>> plus, your e-mails and phone calls. "washington journal" is next. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] host: good morning and welcome to "washington journal" on sunday, august 22, 2010. we will talk with greg mortenson, the author of "three cups of tea". we will also hear from the deputy international editor of time magazine. at 8:30, the whistle-blower

protection act, which is stalled in the senate, the executive director of the national whistleblowers center, stephen kohn, joins us. has the economy changed your investment habits? the number for republicans is 202-737-0001, democrats is 202- 737-0002 and independents at 202-628-0205. you can email us at journal@c- span.org or send us a tweet at twitter.com/cspanwj. "investors flee the stock market. americans see risk even as companies have recovered. they are testing in the americas -- america's love affair with the stock market --"

host: one analyst said that small investors are losing their appetite for risk. "the notion that stocks are safe and profitable over time seems to be dented. job instability has altered americans' sense of economic security. investors were quick to re-enter the stock market, but the

attitudes after the great depression affected americans for decades. people are not going to rush toward the stock market on a sustained basis until they feel more confident of employment growth and sustainability of economic recovery. a lot of money is still flowing into the stock market from smaller investors. but ordinary investors -- " our question is, has the economy changed your investment habits? daniel joins us. an independent scholar. good morning. caller: yes, it has. i had a 401 (k) from my job.

i still have it. the last two years, i saw -- you know what happened. the good news is that i have come back and now i am really watching it all the time. i want to keep it from ever start falling again. i do not have any big investments. host: it sounds like you are leaving things where they are for now. caller: yes. i know you cannot really give back all that i've lost, but... host: the "the new york times" piece is says that another force at work is the aging of the baby boom generation. they are shifting their investments away from stocks to provide guaranteed income for the years when they are no longer working. the flight from stocks may also

be driven by households and can no longer tap into home equity for cash and may need the money for ordinary expenses. what are you doing with your investments? good morning. caller: i am a landlord. the prices of things have gone up. when i lose all renter, it takes some months to get another one in here. down here in louisiana, -- the unemployment just went up to 7.2%. this housing bubble, i had about 50% of the house and all our people who bought second properties -- 50 percent of the housing bubble are people who bought second properties.

and then there is more millionaires now today than there were, say, 10 years ago. we have more millionaires and secondary houses is what caused the housing bubble. no investments. i live paycheck to paycheck. and am thankful for that. " john on are democrats line in california. good morning. go ahead. you are on the air. caller: i guess maybe the time is of heard my situation, i am one of those that has been taking money off of my 401k because i do not have any income. host: you are relying on that?

caller: i have my credit cards maxed out. host: let's look back at the "the new york times" story which says, investors were frayed by the flash crash. investors pulled $19.10 billion from domestic equity funds in may, the largest of flows since the height of the financial crisis in october, 2008. the question is, if you are changing your investment have this, why? is because of concerns over the volatility of the stock market or because you need cash? there are couple of stories in the news today from the new york post. boomers are flocking to fixed income. investors are looking at the treasuries market and wondering,

is it a major bubble? is it is dangerous as the stock market bubble in 2008? while the answer is nobody knows for sure, some people believe that treasurers could still go higher, although two-yields are near record lows. after having lived through two major stock market crashes in 10 years, they fear another equity crash could wipe out their retirement funds. financial advisers say they are leaning towards treasuryies because they are safer. edward in los angeles, california. good morning. caller: i used to be a republican, and i used to have a lot of stocks, but in the last year and a half, -- i made money on ford at $1.50 and was able to

travel across the country like i wanted to do. this year, i put $300 into zap, which made electric cars that they sold to korea, and i quadruple. d. in this market that seems to have petered out at 10,000, everybody that has big money -- host: let's look at twitter. "i have moved of my money out of the stock market. -- to bond funds. i still have my money. wall street is full of criminals." next up is hunt still, texas. brian, independent line.

have your investments changed because of the economy? caller: i am with the previous caller. it is paycheck to paycheck right now. hon still is a death row capital of the universe. -- huntsville is death for capital of the universe. everybody is on food stamps and scraping by. i am waiting for this system to collapse so we can get out of the federal reserve system. host: top headlines from "the new york times". "obama and the drawdown" --

host: looking at the war in ir aq, "the washington post", they write about five myths about leaving. the u.s. has no more combat troops in iraq. he corrects that. the majority are combat troops, but they are named something else. another myth is that iraq is secure enough that it will not fall back into civil w war. he writes, security has improved, but the jury is out about what will happen in the months in a year aheaand the ye.

and counterparts on the left, tried to insist, that the change in u.s. strategy had no impact on iraq's politics whatsoever. another myth -- iraqis want u.s. troops to say. he says that is complicated. the final myth is "the war will end on schedule." americans' involvement in iraq will hopefully be reduced, but the need for u.s. presence will indoor for years. -- endure for years. let's get back to your calls, on a question this morning, has the economy change your investment habits? phil, on the independent line. caller: good morning.

i am basically holding cash because wall street has become such a big behemtohoth, where ty take their fees and profits and have to pay salaries. i invest 20% of my income in the the stock market. they are taking money and paying salaries. that's why you see it as a 10,000 -- the dow. host: let's go to new york state. robert r. democrats won. good morning. has the economy changed your investment habits? caller: i went from 100% equities to 100% bonds. host: why? caller: it was a good while it lasted, and investors told may only look every quarter or every

six months because it will drive you crazy. but i loved every night because i could not afford to lose anything -- i looked every night because i could not afford to lose anything. if you lose more than 8%, you'll never get it back. once i started to lose, it's started to make me sick and i went to catch. then the lehman brothers collapse happened, and that made me sick. it is no longer about return on capital. all that counts is return of capital. we are in a deflation depression or we are close that. host: do you mean that it made you sick philosophically? caller: no. literally. when you accumulate money by

working over a lifetime, and you begin to lose it, that makes me sick. host: from twitter. "i moved all of my 841 k to silver." to more international news. this a story from haiti -- "the washington post" -- in tent cities, no sign of all that money. an estimated 1.3 million haitians are still living in tents or under leaky tarps on able to protect themselves from the summer rains, even though foreign governments and charities have pledged billions of dollars for relief and reconstruction. another story about iran, inaugurating the first unmanned bomber.

calling it an ambassadaoor of death for the enemies of humanities -- and ahmadinejad said that it has a message of peace and humanity. it was inaugurated on a national day for the countries defense industry. this ceremony aired on live television. no details were provided on the craft's capabilities. has the economy changed your investment strategies? that is our question this morning. whether you have concerns about the volatility of the stock market, concerned about losing your money. is there a change that is short- term or long-term about how americans are choosing to invest? hughes is on line from houston.

good morning. go ahead. caller: i did not understand your question. host: has the economy changed your investment habits? caller: and i managed 10 accounts. the they are family accounts. i stay on the market a much shorter time than i used to. all the big brokerage houses say buy and hold. that is the opposite of what i do. i mainly keep the money out of the market and go in for short period of time every week. host: ok. next caller in norfolk. steve, republicans line. caller: how are you? host: what do think about the economy and how it is changing the way americans are investing?

caller: i am really surprised as to how and educated people are when it comes to the economy and investing. you talked to people and they can tell you everything there is to know about sports or other sports team, and you start talking to them about investing and the terminology, the language of money, and they are totally lost. host: how should they get more educated? is that the job of schools or families? caller: it's got to be a mtte atter of an attitude of survival in this day and age. there are people still alive today that were farming with horses as children.

when i look at the world today and people think that this is reality, where it is reality, theyyet, they're just -- are just assuming that this is the way it is. i am not sure what i am trying to say there. host: let's look to some of them domestic stories in the news this morning. from "the washington post" -- the iowa egg producer at the center of the salmonella outbreaks has repeatedly paid fines. concerns there over the salmonella outbreak. the rnc has just $5 million on

hand. they spend twice as much then they raised in july. with less than three months before the 2010 midterm elections. in a report filed friday, the rnc showed $5.5 million raised in more than $11 million spent last month. the committee ended july with $5.3 million in the bank into $2.2 million in debt. the dnc raised $11.6 million last month. they ended the period with $10.8 million in the bank. the president warned voters saturday about corporate donations in midterm campaigns

after a supreme court decision that allows companies, unions, and others to spend unlimited amounts of money on behalf of canada's for the first time. newport beach, california. michael r. democrats line. good morning. caller: good morning. contrary to your listeners and people that have called, i got out of the market in 2008 when there was a depressed market and went back in two or three months later, but specific stocks -- bought specific stocks, held them until today, they have appreciate it over 30%. so i have done -- i stayed in the market. i believe in the equity and in a growth economy. i think they should concentrate on the s&p 500 stocks that are

best of breed. host: an opinion piece by 80 gonzalez.gonzalalberto he weighs in about the 14th .mendment prepart -- "based on what i've observed, most illegal immigrants contribute to our economy. nevertheless, we are a nation of laws. when people break the law with impunity, it encourages a further disrespect for the role of law. mr. gonzalez says that most recently politicians and citizens have expressed an interest to amend the 14th amendment which allows people

born in the united states to become citizens. however, he says, he does not support amending the 14th amendment. he writes that based on principles from my tenure as a judge, i think constitutional amendments should be preserved for extraordinary circumstances. because most undocumented workers come here to provide for themselves and their families, a constitutional amendment will not solve the crisis. people will continue to cross our borders and respected of the possibility of u.s. citizenship -- irrespective of the possibility of u.s. independent. mike on our independent line. i think we lost him. indiana, republican line. caller: like most americans, i am concerned about my spending as well as savings.

a lot of what i have earned is put into savings. my greatest concern right now is i think the president has been a very poor model with what is going on right now. i think of congress, even the judicial branches of for that matter, should be conservative in their spending. we should see a 10% change in their salaries like they are expecting us as americans to undertake. reduce costs, just like they are expecting us americans do. i would like to see the president take a reduction in pay, see it happen in congress. i think that would be a good model. i think it would have a tremendous impact on the average american and give us more confidence. thank you for the opportunity to speak. host: "based on the responses, there are no expectations of inflation. most are expecting deflation."

we are wondering if you are doing more aggressive investments. has the economy changed your investments? in virginia beach, virginia. democrats line. hi there. caller: hi. that helpedng i did me the most is i started contributing to a roth ira, as opposed to a 401k. once i reached a 59.5 and withdraw that money and have no taxes on it at all, and the government has only one way to tax me, when i first put in. host: we are talking about money. thus look at "the new york times"'s sunday opinion piece. social security is celebrating

its 75th birthday. some analysts fearthat the impending retirement of the baby boom generation precipitates a crisis. it is worth considering innovations to make the program more efficient and equitable. they ask folks to weigh in. one of those people is an economist at the economic policy institute. employers should pay up, and says there should be of higher cap on people will make higher salaries. their employers should contribute more by slowly raising the cap. it would raise more revenues so that it would eventually covered 90%. it would eliminate a projected shortfall. another person weighs in and says that 62 is too young to start people on social security. this is a former treasury department official who writes

that it should be 70. those are some suggestions on how to change social security. another one, social security shares it invest in collateralized debt obligations -- oops. that doesn't work. he says, actually, it is in much better shape than medicare. it is in better shape than the rest of the federal budget. before fixing social security, we should think about what it is we want to cure. our question this morning is has the economy changed your investments? let's go to metropolis, illinois. bill, independent line. caller: good morning.

yes, the situation has changed. i retired in 1995 at the age of 60. i took my 401 k and rolled it over to an ira and put it in bills. as things develop towards a depression -- which we are in a depression -- i put the moneyi in gold mining stocks and my 401 k is much better than it was. if you watched the price of gold, the price of gold mining stocks will follow suit. so i'd trade it in and out about three or four times a year. i do make a nice profit by it. there is a guy named bob chapman. he is one of the best financial analysts i have heard of.

he has a web site -- international investor.com -- he said when gold was $300 per ounce, he said by gold. jones hiten the dow 12,000, to get out. i would advise anyone to go on his website. caller: good morning. i am thinking about the question you have on the screen today. our investment strategy is up until two years ago was in the market, and we saw what was happening. we got out. the market went to cash -- went to cash. went into the rental market because of the inflated prices in california.

we rent to young people. we purchased three homes. we asked what they can afford it and came to a reasonable agreement, and we have been very successful in this in the last year and a half. the young people have stayed with us. i think a lot of people allow other individuals to manage their money and their investments, where we are invested locally and the rentals. we put some repairs, approximately $20,000, back into the local economy to get these rentals ready to rent. host: coming up this week on our c-span program at "newsmakers", representative ed markey of massachusetts. he is probing the bp oil spill. guest: climate change is so

popular -- a tax on that. do think anyone will pay a political price this fall for having stood in the way of climate change legislation? guest: it is the entire minority that is blocking progress, and they are doing so in a way that is successful. but i envision that there will be a reverse political take down in many districts across our country when the ads run on wind, solar, on plug-in hybrids, contrasting the members supports that with the member who opposes it. backing out of opec, backing out of the renewable and other industries the chinese want to

do. whatever republicans have aligned themselves with that kentucky coal and oklahoma oil agenda will end up with a very big surprise on election day. host: you can see the entire interview on "newsmakers" at 10:00 a.m. at 6:00 p.m. an also, coming up this week, on "washington journal", we'll continue our summer series and start looking at it tomorrow, defense issues. on tuesday, the mine-resistant ambush protected vehicles. on wednesday, we focus on the military use of drones. thursday, a special on military pay. on friday, we will look at the

rehabilitation process for those injured in iraq and afghanistan. that starts tomorrow on "washington journal", continuing our summer series programming. our question right now is has the economy changed your investment habits? we have janet, from virginia. a democratic color. good morning. caller. caller: living paycheck to paycheck and cannot get much better. you talk about social security. i live in a very small town. a population of 600 people. 1/3 of people are on disability and not one living thing wrong with them. and that is what is wrong with social security. i am sure our town is not the only one in that position.

host: mobile, alabama. jim on our independent line. caller: i have been very fortunate. i worked as an engineer and i am relatively young. the amount of money i have put into investments has not changed a lot. but what has changed is how much attention i paid to my investment products. with the crisis, i am concerned about future asset bubble is that may be created in financial markets. i want to be sure i do not get caught -- taken by surprise like a was a year and a half ago. host: mona joins us from virginia. caller: yes. can you hear me? host: i can. thank you. caller: when i first inherited

some money, i put it in the stock market. i trusted him completely. i thought that he could do everything. when he sold the very stocks i had inherited, he said they were not profitable. then i learned i was on the market. i did not even know what that meant. i would get these bills saying i had to pay and he said i did not have to pay. to make a long story short, after losing $80,000, i asked him about my 401k. he said that was rolled over. it blew my mind. i spent two hours listening to c-span's wonderful program last night about the economy and the budget.

oh, it was so wonderful. i learned so much. i am a strong republican, but i have to say the only good thing i can say about obama is that he -- one person said that he has had eight requests from obama to upgrade the technology and to organize it in such a way that they are all working together and that they will stop making changes until they catch up with all the technology. computer today, in 18 months you need a new one. that is what is wrong with the economy. but it was a most informative

program, aired last monday. i hope it will do it over and over and over again so people know what the government budget does. host: let's check twitter. invest in the economy until energy policy is adjusted. there will not be any jobs and to we move green." caller: my name is teddy, and i am calling in regards to social security. it is gotten so bad that people cannot make it. getting put out. bills are going up and up. they are not going up on social security. they need to go up on social security so people can make it,

because the longer that we stay down jobwise, we won't get out of this recession we are in. and we need to try to make more jobs. when obama went in there, the united states was in a big mess. host: let's take a look at international news. this comes from australia. australians and failed to deliver a clean win in the national elections. the parliament faces a stalemate on saturday after voters failed to deliver clear majority. with about 3/4 of the votes counted saturday, lawmakers from both parties conceded they were

unlikely to get enough votes to form a majority in the house of representatives. disgruntled with the two upon its, voters turned to independent candidates and the green party which captured its first seed in the house. support for the greens was seen as a repudiation by traditional labor voters of that parties decision to shelve its cap and trade energy plan until after the year 2012. back to the question -- has the economy changed your investment habits? sam in tennessee. good morning. caller: i'm on? host: you are. caller: one thing first -- investment habits. investment is not a habit. it should be a strategy or a plan. nyway, i want to put in m uy

strong feelings about the stock market. it's not an investment any more. it is a crapshoot. 7% of the trade in the stock market are high-frequency traders, from individuals to trade and do not want to think about keeping a stock a day. and then up to and including the big outfits with the computers set up to trade based on what is coming in from the stock market information. the flash crash that happened several months ago, we never did get a reason for it. schapiro is just a continuation of an outfit that

is useless. host: has your strategy of investment changed? caller: no, because the old thing about the stock market people, experts, saying buy and hold has been refuted over and over, but they still do it. host: let's look at this graphic in "the new york times". investors have been pulling their money out of stocks and putting more into the relative safety of the bonds. you can see the trending there. looking at the tall blond flow. we will go to our next call in tallahassee, florida. tom, a republican. has the economy changed your investment habits? to virginia.

productive calls. let's go to market, democrats line. welcome. -- to mark, democrats line. caller: frankly, i think the average person cannot do well in this market. i take several hours to businesses every day. i go to that. it requires such informed decision making to be successful, that i do not think people have the time to invest in doing that. in this time of program trading and high-speed trading, i do not see that the average person can be successful without major adjustments in the way the market operates. host: it sounds like you watch the markets a lot. what is your opinion on doing that daily observance of versus putting your money in and riding it out long term? caller: buy and hold, you

will get bloodied badly. you need to watch it daily. sometimes a moment to moment. i am pessimistic about the opportunities for the average investor. in t: hhost: is there danger watching the stock market too closely? caller: of course, but only if you do not realize that some things are short-term fluctuations. the amount of education that you have to invest in understanding this market is so large and such a daily commitment that i do not think the average person has the time to do that. host: thanks for your calls. we will look at the political and economic impact of the floods in pakistan with our

guest greg mortenson who wrote the book "three cups of tea". we'll be right back. ♪ >> one of the things i regret about political life in washington is that every major figure, from the president on down, is merely reading what somebody else and some committee has produced. >> philip terzian wrote speeches, and he is the literary editor at the "weekly standard". he will share his insights on washington on c-span's "q&a". >> i am not saying senator

mitchell's report is wrong. i am saying the statements about me are wrong. let me be clear. i have never taken steroids. >> with roger clemens's indictment, go back and watch all of the hearings on steroid use and baseball online at the c-span video. watch what you want when you want. >> it is history week on "book tv." monday night, three books on explorers. peter mancall, searching for the northwest passage in 1610. and the life of the founder of quebec. all this week on c-span 2. "washington journal" continues. host: our guest, greg mortenson,

is the co-founder of the central asia institute and th e author of "three cups of tea". what is the philosophy behind your book? guest: i have been working for 17 years in pakistan and afghanistan. when i started out, i had a lot of problems because i was micromanaging. an old a villager told me that if you want to which your, you need three cups of tea, the first cup you're a stranger, second is friend and the third is family. and he will do anything for family. so much intensity in

pakistan. we are hearing about the flooding there. experts warn that pakistan could collapse. this story says the economic disaster caused by the worst flood in their history could spark political unrest that could destabilize and the government, dealing a major blow to the obama administration's efforts to fight islamic extremism. let's talk about what is happening in pakistan. can you give us a sense of the devastation there? guest: i have worked there for 17 years, and this is the worst tragedy in the countries history. 20 million people have been displaced. this crisis, if you add up the tsunami and the earthquake in 2005, the devastation, the total sum of that -- now what is happening is people

need food and shelter. the second issue is that notice are cropping up, typhoid and diphtheria. people do not have crops for six months or year. the scale of it is just very tragic. it is happening at a critical time. the concern in the media and on capitol hill is the terrorism issue, but i feel, being that iw humanitarian work, that the country needs a tremendous support right now. we need to reach out to the people there. host: we have this piece from the a p. the un secretary general said he never saw anything like the flood disaster in pakistan. he urged donors to speed up assistance to the 20 million people affected.

"this is been a heart wrenching day for me. i will never forget the destruction and suffering are witnessed today. i have witnessed many natural disasters, but nothing like this." does that put it in perspective for you? guest: i was in pakistan. i was there in 2005 after the earthquake, and there's no-- in these areas impacted, there is no shelter, nor communication. the government is washed away or non existent. in pakistan, the military was able to respond very quickly. the government is overwhelmed. the military has 80,000 troops working on the disaster. to the u.s.'s credit, there are already about two dozen

helicopters sent over there. hillary clinton has made a second pledge of $50 million, but the cost is in the billions to help the people out. host: the work that you've done, you have been instrumental in getting schools set up there. what is happening to the infrastructure and to the schools there? guest: all our schools are fine. we focus on girls' schools. during disasters, we focus on refugee camps. in those areas, people have down time, in 2005, during military operations, a lot of people go into refugee camps and are subject to exploitation or different groups come in and

recruit militants. i think education is imperative, not only food and shelter and medicine, but education is a very important. host: in washington. and a lot on our democrats line -- angela on our democrats line. caller: i wonder what he thought about obama's new mission to reach out to the muslim world. i think we made muslim a bad word and that is unfortunate. the new york mosque thing. obama has reached out to the

muslim world, and i find it tragic and the sense that we have turned it on its head and made it backwards. guest: it's been good to see that there are a lot of u.s. efforts to reach out to the islamic community. obviously, much more could be done. having worked in tribal areas, part of tribal culture is that you dialogue, and build relationships. if there are to build factions that do not get along, but they will get together in a jurga, like a meeting of elders, and they should not leave that discussion until they come to a resolve. in the u.s., if we disagree,

we hire an attorney or quit talking to each other. but i have learned that it is important that we dialogue with each other. i think the same thing with iran or other situations where it is tense. it is imperative. we do not have to agree or even like each other. but it is imperative that we have a dialogue. it is the pillar of tribal society. host: this is from "the new york times" to date -- experience is in no match for breaches in the flood plain. half of a school for girls was shorn off in the flood. within 20 hours, 20 feet of water surged into the village. a canal breached its walls. local police raised the alarm and most people got out,

waiting for water, but three people died when their house collapsed on them. the story goes on to detail the devastation happening in pakistan right now. what international aid is needed there? guest: the first thing in any disaster is obviously food, shelter, medicine. the other thing is that the pakistan government itself, the infrastructure in the impacted areas at the district level, has been very effective. there needs to be organization. for example, like in haiti, many, many charities reach the out, thousands of people coming to help, but until there was some semblance of organization -- in pakistan, the military got involved very quickly in the earthquake in 2005.

that also helped them. there needs to be some way to get the help to the people who are most deserving and needy. host: how does the u.s. and pakistan's relationships and with the international community affect aid going in? guest: pakistan has gone to some tragic events -- the earthquake, the economy, different governments there. the u.s. and pakistan -- i look at things historically. pakistan has helped out the u.s. is significantly in the last 60 years. the iraq pact back in the 1950's, were they brokered between the saudis and the u.s. for all. -- for oil. pakistan provided secret bases

in the 1960's said the u.s. could spy on the soviet union. during the 1980's, pakistan was the conduit for the were jardine afghanistan. when the u.s. wants something, but we try to work pakistan as a on the other but hand, we have an adverse relationship. it is the largest country in that area, and it is so important that we have relationships with the pakistani people. host: not that a tragedy is anything to capitalize on, but is there an opportunity for the international community to make more political inroads in pakistan through aid and building relationships and helping people? guest: i hope so.

when obama first got into his presidency, he declared afghanistan his top international party, but unfortunately, for while there were not any gestures. it is only recently. now it is exciting because senator kerry and senator lugar have been over several times, military commanders have made several trips to the area. hillary clinton has just come back from her third trip. it is far more important that you show up than rhetoric and talk. ont: let's talk to william our independent line. he calls from virginia. caller: how are you this morning? since the gentleman has lived in that area for so long, for someone who lives in the shadow

of the blue ridge mountains and has watched the area grow, the pictures i see of iraq, pakistan, and those areas, can he shed some light on is there a possibility of these people that you see who live so poorly ever becoming more productive and have a better life, or is it just not possible? guest: i had the privilege to be in the blue ridge ones. i'm from montana, so i share that affinity for the mountains. i think one of the top global problems is overpopulation. the number one way to reduce overpopulation is female literacy. pakistan will double in population in the next 27 years to 350 million people, and the

female literacy rate is about 38%. the government says it is 55%, but it is actually much lower. if you compare to bangladesh, also an islamic country, in 1970, the female literacy rate was less than 20%. today, it has tripled. if you look at a population graph, you can see that in bangladesh they have reached an apex. the average woman has 2.8 in live births. four years ago, it was eight or nine births. they have put their money into education. in the last couple years, the country has finally realized it is imperative for their children to go to school. i think population is not something we look at very often, but it is tied in with security and alleviating poverty.

host: and your book the follow- up to "three cups of tea" -- you write in it that "studies from the world bank indicate that just one year of primary school can result in an income bump of 20% for women later in life. an extra year of secondary school may raise their lifetime wages to 25%." infant mortality dropped significantly after a single generation. it also correlates with lower, more sustainable population growth." guest: my whole work is devoted to trying to help girls go to school. there are some issues we talk about and worry about, but i think -- we can build roads,

drop bombs, or put in computers, but if we do not educate the girls, nothing will change in a society. not only socio-economic factors, but when women are educated, they are less likely to condoned a son to get into violence or terrorism. i've seen happen in the taliban, their primary recruiting grounds are illiterate. . .

if we could have some baptists from alabama build a christian community center just a few blocks from the great mosque in mecca. which is a joke, you know that they will not allow that, they do not believe in diversity. only we do. it is a one-way street when it comes to tolerance and diversity. talking about the treatment of women in pakistan, i have heard stories of women living in britain, being defended from honor killings, stories of how their faces have been disfigured with acid if they betray their men or bring dishonor to their family. we talk about peace and mercy

all over the world, but we do not hear about the sydney and anymore, where hundreds of thousands of black christians were butchered by the muslims in nigeria and the reports of women in children being hacked to death by the muslims. in saudi arabia i heard that a judge ordered a man to have his spine severed by a doctor because of what was done by someone else in a crime. >> it is true, there are atrocities towards women. my wife previously volunteered in a battered women's shelter. in new york we have a lot of domestic violence. that is the great beauty of the u.s., that we have separation of

church and state and a country where we can worship as we please. again, going back to the women, they bring life into the world, really it is women who are the promoters of education in society. from my perspective i know a lot of abuse and mistreatment of women in my 17 years and i have never had anyone proselytize to me. in islam there is a word referring to the holy book and anyone in it is to be given respect.

there is tolerance for all people. all people of the book. host: the last caller talked about atrocities all over the world, talked less about what is happening in afghanistan. guest: i grew up in tanzania, to my background is growing up in a third world country. my father always insisted that africans be in charge. often that was a great adversity for westerners. my father gave a speech in which he predicted that all the department would have in the hospital would come from

tanzania. basically he was fired for having the audacity that he believed africans could run the hospital. unfortunately he died in his 40's, but 10 years later we got the annual report in all of the department heads were from tanzania. any type of development, a charity aid, mission aid, any type of aid, what is much more important is to empower people. to empower people means to get people to have local by. we provide the skilled labour and materials but the community must give free labor and materials like a significant amount of community input. what happens is the community

becomes invested in the endeavor. not one of our schools has been shut down by the taliban because of the community support. many several and tragic things have happened in that part of afghanistan, but the most exciting thing that has happened, there must be good news on capitol hill a little bit. 2000 -- in 2000 there were 8000 children going to school in afghanistan, now we are looking at 8 million. there are only 5 million more children that need to get to school to reach 100% literacy. it will take a few generations, but there are some wonderful things happening.

host: greg mortenson is a co- founder of the central asia institute and pennies for peace. his book, "three types of tea," has sold over 40 million copies. david, good morning. caller: this is an interesting discussion that we are having, but the gentleman has said that the administration needs to have hopes for a better tomorrow and that we need to focus on female literacy, but these people have voted in support of sharia law, which means that women do not get educated and that they do not want to work with our government and that they do not want to just to a free world.

guest: in some areas, sharia law is imposed. pakistan has a dual system. there's also a big differentiation between the sharia law that groups like the taliban say is the law, which has nothing to do with islam. the true sharia law, i myself have received two fatwas in pakistan vanishingly from the country. i did not fight them, but i told the community that you could take up to a higher feel and over the course of three years

in 2003 i was banished because i helped to educate corporal's education and it was extended by the sharia courts. they said i was supporting the highest principles of islam, reaffirming that education is the right of all people. basically in the koran and the revelation to ma, the profit is an arabic word meaning to read. the real enemy is ignorance that breeds hatred. that is the way that they control society. there is a fierce desire for kids and girls to go to school. some females have stones thrown

at them and the girls are banished, continuing their studies at home. there is an influence in some areas to keep girls from going to school, but the reality is that things have skyrocketed over the decades. >> we are talking about the floods in pakistan right now, we have a piece saying that john kerry, who visited the areas with at the pakistani president, said that action must be taken to prevent the exploitation of frustration and that people were exploiting that impatience. he said this in a clear reference to the taliban, "one- third of pakistan has been hit by the floods, with water stretching tens of kilometers

from rivers." what is the danger in people using the government frustration over international health? guest: disasters like this, often the militant groups are the first in the area. they are very mobile. it happened in the earthquake. they were providing important aid, but they also did it to displace their own agenda, another reason why it is critical in the beginning of a crisis that the international community respond to that. after the earthquake, most of the aid groups, they left very soon in three to six months. you could manage the militant groups but the problem is that the people will not evade --

will not get pai aid. there has been criticism of the u.s. response, but they were the first in the country to respond. we have already done significant work there in pakistan, leaving the international community. the u.s. military has sent over about two dozen helicopters to help people out. host: hillary clinton is encouraging people to tax donations to flood relief efforts. what is your response when people ask what they can do to help in pakistan? guest: one thing, we worry about things based on fighting terrorism. just fighting terrorism is based in fear.

what hillary clinton is doing, pulling in a swat team -- typing in swat, we have to have patience. we cannot just do things to get a reciprocal response to chase the taliban around. we have to back out in all crisis and not putting conditional agreements on to the tenants of all faith in humanity that we help each other out in severe crises. host: the number that the secretary is asking people to text is 5505.

in a severe crisis, is it the time to be working on schools and things like that, or is there just a basic need to survive? guest: there is a need to survive, but generally very little aid is put into education during a crisis. as i mentioned before, refugee camps are the best place, lots of down time and people sitting around with kids, providing a catalyst with people that cannot go back to their communities, it is very easy to facilitate refugee camps that schools. probably the least costly thing we even do. during floods, obviously we make appeals with food and shelter and medicine, but we keep the primary focus on contagious -- continuing education for those

kids. host: caller from los angeles, good morning. caller: am i on? host: you are, good morning. caller: i wanted to mention a few things in the housing development project. i am a great admirer of mr. martinsons work. i had a few questions, concerning his being able to do so much with these resources, pennies for peace open dialogue between school children in the u.s. and those in pakistan, that way they understand what is going on there with the situation over there for the children. a major thing that even some of the callers today that have misconceptions of what muslims

do, not wanting to teach their daughters and all of these things, and i think that what mr. mortensen has done with these resources in that area, one question that i have, so much aid has gone to education but so many of the public schools are very rundown. i have heard stories where families do not send their girls to school because they think there is no female bathroom. how was it that they're able to build these elaborate mosques that are recruiting grounds for militant groups but not actually support the public? so few able to do so much with so little, where is that money

going and how does that help the chain just? -- change us? >guest: we build schools for roughly 25 to 50 or $60,000. we get free land, sweat equity, free labor from the community. if it was a world bank school it probably cost having million dollars without subcontractors. there's also a tremendous need, not only in primary education, but secondary education. if you want kids in school, the need teachers. i was at a conference to assess the state of education in norway last year.

we spent three days talking about the need to get these children in school. one features the of -- one of the teachers stood up and said they needed directed aid for scholarships, especially women. we were very blessed a few years ago to have a woman passed the bar exam and become the first female attorney out of 4 million people. very focused on land ownership, in the u.s. we are far too busy in the world flood wall in democracy and fighting terrorism. but to not plugged in democracy, you have to build democracy. one of the key ingredients is land ownership.

these are feudal societies. in our own history, like japan, the right of land ownership, when women have legal advocacy, it is much easier for them to have the right of land ownership. one of the main reasons that led to the women's suffrage back in 1920 was not this demonstration, but it had to do with the right of land ownership. the first women to vote in this country were in wyoming and montana. not only educated, but landholders. that is another great thing happening in afghanistan and pakistan. go into the district court and you see that the number of women filing land titles is skyrocketing. a key part of helping to build a more civil society.

host: why do so many americans seem to care so deeply the people that live in a place that is so far away? despite everything that has happened, what is it about the promise of educating children, especially girls? let's go to chattanooga, tennessee. barry? caller: i am really concerned about u.s. aid we gave the government for pakistan where they were diverse -- diverting some of the money to islamic radicals. this form of aid that we are sending, what insurance do we have that it will not wind up in the radical hands when passed around i do not have a problem

with islam, i do not have a problem with following of islam with historical fox in turkey -- historical thinking like the greeks in turkey. host: thank you for your call. guest: the aid going to pakistan, he is exactly right. a lot of the funding going to pakistan, even the military aid, is being diverted over indian fronts where it was initially focus on humanitarian education or health care. the recent bill is an appropriation to send over $7 billion over the next five years. there is a part of the agreement that is exciting where the contingency is built in

where there needs to be reciprocal participation from the province in pakistan. the money is also going to claim nonprofit groups doing good work with much more strict criteria. the other thing that is important, the store with the u.s. tends to throw money at problems and if you look back in history, the marshall plan was a brilliant plan that was set up as a provincial, decentralized process in afghanistan and pakistan. recently we set up a -- decentralize provision within the focus on working at the provincial level where there

will be still explication, probably, of some of the funds. but we still have a long ways to go. host: robert, ohio. caller: very interesting discussion. two quick questions. number one, mr. mortensen, you mentioned how inclined they were to meet these tribal warriors and work out their problems. what about having some kind of vacate -- camp david approach? especially between pakistan and india. i remember under the bush administration, the billions of dollars that we sent to our frontier force, that is what they called them to fight the taliban and al qaeda in the northwest province --

host: sorry, we lost that call. but i think we got the gist of the question. guest: we started giving pakistan billions of dollars to basically fight terrorism. for some time they were diverting it to the front. about two years ago it happened when the the part of the defense to fit over, pushing the initiative on training the frontier for in tribal areas in western pakistan. they're going to double the amount of local 4. the first time this happened was 2004, where they gave contingencies for elections,

sending 70,000 troops into tribal areas. the 70,000 troops that went in, there were garrison to flush out ok that and the taliban. they did not have the train to do these military operations. where was a military operation last year, significantly in area to be much more effective.

i think that if we want to help their military, which could help the people in the frontier for. the problem in afghanistan is that there are 30,000 trained troops and increasing the goal, the police force is even higher where we pay for college. with the soldiers that are eager to learn how to read in the right to give incentives based on learning how to read and write and getting their education. thank you, robert.

caller: thank you so much for your work. through your guidance and direction, may be our government will understand and through understanding we will have love and peace, thank you. guest: thank you. host: martha, republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my question. every book i have seen, it seems like your book comes back three times. going into schools, it seems that you emphasize.

i thought that your reasons were wonderful. the themes seem to be spending time with the people, like he said a few moments ago. i have noticed that in american journalism there have been photos of soldiers sitting with the people in the villages. could you be a rate more your emphasis on how it is influencing our military and our american approach? which might be more your approach. guest: i was a medic in germany. in my initial book, i was fairly critical of the military. i went into the pentagon flights

after 9/11, calling them all laptop for years with no boots on the ground. having watched the military, i think that maybe our government entities, the military really gets it. the military has been on the ground a few times. last year when general mcchrystal was pointed commander, the first thing that he did was ask myself and other people to facilitate meetings in afghanistan. we helped to facilitate about three dozen meetings. it was very informative and it was going on for four years now. great credit going to our military commanders to put a huge emphasis on working with

the people. the recent military operation in canada are, moving through southern afghanistan, called off by general mcchrystal one week before he resigned. it had to do with the fact that the elders said that they could not have a relationship, so do not do this operation right now. i think it is great that general petraeus is in the same line. they're working very hard to work with local leaders and communities to gain support and trust before they do anything. host: reported by laura came in afghanistan, "has another soldier emerged from the home of

a village elder, troops spent time crowd on a plastic tarp on this third floor in afghanistan. the phrase, "3 cups of tea," has entered as the lexicon for shorthand for any leisurely, trust building chats with locals. take off your sunglasses and drink lots of t." collado, a welcome. caller: thank you. the cultural center in new york, comparing it to saudi arabia. is it valid to even bring that up in the conversation? and with the images on

pakistan, my professor is a pakistani national. the images that she shows are usually quite different from what you see on television. she says that many women do not cover their hair and that many upper-class women own their own businesses. guest: thank you. things are very different in different areas. in rural areas, people tend to be more conservative, but it does not mean that there are radical. in urban areas a majority of women might not have their heads covered. we have not gotten far in some categories. and if you talk to these women

in get to know them, they will tell you that their no. 1 desire is not whether or not they have the ability to avail themselves, but more that they have peace, have a job, take care of their kids. most of all they say they want the best for their children. whether or not they wear a veil for a birth of, that is probably number five on the list. what they care about is like any woman in the u.s., food, shelter, your children are ok. host: "the world has been millions of dollars to help pakistan cope with flooding.

guest: i am weary of pledges, but often what happens is less than 50% of the money materializes. people need to come with checkbooks. do not put money, but give money. i would rather see $50 million given today rather than $800 million as historic we pledged in any crisis. ledges rarely materialize. i hate to say it. 22 countries got together to decide how rebuild the country. only 28% of those pledges actually materialize. it is exciting, but need to see the checks. host: our guest, greg mortenson, is the author of "3 cups of

tea," and his new book, "stones into schools." thank you for being with us. next, let's take a look at some of the nation's editorial cartoonists.

>> "washington journal" continues. host:s is the -- stephen kohn is the executive director of the national whistleblower organization. guest: thank you. we are the only organization dedicated to whistle-blowers. we have no cause. we do not use them to leverage a

specific issue, we simply protect whistle-blowers. host: "long revered on capitol hill, but when it comes to protecting congressional employees, congress is dragging its feet on the act that would prevent members of congress from retaliating in against employees, having yet to budge from their long hold in the senate committee even as congress continues to be rock with allegations of corruption. recent cases suggest that aids could be valuable sources to report from behind congressional office doors if they had the gumption to come forward here " guest: a great story and a very good proposal -- come forward." guest: a great story and a very

good proposal. everyone loves a whistle-blower until this focused on you. i have never seen an industry that welcomed it, although they should. the federal government and the white house are the same way. we love them until they are in our backyard, but people need to get over it and accept the bid is critical. host: the coach can -- co- sponsor is senator clear misstep -- clear mccaskill, you have two people's motivated to get it moving but it is not moving forward. host: it is protection for all federal employees. they have lagged behind the private sector, so they have no whistleblower rights. federal employees have amongst the worst riots in the country right now.

-- the worst rights in the country right now. they are reluctant to give rights to the people the blow the whistle on them. the same goes for the white house. i hate to say it, but everyone has been the same. on the campaign trail they support whistle-blowers. when they realize that that might be embarrassing to their agenda, the back of. host: "senator joe lieberman who has jurisdiction over this legislation, while he supports the intent of the bill, the priority in advocating legislation from hawaii would strengthen the current protection laws, covering federal employees but not the legislative branch." guest: bilal before the committee does not strengthen the rights of whistle-blowers --

the law before the committee does not strengthen glut -- the rights of whistle-blowers. the grassley bill would permit access, the lieberman bill would permit may be 5% in practice, where they get court access right now. there is a battle over specific and technicalities. i know that it is technicalities that win or lose a case. that is what is going on right now. will these rights have due process? or will they be on paper? the congressional bill is a pretty good law. i would not mind if they just gave it to all of the federal workers.

host: "representing in multiple cases, such as oklahoma city and linda tret." you can join in the conversation, for republicans, 202-737-0001. for democrats, 202-737-0002. for independents, 202-628-0205. why have you dedicated yourself to helping whistleblowers? guest: they are key to oversight. when i first started there were just examples where they would be useful, but it has come out in numerous studies, most recently the university of chicago, that they would come out and actually document that whistleblowers are the most important source for fraud

detection. they detect more fraud than every inspector general, police department, and compliance office. if you want to find fraud, you must protect whistle-blowers. that is the conclusion of the american association of fraud auditors, price waterhouse coopers, all based on scientifically bvalid studies. the false claims act, every year billions -- not just savings in the theoretical sense, they get billions of dollars from federal contractors who took the money improperly, giving it back to the taxpayer. the long term savings is probably in the trillions, but it actually works. therefore if you are serious about fraud protection and

uncovering misconduct, you have to protect whistle-blowers. that is why these laws are so important. host: one of the proposed laws we are talking about is the congressional whistleblower act, said bill 474. it would protect whistle- blowers "who have tips for information about what happens in the legislative branch." republican caller, seattle. caller: good morning. first, i would like to ask your guest who is the person in congress that sponsored the bill? guest: it has been pushed by senator chuck grassley and senator clear mccaskill. it republican and a democrat, respectively. senator chuck grassley has been one of the various orders of whistle-blowers, regardless of

the target, a democrat or republican. caller: i just think that it is such a great topic and a great strategy. if the federal government had in place people whose post was to do just that, we could streamline the process so much better. i hope that as the effort goes forward, it would show that this is what our country needs. conservatives understand that will meet government, but we do not need the slack that we have with people pointing fingers in government all the time to reduce the fraud, we would not be paying be exorbitant tax rates that we do. people calling in this morning talking about social security,

one out of two people -- i lived in a rv park, to your view of people -- two people are fraudulent and have lived there for 13 years. guest: as health care expand, you will need more whistle- blowers. that is the key for good government and accountability. that is why i am so troubled that the federal government itself will not enact laws protecting federal employees. these federal and police play key regulatory roles. the securities and exchange commission monitors wall street's. food and drugs.

these employees need protection. congress, congressman have to go on the campaign trail all the time. we need whistle-blowers to make sure that these people are honest. another key federal law that has no whistleblower protection of the federal finance laws. you can see some issues there. host: what you think about wikileaks? should the individuals that leaked those documents be protected? guest of the national whistleblowing center exists -- guest: of the national whistleblowing center exists to help those, those that say that they support whistleblower is sometimes used them. they have an agenda. whistle-blowers fit into the agenda.

our organization is different. we want to make sure that the whistleblower is protected and understands their rights. there are legal avenues, even in national security, to blow the whistle. it is very important that if people want to make an exposure, if they want to make change, they do it in a way that helps their credibility, keeps them out of jail, getting them the change they want to see. that is what we are all about. some groups, and i will not name names, but there issue becomes all important. they will sometimes trample over a whistle-blower to make their issued a news. from our view whistleblowing is always nonpartisan. i will represent most the democrat and i will represent

and the tories democratic was a blow against a republican. it means nothing. what counts is holding people accountable and getting the chains that is needed. host: rick, democratic line, good morning. caller: can you talk more about private employees that might be doing business with the federal government? guest: across the claim is the best whistleblowing provision. i call it visionary legislation because when it was enacted we did not have a big government, but it was visionary because the day that will fit perfectly. leaving an insider for any

government contract and to report fraud and pay a financial award. what about the award? it was critical, at the university of chicago they said that the whistle-blowers were disincentives. you get your job back. what was your award? you put your career at risk and you will probably be ruined in your profession, possibly stigmatized. it lets you get a significant monetary reward, getting 13% to 40% of the fraud. you need to file a formal complaint, but you file it under a seal in federal court, no one knows about the case except for you and the judge.

they get the information to investigate the wrongdoing. if the justice department does not do its job, it means in the name of the king. the average american citizen and worker is empowered under the law pursue that wrongdoing, the number one fog detection device in the united states. host: there is a program as part of law that was recently passed, the sec offering big payoffs, if you see something, say something, "offering big cash

rewards to whistle-blowers that report fraud and wall street banks. under the program, anyone that leads to a successful securities and exchange commission action will be able to collect the amount recovered. coast -- guest: we supported this act as it created a monetary incentive. why did they need it? who understands financial fraud? not the investor that keeps losing out. not the sec, they missed it. it is people on the inside. everyone knows it. the studies and reviews, the documents have shown that they get it from the insider. this law has created a financial reward modeled on false claims

similar to one enacted by the irs. i predict that it will work and that the sec will retain thousands of strong, good leads. i think that investors will save billions, if not trillions in the long run. host of these investments are significant. -- host: these investments are significant. the whistleblower can be a company insider or a private investor. is there a danger in incentivizing this monetarily? the moral component that can get lost? guest: not at all. first, studies under false claims showed that those whistle-blowers on motivated like every other, trying to do the right thing. the false claims act in this bill has a gatekeeper process,

going to the government first confidentially. you can do some judicial review, but it is up to the sec. consequently, if your claim has no merit, in the false claims act if you pursue the claim you can get countersued for the attorney fee of the company. there is this incentive on pursuing week or frivolous claims. if you look at the $25 billion recovered under the false claims act, there is no example of someone getting counter-claim to frivolously. host: columbus, ohio, independent line, good morning. caller: good morning. who do you report to when it is

the government that is derelict in their duties? let me give you example, i am a retired freemason. at some point our pension under the act, according to the web site the agency charged with enforcing, i contacted them because the plan administrator gave me the runaround of my attention. three weeks ago i was told that they do not enforce the laws when it involves one person. when you are getting figures like this by the government, whom do you report that to?

guest: there is an office of the inspector general, they are suppose to be the internal watchdog where citizens can go to file complaints. unfortunately, federal employees today left the same type of rights that many private sector employees have. if there management does not care, the office of inspector general is supposed to do that oversight role. some of them are very good. some of them are very bad. many of them are in the middle. your best bet is to contact the inspector general to see if they will help you out. host: "does the act of time whistleblowing can visit their

for punishable"? we can talk about the act before congress right now, can you apply that to what is already on the books? guest: every law has its own definition, but the general rule has been waste and fraud abuse under the law. generally talking about a gross waste of funds. they're looking for something more significant. in terms of someone raising a frivolous claim, there are two ways that that happens. if you go to the inspector general or law-enforcement officer, your allegations will have close to immunity from civil liability. if you go to a inspector general and report a concern, you have almost no risk of being sued by the first in your current -- turning in.

why? they want to encourage people to make for. they know that if you are subject to a counterclaim, it will discourage reform and. if you take over the news media, you are subject of libel laws. even if you blow the whistle to the news media, you could be sued by the person you blow the whistle on. it depends on what your doing, who you are talking to. it is a little more complicated than simply having the right to blow the whistle. every law has its own definition. at the whistleblower center we strongly encourage anyone thinking of blowing the whistle to contact us. we have an attorney of referral process. the biggest mistake i was blowing often done at the very early stages, blowing the whistle in a way that can hold

you out for liability. host: ithaca, new york, welcome. guest: i want to preface this, i know that a lot of people that's got nose, i was a military whistleblower and got pretty much opposed by the system. i want to be more forthcoming. the inspector general system is a complete joke in most of the military. this is a big business. the business for lawyers is the ambulance chaser version of private practice for lawyers. it has value, but for the little guys like me that blew the whistle on a small thing, organizations like is completely blow you off because you are not high profile. mostly they go after high- profile cases. i have a few examples here and there of pals in the ocean that

they have covered, but for the most part, little guys, like your other caller, they get squashed like a bug going through the system because it is not effective. host: what could have been different in your case to make things better for you? caller: one other thing, there is a lot of books written by barbara boxer. i do not know as much about these issues as other people, but she passed a military whistleblower act that has no teeth. going 3 inspector general system in the army, it has no teeth, you are squashed like a bond, you get a letter saying that they have found no evidence of substantiating the allegation. which is really the way that the system is. i know that this will be abrasive, but i am trying to run for u.s. senate. i will let go into that, but basically i am as strong,

putting in as much strong feeling -- i am flustered because this is a sensitive subject, but i feel more strongly than senator grassley about this kind of thing. .

guest: we get about 1000 referrals per year. if there is no law that provides strong protection, you will not get a lawyer. but if there is a law that provides strong protection, you may have a shot. that is the way it is. we are trying as hard as we can to get a national whistle blower protection law in this country and to put teeth behind federal agency laws that do not have any teeth right now. i agree with you completely on the military muscle block. we have got many complaints and our office by soldiers on active duty -- i agree to completely about the military was a low histleblower law. if they shut the door on you,

you are out. that is what we are trying to change as hard as we can. host: stephen kohn is national director of the national whistleblowers center. et's go to eva in athens, georgia. caller: good morning. the most famous case i know of that began with the gentleman who is a chemist, who did the whistle blowing against the tobacco company, they made a movie out of it. it's called "the insiders." it was more focused on what happened inside of cbs. can you tell me what happened to the gentleman who was a the gentleman? long-term, what happened to him? >> guest: you can look him up on the internet. he has a website. i believe he obtained it some part of the settlement and got some settlement of of the

tobacco sonia sotomayor. he fell into the black hole of calcutta. there is still the whistle- blower law covering the tobacco industry -- no whistle blower law covering the tobacco industry. believe it or not, today the food and drug administration inspectors have almost no protection, and as we learn about the bad eggs, there is a whistle-blower law in congress for people who work for the food industry so they can blow the whistle on things like contaminated peter badeanut butr and eggs. it still has not passed. i came here in 1982 as an intern, and they were trying to pass protection for food workers. it still has not passed because the agricultural industry is so

powerful. tobacco is in the same way. i know mr. wygant suffered. i know there is some resolution and he has a website i.d. t is strong strong advocaand he is a advocate. the food industry has been carved out, but we are doing our best, but we need as much public support as possible. host: another caller from georgia. frank joins us. good morning. caller: the people out here have no faith in congress, so so what are they going to do? they do not even abide by their own laws. they don't. guest: and the miracle of whistleblowing is the empowerment of the average

american citizen, because we did you do need in law, but often the press can be helpful, but it can empower the average citizen to make real change. the false claims act is the best example. one of the callers and derided the law, but it is unfair. yes, people can make significant money from that law, but that is what gives it power. that is what the special interests listen to. they listened to the economic impact, and that is the key. but today, there are about 50 federal whistle-blower laws. the key is to try to figure out one that protects you and one that could get you in front of a jury of your peers, so you're not dependent upon a congressman. you can take your case and get it in front of a jury and be heard. that is one of the biggest fights were having up in

congress right now to get federal employees the right to go to a jury. host: one democratic caller in fremont, california. good morning. caller: what a pleasure to speak to you. i worked with the social security administration. back in 1992, 1991 or 1992, our union representative, i invoke the federal protection act of 1989, it was new at the time -- i think it was 1989, to make a long story short, we were empowered under the law to challenge the american federation of government employees union rep, filing multiple claims on behalf of

employees, grievances and the lighke. we got nowhere against our area director who sent a designee and not himself. we were able to use the subpoena power, and finally, we had our hearing. my point, though, is we had a bifurcated hearing. we had to overcome a jurisdictional challenge i was not aware of. when we went to the hearing itself, the judge did not grant us jurisdiction it -- although, before granting a hearing date, he had encouraged the social security administration official to settle this is some doubt because he thought that if that, we werevoke

pretty good advocates. host: let's get a response. guest: you are looking at two pieces of the puzzle. under the whistle-blower protection act, you can obtain at discovery. you can subpoena and documents from the wrong door to build a case. that is what i am talking about -- you can get a subpoena and documents from the wrongdoer to build a case. the weak part of the whistle blower protection act, i am hearing that, also, is that there are many exceptions and the "jurisdictional bars" that lead to a good case being thrown out. those technicalities have to be cleaned up. the third piece of that puzzle is if that administrative process does not work, it is the employee's right to go to court

with a jury of their peers. you saw some of the law working. you saw some of the law with some technicalities beginning to interfere. i hope there was a successful summit. you also see that the real hammer here is the ability to go to court, the ability to get a jury, and that keeps the system honest. host: karen in richmond, virginia. good morning. caller: i have a quick comment and a quick question. i would like to thank steve for separating herself from the wikileaks situation. we think we all agree that the person to lead and gave the documents to the gentleman overseas was not a whistle blower. he is a treasonous person. and should be treated as such.

my question is is that the federal investigation , trying to get protection for whistleblowers, what about those who work for unions, like teachers unions, people like that? what are our protections and what can we do about upper? that? guest: one of the first whistle- blower laws ever decided in 1959 that gave them the right to go to a jury was a person who worked for union who blew the whistle on corruption. and so an employee of a union can have the same types of rights as other employees. sometimes unions are the strongest advocates for workers, sometimes they do a great job for whistleblowers, but like any large institution that has millions of dollars, you need

oversight and accountability, and it does not matter -- at the end of the day, a few support the ideological goal or not, you want to make sure there is honesty. you want to make sure the dues are being used properly. no one is embezzling money. you want to make sure that the system is working for those to whom it is designed. host: catherine, republican. caller: i would like to give kudos to the young woman and young man, they took pictures. guest: acorn, i think. went to an acorn office and blew the whistle. i am really concerned about voter fraud and how we can

protect ourselves from that. from what i see in the administration and some of the people in the congress, why should i trust them to do anything right? that is the truth. guest: i would warn against painting with too broad a brush. there are many people in congress, senator chuck grassley on the republican side, there is congressman valid holland and congressman markey on the democratic side that are dedicated for whistleblowers and accountability. sometimes a their positions to win out and there are some good laws that get passed. there does need to be a whistle blower protection provision in the campaign finance and election laws, period. it is shocking to me that if someone works for the democrat or republican party, and they

hear about campaign contributions that are illegal and blow the whistle, there is no law that protects them. that needs to get fixed. what is needed is a national whistle-blower protection act that gives strong rights to any american that blows the whistle and puts their career and a job on the line. that is who we stand behind it and try to help. there are 50 laws out there, but the fact that there are 50 laws is telling you, why is not there just one good law? host: question on twitter. class action lawsuits, how effective are they? guest: whistle blowers do not use class action lawsuits. it is an individual action. it is one employee or group of employees in one work force. class actions have been very effective in cases such as product liability.

a bad product on the market that might harm thousands of people and they join together. for whistleblowers, we do not use class-action. that is one of the problems, because each whistle blower has to find a lawyer, filed a separate claim. that is costly and difficult. you heard that from one of the callers. that problem will remain. that is one of the reasons we support the rewards provisions. the laws that have monetary rewards, it is easier to get a lawyer if there is a monetary reward. it is easier to get a lawyer if you can get a jury trial. these are fast as we think are critical for effective protection. host: let's go to dublin, virginia. caller: good morning. the laws are very interesting -- i am a refugee from dearborn,

michigan. the ford pinto was a legend at the time. the company made it clear that it was a whistle blower thing, but they told the engineer that blew the whistle, you will never work again. they were right. the guy became a pariah and never worked again. you ended up in this situation where if you blew the whistle on stuff -- i work in safety systems, so i saw all kinds of stuff go by -- we were told if you blew the whistle, you were in trouble. everybody in the company has a 401 k, and their retirement is tied up in the stock value and how the company does. if you blew the whistle, everybody looks at you and says, you are the one they're ruined my retirement. guest: that is 100% correct.

i am representing an incredibly courageous whistle-blower in michigan right now who blew the whistle on bulletproof vests that were being sold. they knew they would not work. another one penetrated a vest and a policeman was permanently disabled. the company's new the products were defective. he has not worked in a bulletproof vest industry since then. yes, that happens. on the other side, that is why we push the claims act. if these products are being sold to u.s. government, then you can get a reward. then at the tables turned. then the whistle blower can file a confidential complaint with the justice department so that company does not even know who they are. if they can show that defective products are being sold to the united states, then they can get a reward. cars beingd motor

sold to the military? did they have defects that were known? that is all the false claims act starts changing the way you look at disclosure and find a way that can hold a company accountable and protect the long-term career of the employee. host: stephen kohn's books include "whistle-blower: a guide to legal protection for corporate employees." thanks for joining us. coming up next, we will discuss a cover story from "time" magazine -- is america islamo- phobic? ♪ [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010]

>> one of the things i regret about political life in washington is that every major figure from the president on down is reading what somebody else in some committee has produced. >> philip terzian wrote speeches for cyrus r. vance, wrote about presidents and architects of power, and tonight, he will share his insights on washington on c-span's "q&a". the c-span networks provide coverage of politics, public

affairs, nonfiction, etc.. it is available on television, on-line, and social media networks. find our content any time it through our video library. bring the resources to your community -- the c-span networks, now available in more than 100 homes. greeted by cable, provided as a public service. it is history week on the "book tv." three books on explorers. "the final jury of henry hudson, searching for the northwest passage in 1610," and the life of samuel de champlain, the founder of quebec. "washington journal" continues. host: our guest, bobby ghosh, is

deputy editor from "time" magazine. he joins us from new york city. the cover story is "is america islamo-phobic?" you start off in wisconsin, talking about the struggle of one community to get a mosque and the communities response. talk about what is happening in wisconsin. guest: this takes place in sheboygan, wisconsin. we started the story there because we wanted to make a that controversies over mosques are not unique to new york. there have been for several months now anti-mosque protests all over the country, in places where the ground itself is not

in question. it is not sacred in one way or another. in sheboygan, wisconsin, it is a small muslim community. a muslim doctor who had been in that community for several years, an internist, wanted to build a mosque on the outskirts of town close to farmland. we see him at a town planning commission meeting. he is not expecting any serious opposition. he owns the land. he has been there for several years. he is well-known and well-liked in the community. to his astonishment, when the subject is opened up to public discussion, a series of people who live in or near that town stand up and say the most appalling things about islam.

and he realizes that his position in the community is not exactly what he thought it was and people question whether is long is the fate of peace. one person says, it is well- known there are 20 terrorist training camps hidden in rural areas, and we do not want our community to become something like that. things like that. and so the doctor is taken aback. he's so stung by these allegations that he is on able to actually moves. that is where our story begins. i am delighted to report the story and as welends well. but in new york and other parts

of the country, it has become clear that muslims themselves are under a greater degree of suspicion and they are being treated with far more hostility than any community has been treated for many years in this country. to answer the question on our cover "is america islamo- phobic?" america as a society is not, but there is a lot of it in this society. it is growing more vicious. the hate speech we are seeing connected to islam is now coming into the mainstream. that is the gist of our story. host: you can join the story with "time" magazine's bobby ghosh. 202-628-0184 for muslim- americans. republicans, 202-737-0001. democrats, 202-737-0002 and

independents, 202-628-0205. time aake a look at the magazine piece by our guest. reports that some of the doctor's 100 a fellow muslims would say he was naive to move forward with the mosque. the majority were albanians who fled to the u.s. to escape persecution after the collapse of yugoslavia. some chose to keep their faith under wraps. they feared their plans to build a mosque would draw too much attention. how did things shake out? -- within the muslim community itself? was there internal debate? guest: sheboygan, wisconsin, was interesting because so much of the discussion about muslims in this country seems to surround people of asian-south asian or middle eastern origin.

here you have a muslim community that is european. there from bosnia and albania. these are people who fled the most repressive, anti-islamic regime in history. people were being killed in the hundreds, in some cases, in the thousands. when they came to this country, they carried with them the trauma of what they suffered. in this particular community, many of these albania muslims have chosen not to state their faith. the fact they are europeans, there is less attention on them. some of them have local businesses and stores. some have chosen not to say they are muslim. there was some discussion in the community about whether a mosque should be built at all, and if it was built, whether these people would attend the moscow or stay away because of their

fear of being exposed -- whether these people would attend the mosq2ue or stay away because of fear of being exposed. they needed to hide their faith. that made the sheboygan example poignant.y pi caller: i think the title insists that americans hate is long. is a stereotypical of the way the bigotry is seen -- the title and says that americans hate islam. it does not seem like the numbers add up. there are plenty of mosques. in our rural community, we tolerate. there is a freedom of religion and nobody cares. guest: i am not sure it is quite

as cut and dried as that. it is largely true that there are more mosques in the u.s. now than there were 30 years ago. more moscow building has taken place in this past decade -- more mosque building taken place in the past decade. it is happening all over the country. we did some polling to get a sense of how americans feel about islam. the numbers are quite alarming. about 1/4 of americans think that american muslims are unpatriotic, that they do not regard themselves as american. another 1/4 are not sure whether american muslims are patriotic or not. that is not a good picture of where the community is right now. i want to make sure i get these numbers right. about 43% of those polled have

an unfavorable view of islam. one of the statistics that has gotten attention in recent days is that 1/3 of the people polled do not think a muslim should stand for president in this country. these are attitudes that were once true of other communities, but many communities in the united states have had to go through this kind of suspicion and prejudiced -- jews, catholics, some suggest that mormons are held in suspicion. as a whole, america is a tolerant society, and many muslims continue to come here because they feel it is more tolerant and europe. -- more tolerant than e urope.

you have many neo-nazis thugs beating muslims up in europe. when we see these attitudes growing, it is important for us to pay attention to that. while we celebrate inclusiveness, we need to guard that inclusiveness. that is the preface of the story, to notice that people oughand-- host: comparing the number of mosques in the u.s. versus europe. looking at the population numbers -- 2.5 million moslems in the u.s. compared to 3.4 million in germany. total population is higher than germany. jay in charleston, south

carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. this is not so much a question. this is more of a statement. i want to verify what this gentleman is saying. i believe there is a lot of accepted it raises some post- 9/11. the main topic is when you look at the three major religions, judaism, christianity, and islam, they should be brothers. they should be holding hands. islam just simply verifies the old and new testaments. when we look at many of the figures in the bible as profits. the only difference in christianity is that they see christ as the son of god and muslims see him as a prophet.

i grew up in a big city. you need to look at people as individuals. host: do americans understand islam? guest: the muslim population is a very small. they are very widely dispersed. that is one of the reasons you have so many mosques. they are distributed across the country. many of the 1900 mosques are a single room in someone's house or in the back of a store. because the population is so small, they do not get noticed as much. that leads to the fact that 2/3 of the people polled don't know any muslims. that means that all the knowledge they have about islam, regrettably in recent years, has

come from up watching the news on television. in that context, is lamslam coms across negatively. community elders need to do much more to spread the word about islam and explain it. ironically, the project in lower manhattan was designed to do that and is having the exact opposite effect. host: let's go to minnesota, where jennifer is calling. caller: good morning. mr. ghosh, i can understand why people are against -- hello? host: go ahead. caller: is because, i know why they do not want it down by ground zero.

only about five blocks away there is already a mosque by ground zero? true?t that those buildings around their were covered with the ashes of people that died in those buildings. people they never found, and their ashes went everywhere around ground zero. host: let's make a distinction. it was "time" magazine. he is not advocating for the mosque in the new york city. guest: the mosque you are talking about is 10 blocks away from ground zero. there are more worshipers then they can deal with. the same imam is one of the people behind this mosque,

because he needs some place to expand. not everyone who opposes that mosque is an islamo-phobe. and many have a genuine objections. many feel sympathy towards the families. they believe it would amount to an insult. that area being sacred is undermined that there are strip clubs within two blocks of ground zero. it is lower manhattan. there is a mcdonald's, toerhothr stores of various kinds. there are many other things that

feel far from sacred. having a religious center that is built for dialogue between all kinds of fayette, which is the purpose of the promoters behind the project -- a dialogue between all kinds of faith -- where at the moment there is not. if it is ok for there to be strip clubs, it seems odd to me to oppose an inter-faith center. host: mohammed is calling from minneapolis. caller: i am iranian and raised as a muslim. since the failed times square

bombing, a young man integrated into american society who attempted to kill people in times square, it is made me embarrassed about my background, my religion and my name. i have lived in united states in 3for 32 years. guest: i am sorry to hear that, mohammed. you are far from alone. i was in dearborn, michigan, which has a quite strong concentration of muslims from all over the world. there is a certain amount of this quiet there -- disqueiet there about whether this mosque increases the hostility they encounter every day.

then you have the people who say that is important for it to be built, not just on principle, but also because, after all this uproar, if that center is allowed to be billed and if it functions in a matter that it is intended, then they can do more good than harm, because it will reach out to all the communities and encourage a discussion on is role in society and america's role, and that discussion will lead to greater understanding. hopefully people such as yourself will not feel quite so constrained to introduce yourself. host: "the new york times" has a

profile of the imam. after 9/11, he denounced terrorism and said killing civilians are violated islams. he wrote a book -- "what's right with islam is right with islam." do we know who this man is, who this community is? guest: we nkoknow him very werel. ll. he has been an active member of the inter-fatiith community. he is well known and within the american muslim community as a conciliatory figure. he is not only moderate, but

also takes a fairly global view about islam and is very good at being able to criticize where criticism is merited. a lot has been made in recent days of a radio interview, and "the new york times" references this, where he was asked to criticize hamas, and his answer was seen as being equivocating. in that interview, he said he is a supporter of israel. that is a very, very hard position for a leader in the muslim community to take. but the fact he was able to do that, tells you a great deal about him. host: the problem is that a few muslims have been living peaceably in society for years and suddenly do something hostile. how do we know which are the

good ones and which are terrorists in waiting? guest: that is a question for law enforcement. i spent last year covering the national security beat, and i am reassured that law enforcement is doing a far better job of that than most of us know. it is a question for the community to deal with, also. there is a famous case took place where five young men from the washington, d.c. and virginia area traveled to pakistan apparently to try and get training and join the holy war. the most interesting aspect for me was that they were turned in by their own families. it was their own families that brought this to the attention of the fbi. then the authorities were able to pick them up in pakistan. i believe their case is being heard in the courts.

there is evidence that the community has been addressing extremism in its midst. there are many imams who are working at a very hard to speak with young people and to deal with frustration and resentment they feel. need to be more? yes. but it is not like it is not happening at all. imi "new yorker", and i do not feel particularly at risk because of tyhe fact there is a large number of muslim-americans who live in enwnew york.

hi, richard. caller: i think the feeling of the public has to do with the islam religion itself. they seem very intolerant and have a very radical, hostile element in the religion. i do not know if that is true, but after 9/11, very few islamic clerics came forward to denounce the terrace. let's take what is going on in europe. london, england, had over 100 honor killings in the city itself that law enforcement refused to investigate because they were afraid they would inflame the islamic community. guest: let me correct you on a couple of things, richard. it is not true that after 9/11

the leaders of the communities did not criticize. that is far from true. tens of thousands of islamic preachers all over the world came out and unequivocably condemned this. if you feel they have not done enough to condemn extremism or terrorism in all its forms, then perhaps, part of that blame lies with the media. perhaps we have failed in bringing that adequately to our attention. i've spent many years in the middle east. of course, i have been covering the community here. it is not sure the community has not criticized 9/11 or any other act of terrorism. the imam in new york has done this. tens of thousands of liters of the community over the world - have-- -- tens of

thousands of liters in the community around the world have condemned thus. host: let's get a dial in tallahassee -- donald in tallahassee, florida. caller: this is more of a comment, not a quote. but americans, we do fear other religions, but i want you to be sincere with yourself today. will you go to your church today -- when you go to your church today, and you hear your pastor who will teach you, tell you about the rapture is true -- which it's not -- who will tell you about easter egg,

which is nt's not. we don't fear this? we should fear a man who teach us one verse a week, and they beg for money. from let's go to a survey the pure research center. research center.pew more than a year-and-a-half into his presidency, the public says they do not know what religion president obama follows. you can see the numbers on your screen. this survey out just this month. 34% believe he is kristin. 18% believe muslim. 43 perce% do not know.

-- 45% believe he is christian. guest: we did a survey last week while the anti-mosque fervor reached fever pitch. something like 24% of the people we polled said they thought the president obama was muslim. i cannot talk to why that is the case. it has the white house a very alarmed. they felt it necessary to issue a statement saying that the president was christian. i am not sure that necessarily helps in this particular debate about american attitudes towards islam, because it

gives the impression that the white house feels that the perception that the president being muslim is a bad thing. it is hard to understand why two reverend wright how people could come to that conclusions that president obama is muslim. it is only tangentially germain to the problem. there is probably a place where islamophobicarbor as lo sentiments and those who believe obama is a muslim overlap, but you need more information. host: as daniel patrick moynihan

said, everybody is entitled to his own opinion. but not his own facts. gary is calling. raller: jsust to answer you question, sir, is that the reason the people believe he is not a christian is because he is disrespectful -- he plays golf on sundays. i hope this clarifies. guest: thank you for your opinion. that is an interesting insight and something that -- i am new to this country. i am learning how people think. host: brooklyn, new york. good morning. caller: i want to make a few

comments. one of the things fueling is the aftereffect of 9/11. i think part of it is the ignorance -- americans' ignorance of islam and not knowing some of the basis tenanents. i read an article in the thursday edition of the "daily news" that showed that the choice of the site was made by the real a state company engaged by the administration of the mosque.

this selected a person to bird dog, look for sites. that was how the site was selected in new york. guest: that was an interesting story. quite ironic and amusing and itself. i worry that those opposed to the mosque, that that is being lost. people do not care who first found the spot and why is chosen. people are much more concerned about the people behind it. host: maureen joins us on the democratic colors line in the new hampshire. good morning. caller: freedom of religion is basic, but with everything the world is going through, and our country is a very humanitarian,

but just the amount of money they're going to spend on this. it is a place of worship. is that money what's needed? you can worship, like he has had, in their homes. you can worship anywhere. that amount of money right now, i think it's -- i mean, it could be used so many places. guest: that is an interesting point. being a new yorker, in downtown million is what00 it takes. building here is very expensive. could they have spent the money to other places? but that could be said of any place of worship anywhere in the world. why spend money on building large monuments to the faith

when you can spend that money among the faithful and improve their lives? i do not hold any beef with them. i am judging by what the promoters have said. their objective is to create a place where people of all faiths can, and understand each other and develop an understanding of each others' beliefs and concerns about their fate and the fate of others. -- the faith and the faith of others. that is a noble idea. judging by the upheaval taking place over the last few years, if anything, it is an argument for such a center. the one thing we have learned from all the angry rhetoric on all sides in this discussion is that we need a place where we can go and understand each other better. whether that takes place in the physical building in downtown new york or in some other context, i do not know, but i

guess the question is -- why not in downtown new york? why not in a building built for that purpose? i do not think we should get too bogged down with the numbers, the amount of money spent. i think the purpose of the building is more important than .he finances appeared host >> our enemies respect no religious freedom. al qaeda's cause is not islam. it is a gross distortion of islam. these are not religious leaders. they are terrorist who murdered innocent men, women, and children. al qaeda has killed more muslims than people of any other religion. that includes innocent muslims killed on 9/11. host: that is president obama

talking about the enemies of the united states respecting no religious freedom. let's go to carl in erie, pennsylvania. good morning occurred caller. caller: good morning. the catholics of the pope was their leader -- have the pope as their leader. the muslims turn to saudi arabia. in saudi arabia, women are treated as things not human beings. if someone is killed and is yred, do they go to paradise with virgins. guest: it is true that people

turn in the direction of mecca to pray, but that does not mean there is one figure or one mosque in saudi arabia the commands of the equal respect of all muslims. there is no such figure. as to the condition of women in many muslim countries, it is undeniable that in some muslim countries, women are treated poorly. i would argue that is true in many countries, despite their faith, in the developing world. it is a function of economics, education and other development indices. yes, it is true that women in islam did a lot of attention in this country because, in some societies, they are required to be veiled, they are not allowed to drive. just for perspective, keep in mind, there have been at least three women heads of government in the muslim world.

there is benazir bhutto in pakistan, -- in turkey, forgive me, but the third one -- the leader of indonesia, the largest muslim country in the world. and america has not yet had a female head of state. there are various ways of looking at these things. in any case, none of that should affect our view of muslims in america. american muslims should be treated the way all americans are treated, and they should have the same rights. what goes on in saudi arabia, should not have a direct effect on their lives in this country . host: sahid from columbus, ohio.

caller: hostcould morning. for the past few years, i have listened to how is llam has come up and people want to believe that it is new to this country when, in fact, over the last 60 years, there has been a muslim population. the black muslims such as the nation of islam. caller: host host: we only have a few moments for a response. guest: it is true that african american muslims and do not get the same amount of attention. it is one of the most diverse and muslim communities in the world. there are muslims here from

every country in the world. in many ways, they feel much freer here than they feel in many places in europe and other parts of the world. that is something to be celebrated. that is not something to be regarded with hostility. needs to be communicated better. host: anna, democrats line in ohio. caller: i was glad they showed the president talking about al qaeda and terrorists. why wouldn't people of pakistan, afghanistan, the rock, on that same standard consider the u.s. terrorists in regards to the innocent people killed in pakistan, afghanistan by drones? our media does not even talk about how many innocent people have died in iraq or been injured or displaced. guest: