advantage as a democrat, with a democratic white house and possible maintained majority, she is in the decision to deliver the goods, pork barrel, if you will. >> so that congress can try to improve the measure, $371 billion for that center to be built in orlando. a great, new state facility right here. >> i think that because it is a republican leaning district, people give it an art-4, barely republican, leaning that way with a history of republican representation. to the republicans it was a

fluke that tom lost, he lost only because of ethical issues and not because of a change in political thinking on the part of the people in the district. . race, go to our website, c-span.org. joining us at the table is matt welch with "reason magazine."

their cover story -- in the story, you give the top ways to go after the deficit. i want to put on the screen the ways that you recommend going after the deficit. these are the top toys that you recommend going after the deficit. -- ways that you recommend going after the deficit. i want to put the phone numbers

on the screen so that you can get your phone calls in. i want to start with what is not on the list. you do not talk about medicare or social security. guest: you cannot be serious ultimately about reducing the runaway growth of government, which has exploded in the last 10 years, without taking on that. the big three are defense, health care, social security. as mentioned in the intro to this package, that is what you have to do. with social security, certainly, you have to begin by raising th retirement age and move toward a system in which people have the ability to opt out if they do not want their money taken away. everywhere else we are able to individualize and direct our money where we see fit, except for these big areas in

government, education, pension funds. so we can not get serious about it unless we attack that as well. host: something else that people say that you need to look at is the deduction on your taxes, the different ways that people can save on taxes. according to the joint committee on taxation -- guest: no question the tax code is a total mess. special interest, targeted tax breaks, reductions is an attempt to do social engineering of the tax code. we need to move to a much more simple system. my emphasis is not really on

taxes. i think this is a big fall of republicans for the last 10 years, they have had a tax cut d spend-type of approach. the problem is spending, not taxes. we will always have something like 18% of gdp taken out by taxes. government tries to tweak it one way or another, but it is always near that. spending, however, is approaching 25%. the president said that the fiscal path we are on is untenable. we are in a situation where we are out of money. we cannot afford what is happening right now. nobody is talking about serious measures to do anything about this, certainly not the republican party, certainly not the pledge to america, which has nothing about this. you haveepublicans who are

sqwking when obama proposes to cut agricultural subsidies by $800 million. we want to begin the conversation withome preliminary ideas, for people are serious about this issue. host: if americans are serious, why not ask them to pay more tas -- to play devil's advocate -- allow the bush tax cuts to expire for everybody because that will add to the deficit over time? guest: it depends on what you think is the problem. if you think it is purely deficit, you can add taxes and hurt the economy in the process. we have not had any restraints on spending at all. under clinton, there were some restraints on clinton, but bush was the biggest government president since lyndon johnson. obama has only increased that amount.

that is what is unsustainable. you cannot bridge that gap through taxes. i would like to see some -- even a symbolic amount -- to touch this side of the scale. places like california and other places are asking what they can you to raise taxes, eliminate the deficit. we are talking about debt that has zoomed past the levels of countries like greece. raising taxes alone will not do that, especially if you weigh in what it will do to the economy. we need to reduce spending, too. host: matt welch is our guest from "reason magazine." long island, new york. marcello, democratic line. good morning. caller: i have a couple of questions on slashing the government. i heard an education show

earlier paying for college and tuition. people get grants, scholarships, people paying for their students to get help with their education, which is >> we go live now to the pentagon. >> it is good to be back here with you. let me just run through, if i may, in a little bit of the secretary's upcoming schedule before we get to your questions. this has a number of important engagements here and abroad. first up, this thursday and friday, we will host the minister of national defence for the 42nd annual security consultant meeting. this meeting with minister kim offers the ability to look at

the strong state of our alliance 60 years after the start of the korean war. and "reaffirmed that we will not tolerate north korean aggression. this is to participate in the +8 meeting. this includes australia, china, india, the republic of korea. and more regular exchange of views will help build trust and transparency in the region which will be important has nations continue to develop more capabilities. the meeting is happening in

large measure due to one of our close partners in the region which has held the chairmanship this year and a cushion to establish this forum. they will hold separate bilateral meetings with the vietnamese minister of defense in hanoi where they will discuss peacekeeping operations and maritime security. they will also discuss working toward the fall -- fullest possible manner the missing people. this will be how much we have come since u.s.-vietnam relations. the minister -- the secretary will go from hanoi to a conference. it will be a crucial meeting ahead of the head of state

summit in lisbon. this will be able to be focusing on our most pressing needs including cyber defense, counter-i.d. measures and a more deployable alliance. with that, i will take your questions. how about ann? >> we were going ask if whether or not you were going to be the next white house press secretary. >> that is not a serious question. but it is funny. [laughter] >> not anything but entertaining. were there any u.s. military assets trapped or otherwise involved in the strike that killed a german nationals yesterday?

what about the tax on fuel supplies in pakistan? what does that say about their ability to protect those convoys? >> to the first part of your question, we do not speak to those issues. they do not involve loss. we do not speak to them. -- they do not involve us. the second part of your question does impact does speaking of the passage grave, the communications into afghanistan and the attacks on some of the fuel convoys. those very much involved are equities. they are a concern to us. what i have seen that is misleading are mistaken is to try and connect the two in any way. the gate closing is something we are working with the pakistan government on reopening.

we have been given indications that we are making progress on that front and hope to have the game reopen as soon as possible. to fit that in context, another major passageway gate from pakistan into afghanistan remains open and has remained open. we obviously have a number of supply lines from the north as well which provide us with the the opportunity to keep resupplying our forces. even with the closure of the gate which is not for a new round for us, it has not in any way inversely impacted our ability to supply our forces. what is consequential about pakistan in terms of ground launching communications is how much fuel comes through there for our forces. it is important from that

perspective but it has not in any way impacted our ability to resupply fuel to our operations around afghanistan. we do not suspect that it will even if this were to last into the future. we have a sense that we are making progress and that this can be resolved soon. now, the attacks on the ground fuel convoys are things sadly that we have had to live with for years. there has been attacks historically on it made no convoys passing through pakistan to afghanistan. they are sometimes sensational and they are sometimes terrific. they are sometimes deadly. that is tragic. if you put this in context and into perspective, we are talking about impacting about 1% of the supply that we funnel through

pakistan into afghanistan. they have never really adversely impacted our ability to conduct operations in afghanistan. that said, we want to get this reopened. we want to make sure supply lines are protected and that this fuel can go from the ships that bring this into karachi and up in afghanistan without incident. it is in the pakistan's interest to do this. this is a huge commercial enterprise for them. they do not get paid until the fuel is delivered to the point of death -- point of destination in afghanistan. they have an incentive to protect the convoys and make sure that the situation is such that they can get to their destinations safely. i just want to disconnect those

to the ability that i can, the closure of the gate and the fuel convoy attacks, which have taken place far away from the gate closure. hopefully we are making progress on both of those counts including security for the convoys and reopening the gate. let me run this, if i can. >> the bigger question behind her question is the tension between u.s. and pakistan. are there work tensions between the u.s. military leadership and the pakistani military leadership? what are you doing about the border attacks? >> let me step back a minute. in the past two weeks, forces have killed more than 100 have conneen -- hakani network fighters that have been

operating in the region who have been taken the advantage that they can operate with greater freedom than any of us would like. the threat is real and though we have had success in killing 110 of them there are clearly more of them out there who remain a threat to our forces and remain a threat to afghan forces and to some degree remain a threat to pakistan as well. that is the setting in which this is all taking place. obviously there was an unfortunate incident in which it looks as though there were three frontier corps soldiers who were killed as one of our helicopters was investigating what looked to be a new fighting position that was being erected along the border that posed a

potential threat to our forces in afghanistan. i guess they came under fire while they were checking how that position. that investigation has just about wrapped up. i think we will put out a joint release with pakistan because they had two military representatives to the investigation. that investigation has wrapped up and the results will be released i think within the next 24 hours. look for that. it was unfortunate that there were -- it turns of the fire they were taking came from frontier corps soldiers. it was unfortunate that they were killed in the process. it is a regrettable incident and is one for which the u.s. ambassador in pakistan has apologized. it is one for which the secretary general of nato has

expressed his deep regret it has resulted in general petraeus and the chairman of the joint chiefs making calls. they have offered their regret, there can solaces -- of their condolences, their desire to make sure this does not happen again. they want pakistan need representation -- pakistani representation so we can be as transparent as possible about what happened to them. the secretary, of course, deeply regrets the incident and is very much encouraging his staff to work closely with the the military to ensure that we are devising ways to prevent this from happening in the future. now, that is the backdrop to all

of this. what i would say about the relations is that incidents like this, unfortunately, to happen. there are occasional setbacks in our day-to-day relations. this being one of them, the most recent. there are mistakes. there are incidents which create misunderstandings. there are setbacks. that does not mean the relationship, this crucial relationship to loss, is in any way the rail. and in fact, throughout this attention, if you will, relations have proceeded. there was no suspension. there was no disengagement. there were no reprisals.

we've continued to work closely with the military throughout the aftermath of this incident. in fact, i would argue during the relationship from a military the military perspective, it is stronger than it ever has been. we clearly have good communication going on throughout the highest levels of the military. the chairman, the commander, we have representatives in these investigations. we have humanitarian assistance and disaster relief operations under way. we have a fixed-winged and rotary aircraft continuing to move internally displaced people affected by the flood. 15,000 people have been rescued by u.s. helicopters.

there were over 20 million pounds of supplies that have been removed and we have spent upwards of $60 million so far. the relationship continues despite these setbacks and there will be setbacks occasionally. i think the best testament to it is the fact that we're looking forward to hosting the state department between the next round of the strategic dialogue with pakistan later this month. we will have the highest level representation. i do not know the full delegation roster, but the foreign minister will be there, the general, and we will continue the dialogue that we wish to have about growing even closer in our relationship with pakistan. >> said the closing of the gate is a public gesture that does not reflect any real animosity on their part? >> all i can tell you is that i will take their statements at

face value. the stated reason, and this is the government and not the military that shut down the gate, for the closure of the gate was to protect the convoy. in the aftermath of the cross border assault and the killing of these three frontier corp. as men -- corpsmen was to limit the ability of there being a tax as they move through the narrow passageway between pakistan and afghanistan. you would have to talk to them about the rationale behind that. all said this has been on making sure our forces are adequately supplied during this temporary setback. luckily our guys that trans- com and centcom

have worked on a number of issues from the north. we have a lot of ways to help our forces. in terms of the fuel, the lines of communication are varian fortin. we are looking to figure out how to get them all blowing so we do not have any adverse impact to our operations. >> what does it say about the state of pakistan-u.s. relations after nine. -- nine years of a strategic partnership that you cannot figure out how to move gas across pakistan without having blown up?

>> that is a snarky question that i will try to take it seriously. how is that after nine years in the war in afghanistan that we cannot move the fuel safely. have you noticed the they are fighting a war against terrorists in their midst as well? it is not just us but there happens to be a real hornet's nest in pakistan as well and that they pose an existential threat to the government in that country as well? come on. you know the climate there as well as i do. there are terrorists who exist and operate in pakistan as well as those who exist, operate, and work in afghanistan. that is why our strategy is about afghanistan and pakistan. we cannot divorce the two entities. obviously we are able to maintain a distinct bilateral

relationships with both. >> this gentleman here. >> would you like to define the word "tension" which has been given the reason that they closed this date? is it different from your point of view and their point of view? >> you are asking me to define who is tense with one another? >> u.s same -- you saying that they are intense. >> this is the gate being closed because of, i suppose, that tensions could start violence against the convoys and this is a measure to protect the convoys and the personnel that says

that. again, i do not know q -- who you are are asking about. >> detention has to be between two parties. >> this is an issue between the u.s. and pakistan when it comes to the fact that there was an unfortunate incidents in which three frontier corps men were killed. died facilitated the closure of the gate. now we are working with the government to reopen that day. as i just gave a long winded response to julianne in which i tried to make the case that despite this temporary setback, despite this mistake, this regrettable mistake, relations between our two militaries remain strong.

i cannot speak to the government to government relationships, but as far as i can tell that remains strong as well. my colleagues at the department of state may elaborate on that. >> there have been recent moves behind air strikes when civilians die about tightening the rules. do you expect there will be tactical changes in how the aircraft are used near the border or cross the border? >> we have always been come up pretty reticent, i think to speak to tactical issues from here. i would urge you to speak to them. having been in communication with them in the aftermath of this, i have heard nothing of that being said. i think you should look at the investigation and say what it says. i do not think it differs

frankly from what we have been speaking to publicly as to what happened. we will retain the right to defend our forces, to defend ourselves. that includes our forces to operate on the border who are in a very dangerous and difficult situation. that is why it is so important for there to be excellent tree occasion and cooperation between coalition afghan and pakistan forces who patrol and protect both sides of that border and try to minimize the traffic of insurgents going back and forth and threatening people on both sides of the border. >> i am sorry. phil and then alan.

>> a lot of the efforts toward [unintelligible] them describe this as a humanitarian gesture and one that would show of pakistan the u.s. is committed to them in the long haul. what are you doing to offset the perception of the image created? >> what have we done in the aftermath of this frontier corps incident to counterbalance the fact that others may be using this against us? i do not know if we here are doing anything. our people aniline islamabad or the ise command may be undertaking things. i do not think this is something you do in the ad hoc basis in the aftermath of an incident. this is a long-term effort that i know the state department and the embassy in islamabad has

been working on for quite some time to try and change perceptions of america by pakistan. clearly there is goodness unto itself in providing us and disaster relief and humanitarian assistance in the wake of these incredible floods in pakistan. the ancillary benefit is that we budgeted $120 billion thus far for flood relief. as we spend the taxpayers' hard- earned dollars, this is enhancing our reputation and our image in the pakistan. we want to be thought of as we think of ourselves, and nation that is incredibly generous and helps those in need. this is a long-term effort including those within pakistan who are using propaganda and

manipulation to try and stir up anti-american sentiment because it suits their purposes. that is why we have tried to work closely with the government to try and counter balance those maligned influences. it is a long-term project. >> i am all over the place. i am sorry. >> my question is going to be similar to his so i will put this a different way. how free are u.s. forces to cross into pakistan and they prosecute their counter- terrorism mission? >> i do not see any purpose in the line in it -- delineating to you our rules of engagement. they would perhaps have better judgment in the efficacy of doing that than i would.

my attitude is i will express to the principle which is that wherever our forces are deployed around the world, they retain the right to defend themselves. they will not be shy about exercising that right if they feel threatened. >> if the united states asserts the right to attack terrorists and their supporters anywhere, does that live along the afghanistan-pakistan border outside of self-defense? >> i think our position on this is well known. i do not care to reticulate this. >> there have been increase of airstrikes in the past weeks. i was wondering if you have seen any connection between these attacks and the terror warnings in europe?

is there any link? >> i do not care to enter -- to talk to intelligence matters. the state department and to some degree the white house has spoken at length about this latest threat strain that has resulted in a traveler by the state department for americans in europe. i do not think i have much if anything to add to that discussion. yes, in the back. >> could i change the subject? >> anything else on pakistan? there is a joint investigation that has just wrapped up. the results of which will be released probably over night or early tomorrow morning in afghanistan in cobble -- kabul.

you will see what the results are. it would be premature of me to offer any thoughts on that at this point. >> are you comfortable with him being head of the state, head of the country dealing with him? >> i do not think i'm the best guide to address those questions to. we respect constitutional process these. whatever the results of such an election, we obviously respect to those results. you'd probably have to address that question to my colleagues at the white house where i do not work for the state department. >> how do you sense the role of

terrorism in [unintelligible] >> his tenure as a leader of pakistan predates my time here. i observed -- i guess it does not. i guess i was here. clearly he was a very close ally. they had a very tough choice to make in the wake of the attacks of 9/11 given some of the terrorist threats within their own country. they came out strongly and forcefully as an ally of this country in the war on terror. that is where they have remained ever since. >> yesterday in the and year -- >> it was not an interview. we will come back to you. let's change topics. go ahead, sir. >> allegations are swirling

around members of the stryker degrade -- brigade about covering up evidence, mutilating bodies, and this is a question about the change of -- chain of command. how concerned are you that they did not notice this kind of activity and are there any investigations in but what happens in the chain of command? >> not that i know of. i would address that question to the army to see to what extent they are looking into those issues. obviously i am very limited with what i can say because this being investigated in the military justice system. i do not want to say anything that could in any way jeopardize them to get a fair trial. i will back off on speaking to those issues. i have addressed them before and i do not have anything new to add other night than the fact

that these allegations are abhorrent and it is an aberration in the actions of our forces. i do not think they are in any way representative in how american military men and women behave in the field. we will let this trial take place and we will see what judgment is ultimately rendered. >> for the last month or so general petraeus has said he has evidence of high-ranking caliban -- taliban negotiating with the government. do you have any evidence of any negotiating parties showing increasing interest in that process?

praxair personally not, but that is given the fact that general petraeus personally is speaking to this issue. i think what we have seen, michael, and you travel with us and have heard this firsthand from general petraeus. as we have seen, there has been a high level out reached by some members of the caliban to the afghan government. -- by the taliban to the afghan government. there is a lower level and a reintegration of reconciliation efforts. we have seen more and more foot soldiers and ground commanders coming over to the government

and wishing to renounce their ties to the taliban and become a part of the constitutional government and at least respect the constitutional government. i think we have seen some larger numbers. i do not know if anyone is to the pointer to where they see a trend or connection in these individual or small groups that are not we integrating themselves into the mainstream. -- not reintegrating themselves. i think it is too soon to think these are connected or there is a wider movement afoot and that the tide is turning in terms of

reconciliation. the secretary, i know, believes that we still need to make more progress with regard to security on the ground. we need to take the fight more aggressively in and for a longer duration to the taliban and other extremists in afghanistan for them to feel the kind of pressure necessary for there to be a spark of movement. the operations in kandahar and the latest wave strike -- what was it called? dragon strike. thank you. the latest strike is continuing to put the pressure on these

guys. these are spots of security that are expanding in kandahar. there are growing and expanding. they are really putting the pressure, according to general petraeus, on the insurgents who have not fled the area. those who have remained, dug in, and are determined to fight our feeling enormous pressure. the operational tempo that we are now undertaking is extraordinarily fast. we have more troops than we have ever had before conducting more operations than ever before. they are clearly feeling it. to this gentleman over here. >> i have two questions regarding the u.s.-china-japan relations.

it was reported by the japanese that the united states and japan are slated to hold a joint military exercise in november as a mark of operation to take place. could you confirm this? if it is true, what would be the purpose of this operation? do you have any updated information when your secretary meets his chinese counterpart? >> let me take the second part first. remind me to come back to the first part. the question is will he meet with his counterpart in hanoi. we are working together to put a meeting together when secretary gates and his chinese counterpart are attending the

ministerial meeting in hanoi early next week. i do not know if we have confirmed this as of yet. i think both sides clearly wished to have such a meeting. we are working on the logistics of doing so. i expect we will be able to find a time and place to have such a meeting which would be significant in that it would be the first time the secretary has had a chance to engage with his chinese counterpart for nearly one year, i want to say. >> is it the same gentleman who came here? >> i believe it is, yes. then the effort would be, of course, to try and figure out a date and a time for the secretary to travel to beijing.

they began to lay out how of the resuming of military engagements would proceed. among the things, i think this is the week of the 11th -- that is next week, right? the week of the 11th to the marine military agreement talks will take place in hawaii. there will be a two-star representing and i do not know the rank of the chinese representative, but they will have conversations and work on a plan for us over the next year which will be reported to the defense talks in november and

december. the undersecretary of defense for policy will help here in washington. this is the resuming of the military-military relationship with china. thus far the talks have been largely focused on the mechanisms, the logistics. there has been some substance, but i think you will see some next week. then in november and december with the defense talks and of course if we are able to schedule the talks in hanoi. we're looking at early next year before we have a chance to get to beijing. what has been asked the fuss now is that the chinese have expressed to us a desire to host the secretary and a look for opportunities in his calendar which we are doing right now and

looking forward to reporting back some possible dates. our expectation is we would be able to travel and engage with the chinese as soon as possible. >> the first question was about the u.s.-japanese military exercise. i think you tried to connect that to the island dispute. no connection. it is not relating to any current events. this is merely about keeping up operations and our ability to operate well together. this has been long planned and is not related to the island dispute at all. >> the newspaper is linking the two together. >> they did that? newspapers. i cannot believe that. oftentimes things that are on related are connected in news

stories. that is part of why i have a job -- to push back on such things. >> you say we have seen a high level at reached by some high- ranking members of the taliban to the afghan government. >> this is an afghan process. i think you saw president karzai announced the new peace council that will be instrumental in the ultimate reconciliation we all hope will take place at some point. this is very much of their process to the extent that they want our input we will fully provided. this is led by the afghans. the engagements thus far have been between representatives of the taliban and the afghan

government. i think you have exhausted me and my knowledge. let's finish up with tony. >> they announced the stopping of flight testing. there is a lot of interest in the program. was there a significant problem that caused the grounding? when you think flight testing may resume? >> you probably have already gotten this from my colleagues, but i am no expert on the machinations of the testing procedures. during ground testing, there was a software anomaly in the fuel booster pump was detected indicating a potential failure that could affect the engine during flight. the incorrect sequencing was discovered during laboratory testing. it could possibly triggering a shutdown of all three boost palms further causing potential engine shut down. prudence dictates a suspension of operations until the fuel

boost, timing was corrected. azel for update has been deployed and is planned to complete required functional and safety tests prior to installation and testing beginning tuesday, october 5th. the fuel boast pomps provide positive pressure during all flight conditions. the minor software modification would correctly aligned to a boost, signal sequencing. -- correctly aligned fuel boost pump signal sequencing. the person who is in charge of this program, the vice admiral, does not believe this to be a serious setback. this is precisely why we have a testing program to try and encounter problems early, takes

them, and move on. i do not believe there is an aircraft we have ever developed, certainly not an advanced fighter like the f-35 that has not encountered some technical issue along the way that needed to be fixed or modified before the plan is fully developed. that is when we have encountered here, it sounds like, from what i have just related to you. they know how to fix it and they are in the process of doing so. i hope that answers your question. thank you, guys. have a good rest of the week. >> coming up, we will return to the white house for more from the first-ever community college summit. vice-president biogen's wife will run the afternoon session focusing on the role community

colleges play in the work force. that will be at 3:00 p.m. eastern live on c-span. this friday, bob woodward of "the washington post" will be on "washington journal." will "washington journal" is live every day starting at 7:00 a.m. eastern. his segment will start at 8:30 a.m. eastern here on c-span. every weekend on c-span3 come experience american history tv starting saturday at 8:00 a.m. eastern, 48 hours telling the american story. here historic stories and see eye witness events. visit museums, historical sites, and museums as the leading historians delve into america's past. american history tv all weekend, every weekend, on c-span3. >> enter c-span's student can

video documentary competition. the theme is washington, d.c., through my lines. talk about a topic that helps you better understand the role of the federal government in your life for community. be sure to include more than one point of view along with c-span programming. a down market -- down on your video deceased and by january 20th and you have a chance to win the grand prize of the $5,000. the student documentary competition is open to all students grades 6-12. go online to studentcam.org. >> and next, the only scheduled televised debate between the zero gubernatorial candidates in organ which took place last thursday in portland. kitzhaber is running against dudley.

kitzhaber is running to reclaim the job he had until 2003. dudley is a political newcomer with a strong local name recognition. the candidates were asked questions by kgw tv anchors and the audience. dudley is leading 49% to 43% percent but is now called a toss up. >> a critical debate in a critical election with oregon's budget on the brink, the question facing the voters -- who is best fit to lead or get into the future? tonight, in their first and only dudley and john kitzhaber take

questions from reporters and the public as they fight for your vote this november. from kgw news 8 and "the oregonian" this is a decision 2010 special -- the bait for governor. >> good evening everyone. thank you for being with us tonight. we are pleased to be able to bring you this debate. we are statewide thanks to the organization of broadcasters. our goal is to help you make of your mind about who you want to be the 37 the governor of the state of oregon and to help you decide the candid it -- candidates will be answering questions from the host of our "straight talk."

a group of undecided voters here in the studio will get to answer your questions. we have asked the debate coach at portland state university to help us keep the candidates on time. i do not think he is judging you guys tonight. with so little time and so many issues, we want to get right to it. for the first section of the debate, candidates will get one minute to answer the question and the opponent will get 30 seconds to respond. we grew at a time to determine podium position and the order of closing statements. chris dudley, your first question. >> thank you for being with us. mr. dudley, whoever will be governor will have a monumental task with a $3.2 billion budget

deficit. some question your lack of experience. you have never been in the government. you have never managed anything. can you tell us your specific qualifications to be governor? what can you say tonight to convince voters that you have what it takes and you are ready to solve the problems to take on organ's top job? >> thank you for having us here for this debate. i will start off with the promise of experience. our past two governors have had over 60 years between them. we are 47th in job growth, 43rd in quality of schools. we are multinational leaders in homelessness. we need outside government experience to come in. i offer a vision of how to take organ for word from the path we have been on. i have outlined a 26. plan. -- 26 point plan. we need to get out of the-that

-- mindset that the answer is more taxes. the answer is more jobs which means more taxpayers. is my vision and experience. we need leadership to take this forward. i look forward to taking were given to me meet its potential. >> mr. kitzhaber? >> during my eight years we created 120,000 jobs and move forward. that experience will be essential today. we do not have a lot of time for on-the-job training. we have a $3 billion budget deficit. i have proposed a plan to create thousands of new jobs now wideout chris proposes a plan that does not create jobs in the plan. >> the next question will go to miss kitz -- mr. kitzhaber. >> use a you want to launch a

massive whether -- weatherization project. how will you do that now that the state treasury says there is no capacity? does it make sense to take on $100,000 in new debt for each job created? >> these would not be ordinary general obligation bonds. they are paid for by themselves with energy savings. the idea, and i do agree with the treasury that we need to cap the amount of obligation the state has committees are structured differently. also they will leverage significant private resources to get them involved. the net result will be the creation of a significant middle-income jobs throughout oregon, a good trade jobs. if we use organ products -- products it makes

sense. it puts people back to work can generates tax revenue. then we move to private and commercial buildings we can continue the job growth with those resources and revenues streaming in for one decade. >> the answer to your question is it does not make sense when our state credit card is maxed out. it does not make sense to borrow $100 million for 100,000 job -- 100,000 temporary jobs. .

>> to think that that does not influence where capital flows is naive or dishonest. we need to create an environment where people will invest in jobs for the people of oregon. i have made this point over and over, 11% of zero is a zero. just this week of was reading two different articles. one of them had a ranking of the

fastest-growing companies in the united states. two were in the state of oregon. the other article was talking about what was happening in california. businesses fleeing. where were they going? the utah. why not portland, eugene? we have to create an environment where businesses will come to the state to invest capital and create jobs for the people of oregon and by doing this we will have more revenue for schools and hospitals. >> let's look at what chris is actually proposing. $800 million for tax cuts that will not create is some -- a single job for the people who are out of work today. the fact is that we need to improve the environment for reinvestment in oregon as a state. but the way that you do it is not by giving away money to the least deserved, you create jobs

for middle-income workers. mr. dudley has not proposed an immediate job creation plan and does not support making schools more efficient. >> mr. kitzhaber, you are seeking an unprecedented third term. they blame you for the bad situation that our state is in now. please why you want to be governor again and why you deserved another four years. >> we are at an important time for you need the government that has the experience, the skills, and shares the values of the people. i believe that i can go to salem on the first day and get my hands around a budget crisis, balancing within the resources that we have. i am the only candidate in this race that is creating private- sector jobs, negotiating with

businesses and foreign companies. the only candidate in this race that has managed a big enterprise, the balance of the budget. i am concerned about middle- class families, the plight of the elderly, i'd like to create jobs today and not tomorrow. i am concerned about the environment and a woman's right to choose. those values need to be reflected in how we prioritize our budget next year. those are the reasons i feel qualified for this job and i think that people will vote based on my qualifications. >> as you know, we share many of those values. but when you talk about the experience, we cannot go back to the past. spending went up by 57% during your time as governor, you did not stabilize rainy day funds or reconfigure education.

he walked out saying that the state was on governable. -- un-governable. we have to take advantage of the access we have here. we live in one of the most beautiful states in the country, we must push forward. >> going back to that budget deficit and how you would solve at, without talking about prospects of government waste or state employee salaries, most analysts agree that it will take something really big. what services would you suggest such that we could not afford to do something that we could do any more? >> i reject the premise that we have not addressed labor costs. we must. right now we are facing a $14.2 billion budget. if revenues hold up, $15.1

billion. we are increasing the amount that we are going for, but we cannot increase the amount we want on the same path. which is why we are getting away from automatic budget increases, getting away from the idea that just because the department spent x with a 10% increase, we have to talk about the elephant in the room. labor costs make up 75% of the general fund. i said that i would not state co-workers. my mother, my sister, their teachers. great people. labor costs are slated to go up by 15% in the next year. at the end of the day it is about job growth. >> i think that we need to recognize that 93% of the general fund is spent in three areas and we are flat funded,

essentially. so, the cuts have already been made. the question is how we take the money that we know that we have and spend it differently going forward to create a system of public education to rebuild social services and the economy. we need to recognize that the cuts have been made. we will have a flat funded school system and a flat funded set of human-resources, and we need to be innovative in moving those forward successfully. >> i guess i have to continue this discussion a little bit, i never heard either of you say that these are services that we have had during the good times, things that our state has funded that we cannot afford. as a family when you have to cut your budget, something like this, can you not say that there is anything that we have to learn to live without at the

state level that we live with in good times? >> again, most of the budget is involved in three large areas. we will not be cutting education, eliminating prisons, taking away the people that need medical care. i and k through 12 we need to provide the school system with money that those kids can count on from every year through 2000. it will not be adequate, but it will be stable. the overall amount is a big problem, not knowing from month to month, to money you have. we will have to set priorities went in the department of human resources. deciding who is the most vulnerable, putting someone into a higher care setting. not as simple as finding a single programs. there are small programs that we can eliminate, but there are bigger programs where there needs to be aspects that are

address. >> one example there might be betsy, the energy tax credits in 2007, the program was projected to cost $10 million, now it could be as high as $900 million when all is said and done. we found out that dollars were being wasted, sending tax credits to a company in texas that did 1% of their business in the state. we will have to be more efficient with the money we have, focus on the areas we want government to be in. >> your question now goes to mr. dudley. >> depending on who you speak to, man-made global warming either threatens the long-term future of the world or is a scam perpetuated by environmentalists. given that, is it not important if the people understand whether you think global warning -- warming is a threat or not?

i would love to be let in on your thinking tonight. what is global warming -- global warming? and manmade threat, or not? >> my thought is this. global warming exists, mankind contributes. i do not know how much is man- made or natural. the way i look at it, let's go to where we can build consensus. makes sense for the state and country to be independent in terms of energy. it makes sense to reduce carbon emissions. i embrace alternative sources. we need to focus on what the people agree on and the areas where we can do a better job. look at other sources. hydro has been a great advantage for the northwest and we should continue using that. we have wind, waves. we should look at solar and embrace it going forward.

this is something where we can find common agreements and go forward, doing so in a manner that does not needlessly raise rates or eliminate jobs. that is the bottom line. >> your response? >> i believe that global climate change is human and it poses an enormous threat to our country and nation. i think that we should banned oil drilling off the oregon coast, particularly what happened off of the gulf coast. morgan is in a tremendously powerful position to become a leader in renewable energy and energy management. an industry that we can export to world markets and improve the competitive advantage of our own industries by applying those to the businesses here in the state of oregon. >> your question goes to mr. kitzhaber. >> president obama said that bad

teachers should be terminated. in the past you have proposed merit pay for teachers and some say that you are beholden to the teachers' union that supports you. what is wrong with this -- supporting good teachers and cutting out bad teachers, especially when the president stands by this approach. >> it depends on your basis for measurement. i do not support evaluating teachers based on a single performance. there are a host of factors beyond the control of classroom teachers. are they coming to school hungry? living in a car? living -- learning english for the first time? how much as the student loan? how much progress is being made? if teachers need to get the resources for the students that need additional help, we need to get those resources to teachers. if they do not follow the

professional development, they need to be eliminated and there has to be a process to do that, but we should remember who these people are. they are not the enemy. we ask them to do an enormous burden and we need a fair evaluation for their work. we need to reward the good ones and the people that cannot cut it to meet -- need to be dismissed. >> as someone with three children in public schools, yes, i was disappointed that in the race to the top we were topgf. -- we were graded f. when it was time to reapply, we decided not to try. instead of racing for the top, we decided to run for the hills. you have to look at how to change it and make it better. this is about treating teachers as professionals, not just employees.

giving them tools, the awards, giving them incentives. >> mr. dudley, in the primary debate you admitted to purchasing a home in washington and to avoid paying taxes while you played for the trail blazers. what you said your critics? >> i think it was an unfair criticism. i would say that the other campaign did not understand, you pay taxes on every game that should play in oregon. i paid $460,000 in taxes at that time. i did not turn my back. i gave well over $1 million to oregon charities. i was involved in the community in a number of ways. it is not fair to say that sometimes in a political season

of those things come out. taxes matter. there are over 95,000 people that live in washington at work in oregon today. thousands of people come from washington and california to shop here because there is no sales tax. it is naive to say that this does not influence behavior and i am the first to point out that we must change our thinking. so that it is than 11% of zero. it makes sense to realize that taxes matter. >> response? >> i have no response. >> your question goes to mr. kitzhaber. >> in 1999 you and your wife got an unusual home loan from a local stock brokerage. the company had only one other home loan on its books at the time and you pointed it the owner to the oregon investment council.

why not simply give the conventional home loan? why did you appoint someone to this sense of the state's position that was so involved in your personal finances? is europe " -- opponent right to raise questions about your ethics? >> in 1999 i purchased the home, taking out a loan from a company i have been involved in. i paid market great interest, paying off the loan. i was nominated, not appointed, nominated by qualified individuals. they were examined and cross- examined by the republican legislature. both of these questions remind me of a quote from thomas pynchon. that if you can keep from asking the wrong questions, you do not have to worry about the answers. seems that the questions are not how to put oregon back to work, the questions are who has the experience and are the

reflections of our values taking us through this difficult time. those other questions we need to focus on. >> i agree, but the question is how we do we establish trust in oregon. the question that you got this loan, it destroys trust and it is something we should look at. it is not fortunate that it happen. as governor, when i am governor, that will not happen in my office. you have to be completely transparent. people need to know that when you are appointed one of the high as boards in the state, it is done for the right regions -- reasons. >> your question is for mr. dudley. >> forget the mumbo jumbo of land use law, i want each of you to give a concrete example of how land is being used or not be used in this state that bothers you.

given the example of a development that you do not like in a certain place, or land that you think should be developed that is not allowed. please, be specific. >> i will have to think about that one. let me think. developments i do not think should be there? i will say this, the one thing i found as i travel the state, time and again i found that one set of rules does not apply everywhere. i think it is important that we differentiate from the different localities and their needs. as far as development, we want to make sure that development is restrained, but we also want to check property rights. i cannot think of the top of my head that one specific area that i would not want belts, but going forward is important to have a clear set of rules that

people understand and available land to protect property rights and for when people want to develop those for business or residential. i will have to get back to you on that particular. >> i do not want to see the casino bill to by m boards, that is one. [laughter] -- the casino built in lords, that is one. [laughter] you have to be quick here. we must integrate land use with transportation policy, housing policy, economic development policy, so you do not have buildings and jobs over here creating enormous traffic problems. we have to look at much more integration of these decisions going forward, increasing costs through congestion is not a goal. >> on the freeway it can be fun. the last question of the round

goes to mr. kitzhaber. >> because of the bad money lost in the market, taxpayers are hoping for an extra $1 billion to help fund the republican and tire -- for the retirement employee program. if elected again, what would you do to make it a sustainable service? >> be created the second tier while i was governor and we started to address the problem at that time. today we had short-term and long-term problems that have to be addressed at the next meeting as they are significant parts of the budget process, meaning that we will take it on and resolve it. as to whether it is found and affordable, those are not necessarily the same thing. both of those issues will have to be address. i would argue that the should be address in the 2013 meeting,

reducing the budget deficit, meaning we will have to reduce overall compensation. as well as employee contributions to health care. i am committed to having an actual sustainable system. complete and economic issue that we must address together. >> we must get on a sustainable path for oregon. in looking at health care costs and celery, it is important to look at total compensation, slated to go up by 13% to 15% over the next few years. we have to talk about this in a fair and reasonable manner. it reminds me of talking to a

negotiator from the unions who worked with corporations. corporations would tell them that they could get $2 per hour as an increase, which is the top line and we can divide it however you want. however, we have to bring that back. >> all right, thank you. we will move on to the audience. each candidate will get one minute to answer the same question from the audience. we will start with mr. dudley. >> first question comes from ted in portland. >> tell me what you will do to advance a comprehensive tax reform in the state of oregon. please discuss the income tax, property tax, and sales tax. >> in one minute. [laughter] >> as you know, i have outlined bringing down the capital gains

tax immediately. first of all, it is just over 2% of our overall revenue in i think it can dramatically impact getting businesses started by an oregon. but i have found traveling across the state in each of the 36 counties, meeting with elected officials, what i have found over and over is that people do not want to hear about vortexes. they want to hear about spending first. there is an overwhelming thought that we want you to get your house in order to get control of your costs. just like homes and businesses. after that, we can address revenue. something that we should have a comprehensive look at. but first we looked at the spending first. reducing capital gains to give businesses flowing, creating jobs. not just for the wealthy, but for everyone. we need jobs in this state.

the bottom line is that if we cannot afford the quality of life we want, we do not have the jobs. >> i will try to answer the question. at the local level we will have measures of fighting and 50 because many of these towns are in compression due to the population growth that makes it difficult for the vital services. on the side of the state, we have two issues. 93% of our income comes from volatile conditions. our inability to provide long- term funding for schools, next session we need to deal with a kicker and build ourselves the big savings account to bring stability during the bad times. i tried to create one of these and in the 1990's but the administration refused to adopt it.

personally, i believe it is time to diversify the tax base. there are a variety of ways to do it but i do not think that is a discussion that we can avoidhu any longer -- avoid any longer. >> next question for the audience for mr. kitzhaber. >> i wanted to know if now would be a good time to consider repealing, in your opinion, and why not? >> i would not support repealing, although it would be nice to have an economy, doing what responsible families do, saving to tide themselves over during the bad times. i support modification of a kicker to create well- capitalized savings accounts with tight controls on how it is access to make sure it is used

for specific purposes in the educational system. as i said earlier, that is just the first step. the larger problem is the extraordinarily volatile tax base. the bottom falls out of our ability and education is the cornerstone for economic growth and prosperity into the future. a very important debate and the governor will have to wait. >> i think it has been overblown, the impact that the kicker will have. it will not make a big impact. we must get away from the answer always be more taxes. looking at the spending side, look at how we budget, establish a rainy day fund. our revenue system is very vulnerable. it always will be, even if we

added a sales tax. the point is that when we add the funds and put them aside for when times are not as bad, you're spending does not share the volatility. i have had an overwhelming response from people wanting spending under control first. that is the direction of would go and i think they are expecting government to get that under control. >> the next question goes to mr. dudley. >> it comes from jeff of portland. >> what is the biggest difference between you and the other candidate? >> besides size? [laughter] fighting it is the ideas. i passionately believe that we need to go in a new direction, that we cannot continue to do the same old thing that got us here. john wants to defend the status quo, which is where we are

today. no. 1 in homelessness, no. 2 in hunger. it is not working. the verdict is in. i think my emphasis on job growth, that we cannot afford the quality of life that we won. as long as we are at 10.6% unemployment, it will love work. we must take steps in an afterthought as priority number one. my number one job will be to create jobs in the state of oregon and get our economy going again. i think that is the biggest difference between us. >> the difference between a new phase in new ideas, but these are old ideas that come right back to george bush. the center for economic development policy, it is

predominantly for upper-income oregonians, spending money with no clear way to be paid for. we have concerns over the $17,000 per year waitress. these are the same policies that led to disenchantment in education and infrastructure that is fundamental. it is not enough to have a new face. you have to have ideas that are attached to the 21st century. repealing the single sales tax or workers comp system created a great program, but now we have to with a huge difference raising this budget deficit. >> we are going to take one of the online questions, they are

fantastic. this one comes from haiti -- peggy. "what have we learned from the last recession that will help us get out of this one more quickly"? >> the savings account that we attempted to set up in the 1990's, we failed to do that. and we must diversify the economy beyond the level manufacturing, we must compromise on expertise and technology to create a business " -- cluster of knowledge-based exports. the third thing, although we support our sector industries, we have not done a good job in keeping the resources here. part of that has to be local supply chains and keeping those dollars circulating in oregon,

connected with the products industry, creating a much more vibrant, strong economic web to helpless in the fluctuations in the international economy. glad first, we must the establish a rainy day fund. you cannot turn economic development on and off. oregon is in the middle of a 14- year losing streak. the unemployment rate has been higher than the national average for 14 years. the national economy is bad. no question, but when your 47 tons -- 45 times better, you learn from that. something that john said that is not true in at this point in the

campaign so often there are misleading statements. i have never stated they want to raise the minimum wage with only 2% of our revenues and we cannot keep defending the status quo. >> we will start with you, you're out of time but do not go far. who are intent -- intelligent and independent speakers --

>> i think that this is an issue of great importance. something that i am open to surly looking at and embracing. makes sense to look at the different ways which is something i am certainly open to looking at in terms of the best way to go about it. one thing i was disappointed in the did not get on the ballot was redistricting. eliminating the gerrymandering that happens now. and party talks about getting rid of the partisanship and working together, something i

look forward to doing, building consensus going forward. >> you will commit to working on it without supporting it? >> mr.k? >> ehud let people vote in the primary. very simple. i was involved last year with the governor. if you look at the franchise of voting in america, it always includes more people rather than fewer people. by excluding 25% of them from the froth, it increases the chance of disenfranchisement. we should open the primary and allow everyone to vote. the top two candidates would be running in the general lection.

an important concept to reduce partisanship. certainly we will continue to support that. >> this question goes to mr. kitzhaber. >> in terms of jump-start economy, one is to put money in the hands of people that have the wherewithal to create jobs and hope for a trickle down. there is also putting funds out to as many as possible. what is your method of stimulation in the economy? >> i think that you have to take advantage of opportunities that create jobs on the front end. my proposal to put people back to work through large-scale energy efficiency projects creates jobs in the short term, putting money in people's pockets, providing resources for retailers.

i think it is very important. two point i also agree on the capital gains tax, supporting a modification of that for the resources invested in oregon. we need to create a climate that encourages those with liquidity to reinvest in those resources as long as there is evidence demonstrating we will create jobs. it is a combination of the immediate job creation and middle-income jobs that will be going up above the national average, creating a climate so that money may hear is reinvested in the state. >> i think i have talked about reducing capital gains, which will create jobs for the people. i have also talked about giving small businesses credit for hiring people off welfare or unemployment, getting them back into the workforce.

it helps to decrease the amount that the government has the support. and that is a bottom-line. different schools of thought? i want to be clear, that is what this is about. from the death spiral, which is a climate not conducive for business. we make things even tougher for business. we're also going backwards. we need job growth in the state for everyone. >> mr. dudley. >> where do you stand on taxation of food and beverage,

tobacco and liquor? " we have had in play i have not brought up but it is something we will continue with cities and counties relying on it as well. it is not something we're talking about changing. tax -- >> we continue to increase cigarette taxes on the cost of tobacco being this huge in the overall health care system taxation on hard liquor provides important services for counties and alcohol-related incidents. i know that mr. dudley with a

budding industry creating real jobs of their. and i do not think the state should take steps to destroy private sector jobs at this time. >> the next audience question? >> i wanted to know your thoughts on the $110 trillion deficit and if you were governor of oregon, how would you prepare us for the national government being rare -- rendered insolvent. >> you have touched on the biggest problem facing the nation. the second debate the will of

last year was really a debate about insurance, not reform. we will have a tremendous opportunity to get waivers, creating a pilot project in health care delivery before, focusing not so much on acute- care, but accused based management. >> saving the businesses $14 i do think that oregon or some state will have to lay -- will have to leave at some point. >> mr. dudley? >> i agree with your concern. as a state we have been -- and we have to stop because our rate

of spending has been on sustainable and is out of step with the jobs away from a federal level we will continue to get hit down with unhanded mandates. does it make sense do take this program if it will cause our state more money in the long run? and if it does not pencil out, we will reject it. as a nation and as a state, we need fiscal responsibility. the time is now. i have three young children and i do not want to hand this off to them. you have to stop now. >> i did not want to let you get too far, this one comes from joan, she is so direct.

what is the point of all those negative advertisements? since august it has been all negative advertisements. i was hoping we were able to talk about ideas going forward. obviously this is my first election, new to the process. all those advertisements, frankly, misleading statements, are not going to create any more jobs. and the plan that i put out on government reform, education, jobs. i would like to talk about our

future and how great this state can be. that is where this election should be going. >> i have to say that the advertisements are more comparative than anything else. in most elections most candidates seek out opportunities like this to demonstrate the differences. this is unusual election, the only time we will have to do this. when you do not have that opportunity again to mr. dudley has spent $3 million by now to define himself and me on television but fortunately we still have time. i would like to ask you to join me bad the city club next friday for another one of these opportunities to provide the people with this opportunity to learn our views and how we plan to address the state in these

difficult times. >> are you going? >> i would like to invite john to debate medford. four dates, except one. >> clear they want to get together. [laughter] >> go ahead, diane. >> there are many reasons to support renewable energy resources. but these do, they cost. how can we meet our goals and still keep energy available and affordable for that the power plumbing -- power planning council indicates they need 85% of their expected energy, one of the reasons i propose that a large-scale energy efficiency project. in oregon we have a tremendous

portfolio of renewable energy. we have a budding industry in oregon that is making us more energy independent. furthermore, we have a significant opportunity to begin to engage the utility's and private money markets, financing markets in conservation and served in the same way that a kilowatt generator is reserve. using conservation rather than new generation. we are in a great place to create not only a new in it -- new industry and reduce the cost of living for businesses and homeowners through energy confirmation. >> going forward, i would agree that conservation is the cheapest way to address these needs.

the governor of hawaii had a very ambitious goal to get to renewable resources. i think 35% was conservation. a key component that embraces other areas we already have. doing so in a way that is reasonable to ratepayers. we have to be careful of what we are asking them to pay for. and we have to be clear when we talk about our goals, we must clearly articulate what the cost will be and what the transmission lines are going to look like, making sure that is all out line so that the choices are clear to the voters going forward. we have incredible resources with incredible opportunities. we are known as a green state and we should embrace that, but we should do it in a reasonable way.

>> personally i feel we are just getting warmed up, but we are out of time for questions. thanks to all of you that came to rest questions. we will now move to the closing statements. mr. dudley will go first. one minute 30 seconds. >> are you happy with the fact that the oregon unemployment rate has been above the national average for 14 years? proud of the fact that we are one of the national leaders in hunger and homelessness? sending our kids to public schools that have been ranked as 43rd in the country? is the answer to our problems 43 years of the policies that brought us here? if you answered yes to those questions and that this is the best that oregon can do, i suggest you vote for my opponent. if you believe, as i do, that we can do so much better, and that

we must move away from the partisan politics of the past, that oregon needs a governor that will lead us in a new direction, i ask you for your vote in your help. turning around oregon is not a job for one man, it is a jobs for all of us. together, rural, urban, suburban, republican, democrat, independent, we can show that we are not stoppable. >> each election is a choice. i have lived in and love oregon for most of my life, as a doctor or public servant i were around the state, standing up for values. middle-class, women's rights, the environment. there are more differences.

oregon needs jobs. more importantly, i have a plan to create thousands of new jobs now. by comparison, my opponent has a plan for tax rate cuts for high- income people. how will we pay for it? taking money away from education, health care, social services. in fact, over half of his proposals increased spending that we do not have. this is no time to raise taxes, but also no time to spend money we do not have. we have a great state with a promise for the future but it will take a governor that can start on day one, protecting social services in their schools. those are things i have stood for all my life and i will continue to fight for that every day. here is something else that you can count on, our best days are still ahead.

asking for your vote, november 2. thank you. >> thank you, gentlemen. we want to thank our studio audience for your great participation, you head home for watching, as well as the candidates. thank you for making this happen. remember, your ballot needs to be in by 8:00 p.m. on november 2, so get out and vote. for more logon to oregonlive.com. or switch over to8.2 8.247 over the air. thank you, have a great night.

>> we have more campaign 2010 programming coming up tonight at 8:00 eastern. 8:00, the illinois governor debates. after that, washington journal coverage. later, debates from new hampshire and connecticut. >> coming up shortly we will have more from the first-ever community college summit from the white house today with remarks from dr. jill biden and education secretary arne duncan, focusing this afternoon on the role of community colleges in developing the american work force. live coverage here in about 10 minutes. until then, your phone calls, looking at ways to fund college education, from this morning's "washington journal." "the washington post"

with that story. it says that gallup found the increase in those who plan to make little or no contribution to tuition increase, especially among hispanic families.

by the way, we will be covering that event. it starts this morning and goes into the afternoon and you can go to c-span.org for our coverage. so, are you paying for college or do you plan to pay for college? texas.

a student. what do you think? caller: i am unique. just looking at the statistics you h. i am a returning student. i came in in the 2006, texas a&m, and i can definitely tell you my ition has gone up. in 2006, it was about $3,000 for the semester -- sorry, for the year. almost about $4,000 for the year. now it is abo $6,000 for a semester. i don't know what the percentage of that is, but it is a $2,000 increase -- or a $4,000 increase. my parents helped me pay. but i am still waiting for my financially. but more than likely i will have to take all loans of my own and have my parents support on the side.

host: do you think that your parents had to contribute less because of the economy? did they plan to give you more? caller: not necessarily more or less thing. as far as it goes, it was the same amount. what i am trying to say is that the inflation rate of what we are plate -- paying has gone up. it may be more in the numerical value but actually the same amount. host: i think i missed that part. you say you are returning. why did you return? and how old are you? caller: i am 23 years old. i came here when i was 19. to be quite honest, i partied too much and got into too much trouble. i left. i matured through those years. lost my job, got evicted, and

decided to go back to college because i need to get this done so i can have a better job in the future. i came back here. i was on academic probation but i am getting off on that thankfully this semester. i am proud of that. host: what are you majoring in? caller: political science major and minor in philosophy and i plan on going to grad school to pursue a law degree at the university of texas'. host: appreciate a phone call. lexington, ky. jane on the line for parents. is paying for college tuition a priority for you? caller: yes, it is a priority. my problem is, i've got two daughters who are four yrs apart. one is a sophomore at university of kentucky and the other is a

sophomorin high school. two years ago when this market meltdown happen, my daughter's college plans lt about 50%. i am having to shift money from the retirement account to pay for college. i assumed it would have all been paid for. host: what about student loans? haveou decided against that? caller: no, i haven't. but i see too many kids coming out of college with a lot of debt. when they get a job, their priority is paying on the student loan. it makes the life style for them very difficult. host: the article talks about that this is reverberatingn washington, this issue. i wondering what you would like to see your elected representatives do on this issue when it comes to the cost of college tuition. caller: i would like to see them

kind of keep a cap on it of some sort. the universities -- our public universities have been increasing about 5% a year. from four years ago, the increase in college tuition has skyrocketed really. and the kids that are out there having to work and its total loans to pay for their college education because their parents can't afford to pay for college, it's terrible. host: why do you say that? you were talking to talk about -- starting to talk about that. how difficult it is when you graduate with a lot of student loans. caller: i have seen stories where people graduate from college and i have 40,000, 50,000, $70,000 of student loans. that is like having to pay a mortgage even before you start to pay for a place to live.

and the job you get, certainly they will not come out of college making 100 grand a year. host: talking about whether paying for college is a priority. we divided the lines by parents and students. trenton, new jersey. linda on our parents line. what are your comments on this issue? caller: i have one border that i wanted to send toollege -- daughter. all my life itas my goal. but i ended up losing my job over a year ago. now the money that i have for her, i had to use it to provide

my own expenses and living. i was just down to the unemployment office yesterday trying to get some assistance for goin to school, and everything i wanted to do for school cost so much, i don't know what dirtion to go. i'm lost. host: you are trying to go to school yourself? caller: yes. host: and you want to senyour daughter to school. what school? caller: she wanted to be a pediatrician. she wanted to go to princeton. we talked about it. now she decided to go into the service so they can help pay for her school. host: hudson, new hampshire. good morning, grace, on the parents line. caller: yes, i have a student who is in college right now and i pay for his first two years and now i am making him pay for his second two years. even with him working full time six days a week during the

summer he did not make enough money to pay for one semester of college. and he is going to the cheapest college here, which is $6,000 a semester. buys his books on line. in order to pay for that he had them shipped to him from thailand and places like that in order to make it affdable. i went to school in california, and even now -- i went to school in california, worked part time and i came out with no student to death. a he can't work full-time and pay for college. host: what about living expenses? caller: he lives at home. host: wt do you want washington to do about it? caller: i want to look at what colleges are paying for. when i can only make a 10th of a percent on a savings account, and college tuition goes sky high. it his first year, -- his first

year, when the economy went south, they charge me within two weeks, they said it would be an extra $800. if if the economy improves, we will give you a refund. sure. yeah, with less than a month before school started. they sent a note out. host: when you walk around campus or drive around the campus, what do you see happening that you think they arspending money on? caller: not particularly this campus but another campus in new hampshire, within the last four years they made the building much nicer, they redid the library, did all these kinds of things it and just hiked the price up to the students. when i asked them why are you spending so much money on these

capital improvements, the answer was, well,e have to attract better stunts and the way to do that is to make fancier cafeterias, fancier libraries and all these other things. host: we are talking about whether paying for college tuition is a priority during these economic times. it is a headline in "the washington post" this morning.

michigan. mark on our line for students. what is your situation? caller: i was a student before i refuse to take out any more loans. it is sad how we created a system that can prey on the poor that just wants to get an education. it is very sad. we've got to look into this government system that we created to help these people get an education. they are making a whole lot of money. that is why i don't go to school anymore. host: how old were you when you dropped out,hat year? caller: at 30 years old i finally was allowed to go to school. i was making a 4.0 grade point average. i asked for a scholarship, if there was any other way i could get help. the nt day i got a letter and was kicked out of the university

for bothering the teachers, they said. host: we will go to wisconsin. james online for parents. caller: good morning. some people have already stolen my thunder on this issue. i put a daughter through college and my wife and i, we saved our money, but that was in not within the first two years. we are a middle-class family. when my dghter graduated, the job was an entry-level position. she wasn't making the money to pay back her loans. she had about $20,000 worth of loans. so, i am paying that for her. she is my daughter, i love her, and i will do that, but the system is screwed up. middle-class people can't afford to send their kids to college. host: was it a four-year college? caller: it was a four-year private institution, which was a little more expensive, granted.

she did not go to the state university, which would have been a little cheaper, but not much cheaper. host: do you think it was worth it? caller: definitely. she got a great education. host: did she get a great job from that education? caller: she has a job she loves, puit that way, but her salary does not pay her enough to allow her to pay her loans back. you know, middle-class people work hard. there should be a way where we can send our kids to school and be able to afford it in this country. host: what you think about two- year colleges, community colleges, did you consider that? caller: my son went to a two- year college, a technical college, and he is doing great. he is making more money than my daughter. he is a machinist/weld. -- welder. host: this is "usa today" this

morning. it says on mony president obama announced an initiative in which companies, labor unions and two-year colleges will collaborate to improve job training and work force development. we are going to be covering that event today, go to c-span.org. it says here -- among the companies that have already signed on, mcdonald's.

we will goo new york. on the line for students. good morning, dakota. you are on the air. is it a priority to pay for college? did your parents help you out? caller: i had to flip the bill completely myself. i came from a humble background. i had just completed four years at a private liberal arts institution and i am now continuing my degree at a

seminary. i am going through it financially. i don't have insurance. and i love president obama but he does not seem to be helping folks my age. for me to get insurance, i have to go back on my parents' insurance, and ty don't have any. i would like to be a grown person. host: how old you -- are you? caller: i am 22 years old. host: joran, on the line for pants. caller: good morning. i would like to comment on a couple of things. my home country -- seven years ago, which i took my daughters. my one son i had to leave here. they both went to a university

in another country, in great britain, which happens to be absolutely free. i come here just recently and i find out that my older son would like to go to college. so we went just last week. i was astonished at the cost involved that a child has to go through. and the parents, to put your kids through school year. -- here. quite frankly, i would never bring my children back to this country to put them through the hool and system because it is blatantly obvious that it was run like a business. back i britain, the experience was totally different. it was on an acamic level. it was about the children, seeing if they were qualified to go through a schooling system and so on and so forth. host: fort wayne, indiana. mike on our parents line. what are your comments or

thoughts on this? caller: certainly education is critical. it empowers families and individuals and i can't say enough about it. what i want to talk about is one method of funding in education is the new gi bill, called the chapter 33. it is an enormous benefit to correct military people. but what i believe what to talk about is that benefit can be transferred -- but what i really want to talk about is that benefit can be transferred to their children. it provides entire tuition. $1,000 book stipend and a monthly living stipend of $1,500. host: itan be transferred -- does that just mean the white and the kids? caller: that is correct. it would go to the service member's dependent. it is a wonderful thing. let me explain a real disparity. you would have to be in service

as of 9/11, the lawmakers are hellbent on that date to allow the new malls. someone who is permanently disabled or died in service, their children qualify for another chapter, chapter 35. that amount that those children get it is like $95a month. that is it. so, there is a disparity. let us say the uss cole, 70 sailors died on that in october of 2000. let's say the children of one of the sailors, that family is struggling. maybe one parent trying to raise thfamily. the va provides a provision --

they get $950 a month. host: what is your experience? caller: i am a permanent disabled veteran, a veteran advocate, so i am familiar with this thing. i am not able to work. service connected totally disabled veteran. but anyway, the disparity is it you could have a child whose parents lived and they are getting significantly more money and they may be sitting across the table or a class from someone whose parents died in the military, providing service to our country, yet that job gets significantly less money. it is currently ing looked at in congress. however, the provision for pre- 9/11 children are veterans is not even being coidered. it is a tremendous disparity that i certainly hopeur lawmakers look at and that society looks at as a whole. i think those to give their

lives in service to their country ould be put on the top billing. host: we will go to the student line from reno, nevada. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am 39 years old. i just started my first semester back in school. my main concern is with the outcome of the midterm election. i am hearing talk about, the gop talks allot about cutting entitlements and all kinds of funding and spending and one of the things they are talking about is cutting the pell grants. i worked in a blue-collar job up until read abouthe time of the 2008 in action and was laid off -- right about the time of the 2008 election and i was laid off. nevada has the worst unemployment in the nation. it doesn't seem to be looking

up. my only hope is to stay in school. so come i am concerned that this funding is going to be cut. maybe i would tell people to, maybe if they are concerned about continuing in their education, you might want to consider the way they vote. and to let people know, maybe some of the parents who are calling, i got a full grant from fafsa.com. host: we will keep talking about this issue for the next 20 minutes or so on "washington john." but i want to give the political news. "the new york times" this morning tas about candidates taking the stage for a crucial debate season. many of the candidates in these hotly contested races will be squaring off in debates over the next month. we will be covering a lot of

them on c-span. if you go to c-span.org /politics, you will see the upcoming event, on the web page, what the dates we will be covering them. we will be airing them at night. our prime time coverage kicks off this week. it will be around 8:00 p.m. eastern time, monday through friday. christine o'donnell, senate candidate, tea party candidate, republican running in delaware for joe biden's seat has a new at this morning. >> i am not a witch. i am notng you've heard. i am you. none of us are perfect, but none of us can be happy with what we see all round us. politicians who think spending, trading favors and back room deals are the ways to stay in office. i will go to washington and do what you'd do. i'm christine obama, and i approve this message. i'm you.

host: this morning on "washington journal" we are talking about whether paying for college is a priority. alexandria, virginia. caller: how are yodoing? i used a prepaid tuition program of the state of virginia. my daughter went through four years of college. average four -- $4,000 a year. what many people think one of the best schools of the country. i was one of four children myself. for my parents, education was an important thing. all four children have gone through college. my parents could afford to pay only because they made it a priority. if you make it a priority and you instill in your children and entrepreneurial spirit, there is a way to have accomplished. right now the school a daughter went to is tend thousand dollars a year and i only paid $4,000 a year. i prepaid the whole amount when

she was four years old just to get it taken care of and it turned out to be a phenomenal investment financially, but more phenomenal and education she received. , to share that that can work. you have to -- i just wanted to share that that can work, but have to instill that entrepreneurial spirit. host: what is she doing now? caller: three-quarters of the way toward her master's degree in education. full-time teacher and a working on the side. she is paying for her master's degree. because i honestly believe that she will probably inherit millions of dollars of that is not going to be a question but i want her to do everything for herself now, because the more she can be independent, the better off. host: will she be a teacher? caller: she is a teacher of right now. she is teaching while picking up the master's degree also from the university of virginia. host: the thing she will

continue to be a teacher? caller: i think shean do anything she wants to. she was the etor of for college paper, so she has a bright future as long as she keeps herself balanced. but that is what y try to do for your children, you try to keep them balanced and pass on an entrepreneurial spirit. i am not sur what she is going to do for the future. she was -- it is teaching now and her mother was a 39-year teacher. host: good morning, tiffany. caller: thank you for having me on. host: how old are you? caller: i am 28. --on't think it is necessary necessarily pretty to pay fo college out of ur pocket. there are a lot of resources that are out there. people don't seem to know they are out there. there are plenty of websites -- scholarships.com. myself, i am pursuing several

scholarships. i work part time. so far i have been able to pay my way through college. it is not necessarily a hard thing to do. you just have to work hard. host: the front page of "the washington times" this morning. it says many of the candidates running for senate seats on the public and side are vowing not to have emarks if they are elected. the front page of "the washington times." also in the papers this morning, it shows that those who are spending most of these midterm elections, which groups. the national republican congressional committee leads the pack, followed by american rovesroads, set up by karl and ed gillespie. you could see the list of who they are contributing to. it new york.

peter, on the line for parents. caller: do think it is very important to pay for college. but unfortunately, my care -- my parents, they came from italy many years ago. it was very difficult for them to pay for myself, so they went out for grants. it would be great if there were other grants for them and that time. but they were struggling, paying bills. i am fortunate enough i was able to get paid for at that time. host: massachusetts. sandra, parents line. caller: in my case, my son went to college on grants. he worked his fanny off. today he is in the service, and master sergeant in charge of men and women.

hes a teacher. in the fall, he will be teaching 500 men and women in pharmacy. i am very, very proud. he's got national honor society and presidential citations. the child that went well. thank you. we had nothi. he worked. thank you. host: a little bit mor about this event at the white house talking about two-year community colleges. it says the presiding over the summit is jill biden, wife of the vice-president. there'll be a competition to award $500 million to fund a community college and a career training initiative.

oklahoma city. nancy on our line for parents. it is paying for college a priority? caller: this is a grandparent. and as one of the other callers said, we are trying to instill an hour three grandchildren -- in our three grandchildren, a thirst for knowledge so they will be able to get into the college of their choice. we are putting aside as much as we are able to help them in the future. we als are lucky that we are part indian, being from oklahoma. and our indian tribe takes most of their income mon and gives it towards students going to college.

host: putin, texas. susan on the line for parents. caller: good morning. i wanted to cauti all of the parents that are watching this morning to be careful in their voting for their candidates who are running. our son is a medical resident, and he was in medical school during the six republican bush years. and the programs were so drastically cut back at my husband and i, even though he had been a good student in college, he had to -- we had to co-sign for all of the loans. most of the loans were predatory. limited loans during his medical experience. now our credit is damaged. to help but go to medical school, which we were happy to do.

the candidates are important. host: we will be talking about that. in about 10 minutes, debbie wasserman schultz, a democrat from florida, will join us on the program. she is the vice-deputy whip in the house and has a leadership role at the democratic national committee as well. we will be talking about campaign 2010 coming up. but first, here is a tweet. if you want to join our conversation, go to twitter.com /c-spanwj. caller: i was telling the died there at seek debt -- c-span that my daughter went to college at indiana state with a government grant for teaching. and my other daughter went to a junior unirsity for nursing

and they were both government grants. but in a way, our health care plan, them wanting to spend billions of dollars for health care, wouldn't it be kind of smart for people who have the 4.0 grade level to get grants and then work off what they are doing and use it as a pool for universal health care in this state? whatever state they come from -- and the university gets paid, to where it stimulates that economy in that state. and then they can simply go out into the private sector or stay on their roster and be part of an emergency health care for people who are a little lower. it is all uto the politicians, what nds tbe done. but i appreciate the help for my girls but as far as our health care plan, it would be better to spend the money and get it that

and stimulate the money instead of ling it. host: ok. we will leave it there. talking about whether or not paying for college is a priority. in other news, this is "the new york timesthis morning. excuse me, "the waington post ." u.s. transportation system is failing. it says that in a report released monday -- new york on the line for parents. good morning. caller: i going to college on

scholarships and grants. i would have never made it because my parents did not have any money at all. inact, they came from a welfare background and i was able to go to college and now i am self-sufficient and i am an advocate for college. host: i am going to cut off now because you need to turn the tevision down because otherwise there will be feedback. "the new york times" editorial is about the moratorium on drilling in the gulf cot.

westhampton, new jersey. , on our line for parents -- tom on our line for parents. caller: i wanted to make a comment about student loans. sallie mae used to be an affordable program to help finance colleges. now, sallie mae, for instance, with my daughter, she goes to the school where she got three- quarters of her school paid for with a scholarship because she is a good student. however, the $12,000 remaining went under sallie mae. the sallie mae, with interest at 13%, 14%, 15% of interest of the course of years she is in school means that the interest is more than a mortgage.

so, the cost and up being the monthly interest just on the loan out well over $200 a month just in interest. i think there should be a better way. when i went to college, sallie mawas like at 4% or 6%, not at this 13%, 14% interest. host: that was tom from westhampton, new jersey. "the new york times" yesterday writes about the supreme court's opening day. if you want to know what >> we are live now that the executive -- eisenhower executive office building for the first-ever community colleges summit hosted by the white house. we expect to hear comments by dr. jill biden. the vice president's wife on the screen now. this is live coverage on c-span. >> what we would like to do now

is i would like -- i would like you to hear, and i'm sure you would like to hear from two of the administration is driving forces in education -- our secretary of education and the secretary of labor. would you like to come up and give your reports? >> first off, a huge round of applause for dr. biden. [applause] it is a pretty remarkable day, and i had about a 90-minute speech. i will say three quick things. this is a historic day. we have never had this kind of attention at the white house nationally. i thank dr. baden -- biden. i think folks feel incensed.

there has never been greater spotlight, a greater sense of urgency, and a greater sense of opportunity. community colleges are absolutely essential to hitting the president's goal in leading the world in college graduates by 2020. we cannot get there without your readership and hard work. the urgency, the sense of importance, and the opportunity i cannot overemphasize. secondly, for all the success stories, we always have to be very candid, and at the end of the day, we have to get a lot better at what we do. about a quarter of younger students, older students -- we heard about an 82-year-old going back to school today, but at the end of the day, about a quarter of enrollees in community colleges graduate after three years, and we have to find a way

to drive that up significantly. there are real challenges. we had a great conversation this term. non-traditional student is probably the wrong term. the non-traditional is probably the new normal. the fundamental question is -- are our institutions set up to deal with 28-year-old's trying to raise children and better their lives? in some places we are and in some places, we are not doing enough. for the challenges we are facing and the need to get dramatically better at a very rapid rate at a time of declining resources is not always easy. for every challenge, we have example after example of success stories. our job is to better share this best practices. all those challenges are being followed somewhere in this country. what we have to do is take what is working. whether it is a will let folks know here is where we're struggling, the set of metrics we're using, how we know we are getting better, we think we can

do a much better job. as community colleges help families get back on their feet, we will help the country gets back -- get back on its feet. it is now my pleasure to introduce my partner in his work. secretary solis is doing an extraordinary job. first time ever $2 billion coming through her agency with a spotlight solely on community colleges, and that is coming out very soon. please give a warm round of applause. [applause] >> thank you. buenos tardes. good afternoon. i also wanted to do a shout out to dr. jill biden for convening this but also to our president for having the foresight to do this. it is great to be your among leaders like melinda gates.

i am a big believer in community colleges, and i know how a important a role they play in higher education. i have the privilege of years ago of serving for eight years on a local community college board, and let me tell you -- i learned quite a bit, and it is coming into play. i'm excited to see the enthusiasm, the thoughts and words that i heard from so many individuals in our own panel discussion about industry, the fact that we really have to reach out far beyond what we traditionally are used to doing, and it is about looking at the new now, the new non-traditional student, so to speak, and the new elements and crisis that confront so many of us. i think about the people who are unemployed. i think about the dislocated worker who is not just the 17- year-old looking for that first summer job, but for the 45 or 55-year-old individual having a

tough time. maybe they just completed a high-school education years ago, have never been before an interview because they have been employed for a long time, and now, they have to somehow get with the program and get some skills and confidence. having all those challenges ahead, we have to have good services available for them, so i know how important that is, and i'm excited that dr. biden mentioned earlier that through the recovery act reinvestment program, that we have amended the 2009 bill to allow for a trade adjustment assistance program to establish a community college training initiative, and this is a health care and education reconcile at signed by the president, which included $2 billion over four years, and it is a new initiative. it is going to be targeting those students that i talked a little bit about -- dislocated workers, those that may have

lost their jobs because of trade issues, but i think the important element here is that we are all going to strive to produce more people that have an experience that a community college. whether it is a one or two-year program, those are things we currently know we have to divide, and it is about capacity building. it is not just about acquiring more classroom space. it is about developing programs and curricula and making sure we can build out these programs, that they last longer than the funding does. we will be providing the first rollout over this next year that will start over $500 million. we will be announcing the grant at the end of the month, and we are going to also make sure we provide services to pr, the district of columbia, and we hope that these get rewards will number anywhere from $2.5 million for each state, so states can work together in a consortium with other community

colleges and hopefully partner with all the industry folks and things we have talked about today so that we have a more robust program. so i am very excited about that opportunity and know that we're going to have good partners here. i want to lastly say to you that one of the things i have come to learn in the last 18 months on the job -- people want to know where jobs are. people want to know if they are ready with their skills and if they are not in an appropriate place because their skills have to be improved upon, where can they go for help? we just launched a program through the department of labor called myskillsmyfuture.org. you can put in your future occupation, find out what skills are needed to upgrade, and find the nearest place where you can get the training and find out where the job site is. that is great. on the second day we announce the program, we have over 200

hits. i'm excited there are people out there that want to get more information, and i think we are in a perfect place to be able to make that happen. thank you so much, and i salute all of you being here and enjoy very much our panel discussion, so thank you. [applause] >> the secretary and i moderated the panel discussion between -- on community colleges and industry, and i just want to focus on two things that we discussed. we talk about what is working in those partnerships, and there is another -- number of things working very well. formal partnerships that exist that have reciprocity between the company and the community college are being really successful. partnerships where the cities and states are not only -- they are part of the coordination and development of the program, but they are also lending support,

particularly tuition support. programs or partnerships that have flexible delivery, whether it is the time of day that curricula is delivered, or the vehicle. whether it is at the workplace, the school, or online were using different types of technology. our group also felt was working in public/private partnerships is that there is a clear and accessible pathway. in other words, the career path for the individual is clear with the training they will be receiving or are receiving. partnerships that also include a printer ships and internships were very highly regarded and have been very successful. obviously, it is extremely important that the delivery recognizes that our work force that is often taking courses needs to have courses offered at a flexible time because oftentimes our students are not available at our regular nine to

five, if you will, but we also talked about the challenges and issues that partnerships and community colleges are facing and working together, and we heard about the issue of remediation. what a challenge is the 60% of adults in philadelphia cannot pass the literacy test to get placed into community college. 90% of the students in chicago need some form of remediation. these are the challenges that the community colleges are dealing with. community college leaders also talked about the need for dollars for capacity building so they are able to engage with corporations to deliver the kind of training and skills delivery that we were talking about earlier today. there is a complaint that each state has its own funding vehicle, and that makes it hard for a company to take a successful partnership with one community college and replicate it to others. there was much discussion also

about credit and how we streamline or recognized credit. it seems that the a.c.e. sometimes recognizes credit for apprenticeships but the community colleges do not, or it is unclear if one gets enough credit for technical training such that than a worker can begin to advance their education based upon a level of training that they have already received. finally, we talked about the perception of community colleges. there was a real feeling that community colleges are undervalued and that we need to do more to celebrate the great work that is being done by the community colleges. corporations talk about their number one biggest concern is talent, and when they look out of their work force, they realize what a large percentage of the work force is in the community college system for has come from the community college system, so this is the real opportunity as we see it, and it

is not all about money. many of the community college leaders said to us they would like more mind share of the business leaders in their community because they want to reinvent themselves to be more relevant to the various businesses in their community. they want to rethink how they deliver their product, so there is a real -- what was so encouraging is there is an absolutely positive attitude about working together, so thank you very much. [applause] >> good afternoon. i had the pleasure of co- moderating the panel on the importance of community colleges to veterans and military families, and we had a really rich discussion with some students, veterans, military spouses, experts in the field, community colleges and administrators, and the distinct

honor of our co-moderator been the chief of staff. it was a great conversation. i hope i did not leave out any of the critical ones, but we confirmed the important role community colleges play. the need to ensure that there is a transition, a system of support from the active duty in to education and that in the process of leaving the military, there is engagement with institutions of higher education. most notably, community colleges. in addition, we talked a lot about the services and supports that are necessary on campus. the president reference in her speech talking about forming groups on campus at a community

college, and the importance of having veteran to veterans of ford and also institutional support said that as students transition out, go to four-year colleges, or complete their degrees, these groups can sustain themselves. we also heard about the san diego district and the intensive comprehensive set of supports that are necessary to help veterans, so that led us to the discussion about what are the best practices in this space? while we were able to talk anecdotally about some notable and successful programs, we identified an important need of collecting data and performing analysis on that to understand what should be replicated. the most important recommendation the group came to was establishment of a process that the federal level to understand and analyze data and be in a position to help disseminate that to institutions through the military, and we talked about the part of education, the department of defense, and veterans administration coming together to support the work. admiral mollen -- mullen made a

very important point, which is that while we need to systematically collect data about best practices, we also know there are several things we can do better working that are very important. once again, we highlighted the veteran to veterans of ford, the importance of party placement on some campuses that veterans are given the support they needed, and obviously across the country, and that we need to examine how we are maximizing gi benefits. the one other thing, and penny just mentioned it -- it came up a lot in our discussion -- was the sigma -- stigma associated with community colleges. that is something that on all tryingeople talk about to grapple with. thank you.

[applause] with the department of education, and secretary duncan and i had the opportunity to join the discussion group. i have already apologized to the members of this group for the many worthwhile comments that i'm not going to be able to repeat because it was a terrific group. i hope no one will take this personally. one theme that came through very strongly with the fact that community college students are different from those in the past. most of them are what we used to consider non-traditional. 7 of 5% are working or have children of their own or are attending part time. they are not living on campus, and the need to pay careful attention to this population. someone did suggest that we start calling them 21st century students. when the vast majority of students attending our colleges

aren't non-traditional, the term may no longer have meaning. some of the things that were talked about in terms of being important for serving a population -- one is that time is the enemy. it takes a very long time, someone said -- in fact, it takes five years on average to earn an associate's degree. that is a long time for something to go wrong. people talk about the value of the credentials of people understood the reason they were working hard and by the light at the end of the tunnel was important. people also talked about professional development for community college instructors, which is something that is often overlooked and is particularly important. another top we spent a lot of time on was the need for the telemental education. people talk about the diverse backgrounds and skills that people bring to community colleges. some of them need touching off in a particular area even if they have just finished high school. some of them are adults who

need refreshes. some of them made a great deal of basic education or english as a second language. some of the things that have been identified as being promising in the area of education. there are a number of programs with technical and academic courses. those seem promising, particularly because they help students see the value of what they are learning and because they do de-stigmatize those glasses and help students see there are some important things in what they are running. another aspect was the use of technology, particularly technology integrated with traditional instruction, not technology on its own. on the whole, the tone of the conversation recognize that there are challenges that community colleges face, as some of the others didn't mention, offering a sense of hope that a lot of these challenges are being met in different places around the country, and the real question was how we

identify those solutions and learn from them. [applause] >> good afternoon. i am one of the members of the president's council of economic of visors and a longtime fan of community colleges. i had a chance to co-moderate the breakout session on financial aid. we had representatives from all levels, and that proved to be very interesting. first, we think about it from the individual side, and i think we can all recognize the many challenges. one of the great virtues of community colleges. tuition is much less costly than a four-year institution. we also know that the tuition costs is not the full cost of attendance. i see a lot of heads nodding. what also have to consider the fees students are paying but also the fact that many of them

are working but nonetheless, they have other bills to pay, etc. so there is the full cost of tuition, and i'm going to go ahead and go with the 21st century student. we considered that many of these issues are especially important for the 21st century student, and many of the students are not aware of financial aid opportunities. many of them are first- generation college students. we talked about the need to simplify the financial aid process, and it has also been -- we also talked about how important it has been -- one of the things the president did last year was notify financial aid offices that they could go back and reevaluate income for individuals that have been dislocated and how important that has been for families, both of infinite students whose spouses may have left their jobs or dependent students whose parents may have left their jobs. we've also talked about the challenge of financial aid.

i'm going to talk first about the individual student. the challenge that we had a little bit of solutions on was financially for the 21st century student, and i think one of the things for our consideration here at the federal government is whether we should be rethinking the work disincentive for eligibility for the pell grant, that four independent students, there is a big penalty for them to continue working. in addition, we were encouraged to consider ways of consolidating the many different forms of financial aid, especially the many different kinds of loans, and to somehow simplify the whole process. in addition, on the individual side, this is a little bit more on the institutional level, we were reminded that there are many different forms of financial aid, so we should be thinking not just in terms of monetary financial aid but in terms of child care services, transportation services, and

other family services, so all those support services are very important forms of financial aid as well, but we were also reminded as we were considering how expensive it is for the student, that the institutions have to consider their affordability as well, and institutions are right now in the perfect storm. on the one hand, it is a happy storm where enrollment has been increasing. on the other hand, we had at the state level decreases in public funding, so we have decreases in revenues, which had meant, especially in the financial aid office, cuts in terms of financial aid officers, and i see other heads nodding. as a result, we have financial aid officers who are overworked, overwhelmed. we heard a story of a financial aid officer who represents the state working on a sunday afternoon, get a call from a financial aid officer who just cannot take it anymore root ends up footing. this is a time when enrollments

have increased, that needs have increased, and yet, funding is cut back. just as we all thought we were in the debt of despair, we had a solution from the connecticut community college system, which has basically adopted a virtual financial aid office. it has two aspects they believe are the most important. one is when they work with the students, all of the inflammation is up on the web and is very accessible and is meant to have language which is accessible to the low-income students. students can fall of their financial aid process, and they know exactly where they are in the processing, how much they have got, how much they are eligible for. they have packaged their students as full-time students, so the students can see if they are full-time students how much they will be eligible for, and if they go halftime, they can see how much less they will get. this is important because students at this level do not really know what intensity they want to enroll for.

so the result has been financial applications are up 169%. awards have been of 250%. pell grant recipients are up 176%, and awards are of 400%, and all of this without an increase in financial aid offices and without having overwhelm financial aid offices either. they also point out when enrollments have gone up, full- time students have gone up 105%. we have a nice solution for what we think is a very systemic problem, and it was a wonderful conversation that i hope we will continue. thank you. [applause] >> i do not know if you can see me. i am under secretary for the department of education. we'll were fortunate to have --

we were fortunate to have albert ojeda -hour session the whole time, and he kicked off by telling us about his pathway, which guided the rest of the conversation from challenges to solutions, and what he said was that when he got to australia, he got into the mentor program and immediately connected into a learning community, which i thought was very instructive because that institution was using evidence that learning communities work. further, he took classes that transferred to the baccalaureate degree institution. he knew where he wanted to go. he reminded us that many students do not know where they want to go, which led to another set of challenges we wanted to discuss, and he concluded by telling us that the community college district has an arizona state university pathways program now that caps tuition for four years so students know

what the cost is going to be for tuition, and there were some other incentives for room and board and so on. so it is the kind of sample, i think, that is very instructive and guided the rest of our conversation. a big set of challenges, obviously, to the baccalaureate degree -- too many choices for students. this is taking the student- friendly perspective, a lot of inconsistency in the advice students get depending on who they talk to, lack of clarity about the credit our. many students are undecided, and there are disincentives for students that are undecided about their pathway. and when they think they will be able to transfer the units that they took, they found out that some institutions will accept them and others will not. we also know that the course numbering systems are buried across the country. finally, we had another student in our group that talk about the

fear of even filling out an application and how i do that and how i figure out where to go to get that done. there are lots of solutions to these, but bottom line, the college information is not easily understood and is not easily accessible to students, so we have a lot of work to do their that students reminded us about. this lack of clarity for students is a major challenge for us. inconsistent requirements, in a consistent advising, and the good news was we had a student that told us about college fish, which is a website free to any student in the country or prospective student that can look at institutions and give you the pathway where you can self guide. innovations like this we want to shine a spotlight on. we also talked about lack of institutional consistency and a lot of concern about

affordability and capacity. how hard work easy it is to get the faculty from the four-year institutions and two-year institutions together to work it out, and pat reminded us that this is a job where states can provide some leadership. there was a discussion around whether we release of one of ways to do this kind of work, should it be part of what state policy needs to get down, but how to get from a two-year to four-year institution is a matter of state policy, and the federal government can support those in variety of ways. i talked about the inoculated pathways. there were many examples from many people in our session about states that have clearly articulated hathaway's to the baccalaureate degree from two- year schools. another challenge that came up was how do we create the pathways from career technical programs, vocational schools, training programs to the

baccalaureate pathways? that is again a challenge for us. finally, a big solution -- use what works. we know many things that work. i think i mentioned that at the beginning. there are lots of innovations across the country that are tried and true. i think the conn one is a good one on we need institutionalize those that states can learn from and institutions can do more of. i want to thank all the members of our group for a very lively conversation. and we have a lot more to do. thanks so much. [applause] >> good evening, everyone. i and the director of the domestic policy council and i have the pleasure of co moderating a session with melinda gates. our session was called community

colleges in the 21st century. one of the interesting comments made that served as a backdrop for our discussion was community colleges recognize they are an important part of higher education, but at the same time to recognize that they play a distinct role in higher education in thinking about the challenges and solutions given that particular backdrop. when we talk about challenges, there was a broad grouping that we prefer to -- referred to as culture. that is something we came back to several times and our conversation. one of the first things that we talked about was -- backing up for a second, this is a conversation about recent culture and the challenges to culture as community colleges confront some of the 21st century issues facing them. one of the issues was the role of alumni and the fact that many community colleges, not all, but many of them have not

significantly kept in contact with their alumni. for reasons some of them financial, building a financial base, but also recognizing that alumni over time will have additional training needs and that community colleges can provide additional services to alumni, building and sustaining that network being important. if we also talked about the importance of deploying technology and the challenges that surround that and the use of data that would allow us to track alumni, track transfer of credits, and that be one of the challenges facing community colleges. we talked about their role faculty as well. the important role that full- time faculty obviously plays but also the role that at jumps play on a community college campus. -- adjuncts play on a community college campus, as they're trying to take on new innovations. we talked about faculty are up

for anything. very flexible, but we have to be practical and realistic about providing important support and incentivizing them. and one of the things that many people have touched on is the issue of protection, one of the biggest challenges. the second challenge that we talked about and others have touched on it this afternoon as well as financial challenges. for schools and students and in particular given the population that community colleges are often serving, very proudly serving, when we talk about mothers and single parents, all whole range of other issues that put downward pressures on students and downward financial pressures on students, not to mention the fact that the minute colleges are doing all locked without a lot of resources.

-- a whole lot without a lot of resources. one solution that almost everyone here has touched on is the important role that technology plays. there's several different components of that. we talked about the transformative use of technology to build on competency and the shift in thinking not just from sea to time, but to competency. any important way that technology can help us solve the problem. a sensibility is one issue that many talk about. -- accessibility is one issue that many talk about, and increasing the coursed load available to students. student transfer of credits, technology can play and borden role there. -- an important role there.

letting the move along, but when they get up. bank or the need more instruction and more training, the role that technology can play there. also, we mentioned the collection of data and that challenge, technology playing an important role in the solution, developing best practices for education. and also supporting faculty -- as many faculty have many number of courses, five courses that they have to teach, and that can be a burden that they accept willingly, but it prevents a lot of people from playing the expanded role as mentor, and technology can play an important role in lifting a little bit of that faculty -- lifting that. and this is something that both and pennysubleolis mentioned earlier, the partnerships that were

discussed. the importance of learning within contexts and that being an important variable for sustaining students. and much more enjoyable and practical experience for students. they feel like they are moving down the road that they started in moving toward the goals that they set out for themselves at the beginning of the process. and i would just conclude by saying -- and this is something again that many people have touched on -- when you speak, if you shudder when someone says something that you are written down, but this is reassuring -- we have a great sense of what we need to do. and at this point, it is about dissemination of thank you very much. [applause] >> so i would like to thank you all for joining us today on this national conversation on community colleges.

i would like to thank admiral mullen who had to leave. i like to thank everyone on stage. , all the cabinet secretaries, and thank you for being here. to the press, a special thanks for getting a word about how great community colleges really are. i mentioned that homework and you have homework to you go back to your communities and businesses and schools and start the conversation again. talk about what you have learned today. this is our moment in history to make a difference, so let's grab that opportunity. i have one more quick announcement. going forward, we have the federal grants that are scheduled to begin this year. we have the skills for america business partnerships. we have the completion grants and awards. and then arne will have a

virtual community college summit next year, right? i know you are all tired, and i have one more announcement. many of you know my husband, joe biden. he has always supported me. i could not have this career if it were not for him. he has always supported education. he has always supported educators. i told him and he knows what i've done -- we are having a reception at the blair house. you have heard about this for days and days a lot like you to come over and say hello. we hope that we see you all there. thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> one bit of housekeeping. [unintelligible]

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oeas [inaudible] >> we have got more campaign 2010 campaign programming coming up. we wish to you today is open "

washington journal" session with debbie wasserman schultz. later, debates from new hampshire and connecticut. bob woodward's latest book looks at the obama administration. the author of "obama's wars if" will talk about his book and take about phone calls. "washington journal" is live every day at 7:00 a.m. eastern. mr. woodward's session will begin at 8:30 a.m. eastern europe and c-span. >> every weekend on c-span3, experience american history tv, starting at saturday at 8:00 a.m. eastern. telling the american stores. here historic speeches by national leaders and eyewitness accounts of events that shaped our nation. this is historical sites and college campuses, talk to professor is delving into

america's past. american history weekend, all weekend, every weekend. c-span3. >> the c-span networks -- providing coverage of politics, public affairs, nonfiction books, and american history. it is all available to you on television, radio, online, and on social networking sites. view our content anytime at the c-span video library. we take you on the road with our digital content bus. it is washington your way. the c-span networks -- now available in more than 100 million homes, created by cable, provided as a public service. >> according to the associated press, about 8 million people remain homeless in pakistan following the recent floods in that country guess today a panel discussion on relief efforts there with remarks by tough pakistan the ambassador to the u.s. other officials included officials from the american red

cross. this is about 90 minutes. >> the institute is an independent nonpartisan organization created and funded by congress, dedicated to advancing and absorbing violent international conflict. in continue its mission, we operate under the rubric save, ask, teach, and train. we have been working in pakistan of a lesser or years. our pakistan program seeks to achieve three complementary goals. first, strengthening capacity to

mitigate conflicts. second, to promote education and civil society. third, to improve mutual understanding between the united states and pakistan. it is against this background that we have convened today's event. pakistan has been hit by the worst natural disaster in its history. the flood this summer has emerged one-fifth of pakistan underwater and has affected millions of people. the flooding is estimated to cost several billion dollars in damages, and some say an unprecedented appeal by the united nations. why the united states is by far the largest bilateral donor to these efforts, the overall international response has been equal. this disaster is in the wake of

its economic crisis and continuing security challenges. it is clear that pakistan cannot get through this difficultly on its own. it will need a major preconstruction program and the continued support of the international community. we're fortunate to have 3 of standing analyst with us this afternoon. i will introduce them in the orchid which they will speak. our first speaker -- in the order in which they will speak. our first feature -- speaker is% haqqani, pakistan's ambassador to the united states. he has had a distinguished career in diplomacy, academia, and journalism. it is the author of a highly regarded 2000 book, "pakistan --

between moscow and military." . he will -- "pakistan -- between mosque and military." . our second speaker has been engaged in international humanitarian work for over 25 years. he is just returned from a monitoring visit from pakistan. mexico has been working for roper -- where he has been working for over two decades. our final panelists is mark preslan. he is working with the american red cross. is that half of his professional career living and working in asia. he will discuss the efforts of

the american red cross in pakistan, and the opportunities and challenges in making the response successful. ambassador haqqani will speak for 30 minutes, randy martin and mark preslan will speak for 10 minutes each, to be followed by a question and answer period. ambassador, if you have the floor. >> thank you very much, mr. williams. for the convenience of everyone, i thought that i would make a power point presentation here. i will begin right here. i do not know we have not ingested it right to get started. but anyway, i was expecting is

that batus out what happened. if, one -- if someone can assist me on getting this on to the big screen on both sides. sorry. ok, great, good. thanks. let me begin by saying that the pakistan flag -- flood is a major catastrophe that has not been fully understood, because of the way it has been reported. based on that, but me start my presentation with giving you an idea of the scale of the catastrophe. the parcheesi severely affected and moderately affected are in red and in pink. you'll notice that this cup -- the red covers the significant part of the inhabited part of

pakistan. there are many images here that tell you about the scale of the tragedy. nothing will grab your attention more than when i come to the exact numbers and when you realize that 20% of pakistan is under water, which is actually the area the size of italy. 20 million people have been affected. the number of people who have been affected are more than the number people that were affected by the tragedy of the tsunami, and pakistan the earthquake of 2005 put together. it is the worst natural disaster in pakistan's history in terms of the population affected, more than 20 million. 150,000 square kilometers, affecting 78 of the country's

141 districts. in terms of human suffering, yeah. 1800 people dead. -- we have more than 1800 people dead. perhaps that is one of the reasons was this disaster has not receive the kind of attention that the earlier tragedies. . it seems that for these days for a tragedy to get attention, that has to be large number of fatalities. in this case, 1800 dead in comparison to the other tragedies, it is a lot less. more than 2900 injured, more than 3 million children under five years had been affected. 6000 affected mothers. and there has been so far in the ballet, with an 6 million diseases, affected malaria, and

diarrhea. disease fears are fears that are significant, but their air important pieces of good news. the fact that the government was able to organize a large-scale evacuation after the initial impact of the flood, made sure that there were fewer fatalities. the lower casualty's reflect a successful evacuations strategy. and the second, we while diseases have been identified in many cases their arrest and no major outbreak of an epidemic. a cholera epidemic was feared. diarrhea when it came was limited and restricted. many were mobilized by the government. the damage to the infrastructure, roads, rails,

bridges, schools " -- more than 12,000 schools of been damaged. more than 500 facilities at a 2009 hundred have been damaged or destroyed. it is important to understand the magnitude of the infrastructure disaster. and the district. swat -- in the district of swat, the oldest was built over 80 years. that was all washed away in the course of the flood. and they have to be rebuilt. just to give you a further idea, this is a graphic representation. i wish it was bigger and could be seen much more easily by the people in the back room, but they give you some idea of the worst affected province. that is in purple.

and in the northwest frontier province of pakistan, which is in marin here. the number of houses damaged in terms of percentages. also the number people affected in punjab are much larger. there is your house is affected there, and yes, more people because the population density. the scale of this disaster is so large, so many people and so many places and so much need, and pakistan is in a slow-motion tsunami. make no mistake, this is a global disaster and a global challenge. when angelina jolie visited, she said it was a social catastrophe.

the population affected is greater than the tsunami, the pakistan earthquake of 2005, and haiti earthquake combined. this is just a comparative statement of the various disaster. the purpose is to give you an idea of of the relative scale of the disasters. floods have affected 20 million people. the pakistan earthquake affected 3.5 million people. katrina affected by hundred thousand people. the tsunami affected 2.2 million people. in terms of the damage to households, only those with very good eyesight can see. even there, you will note that

the number of households that had been affected and houses damage is far greater than that of the other disasters. this is a comparative chart showing new in terms of the number of the people affected. the pakistan flood far outweighs the nimble of people affected by the other tragedies. the area affected design. you'll notice that the pakistan flood on the left as far fewer fatalities than haiti earthquake in the indian ocean tsunami. that is the explanation for why probably the world has been waking up to this a little slowly. the response of the international communities to various disasters -- in the case of the pakistan plaid, $3.20 per

committed in case of the pakistan the earthquake. within 10 days of the crisis, $70 per person had already been committed. in me and mark -- myanmar, $40 per person had been committed in the first five days. if you notice, even compared to the cyclone, the commitment per person who had been affected, it is not that the tragedy is any less for either, but in terms of the international commitment, it is far less this time and only $3.20 per affected person has been committed by the international community in the case of the flood. similarly, a much more graphic representation.

this is the lowest for the pakistan blood compared to the earthquake and the cyclone and haiti earthquake. it is something that is particularly not seen as you move into the early stages and go into rehabilitation and reconstruction, another very extensive proposition. the and not a states is so far been the most generous and a national donor. the people of pakistan are grateful for the international assistance from the united states. before we go there -- let me say that the u.s. was the first and in terms of committing resources as well as committing helicopters of the united states military that could move again and were helpful in the rescue and relief phase, but the rest

of the international community has been slow to move. and even in the united states, but one thing that is really lacking behind his direct charitable donation. in the case of the of the tragedies, the corporate sector and private individuals of the united states or far more generous. i have an idea of why that may have happened. i'll come to that later on in my presentation and why this particular tragedy received less attention and less from the generous people of the united states. the government of pakistan's response, which has been criticized a lot in the media, needs to be examined methodically. first of all, when the floods for started in the northwest of pakistan, they were a surprise. the last big flood in the bases was in 1929. the water flow was six times

larger than the 1929 flood. most major floods in this basin have the flooding of the eastern tributaries. almost all of pakistan, meteorological resources, flood prediction resources, are all geared toward the eastern tributaries that flow. in this particular case, the heavy rains in afghanistan and in the northwest, and the flooding came from the western tributaries. the prediction mechanism, the flood control mechanism,

historical base, were not there to respond to this particular situation. and in small towns and small villages, the government service is usually small. a police officer, a local administrator -- that is the usual presence. those people have also been affected by the flood. by design, the federal government mobilized resources and quite a lot of people have pointed to the military that was the first to respond in many cases. that is usually the case in pakistan and in many countries that the military is an institution that is used for dealing with the disasters of this magnitude. after all, 2 million members of parliament -- too many members of parliament do not have helicopters. it has to be the military is helicopters are deployed -- whose helicopters are deployed.

that is why the military took control. the number of relief camps created is about 5392, covering the western half of the country, depending on the area and the number of people affected. it probably took awhile to get started, but i think that now the government has covered the entire population with the relief camps. there's several mechanisms dealing with the situation, the relief effort. the international disaster management of party. it delegates authority. it produces daily situation reports of the status health in the cans. and is the main coordinator of the relief effort. it is also created an operation center, and the distribution

network. and there is a national oversight management council that exercises oversight, which is basically -- pakistan's politics -- it is very simple to accuse people of incompetence and corruption. it was a born-have an oversight mechanism that look beyond the politics and was able to the level of comfort to both government and private donors allocating for the well-being. now word about why this particular crisis has not received the attention it should have, why people have been reluctant to meet the competition -- contributions that they did in the spirit of charity and humanitarian giving in the case of the earthquake of 2005 and the haiti earthquake

and the tsunami. one explanation can be found and how the international media has covered the flood. hear some of the themes of the media coverage. most media coverage, and i'll give you numbers in a moment to show you you this is an empirically proven statement, most of that government focused on the political dimensions of a flood, government incompetents, whether the president was in the country at the time of the flutter not, the response to the flood, will the military take advantage of the flood, will the government survived the flood -- etc., instead of the human dimension of the tragedy. 32 people still on the average newspaper readers do not know the scale of the disaster as i've explained it. they have been more concerned about military taking over. noaa did a story on how many

cans to the militants actually established. it would become of is that compared to the 5300 camps of the government, the nine camps of the militants are not comparing. they did stories about jihadist groups showing up with relief efforts. the other team was the government's insensitivity to the plight of people. here are the headlines. pakistan the floods could further hurt unstable nation as military focuses on aid. it is not that human beings are suffering, it's instability, military dimension, and the politics of it. it focused on fighting terror. slow pakistan response.

pakistan floods -- aids will not go to extremists. pakistan seeking to exploit the -- exploit flood chaos. world increases flood ed, extremist benefit from crisis. and in the estimates which i assured you in the good old days when you had to set up headlines in type, they run the store is so frequently. as pakistan heading for coup? they run that every few months. they can put it in. especially a newspaper in the united states has the tendency to do that with alarming regularity over the last two years. again, it is pakistan

instability putting u.s. army on edge. nothing about the 600,000 pregnant and lactating women who are having to give birth or bring up children or infants in makeshift tented villages. it is not about the children whose immunizations are going to be jeopardized as a result of this. it is not about the poor whose homes have been washed away. it is not about infrastructure damage, but only the politics. and i am not saying that in the case of the human tragedy, the politics is not relevant. it is, but that is not the only thing and i consider shakings of heads in the acknowledgement of that fact, that that is correct. it is not correct just a focus on the politics of this human tragedy of this magnitude.

-- just to focus on the politics of this human tragedy of this magnitude. we did a comparison of the earthquake and floods, comparing 80 and pakistan. this is actually from the brookings institution. within the first 10 days, the earthquake in haiti broad 300,000 stories in the print and broadcast media. in the case of the past and flood, their only 730 print stories. and as i pointed out, that focused more on the politics and not the humanitarian crisis. let me introduce an engine -- a reality check here. a study about hearts and minds in the pakistan earthquake in 2005. i introduce it because these is

for people worried about the media coverage. one thing you learn when you're my age and been around the block, you read it somewhere. it is important to compare that things have been said before. in the case of the 2005 earthquake, the same things are being said. the militants are arrived first aid. eigh the international donors were worried about their money being used for the purposes a sign. one of the particular rich political consequences of the earthquake? and it's interesting timing. the front-line charities did little to help despite the public good will generated. when they went in and conducted -- they had 70 researchers going to 28,000 households, took 126

random selected villages, and asked to help -- who came to help you after the earthquake. it is not just a daily news story now. it is about people's lives. we ask them, what you remember most? it came your help? it turns out that more than 60 people living close to the fall line said europeans and americans, and other organizations, and the various international ngos that showed up to help. only 5% said they had received any assistance from the various islamic charities. 95 percent -- 95% did not have any help from the islamic charities, even though the overwhelming coverage of the earthquake went to that.

closer to the fall line, 80% showed them that the army shut up to help them. 40% reported assistance from farmers in the united nations. unfortunately there is a tendency to suspend disbelief when it comes to pakistan. people always believe that there is a coup in the works. they're ready to believe the worst about pakistan. the fact of the matter is, we have seen the suffering and are suffering has to be seen outside the negative political contexts. pakistani pain is not enough to make it to the front pages of the united states. take you all very much.

-- bank you all very much. -- thank you all very much. >> i want to give the floor now on to randy martin. >> good afternoon. the key for the invitation. it is a real pleasure to sit on such an esteemed panel. it has been a long time since i have been engaged in this and i live there for 20 years ago. i have some near and dear friends from those days. this most recent visit back to pakistan has been my first trip back since, and it has been touching. i do not have a deep background of a lot of people have here and pakistan, but i have a warm place in my heart, and it is

very concerning to see pakistan faces a challenge. i want to talk a little bit about the ngo perspective on this crisis. i am not a pakistan expert. of developmental organization. we focus on the intersection between government and business and the civil society and where they interact. that is where we find the foundation pieces for development. we've been in pakistan for nearly 25 years, working primarily in development work. but we of also responded to emergencies, and like many organizations, we view of emergencies as opportunities for change in doing something different. we view the situation now in pakistan with that optimism, if

you will, that this is the time to do things differently. we responded to the earthquake in 2005, the cyclone in 2008, and in 2009, we responded to the conflict -- the displacement in the swat valley. this, as the ambassador pointed out, dorks all of that. this is enough to break many countries. i think the thing that has been remarkable to me, having lived in pakistan and also watched mercy corps respond to these emergencies, is that pakistan has an incredible resilience. it has the ability to rebound. it has this robust professional class that has enacted -- with an -- with an active economy. there are a lot of things that are encouraging their that we see being engaged in this

response. again, though, this is a huge crisis and it will be very challenging. i came back from this visit and realize some of the challenges are even bigger than i have are originally thought. a lot of the data has been shown and there is no need for me to go over that again. 20 million people affected is really huge. 2 million homes destroyed is massive. 12 million people are in humanitarian assistance and 10 million people needing food -- this is 20% land under water. this is a huge crisis. i want to talk a little bit about how it plays out in different parts of the country because it is not all the same. mercy corps is working in two areas of the country, very different from each other. but the problems are and what the challenges are that we face

-- we're working in the swap of bowling -- swat valley, and in the area of baluchistan. they're very different economically. the swat valley in the north is a very deep valley. the flood hit there like a flash flood. it knocked out massive amounts of infrastructure. many bridges, a municipal water systems -- these kinds of things. the floodwaters have proceeded very quickly and there have been a considerable amount of repatriation and return of the displaced already. the flooding is by and large over there and people are already starting to recover their. . doing cash relief work programs there which is a recovery type of program, not relief. there are ominous threats, in

the northern parts of the swat valid. there's a need for shelter very quickly. the other part of the swat is the security element of that. the government is fighting an insurgency there. a year-and-a-half ago, well over 3 million people were displaced by the conflict there. when the flood hit, there were still a million people displaced from that conflict. this emergency on top of that emergency has created two layers of crisis. the political and security nature makes it difficult for ngos to find space to operate. it is very difficult for us to operate with neutrality, to maintain our independence, to be seen as neutral factors.

the ngo community in pakistan has suffered some very tragic losses in the last couple of years. much of that is related to the perceptions people have. we are perceived as political agents in the broader struggle going on, particularly in that part of pakistan. going into the future, it is hard sometimes to see how ngos will be able to participate fully in the reconstruction in swat valley and other parts of the northwest. the other province is very different in dynamic. it is not this narrow valley. it is a very broad, flat plain that stretches for miles and miles. the flow of the in this is controlled by one of the most extensive. -- of the indus is controlled by

one of the most extensive irrigation systems and the world. ironically, it spread the floodwaters far and wide and cause that image that we solve southern pakistan, these miles and miles of flood of land, flooded by the irrigation system. the other thing about that is that the irrigation system walleyed their -- while i was there, they were still breaches in the dikes that hold in these waters. there are new areas being flooded even that late after the initial dilution of water from the north. . delu -- the initial deluge of water from the north.

75% of those impacted are in the south. who haveeen others visited there, saying it was the worst crisis that they have seen. this problem is a massive flood disaster, which is very impressive to see, indeed. the troubling news i found during my visit, i think that we were assuming that the floodwaters would rescind rather quickly and we would be able to help people repatriate and return to begin reestablishing their houses and to get their feet in the ground for the november winter wheat crop. what i discovered to my dismay, and it is becoming more and more evident watching the situation, is that the flood waters are not rescinding very quickly. the estimates we heard from

local officials is as much as 80% of the land in the southern part of pakistan was going to remain either waterlog for flooded well into the planting season which will preclude the planting of " winter wheat crop. the impact of that is one to be enormous. -- is going to be enormous. it means there is going to be a protracted emergency phase. we're. have to provide temporary relief -- we are going to have to provide temporary and will lead to help people return to their homes. we're going to have to maintain the food pipeline throughout the winter, rather than investing the same resources to get planting going again. to see the impact of all those farmworkers who would

normally be cultivating the lands right now, instead going into the labor market. we are already seeing the value of labor plummet. which will have an impact not only on those it displaced but those not displaced, who had not yet been affected by the floods. they will be affected by that. see 1.2 million people that have not received shelter assistance. we will have to provide them with temporary shelter rather than working with them. transitioning -- working with them to reestablish their homes. this crisis is going to have very much of monumental impact on the relief situation that we face going forward.

i want to talk about the importance, nevertheless, of shifting away from traditional relieved and handing things out, which is basically what we're doing right now and going toward more market-oriented relief. this is imperative in the coming weeks to get away from importing and distributing massive quantities of stuff, and instead working on market-based intervention programs which will help get people engage in the cleanup, which will be very important, putting money into people's mark -- pockets so that they can go to the local markets and keep the local economy going. we need to shift. quickly. i am very encouraged by the meetings i have had with the provincial disaster management of authority, the government of authority coordinating the

response. they are very confused by this kind of imports -- induced -- enthused by this kind of approach. it is very important that the ngos and the government work quickly together to monitor the value of labor in markets, to make sure we're paying a consistent amount that does not damage the local economy, but in fact props it up. it will require a lot of coordination from us. i think related to that, is the overall theme that as we shift from handing things out to more of a recovery approach, to working, if it is very important that ngo's work to support the capacity of the government to support the initiatives of the government, and to a power as

best we can to pursue its reconstruction objective. this is sometimes a challenge for ngos that like to work on their own. we sometimes have trouble coordinating with each other. i want us to begin to work closely more -- more closely together. the final point i am going to make, it is a comment to the rhetoric that we often hear coming from our own community that you should never wasted could crisis, that we need to build back better. this presents some special challenges. just to rebuild back to the way it was is not very compelling to me. there is endemic poverty. there is a system feudal land ownership there which is made poverty endemic to that area for many generations.

this is a great opportunity to rethink that, a great opportunity to look again for land reform, a great opportunity to look at ways we can use micro enterprise, for example, to break the cycle of farmers having to borrow from the landlords, to buy seed and never being able to pay them back. it is a great opportunity to rethink their relationship between farmers and landowners. i implore my colleagues in government to create an environment that allows that to happen. and i implore my colleagues in the ngo community to help think of creative ways to support that coming about. so in conclusion, i think you can see there are many different ways that this emergency is playing out. in the north, the idp's have already started returning.

it will be difficult for ngos to engage their because of the political and security situation. in the south, it looks like a prolonged situation where relief will be continued to be necessary for parts of the community while other parts begin to move closer to their homes. i think it will be a long and challenging struggle for us. and finally, there needs to be away, on more creative way of finding a more durable solution for the people of the region. thank you very much. >> thank you, randy martin. we will move on to martin -- mark preslan. >> i am not sure if it is viewable are not. -- or not. i'm going to talk about three

things. tapping into many of the things already brought up. first, to give you the red cross movement response to the emergency. of the about the challenges that we have encountered and are still encountering. and third, one of those challenges which is the lukewarm donor response which has been mentioned. i have my theories about that which i will expound on. first of all, the ambassador has painted a picture of the gravity and the scope and scale of this disaster which i will not repeat, although -- the scale is indeed -- it is hard to see the colors in this slide.

is the amount of the country which is affected. it is hard to take in, really. talking about the red cross response, i need to step back and explain how the red cross works internationally. there are three components of the red cross movement. the national societies, the pakistan red cross is another, and then there's the international federation of red cross societies to which we all along. and there's the international red cross based in geneva, which works primarily in conflict situations. when a large disaster happens in a country, it is that countries national red cross and red crescent organizations to ask for