does it have kinks the need to be worked out? absolutely. but overall it is a sound concept. on the other hand, as a former infantry officer, i am a quick to defend that program but also point out the programs that have to be cut. >> yes and no questions. should >> would you vote for the dream act to allow people. italy to go into the military? >> yes -- to allow people who came here illegally to go into the military? >> i would not be instituting the death tax. >> would you pledge not to take a pay raise in congress? say there are automatic raises?

>> i have given my cost of living increase to charity. i would do the same as a member of congress. >> the last time he ran -- he said he was not going to took a car and yet he took a car. >> it is on my list. there are only about 20 seconds left. wall street reform, leave it alone or increase it? >> i would leave it as is and see where we are in a year. >> do you believe your opponent is an ethical man? >> yes. >> our discussion with pat meehan and bryan lentz continues in a moment. >> you are watching nbc 10. you are watching nbc 10. >> we continue with bryan lentz and pat meehan.

mr. lentz served in the infantry in iraq. thank you for being here. let's talk about stuff you said. you have said pat meehan has never prosecuted a case. are you saying one has to have served in the military to qualify for office? >> no, but it says something about your career. they got the jobs through politics. >> but by that standard sonia sotomayor would not be on the supreme court. >> the got his jobs through politics. he has been in politics for 30 years. i have led soldiers may be prosecuted cases for six years. i have been a legislature -- i

have been a legislator. >> i am a prosecutor. i have had an opportunity to make a difference. i am the one who has been leading the offices. i got elected twice by the people. to world's attention came the office. we got the conviction went -- when a rich guys were not going to jail. i have proved myself. using resources to make a difference in people's lives, directing prosecutors liked bryan lentz was. doing things that changed from domestic violence to predatory lending, changed people's lives. >> back in june you went to the state capital and said his campaign benefited those.

he has not been accused of any wrongdoing whatsoever. he has not done anything like that, and has said he will -- he was aware of those higher up who said we have some people to work on your campaign. you go there and say this. was it fair to take him with that? >> bryan said he was responsible for those underneath him. there were people who went to jail for using those employees who work on those campaigns. there were over 30 that were down there. it was a legitimate question to ask. >> what he ought to do is apologize for going to the capital and saying it was a crime scene, implying i was involved in criminal activity. go watch the video tape of the

press conference and see he had no answers for the accusations. he is a politician, but that's what they do. i have been in politics for four years. i have been a legislator. i want to go to washington to solve problems, not engage in the politics. >> he is a defender of what is going on in harrisburg. he had an opportunity to stand up and take on the corruption, like i took on corruption. >> the head of the election

euro i prosecuted for the same things brian has brought up. >> you said he would not take a car. i don't think he did in his first term. per diems, you said you would not take them and you are. your response. >> there is a practice still ongoing of legislators who go there five days a week. the legislator who is a worker hepat meehan's campaign, would just signed in. i have one of the lowest per diem collections. people are less interested in how i get to harrisburg. >> he is saying that now, but

when he was running he said something different. he said i will not take the per diem. look at the record of what he said and what he actually did. >> politician slangs mud. i said i will not go there to just get the per diem. >> you are watching nbc 10. you are watching nbc 10. >> we have a republican pat meehan and meehanb. -- and pat meehan. would you raise the payroll tax? >> it has to be one of the options. >> social security is solvent through 2034.

is it a red herring to panic about it? >> we have to get our economy going again. we have to generate more revenue by having a prosperous economy. >> i have been talking about how to preserve this. >> would you repeal obamacare. >> no. >> we are out of time. >> i want to thank you for the chance to be here. i want to fight for the people of the seventh congressional district. i have done that in the past. i want to look at who will be the person who they can trust, who will be an independent fighter for them. i will put people back to work and make sure the next generation has confidence in the brilliance of america. >> i think people should look at this campaign and ask themselves who they want representing themselves. i have experience looking out

for people as a platoon leader in the army, as leading soldiers overseas and a legislator. i know what it means to stand up for people. i will do that if they send me to washington. pat and i have been invited to a town hall. i want to ask pat if he will show up at that town hall. >> we will have to leave it there. thank you both. my guests have been bryan lentz, pat meehan, and james schneller on the ballot in the november 2 election. thanks for joining us. join us next sunday october 10. >> our 2010 campaign coverage

continues tomorrow night with governor candidate debates in ohio, nevada and georgia. president obama appears at a political rally for martin o'malley. live coverage begins at 8:00 p.m. on c-span. you can learn more by visiting our politics website where you will find campaign debates and campaign ad videos. it is all at c-span.org. coming up next, tonight's debate between candidates for delaware's house seat. later, an update on this year's congressional races -- congressional races with bob cusack. >> c-span3 takes a trip to

richmond, virginia for a civil war show. also from the national archives, songs that uplifted soldiers' spirits. and how harry truman's containment policy resulted in decades between the u.s. and soviet union. all weekend, every weekend on c- span3. candidates for delaware's at large house seat participated in debates on the campus of the university in delaware. this is an open seat after mike castle ran unsuccessfully for the u.s. senate. the university of delaware's center for political communications organized the debate and released a national poll that showed john carney leading glen. this is an hour and a half.

>> good evening. on behalf of delaware first and the university of delaware, welcome to tonight's debate featuring the candidates for the u.s. representative seats. we appreciate the financial support of the american cancer society action network. we also appreciate those who have gathered here with us on the campus of the university of delaware. tonight's debate is divided into two parts. following the opening statement from each of our candidates i

will be posing questions. responses are limited to two minutes with a one minute rebuttal. we will turn to these burdens at the university of delaware for their questions -- students at the university. each candidate will also have two minutes for a closing statement. our live studio audience understands there will be no applause during tonight's debate. now to introduce our candidates we are joined by john carney. and also republican glen urquhart. it is a pleasure to be here. we held a coin toss to determine our order for this evening. it was determined that we begin with glen urquhart who will have our first opening statement.

>> thank you organizers and the university of delaware who made this debate possible. i am glen urquhart. heart is the second part of my name. it breaks my heart when i see so many out of jobs, particularly when -- career politicians who don't understand how a business creates jobs. i am a great grandson of an indentured servant. i have been blessed to live the american dream. i have begun a business with nothing and we have been blessed to create jobs for other people. i am concerned that my wife angela -- we have five children and are concerned about their future and students at the university of delaware who are afraid they won't get jobs. i am a proven jobs creator. i know how we can create jobs.

we can do it the way kennedy did with tax cuts. we added 17 million new jobs. recently canada has added jobs and reduced unemployment by 20% by cutting taxes. we can do that in america as well. my opponent is a career politician. i ask you to send me to washington. i have stood up to my own party and i have one. if you want a proven jobs creator, i asked you to go to my website.

>> your opening statement. >> i want to thank the university of delaware, american cancer society for hosting this debate and for all of you who are coming out. it does not seem long ago been i was here working on my master's degree in public administration. i was delighted to hear this morning a former professor at the university was awarded the nobel prize in chemistry for his research. that is a tribute for this university. i am running for congress because we need strong leaders to address the serious challenges we face as a nation. i spent the last year traveling up and down our state talking

about the challenges people face. people are struggling. thousands are out of work. last year 6000 delaware families faced foreclosure on their homes. in these difficult times, representatives have let us down. we need new leaders that will put progress over politics. people are frustrated with what they see going on in washington. my opponent wants to go to washington and just say no to every proposal. he wants to take as back to the failed policies of the past. he wants to repeal health care reform and roll back the new regulations on wall street. we need a leader with real ideas about creating jobs, strengthening our economy and

getting our country back on track. >> let's begin with our questions. we will begin with an issue that is re, blue, white, but is all about party politics. it is all about the tea party factor. you identify yourself as a tea party candidate. what does that mean? >> i identify myself as one of the billions of americans concerned about government debt destroying jobs and destroying the american dream. i am excited there are millions of americans reading the constitution who understand limited government means unlimited opportunity, who understands that government has gotten too big. we have over $ 1 trillion sitting on the sidelines afraid

to invest. it means we are not producing more jobs. there is a crisis of confidence. we can do better than that. we can do that by creating incentives. you cannot say you love jobs but act like you have eight businesses. massive new regulations and tax increases are the problems. just a temporary suspensions don't work. i have been running businesses from scratch and we have to be able to have a long-term lower tax environment. then we will create the next microsoft, apple computers. but right now we have too much government. we have to grow the economy so the government is back in balance. >> i am not associated with the

tea party. i am a tea drinker. i am a loyal democrat and have been for a long time. i have worked to fight for the values we represent as a party. equal opportunity for all, special privilege for none. helping those who cannot help themselves. fighting for working families and making sure every child has an opportunity to succeed. one of the things i see with the tea party is a tremendous amount of enthusiasm. there is a focus on issues that are important to me and all people i talked to every day, like a growing national debt. these are things i believe we need to work together on, not to motivate one another by trying to divide us.

>> this is the discussion portion. i don't believe i got an answer to my question. do you feel you are 80 party candidate? >> i don't think i'm necessarily a tea party candidate but i respect the objectives of those who want to return to our founders values. yes, people who want limited government. i meet lots of people who say please don't label me as tea party. >> so if you would prefer not to be labeled as such? >> i welcome the tea party support. they seemed to be solid americans who are vigorously attempting to reestablish the american dream. i have been blessed with that dream. my father went to work when he was 14 because his father was burned in a boiler explosion. i worked in pittsburgh in one of

the roughest neighborhoods. i stood up to my party so i'm not necessarily a party guy. i ran against the establishment. >> you have also said you would be an independent voice in washington. you explained many of your possessions for delaware. isn't by saying he would be an independent voice saying i will be a sideline player? people need to take a stand to get things done in washington? >> it is a little bit of both. you need to find like-minded individuals you can work with to work on problems. you have to find people on both sides of the aisle. one of the biggest problems in washington is that republicans are thinking only about their only political advantage they the democrats the same way, instead of thinking about what is best for the country.

there are very serious problems we have to address. getting our economy moving, making sure the health care reform actually works to reduce costs and make premiums more affordable. we have to work together to do that. you can be independent, work within your party is and across party lines. >> do you have a follow up? >> government doesn't create jobs, employers create jobs. we have to encourage employers. you cannot say i love jobs and eight employers. -- and hate employers. i woke -- wrote to the republican leadership and opposed a number of things. >> it is a matter of approach. we as democrats have always seat -- sought to bring people

together. one of the things i hear from my opponent is he is trying to appeal to those divisions, to address issues important to all of us. the way to solve those problems is to bring people together. the fact is we need each other. people are out of work and need business people to create jobs. >> i want to read back a quote from your speech on primary night. >> it was very late. >> we are unwary of on principles politicians who can no longer represent us. who are you're referring to? >> i am referring to the policy regime. -- referring to the nancy pelosi regime.

i support working together with people. i have been a businessman for 33 years. we bring people together. you create coalitions. >> that is the next topic on the table. there is an issue you both agree upon. that is that jobs and the unemployment situation must become a priority. how do you plan to create jobs in the state of delaware? the national unemployment rate is 9.6%. >> creating jobs will be my top priority. the fact is one thing we agree on is that private businesses create those jobs. we need to do what ever we can to make sure small businesses can thrive.

i have talked to small business people and what they tell me is they need access to capital. there is legislation passed recently making available $30 billion through community banks. that is one thing we can do. we also need to make things in america. we need to develop manufacturing facilities and have great opportunities to do that. we have an offshore project that a lot of people have worked towards making short it is a reality. we need to make sure we built the supply chain in delaware. manufacturing the wind turbines for that project. that is hundreds of jobs and millions of dollars. guess what? we are falling behind as a country. we are falling behind europeans, the chinese. i support investment tax credits

that creates that incentives for private businesses to get that going. we need jobs for a middle-class people. i was visiting with some friends earlier today. these were men who were retired but they have earned their living and lifted their families into the middle-class working in the industrial facilities. we need to reinvigorate that kind of -- we can do it. >> we will create jobs in delaware the same way the governor did, with carrots and not sticks. the pelosi party is forcing people to do this and stopping them from doing that.

what we need are incentives, opportunities. we need lower taxes. we are the most highly taxed nation. we had surpassed japan. that stops employers from creating jobs. dupont has hundreds of patents they want people to create jobs with. we cannot do that because investors are afraid to invest. we need equity capital. equity investment funds are what created microsoft and amgen. >> that is opening up a discussion. realistically, isn't any candidate who says they will be elected in november 2010, a to washington in 2011 and fix this problem setting themselves up

for failure? >> i don't think so. there were situations that created the problems. the risky behavior on wall street, irresponsible mortgage lending. there were problems that occurred in the financial market that resulted in millions of people losing their jobs, people being put out of work. the question is, do you have realistic proposals? we have an opportunity right here on the campus down at the old chrysler center. they had great plans to expand the university classrooms. create jobs on the site, create a technology park. i have been working with many through the technology council. those are the kind of jobs that will be here for the future.

i mentioned it renewable energy jobs. >> i wanted to encourage a discussion on this point of jobs, because that is where people are hoping to find a solution that still -- even with patents being enacted through dupont years away. >> those patents are ready for people to work on today if we had a lower regulatory environment. government is not the solution. government is the problem. government created the economic collapse. it forced people into risky loans. sarbanes oxley created this culture of compliance instead of focusing on risk assessment.

just follow these rules and keep your head down, that's what got us into this mess. dodd frank will do the same thing by destroying jobs in the financial services industry. >> i think you read my notes because we will be getting to that. >> we have an immediate problem to get people back to work which requires different solutions than long-term problems. there is an economics professor here who wrote a piece that appeared in the paper about the different approach you need for both of those problems. you don't want to do counter it- stimulus programs today to address long-term debt in the future. you have to do both.

that is why my approach towards extension of the bush tax cuts is different than my party's approach. i'm not sure we can afford them in the long term but we cannot afford not to extend them. >> do you have a final thought on the issue? >> we were promised stimulus would stop unemployment at 8%. it has gone to 10%. i have had conversations with a professor here and he tells me the problem is regulation. it is that culture of compliance. we have stopped assessing risks. this will destroy jobs and delaware's unique court system. >> the next question comes your way. you have made the point that

government is the problem. if i understand your position on deregulation, you feel deregulating the business climate -- that is the way for this nation to be merged. >> i am for safety regulations always, however, we have too much composition -- competition happening over who can hire the best lobbyist to get their competitor regulated. we need the competition to be for better goods and services. only employers create jobs. when you have thousands of pages employers cringe, but they stopped hiring, they don't expand.

they know this new debt that has been added since nancy pelosi took over in 2006 is hanging over their heads. the bill for that will come due in the form of higher interest rates. they don't want to get caught holding the bag. that is why so many don't have jobs. i have created jobs starting with nothing building equity capital through sweat and creating other jobs. government doesn't create jobs. government has an important function. that destroys jobs, it does not create jobs. we need to encourage employers. i'm glad john has followed my lead. he is talking about a two-year extension of the bush tax cuts.

businesses have been down too long. they need 10 years or more to know they can plan. i can understand john does not know that. he proposed to get a grant. >> let me let him respond. >> the difference between my opponent and i -- he believes that the regulations established for wall street -- in 2008 we almost had a collapse of the world financial system. that was the result of a risky practices on wall street, the result of irresponsible mortgage lenders, but millions of people lost their jobs, trillions of dollars of net worth was lost and small-business owners were

hurt all over the country. i am for regulations that make sense so that doesn't happen again. i am for reasonable regulations of wall street. >> now we are into the discussion part. i want to bring back another quote of yours. >> at the core of the financial collapse was fannie mae and freddie mac. this bill does not even address that. come on, physician heal yourself. you caused this problem by creating quotas for lending to people.

there is enough blame to go around. let's tell all the truth and nothing but the truth. >> what i am concerned about is the affect on main street. all those practices that we watched and read about since 2008 have reached havoc on main street. small-business owners and thousands out of work. we sought two major manufacturing facilities who have been the backbone of the manufacturing for 50 years go down the drain. and similar experiences across the country. the reason was we had taken those rules in and taken the referees off the field. when you take the referees off the field the players will not

be nice and play by the rules. >> i know the specifics. we should not have repealed glass teigl. that mixes investment banking and regular banking. we let all bankers take unreasonable risk and we had to bail them out. billionaire scott bailouts and we got the bill. >> that sounds like a great argument for wall street reform. >> that is not what is going on with dodd frank. it will take thousands of jobs away from delaware. >> that is coming up in our next segment. you can elaborate on that. >> i was wondering when you were going to get back to dodd

frankenstein. >> have you read it? >> not really one of the big roles for congress. we have a strong financial services business in our state. we need to send somebody to washington who will make sure we have appropriate oversight on the financial services industry as well as wall street. my opponent makes me leery about whether he will be willing to do that. he does oppose the outcome, but he does not support the rules that have been put in place. >> i don't support regulations nobody has read. the people did not even author themselves. when you jim student loans into

a government health care takeover and nobody knows it, wow. if john and i started reading the first day either one of us was in congress and kept reading we could not read all the thousands of pages of regulations. >> you will be able to come back to this. where do you stand on the implementation to regulate the financial industry? how all of this will impact delaware's corporate climate? >> as i have at -- said several times i support the legislation, but it is not perfect. there will have to be oversights

that did not happen. one of the things our congressional delegation was able to do, one of the great threats to delaware was threats to our status as a corporate center with our corporate law, the legal community in women tend -- in wilmington. they were able to fight off attempts to nationalize corporate law and put it into the securities and exchange commission. that would have been terrible for delaware. we get about 25% of our state budget from corp. franchise fees. our former secretary of state is in the audience tonight and he

worked on that for a number of years to strengthen that business in our state. our delegation was able to fight back off. hi will be a strong advocate for enforcing the rules under dodd frank and protecting delaware's interests in our corporation business. >> your rebuttal. >> it was only congress in mike castle who successfully fought there. that was not accomplished. both of our senators didn't fight for it. those important areas have been moved into the federal courts and that will cost delaware

thousands of jobs and billions of jobs of franchise tax revenue. there are fewer reasons now for corporations to be headquartered in delaware that don't do a fraction of their business in delaware. we provide a unique report that understands corporate issues. dodd frank has driven them into federal court. >> some say the bank bailout prevented an even worse catastrophe. some people would say it is pretty bad. some polls show most of the public believe that money was wasted. do you believe tarp was necessary? >> the problem with tarp was there was very little transparency and accountability. the thing that upset people was

the fact that billions of dollars of taxpayer money went to bail out these major banks and wall street institutions without any accountability. these banks made billions of dollars and bank executives walked away with big bonuses. that is what upset people. there was not enough accountability in that legislation to prevent just that. they saw their pay cut and their experience with a pay cut -- >> you can jump in. >> economists call it moral hazard. if you reward people for bad behavior they keep do in net.

-- they keep doing it. we awarded institutions for doing stupid things. this bailout was a lot of populist talk. it did not filter down to people. we need to separate investment banking where you can take all the risks you want from depository banking where we the taxpayers backstop the financial system. i have lived in that world of finance for 33 years. there are places to be regulated and i support that. we have too much beat the competition regulations. but that is where the growth is.

>> there is an inconsistency in that argument criticizing the bailout's and practices that took place, but not supporting the bill that fixes the problem. i support legislation that it reestablished as reasonable rules of wall street bankers. glen does not support that. >> the cure is worse than the disease. if i had a call if you might give me heroin to get rid of it, but you make me an addict. we should have let corporations like general motors go through the bankruptcy process. it would be a vibrant organization that would have been reorganized and would be creating more jobs today.

what we did was violate the constitution and the bankruptcy laws by putting the bond holders at the bottom of the pile. >> in the process we have saved tens of thousands of jobs across the country. in a sector where we need them the most. >> jobs would not have gone away. we would have a more vibrant company with assets had been sold. we have almost $two trillion of investment capital sitting on the sideline. that will create jobs. >> we will go to a topic change here. >> our next issue is on the

issue of health care. the health care reform law remains divisive. those in favor of it call it a work in progress. we don't need to establish that. better management of health care and a means for people to control the costs is something people want to see resolved. what do you want to see happen in the short term to address this problem? >> i don't want to see government health care that is a tax bill. the administration admitted it was a tax bill. 17,000 new irs agents at the cost of $10 billion. i think of heart attacks when i think of irs agents. competition is the solution.

we have the best health-care system in the world. we need to extend that through state high risk pools funded by tax credits, health savings accounts, the way it singapore does it. they have the most highly rated health care system in the world. in the "new york times," they said last year the problem with our health care system was big. big government, big money, big health insurance companies, who want to control the money. we need policies owned by individuals with collective pullooling. delaware only has pretty much three health-care insurers. if we had 1600 companies competing we would bring costs

down. but you cannot increase the demand and reduce the supply of health care providers and do anything but create long lines. the solution is competition. that is how we got cell phones, the internet. we had one provider and now we have you two, twitter and so forth. -- we have youtube, twitter. >> there are certain things in it that i would change but doing nothing is not the answer. health insurance premiums have doubled in the last 10 years. of the employee contribution side, they have gone up 2.5 times. that means money out of families pockets and less money for food

and college. we have to work on getting our arms around costs. that is what i would do. there are a number of things i will continue to do that address costs. patient-centered medical homes. electronic medical records. another opportunity to reduce costs and improved safety. >> i know you both disagree on the electronic records. it has received mixed reviews. >> can i just say one of the outcomes of government taxcare is mcdonald's will cut out their health insurance. many other employers are cutting out their health insurance because they have read the bill and are saying we cannot make this work. there is too much mandating by special interests.

lots of people don't want to pay for that coverage. i don't want to pay for a sex change operations and other things, but those kinds of things are being mandated. >> that is just not accurate. something i have discomfort with is there are general requirements about what the basic benefit plan ought to look like. on understand the rationale behind it to make sure families have a plan that is meaningful, but it also drives up costs. i have read summaries of the bill. that is why the next member of conagra's , it is important they work with agencies that have to establish what they are. we need to make sure that when we put a mandate that i am

uncomfortable with -- make sure they have affordable plans. >> isn't not requiring health insurance -- it is the uninsured -- because when they do require health-care it is a crisis situation that drives up costs. >> that is exactly right. people go to the hospital with an acute situation something they could have taken care of with a primary care physician. the hospital treats them and they are not able to recover that compensation. that's gets -- that gets shifted to this with out insurance. the mandate is there. you need to work with making sure there are affordable plans for people to write out don't have health insurance.

people who don't have health insurance are the working poor. they decide i cannot find an affordable coverage for me or my family. >> the difference is that this should be done on a state level. we have 50 states. what is best for delaware -- it has a series of national mandates. we can do this with health savings accounts, tax credits, and grants to those trule impoverished. >> have either of you ever been without insurance? >> i was with it -- without it right out of college. one of the great things about this bill is now they can stay

on their parents coverage until age 26. that is a transitional time for all of us. average health-care costs have gone up 5% since this bill passed. for many years -- when i started my business the way i made ends meet was i worked at 83 pigs in mclean. i just prayed my clients did not see me. i got food from their at night. >> is getting the american citizen tax burden under control -- if that is part of the solution then where would you begin? making the bush tax cuts permanent, or do what? >> we refer to this a little

bit. we need to get our economy moving in the short term. we have the worst recession in my lifetime. 35,000 delawareians out of work. we have to get our economy moving again. i don't believe we can afford to have anybody's taxes go up. if nothing is done by the end of the year in congress, those bush tax cuts will expire which means people's taxes will go up. it doesn't make sense for anybody surtaxes to go up. the second problem is increasing deficits and the national debt. we have to keep our eye on that for the long term. i would only extend these tax cuts for three years while democrats and republicans worked on a comprehensive plan to get

our deficit under control in the long term. you need different actions to address each. that is what i thought the peace in the paper with the economics professor made sense, because it created a framework for dealing with stimulus and job creation and the need to get the arms around the deficit. you have to keep tax policy in that mix. it makes no sense to do that in isolation. no ordinary family in delaware would do that, to figure out what you will spend money on without thinking about how much salary he will make. it does not make any sense. >> i want to thank you for being progressive because the last time you were here police said one-two years of bush tax cut

extension -- what we need is a permanent tax cuts. tax cuts like what the rest of the world has. there is no capital gains taxes in the former soviet union. business will thrive when we have a stable tax cuts. we will at millions of jobs. cutting the deficit -- canada cut their tax rate to 15%. the unemployment rate fell to 7.9%. the national debt fell below $950 billion. you can't do both. -- you can do both. you increase taxes like nancy pelosi wants you to increase foreign subsidiaries, -- >> > >2-3 years.

-- i think 2-3 years. with this confrontational manner that glen will be able to bring republicans and democrats together to address this issue. it will take democrats and republicans to work together because if you don't, then the other side uses something one side wants to cut as a political weapon. >> i'm glad you asked. what we need to cut spending. i ran a federal agency. >> i thought he was a private sector guy. >> i was a part-time head of a federal agency. we handled the consolidation of the cia.

brack helped us holddown military costs. the airports have a lot of bases they did not want. but they could not get rid of them because congressman would not let them leave their districts. we need a bipartisan commission that cuts costs through expert testimony and the current cost-cutting commission is an adviser to the president. it has no power to put it in front of the president. >> i have called for across-the- board cuts, for what the president has right now, a bipartisan commission. a brack-like commission? that could work as well. we have to have something where we have democrats and republicans working together to get our arms around this

problem. they have proven they cannot do it through normal business. what i was secretary of finance, my job was to make sure that we have the revenue to support the expenditure side of the budget. we were fortunate. it was the 1990's and we have surplus revenue. we were cutting taxes every year. the results of those tax cuts was stronger business growth, more money for families, and it was a very positive thing. my problem is -- >> but spending went up 80% while you were there as secretary of finance. >> every year the was secretary of finance, we cut personal taxes and business taxes 25% during that period of time. >> when you left, delaware had a deficit -- $800 million. >> he kept mentioning this number. it did not make any sense to me, because every year, by the

constitution, the government is supposed to have a balanced budget. what he refers to is after the near financial collapse in 2008, caused by deregulation of the financial markets, the economy went into the tank, and there were not revenues for the budget. >> businessmen plan ahead. they know there are rainy days. the failure to plan ahead and anticipate problems, the failure to create budget surpluses to act as a cushion is what the issue is. >> he obviously does not understand how the budget works. >> i understand all the credo of accounting and cooking the books, accelerating the collection of -- >> first of all -- >> you used the phrase cooking the books, we need to a lot mr. carney to respond 3 >> he talks about -- governor dupont

created a rainy day fund. so we do have those. >> i need to move us on to our next issue, and it is a question that is coming to you first. privatization of social security was a longtime republican priority. it was the focus of a former president bush. it was the republican congressional majority was looking for the last time they won in 2004 during an election cycle. this is 2010. where you stand on that? >> it is not the time to do that at all. we have to look at the big picture. government is too big. the governor -- the deficit is too big. we have to grow the size of the economy. we need to hold spending at 2008 levels, not 2010 levels. 2008, increasing it only in it -- for inflation, increase in population. grow the size of the economy with tax cuts and incentives for

businesses. debt destroys not just jobs, but it destroys social security and it destroys our national security. loans and -- admiral mullens and hillary clinton have both said that the greatest threat to america's national security is the national debt. our interest is getting close to exceeding what we spend on our national defense. if interest rates go up a little bit, as they always do, we will not be able to afford our national defense. this is not the time to tinker with social security. i think there should be options for younger people, but we can address that down the road. the fundamental issue is to get our economy growing so bad that does not destroy our ability to pay social security para >> do you have a rebuttal? >> i do not agree with privatizing social security. all you need to do is look back over the last 10 years to see what would happen if people were

relying an individual retirement accounts or private accounts. we need to do things to shore up social security for the long term. this is a program that has provided security for just millions of people in our country for a long time. we need to make sure it is there, particularly for those who have worked hard and paid into the system. we do need to encourage retirement savings, and i support the tax credits to do hat, the ira's the augment the social security program. we needed to protect social security and not privatize it. we can see what would happen if the bush people have gotten their way occurred >> it is essential that we become a saving and investment society again. that is what made us great, not an indebtedness society. we are becoming debt slaves. i do not want that for my grandchildren or anybody on or old per request is the alarm not sounding?

it is not the first time, but it this year. >> baby boomers are preparing to leave the workforce and start collecting. so it sounds like this is a very large alarm that, for the most part, is on the back burner. >> there are big alarm bells ringing ever work, not just in social security. what most people do not understand, and that is why am a strong supporter of health care reform, getting our arms around costs is because medicare, the unfunded liability in medicare is seven times the unfunded liability in social security. in some ways, it is a bigger problem still. we have medicare, we have social security, we have got growing deficits and debt. we have got to get -- that is an alarm bell that is ringing loudly per >> absolutely. we have to control the debt. we want to see people, we will cut you off for services and cut it that way? no.

we are americans. we will grow our way of the problem. we will cut taxes, create incentives, create jobs and create tax revenue. the seven years i was with ronald reagan as a minor presidential appointee, i have great seats. the economy grew 40%, and more important, while we talk -- cut tax rates, tax revenues increased 88%. we added 17 million net new jobs. when we do that -- and we can do that with nanotechnology -- we will see tax revenues increase. we will solve the deficit problem. i helped start a home health care agency. i know a little bit about health contain it. and government there is the problem. it is not a solution. >> let me give actors social security and just get a flat answer progress but it applies to social security as well. >> sure the retirement age be raised? >> we need to sit down and work

it out. >> you do not have the position on raising the retirement age? >> i think we have to come up with a comprehensive plan. we cannot do it in little silos. you have to look at the whole picture. >> france raised their social security retirement age. others have. it is one of the things we need to look at. that needs to be of bipartisan commission, brack-like commission. we have had too many advisory commission. >> and neither one of you are saying you are against it. you are for looking at it. >> we need to put it out on the table and show the american people. the social security system when it started, retirement age was 65 which it basically is today. the average age of survival was 62. it was called old age survival insurance. if you won the lottery and you lived to age 75 or 80 and have coverage, the people save for

their own retirement. we need to become a saving and investment country again. we do that by growing the economy. >> there are no easy answers with respect to what has to be done with social security, medicare, and the budget deficit. that is why we need the approach i have been advocating, democrats and republicans working together coming up with a comprehensive plan, looking both sides of the ledger, all extending tax cuts until we have that plan in place, because those decisions, all them, are going to be very difficult to be made. >> you just cannot understand, having not been a businessman, two or three years is not enough time to plan. people will not take the risk. >> you have 30 seconds. let me let mr. carney. 15 seconds. >> you do not need to be a businessman to make these kinds of decisions. >> our next issue goes to the

issue of national security. americans that are boarding planes today, tonight, tomorrow for your are uneasy with the terror alert that was issued. -- tomorrow for europe with the terror alert that was issued. evaluate the state of our national security. >> the united states of america has the strongest military in the world and we are the greatest force for freedom and democracy around the world. as a member of congress, i will work hard to keep that. but we cannot just be strong. we have to be smart as well. that means a diplomatic policies that do not undercut other efforts around the. world world. that means better counter- terrorism efforts to fight terrorism and dangerous parts of the world like afghanistan and the badlands in afghanistan --

in pakistan. that means providing the necessary equipment for our brave men and women who are fighting battles in far off lands and wars that we have not experienced before. it also means taking efforts to shore up the homeland. there was a report that just came out recently that concluded that the most serious terrorist threat that we have is domestic threats, like the times square bomber. i know a little bit about working with local law enforcement agencies. i served as chair of the delaware criminal-justice council and we worked together with federal agencies and the fbi and local police. those of the kinds of things we need to do in addition to keeping our military strong, having smart, diplomatic policies are around the world, and finding ways to fight terrorism in remote and dangerous parts of the world. >> your rebuttal?

>> national-security is essential. we have the strongest military. the problem is the debt threat. according to harry clinton, that is destroying our ability to maintain our national security. i worked with the cia, with bill casey, i have flown on and off carriers, i have been with our men and women, and i have seen how wonderful they are. but we have to provide the assets. the chinese are threatening us with the development of a carrier killer missile. we are failing to build a space- based thousand interceptor portion of our interceptor system. that is vital. to reduce the number of trips we have to keep overseas. this administration has deferred a missile defense system for the east coast. they are only building on the west coast. we have a window of vulnerability. -- in less than five years to

or rainy and an intercontinental missiles -- iranian intercontinental ballistic missile. >> i think that is the wrong focus. that is my point of being both a strong and smart, the kind of approach we need, instead of working on antiballistic missile systems, we need to work on a better counter-terrorism efforts, fighting terrorists in remote parts of the world. i do not know. what i hear from people and the way i feel about afghanistan, i am very on how to go with our position in afghanistan. i have always believed that afghanistan was the war of necessity. that is where the terrorists trained, and that is where they still operate today. and so i always felt like that was, we took our eye off the ball by going into iraq. >> we will get to the washington are in a moment. >> staying focused on fighting terrorism in remote areas like that as opposed to building an anti-missile shield of the

country. i think it is a question of focus and priorities. >> i think americans also realize, though, that there are terrorists that are in this country. in view, then, support efforts by national security officials to be granted broader powers to wiretap internet communication, facebook posting, instant messaging, if it is someone they feel is a suspected terrorist? borden the power -- broaden the power? >> the question really is how much evidence that they have that the suspect is involved in those activities. we have to do that and at the same time, respect and protect rights and freedoms as americans. is a very difficult thing to do, a very difficult line to draw. but we have to do it. we live in a very, very dangerous world with the terrorists who want to kill us. and want to exploit themselves and they will take down dozens of people in major metropolitan

areas in our country. >> let me tell you something everybody can understand. we need to secure our border. we have terrorist walking across our borders right now. the first responsibility of the united states government -- >> terrorist walking across our borders? you mean from where? >> anywhere they want to come from. they can come in from mexico from any part of the world. we need to secure our border. perhaps we will talk about that later. in addition, the center responsibility of the united states government is to provide for the common defense. we need to defend our country against north korea, iran, nations that meet us harm. will be far safer, we will have far more strategic capability, far more ability to keep the fight out there and outside the united states, if we have a missile defense shield. is very, very decided not to build that shield. the technology is there and by adding that letter to the land

and sea portion, we make it far more secure. that gives us greater options. peace through strength if the world knows that we are building the system and we are not bankrupt and our military with this massive accumulation of debt, then we will have more ability to negotiate and avoid conflict. when we can maintain the security of our aircraft carrier groups that i have been with, we can project force. what that means is we keep crazy people from doing stupid things. with theong and smart, emphasis on both. we need to continue to have the strongest military in the world and we do. we need to know how to deploy it and when. we need to be smart about the investments we make in our military. we continue to fund obsolete weapons systems because members of congress continued to advocate for putting them in the budget, even though the joint chiefs have not requested them. we need to be smart about the

way we deploy military strength. >> i have already talked about obsolete weapons systems like the 52's. -- like b-52's. >> my part of the job is over. we will not involve the other portion of the program and we will turn to the university of delaware students for their questions. our audience here in the hall, you will see the questions on the monitor. candidates, the responses are limited to one minute. first, we would hear from an education major who is asking about resources in the classroom. >> every year, i go and and i have to do observations as part as my courses and i sequesters with your and your resources necessary to accomplish an ever more difficult task of educating children. my question is, what would you do to change this growing trend where teachers keep losing resources as opposed to getting resources necessary to give our

children the tools necessary to succeed? >> glen urquhart, your response for. >> we obviously need resources. but there are wiser ways to do education. charter schools work very well. walk around and less affluent neighborhoods and wellington, i was excited to see the number of kids in charter schools uniforms, some of them with tears in their eyes said, why can my sister or brother go to a charter school? we need to increase competition. we need to increase options. now, the government is not the solution. when we send $125 million to the department of education, we get $100 million back. only $50 million gets into the question period is 40 cents of the dollar. nothing operates effectively that way. we need to do it smarter. that education that education cent -- educates at the most

local -- family, a teacher, school this level, works best. >> education has to be a top priority. our students coming up today are competing not just against kids who are growing up in maryland and pennsylvania and new jersey. they are competing against kids coming up in china, india, and indonesia. we have to have high standards. we have to make sure that all of our children are able to reach those standards. the way to do that is with a strong principals and excellent teachers in the front of every classroom. the question was about resources in the classroom. the federal role in education is small compared to the state and school district role here in delaware, and it should be, but it is an important role. the resources we provide our for disadvantaged students association get in their classroom, and they should make it possible for teachers to do a better job, but to delay on raising student achievement for students that have the most difficult challenges.

it is an important function and it is one that i will work to continue. >> to all many mandates. to a much teaching for the test. >> we will move on to question to go from one of our students. this is a soon-to-be graduates of the university of delaware sharing concerns about entering a job market that may have no job. >> i am going to be graduating in january and with unemployment at about 10%, and competing with people who are exponentially more qualified and have been in the workforce for a really long time. what kind of economic policies are you going to enact an order to help recent graduates like me? >> we talked about this a while ago, strengthening small businesses, providing a tax cut for small businesses. in particular, i like the idea of a payroll tax holiday for small businesses to hire someone. i believe there are great opportunities in new energy technologies, research and development tax credits for businesses to spur innovation

and manufacturing, tax credits for businesses to set up operations in our state. this particular individual is going out into the marketplace soon heard one of the things that can be very helpful for some of the university of delaware students that have worked for our campaign is to get involved with an internship. maybe it -- maybe the pay is not great. i know that when i coached football at the university of delaware, i got a few hundred dollars for each season. but it was an opportunity to meet people, oftentimes, you find somebody who is willing to hire. you make an impression and someone hires you down the road. that would be a good opportunity. >> stop the debt. that destroys jobs. paralyzes employers. with tax cuts, we will get an explosion of new jobs in net of technology, biotechnology, distribution, all sorts of areas. but some of the best employees i have ever hired i did not even know i needed.

they bugged me. s, how does your business work? they asked questions. i would say to all the people looking for jobs, go find a business, learn about it, keep asking, create your own job by learning and suggesting solutions. we are americans. we have overcome the revolutionary war, the civil war, two world wars we were unprepared for, we can do this again. we can do this in the american constitutional way by cutting taxes and regulation and employers will create jobs. we will create the next microsoft, the next apple, we can do it. there is life after debt. >> we will move on to our next question. this comes from a continuing education student at the university of delaware who brings up the issue of medicare costs per >> president obama said that you like to cut $500 bill and for medicare. if elected, do you agree with the president's plan to cut the

advantage of the medicare that for fixed icost be trying t ncomncome recipients? >> no. it is a bad idea. the cbo says there is $80 billion of waste, fraud and abuse. we can cut that by creating competition, even within a federal agency. if we can create competition with incentives and do a better job. ma medicare is the problem in health care and as it -- is the problem just the way ma bell was the problem. many people were old enough to remember when telephones were 10 pounds and there were connected by wire to the wall. we have the telecommunications revolution during the reagan administration because of competition. ronald reagan did not invent the internet any more than al gore did, but they were wise enough to know that when they opened up

the playing field, millions of investors and innovators would create what they did create, cell phones and telecommunications. we can do the same thing in medical technology. >> the issue is medicare. >> i have mentioned it several times this evening. the only way we can get our arms around of urgency -- burgeoning budget deficit in the national debt is to bend the cost curve down on health care costs. in those costs are rising across the board. the estimates are that medicaid -- medicare fraud is about $62 billion. and we all recover couple billion dollars. the way i look at it there are $60 billion right there. we need to implement some of the things i talked about earlier in terms of patient-centered medical loans. it is basically the concept of changing the incentive and the delivery of health care services while providing higher-quality.

also, electronic medical records which enables doctors and providers, hospitals to provide care as a without the duplication, with greater safety. >> that is a number of things. >> let's move on to our next student question pure the university of delaware is in the forefront of alternative energy research. this is doing is asking about wind power. >> what is your opinion amount -- on the offshore wind farm that is going to be built of the delaware coast line? in addition to that, i want to know your opinions on alternative energy sources and what you guys think would be the best ones to use here in delaware. >> as i said several times before, i am a strong supporter of alternative energy options, particularly focusing on creating jobs in holding industries here in our state. the offshore wind project which professors here at the university of delaware have promoted for several years is a great opportunity to do that. somebody is going to build those

turbines, a towers, and other components and we ought to build them here in delaware. businesses have to make the investment, to have the equipment and facilities to make the power. we consorts the steal from my old hometown of claymont. we need to attract a turbine maker to set up here. it is a tremendous opportunity to create a whole new industry here and our state. and there'll be hundreds of other towers and projects up and down the east coast. delaware can actually lead the way if we get out there first. one of the things i will do as a member of congress is make sure the federal agencies do their jobs in approving it. >> of course john tries to make this sound nice. he tried to take $1.5 million of taxpayer money to pay salaries to run a business that just went to washington to take more taxpayer money to try to create a green energy business. look, i have proposed that we

fore a huge national pridze an efficient electronic storage system so we can effectively use wind and solar power. the problem is a storage. you've been with me -- you built windmills. they cost four tiems mes as muc. there will produce electricity that is three times as expensive as the then energy produced on the land. and every time that you build a wind turbine it you have to build a gas turbine. that gas turbine has to be spinning 24/7 every single day to take up the slack because wind only produces power a few hours a day. >> we will have to put on hold on that discussion. this question comes from a sophomore history major part >> my question is what is your position on the policy of don't ask don't tell? do you think should be overturned? >> glen urquhart?

>> on believe we should follow the advice of the professional military. these are people who understand how things work in the field. so i would like to see a full study by them. i do not want it rushed by politicians in either party. today, afghanistan which is so important to us, this war, protecting us here at home is being fought by small unit leaders. first and second lieutenant out there with very small groups. we need a professional military to evaluate this issue over time. i believe that everybody who patriotically wants to serve their country should have that opportunity, but the nuts and bolts, the mechanics, that has to be determined by professionals to understand what it is like to have got -- five guys in a tiny village in afghanistan. how would that work? i want to see that evaluated by the professionals. i want a career politicians to stay out of it. >> i would vote to overturn

don't ask don't tell. has been in place since the clinton administration and we learned it just does not work. we are dealing with thousands of committed, dedicated americans who want to serve their country and they are being kicked out of the military because they are being exposed, and it should not happen that way. so i would vote to overturn a don't ask don't tell. military people that i have talked to indicate that this is necessary and i >> the colorization of politics is on the mind of our next student progress if you are elected, and they have the ability to break -- you may have the ability to break the stalemate in washington. so, what would you do to restore bipartisanship in congress? >> company i alluded to it a little bit earlier. i think that think -- i alluded to it a little bit earlier. one of the first things i would do and going to washington is find like-minded people like

myself, people who share the same approach to creating jobs, getting our economy going again. people to share my view with respect to what we need to do with health care, with getting our arms around deficits and debt, with adjusting the challenge of global -- addressing the challenge of global climate change. and i mean democrats and republicans and work from that group to influence the other members of the chamber. i think that is the only way to do it. if you do not do it, then what will happen is, and the democratic caucus you have the far left that will drive the agenda. in the republican caucus, you will have the far right that will drive the agenda. nothing will get done. and so i would be one of those people that is somewhere in the middle, trying to drag people on to the other side to get consensus on these issues. >> and forcefully, the middle has gotten us massive debt which is destroying national security, jobs and family. i am a coalition builder. you cannot build a business from

scratch unless you can bring people together according to a common objective. i would, of course, do that. i want to emphasize my independence. i stood up to the establishment in my party and i wondered i will stand up for the truth. their new proposal does not include a ban on your marks. i will stand up for that lovely. -- a ban on earmarks. 80% of americans did not trust the congress. leaders lead in sacrifice. that is why i propose cutting the pay, perks, privileges of members of congress, starting with me so that that well -- that will not balance the budget but it will balance of the equity so we the people can believe in our leaders again as we did in our founding fathers and we followed them to establish this country at huge risk. they pledged their lives, fortunes and the sacred honor. i pledge my. >> this is a question i have.

quick answers, please. if he were elected, what committee would you want to survive? >> i have not given it at a moment's worth of thought. i have been focusing on talking up and down the state. at the end of the day, i work for them. i have not thought much about washington at all. i have been thinking about what i needed to do to serve the people of our state. the only way i can figure that out is by having conversations with people, by talking to them about the struggles they have in this difficult economy and their solutions, what would they do to address some of the problems that we face today in america. >> have you thought about committee service? >> yes. i spent a lot of time testifying under oath. ways and means, finance, armed services. all three of those committees are affected by and can affect debt. we need to get the debt down to create jobs and assure our

national security. >> let's move on to our next student question. the topic -- this is on relying on foreign fuel. >> i would like to know, given the united states dependence on foreign oil, what do think the best bait -- the best way would be for our country to end that? >> we are the greatest producer. we have the most resources of energy of anybody in the world. we need to use what we have been blessed with here. we have onshore resources in the west, in the eastern united states, in alaska. we need to use those resources, and we need to respect states' rights. louisiana has a far better idea how and where to drill than delaware does with respect to louisiana. delaware has a better idea about not drilling offshore here in delaware to protect our seacoast . alaska and colorado have proven

reserves. there is the field and pennsylvania. states need to decide these things without so much mandated interference and cost additions by the federal government. of course, we needed to create more energy here and we can. we are still americans. we can do this. >> we have to stop our addiction to oil. one of the things that -- a position i've taken is in opposition to the president's proposal to drill for oil off the coast, the east coast and off the coast of delaware. i do not think it makes sense for our state. i do not think it is worth the risk. and it continues that reliance that we have on fossil fuels. i think what we need to do is focus on innovation. we have a great opportunity here and the state with the automotive coming to the old general motors plan to produce electric vehicles, plug in hybrids. we need to change the way transportation occurs. we need to envision a new

future that does not have carbon based fuels. there will be a transition period for sure, but we need to focus on innovation. we need to incentivize that and evasion. we need to have places like the university of delaware, professors at work here, working on new technologies. >> i to to want to try something. chairman it was up. -- your minute was up. if either of you are elected -- >> we hope. are you expecting an assassination attempt? >> it does amtrak tie into this? does this nation need to look at improving the link between wilmington and robust, between wellington and paris . ? >> we need to be building a high-speed trains in delaware. there was incentive money for the development of high-speed trains, but guess what?

where will the train's been made? they will be made in china. we need to make things here in america. we need to innovate, develop the technology here and keep the manufacturing of those technologies here in the united states. and high-speed trains -- that gives us an opportunity to do that. >> there are private-sector proposals to build a rail line into southern delaware. we need to do this in the private sector. we need to release of the triumph of dollars in investment capital -- the trillions of dollars in investment capital. windmill's sound wonderful but at 25 cents a kilowatt hour, compared to 1,000 kilowatt hours, compared to nuclear at a couple of cents or gas turbinees at five or six cents, do delawareans want to add thousands of dollars to their bills? >> you have included the question portion of the debate.

it is now time for your closing statement. our first two-minute closing statement comes from mr. carney. >> once again, i would like to thank the university of delaware for hosting this debate tonight. i am proud to be an aide of delawarean. i have lived here almost my entire life. i went away to dartmouth play football and get an education. i came back to delaware to get a master's in public administration because i wanted to help people and make a difference. i have had a great privilege to serve the people of our state as an elected official. and i have always tried to live up to the oath of office that we take to always remember that the power of the office comes from the people. i am for a list represent. i've got to know most every community -- i am privileged to represent. i have got to know most every community in our state.

i have come to know the great diversity and strength of our people. i've come to know the challenges that we face. delawarens are struggling. they are a lot of work or their pay has been cut. they're having a hard time paying their bills and raising their kids. like most people, i am frustrated with what i see in washington, d.c. -- too much bickering and fighting. it is not enough just to criticize what is not happening in washington. my opponent wants to take us back to the failed policies of the past. he wants to repeal health care reform and roll back wall street regulation. a delawarens are looking for leaders who have real solutions to the challenges we face to get our economy moving again. i will be that kind of leader and i will be that kind of congressman souder. i want to thank everybody again for coming out tonight. i hope he will consider voting for me on november the second. thank you very much. >> your closing statements? >> thank you very much. i appreciate this opportunity. job creator.

my opponent is an honorable man, but he is a career politician. i have lived the american dream. but that dream is being turned into a nightmare. it is being turned into a nightmare by debt that destroys jobs, destroys our national security and destroys our families. i know how to create jobs. i know how to cut taxes and increase the size of this economy and grow our way out of our problems. my dad went to work when he was 14 years old as a copy boy. i started working with my grandfather as a plumber in pittsburgh when i was 12 years old. i am the first in my family to go to college. i was blessed with my wife to start with nothing and built businesses and employ people and create credible and create other jobs -- create capital and create other jobs. i do not need to go to washington to have a job. in fact, i proposed pay cuts for myself and other members of congress to create the

confidence that this country needs again. i am approving job creator and i hope it will send me to washington to create jobs and rebuild our great economy. i have proven that i can stand up to the career politicians in my own party and be independent. if you want an independent voice in washington for delaware, if you want a jobs creator, then i ask you to vote for me, glen urquhart. and remember that the second half of my last name is heart. we need more heart in washington. let's put heart attack in the congress. i would ask you to send me there. i hope you will visit my website. thank you very much. god bless you. i have enjoyed coming to delaware. >> this has been an enjoyable evening from this perspective as well. so i thank both of you for your honesty, for your addressing the issues that we brought to you on

the table, especially those by the university students. it is an interesting evening of issues. thanks to both of you. and then citizens to provide our questions, to our audience. on behalf of delaware first media and the university of delaware center for political communication, i am nancy thank you for joining us prepared -- thank you for joining us. >> our 2010 campaign coverage continues tomorrow night with candidate debates in ohio, nevada, and georgia. president obama appears at a political rally for maryland governor martin o'malley. live coverage begins at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. you can find more on all of this year's campaigns by visiting our politics website, where you will find campaign debates, profiles of key races, and campaign advertising videos. it is all at c- span.org/politics. [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

\ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] up next on c-span, the senate canada's debate in florida. an update on this year's congressional races. and later, a look at a house race in pennsylvania's seventh district. >> this weekend, c-span-3 takes a trip to richmond, virginia, for a civil war and antic "the today shoque show. oldier'st uplifted shoulde spirits during the civil war. american history television. all weekend, every weekend on c- span-3. >> this year, florida has a three-way race for the u.s. senate. the candidates, republicans marco rubio, a democrat kenrik

meek, and independent charlie crist met for their first debate tonight in orlando. "good morning america" host george stephanopoulos posted this hour-long debate -- hosted debate.r-lionong >> charlie crist, the republican governor turned independent, now a wild card. >> we will change it up a little better. >> republican marco rubio. he vows to fight the president's agenda and change the direction in washington. kenrick meeks. he defeated a billionaire to win at the democratic nomination but loves being an underdog. >> i will still be comfortable playing david. >> tonight, from orlando, the heart of the battleground state, we bring you florida's abc news senate debate. hello, everyone.

i am george stephanopoulos. we are here for a debate between florida's three senate candidates. this is the first prime-time debate for the three candidates, marco rubio, kendrick meek, and charlie crist. welcome to all of you. got a loose format. we will have a round of questions were each canada has 60 seconds to respond. 30 seconds for a bottle. we want to make sure all the questions are answered. -- 30 seconds for rebuttal. >> i am running for the senate as an independent because i think washington is broken and we need a change of tone in our nation's capital to get it back working for you. abraham lincoln once said that the government should be of the people, by the people, and for

the people. i believe that is true -- not of the party, by the party, and for the party. that is why i run as an independent. there is an extreme right faction in the republican party and i think i am the only candidate in both win in november and crash that tea party in washington. this time to have common sense back in our nation's capital. -- it is time to it have common sense back in our nation's capital. when the extreme right wanted to punish schools to do with the bill this last session, i vetoed that bill. when mr. wright wanted to change the way the women would be able to make a decision about their own life and force them to get an ultrasound, force them to pay for it, force them to do it and the lecture on it, it was too much to the right and use the veto pen and i stopped it. i have done it as your governor. i will do it as your senator. when the extreme right said they wanted to raise the age of eligibility and restructure how social security is distributed to our citizens, i said no way.

if you want a new voice in washington. if you want a better way, somebody who will fight for you, the people of our state, instead of the respective parties my opponents are in, then i would ask for your vote on november 2 for the next u.s. senate member. thank you. >> 3 thank you prepar. i want to thank all of the abc affiliates for the work you have done. i am running to be your next united states senator. i think floridians are going to have to take a stand in this election over the next several weeks. if you want united states senator that is going to stand with oil companies and in special interests and will stand with health care companies and to deny u.s. healthcare, then you should vote for marco rubio. if you want someone who will stand by and be a very weak united states senator, that will not speak up when it is time to speak up, then you need to vote for governor charlie crist. but if you want a candidate in the united states senator that

will stand with you against oil companies, not allowing them to drill off the coast of florida, as i have done, because i'm the only one sitting at this table as done it. or if you want someone who will stand by the decisions that have been made as it relates to health care, that insurance companies did not drop you and your greatest time of need, then you are looking at the candidate that will stand up for you. if you want to make sure that we create jobs here in florida, working with local leaders, making sure we come up with real solutions that will create jobs now and not later, then you were looking at your candidate. if you are looking for united states senator that will stand up for the middle-class, making sure the middle class get tax cuts and not brought on to the ideologies of my other two opponents that embrace their entire political career, that special interests and the super wealthy in this country are some -- somehow the dollars will trickle down to the middle class, then you are looking at the candidate that is going to stand on behalf of the middle class and create jobs in this

state. i look forward to this debate. i hope you can make a sound decision as we continue to move forward to november the second. >> it is art is started. -- it is already started. >> america is the greatest country in the history of the world. it will not continue automatically. what is made america great is that every generation before says confronted and salt the great challenges of their time and because they did, each generation has inherited a better life prepare. they are taking as in the direction that will double our national debt in five years and triple it in 10. do you want to stay on the road or do you want to go in a better direction, a direction that will allow us to keep america the

greatest nation in all of human history? that is the choice and florida. if you like the way things are going and washington, if you support the direction that washington is taking american, then i am probably not your candid. there are two other people that support the direction washington is going. if you want the next senator that will be someone who will stand up the direction that washington is taking our country and will offer an alternative, an alternative that will allow us to leave our nation -- leave our children what they deserve it. there is only one candidate that will do that. that is why i am asking for your vote. >> let's begin our questions. it is about social security. one in six floridians received social security. governor crist put out a tough new at this suggests you're openness to raising the retirement age, and people working harder for the money, and balance the budget on the bakccks of seniors.

>> it is untrue. no one who is over 55 years of age or older would be impacted by any of the ideas i put forth. one of those seniors out there is my mother. she depends on social security. is her primary source of income. for you to suggest that i would advocate ideas that would harm her is outrageous. is a lot. here is what i do know. social security is in a lot of trouble. social security is paying out more than it takes in. every year, congress goes in and takes the surplus and raises it and you -- reads it and uses it to pay for other things. as more people retire and there are less workers to pay for it, we will run into a big problem in social security. if they have better ideas on how to save the social security, they should offer them. they should not lie about my record. >> it was his own words that

actually said what he would do with social security. he talked about raising age of social security. he said he would restructure it as it is delivered. talked-about privatization. i understand that he may not like what he said before, but the facts are the facts. this is what he said. this is what he said to the people of florida. when he was still running and had not achieved the nomination yet, he had all of this hard right stuff he wanted to talk about all the time. now he has changed course because we have 26 days ago in this election, but i stand by the advertisement. it is truthful and straightforward. the people of florida have the right to know what marco rubio would do. he would put raising the age of eligibility on the table, privatizing social security on the table. i'm the only one in this race who has said that i will protect and preserve the social security as we know it today. my other opponent, the congressman, said that he wants to. it to a commission.

we all know what happens -- he wants to putnt it to a commission. it was a promise that was made to seniors in our state and throughout the country, a promise that i believe needs to be honored and respected. if i am elected to the senate, i will do just that. >> who is right here? >> i will talk about ads. i was the first one to say that i was the only one that fought against privatization of social security always. mr. rubio talked about private accounts in january. governor chris was with george w. bush in 2006 when he was talking about privatization of social security. and then when he ran against senator graham saying that we should privatize some of it. i was the only one who fought against president bush when he wanted to privatize social security. i think it is important when we look at this issue of social security, who's telling the

truth. mr. rubio, it is interesting to see his people try to spin this kind of thing. he said he is willing to privatize social security. governor crist says that we would legalize folks and then pay for social security to that effort. i am saying, let's expand the middle class work force so that we can pay into social security. one, but floridians back to work . those that are under 55, that is working hard to pay into a trust fund, that we do not change the game on them in the middle of the game. it is important to note that there is only one candidate here that has a track record of standing up for social security. i will say this every flurry in. if they want to change social

security, they will have to go through me. iowa before a state trooper. i used to be a football player. i think it is important that we do not allow this kind of political tailspin on this issue. >> let's try to wrap this up and move on. on the question of privatization, you raise some charges as well. i want a yes or no answer. is it still on the table? >> it is not. they are taking pairs of the system. i said that in march. -- they are taking payors out of the system. not a single senior watching this program would be impacted by any of the changes i discussed. >> let's be perfectly clear about what marco rubio has said about social security. he has said that he would raise the age of eligibility. he said that. he said everything should be on the table. and if he wants to deny tonight, so be it, but those are the facts. i am the only one who said we need to protect and preserve it

as it is today. >> for clarification purposes. marco rubio said he's open to privatization. charlie crist said he is open to privatization. both have plans to do so. i am the only candidate that is saying no to privatization. >> we have not heard an idea about how to save the system. >> how about an idea of standing up for the middle class? >> is creating jobs not a plan? >> that's a goal. >> it is a great gold to have a we have double-digit unemployment. i think folks want jobs created. they do not want political talk back and forth. >> he supported a stimulus package that led to higher unemployment. >> we have got to move on. 10 seconds. >> thank you.

i think it is important we realize where social security is today. let's have a mature discussion about it. report says it is -- reports say that it is solvent until 200041. i am hopeful that the economy will continue to improve. i have offered a plan that is supported by robert wright, the secretary of labor in the previous administration. it is a straightforward and simple. there are a 11-14 million people that are not american citizens today, not participating in the american economy. if we can find a pathway to earn citizenship for those 14 million people, they would be paying into the system. when 2041 comes, if social security is being challenged, we have an opportunity to pay for that provides jobs in a legal sense and is compassionate to immigrants who come to our country. >> governor, the citizens for responsibility and ethics in washington named it what it considered to be the 12 most cricket candidates in america, and all three of you made that

list -- the most crooked candidates in america, and all three of you are on that list. you deserve to be ranked among america's most corrupt? >> you have to look at the facts are presented. as it relates to speaker rubio. i worked with him. he put four things that i disagreed with. that is why i used the veto pen. he put forward thousands of dollars for a flag football field in miami. he also put in millions of dollars into a university and got a high-paying job there. he then. money into a hospital that ended up hiring him. he also tried to put into the budget when i was governor and he was the speaker, things for friend of his there wanted to do business on at the turnpike.

i had to veto at three different times in the budget to get it out of there. people want public servants who are there to serve you. that is how i have always conducted myself as governor, as your attorney general, and as your commissioner of education. that is how i will comport myself as your united states senator. you can trust me. >> let's set the record straight. it has been found by an independent group that has looked at it. >> you. $800,000 in the budget. i had to veto it. >> all these things are false allegations. if you wanted a leaner budget, you should have lined up behind our budget. this stuff about corruption and name-calling, that is all screwed politics. it is interesting the governor says he wants to go to

washington and change that. he is participating in that. i think it is about the future of america. just a moment ago, we heard the governor said he supports amnesty for illegal aliens as socialelicioe solution for security. it has already been called nonsense. i don't we did have a debate about the issues that matter to the people. >> i think it is important to look at the political discourse that has taken place in this campaign. the airwaves are full of a tax of family members, governors attacking their mother. you have me, a lot of folks that have said different things about different candidates in this race. but i can tell you this, the bottom line is how we get people back to work? we started talking in the last series about the middle class workforce. i think it is important we expand middle-class jobs. i do not think it needs to be a

trivial issue here. i think it is important. >> i have a plan to do it -- you do not have a plan to do it for ait. >> i believe in tax cuts for small businesses to create jobs and incentives. you said you would vote against health care, you would vote against projects that would be supported by the office of the united states senator that would help local communities such as orlando- >> we should say yes and expanding middle class opportunities in this state. we need to move a a national ideology -- i am not on board with that. i am on board with trying to resolve the issues here in florida. >> the national stimulus was a

massive failure. we aboard and spent over a hundred $50,000 for every job created for saved. [unintelligible] i think what we should have done -- >> you believe that teachers should of lost their jobs in the state. >> the bill was not passed as a bailout of government. he said the stimulus would stimulate the economy and create jobs. 3 million americans lost their jobs. let's be very clear. this is one example of the clear choice is the voters have in this election. if people are in favor of the stimulus, and then you have to vote for one of these guys. but if you understand as most americans do that the stimulus is been a massive failure, i am the only one running who voted against the stimulus bill. [unintelligible] >> i have to get governor crest

of a bottle. >> the reason i'm running as an independent, they are going after each other because one is the republican right and the democratic left. let's talk about the stimulus for second. the congressman is right. it saved over 20,000 educators their jobs in the state of the employers -- in the state of florida. in addition there were 60,000 more individuals whose jobs were saved because of the stimulus. it is also important to cut taxes. the congressman again is right when he says that we need to have a tax cut that not only helps the middle class but also reaches across and extends the tax cuts to those who are small business owners. that will produce jobs for our people. i am the only one who can tell you that republicans have good ideas about reducing taxes. they have good ideas about investing in clean energy in

doing what is right. if you want someone to go to washington and cut through partisanship, i in your guide. >> mr. meek, your colleague recently endorsed your opponent, charlie crist. our recent polls that charlie crist is drawing more democratic support and you are. how do you explain that democrat cost soft support for your candidacy and their apparent embrace of someone who declared himself to be a true republican in the race? >> let me share you with this. recent polls have shown that the governor not are neck-and-neck in this race. the goal is to be the next united states senator. we cannot allow marco rubio to represent the state. he does not carry the values that the state needs and the united states senate needs to put people back to work. he is a personal friend of

governor crist. several members of the democratic delegation, i have a lot of democratic supporters. i have independent supporters. i can tell you that governor talking about he is the only one. marcos says that he wants to bring about change. i can tell you that i am no one sitting here at this table and have a track record to prove it. i think the democratic voters in the independent writers and republican voters, when they look at who is going to go to work for them, they're going to look at me. i've stood up for educators in the state, bringing about smaller class sizes which both of these individuals were guess when they were in the state legislature. who stood up for the increase in the minimum wage in the state? i did. my opponents were against it. who is the pro-choice candidate here?

i am, 100%. and protecting against offshore oil drilling. it is going to be abundantly clear and i cannot tell you how much i appreciate sitting here at this table so that we can get these issues on the table and vacancy the stances. >> it is important to the viewers understand what we're talking about here. it is significantly important to understand that i am very proud that robert wexler in joint -- endorsed my candidacy. he is a friend and a great social service. i am grateful to him for that. he understands the issue of israel very well. it is very important to me. the first trade mission that it is for governor was to the state of israel because i understand unique bond between not only the state of florida and israel, but our country. i actually married a nice jewish girl. it's important to understand

that not only did robert wexler enjoy it -- indoors my candid it see, i am also supported by robert dole. a true hero, a great american. it illustrates to the people on the kind of candidacy that i am putting board. there is a better way. it is supposed to be of the people, by the people, and for the people. george washington address this problem. this partisanship gridlock going on in washington. in his farewell address, he was the first and last independent president of the united states. he said, if we continue to have this partisanship and make the parties get stronger and stronger, we may literally cripple the country we have just created. we're there. washington is crippled. they cannot get anything done. they cannot get anything done on tax cuts. the democratic president of united states has proposed tax cuts. and the republicans of all

people will not do it. >> first of all, he talked about my values. they are straightforward. jobs are created by everyday people. the job of government is to make it easier for to do that, not harder. washington is making it harder. i believe the federal government should not spend more money that it takes an. both of these gentlemen have supported policies that do that. i think the world is a safer place when america is the strongest country in the world. those are my values. but in my voting record, his voting record is virtually identical to nancy pelosi. and charlie crist is changed its position on almost every issue because he is trying to take away votes from kendrick me. i will stand up to the direction washington is moving in offering an alternative. >> mr. crist, this is for you.

marco rubio has accused of taking six different positions on health care. at one point you said you misspoke. that position seems to be that it should be repealed. argued for the of property to reform or against it? >> i am against it. i think we have to fix it. there are parts of it that are good and there are parts that need to be changed. the parts of our good and ought to remain on the fact that they take away what i would call the health insurance companies discriminatory policies whereby if you have a pre-existing condition, you do not get coverage. one of the of the things i think it could in the bill is the fact that it allows young people up to the aged 26 to be able to the continued to be covered by their parents policy. the thing i do not like about the bill the needs to be fixed, they would not let me supported, or the fact it takes about $500 billion out of medicare advantage, particularly in a state like florida, that is

bad. there is also too much taxes and mandates. that leads to the conclusion that it must be fixed in done right. my opponent, marco rubio, talk about the fact that we have to repeal it and use different words to talk about it. but he has also talked about women's rights. this is a health issue, too. he is talked about you are not pro life unless you want to repeal roe v. wade. overturned roe v. wade. as the congressman knows, i am also pro-life. i think that as an extremist view. marco, i think it is the wrong way. one in the punish women and punishing seniors by raising the retirement age, you have not been just drinking the kool-aid. you have been drinking the tea. >> he is misrepresenting my position on social security. but let's talk about the health

care bill. i think the health care bill is a disaster. in the last few weeks, we've learned a lot of the things. policies are being dropped, low- wage part-time workers are losing their coverage, seniors are getting dropped out of medicare advantage, premiums are going to go up. this bill the broken every promise they made went kendrick meat and charlie crist supported it. they said it would not raise premiums on anybody. we now know that that is not triggered a said it would help save medicare. we know that is not true. if this it would lower the cost of health care. now we know that is not true. this bill is a disaster. it cannot be saved. it must be repealed and replaced with common sense ideas that allow individual americans to buy health insurance for many of company in america. across state lines. they're a lot of individuals that have to take the -- same tax incentives that their employer has when their employer by is a bit. bill allows small associations to pull together and provide insurance for their members. these are common sense ideas that will help insure people and

cost a lot less money and would not have the dusters impact that the bill these gentleman supports would have. >> i have voted for it and i would vote for again that i had the option. at this important to pay very close attention to what marco rubio as saying. everything he identified saying that interest payments would go up, copays would go up, individuals be dropped -- that is what the insurance companies did the year ago in the year before that. now they are using the health- care bill as an excuse for things they have already done. the fact that 85% of the medicare goes to make -- patient care, the fact that we have small businesses that are getting a tax cut right now. when you hear more rubio and charlie crist talk about what they like as though they will go in some sort of breakfast bar and pick the raisins out of the raisin bread and see -- say that these to the parts that i like and lead the rest behind, i think everyone has to understand

that this issue here. when you have a family member in the hospital looking up at the ceiling and the insurance company cuts their coverage, the need in that state senator become stand in the cap. charlie? rubio talk about being tough. but i will not take advice from a one that bail out of the republican primary and did not face up to marco rubio. he wants to run the primary all over again. i think it is a board. you have a united states senator that will be for you in times of need. it is important know that both of these candidates are all willing to roll back something that we worked very hard for, to be able to protect every day people against these insurance companies. they want to empower the insurance companies all over again. i am the only one here that understands that 35 -- 35,000 people lose their insurance every week. they talk about going back. they both have insurance.

>> i could talk about what we've done here in florida. we have introduced a plan called cover florida. if you do not have insurance, and many do not, or you're recently lost her job, you can get coverage that would not have been there before. it would cost $700 a month to get interest. after cover florida, we negotiated down to $150 in order to be above get insurance coverage. how did we do it? the government spending, no tax increases. we negotiated costs with insurance companies at the congressman talked about in order to fight for you. that is what we need in a good government official, someone who looks out for you, not for the party first, off pipes for you, and gets a better deal. >> this is another example of what i said in this debate. i'm the only candidate was stand up to washington and the direction they're taking is an offer a clear alternative. it had been in washington, i would not have voted for the bill.

he actually voted for more radical one there was proposed earlier that would have created a public option. one step toward the single payer system. i would never have voted for this bill. all they voted for an alternative that would insure a lot more people and did not turn over the health care insurance -- industry. >> i want you to respond to our ronald reagan quote. ronald reagan called for a leader, more effective government, and that was the right message them. that is a quote from barack obama. did reagan have the right message and then, and why or why not is that the not -- is it the best message now? >> i think is important to note that we did have eight years of administration that both of these gentlemen are fighting to bring back. dick cheney and others with the

trickle-down economics, that cannot help the middle class. the fact is that the middle class families are earning less than they earned since the bush policies have been in place. marco is advocating these policies. this is not a party issue. i think is important to note that when we look at this issue of health care, and a shark that marco rubio would even use the word radical, because you have to look at what is happening in real florida. people do not have insurance. charlie crist sits here and talks about cover florida. it does everything but that. less than 10,000 enrollees, and we have people who did not have insurance right now. they're sitting there is though is as another day at the office. the of a crisis in the state of florida and our country and we need leaders who will stand up for those everyday people who punch in and punch out every day.

i hope that we looked at this from the standpoint of who wants to go to the senate and make it work? i am leading a very safe house seat to run for the senate because i'm frustrated what they filibustering and the things going on in the senate that has this country and a lockdown. i think it is very important that we look at facts versus fiction. we can spin it around all you want to, but it comes down to who has health care insurance and who does not, and it comes down to who is going to expand middle-class opportunities. >> i believe the washington is broken. this reminded about it when i first got into a year-and-a-half ago, house 30 points down the pole in the republican-month did not exactly in doors governor crest. the money is still sitting in his bank account. i am going up there and not to repeat the mistakes of the past but to stand up to the direction of washington is taking us.

and offer a clear alternative. on the health care bill, the facts are clear. the fact that this bill is a disaster that has broken every promises made to the american people. the fact is that on the stimulus bill, it is been a disaster. they borrowed and spent $150,000 for jobs that they claims that they had saved or created. this is a bill that has grown and national debt by $800 billion in our children and grandchildren will work their whole life to pay off, and of jobs have been lost in america. 200,000 jobs lost in florida. this is another example of a simple thing. if you like obamacare and the stimulus plan, you can vote for them. if you want your next u.s. senator to stand up to these things and offer a clear alternative, i am the only one running to do that. >> was talked about that. or rubio talked about when he was running in the republican primary that he really did not get much support and it changed.

things change. i want to explain to the people of florida why i'm running as an independent. he said both parties were to blame. that is why i am running as an independent. my former party said such extreme things that marco rubio has embraced, such as overturning roe v. wade, hurting senior citizens with the social security programs, not reporting -- not supporting public school teachers. that is extreme, that as radical, and that is wrong. and i could not be honest with myself to stay in the party. i happen to be running as an independent. my only allegiance is to you, not party bosses in washington when i get there. only to the people of florida if you're kind enough to send me there. i think that is the kind of leadership that people want. >> mr. rubio, you have called for the extension of the bush tax cuts for those earning more than to under $50,000 in family income.

even though eliminating that tax break for higher income braked would increase our deficit. if that case why are you willing to borrow hundreds of billions of dollars to provide these tax cuts to the wealthiest 3% of americans guard to get let's be clear about a couple of things that you said. the bush tax cuts of the current tax code. what i had done and what a growing number of democrats have said is that it is a bad idea to raise of tax on anyone at this time, especially in an economic downturn but that is not just me saying that. gov. canada and the state. a growing number of colleagues of kendrick me to begin to begin with purpose -- to agree with deposition on this. our debt problem going forward is not because americans are not paying enough taxes. it is because washington cannot control spending. on the rate we're going right now, over the next five years,

this deficit will double and could trigger a downgrade in our bond rating. within 10 years, it could triple. by 2015, our annual deficit could be $2.10 trillion, and $900 billion of that will be interest. that is outrageous. >> thank you for adding that on their -- and we have to do two things at the same time. we have to grow our economy. you create a stable and affordable tax code. that is what the bush tax code does and that is why should be extended. i've advocated rolling that discretionary spending and freezing it. a balanced budget amendment. we have to do both things. they have not done both things. we must do both things because that is the only thing that will work. >> it is important to be paid very close attention to what mr. rubio's saying there. he is willing to give billionaires' and millionaires both have signed up pledge to

give companies a 11 cent jobs overseas a tax break. it's ok for mr. rubio to put on the backs of the middle class additional debt so that their children and grandchildren will have to pay that debt back. the bush tax cuts came about as an insert within the bill almost 18 years ago. it was not something that george w. bush ran on. it was something that just happened. holdingires' for not signs saying please give me a tax cut. they got it. it was a kind of ideology that marco rubio represents, that charlie crist indoors. it's very important to know that there is only one candidate that is sitting. that is willing to stand up for the middle class. once the level that playing field. you walk in the some of these big homes here in florida and throughout the country and

nowhere else and make sure that everything is ok. we're going to stand up and take a responsible role. i am the only candidate here that has voted for pay go rules that will allow us to pick up policy if we going to spend it, we're going to pay for it. >> where you stand on this question of extending the tax cut for the wealthy? >> i supported. i think this is absolutely the wrong time to raise taxes on anybody. i have never voted for a new time. termite entire career. marco rubio earlier in his career devoted to raise property taxes. what we've done in florida is live within our means. we have a constitution that requires us to live within our means. as governor of the state of florida, i reduce the budget by over $7.4 billion. i find in the law as your governor a single tax cut in florida. i understand what it means to veto your marks. i had to do with the speaker rubio.

he said to me in the first budget when i was governor and he was speaker about $500 million in earmarks that i had to veto. that kind of the mark -- earmark expertise that washington embraces, you do not have to send marco rubio to washington. he is already in washington. we need to exercise fiscal discipline, make sure we send someone to washington that appreciates the value of the dollar and are working people that set it on. >> on the question of the earmarks. >> number one, on the issue that he is never raise taxes, he just raise taxes and florida by $2 billion just a year ago. on the issue of your marks, off governor, our budget was leaner than yours both times that i was speaker of the house. as far as congressman meek is concerned, they're raising taxes on s corporation. small businesses like the restaurant i was a last week

with a man said he was not hiring more people until it was sure that washington was not one to raises taxes. many have decided the direction that nancy pelosi in you and others want to take our country is the wrong direction. [unintelligible] >> only 3% of those in that tax bracket are actually creating jobs and i am willing to let that. but if you want to take this back to dick cheney days. you will cause individuals to get tax cuts that we cannot afford and cannot pay for. you want the car keys back. i am going to stand up for the middle class and for the people that are paying a lot of taxes in the state. i think it is very important that we have leaders that are willing to stand up to those individuals in the state and i am guarantying, george, that i am one of those. >> very quickly. the speaker said that he did not put your marks into the budget. are you telling us that you did

not put a hundred thousand dollars in four astrid turf on the football field that you play on? >> not only am i willing to tell you that, but it was verified by independent journalist to said that i had nothing to do with putting that in there. the budget that i propose to speaker spent less money than the budget he proposed as governor. why didn't you sign onto our budgets? >> i had to cut $100 million out of the pork that you sent me. >> our budget did not have that in there. >> we have to move on to the next round. some foreign questions -- some foreign-policy questions you. how you define victory in afghanistan quick remark you agree that president, should begin removing troops next july? >> i think it is very important of the discussion going on right now to try that find some sort of truce between -- the minerals

found by the u.s. military should be commended and should be a part of this discussion. going after osama bin laden is very important. he needs to be captured, till, or what have you. the intelligence we have picked up is very important. but i think the redeployment of our men and women in the middle of next year is pivotal. the question is, the finding victory, killing obama bridget osama bin laden? making sure that we capture all the taliban? it is a very slippery slope. one thing i do know is that we have military families that are here, many military families that live within florida, that need their loved ones back home. no one really thinks about them in this process. as i ran to the united states senate since january 2009, i've encountered a number of military families and i served on the

armed service committee six of my eight years. i talk to these individuals and they are real like reading individuals. they're concerned about walking to the airport. that is what we have to think about when we think about the whole issue of war and how we define responsibility. >> redeployment begins next july, regardless of conditions on the ground. >> i think it is very important of which are looking at that. >> we need to thank and congratulate our troops because he is absolutely right. these of the bravest and by his young men and women that our country have. my brother is with special forces during the vietnam era and we know the strain that was the family through. the war in afghanistan is supremely important we be successful. if this is how it defines itself.

the fine -- providing a level of security on the ground which they will be successful in doing as they commit themselves to doing it. providing all levels security on the ground so that the afghan people can establish themselves as the government and create institutions in civil society work. and the spine what that is a born. we don't afghanistan to become a base for the taliban are in lead terrorists. more frightening is that afghanistan could become a base of operations to destabilize pakistan, a nuclear state. the notion that pakistan could fall into the hands of the taliban-like regime is unacceptable. that is what is critical that we succeed in afghanistan. june we all agree that we have a deep and abiding and opprobrious respect for the people who serve in our military. florida's state that has a significant number of military bases, more than 20 installations. we have a department of veteran affairs and my administration that the four leroy collins was

serving in before it was tragically killed recently. it's important for us to realize what the question being posed is. what is happening in afghanistan. is it being successful? is it appropriate to remove the troops next summer? i think all of us agree that general petreaus is an excellent military leader. i know him personally. if i had the opportunity to get to know him when he was based in tampa. i think was the right move for the president united states to put him in place after general mcchrystal left. it's important that success be defined by security. it is defined by safety. our constitution talk about the duty of government being to ensure domestic tranquillity. we have to make sure the nuclear weaponry does not expand around the world. we have to make sure that does not happen in our brand with a ahmedinejad. he is a madman and our responsibility and duty as an ally israel makes it incumbent us to keep up live on the

situation there. >> is a redeployment begins next july. >> we had the discussion every deployment of the beginning of the first quarter and second quarter of next year. as the gentleman mentioned, security is very important. >> you say reassess at that time. >> the artificial timeline, it undermines our mission. i the enemy knows when you're going to leave. how can you be successful? i do not supported. >> i think it is appropriate for the commander-in-chief to let the american people understand when he wants to achieve the success. if at that time in concert with the discussion and advise and counsel of general petreaus that bill is the right time to come home -- in line >> on general petreaus recommendation. let's move on. judy high-speed rail with leak test debate to one of the biggest markets in the world and create jobs. since you would cut this back to

two years ago, how can you possibly have both or are you willing to tell the people and border right here in right now that if you win, high-speed rail may have to wait crush margins and there's no sort of could programs week and spend money on. nothing is more important dealing with this long-term debt issued. it is simply unsustainable. and that is not just me saying that. that is the president's advisor telling them that this long term debt problem is simply unsustainable. that is the priority over everything else in our country. the national debt is not just a domestic issue. even people like hillary clinton and the leading military commanders in this country has said that the national debt has a national security component. this national debt issue has to be confronted and salt. it is perhaps the predominant issue facing our country. >> at the expense of high-speed rail. >> that is the problem with the decisions that have made in

washington up to this point. they are going to borrow money that we do not have an leave the i know you to our children and grandchildren, something no generation of americans is ever done. if you like the kind of behavior from washington, d.c., if you think washington is in the right direction when it comes to debt spending, then you probably are not going to vote for me. you should vote for congressman meek governor crist. if you want your neck senator to be someone who will stand up and say, this national debt issues the most serious issue that we face of limassol, i am the only one running that is going to do that. >> when you're the governor of a state the size of florida, the fourth largest in the country, and you realize that the economy literally fell off a cliff, you have to strike a balance. that is leadership. when the president came to fort myers, i was proud to go there and welcome him to my state for the first time since he had been

sworn in as president. we needed the funds allocated to keep us from losing jobs. 20,000 educators in our state would not have employment if they had not happened. 60,000 additional floridians tonight may be watching this show who would not have a paycheck coming to their homes. the high-speed rail that you mentioned, we burke -- we worked hard in our administration, three times to get it done. fortunately the third time was the charm. that gave us an additional $1.5 billion that we fought to get back here for floridians to improve our transportation. every time $1 billion is spent on infrastructure, the argument is that it will create 28,000 new jobs for people. it is all about jobs, jobs, jobs. that's called leadership. >> george, i'm glad we're having this debate here tonight. so floridians can see who stands on solid ground.

i think mr. rubio means what he says. the fact that he is willing to make sure that people from tampa to orlando to date and the sit in traffic for the next 20 years. he was to make sure that he stands up on behalf of the right wing ideology, that he stands on. charlie crist stands on the wet paper box in relation to the issues that he stands for. he did not provide the leadership to bring those resources back here. i am the only candidate that actually stood up and voted for the stimulus to make sure that we did not go into a depression, to bring us forward to stop the recession. to stop the depression from taking place. it is very important we understand that high-speed rail will create more than 20,000 jobs in the state. this is where the rubber meets the road. marco rubio just said that he would stand with dick cheney and george demint - he is

willing to stand with them. he is not willing to stand with those construction workers sitting at home right now. he is not willing to take a stand on comprehensive immigration reform that will make sure that individuals that are here on documented, that they no longer take jobs from citizens and residents here in this country. >> this question is for governor crist. we're one of the few states that have a ban on gay adoption. you supported that ban saying that at one point main that you believe traditional mother and bothers should adopt. the appeals court recently found that to be unconstitutional. you called that decision great and you stop enforcing the ban on gay adoption. would you clarify for the butter with your position is on tw of things, gay adoption in florida and the don't ask don't tell policy was a margin this is very important. you're talking about individuals, how they live their

lives. some people in washington on the right want to tell people who they should love and who they should not. this was raised by senator demint, who should be of a teacher children or not based on their sexual persuasion. that is unconscionable. that man, the first guy to endorse more rubio. that is where he came from, that extreme radical right part of a party. what we need is common sense and what is right for the child. when i was saying it was not appropriate to have that adoption, it was because that will allow all of the books of our state. i was the attorney general florida. i understand enforcing the law and respecting it. you are right. when the court change did, they'd change that by district court of appeals. a three-judge panel in an officially tasted and said that was unconstitutional. that is in line with what i talk about when iraq -- ran for governor. i am a live and let live kind of

guy. you want to know where i stand? i'm a fiscal conservative and a social moderate. ira believe in less government and more freedom. even though i am pro-life, i vetoed the bill that would require did alter sam. i understand that we need to live within our means. i may only guy at this table who can do that. >> it's always fun to listen to the governor attack positions he himself held six months ago when he is trying to be the biggest conservative in the world and win the republican primary. the second thing we need to point out is that the governor talks about leadership when he was the governor of the state of florida. everything in florida is worse off than it was quieter years ago when you took over. 800 jobs -- a hundred thousand jobs have been lost since he supported the stimulus. florida was one of the strongest economies in the country now only california and nevada are worse off. you broke your pledge to part raise taxes last year. those of the facts.

and the dramatic choice that we have here in florida. it appears that for every problem that america is facing, the solution that kendrick meek and charlie crist offer is either a government spending program or a tax increase. virtually every problem can be increased by at tax increase or a government program according to them. i do not believe that. if you won a u.s. senator the police that, then you're going to vote for one of them. >> to clarify, i am the only can it is sitting here at this table endorsed by the pro-choice community because i am a pro- choice policymaker. i am the only candidate that stood up for the middle class and will continue to stand up for the middle class. the reason i am going to win this race is the fact that every day if floridians can identify with me. it is mind-boggling for the governor to stand here and do more than the potomac two-step.

he is saying that that george governor wallace to came down on gay adoptions for the state. he stood and fought was inappropriate. when he ran against jim davidson in 2006, he said that jim davis did not have the values that he possessed. that is not in the state statute. that is his opinion. we get a leader that will stand on behalf of the people of the state of florida in their time of need, not when it is politically convenient. marco rubio raised another good point here. the fact that he is willing to go along with the tea party and everyone else on the radical right. >> he just called you governor wallace. take 15 seconds to respond. >> he stood in the schoolhouse door on this issue. >> could i just answer? >> no one fought harder for non

art is in the state and i have. i also rise. [unintelligible] >> you stood firm on the issue of gay adoption and now you want to be the big cheerleader. >> if you want someone on the far right, marco rubio. someone on the far left, kendrick meet. >> we could go on all night but we have to live there. thank you all very much. it was a stimulating debate. weigh in on what you saw tonight abc.com. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> campaign coverage and tinges tomorrow night with campaign debates in ohio, nevada, and georgia. president obama appears at a political rally for maryland governor martin o'malley. live coverage begins at 8:00

p.m. eastern on c-span. the confined more on all of this year's political campaigns by visiting our politics website. you'll find campaign debates, profiles of key races, and campaign had videos. it is all at c-span.org /politics. up next on c-span, an update on this year's congressional races with "hill"'s bob cusack. then a look at a house race in pennsylvania seventh district. later, tonight's debate between candidates for delaware's at large house seat. >> despite the uprising in a state crackdown that followed last year's iranian elections, many influential and the liberal iranians real -- still believe in an islamic republic. the complexities of modern iran in "the ayatollah's democracy."

get the complete schedule at our website. it in the supreme court has started its new term. you can learn more about the nation's highest court with c- span said the latest book, "the supreme court." candid discussions with current and retired judges. reveal a unique insight about the court available in hard cover where a review by books and also as an e-book. we recently sat down with the managing editor of " the hill" newspaper to talk about midterm elections in the house. this is 40 minutes. >> "washington journal" continues. if >> we have the managing editor of "the hill" newspaper here to talk about this poll out this week this is challenges ahead in 11 of the 12 races. this could determine who controls the house. why? guest: we partnered with anga and a respected pollster in

washington, d.c., because there's not a lot of reliable house polling. there's a lot of senate polling. the house polling is internal, which is never released publicly. so we did the first of a series of four. the first thing we did was a freshman. democratic freshmen who came in with democratic -- president obama. the good news for republicans is that they are up by 11 of the 12 races. the good news for democrats is in seven of the well, they're within the margin of error. some democrats and not doing great, and some are still in the ballpark. if democrats can see some momentum, the can retain control of the house. host: what kind of districts to these 12 members represent? guest: a combination ranging from virginia to ohio to illinois. these are battleground districts, districts that democrats and republicans are vying for.

basically, these are the freshmen that came in on the wave, and republicans want to wave them away this year. and several of the lamb, john mccain one. so these are conseative- leaning districts. especially on health care. some democrats who voted yes on health care, that has hurt them. some of them have had, three of the 12 that we surveyed, voted in no on health care. those democrats are in decent shape. host: let's dig into the specif races. let's begin with debbie halverson. guest: she voted for health care. she is down 18 points to a conservative candidate. this is in illinois, and she's having trouble. as far as all the 12 we look at, she is in the most trouble. down 18. if you look at the undecided voters, even if she wins those, she will not pull through.

there's a lot of time before november 2. maybe she can come back, but it looks unlikely. host: on the front page of the "new york times" there is a story about has president obama will be pushing his base to get back out there, especially the younger voters who voted for him and helped him get the presidency. he will do an mtv appearance. he is going to be trying to get this base out and they put aside your hard feelings and come out and vote. pretty much admitting that the independents are gone. but trying to get the base going. is that enough for a person like debbie? can she when which is the base and no independents? guest: the midterm is really just about the base. for presidential elections, a lot of people vote. in midterms, not as manyf the republican base, for the first time since 2004, as fire up.

and they're going to show up. the question is, will the democratic base show up? th have been divided. robert gibbs calling it the professional left, and liberals of said that they did not get a public option 9 health care. and joe biden sent to the liberals to stop whining. and realizing what is coming if we do not win this november. joe biden said it -- says if we lose control of the house, it will be the end of the road for the white house agenda. so this could be a tea party congress. but in debbie's case, basically that is a conservative-leaning district. so there is not a huge a beral base. so that strategy for her will be different from what the president's strategy will be. host: what is she doing over the next couple weeks? was sort of outside gros are as the personalities can she depend on or the republicans, in this case, depend on in ord to win? guest: you will certainly not see president obama going into

your district. she was about local issues. these democrats who are struggling, they're not going to be talking about health care reform. they may be talking about wall street reform, but the health care reform bill is not going to be addressed. stimulus could be addressed to some degree. but they will try to make this more a local issue. and we have also seen at democrats on the attack. democrats have gone after republican candidates in that effort to say this out a referendum on president obama. this is a choice. unlike the other candidate. look at the incuent and decide which is better. did not just votegainst your congressional candidate because or upset president obama. host: what is happening in maryland's first district? guest: frank is there and he is one of the ones who voted no on the health care. he beat andy harris a couple years ago. frank has a very strong ground game.

it is a strong district. he has to display his independence. it is a far drive from washington, but he goes home every weekend. that is a very close race. that is one of the races that republics really need to win if they're going to when the house. it is such a republican district. the democrat is vulnerable, but he can say i voted in no on health car and easily done by a few points. it looks like it is helping him. host: is it a really conservative district or sort o a moderate republican district? guest: that what is more conservative. but critics say that andy harris was too conseative to the district, and he knocked off a longtime incumbent in the republican primary a couple years ago, who ended up supporting the democrats in the last election. the republican party was divided. they're not as divided in that district this time around. and harris is now up a little

bit. that is a positive sign. when you talk about things, it has shifted so much. so harris lost last time to the democrat, so there's only so much he cano. when the wave comes, it wipes out people. democrats are trying to minimize the damage, trying to save some people like that democrat who are close. as some point, there will have to make the decision, the democratic congressional campaign committee, and ere they're going to invest in seven races. if certain democrats are down big in their internal polling -- you put resources were you can win races. they do not want to lose the 39 seats republicans need. host: you said when a wave comes, it wipes you o. there's not much you can do. looking at the 12 races on the front page of your newspaper this morning, is that the case with this type of district --

any election, it does not matter. this is the type of district that can get wiped out by a wave. guest: that is right. when you look back to 2004, you had the predential election of course with george bush and john kerry. there was also the districting process. if you were an incumbent in 2004, you had a lot of job security. since then, volatile times. to thousand six, democrats picked up 30 house seats. 2008, they picked up another 24. now republicans lookike they will pick up dozens of seats, wiping those guys away. when i talk about health care votes, some of these guys did vote in know. it that might help. but some of these guys who voted in know are going to lose. -- who voted in know how -- host: let's go to new mexico's second district.

pearce is a name that long time c-span viewers may know. the unspoken on the floor when he ran before. guest: now he is trying to win back his old house seat. this is interesting because pierce got into the race after teague voted for climate change. soon after that, he said i am in. now teague is down by four points. he ended up voting in no on health care. this is one of those races where these are former members. so it is tough to run as an outsider or maybe someone who ran the last time. the newcomers are doing better than the longtime incumbents and this is you have seen before. experience really does not matter this time around. basically, that is a close race. pierce is up. you can look to these races and divert ways. republicans are doing well, but they're not doing great. they're not winning in a lot of

these reasons by double digits. but it is still very hard to knock off incumbents in congress. it is very difficult. the fact that they have a leave now, more people are focused on the, and undecided voters usually goith the wave. that is a good sign for the gop. host: what you see as far as money being pumped in to the district? guest: that is one or both parties will invest heavily in teague and pearce. they will get a ton of mey. you'll see people like karl rove and others playing a major role. democrats are crying foul with that group, complaining to the irs about how they're doing their business. everything from campaign ads to campaign tactics to anything, it is anything goes now. it all comes down to winning. we have seen a numr of places ge extremely ugly, and it will only get worse. host: we're talking to bob from

the "hill close quaid newspaper about their front-page story. unions the steering funds to liberal allies cannot these types of democrats we're talking about that are in trouble. they're not seeing money from typical democratic groups. does that hurt their chances? guest: it does. someone who is upset with that type of story is rahm emanuel, who used to have the house democratic campaign committee. he has said committee to back these conservative democrats because if you do not, we' going to lose the house. and we're going to have a republican speaker. so unions are still smarting from some of those no votes. and the committee has tried to work with some of the groups to say that the bill is passed so let's get over it. unions, even though it did not have a public option, that bill -- still, this is our the left is divided.

they're upset about certain votes it did not get done. the congressional agenda will be very different next year, no matter who is controlling the house. regardless, there will be a lot more republicans on capitol hill. host: rep -- richmond va on the phone. i will put you on hold. let's go to jerry, republican line in rogers, arkansas. are you with us? caller: hello. i have a comment. first of all, the democrats, with the top democrat being obama, they have not than anything to help this country whatsoever. they have brought it down. i am is a disabled vet, and i tell you what, i cannot stand to see what is happening here to our country. i really believe that not only do we need to get rid of the crooks uphere, which are the

democrats right now, but i do believe what the republicans get in, i think maybe we should start impeachment against the top dogs. what do you think? guest: there is definitely a lot of danger there. we found that this is clearly a national election. most voters, two outf three, will have president obama on their mind. some who are not fans of the president, and some who are fans of the president. but certainly, the republican base was to send a message to the white house that they do not like how this administration has done its business. congressional republicans who were smarting after the 2008 elections, and president obama told him i won. congressional republicans want to say after this election, we won. host: democratic line. caller: good morning. i really do not understand your view on the the polling.

i have a few things i would like you to jot down. the 99'ers, the people of of work for more than 99 weeks. then we have the choice group of people. these two groups of people are white voters. and then we put in gays and lesbians. there's another aspect. a large chunk of america, they are white voters. and then we have african- americans. we have hispanics. and now the muslims. i just picked up seven chunks of the country were the republicans have angered them. republicans voted no on everything. i do not understand -- who are

you polling saying that the republicans are leading? ho: we will leave it there. let me show you the front page of the "new york times." it says, latino turnout expected to lag in the midterm vote, and it is a setback for democrats. guest: our polling focuses on battleground districts, and there are a lot of liberal districts like nancy pelosi's districts where she will win. talking about the latino voters, immigration reform is something that president obama promised to do in the 2009. he pushed that back to 2010. the administrati did not make a real big push for immigration, comprehensive immigration reform. they did make a last-ditch effort for a scaled-down bill, the dream act, and that did not succeed. latino voters are not pleased about that. and congresan you're pushing

for immigration reform are not pleased to back a dime. host: the america's national gas alliance was at part of the poll. the first one out today looking at freshman incumbents, democrats, and those in trouble. about 12. about two-thirds of voters-these key battleground districts will be thinking about president obama when they choose the next member of congress. guest: it means no matter where democrats are doing, looking at the congressmen and congresswomen from the district, that they're going to be talking about local issues. but national issues, whether it be the stimulus, climate change, health care reform, those are the issues that people are thinking about. the economy, jobs, deficit. whether it is anger over those bills or the fact that democrats over promised on the stimulus --

they said unemployment will be lower than 8%. now it is at 9.6%. the president has said, listen, he knows it is tough out there, but the made a little t of progress and do not want to go backward. host: there is a longtime democrat. would he not be biased? guest:mark penn is a respected pollster, and he has been respected and employed by a lot of different firms in washington, d.c. one of the things when deciding this, we wanted to do actual phone calls. you get a lot of polling that is unreliable. when we did our research, we found that mark penn is one of the bus posters. the finngs he has come up with are not exactly democratic- friendly. we knew there would be criticism, but we're confident in his polling. host: a