and "washington, a life." then ed miliband. later, carl levin on the afghanistan war. >> this week on q&a, the first of a two-part program with historian ron chernow. his newest biography is about george washington and will be in bookstores this coming week. he has also written about alexander hamilton, john d. rockefeller and the j.p. morgan family. >> ron chernow, almost at the very end of your new book on george washington, you write, "late in the writing of this book, i suffered an injury that

nearly derailed the project. and then you go on to thank people. what happened? >> i broke my ankle. i slipped on the top step of the stoop of my brownstone and smashed my ankle. it may have been providential because it forced me to slow down. for three months, i could do nothing but read, so i did additional research and then when i returned to the book, i found that i had a kind of sharpness or clarity. not to mention energy that i might otherwise not have had. there was a silver lining to it. but now i'm ok. >> when did that happen? >> that happened towards the very end. it was june 2009. i was very close to finishing the book. i think that it is good to step back from a project that you are very involved with and to be able to look at it with fresh eyes, which can only happen if you put down the book for three months, which i was forced to do.

>> what led you to write the first sentence? "in march, 1793, he crossed the atlantic for painting george washington. the supreme prize of the age for portrait artists. -- for any ambitious portrait artist." >> i start with him painting george washington because his image became our image of washington. it became the iconic image of washington. gilbert stuart -- he was a genius as a portrait artist. he was in the same business that i am in terms of trying to penetrate the enigma of george washington. i was not only fascinated by his portraits, but i was fascinated by his comments on washington. you could see another washington working behind that reserved, stoical facade. he saw a man with a tremendous force of personality. he said that if washington had

grown up in the forest, he would have been the fiercest among the savage tribes interestingly enough, the people who knew washington best, hamilton, jefferson, morris did spy that same personality, someone who was much more moody and tempermental. we tend to think of washington as a bland but worthy character. he was anything but. there was a tremendous will. he was tremendous in his personality under this very reserved facade. >> you say in your prelude into this book that you want a fresh portrait. after all that has been read, -- written about george washington, how did to do a fresh portrait? >> hamilton had washington in -- had a few with washington in -- a feud with washington in the

revolutionary war. hamilton wrote a series of very perceptive letters about washington. the said -- he wrote something that said he was moody and a powder keg. i can remember being absolutely startled. i read so much about washington. these were significant things that were overlooked by previous biographers. the more that i read about washington, he was a man of many moods and many passions. he had fiery opinions. because it was covered by this intense self control, people did not see it. what we have done in the very understandable and laudable desire to generate washington, -- to venerate washington, we have the rough edges of the personality. he made him bland and even -- we have made him land and even -- bland and even boring. people at the time saw him as a

very dynamic and charismatic figure. i would love for contemporary americans to share that kind of excitement. >> how did you go about this? >> i pay tribute to washington in the university of virginia that began to publish new editions of his papers. every year, another volume appears. they have now published more than 60 volumes. there is a projected 90 volumes. to give you an idea of how much information there is available, the old edition from the 1930's is based on 17,000 documents. the new edition is based on 135 ,000 documents collected from archives all over the world. what is wonderful about this is that you have lavishly annotated letters with extracts from letters, diaries, and contemporary newspaper accounts. using this new material,i have

hundreds and maybe thousands of eyewitness accounts. it made me feel that i could possibly do what has been so difficult. to bring him alive as a fully three-dimensional character. as someone so vivid that if he walked into the room, you would know what he looked like, how he sounded. he was a very reserved character. u.s., in many ways, a very repressed character. you kind of have to tease out this personality. suddenly, we have so much anecdotal material that we really can't try not to recreate -- we can really try to recreate the man. >> you said that he had a colossal temper. how did you find that out? >> there are a lot of examples of washington losing his temper. there was a cabinet meeting where jefferson said that washington lost his temper. he had been shown a satirical cartoon that showed him being guillotined the way louis the

16th was guillotined. the jefferson wrote afterwards thatwashington lost his temper and had difficulty regaining control of his emotions. there are a lot of stories like this. people noticed this before, but had thought that it was more incidental to his personality. for me, it suggests that these emotions were boiling under the surface. morris saidwashington was a passionate man. it was almost too mighty for any other human to control. it is very different from the way we see washington. the people closest to him sensed this tremendous intensity. it would periodically, like a volcano, boil over. >> you said that he was prone to tears. >> many times. the evidence is everywhere in the story. we all know the story about his farewell to the officers at the end of the war.

there were officers standing in the long room and he said that he could not come to them, and he asked if they could come to him. he hugs them and there were tears in his eyes. i was struck a number of times how many times contemporary observers noticed tears in his eyes with this tremendous emotion that he was fighting. he was a highly emotional man. he was somebody who was very reluctant to show those emotions. he was always afraid of being captive to those emotions. he became an almost overly controlled personality. he was emotionally muscle bound. >> you say that he was a man of fierce disposition. -- fierce, irritable disposition. >> i do not want to overstate that side. i am stressing that because i felt that was the overlooked

dimension. these were his political associates and military officers that said he could and often was exquisitely sensitive and courteous. i do not want to pay a portrait -- paint a portrait of him as tyrannical but rather someone who was very sensitive in dealing with people. he had a tremendous sense of tact and courtesy. he was an exemplary figure in that way. this is a very complicated man. he was a tough nut to crack social logically and psychologically. >> what makes you think a 900 page book will sell? >> i think americans are dis enchanted with american -- disenchanted with american politics. they are looking for a heroic figures from america's past and there is no figure more heroic or fearless or courageous than george washington. what i tried to show in the

book, this is something that slowly and gradually happens in his life. washington, as a young man, has an amazing perseverance about him. you can often see glimmers of the future leader. he is someone who is pursuing money, status, and power. he was not an attractive character in certain ways when he was younger. he was one who transcends his past. he was ennobled by circumstance. under the pressure of the revolutionary war andafter the constitutional convention, these monumental challenges bring out this greatness and this is a man who is much greater than anyone would have predicted. he is tremendously inspirational. this a time when we need inspiration. the american public is pretty

depressed at the moment. >> i want to have you do a snapshot of several places where he was in his life and we will come back to some of these. what did he do around boston? >> he takes control of the continental army. it was july, 1775. he had just been appointed commander. his presence was extraordinarily important because the continental army was really composed exclusively of new england militia. one of the reasons that washington was chosen, it -- having a virginia planter as commander in chief suddenly gives a continental perspective to the continental cause that they did not have before that. the redcoats are bottled up in boston and are under siege from the continental army. washington manages to drive them out of boston and he has his first great victory.

maybe a little bit of beginner's luck because he had an enormous difficulty duplicating the feat. >> new york. >> he goes to new york and that is where he has a string of disasters. at the battle of brooklyn, he is -- the british expiry force -- having an army pounce on his army. it drives the entire army across the east river. they flee up to northern manhattan. unfortunately,it is not the last disaster. washington loses twin forts on opposite sides of the river. for washington and fort lee -- for to washington and fort lee. he began this demoralized retreat across new jersey and across the delaware river into pennsylvania. >> philadelphia? >> what happens is that there is a fear that the british were

going to take philadelphia. washington and his troops first fight the british at brandywine creek. they hope to stop them. it was one of the battles that washington showed his intelligence. he was far from faultless as a military legal. -- military leader. the british occupied philadelphia until the spring of 1778. >> washington d.c.? >> washington d.c.. >> virginia, mount vernon. >> the residence act was george -- under the residence act of 1790 -- it specified a 65 mile strip along the potomac where the capital might be. it was george washington who got on horseback and picked the spot where washington d.c. is going to be. there was a certain amount of rumbling at the time because it was very close to mount vernon, where washington owned 8,000

acres. it is not accidental that the white house stands where it is because it faces south towards mount vernon. >> something you spend enough -- not a lot of time on, but enough time on, but i want to ask you more about it because i never thought about this. we always talk about the teeth. the teeth are at mount vernon to see. because of this contraption he wore in his mouth, he had a hard time speaking. >> this is not a trivial aspect of washington's life. not only because of the pain that it caused him. by the time that he was inaugurated, he had only one tooth left. it was a lonely bicuspid hanging on. he had a complete set of dentures made and there was a hole drilled where the tooth was. the dentures were held in place by that one tooth. the way that the upper and lower

-- they were connected by a curved metal spring. the only way that they stayed in the mouth is the person had to keep their mouth closed. as you open your mouth to speak, the pressure was released on that spring and there was always the possibility that the dentures would come flying out of your mouth. i think that one reason why washington tended to keep his speeches very short, he must have been very self-conscious. you is also very laconic -- he was also very laconic. he was not given to long winded speeches. for a man of washington's pride, he always had to worry of an occasion that the dentures would slip out of his mouth. >> any idea of when he started losing his teeth? >> he started losing his teeth when he was in his 20s. even during the french and indian war. it is very funny. at the very end of the

revolution, he had a french dentist that comes to the continental army headquarters to work with washington and washington was so self- conscious about his bad teeth that he thought that people would mock it. he does not even mention that he is meeting with this dentist. it is as if he is meeting with the master spy and it is so delicate that it cannot even be recorded. he had a dentist in new york named john greenwood. when washington corresponds with greenwood, he never uses such telltale words as teeth or dentures. nothing like that. he would say that he received the items that he sent. lest some crying party would see this and realize that washington was -- prying party would see this and realize that washington was talking about teeth. it is funny to think of such a

great man who was so self- conscious about this defect. this creates an enormous sense of compassion, particularly -- at the newark library of medicine, i exam -- academy of medicine in new york, i examined once said of his dentures. -- one set of his dentures. one set of his dentures were ungainly contraptions and you see them and picture them rubbing along the gums day after day, you realize how agonizing it must have been to have those in your mouth. it was gruesome. >> you talk a lot about hemorrhoids. what impact did that have on him? >> by the time that george washington is 30 years old, he has had smallpox. he has had malaria. he has had dysentery. in the 18th century, if you lived to 50 or 60, you probably lived to 70 or 80 because there were so many epidemics all the time. i think that washington was a very hearty specimen who was able to survive all of these illnesses.

he came from a very short lived family. his father died at 49 and his older brother died at 34. it probably gave him a sense that he was going to defy the odds of his family and actually have the long life. he died at 67, which is much younger than the next five or six presidents, but by the standards of the washington male, washington was unusually long lived. >> you said that he traveled lying down. >> he had dysentery during the french war. -- during the french-indian war, during the famous defeat of general braddock. it caused diarrhea. it was very painful for him to sit on his horse. there is an extraordinary example of washington's bravery, riding in this battle as a conspicuous target on a horse and he took four bullets

in his clothing. i think one in his hat and three in his coact. he had two horses shot out from under him. a presbyterian minister said that it looked like george washington was being preserved by providennce for some -- by providence for some important future service for his country, which was one of the great calls in history. >> you said that nobody touched washington. >> washington did not like to be touched. there is a story that makes the point. it is perhaps apocryphal. at the constitutional convention, hamilton and morris were talking about whether it was true that washington did not like to be touched. hamilton made morris a bet that he would not go over and touch washington. morris went over and gave washington a slap on the shoulder and asked how he was.

washington turned and gave him a glare that he never forgot. we do not know that story is authentic, but people were shocked when washington -- many -- when washington was embraced. for example, there are many stories have lafayette embracing washington with both arms. the fact that people recorded this was an expression of their shock that someone was behaving this way. washington had a way of sending out signals that you did not act familiarly. he always told his subordinates, whether it was a military or political subordinate, that one of the symbols of leadership was not to be overly familiar with the subordinates. >> this sounds like the same question, but you also said that he did not shake hands. >> yes. when he had the reception as

president, he would go around the room and nod at people. whether this was borrowed from the royalty, we do not know. it was certainly alleged by his political enemies thatthis was an aping of royal ways. it was a common criticism of the opposition party. he had the sense of personal dignity. it was very much a part of his power and very much a part of his mystique. washington would never make it as a politician today because he did not press the flesh. he was not -- was not a glad handing, backslapping man. there is something very attractive about the formality and innate dignity of the man. >> you mentioned a tribute to james [inaudible] he wrote all lot about george

washington. what do you have in your book that they do not have in their books? >> my book is based on the new edition of the papers. >> i have probably five-to-10 times as much material to work with. they were both great writers. freeman was a researcher. he was a virginia newspaper editor. he had lovely, flowing style. the other author had a another style. the concept of biography has changed quite rapidly over the last century. at the time that freeman was writing, biography was still the public record of a public man. now, when we read a biography, we expect it to be a rounded portrait of the person. -- the private person as well as the public. i have a very detailed portrait of george's marriage to martha which you would not get in those books. it is not that those riders were

incapable of doing it. it was considered of lesser importance. i have a very detailed portrait of washington as the slave holder. that was also seen as more incidental in the life of a great man. there are various dimensions of the private man that you would not find in those biographees. -- biographies. >> speaking of the slave question, there is a note that you make where george washington bought the teeth of slaves. >> we do not know if the got -- he got them from his own slaves. he marked them as from "negroes." dentures were not made of wood. let's retire that. people thought it was wood, but it was made of ivory. walrus or elephant.

it took on a granular look. if you look at it now, you would think it would be wood. the ivory was actually the frame. there were actually real teeth inserted into the dentures. we do not know this for fact, but it has been discovered that he bought teeth from negros. presumably, that men slaves. he may have had, in his mouth, teeth from his own slaves. this may sound bullish -- ghoulish. dentists would advertise in the newspapers and buy teeth from people who would lose them. if you lost a tooth, you would sell it. it is not quite as macabre as it might sound. he may have been walking around with teeth from one or several slaves. >> any idea what the first run is on the book and how much it will put out on the market? >> i do not know exactly. >> would it be 50,000, 60,000 or 100,000?

in the past, you have sold a lot of books. >> a little bit more than -- it would be more than 100,000. >> you have a book on j.p. morgan, "the warbugs", which was more successful? >> the graph continues to rise. >> in a commercial standpoint, i have tried to keep broadening my focus. each book has been more successful than the one before. a number of people have commented that there was not a -- that the george washington book is the first one without a large economic dimension. after i did morgan and "the warbugs," i was being stereotyped and i would give a speech and people would start yelling in the audience for me to do vanderbilt or carnegie next.

as if i would spend the rest of my life just knocking off a gilded age mobil's -- moguls. with hamilton, it would lead me into constitutional law and foreign policy. that was my exit strategy. with each book, you have to try to expand your range as a writer or otherwise go stale. i hope the people that read the previous books, i hope they do not mind that with washington, there is not a very big financial or economic dimension. >> when did you start this book? >> i started it six years ago. this is for the record in terms of the amount of time that i spent on the it. -- on it. even though you say it is a very long book, i felt that i was writing it on the back of a postage stamp because the book that i had in mind, the standard references on washington, i was trying to do the same thing as others in a single volume.

one volume is about -- one of their have about seven volumes and 4000 pages. there have been a lot of books on washington in recent years. i noticed that people were either doing a year such as 1776 or washington's crossing. they would do a specific event. there was a terrific book called "his excellency," which was a study of his life. the gap that i saw in the literature was something that would be all encompassing. i wanted to do something that was cradle-to-grave. it would need to be a synthesis of all of the new documents and all of the new information about washington. i do not know if i succeeded, but that is what i set out to

do. >> where did you spend your time along the way? >> most of the time, i just spent in my home office. usually, i travel to archives and i sit there wiping the dust off of records and straining my eyes to decipher handwritings. in this case, i was able to buy these 60 volumes of the washington papers and the 17 volumes from the old edition. i did go to almost all of the major revolutionary war battlefields. >> how much of that did you really read? >> i can honestly say that i scanned every page. i cannot say that i read every word of every page. you develop instincts as a historian in terms of what is significant or useful. since washington died, there have been 900 biographies. i could not read every page of every biography, so i decided i

could focus more of my time and attention on going through original materials rather than going through every single book that has been written about washington. >> in your book, you also pay tribute to your deceased wife who died in the middle of all this in 2006. what did that do to this whole process? >> this is the darkest period in my life. my wife and i were together for almost 28 years. in addition to being the most wonderful wife a man can have, she played a very important part in my career. she was my muse. she was my confidant. she was my in-house editor. over dinner, we would discuss the book and she would ask me a question that would send me scurrying back to the books. i used to read the books aloud to her. she was a perfect proxy for my

ideal reader. she would suddenly interrupt and say that she did not understand something or that one line was not clear. she would say to my distain that -- dismay that the book was dragging a little bit. she was absolutely -- i was very -- she was absolutely invaluable. i was very grateful for this book because i was working on it during the final year of her life. after i lost her, the book had -- the book gave structure. i was lucky. every morning, i would open the door and i was in the 18th century, which was a nice escape. remember, george washington is a great story. he is someone coping with adversity with fortitude, will power, patience, forgiveness, acceptance, all of these qualities.

he was a good role model for me to have. it was tough. >> how long was she sick? >> she had ovarian cancer. >> she was sick for about four and a half years. >> what did you do after you lost her? how would you fill in that space with the editing help every night? >> it was hard. my life is so solitary. i would have valerie there at breakfast and it was a solitude surrounded by this extraordinary marriage. the solitude became quite harrowing. suddenly, she was not there. i was very fortunate to have terrific friends and family members. when i lost her, we had been together for so long, i began to say to myself -- i would

hear her in my mind. you internalize that person. honey, that sentence is not very clear. i did sometimes carry on an imaginary dialogue with her. i would imagine her saying things. she would ask me different questions. it was very hard. i was actively worried about the -- about this throughout the writing, that there was some very significant dimensions in my writing career. could i produce something that was worthy of the earlier books? >> you mentioned earlier that you spent a lot of time on washington's marriage. >> yes. >> where did that relationship start? >> it started back in 1758 when

he went to go consult a doctor. he had a friend, richard chamberlain. he met this young widow. martha then discussed this -- martha the damage -- martha dandridge custus. she was living in a house called the white house, i kid you not. there was a whirlwind courtship. they dated a few times before they decided to marry. it was not the most romantic marriage in history, but i think that it was one of those marriages that ripened into a deep friendship. i think that martha washington was absolutely invaluable to george washington. she gives him financial security. she was extraordinarily wealthy as a widow. she gave him emotional support. he really needed a confidante. he was a reserved character. she was a real social asset.

she was a great hostesses, very good conversationalist. you have a sense, with washington, that once they married, they went to having one kind of life and having been settled. god knows that washington, who is going to achieve these monumental thing is -- things -- i think that they really needed a very subtle life in order to be successful. >> we might as well throw sally fairfax in there at this point. you wrote a lot about that. >> this is one of the great mysteries of washinton's life. -- washington's life. on the eve of his marriage, he is infatuated with one of his best friends wives -- sally fairfax, the wife of george williams fairfax. her family occupied a beautiful mansion. it was on the potomac just south

of mount vernon. the fairfax family controlled 5 million acres between the potomac and another river. -- and the rappahannock river. they were his sponsors and mentors. he is doing something quite rash. he writes a letter to sally in declaration of love. she rebuffed. i concluded that this had to have been an infatuation rather than what i would call love. i would argue it this way. infatuation can cool rather quickly when circumstances change. real love would have endured. the fact that it did not endure, george and martha washington became very close friends with george william and sally fairfax. after their marriage, they traveled together.

they vacationed together. i think that george washington, had he really been love with -- been in love with sally fairfax, the idea of traveling with your wife and the woman you love, it would have been out. -- it would not have worked out. there was no question that he was it an anti -- he was smitten and he writes this declaration of love, but i think that it fairly quickly cooled into something else. >> what documents survived the letters? >> we have more of the letters that george wrote to sally rather than what sally wrote to george, which might surprise some of the people. it is based on a small handful of letters that were discovered only -- i think they came to light in the 1950's and people

were very shocked by this. george washington was a very passionate figure. i also tried to show in the book that he was very attentive to women. the aphrodisiac of power -- i -- the aphrodisiac of power already existed in the 18th century. i have a many quotes in the book about women swooning over washington at various assemblies. washington took very careful notes of those swooning women. >> you said that he was never able to express his forbidden feelings of rage. >> he learned to equate silence and a certain manly stolidity with strength. >> i write about this in the context of his relationship with his mother. washington had one of the more difficult mothers of all time. she was very domineering and

self-centered. you would think that the mother of the father of our country would have all sorts of pride or pleasure in her son. we really do not have any proof. she was constantly critical of george for neglecting. -- for neglecting her. we have quite a number of letters to her. it is a very correct and rather -- frosty frothy tone. he is suppressing this rage against his mother. it is a kind of psychological speculation. there is speculation that he first learned to govern and these powerful emotions in dealing with his mother. he was never really able to openly express the hostility that i think that he felt towards her. >> how long was she in his life? >> she was there a long time. she was still alive when he becomes the first president. she dies, even though she had never gone to new york to visit

him. she did not attend george and martha's wedding. we have no evidence that,even though she was living in fredericksburg, we have no evidence that she ever went to visit george and martha at mount vernon. it is very peculiar. george washington was the most dutiful silent family man and -- sun and family man imaginable and everyone loved martha washington. it is hard to imagine someone having a bad relationship with martha washington. i think she could get on anyone's good side. there is an episode that i described in the books where he gets a letter from the speaker of the virginia assembly, saying that his mother was in the state capitol lobbying for an emergency pension. she claimed that she was oppressed by taxes. she also implied that she had

been abandoned by her son. washington is humiliated and sits down and writes to his brother and tells him to please talk to their mother because he knew how much money he had given her. please get her to stop saying these things. that was quite a public rebuke to have the commander in chief's mother seeking poverty relief from the virginia legislature. it was quite a story. >> did he have any close friends? >> that is a very good question. he had many questions, but i do not think he had friends in the way we think of it today. we think of someone with whom we have a confessional relationship where we really lay bare ourselves. washington was a very wary person and it took a long time to win his trust. he would very slowly let down his guard. there are people he knew

throughout his life. dr. james gregor was the family -- dr. james craig was the family physician and a friend. he was there with washington at the moment he dies. it was not that washington was a solitary figure at all, but it is a very different kind of figure from the other founders. >> who did he have the most difficult relationship with of all the founders? madison, jefferson, monroe, all the rest of them. >> i would think john adams. even though john adams was the first vice-president, john adams was conspicuously excluded from the inner council. occasionally you will see letters pass between them on different issues. adams starts out at the second continental congress. it was adams that was the most

influential advocate of george washington to be commander in chief. there was a lot of sniping as the years go by. adams, who was always worried about his place in history i, is petrified that he will be upstaged by two people. benjamin franklin and george washington. he makes a very statement -- a very funny statement later on. he said that when the story of the revolutionary war is told, it will be benjamin franklin striking the ground with his lightning rod and out springs general george washington and there you have the whole thing in a nutshell. he was not wrong. washington and franklin would receive this tremendous adulation. in terms of washington's relations with the other founders, he had much better relations with the founders of the previous generation like franklin, who was 25 years older than washington. he had much better relations

with those of the younger generation -- madison and hamilton were about 25 years younger. he had difficult relations with his age group. adams was three years younger. jefferson was about 12 years younger than washington. this is true during the revolutionary war, that washington feels competitive with his age peers on a subconscious level and feels threatened. whereas he has a much better relations with both older and younger men. >> i did some of my own calculations. i am thinking of the year 1775, i found almost no one over 50. some of these folks were in their late-twenties and early '30's and taking on this whole revolution. >> alexander hamilton very quickly was chief of staff. he was only 22 years old. calculation,e's

even 20 years old. when hamilton becomes the first treasury secretary and de facto prime minister, in washington's first term, hamilton was 34 years old. this was a unique moment in history. the population was under them -- yiounger -- younger than they would be now. you would not have the political system dominated by people in their 50s and 60s. this was a unique period of history. there was a need for youth and vitality and creativity. we had a war to fight and the constitution to write and the government to create. these were things that required an enormous amount of energy and imagination. people had that kind of creativity and you see this in the careers of both madison and hamilton. they are quickly drawn into politics and the need was there. >> was he a humble man or was he a man would ride a big white horse.

he requested a personal guard. explain that story. they had to be a certain height? >> this is a rather bizarre story. washington decided to create personal guards early in the revolutionary war to guard him and to guard his papers. he always lovingly tended. he tells his officers that the man he once for this regard -- once for this regard -- wants for this guard cannot be taller than 5 ft. 10 in. and neither shorter than 5 ft. 8 in.. the following year, not satisfied with that, he issues a new set of orders that they cannot be taller than 5 ft. 10 in. or shorter than 5 ft. 9 in.. it was kind of a hollywood uniformity to his personal guard. a band-box precision. i find out that washington thought that your personal --

set tremendous store by personal appearance was made up of your inner order. he spent more than five years in the french and indian war and had been exposed to a lot of british generals and they had their of followers and their staff. it is rather strange that he did that. >> you said that he went to every state after he became president. but when he would go into a community, what was the group that would precede him? >> it is very interesting. he decided that he would visit the northern states and then he would visit the southern states. he traveled from town to town by carriage, but he will always bring along a white parade horse. when he was a mile or to outside of town, he would dismount from the carriage and

on the white parade horse and into the town. why did he do that? >> he had a great sense of showmanship. he knew that he looked great on horseback. it is not coincidental that we have all of these statues of -- equestrian statues of george washington. he was very theatrical. he is a contradiction. on the other hand, he feels so burdened by his own celebrity. the same man rides into town on a white horse will then inform us in his diary is that he learned that a procession of dignitaries will accompany him out of town. he would leave early before the escorts could accompany him because he tired of all the adulation and receptions and speeches. he had to make nice with people. washington had many virtues, but one virtue he did not have was spontaneity.

nowadays, you think a politician of someone who can come up with a funny anecdote. a few well-chosen words. washington was not like that. it was a torment tohim. -- to him. they wanted to idolize him and he got tired of it. whatever ambitions he had as a young man, and his ambitions were quite enormous, he had more than his though as time went on -- fill as time went on and he begin to feel depressed. >> when did you know almost nothing about washington? when did your process of learning about him start and where did you are to change a -- did you begin to chancge your perception? >> the hamilton maugre to was the first 18th-century book that i did. hamilton was the protagonist of the book and washington was the hero. i was very impressed by the way

that all the other founders became partisans for a particular cause. all of them get sidetracked into a very petty, sometimes very ambitious personal disputes with each other george washington is -- each other. george washington is the one person who keeps his eyes fixed on the goal. that impressed me tremendously when i was writing the hamilton book because hamilton and jefferson become consumed by an almost pathological hatred of each other. that leads to the formation of these two parties. george washington -- he was always trying to rise above the fray, not unlike president obama, he gets into office open to be a non-partisan -- hoping to be a non-partisan president and very reasonable and learn exactly what president obama learned, that it was not going to happen. >> money, you point out that his taxes were in arrears.

from 75 to 1787. -- 1785 to 1787. >> i was shocked by that. one of the paradoxes of washington is that it is said that he was one of the richest men in the colony. he was a land rich and certainly slaves rich, but he was cash poor. he had to borrow money to go to his own inauguration in new york in 1789. at the end of his second term as president, he had to borrow money again to take his family and slaves back to philadelphia. this is a man who is constantly weighed down by concerns over money. it runs throughout his entire life. unfortunately, like a lot of the virginia planters, he was a real spendthrift. he was a compulsive shopper. >> at the time that he had the

most land, how many acres did he on? -- own? >> washington, by the end, he had have at least 40,000 or 50,000 acres. nonperson -- mount vernon consisted of five separate farms and it was 8,000 acres. on top of that, he had 40,000 or 50,000 acres out west which he was constantly trying to sell to pay off his debt. this sounds like a lot, but at the time, there were a lot of people that were massive land -- that were massing -- amassing a lot of land. in fact, one of washington's grievances against the british empire is that at the end of the french and indian war, they settled or west of the allegheny mountains and there were a lot of virginians like washington that were snatching up all of this land in western virginia and they felt that the british empire was suddenly the working -- thwarting their

ambitions. everything revolved around land at that time. >> one thing that also popped up was the tumor that kept recurring. what was the tumor? >> washington, during his first few years in will office almost -- in office, twice almost died. he began running a high fever. at the time, it was thought that it might be a form of anthrax. it was an infection, but they feared for his life. it was very painful for him to sit. the reconfigured his counsel -- they recongfigured -- reconfigured his couch so that he could lie down. the cordoned off the street and sprinkled strauss of the other would not be any nor is the bother washington. it flared up again a couple of years later. then, there was an episode, the following year, when washington had the flu that developed into

pneumonia. he was sick for several weeks. everyone has written him off and then, miraculously, he survives. that was something. >> thomas to the public know -- how much did the public know about all of these illnesses? >> the press kept a very discreet silence on both occasions. they did not immediately say anything because they knew that the executive mansion was cordoned off and there was a lot of gossip going around. the press did not reveal it until relatively late in the processed. -- process. at that point, the press was still protective of a politician's privacy. that would change very rapidly. not only in our own time, but during washington's presidency. >> in the second hour of this

two-part series, we would talk -- we will talk more about the things other in the book. leading up to that, i went through and found a number of pages devoted to each section. you started out with the frontiers and -- frontiersmen. what was the purpose of calling that section the frontiers and? >> there was so much of washington's last bet on the -- spent on the frontier, not only fighting in the french and indian war, but by the time he was 50 or 16, the -- 15 or 16, he was actually a surveyor. washington also has a vision of america expanding to the west. i wanted to draw the contrast to the second section when he became a planter and was a much more genteel kind of life. he is inside the mansion at mount vernon.

i point out that this was somebody who shuttled very easily with in the world of a -- between the world of the backwoods and the world of the drawing rooms. >> the biggest section is 267 pages devoted to the general. >> that would have to be the center of it. i really tried to do the whole life. sometimes you read the whole lot of washington and it is the revolutionary war. i wanted to give attention to both terms of president and the time is passing between the -- the time that is fascinating between the revolutionary war and the time that he becomes president. there is really not a dull period to his life. >> y 83 pages to the statesman? -- why 83 pages to the statesman? >> you have to pity me, here, brian. i had 5.5 years of the french and indian war.

i have eight years of the two term presidency. i am very aware that i have to do justice to those big chunks of the story. you really cannot skimp when it comes to those. those are the monumental achievements of his life. i may have written the others somewhat more succinctly. >> the presidency gets 205 pages. the most interesting thing -- we will continue this discussion, but the most interesting thing you learned about this presidency? >> sometimes it is portrayed that george washington somehow floated above the fray, that he was a figurehead. that hamilton was running things. not at all. washington was absolutely on top of everything but was going on. -- that was going on. even jefferson marveled at the way that not only was everyone reporting to washington, but washington wanted to review all outgoing letters and jefferson marveled at the way that washington was aware of roughly

everything that was happening in -- and absolutely everything that was happening in the of administration. he was a much stronger president than i think people realize. he was very creative. he was forging the office of the presidency. he establishes a benchmark in terms appointing people of brilliance. he is defining the system of separation of powers and checks and balances. most importantly, we are still living with george washington's presidency. washington decides that the engine of foreign and domestic policy is going to be the presidency. it is not going to be the congress. >> ron chernow, author of the new book "washington: a life." we will pick up where we left off in our next hour. >> thank you.

>> for a dvd copy of this program call 1-877-662-7726. for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q&a.org. q&a programs are also available as podcasts. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> tonight, newly elected british labour party leader ed miliband attends his party's conference. then, former prime minister gordon brown at harvard university. later, senate armed services committee chairman carl levin talks about the afghanistan war. tomorrow, the first televised debate between ohio's u.s. senate candidates, lee fisher and rob portman.

the candidates are running to replace retiring republican senator george voinovich. watch live coverage on c-span. next week, the supreme court begins its new term. you can learn more about the nation's highest court with c- span's latest book -- the supreme court. caen -- conversations with active and retired justices, reporters who cover the court, and attorneys who argued cases there. it is available in hardcover and also as an e-book. >> this weekend on c-span3, american history tv unveils the mysteries of the 18th century ship recently uncovered at the world trade center site. discovering what the presidential elections of 1824 and 1828 or not only important but also scandalous. after 90 years -- why the 19th ament