the exact wrong thing to do in a struggling economy. economists agree and a growing number of democrats agree. if we're serious about helping our economy, we need to stop the tax hikes and we need to cut spending. let's cut spending back to 2008 levels, back before the bailouts. . .

we will produce some of the uncertainty coming out of washington, d.c. >> had the spoken with mr. council this morning? what is your reaction to a long

time, well known lawmaker losing in the primaries. >> you have heard me talk all year about the rebellion going on in america. i have never seen more americans engaged in government in my lifetime. the voters of delaware have spoken. you're going to continue to hear the american people speak. you'll hear them speak loud and clearly come november. >> some people are saying that it will benefit challengers in both parties. what advice are you getting to your income but members -- incumbent members. >> i talked to my members about

engaging with people. by and large if you look at the house republican incumbent members, they have done a great job of reaching out and working. >> center boehner, everybody is talking about not only the possibility of the republicans taking over the house and you becoming the speaker, but the likelihood of that. what do you think about you becoming speaker? your career has been described as the cat with nine allies. what do you think about all the people talking about this? >> we have a lot of work to do in order to earn the majority back. if we are able to earn the majority back, we want to do so. we want to renew our efforts for a less costly and more

accountable government here in washington, d.c. >> if you think it is a federal policy to use the filibuster to block any legislation? >> i think we should do everything we can to extend the current tax rates. raising taxes on anyone, especially small business, is the wrong prescription for an ailing economy. >> the republican party has harnessed the voter sentiment. >> i think that most of the uprising that we have seen thus far we have seen in the primaries. now that we are out of the primary season, all of our candidates have to work closely with all of these americans that are newly engaged in their government. we want to encourage americans

to take an active role in their government because when americans are engaged, washington listens. when the american people are not engaged, then the politicians are in charge. we have seen what that has led to. >> what impact did the primaries have? >> alito that they and other americans will stay engaged in what is happening in washington on a daily basis. if they work with their members, both democrats and republicans, they can drive the debate and they can drive this town to do the right thing for the american people. >> can i ask you a question? i am wondering if your ads are helping you to raise money? that was a softball, dude. >> president obama talk to white house reporters about economic

policy. he discussed the small jobs bill in the senate and discussed taxes. all right. good afternoon, everybody. i just met with my cabinet and members of my economic team and i wanted to tell you about a few developments about our ongoing efforts to strengthen the economy and the middle class. after months of partisan blockade in the senate, we are finally on the verge of passing a small business jobs bill that will cut taxes and provide loans for millions of small-business owners across america. while i am grateful for this prospect, it should not have taken this long to pass this bill. at the time when small business owners are still struggling to make payroll and are still holding of hiring, we have put

together a plan that would give them some tax relief and make it easier for them to take all loans. this bill has been paid for. it will not add a dime to the deficit. it was written by both democrats and republicans. for four months the republican leadership in the senate has said no. all the while, small-business owners kept waiting for help. they kept putting off plans to hire more workers and were their businesses. thankfully, two republican senators, george lynn you, have refused to support this blockade any longer. because of their decision, this bill will finally pass. i want to thank them for their efforts. they understand that we simply do not have time anymore to play these games.

let me give you another example. right now we could decide to extend tax relief for the middle class. right now we could decide that every american household would receive a tax cut on the first $250,00 other income. but once again, the leaders across the aisle are saying no. they want to hold these middle- class tax cuts hostage until they get an additional tax cut for the wealthiest 2% of americans. we simply cannot afford that. it would mean borrowing $700 billion in order to find tax cuts for the very wealthiest americans. $700 billion to give a tax cut or an average of $100,000 to millionaires and billionaires. it is a task that economists say

would do little to add momentum to our economy. i do not believe this makes any sense. even as we debate whether it is wise to spend $700 billion on tax breaks for the wealthy, it does not make sense for us to move forward with the tax cuts that we all agree on. we should be able to extend them, right now, middle-class tax relief on a versed $250,000 of income. right off the bat, 97% of all americans would get tax relief on all their income. people who are making more than that, say you or making $500,000, you still get tax relief on half of your income. middle-class families in need

this relief. these are the americans use all their wages and incomes flat line of the last decade, pressing the costs from everything to health-care to college tuition skyrocket, and have been hardest hit by this recession. extending these tax cuts is right. it is just. it will help our economy because the middle-class are the most likely to spend this tax relief for a new computer for the kids or maybe some home improvements. if the other party continues to hold these tax cuts hostage, these are the same families who will suffer the most when their taxes go up next year. if we cannot get an agreement with the republicans, that is what will happen. we do not have time for any more games. i understand there is an election coming up. the american people did not send us here to just think about our job, they sent us here to think

about theirs. they set us here to think about their lives, their children's lives, and to be responsible and serious about the challenges we face as a nation. that is why members of both parties have worked on the small business jobs bill. i hope we can work together to do the same thing on middle- class tax relief in the weeks to come. thank you very much, everybody. >> if they want all of the bush tax cuts, will you sign it or veto it? >> coming up on c-span, tony

award testifies andrea -- on deep water drilling safety. that is followed by a tactic -- a capitol hill hearing on sex trafficking. after that, president obama speech. tomorrow on "washington journal" a look at immigration laws with chris strohm. "washington journal" begins live at 7:00 eastern on c-span. >> it is arguable and justifiable to say that we would not have a black middle class if we had not had general motors, ford, and chrysler. >> he supported the government bailout of the automobile

industry. on sunday night, you'll talk about his life and what is ahead for car makers. that is on "q & a." >> toni a. ward defended bp's safety record -- tony hayward defended bp's safety record. the committee is looking at deep water drilling off the uk coast. this is 1:30. this is a program to at the net across our worldwide drilling operations. we would expect some of these to be widely adopted. this is -- i emphatically do not believe this is the case. the need to mitigate risk associated with offshore

drilling is an industry issue and one i believe we all need to address. it is tempting to call for drilling bans. i think that is wrong given the world's demand for oil and gas. prior to this accident, the industry drilled for more than 20 years in deep water without a major accident. we should take a rational approach to this. we need to make sure the lessons are fully implemented across the world. there are for strategic actions this committee should consider in the u.k. confirm things are working as we intended. enhanced testing protocols on blowout preventer, including the backup systems. enhance relief planning. ladies and gentlemen, thank you as for your -- for the

opportunity to say these words. >> when you were appointed chief executive three years ago, he said he would be a laser light on safety. during those three years, we have had the biggest oil spill in u.s. waters and 11 deaths. last year, five of york north sea installations failed to comply with the emergency regulations. the offshore inspection records said you had not applied with rules or regular training on how to respond to an incident. it also says that inspectors from the department of climate change say you've failed to conduct exercises adequately.

why should this committee to conclude that bp is a responsible company to operate deep water wells in u.k. waters? >> that may address that question in two parts. the first in terms of what we have done over the last 3.5 years. we have made safety regulations the number one priority. it is about what we do under neath the banner of safety and reliable operations. safety is about three things. it. a ballot [unintelligible] people and process. we have invested into the integrity of our programs. we have also established safety operations integrity group. we have recruited outside of the industry from the petrochemicals

industry and the nuclear industry. we have added thousands of engineers to our operations. we have established new processes around the company including one designed to assure that our operations are safe. it is undeniably a fact that because of all of that, this constituency is so devastating to me personally because we had made an enormous amount of progress in that three years. . if i could take the question of the north sea -- we take all safety issues very seriously. i do not believe that the issues reported this morning point to any fundamental problem in our north sea operations. we have a very strong track record in the north sea. it is better than the industry average. we have seen major improvements in the course of the last three

years. spills or a good indicator of safety performance. they have fallen by 20% over the last two years. i will ask for further comment on the north sea, but i think it was commentary this afternoon from the ecc that said nothing that they identified compromise the overall integrity of installations. >> thank you. as tony said, we take

observations like this very seriously. we welcome the opportunity to improve our business, specifically in those two areas you mentioned, specifically training. there were less than 10 people who had undergone a mostly refresher training. it was an administrative error. clearly today all of our people are complying with that training requirement. beyond that, we have taken action to make sure that that initiative error does not occur. the second point you raised was on the matter of drills or how we practice for spill response. we had been carrying out and continue to carry out exercises for how to respond. i think it is fair to say that there was some confusion within

the industry as to what was exactly required within those drills. i think it is reasonable to say that the confusion was recognized by the regulator. in august of this year, the regulator issued a clarification and guidance on what exactly should be carried out when those exercises are undertaken. clearly today we are in full compliance with what is required of us. >> in the effort you have been making over the last three years, was or decision to have anyone -- was that decision taken to save money and therefore -- >> we have found nothing in our investigation that suggests --

the blowout preventer was fully compliant. it should have options. the fact it did not function is something that the industry needs to understand and ensure direct actions are taken to ensure that equipment erupt -- equipment operates as it is designed to. the fact is, it operated as it was designed to. >> was an effort taken to save money by bp? six days before the explosion, why did your staff described

the well as the nightmare well? >> there are chilling challenges with that well. they have to do with a gassing flux at a higher elevation. i think the description is unfortunate. the well had been challenging, not unusually so. the gulf of mexico is a more challenging jelling environment than any other part of the world. >> on the working of the blowout preventer, it should be failsafe.

it did not seem to fail in a safe mode. was that a misunderstanding? >> there are three memos for the operation of the blowout preventer. the first is when the well is connected. if the rate becomes disconnected from the blowout preventer, the deadman function should activate the blowout preventer. the third mechanism of activating the blowout preventer is through manual intervention. in the case of this accident, all three mechanisms failed.

>> only 6 centralize servers were used instead of the recommended 21. this is contrary to your all plan in april. this or individual operational decisions. we get the impression

i think it is important that we understand what did and did not cause the disaster. >> it doesn't really matter if any of those caused the accident. it is more about the principles that the recommended approach -- >> let's take this one at a time. the flow was up the production casing per it was not around the side. in decision to run the long stream was -- if you use a line with a time bank -- or the type that connects to the rest of the casing is subject to degradation and can leak. we have a lot of examples of exactly that occurring in the

gulf of mexico. the practice of the majority of the industry today is to run a long streams to avoid the possibility of degradation between the tieback. the decision not to run at the cement was because they believe they had demonstrated that the cement had been effective. conduct a positive test, will oil flow into the formation? then we can get a negative test rate we note with the benefit of hindsight that the negative test was erroneously misinterpreted. they believe that it was good. therefore, they had a good cement job and there was no need

to run the cement bond work. it is used to determine whether you have a cement problem. it cannot determine pin prick holes in this segment. it identified correctly that the negative pressure test was wrong trade it was very light -- likely they would have run to determine whether additional cement -- cement needed to be place. >> the problem was with the cement. could that problem currently exist on any of your other wells? >> we clearly have taken a lot of action to clarify and provide much greater rigor and around the assessment of the negative pressure test. ibp, we have been very

prescriptive about what does and does not constitute a negative pressure test and we have elevated the authority to say that it is acceptable in the event that there is any ambiguity. >> do you applied the same safety standards -- safety standards to all of your operations worldwide? >> we apply the same standards. but they are influenced by their relations in the -- none >> standards apply in your current operations in the u.k. are to the same standards that you apply -- >> they are very heavily influenced by the safety regulations in the u.k., which we may wish to discuss at some point. the standards in the u.k. are driven by safety regulations -- they are very different than the

ones in the u.s. >> do you operate lord standards in the u.s.? >> we have the same standards, but there are differences in the ratings regime spread there are different requirements. >> you talked about one of the problems was human judgment. we have before us last week transocean. he said that there was a chain of command would then his part of the company. he said there was a time out period. are you suggesting that there was a call for a timeout that was neglected?

he is aware of the dangerous. are we led to believe that when a timeout is called, it happened each and every occasion? how the reports identified anything different? >> anyone at any level on a drilling facility. there is no evidence from our investigation that anyone at any moment in time pulled a timeout. in the negative pressure test, the bp well site required to be taken again. it was taken again. the conclusion was that they had a good test ban could proceed. >> i did not understand when you talk about -- surely, that would have been tested.

>> the back trip that was flat was in the blowout preventer at 5,000 feet. -- the battery that was flat. the last time it had been tested was prior to being put on the seabed. what we have to determine is exactly what was tested at the time the blowout preventer was last put on a sea bed. >> what we have done is as soon as these things came to light, we have implemented across our global drilling operation, a program to ensure that the equipment will do what it is designed to do. in a number of cases, that has required us to halt the killing and bring the blowout preventer to the surface. we have done -- hold drilling and bring people out prevented

to the surface. -- bring in the blowout preventer to the surface. everything that we have in operation today is working as it was designed to do. the second thing we have done, which i believe is significantly enhance the testing process of blowout preventers. insuring that the backup systems work and are tested in the course of drilling a well. previous to this, they were only tested at the end of each well.

>> halliburton is confident that the work was completed on the welt meeting bp specifications. you said that it was a bad cement job. i wonder what you are doing new or different lead to ensure that when you do sign off on other providers, you are happy with it. >> we know that the cement was not good because we had influx into the well. there is no doubt that this was -- exactly why it was is not clear. we have not been able to complete the investigation in that area because we have not had access to the cement. " we have done -- what we -- we

have simulated it, but we have not gotten a sample. we need to be cautious until we can complete that analysis to understand why the cement failed. what we have done is to required that all cement contractors have first party verification of their standards and procedures, a cement formulas, everything around the cement. it is a new -- it as an enhancement to previous procedures. >> they can verify that the mixture is correct? >> this wanted to follow up on

the recommendations. there is a lot about how you need to change the conditions you apply -- in terms of how the industry performs, a lot of things that used to be in house are now provided outside. that involves a lot of small operators. is there a lesson that the industry needs to learn about having the same culture -- a culture throughout the contract? >> it would be surprising given the nature and the gravity of this accident if many in the industry would not look afresh at the relationships between themselves and their contractors. i know bp well. i think it is too early to conclude exactly what the changes will be. in our reports, we talk about

-- it is possible that it may go beyond that. some of the things may come back into bp. but i think we need to be quite critical of of doing that. the reason the industry is involved in the way that it is and it goes back 20, 30 years, the idea of creating skills and a narrow space. we need to be certain that if we bring things back in, we reduce the risk. the industry will look very hard at the nature of relationships between operators and contractors in a number of the mansions in light of -- in dimensions in light of this tragedy. >> having read the summary in terms of the substance, i was

looking at looking at -- i was interested in looking at the technical side. there was very little reference to anything to do with the management of contractors, how you manage. from the recipe -- from the report, you will say that you are now looking blowout preventers. are you doing more than that? are you looking at risk assessment? are you looking at management structure? it struck me that you can always look at the technology and engineering, but ultimately, it is people and shareholders to end up being responsible. >> in defense of mark, the

investigation was launched to understand what happened and to make recommendations relevant to the immediate cost. what bp is looking at -- the issue is the management of local ability. this risk was identified at the very top of the bp crew. it was identified as a principal risk in the production business. yet it's still crystallized. we clearly have to ask ourselves what more can be done in managing the general question of management of -- we have to keep reminding ourselves that the industry that drilled for 20 years in deep water without the

blowout. the believe that we mitigated the risks. >> if we could move the risk assessment, what is your prime risk issue that you are looking at when you are looking into operations? >> can i just make a couple of comments? it is important that is all the lessons learned need to be applied. there are some important differences. the first one is that there is no where -- the reservoirs' have high pressure and high temperatures. it occurs in shallow water. it is in the central north sea. in the deep water, there is no high pressure and high temperature. it means that it was a very different challenge.

the strength of the ratings the regime here. the north sea had its own disaster 20 years ago. as a consequence of that, the safety regulations was fundamentally changed. the: reports provided the foundation for extraordinary regulation of the last 20 years. i think those are quite important. >> my party in the north sea is very clear. it is the number one thing. if you come into our office, you will see it on the walls and screens. the number one priority is and has been the reduction of hydrocarbon it releases. the reason for that being, not

just in a risk or in safety or in business, it is that priority in the business. the reason is, as we have seen in the gulf of mexico, the consequences of its going wrong are significant. for that reason, we have focused on back priority over the last several years. the first thing is to declare that it is the most important thing. we have done a lot of work on education in this space and helping our work force. there is a facility in the u.k. that helps people see what happens physically in an explosion. it is very -- it helps people understand the strength of what can happen. we have invested in maintenance and inspection and our facilities to improve the integrity of our facilities. i am pleased to say that all there is -- we must -- we have

made significant improvement in the last two years. that track record continues this year. the reduction of hydrocarbon releases -- is the thing that i worry about first in the morning and last in the evening. it is the thing that when it goes wrong, people can lose their lives. that is why we focus so much on edge. -- so much on it. >> [inaudible] what should have happened? >> let me start. the primary measurements of a drilling operation is the

pressure and volume of mud. those are the two most important that are monitored and measured on a continuous basis. if it is increasing, it tells you that something is going into the well. if it is decreasing, it tells you that the money is flowing into the formation. -- mud. they are monitored on a continuous basis in the drillers control units. >> in addition to that, there is another service provided on the drilling rig. this service also monitors those parameters to provide a set of eyes on the data. it was important finding in the investigation that the influx in this well occurred over several tens of minutes leading to the

explosion. that is counter to what you would expect to see. if the fundamental practice is early detection and early action and for some reason, that was accomplished here. >> [inaudible] >> but the report has been able to do is identified that the signs were not -- some of the equipment was available. we cannot say it all was at all times. we captured that with real time data. there is record of the information that has been available so we know that was there. we cannot explain why they did not see it. >> it was up to 40 minutes. the you have concerns about the training of your resources?

what is going -- what are you doing to rectify the situation? >> the recommendations that we have made are to consider enhanced training. there was industry standard training. all the people who were close to this, we were concerned that they were up to date and have the appropriate training. the recommendation that we made to the company is that we should consider superseding that and going further with training and competency. the other thing we recommended is that this is almost something that you could take for granted because it is such a common practice in the industry. let's go back and absolutely define what the minimum requirements are for well monitoring. while we could not get to the to the bottom of it, we stepped

back and made recommendations to make it more robust anyway. >> i have a family member [inaudible] >> [inaudible] you report does not to be -- show any evidence of that parade i wonder why that was the case. -- evidence of that. i wonder why that was the case. >> we wanted to understand the sequence of events, remembering that at the time it was a horrific incident to look at.

we went to understand what were the chain of events that happened and what were the immediate costs is so that we could get some insight as quickly as possible. that is what we have done. i think it is a good contribution to develop understanding. there may be more to do. >> on the basis of that, does bp had any -- is it a series of threats? >> i think it is important to consider all the things we have identified and recognize that any one of those could have prevented or significantly reduced the impact of the incident. there is a way to think about each of those and how he would strengthen that. the recommendations that we have

made are targeted at exactly that. thinking through what steps you could take and a range from consideration of engineering design, consideration of improved standards and practices and procedures realization of the things, and consideration of paul you -- of how we up our game in ensuring that we gets quality there. those are the broad themes. >> i guess what i am trying to get that -- even to insure safety record. you mentioned that straightaway. are you still dealing with that legacy?

and are used to working through that? >> i think it is very dangerous. it may beat -- not be appropriate to join up. i do not think we have any evidence there of the sort of issues that we were confronted with in texas. but we do have very clearly is a lack of rigor and oversight of the contractors' trade the contract is we're using your -- you may not expect that they would need that quality of oversight. but it is clearly something that the report make strong recommendations around.

it is something that we have already taken action on. including the waiting for the reports be published. including the oversight that we apply in the operations. that is a legitimate concern. i do not believe that it is back to the issues that week -- >> and [inaudible] >> this report satisfies our terms of reference. >> it is close to home. are there plans in place prior to the incidence?

>> i think it is evidence and we have certainly acknowledge it that the industry was not prepared. we believe that we had effectively mitigated that risk. that was not the right conclusion. over the course of the last four or five months, we have built an enormous amount of capability. it would allow you to cut away and put a cap on a blue not well and contain it. -- a bellona out well. -- blown out well. we are shipping to of those kits

-- capping structures across the u.k. to be based in south hampton at the oil spill response center as the beginning of creating the capability to be able to intervene if such a situation to occur. that does not mean to say that there is no lack of focus on mitigating that risk and ensuring that it does not occur, but as the industry fully -- industry in the u.k. is moving forward to create capability to deal with it blowouts. the first of that is to bring to of the multipurpose capping equipment to the u.k. to be based in southampton. >> i am a practicing medical

doctor, whistleblowing is difficult. it strikes me that most people are under contracts. these think that it is a problem in terms of reporting concerns? -- do you think that is a problem in terms of reporting concerns? for the sake of the industry's reputation, that they would be -- at the moment, potential conflict of interests. >> there are a lot of things that could be done.

we found no evidence of anyone being under any pressure to do something you did not want to do. he testified under oath, he is the ultimate authority on the red, he said that at no time he felt he was under any pressure to reduce costs or to go quickly. as far as he was concerned, he was the accountable person. he makes those -- was a tempting to believe that this was caused? there is no evidence of that whatsoever. >> maybe in terms of management and reputation of the industry, you might want to consider that. >> both of which are legislative

requirements. the first is the requirement to have a group of people who are volunteers. it is a legislative requirement. their job -- when i go offshore to our facilities, i too often meet with them at independent of the management of the facility to understand if they have issues with the management, if they had issues they want to bring to my attention. that exists today. the other thing you will see when you travel to an offshore installation is people are encouraged that people have direct access to a hot line should they wish to raise

concerns. people do use that facility. there are the things today -- i just wanted to make sure that you knew what was in place in the north sea today. >> you are upset that there could not be any hydrocarbon spillage. he did not have a recovery mechanism in place. i am concerned about [inaudible] there was a presumption that to -- in some ways, it is important that we learned less than from the gulf of mexico.

you start opening up a lot more and revisit some of the risks. we are talking about idifferent areas. i would urge the industry to look again and not to dismiss something because it has never happens or believe that we have -- these disasters could start to increase around the world, not decrease. >> i agree with you completely. >> either we have a technical solution or have it -- or it has not happened. >> i completely agree with you. the occurrence of seems to be

more often than not these days. we are looking very carefully across the company and the local ability that we believe we have effectively mitigated break not just the extent of the medication -- mitigated. not just the extent of the mitigation. >> the capt. technology -- deepak and technology is impressive, but is it the right lesson in terms of not to have a blowout preventers really do failsafe so that you do not have to have the cap containment.

>> that is the right approach. you have seen the reports and you heard what i said about the action that has been taken on blowout preventers. i would expect that to the changes will be made to a blowout preventers as the industry moves forward to further ensure against anything further. >> page 48 of the report, you identified the three options. the third one suggests that the assembly was -- that is why it did not operate. >> this was their explanation

for one of the reasons why it did not work. what this stems back to is that we strongly believe that during the intervention activity, and they did take an action that managed to close. it did not stop the flow from the well. at the time the report was written, we could not determine the specific reason for the failure mechanism. these three were identified as the most likely possibilities. this is one where we may learn more about as the equipment is taken out and basically did constructed. this is one where there may be more information on. >> i want to go back to the point you were making about people feeling under pressure. in the context of the north sea, --

>> i do not believe we have any evidence of it at all. >> i think people are clear on our priorities in the north sea. i see no evidence of that in my time in the role. it is something that -- it is important that people feel that they can do two things. one is stop a job if it is happening. and secondly, not feel under any pressure that they cannot say something to someone. that is something that when i go offshore, i test. i talk independent of the management of that facility to the people who are volunteering their time to be safety representatives. i sit down with them and these are the questions that i ask them.

that is at the root of our safety culture. i have not seen any evidence of that. if i did, i would take action. >> i expect that to, when you are talking to these people, perhaps their responses may be slightly different. going back to this point about the safety record, i accept parts of their reports. how can you ensure there is consistency across the whole of the company and your contractors that the safety is at the heart of everything? >> the first thing is ensuring that the management will talk.

and is not only about saying it, but doing it. before we invest anything, we invest in safety. it is about making certain that we have the right capabilities. it is about having the right environment so people feel they can speak up and raise their hand if there is something that they are not happy about with respect to safety. we were discussing that over the last four years, we have implemented a management system which is designed to ensure that all of our operations are conducted to the same high standard and there is the same look and field to the safety of those operations everywhere in the world. > do you operate on your rigs

in the north sea? >> we are fully compliant that the trade association has with the unions and the work force and we have no issues with that policy. it is fully in place and our operations today. >> you have brought to the structures to the u.k. -- two structures. how long will it be before we can have confidence that the industry in the u.k. has a routine procedure in plan to deal with something? >> the plan is to build that capability over the sexed -- six months.

>> thank you. >> moving away from the technical side, are there any aspects of public create -- public relations handling that you regret? >> i think there are many things that i would do differently if i had the opportunity to again. but i think it is also the importance that we all understand that given the scale of this tragedy and the enormity of the disaster, emotion and anger in the united states was very high and quite understandably so. therefore, it made the whole public-relations area extraordinarily difficult. >> do you consider that you were fairly treated by the authorities in the united states? >> there was an enormous amount of emotion and anger. it was very understandable.

>> does that suggest that you were not fairly treated? >> it was causing immense stress and distressed to thousands of people. >> their reaction from the administration? >> their reaction was entirely understandable. i would like to be very clear that bp had and then stored in -- extraordinary constructive with the government -- -- relationship with the government of the united states. the largest spill response ever seen by a -- others in history will be determined. it was the largest response of its kind. that required tremendous

cooperation. >> how many countries around the world does bp operates in? >> around 30. >> have any of those countries attempted to interfere with your dividend policy? >> the united states government did not interfere with the dividend policy. our decision to suspend the dividend was made by the board of bp at the height of the crisis, where our financial liabilities and extreme financial prudence was warranted. it was a very painful decision for all those who were involved in making it. it created an enormous amount of pain and short-term to our shareholders. but it was taken by the board of bp in the interest of

preserving that the financial strength of the bp and the long- term interest of shareholders. >> bp was not influenced by any way of the comments of the president? >> it was all to do with looking at the liabilities that we could see coming towards us and insuring that the company's balance sheet remained strong and robust and we were able to deal with everything. i think there is political risk to operating in those jurisdictions. >> many people would say, nigeria or somewhere might be riskier than the u.s. >> i think that is a pretty fair assessment.

the think you were treated by the british press fairly? most of the headlines were -- said that bp was blaming everybody else. how do you respond to that? >> not a consequence in the matter of report. >> you take all rot -- you take all responsibility? >> we were a responsible party. we had an obligation to stop the spill, which we succeeded in doing. we had an obligation to clean up the oil.

we had an obligation to repeat any environmental damage, which we will do. we had an obligation to compensate those who read been affected. the report was not desert -- not designed to apportion blame. the report was designed to point to what happened and to ensure that those learnings could be applied across operations. >> i think you are a sang -- you have the drilling operations here. did you say that the press was there in his response? >> it was what it was.

>> can i take you to u.k. deepwater drilling? >> [inaudible] >> what we're talking about a deepwater drilling, a popular supposition in the u.k. is that we are not talking about deepwater to the same extent as the gulf of mexico. you have the experience of reasonably deep water.

what experiences have you already learned from both exploring and drilling in this field? >> those fields were found in the late 1990's. we have been active and developed in the late 1990's. we have been there for 20 years. with a very good safety track record, would note incidences' or major actions -- accidents. the water is deeper than the rest of the north sea. the temperatures are relatively low. he did not have the juxtaposition of high pressure and high temperature. business has been welcomed.

>> you mentioned that the pressures and temperatures are lower. is that something you would extrapolate across all fields or is it something that is an unknown? >> but we do not know, we do not know. we can extrapolate in the areas where we drilled. there is the possibility that higher pressures and higher temperatures make it a possibility. it is a possibility. >> you are intending to more

deepwater drilling later this year? >> we have not made a decision yet. >> do you have any evidence as to what you might find? >> the water is deeper. >> the projections on pressure and that while are similar to the predictions that we would have -- they are about half the pressure that we experienced in a well in the deepwater of gulf of mexico. that is very similar. the pressure is roughly half. we do not have that combination.

the geology is different and we do not have that combination of water depth and pressure that we experienced in the gulf of mexico. >> on your plan for the north u.s. prospect while -- well, what would be the status of the blowout preventers? >> we operate at a moment's -- what we do prior to taking on any new rig is go through a very comprehensive audit system where we established the condition of the rig, the track record, the confidence of the people. we will be looking very closely

when we bring in a third party company who looks at that block out prevent her and confirms that is -- it works as it is intended to work. >> [inaudible] i was in the process of talking

about the plans for exploration drilling in the north u.s. prospect and what your plans for sure cutters -- sheer cutters were and what you have in place? >> we have a prospect in the deeper waters. we are not drilling that prospect this year. we will likely draw that to next year. the types of rigs that can operate and that water tend to be dynamically positioned. they tend to be new are. they tend to have more than one one -- we do not have a rig identified that we will use at

this time. we have standard equipment that is used throughouthe industry. he alluded to what we now do consequent on the accident in terms of how we look at a blowout preventers. if the blowout preventer has operated as it was designed to, as it was intended to, the consequences could have been very different. that is why we have ten the steps to give an additional level of assurance to what we had in place, where we bring in a third party. to say that the existing fleet operates as intended and operate as they are designed. going forward, every time maintenance is carried out on that bop, we will ensure that

there is a third-party, independent company on back to -- on thaat rig. that is a very important thing that we will do. the second thing we are doing, which we believe is very important, is the -- is testing the secondary systems. one of the things you do it is in the event, you have a remotely operated vehicle that connects itself to be -- to operate that. we actually simulate that and we do that today on service with the same kind of pressure and

the pump to confirm that if that secondary system is needed, it will operate as we require it to. those are some of the things that he alluded to in his opening remarks, they may have more impact across the industry. >> what would you say is one of the lessons? >> what we have to do, i think, and mark's report makes it clear, -- it i an area where there are some unknowns remaining. the plot out printer has just been recovered. -- the blowout preventer has just been recovered. what is important is that we take action in the near term to ensure that systems work as intended. if they do, they will operate and do what we expect them to

do. there is no doubt that the industry will work harder at the design of the bop itself and what can be done to it to enhance its reliability. >> we will run through until about 5:10. >> there is a time scale involved. a multibillion-dollar industry like this, for the layperson, it seems extreme.

do not understand the frustration and anger? not just from the american senators and congressmen, but the people who care about the environment. two-thirds of the whole spillage is gone. i just find the whole thing a lesson to be learned, it is our greatest, -- it is outrageous, honestly. >> i understand why people feel the way they did. there is no doubt about the inability of bp and the industry -- it was not properly

prepared and iwas unacceptable. what wdid was to -- or strategy was around partial containment, complete containment. we pursued them from the very beginning. we implemented as the crystallize the engineering around it. the truth is that it took longer than any ofs anticipated. the industry was not prepared cause it believed it had mitigated the risks. that was a very bad assumption. >> the layperson would think

that you have this thing sitting on the region. i am talking about an experienced area. >> there was no new science, a lot of new engineering. this sort of engineering has never been done before. in doing it, we created an enormous amount of lessons for the industry. if it is ever required again, at the industry will be far more far -- quicker and to intervene. i do not want to defend the industry. when something like this happens, it is not defensible. we had been doing these

operations for 20 years. we drilled more than 5000 wells all over theorld and had a very strong track record of no accidents. >> that was in hindsight, wrong room. -- wrong. >> but you say that the industry placed a lot of blame on bp and said it would not happen to them. how do you respond to that? >> i think it was understandable given wha was going on in the united states. i think it has been made clear that this was not an issue of well designed. >> what about bp in the way that its structures its finances. you?ave insurance, don't

>> we do. >> [unintelligible] d used think that we should be here-do you think that we should be involved here in very lae engineering without dave true barometer of risk and ability to assess safety? >> the reason bp has moved to the southern shore, which occurred about 20 years ago, was that we found that the insurance market was not deep enough to cover the risk. and when it was, the premiums far outweighed -- we looked at a 15-year time frame of the claims verses premiums paid and it was

such that the premiums were far greater than any claimver made. >> i think this issue is a measure of risk. the premiums are very expensive, but that is -- and that is the barometer of the risk that you areaking. >> that is true. that is one measure of risk. if there are many others. it is also a measure of the death of the insurance market. -- debt of the insurance market. >> we touched on a financial incidents, those that depend on bp for their investment. but also, those that rely on what bp is doing.

it's what local ramifications are there of bp's operations in the north sea of having to meet these obligations? with our investment in the north sea, we have a very -- >> our investment in the north sea, we have a very significant investment program there, 12 billion pounds in the next five years. that is not in any way affected by this need to restore financial strength of bp. >> is it true that two weeks after the explosion that the president announced that bp was responsible? >> under the [unintelligible] it did not surprise us. >> even though york are actual

report said that responsibility is shared. -your actual report said that responsibility is shared? >> we believe we have there's possibility to deal with the incident, cap the well, clean up the oil, repudiate the environment. >> -- were mediate the environment. >> but you feel that you are responsible for the cross? >> [unintelligible] >> newfield that it was preempting due process? >> i do not feel it was preempting due process. in the first instance, it was very clear from the u.s. legislation that it was bp's responsibility to respond to this and i think we responded well. >> the britishrime minister said two weeks afterward you'd be paying for that?

>> i'm afraid i was not in the country at the time. i was in china. >> with respect to the slow response, i've got this statement from bp released june 19. "our initial tests show that when we apply this persons under water, we have it -- we use a much smaller amount of this person then we need. [unintelligible] that kind of information might be helpful to other companies in the future." would you agree with that statement? it has a rather glib quality to it. it is like a vast laboratory

experiments on the deep sea oil spill. >> that is not what was intended. the facts are facts. what we found through the application of dispersants in the subsea environment was that the amount of thiserson that you had to apply was much smaller. and the reason for that was that the oil and disperse and were traveling through the water and mixing very effectively. it was rather like a washing machine. what i have to say about that was that no one knows today the environmental impact of this. we have a very substantial science program in place measuring the water column and

the marine fauna and flora to determine what impact there has been from the application of dispersants. i think is fair to say that time and science will determine precisely what environmental impact there has been. >> you also discussed the commission process in using the dispersant. but this person is designed to work in certain types of water. i cannot see particular deaths in your plan. i wonder what the ticket of process -- particular depths in your plan. i wonder what particular process you used with this plan. did you know what the environmental impact would be?

and that sort of level, that sort of pressure, you have a substance formed and you do not know what is going to go to the top and what is going to go to the bottom. there is a lot in play. is it possible to predict where this substance is it? how are you going to deal with that? >> i think is very important to recognize that the application of the dispersant was approved by the u.s. epa. of everypplication of it, whether on the surface or on the subsea, was some of s

approved. >> on what basis? you were essentially saying, we're going to try this, but we do not know what is going to happen. i just wonder how the u.s. authorities made that judgment. >> i think it was a belief tha it was going to be more effective. it was a theory. it turned out that, indeed, that was true. the dispersants applied creed of the same effect as physical this version. >> it was using it as a

laboratory. i guess that was a bit of a scientific punt. >> it was a scientific guess that was applied and proving to be accurate. -- and proven to be accurate. >> [uninlligible] presumably, if you did the same thing, it would have the same effect. i wonder, do you have any prediction as to the heart come of that? >> t data that has been collected so far, there is no evidence of dispersants for oil entering the food chain. there has been a very extensive program of sampling of marine flora and fauna. there has been no evidence since

the 28 of july that any oil or dispersants have been detained in the water problem. since the 28th of july, all of the sampling that has been taken across the water column has not identified any residual÷???ñ?

>> today, we will hear testimony of the importance of this bill and the issues pertaining to the situation that is not only difficult to comprehend, but also tragic. the commercial exploitation of children, many of them u.s. citizens. on june 23 of this year, the gentle lady from new york and the gentleman from new jersey introduced this bill into committee. it was introduced primarily for the need to a comprehensive

victim-centered approach for children in the united states and providing shelter and rehabilitative services tailored to the needs of the survivors of this particular crime. it also provides information to track missing and exploited children. the funding is also provided to law-enforcement to increase improved and -- increase and improve investigation and to prosecutors to increase the number of cases brought to trial enter shelters to tailor their needs to the vote -- to tailor services to the needs of the victims. it is important we understand the term "domestic minor sex trafficking." it is child sex slavery, child sex trafficking, prostitution of children, commercial exploitation of children, and

rape of a child. the shared host institution -- the shared hope institution indicates that it is referring to some of our most vulnerable victims of sex trafficking, that is, children in need of understanding and specialized treatment. working with law enforcement that they are correctly identified as victims. nationally, children run away from home each year. it is estimated that --

sadistically, approximately 150,000 children are referred into prostitution each year, although, there are so -- some instances -- of these children come from all backgrounds. they come from all socioeconomic backgrounds. usually, beginning around 12 years of age. many come from homes where they have been abused. one study concluded that 59% of miners arrested for prostitution vegas hadosin a las been victims of sexual abuse in the home. the 74% have run away from home prior to rest. they are runaways or children in foster care system and child protective services and they come by many different names such as those. during today's hearing,

representatives maloney and smith will testify about the victim support act of 2010, which they introduced to specifically deal with the exploitation of children. we will also hear from a woman who has devoted her life to helping victimized children here and abroad the second panel will discuss how we are helping her children and ways in which law enforcement community is not ing this demand, but also the lessons learned and the resulting law enforcement community progress in labeling these children as victims rather than criminals. we will hear from companies such as craigslist and we will get

information on whether the company's move to remove the adult services section is permanent. at this time, it should be clear that the old issue is not just craigslist, but rather, the issue of what role the internet plays in facilitating the sex trafficking of miners. i would like to thank all of our witnesses in advance and those individuals and organizations who contributed to the preparation of this hearing. and most of all, i want to thank all of people present for you are doing to protect our children. it is now my pleasure to present the ranking member of the committee. >> thank you, chairman. the sex trafficking of miners is -- minors is the ticket advantage of children that are already at risk and suffering from abuse. i saw that as a judge.

in response -- the response to human trafficking in the united states is focused on providing assistance to victims of trafficking and arrest of traffickers. in june of 2003, the fbi in conjunction with the department of justice's travel exportation and obscenity the center for missing and exploited children launched an initiative aimed at the growing problem of domestic sex trafficking of children in the united states. it has resulted in approximately 38 task forces and working groups throughout the united states. these efforts bring federal, state, and local law-enforcement agencies, including local prosecutors and social service providers, together for the coordination of cases and training opportunities

innocence lost campaigns usual began as local operations. the initial arrests are often for state, or local charges, and it is later that the fbi or department of justice review the case to see if filing of federal charges is the proper it. to be effective, we should also be addressed the demand side -- for an effective law enforcement and prosecution initiatives that target those who do the actual trafficking in those the purchase commercial sex. prosecuting crimes are generally of a local nature. however, all law enforcement must address the interstate trafficking problem which is certainly a federal issue that resists tossing kids in jail

while ignoring a lot of problems. while the goal of eliminating sex trafficking and assisting authorities in this effort are laudable, caution must be exercised so there is not a gradual move towards federalization of local prostitution-crimes. caution must also be exercise to ensure that the relatively limited resources that are or will be available to the victims of these crimes are spent on those that have been truly victimized. for instance, i am concerned about a provision in h.r. 5575 which authorizes the grant money to treat "johns"who engage in lieu ofs, and do a proxy

prosecution. they may have enough money themselves without taking money away from young victims of trafficking. this is a complicated problem. the solution will not be easy. we need to bring together the experts that experience in different areas, and we are making strides toward solution. i appreciate your being here today. we appreciate your diligence and committed efforts on behalf of the victims of this crime. and i do look forward to hearing your testimony. thank you very much. i yield back. >> i will ask other members -- do you have a statement? >> yes. just to accentuate what you are saying and draw a close to home, mr. chairman, i want to thank you for all in this hearing, but the offenses you describe -- child sex slavery,

prostitution of children and the rape of a child among others -- you would like to think or i imagine this would be in some third world country or at least not in nice neighborhoods, but you can go out into lake view, one of the nicest communities in the city of chicago and the nicest areas you'd ever want to live in, you will see social service agencies trying to find the kids, runaway kids, who are exposed or ball rolled to these offenses are right there and some of the nicest -- exposed or vulnerable to these offenses right there in some of the nicest neighborhoods. unfortunately, they are there from within. the fault lies within ourselves. we have to look at the people who are committing these offenses and recognize that they are not far away. i appreciate all those law enforcement agencies, social service agencies and not a fraud

agencies that try to help. >> other members, without objection, will be able to enter statements into the record. we have two distinguished panels with us today. our first panel consists of four members of congress as well as an esteemed former member. our first witness is carolyn b. maloney who represents the 14th district of malone. she is the first woman to represent them. 111th congress, she was a senior member of the house financial services committee and the oversight and government reform committee, and a co- founder of the house and 9/11 commission caucus. she is the lead sponsor of h.r. 5575. our second is cumbersome and jackie speer, first elected in april -- our second is congresswoman jackie spear.

she authored more than 300 bill signed into law. she serves on three key committees in the house, the committee on financial services, on oversight and government reform, energy independence and global warming. our next witness will be congressman ted, a prosecutor and judge in houston for over 30 years before presenting the second congressional district of texas. serving as the victim rights caucus a founder. he has been pivotal in passing legislation to safeguard our children, legislation such as the child creditor act that later became the adam walsh child safety act. and also the needs and issues -- making sure that the needs and issues of the victims of crime are equally addressed. [unintelligible]

he currently serves as the ranking republican on three congressional panels, foreign affairs subcommittee on africa and global health. he is also the ranking member on the commission on security and cooperation in europe and the congressional commission on china. he is the author of america's three landmark anti human trafficking laws including the trafficking victims protection act of 2000, a lot designed to prevent modern-day slavery and enhanced civil and criminal penalties against traffickers. he is a co-sponsor of h.r. 5575. and finally, a former congressman and linda smith represented washington state from 1994-1998. in the fall of 1998, she traveled to mumbai and visited one of the worst brothel districts in the world.

this compelled her to found shared hope international. through this organization, she built partnerships with local groups to provide shelters were women and children can live with no time limit. these villages of hope have a holistic approach to recovery, including education and job skills training. in 2007, shared hope international produce a report in documentary featuring footage of world sexed traffickers and buyers. that documentation found that startling numbers of american children are being trafficked with in the u.s. borders. we will begin at this time with representatives malone. >> thank you. thank you so much, chairman scott, and ranking member judge gohmert, for your leadership.

and for being on the front lines of battling this devastating problem that is found in the backyards of american cities. as co-chair of the human trafficking caucus, i have been working on these issues with representative chris smith and others for many years. today's hearing is an important opportunity to educate people about the reality of the trade in human lives and work towards its elimination. the sex trafficking is the slavery of the 21st century. human trafficking it is a $10 billion industry worldwide. it is the third largest organization -- organized crime ring in history, proceeding only by drugs and guns. but unlike those, which can be sold only once, the human body can be sold over and over and over again until it is destroyed. too many people believe that child sex trafficking is a problem only in foreign

countries, but experts estimate that a minimum of 100,000 children in the u.s. are exploited through commercial sex every year. mr. chairman, as you know, the in demand sex trafficking bill and the force -- the other bill we worked on require the justice department come forward with the study on the problem in the united states. we still have not gotten that study. we know that 400,000, according to the state department, our traffic internationally, but we have no numbers of the problem that is growing in the united states. although it is hard to believe the average age for first exploitation is a young girl's 12-13 years of age, these are our daughters, their schoolmates, their friends. in fact, this past june, in brooklyn, in new york city, eight people were indicted with

charges that they forced girls as young as 15 into prostitution. these young women were recruited from local middle and public high schools. there were threatened with the violence and kept out of contact with family and friends. law enforcement in the york believes that many of the missing children that are reported are literally children that are stolen or coerced into sex trafficking. there are disturbing stories that come to my office about walking down the street and then coming up and tried to shove girls into cars. and they get away. assume they were shot in the car. then that grow would be one of the missing children that ran away. so i think this is a huge problem in our country. and i thank you for looking at it with this important hearing. despite the needy, a congressional research service

report that are requested found that funding for specialized services and support for victims of domestic minority sex trafficking are extremely limited. -- minor sex trafficking are extremely limited. we spend more in our country on the victims overseas than we do in our country. throughout the country, organization specializing in sex trafficking collectively have fewer than 50 beds to address the needs of we do not know how many victims in our country. and this is totally unacceptable. after hearing from former victims, season it cops and hard-hitting prosecutors about the horrors of domestic minor sex trafficking, i knew something had to be done. working with others, we have introduced the domestic minor sex trafficking deterrent and victims support act of 2010.

this bill takes of multidisciplinary cooperative approach to shutting down child sex trafficking and offering rehabilitation for its survivors. through a series of block grants, the bill would provide care for victims and shelter, including specialized counselling, clothing, and other daily needs to keep victims from returning to the streets. it creates a comprehensive, victim-centered approach to addressing this sex trafficking of miners. it aims to ensure adequate resources for law-enforcement and prosecutors in to rescue victims and put camps behind bars. police across our country do not have the resources. prosecutors did not have resources. it provides funding to implement improvements in the national crime information center which tracks information about missing and exploited children with the core of that -- the goal of identifying the children who are at high risk. the portly, the legislation will strengthen deterrence and

prevention programs aimed at potential buyers. it will focus exclusively on minors, those under 18 years of age, increase the share of funding available for shelters. lack of proper shelters often forced law enforcement to send victims to juvenile detention facilities were there -- were there is no access to appropriate services, or releasing them, knowing that they will end up back in the hands of their pimps, . in july, the caucus held a briefing to address the shift of sexual exploitation from the streets to craigslist and other online venues where children are marketed for sex. the internet has changed the way sex slavery operates, but craigslist announced it is shutting down its adult services section from his website in the

united states. i look forward to hearing from the representatives from craigslist as we work together to eradicate this violence and protect our most vulnerable children. i hope we will hear from craigslist today, that they will be shutting down the erotic pages in the more than 250 cities that feature this section. we can no longer ignore that children in this country are being exploited for economic gain. we have a moral obligation to help the neglected victims of sex trafficking and to crack down on their abusers. thank you very much for this opportunity, and for your studied attention to this. i know from past experience, when you get involved, things happen. thank you, mr. chairman and ranking member judge gohmert. >> thank you very much. >> jackie spears. >> thank you for holding this

hearing. this is a human tragedy, a national tragedy. up to 300,000 children in our country are enslaved sexually. the number ris anywhere from 100,000 - 300,000. i attempt to u.s. attorneys. i spoke to the fbi -- i talked to u.s. attorneys. i talked to the ceo of craigslist. i talked to the national center for missing and exploited children, and i talked to many victims. one victim when i asked, how many times were you forced to do this today? a minimum of 10, a maximum of 15 times a day. she was 17 years of age. to put very simply, houston, we

have a problem. it is not just in houston. it is in a glance at, san francisco, oakland, new york. -- it is in atlanta, san francisco, oakland, and the york. there are reasons. first, the internet. today, perpetrators hide behind their personal computers and have a child at their doorstep with a click of a button. between 2004, 2008, child sex trafficking complaints originating from the internet actually grew by 1000%. and that is just the number of complaints, not the total volume. in fact, estimates are that on craigslist alone there are more than 3.2 million posts on the

adult services section a year. and this section has been taken down very recently, but just to give you an appreciation of how widespread this is. further, websites are immune from being held liable for these crimes. in an effort to spark innovation, congress passed the communications decency act in 1996. today, web sites escape liability when an ad on their site results in child prostitution, rape, or even death. i am pleased to see that our representative of craigslist is your period daughter is a constituent in my district. so i recognize full well what we are taking on here. thinly disguised ads on craigslist received three times the response. when they say, look to the other

sides, remember that they have been the 800 pound gorilla in the industry of sex trafficking of children. recent reports speculate that the advertisements that previously appeared in adult services sections will migrate to other portions of the side. let the company not forget that control the activities of their sight. if they are truly committed, they will exercise due diligence. that said, craigslist is not a lone wolf. redbook.com is equally as horrific. we must consider a response within the confines of the first amendment. child sex trafficking has been decriminalized we passed tough laws and then they sit on the shelves. even though the trafficking victims protection act imposes a lifetime sentence on those convicted of trafficking, it is

rarely used in prosecutions. we should all ask the question, why is it? during a seven year period, 60% of child exploitation cases presented to the u.s. attorney's office, 60% have been declined prosecution. meanwhile, in contrast, just 15% of drug trafficking and 26% of weapons charges were declined. why the disparity? our priorities are clearly out of balance and perpetrators are taking full advantage. in fact, a pimp selling four children can earn over $600,000 a year. today, we live in a country where a person is more likely to go to jail for selling marijuana than for selling a child in sex. in san francisco, where my

district is located, only one fbi agent is assigned to work with law enforcement. the u.s. attorney's office in the name of curtailing sex trafficking. further, the inability to bring trafficking to justice is directly tied to inadequate victims services. corals were rescued from prostitution typically come from -- and girls who are arrested for prostitution typically come from an abusive household. victims were rarely report the identity of their trafficker because they fear retaliation. these children have been traumatized. they have been brainwashed. they have been abandoned. and they need specialized services and resources for a successful recovery. it is a travesty that only five residential facilities specific to this population exist across this country. ongresswoman malone;''s bill

is important, but the money should be increased tenfold. again, thank you for taking up this very serious issue. >> thank you. >> chairman scott, and ranking thank youny haywardjudge gohmer for a holding this hearing. we're only beginning to hear about the sex trafficking that preys on our children in the united states. as co-chair of the victims of rights caucus along with my friend from california, we are concerned about the treatment of domestic crimes sex trafficking victims appeared the fb. the fbi calls it the most overlooked and under investigated form of child sexual abuse in america. why is this the case? according to the fbi, it is because too many people believe that child prostitution is a

victimless crime and that the children involved are criminals themselves this kind of thinking is absurd. these children are victims of crime. the man that by the young girls for sex are guilty of exploitation and abuse and they are criminals. and the traffickers are the filth of humanity and they are criminals. as one of friend of mine said, when you see one, judge ,, rope. a houston is one of the main hubs. in recent years, the city has made strides towards addressing this issue. we have one of the 42 human rescue alliance groups in the country in houston. together with the fbi, they have rescued 140 domestic victims.

numerous traffickers have been prosecuted receiving life sentences. i met with the human trafficking alliance. included in this group as a law- enforcement leader in texas. he and his officers told me that one of the biggest issues they face in combating trafficking is how to care for the victims. more specifically, they told me there is better care available to international trafficking victims that the rescue and houston then there is for our own citizens that are traffic. consider what is available to an international trafficking victim. and i am not saying we should not help these victims, but here is what is available. they are eligible to apply for a visa which allows them to stay lawfully in the united states. immigrants service groups help them apply for free legal, medical, mental, housing and educational services. they can receive care in a residential facility or a long-

term foster homes. basically, we provide care to international trafficking victims. here are the resources available to the victim of domestic trafficking in houston. at the moment, law enforcement agents come across these victims they are required to take them into custody. once in custody, domestic refiner -- minor victims can only gain access to these services being labeled as delinquents and charged with the class b misdemeanor of prostitution. to gain access to short-term services, i have to be arrested, obtain a criminal record, before they can be served. furthermore, the short-term services did not begin to address the severe physical or psychological trauma that these girls encounter. without access to specialized care, it is shown that they return to their traffickers and continue the cycle of abuse because they have no other place to go. we need in houston and

throughout the nation all long- term residential treatment facility to care for victims of domestic minor trafficking. any legislation that addresses this issue must include this component. we have made improvements in caring for the victims better traffic across our border, as we should. we need to ensure that we are doing the same for our own children. and those that expose these children -- exploit these children, hold them accountable. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> mr. smith? >> thank you very much, mr. chairman, and a thank-you to the ranking member for convening this very important hearing on domestic human trafficking. mr. chairman, i want to thank you for this hearing. we were able to pass the megan's law recently. it prevents those who abuse children and others to sex

crimes. before they travel abroad, the countries of destination are guys in a timely fashion. you helped us get as -- get that through the judiciary committee. the legislation would make it difficult for those who commit sex crimes and exploit children abroad to get into the united states. if we have that information, and it is actionable, if we can get this law passed all over the world, we can protect our children from these predators who make their way to the united states. in the trafficking victims protection act, severe forms of human trafficking is defined as sex trafficking in which the commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which a person and used to perform such an act has not attained 18 years of age. any person under the age of 18 and involved in commercial sex x is a trafficking victim.

and those who exploit and abuse these individuals can be subjected to long prison sentences including up to life imprisonment itself. at the time of our first trafficking law, we had no idea how many domestic victims this trafficking problem, this new modern-day slavery actually included. the excellent work of linda smith of share quote international -- share hope international, and research at the national center for missing and exploited children has the number of domestic victims at at least 100,000, and the average age when they first got exploited in this fashion was 13. 13 years old. these are our daughters. these are our children. driven by demand and fueled by the ease and secrecy of the internet, we are facing a huge and escalating crisis of child sex trafficking in the united states. the fbi has coordinated the

innocence lost initiative with local law enforcement, state prosecutors, and social service providers since 2003 to fight domestic minor sex trafficking. using this framework, the fbi conducted at least four cross country raids to catch pimp and rescue sex workers and working the streets. they rescued over 100 child victims ranging in age from 5 to 17 years old. over 1600 law enforcement officers from 120 state and local agencies participated between june, 2003, and october, 2009. they rescued nearly 900 children. i applaud the hard work and coordination of state and federal resources to stop domestic minor sex trafficking, but there is a huge gap in the numbers we rescued versus the estimated 100,000 plus victims

out there. that is why it is so important and joining carolyn malone and introducing h.r. 5575 to respectfully ask the committee to mark up as soon as possible this very important legislation that will at long last provide the necessary refuge, the theters, the beds -- estimate is about 50 beds available for domestic minors and sex victims in the united states. that is appalling. this legislation would change that by providing minimal 86 grants of $2.2 million a piece that -- six grants of to $0.2 million apiece that would provide help. we need to do tenfold. because there really is a great need that has gone on that in

the area of places, beds, and centers. let me say to my colleagues that the internet has enabled the misuse of domestic trafficking in the united states. it has opened up a new front in the war on trafficking, allowing demand to run free with few obstacles. therefore, we must develop more effective safeguards and enforce existing laws to ensure that obscenity nor child pornography, neither of which is protected speech, to have so many victims. technology can help if used properly. such mechanisms include common- sense measures including digital tagging, community flagging, and a host of very important tools that could be used. my time is up. i will finish on this. we also need to weigh in on the ways that people, young children

are moved around. last summer, this past summer, i convened a group of flight attendants led by american airlines which has a great program that really needs to be replicated worldwide so that the flight attendants and crews will recognize the person who is in traffic -- being trafficked, across borders or states, and take action. not in a vigilante type of white. alert the pilots so that when this individual gets off, the right law enforcement asset, can be waiting there at the gate. there were instances after instances told where it just did not look right. and the flight attendants and watched what was going on, got into a conversation, perhaps when the young lady was going to the restroom and told the pilot who told law-enforcement. and those young ladies were

rescued. we need to close up every means of moving victims across state lines and international lines as well. american airlines has a great program going. i urge the committee take a look at that as well. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. ms. smith? >> thank you, mr. chairman and ranking member and all of you in these tough times who are sitting through a committee. thank you for prioritizing this. it is an honor to testify on domestic minor sex trafficking. this is a name that we have given to sexual exploitation of u.s. citizen children through prostitution, pornography, and sexual entertainment. then name reflects that this is human trafficking as defined in the federal trafficking protection act of 2000. victims of domestic minor sex trafficking should receive the full benefit of a victim --

protection, services, and the rights of light in it. and i guess, most of the time, they do not. furthermore, those who buy their innocence must receive the full penalty called for in the law. i would like to summarize my comments and submit them and the two reports, the domestic minor sex trafficking, prostituting america's children, for the record. >> without objection. >> thank you. a brief background about shared hope. we started rescuing and restoring it girls who were traffic, in the sex trafficking or around the world in 1998. without going into that, we started studying the markets around the world and we studied four specifically to compare them and how demand was facilitated. these four countries included the u.s., and that led to us doing more research for the department of justice.

essentially, we came up with the national report on domestic minor sex trafficking, america's prostituted children. the report reveals the following. american girls of all descriptions are being pimped and were found in a gentlemen's clubs to escort agencies and our websites and every major city that we researched. america's youth are at risk for extreme violence to prostitution. there are at least 100,000 children exploited in prostitution every year in the united states. and the average age is a minor, middle school girl that is 13 years old. now, this was the alarming thing. i wanted to stop and not do anything after i started figuring this out. demand for younger victims was the factor driving recruitment and trafficking of our middle school girls across america now, i knew it would be hard for you

to believe what i am telling you today, but this is not a place that anyone exaggerates. sometimes you hear things that are hard to believe. when i got the investigative a video back and i started going through it i said, i do not believe that this occurr. first of all, i wrote a book to let people know what it was like being a 13-year-old girl inside. from the girls were rescued, they are real characters woven into a novel. today, you cannot read that book. i thought i would bring one of my girls with me in a video. this is a new girl in protection right now. i would like to introduce a girl we will call lacy. she was traffic on her 13th birthday. a sunday school girl. had not had a boyfriend. on her 50th birthday, we got her back out of a hospital -- on her 15th birthday. i want her to tell you what it is like. [no audio]

[no audio] as they bring us up, i would like to commend craigslist for being here today. and for shutting down the side. i have not had a girl that was not marketed online and most of them are marketed through craigslist that have worked in the united states. i hope we will hear a promise, lacey, i hope you will get to hear. and the 12-year-old in the front row. i just noticed she is here. i hope we will hear that this

will not happen on their website again. we challenge other sites around the nation, those who are marketing children today, to follow the good leaf of craigd of craigslist. i want to comment on the two bills before us. both of them make a point that is really important to make. they lead with statements, they include an emphasis on what drives trafficking, and that is men buying commercial sex at younger and younger age. i commend all of the catalyst for putting this as a top issue, for taking it on to the agenda. in closing, i would like to simply say thank you to all those girls, including lacy, who now have a chance to be saved because it is a public issue. we worked with law enforcement, and non-government groups. we found a placement for this girl and she is now save the people -- and people now realize

she is a victim and not a criminal. let's see if we can get lazy now. acy now. -- get lacy now. they tried it this morning. it worked this morning. i will summarize lacy for you. i was called on the case and they had a girl and a hospital. a probation officer had connected with her earlier, and a few months before that, she was picked up on prostitution. this makes me so sad because she was adopted at 13. the good part is she had a probation officer of wonders to she was a victim. we were called to comment to find a way to find placement for her. moved to another state, found a

placement, and moved again and found another placement. but this little girl -- i call her a little church girl. her whole week before that was going to youth groups and church. she had to have somebody stop her from many months. she had younger brothers and sisters. they threatened her with those young brothers and sisters. they knew where she lived. they eventually got her. she would stay in slavery, going to school, because they could get her brothers and sisters. this is a 13-year-old girl. she turned 15 last month. she is the same age as my dentist granddaughter. this is not acceptable. is -- she is the same age as my granddaughter. we need to rescue and restore all girls and women that come to us. we have to move the domestic traffic victim, who is over 90% of the victims, up to a point

in priority, because it is just not acceptable to leave these children as criminals with no protection and to let the men that are buying them walk free. thank you. >> we are going to try the video one more time. >> it did actually work this morning. this is so common. we willesn't come up, make it available to each of the committee. you are hearing. >> [unintelligible] [voice altered] >> thank you.

i think your patience has been great. again, we will get this to you. >> we are expecting votes any minute now. perhaps, they can continue to work on that in a minute. >> the voice is changed, and her face is covered for the same reason. >> can we stop it? great. thanks. could i say, obviously, you have made a real difference. thank you. >> if we could work on the video to see if we can get the video. we will be in recess for half an hour. we have five votes, and it will take half an hour. we will reconvene at 2:30. the subcommittee stands in recess. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] we ?

i think it is about two minutes long. >> [unintelligible] [voice altered] 3:00 in the morning,

and it was pretty much -- for about 30 minutes. i couldn't stop crying. >> did they ever do advertising online? >> online, yes. craigslist and stuff. and 50's.ir 40's i said, i will not do that. sex is not something bought or sold or anything. she's like, it is. it was like everything i ever believe it was thrown in the garbage. those were silly, childish dreams. now i can beat a kid aga a kid . [inaudible]

." >> judge gohmert will be with us shortly. let me begin by introducing our second panel. our first panel will be the national coordinator for child exploitation and prevention and interdiction in the office of the deputy attorney general of the department of justice. this position was created by congress and it -- in the protect our children act of 2008. in this capacity, she is charged with formulating and implementing a natiol strategy to combat child exploitation.

she serves as the justice department's liaison to international, state, and local agencies. and she will be submitting our report on the national strategy to congress. she also serves as an assistant u.s. attorney for the northern district of georgia. a second witness, ernie allen, is the co-founder of the national center of missing and exploited children. he has served as president and ceo of the nonprofit since 1989. under his leadership, more than 155,000 children have been recovered. they have increased their from 66% --ate a 24-hour missing children hot line, and training for more than 276,000 law enforcement officers. our third witness has been

actively raising awareness of the commercial sexual exploitation of children since 2000. a high-profile national advocate on the issue of domestic sex trafficking as well as a survivor herself of minor sets trafficking, she started her own nonprofit, courtney's house, which provides services for domestic youth. it is the first group home for sex-trafficked children in the washington, d.c., metropolitan area. the next witness -- we wanted to have mr. lungren introduce, but he has been detained. r next witness is the appointed chief of police but in california in november, 2008. he has been working to combat human trafficking since 2001 when he developed a problem- solving methodology known as the care model -- custodial,

analysis, response, the valuation. he is an architect of one of the first anti-human trafficking task forces in the united states. similar task forces were announced in 42 cities throughout the united states. at the request of the department of justice in 2009, he authored national guidelines. is the national director of the national district attorneys association national center for prosecution of child abuse, where she coordinate and manage his activities and operations of the cent. she trains a child abuse professionals on investigation and prosecution. in 2004, she coordinated the development on two trial

advocacy courses for prosecution of online child sex trafficking. deborah richardson is responsible for implementation of a strategic plan that includes programming, research, a valuation, communications and project initiatives of this global network of 165 women's funds in six continents. she has designed a model programs -- center to end adolescent sexual exploitation, angeles house, which is the only safe house in the southeast for sexually exploited girls, and she has been invved in the creation of multi disciplinary systems of care. her organization has some shocking recordings which she will describe.

our seventh witness is william clinton and paul, the director of customer service for craigslist. in that capacity he served as their primary contact person for the law enforcement community in the past six years. he works directly with police officers, federal agents, prosecutors whose investigations involve craigslist content, and personally testifies in judicial proceedings throughout the united states. elizabeth mcdoogal is a partner in a litigation practice. she focuses on internet-related disputes, online safety, and internet -- intellectual prerty. she maintains an active prbono practice focusing on the combating human trafficking. areas of expertise include combating the use of services for all unlawful activities, combating abuse of rvices for -- combating this use of online

and offline content and combating on lawful intrusions into client services and systems. she also provides pro bono representation to nonprofit organizations on these issues with a particular emphasis on anti-human trafficking strategy efforts and measures. all the witnesses written statements will be entered io the record in its entirety. we will ask each witness to summarize his or her testimony in five minutes or less and help stay within that time limit. there is a lighting device on the table that will start agreeing, goo yellow, and with one minute remaining -- and go red when the five minutes have expired. >> [inaudible] >> i apologize. >> i just notice dd that mr.

lungren is here. >> if i could just say this about the chief. weave had some of ours and our district on thissue of human trafficking. unfortunately, my area is one of the worst in the entire united states. all lot of people would have a hard time believing that in saamento,e happen to be at the intersection of north-south interstates and east-west interstates, and the chief who is from the small community of truckey -- if you have ever been skiing and lake tahoe, you go to his district. i asked how they go from new york to his district? he said it helps if you like to ski. he is an internationally recognized expert on this program. he has set up programs not only in the u.s. but in foreign countries. his sensitivity to this issue is absolutely palpable. and i am so happy he was able to

come here. thank you, mr. chairman, for allowing me to put in a couple words. >> i am sorry. >> good afternoon, mr. chairman, ranking member judge gohmert, who is not back in the room yet, and members of the subcommittee. i am the the national coordinator for child exploitation and interdiction. i am tied with the attorney general's office at the department of justice. am the general prosecutor. prior to 2002, i was an assistant district attorney in the state of georgia for six years. my first trial as an assistant district attorney was a child exploitation case. iave specialized in this my entire career. and it is an honor for me to appear before you to dcuss department of justice efforts around the country to prosecute individuals involved in a prostitution of children. while unfortunately, children or around the world are victimized

by various forms of exploitation, my focus is the commercial exploitation of american children by american citizens that occurs solely within the borders of our country. i will describe for you the efforts undertaken by the department of justice to combat job exportation in all forms. as i amure you know, the department submitted its first- ever national strategy for child exploitation prevention to congress on august 2. this initial strategy contains three parts. a comprehensive assessment of the threat of child exploitation poses. our review of the current efforts to prevent and interdict child exploitation across the government. and finally, our comprehensive approach to deterring it, preventing, and interdicting these terrible crimes. the commercial sexual exploitation of american children is a form of human trafficking. it is often prosecuted under the sex trafficking provision of 89 united states code section 1591.

those who expit children for commercial gain, exploit the vulnerability is of their victims. american children are recruited from all socio-economic classes and races. they become victims because of abandonment, abuse, or unhappiness. these children targeted by pimps are typically runaways, for ways, are victims of sexual abuse. they are promised stability, love, attention and a home, but instead, find themselves forced into prostitution. american pimps can easily replace one child with another. th seem to have little fear of law enforcement, confident in their ability to keep their victims from cooperating against them. sadly, they are confident that they have customers that are willing to pay to sexually

assault these children. the department of justice is heavily involved in combating this grave and growing problem. while it is difficult to imagine, children as young as 11 are targeted for commercial sexual exploitation. in june, 2003, as the committee heard, in order to address this growing problem, the department, with the fbi and the department child obscenity section, in conjunction with the national center for missing and exploited children, launched in the innocence lost national and is not it. each of the task forces and working groups without -- throughout united states work in tandem with federal agents, state and local law enforcement and with the u.s. attorney's office says. they bring together federal, state, and local law enforcement, prosecutors, and social service providers to engage in training. to date, this innocence lost

initiative hasesulted in nearly 600 convictions. and the location and the recovery of more than 1100 children. investigative efforts have increased and resulted in substantial sentences for those convicted, including four life sentens and many others ranging between 25 and 45 years. recognizing that a gap in services often lead to difficulty in gaining a victims cooperation, the department's office for victims of crime is funding three demonstration projects focused on providing services to domestic children exploited through prostitution. these projects will identify promising practices in the delivery of an array of services to these victims, and we look forwar to reports on these projects. as i noted at the beginning, the department has recently submitted its national strategy for child exploitation to congress, and i brought a copy

with me today for those of you who have not seen it. we have also already begun implementing the goals and priorities contained therein. when we submit our next report, i expect we will be able to tell you of the strong progress we have made in the fight agast all forms of child exploitation. as the note and a national strategy, we are committed to a mall site -- multifaceted attack on three fronts. prevention, deterrence, and interdiction. each of these three is critical to our success in this fight. we are engaged with all of our law enforcement apartments are not in addition. -- our law enforcement partners in interdiction. the message we are sending with our national strategy is clear -- the department of justice is fully engaged in preventing, deterring, in interdicting these heinous crimes. our goal is to prevent

exploitation and to aggressively pursue those who prey on our children with strong enforcement, vigorous prosecution, and serious jail time for those who believe they can harm our children with impunity. thank you. thank you. thank you for the support you continue to show us in california. i am going to jump to the end as i speak to the issues that has been spoken to in many representations' here today. part of my concern is in the use of the term "slavery." my concern rest there because it from the street level we can attest that what is going on in

this domestic sex-trafficking is, in fact, an act of slavery. where the problem exists is that there is not the emphasis in responding to this problem of slavery that we saw some 200 years ago. if they shift was to occur, we would see the needed response for our children on the streets. i give that to mr. goldberg -- statement that it is hard to comprehend. it is hard to comprehend among law-enforcement circles. it causes inappropriate responses to a serious problem. it is an atrocity that is being perpetrated a month our

children. in the years following the passage through the ttba, we were estimating that 9% of law enforcement was unaware of this problem as it has manifested itself in this country little- known al it has manifested itself at in other parts of the world. the other parts of the world's side of this issue is part of the problem in that it largely perceived as something that goes on somewhere else and it is not happening here at home to our own children. that in itself les to another level of victimization for a tremendous problem that is going on in every major city, even in small cities around the world. we need to recognize that for what it is. the city of dallas, in the statistics that they have brought from their works, what

the statistics that they point out is that there is an 85% chance that if a teenage girl runs away she will be sexually exploited. the third time she will be a victim of human trafficking. there are great efforts going on and great cooperation going on between federal, state, and local enforcement officers and among the ngo officers. but from what i am seeing, it is happening in pockets around our country and with various levels of success. that is largely dependent upon issues related to education, training, and particularly resources for housing. some sources said managed to identify a victim of human

trafficking and the best that he has is to maintain the person in the back of a patrol car until they can make some sort of appeal to place this child who, if not properlylaced, was simply end up back on the street, in the system, and in the hands of the traffickers. when that child sees that is the system's response to the tragedy in which she has lived, there is no reason to have confidence in a justice stem to find a resolution to this problem. another matter that we would like to speak to very qckly in regard to the bill itself, i appreciate the concern about the program that pays for the education of the perpetrators on the demand side of is issue. quite frankly, if they have the money to paper the services,

then they should have the money to pay for being caught in the perpetration of this crime. i highly encouraged when considering this issue tt this only be the beginning of major movement towards combating this problem. if we truly regard it as an issue of slavery, we should get a response that slavery deserves on a wide scale and monumental level. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you mr. chairman. it has been said several times, but most americans believe that child trafficking only happens somewhere else. today i can report to you that it is happening to at least 100,000 u.s. children each year. yet heard the numbers from the members already. the primary basis for our

estimate is a study that the university o pennsylvania. u.s. children are at risk each year and 250,010 to 17 year olds are involved in commercials exploitation with 60% being run away or homeless kids. of that number, we believe that 100,000 are trafficking victims. one-third of street level prostitutes or lesshan 18. one-half of all street prostitutes are less than 18. since the launch of the essence lost mission, -- innocense lost mission, we have learned things. part of this is organized crime.

these kids are moved city to city. while it is not mafia type organized crime, in april the gambino crime family was indicted for selling kids for sex over the internet. organized crime is involved for two reasons -- low risk and high profit. we have learned as has been mentioned that these kids or victims. this truly is 21st century slavery. they lack the ability to walk away. the parents that use them are the criminals as are the customers that purchased them. these kids need to be rescued, not arrested. we have learned that the offenders do not just parade these kids on city streets anymore. we have seen over the past seven years that there has been gradual movement to the internet. the customers shopd on-line from the privacy of their own homes and hotel rooms.

that is why in 2008 the national center joined with connecticut and 40 other attorneys general with an agreement with craigslist. we recognize that law enforcement will never be able to arrest and prosecute everybody. if we are going to end child sexual trafficking, which is the goal, we need a multi-pronged attack that includes engaging big companies at the epicenter of the problem. why was the nonprofit national center a party to such agreement? first, it is what we do. secondly, congress has given the center 20 specific mandates including operating the cyber- tip line. working to prevent child sexual exploitation, and specifically working with law enforcement, internet service providers, electronic paynt providers,

and others to reduce the distribution on the internet of images of sexually exploited children. it was necessary and appropriate for us to be a party to the agreement. we have not received a dime from craigslist, nor will we. craigslist agreed to require credit-card verification, working phone numbers, and aid law-enforcement investigations in 2008. yet in several months, it was clear that the agreement was not having the intended effect. in 2009, craigslist agreed to take additional steps including shutting down an erotic services, replacing it with a new category in which all as would be manually screen with suspicious as be reported to the national center, new in graphic photographs were banned. while there were some impact, we concluded that it was not eliminating the problem. we pressed for additional sts.

it now appears that craigslist had shut down until services altogether. if this has occurred, we think it is a positive and constrtive step. however, we must broaden the focus beyond craigslist and urge every on-line classified site to take action, including flagging and reporting suspicious as to the national center cyber-tip line. in july, a maryland mother found 8 photograph of her daughter in a sex at. she contacted us. we worked with the maryland state police and the fbi -- and the fbi. the juvenile was recovered. the pimp was arrested. the child looked younger, but nobody reported it. we have received 137 reports from craigslist. they removed 725,000

advertisements. our message to these companies and the public is simple -- it b.c. it, it is suspected, if you know about it, report it. that is all law enforcement learns about these cases. we recognize that if we crack down in one area, some of this problem will migrate to other areas. that is progress, frankly. we follow the money. the goal is to destroy the business model of those who sell children for sex on the internet. t me mention briefly a few other priorities. first, many of these kids are missing children. our analyst are doing image matching, searching databases, trying to identify children who have been reported missing by their parents. yet some law enforcement agencies still do not enter them properly as requiredy federal law.

some do not report them at all. there must be comprehensive law enforcement training in how to recognize high risk victims and respond effectively. this is a complex problem that crosses political boundaries and jurisdictions. there needs to be strong cooperation between federal and state governments. in july, the national conference of state legislators adopted a strong policy on human trafficking calling for more services for victims, and greater federal-state dialogue and cooperation. there needs to be far more attention to prevention. increasingly our society is sexualizing children at younger and younger ages, leading some kids to view sexual exploitation as normal. we must keep them from becoming compliant becomes. as you have heard, we need to attack demand and we need to

correct a better understanding as to why there is such a large market for sex with kids. finally, we have got to provide more services for the victims. today there are some extraordinary programs doing heroic work. there are not enough of them and the ones that exist received insufficient funding. in conclusion, i am -- i can report that we are making progress. we think this bill is a great step forward. thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman and members of the committee. i am a surviv of child sex trafficking. i was 13 when i fell in love for the first time. he turned out to be a pimp. i was raped, manipulated, sold for sex, and beaten. i had a broken spirit when the police fou the at the age of 15.

sadly, they arrested me. i spent one year in juvenile detention. that was torture. this is the typical experience of a child sex trafficking but dumb. i was rescued from my pimp but was labeled a delinquent. it did not provide me wit the counseling or treatment for the trauma. i spent one year locked up and came out at the end with no referrals for services. nothing to help me go back dto have a normal childhood. i made it my mission to be part of the solution. a decade ago, i committed to providing specialized services that i did not receive when i was a victim. sarah and i will provide help to thousands of children used in

prostitution in our country every year. i found a house in the district of columbia at that provide outreach and specialized rvices. next i began developing a shelter for girls ages 12 to 18 in northern virginia. we are set to open this year. however, one of the gaps we have is the absence of the safe housing. appropriate shelter, specifically for boys and girls victims of domestic sex trafficking. it is destined to be a home for six people with a state of three years. it can take years for rape victim to recover. each victim requis a tailored their peak. this can only happen in a place safe from trauma. our annual projected budget is

$600,0. while this provides housing, counseling, therapy, as well as activities, foods, everything they need, it is supplemented to guess right now. reduced rent, guests of furniture and necessities, as well as sizable grants from donors. operation of law enforcement has been critical. as the most frequent first responders in the case of its child sex trafficking, it is critical that we accompanied them on that race to advocate for any victims identified at the same. we all agree with case management after the rescue which gives the victim confidence to work with law enforcement to build cases.

after the case is over, they will still continue to work with us to receive the proper treatment that they deserve. there are group homes and shelters across the country. some even have specialized shelrs for different types of sexual abuse. however, the sexual trauma suffered by victims requires a specialized environment. this population suffers from intensembarrassment and shame havingeen conditioned by their trafficker to blame themselves. the internet has played a big oft in the sec's traffic every client from boys to girls. every child we have has been sold on craigslist. the average in age from 11 to 17. everypimp has a small space page.

-- every pimp has a myspace page. they have job boards where they go online and post information on where to buy children. this is not only in the united states, this is worldwide. this has been going on for many years. we must do something about our children being sold on the internet. hon. chairman,embers of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to share my eeriences. as the voice of a survivor and now a leader for priding services, i must tell you that what you see for the average age for boys and girls is 11 to 12-years old. i urge you to pass the bill that will enable six locations around the coury to set up comprehensive responses to the

child sex trafficking occurring in their cits. the benefit of six shelters somewhere in the nation, likely doubling the number of beds currently advocating to victims, cannot be addressed estimated -- cannot be underestimated. thank you. >> thank you. >> chairman scott, members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify today on behalf of the national district attorneys association, the oldest and largest organization representing over 39,000 district attorneys, states attorneys, attorney generals, and counties, cities, and trouble prosecutors. they have the responsibility for prosecuting 95%. protecting our children from those who would cmercially

sexually exploit them remains one of the most important challenges facing america's criminal-justice system today. commercial sexual exploitation of children is particularly problematic since many criminal justice systems have only recently beg to address the victimization of our adolescence and our children that occurs in the guise of sex trafficking and prostitution. emerging research on the adolescent brain, the intimate partner dynamics of pimp-child relationships are helping to bring justice to those you are commercially sexually exploiting them. a program -- a provide technical assistance, training, and support for prosecutors charged

with protecting boys and girls in this country. i am a former prosecutor. i have served as a state and local prosecutor in multiple jurisdictions handling a range of internet partner violence and child abuse cases many of which involved victims of human trafficking. i applaud and thank you for recognizing the need to end human trafficking and slavery in this country. the leadership demonstrated by each of you who serve on the subcommittee suggests that the coordination of federal, tribal, state, and local efforts in this area is now widely recogzed as an increasing priority in the erican criminal-justice system. there are countless cas where juvenile justice responses, civil trial protections, and

criminal job protection -- a criminal -- the statutor framework which criminalizes adolescence stands in stark trends -- stark contrast which outlined protection for victims of trafficking. many jurisdictions have conflicting statutory framework support addressing the victimizatioof our children. as long as we are arresting the child victims we are facilitating the sex industry in this country. statutory framework provides unlimited opportunity for the underage trafficking big dumb to cooperate with the prosecution and make healthier choices fly in the face of our understanding of the adolescent brain. the internet partner dynamics, the post traumatic stress issues which are related to a history

of repeated sexual assaults, and the and ability of our job protection systems to respond appropriately to the needs of sexually assaulted children and children in our upholstered chair system. we have invited american -- we have invited medical partners to develop public health model for assessing the needs of these children. the framework is appropriate for responding to those who are commercially sexually exploiting our children. other frameworks might provide insight for better meeting the needs of the victims in these cases. the need for services is critical to improving the responses and procution prtices. another concern that has been largely overlooked is that many of the underage female victims in these cases have children or have -- or are pregnant.

job protection needs to be involved to consider carefully the needs of the second generation victims in these cases. also, we too often find the very inappropriately named john schools. from a linguistic and victims' perspective, john is a book in the bible, the name of my brother. >> good afternoon, chairman

scott and members of the subcommittee. i have worked for more than a decade on domestic sex trafficking. i have seen girls as young as 10-year old, handcuffed, and taken into detention. i would like to stop and think you r speaking on behalf of so many young girls who cannot speak for themselves. an independent tracking study released today by the women's funding network shows that over e past six months the number of under age girls traffic on line has risen exponentially. michigan, a 30.2% increase. minnesota, a staggering 64.7% increase. what you see on the projected slide duments what you have already heard, that it is the dominant source -- that the

internet is the dominant source for trafficking under age girls. it makes this crime practically risk-free. the men who have sex with innocent girls -- laws and not kept up with technology. toemonstrate my point, i brought some audiotapes tod which i am not able to hear, but i asked if i may submit them as part of my testimony. >> without objection. >> thank you. you'll hear a man calling on line and ordering sex from young girls. the young girl says, "i am just turning 16. is that ok?" the man says, "i wish she were 12." those voices are shocking. they demonstrate that every day

in every community calls are being made by men who are our neighbors and colleagues. mr. allen said a few minutes ago that we must follow the money. a report released today says where the money is. it demonstrates that on 12 on- line sites, they will account for $63 million in sex and ad revenue in 2010. until craigslist took down its site earlier this month, they were accounting for $30 million of the sales. the next competitor back page was $17 million. an independent study said that more than half of the man responding to these ads featuring young girls wanted to continue the transaction despite multiple warnings that the girl

they were about to buy was underage. as a matter of fact, according to our study, ads on craigslist received three times as many responses compared to back page. craigslist initial response was a cease and desist demand. the woman funding network asked to sit down and talk to them about solutions. they declined. no response at all. we he the committee will ask questions. hal will it make sure that no girl is sold on its site, notwithstanding the significant role of the internet, we believe that public policy and grass- roots efforts can address this issue. the women's funding network is the largest network in the world and orates on six

continents. we have accelerated our efforts to end domestic sex trafficking. we are making an initial investment of $1 million to support the work of our member funds. this will go towards replicating the successful model that had amazing results in georgia. the women's foundation of minnesota, the new york women's foundation, and the dallas women's foundation of the first boards that are mounting a statewide efforts. the georgiou model combines independent research, law enforcement, and leadership. we are seeing that their numbers are trending downward. the women's bonding network will stand side-by-side with congress, law enforcement, advocacy organizations to use

their collective voices and the power of our members in 42 states of this country representing hundreds of thousands of women and men to end domestic trafficking of underage girls. finally, we ask for these facilitation and exploitation of burroughs -- girls. we as the department of justice to aggressively investigate and prosecute those who break federal law. we cannot prosecuteur way out of this issue. this is why we must address demand.

>> thank you, mr. powell. >> my name is william clinton powell, and i am the craigslist director of customer service and law enforcement relations. i served as the craigslist primary merely a son with the company since i joined in 2004. i appreciate the opportunity to meet with you this afternoon. given the short notice, jim was noavailable to travel to washington to testify today, d craig is focused primarily on his role as a member of my customer service team has not been involved in the day-to-day management of the company for about 10 years. i also wanted to echo the sentiments of speakers who have preceded me with respect to the horror and revulsion that we all feel about this issue. i alsogree with congresswomen

spears characterization of the issue as a human tragedy, because is. i would like to sell a few words about the service that craigslist provides. we are for local, on-line classified ad listings and discussion forums used by over 60 million americans each month. craigslist users post and respond to add to help them find basic necessities in their everyday lives, such as jobs, housing, second-hand items, local services, personal relationships and event listings. today craigslist is far and away the leading classified advertising service used in the united states. until recently, craigslist included an adult services category. it was created in 2001 at the request of craigslist users tired of seeing adult services at some mixed into the personal category. they wanted a separate category,

similar to what yellow pages, newspapers, and other advertising venues have done for a number of decades. working collaborative lee with attorneys general, law enforcement, company ngo's and other parties, who craigslist has developed leading industry practices including the foowing. educating and encouging users to report suspected trafficking and exportation, prominently featuring law enforcement contacts and hot lines for porting illegal activity, creating specialized victim search interfaces for law enforcement agencies, implementing a wide variety of technical screening and builder in measures, and mentally reviewing every adult service at prior to posting -- manually reviewing. to our knowledge, no other venue has adopted these best practices, and very cute in use have adopted more than one of the measures.

with bill craigslist has been one of the bright spots and correct -- success stories in th fight against trafficking in child exploitation. we have been told as much by experts on the frontlines, many of whom we have met witin person, from whom we have gathered helpful suggestions that we have incorporated. craigslist has been virtually alone among the many advertising venues carrying a dull ads in vigorously combating exploitation and trafficking. regarding cooperation with law- enforcement and other partners, craigsli facilitates literally billions of human interactions each month, many of them face- to-face. among tens of millions of u.s. users, nearly all of whom are well intentioned law-abiding citizens. the incidence of crime related use of craigslist is extremely low, but despite our best efforts, it is not and cannot be 0. when craigslist is used or misused for illegal activities,

we assist law enforcement in their investigations. the company has a long history of close cooperation of all enforcement. with respect to the subject matteror today's hearing, we pride ourselves on our responsiveness to law enforcement. our goal is to turn around in greece within one business day, rather than typically longer intervals at other internet companies. iave personally been told many times by law enforcement agents that craigslist is by far the most responsive internet company that they deal with. we participate actively in the cyber tip ne program administered by the national center for missing and exploited children. we have been done is that we are the only such participant making direct reports among countless other venues that carry adult service ads. we have assisted and tat- trafficking sweeps and have been

credited by agents with helping make them successful. we have engineered special tools to facilitate the work of law enforcement. these include creation of multiple special search interfaces that facilitate the search for missinghildren across all craigslist sites. in conclusion i would like to reiterate to items that may be helpful to the committee. first, craigslist discontinued its adult services section on september 3, 2010, and there are no plans to reinstate the category. those who formerly posted ads in the adult services category will now have to advertise elsewhere, and there is evidence that this process began immediately aft september 3 picked second, craigslist has always taken pride in assisting law enforcement, and we will continue to do so in the future. thanks for extending the invitation to meet with the committee.

>> good afternoon. thank you, chairman scott, and committee, thank you for having me here. i went a law firm and i am here today because i am counsel to craigslist on online safety, security, and abuse issues. i have been council in that regard for over two years. i want to say first that there is substantial common ground that we share with everybody on this panel today. we believe as they do that human trafficking in child exploitation is a heinous an insidious problem. we also agreed it is an extremely complex problem, a problem that involves the loring and seduction of victims. it involves a social condition that make them successful -- make victims susceptible. it involves finding a way to stop the demand, at the

predominantly men who create this market. because of the cplexity of the problem, it comes as no surprise that there is a significant divergence and even clash sometimes of use as to how to solve this problem. this is where we and some of the groups at the table today diverge. a number of the groups that have spoken have an approach towards solving the child sexual exploitation problem by deepak -- idealistic approach that if you eradicate prostitution and adult services in any venue, you will eradicate victims, there'll be no more victims if there can be no more services. craigslist approach, after getting input from interested pties including ngos, advocacy groups, law enfcement, politicians, and victims, craigslist has adopted an approach to container, control,

educate, and support and assist law enforcement. with respect to containment, craigslist created first the erotic services then the adult services category so that adult content, which includes legal, adult services, could be put in one location. that serves the purpose of making sure that people who do not want to see such content don't have to see that content. it also gives a single location for law and burke -- law- enforcement, rescue groups, families looking for children, one location to go to. it is like in a city that has owned a particar area for adult entertainment and activities, is confined to a particular zoned area. the police know where it is and can look for illegal activity in that region. with respect to controls, craigslist has implemented flagging that was committed as one way to help control the

problem on the internet. craigslist also engages in after reporting. they have numerous measures to filter out ads that could involve trafficking or child poography. it was implemented in conjunction with the national center for missing and employed it -- exported children. it -- missing and exploited children. i would like to be very clear about one. . i just said that the attorneys general was part of the request. it was their idea the craigslist charge -- it facilitates tracking the perpetrators behind posting ads. up until that time, craigslist had never charged for the adult serves and had never had any intention of charging for them.

with respect to the education craigslist provides, craigslist, long ago implemented the help page for the exploitation of minors that included reference to the national trafficking hot line. it developed over time to include rerenc to the cyber tip line as well as numerous local resources. on the entry pages to the adult services section, there were warnings and references to the cyber tip linend requests for users to also report if they suspecteillegal activity. with respect to referrals, assistance, and support for law enforcement,n addition to making referrals, craigslist has been foremost in responding rapidly to law enforcement and creating tools and continued

regular meetings with the attorneys general, and invited meetings with anybody who was willing to listen. georgia do not justice contacted craigslist with respect to the possibility of improving the ability to identify myers and photographs on line. we responded to the call the very same day engaged in a dialogue aut it. the woman at georgia juvenile justice suffered a death in the family and never responded. in terms of voluntary action by craigslist, when craigslist implemented these measures, credit card verification and on verification, a lot of ads started to migrate over to the therapeuc services category. craigslist voluntarily implemented the same measures there.

craigslist has more than fulfill the obligations under the joint statement, a now craigslist has also removed the adult services category. with respect to a couple of comments that were made, i want to point out there has been reference to a study by the shapiro group and there have been some numbers quoted and relied on by that to iicate that craigslist is somehow the worst offender out there, rather than the most active, aggressive online service, adding trafficking. it was submitted to this committee report today by the urban institute that addresses the report that was published by the shapiro report. i would just ask you to look at that and conder the comments if you choose to consider

information that has been derived from that report. of like to address mr. allen's point regarding reports that were made. he pointed out that craigslist blocked over 700,000 ads from posting on its adult services category and noted that only approximately 137 of those resulted in referrals. if you look at a chart that was provided this morning to the committee, you will see the activity spike in may 2009, when craigslist implemented the credit-card payment procedure, and its bike because the perpetrators knew that it s much easier for them to be caught on craigslist. they mov their traffic. you also see a significant spike occurring at the very end ofhe graph, which indicates september 3, when craigslist took down the

adult services section and the traffic moved again over to back page. my point there is that we identified only 137 referral toncmec because the people who trafficking children were smart enough to move to another site, because we have never been a friendly place for criminal activity. we apply at guideline of 21 years old rather than 18 years old, just to air on the safe side. if i could eliminate human trafficking in child exploitation in the world, we would do it in a heartbeat. it would not do it? with removal of adult services like the manual review, what has happened is the ads have migrated to other sites. the evidence of that is clear.

the chart i provided demonstrates that. consequently, craigslist fears that its utility to help combat child exploitation has been grossly diminished. however, we remain willing and able to work with the committee to do whatever we can to continue to fight this absolutely terrific problem. thank you. -- absolutely horrific problem. >> i will recognize myself for five minutes and begin with mr. powell. you have made a promise to monitor postings. is a logistically possible with the number of postings to actually review on an individual basis postings on your site? >> are you referring to the

content that appears after we removed the adult services category? we have a number of technological measures that are used, along with a manual review, that we feel does a good job at insuring that the content that had previously appeared in the manually reviewed adult services category does not migrate to the other categories that appear on our side, the personal categories come other services categories, and in addition to review by our staff of those categories in the past 10 days, the chart that ms. mcdougal referred with respect to increase in traffic on it back page seems to support that. >> if someone is communicating with craigslist, can you

identify technologically wch computer made that contact? >> yes. >> so you contract the person if necessary? -- so you can track the person if necessary? >> in cases where we have not received a request from law enforcement, we released the records to the district attorneys, the police officers, to the fbi agents and use the information we captor to do that tracking. >> i can further elaborate if that is helpful. what craslist can provide is the e-mail address and ip address of the person who posted the ad. craigslist cannot from their identify the specific person -- computer or indidual. you can identify who the service provider is for that ip address and you can contact the service provid and get from them the information as to who owns that ip address. law enforcement ca do it by

subpoena. you can do it in a civil suit by subpoena as well. >> what laws apply to internet providers like craigslist that would make them criminally liable for the postings? >> mr. chairman, i am not aware of any law that makes them liable, unless there was evidence that craigslist was a participant, specifically whether they were for example conspiring with those who were misusing their site, knowingly conspiring to violate the laws. what we have seen in the past -- >> what if they are not actively conspiring, what about just intentional neglect? or they just don't care. >> i am not aware of any federal statutes with respect to neglect being the standard. in federal law, the standard for

prosecution would be knowing or willful. when you are talking about the cases that have come up, the investigations that have been done by the fbi and others, i am not aware of anything that shows us that craigslist might be criminally liable. >> i am not just talking about craigslist. if the are no laws on the books now, are there any potential loss we could put on the books thawould pass constitutional muster that would be helpful in tracking down people that make these postings. >> the department of justice would be morthan happy to work with the committee and consult with you on whether or not there are tools with respect to the topic you are discussing. however, i would say that believe that at this point, we have the proper tools. we have what we need to prosecute the guilty, that is the people or using the internet, not jus craigslist and no just prostitution of children it is sexual exploitation of children in all its forms.

many predators who would prey on children utilize the internet, ms. use the internet to prate on those children. i don't think the one here would propose closing the internet. >> you have to parts to this transaction. one is the posting of the availability of the children, and the other is the demand side. are there any efforts to essentially set people up so that anyone who goes on the internet searching f people can get isnared in a sti operation? >> yes, mr. chairman. over the last year in the western district of missouri, operation guardian angel has been in effect. that is a law enforcement operation utilizing internet service providers like craigslist to post ads suggesting that they have

children who are under age that they would provide for sex. operation guardian angel, several people answered the ads. several people made arrangements over the telephone to meet with who they thought would be underage children for sex, and never prosecuted for those crimes. >> what is the typical -- and they were prosecuted for those crimes. >> would is a typical penalty for that customer >> it could be as little as five years or as many as life. >> on dateline nbc, the penalties they publish or a couple of months. is that typical? course that would be state and local. some of the charges utilized in

state and local offenses in certain jurisdictions might be misdemeanors. in federal law, is a felony. trafficking a job over the internet carries a mandatory minimum penalty of 10 years in prison. >> how much cooperation is there in federal, state,nd local law enforcement in these investigations and prosecutions ?uestio >> we believe it has been extremely successful. one thing we are doing is working with all of our partners, community-based, law- enforcement and industry based, in order to establish what are the best practices we are all engaging in, expandi on cooperation and collaboration with respect to child exploitation. we are looking into whether the innocence lost national initiative should be expanded to more areas across the country. i would say that where we have the innocence lost national

initiative task force and working groups, they are very successful. we have located over 1100 children since 2003 and prosecuted more than 600 offenders who have received some very substantial sentences. >> i appreciate your responding so quickly to the letter i wrote. you are to be admired. people like you are really important to solving problems, and i admire you for your courage to come here and talk to congress and tell your story. so thank you very much for being here. craigslist, it is good to hear that this site has been shut down. we want to make that clear that

you all have done that. is that correct, mr. powell? >> that is correct, yes. >> there are many issues. you have all talked about the problems and issues. i am concerned as a former judge and prosecutor about the victim, the girl, the young lady is not a criminal, but yet in our state courts, because of different reasons and excuses, they are still treated like criminals. to get in the system to get any kind of treatment, they are treated like criminals. we have a social do to fix that problem so these things do not continue to happen to young women in our country. the people involved, besides the victim, you have the tfficker, and you may have been present wh i made comments about what ought to happen to traffickers,

at least what texas ranger thinks ought to happen to traffickers. then you have the consumer, and i think we need to zero in on the consumer who pays for this crime, who pays in theense that they are able to exploit children. when there is a market, this crime will continue. when there ia buyer. so we need to make it more difficult for the consumer, who seems to be traditionally in this type of crime, gets away with it. you mentioned the fac that the missouri u.s. attorney's office had a project. i understand that they only prosecuted 10 cases, is that correct? >> i am not sure of the exact statistics. >> i think it is 10. seven pled guilty. of all these cases happening in the united states, on the federal level, we have seven

people that pled guilty. i am talking about the consumer, the buyer, the other criminal. is that correct? >> no, not exactly. i cannot give you the exact number of how many have pled guilty or been convicted to date. we have expanded and other districts are employing the same techniques. i can assure you that the department is pursuing those who paid to sexually assault childr. >> get me those statistics, if you will. to meet, seven out of 10 is not nearly good enough. wealked about the internet and how is being used by criminals. maybe law enforcement ought to figure out a way to do this and capture these consumers that pay for this crime, this service.

there photographs ought to be on the internet. we should advertise to the world to these people are who have exported young women in the united states. as a judge, i used to try to do some innovative things, but we need to be thinking about how we can use the internet to the advantage of enforcement of the law. these guys suddly start seeing their photographs on the internet, and they stop this. that is a responsibility we have come to figure out some solutions. in your district, tell me how you deal with a sexually exploited child has been trafficked. you come in contact with her -- do you file on her for prostitution? what happens in the domestic situation? >> there is a lack of resources when it comes down to the contact of the victim of this

crime. as it stands, most of the work i have been doing in northern california has been out of a congressman lundgren said district in the sacramento region. it is one of the most prolific areas where this is going on at a tremendous rate and spreading throughout that region. we have a multidisciplinary task force and a multitude of non- governmental agencies to respond to the problem. fortunately, there are few nonprofit organizations -- a few that have come into play to provide a place for these victims to go to, which is part of the problem. if we cannot get them out of the law enforcement context, in order to remove them from the environment in which they are preyed upon, then they go right back into the system. they find it is a hopeless

environment. in effect, we are at a struggling. , having effective laws and tools to deal with the perpetrators. as you mentioned earlier, oftentimes at the state and local level, it is a one or two pimps, wholty for the camp are better classified as traffickers. there are willing to suffer that for the hundreds of thousands of dollars they control in from this on an annual basis. we are struggling when it comes to a lack of resources. that is a significant issue to turn these victims away from the system. the eight officers from having to put them into the justice system as criminals, just as an

attempt to remove them from their vtimization. as i stated earlier, it becomes a matter of real victimizing them in another way. >> we have a lot of work to do, but we need to make its so that the consumer, the buyer, anthe trafficker -- is not a cost of business, the penalty's too great for them to stay in business. more importantly, we nd to find and take care of these youngomen, whether on the state or local level, and find a way where they don't lose hope and have their spirit is broken because of the crime that continues to be committed against them. >> the gentle lady from texas. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman, for this hearing, and

to the ranking member. i would like to connect to my friend and colleague from texas and build on the testimony. forgive me for being delayed and not being able to hear all of the testimony, but many view i am familiar with, i am also a speed reader to accept some of the comments you have made. first of all, let me thank you for the work you do. i chair the pfessional children's caucus and we have looked at these issues. i have engaged with ernie allen for a number of yrs in my own district and here in washington d.c. let me pay tribute not only to teaneck, but to constituents of mine got the name of catherine griffin, who struggles in my own community to the question of resources. you have hit the nail on the

head. as i asked the chairman's byulgent, let me first begain speaking to mr. powell, and thank him for his presence here. what we would like to think is when witnesses come, that as members pose questions, we are being provocative swe can secure real answers to the problem. my first question, since craigslist has such a brand, and i think he would agree, media has its way of interpretation. you would agree that the last month was not a good public exposure for craigslist. people are only let, good or bad, by what they see. the first initial response appeared to be stonewalling,

lack of response, and it gave all of us a bad taste in our mouths. i think the real question is, you now can stand an example for a lot of internet sites and web sites and other levels of technology that continue to proliferate. what took you so long to immediately stop? how can we be convinced that when he goes away -- when the heat goes away, the material results in come, value that you get from these services, does not find itself back on your side? i had the impression that you took off adult services, but individuals migrated to other sites on craigslist and are just proliferating and having a good time. i gave you three questions, i hope you can remember them.

>> to respond to the first question regarding the timing, i don't have the specific information about why septeer 3 was elected, but i can assure the members of the committee and others that we do not have any intention to restore that category. i think there is a sense that in some ways, taking that step may be a step backward in terms of addressing some of the core causes of the issue. my hope is that the migration we have seen of these particular ads to other web sites, and not to other parts of craigslis. we have seen some fairly strong indications that the measures we have taken and are continuing to take have prevented that, but the other sites that have been

mentioned previously, we would hope that they continue to adopt some of the practices that craigslist has had in place for a number of years, including working collaboratively with the national center for missing and exploited children, providing reporting mechanisms, working closely with law enforcement. >> i don't want to cut you off, but i have short time and i may be overlapping. no amount of money is going to cause craigslist to reinstitute in another name this kind of sight? >> i cannot answer that directly,ut what i can tell you -- >> mr. powell, please. i recognize layer of responsibility, and i am keeping a tone of respect, because i understand you are represented. mr. pell, please. no amount of money wl cause you reinstate that site, and

are you suggesting to me that business decions and judgments may play into this site coming back again? i have already given you complement's for being a standard bearer for change, but now i am hearing that it might come back again? >> no, no. what i am saying is we do not have any intention to bring that category back, and that money is not a consideration as we make our decisions. >> what do we need to do in congress? we have a challenge of the first amendment, and i could be categorized very openly as a progressive in a dilemma, but let me tell you what my position is -- shut them down,. what does that say about the potential proliferation of these

sites elsewhere? which plays into the work, i take it. >> it does. it plays very significantly into this work into the credit of craigslist, i will agree that they have made significant strides and provided tremendous resources in terms of when th problem is brought to their atntion, and the request for assistance. on the other hand, we do have a difficult task when it comes to the legislative piece of it, because as it goes, freedom has its price. however, i would like to hear the affirmative response that this wilnot come back under any circumstances, which i think was the answer you were looking for. >> i ask the chairman of i did have an additional minute, and i will speak quickly. let me just go back so you can stay on record again, you

mentioned the word resources. you need more resources to do what? >> to train and educate law enforcement. we need resources to provide for shelters and the place to get these children off the streets and away from bei put into the system as criminals. that has to be outside of the justice system with our non law enforcement partners. that is what we need in resources. we also need resources to allow law enforcement the time to invest in this, because this is not the type of crime that is driven by -- is driven by time and investment of follow-up a follow-through and recognition thate have to do this in a victim centered approach, rather than trying to complete an investigation so tt we can get it before the prosecutor. we have to keep the individuals

who have been victimized at the center of this effort, and that takes time and resources. >> let me move quickly to ernie allen. i remember when we were first confronting the issuef hiv aids. everybody was whispering. until we took it to the national level of exposure, billboards, everyone speaking about it, a round coffee pot, in hallways and byways and local community houses, etc. people began to be comfortable with acknowledging being hiv- infected or that they needed help. and notice some of the recommendations you have made. he have been very good on getting us to understand missing, abuse, and exploit it is not -- another is a legislation i will be reang.

it seems to talk about taking this to another level. we need people talking about that these are victims and not criminals. we need to be able to say to the federal government, it is worthy of your enhance involvement, and we have already talked about resources. the only way you get communities talking about this is you put this right up to them, write to their faces. principals and teachers and school boards and pastors an others. ernie, what do you say about that, and have we done that? >> we have not done that. i think we have begun to do that. i included a quotation from a police commanding officer who said the only way not to find this problem in any community is simply not to look for it. i think america has begun to look. you are exactly right. we have a generation of kids who are sexualize. many of these victims become compliant. what we have to do is educate

the american people. using the hiv aids example, we have educated american and responded to the challenge over tobacco, in terms of seat belts and car seats. this will require social change. it will require enormous public awareness, because these kids are hidden victims. >> i know that smokers would raise their hand and say it is uncomfortable to be smokers in america. this is what the judge is speaking up. we have to make it uncomfortable, and is not. i just want to pose this question. let me ask the department of justice, i heard something that i hope is inaccurate.

it may be some underpinnings of something that may be positive, but am i hearing something about the justice department looking at lessening penalties on sex perpetrators, people in porn? is that what you are doing? do you know what i am sayg? >> i am somewhat familiar with what you are talking about. >> i am against it. [laughter] >> speaking as a prosecutor, i can assure you that i personally am for very heavy palties on those who exploit children in all their forms, as is the department of justice. did attorney-general -- the attorney general said publicly that this was more than a crime issue for him, it is a legacy issue. we have to protect the children and prosecute the offenders, and we will continue to do that. what you are referring to is a

letter from someone in that part of justice to the sentencing commission staff, where he indicated that a review of the child pornography guidelines might be advisable by the sentencing commission, but the department has not, and i would be shocked if they did, issued any opinions as to saying that the penalties for child exploitation should be lessened. we have not done so. >> i support a wide range of lessening of sentencing, but i can assure you, i hope we will silence that person in their letter writing and to extinguish it before it gets to any place of review. i want to conclude -- i have legislation that deals with retaining the dna of sexual predators in of bank -- in a

bank focused on child sexual predators. so that they can look in the computer and see if this individualas in iowa five months ago with the same type of behavior. it is a question of whether we have that finite system, separated by the fact that this was the perpetrator of children's crimes. however, you were a victim as well and have come forward. can you just share with us what you think the single thing is -- you have heard a lot of with the federal government can do, and you heard craigslist. do we need to have people rise up and except good citizenship and say theyill not have these kind of sites on any form of public or commercial e