x tonight, the second of a two- part series. later, british prime minister david kamenetz remarks and his conservative party's conference. .- david cameron's remarks . .

what happened was tom paine during the french revolution was imprisoned, and he thought washington did not make sufficient efforts to free him he was an honorary american citizen, so he thought washington should have done more. he goes from one extreme to the other. good >> how important was he to the founding? >> i think it is extraordinarily important. at the time he published "common sense," there were a lot of people who had not been converted.

the essay, these are the man -- the times that try men's souls, i am for getting it -- these were very inspirational words at a time because needed it, and washington felt that "common sense" have a profound impact in terms of convincing them of the need for total independence. >> when you read about the founders, you see so many broke, and a guy like tom paine comes back to the states, and what happened with all these

founders? >> washington at the end of the revolution metes tom paine, and tom paine felt he had not been properly rewarded for his goal. washington does lobby on his behalf. there are a lot of people who were forgotten. washington is completely blindsided by the treachery. they had shown extraordinary bravery. he was limping around. he had become crippled from his war wounds, so he is not somebody you would have expected to turn traitor, and washington was probably more shocked by the exposure of the treasury than anything that happened during the

revolutionary war. good >> what is the story? >> he felt other people had been promoted in preference to ahern -- him. had been accused of corruption and was found guilty on a couple of minor things. the two of them began to collaborate. hour maneuver was to become the head of west point. he sells the secrets to the british, and as far as i know, the british made good on their end of the deal. >> what happened at the end? where did they end up? >> he end of fighting against

lafayette' and other generals. >> the revolutionary war started when and ended when? >> the war starts in april, 1775, at lexington and concord. on november 25, 1783, evacuation day used to be celebrated by george washington and gov. george clinton. as they are riding south in the city, the british are leaving on ships, and washington is greeted by delirious crowd. washington submits his

resignation in december, 1783. that was in many ways considered the most important act washington ever took. the artist said general washington was planning on resigning and going back to mount vernon, and george iii said if he does that, he will be the greatest man in the world. >> leading up to the revolutionary war, how visible was he? >> in the early stages, people keep blaming the ministry of lord north. they still feel he is the father

and protector, and this is the sentiment in washington shared. >> at the beginning, where was that? >> he attended the second continental congress, and one reason washington was so successful, he had long political experience. he had been serving since 1758. he had been involved in the stamp act, opposing the intolerable acts later, so this was a man who was well-versed in parliamentary government by the time he was in a position of responsibility.

>> why do people want to follow him? >> when he is chosen, people were happy that he was a good listener. there was a tremendous fear that he would become puffed up with his own power, and combined with a large degree of self- confidence. >> how many? >> i do not know the exact figure. it varies so much. washington said the bane of his life was that never had there

been an army disbanded at the end of the year that had to be reconstituted, so at various times he had 2000 or 3000 men under his command. there were altogether 25,000 americans died died in the revolutionary war, which sounds small compared to the civil war, but the possibility was only 3 million. that was a significant number of fatalities given the population at the time. >> how are you able to go back and check what happened during the revolutionary war? >> washington took tremendous care of his correspondents. we were talking about his personal guard, how strange that he did that during the middle of the revolutionary.

he gets congress to give him a special appropriation to create a secretarial staff that did nothing but create fair copies, clean copies of his correspondence, so washington's papers are a fantastic source of information about the different battles, and you get letters and diaries, newspaper accounts. there were a lot of people. >> did he know the generals on the other side? >> as you go back to the french and indian war, we find george washington not only fighting along signed -- alongside her ratio gates, but you also find thomas gage, who then becomes the first british commander at

the beginning, the time of lexington and concord, so washington had known for many years. there were quite a number of personalities who were new to heim. >> who decided he should be the commander in chief? >> the continental congress appointed him by a unanimous vote. it was the first of four significant votes. he was unanimously appointed president of the continental commission, and both times he ran for president, he was unanimously elected by the electoral college, so that is a record we can safely say no one will ever duplicate. >> how obvious was it when you were doing your research that he was the choice for office -- for

this? >> i do not think he had a lot of competition. the continental army was the militiamen gathered in cambridge. washington had been very involved in protesting the stamp act. washington had been an active member of the first and second continental congress. he was one of the few people who had military experience at the time. we all know the story that he wore his uniform, so even though there had been many years since washington had been in his 20's that he fought in the french indian war, that counted quite heavily, at the time there was a severe shortage of people with experience. the only other people who had

comparable experience would have been horatio gates or charles lee. charles lee was a very eccentric and a difficult personality. ditto for her ratio gates. washington wins the contest by default -- ditto for horatio gates. there was a tenacity to this man. if you gave him a job to do, he was relentless in pursuing it, and he certainly did it. >> what were your relationships among the colonies then, and is there any residual after all these years? >> remember john adams. we were talking about how envious he was of washington.

john adams wrote a hilarious letter in terms of why washington was appointed, and washington was tall. he had the gift of silence. he did not make mistakes by alienating people and saying the wrong thing. some of the stuff was true, the washington looked for. the comments were fractured throughout the contest. washington's greatness as a general, most generals their greatness is what they do in the battlefield. when he did was between battles, holding the continental government together. we tend to think of valley forge as the nadir of the continental army. they are shivering and starving.

this was an army that was constantly short of men, money, blankets, shoes, and gunpowder, and george washington had to not only hold this army together, but he had to be a brilliant politician in dealing not only with the congress but in 13 separate states, and washington story -- he got precious little cooperation from all lot of the states. the correspondence was one of complaints and grievances that no one was helping him out. >> what about the pay for the soldiers? >> congress was constantly in arrears on paying people, to the point that at the end of the

revolution, there was mutiny with the officers. there was such a shortage of money, a major problem washington had was they would pay them bounties. they would give them money. they would promise of land, and then the states began to compete they would get a bounty, then they would come back. money permeates whole thing. there was a constant shortage of money. >> why? >> this was important to the full with the gulf region political philosophy. there was no executive branch. there is really just the legislature, the congress. congress could request the

states give the money. the states competed to see who could give the least money, but congress did not have an independent revenue source. this was the beginning of the nationalistic philosophy. it needs to have taxing powers, and washington's policies as president are direct outgrowth of his frustrations during the revolutionary war. and >> we hear a lot of these names today and almost nothing about the john hancock building in washington. clearly he meant more than a building named after him. what did he do? >> he was the president of congress at the time.

haddam said, he nominated george washington. -- adams said, he nominated george washington. what would the founders have thought about this? the founders fought like cats and dogs. the founders were very competitive. they had different political philosophies, but to lump them

in this mass as if they thought the same, completely misrepresents what happened. >> what was george washington's philosophy? did most people agree with him? >> what he wanted was independence from england? exactly what form it would take was postponed. in terms of his military strategy, washington recognizes that he lacks seapower. he is against arguably the greatest navy in the world. they can rapidly moved up and down the eastern seaboard.

it becomes a war of attrition, an opportunistic war were washington tries to ebay the british, -- evade the british. it is one of the difficulties of writing a biography of george washington, that there are large stretches where in terms of battles, nothing is happening to reagan what happens later in the war is that the warships to the south. it is pretty much a distant spectator in the north. only when the french alliances started in 1778 that american

land power combined with french seapower and french army finally battle in yorktown, and that becomes the climactic battle. >> why did the french come in? >> they came in to harass the british, pure and simple. john adams had a wonderful image that they were keeping their head above water. they would keep the water -- the head out of the waters of the they would not drown but not so much that they could survive. that was the french attitude. i guess you could say they lived to regret it because so many of the french officers with the

ideals of the american revolution, they went back to france and became leading figures in the french revolution. >> if you live in washington, you cross from virginia to d.c., you also have a road and fairfax county and all these names, and lafayette's portrait is in the house of representatives. the french. >> he was a french general. he was a difficult character. he humored washington while pursuing his own strategy. the french made it seem as if washington was the commander of the american and french army,

but that was something of a fiction. you can see he was the head of the french army, that they are pretty much carrying their own strategy, the washington comes belatedly along with. the french were indispensable, not only in terms of having that navy that traps and surrounds cornwallis, but it was an old- fashioned european siege were you are building trenches and the parallels keep getting closer to the enemy, and that was the work of french engineers. we need also a french military know-how. >> 900 pages. we talked about how you broke down the different sections.

how long did it take you before you began writing the book? >> i do the research before i start writing it. i spent six weeks. i did not write a word until i spend at least four years. i like to know what i am going to say before i sit down and start writing. >> the you follow chronologically? >> i knew it was going to be a long boat. -- book i break it down to 67 chapters, which gives the sense of forward motion. each of those is broken down to three or four different scenes. if proceeds more or less chronologically, and i hope has a kaleidoscopic property, and i tried to give it a fast pacing,

because i felt washington was a man of action. it is wall-to-wall adventure, and i felt the boat should have some of the excitement of washington's life. there is not a dull moment in the story. >> when we talk about another of your books, you said you had a normal day. you began running at 9:00 in the morning. is there anything about that change? >> i do not we usually work more than five for six hours. i find if i work fewer hours i have more concentration. i do not spend a lot of time schmoozing on the telephone.

this was very rigorous. i think if you are doing such a long project and writing such a large boat, you have to pace yourself to do it, and one of the secret is not to write yourself out of the end of the state -- of the day. >> what is the situation with your editor? >> and and i would meet periodically for lunch. she always had good ideas. she is not only a wonderful editor but a wonderful publisher. she said, we have to have a cover that shows washington on the white horse. you make much of how he looked majestic on a white horse and the political theater he had, so i found this painting rembrandt did of washington on a white

horse, and n was right about it, because i think what we wanted -- when people think of george washington, they think of gilbert stuart george washington. that was not the one that excited his contemporaries. it was a useful dynamic. i think that was captured in the painting were you could see how athletic and magnificent he was. >> there is a scene where you have five around him at one time. explain that. >> he was good friends with a great portrait painter who operated the natural history

museum. he had a teenage son, rembrandt peale, who asked to paint washington during his second term. >> when he was 17? >> when he was 17. rembrandt peale said he was so nervous he thought he could not mix his paints. he contacted his father and said, would you mind during the portrait at the same time, so if i vogel it, at least we will have your picture -- if i mess it up, at least we will have your picture. he got his brother to join, and there were all these children.

-- it was quite funny because washington had always expressed a lot of discomfort. he learned to not only tolerated but to love it. >> we are back to anne, who was at random house before she got to penguin. >> that is right. >> when you decided it was going to be george washington, did you know it was going to be an 900- page book at that point?

>> i did alexander hamilton, and that was an 1800 page botook. washington had -- that was an 800 page book. washington had a longer life. we all knew it was going to be a long boat. we ought -- long book. they were largely out of print. the most difficult thing is to do the one volume biography. there were various places i said, this could shorten the book. there is always another book that will come along and add

things to it. i wanted every significant event that you could go to the index and not only enjoy it as a third read but use it as a standard reference, so there were various episodes, but this was an important moment, and i thought it should be there. >> when you write a book like this, the use of myth chapters before you are finished to penguin, and -- do you send chapters before they're finished to penguin? >> i felt here are not only wanted and to see the pacing, but i wanted her to see the proportions.

there is so much ground to cover. how are you going to allocate the space? >> the penguin people put out promotion on this. i am going to see how you feel about it. >> remember, his father dies when george's 11. we have maybe one or two sentences where he talks about his father, but he seems to have gotten along with his father better than his mother. there was a lot of financial stringency. washington is always very tense about the subject of money. it is a moment of great accomplishment. >> they say they are going to focus on the precocious fifi in

the french and indian war. >> washington was a prodigy. by the time he is 23 years old, he is the head of the virginia regiment. it is really outstanding. >> it was the biggest colony. >> we associate washington with the revolutionary war. >> heroic exploits with the continental army. >> we cannot shortchange that. >> is presiding over the constitutional convention. >> that is important. he is reluctantly drawn to the convention, but his position is absolutely vital for a couple of reasons. the constitutional convention is

conducted behind closed doors, so in order to convince the public that some nefarious plot is not being conducted, the public is reassured by the presence of george washington. the other thing that is very important in terms of the riding of the constitution is given the fact that we could thwart a revolution, article 2, which details the powers of the presidency, is the most difficult part to write, because they kept fearing executive abuses of power. everyone knew if you wanted it, george washington would be the first president. i think they were emboldened because they imagines george washington holding the office,

and they were well-and five is. -- well-advised. >> it talks about his magnificent performance of america's first president. >> washington really forges the office of the president. there is no mention in the constitution of a cabinet as a reference to reports from departmental heads. washington creates the first cabinet. he chooses alexander hamilton. he establishes a very high benchmark for talent and integrity.

and the framers of the constitution devoted article one to the congress, because that was the people's house, and they expected that to be the most important. washington fears that it is to on wielding -- too unwielding. we take this for granted, but it was not the intention to have the powerful and executive, so washington creates the office we have today. it goes a long way. a brilliant choice for the first chief justice. george washington supports -- a

0.11 supreme court justices -- appoints 11 supreme court justices, more than any other president. he does not specify the number of justices so the first court has six. they all breeze through in 48 hours, which seems, call now. to get one through the process of many weeks and many months. washington said he provided painstaking effort to the appointment of judges more than anything else he did. >> did he appoint john marshall? >> he was appointed by john adams.

>marshall was a friend of adams. when marshall becomes chief justice, it was obviously adams, because they felt there was an entrenched federal court. when john marshall was chief justice, marshall was very good friends with an associate justice. bushrod had control of the papers, and john marshall not only writes the first authorized biography of five volumes, he writes it while he is chief justice. it is an immense piece of work. >> complex behavior as a slave master is part of the promotion, and you know at mount

vernon they change the language. how many slaves did he and his wife have at the height? >> it was important not on a day-to-day basis but because in his will, washington does something no other founder does. he frees the other 2500 slaves. the others were brought to the marriage by martha. washington could not legally a emancipates those slaves. >> you see where he calls the slaves riffraff. >> washington was frustrated as a slave holder. he always talks about done as if

they -- talks about them as if they were salaried and why can he get a day's work in return. he cannot understand the flav have no rational reason for performing well. -- understand that slaves have no rational reason for performing well. he feels the slaves will not cooperate, because the slaves have no reason to cooperate. if you are a slave, the best response is to be passive aggressive. there is nothing in it for you by performing with maximum intensity. >> did all the founders have money or land? >> certainly in virginia, they often have more land than money.

they were all in debt. they were in debt to their british backers in london, and this was no small source of resentment against the british that they felt they were in hock to their british agents. >> how many were in their favor as land owners and white males? >> the suffrage is restricted to a very small group of white property owners. this is not an egalitarian world at all. >> why do we keep talking about them as such great people? >> they established the principles of a more equitable society. we have been nourished by the principals. that has been my deal, that we have strived, and a lot of the

principles they annunciated, even if not carried into effect, it had an inspiration on american history. and jefferson was a large slaveholder and did not always practice what he preached, but what he preached, he preached well. >> if you put a copy of this book of yours in the hands of all 535 members of congress and they sat down and read it all, what do you want them to take from this that might change the way they are doing things today? a lot of what i read seems like it is happening today. >> one thing i loved about george washington is washington always challenge people to match of to his high standards. it is interesting. he is not flat during the

american people. he is challenging the american people. i hope people will see that george washington is always somebody who stuck to his principles. he never confused leadership with the popularity contest. if people respect you in the long run, they will not only respect you but love you as well. he had a vision of american greatness but not simply a vision of america being strong, rich, and powerful. he saw the country as an honorable country, so from the time he is commander in chief, he is trying to mold the character of the country as well as the strength.

his general orders, he is always telling them, do not swear, do not treat. -- drink. respect human rights, respect property. he had such respect for property owners that a valley forge if you were caught stealing, you would be tied to a tree and whipped for doing it. he was concerned with humane treatment of prisoners. you see the ethical concerns permeated. i think washington felt if things were grounded in ethics, politics would take care of themselves. you do not see him pandering to different people. >> what these things you would

not like about him if you knew him? >> anytime he was dealing with money in business situations, washington could be quite acerbic. he was a very difficult person to deal with in a business situation. i take a benevolent -- he was said to be a benevolent slave master. they say he honored save marriages, slave families, that he made sure they got gave medical treatment. he was intent on extracting profit. i have won passage were after

the revolutionary war, it is too cold to go riding. he is checking with his overseers to make sure they are out in the field. it is quite brutal work, and you want to say, if you cannot go outside, is it fair to expect the slaves to do this labor? >> these are always difficult answers. if he were here today and looked at the country based on what he wanted to happen, what would he like? what would he not like? >> i think he would be surprised things are not as partisan as they would become, because he

was subjected to that himself. things could be very nasty, so that would not surprise him. i think beckons the founding era, there was of resilience to the level of discussion. this was coming out of their own political views. we have a lot of fine public service, but the caliber is lower than it was. it would disturb him to see people pandering to lobbyists. the politics derive from your personal passions.

back in the 18th century, public service was honorable. our best minds went into public service. there are so many disincentives now. also, people keep denigrating the government. if you keep telling people government is terrible, you are not going to get the best people going into politics, and i do not think you will get the best minds. it would be wonderful to try to revive the public service we had in the early days of the country. >> how much of that was the man wanting to keep their property?

you had those four soldiers with no blankets or shoes with no food or money or anything. the generals are back in the shack with the fire going. how do you explain that? >> washington believes in leadership by example. he was often the most conspicuous target. oalso, when they got to valley forge, washington lived in the tent. they started building these hives, but he wanted to show the man he was sharing their suffering, -- building these huts, but he wanted to show the men he was sharing their suffering.

he was living very modestly for a general. >> the book says george washington remained a lifeless waxwork for many americans. what have you done that may take a little of that away? >> what i have tried to do is recreate the very charismatic antod dynamic figure from the early days. i have tried to use every device i know to bring him to life. i want him to be vivid and immediate so every time washington is tainted by somebody, i'd describe the pain thing so you can feel it -- described the painting so you

could feel it. i have hundreds of and it serves from people who met -- hundreds of anecdotes from people who met him. the description is very important. i want people to see washington throughout. >> you have won the $50,000 reward. what are you going to do now? >> it is funny. when i got that, i had already published hamilton, and i kind of chuckled when i got the award. the difficulty of creating a long biography like this is that the plight is to scale mount

everest, and you look around and say, are there any peaks as high as this? i guess we will find out if there is life after washington. >> a couple of questions about your own life. where were you born? >> i am a child of the outer boroughs of new york. >> we talked about your discussion on the book on jpmorgan and hamilton. are you thinking about the next one? >> i am. i am feeling like having toiled in the 18th century for more than a decade that i think i might like to return to the

20th-century and. >> like what? >> washington is such a tough i to follow, because i think i should look of the figure of washington's stature. >> what do you think of our country today? >> i feel we are very much a draft. -- adrift. i feel we are stalled at the moment. we had not just a vision of american power and riches but division of american morality -- vision of american morality. washington had a mystical faith

in the public. even though he was always optimistic about the country in the long run, he was frequently pessimistic in the short run. i keep reminding myself about that because washington felt the american public would often be misled for a brief time, but in the long run things would come out all right. i hope his face is borne out. -- faith is borne out. >> how many cities are you going to visit. >> about 10. people will be asking me questions, and not only will i learn things from their reactions about how washington is perceived and even things

maybe i did not know, but it pulls a lot of things i wish i had known about when writing the book. it will elicit different things from me that i had not realized before, so it is very exhausting. it can be very educational. i sat in a room for six years, and we were talking about the state of the country. i think if you wanted to eavesdrop on the american psyche, there is no better way to do it than to think of george washington. >> what is the hardest part of a book like this? >> i think it is to amass the sheer amount of material written about washington and mastering the basic facts. once you master the facts, you have to synthesize it.

you have to craft it into a narrative. it is a very hard subject to do. >> did you have somebody check your facts? >> i had different scholars who reviewed parts of its. i felt this had to be impeccable. i did extraordinary fact checking on my own. >> we thank you very much. >> it has been a pleasure. thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> for a dvd copy of this program, call. for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at our

website. "q&a" programs are also available as c-span podcast. >> next, british prime minister david cameron speakes said the conservative party conference. the president obama and vice president biden campaign in pennsylvania. after that, another chance to see "q&a." tomorrow on "washington journal," we discuss the condition of u.s. cities as a result of the economic downturn. we talk about u.s. monetary policy and the impact of devaluing the dollar.

also the impact of a 10-year drought on the u.s. southwest. >> what are people watching on the c-span video library? you might be surprised. click on most watch to see the most popular events covered. watch what you want, when you want. >> the british prime minister and conservative party leader david cameron defended the position to cut public spending to reduce the deficit. the chancellor of the exchequer will release the details of the spending cuts in his budget report on october 20. other topics include withdrawing combat troops by 2015 and forming a coalition government with liberal

democrats. prime minister cameron defeated gordon brown, who stepped down when the party lost the general alexian. this is just over an hour. [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, i have waited 13 years to say this that i am about to say. please welcome, along with our leaders in the scottish parliament and the welsh assembly, my fellow members of the cabinet. [applause]