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>> the state department has scheduled a special -- special briefing regarding the flooding taking place in pakistan. we will have that live for you at approximately 1:00. live all day on c-span 2, the coast guard and bureau of ocean management are looking into the deep water rise in oil spill. today's focus is the design of the well and special management safety systems. watch that live all day on our

companion network, c-span 2. a reminder that we have an extensive archive of information regarding the historic oil spill of 2010. watch dozens of briefings from washington and from the field, c-span -- c-span.org/oil spill. >> the c-span networks, we provide coverage of public affairs, nonfiction books, and american history. it is all available on television, radio, online, and social media sites. find the content and the time in our c-span media library, bringing our resources to your community. the c-span network, now available in 100 million homes, provided as a public service, created by cable. >> general william caldwell is

the trainer -- commander of the nato training mission, briefing reporters today about the progress of that mission, including emphasis on attrition rates within forces. he spoke with reporters at the pentagon the of the deal leaked -- via video link. this is about one hour. >> we have you loud and clear, so we will get started. i would like to welcome back to the pentagon briefing room, lieutenant-general william caldwell, the commanding general of the native airtran -- training mission in afghanistan and the transition in afghanistan. the general assumed his duties in november of last year and he joins us from the headquarters in kabul to provide an update on

training the afghan national security forces. he will make some opening comments. they are a bit lengthy but they are very detailed, we will try to get to a copy of those comments. he also has a couple of slides that you have paper copies of that will be projected on the screen. with that, general, we will let you get started. >> all right. good morning, everyone, first of all, from afghanistan. i am pleased to have this opportunity to provide you with this update on the afghan national security force. i realize that this is the first time i have been able to speak with you since the activation of the training mission nine months ago. nine months and two days. to give you a brief idea of where we were, where we are, and

where we are going to go, we are a multinational organization that employs trainers and advisers to develop the ministry of interior and defense. we also do police, army, air force, logistics systems, medical systems, and all of the institutions that train and educate them all. the mission is critical for transition of security to the afghan government. in many ways, training the afghan national security force is transitional. efforts to build and strengthen that force are to make it self- reliant with the ability to generate and sustain a force that serves and for tax the people of afghanistan. to understand the measure progress we have made, you must stop and look back. from 2002 through 2009, the

development of the afghan security force was hampered by a lack of resources bleeding to understandably slow and uncoordinated progress. the focus was on getting as many soldiers in place, doing operations as fast as possible. little time was dedicated to developing the afghan national security force. key inputs that address the professionalism and quality of the force, like leader development, loss from attrition, and literacy of soldiers and police, were overlooked. looking at the first slide on historical annual growth of the ansf, you can see on this chart even in quantities their forces were inconsistent. from 2002 through 2009, the average growth, as you look to

the right, there were about 27,000. 15,000 personnel in the afghan [no audio] national army and the a and p. today this trend has been reversed. in the past nine months alone, the growth in the army and the police has more than double the average of previous years, with numbers -- numbers right now at 58,000. the growth of the afghan national security force in the first half of 2010 is larger than any other year in its history. the growth has been so dramatic, they have both exceeded their 2010 growth goals three months ahead of schedule. this turnaround can be attributed to a dramatically

changed approach to training that we have taken with the afghan national security force, as well as a new sense of urgency within the ministry of defense and interior. the afghan leadership has taken complete ownership to increase recruiting, reduce attrition, and improve retention over the last nine months. including the creation of recruiting demands to oversee efforts across afghanistan to better tailor recruitment to the needs of the afghan people. while the afghan security force has made measure progress in the past year, we must also confront reality, significant challenges remain. with a sustained commitment from the international community and the time to provide results, they are not insurmountable. every day we witness the remarkable and resilience character of the afghan people,

so many earnestly and selflessly laboring to make a better future for their families and their nations. we are committed to continuing our work, alongside afghan partners, tackling these tough issues. the greatest challenge to building a self sustaining afghan national security force is professionalism within the ranks. it is the key ingredient to enduring force that can preserve and protect its people. the development, literacy, and addressing losses through attrition. the first and most important element to professionalism is leader development. it is the enduring foundation that is so essential. the efforts to create professional officers, and commissioned officers in the

army, focused on quality training and developing experience, as well as providing an appropriate education, dedicating service and loyalty. only when leaders embrace a culture of service to others will the afghan national security force truly be professional. the second element is the literacy of soldiers and policemen. if we want to develop a professional force, that must be taken on. when you consider the average literacy rate for an entry-level soldier in afghanistan is 14% across the force, literacy becomes a major challenge in training, education, and even performance of basic skills required by professional forces. this skill addresses three more

issues to professionalism. first, literacy provides the ability to enforce accountability. if a soldier cannot read, how can he know what equipment he is supposed to have and maintain? if a police man does not know his number is, how can you read the serial number on his own weapon? this will provide oversight for the force, from equipment and personnel regulations to training. the second challenge that literacy addresses is developing branch competency through professional military education, providing soldiers and policemen the ability to attend these schools and learn enabling skills like logistics', maintenance, communications, skills that require a professional force to sustain themselves within the field and throughout their career. these skills must also being

reined in junior and midbrain officers as well as leaders that are the backbone of this force that will one day lead this army and police force. finally, literacy combat corruption within the afghan national forces. preventing bad actors from preying on the illiterate. once the force is literate, standards can be published and everyone can be held accountable up the chain of command, as well as down. literacy allows soldiers and policemen to prevent theft of their pay. once they are able to read how much they are owed and how much they have received, will they be able to prevent the theft of their own pay. we have supported the professional station of the afghan national security force, educating many students. this will take time and it is a sustained effort, if we are to

educate entire generation of afghans to the level necessary for creating a professional force with leaders that allows for professional a station to occur that is essential for their development. the endemic enemy of professionalism are losses from attrition. including desertion, death, and low retention. they pose the greatest threat to quantity and quality of the afghan national security force. for example, based on current attrition rates, growing the afghan national security force, the additional 56,000 needed to meet the goal of 305,000, we will need to recruit and train 141,000 soldiers and belief. again, just to grow that did the 6000 baba birds, we will have to

recruit 141,000 police and soldiers. to put this into context, to meet that goal we will need to do all this over the next 15 months. over twice the size of the army that currently exists today. a challenge that must be met with concerted action from the afghan national ministry, security forces, nato, and isaf. each of these organizations has responsibility for attrition and retention. de developing an enduring professional security force will take time. each aspect, from facilities to leaders, the systems and elements that provide the continuity and endurance to

build, develop, and sustain leaders and soldiers. these are things that there are no shortcuts for. facilities must be built and expanded to increase the quality of training. leaders must have the education, training, and experience with their duties. institutions must be developed and staff must be trained to perform their functions. enablers, communications people, intelligence, these things must be created to promote ministry field forces. from the minister of the interior defense down to the police officer and soldier, they need to be able to seamlessly fulfil their function, each supporting each other. this requires a com approach to building, developing, and transitioning to the afghan national security

force. most of all, it takes time. we must work to reinvest progress in our efforts to use time as widely as are other resources. we have made significant progress this year in laying the foundation to professionalize the afghan national security force. we are realistic about the challenges, but we are also optimistic about what we can do together with our afghan partners to begin the process of transition as the afghan national security force takes the lead to protect and serve their people. i will be glad to take whatever questions you might have. >> when is your best estimate of when afghan troops can take over any portion of the country by the end of this year? is that going happen?

if not, why? >> well, again, transition is a process that begins and takes place for a long time. let's take a sergeant major academy that we have running right now. currently it is being led mostly by coalition forces, but with afghan and structures -- the instructors day are taking a irresponsibility for it. with the classroom last month, the goal is that by the time they graduate in december, the next class will have lead and we as a coalition of force will step back into an over watch as they take the lead for that force. it does not happen in some bay area's at one time, -- some big

areas at one time, we will see as many big in different areas. asking what the time line will be? it is when we can get the afghans in their that will be the featured instructor is that we put through the training program to go through the validation of who they are, observing them as they take on that responsibility, allowing us a transition that aspect. it will take time, but we are encouraged by the early signs that we are seeing. >> i understand that it will take time and that it is a process, but certainly there must be some prediction as to when afghan soldiers will be in the lead in certain portions of the country, when will the afghans start to take the lead in certain parts of the country?

>> well, yes, again what i would tell you, i think that we have not even finished building the afghan national army, police force, or the air force. all of the key enablers, as we call them in the military, logistics', maintenance, transportation, intelligence, none of them have been brought on line and connected to the current force. the focus was that this is a infantry centric force. because even without the enablers that support them, they still require it from coalition forces. over the next 15 months we are balanced by bringing on those other capabilities.

it is not just about when they can protect their area. in small isolated pockets, taking the lead without coalition is possible, but to say that -- that they could do much more by the end of that -- by the end of next year is stretching it. >> based on the number of afghans leaving service, including the trouble with going home and returning for duty. >> i am sorry, i had difficulty hearing the question.

could the question please be repeated? >> on the number of afghan soldiers deserting after training ordering service, as well as coming from the city, going back home and having problems, then having problems returning to rejoin duty. >> if i understand the question, those soldiers we have recruited from around cobble that have been sent elsewhere to serve, how do they get back to see their families? is that the correct question? >> the first part of the question is about the desertion numbers of afghan soldiers, both during service and the during training. the second part of a question had to do with having soldiers serving at distances, taking

leave and returning to their unit. >> the endemic enemy of professionalizing this force is attrition. desertion is a part of that factor. desertion, those killed and wounded to where they can no longer perform, as well as those that elect not to continue serving. it is a concern to us. leave it is a great example. what we just instituted, the ability for the afghan national army and the police to request a schedule for units, so that if they want to go to the self, which is what we have been running recently, they can

charter an airplane that will go down and pick up soldiers and bring them back. we have a designated transition location at the airfield where we receive them and let them go out on leave, and when they leave is up, we will get another charter airplane and return them back to their location. that had not been in effect. we are hoping that this will enable us to get some of these issues that we have seen in the past where soldiers have wanted to go home and had a challenge getting there and back. >> how does your time line of october of next year match up with the president's wish to start reducing american forces

by july? what steps have you taken to improve security vetting of the troops? >> first of all, the growth development plan in place is based on a couple of factors that we developed, based on the through capacity. based on november of last year, we have doubled or tripled capacity in the training of army and police forces. that was a major step forward that has enabled us to move this process a bit faster. additionally the influx of trainers was critical. we had a severe shortage of trainers last november that has

increased free-for-all -- threefold or fourfold since that time. based on the current growth plans of training facilities, with trainers that we have on hand and those that were pledged over the next six to nine months, the projection is that by october of 2011, we can make those growth objectives. the president of the united states has talked about this, having the ability to make this decision by july of 2011. general petraeus has been cleared, it is the beginning of a process. as stated earlier, we are already transitioning in small segments within the institutional base already. we will keep moving forward as we see them demonstrate the institutional side, taking those

resources and committing them to reinvesting in other training aspects of what we are doing and side of the country. we are aware of the date, it is the start of the process based on conditions on the ground. we continue to say that by the end of october, 2011, we can make current growth objectives with afghan counterparts as we move forward. >> the second question? of the security question? >> again and, if i forgot the question, but it is how do we screen them before they come in? >> your security methods, how have they improved or changed in any way following incidents where afghan soldiers have turned their guns on allied

forces? >> one of the things that we do with every new recruit, both in the police van the army, they go through a complete by a major test. it includes the i redness can, fingerprints, digital photographs of all placed in a data base. they need to come with two letters of recommendation of testing to their good standing of supporting the government and people of afghanistan. all of that is placed into a database. that is how they are initially screened against anything else that might already be in the database that currently exists with several hundred thousand in it. the next thing that we do is what gillette them carefully in place as of training, the understanding that someone might always tried to involve trade

into the air force. afghan instructors are far better than the coalition, and once they get into the field forces, that is something that they pay attention to also. we are in a war is no. looking around, being aware of your surroundings and situation, as recently as three weeks ago we took recruits from our police training sites out west, turning out to be a pakistan taliban infiltrator, and when they were finally finished with the investigation been turned over to the authorities tell of people did stay vigilant. we are the -- we are aware of the intent of people to do that infiltration. >> general, can you talk about

where, if there is such a high attrition rate, where are these soldiers disappearing to? are any of them joining the adversaries? the taliban or other militant groups? does that also indicate that the compensation is still not where it needs to be to be able to retain the soldiers that you need? can you please be specific about how much of a shortage that you still have in terms of trainers and mentors? >> the first thing i would say, give we knew where they have gone to, since the afghan authorities have been bringing them back in under military control and police control, we do not know where they go to college to be completely honest.

it is very difficult to track over here. as recently as this past week the president of afghanistan has stated that he thinks a lot of them are being hired by private security companies and other elements. take a young soldier that has gone through 17 weeks of intense military training, he may have developed skills sets and literacy training, a far better person than the day that he entered. the president of afghanistan may be very accurate and i suspect he might have much better information than we do about where they go to. something we have been working on for several months, getting the biometric records of everyone in sight of these security companies, we could work magic is to see if there was something like that going on.

trainers, as far as they go, currently today we have the requisite number to accomplish the mission. the secretary of defense of the united states gave us an additional battalion of soldiers there was another six to 150 soldiers in this training mission. requirements are graduating and increasing over time. was there are more branch goals, there are schools for logistics and medical infiltration, those kinds of things that are just guarding the, online. that will require more specialized trainers to identify those numbers. there is a conference at the end of next month to specifically discuss this in greater detail, looking for nations to provide for people starting at the

january timeframe of next year well into 2011, which will be really critical for us. >> general, i would like to ask you about the local village defense force. training for those forces as they expand, will it remain solely done by special operations forces? also, what is the growth estimate? how will those forces interact with existing national security force command structures with existing police and army? o>> to be clear, you are talking about the afghan local police? the decree signed by president karzai over the last week or so?

>> i keep hearing it described in different ways. >> ok, the definitive name is the afghan local police. that will be the name, allowed for 10,000 to be recruited, meaning that there could be more later. what we know is that there is not going to be a big change in the face of security on the national level, but they could have a tremendous local event with a potential to change the security forces already operating out there in different areas around the country. right now the ministry of the interior is working procedural guidelines that will stipulate how the force operates.

it will be paid for by the afghan government. there will be a deputy district police chief established in each district where these things will be designated to be formed, providing the oversight management direction to that force, receiving communications gear, purely defensive in nature without offensive capabilities, not operating outside of that area. so that he has insurance that the government and ministry of interior has absolute control over the formation of these forces. the process where these would initially go in and operate,

they would sit in any force as they are under control of the afghan government, specifically to the heavy the police chiefs in each district, they will be all in one team. >> will that be a special operations mission? >> right now we will not be involved in the training that those forces received. the ministry of interior is still working for final procedures, but the current plan calls for that to be handled by the special operations forces in that localized group.

are you getting it -- >> are you getting a handle on the police and military drug abuse? it has been quite a big problem. >> interesting, i could talk about attrition rates and drug use for you. i will start with drug use. there is a certain amount of drug use between january of this year until the past month, where we've conducted a personal asset inventory of all of the police in this country, doing biometric data collection on every person in the force. 97% of the forest is done and

was a surprise, the actual drug use on average was about 9%. certain areas were much higher, others were much lower, the average across the time that we were doing this was about 100,000, 9% for drug use. when the minister was still in he set up a few drug rehabilitation but they need to deal with this issue. building a professional force, as we keep saying, drug use is something that cannot be tolerated more than the

modification, soldiers and policemen that may have thought that joint use was permissible from wherever they came from before, but any professional force is simply not acceptable. as far as attrition rates, a generally in the army today. afghan national police, about 16%. you have three major sub components. the afghan national police, union police, and border police. the afghan national police as an

unacceptable attrition rates. last month it was that 47% with counterparts growing in a professional force, they would have to reduce the attrition we had a living raid of $165 and we added crowe pay in, which had not been there for areas that

were considered hazardous. what you would pay also of those of. if you are just in the afghan national police, is only $50. and since soccer, special ops guy is have coalition partners

working with them each day. the last part is predictability, establishing a cyclical system for them, for the national police, where there is a time. with a train and go out for 12 weeks to 15 weeks at a time, after a guarantee to take some leave and down time after going to a training base. all of this ties back to helping them develop a professional force that is self sustaining, critical to start building in leadership. to do that we cannot have that kind of attrition. the key components for developing leaders is the experience base that you get to have after having served in the army. we are finding that we are challenged with leader

development every time attrition rates rise like that. >> what is the current level of national police? does that mean that half of the people you are training are dropping out? how will you beach that 2011 figure when you have these incredible attrition rates? >> you hit on one of the biggest challenges we have been dealing with since december period from december through march we tripled the through capacity of how many police we could train 1200 are graduating on a monthly average now. we did not have that before. the input has been increased dramatically.

we have about 5700 in the force right now. by to over 31st, 2011, the force is scheduled to grow to 18,500. that is our most significant challenge of all of the growth that the afghan security force needs to see happen over the next 15 months. making sure that we established a predictability for them that is now just starting to come online. we think that having watched our commando units, we have nine commando units with low attrition rates. they have a predictable schedule, even though they are deployed around the country, they have the same comparable pay.

they have been harboring the special ops forces with a good predictable schedule. bringing that online, we would expect to see that that level of attrition might start to drop off from where it is the day. yet we are watching it closely, we realize that we have got to get to 18,000. and the police down there, once again the comments about what they're doing, they want more of them as they are less corruptible , more there to protect and serve the people. of course, they're the most well-trained force that we have.

they go through about four months of training, whereas in late -- regular policemen goes through, not to profit and be served, a key element. the recruits that we get out are well motivated and ready to go. thinking that we will take care of that attrition. >> if you could go back to literacy rates? last december ewan's the tape -- instituted a new literally -- literacy class is. what is the change at each

level? how has it improved? where do things stand today? >> well, what i would tell you is that we have come to realize that if you had at me in november, it would have seen important. but i say look, we are here to train soldiers and policemen. if we are going to professionalize. there was no one in a mandatory literacy program previously done, today we have 20,000, growing to 50,000 by this december. by may and june of 2011 there will continue as the the different recruits and a full-

time literacy programs. , bringing him off to a third grade level. we know that literacy enables professionals as asian. if you bring literacy of line and you give them the ability to be able to just read numbers, write their names, doing basic reading, you start to accomplish accountability. which is brilliant. how can they account for their weapon when they cannot read this -- serial number it doesn't mean that they're not smart or that they have no street cements -- street sense, but they can look at a series of numbers on a map and know how to

read it. >> what have we done? making sure that counter ability strategy raises to a certain level if we are told that we are suppose that four shirts, three pairs of pants, they can read that and look at the equipment instead of being reliant on someone else to do that for them? we do not want them to establish dependency. stammering the base competency. that requires a literate person.

for those with a certain degree of literacy, they can do their job and do it independently without looking at coalition forces. third, it eliminates corruption. when i arrive last year, one of the big pushes was electronic fund transfer. there was systemic corruption occurring within the country with money being passed from each individual soldier and patrolman. we looked to eliminate that systemic corruption. today about 87% as electronic fund transfer in place and functioning. many of us, including myself,

were feeling pretty good about what we had been able to keep pushing and make happen. we came to find out that that was great, but that all that we did was set off another level of reflection because 87% of these young men cannot even read. when they go to get their money from a machine that we have been putting in the different military installations, they cannot understand the numbers. last week the pay team reported that they had 100 soldiers that they were checking on and 90% of them reported not being paid. we have these different teams running around the country, what they found out was that these soldiers had been paid, the

money was in their account, but they had no ability to look at a bank statement or read the atm machine. if they had had basic literacy training, they would have known that and had been more assured that the afghan government was taking care of them. if we are going to set up a force that can be self-reliant and sets the conditions for the coalition forces can reduce their presence, we are going to have to take on and do some basic levels of literacy with in this country. >> general, we are about 50 minutes in, i do not want to impinge on your time. >> i could take another five

minutes, i think. >> general, i wanted to go back to these attrition numbers. you said that from march to march it was 15% of the police, but then you use numbers of 40% and 70%. can you clarify the time frame? >> i apologize if i confused you. the attrition numbers that i throughout were forkball,. -- were for 12 months. again, because there are only 5700 people, when you look at a police force of 115,000, it does not really reflect well if you

just look at the overall average. the numbers of was talking about were four specific months. when i used it to figure 70% of attrition, i was taking the monthly attrition and making it and you will and thinking about what the annual attrition rate would have been. saying that the attrition rate was than fairly high, down 47% in the next month. i did not want that to be hidden by the overall figures, if that helps. >> right now, the attrition rate for afghan security forces?

>> the current attrition forces -- attrition rate for the afghan police today? taking the aggregate, we would say that the monthly attrition is about 1.2%. when you multiplied out by 12, you get the annualized figure, which is about 14% or so. i go back to the fact that we watch it very closely. we call it our endemic enemy, professionalizing this force. you lose a lot of good leaders if they do not stay in, as they do not get the experience. >> the army, was that the 23% that you were talking about? >> the attrition rate for the

army? >> on an annualized basis it was about 23% of the last month, that is what the attrition factor was for the army. monthly attrition numbers, that is just under 2%. >> second to last. >> i had a question for you, how much does it cost to train these soldiers and policemen, and how has the cost changed since you have added literacy to the program? >> i have never been asked that

question, how much it costs. i have not ever attempted to stop and figure it out, there would be all sorts of costs associated with it. we have kind of, i guess we could try to figure out what it might be, but in this assure. i know what we generally spend every month as an organization, doing everything from building facilities to military training aspects to equipping the force. but i do not know, specifically , and i apologize that i do not have that for you. we will never be able to set the conditions for transition without it, which is so

critical. moving forward, last november we realize that quantity was important. it was not something that we could do without. the quality for been brought in is imperative, which is why we brought on literacy training. it is actually fairly inexpensive, hiring all afghan instructors to do the literacy training. we have 250 that we have hired at this point and that number will increase to well over a thousand as we move the program forward. making a decent pay for those involved in the education of the security force. >> hearing you correctly, sells

like it is being paid for by the united states. is there a question on the parts of others that we are building up an army that the afghan government will not be able to pay for itself? >> clearly, right now the entire gross national domestic product is $10 billion each year in afghanistan. looking at their expendable capability in programs, different things for the people, obviously it is much less. the current security force will require assistance from the international community for many years after the transition has been complete. there are those that will tell you that these mineral deposits are essential and could change the entire environment overnight. what i do know as an american

officer is that the u.s. has made an enduring commitment to be supportive of and establish a relationship with the government and people of afghanistan. we call it a strategic partnership. we are committed, to some degree, to help them in sustaining the force in the future. without meeting the assistance. >> that was the final final -- final five minutes. closing remarks, general? . .

mnt-a.com, there has nations can look there, too. it is not pass for a protective or anything else.

-- password protected or anything else. why we're doing this, what we're doing is readily available to people. i do want to tell you thank you for giving me the opportunity today. the afghan national security force really has seen some measure process over the last nine months that i have been here. i have seen a commitment that they will ensure the recruiting numbers are there. they are engaged in this whole effort and they want to see this succeed. they want to see a professional force. they know that it takes time to bring this completely online. we continue to look forward in the future. we're looking toward october 31, 2011.

there are certain aspects that will continue for their air force and other things like that. i did not know whether they would go through you, david, but i have a new director of communications that just came on board. they are in charge of our communications gear as they move forward. we will respond to any information you want to in the future. thank you, for everyone's time today. >> thank you. between us we will get all of that the questions to you so you can get them. >> however you all set that up. i'm not sure how you do it. we will be glad to respond to anything you want to know further about. >> thank you, sir.

>> thank you very much, everybody. >> coming up shortly on c-span, a special state department briefing on pakistan's flood relief. the u.n. now estimates that 17 million people have been affected by the flood in pakistan with 6 million lacking shelter. we will hear from the state department deputy special representative for pakistan who will brief reporters about his recent trip to the country. he will be joined by other state department officials including one from usaid's office of disaster assistance. in the meantime, we will show you some of this morning's "washington journal."

examples of some of the headlines in the papers. "the wall street journal," we will begin with that. credit card rates, levels hit nine-year high as new rules limiting penalty fees prompt new rise. the of that story in "the wall street journal" is another economic story about the situation in many states. facing budget gaps, city's self parking, airports, and zoos.

that is a story in "the wall street journal" if you want to read more about that. "usa today" as a front-page story about children and katrina. children still can't get past katrina. the study found there is emotional pain for thousands. we are covering a hearing today. go to c-span.org for when it will air. but it is a panel looking at children and disasters. it is 2010 report to congress. the fema director will be there.

this morning, a little bit more about the states. here is a piece in the opinion section of "the wall street journal" about how states hide their budget deficits, if you are interested in that story line. that is inside "the wall street journal." also paul krugman writes opinion piece in "the new york times," now, that's rich, looking at the bush tax cuts. he says --

the headline for his piece is called "now, that's rich." "the wall street journal" opinion piece on spending. how much the spending baseline has increased in 31 months, $4.40 trillion. >> mean will leave "washington journal" to go to a special briefing on pakistan flood relief. >> we'll begin with special representative feldman who will give us an update on his recent trip to pakistan and then handed

over to the deputy secretary. >> thank you very much. good to see many of you again. i want to give a barrick -- a very brief read out on the trip i took last week. i was part of senator kerrey -- kerry's trip. there were four or five of us traveling. during her time in pakistan, we've visited the staging area for the u.s. helicopters. we spoke to troops there. in really demonstrated to us the joint coordination between the u.s. and pakistan military. we have briefings by u.s. and pakistani leadership. this is an area where we have a number of military and civilian

helicopters staging from rescuing people, providing supplies. bill will talk about the contribution of helicopters to the effort. we're working of to the full complement of 19 u.s. helicopters. through last night, i think the total of u.s. helicopters was close to 8000 people and delivered more than 1.6 million pounds of relief supplies. along with senator john kerry, we flew to punjab where we met the president on the ground. we then took several helicopters up and spent several hours looking at the flood damage from the air including landing at a government run campus. it is a very densely populated

area. it produces much of the agricultural output. the extensive the damage a visually was every bit as ethic and devastating as you would imagine, miles and miles as far as you could see. agricultural fields are under water, roads and bridges under water, roads continuously disrupted so it is impossible to move the people, food, or supplies out. power plants are literally under water. they're stretching as far as you can see. reenforcing for us, obviously, not only the degree of immediate relief that would be needed as the u.n. and other people have focused on, but longer-term the reconstructive efforts which will take many more months if

not years and the sheer impact still needs to be assessed but will be staggering. to kind of highlights move the key issues the u.s. is doing that they highlighted at the special session last week, we have been very proud that the u.s. response has been first and most among contributors showing that the generosity of the american people. we're not providing up to 100 testy million dollars to support relief efforts including some of that earmarked towards the human flood response plan. we're just over the 20% flat- rolled of the plan of a $460 million. this plan is going towards u.n. agencies, operations for the government of pakistan. we're also looking to provide

technical assistance as far as temporary bridges come existing programs, meals, and a range of other things. we are looking at ways that we can redirect already existing funds to meet the needs of the flood victims as soon as possible. programs for livelihood, clinics, rebuilding schools and infrastructure that we had already planned which could be redirected to get to the flood victims as soon as possible. this is in addition to the high impact project that the secretary announced just last month. that will continue to come out of the carry-lieberman funding. ker --ry-liberman funding. we ask everyone in the international community to join in the reconstruction and flood relief effort. this was accompanied by another campaign in addition to the one

that was announced where $10 goes to the unhcr. you can text flood to 27722 which will donate to the pakistani relief fund. we're looking at multilateral meetings to the need to gauge and assess where the needs will be and how we can best meet those as we shift from relief efforts to reconstruction and recovery. the size of this endeavor is still remarkable. we're talking about an area affected the that is the size of italy or florida. over 1 million homes have now been destroyed. deaths are still thankfully relatively low around 1600 mark.

we will have to continue to see where happens in terms of the forecast for rain. water levels still remain quite high. a few others are starting to receive it, but there are some broken pieces. the world health organization is very focused on cholera as well as malaria. in the international community, there is a real galvanizing moment in terms of contributions from other countries. by our count, we have seen $700 million pledged including our own 100 to $50 million commitment from over 30 countries and an additional $300 million as the undefined commitments from other countries. they're going through the u.n. fund as well as bilaterally. we're trying to continue to

gauge that and make sure the sod gets a coordinated in as effective manner as possible. you're seeing additional assets including the first group of helicopters from japan. three are on the way now with another three coming quite soon. the helicopters which talked about potentially from other countries and continued civilian assistance in a range of ways as well. we will continue to be closely monitoring this and working with the international community to coordinate this. bill will talk about the particular role and where we are in relief efforts altogether. >> thank you, dan. thank you very much. on behalf of all of us, let me express our deepest sympathies for those affected by the tragic flooding in pakistan. many of you know the department of state and the bureau of

international narcotics and law enforcement affairs has a long and close cooperation in pakistan for border security and counter-narcotics. as part of that, the u.s. has provided a number of helicopters and the government of pakistan has provided other technical support in order to conduct the programs. since the flooding, it has been used for relief efforts. let me get right to the specifics of that. seven helicopters and rescue then transported approximately 1400 individuals and delivered nearly 200,000 pounds of equipment and supply curve of. this includes doctors with medical supplies which are seen as an important priority.

two cessna airplanes with crews from the ministry of the interior are being utilized for flood relief, shuttling maintenance crews between operating locations and flying reconnaissance missions to survey flood written areas of the country. those of you who follow pakistan and u.s.-pakistan relations are aware of our strategic dialogue led by secretary clinton and the pakistan foreign minister. an important part of that is regarding law enforcement which met in islamabad in july. it has been a productive effort and i particularly want to point to the effort between the government of pakistan and the united states to reach an agreement relating to these which helped make the technical support needed for this operation possible.

there are some other efforts aside from the aviation efforts that the united states and in my bureau has made available. 12 still bridges in pakistan to those places washed out by the flooding. then there's the federally a bestired tribal areas. one of them has already been administered. six bridges will be deployed to additional districts. one has been sent to the southwest. >> hello again. let me give you some developments since the last time we spoke. expecting some isolated thunderstorms in the north over the next couple of days.

the damage and we are concerned about flooding. since the government has been evacuating some people from lower laying areas. some good news up north. the first signs of people going home are here. this allows us to get in with some of the organizations to provide cash for work opportunities, to start clearing away some of the debris, some of the mud. we can ride credits as some people can start to put their lives back together. on food, we are now delivering food. we are getting close to 2 million people. we are adding 140,000 beneficiaries the day in the food distribution. i think this is showing signs that access is getting easier at least in the north. on health, we have been able to

get around and consult with and treat 1.5 million patients oliver the country. we have been helping the world health organization's to distribute essential medical kits to 2 million people. as we have mentioned before, we are concerned about cholera and other waterborne diseases. the dead dhl has set up 55 -- the world health organization has a set of 55 treatment facilities so we can get them to one of the treatment centers so we can keep in the concerns about cholera in check. malaria is getting to be a concern. just because of the time of year and some much water, we are providing mosquito nets for families who choose to go home.

clean water is still a huge issue, maybe one of the most important. we have seven more of these giant water treatment machines arriving this week which will still get us up to 13. the one they have already provided are turning around safe drinking water. we have a release of flights coming in this way that will be delivering and we have tens of thousands of blankets because we still have many people evacuated not able to go home yet. we are bringing in 40 more inflatable boats because we still have issues with certain communities getting cut off. we need to get them out of there. rick and start using these boats so we have a little bit more access.

i think that is enough. >> we have time for some questions. >> new reports about discrimination in the aid distribution which is more focused toward [inaudible] is there any truth [inaudible] >> i have not seen reports on this german share -- discriminatory and behavior. there's so much that needs to be done, that we're trying to make sure that we can get this done in as coordinated way as possible. we have seen the area's most impacted change as it continues to close out. and ultimately that may provide

some inland flooding. we will see where it comes from. i think in our work and coordinating with the the range of organizations, they have tried to target those in the more critical need. it has been in the eastern provinces. there are meeting scheduled multilaterally for this fall. there was a friend of democratic pakistan met for august 14 and 15th which will address fled issues. that will be october 14 and 15th. that will vault into something that's special on board repair has been working on and flooding will be essential component of that now. there is a meeting of special representatives in october and

i'm sure pakistan will be a key part of that schedule. in following up, there has been talked about having another meeting on the margins in september and there is a range of other potential initiatives. there will be a variety of the forums to continue this dialogue and make sure the international community is as coordinated as possible. >> u.s. efforts are appreciated by the pakistan government. many people in pakistan are saying [inaudible] where are all these things going? >> the scope of the problem is such that we're trying to meet

it as best as possible. certainly, i am witness to the fact that the camp i saw that was run by the government will be getting to some people, but the needs are so vast that i'm sure things are being done to me that as fast as possible. much of our funding is going to gm -- u.n. agencies. >> you are saying now pakistan is getting $2 billion from the asian garden bank and $10 billion from the imf. billions of dollars have been received by the pakistan government. europe has to focus more now on the people.

>> we are not -- reordering of this in the rhythm is best equipped to handle the practice. much of our funding is going through these credible organizations. and they're not getting assistance as quick as possible. these issues are so immense in terms of the economic infrastructure, so on going information will still be hammered out over the next few weeks. >> pakistan's finance minister will be in town this week. when you have any discussions with anyone in this building. is there talk about debt relief as one possible option? i was hoping you could talk a

little bit more about kerry- lieberman and if any of that needs to be in release or front loaded so we can get money faster. where are we on that? >> as i am the stand, these imf meetings were already rescheduled. i believe there will be meetings for the state department representatives but would have to confirm that. on dean -- on the kerry- lieberman progress, that is being looked at. they're trying to identify funding that can just being redirected as quickly as possible. the livelihood programs, clinics, immunization, rebuilding schools, much of it in this area is ongoing.

we also did not want to detract from the core mission which would be the king had these sectors on agriculture, and for stricter, water, health, education, and making sure we have the right balance of these high-visibility projects with the ongoing projects. that assessment will continue to go on. >> so it is a question of seat -- of sequencing runner than adding new project? >> we will have to see. we will have to see with the needs are. it will overwhelmingly be used for construction has -- instead of a media -- instead of longer term needs. >> when we talk to people there,

we hear that some board positions are involved in distributing items and it comes at a time when the minister said yesterday in a briefing said they are taking advantage of the situation. i was just wondering how you would respond to this. >> i know we have addressed questions about the vending properties about how what organizations are used. last count that i saw, there were 17 organizations that have the infrastructure in place to get the assistance out as quickly and efficiently as possible. we continue to do that and there is a rigorous betting about what industries work with. there have always been stories about extremist charities operating.

we think in a situation like this where there's a lot to be done that there may well be an opportunity for some of them to operate, but the needs are so vast and there is so much money in the international organizations and the work is so well known that it far outstrips the relatively other match racing from the extremist organizations. >> any update on the ability of the palestinian government to continue its war on terror given the flooding? >> we are all focused on with the humanitarian needs are at this point. many of these areas, particularly since these were areas that were subject to the kind of security means, are being currently focused on the relief efforts.

we will have to continue to assess and see what happens with the pakistan government and military to see how that can be used. >> thank you. >> continuing on, two quick points to make before taking questions. on friday evening, you out -- the u.s. submitted a report in in accordance with the human

rights's council of the periodic review process. this is one step in the process. the next step will be a formal presentation by the u.s. government. the report stands as just one element of the broad u.s. effort to engage constructively with the u.n. and other international organizations. there was an unprecedented level of cooperation providing an opportunity and we hope will serve as an opportunity for other countries to follow. as well as 10 other departments including the white house. this can be found on the web site under state.gov. for public diplomacy and public

affairs, a representative will travel to uruguay, july -- and chile. she will meet with you thin professional exchange programs, academics, students, business leaders, and social media entrepreneurs. >> on the middle east, the palestinians have been clear since the invitation went down on friday that unless theme israelis extend the settlement freeze and expand it to east jerusalem that this will be a very short round of talks, like baseicall -- basically two days. what are you guys doing with the israelis to avert this? >> we look forward to the first

meeting next week with prime minister netanyahu on september 2 as well as the individual meetings. we look forward to getting into the direct negotiation and the forward to that when the bigger share action starts will be incumbent on the israelis and palestinians. >> what seems to be the prime issue for the palestinians? >> we expect to address settlements as well as the other crucial issues within the context of the organization. "-- >> this is the one that

will break this down for the owens. we hope this comes up for reconsideration during september. we are very mindful of this. we are mindful of the importance of the issue within the negotiation. that is why we want to get to the negotiation so know this can be resolved outside of the organization. are you working now with the israelis -- >> are you working now with the israelis to possibly extend and expand the freeze? >> the incorrect -- the direct negotiations began on september 2. you can rest assured that this will be among the topics discussed early on. >> in the run-up to the actual announcement made on friday? have you asked them to extend the moratorium?

the issue of settlements. >> it has been a longstanding taboo discussion between the u.s. and israel. >> do you worry they have not committed to extend them? >> i know, as we have been saying to let the process and has been to get the parties in direct negotiations. once there, then these very issues will be tabled and resolved. >> i'm not sure i understand how you expect this to work. crack to have had a year and half of absolutely nothing -- >> you have had a year and half of absolutely nothing. we thought this was the kind of issue we were going to be discussing and now you are saying this had not been discussed at all? >> i did not say that at all. this is an issue we have discussed. we have discussed it with them both. and will be the addressed

specifically within the negotiations. >> are you looking for a formula whereby the israelis could in some form extend the moratorium? >> the issue of settlements and the moratorium has been a topic of discussion and will be a topic of discussion when the leaders meet with secretary clinton on september 2. >> if the moratorium is not extended, is that an issue that is likely to be the first of september 2 and you need to overcome that before the negotiations can begin? >> remindful of the palestinian position. once we are now in direct negotiations, we expect both parties will do everything within their power to create an environment for those negotiations to continue construction. >> does this mean you have

sensitivity to the issue and you may be supportive to call for an extension on the moratorium? >> we understand the importance of the issue and of the direct negotiation. it will be something we are discussing with the parties as we get into the negotiation. >> is it not true that he called senator mitchell to discuss the fact that secretary clinton said they could not talk without preconditions and it happened right after the statement on friday? >> there is no mystery here that the issue of the settlement moratorium could perhaps affect the organization. is this something we have discussed with the israelis and palestinians and it will be a continue discussion on september

2. >> but you not mention specific to vacation on the settlement? -- specific communication after the settlement? >> we understand the palestinian position. >> on september 2, they will meet at the state department. what happens on september 3? does this all depends on what happens on september 2 in overcoming? >> one the topics of discussion will be to set out a prospectus schedule for further discussions directly between the israelis and the palestinians. [inaudible] >> can you have a negotiation of

peace without [unintelligible] >> if your question is can we have a successful discussion without iranian involvement, the answer is yes. >> [unintelligible] support ofly iran's groups that have been opponents of achieving peace in the middle east is an ongoing concern to us. that does not mean they will be drawn into the discussion. >> is there a meeting scheduled for september 3 or does it and on september 2? >> right now, we're just focusing on the meetings on september 2. i cannot rule out that they will continue, but i will not project

that. >> there are loose -- there are religious observances. >> but you expect to go home? >> right now, we are only projecting a 1 day meeting. >> different subject. in the chilean mine disaster or merkel depending on how you look at it, help from the u.s. -- are we providing any help? >> not that i'm aware of. crux is the u.s. government concern that the indian government has refused permission to the u.s. embassy in new delhi to sell [unintelligible] >> this is something that comes

up from time to time as we are adjusting our facilities. >> the government affairs minister has asked that if the u.s. is adamant in selling it that it should be bought by the ministry of external affairs. >> this is an ongoing discussion between the u.s. and indian governments. >> is senator kerry going to north korea? >> i defer to his office in terms of trial -- travel. >> one of them said dean talks are going on in one way or available. >> this is an afghan lead process. i cannot say that i'm familiar

with particular talks, but i would not rule it out. crack's a quick question. there is a letter from lawmakers concerned about their interest in the u.s. and other business with tehran -- business with irna. -- iran. >> i think it went to the trade representative dan the secretary of commerce. >> any comments on the chinese nuclear envoy which has called between the united states and north korea for the six party talks? crux no particular comment, no. >> do you have any reaction to rolling out the new fire power?

>> i will defer to the government of iran. this is of concern to us and concern to iran's neighbors. on the one hand, every country is sovreign and has the right to provide for defense. we take into account systems that can threaten peace and stability in the region. in the face of iranian capabilities, we have stepped up cooperation with other countries in the region and this is one reason we believe if they continue on this path, you have

countries joining together to offset them. >> the dc is, having defeated the u.s. by their logic? -- did you see their comments having defeated the u.s.? >> there is no particular logic on the path that they are on. their nuclear ambitions, we believe in the long run make them less secure. we are still open to constructive dialogue with them to try and clarify the question that we have in the international community about the true nature of their nuclear programs. in the meantime, we will work with other countries to try and do everything that we can to maintain peace and stability in the region. toit look like you're about say something and then shied away from it.

>> that is a curious name for a system. >> there is a comment that secretary clinton told the spanish minister that we would take some of these prisoners. secondly, a lot of reports about governor richardson on his way or in havana right now. is he on any sort of mission for the administration? >> we continue to urge cuba to release all prisoners. some that have made the trip from cuba to spain have inquired about coming to the united states. we will evaluate those on a case by case basis. >> and gov. richard send? >> he is in cuba on a new mexico

trade mission. we had a conversation with him last week. we brought him up to date on the status of the case and asked if he would raise it with his discussion this week. >> when you say you will evaluate them on a case by case basis, any law or regulation that would hinder or prevent them from coming in the country? >> we are working closely to find the most expeditious manner to handle every request that these individuals might make in details are still being worked out. >> what is your understanding of what they might request? are they eligible to request asylum? were they becoming as regular immigrant stocks >> they are individuals who had made

inquiries. i do not know if there have been formal requests made yet to come to the united states, but we on a case by case basis. >> but as far as you know there is nothing that would prevent them or automatically reductor application of one was made? >> something that would automatically reject? >> there has been a lot of talk about the executive order or regulations put in place, that kind of thing. this has been brought up. >> there is no question that in traveling to the united states from cuba to a third country is a more complicated process. it is more complicated but it does not rule anyone coming to the united states. >> just to follow-up, the u.s. ambassador is selling it for 460 million indian rupees.

they founded to be nearly five times that amount. are you going to investigate the are selling it at such a the price? >> i will refer to the embassy in new delhi to answer that. >> and if the indian government wants to purchase it? >> again, i refer to the embassy in new delhi. >> many indians did not believe. they believe their country and pakistan [unintelligible] india is no longer tied to pakistan. [unintelligible]

is the u.s. playing a role in the statement? >> these are individual judgments made country by country. we certainly encourage countries in the region to work collectively together because they confront and share threats. we think some of these challenges can on the be resolved for effective and coordinated action across the region. does afghanistan need to have a constructive relationship with pakistan? yes. does pakistan the to have a constructive relationship with india? yes. should all of these countries need to avoid a zero sum mentality about a game -- about a gain on one side being a detriment to the other? this will ultimately help reduce the threat of terrorism to anyone of them.

>> you mentioned senator john kerry's travel schedule is up to him. is the administration considering sending someone of considerable status to north korea on the gun issue? >> we remain concerned about the health and welfare. as you know, we had a team to evaluate him in recent days. we want to see him returned to the united states as soon as possible. beyond that, i have no other affirmation i can share with you. -- no other information i can share. >> what other things are you prepared to do to get him released? >> we are engaged with the north koreans to get him -- to get them to release him on humanitarian grounds. >> and that would include sending someone of significant

status? >> i have no information to share with you. >> do you have any information or no information to share with us? >> i have no information to share with you. cracks in other words, there is something to this. this is being discussed. might there be someone on their way right now in a plane? are we going to go back to the game we played a couple of weeks ago? so we just wait for the pictures of some envoy to arrive. >> we are agent to get him home. -- anxious to get him home. we have ongoing discussions with north korea to try and obtain his release. >> there is an article yesterday in "the washington post," in which a sigh of relief was being felt. do you expect there is a great deal of goodwill and feelings

toward jim jeffries that he will be more effective in negotiating a new government? what are you feeling from that? >> we have been very fortunate to years to have a number of distinguished statesmen as ambassadors in baghdad. each has confronted a different set of challenges. different ambassadors have worked effectively to address the challenges. and is hard to say to compare these administrators -- these ambassadors, they are all distinguished as diplomats. they have all engaged effectively with the government in baghdad. krystle was an ambassador as working through our relationship with iraq. -- chris hill was ambassador as

we worked through our relationship. ryan crocker was there when we were still executing a largely military strategy. each of those conditions were different. the interest in the united states during a particular stage in our involvement in iraq was different. but jim jeffreys we hope he will succeed just as chris hill did. >> do you expect him to be effective in negotiating with the government? >> yes, that is why we nominated him. >> in negotiating with the next government? >> we expected jim jeffreys to be just as effective as hill and crocker. >> have you ever named in ambassador expecting them not to be effective? [laughter]

i asked because it appears that president chavez does not think your ambassador designate to venezuela does not continue to be -- >> and we continue our conversation with venezuela. we believe that there a polymer, if confirmed by the set, will be -- we believe that larry palmer is confirmed by the senate, will be an effective senate -- effective ambassador. >> what is the answer to this question for the national security adviser to afghanistan and the foreign minister in his article of bed in "the washington post"? the heading is that pakistan is getting aggressive. his mentioning that the

terrorists continue to receive billions of dollars in aid and assistance. how is this monumental contradiction -- >> as i mentioned, one cannot look at this in isolation. one cannot look at this through the lens of a 0 some calculation. is in the u.s. interest to work with afghanistan to deal with a thread that is a direct consequence of the united states. likewise, it is in our interest to work effectively in with pakistan to deal with the extremist threat that exists within their borders. these are not mutually exclusive and likewise it will be important for afghanistan and pakistan to have effective relationships going forward. with the effective action on both sides of the border, we think this will be reduced to afghanistan, pakistan, and other countries. >> one follow-up. he said we are cutting ties.

>> in fact, we have encouraged them to take actions to deal with the threat within their borders. we are satisfied the steps that pakistan has taken thus far, but the defense of pakistan that they started needs to continue. >> when will you be releasing a fact sheet on who will be there, contracts, betting for the state department increased commitment to the area? >> we will see if we have a fact sheet pending on the future status. >> he has made some comments that have trickled out and part of it comes from a peter king. the have requested that the state department reveal more of

the specifics of his itinerary. is that something you are prepared to do? could you do that now? >> he remained b millionahrain. i believe -- he remains in bahrain. he goes to qatar tomorrow. he will visit mosques and key leaders. he will be talking to some university students while they're. -- while there. i can characterize the kinds of things he will be doing, but we have not released a public schedule yet because we are expecting the character of the conversation and he will have a similar type of programming inthe uae. he has had some interaction with

the media overseas. i expect he will have some interaction with the media in qatar. i think he has indicated that much returns to the united states he will be free to describe what he did and what the reception was in those particular countries. >> what about the key figures he is meeting with? >> on these trips that are -- our 12 matter experts make on a periodic basis around the country and around the world -- 1200 experts make on a periodic basis from the country and around the world, we did not release schedules. we're not treating this trip any different than any of those others. >> has requested that you do not release that information, or is that dumping that the state

department decided? -- something that the state department decided? >> we have a policy. these are not necessarily trips that engender the same kind of headlines that you are seeking. we are not hiding him. by the same token, these are visits to groups, figures, that are occasionally open to the public, but, for the most part, they are not. >> do you have any comment on north korea having launched a new propaganda on united states through facebook? >> as i tweeted on friday, the real question is whether north korea will allow its citizens to join facebook. what is it without friends?

>> you have any comment on pakistan? >> a promise to get you something on that. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> live, all day today, on c- span2, the coast guard and the bureau of ocean management are looking into the deepwater horizon oil spill. today's focus is the design of the oil well and its construction as well as vessel safety management systems. that is live all day on our companion network, c-span2. they are in a break now and will resume at 2:15. that is live on c-span2. a reminder -- we have an extensive archives of the information regarding the deepwater horizon will spill of 2010. you can watch dozens of hearings and briefings from washington and in the field, read documents, and linked to other -- links to other related web pages at c-span.org

/oilspill. >> tonight, three books on explorers. "velocity of eldorado." the final journey of henry hudson, the journey which ended in mutiny. and a discussion of shamil de champlain -- samuel de champlain. >> i am not saying the report is entirely wrong. i am saying the statements about me are wrong. let me be clear. i have never taken steroids or hgh. >> with the indictment for false testimony under oath, go back and watch the hearings bonds to reduce in baseball online at the c-span library -- the

hearings on steroid use in baseball online at the c-span library. >> analysts and academics discussed human trafficking, child labor, and prostitution in china at a roundtable discussion in washington, d.c., last friday. it talked about efforts to combat the problems, including the u.n. protocol which attempts to reduce international human trafficking. the commission that on to the four -- 1 commission sponsored the forum which is just over one hour and 20 minutes. >> thank you for being here. i have just returned from north dakota. we have organized around a table -- a round-table. as co-chairman of the commission, i thought i would come by and have the opportunity

to visit with all of you and the witnesses. i thank the witnesses who have come to lead the discussions on this project that is very important. i have written about this subject in a book. it is a subject that our commissioned things is very important -- the issue of human trafficking. in dealing with china, coming from the standpoint of the congressional executive committee on china, we have had a number of hearings and roundtable discussions about what happens in china. i am pleased to say the subject on which we have a discussion today is one on which there has been some progress in china. as think is important to recognize that the chinese -- i think it is important to recognize that the chinese does recognize -- the chinese government recognizes this is an issue. i am pleased that that result.

however, it has been more aggressive to describe this as a problem in to begin talking about national efforts to address it, bennett has with respect to the local governments effective capability -- a van it has with the -- than it has with respect to the local government's effective capability to deal with it.

she died. i described the circumstances of her death in my book. this young woman was making stuffed animals that would be sent to our country, among aners, and she is not atypical person in china. she left school in the third grade, was sent to feed livestock, at age 15, went to work in toy factories in the city. working for 30 cents per hour, 16 hours per day, with no days off, in bad working conditions, she died. the reason i cite that case and write about that is to point out

that we use statistics and aggregate data, but behind all of these statistics are individuals, people, too often, children. the issue of human trafficking, in most cases, relates to the subject of human trafficking of women and children. there is also human trafficking in forced labor, which is important. what i wrote about deals with forced labor and with children. inre very interested encouraging china to continue the progress they have made to improve and increase the enforcement of the things that the national government has described as a problem. we think the issue of human trafficking, which has long existed, and which we know has been a significant problem, needs to be a problem that all of us work to try to press

china to address very aggressively. we have put together an opportunity today to hear from some very informed and interesting people who will discuss with us their evaluation of what is happening and where we are with respect to forced labor in the country of china, and with respect to trafficking of women and children in the country of china. first, mr. brown will talk about the challenges that have been proposed by china's legal definition of human trafficking. it is a narrower definition then has been described internationally. that is a problem. when they describe it more narrowly and then try to enforce it against international standards, that is a problem. next, and discussion of anti- trafficking policy and its impact on migrants sex workers.

she has done ethnographic research in china's underground brothels. she has done a lot of work, for several years, on-site in those circumstances. her work is really groundbreaking. finally, a discussion of the anti-trapping campaigns and their effect on the work of certain nongovernmental -- anti- trapping campaigns and their effect on the circuit -- the work of certain nongovernmental organizations. finally, a discussion on human smuggling in human trafficking. i will be here for one hour and then turn it over. in that time, i want to thank the witnesses for their willingness to be here. when the witnesses, or those were going to present testimony for discussion today -- when the discussion, we

will have a wide-open question and answer session. i appreciate all of you who have come to be part of this. feel free to participate fully in that question and answer session. first, we will hear from earle brown -- earl brown, from the solidarity center. he has represented trade unions and employees under civil litigation since 1976. he has long experience. he has served as international counsel to the brotherhood of teamsters. he has worked for the -- he is a partner in a law firm. he has substantial credentials. we appreciate him being with us. >> thank you, senator. i work for a labor and human rights ngo that has offices on the ground around the world,

working with trade unions, human rights, labor rights, and she'll's. -- and ngo's. we see the daily stories from victims of labor trafficking, in the main, from around the world. those stories, globally, are not different from the stories we hear about china. i am glad that the senator acknowledged the progress that china has been making. in the past curriers, china has made remarkable progress in -- three years, china has made remarkable progress in implementing a labor structure. at the end of 2009, they ratified the treaty -- the convention on trafficking and the protocols, the dimension on organized criminality and the

protocols. i want to go to the human faces the senator mentioned, which keeps our organization working around the world. a lot of overtime. we are a labor organization. we are not compensated. based in asia, we have an office in thailand. that is the center of labor trafficking. it impacts china. a demonstration of how trafficking is a regional program -- problem. it is the formal labor market and the illegal labor market. for many hours, i interviewed a young thai boy who grew up on a pineapple plantation. the one thing he wanted to do was get away from pineapples.

he never wanted to see one again. he went to the big city. he was literally, as we say in english, shanhaied by a chinese gang. he was held in a home for three weeks. put on the vessel. fished without pay under force of a gun. from the waters of indonesia, he and a friend jump off the boat, swam to the coast, mucked around in the jungle, came back to thailand, and were shanghaied again. that is an amazing story appeared this is a hong kong, southern coastal china gang operating in thailand. in another instance, i was in the south of thailand with the migrant worker rights and gl -- rights anngo.

there were all these women on the bus. after inquiring, we found out they were from north korea. they had fled north korea, across the river, into china, had granted -- had f transmitted all the way through various countries. we could not figure out exactly what they were doing. they told us they had been promised jobs in factories. the chances of them working at jobs in factories were low. the chances of them getting paid for any kind of work are very low. these are the stories that, in our view, from our offices around the world, are multiplying as an economic crisis takes a hidden toll on workers everywhere, as more workers are dropped out of formal legal structures, as more

employers seek to avoid labor law compliance by resorting to some legal and illegal labor markets. we have a pretty word for these "semi" legal markets. we call them flexible. wages are not paid according to standard. children are allowed to work. hourly restrictions are not maintained. labor is cheap, because it is illegal. to us, as lawyers and worker rights advocates, this poses a huge rule of law question. the employers that want to abide by the law -- by the way, most citizens of the world encounter the law through either a petty criminal law or through labor law, not through copyright law, patent law, commercial contract

law. they encounter it through labor law where they paid their wages as do and when do -- as due and when due. they encountered when their kids get in trouble with speeding or traffic rules. that is how they judge the law. if that isw is not -- not enforced, they have to compete with employers who do not obey the law. then we are eroding the rule of law at a level that is not generally widely in appreciated -- widely appreciated. this. the -- this impunity is growing in the world. it is growing in the region. i do not think any government is up to speed on it. the traffickers, the brokers, the freight forwarders of human

cargo, the drivers, the receiving agents, the banks, the escorts -- all these people are so adaptable that it is very hard for staid, understaffed, under-resourced labor bureaucracies to keep up. it is hard for even the most nimble prosecutor to keep up. that is why we, in our work around the world, focus on strengthening labor institutions on the ground, as well as insisting on rigorous prosecution of these crimes. the senator pointed to the progress in chinese law nt also pointed to the gap. -- and he also pointed to the gap. china ratified and exceeded to the palermo protocol on trafficking -- acceded to the

palermo protocol on trafficking. that is a massive step forward. but there law only talks about women and children and has a particular emphasis on sex trafficking. for every one victim of sex trafficking, there are nine victims of labor trafficking. we do not view such trafficking -- sex trafficking and labor trafficking as competing or conflicting. there is a remarkably rich bipartisan interface, cross- ideological consensus on all trafficking. the are not competing. they are mutually-reinforcing illegalities. people who are traffic for labor -- the young women, the children -- are often sexually abused. people who are trafficked for sex are often slotted into work.

it is the same drivers, the same agents, the same ships, the st. escorts, in many cases. we're not for an artificial divorce. we would certainly urge china and united states -- because this is a problem for all countries and we need a new discourse. trafficking survives in the united states where a lot -- in our opinion -- a lot of chinese workers are traffic because of labor law illegality in the united states. that is what fuels it. we cannot point to one system as perfect and one as in perfect predictor mutually -- as imperfect. it is a mutual problem. two countries, one problem. with that, i will leave you. thank you for this opportunity. >> thank you barry much. we appreciate your perspective. you have offered a lot for people to observe and ask

questions about. next, we will hear from dr. zheng, a professor of anthropology at the state university of new york. she received her ph.d. in anthropology at yale university in 2003. she has offered four books on sex, gender, migration, hiv/aids. in her books include -- her books include and ethnography -- an ethnography study. she looks at a steady/aids through an anthropological lends. -- hiv/aids through an anthropological lands. -- lens. she has done a prodigious and impressive amount of work in

this area. thank you for being with us.

one cannot deny the fact that if some individuals are first -- forced to work as sex workers against their will. it also has their -- its own share of hazards. empirical research shows that there is a broad spectrum of work experience. a vast majority engage in sex work as a result of poverty and a lack of viable alternatives to trafficking. in my own ethnographic research of migrants sex workers in china these women actively seeks sex work not only in the city as undocumented migrants sex workers, but also outside of china, as a means of earning money.

>> our organization is an aids organization. we work with sex workers and gay

and lesbian communities, ethnic minorities, migrant workers. we are not working specifically on human trafficking, but we have the chance to observe the issues in different populations. today, i will give you some cases. first, i will talk about the drug used communities. we are talking -- drug using communities. we're working with several organizations. following drug users -- we mean that they tend to become sex workers. drug use and sex workers are illegal. they go underground.

the women drug users might be sold by their clients. the drug users and their family members might be involved in trafficking. a family -- a son who is using drugs. the mother, eventually, because of the economic burden will get involved in human trafficking. this is related to drug use. in china, burma borders china. there is a lot of growth.

the second case is like in the uygur community is. in china, -- communities. in china, there are several communities that are heavily affected by drug use. the uygur ethnic group is one such group. in beijing, shanghai, and other cities, there are many uygur migrants. on the street, there are many homeless uygur children. they steal from people's pockets. they use drugs. -- some of them use drugs.

teenagers are kidnapped by criminals. they are controlled by criminals in urban cities. when they are detained by police -- because of the cultural and language issues, they do not know anything.. they do not know their families. eventually, police -- the cannot do anything -- they cannot do anything. children are totally controlled by the criminalis. -- criminals. the weeders =--- uygurs -- they get sentenced.

he was sentenced to 15 years. this year, our organization worked on some cases. a drug user who was sick with aids and with tuberculosis -- he was really sick. he was kidnapped from his home town. the next group is the ethnic migrant workers. there are many migrant workers in the conning -- in qangming. they are taken by criminals. there are labor trafficking issues.

they get sent to some underground factories and work almost as slaves in some factories in the cities. next case is the female sex workers. two years ago, in beijing, we have a center for the most -- for female sex workers. we have a team to work among them in beijing. at our center, there was a woman who arrived from burma. she moved to beijing. she has no official identity -- no personal documents. she did not receive government

or medical care programs. in beijing, among the female sex workers, many women are predatoed by criminals. they control them. some of them are forced to be sex workers, to be forced into prostitution. some of them might gradually be forced to be sex workers. the next case is the male sex workers. in china, there is a growing -- emerging from a larger gay

community -- emerging, larger gay community. in the urban cities, there are male sex workers. some managers rent an apartment or some hotel rooms. some managers -- they find strong, young men in the provinces, then they maniuplate -- manipulate them. the managers tend to control the environment and the money. some boys are pretty young. they might be -- most of them are voluntary.

some are in a controlled environment. the managers exchange sex workers a lot. for people who become sick, they lack medical care. we understand. we could work with sex or communities, a drug user communities, -- sex worker communities, drug user communities. it creates difficulties when the environment does not allow us to work on the tracking issues. if we can erase the trafficking

issues, the government might try -- crack down on the rest of the environment. it is totally impossible right now. from our perspective, if the government could do something, it might create and environment which might enable us to work on child prostitution and human trafficking issues. thank you. >> we will finally hear from patrick radden keefe, who has been a fellow at the sentry foundation and he is also a published author. he holds degrees from columbia, cambridge, and the london school of economics, and yale law school. his writings have appeared extensively in most of the major publications.

is currently on leave and serving as a policy adviser in the office of the secretary of defense, where he focuses on non state cross-border security issues. >> thank you. thank you to you and the commission for having me. it is a privilege to be here. i should also use the standard disclaimer. i recently this -- joined the department of defense. my views do not represent the departments in any way. it is based on work i did before arriving there. i want to approach this from a slightly different angle and talk about two different concepts that are distinct in some ways, but also opposite ends of the continuum -- contracting and human smuggling. -- human trafficking and human sidsmuggling. i was glad to hear that there are misconceptions that can

sometimes cloud our analysis. you can find somebody who is in a situation which is fundamentally exploited and that we would think they don't want to be in, but they are there out of free will. in some instances, they chose that situation. it is very tricky when it starts out as free will and then becomes more coercive. the person i will tell you about is not actually a victim of trafficking. it is somebody who was a human smuggler -- known as a "snakehead." i wrote this article and then developed it into a book. the woman was from southeast china. she came to the united states in the early 1980's. for about two decades, she was

one of the most prolific human smugglers on the planet. she would bring people illegally by an extraordinarily- sophisticated series of routes into the united states, where they would ask for asylum, or ask -- or join the underground economy, working as undocumented workers in various industries here in the u.s. there is an interesting misconception about human smuggling as it is practiced by the "snakeheads." you will hear human smuggling in human trafficking used interchangeably. i made i -- i went to great pains to make that distinction in my book, yet the reviews often use them interchangeably still. the misconception that is prevalent is that people who want to leave china approached the snakehead, pay a small down payment on a much larger fee -- the fees are astonishing.

by the 1990's, $35,000. today, the industry is at about $70,000 -- back to illegally from china into the u.s. if they make it here -- and that is a big if -- they could get stopped in numerous places. the ships could sink. they can be indicted -- interdicted. the misconception is that the migrants get to the united states and then have to work as indentured servants for years, slowly paying off that feed. -- fee. when i talk to people in the business, they said, it does not make sense. i do not want to chase after dozens and hundreds of debtors. people are held for 72-hours --

a 72-hour grace period. they're often held at gunpoint. they are told to call everyone they know. they borrow from people -- $500, $2,000. the cobbled together the feet and pay off this weekend and they are released -- they cobble together the fee, pay off the snakehead, and they are released. the transport over here is very perilous. you may have heard of the golden venture, which ran aground in 1993. when i started my research -- this ship had a hold. there were 300 passengers. the hold was about half the size of this room, if you can imagine that, with a much lower ceiling.

i knew it was a long voyage. i am not a sailor. i had no real benchmark for it. i thought about something as voyages i could measure it by. in 1620, the pilgrims came over on the mayflower. it took them 60 days. in 1993, the golden venture was at sea for 120 days before it arrived here. the circumstances were dire. tb -- 10 people died. they then get here, if they make it here, and have some one. a gun at their face -- someone point a gun at their face. when people find a safe house, it looks like hostage-taking. as often as not, they had trouble finding witnesses who would cooperate. the passengers would say, it was not really hostage-taking.

this was a contract. i knew, going in, that i was risking my life. i knew i would 0 this enormous amount of money. i knew they might told me at gunpoint. if i welch on my debt, they will find it is much more expensive, they go out of business, and that is a loss for everyone. there is a very proud and -- pragmatic way -- this is clearly legal. it is unquestionably exploitative. they're paying much more than the actual cost of getting here. it is very risky and hazardous. they go into it with their eyes open. to give you an example that illustrates that fairly well -- >> you mean illegal. >> did i say legal? friday morning. those little distinctions really

matter. when she was apprehended and tried in 2005 -- this is when i began looking into the story. she was one of the most wanted asian organized crime figures that the fbi -- it was a big landmark case. in chinatown, in new york, she was considered a hero. to this day, you can go to the eastern part of chinatown where the people are from, and she is venerated. i went to china, her problems, and it was the same thing. people regard her not as an exploitative figure. people often use the term "robin hood" to describe her. i always thought ". tubman" might be a better analogue in that case. she got very wealthy doing this. you're in hazardous territory when the estimate the numbers. the fbi estimates she made $40

million doing this over the years. that was all tax-free, so that is $80 million to you and me. this issue, i think, is one that we should be thinking about more than we are. that circumstance -- it happens not just in the chinese context, but in the mexican context. it happens throughout asia. europe, japan. there is a global, migrant worker population, which is unveiling its of of these services to move from place a, to place thb. there is a lot of confusion even in the un in the international organizational level in figuring out if these people are criminals. these people who are doing it with free will. are they victims?

at what point did they go from being criminal to being a victim? could they be both? i will give you to go more points and then wrap up. in some ways, this might be an academic question with regard to china. there are huge numbers of people coming from southeast china to the u.s. -- this was during the 1980's to the 1990's. you often hear 50,000 to 100,000 per year. the vast majority have come by my -- by regular migration. if you went to china, -- it would be like if you went to china and all the americans you mature from rhode island. the numbers started tailing off. the economy picked up to a point

where there were factory jobs -- plentiful jobs in the manufacturing sector. since the advent of the economic crisis, that has changed. a lot of those factory jobs have disappeared. we've seen a big internal migration away from the east coast with many people leaving and going back to their villages. internationally the attitude has been that if people want to go back to where they came from -- because this is a very integrated system -- sure enough we started seeing the stories come out. border officials in mexico were perplexed because there was suddenly a tenfold spike in the number of chinese they were apprehending coming across for mexico. it remains a significant issue. i will leave you with one last trend. i think this is especially troubling. this is something that the senator mentioned earlier -- the children.

the devilish question of how you construe free will for a child. i have been in touch with a number of pro bono attorneys who work in new york' city. they had started seeing a large number of kids who are sent by their families. their families reach out to the snakehead, pay the fee, send a kid. the kid does not necessarily want to come. they will work to the back of the restaurant and send money home. they're trying to say, look, this is a smuggling situation. they are paying the snakehead, who is a smuggler. this is the trafficking situation. in what realistic sense 1014- year-old make that kind of determination -- can of 14-year-

old make that kind of determination? i hope that provides some discussion. thank you again for having me. >> thank you for being here today and presenting your thoughts. you have raised more questions than you have answered. you have raised a really interesting questions, as have some other witnesses, on the subject of smuggling vis a vis trafficking vis a vis forced labor. there was a report in 2005 that at least 12.3 million people work as slaves or other forms of forced labor. an antislavery activist and author of a book called "disposable people," says that, in 1850, a slave would have cost

over $140,000 today. today, slaves worked on the ivory coast, some as young as nine years old. it would set you back as little as $30 today. they are considered disposable. it is something i wrote in the context of a forced labor. he made the point that forced labor is a problem much much larger -- in terms of the number of people -- much larger than the sex trade. you have raised the question of free will, not just in the sex trade or the export of the sex trade, but the free will of those who engaged with someone who will smuggle or traffic them into this country, not necessarily for forced labor.

it is easy to engage people and have them involved in forced labor or smuggling or trafficking or baking or any number of things -- baiting and -- begging or any number of things. the problem goes beyond china. we have been very critical of china in this commission and the work we do in this congressional -- in this congressional committee. we keep thie most correct and complete data base of chinese political prisoners and human rights prisoners in the world. our database is the one that people look to.

it appears that china recognizes the problem. they have begun to take steps to address the problem. for that, we say, that is good news. the implementation of it and the enforcement of it are quite different. the folks who have spoken today raised all kinds of questions about what is forced labor, what is free will, what is smuggling, what is trafficking. thank you for bringing your interesting presentations. i would like to call on you for the first question. we have a microphone. this young lady works with our commission. she is a researcher on him and trafficking. let me ask her to ask the first question. we would like to open this up. any of you can come to the microphone. we will begin our robust discussion. as i indicated, i will have to

leave at the first end of the first hour. >> thank you. i agree that you have raised more questions than you probably have answered. that will lead to a very vibrant discussion. i have questions, but i will just pick one for now. if we have extra time, maybe i will come back up. i want to start with patrick. you had mentioned the desperate circumstances that people are under in china. the risks that they take in the incredible fees that they pay -- they want to get out for many reasons. which is focused on economic reasons. what other factors have you noticed in your research or observations that are pushing people to take such leaps of faith and risk to come out of

china? have you noticed any other factors driving this? >> guess. -- yes. this gets into a tricky terrain. people flee and pay to flee because they are experiencing persecution of one sort or another. religious persecution. there are many instances of people having run afoul of the one-child policy, wanting to have multiple children. the policy is enforced selectively. it gets down not just to province by province, but the village by village. you have those instances as well. what makes this exceedingly difficult to parse is that even

the economic migrants ask for asylum once they get here. they are smart enough to know what the criteria they should be touting are. in any 10 potential assigned these -- asylees, say they are fleeing the one-child policy. they're similar to -- their stories will sound similar. the excruciating aspect of this is that -- i am making these numbers up. if you had to generalize, nine of them are telling the stories because they think it is a good shot of getting asylum, and one thinks it is true. this makes the task of immigration judges and asylum officers incredibly difficult. they are not in a great position to do fact-finding in terms of the situation on the ground.

the brief answer is that there are a range of forms of persecution that drive people to leave. parsing out exactly how prevalent those cases are is complicated by the fact that, with the encouragement of the snakeheads, the economic asylum seekers will come and drag themselves in the mantle of these other claims. >> children were going outside of the one-child policy -- who are born outside of the one- child policy -- because of that policy, is there more of an incentive to gore's parents to sell their children -- to coerce parents to sell their children? has it been incentivizing the trafficking in children, especially? >> i do not have any information

on that, but there may be others in this room who could answer that. >> open for questions. who has observations or questions? feel free to come to the microphone. >> thank you. i have a question for all panelist. we talk about him and trafficking -- about human trafficking. as we know, for some areas, this practice is particularly active in sex trafficking. are there social political and cultural practices that promote

this smuggling? >> before i answer that, could i say that, in the empirical world, in the real world, and i am portraying a bias here for facts, often smuggling and trafficking get intermingled. there distinct legal categories. you can imagine an indictment of someone for smuggling. the cultural fuel to trafficking in southeast and eastern asia, which is becoming one region for the illegal labor market, is fueled by the subordination of women, for offices that denied -- throughout the societies, the

legal status, the marginal legal status of internal migrants, and the marginal, social status of internal migrants. . >> so and our own system we have complementa)y social aspects that fuel the receipt and use of

illegal labor in the united states. the inattention to labor laws by the government, and those are the cultural and makelegal facti would look to. >> i would point out to end agree with you and all other respects, but i want to point out one social cultural factor which is the continuity of this. in east asia and east southeast asia there has been some tradition that if you are a daughter you need to sacrifice

yourself to support your parents. the history of modern china and going back to decades ago there has always been a dire situations, for instance, in some famines and so on and the+ parents will be likely to sell their daughters for prostitution. in southeast asia that there has been researched and that shows that the daughters are encouraged by the parents to go into the sex trade and, because the daughters to think if they do this for their parents, than they will trigger a good karma. meaning in the next light they will be born into wealth wealthier family. -- meaning in the next life they will be born into wealthier families.

>> basically i am trying to say for southeast asia and the 18th- century began to seek people migrating to southeast asia. from the 17th century, and 18th- century we had acted thinkers across southeast asia. now you begin to seek cuban trafficking in north america. this is the one case of historical cultural practice. the other example i want to say is -- >> questions are not statements. -- questions, not statements. >> my question is primarily directed for dr. waahn.

you said in your statement the an pearman for civil society organizations such as illegal sex trade was not supportive. i think those were your words. i remember in the opening remarks it was mentioned the government recognizes all of these things as problems in china. i am wondering why with the government not welcome the help in dealing with these sorts of problems? when is the reason for lack of support? thank you. >> from our perspective we mostly work on the health issue. we keep good relations with we had difficulties of

exploiting human trafficking and sex industry, because otherwise we have a conflict. the managers may not come to work. the other issue is that from a health perspective, to enabling health workers to work. if we work on the human trafficking issues, the government would launch this. and that is definitely an issue. from ou) perspective -- we believe that to handle the

criminal activities, tracking issues, child prostitution in a government process is not enough. we need to manage working relations among networks, among people. it is difficult for an organization like us to work on trafficking issues. government crackdown on our organizations relating to funding issues and also involvement on human rights issues relating toward those populations. >> i am representing the claras project.

my knowledge is basically in domestic trafficking. i was hoping to speak a bit about the institutional mentality in china toward labor in general, especially factory labor where you see a lot of that exploitation, and also the actions that can be taken that the chinese government response to the most, for instance of broadening the traffic falls laws. >> i do not know if i can speak to a chinese mentality or the government, and then not sure those because they're very complicated. there are huge forces recently in china recently emerging that are creating rule of law situation that is important, and

see if labor law book that broadly. that is quite a work in progress. i also know that this is very difficult to keep apace in a legal sense with the hyper system at trafficking. mr. keef described how nimble these traffickers are and what the profits are on labor trafficking. i would imagine there the same on sex trafficking. the level of the ability at these snakeheads and agents and the escorts and the occasional

people that just get a cell phone call and pick someone else and take them to appoint a from point b is astounding. that is the inherent problem, and it is also a problem because asia, where this is one labor market you have all of these jurisdictions. in thailand and the victims are in china and united states, how does any one person, any one local prosecutor ever did air route around that? i think there is a real puzzlement, not only in china, but in the united states on how to deal with that, but there is a broad consensus that it is a growing problem and it needs to be addressed with vigorous prosecution. that is why i say to three countries, one problem. >> thank you, mr. brown. please. >> this question is for mr.

brown. the past couple of months we about the issue of child labor in china. you talk about the issue with enforcement problems in china. we all know there are some pretty good loss on the books that protect workers' rights. how do you think the chinese government can make inspections of facilities more rigorous, and what role the you think n.g.o.'s can facilitate this process? >> i just want to take a couple of seconds to preach a little bit, and i hope i will be forgiven. i think the problem of trafficking, as i say, depends on the complementary parallel legal gaps in the sending

country and the receiving country.ú it is very hard to take a superior attitude and instruct people about how they should -- what goals they should attain. ommon problem, butould attain. i think that's because the trafficking and the labor market the downtick to remain the distinction between the factory work in the economic downturn uptick in labor migration into the night it states and europe it is an extremely responsive market, and no bureaucracy, prosecutor, the labor ministry, no inspector -- you cannot begin

to hire another. i would urge the 40,000 unemployed lawyers and manhattan be put to work and prosecutions and we increase the labor inspector, even if you're absorbed everyone, you would never be nimble enough. that is why you need grass- roots n.g.o.'s and labor unions. >> thank you. please. >> i have a question for dr. john. this year there live. -- this year there was a seven month strike campaign to focus on human crimes, including human trafficking.

she met trafficking and also the issue of sexua -- has there beeo consider those workers that our traffic or anything in terms of discussions over these campaigns to be more considerate of these troubles? >> thank you. any difference in policy from night original research, which was 1997.

as i mentioned to you in my talk, and recommendation -- my recommendation would be a line of talks between government officials and organizations to identify victims who were traffic into the sex trade. i think that is the most effective way to access the expertise, because these communities, they know everything. they ask them questions. if people were forced into the sex trade, the workers who were voluntary there would definitely know ahead of time or before anyone else. i think there is a little undersáanding about these women's real lives but policy- makers and officials and social workers and so on. i think it is not only a problem in china. i think in many countries around the world there has been this issue of confusion or completion

between prostitution, traffickers, and thinking of these women as victims instead of agents. that is the basis for collaboration between the "t thank you. i am going to ask a question of mr. keif. trafficking knows of no regional corporate jewel bounds. our government has made serious efforts. we now have a trafficking person's office at the state department. we had implementing legislation. we had implementing legislation. we have also hadu9no carrierri0

can you talk about how the implementation level, how we can do it better in the united states? >> sure. it is a big issue. i would echo what you have senad about promising trends in terms of the u.s. putting resources behind this and taking it seriously as an issue in coming up with mechanisms to look out for victims of trafficking. one thing i will say about how it plays out at the local level is that i think when these types

of businesses are risher arise,d they seem like businesses it in a certain ethnic neighborhoods, they tend to catch law- enforcement by surprise. the case in new yorke , and i'm certain you can generalize this, what happened was that in the late 1980's a series of kings began to become much more prominent in new york and there's a lot of violence associated with that. the snake's head business was there were a lot of businesses that were really the state house situation i described earlier.

the police and says my cousin is here, she is being held somewhere in queens in the basement and they have said they will cut his feet off if we do not pay at this amount of money and this amount of time. initially the issue was that law enforcement did not really understand where the area was. chinatown had always been a predominantly cantonese place. they were actually pulling the "t!ecause they could predict whn the fbi got involved, they would get title-brief wiretaps and not have eveing anyone that could listen to them. we have someone that is reluctant to agree with law- enforcement.

what happens is the person in question, the snakehead, the gangster, it's arrested and then pays the bill and goes out and goes back into the neighborhood. coming from an environment in china in which corruption is occasionally an issue in the police force, to the immigrant that has not been here very long and is terrified about revenge of some sort, the spectacle of cooperating and out to come back into the neighborhood was terrifying. there was just a big learning curve in terms of law enforcement getting to know the people in the neighborhood and community, and learning the language and culture and also the community being educated about u.s. law enforcement and "tgroups and who was there for u and to co'trast. -- and who you can trust.

you need to a bill yourself of all of the available resources, but i think that is the only way in this country we will be able to deal with this problem. not to set the top-level policy- making, are really down on the ground in the streets in the community's. >> thank you. please. >> my name is steve marshall, and i work for the commission. this has been enormously helpful in trying to understand the problem. it is all this sleet -- obis the multilayered and easy to conflating sensible fight them. not in the u.s. or other countries, where is the breakthrough point on this? we have very strong economic issues in this. we have governance issues. we have legal issues, but if we are watching what is happening are watchingant tois happening

understand where is the place that is most important to have change take place that will have a ripple effect on how and continuing, what should we watch for and the courage? this obviously that something -- is something that any of the panelists will have something to say about. >> i think there are many channels. government dialogue on policy. and other issues, i think, social aspects. there are many migrant workers in china, so layoffs might be good to reach out in the populations. labor organizations can work

with migrant workers. especially i want to mention that ethnic minorities. government has many migrant worker organizations. recently the chinese government, the ethnic committee, has passed new policies encouraging social organizations an" ethnic communities. i think it is time to help migrant workers in women's organizations, especially among migrant populations. so that is my perspective. >> do think observers should be

focused on civil society and whether it is able to do its job? >> yes. our organizations work with broad communities. we can observe what is going on, but we also have a conflict because we need to establish a good relation with networks of so the general purpose is to help migrants. one day we will be able to work on the trafficking issues. >> i think we're almost near the close. i want to thank everyone for being here. i hope you will visit the china commissions website at

www.ccc.gov. you can get on our mailing list. this has been an extraordinarily interesting panel. i want to thank all of you. we have a lot of ph.d.'s here. an outstanding group. i appreciate. thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010]

>> i am not saying senator mitchell's report is entirely wrong. i am saying brian macanese statements about me are wrong. i have never taken steroids. >> with roger clemens indictment for falsely testifying under oath to congress, go back and walked all the hearings on line at the c-span video library. all three, every program since 1987. -- all free. >> it is history week on "book tv" prime time.

peter man call in the final journey of henry hudson searching for the northwest passage. david hackett fischer and the life of chmaplain. -- champlain. >> join us this week as washington journal takes a special in-depth look at defense today we kick off the series on the discussion of the aircraft tomorrow mraps. thursday, military pay and benefits. friday we wrap up the series with a look a rehabilitation programs offered to wounded veterans. "washington journal" live every day at 7:00. general william caldwell is the

mission for afghan security forces. he briefed reporters today abouá the progress of that mission, including a new emphasis on the literacy at trainees and efforts to cut down on attrition rates within the forces. pentagon from kabul. this is about an hour. >> of course we are currently working with, the number is 115,000 regular policemen. we estimate right now, and it is our jjt to help train the police that about 70% of them have had

formal training that we did recognize from the police academy or military basic training facility. that is really of the nature of the challenge we have is to see how we develop them to a level that we would recognize in a western country or even in a regional countries here in central asia. >> general, where do you need to be a year from now if nato forces begin to draw down and afghanistan? >> well, it is an interesting question. i am just about to finish up my year-long tour in afghanistan and as i reflect the state at the police was then and the achievements we have been able to accomplish up until now, i am pretty optimistic about where the police will be. when i got here, there is not a lot of growth going on.

we were quite a challenge along with partners in the international community to provide professional training that the police force needs to change the way they protect the public. the future was not necessarily that would be provided by the international community and the united states to make that happen. si'ce i have arrived, there have been a tremendous number of changes. support that comes from the u.s. government and president, said in terms of the mobilization of the international community support, specifically in the types of courses that we need here. we rely heavily on courses like the french armory, the italian force, the spanish force, or closely with the type of police that afghp's need to provide civil order and response to the counter insurgency.

it has been interesting to see this work develop. as i look ahead one year, and i had just handed over to my successor, i think we're on a pretty impressive track, albeit not without collegechallenges. to give them a better ability to stabilize forces and look after their policemen than they have been able trhu'til now. i see every day the (jjt)qq'ce growing in the police. we're beginning to see a turnaround in terms of the public perception of the police, and we want to stimulate and reinforced this as we go forward.

>> general, if you could speak about what type of training these police forces are getting from you and from other folks there, what type of wage do they ç office? ç office? howmáaúe]@6)sçojwwrcle,8®no ca0 it is a model that the former minister of interior has sai" about the change by creating a new national police strategy. that is the roadmap that sets the course for the next five years.

it takes account of the nature of the culture and the nation that reflects a lot more globalization, but attention between a modern state or portion of the state that is becoming more modern and a very traditional in rural states. there is a challenge in making those things balance out. the wage of the police force has been a challenge in the past, and none of those soldiers have necessarily been paid a living wage, at which they could "tsupport families with. through this past year and with the support of the international community, we were able to increase the wage by almost 30% õand provide additional incentive pay i -- and additionl incentives. it may not necessarily just be where it needs to be, but

certainly at a level which is comparable to other people. the training has been, i think, the biggest investment we have made however. thpá starts with recognizing that every policeman needs to have basic training before he puts on a uniform, but the badge on his uniform and carries a gun on to a checkpoint or to a community on patrol. this has never been the case before. the level of the training with afghanistan police was very low. they would not actually be allowed to carry out any duties until they have demonstrated they know what their duties are. there really know a little bit about human rights and they understand a very significant structure within which they have

personal responsibility and accountability score. that is just for the basic patrolman. the real turning point will be to provr"e their leaders with a very comprehensive level of police professional education, which really have not seen in afghanistan for about four years. >> is the hon. to be a policeman and afghanistan? >> i think it has great potential to be honorable. i use the parallel to what we have seen develop in a afghanistan national army in the past several years. when we helped recreate the afghanistan national army and did the government of afghanistan in 2002, they were not held in high esteem or respect of the population. this is a populatijz that had been beaten up in civil wars, a press under the soviet regime, and so the soldiers were associated with a level of lack

of freedom, which we would not accept in any western democratic society. they have been able to demonstrate to people that their focus is on the defense of the nation and reflecting an identity and áq&f-esteem that people are really starting to turn to. we're seeing the recruiting members and the army surged as a result. the army is growing very quickly. the po&ice is just slightly behind. about five or six years behind respect. with the recognition of having to change the focus of the police to be much more dedicated to looking after the people is the start point to be able to change the public perception. people are more and more encouraging their sons into a limited extent their daughters police. it happens much more in the local communities where you tend

to be associated with your own police. a little bit less in terms of national police forces that are spread further out across the nation. >> we will get to phone calls here. greg in savannah, georgia. you are on the air. h caller: my question is what can the american people do to support more and give you what you really need? guest: thank you for your support. all of us feel very deeply for what we're doing. i do not know if it is much

more that can be done, but the recognition that everyone should have this will take some time to have the afghans with any to be. it may not necessarily be by 2011 or 2012. i think we need to have an extended time line where we can õalways see the progress and gan confidence that the treasure and the sacrifice that we're all making is actually paying off in making allies of afghanistan's better every day. host: we're talking with major general board on training at the st. petersbu)g, jim on the republican line. caller: my name is jim and i have been a republican for more than 20 years. this really seems like another vietnam. i perceive that as soon as you

leave, all of these people that were lined with you will be in big trásq host: when you say big trouble, what do you mean? caller: i do not think they will be alive. i think most of the people in that part of the world know who their real enemy is, and that is the united states. unfortunately, because being a republican for much of my life i was right wing republican. for example, i was in chile eight months ago. host: we will have to leave it there our time is limited. taliban intensified attacks against afghan police. general, the calder said that these police forces will be targeted. that is the headline in the papers as well. can you speak to that?

guest: we have been well aware that the police have been the target of the taliban. there were over 700 killed and a line of duty. in comparison, afghanistan national army lost about 300 and in the coalition forces 175. any respect, but it does highlight afghanistan national police are the ones out on patrol 24 hours per day, seven days per week. what it really does underscore provide them with leadership they're really neat, we're not helping the government of

afghanistan or those individuals that risk. that is what makes this to the very best we can in and make sure they understand what the mission is and they will be confident when they're faced with tough situation, which in the past might have resulted in catastrophic casualties, both for the police and the people they were supposed to protect. i think all of us, military and police professionals in afghanistan, that would be the benchmark to make sure we're doing the %ob we were sent out here to do. host: and q&a you were asked about if you had all of the money in the world to put towards this problem, where would you focus that money? at your asks, is the quality of police recruits improving? if you could take that money and put it towards the improvement

of police recruits, and this also person ask you find this taliban making attempts to infiltrate the police ranks? guest: i think in terms of if we had more money to invest in afghanráup' national police, i would spend it in a couple of different places. right now we already have earmarked a lot of money to expand the training centers and provide better trained instructors. will be really want to do, however, is raise the littllevef literacy. in this country, which underwent the civil war of 15 years to 20 years of erasion that closed down schools and schools that stay close and did the taliban, we have a generation of adults in this country who cannot write their own names, and not read an identity card and could not

identify the symbology on a license plate and cannot do the basic job we want them to do as a policeman. we want them to invest and literacy that would make their people proud of them, and that in the eyes of their public wha would have the self-esteem o carry out their duties that are already tough to do in afghanistan. the other would be to invest in the quality of life. it is difficult to get by in terms of being sent to very remote places in thing there for a long amount of time and not seeing their families and providing them access to better recreation funds that they can get home on leave. they can spend time and look after their families and stabilize the force. we do conduct polls with police t$at continue to serve and occasionally with those who left the course to better understand what motivates them and what has

caused them to leave. all we do find is that they're tremendously patriotic and they really do feel identify with the job they have been asked to do. on the other, and i do not think this is unique to afghanistan, they have to somehow balance family commitments, tribal commitments and sometimes the balance is too tough to achieve. we know in our own armed services that we all have to make these stresses as well. if our nations are looking after our interests, and make sure beforehand. i think this will be one of the hallmarks of success in the futurq they will want to join and stay with the military, police force because they fee& looked after, it feel appreciated by their own people, and the jobs they do are the jobs that are important to afghanistan.

host: jeffrey on the independent line. caller: i am a little confused. i hear about the economy and how we have to invest in this country and get jobs in this country. bpwhen i hear this great mission we're taking on overseas and training police forces and doing everything over in afghanistan, my question is along the lines of when this effort began in the middle east it was a coalition of the willing. i am wondering how much of this effort is the coalition and what percentage of u.s. dollars are going towards training, and how long is all of this supposed to go on? when i look oabout the information on this economy, i am wondering what percentage are we doing over the)e and what percentage are other allies

doing to help out over their? guest: it is a valid question. let me take it from a couple of different levelj. there are over 50 nations committed to either the security assistance force or the united nations and other efforts that are out going. you do see a lot of nations committed. you see a lot of those nations committing resources and people in keeping with their capabilities. some are obviously much better off than others. the united states is certain the first among equals. and is helping sustain a lot of the lesser efforts of nations who may not have a lot of money to contribute, but to have professionals they can deploy out here. that is the case with some of the police forces that we are assisting. the economy of afghp'istan is something that has potential,

the afghanistans do not necessarily have the ability to neceááp)ily regulate or develop those. they rely on assistance and the sectors as well. you get significant world bodies like the world bank or the red cross, lot of volunteers that float funds and to try to address aspects of societies that do not get done by us certainly. we're only focus on one specific aspect. i would say the enterprise of what the international community is committed in afghanistan is no carrierringconnect 1200 /bñ[:s[ño6kí)s[ñ

caller: i was in morocco. how do separate the military concept? and what is the mission on apprehension vs prevention? guest: which could use that kind of experience. in answer to your question, i would suspect it is unique in a lot of respects. in afghanistan if you were to

ask a policeman who wearis out n the district, what his job is, he feels his first priority is to be able to sustain its security around him whether it is at a checkpoint or on the corner. therefore, most of his skills are actually focused on what you might call paramilitary, but we would call it defensive skills. on top of that, we are to give them a balance in the training of law enforcement skills, which is a start point of what we want to think of as a career-long development of a policeman. when we started basic patrolman we're limited by the amount of time we can invest in, but our commitment is to bring them back into training within a year or two, and also to provide them continuous training out in their units, so they're always

focusing on improving their knowledge of what a policeman is all about. when you start from scratch, as we have had to do in afghanistan national police, and the training is better than no training, but we know that even the training we're able to provide them right now is a long way from where we would be comfortable. that is one of the focus areas to make sure we ca' get a lot of partners in. we work with the police in their districts and communities every day in to help them through the tough situation, mentor them through to successful law and order activities that produce public to be confident in their government. host: wall you are talking, we're showing footage of afghanistan police on the ground. "t"ifference and equipment that

these police officers get vs. u.s. soldiers and afghanistan soldiers. what are they allju$ur(p)ry around? guest: the police equipment is pretty basic. the police aspect of its they are issued a hbaton and handcuffs. they would have protection gear that is common on soldiers. that would be a ballistic fo vest, helmet, and some elements of a uniform that would be identified a coupable with the e force thpá they are. it is sufficient in this environment to protect them from the types of close combat or a tax that they find. we do spend a lot more money to

provide them armored vehicles, but aláz a lot more protection on their checkpoints and in their outposts. that was actually one of them as significant causes of nutrition in the past. host: program note for viewers, the pentagon is giving an update today on the training at afghanistan's security forces. also, the state department will get an update on the situation and pakistan when it comes to the floods. go to c-span.org for the schedule on windows will air. kathleen on the democratic line. you are on the air with general board. -- ward. caller: i had the honor of

getting to know a scholar in afghanistan. his father was a retired general from the afghanistan army and had fought against russia. him lots of questions -- they said the u.s. should have been dealing with the taliban really early on, bringing than the more modern taliban to the table to discuss issues. how are the people dealing with the taliban, and they also mentioned that several thousand the surrendered early on had been transported in convoy and left to die? have we ever apologize for that? guest: there are couple of different ideas here. on the issue at taliban being transported, i think this took

place seven or eight years ago during the northern alliance campaign against the taliban. that is the previous chapter at afghanistan history. i think what we're seeing is this is a society that has a tremendous number of veterans, if you will, but many who have different experiences. "tp#ghanistan national security force and worked alongside the soviets. some who were on different sides during the civil war. either on the taliban side or north and allianz sar". what they have had to do if they "tsigning on to support the s put the differences aside. there has not been a really truth and reconciliation process and afghanistan, but i do see, and has certainly met a lot of colleagues who work side- by-side everyday and are focused on moving toward and trying to get afghanistan back to a place

that it had been about 40 years ago before the soviets arrived and disrupted the balance. they all take tremendous risks to do that. i think it is difficult to establish trust and confidence in people who used to be adversaries, but second, the nature of the insurgency is designed to upset the current power politics. all of these people who are taking risks to help set up the nation are at rest every day. i think afghanistan is moving forward in a number of ways. an earlier caller expressed the sentiment that he thought afghanistan might fall back. there is always a risk of that happening. the commitment is to make sure that is not possible. we certainly rely on the courage and commitment to other people that have stayed here and those that are coming back from

foreign countries to help add to the intellect, skills, and to move the country forward. i think the young man you mentioned who was the scholar for afghanistan and the future. there is a tremendous amount of education they're getting and did they bring them back to afghanistan, each and everyone of them can make a difference. the future of afghanistan can be positive. host: we want to thank you for your time this morning. we have run ouá, but i want to thank you for joining us from afghanistan to talk about training of police forces. thp'k you for your time. >> more now on training afghanistan's security forces. earlier today, general william caldwell greek reporters about the progress of the mission.

including a new emphasis on the literacy of trainees and efforts to cut down on attrition rates within the forces. he spoke with reporters back at the pentagon. this is about an hour. >> general caldwell. how do you hear me? >> i have you loud and clear. how are you tonight? >> very well. we have you loud and clear at the pentagon briefing room. i would like to welcome back to the pentagon briefing room, lieuáenant general william caldwell. he is the commanding general of nato training mission afghanistan and the combined security transition command afghanistan. duties in afghanistan in november of last year and joins "tuj from the headquarters in te

cobblekabul to provide updates n training and national afghanistan force. we will try to get you a copy of comments afterwards. he also has a copouple of slide, which you have paper copies of and will be projected on the screen. we will let you get started. >> got morning from afghanistan. afghanistan. i am pleased to have this

they are not insurmountable. every day we witness the remarkable and resistant -- resilience character of the afghan people and the seat so

many -- it is committed to continuing our work alongside other afghan partners in tackling these tough issues. the three elements are required to build this professional force our leader development, literacy, and addressing it losses through attrition. the first and most important elements, leader development permit it is the enduring foundation that is so essential. our efforts to create professional officers in the army and police are focused on

quality training and developing experience and providing an appropriate education. it is only when leaders raise a culture of service to other spending afghan national security force will truly be a professional force. the second element is the literacy of soldiers and policemen. it is the essential in a blur. if you want to develop a professional force, we must take that on. when you consider the average literacy rate for an entry-level soldier, it is maybe about 14% across the entire force. literacy becomes a major challenge -- a policeman does

not know his numbers, how can he read and understand -- from equipment to personnel, regulations to training. the second challenge literacy addresses is developing branch competency for a professional military education. literacy provide soldiers the ability to attend these schools and law enabling skills, such as statistics, maintenance, and military intelligence. skills are required to sustain -- to sustain themselves in the field and throughout their career. these are the skills that must be ingrained in leaders that are the backbone of this force and will one day lead this army and

police force. finally, literacy combat corruption. literacy prevents bad actors from prank on the letter read. standards -- bad actors from preying on the alert. only when they read how much they are owed and how much they have received will they be able to prevent the fact of their own pay. they the creation of mandatory literacy courses of the past nine months, we have supported the professionals asian of the security force and educated many students. this will take time and did this and a sustained effort. if we are to educate an entire generation of afghans to the level necessary to create a professional force with leaders

that allow for the specialization to occur that is essential to their future development. are losseslement from attrition. these losses include desertions, death, and low retention. they pose a greatest threat to both quantity and quality of the afghan national security force. for example, based on current attrition rates, to grow the afghan forces, the additional 56,000 that are currently needed to meet the october 31, 2011, a goal of 305,000, we will need to recruit and train 141,000 soldiers and police. in order just to grow back to 56,000, we will have to recruit and train and assigned when under 41,000 police and soldiers.

-- 141,000 police and soldiers. in order to meet that goal, we will need to do all this over the next 15 months. approximately the size of the army that currently exist today. this is a challenge that must be met with concerted action by the afghan national security ministries, national force, a nato training mission afghanistan. each of these organizations have a responsibility for attrition and attention, either in the fields or in the institutional base. developing and entering and professional security force will take time. each aspect are elements that provide the continuity and the endurance to build, develop, and sustain the leaders and soldiers. these are the things that there

are no shortcuts for. facilities must be built and expanded. leaders must have the education, training, and experience to perform their duties. institutions must be developed. enablers like acquisitions, legislation, communicators, maintenance, these things must be created to support the ministries and the field and forces. systems must be developed to ensure the afghan national security force can fulfill their function each -- supporting each other. this requires a comprehensive approach to building, developing, and transitioning to the afghan security force. it takes time we must work to reinforce progress and reinvest

in our efforts to ensure we are using time as wisely as we are using our other resources. we have made significant progress the sheer inland the foundation to professionalize the afghan national security force beginning this year and well into next year. we are realistic about the challenges that lie ahead. we are also optimistic about what we can do together with our afghan partners to begin the process of transition as the afghan national security force takes the lead to protect and serve their people. but that, i will be glad to take any questions you have. >> general, when is your best estimate as to when afghan troops can take over any portion of the country? is that going to happen? if not, why? >> transition is a process and

continues on for a long time. it happens in little segments. a great example is -- currently, it is being led mostly by coalition forces, but with the afghan instructors there, we have putting through a train the trainer program so they can take the lead. with the class that just ended a month ago, our goal is by the time they graduate in december, the next class starts in january, they will have the lead and we will step back as they take the lead for that course. you know, i think is important to understand. it does not happen at one time. training is transition. it will continually occur. we will see it in many different

areas. as rapidly as we can get the afghans in there that will be the future instructors, at both the validation of today are and then put them in the lead and observe them as they take that responsibility on, that will enable us to a transition that aspect of it to the afghans. the whole thing will take time, but we are encouraged by signs that we have seen. >> i understand that it will take time. certainly, there has to be some prediction as to when afghan soldiers will be in the lead and certain portions of the country -- when with the afghan start to take the lead in certain parts of the country? >> again, i think -- we have not

even finished building the afghan national army or the air force or the police force. all the key enablers, things like logistics, maintenance, transportation, intelligence, none of those organizations have yet been built and brought on line and connected with the current force. our focus was, at this -- this was very infantry centric. you have elements out there that can operate in the lead, they cannot operate independently yet because they do not have these enablers that would support them. what our intent is to balance this course by bringing on those other capabilities. if somebody says, when will these security courts have the lead in a particular area, we

will not have finished building the entire army until october of next year. in small isolated pockets, it does not mean they do not have the lead. to say that they will be able to do much more before october of next year would be stretching it. we have not finished the development of their force. >> can you please update the number of afghans deserted after the training? >> i am sorry. i had difficulty hearing the question with some of the interference here. could you repeat the question for me? >> the number of afghan soldiers

deserting after training or during service. afghans coming from faraway places have problems going back home and then coming back to rejoin their duty. >> if i understand the question, the soldiers that we have recruited from around kabul that have been sent elsewhere to serve, how did they get back to take a leave and see their families? is that the correct question? >> i will take a shot year from the lectern. desertion numbers from afghan soldiers during their service and during their training and also the second part of the question had to do with having soldiers serve at distances from home. how are they able to take leave and return back to their unit?

>> ok. obviously, at -- the endemic enemy of our ability to professionalize this course is when we see losses through attrition. the desertion is a part of that factor. desertions, those being killed or wounded, and those who completed the service and elect not to continue serving -- serving. we do watch that very carefully. it is a concern to us. but we have just instituted about three weeks ago on a two- year contract to put into place is the ability for but the afghan national army and the police to request an schedule flights before units so that if they want to go from somewhere down in the south, they can chartered airplane that will go down and pick up soldiers and

bring them back to koppel. we have a designated transition location at the -- kabul. once we assemble a certain number, we will get another chartered airplane and return them back to their airplane -- there location. that had previously not been in effect. it is very new. we are hoping that it will enable us to get past some of these attrition issues. >> how does your timeline of october next year match up with president obama as well as to start reducing some american soldiers by july.

what steps have been taken to improve -- >> de groot's development plan that we have currently put in place is based on a couple -- that we have currently been emplaced is based on a couple of pac -- factors. we have doubled or tripled almost all of the capacity both in ability to train both army and police forces inside afghanistan. that was a major step forward. it has enabled us to move this process a little faster. the influx of trainers was critical. we had a very severe shortage of trainers last november. it has been increased by three or four fold since that time. we still need some additional

trainers. as we project based upon the current growth plans of our training facilities and the trainers that we have on hand, our projection is that by october 2011, we can make those growth objectives. we are aware that the president of the united states has talked about that he wants to have the ability to look at and make a decision around july 2011. general petraeus has been very clear. various aspects within the institutional base already trade -- institutional base already. we take those resources and invest them into other training aspects of what we are doing

inside the country here. we are aware of the date. petraeus is -- has said that is the start of the process based on conditions on the ground spread by october of 2011, we can make the current growth objectives which are afghan counterparts as we move forward. if that helps. >> the second question? >> how do we screen them before they come in? is that what you're asking? >> thad allen methods changed -- have your methods changed or improved in any way? >> here is what i would tell you.

with every renew -- with every new recruits coming in, and they go through a test. by matching testing includes fingerprints, the visual picture-taking, all put into a data base. they have to come with two letters of recommendation attesting to their good standing of supporting the government and the people of the afghanistan. all that is kept into a data base. it through that process, that is how we initially screened them against anything that might already be in -- might already be nd biomet check data base. we watched them very carefully in the initial phases of trading. oliver trainers are attuned to that somebody in who might -- might always try to infiltrate into the air force.

we all stay very attuned to it and look for that kind of thing. once they get into the field, that is something they pay attention to. we are in a war zone and everybody remains vigilant all the time. it is crazy to -- be " aware and look around at your surroundings. we picked up a recruit at three weeks ago out west to turn out to be a pakistan/taliban infiltrator. he has now been turned over to afghan authorities. we are aware of the intent by people to try to do that kind of infiltration. >> general caldwell, can you talk about -- if you have such a high attrition rate, where are

these soldiers disappearing to? are you finding that any of them are joining the adversaries? does that indicate bad to the compensation is still is not where it needs to be to be able to retain the soldiers that you need? can you be specific about how much of the shortage you still have of trainers and mentors, please? >> if we knew where those two have left the force of 92, -- force when two, up we would have to go back and bring them back under their military control and their police control. we really do not know where they go to, to be completely honest. it is very difficult to track over here. that thear very often

president of afghanistan has stated that he thinks a lot of them are being hired off by private security companies and other elements like that. if you take a young soldier who has gone to 17 weeks of intense military training and becomes a soldier in the afghan army, he has developed some skill sets. he is a far better person after 17 weeks the day he entered. the president of afghanistan may be very accurate. i suspect that he has much better information than we do in terms of where they may go to. that was something we had all been working for several months is too high to get everybody in sight of the private security companies and establish and see if there was something like that going on. as far as the trainers go, currently today, we have the

requisite number of trainers that we need to accomplish the mission. we have an additional soldier. as we bring nine more branch schools -- those are just learning to become online. those will acquire more specialized trainers. we have identified those numbers. there is a conference at the end of next month at nato to specifically discuss those in greater detail and look for nations to pledge against those and to provide people. it is going to be critical for us.

>> general, i would like to ask you about the local village defense forces modeled on what was done. the training for those forces, about remain solely it done by special operations forces or will your command be involved? what is the growth estimates for how many of those a village defense forces would like to see? how will those forces interact with the existing national security command structure with the existing police and army? >> is that what you want me to discuss? >> i keep hearing them described in different ways.

>> ok. the definitive name is the afghan local police. that will be the name of it. the decree that president karzei just signed will allow us to be rep -- 10,000 to be recruited. it does not mean that there will not be more later. what we do know is that it is really not going to change the face of security on the country on the national level. it could have a real tremendous effect locally. it has the potential to affect and the security forces that are already operating out there in different areas around the country. right now, the ministry of interior is working the procedural guidelines that stipulate how this force will operate. here are things that we do know. it is going to be under the afghan government control. it will be paid for by the

afghan government. there will be a deputy district police chief established in each of the districts where these things will be designated to be formed that will provide the oversight and management directly into the force. they will receive some communications gear and transportation here. there will be completely defensive in nature and will have no offensive capability. those are some of the key critical steps that president karzei is directing. he has directed that they must be implemented so that he has assurance that his government and the ministry of interior has absolute control over the formation of these forces. there is about 30 different districts they're looking at right now in the planning process. they would fit in any security forces that are located in that

approximate area. since they are under the control of the afghan government, they will work together as one team. >> your command to be involved in the training of these forces? >> we are not going to be involved in the training that those forces will receive. again, the ministry of interior is working on the final procedures, but the current plan calls for that to be handled by the special operation forces that will conduct the training for that localized group. >> you said that you track attrition rates very closely. what is the exact attrition rate? are you getting a handle on drug abuse within the police and the military?

>> i can talk both attrition rate numbers and the drug use. i will start with the drug use. same kind of reporting -- between january of this year until this past month, we conducted a personal assets inventory of all the police in this country. we did data collection on every single policeperson. we got about 97% force at this point. in doing that, we did drug testing, too. what came back and was a surprise to us was that the actual drug use on average across the force was about 9%.

in certain areas, it was much higher. in other areas, it was much lower. the average across the force was about 9%. it is a concern to the ministry of interior. he set up water to drug rehabilitation treatment facilities -- one or to drug rehabilitation facilities. he understood that there was a need to specifically address that issue. if we are going to build a professional force, drug use is something that cannot be tolerated while they are serving on duty. we instill in the training base. the more that unites are partnered with but the police and the army, they are able to help with behavior modifications.

in a professional force, it is not acceptable. as far as attrition rates, i can get some numbers for you specifically. generally, in the army today, it is about 23% across the afghan national army for this last year. it is a march to march timeframe. within the afghan national police, it was about 16%. within the police, you have three major sub components. you're the afghan national police, the uniformed police, and her border police. in the afghan national police, the attrition rate is unacceptable. right now, it is about 47%.

we first started addressing that specific attrition issue, it was at 70%. they will have to reduce the attrition within the afghan national police. there is an ongoing effort there to do that. from working at their pay -- we established a living wage and brought the base pay that would give them the the ability to lead at a basic level and take care of their families without having to turn to other needs to develop and come. we also added propane and -- pro-pay for areas that were considered hazardous areas.

we also added longevity pay. all pay modifications -- most recently, we also added pro-pay. you get an additional $50 a month. for each deployment, there is a bonus there that you also gets from the afghan government. we are working the kepis pretty diligently. the next one was the partnering. as much as possible, the more that we can partner with our afghan counterparts, we find that the attrition levels do go down. there are special ops guys that are currently partnered with the national police. they brought attrition down to almost nothing. it does have a real offense.

the last part is the predictability. that is establishing some kind of cyclical system for them for the national police said they have a time period where they train. they go out for 12-15 weeks at a time. when they come back, they had a period where they are guaranteed to take some leave and have some down time before they go into a training phase. all this goes back to -- if we are going to help them develop a professional force that is in during in self sustaining, it will be critical to start building into them leadership. to do that, we cannot have that kind of attrition. well-defined -- we are challenged with leader development when the attrition rate continued to rise. >> what is the current level of

national police? does that mean that half of the people you are training are dropping out? how are you going to reach that 2011 figure when you have these incredible attrition rates? >> you hit on one of the biggest challenges that we have been dealing with. from december to march, we tripled the capacity of how many afghan border police we could train. the recruiting is still coming along well. we are able to recruit the young men to come into the police. we have about 1200 that are graduating on a monthly average now. we did not have that before. we have about 5700 and before us today. by october 31, 2011, the force

is scheduled to built -- scheduled to grow about 18,500. that is our most significant challenge of all the growth. there is an intense effort to fully partner with each of the -- to ensure that we do establish some kind of predictability for them that has not been in existence before. we do believe in having -- and having watched a commando units, we have nine commando units that have a very low attrition rate. they have a predictable schedule. they have about comparable pay. they do have the parting with the special ops forces. of course, they have a good

predictable schedule. as they bring back on line, we would expect to seat but in the next three months that level of attrition start to drop off far more than it is today. we are watching it very closely. we have got to get to 18,000. the key thing is -- they are the premier force in this whole counterinsurgency campaign. they are the ones -- they want more of them because they find them to be the less corruptible. they are there to protect and serve the people. they are more attentive. they are the best and well- trained force that we have. they literally go through about four months of training. a regular police and goes

through about a month and a half of training. they had about three months more of training. during that four months, we really instilled in them that they are there to protect and serve the people of afghanistan bent and not to profit and be served. it is a key element in terms of professionalizing the force. the recruits that we get out are well motivated and ready to go. we just have to fix. >> i want you to go back to literacy. last december, you guys instituted new literacy classes. since then, how are we doing? what is the change in the rates? where did things stand today? how has it improved? >> we have come to realize --

has u.s. me last november, is literacy important? we are here to train soldiers and policemen. if they want literacy, they can do it on their own. but we have found, if we're going to professionalize this course, we have to take on literacy. last november, there was nobody in mandatory literacy programs. today, we have about 27,000 recruits at any given time in a literacy program. by may or june of 2011, we will continue as we have about 100,000 army and police recruits and literacy training programs. our intent is to give them

enough so that they have the ability to do certain key things, for the professional edition of the force. bring them to a third grade level. we do know that literacy is an essential in a blur of this whole professional is asian. if you bring literacy on line and you start to give them the ability to be able to read numbers and to write their names and do some basic reading, we start establishing accountability. that is critical. how do you expect a soldier to account for their weapon? it is really challenging for some people to fully appreciate how illiterate this population is. it does not mean that they did not have street since. but they did not have education. if we want to establish accountability to ensure that the money is being spent on

them -- is worth the investment, we have to fix their literacy rates. one of the things we have done is establish that accountability to ensure that everybody coming and does come up to some general level so they can read the serial numbers. if they are issued equipment, they can actually read the act and look at the equipment instead of being reliant on somebody else to do that for them. what we do not want to do is have them established dependency on somebody else. that requires a literate person. we are bringing on line 83-month literacy program so that those who have some degree of literacy -- if we're going to

professionalize this course, -- this course, they can do their job and do it in an independent manner. it eliminates corruption. when i arrived last year, one of the big push is going on was electronic funds transfer. there was systemic corruption occur in the country when bags of money were being taxed. the ideal was to set up an electronic funds transfer. today, there is about 87% of every soldier and policemen have electronic funds transfer in place today and functioning. many of us were feeling pretty good about what we had been able to keep pushing to make happen.

but then we found out but all we did was set up another level of corruption. haiti% of these young men cannot even read. -- 80% of these young men cannot even read. they do not understand what they're getting paid. they had 100 soldiers they were interviewing going through when checking and 90 of them reported they were not being paid. that was the real concern to us. if they dug into it while they were up there, what they found out was that soldiers had been paid. the money was in their accounts. but they had no ability to look

at a bank statement or read the atm machine to understand that had been paid. have they had some basic literacy training at some point, they would have known that. they would have been much more reassured that this government, the afghan government, and the ministry of defense, was taking care of them. this sets the conditions for a transition so that the coalition forces can start reducing their presence. we will have to take gone into some very basic levels of literacy with in this country. >> general, we are about 50 minutes in. i do not want to impinge on your time to much. how much time do you have to give us? >> i can take about another five minutes, i think. >> general, i want to go back

and clarify the attrition numbers. i was unclear. at one point, from march to march, it was 22% for the army. it was 16% for the police. but then you use the numbers of 40% and 70%. can you clarify the time frame? >> i apologize if i confused you. the attrition numbers i first throughout were for a 12-month period. i was trying to point out that some of the elements of the police force have been even lower attrition than that. there is another element -- again, there are only 5700 people when you look at the it doesn'tce -- really reflect well if you just look at the overall average. the number i talked about was

for a specific month. this past month. when i used the figure of 70% of attrition, i was taking their monthly attrition and analyzing its -- annualizing it. when i said the 70%, it was fairly high. this past month, it was down to about 47%. it had dropped some are. i did not want that to be hidden by the overall afghan national police patrician figures. >> right now, the attrition rate for the afghan security forces? >> the current attrition rates

today -- if we do the afghan national police in aggregate, the monthly attrition this past month was about 1.2% attrition. when you multiply it times 12, you get the annual figure, which would be about 40% or so. -- 14% or so. we call it art intimate enemy. we lose a lot of good leaders. -- we college are endemic enemy. >> was that a 23% that you're talking about? >> the attrition rate for the army? it was about 23%.

that fluctuates a little bit every month. for monthly attrition the number, that is obviously about just under 2%. >> general, i have a question for you about how much does it cost to train a soldier or a policeman and how has that cost changed since she added deprograms of literacy to the training program? -- since you added programs of literacy to the training program? >> i had actually never been asked that question before. i have not ever attempted to

really stop and figure out its -- i do not really have an answer for you on that one. i guess they could try to figure out what it might be, but i am not really sure. you have equipment, i know what we generally spend every month as an organization doing everything from building facilities to procuring equipment to do in the military training aspects. but i do not know specifically on individuals. i apologize he did not have that for you. -- i apologize i do not have that for you. i could tell you what the cost of not training. the cost of not training -- we will never be able to set the conditions for transitioning. as we move forward, we recognized there was not an

emphasis on quantity. and quantity is important. it is not something that you can do without. however, quality had to be brought into the force. it is imperative that it was. that is why we have done things like bring in the literacy training. the literacy training is inexpensive, relatively speaking. we are hiring all afghan instructors to do the literacy training. we have about to under 50 that we have hired at this point that are working -- 250 that we have hired at this point. we may get decent pay for those will be involved in the education of the security force. >> it sounds like it is being paid for by the united states. is there a concern on your part that the united states is

building up an army that the afghan government will not be able to pay for itself? >> the entire dp is about $10 billion a year you're in afghanistan. the -- gdp. the current security force that is being built will require the assistance in the international community for many years after the transition has been complete. these mineral deposits have all this great potential and could change the entire environment here overnight. what i do note from the american side is that the u.s. has made an enduring commitment to be supportive of and establish a

relationship with the government of afghanistan and the people of afghanistan. we call it a strategic partnership. we are committed to continue to help them sustain and maintain this forced out in the future. i do not know for how long, but there is a requirement that they will not be able to pay themselves out of their current gdp double require international assistance. -- that will require the international assistance. >> i will send it back to you for any closing remarks. >> we do have a website. we spend a lot of time trying to put everything on our website that we are doing. whether the decisions we made last november when we activated the native training mission, we established three in paris for ourselves. one of them is that we will --

the second one is transparency. 95% of everything we do we do and unclassified manner. it is available to whomever wants to see it. we post tremendous amounts of information on our website very specifically so that we have that transparency taking place. we have about 19 different nations that have soldiers who are part of our organization. we encourage them to go back to their host countries and tell them if they go to www.ntna -- it is not password protected or anything else. that is one of the key things we try to establish.

it is readily available to people. i do want to tell you, thank you for the opportunity to share this time with me today. the afghan national security force has really seen some real measured progress over the last nine months. i've seen a commitment by the afghan leaders that they will make sure the record numbers are there. they want to see this thing succeed. they want to see a professional force developed in their country. they know that it takes time to bring this completely online. we are looking toward october 31, 2011, to finish building the force. we will continue with the professionals asian of it, recognizing there are certain to -- professionalization.

if you have any questions, we would be glad to take them. i do not know if they would go through you, dave. i have a new director of communications. he is in charge of all of our communications here as we move forward. we would be glad to respond or answer whatever information you would want in the future. thank you very much. >> thank you, again. we will get all those questions to you. >> however you set that up. we will be glad to respond. >> thank you, sir. >> thank you very much, everybody. [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> join us this week as "washington journal takes a special in-depth look at defense issues. today, we kicked up the series with a discussion on the aircraft program. tomorrow, mraps. thursday, military pay and compensation. friday, we wrap up our series with a look at rehabilitation programs offered to wounded veterans. "washington journal is like every day at 7:00. -- "washington journal" is live every day at 7:00. >> it is book history week.

the life of the french explorer. book to be -- but tv in prime time, all this week on c-span2. >> we are all punt on a chess board. >> i because -- i come before this body to personally express again my sincere regrets about the encounter with the capitol hill police. >> i cannot walk away and have you guys do to the campaign because i am in . >> watch more on line and read about them on the video library. it is washington, your way.

>> as time ticks closer to the the november elections, various states continue their primary process. tomorrow, florida is among four states voting. we will look at the republican and democratic candidates. we will start our coverage at 8:30 p.m., live on c-span. three hours later, the focus is on arizona, where john mccain is battling the former house member j.d. hayworth for the republican nomination. c-span, your home for all campaign 2010 coverage. with more of the -- here is a segment from today's "washington journal." is about half an hour. " newspaper here to talk about the primary races tomorrow. let's begin with florida. here is the headline in "the wall street journal." wall street journal."