the window at the white house and said, homeboy, this is a long way away from shreveport. i grew up in the same place that johnnie cochran did. he had written a book. some years ago, i was on a panel at howard university for the political science department. one student asked me how i feel -- how did i feel about being one of the few african-american at a large white law firm. when i joined the firm in 1986, they had never had an african- american partner in the whole of the firm.

my response was that it felt a whole lot better than my first jobs, which was being an african-american in the cotton fields at my uncle and grandparents' farm where we had a tradition to start at 7:00 in the hot morning an end when the hot sun went down. i think that the journey starts with that job, but includes a number of other jobs. some of those opportunities are not available now. my next series of jobs was working -- you may not even remember. it was a comprehensive employment training act program. those first series of jobs -- in a way, the bravest thing that i have ever done, i have no

anxiety appearing before, and noam zaidi appearing before in judges. -- no anxiety. the greatest thing i had to overcome was in those first jobs. i was a high school leader, a student council president very well thought of. in those groups, jobs were essentially working with the janitorial staff. it took me some time to get my mind back to around the idea of student seeing me after having led a meeting mopping and sweeping the floor with the janitors. when i overcame that, i never had an anxious moments thereafter. those jobs taught me a lot of things. i spent a lot of time talking with the janitors. not only did i earn a paycheck,

which absolutely needed to have, i was one of seven children. my father had a third grade education. i was a construction worker who became disabled very early on. as a practical matter, mother had her own series of health issues. as a practical matter, we had to work. working was a way to get life's necessities. i was hit hard by the death of michael jackson because he was the first guy that i was ever aware of to transcend race and to provide me the incentive to stay out there in that hot sun picking cotton because i had seen him on soul train and i had seen those two talon bell bottom pants that he had aunt and i

knew you could buy those to care for $5 in those days. even though -- we would earn $5 in those days. that was enough to get those two towns pants. of those jobs really gave me the appreciation and the value of work. in terms of employment, i moved on from there. it started out with these janitorial jobs. i was able to get some office jobs are working at urban development before i went to college. the work ethic, the kinds of attitudes that i learned, to appreciate everybody as a part of the team. i look -- i think back to my law firm. folks who work in the mail room, the legal assistance, secretaries, the people who

increasingly common to mtv trash in the evenings, i see them as an important part of the team. that helps me when i have to stand before juries. the other thing i would say that has helped is general education. i want to talk about it more specifically. people who went to middle school, high school, law school with me were probably say, mike jones, that is that smart guy. the first four years of my education, that is not help people describes me. the first four years of my education, i was is looking at them that negros is -- students could go to any school they wanted to.

as a result of that, i transition to from the predominately african-american institution. fifth grade, i was reading at a considered a year by the time i was in the sixth competition into the classroom. you had to do a certain amount of work and then you took a test and you would go on to the next level. i was intrigued by the attention that was being paid to boys in the classroom who were at the top of the heap, so did speak, in terms of reading. i vowed that -- i was very competitive, i ran track.

i like the idea of trying to catch these guys. i like the idea of taking athletic competition over into the academic arena. i am happy to say that i did catch those guys. by the time i got to middle school, i had gone to an all black school. i have exposure to the most profound teacher and profounds was to have, an african-american man who was an english teacher. you talk about making education fund. he was the first one i've ever aware of to have a competition that we had planned in the back -- it was cool to be smart. it was cool to get the as and that was one of the greatest

educational experiences that i ever had. when i look at what i do now and what i try to help other african american men with, i say to them, whatever kinds of jobs, employment experiences that you have, even if it is not what you ultimately want to be, you absolutely need to make the best of them because there is something to be learned from every level of employment. when we look at people in my law firm, from the lawyers and legal assistance, i say to people that so much of it as attitude. so much of it is having the honker. -- having the hunger. somebody who is hungry, somebody

who is really want to roll their sleeves up and help to win one for the team, even if they are not the smartest, even if they do not have the best credentials, that is the person that i am going to be rooting for. i say this to folks who i mentor, too. one of the things -- when i see some young people out and i see it more often than not, at the supermarkets, where it seems like when a customer comes up, rather than encountering someone who is doing their job, they are interesting people who are having this grand conversation about the things that they have done. if you have the opportunity to advance some employees, i think the people who are going to get ahead are the people who come to

it with a go getter attitude putting the team first. i am happy to answer other questions, but i wanted to lay out to you my background. for those who believe in the higher being, it is kind of a miracle. there is a formula -- hard rock, education, treating education the way you would sports. practicing. when i tell my kids this comedy actually laugh. -- when i tell my kids in this, they actually laugh. when i was in college, i had the chance to study abroad for a year. i was weak and my vocabulary. what did i do? i did not lay my head on a book

and hope through osmosis that it would get in there. i studied the dictionary. before long, that was not a problem for me anymore. thank you for having me and i look forward to answering any questions. >> introduce yourself. >> good evening. my name is rodney mitchell i am honored to be here in my hometown and honored to be passed by congress and homes to come here to testify on an issue that is near and dear to my heart. as it was stated, i am a home boy. i grew up in southeast d.c. i consider myself a survivor of the 1980's. a survivor of one of the period in our history that was so devastating that when i came

back from school in the late 1990's, half of my class were gone seven of the virus a basketball players on the team -- seven of the varsity black -- basketball players were dead from violent crimes. when i heard the call to come here to talk about what black men need to do in the toughest job market in history, i wanted to talk about it from a perspective of the population that i come from. the challenges that we faced as people -- as returning citizens. as a survivor of the 1980's, i will have to give you -- i do not have to dvd gory details. i was never criminally minded, but there were dynamics and circumstances in washington said

-- and lost in d.c. that led a lot of gun african-american males to enter and analysts said markets that had to do with this sale and distribution of crack cocaine. there were subsequently a policy called a war on drugs that systematically ravage our neighborhood in a way that hyper incarcerated, hyper arrested african-american males in record numbers. i witnessed this both in washington d.c. and the ghettos of d.c. and as well as all the wild south central los angeles. -- throughout south-central los angeles. why not making excuses, a lot of these so-called drug dealers -- i will not say they were forced into this market -- but they were compelled to take part in

this market as a means to an end. for some, it was romanticized. for others, it was a day-to-day survival. that is a mixed bag of people who grew up in a federal penitentiary. i do not so-called boiler -- baller who is alive and is now living a so- called normal life. most of those young men and women are dead or doing life in prison. i want to use part of my story to talk about the charge of what black man can do in this tough job market. i am practicing law now also i want to be careful about how i talk about my background. i will tell you that i am very

much rehabilitated after 19 years and i am certainly very remorseful and very dedicated and committed to living a civil and law-abiding lifestyle, that lifestyle continues -- i must deal with every person with a criminal history must deal with this at some level. i will start at the point of redemption and rehabilitation. 1992 -- i was paroled from the california corrections facility and i immediately knew -- before i was paroled, i had already started rehabilitation. my brief exposure to college by attending the university

basketball camp one summer inspired me. i knew i want to go to college. i knew that education was part of my path. particularly higher education. having said that, i had extensive work history as a teenager. i've worked every summer, whether it was a job i found myself. i worked on eight straight. i used to him at the pants of all depends that came through there. -- pimps that came through there. i always kept a job. i knew that work and school was part of my plan to rehabilitate myself. i was not depending on a lot of state programs. because there were none.

fast forward the tape. in 1992, i am in a halfway house and i am looking for work. like many other ex offenders, we look to the industry that will more readily take us. driving is one of the jobs that we can do. everybody gets a c.e.o. licence when you come home from prison. i did as well. -- cdl license. i went down to a temple street in los angeles to get my credentials. i was stopped dead in my tracks. rodney mitchell was a felon. i spent about eight weeks and that program. andlk to my sister's house cried real tears. i knew what was facing me. i was determined that was not going back. my older sister took me to

another place called women at work. i said, i am not going in there. my older sister is like my mom. i took a janitorial job. i got that job by misrepresenting my criminal history. i had just lost one job, so it was either -- call it a white lie about my criminal history or potentially face the streets again. i got that job. i had to test. i had to take a urinalysis test to get this job. i pass that with flying colors. . .

i worked that job for one year. i was promoted to the manufacturing side. i enrolled in a city college. i graduated from a d.c. public school. i was reading at a ninth grade level. i have a lot of free mediation -- of remediation. i transferred to the university of california berkeley.

i wanted to study more about my people and how we ended up in the situation, having heard so much about the civil rights movement. how do we cend of a situation where all the women are on welfare. how do we get here? -- how did we get here? i finish the program. i went on to law school i got into a public interest career that deals specifically with reintegration, reentry of citizens to the jobs and federal government and now my own practice. 60,000 to 100,000 residents of the district of columbia have a criminal history. 2500 return from the present annual. this is just in washington, d.c.

19,000 cycle out a newly -- annually. 36% of president do not have high school diplomas. 26% are high-school graduates. 33% how some college. 80% of returning residents are unemployed at the time of their violation. it often occurs early after initial employment is secured. most returning residents find jobs in the secondary labor market which includes jobs that pay little and allow few opportunities for advancement. they lack important benefits as a result.

our cycling in and out of these jobs -- we are cycling in and out of these jobs. i kind of broke it down into three large categories. there is a technical category. we have heard about it in terms of finding jobs and careers and that kind of thing. there is a spiritual category. is also a category -- there is also a category i use what i am our counsel in various capacities. it is a self-help type of group. wheat talk intimately about the subjects -- we talk intimately about these subjects. it is about being emotionally ready for the job market.

this is what we talk about. we talk about being a competent, , gaining self-esteem through every day wins -not- big things, every day winning. these small wins will help in your self-esteem. the morally, ethically, legally sound to have more authority to stand tall when talking to employers and inquiring about wheork. understanding the dynamics of this job market, experience versus little experiencing. credential verses un-credential. legacy issues -- father worked

this so i got the job. cronyism and nepotism. we become emotionally destroyed will be faced them. understanding the negative stigma associated with a criminal history. i am not afraid to talk about racism in america. employment in this region is one of the most formidable barrier to us finding jobs and the painful -- and being able to successfully integrate. as an attorney, when i talk to clients you are talking about discrimination, i am not sure whether they are talking about discrimination they face as an ex-offender or a black woman or man. we have talked about this.

be prepared to be told "no" over and over and over again. i am talking about emotional fortitude. the community has the responsibility. the government has a responsibility. the individual is what i have been focusing in preparing my people to be ready for the work force. the prepared to be told "no" over and over. be prepared for stress from family, probation officers, a tremendous amount of stress. they are mandated to find stress when they come home. there are precious to find. be prepared to take a job that might be viewed as menial.

make the distinction between a job and a career. there is betting wrong with that menial job for a janitorial job. that is the job and get you over the -- that will get you over the hump and even work history. take menial jobs with enthusiasm and appreciation. strive for excellence in near where. -- in your work. floors used to shine. i was proud of that. because of that good work, a parental may have to take a chance to move into the production side of that of -- a friend took me aside and showed me how to take the chance to move into the production side of that job. it is no.

are no excuses out here. -- there are no excuses out here. we talked about a lot of medical certificates, vocational training, occupational certificates. 24% is on the job training. you have to have credential in some manner of training. everyone has a talent or skill that they can do well. draft a solid rise in may. -- solid resume. the pleasant. smile -- be pleasant. smile. it is ok to smile. there is a tax credit program. learned networking and small talk. talk to your family.

talk to your neighbors. be willing to relocate if necessary. look for entrepreneurial opportunities. the to be your own boss. -- lok g tlook to be your own b. there are laws and mandate that we need to look at as a city and a country that will stop discrimination against this population. in closing, there are at least 3 parties who are responsible for this idea of ex-offenders doing better in the job market. that is the community come individual, the community,

individual, and government. it cannot happen individually. we need to look at working together as a city, a country, to make sure these folks are coming back successfully reintegrated. [applause] >> we thank each of our witnesses for giving up their time and sharing their experiences to the group tonight. i want to give members of the panel an opportunity to ask questions about the witnesses. we will start on this side. >> first of all, let me applaud mr. mitchell, dr. walterters and

jones the testimony. whether you are in washington, los angeles, atlanta, you encounter a young brother on the corner that is unemployed, may feel kids, and is feeling the pressures of being unemployed. someone like myself or any of us sitting here say to them "invest in yourself, get an education." some of the things mr. mitchell said would help. what message do we be conveying to these young people as they are out there dealing with the challenges? what tools could we devise to help them up front? they are an ex-felon, unemployed, have a baby to feed,

and dealing with the family pressures. what are your reactions to that question? >> i guess what i say, and i've had these conversations with family members and former classmates, the absolute first thing is do not make bad matters worse. not come out of desperation, add to the felony conviction another conviction the second thing -- conviction. the second thing i say is to be patient, particularly if it is a friend or family member. they can provide assistance to tide them over.

to answer that more broadly, i would just say to the patient. in the meantime, as you are out looking for jobs going around, and find something to enhance your attractiveness, whether it is finding something in the evenings. find some way to improve your skills said. find some way to reach out to people on the commission who have networking opportunities. those are the specific things i would say. do not make bad matters worse. in the meantime, improve >> i would agree with that. i was impressed with this testimony about coaching individuals. last year, i was up in pittsburgh.

the brothers said, we have and have it here. we take you down first before you get there. they take the downtown to the black community. i was amazed at the number of people that i ran into who were felons. there were stories about what they could get in terms of a license to work or could not. one brother in a barbershop talked about how he would not give up because he wanted to do here. he finally got his license. there were stories about how the discriminate against felons. us belong to.

i would say in terms of our organizations, we have to do a lot of coaching with this particular population. if we read some of the recent books that have come out, they were felons were"they want -- "they were felons" talks about just have the not give up. up until they find someone to help them or some way in still where they can get something to get themselves started. are super motivated. of people who are not. they will need help from somebody else. >> i certainly agree with the comments. i would also add that in many

cases the street corner is probably the worst place to start a discussion about upward mobility when you are in the -- upward mobility. when you are in the state of mind of rising, you have one thing on your mind, to make things neat. we have to find a way to get the men to young places where they can be receptive. they are starving for information. repositories of information is what we have to be. maybe there is a way to bring that message to the street corner. i have not figured that one out yet. when i'm holding these groups twice a month, if these

gentlemen are hungry for information about how to process words, how is education work, how is job development. they are interested in knowing that. we have to become educated ourselves and then we lay our stories of success or struggle to our brothers and sisters. >> i would like to thank congresswoman norton for having this event. as dr. walters said, this is a serious issue. the data does not show what is going on. the word "unemployment" people who lost their jobs. it did not talk about the hopeless rate of people who do not think they can get a job. our people are suffering much more than people even realize or

even the data shows. one question i want to ask the panel is about the box. there are several states that have taken an application off retaken the box off the application where they ask -- they have taken the box of the application where they ask if you have a criminal history. how'd you feel about this? 97% of the brothers and sisters to guide degrees in a certain program never went back. that program was eliminated as well as they programs for the prison where pell grants were eliminated. it put fear into the heart that

the pell grants are being taken away from their children. i went to college and understood that i have a purpose in college. when i was in prison, it helped change my life. our brothers and sisters today are not getting that opportunity. do you think we need to try harder to get it back for d.c. prisons and prisons around the country? >> >my first response to this to say that what i think we need to do is to introduce more people to people like you and people like rodney, because the sense that i have is that when i think about the advocacy groups and

all of the pro bono efforts who are assisting the underprivileged and people who are discriminated against, with the exception of reinstituting voting rights to ex-offenders -- that has gotten a fair amount of coverage -- the broader issues you talk about like employment do not think that has gained currency. i am both impressed and moved by your brothers -- by your brothers. other people have the exposure, i think we could have the ability to move on. i think this hearing is a great opportunity.

i would want to think about other opportunities to engage people like the bar association and other advocacy groups to provide assistance. that would be my first response. >> i agree with that. i think it would be a great organization. there is an expansion movement going on around the country. people have begun to get jobs again and other kind of benefits. the district of columbia. that is certainly a place to start. the pell grant was taken away. that was the period in the

1990's with the crime control act, sponsored in part by bill clinton, pushed by the conservative movement, that took away a whole rash of the fitts who were incarcerated. -- of the benefits who were incarcerated. it does a mean -- it was a mean bill. it is time to talk about repeal. i really have people talking about repealing some of this step. they finally got to talk about the sentencing. it. 1 to 100. it is now 1 to 18. that is a form of repeal of three strikes you are out. lot of these draconian things

really are pushing people back out into our community even more dangerous than before. that is what i say we ought to be doing. >> thank you for that question. man theb o box -- ban the box is an attempt the ve. once the employer is the offer, then it is inappropriate time to talk about what the crime was. is there a rational relationship that you see here? of traditions have used successfully to eliminate that question on the application.

that question essentially takes you out of the pool. can say what you want, but you will be removed from the pool of applicants was they see that box checked. we tell a lot of people to say a "we will discuss it in the interview." we have to educate employers about a loss of human capital when we refuse to hire those who have criminal histories. there are thousands of people dying to get work. education will definitely increase your chance of success to reintegrate. a college program in the penitentiary makes sense. it is straightforward. there is not a lot to that.

one thing bush did it do well is allow the pell grant to -- if you had a drug offense, you were not eligible for the federal funding. that was killed in 2006. now you can get federal financial aid. that is a good things. we need those kind of opportunities. >> i want to make a statement in the interest of time. we are scheduled to adjourn in a little over 20 minutes. we want to it knowledge this great response from the public. we want to give them an opportunity to ask questions. i am going to defer my questions. i will ask the commissioners to limit the question to one. then we can have the opportunity from the various people in the audience. >> mr. mitchell, you mentioned

that when you got your first job and you lost your cdl opportunity, was that because your employer found out that you were an ex-offender? i run a school. we train all the technicians. my understanding is that the federal government provides bodning for -- bonding for ex- offenders. it is my understanding that employers do not support this. they will not accept the bond. do you know anything about that? >> we have a federal bonding program that works through the department of employment service. if the person has to be made an offer. then they bond is offered. a lot of employers are not moved

by the bond. it is not enough. our bonds starts at $5,000. it is not attractive or an incentive for employers to take this $5,000 bond. they are looking at their risk being beyond that amount. >> do you think it would be better to be bigger? >> i think it would help. >> all of you made some very profound statement as it relates to work force development. i can attest to that. i have been a work force professional for over 25 years. there are a number of free programs in washington, the apprenticeship program at the department of employment services, and the continuing education program at the university of the district of columbia. how does an individual make that

decision? that is a hard road to determine. all of those opportunities are real. based on your experiences, if you could say what to that individual? how do you make that decision on which road to travel? >> well, one thing you cannot afford to do is to create a mismatch between the nature of the economy and the skill set that you are training for. i would be realistic about that. washington, d.c. has been criticized because it is not producing the kind of employable people for the nature of the economy that it has. that is the first thing. you have to be realistic about that. if you want to train to be a nasa technician, fine.

go farther. hear, you are talking about a whole series -- here, you are talking about a whole series of managerial jobs like that. one has to take that into consideration. >> thank you. >> i would like to open the floor. there are microphones on both sides. we have about 15 minutes. if we use that time wisely, one question, tried to limit it to a minute. -- we should hopefully hear from four or 5 people. >> thank you very much the. we are in the 21st century. there is a different type of global economy. science and mathematics are critical to getting any type of jobs. now when you go for jobs even

for hamburger joints, if you have to be able to pack a math exam. this hurts me. i would to a job interview several years ago. there were only three african american males and a field of the math. i was recently on a bus and the young guy had to do a math test so he could get hired by an employer. is there any way you have a program set up so they can be literate anin math so they can be litter its as well as know how to -- literate as well as know how to do math so they can face unemployment. >> i will try to address part of your question. i have a technology company. you are absolutely correct. we are really focusing in on the wrong aspect of their challenge.

a lot of young people are unsuccessful at math her because they cannot read. today's match, if your reading comprehension is not of a certain level, you will struggle with math. in terms of resources, you are correct. math is increasingly important. the use of basic computer skills are increasingly important. there are resources at community colleges, public libraries. there are tutoring programs. some organizations are represented here. you really have to do a lot of homework to find people that are willing to help there. it is a huge problem. it is one of the reasons that

organizations such as ours are asstem schools. -- are opening stem schools. homeless community. you have people who cannot get jobs and have been sent there for quite some time. -- stuck there for quite some time. the menial jobs do not pay the rent. there is much to be said about as the excitement of any expungement of any felony.

it stays on your record for life. in other programs focus on ex- ahmadicons homeless -- ex-cons and homeless. homeless community. these jobs you can train the homeless to do, will they pay a living wage? she said, what is bad? $24 an hour in d.c. she said she get to $12 an hour. want to make half of what makes you live in d.c., yet to be a mechanic. how do you respond to that issue of having programs that focus on

training and employing the hard to employee communities like the homeless? >> not to be self-serving, but we train auto mechanics. we have a two-year school that does not cost any money. if you cannot read or can are right, come to us. us. >> several returned citizens work on this. there will be one program teaching return systems to learn a landscaping business. then they can set up their own businesses and a gifted contract. that is how we need to think. they have skills. if you are selling drugs, you know how to run a business.

people are coming from virginia in getting all these contracts. there are so many things that can be done in this city if so many contracts that are going out -- we have to teach people how to do these jobs and acquired training and move forward. >> i am one of the ex-offenders. i have a degree in culinary arts and restaurant management. i have a chauffeur's license. the problem i am running into is this. when i go on job interviews, the jobs are not there. the jobs that were there 10 years ago are not there now. what i am trying to do is net worth. i go work with social services,

employment services. they tell me about the programs. when i go, if they are not what they claim to be. i am willing to do anything outside my field. i will go to get employment anywhere. i do not care well. >> i want to respond to that in a positive way. you have to be industry specific. i can understand your true need. employers today look for specific skills. you have to look at your transferrable skills from previous jobs. if you have to recognize where your strengths are. what are your strengths? that will keep you from just running in a circle. you have to 0 in and the focus and determined -- zero in and be focused and determined. >> i would like to thank the

congresswoman for having this forum. i commend her for this. i worked on a d.c. job coalition with mr. mitchell. i think what we really need to do is bring employers into these meetings. the employers are not explaining what it is that they want from people as an employee. some of the blacks that to come up, some are employable ex- offenders. a lot of times we do not know these things. they do not know some of the things they can do to minimize the issues. i do think it will have to wind up with some kind of legislation. i work with an employer now you if you have a felony, 10 years

after your last day of probation you are eligible for unemployment. they are not even eligible to work for the company until the year 2023. how realistic is that? was the sentence seven years or 27 years? how do you feel for pushing for faster legislation that prohibits employers from discriminating? >> there is legislation constantly coming. one is a human rights bill for returning citizens. people like the d.c. chamber of commerce have constantly come down there and made legislative fight against the bill. it is the only way that i can see people will have rights in the dish of columbia with the

items you just -- in the district of columbia with the items you just stated. like many of the person to ask questions tonight know the various opportunities. use this as an opportunity to network. >> when i drive through the city and look at the folks who are doing the work, i see people coming in from maryland, virginia. i see black men standing on corners unemployed. i see other folks got the jobs. something is wrong there. i do not want folks to think i embraces. -- i am racist. most of the the people that have the jobs are hispanic. you do not have to be qualified

to dig a ditch. something is wrong when folks are making money that do not live in this city. they do not pay taxes. they do not contribute to the economy of the city. i would not carry if they hire hispanics that live in washington, d.c. something needs to be done. we need to look at what other folks can do. the contractors of the city do not liane in -- live in d.c. i would like to commend eleanor norton for what she does. we need to look at that and do something about that. we need to enforce that particular law. >> thank you. the gentlemen here on the left.

lot of companies and jobs. if you have a bad credit for, it seems stupid. degrees. somebody needs to start some legislation to make it illegal. it is the most insane thing you you have to get a job. how do we address that? >> i think the congress woman knows the answer. we just passed a piece of legislation. this issue of credit scores was taken up. one of the objectives was to do

what you are talking about come to stop using credit scores for things like employment. i do not know if that actually got in the bill. ok, all right. that is on the radar screen. >> with the credit scores, it should not have anything to do with anything, insurance, anything that you do. why would it impact any of that? it is in the middle of everything. >> a great point. thank you for that. >> good evening. as i listen to you testify, i do not see a lot of it. i do not see it. we need to have some black owned automotive businesses in d.c. i have been in the back of the community for close to two-years

trying to work. it is being made extremely hard. most all of these construction companies are discriminating against african american men in the d.c. what i am puzzled about is why are all these people that are supposed to be doing this or that allowing taxpayers to go to people that refuse to hire african american men for just a simple general labor job. have a good evening. >> does anyone want to comment? >> part of the answer has been identified. as the population reenters, we

have to be more of a united voice in lobbying and being present at congressional and city council hearings. we think that is a great problem. we have to have great enforcement in that area. >> how is everybody doing? i have just been released from prison two months ago. i cannot find a job nowhere. i do not have any marketable skills. i am enrolled in college. the programs that are out here, i took a three week course at upo -- they spent me. they do not have any jobs lined up. the paperwork. if you go through the whole process and you get no employment.

are there any programs out here that guarantee and employment for people that is trying to work? >> are you talking about a job that you get what you are in training for a guaranteed job actor? you have to have the skills. training. >> but at some point you have to pay your rent as well. i am getting my bachelors. not have any marketable skills. in the meantime, i still have got to pay my rent and pay for my travel expenses. to go to school full-time. >> are you currently on supervision? >> yes, five years. >> let me talk to you after this. michael jones said do not make the situation worse. the patient. there is no substitute for time. do what you are doing.

do things to enhance yourself. i will be glad to talk to after this. >> of rights. maybe one of the gentleman can give me some assistance. >> i want to thank congresswoman eleanor holmes norton for this event. this has been touched upon by the gentleman from the dreadlocks and other people. this is about the guys on the corner. and when he to watch this. basically, it is a generational thing. we have a lot of young kids watching the older guys hanging out on the corner. nowadays when you are hanging out on the corner, you look across the street any see the hispanic guys rehabing the homes.

my whole question deals with how do you break that generational curse? we all have done it. the majority of us when we get older get jobs. i do not see that happening on the corner. now i see the hispanic to cannot speak english earning a living while our guys are holding up the corner. >> one of the problems is the -[unintelligible] i watched my grandmother and grandfather going to work every day to make sure we were all right. even though i went astray, one thing i was always told was to work hard. what i know need to happen is go in showed the young brothers and sisters that there is another way.

we have a society that always makes excuses. when people come around me, i showed them a way. i do not give them no excuses. my mother and father used drugs. that is why i did not use drugs. more brothers and sisters need to go back and pulled the younger brothers and sisters of the street in showed them the right way. i do not care about what no white man is doing or no other man is doing. we have to go back and grab our babies. we have to open up our own stores and starting our own businesses and stop hating on others. we pull each other down. we have got to be more examples.

we have to show them right ththt way. we can do this. it is possible. >> let me say this. the library has been kind enough to give vested more minutes or so. if we use the time wisely, we can hear from everyone and let the congresswomen have the last word. >> i also would like to think congresswoman norton for commissioning this group here. i think all of you on the panel are an inspiration, in particular mr. mitchell. the words that you shared with us tonight is really an inspiration. thank you for what you are doing. my question is directed to dr.

ron walters and mr. mitchell. we talk about education for employment. we still assert that we are the first fire but the last hire. do we address the issue of income and wealth in our communities if we are still under siege in the work force? how does the process work? how do we learn to create jobs in our own communities? >> i think it has been discussed over and over. we looked around and there are other folks doing jobs that we know how to do. when i was growing up, all the guys had a hard hat. they were building seven washington, d.c. we know how to do the work. these jobs that you are talking about such as landscaping, those

are things we can do easily and readily. it is a matter of you getting a certain licence 3 they cdra in doing the work. -- license through the cdra and doing the work. >> i do not want you to talk as though you have a choice. we do not have a choice. we do have to confront the work system with a degree of skill that will enable us to do what we need to do. we are going to run across raise some -- racism. there is racism. we are going to have to fight that is a mandate that we have

to deal with. we will have to carry all of these things on our shoulders that we will always carry. we will deal with our families. we have to push back against anyone who is pushing against the spread of -- against us. i understand your question. we do not have any choice. >> thank you. >> i want to address this question basically to -- my confusion is that there is no shorconfusion is that there is o shortage of jobs in d.c. the shortage is of people with the skills to take these jobs.

we will solve our problems. positions that are readily i wanted to add one other thing. i noticed that this will

youth in those fields learn in six weeks? >> let me answer your question. you are right. it makes me nuts when there are all these federal programs that are like 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. they are fake problems. you cannot learn any true trade in 90 days. in terms of places you can go for training, i run an institute that is a two-year

school. we raise the money. we teach you to read and write. we teach you a trade. you can come to us. that lady in the blue shirt has applications. we opened up 200 spot in the fall. at the end of the day, you have to have a trade or you are kidding yourself. you are right. there are organizations were you we are one of them. >> i'm a two-year graduate of industrial engineering from the university of michigan. the point about [inaudible] >> we will be through in five

separate duplex the point about the dynamics of -- in 5. >> the point about the dynamics of jobs. i get hounded by family and friends. why apply to beginners when i went to school for engineering? i feel like certain jobs i have the potential to do. i just lust without trying to get into. -- lost what i was trying to get into. >> i passed the bar in 2002. in 2005, i was working at a bed, bath, and beyond. i had to pay the bills. that is what it boils down to. you do what you have got to do until you can do better. if you get the job, and then you find the next job.

that is the way it works. >> thank you. >> this is addressed to the young man that just spoke. you spoke about the box. what are the necessary steps to get an employer accept an employee? you said a $5,000 bond, a $10,000 bond is even better. what can one do to get the employer to accept the employee so it can be raised from $5,000 to $10,000? >> employers need standardizations. we talked about the bonding program that provides a $5,000 bond. sometimes, that is not adequate

for an employer to want to incentivize their employer to take on an employee. that was in the context of that discussion. maybe we need to increase our bond or have a city bond that matches the federal bond as well. >> what does one do to get this done? is it a law that has to be imposed? >> do what you are doing right now. you need to be present at city council hearings. you need to lobby your city council and all the folks. >> i want to speak in reference to miss thornton. i appreciate your coming out this evening. i know she has been dedicated to her people. i love her very much.