minority students in the u.s. education system. later, a military reporter will be our guest and he will discuss the use of mind---mine-resistant vehicles in afghanistan. this is "washington journal." . . . host: the numbers are on your

screen if you want to get involved in the conversation. send us an e-mail. or you can follow us on twitter. this is an item out of "the washington times."

guest: we have commen host: we have comments from dr. margaret hamburg.

guest: we're very anxious to see a piece of legislation being considered by congress be passed. there is an opportunity through this legislation to extend our authorities and resources and other important tools to do traced back of products and make sure companies have appropriate preventive measures in place and enable us to review records in our routine way. host: should the fda have more oversight regarding egg safety and other types of production? mark is on. caller: i think the fda should have more insight. you have to be careful when it involves all of this bacteria. in my personal opinion, i'd think this is coming from howard stern -- host: the next call is from

brooklyn, new york. good morning, dorothy. caller: this is my first time. host: what you think about exit date and should the fda have more oversight? caller: this is the chickens coming home to roost. the republicans keep saying no oversight. if the government does not do any oversight over anything, think of what state this country will be in. that is all i have to set for today. i watch you every day and i appreciate you putting on these subjects of the american people can see what is going on in the country. host: has the current situation may do hesitant to go out and i buy eggs? caller: i love eggs.

i serve them every day. i came from a country where my father grew up chickens. they were always fresh and ready to be eaten. i am shocked to see how that pack the chickens into such a small quarters and still expect everything -- everything as mass production here. host: would you like to hear from government that they are ok to eat? caller: they need to go in and check on them. host: terry on the line for republicans. caller: good morning. i grew up in iowa, and apparently on a farm that the soybeans were used at this farm. host: are you still with us?

in "politico." the food safety bill still stuck in the legislation.

host: next up is radcliff, arkansas. rick on the line for republicans. caller: as far as more oversight or power for the department of agricultural, we have way too much regulation already considering the huge number of suits you will never eliminate problems like the salmonella outbreak. i did we need to reduce government right now. host: al wood reducing government oversight make the food safer -- how would reducing government oversight make the food safer? caller: i count on the food to makpeople to make the food

safer. host: next up is that the republican line. good morning. terry, go ahead. caller: thank you for c-span. i grew up in madison county, iowa. madison county, iowa, has rowe's acres. it produces millions of eggs daily and is not part of the recall. they run an excellent business. senator chuck grassley has done a lot in this area to weed out the bad. i want to let -- reassure my fellow americans that most of

the eggs are siafe and and the fda does a good job in monitoring these chickens. it is just too bad the lawyers had given a bad name to iowa eggs. i just wanted to reassure americans that there are too stinkers out there that are trying to wreck a good name of iowa eggs. host: guestwhat is the differene way the eggs are associateproduh the ones you are associated with and the ones they are monitoring? caller: the businessman that is under indictment is always trying to do it cheaply.

it is all in management. the owners of the managers had to cut corners. arrows acres they do not cut corners. they do it the right way. -- at rowe's acres they do not cut corners. i am very happy with them, and they're the second largest egg producer in the united states, and they are based in iowa. the chickens are fed the high quality corn and soybeans. chuck grassley stops by to see these. if the egg prices drop, it hurts the consumption and then they cannot afford to pay for the premium corn and soybeans that are rich right there in iowa. host: let's move on to walz on airlines frot pande independent.

caller: the usda needs to do more inspections. host: thank you for your input. in th"the washington post" they write that margaret hamburg called it an unfortunate irony that the egg regulations became unenforceable after the current outbreak was well under way.

host: next up is greenbelt, md. on the line for democrats. caller: think you for taking my

call. -- thank you for taking my call. i have heard republicans talking about how we need less regulation. the reason we're having this problem is because the food and drug administration, they have not been giving the tools to givdo their job. they wonder why this is happening. the guy is talking about -- [inaudible] no one wants to take care of what they are supposed to do. people are elected to lead, and not sit over there and say no to

everything. host: judd the fda have more oversight? -- should the fda have more oversight? caller: i do not been so. i simply do not need any more government oversight. look at the situation. we need to take the laws we already have, and use those to make things right instead of making the government any bigger. host: on twitter, he says i wriwashed six to eight eggs dai, rick, and replace letter, and my chickens had never got me sick. if people only knew what must be going on. carroll is on the line from georgia. caller: might answer to the chickens and other crops is we

need more cooperative programs. why don't we create more co-op programs where people owned equally and get some small loans so three different families can start and its biggert? let's take the chickens out of the coope. we let the pigs go wild on an adequate amount of acreage will not get sick. we are how we treat our animals. they will be mean or vicious or sick. we have to go back to the basic s. give people all over the country a chance to grow different types of food. host: you want to go back to smaller operations and bank it

would give individuals a better opportunity of oversight of their own production? caller: with some regulation of government, but i think if we have more incentives for home grounds foogrown fod. 0-- food. i have friends that have chickens that are trying to get chickens and grow everything naturally. just get the animals out of the pins and the co-ops. we got land sitting and doing nothing where we could give tax breaks and small loans and create jobs and grow our food. just a small $5,000 calotte.

host-- co-op. host: the talk about action in the congress.

greendale, wisconsin. susan go ahead. caller: i am wondering why something had not been done about these firms being cited so many times before. i also think we need a little oversight of the fda. right now they're saying shrimp and other stuff from the gulf is good to eat. i do not believe them. i think down the line they will say you should not be eating this. i think the fda should be doing a better job. that is it. host: the front page of "usa today" has the story regarding the first catch from the gulf. asking if it is safe. what will it take for you to feel comfortable eating seafood from the gulf? caller: i do not plan on eating

it for quite awhile. i think down the line they will say we made a mistake. my feeling is that i am not going to buy seafood from the gulf. i did not know what it will take. we will see what happens. they're saying it is all sick, but i think that as a promotional thing. i wonder if there really is. host: in philadelphia, mary is on the line. caller: icing cumene marvin. -- i think you mean marvin. calif an animal is treated poorly, the salmonella gets inside. you cook it properly and wash it properly. the problem is this as an attack on small business.

also, the fda is notrying to put small business out of business. host: al is the fda tried to put small business out of business? caller: any violation, it put them through the same amount of money. i know, i work with the irs. if a person did not put the date down right, they had to take them through the hooks. host: let me read you through an editorial and get your feelings on this.

caller: there is plenty of guilt to go around. the point is not the gilts, the point is to do it right. the point is to have the chickens 3 ranging so they cannot contaminate the eggs -- free ranging so they cannot contaminated eggs. caller: how much money in the form of federal and state subsidies goes to the egg producers, agricultural subsidies? host: that as a very good question. what do you think? caller: i have no idea. i believe the government is putting way too much money into agricultural subsidies. host: on twitter we have a

message that rights why haven't the people sickened by bad eggs sued the company or farm? of the reason is the government. back to the phones. kansas city, kan., on the line for independents. caller: i do believe there should be more oversight, especially if you are receiving funds from the federal government. i am seeing more and more people in my neighborhood grow their own gardens and vegetables and things like that. and i really think that is the safest route because you see this thing popped up year after year. e. coli, salmonella, one thing or another. if you are receiving funds from the federal government, you should be subject to oversight. host: without more federal

oversight, would this make you bypass of larglarger stores or s where they sell large amounts of eggs and good to some of the smaller places like farmers markets? caller: yes, i would. i feel more safe shopping at a farmers' market or from a small person selling creeds and vegetables on the corner. -- selling fruits and vegetables on the corner. caller: can i have a couple of minutes to tell you i want to thank kroger pimm for not having these eggs. i read a letter that was written

to the letteditor of the paper. from that letter i spoke to a man in the environmental department's, but in that little letter she wrote to the journal, she lives in indiana, which is north of me, and she said there was a dutchman who owned thousands of acres in her area and was going to put forth thousand cows -- 4000 cal'ows,sn this sacred and was going to pollute this offeaquafer. they had these factory farms

everywhere. they were having them here. why are people from holland coming here to put in these factory farms? pigs down in indiana. they have a giant dairy farm. host: do you think mort fda oversight would prevent situations like this? caller: i think it takes federal and state governments to watch out for this and protect the people. profit is not always the top priority. you know, it is just a shame that people did not know this. this is all the regulation -- deregulation. this weekend i watched a show about this canadian farmer -- host: we're going to leave it there. on the front page of "the boston

globe." back to the phones. cleveland, ohio, and our line for the republicans. bonita, go ahead. caller: i am very disappointed. i cannot hear you. i am very disappointed in the republican party right now i understand we have a right to do

for ourselves. that is what the republican party stands for, but a lot of this stuff is getting carried away due to american greed. we do not know what these people are doing. people are dying from how they are keeping their pigs and chickens. i do feel the fda should have more oversight. the republicans holding up this bill is not fair. they're not looking out for us no more. thank you. host: other news, the lead story in "the new york times" judge calls halt to stem cell and id who backed by president obama. and

in "the washington journal ." back to the phones and our discussion regarding 60eggegg safety.

caller: i went to the cdc website to check out what someone meant about how the salmonella gets spread. the issue has to do with chickens to carry this and it comes through into the eggs, so this is something that has been known in youand you have to test your chickens to make sure they did not carry this. you must correct your eggs properly. unless you used pasteurized eggs, you risk salmonella. this is simply because this is one of the things about chickens. to have 1 million chickens you riske sick chickens passing this

salmonella virus through the eggs. host: are you having eggs this morning for breakfast? caller: no, i am not. a but i do eat eggs. host: the cdc confirms 40 more salmonella cases in the usa. the center for disease control and prevention has added 40 illnesses to the estimated 1400 that ever occurred already.

pittsburg, texas on the line for independents. caller: you do not need any more government regulation, you just need fda to do their job. more important than that, instead of having financial ceos come in to run the companies, you need someone that is actually in the agricultural production or poultry production fields that knows how to raise hens and process eggs into a right. -- and do it right. host: are you having eggs with a breakfast this morning? caller: you bet ya. host: bp listed 190 problems on the rig.

transocean says standards were met. oklahoma city, oklahoma. scott on the line for republicans. caller: i enjoy your show. you always have relevant topics. this morning your talking about

regulation of agricultural production with eggs. there was a book written a few years back called "the business end of government." it was pointing out a more regulated things become, the insipid they become. he pointed out some strong facts to support that. an article 1, section 8, there is no provision given to congress to establish an fda or agriculture of department that regulates food. that is something left to states if their people will put up with that. the court system can help people sue if they get hurt or killed by bad agricultural. i do not see the reason for the fda.

we have been conditioned to believe that the fda must be involved or it is not safe. it is not true. host: aig pays back $4 billion of debt. for worth, texas, on the line for democrats. susan your on. -- pour worfort worth, texas.

caller: we have gone from small, independent farmers to agricultural businesses. all of these animals, whether it is the chicken or eggs, pork, cattle, all of this, from being free range and beating them correctly to these huge buildings where they are piled on top of each other and cropping all over each other, is horrible. the republicans -- and no regulations on this. let them do as they please. some idiot this morning said the people need to be more careful. good lord. it is discussing what is being put out there for us to eat. we're supposed to smile and go on and do not regulate any of this stuff for god's sake.

host: what kind of farmer you raised on? caller: i was raised on a cattle farm. we had chickens. host: how long ago was this? caller: i am 67 years old, and i left the farm after i got married. host: do you remember any sort of federal investigators or inspectors? caller: no, i did not recall that. host: the responsibility for making sure your product was a spell on you? caller: yeah, but the cattle was running free. there was not garbage thrown at them in a small building. things are so different. we wonder why we're second of the time. it is just disgusting. host: in "the new york

times." coming up after this program at 10:00 on c-span, a discussion at the brookings institution regarding the war in afghanistan. it will hold a panel on the teacher of the war. participants include the former pakistani ambassador to the u.s. as well as all part of a pulitzer prize-winning book

"coast woghost wars" which lookt the cia involvement. that is the future of war in afghanistan at the brookings institution that starts at 10:00 and will be live on c-span following this program. capitol heights, md., on the line for independents. tim you are on washington journal." caller: i think the fda is part of the problem. not only the fda, but other government programs. they develop ways to hide the poisons in the tainted food that are in most consumer goods.

host: why would f.t.e. want to hide the fact that there is poison or potential dangers in the food production? caller: it is part of the policy of the elite want to put in place. -- why would the fda want to hide the fact that there is poisoned or potential dangers in the food production? caller: i will give you an example and that is asper tamrt. it is illegal for other countries to use it, but they're not doing anything from sto stot from being used. they put it in our water, along with lithium. the fda is not doing anything. there are turning a blind eye.

they had trade secrets were the allow them to put poison in most of our consumer goods. host: are you reading this anywhere? where is the evidence you have? caller: there is a lot of information out there. you will not give any information of any productive information of the mainstream media because they are part of the system that wants to employment this population control policy to reduce the population. someone did reduce as much as 80%. -- some want it reduced as much as 80%. host: we will leave it there.

evansville, indiana, david on the republicans line. good morning. caller: i have been listening to this and the step that has been going on. [inaudible] airports are too big. public-school systems are too big. farms are too big. if they were smaller, you would not have these things. host: [inaudible] host: what would be the ideal

size to vislimits and egg- producing farm? caller: as much as a farmer can handle. host: am sure the farmers in iowa said they have a situation set up where they can handle it. caller: [inaudible] host: we're going to move on to at north carolina. clark on the line for democrats. go ahead. -- criag. go ahead. caller: i think it should be more regulation. in this country is going to be destroyed by greed and prejudiced if we do not stop.

martin luther king said no man can be totally rich when you have disease going on. one set of people cannot be super rich. you have the rest of the country pouor and suffering. it will never work. and until we all come together and share, i am afraid that everyone might as well quit talking because it will not work. host: next up is herington, kan., on the line for independents. good morning. michael, go ahead. caller: the reason why i am calling in this morning is because we're talking about eggs, and we have bigger issues out there. it is a ploy to get people to concentrate on something other

than the real facts and issues going on in america. the last caller was talking about a lot of controversy and you asked him about where he was getting his information from -- we as the american people, the way we see things happening on a regular basis, we obviously have our own opinions about stuff, but things to become obvious to us aafter certain amount of time. host: as we wrap things up, tell me what you think about the fda having more oversight? caller: the fda is doing their job implemented by the government. they're doing everything they are getting paid to do. the nutritional facts of food is all they're really good for. host: a few days ago at this

editorial -- in a few minutes we will talk about the republican party with j.p. freire. we will be right back. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010]

>> we are planning our parts in a drama that is neither fiction nor unimportant. >> i come before this body to personally express again my sincere regrets about the encounter with a capitol hill police. >> i cannot walk away and have you guys doing the campaign because i am awaiting. >> current and former members delivering apologies directly to their colleagues on the floor of the house. watch more online at c-span video library. it is washington your way. history week continues this week on "book tv." tonight a look at women in history. marlin miller on the life of betsy ross, and the questions about her involvement in the

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"the examiner" put out an editorial a couple of days ago. tell us about that. guest: it is great you have republicans running against the party in power. we have seen this story before, a party comes in and they say they will do things differently from the way the party in power is doing its, and wind up doing it almost exactly the same. it happened in 1994 were a group of republicans staged a revolution in congress until congress for the first time in 50 years. they said we will do all of these things and have a contract with america. as soon as they started to falter and they encountered difficulty in getting all of the parts of the contract with america passed, they started to smell the marble as they say in washington. host: the editorial continues

saying -- what kind of a plan is the editorial talking about? guest: the tendency of republicans to put forward the idea we will cut taxes is a thing that drives a lot of us bonkers, because it is not just about cutting taxes. one of the reasons that republicans cut taxes is because that means cutting government and joking and in preventing it from doing so many things. if you cut taxes, with are reducing spending, it creates an even greater problem and worsens the deficit. host: what you guys are looking

for is a concrete plan, something like the contract for america. guest: anything where they lay out this is what we will do. we're looking for an itemized list. if the republicans get into power, what are they hoping to accomplish? the gop has yet to endorse paul ryan's road map, put but here is an idea where is this an assembled package of ideas, policy proposals, and things were you consider this is what we can do, and they have not latched onto that, despite its popularity. host: it is primary day in four states across the country.

tell us about the two-party and influence it will have in the primaries and on into the november elections. -- tell us about the tea party in the influence it will have in the primaries and into the november elections. guest: a year ago people were saying this would be a flash in the pan. that it will not matter politically because these are just people getting a good p.r. it is funny to think there is so much coverage now of candidates that have decided to run. the candidates themselves are a little bit closer to the constituents i would say. people are accusing them of being that tnutty, but i think e average people the said they

want to take the government- backed. host: will this be a referendum on president obama is policy so far? guest: sure, every minute temidm election the president always loses seats. this is always the case, not just president obama. host: we're talking with j.p. freire. if you want to get involved in the conversation, called the numbers on your screen. you can also send us messages by e-mail and twitter. the first call comes from clinton, maryland. democrats, go ahead. caller: go ahead. -- thank you. since you mentioned the tea

party, it is not representative of america as what i am trying to said. you know, you look at the tea party and all you see is middle- aged white male and females in the party. it is not representative of america. this takes me back to 1994 when the republicans and their contracts on america and can encouragringrich taking over. it dawned on me why they had not been in the majority for a least 50 years. we are seeing that again. what does around, will come around. these midterm elections, in my

humble opinion, you will see what nixon labeled "the solid majority." guest: it sure is about the silent majority. the ideas that we would be seeing a group of people that are not typically prone to protesting, that are not prone to speaking out and showing up or even running for office, i think that shows a positive development for america. i think that is a great thing that you have people that have become so disillusioned they're doing something positive about it. protests are a great way of getting it out there, but now that we're at a election time it is more fascinating that people are considering the roles that the tea party is having.

host: this is the next on the line. -- vincent is on the line. caller: i have been a republican since i started voting. they have let me down over the years. standing on the floor talking about their children and grandchildren. when they had a chance to reform medicare and medicaid in the 1980's, they raise taxes. bob dole , sold us out. what i want to say this because of senator coburn, i am currently unemployed. i am not voting for the republicans because they will cut off my benefits and put 8 million people industry. there will not take a majority, they will gain. unless they change their attitude towards working people, there will not change

anything. host: what did the senators do -- caller: big block the unemployment benefits from going through -- the blocked unemployment benefits from going through. it did not affect me, but a lot of people suffering, including my mother. they waited for them to pass the extensions. they will have to pass them because it will put 8 million people in the street if they do not. guest: there is legitimate debate about the length of time the government should provide unemployment benefits. there is no question how difficult it is for people to deal with unemployment and to not be certain with the next paycheck is coming from, but there is also the point that looking poor work is a full-time

job -- looking for work is a full-time job, and government sponsoring of that can hamper that. host: will the perception that the republicans stood in the way of extending and a limit benefits, will that hurt them in november? guest: i didn't think that is going to make or break this election. we're still suffering from the recession and every democrat proposal for solving this recession has failed to -- i would say that will weigh more on voters' minds. host: next up is the line for independents. caller: i would like to state that this is why we need

independent party involved in the government now. you take a person like ralph nader, who was made a career about changing laws for the consumer and has been running for president -- if we could have them into the products it to commission, at the head of that, we might be able to solve some of the problems we are experiencing now. the question i would like to ask is, how you feel about that? guest: the idea of an independent candidates running? caller: bringing back a balanced of our government through a free party. guest: i think that independence -- the purpose is really to shed light on and

jewissues that are not being covered and provide a voice to that. if the idea is to influence a larger number of people, you have to go to where the people are. my thought that an independent and does better joining up with a party in trying to influence the party, rather than vice versa, and tried to spread the message that way. host: a lot of attention being focused on a florida today. should sort of be seen as a bellwether, an indicator of how things will progress as we move towards november? guest: yes, it should. i would say that' every canid it will bring something different to the table. right now people in florida are very concerned with the goaulf, the recession.

but in arizona that will be a different situation altogether. host: we will get to arizona in a minute, the first, a call from georgia. caller: so far there have been over 130 primary elections. host: i am not exactly sure if i it understood what he had to say. we have a couple of graphs with surveys that have been supplied and this one talks about congressional job approval from january 2009 to august 2010. do you approve or disapprove of the way congress is handling its job? 75% right now for approval.

19% disapproval. although it has gone up and down, it remains relatively unchanged. is this an indication that we may not see as much of a turnover in congress as some people are predicting? . .

caller: obama has made promises that he would not forget us, and we would not be left behind. in general, the consensus on the gulf coast, and especially here in grand isle, louisiana, is that we have been left behind. we feel that thad allen and the government in general has been in bed with bp from day one. when they should have taken control, we feel our gulf coast governor should have called it in fema earlier. bp has dragged its feet for so long. i believe anyone we feel has not represented the suffering going on along the gulf coast, and who is running for office this term will not be reelected, whether federal, state, or local.

we are tired of people not understanding that the oil and gas industry is intertwined with our fishing industry. that is a way of life, a culture. it is not just industry and business. some of our politicians have forgotten about us, and have concentrated more on the politics of big business. they have left the fishermen out of the loop. i represent 9500 fishermen across the nation. host: we will leave it there. guest: there is probably no better articulation for people across the gulf coast and what she just said right there. especially on big business being in bed with the government, and the way that government has allowed the business to run roughshod over the interests of people in that area. the way that bp was so negligent during the course of the crisis

that they would not even allow the press anywhere near the area where there was the leak. for some reason, president obama did not waive the jones act which basically meant that foreign vessels coming to help stem the oil were not allowed into areas that needed them just because of union rules. the president can do this anytime. president bush did this surely after hurricane katrina hitch. we wonder at what point do you realize that your job is to take care of these people? if there is no other purpose of government, it is to deal with the crisis. a crisis were only you can mobilize these many units, specifically. only under your authority can the jones act be waived. host: another gallup survey here shows the drop in president

obama's job approval ratings from february 2009 until august 2010 from 67% down to 43%. how much will this play into the november election? will be a reason the republicans used to get the votes out to get themselves back into power the? >> yes, the dissatisfaction with president obama will clearly be an issue. many democrats are trying to put distance between themselves and the president. over in chicago, the president has spent a great deal of time during fund-raising. because they are old chicago buddies, he does not mind president obama coming. then you have democrats elsewhere, like harry reid, putting distance between himself and the president. coming out against parked 51 --

the mosque near ground zero -- park 51. host: going into the august recess, what kind of marching orders did minority leader mitch mcconnell on the senate side, and john boehner on the house side, give to their troops in order to be successful in the r?vember dax guest sure what the two other candidates, but they did tell rand pulte to stop talking about the civil rights act. host: do you anticipate that either mitch mcconnell or john bair are making plans for takeover in november? guest: i think they both have

high hopes, but are being realistic. i don't think there is indication of what they will do if they do gain the majority. i have not seen the list. leader john boehner has on his website a list of all the things republicans have done over the past year-and-a-half to work with the president and democrats to get something passed. that is fine, but it is not an agenda. it is ita pr effort. ari cantor, at the house whether for republicans has a program which basically solicits ideas from voters on things they would like to see cut. that is fine. it put things up for a vote, but there will not as a surly work hard to get them passed. we need to see concrete ideas from republicans about what it will do if they take but the house and the senate. -- it will put things up for a

will nott there wily really worker to get them passed. host: here on this chart, you can see the job approval rating for the two parties. just after july 2010, the approval rating for republicans is down to 5%. the democrats are at 38%. what are your thoughts? guest: fewer republicans identify with their party. many conservatives have felt the ideas that motivated the party even in 1994 no longer exist. a first this caused them to start processing as with the tea parties. now they're showing up at stake republican meetings and a way thising in layawa

shows the will participate positively -- they are showing up at state republican meetings. host: our guest is j.p. freire. he has been editor of an on-line journal of opinion from america's future foundation, and work for the evans-novak political report, and has done some research for the op-ed page of a major newspaper. thanks for waiting. onler: i'm calling to speak the issue you mentioned earlier when you're talking about republicans taking over the house and senate begin. the republicans seem to be very good spin artists, and come back

to talk about cutting big government, but do not have any ideas. we must remember that the republicans are the ones who got us into this economic mess. by the iraq war, which has seemed to drain our economy more than help it. we did need to get into afghanistan. talking about the tea party having a big influence on elections, i don't think so. many people will look at the republicans as to what they did when it comes to the working class. an earlier caller talked about unemployment benefits. people are suffering and do not have time for the republican party to hold up legislation to help get bills paid. i do not think the republicans are in touch with working-class americans.

when the democrats and independents drive home that point, the republicans won't stand much chance regaining control of the house or senate. your graph showed the approval rating down to 5%. i don't know how they can overcome that with midterm elections. another issue is immigration reform. they tipped their hands in arizona, indicating there will be against emigration reforms. i understand we need to get that under control, but the republicans went about it negatively and ruffled feathers of hispanic voters. they have to consider that the legitimate hispanic population is increasing in america, and they don't have time to alienate yet another group. host: sam, thanks for your call. guest: there are lots of ideas

in there. it is not the only indicator of how a party will do, concerning difficulty recruiting hispanics. rubio is an interesting example of a person who would be very good for the republican party in terms of optics. in terms of the discussion on the iraq war. republican-only thing, that is surprising to me. the republicans did vote -- though it democrats did vote on the resolution which led to the war. while republicans did supported vociferously, democrats have been reluctant to speak out about it until 2006. it was a bipartisan effort for a long time. the idea of republicans are

specifically responsible for the financial crisis ignores things we now lead up to it. we know that the housing boom was caused largely by big government policies that encouraged more risky lending, that eventually led to more defaults, and meant there were fewer dollars in the banks, that led to the collapse. these are things for which fannie mae and freddie mac are responsible. republicans have an opportunity to do something the others are usually loath to support, or are not clear in their support of the, which is to cut government. whether republicans will be able to do that, i do not know. they are good at spending. it turns out they did not produce anything.

host: boring file clerk sends us this message by twitter. guest: i think that it will encourage those people already on board to work harder to influence others. this event itself will probably not convince people, or change their minds. but it will be an excellent motivator, because that is what rallies do. the people will return home, talk to neighbors. one hopes that there will be calm discussions. they will sit down and explain why they have been going to these rallies, and maybe invite them to come on board. host: will republican members in the house and senate in tight races gain traction by embracing people like glenn beck and rush

limbaugh? maybe by embracing their policies, but not those people. it is a consequence of reading the tea leaves, and knowing the mood of the country. this is an anti-incumbent election. host: next, a democratic caller. caller: there is an old saying my grandmother said, as well as my mother -- be careful. you might get what you ask for. i'm a democrat. i will speak honestly. so be it. we will see what the republicans will do if they get in charge. if they get in charge. the only thing that i have heard from the republicans -- i will not be biased -- if they have good ideas, i will greet them, but all i hear is anti-obama.

i am so sick of the anti-obama republicans. another point -- there are many independent and republicans got disenfranchised with president bush and change over. all of this anti-rhetoric going on against islam, anti-this, anti-anything that president obama proposes -- be careful what you ask for, because you might get it. guest: that is an excellent point. the idea that if republicans coming to power there will have to actually do something -- it is something many republicans feel. many republicans did feel disenfranchised with president

bush, that he did not represent the conservative platform he campaigned on. he said he would go ford with a humble foreign policy, and then we ended up being much more engaged than we ever thought we would be. i would say president obama has done his share of running negatively against his predecessor. pretty much everything was to blame bush for the first year -- the recession. this is what happens during campaign season. it is unfortunate we cannot just discussed the issues. those are so struck with what happened with the other party, that there is no way to avoid it. host: we have been talking about races in the house and senate, but in this addition, the talk about governor's races. 31 will grapple with the

economic downturn and influence the redistricting process coming on the heels of the census. -- in this edition. how important is this issue over governors' seats? guest: it is very important because it involves rejecting porky additions, and showing the implants of the power of reduced government, such as chris christie taken on public unions and addressing the recession positively by reducing government intervention. host: back to the phones, pat out of washington on the line for republicans.

caller: i have a few commons. our country was founded on the principles of we the people, for the people, by the people -- i have a few comments. the biggest issue in having is they come to take my money, and give it to someone else. that is wrong. i really have not been the republican very long. kind it just been doing my own thing, but this is the first time in a long time that i hope the we can take back our country peacefully. i really do not want an armed revolution. guest: the idea of an armed revolution is a little bit off. we don't have to worry about that because we have a peaceful transfer of government every two years, and every four. instead, i would encourage you

to first, the stairway from san things like there might be an armed revolution, and second, start showing up at your republican party meetings and a large, and have a reasonable discussion with people with whom you disagree. start working with candidates to affect the change you want. host: mike, from texas, on the line for independents. caller: good morning. i am a veteran, and was raised by my grandfather to be a republican. you just had a fellow there talk about civil war in the u.s. as long as you continue to let people get away with that, we will continue to pay the price. i was a campaigner for ronald reagan. there was a guy who wrote a little book. the principals were

conservative financial principles, limited intervention in foreign adventures. the republican party has totally abandoned those principles. there is now a huge job sector dedicated to funny accounting and putting out an alternative reality. why is there a republican party since it has abandoned its core principles? the answer is because the corporations are feeding into money. you need to look at glenn beck -- has so many in this inflammatory and wrong things. it has taken tons of corporate money to keep monsters like him on our news. it is wrong. corporate money is keeping the tea party monstrosity going. we would have an independent

party, but on the corporate news, they don't listen to independents. host: part of the cover story here talks about the tea party paradox. over the past decade, they say the country has grown more conservative, but less republican. guest: as a consequence, conservatives are becoming less republican. you speak to a conservative, and they say if anyone tells you i will take steps to reduce the size of government, i will vote for that. that is the general sentiment. the republicans -- the two-party constituents are more likely to defend a republican candidate been a democratic one. it does not mean that they're selling out. they're looking at the gravity of the situation, and willing to be realistic.

the idea that that caller brought up, that corporate media has prevented the true american voice from coming up -- there are ratings, people watching these shows. it is not just entertainment, but people seem to identify with glenn beck, even with sarah palin -- with a lot of these characters. what is interesting about glenn beck is he made a recommendation of a book -- as it happened, and it became a best-seller on amazon within a few days. to me that is a positive thing. anything getting people to read that author is a good thing, i think. host: you mentioned sarah palin. talk more about her influence. and whether candidates are rich enough to carry her favor, or tried to keep her at arm's distance. after the election, they will

have to go back to washington and legislate in the real world. guest: the worst she might get from some candidates is a little bit of distance. a lot of people do like her, and want to campaign with her. she is an excellent rally year. -- rallier, getting people to give money. she has been honing her message, spending her time trying to figure out where she plays a role in the party. host: next up, ohio, on our line for republicans. caller: yes, i was concerned about the news media and how they do not investigate. i did not realize the democratic party, when it was split up to mid-level democrats and the far left -- why don't they

investigate and let people know where these candidates are? how far left? are the socialists? i just don't get it from the media. we did not investigate obama concerning how far left he was. guest: in fact, there was a lot more coverage of the process of the campaign rather than discussing where the candidates stood. that gets me about this. if you look at how bombing campaign, much of the discussion focused on how he would cut taxes, at least be moderate in terms of reducing government. but if you look at his record, he has been a hard-left democratic voter from the beginning, always voted with the board. there was very little attention paid with this. we have this narrative about how

john mccain ran a very negative campaign. host: another gallup survey, this one on presidential job approval ratings for his second year in office -- the approval rating in august, and in the last before the midterm elections. right now, president obama's rating is at 43%. george w. bush had an approval of the 65% in august, and then before the election it was down to 63%. not much change. president clinton in 1994 had 39% in august, and before the election it was up seven points. george h. w. bush went from 75% down to 50%.

based on what has been happening so far in the obama administration and the feeling of the electorate as you see it, do you seek a significant change in his job approval ratings before the november election? guest: i think that he will continue to go down. it is shocking. a caller had mentioned being out of touch with the working class. i don't know how well as you describe going to spain, and then on several occasions in the midst of all these crises. i don't think the president should try to fix everything, but said the message that he is doing things. it should be said regarding president bush's approval ratings are to the midterm that the country was still dealing with 9/11. it explains why he did not end

up losing seats. host: the president added two members to the supreme court, among other things. will this matter in the election? guest: no, did judicial nominations are political football. the stimulus is a much bigger deal. when they came out, they said unemployment would not increase passed 8.5% if we passed the stimulus -- that it would not pass it 0.5%. now people are suggesting a second stem as. not only that, that we have spend millions of dollars on

signs to say that this spending has come from the obama administration. caller: i would like to ask your guest if he can name one thing the republicans have done in the past 18 months to help the american people. the only thing i have seen is an obstruction. even policies they initially proposed -- for example, the jobs bill, they are now obstructing. as far as the president's poll numbers, anyone's would be going down if they had one tv station like fox news who is constantly giving not mis-information and falsehoods about the president. host: j.p. freire? guest: um, they have provided that obstruction -- would be the best thing they could do, because they don't have the majority.

they have been putting up a fight in legislation, the fight against obamacare has been very important. the allies of the president have suggested they were lying about all these things. as it turns out, the republicans were correct. as we are going further along, and looking at how the legislation has shaped up, what has happened after the bill was passed, we're learning more things that show we should perhaps not have been so fast and passing it. host: this phone call from california. we are running out of time. caller: i will try. this is like 1994 when republicans looked at the ballot sheet, and said, look how much

we have spent -- democrats should not spend any money. they have no black representation in the house and senate. i don't think they have any hispanics except for an anti- castro cubans. it costs money to clean up your mess. host: we will leave it there. guest: the idea of looking at the balance sheet, giving democrats a hard time for being back on spending -- you are right, the republicans have planted their own seeds here. obamacare came from the republican idea of the medicare part d. the republicans had no standing considering their huge entitlement expansion. under the false assumption that doing so would allow them to get reelected. the republicans have been profligate in spending.

the only difference is that democrats are worse, but more capable of using the republican president as an excuse to continue. -- the republican precedent to continue. host: we have been speaking with j.p. freire and you can find his peace of mind. in a few minutes we will talk about education and minority students with katie, the president of the education trust. first, this update. >> it is primary day in several states. our guest will walk us through some of that key races and tell us what to watch tonight. let's begin with the arizona senate republican race -- john mccain against j.d. hayworth. john mccain has spent more than $20 million of his own money, more than all of his senate races combined.

how is a looking for him tonight? >> we thought that john mccain would be in danger this time around. he is facing a challenge from the right, from j.d. hayworth, a former congressman. he spent a ton of money hammering judy with for having once done and infomercial that was like a ponzi scheme. he also ran on a number of issues. he changed his position on immigration reform. he became a hard-liner. all that adds up to what we expect to be a sizable victory tonight. >> john mccain said that j.d. hayworth is deader than elvis

tonight. >> if john mccain wins, he should have an easy time in the fall. >> how has the immigration law in that state affected her race? >> she has come to an easy time. she was facing a challenge from a couple of republicans, but that evaporated in the face of her astounding popularity after signing the law. she will face a democratic challenge and the fall from the ex-attorney general. she will easily get through the republican primary tonight. >> in this third district, several running for the retired legislators seat. >> that is where quayle is running. he was a front runner because he had such high name recognition. in the weeks leading up to the primary he has had trouble with

allegations that he wrote for a night life website that is fairly trashy and sex-themed. he faces a tax on that from his leading challenger. he is the businessmen, the only one of 10 that has raised money anywhere near money anywherequayle has. he brought in over $10 million from his father's friends. >> in florida>meek is running against greene. >> it is looking good for meek. greene has lots of issues -- ran into problems concerning this yacht where he was parked with celebrities. it is the political story of the day saying that senators did not do things like that, do not party with lindsey low hand. >> if meek comes out ahead,

what does the general election look like for him the? >> you will have it 3-way race. rubio for the republicans, the tea party, meek, and crist. meek's strings will not bode well for crist in the fall. looks like he would caucus with democrats if he came to washington mego it will probably hurt crist and help rubio. >> scott spent about $39 million of his own money. what does it look like? >> it will be tight. it will be very interesting to see. bill has been around a long time, has backing from an

arkansas governor. there you will see a steady in whether the self-funded businessman can turn around and take them out from under the political establishment in this cycle. >> what happens in a general election? >> whoever wins will likely face the democrat alex in a tightly- watched election. it is such a bellwether state. >> and the washington lisa faces a challenge by the tea party candidate, also backed by sarah palin. she has been prepared. what does to not look like for her? >> she should be close to victory, based on the polling. obviously, sarah palin has backed him, but that goes back to history that sarah palin has with his family.

>> how should you care in general election the? >> perfectly fine. her family has been in alaska in politics for a long time. >> later tonight, beginning at 8:30 p.m. eastern, you can see per results and watch speeches. host: katie is the president of education trust, and is here to talk to us about two reports regarding minority gaps in education. first, tell us what is education trust? guest: a national, non-profit organization, organized 15 years ago to work on improving academic success of minority students. host: and how?

guest: first-come on the ground with educators who are trying to improve results for kids. second, we do a lot of data analysis to help people understand what the patterns look like, which committees, which schools are unusually successful, and which are not. to learn from those successes. finally, to work on policy in washington. host: 1 report focused on african-americans, the other on hispanics. what were the overall findings? guest: both encouraging and discouraging. the national data shows a pattern where low-income students and african-american, latino students enter college at rates below those of white high school graduates, but they also succeed in the college at lower rates. the result is that white, young

people in this country are earning bachelor's degrees at about a rate of 35%. out of every 100 kids in kindergarten who are white, about 35 earned a bachelor's degree. when you look at the numbers for african-american and latino students, they are considerably lower. for african-americans, about half of the rate for whites. it is easy to conclude that every institution has gaps in the academic success. when we look at the data by institution, we learn that there are large numbers of colleges around the nation that have no gaps or small gaps. those that focus on stood and success, giving both groups -- getting both groups through at equal rates.

other institutions have much larger gap than the national average. they do not focus much on student success. the results show that they only care about getting them in the door. host: you look that one trip college as having success with both groups. it is in south carolina. what makes the program different from a school like wayne state in detroit for the gap tends to be larger? guest: we have tried to understand the differences in practices. there are several things that distinguish them. one is that student success as part of the core mission of the institution. at winthrop college through generations of leaders on the campus and has been a real focus with faculty members, making

sure that students are really succeeding, not just getting through the door. they're not just watching whether or not students are graduating, but at what happens and the freshman year, the first semester. are they getting the supports that they need? are they struggling, taking the correct glasses'? when you look at the less successful ones, it is not that they do not care or have lots of programs aimed at students success. but what you really see is a real focus from the president down to a fact of the members -- a deliberate effort to make sure that students don't just arrived, but succeed. host: we're talking about reports by education trust. if you want to be involved in the conversation with our guest, call us.

you can also send us a message by either e-mail or twitter. we would like to hear from students, parents, and educators. you can find this report at edtrust.org. the first call is from baltimore, md., on the line for democrats. caller: i believe that parents are extremely important and whether or not their children do well in school. i think one of the major mistakes made by all the people who try to improve the performance of underprivileged kids is they focus on the children and schools, and largely ignored the parents.

i was wondering if the education trust as anything to try to train parents to better support the opportunities and environment of their children? and if there is any evidence of success there? guest: it is a very important question. common sense tells us all that what happens at home for kids matters a lot and whether or not they succeed in school. when we looked at a lemon tree and secondary schools around the country having unusual success -- when we look at elementary and secondary schools, we very often seek serious efforts to make parents partners. that means not just the old big sale or pta involvement, that making sure that students are in the correct classis, that her work is supervised, making sure that students are at school.

we have also learned that some parents are too overwhelmed by their daily responsibilities to do as good a job. both at the elementary and at the secondary level, successful schools recognize that. they do some of the parenting themselves, helping kids to learn manners, learn the work ethic. it is about trying, but acknowledging that families, some families are in such disarray, the schools have to do some of that too. most educators are happy to fill in when situations demand. at the college level, involved parents are a mixed blessing. usually by then, sit and success is mostly a function of how hard students and institutions work.

at the college level there is all less focus on parent involvement, but a lot of focus on making sure the connection between students and the institution sticks. host: next, kentucky, on the line for republicans. caller: good morning. i do not understand that you want to raise up more -- every year, you get paid a salary. every year you want to raise it. i had a kid go to a public school. that is wrong. you should charge people. i don't think public schools should charge people. that is wrong. my social security should pay for that. john boehner should be elected president for 2012. host: you said that they're paying students to go to school?

caller: i have a daughter who goes to school on a high have to pay $25 every year. i think my social security should pay for that. they say this book fees. how go out and buy her books and clothes. then i have to pay $25 every year. it depends on how many kids go. host: roy, we will leave it there. and the reports regarding african-american students, or latino students, is there any evidence the gap has to do with how much the parents are paying for them? as the caller said, about books and school supplies? guest: if the question is whether financial pressures contribute to low success rates, the answer is yes. we have learned when students

have adequate financial laid so they're not having to work too many extra hours, such as working beyond 20 hours -- that really interferes with academic success. when institutions are able, but from government sources and their own, to make sure that low-income students have support to keep the work hours down, then their success rates go up. host: next up, joseph, from the durham, n.c., on the line for independents. caller: i'm a student at university. in raleigh, n.c., there segregating the schools. they said that low-income students go to one school, and higher income ones go to another. it is a race war in the area.

it is affecting the children. the think it is important to separate and segregate everyone, or better to keep everyone together and keep everyone on the same level -- do you think? guest: i was there just last week at the school district, and many educators there are worried. many listeners may not know that for many years raleigh, north carolina was considered a model of integration. not with a focus on race, but on family income. researches clear on this -- the idea is, if low-income students never became the vast majority of any school, but were integrated into schools with lots of other middle and high- income students, that would be better for everyone.

but recently the school board and did that decision -- undid the decision. they went back to neighborhood schools. the result is a low-income students are clustered in the schools in low-income neighborhoods. my experience tells me it will make the challenge of educating all kids to high levels more difficult. so, i regret that the district decided this. one of the things we know from schools and districts around the country is, if educators are not deterred by the presence of a lot of poor kids, or lots of minority kids, from believing they can learn, and it really focused on getting them to high levels of achievement, they can do that. yes, it in fact, the re- segregation of schools in

districts such as raleigh, n.c. present extra burdens. but that doesn't make it impossible. i know educators there are working very hard to turn around those patterns. host: what is the reasoning for the re-segregation? isst: i'm not sure what all the hon. it is important to have local people discuss it. -- not sure what all is behind that. host: our next call for our guest comes from frankfort, kentucky, on the line for democrats. caller: mining is eric. i go to kentucky state university. -- my name is eric. i have been in the school for the last, 56 years and join the

national guard which help to pay for some of my school. i had to do this because i had been pushed off campus as the cost of living and tuition had gone up each year. i am 24 years old, and moved off for my and half to pimm fve toy own cost of living and education. i am working 40 hours, and must fulfill my national guard duties. it is really hard. it is hard to find financial aid good enough to help me support myself. i cannot go back to school until i have my bill paid off. host: you have already shown you are willing to put in some time

in the military. have you thought about applying for and rotc scholarship? caller: there are many stipulations. with my already being a senior, i would have to wait another four years, and increase my contract for another three or four years with the rotc. guest: thanks for calling. i think about how hard it was for me to get through college. i only had to work a limited number of hours per week. when i hear students like you talking about balancing a 40- hour workweek, plus national guard service on weekends and in the summer, also turned to get through college, my heart goes out to you. what really makes me unhappy as how often we put students like

you through this nightmare when we really do not have to. one of the things that has happened in this country is the cost of going on to college -- it has gotten more expensive. the reality is, government has been investing in student aid in increasing ways as well. in fact, the increases in the government aid have kept pace with the increase in the cost of going to college. there has been a real shift in to those government dollars are spent on. more and more that money is going to middle and upper income students, and less to low-income students who really struggle. the same is unfortunately true of the institutional aid that colleges have. most in this country have a fair amount of their own financial aid money to spend.

over the last few years must have chosen not to spend that on those who need support like this young man, but rather on the high-achieving students who make them look better in rankings. host: how much of this is due to the fact that in some minority communities, an impoverished committees, that the information on where to get this scholarship or grant money is just not available? if some of these people knew where the get the money from other financial burden would not be as hard. whereas students what to do know where to get the money, the loans, the scholarships. guest: part of the problem is information. neither schools, nor committee centers always know all the

sources of student aid available. -- nor community centers no all the sources available. the biggest problem is spending money on students who do not truly need the assistance. in this tight economy it means that students for whom the money is essential, are the ones now going begging. host: in the situations where the cost of an education for four years of the state college could run up to $180,000, who does not need assistance? guest: the reality is, there are varying levels of need. students from families making $100,000 or more may and a perfect world need assistance, but they don't need it the same way that students from families making only $25,000 per year

need it. host: john, on the line for republicans from california. caller: i was a teacher for about a dozen years mostly in lower economic schools in southern california, and worked mostly in the lower grades. a huge problem i encountered was a discipline problems, even among children so small. it is a sad problem. on the one hand, the children acting out are clearly victims of frankly, poor , and garments for various reasons -- whether because their parents have to work a lot, or the parents of other issues themselves. at the same time, it goes too seriously damaging the ability of the other students in the class to learn because there is so much lost time through

classroom management. so, your comments? guest: i always feel for teachers and the situation you are in, because for an individual teacher, they are not possible to sell. all across the country, schools that serve kids who live in very difficult environment -- kid to come to school presenting some challenging behavior's of types you're talking about -- but with a focused approach at the school, and discipline, with a lot of training for teachers on how to keep the students engaged -- frankly, the problems to talk about really go away over time. when i visit high-performing high-poverty schools, i see kids entering was some of the problems you mentioned, but within a few months, they are transformed. not because of just one teacher

changing, but because the entire school embraced this need. and really focus not just on teaching, but also in gauging the students in understand what proper behavior is. host: the reports you mentioned are on the website edtrust.org. it talks about big gaps and small dabs concerning college graduation rates. tell us how you chose the schools that you looked at, the criteria that went into choosing them, and evaluating the gaps between graduating levels for white and minority students. guest: we created a web tool

accessible to anyone listening or watching today. it is called the college resulresults.org. you can look up any college in the country and see what its graduation rates look like for four, five, six years. you can see them compared to the institution's most like it. it is a massive database built with publicly available data, primarily from the u.s. to permit of education, and that helping people to see what the success rate looks like in my local college, or those i'm thinking about sending my children to -- largely from data from the u.s. department of education. ."

. not by reputation, because we of a lot of institutions that say we are minority and poor students, but where they go as they are. host: what have you looked up with the states? guest: and the list to say to my mistake that were already doing this for black and latino students were happy that we were doing this. the graduation rates for african-americans were slightly higher than for white students. that is a real commitment from institutions and not just getting students in the door,

but to succeed. very few people knew that one institution in particular created such a test. the five years ago, it had a big difference between its white students and black students. today, and black students graduate slightly higher than the white students. the more successful institutions to stop the blame game. they partner with the local schools to work on student preparation, but they mostly look inward and decide there are some things we can do, and they do them.

host: doesn't matter their college, public or private, as to the size in the graduation gap? guest: it is about the same with the public and private institutions. there are levels of success and horrible gaps in both public and private institutions. host: is the graduation rate higher in his starkly black colleges and universities verses mainstream university -- a black colleges and universities verses mainstream universities? guest: that is a good question. there are some that have very high graduation rates, but others that have very low graduation rates for african- american students. it is a mixed bag. host: back to the phones. our next call comes from pensacola, fla., on the line for our democrats.

caller: if you'll permit me to lie of a comment about c-span operations and then i have a question -- if you will permit me, i have a comment about c- span operations and then i have a question. your previous guest referred to obama care. i understand you can have guests on there that have different point of view, but i think it is not good to allow guests on their that characterize -- that is characterized programs. my question is the -- is, if you factor in first-generation students, there are students that are first-generation college students in both places and i wonder what that looks like. if you're a first-generation

students, there is not that much support for those types of students as there would be for second and third generation, some good because of family competition. my brother went to college, so i need to go and do better. guest: you make a very good point, that when parents themselves have been to college, they can help their students understand what they call "college knowledge." in other words, how you get into the right courses and so forth. that knowledge is very helpful in helping students get into college and succeed. but once again, we are finding that when institutions understand the things that students actually need to learn to succeed and '80s those things through something like a college success course given -- and they are actually teach those things through something like a college success course, they can help

those students. it is about students that just succeed. do not just say, well, we have mostly first-generation students, so we will not have of success. what do they lack in terms of knowledge and how we teach that to them? one thing i have not had a chance to make clear to get is, there may be colleges focused on getting success rate of four latino and african-american students, that they have somehow lowered standards and they will harm the education for the other students. let me be clear, when we look at institutions that are succeeding for not just some students, but all the students, we see higher standards, not lower standards. and we see good practice that improves conditions for all students. who does not just a territory of

for african-american students, but white students as well. -- it is not just more success for african-american students, but white students as well. host: next call from michigan. caller: we are very low-income and my son always excelled. all the way to elementary and through high school. when he applied, he was accepted to the school of his choice. he got full scholarships. it was a blessing. it was a diverse school. i was very appreciative to the people that contributed to his college education. the we were in boston and nine in michigan. my second thing is, i want to know if you know anything about the bill that is headed to the senate -- i do not know the

number of the bill, but when signed, it is going to give the federal government along with the united nations more control over kids and take away lest sovereignty over your children. and the last point i want to make is that there is a woman going back to the reagan administration, charlotte is derby, and he delivered dumbing down of our children. i think you should look better website. host: do you know anything about that? guest: no, i do not. host: there is a headline "why young men do not graduate-wide black young men and a graduate -- "why young black men do not

graduate. and it says, gender no longer performs a successful part of marriage. your thoughts on that? guest: the op ed piece draws from a very nice recent report done by the shot foundation and was aimed at calling our attention to the very low graduation rates among african- american boys. and they provide the rate to run the country as well as states.

my own -- the rates are around the country as well as states. my own view, as well as everybody that sort of points to, oh, we cannot do anything with children who do not -- who have this problem or that problem, they do not have to parents, they do not have enough money -- and all of those reasons, for me, become simply excuses. there are high schools around the country, i can give one in new york that serves mostly african-american and latino students and it has graduation rates of 90 are -- a 90% or so during and europe. the reality is, when we really -- a year in and year out. the reality is, when we really focus on getting students in there and we challenge them, we

can get better results. of those results, how many go on to college and get a college degree? guest: most around the country do not have the date on that because the colleges do not report that back. host: back to the phone line, is it, you're on the "washington journal." caller: good morning. my question is the disparity in the school. the foundation of the child begins early. i of a construction worker and -- i am a construction worker. these high class people will build huge schools. host: is it?

i think we've lost isaac. let's go on to new jersey. caller: i am from jamaica. my husband is from niger. uighur benaissa some where you went away to school and her parents had no input -- we grew up in a system where you went away to school and your parents had no input. it worked well. i used to teach and i would tell them to my you have a problem, i will show you how to look it up. my husband and i have to go to all of these pta and get involved and all of my children

went to college. the last one is finishing in december. everybody has a master's degree. the jobs are not there, but they are making do. i think the big problem in this country, we coddle our children too much bureaucracy -- too much. guest: i actually could not agree with you more. if you look at what has happened in american public education in the last 20 or 30 years, what david gardner said when he was chairman on national excellence in education, he said, over the years we have expected less of our show and then they have given it to us. your point is exactly right. but we know from common sense and from research that when we expect more from children, they actually give it to us. it is not always that simple, but the core principle that we

see in the effective schools all the time is they raise expectations. they never tell kids, you did good work, unless they did good work. and we do not do this kind of poor baby phenomenon where we hug them and say, poor baby, you did not have enough to meet last night, so you do not have to do the work. the reality is, i care about you and i am sorry that you do not have enough to read, but you have got to do the work. -- enough to eat, but you have got to do the work. host: next caller from alabama. caller: would be the effect of vouchers in schools -- what would be the effect of vouchers in schools? how would that enhance the opportunity for young black kids got to go to other schools?

guest: that is a good question and i wish i had an answer. we know a couple of things. there are very few darter programs around the country, so there is not a lot of -- a voucher programs around the country, so there's not a lot of data. but when there has been research on them, the results tend to suggest not much difference. sometimes they are doing a little bit better in private schools. sometimes they're doing about the same or a little bit worse. but i think what we're beginning to understand is that public, private, a traditional public, a charter -- the form of the education is not the answer. it is what happens inside the schools in the end of the really matters. and what kids of color, poor kids, all kids need is a staff

that demand could work from them and provides them a sport that they need -- a demand good work from them and provide them the support they need to get that done. host: kati acox, thank you for being with us. -- kati haycock, thank you for being with us this morning. here was a text that was released . in just a few minutes we will be continuing our summer series. this week, we are looking at

defense issues. yesterday, we looked at the f-35 program. tomorrow, our conversation continues with a focus on military use of drones. thursday, a discussion on military pay and benefits. the friday we will wrap up the series by looking at the rehabilitation process for those injured in iraq and afghanistan. in just a few minutes, we'll be looking at the mrap's. the-resistant vehicle. -- the mine resisitant vehicle. it will have that for you in just a moment. >> here's a look at some of the other programming coming up on c-span that works today. this morning, brookings institution hosts a panel on the future of the war and i'm afghanistan.

the author of a pulitzer prize- winning book looking at the cia involvement in afghanistan from the 1980's through september 11 attacks. live coverage gets under way at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. and a discussion later today on military suicide prevention hosted javaid ready defense department task force. that is at 1:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span. >> we are all ponds on the chessboard and we're playing our part in a nonfiction that is important. >> i come before you to express again my sincere regrets about the encounter with the capitol hill police. >> i cannot walk away and have you guys doing your campaign because on annoying. >> current members delivering

corrections and apologies to their effort -- their fellow members, all online. history week continues this week on "book tv" prime time. that is on c-span2. "washington journal" continues. host: tom vanden brook content -- and joins us from usa today. he is here to talk about a minor resistance ambushed protected vehicles, otherwise known as an route's.

-- as mrap's. the first, tell us what is an mrap, and how does it differ from the humby? guest: it is a big truck, basically, that has a v shape cone on the bottom that deflects the blast forced from a bomb in the road. it also said about 3 feet higher, the crew capsule's it's about 3 feet higher off the road. a blast, when it happens, disobeyed pretty quickly. it makes a big difference. whereas, a humvee, about half the way to at least of an mrap, has a flat bottom and it tends to observe the blast and is that much closer to the ground as well. host: when did become apparent to the military and civilian hierarchy that they were going to need more of these mrap's in

iraq and afghanistan? guest: initially it happened in 2007. we ran a story in april of 2007 in which we talk to some marines in anbar province about the performance of mrap's there. i was told by general allan at the time that in 300 attacks on mrap's, no rain had been killed, and that differ quite a bit from the humvees at the time. i was traveling with defense secretary gates at the time and he saw the story and took interest in its. the military advisor, then cieutenant-general peter kwel orelli also took interest in it and they began to look at the use of mrap's in the valley.

there are about 10,000 of them in afghanistan right now. they are shifting more over to iraq. about 4000 of those vehicles are specifically designed for afghanistan, called and altering mrap. host: wider than the degree reconfigured for -- why do they need to be reconfigured for afghanistan? guest: afghanistan has few paved roads and they need to have the ability to get around. having that ability allows them to be less predictable for insurgents to attack. host: we are talking about my resistance ambushed projected vehicles, otherwise known as mrap's with tom vanden brook of a and "usa today."

if you'd like to get involved, please give us a call. you can also send us an e-mail or a twitter. if you have had experience with these mrap's in iraq or against them, please give us a call. some of the specifications for both of these vehicles that were listed in a graphic that we got from the associated press, on the left, the specifications. the humvee, lord to the ground and more vulnerable -- lower to the ground and more vulnerable to bombs.

these are big vehicles. they're almost the size of tanks. guest: their big trucks and their unwieldy and that is part of a problem with -- the troops have had with them. they're like driving a big moving truck, and that has been a bit of an issue and they can be somewhat top-heavy. there have been a number of incidents in which these things have tipped over, sometimes into canals, and soldiers have died that way. host: how many troops can you put into an mrap? guest: there are different variations that will cure or more troops, but the standard one of about four in the back and to in the front. so, six. host: and in the humby? four in the compartment

and one in the gun turret. host: and what is the miles per gallon? guest: they do not like to talk about that. but it is pretty safe to say that they are guzzlers. host: our first phone call, steve ahman of 94 republicans, go ahead. caller: i would like to know where these vehicles are assembled and where the parts come from? guest: that is a good question. there have been a number of different manufacturers over the years. the initial group came from south carolina. another built many out of mississippi. and right now, virtually all of the new one's going to afghanistan are billed by oshkosh truck.

host: next up, gloucester, va. caller: i was wondering the distance they could travel on the fuel capacity they have and also, the strength of the metal that they use. host: guest: i'm not really sure about the distance that they can travel -- guest: i'm not really sure about the distance that they can travel. they are not necessarily in entering all of that -- all that far. host: one of the graphics that we have from the associated press talks about the cost of these vehicles. it says, that cost of a humvee is roughly $150,000 per vehicle. the cost of an mrap is anywhere from a $450,000 to $1 million per vehicle.

is there any thought to cutting back on the use of the mrap and going with more humvees? guest: i have not seen that at all. $26 billion has been advocated -- allocated for them, so i do not see that happening. one thing that is happening is the -- is just a fact that it is expensive to train troops and when they die, their benefits paid out as well. this kind of ghoulish, but it is true. if you're saving lives, you are saving money as well. host: how much training did you have to go through before they put you behind the wheel? guest: i did not have any training. they just put me behind it when i was at the manufacturer.

but i think it takes a couple of weeks. i just drove them domestically. it takes a little bit of time for this -- these guys to get used to it, but it is pretty intuitive once you are inside. host: next up, fred on the line for republicans. caller: what have you heard about what they're going to do with these million-dollar vehicles now that we are drawing down in iraq and not using these vehicles in afghanistan -- rather, we are using the mindy mrap's in afghanistan. guest: that is a good question. they are moving them out in some fashion so that most abubakar combat units -- so that most of the combat units are

using them. it would not be a whole lot of them, but most units would have the capability. host: he used the phrase "min mrap." can you describe the difference? guest: it is the one i was speaking about, the all terrain vehicle. it is somewhat smaller. they still has a lot more weight than a humvee and is still has that cone-shaped wholhull. next host: call from pennsylvania. caller: no price can be put on a life, and as far as these mrap's go, they have to be the most wonderful vehicle ever made so far. i could not have lived without

the things, i tell you what. and believe me, i spent some sleepless nights sitting inside one and i never felt safer. host: what was your experience with the mrap? were you in iraq? caller: yes, iraq and afghanistan. we had a full-size in afghanistan as well and personally, i was never in one of the mini mrap's. host: what was it like in one of the mrap's driving around the maturing in afghanistan? caller: if you could imagine yourself being pulled across boulders -- comfort was not there, but psychologically, you cannot beat it. it raises moral and it saves human lives and you cannot put a

cost on that. when a battle is being fought, soldiers need the proper equipment and this vehicle is proper equipment. too bad my father did not have it in vietnam. it would have made a helluva difference. guest: and that is what i was going to mention, the mrap's they have been using their in afghanistan now have resulted in 30% fewer deaths this year. that could make the world a lot different to a lot of people. host: agusta, georgia, go ahead. caller: how come we are always giving a vital information on our troops? my husband is in the military and i feel that this is more of a threat to our own troops by

giving all this public information. guest: i'm happy to answer that. i think most of this information is widely available, and certainly, unfortunately, insurgence know a lot more about the vulnerabilities of these vehicles than we do. they study them all day. there is nothing that the military has not released about them that is not widely known already. host: the department of defense numbers, 15,327 mrap of vehicles were in iraq and afghanistan. tom, your on the line with tom bender burk of -- tom brook.ervander caller: i was in vietnam and i was wondering, what is the

offset in the cost -- whenever after by a boost for these men because i never see them -- we never how to buy a pair of boots for these men because i never see them walking. guest: they actually do a lot of walking. time and again, these are a means to get soldiers to where they need to work, and a lot of that work is on foot. host: next call is from louisiana. caller: i have a question. why does the mrap not have a probe that extends 20 or 30 feet to detect when minds? guest: i'm not sure i understand

the question. host: i think he was asking about why there is not a probe of fitted onto the front to detect whether there is a mine out on the road. guest: some of these vehicles and do have controllers that they put in front of them to detonate mines before they reach them. they also have electronic devices that can prevent devices that are radio controlled from going off. host: next up on the line for republicans, brian, go-ahead. caller: dollars is going to talk about the relative performance -- i was just going to talk about the relative performance between the three vehicles. for some reason, the government

of vehicles at a higher cost and a half lower performance. can you talk about that? guest: to an extent i can. on the shirt you're talking about available -- i am not sure if you are talking about the availability for use or things like that. a roundtree dozen aid, the government made the decision that navistar was able to produce these much more quickly. and that really drove this. the same thing with oshkosh, they were told that they could produce these vehicles at a rapid rate. that was a primary concern, in the vehicles aren't as fast as they could. host: the defense department and chief of staff was a letter ground combat vehicle.

is it possible the they are born to abandon the m1 for a vehicle that is closer to a tank and a truck? guest: i do not think so. i think it will continue to have tanks, or some version of that. and they were talking about a vehicle that would replace aid bradley -- replace abruptla bray with a humvee, but some the

necker have a bit more harmonic. it did not -- a bit more, on it. host: any plans to put a gun turrets or canons on these mrap's? guest: they all have gun turrets. they're all made such trips can stay inside the vehicle and they have cameras that show them where their targets are. host: how big are the guns? guest: it depends. they can have 50 caliber machine guns or smaller. host: minneapolis, minnesota. i'm sorry, i have leveaux, texas -- the louisville, texas, robert, go ahead. i just heardreckebrook,

true -- the response to the question that the military's jost asked you and i have a problem with that type of response -- that the military wife just ask you and i have a problem with that type of response. i've spent the last 13 years working in kuwait. i have a short tour in afghanistan and are also done iraq. that information is highly dangerous. we should come up with a better response to our military wives about the security of their spouses in that particular environment. that was not good at all. guest: sir, again, i would tell you that nothing that we have reported is not information that the government has not put out, or deems not sensitive enough to keep classified.

there is nothing in the reporting that we have done that dells -- delves into classified material at all. and i would also suggest that if we have not reported about the vulnerabilities of humvees, the mrap's probably would not exist in the numbers that they do now and savings -- that they do now and they would not have been saving lives. by any measure in this circumstance, the soldiers and troops have benefited greatly from this information. host: the information from the ap report in the mobility of the mrap says that if sacrifices speed and fuel consumption for the safety of having armor.

cruising range is 420 miles and top speeds are 40 to 50 miles. what is the 14 death? -- the fording death? guest: that is the problem have mentioned it with turning over in the creeks, but by and large, that is a smaller issue. host: next of compromise ohio. -- next call is from ohio.

caller: i do not understand where their supplies, shoes, clothing, whatever was made with this country in a recession like this -- where there supplies, shoes, clothing, what ever, was made. with this country near session like this, it seems like we should be able to do this. guest: all of these supplies and vehicles were made in the united states. south carolina, mississippi and elsewhere. host: and where the plans for more mrap's as we increase the number of troops going into afghanistan? guest: there will be 27,000 all told. there are 4000 in afghanistan and i think they're going have to about 10,000 total that will be used there. host: is it just the troops

using the mrap's, or is this spirit are among coalition troops? -- is this spread out among coalition troops? guest: they have been widely used. we're learning some to other countries, but as secretary gates points out, u.s. troops needs ranked first. host: next call, michael in minneapolis, go ahead. caller: two questions. i can recall in 2004 and 2005 seeing members of the defense department driving in these vehicles. it seems that the humvees or not adequate to protect soldiers. and also, it seems we have very

difficult times in 2004 through 2006. what kind of thought was it -- was put to retooling general motors the way we did before? guest: in 1994 there was a report to the army and marine corps based on their experience in somalia. that report noted that humvees could be a death trap in an attack by a mine. it goes back 16 years, basically. that volatility was known. there were requests that were made for -- that vulnerability was known. there were requests that were ine for additional mrap's 2004 and in 2005. the largest one was in 2004 by the marine corps and they ask for hundreds of these vehicles. that request languished for 15 months.

you can go back even further. the south africans and regents had this technology in the 1970's. they were fighting their own insurgency and they had raised chassies and adis holt shaped vehicles. -- end of these hull-shaoed vehicles. is this per year or over the entire length of the mrap program? guest: no, this is per year. a lot of money -- money is being spent. $26 billion has been spent just since 2007. host: is there any resistance in congress right now or in the questioning about how much is being spent on the mrap program,

and any thought about reducing either the cost of the mrap program or shifting money from another weapon system or another military program to cover the cost? guest: i think to an extent that might have already happened. the next generation of humby is called the joint light tactical. that has been put to the forefront because demand for these is high. host: next call from georgia. caller: i'm a soldier and i served in both theaters, iraq and afghanistan. my question is, why isn't the government pushing more of matv's?

it is a lighter version of the mrap. guest: that is a good question. i was on a flight in 2007 with 3 a c-17 and they had to do refueling a couple of times to get them there. it costs something like $100 to get them to afghanistan. that is -- $100,000 to get them to afghanistan. host: tom vanden brook was previously a reporter for usa today and has also spent some time writing for the milwaukee journal and the milwaukee journal sentinel. he has been in local and state government, higher education,

and the environment. his first job as a new tzipi -- newspaper reporter was with the green gate gazette. back to the phones in georgia on the line for independence. caller: mr. vanden brook, i have to say this sudden concern course safety and security because of this information is coming from left field. i do not understand the connection between the two. but my main point is, i remember when they realized that the humvee was not for the adequate for what they were facing up there. there was a push for a more armored vehicle. there was, in fact, in production already -- and i think it was an israeli vehicle that have the same characteristics of the v-shaped hull.

why did they take years to go to the mrap? guest: that is a great question and i do not think it has been fully answered yet. part of it stems from the fact that the military and civilians here did not think we would be in iraq as long as we have been. and the thought of spending a lot of money on a vehicle for what they thought would be limited use was not very appealing. and you are right, other countries had built these and have have been around for long time. we have used them in our own fleets, primarily for the disposing of bombs. but it was not until 2004 or 2005 that we realize they would have applications for trips across the board and not just an explosive ordnance disposal. why did not happen before, i do not think that has been answered

yet. host: the caller before mentioned the letters matv's. tost: that's simply refers -- that simply refers to the mrap's in afghanistan already. it is just the mrap all terrain vehicle. next host: call from maryland. caller: can you hear me? c-span3 i can. -- host: i can. turn down your tv and you will not get the feedback. caller: ok. i do not understand or losses we are taking with these new strategies with these armored vehicles. i feel it is wrong. there is just no excuse for losing our people the same way,

every time on a roadside bomb. they can smell as coming in those armored vehicles. -- they can smell us coming in those armored vehicles. we should be using better searching and extraction process of joy. these humvees -- we should be using better searching and extraction processes. these humvees are a waste of money. we're just telling everybody that we are coming. we should be using helicopters. i just do not understand this. both in iraq and afghanistan, it does not make sense. guest: part of the issue with counterinsurgency is that you need to get out and interact with local populations to understand what their needs are and to provide security for them. you cannot be inside a vehicle. and many times, soldiers now are

dying on foot patrols. they are stepping on these bonds. there is not much you can do about that, unfortunately, except to have a hand-held mine detectors, which they are sending over a fourth of the use of their. helicopters are a help -- which they are sending over for use over there. helicopters are held, but it is not the only way they have to get around there. host: i would imagine, given the size of these mrap's, you can hear them coming from several miles away. guest: is true. it is a big, bulky vehicle. that is not to say that a humvee is a lot quieter, but you do hear them coming. it is taking soldiers to work, basically. host: next call from

massachusetts. caller: i would just like to say that these things to save military lives and at the end of the day, that is and what the job of the pentagon is. host: david, did you serve in the military? caller: i served in iraq and afghanistan. the mrap's they're just so much better equipped. there are fewer casualties, even when you do hit roads i bombs. host: were you ever in one that hit a roadside bomb? caller: yes. host: what does that feel like? caller: it gives you a good shot, but is not devastating allied it is -- devastating like

is to ra humvee. host: did it roll over or flip over? caller: popped us up a little bit, but it did not hurt anybody. host: was there damage the under kerridge? or were you able to keep driving? caller: it was inoperable after that. guest: is poetry lieutenant a couple of weeks ago who has a platoon -- by spoke to a lieutenant a couple weeks ago has a platoon near kandahar and he's -- he said that his troops walked away saying a few cusswords, but that was about it. host: once these mrap's are blown up, so to speak, how

difficult is it to get them back on the roads? guest: some of them are totally destroyed. others, they can replace axles and other things and put them back into service. host: atlanta, georgia, you are on the line with tom vanden brook. caller: my question is on the department of defense spending. according to government sources, before 9/11 there was an investigation because they could not locate $1 trillion. in a speech given by rumsfeld in 2003 after the big corporations started spending money for the military, mr. rumsfeld said that he could not locate $2.3 trillion, the

of defense could not locate it. in recent years, it has been reported that they could not document $3 trillion. as a taxpayer, it disturbs me, in view of the fact that we go $13.5 trillion -- that we owe $ 13.5 trillion that the state department cannot keep track of multiple trillion dollars. your program had a man who was an expert in overseeing the contractors in iraq and afghanistan. he was very disturbing in that he could not find in many

instances, even 10% of the documentation needed. host: we're going to leave it there. how much oversight is it -- is there regarding the cost of the mrap's and it's being maintained on the field? guest: it goes before congressional committees. by the there's a fair amount of overside and they can tell you down to the million-dollar level what they are spending this money on -- testing and so on. host: sarasota, fla., on the line for independents. caller: i am over here in sarasota, florida. i am, sheldon. -- i am carl sheldon. from was oversidght congress in terms of testing for

civil forfeiture. host: i'm not a death wish for what this has to do with mrap's. caller: -- i am not exactly sure what this has to do with mrap's. caller: that is what i'm trying to get to. host: we are getting short on time, so please get your point. caller: if you look up the civil asset forfeiture, if you rule it, you will see what it means. -- if you google it, you will see what it means. it is the war. we live over here. we are from san francisco. and we are being -- i have had two attempted murders on our lives. host: i think this train has gone off the rails. in politico they have this

story that talks about the cost humvee and it also talks about a clash when it was announced that the army would stop buying the cheapest in favor of the american -- stop buying the humvees in favor of the mrap. will they replace them entirely? guest: not all of them. most of those will be placed domestically on army posts and there will be used at bases abroad, but they will not go outside the wire. right now, they still use them to an extent in afghanistan, but it requires the authorization of a colonel for troops to leave the protection of the base in them.

mrap's would not replace humvees 121, but it would be a successor to humby. -- would not replace humvees one to one, but would be a successor host: joseph, what is your question? caller: from 1979 to 1983 they used night vision scopes. are they using those? guest: i think that is in wide use, absolutely. host: north carolina, go ahead. caller: is there a