whereas a few years ago we were looking toward some of the higher imports. there is a seven increase in domestic production, which has tended to lower that need or demand for imports relative to what we saw what happened. in terms of the quest that has been a lot return to the neck. in terms this will depend on spreads in the u.s. against other parts globally. the spreads have tended not to support increased lng imports due to a fairly low domestic prices. there has been a significant increase in lng supply. that supply has to go somewhere.

there will be some amount of supply that will come through the u.s.. we have significant increased capacity which is heavily underutilized. we expect there is some uncertainty in terms of how much lng will come. >> are you concerned about [inaudible] >> ethanol supplies in terms of the general dynamics have been increasing substantially over the last several years. one of the conservatives -- concerns is what do you -- how do you deploy and put into the marketplace would have been historically ample ethanol supplies? we have had a renewable fuel

which has been increasing the amount of fat that all that needs to be supplied into the transportation system which has started to push the limits of conventional lending. from that point of view, there is a question of how one puts additional supply into the fuel mix. you are raising a shorter-term dynamic in terms of something that might lower supply. i have not heard a huge concern for this. i think the trend is how do you blend more ethanol into other fuels or e85. largerheard we might see drug conditions across the southwest. what are issues in hydraulic fracturing? do you see that possibly slowing

down? >> we have not detected significant barriers to shale gas development due to water. this is quantity or quality concerns. this is a concern that in the public, the epa is doing a study on various aspects, issues related to hydraulic fracturing. we have not detected that being a significant inhibitor to shale gas development. >> thank you. i have a question about what are some of your major revisions in

price forecasts you have had to make this year? next year -- has crude-oil in the areas where you have had to make the most adjustment? >> we have made some adjustments in crude-oil. this has been due to changing expectations about recovery in the global economy. a bigger area is natural gas prices. against crude oil prices which have stayed lower than we had expected that would stay. there has been more adjustment in terms of natural gas prices and that would be moderating them at a lower level. this is an issue which is tied to the rapid development of shale gas in the u.s., which is a story that has been unfolding

over the last several years. entering into our short-term price and expand into our long- term projections which have been changing each year as a result of the unfolding developments in shale gas. >> in the short term energy outlook, eia is projecting a bigger cut in the gulf of mexcio ico supply and was wondering how much was attributed to the drilling moratorium and with it being lifted earlier, how would that affect oil output going forward? >> any change from last month's forecast to this month's forecast in terms of offshore oil production is not attributable to a change in our outlook with regard to issues

related to the moratorium. the estimates we have done in terms of the effect of the moratorium which was scheduled to end november 30 but has been lifted as of yesterday, we have estimated a 31,000 barrels per day decline in oil production offshore in the last quarter of this year and 82,000 barrels per day on average for 2011. we're not expecting that to change significantly as a result of the announcement yesterday. while the moratorium has come off sooner than was planned, there is going to be the meeting of additional safety requirements and permit requirements and other things that the department of interior has laid out. which will take some time for different companies to comply. how long it will take to comply and how fast permits will be issued by the department of interior at this point, that

will reveal itself over the next several months. their plan is to start issuing permits by the end of the year. if you have some companies that are basically ready, we would expect them to come first and other companies for some it may take longer to demonstrate they have met standards, they could be delayed. our current estimates still stand. we will be watching this closely over the next several months. >> good morning. my question deals more with next winter perhaps rather than this winter. with so many northeastern states switching to an ultra low sulphur diesel in a market that has been a high sulphur market for 100 years or whatever, is their role for the eia to provide guidance?

if refineries -- you have desulfurization, is there input quality to get it there when it is needed, not coming around from the gulf coast. is there adequate supply lines to meet peak winter demand when on those months when the northeast needs 500,000 barrels a day of distillate. has the eia been asked to provide guidance to the northern states to make sure they're not [unintelligible] >> i am not aware of the specific request. if it is of the nature of providing a policy recommendation to the states on what types of standards they should adopt, i could say we would not be involved in that because our role is not to guide policy but -- it is to

understand the effects of policy changes on the marketplace. there is -- we do something called this week in petroleum. several weeks back, i could get you the details. it focused on low-sulfur diesel requirements at the state level and what potential effects could be in the marketplace. we are tracking that. i do not know whether the office of electricity and energy delivery and reliability is -- that is something they're focused on. we are tracking that. it is an important dynamic in the industry. >> do you know if there is a policy proposal to switch over the northeast heating oil reserves from the high sulphur to an ultra-low sulphur product within the next year or so? >> i am not aware of any. that does not mean there is or is not one. no other questions,

thank you. i appreciate the time. [applause] >> the midterm elections on november 2. each night we are showing debates from key races around the country. here's our lineup. at 7:45 p.m. eastern, the candidates for ohio's ninth district house seat. in the nevada senate race, harry reid and his republican challenger will hold their first and only televised debate here on c-span live at 9 eastern. more campaign coverage at 10. the candidates from washington state senate race. a nevada's district debate, debate at 11 eatern. -- eastern.

>> "q&a". >> it is sometimes hard to avoid your basic values, how you see this country and the relationship between the law and the average person in this country. this basic fundamental, legal, and political values i think are part of you and they will sometimes influence and approach where the question is open. and where it admits that kind of thing. >> stephen breyer and his new book on c-span. >> get working on those videos for student him. the annual video documentary competition. there is $50,000 in prizes. this year's theme, washington, d.c. through my lands. for information, go to student cam.org.

>> the brookings institution's hamilton project posted a discussion of proposals for helping communities recover from the recession. speakers include rubber rubin. the first part is over an hour. -- speakers include robert rubin. >> good morning. i would like to begin by welcoming you here this morning. this is the fourth hamilton project policy forum of the year. i think it will be an especially provocative and stimulating one. it is going to focus on an

economic strategy for revitalizing particularly distressed communities around the country. that is an important subject, because research shows as you can see by looking through our strategy paper, research shows that certain distressed communities take an inordinately long time to recover and suffered lagging incomes, often for decades. it is an important subject because there has been a lot of debate and policy experimentation in this area. perhaps not so much recently, but over recent decades. i recall serving in the carter administration and we had a

countercyclical revenue sharing program focused on distressed communities. we worked hard on a national development proposal which became a part of the economic development administration in the commerce department. the subject, distressed communities, was a big focus at that time in the late 1970's. i think you are going to enjoy this morning. let me describe the format. panelsoing to have two followed by kino remarks -- keynote remarks from gov. holm from michigan. the first panel, initially our executive director is going to provide an overview of the strategy paper which we just put

forward. i urge each of you to look through it. it is really excellent. i think all of us at hamilton are quite proud of it. i want to commend michael and adam for this work. michael will review it and moderate a panel of academic experts, including the vice- president and director of metropolitan studies at brookings and it well-known leader in this field. timothy bardick, and daniel sullivan. the panel will present and discuss three new policy proposals in regard to revitalizing distressed communities. the second panel will be rubin andby robogb

include joe mastervich, michael rubinger and this second panel will give us a report from the front line perspective on many of the country's distressed communities and efforts successful and unsuccessful to restart them. i will hand this over to michael greenstone. thank you for being here. [applause]

>> thank you for that introduction. these advances led to the rise of new industries and the decline of others. since industries are not spread evenly, these changes can lead to extended periods of what economists like to call adjustments. let me speak plainly. when these changes come, workers lose their jobs, marriages are strained, children suffer, entire communities can lose their faith in the american dream. today we're here to make the case for a national policy to aid distressed communities and outline a broad principles for such a policy.

in these mathematical models that economists like, the so- called adjustment occurs quickly for all communities. many communities to recover quickly. for some of the hardest-hit communities, returning to growth is a long and slow process that can take several decades. consider the evidence from the 1980-'82 recession. we contrasted 20% of counties that were hardest hit with the rest of the country. prior to this recession, average income moved in lockstep with and comes with the rest of the country. not afterwards. even today, almost 30 years later, these counties, it is not just the levels are lower but their growing slower. that translates into an income gap of $10,000 a person. compared to several hundred

before the recession. rates of employment are lower in those counties. relative populations have declined. the young have left and relative property values have fallen. that a recession could temporarily cause income reductions is not surprising. the fact this remains and in some measures was greater a quarter-century later is sobering by any measure. today, the u.s. is facing a new and urgent challenge. the anna nicole impacts of the great recession in the ongoing restructuring in manufacturing, construction, and other industries raise the risk of creating a new set of distressed communities. we have mapped the the hardest hit counties in the current recession. they are concentrated in places where manufacturing has played a key role and we are -- home building has been an important source of growth. these pay places are at risk of becoming the distressed

communities of tomorrow. they are of local concern. why is this an issue that demands federal involvement? perhaps the strongest argument for federal policy is the finding that the adjustment is longer and harsher than previously realized. although not the final word, this persistence suggests there may be barriers or what are called market failures that prevent these communities from participating in the nation's economic growth. we outlined for barriers that may hinder some recovery -- communities from recovery. spillovers. people in -- and firms are more productive when a cluster and work in the same industry. economic shock leads to decline in the city, they are likely to be [unintelligible] to other firms. when unemployment rises above a certain level, social problems may develop that a rapid pace.

in -- an increase in the unemployment rate might cause a larger increase in social problems like crime that arise -- that rises from 4% to 5%. in distressed trinity's, workers displaced from long-term jobs have skills that are best suited to industries or occupations that are in decline. these workers may under invest in training or retraining due to difficulty getting loans, poor information about the benefits of training, and some of the benefits accrue to others. adjustment costs. one of the main ways localities adjust is to mobility. there are big up-front costs. banks are generally unwilling to provide loans to finance such moves. these barriers are market -- or market failures mean that addressing social costs requires

a set of policy tools that are focused directly on places. the rationale for this intervention is not just to help. it isn't proving easy -- economic growth and ensure that it is broadly shared. the approaches we recommend are motivated by the observation that long term stresses characterized by mismatch between skills and the demand for their work from local businesses. we believe and we challenge the authors on this stage to show that possible design policies that have benefits that exceed costs in the current fiscal and economic environment, this is more important than usual. we recognize every community is different. there is no one-size-fits-all solution. that is why we recommend policy focus on three broad categories. attracting new businesses. there is evidence that some places can attract business and

boost the productivity and wages of workers. [unintelligible] through wage insurance programs or policies that make it easier for workers to get the skills that are in demand. matching workers to new jobs. my colleague was awarded the nobel prize in economics on monday for work demonstrating the difficulties the workers face when searching for new job, especially in a recession. facilitating faster and better matching of workers and employers through increased information and reduce barriers to mobility could lower unemployment, boost earnings, and raise productivity. finally, as we consider new policy options to aid distressed communities, a central ingredient must be a commitment

to end resources for rigorous evaluation. over the past several decades, policy ideas on urban redevelopment have come into and out of favor almost as if they are riding on a merry go round. a failure to commit ourselves to a valuation and developing a tool chest of work works is a choice to have more communities with their social costs, more distressed communities with more costs than are necessary. we're pleased to introduce the author of three exciting policy proposals. you can learn more about them in materials we have handed out. i will give a brief introduction. dan sullivan and his colleage are considered the godfather's

[unintelligible] of [unintelligible] they are internationally recognized experts in the fields of poverty, education, and crime. we have the vice-president of the brookings institution. he advises federal, state, and municipal leaders on policy reforms that vance the competitiveness of metropolitan areas. i will turn this over to dr. bardick.

>> my paper focuses on creating jobs. with enough money and political will, we can do so. the real question is, can we create jobs in distressed communities in a way that is cost-effective and as clear national benefits. the most obvious way to create jobs in distressed communities is provide tax subsidies and we're doing a lot of that at the state and local level. in my view, the alternative approaches that are more cost- effective and of greater national benefit. the alternative approach is to provide the area with services that will improve productivity of local businesses.

through customized training and information for small and medium-sized businesses. services that improve business productivity can be more cost- effective because if these services are run well, they lower business costs by more than $1 per dollar program cost. they serve -- they have national benefits. greater productivity will improve national per capita income. as was a line, redistricting jobs also has national benefits but the national benefits and greater productivity are easier to quantify and more obvious. efforts to create jobs should make sure they target distressed areas tightly so they [inaudible] if we realize benefits, we need

to tightly targeted distressed areas, the tight targeting means we are going to have enough resources to make a difference. in addition, we need to make sure that efforts to create jobs are held accountable to rigorous evaluation. it means we have to compare the productivity and job creation of business areas that are assisted with similar ones that are not. my paper outlines how that can be done. let me outline my policy proposals. the first two proposals would be targeted at the 20% of all local level market areas that are most distressed. and would target small and medium-sized business. my first proposal would create a new federal matching grant program for state customized job training programs.

most states provide customized training grants to businesses as an economic development program. customized training programs use the business of the client and provide training to workers the business tuzes and adapt to individual needs. this new federal matching grant program which support state expansion of customized training but only for small and medium-sized businesses which are likely to under invest in training and only in designated areas so it gives those areas a competitive advantage. my second proposal is for the manufacturing extension service. we have such a program at the federal level. it provides matching grants for regional centers around the u.s. that work with small and medium-sized manufacturers to provide them with low-cost,

reliable consulting advice to improve competitiveness. my proposal is to expand this program but increase the federal match rates. my third proposal would target the most distressed 2% of the u.s. phasing out the current empowerment zone program and restarting the program with an original design which includes tax breaks and public services in those zones. the empowerment zone program [unintelligible] which makes no sense because research suggests the original program was effective and business tax breaks alone will not turn around distressed neighborhoods. the world through these programs, we have good research evidence they boost productivity. the productivity benefits are twice program costs and the estimated cost per job created are in the range from 10,000-

$25,000 per job created which is far less than the benefits of creating jobs in distressed areas. they held a wide variety of businesses while manufacturing programs target the manufacturing sector. zones make sure of jobs reach the most distressed neighborhoods but we need the first two proposals. you will not turn around a neighborhood unless -- if the metropolitan area remains distressed. these programs can be implemented full-scale and that national cost of less than $2 billion per year. my ideas to create jobs by adopting three proposals with which we have the best research evidence, they can increase business productivity, promoting job creation to distressed communities is more likely to be politically sustainable if it is cost-effective and provide clear benefits for the nation. thank you for your attention. [applause]

>> we are new to the idea of distressed communities to study. we are working on the issue of workers' which is related. we are thinking of workers who have had a job for several years, maybe three or five or 25 years and lost the job because something happened to the firm at which they worked. many communities are communities in which many displaced workers exist. it suffered some shock to the industry that is important to supporting the community. they tend to be a distinct subset of the unemployed. in a good year, there is only 1

million displaced workers. in a bad year, we do not have the numbers yet for 2008 and 2009. there might be some number close to 3 million workers. this is a group that policy makers have studied for quite some time. the reason you can see the worry is the graph on my slide shows the workers who lost their jobs in the first quarter of 1982 which used to be the standard for the worst recession the country had gone through. the workers who kept their jobs had steady growth in earnings over time. the workers who lost those jobs suffered rapid drops. they're mostly unemployed during that time.

the recovery takes a very long time. even 5 and 10 years later, you can see these workers have lower earnings. policymakers have been interested in doing things to help them. one simple point i want to make its traditional unemployment insurance is totally unable to do that. unemployment insurance works when you are unemployed. they get reemployed but at much lower wages. 25% is a fairly typical range. traditional unemployment insurance is not something that will help those people. in another excellent hamilton project paper, there is a program of wage insurance discussed that will give workers some continued support, even after they are reemployed with the support dependent on the difference between their old and

new job in terms of earnings. that is a way that is a good way for public policy to move. we will talk about something different. the idea of providing extra support for some of these workers to go back and get retraining through the community college system. we have worked on that as well. we feel the results that have happened when we studied workers that often on their own initiative went back and got additional training had pretty good results. the numbers suggest we estimate the rate of return to that investment is around 12% which is high relative to most other investments that one can think of. that is not a magic bullet. not the number that says you can easily replace the big earnings losses the workers suffered with a course or two in community college. it takes quite a bit of

retraining to make up for losing a job you held. it does seem like the rate of return is good and more of this type of training ought to take place. a few points. this will not be the best for all possible workers. the results suggest this retraining works better for workers that are relatively young. they have a longer time to recoup the investment and also for one to have been in post secondary education. it shows the retraining is better if you take technical courses as opposed to less rigorous course work. we have a couple of proposals. one would be to expand the telegram program. designed it for displaced workers. the idea is to encourage workers to go back to work and allow them to continue retraining after their return.

one thing that happens is people back to work and their support and sprayed with like to support them to give additional support after they go back to work. we have specific ideas which would provide for a fairly generous retraining stipend that would be available and support their ability to cover tuition, fees, child care, transportation and things like that up to five years after they lose their job. we want to put some restrictions on these things. we want phase-outs to occur for incomes above $80,000 and offer these to workers who are making satisfactory progress. another avenue that we think would be helpful is to have a federal program which provides support to the community college system in areas that needed. there is a catch-22 that happens frequently.

when a community is suffering severe distress, they have many workers who want to go back and get retraining. it is a good time for them to go back because the opportunity cost is not very high. well that is going on, basically, there is very little in the way of -- there is a pressure time on communities and there are cutbacks in community colleges. when they're most needed there are cutbacks. we propose a system set up so communities that are suffering the greatest distress would get additional support to keep the infrastructure running when it is needed the most. some additional proposals which would call for being more efficient on how the training is done. certain courses seem to pay off more and states and localities ought to find ways to get them to be done more. we're in favor of more research

and evaluation. the extreme edge. -- thanks very much. [applause] >> this is a paper with steve fael in berkeley. the problem the mobility bank is intended to address are the massive differences we see in unemployment rates across areas within the u.s. if you go to flint, michigan and look at the unemployment rate, it was nearly 29%. that excludes people who have given up for work. if you are not actively looking, you're not included in that number.

in iowa, the unemployment rate is less than 6%. these differences across areas and economic conditions especially at the city level are slow to disappear. local job creation is often insufficient to absorb the unemployed workers. you can see this in the example of flint. the unemployment rate there was 22%. how do we do a better job of matching workers to firms across states within the u.s.. we looked prescient given the market awarded a prize for how to solve these problems. the puzzle that motivates the specifics of our mobility bank project, proposed program is the

question of why more people do not move from places where the unemployment rate is 29% to places where the rate is 4 or 5% or 6%? the key hypothesis to the mobility bank proposal is we think this is partly due to a market failure. the market failure stems from the fact that moving it is expensive. if you think about what it would cost you as an unemployed worker to move from michigan to iowa and you thought about moving expenses and you have allowed yourself to months of living expenses to look and find a job, you can think about $10,000 as the ball park budget for making a move like that. middle-income and upper middle income people can sell finance

these up-front costs and invest in residential moves that will generate long term returns. low income people cannot. they cannot sell finance and there is a market failure in the credit market debt under provides loans for people for investing in residential moves that will make them better off. they cannot use the long-term earnings stream they would get as collateral to secure the loan. let me tell you about the mobility bank that we have in mind. that would be intended to solve this market failure we think contributes to people sticking in places with high unemployment rates. we're proposing a mobility bank program that would make loans up to $10,000 to unemployed or underemployed people living in cities in the top third of the national distribution in terms of unemployment rates.

loan repayment would not start until people are successfully reemployed and help insure people against the uncertainty of moving and looking for work. we wonder -- want to mitigate the disincentive associated with repayment. we propose the payments are amortized over 10 years and should be capped at 3% of gross income. we think that information problems, limited information about what job opportunities and amenities are like in other places could be a contributing factor to immobility. we propose a program of stepped- up information provision of job opportunities and suggest these loans could be used to travel to places to search for work and look at local amenities as well. our best guess for the net costs of this program would be

something on the order of 500 to $800 million per year. this could lead up to an extra [unintelligible] for people living in economically distressed communities. this would enhance efficiency by improving matching of workers to firms with in the u.s. labor market. the costs per job that we estimate for the bank compare favorably to most of the other interventions that are oriented toward job creation. it has the potential to address this market failure we think is preventing people from making moves they believe would be in their long-term best interest. thank you very much. [applause] >> i want to commend bob and roger and michael.

that thereoint is no national policy is spot on. there is a space coast initiative because of the nascent cutbacks and we respond to natural disasters. there is no deliberate, purposeful policy or strategy in the u.s. with places hit by economic restructuring. i agree with some of the proposals put forth. the focus on community colleges is correct. these efforts work and they work and their underfunded. given what we are about to see in states and in his abilities with cutbacks, they are being undermined. i want to make through broad points about these papers. the first, it is not sufficient

to look at american examples. there are other places in this world in europe and japan that have undergone dramatic economic restructuring over 30 years and they have responded differently. we almost have a natural experiment. at the matrone program, we've focused on places like torino which saw a dramatic restructure of the infrastructure. barcelona, sheffield in england. what these places have with municipal metropolitan state or province, national, and even e.u. intervention is a recovery playbook. it is partly focused on the things we're talking about here. investments in workers and firms. it starts with a collective strategy about what are the assets and attributes advantages that the place has in the global market. it starts with a prospect, an

investment perspective for places. it proceeds to make some signature and seismic and sustained investments over time with the private sector in what matters. exports. innovation. human capital, manufacturing innovation. infrastructure. protective early around the core of the [unintelligible] europe fundamentally thinks of itself in the global markets. there is an internationalization of the strategy. it does not look within, it looks within a global context. except -- it accepts the notion that the quality of place matters. that is why you see these cities submerge their freeways in their central downtown. that is what you see these

cities to reclaim their waterfronts. you see them bring mediate their brownfield's at scale. public investment around a collective strategy to help place and -- replace and diversify a economy and leverage its potential. that is a different playbook. we fundamentally have to understand we're not alone in the world anymore. we have to look to places that we have dismissed too much and take the best of what they might have and tailor it to our dynamic culture. the past may not be prologue. i think this recession is a juncture for the economy. we have to move forward to a different economy. we cannot go back to normal. what preceded this was anything but. we have to move to an economy that is powered by exports, driven by low carbon and fuelled with innovation. if you take then as the shape of

the next economy, some of these distressed communities might be able to participate. just take detroit and southeast michigan. the metro is the ninth biggest exporter in the u.s. it has -- has the 12th largest export capacity. as the largest number of jobs of any metro in the export sector. if you stand on the detroit side of the river, you can see canada. you can see a foreign country, right? [laughter] if you think about a different kind of economy when you measure the assets and attributes and advantages of places differently. the way we measure it now is the residue of the prior economy. it is not sufficient just to look to the national government. we all know what this town is going to be like in three or four weeks. it is not going to be out of

business. it will not be able to make some of the seismic and systemic moves that are necessary to shift to the next economy. that is why i like a lot of these proposals because the benefits outweigh the costs. they tend to be incremental but they may be what can get done. the left will happen in the states and the municipalities and metros we're talking about. these are not the places -- they will have to cut to invest. if you want to reclaim your waterfront or restored downtown, maybe you should be building that new freeway at the periphery or winding the freeway. that is yesterday's economy. if we look at transportation spending and infrastructure spending and you look across the domestic policy, we are

investing as if it is 1970's america. i would say let's take some of these proposals and complement them with other initiatives and let's begin to build up from that prickleback -- pragmatic network of officials and leaders to understand their place and can galvanize the kind of systemic reforms and state and federal policies that are necessary in a long time -- and a long time coming. thank you. [applause] >> thanks raymond. -- very much. tim, you said these policies would not just attract businesses but raise the productivity of other businesses. can you talk about how that might work? >> the programs customized

training and manufacturer extension raises the productivity. businessrking with with competitiveness problems. it raises per act -- capita incomes. we're trying to get advantage to these areas. it will attract jobs to those areas and grow the economy. that will have as your outlining, impact on the employment rates of these areas. not only in the short run but the long run. the theme of a lot of discussion is these short run investments not only affect labor market butomes in the short run have these long run implications as people get more job experience and confidence. it builds on itself.

>> i have several questions about your proposal. i will start with one. it seems to be focused on a particular set of workers. can you talk about how you decided to focus on those workers and what other retraining or skill improvement programs are offered for workers? >> we focused on community college training and evidence suggests those kinds of retraining are more effective for people with a decent base level of skills. the results for people who have not finished high school to not look very good. the ones for people who had a little bit of college before they lost their jobs look better. it is the case that the proposal we have been talking about is more suited to help workers at the middle or the upper part of

the income distribution. that is a fact. it is unfortunate. large investment in people who do not have a base level of skills to prepare them to go back to college or technical skill will not work very well. there is still and we're not proposing big changes but there are programs that facilitate job search. one-stop centers and programs that can combine small amounts of retraining with a focused career placement kind of thing. those have pretty good rates of return. it is hard to think he will push people as far in that kind of world that you could with significant amounts of retraining. displaced worker pell grant were enacted, it was not targeted in such a clear way that you have outlined. what would happen to the rate of return? >> if it was expanded beyond the

realm, the rates of return would go down. we're studying workers who decide to go back. they had subsidies in some cases. if you expand the pool, you will go beyond the ones who are most beneficial and the average would go down. >> the proposed an interesting and timely proposal which you call the mobility bank. why does the government need to get involved in subsidizing? >> mainstream economists think that there are two rationales for government intervention. market failure and spillovers. another form of market failure. one of the things that got us thinking that market failure could be a problem is not just thinking through the experiences we have had but when you look at nationally representative ced workers, splaye

10% of people with less than a college degree move. they are more likely to be reemployed. there are two explanations that might be contributing. credit market constraints, the ability of the college-educated workers to finance the moves and information about national labour market opportunities. the proposal is focused on addressing both of those things. about externalities'. if you think about who benefits when unemployed or underemployed workers moved, it is not just benefits to people who relocate

and are more likely to get a job. that reduces the amount of excess supply of labor in places like flynn. people who remain behind are benefiting. one unemployed people in flint are making decisions about whether they should move, they're not incorporating the benefits to others and that creates an opportunity for the government to become involved in moving closer to the optimal amount of mobility. the rationale for intervention is similar in a lot of ways to the reason the government was involved in the student loan market for college. >> one thing that we put to the authors is the proposals would increase productivity, wages, employment growth. not just in a particular community but at the national level. i want to propose -- ask you to

focus on that. are you saying for $500 million or $800 million, we can increase gdp? >> it is not clear we could. this is not the thing that will double gdp in the u.s. this is in the flavor of an incremental and feasible intervention. something that can help tens of thousands of people in distressed communities. one way to think about the productivity effects of the mobility factor is you can go back to the 1960's and look at some of the riding that milton friedman was doing about the labor market. he was talking about mobility as one of the frictions in the labor market that contributes difficulties in workers and firms matching to each other. you can think about the gains from this proposal in the following way. you have a bunch of workers in places with 25% or 30%

unemployment rate. that will have a difficult time matching with firms. you have firms that are 4 or 5% that relative to places with more excess supply of labour have a harder time finding workers. every week that a worker sits around idle is a week of productivity forgone. every week a job since i will is a week of productivity forgone as well. by increasing the rate at which workers and firms can match up, this is one step we can make towards enhancing productivity. >> as a fellow economist, we like to -- is easier to speak in terms of corrections and adjustments. one thing that has brought us here is we know those frictions and adjustments have real impact on people's lives, economic distress, family is dissolving.

in the long run, it can hurt the social network and cause people to lose faith in the american dream. we will take some questions from the floor. >> i was thinking about this, about these efforts to address market failure and productivity and why europe is unable to do this to a greater extent than we have. the reason is, politically, europe is still young. that see you is how many years old? germany, italy, even spain are and 30 years to 50 years old according to the post-franco regime.

we have lost that in the united states. maybe because we are an old political system. we used to have it when we talk about the north-subdivide, about places that would not participate in the economy in the same way. we have to get it back. the way to get it back is partly to talk about a national vision, about the next economy, and about different places that can contribute to that vision. that is why i am particularly focused on exports, low carbon, or renovation as a general proposition. ofy seem aligned to thhour entrepreneurial ability to match the moment. if it was done in a targeted way, it could meet that possibility. >> as i pointed out in the paper, much of the tax breaks in

the u.s. would be illegal under european union law. they are. you cannot do it. in the eu, economic development pursued by germany or france would have to be under the same criteria i mentioned. it has to do something was training and high technology and training. you cannot hand out random tax breaks all of the place. that would be an illegal act for france to undertake. it is strange that, even though the european union is a less cohesive unit than the u.s., it has less regulation on what the member states do then we get the federal level as the u.s.. >> we have a couple of questions on the floor.

>> please state your affiliation. >> i am a reporter for "the new york times." i like the other two proposals, mr. ludwig, yours seems to focus on the individual worker rather than helping the worker and the community in place. could one inadvertent effect be reductions in human capital and masturbating the brain drain of the most enterprising or the most ambitious workers in any environment? uri mentioned that the college- educated ones leave at a higher rate. but it would cause other brokers to madrid as well. >> -- to migrate as well. >> the one thing -- the one important thing to keep in mind

is that the mobility idea and should be thought of complementary to the playstation of engines. you think about the three different inventions as a package rather than a bunch of isolated things. one reason why you would not think about the mobility bank as a potential driver brain drain is to think about the problem that it is intended to address and the segment of the labor market that is affected by these mobility constraints. when i think about brain drain, i think about college-educated or more educated people leaving an area and contributing to a downgrading of the average education distribution of some area. we think the people who are constrained right now and cannot move out of economically distressed communities are the lower income people who cannot

find their own move. what this proposal does is trying to limit the constraints for people in a part of the labor market and allows them to make moves they think would be in their best interest in ways that more affluent people can already make on their own. >> one thing that is a common theme in these distressed communities is that industries are not spread evenly in the west they tend to be concentrated in padilla places. when an insurer gets hit by -- in particular places. when an industry gets hit, you have given to workers left in places who have skills specific to that industry. there may be a better match for them somewhere else. we do not want to confine them to stay in a place where there's not demand for their skills. >> the federal reserve is one of

the active debates going on about how much is it winnable by structural forces. this could have a big chip on what they decide to do next. would either of you be willing to weigh in on that question? >> i think we clearly have a lot of unemployment, but that is not what we are addressing in these proposals today. i think there is a lot of circular unemployment. more could be done to stimulate the economy, but that is a different topic. we're not talking about areas that face long-term stress. that is the big problem. we need to address that to broader strategies that complement each other. each of these proposals addressing a different segment of the labor market.

maybe dance proposal does not really help people with -- minivans -- maybe dan's proposal does not really help people in one segment. the existence of these structural employment problem does not address the cyclical unemployment problem. >> with this panel is trying to do and this notion that there should be federal policy for distressed communities is to take resources, human, people, families, who are not participating in the american economy the way the rest of the country is and bring them into the economy. what that could do is lower the unemployment rate. in many senses, we should be aiming at a high level of

unemployment. there's a question over there. >> i fully approve of these matches. but is this flying in the face of the conventional wisdom that [unintelligible] any government intervention would be very bad. the mainstream economists are not changing their positions. they defend free-market

fundamentalism. you are fighting an ideological battle and not an intellectual one. >> let me try to ensure that. what you have here is several mainstream economists, all who have identified targeted ways to implement policies that can benefit the u.s. economy. i like the plant you made about the 20 years to 25 years. early development policies have been going on for a long time. roger was working on it in the '70s with the carter administration. 25 years to 30 years later, we do not have a tool chest of things we know that work. a common theme in these proposals is there has to be rigorous evaluation of all of them. if we do not do that, the

hamilton project or a successor or some other group will be in this room 20 years from now talking about distressed communities and bemoaning the lack of tools and policies to improve the lives of people in these communities. >> i am steve crawford. i think that everybody is for labor mobility, especially in the distressed communities. i wonder about the figures from the representative survey that 16% of college-educated people are moving in vs. 10% of others. >> that is among displaced workers. >> that means 90% vs. 84%. then it does not look like such a big difference. if you control for age, one wondered if the defense would not come down some more. if the main barrier to mobility

is lack of being able to finance it, then, by all means, it sounds like a great proposal. but michigan has great experience with relocation vouchers. they moved workers from indiana, i think, and they found them jobs. i do not know the facts on this, but my memory is that an awful lot of them moved back before long to michigan for other reasons they do not want to move besides not being able to finance the movement costs. a lot of people cannot sell their house in order to move. that raises another question about labor mobility, which is housing policy needs to put in an emphasis. in europe, we see the housing policy can be less oriented toward ownership because people

are renting. presumably, they're more available to move elsewhere. i'm just curious on your thoughts about that. >> in our proposal, we're not assuming -- your question is exactly right in the sense that our proposal is not assuming that the establishment of the mobility bank will lead to a sea change in the total number of moves. as best we can tell from the data we looked at, there is a way to people that look like they might potentially be credit-constrained as part of the reason for why they're not moving. but there are a lot of unemployed people, especially in these distressed communities. a small changeliey and mobility of the number of unemployed people, that leads you to tens of thousands of numbers of people moving and

getting jobs under our estimates. i should be very clear -- i want to emphasize a point that michael made. can i guarantee that the mobility bank will work? absolutely not. we don't have anything like this in place. the nice thing about a long program like this is that, if no one feels credit-constrained, they will not use it. it is not like using a big pyramid and nobody visits it and it is a big waste. [laughter] the evaluation of this is really important. we think there are reasons to hypothesizes. the evaluation for us is an absolutely central part of our proposal. >> there is a question over there. like to go back to

their papers for a moment. i want to challenge your assumption about the skills of displaced workers or workers in general, especially in distressed communities. the numbers are startling. for people have only high-school diploma, have low skills, who have perfectly good jobs and were able to function. today, dr. katz since organization came out about washington, d.c. and people with a high-school diploma are far less than those who have a college education. dr. sullivan says this will only work for people who have some college education. had you propose to address the

that for quality of life in the communities that you will say is so important? >> what i would say about my proposal is that it is designed to create jobs in distressed areas. some of that may be jobs that people who have low skill levels can have access to. maybe you will work with a manufacturer and find out new ways of doing business. maybe that manufacturer is very high tech. maybe the workers to levels will have to be very high in that manufacturer. but that is an export-based business. it sells to such a way of places. there are multiplier effects of that. that manufacturing plant will have suppliers. the workers will go out and buy stuff and create jobs for local retailers. so a variety of jobs will be

created at a different skill levels. people look at the different impact of job growth in mostar peloton areas in different income years, is progressive. the greatest impact is on the lowest quintile. if you are able to create jobs in the export-based segment of the metropolitan area, you will create jobs at a variety of skill levels. we know that will, in turn, have an overall modestly progressive affect on the local income distribution. >> i wanted to make sure that i did not say too strongly in that retraining is farley those who had some college education. it could work for lots of people. maybe even if you did not have

college educations. the result seems to be much better for those who have skills going into these things. we would want to do our best and make only investments that we think will pay off. a proposal we did not talk about was to try to have means for identifying what the right strategies are four different workers. i would not want to basically only depend on things like her previous education levels. you can work harder and identify things would work well for a broader group of people. i think it is beyond the scope of this panel, but there are programs and talks policies and things we can -- and tax policies to address income inequality. >> i do not think we can take enough time, looking at that map you put up initially. that shows two very different parts of the country that we're talking about.

we're talking about the auto belts. other manufacturing prices have not been as hit as michigan and ohio. then we're talking about places that put housing on steroids. parts of florida and other parts of our country -- if we just kept looking at that map, we would have to ask ourselves whether the broader policies that basically precipitated this kind of results? there are two kinds of policies. we have tilted towards consumption, tax, a whole bunch of other housing policies, and we have undermined our ability to compete globally in manufacturing. these are very helpful proposals that are targeted to these distressed areas in a multiple ways. but there are a broader sweep

the policies that actually led to this map that we need to get at, both for the communities that are hardest hit and for the country as a whole. we cannot spend enough time looking at that. that is the result of 20 years of policy. we should go back and began to unwind and unravel, probably first in the states right now. i do not think the federal government will be able of -- will be capable of doing this. but at the state levels, we can get to some of these underlying conditions. >> i have a different take on this. the surprise here is that may be different kinds of reasons are affected by the sorts of events. that is an important possible point. maybe washington, d.c. will be the next distressed community. to the extent that it is harder to predict where exactly these events will occur, that leads you to think that insurance is are more important. basically, i think that is what

bob and i are arguing for. we do not know which the next community is. so everybody has something to gain to have been insurance policy that would bring some resources for the next distressed community. if we are looking ahead, trying to design policies that will put resources to areas that will be heard in the future, that is potentially a political one. >> if people are cynical about be able to do some of these things, some of these policies can be taken up by state and local governments. the federal government being paralyzed doesn't mean that government action is not possible at other levels. >> i want to think our panelists -- i want to thank our

panelists. we will now have a 10-minute break. we will reconvene at 10:25 a.m. the second panelist perspectives from the front lines of american communities. this should be an exciting conversation. thank you. [applause] >> in the midterm elections are november 2. each night, on c-span, which of debates the key races around the country. part of our coverage tonight

will be in nevada. majority leader harry reid and his republican challenger sharon angle will be facing off. we will have live here on c-span at 9:00 p.m. eastern next, dean at titus will face republican joe have live on c- span and 11:00 p.m. here is more of the nevada races. >> the nevada senate race is still a very competitive one. senate majority leader harry reid anti party can edit it sharon angle will have their only debate tonight. joining me this morning is money involved -- is molly bolt. what will be their strategies?

>> these candidates are known for saying in temperate things. they will both be try not to make a mistake of the ball. it is interesting to see them playing the expectations game. sharon angle, because she is the challenger, people are putting out word that, if she does not all over herself, she will have done well. i think harry reid's people, because he is not known as the most electrifying speaker, they are also trying to spread the word that, if he does not flubbed too badly, he will have done well, too. because this is the only debate, it will be watched very closely. >> harry reid's office has said that she has a credibility gap. tonight's debate, she needs to be able to close it. do you know what has gone into her debate preparation? she has said that she will not talk to the national media up until this point. so she has not had to answer any questions about past statements. >> exactly. i think that is why a debate

like this will be so interesting. we will see her get questioned about some of those things. we will see the two of them be able to ask each other about their various past statements. these are two candidates with very high negatives in terms of how voters see them. it will be a challenge for both of them to try to come off anyway that makes people like them. >> sharon l. engel was able to raise $40 million. will harry reid be able to match that and spend -- sharon angle was able to raise $14 million. will harry reid able to match that and spend it before the election? >> $14 million is a stunning amount of money and debt relief for any quarter for any single nevada candidate. however, the question ion hand o

they really have? as you go into the final weeks of the campaign when they are both purchasing wall-to-well television time and trying to get out of the and mobilize voters, that money is going to be very important. >> harry reid has focused his money on ads. i want to show our viewers both ads put up by harry reid and sharon and bill. >> i am sharon angle and i approved this message. >> you are looking at every time harry reid voted to raise taxes. income taxes, taxes on social security, taxes on small business, even the dreaded death tax. a staggering 300 times. it is a bigger raise for nevada's economic meltdown. now read and pelosi are planning to raise taxes on 34 million families right after the elections. let's stop them from ever raising our taxes again. >> i work with kids who have been abused and their stories break my heart.

but when the assembly created a program to weed out sex offenders by helping youth and church groups do background checks on volunteers, it passed with only to members of voting no. sharon ankle was one of them. she said background checks were an invasion propped say -- an invasion of privacy. >> sharon angle, ideas so extreme there are dangers. >> i am harry reid and i approve this message. >> harry reid has been trying to say in these ads that she is unfit for office. is it working? >> that is what we're all waiting to find out. we will find out on election day. those ads are perfect demonstrations of their strategies. you'd have sharon and low -- you have sharon and gangle trying te it about harry reid's economic record. and you have harry reid making

it an issue about her extreme positions. >> harry reid is up by three percentage points. it looks like sharon and the's strategy -- sharon and wilangl's strategy is keeping her in the race. >> absolutely. every vote will count. this will be a really close race. >> what is the senate majority leader planning for the ground game? >> they are both sending a lot of their money and their time knocking on doors, contacting people, making phone calls, doing everything they can to increase turnout. i think the conventional wisdom on this is that the higher turnout there is, the more it will benefit harry reid because

republicans tend to have a natural turnout advantage when the have enthusiasm on their side. it may be harder for democrats to mobilize and voters who may feel discouraged and not as enthusiastic about their choices this year. >> harry reid has said he plans to spend more than president obama did in 2008 on his ground game. president obama spent about $4 million. >> that is right. it is a stunning amount of money and a stunning amount of effort going into this. i covered the 2008 campaign in nevada. that was the most extensive and impressive voter mobilization there had been. obama won the state by 12 points, but the efforts of the campaign was unmatched. he did not see john mccain's campaign putting in that kind of money in nevada. this time, there will be a lot of money and effort on both sides. >> there is a competitive house

race. why is this a competitive? >> this is a great race if you want to find a microcosm of the house races across the country. tina titus is a freshman representative who was swept in on that obama way. the third district is a suburban district around las vegas where you have a lot of those independent voters who are worried about the economy, worried about home foreclosures. her challenger is joe lojack, a former state senator, also from that -- joe lojacheck, a formere senator, also from that area. there is a much money in it. voters are feeling pretty bombarded by the top of the ticket. i do not know how much attention they are paying to this race further down. but that is a race that is encapsulating the whole landscape this year.

>> voters in nevada and viewers across the country who are interested in that race can hear from the candidates themselves tonight. we're covering both of the senate and the house debate tonight. the senate is live 9:00 p.m. eastern time and then the house district debate will be at 10:00 p.m. -- 11:00 p.m. >> throughout the weekend, there will be panels on medical mysteries, capital punishment, and infamous fugitives. get the entire schedule on ktv.org. >> join us for a rare look at

hitler's nuremberg laws. american history tv, all weekend, every weekend, on c- span 3. >> coverage continues from the brookings institution's hamilton project. it hosted a discussion yesterday on proposals for helping hard- hit communities in the u.s. this is just over an hour. nholm. this is an hour. >> if you would get seated. please. and then we can begin. we are honored to be joined also by secretary coleman. it's very nice to have you with us. i'm rob rubin. and as you get seated, i'll begin the process of introducing

our second panel. which i will moderate. as roger oman said we have an outstanding group of panelist. just to remind you, steve goldsmith, deputy mayor of new york city and former city of indianapolis, joe mastervich, michael rubinger, and ashley swearengin, the former mayor of fresno. we'll ask a question and they will respond. we'll do that sequentially. we'll have a discussion and they can discuss the markets or whatever else they'd like to address. we'll have additional questions. after the panelist completes his or her. if one of the other panelists

has a pressing question or comment, they can interject at that point. at the end, we'll take questions from the audience. and the overall objective of the panel, as i see mike greenstone said initially is to see what can be learned from the experience of those who had a lot of experience in their own communities that can be applied to other communities, distressed communities across the country. so with that, let me pose the first question to joe mastervich, then i'll sit down. joe, your company is building a brand new pipe mill in your hometown of youngstown, ohio. $650 million. private capital, which is very large. it's obviously a plant you could have built anywhere in america, anywhere in the world, but you decided to build the plant in youngstown, ohio. it'll be interesting to know what went into your decision

making and also as you comment on that, whether you think there are lessons that can be learned from your experience in other communities? >> thank you. well, i'd like to start why a company might say no to youngstown. this is too often used photo here is our facility in the background. so nothing is deterrent to investment more than blight. it's a symbol of a community that's not able to partner with business, that's not able to change. and i think i can convince you that it poses some interesting issues in terms of recruiting the type of talent that you need to pull off a project like this. and the bottom line for us, it's not us. we're a vibrant company. we're in an important market. and we're looking at a huge expansion. so all of that being said, we said yes to youngstown.

why did we say yes? really two main reasons. the first one is it sounds simple. but it's true. it's our people. the operations, the maintenance, and the technical skills that we have in our work force combined with the existing operations and the facilities that we have a youngstown really give us a center of competency in pipe making. it's one that we are proud of and very importantly, it's one that we are confident in to deliver a project like this. the second point is the proximity to the marketplace. so i think you've all heard about the emerging natural gas opportunities in the marcela shale region in the united states. if you combine those two, the work force and the emerging marketplace, we really have a speed to market that's in a very appealing opportunity for us. so all of that being said, it's not that we didn't have issues

in locating in youngstown. first and foremost, our site crosses two city lines. needed of them had the 200 acres that we needed. those two cities, youngstown and girard have different income tax rates. we wanted to have the same tax rate. they are both distressed communities. they don't have the money to purchase the properties. and they've struggled to get the matching share of the funds to access the federal and state funds as well. so lands need site preparation and environmental remediation and i think the environmental permitting process itself can be a lengthy one. lastly, we have the question of utilities. we wanted to achieve a stable and competitive utility rate arrangement. so those are a lot of challenges. what did we do? this sounds simple, but it's

true. that's collaboration. we have really, really formed a very unique partnership between the business and government communities there. we have worked together on very, very well on an aggressive time frame to make the project go forward. : so it can be done while read

from a federal standpoint, the city of youngstown he realized $17 million from the recovery act fund to help prepare the site, making the industry ready so that means land leveling and rail access points, and very, very important to us was the decision from the international trade commission to enforce our trade law with respect to the stimulus pipe imports from china. finally, the bottom line what really i heard this this morning and it's true, we've built on our strength. that's what we did. that's why we picked youngstown and why we are doing what we are today. we've been able to achieve great cooperation among all levels of government. i would say we are investing in each other almost. we are sharing our constraints. some of them in confidence, so that we can both help each other meet the very aggressive timeframe and getting the project up and running. as it has been said is a huge

project, $650 million. it is a million square foot facility, state-of-the-art equipment, 400 plus construction jobs followed by 350 full-time well paying manufacturing jobs. i think it's an estimated billion dollar boom to the economy in an area that needs it. and aside from the investment, i would say that it's launched a number of very cooperative efforts to remove blight and create some green space in the neighborhoods around our facility, including that house that was in that photo earlier. [laughter] so, finally for us, our announcement has generated worldwide positive publicity both for the community and for the company. we have a great story to tell. that's why i'm here and think fall and appreciative of the opportunity to speak here today.

>> joe, thank you. would anybody like to pose a question to joe or should we wait until later? okey we will wait until later. why don't we turn to steve. steve, you face many issues in indianapolis i know because we talked about it and now you are in new york and see the issues of new york, what ought to reflect on your experience in minneapolis and also some of your initial reflections as you begin to approach the issues of a somewhat larger city in new york; and just as with joe are there any thought that come to mind as your experience can be useful to others the would be helpful. >> a very general question, mr. secretary. >> gives you a lot of room to operate. >> well, i will do this succinctly. i was district attorney and so many problems there. i was mayor for eight years.

i was in the academic law and tried to teach other people and that didn't work very well so now we've been demoted deputy mayor of new york. [laughter] if you think in terms of securities, sold all i actually was a volunteer in the model city days, thinking i was changing the world by the amount of energy i spent volunteering. and i saw the results later. [laughter] so what we think about it real quickly the following way: i don't think -- you will get massive amounts of interest but over the last several decades and say we need federal and state participation particularly in urban urban popularity because there's not enough wealth and the city to spread over the degree of poverty to produce opportunity, right? i got elected mayor in the early 90's where a group of us were friends at the same time we were elected mayors and ed rendell and myself and the city is a difficult place and in the 20 or

40 years before that, the mayors to inherited the popularity would do good things. it would redistribute the wealth of those who didn't to try to help ameliorate the problems of poverty and as you figure out the end of this story the more taxes you raise the more people with money move and the more they move the weaker the case and the more you have to raise taxes to pay and then you are on the slippery slope and really when i was the city mayor of indianapolis i could see the dollar bills flow across the city line and of land in the suburbs. on the 25th floor the tax payers and the crime was better, maybe not. so we have all these programs and many of those who are mayors like to go to washington and a big for large amounts of money and that was all very helpful, but really not quite because the situation never got much better so now you step back and say what can we do about the current situation where the income disparities are greater than any recent time, concentration of

poverty is back up, urban concentration is as well. single-family households are starting to go back up, and all of the accompanying social issues with them. so just a couple of quick reflections. one, obviously there still is more poverty than there is wealth inside a city. so what you talk about brookings metro region or help for the state government is you have to start with a proposition that if you just take folks living in the area's proximity of those in the concentrated areas of poverty there is not enough wealth to redistribute acid is mobile, and new york city is as close to the classic example than half of 1% of the tax payers take 55% of the income tax is 2500 new yorkers pay almost a quarter of income taxes and those folks can move into the arkansas that is not a path to prosperity and opportunity. you can't redistribute wealth. a couple other quick point,

mr. secretary, and then the marker and mayors can correct me if you will. the problem of so i think is not an absence of the creative portion to problems. we have had a number of -- secretaries for example including the current one who i think it's just tremendous. a lot of creativity. but there is a program with federal rules for every problem become and the cost of implementing them and the restrictions on creativity, one burst of enthusiasm when i was a major, ten, 12 years ago i said at the committee just give me 80% of the money and none of the rules and tell me how many units of housing you want and i will produce that number, just tell me the out come and give me the check, you can give me less money. i remember the answer which was how can we trust may years with our money, right? and so i think that it's not an absence of creativity on the policy side so much as the ability to kind of implement

creatively at the street level. second, and a comment i think i heard with respect to your plan is we have a group of federal programs that operate mechanisms and life is horizontal. even though there is a program that doesn't make it easily implemented so if we think about collaborations', why does the harlem told france's own work because geoffrey canada and it also creates an inclusive approach of a very highly concentrated policy where it touches the family, the preschool, the charter schools, the job training and it does it in organized collaborative ways. so one answer is to collaborate this services through collaboration. last, bald asked this kind open question and i've been in for 30 years, it's tough to get it in in one answer. the other gives me the chance to plug a book for which it no

royalties. [laughter] i was chairman of the corporation in washington and we found teach for america and the like, and so i started to examine what made for the entrepreneurial -- what made entrepreneurial nonprofit leaders successful. and it's not that we have problems for which we do not have successful solutions the problem is we don't have successful solutions to be enough scale. degette successful and then the government has to take them out and the autopsy leader is how that works. but the point is that i think we should concentrate a little bit on how the creative relationship between the nonprofit and for-profit and government sectors can produce more value and how the warning can go more to scale, and yet we have the systems where legislative branches, executive branches, nonprofit boards, united we

lenders come together around existing set of providers so i think the question i would leave with, mr. secretary, is if we know innovatively what works and it involves civil society as well as government and looking the assets in the society is the key to hold in the future whether it is education, how can we create a more dynamic marketplace for innovation to scale from new york to ohio or california. >> steve, we will move for me to the panelists, but i would like to ask one more question. new york is traditionally thought of as having very restrictive environment for all kind of reasons you and i discussed i believe at breakfast the other day. you want to just talk a little bit about how one who tries to free up the ability to function, not from federal regulations, but from local and state constrictions of all kinds? >> yes. i think this is actually a very important question. i will do it very quickly. let me -- bob and i had a conversation last week, i will

do this answer quickly. i would say i would ask the same question why does the academy=? work and public school 103 doze= > whatever, and you say if you? look at it for awhile you say> the teac?hers have more=? discretion, they can interact?? with the parents, they have longer hours, whatever, but they don't operate, what if the answer they don't operate pursuant to the highly prescribed set of rules that says to every child in every situation exactly the same. where the default government is coming out of the problems where the rules that restrict, we set up government, and in order to prevent the abuse of discretion we had prevented the use of discretion so good people don't have discretion inside government and a highly complex world with lots of tailored for the calls and i was active in child abuse, active in the various aspects of my life and if you gave a public official

authority within individual police officer or consular and set solve the problems in that family and don't worry about the rules, they could do that so the same is true of teaching a child and one of the schools, and new york city is the epitome of rules in of imprisonment. nobody has discretion to do anything. and i'm not talking about there aren't good point decouple appointed, that sought the topic of discussion. to go down to the person i see touches the person and you tell he or she has no discretion, and you have to turn the system on its head and give them discretion and then a lot of public officials can solve problems in partnerships with the civic groups. >> we will get back to that, steve, you're a politician as well as the manager, didn't know what your political strategy for doing that would be. you have a city that as you and i discussed has had longstanding problems and as you said the civic decay, infrastructure decay, you were at the epicenter

of the crisis and your revenues were dependent on real-estate taxes you were also known as the dynamic new mayors of america -- >> thank you. that's news to me. >> that is what other people have told me and i am prepared to stipulate that it's true. [laughter] >> we will see. the jury is out. anyway -- >> why don't you give us a sense of how you were going to approach dealing with the problems of fresno, and it might be interesting as you do it if you feel like expanding and on the question steve ray is and how you create an environment of the balance one of restricted abuse, then you want to find balancing you don't prevent the use of discretion and accept the fact you want to get the right balance between the two. >> thank you very much, mr. secretary, first of all steve's comments are dead on and he's got a lot of experience much more than i read my observation as the city mayor of

fresno the last two years and then being in leadership and economic diplomat ten years prior to that, absolutely dead on. what we have to do the local level as that to date and that is why we can develop the civil entrepreneurial skill, and i think frankly fresno is one of the most severely communities because of such restrictions on the things that we like to do. but it actually produces a mosul, civic or entrepreneurship. i want to start by saying thank you to the brookings institution and the hamilton project for shining a light today on a long-term distressed communities. i can't tell you how grateful i am to the work project has done to surface some of the things as the mayor of fresno that has dealt with long term economic disadvantage. it is like water on the try sponge to have this conversation today, so i'm very, very grateful, and just to give you a little bit of context so you know from which i speak i want to tell you about my city and

first but me say i am wholeheartedly in support of the idea their needs to be a national discussion, national policy on how we really focus on the distressed communities. it is the case that a lot of resources go to people scattered across the country as a result there is no focus, no target and we are not shifting in any significant way in these places that show up. i love that the paper calls for the focus on concentrated communities in the region. the city of fresno is a city of 500,000 people in the middle of california. we like to say we are the heart of california. it's the fifth largest city in the state and we've got los angeles, san diego, san jose, san francisco and fresno which comes as a surprise to people we are larger than sacramento, large beach, anaheim and santa ana. we are situated in the largest ag production region in the world. we feed one-third of the world out of fresno county every year, one-third of the world and for the consequences brinkley, and it's been a very difficult to

shine the light on through the tail end of being this supplier of food and yet we dealt with many economic and social consequences as a result. the founder of the production and fresno county last year was 5.3 billion that's one county out of the eight county region that makes up the silicon dolly. there's over 100 crops and i know many regions in the country have large massive agriculture but they do one thing they make wheat or cotton or soybean. we do everything, every fruit and nut and a grain product you can imagine a tremendous diversity of product, and it is a blessing and the bounty that we've seen in the agricultural industry hasn't spilled over into economic bounty so the people who live in our community. before the recession and unemployment rate in fresno county was at its lowest because the housing boom and the population growth we did housing on steroids as was said, but coupled with our dependence on an industry that competes on

one-tenth of 1% of 1 penny globally returns very little to our community, but we do tend to grow and we have a very high internal birth rate and that means we build houses so we did housing on steroids. our lowest unemployment we've seen the last 30 years was 6.3% in 2006 so that was the height of the bubble. if you look at the state record on unemployment in fresno county lansing online the truck back to 1980 and if you look over the last 30 years you can count on one hand the number of times the average on a plan agreed of fresno county dropped below double digits, four or five times the last 30 years. and in some cases, the 90's i was finishing my graduate work at that time, unemployment was 16, 17% and right now in the city of fresno it is 15.5 some places in fresno county is as high as 40%. 40%.

in 2005 the brookings institution revealed in its report katrina's window the city of fresno, the city of fresno has the highest concentration of any other large city in the united states and this is before it was done to find out new orleans of a sudden katrina happened and we see this footage of people in poverty we can't be beat the policy is like this in america so the study was done atop city produced based on the census data was this to be based on louisville, miami, atlanta, new york. so all of that could say i love the fact you released today site that willson's work but concentrated areas of economic distress long duration of economic distress causes an erosion of pretty much everything in your community that certainly has been true in fresno putative so i'm finished with the misery index. [laughter] but that's the context. now let's turn the page. what has been going on to address the fact that 30, 40

years of social and economic and environmental erosion has taken place. it can from pacific entrepreneurial machine steve talked about about ten years ago the university business and civic leaders got together after the great economic expansion of the nineties and early 2000, the new economy, knowledge base hit california in the world and our region was left behind completely and was startling for us to were business leaders at the time in the community so we rallied to the there was not the federal government, it wasn't state government and it wasn't even city government because at that time we were dealing with the long-term effect of the sort of economic erosion and close political commotion and insufficient leadership at every level so it came from outside government. we came up with our game plan which bruce talked about and then they work the plan. we developed the plan called the regional jobs initiative that focuses on our industry or the

export oriented industries and aggregates certainly but other industries beyond that and then we've been working on the plan. we've gone after innovation reformed industry cluster organizations for those we were focused on to try to enhance the productivity and bring resources to them in a coordinated way so i like to focus on manufacturing extension program. i would have one caution on that though. low-cost surface oftentimes means low-quality, and so we don't have the program in fresno but we have relied on the university centers and others. sometimes there is a reason why people are in a governmentlç consulting work. [laughter] so it would be incumbent upon anybody would be expanding the program to get the best and brightest and get the topic for whoever and really provide high-quality advice to improve productivity. we launched a series of university based industry focused centers including the

international center for water technology, water energy technology business incubator which we believe is the only in the country and nobody has proven the wrong yet and the institute for food, nutrition and innovation and we launched the center for innovation and entrepreneurship as one of the top-rated programs and entrepreneurship in the country. we are ranked number seven by entrepreneur magazine's after a 93 or four years ago. in other words we are teaching students they have to upon graduation they have to start a business and that is to learn that business read the book is an entrepreneur should and business creation is absent from the discussion today it is hugely important even if it doesn't result in the company growing up in your community, the skill that are in part in the entrepreneurial push -- pursuit are valuable for the community and that is a big focus for us. we also had a major focus on job training and matching skills of workers with jobs are available as was pointed out in your paper. it is the case that in fresno we have had thousands of jobs

effect today thousands that go unfilled because the mismatch between the people and the people looking for work and those required on the job. the local one-stop center has done a major work to use the national norms, skills, testing skills to make sure that we are qualified people for the jobs that exist, and really are pushing on the community colleges to provide the job training that we know the industry requires and that has been a big focus for us. the capitol has been absent, we've had to go out and start and now after an early stage as well and then we've been doing credit things in the government sector. we lobbied the government schwarzenegger to create a regional partnership of local elected officials and local business leaders as well as state cabinet secretaries all sitting on one board to coordinate the regional plan. the the entire region, and i served as the director of community and economic development at fresno state and was leading those efforts and to bruce's point about what are the communities to been to restore

the waterfront and about the quality the city of fresno, that is what we have to do, that is where jobs we're going after the quality, addressing the policies that have resulted in decay in the urban part of fresno in the neighborhoods of concentrated poverty so that is our work and also adel education and basic skills. look, there are no short cuts, there simply aren't. i wish there were and maybe for some communities that are just simply experiencing the result of the recession may be taken spring back to the communities we are talking to today, there are no shortcuts. so we've got to deal with the issues that relate to the basic skills, lack of education and we're going after the adults because we know if we can get the adults and basic skills training even if it is a little bit and get them into some kind of a product of a role the lives of their kids are instantly stabilized and would be so much better in the case for all system while the focus is on the adult population. anyway, is the proof in the pudding?

ortiz working? we can't show it in the data yet and i always the first to say save your applause until the end. i know that i was invited here today because we have the history of being in a distressed community. i was also asked i hope because we are doing innovative things to address what's been going on in the community a long time to reply wasn't invited here today because we fixed it, but hopefully someday i will be. [laughter] and then we can applaud but in the meantime we still have a lot of work to do. >> i can see why people prefer to you as extremely dynamic. but be as you this if i may read two very quick questions if i may. number one, you obviously it sounds like at least you made a lot of progress on working on the artificial lines we have with cities, states, towns and so forth. does that look to you as if that is working reasonably well and you found ways to actually -- second is the related question will be unrelated, i'm not sure,

where are the fiscal resources plan to come from to fund the kind of things you're talking about? >> the first question is easier to answer, and we have come a long way in overcoming the parochial interest. it wasn't that long ago that the fresno region lost out on the location of the newest campus because there were fighting between the city and the county and the location and it's not far from fresno but it is in a place that just doesn't make sense economically and that is just one example of many of the opportunities we've missed out on because we haven't cooperated so i cannot say enough about cooperation. i think a lot of times in the government arena and nonprofits as we serve as a nonprofit executive before we did a lot of what breeding but we don't actually collaborate often. so there's a big difference between cooperating which means we hang out and talk and know what each other is doing but we don't share resources, we don't do any kind of joint planning and we don't, so the coley during i believe is underway in fresno.

now having put together fresno region collaborative and now i'm the mayor of fresno nothing replaces the fact the city of fresno has to be a strong capable functioning entity to be a good partner and so my focus has gone from caring that everybody's talking and collaborating back to we are missing the fundamentals and it is our responsibility to get those right in order to support effective partnership so that is the focus. in terms of funding, you know, it's really a tragedy -- well, you asked me earlier the federal a permit, they are the ones who have the money. will we have never seen any kind of large federal levels and in the fresno and the u.s. congressional research staff released a report in 2000 but that should our federal direct per capita expenditure read in the valley, which has some of the hardest hit areas is 32% less than the national average. the good news is we are not used to the handouts at all. we have to figure out on our

own. i would love to be proven wrong and i would love for someone to show up with a big truck of money but i'm not looking for it any time soon. that means we have to be smart with what we have and we spend money into the recent past. i think there is some increment we can find locally so that hopefully the momentum is sparked and then investment comes from outside of the year yeah. >> about 30 seconds. >> been back to my teaching days so i can get more abstract because the mayor is just too dynamic. [laughter] and less sanguine about the relationship of the cities, counties and the regions of the state. there is a lot of parochialism so my postscript is the media moment in time here now where when i was the mayor and there was this continuing flight to the suburbs, i crave this kind of zero some situation.

i think have made this regionally, it's not clear to me that being suburban to a highly concentrated area of poverty where the folks live in despair and have no hope for future is really good for you and there may be opportunities for the other regions to follow what the mayor has done on not just the moral imperative that kind of enlightened self-interest imperative as well. >> michael, but probably brings us to you. why don't you briefly tell us what the list is because i'm not sure everyone is totally familiar. it's the largest -- let me say in full disclosure i happen to be the chairman -- [laughter] and have been for quite some time, but is the nation's largest development organization so why don't you give the sense you dealt with the stress around the country usually the communities better the focus of poverty for generations, so it's

a slightly different description than fresno despite you're longstanding problems. we want to get a sense how you approach this strategically. >> thank you. let me begin by saying how refreshing it was for me to hear the first panel and its emphasis on the strategies for the distressed communities. they've been there for a long time and will have and always had a lot of companies of it's nice to hear economists talking in those terms these days. it started 30 years ago and we basically have two goals at the time. one was to work with community-based organizations in their efforts to revitalize their neighborhoods, and the second was to try to attract private capital into the same communities. and i think we have had a fair degree of success over the years. the command to develop and industry itself has grown by leaps and bounds, and lisc, as one who nonprofit organization, we raise and invest in over $10 billion in these communities, leveraging another

30 billion, which has produced close to 300,000 affordable homes and apartments and over 40 million square feet of the retail commercial and community facilities. but as we were approaching strategic planning process in 2006, we realized even with that progress something was still missing. we realized if we were serious about creating healthy and sustainable communities that would attract people of all income levels to live and work and raise their families that we have to begin to take on the other issues, the of the daunting issues these communities face by jobs, education, health care, safety, access to arts and culture and recreation, all the things that make for healthy communities. they have to take them on simultaneously in an integrated and comprehensive way. so in 2006 we developed a strategy we call building

sustainable communities. was based on a program that we had piloted several years earlier in chicago, and basically it is an effort to take on five fundamental program objectives in selected targeted neighborhoods in 40 cities across the country. now one of the five program objectives first is to continue to increase investment in housing and other forms of real estate. that is the core competency is what brought us to advance and we think it is still important and we continue to do that. the second is to expand family income and wealth. we do that in a variety of ways, the flagship of the program at the moment is something that we call financial opportunity centers. these are one-stop shops people can get a job placement, placement and job training, access to public benefits and financial counseling and coaching. 32 of the centers and nine cities so far and we are going to double that over the next

couple of years with a grand we just got from the white house social innovation fund. our third goal is expanding economic development activity and trying to connect to the neighborhoods where we were to the larger economy. again, we do that in a variety of ways that we the commercial revitalization program that we've had for a long time investing in shopping centers. we've invested in over 40 supermarkets and grocery stores across the country and we've invested over $600 million of the new markets tax credits for the economic development activity. the fourth goal, expanding access to quality education. i don't think any of us believe that we can turn the neighborhoods around if we don't do something about the schools. to date, most of what we have done is with charter schools. we've invested in over 120 charter schools across the country, but recently we have begun to move into other programs areas and education as well like after-school programs,

remedial program, service learning programs, parental involvement programs and the light. finally, the fifth goal, supporting healthy environments and lifestyles. under that rubric comes to grain building program, green jobs program which we have done recently, our communities if the initiative where we work with local police departments to lower the crime rate in the targeted neighborhoods, healthcare we've invested in over 25 holes clinics around the country and recreation we've had a longstanding program in the national football league where we've invested in 150 youth football fields across the country. so in short, buy taking on these five new program goals, we are trying to bring the human dimension to the physical dimension of the neighborhood revitalization. and although i just kicked off a series of programs and projects, i want to make clear that this strategy, this building sustainable community strategy

is not about individual programs and practice. it's about how those programs and projects work together, wolf and her together in a mutually reinforcing way to create a greater scale impact, and it's about the creation of a network of relationships at the neighborhood level among organizations, institutions and individuals in those neighborhoods that we can build on going forward and will be there for the long haul. so i just want to close by saying obviously we roll this strategy out in july of 2007 when we could not have picked a worse time to roll out a strategy like this. and the economic crisis that we faced over the last several years has no doubt been a setback for us. but at the same time, the strategy is getting attraction in numerous communities across the country where we were to read it has resonated with local stakeholders in a real way and

it is also very compatible with the obama administration's efforts to break down the silos to create greater coordination and integration among the programs. so even with all of the challenges that we are facing, we think we are on the right track and a clear hit in the right direction.? >> we are going to throw the -- thank you, michael. we are going to throw this open to questions. i but to ask one before the audience. what you are doing in youngstown, ohio is a ceo of the company, of course the shale situation is a special circumstance in terms of remaining in youngstown, but the ceo of a company in another area were to come to you and say you are staying here and that's important, why would you suggest i do closing a plant in order to try to march in the resource to make this an economically sensible thing to do, what advice would you give them?

>> i think in our case as we said before we build on that or strength, so my advice would be to look where your strengths are and in our case regardless of the marcella shettle, that is where our strength and technical confidence and we felt to relocate or reestablish that in a different location would slow the project down, so the market is important which it was for us and for most. i think you have to look first where your strengths are and try to build them before you can consider an alternative site. >> have either of the former mayor or the current mayor experienced companies that could relate to the description of his experience in youngstown? >> we probably all have. indiana is not far from ohio. some of the same issues.

i would respond this way. if a city doesn't get the fundamentals right it cannot incentivize the company to stay there. the taxes are high, the sewers don't work and the job force is not prepared and it takes an awful lot of incentives and then you can attract one factory as a attack and you are not ordering to resolve the issue for one. so all four of these public partnerships i use them frequently but you have to say that we are using these on top of a foundation that works and second, as the mayor said they tend to make more sense when they are kind of changed the phrase investment or at the core competitive views that a buildup ancillary uses are all but otherwise you run the danger of running from event to event contrast to having a strategy play out. >> i would concur. our focus has been on expanding the company that fit.

we have a lot to identify with the core competency is. but already existed and some level of increase concentration we identified water, technology, value added food-processing and some things that were natural for us to be competitive in, and then we went out to the companies in many cases very small firm based never been contacted by anybody from local government. they really are not connected to their peers and we started to network those companies. we haven't had an experience like youngstown where there is a major company looking to invest. maybe that is next for us we are competing for an $800 million high-speed rail having maintenance facility, but that really is about the fundamental and then we know they will be much more persuasive and competitive with attraction strategies if we are getting their retention expansion and the creation part as well. >> i will make one comment and then go to questions. i first read your scats a long time ago talk about building the

core competencies or another term would be comparative advantages. what are your comparative of vantage is a national global economy because it seems that made an enormous amount of sense and i do wish to some of the issues that you've raised but it seems to me that really could be in national growth strategy if it is thought through and put to scale and as important but you got all the regulatory levels and others. >> i think it is why the focus of the natural level is so the important because you can't do that from the top down. it has to be organic and authentic for the region, and there are nuances that simply don't show up, for example a lot of technology would spark a lot of innovation and research grants and companies to locate facilities in fresno really you would never see the blip on the scale. it came from local business leadership highlighting comparative advantage for the region and it comes down to people of you have civic entrepreneur leadership to

champion it makes a huge difference. >> why don't we now -- >> i just want to go back to what steve goldsmith said earlier because it really resonated with me. you ask the question where do you find the resources to do all these things. i think most of the resources are already there. it's just a question if we could -- in terms of what we do, if we could get federal resources flowing to the local level without all of the bells and whistles and the strains and regulations and what not, you know most of the federal resources that come about at the end of the day it's about compliance, it isn't about carrying out the program objective is about complying with all of the regulation. if we can get the money coming into the local level in a more integrated way without all of those regulations, i think the resources exist, and i think we already know how to do a lot of these things we just can't do it because we are stuck in the

silos. skycam and about compliance all the time because we have the kind of increasing complaints as the corporation allen case was the founder and moving from the local to the federal doing a great job funding the city and he said yeah. how were we doing? well, it cost 25 cents in compliance for every dollar you give commesso and your world it gets even worse. >> i was going to say that's pretty good. >> the other way round. the [laughter] >> we could do this all day i think but why don't we -- why don't we all open panel for questions. mr. secretary? >> it's not i would have made four months ago. i've just written a book which is going to publish on october october 18th when i wrote the book i thought of thinking people but help me like for

example elliot richardson, i met him at the first day of law school after i finished first in my class kind of a bills judge for philip frankfurter [inaudible] but that's how i got my first job. what i really want you to turn your mind to, when are the american people going to realize at the same time the pilgrims came here there was another group that came here, black people, and i think they have the same range of talent as anybody else and i always thought until two months ago when the chairmanship landed 22

blacks in virginia they were slaves. that's not true, only three were slaves. the altar 19 with a servant because the british had a rule if you're episcopalian you couldn't be a slave. also just recently i found out that only 4% of white people in the south owned slaves. and what i would suggest if you take a look at the talented i think you'll find their ability is the same range as anybody else. and the great problem is it's all right to talk about the city's. my father was the director of the boys' club and he trained a lot of people, but, you know, despite rich people into the suburbs, and therefore the whole idea, and the great tragedy when franklin roosevelt decided to do something on housing, he wouldn't follow eleanor roosevelt's advice, he sold only

to white. the first one to start selling to black causing blacks to get out was bill clinton, followed by bush, and then the banks took a lot of the money because you will find that those president's call them all the time ask them to do it. that's why we had the problem. i really think if you say at the same time the whites came from europe and other places black people came here and had the same of ability and talent. my father was the director of the boys' club. he trained a lot of people, but i don't think that those people that and up running corporations and doing other things usually from that source, and if you finally turn your mind to that, the guy who is the head of american express now, he was a poor boy but now the ceo of american express. you will find if you look at

that 100 of the companies listed on the stock exchange today have a black ceo or black guy who is general counsel. i'd think you've got to do what he would do for your own people. mainly that you would change your kids, teach them to do better than the kids before. rather than all this local stuff the government can give you because the government really can't give you anything without causing a debt, and it makes it worse finally i really think you begin to think that way rather than the way we thought the last 50 years. >> thank you. i must say prez would first of your class at harvard law school is good proof of your point. i said a graduate and first of your point of harvard law school is a good proof of your point to respond michael, what you want to respond? there is a really important question their. race has been part of the problem of distress in the inner

cities and yet it seems to me there's been enormous progress. of the company's now african-american ceos and general counsel said just it is something good and real that has changed in america that we recognize these enormous problems. >> how do we deal with the people who've been the victims of replicating to the generations that was the question i was when to ask. scaap well, i think that's frankly what all this conversation has been about. >> part has been about the communities hit back and then became distressed by know a lot of what you've done -- >> the first panel focused on the plight of long-term distressed communities and that is really what we are talking about and frankly that is where we do most of our business and that is what we are trying to deal with. i think -- all i will say the obvious. in the long run i think it is about education. i think you're going to do with the secretary is talking about, then people have to be given equal access to a call the

education. that is the bottom line. and we just have to do a better job of doing that and there are a lot of other things i think go along with that. if you focus on the schools exclusively and ignore what these kids are dealing with in the rest of community then you're not one to deal with the whole. you can't expect schools to deal with everything so you do have to take a more comprehensive view but i think in many ways the schools have to be at the center of that. >> other comments? >> i got elected agreeing with michael it's the least i can do. >> did you do it? >> yes i did and it worked most generally. but -- at this point in the psychiatry's comment, so the issue in indianapolis today and even new york city has a higher concentrated area of poverty obviously as that company of

indianapolis, was the mayor i can do that, so the path to the middle class for an african american family is to get out of the city. so you do have a very significant strain between place based and people based opportunity, and if you are an african-american male kid and you have 25% chance of graduating from the local high school, your family will get you out of town if they can. so now we have these concentrated areas, and i was looking at the new york city statistics. if you came from -- and i started in child support working for mom's and understanding the work they've done but if you're born in a single-family household with 55% chance of being poor in new york city and if you're born to parents, 17%, so it's not -- it isn't the situation we have to be for sale driven by come it's the concentration of poverty that is

disproportionately black and hispanic and the inability of folks in those communities to have true opportunity. >> you're doing things to resolve it but it's not just a house here or school here. >> i think, look, what you are saying, to knock on why do over the years on community development has always been that while as soon as somebody can be are going to get out and go to a better place, which is fine for them, but what they leave behind is the same community with the same intractable problems, and so we are trying to -- we are trying to make those communities more attractive to people not only won't leave the you might even attract more people in so that you have more of an income mix, decent schools people want to go to and these communities themselves can improve so they are not just constantly turning over and always, you know, taking on the most difficult problem in respect i got this

against look from joe klein. if you took equally poor kids and one in a highly concentrated and look how they compare, the poor kid in the next income school performs remarkably better than the poor kid in -- this is intuitively obvious but it makes the point to the extent you can create diverse neighborhood on economics. >> i think we have time for one or two more questions. right there. >> it seems to me the theme of the last panel was evaluation and maybe the declining federal appetite for the large scale social experiments like them experimental housing program or the national -- negative income tax experiments. and the femur this panel less flexibility, if only we didn't have the constraints of local governments to the nonprofits and the for-profit sector or state to local or federal to

local we could innovate, so i wonder if we can tidies together and talk about one way of getting around the last perhaps federal support for large experiments is to let a thousand flowers bloom and have more flexibility a local level so do you see any trend in terms of waivers i think to discuss silo's a little while ago and how is that changed over time is their anyone paying attention to the results of local level and who can kind of put all of these lessons together in the central clearing house so that we benefit from >> there is a -- the agency actually has the job trying to make sense out of regulation which is why a wendi as you know and they can make the case they should be applied in some kind of cost-benefit analysis to the regulation that come to the federal government. i don't know whether that has happened or not, but that is basically their mission.

>> i would say quickly of the body of the federal level as the intention was to win at the local level i'm going to go out and slit my wrists because -- [laughter] i think we have to do a better job of evaluation. i agree with the first panel. i think one of the real tragedies in the field on the mn is frankly we haven't done a very good job of measuring anything, and it's still highly anecdotal. i still say the best way to show people what we do index plan is put them in a bus and taken on a tour. that is no way to do it. so, we got frustrated so we invented our own research component where we are searching our own program. it is always going to be suspect with the purist, but at least we are making an attempt in the direction, but i think the general proposition that we have to measure what we are doing better and do a better job of evaluating the outcomes is in the long run the only thing that

is going to work because we are being held increasingly accountable for those kind of outcomes and if we can't prove what we are doing is working they aren't going to get resources and they shouldn't be. >> i would just comment from a practitioner standpoint. i think for us in fresno the first major issue we to deal with was simply the fact that there was no connection, communication or coordination print a local, federal and state level, and what we knew was that everything was very, very onerous and we just assumed there was nothing that could be done, that there was no flexibility at all, that was based on just kind of the myth of what we know what is the federal and state government sui started breaking through that frankly something the was done on paper that in the up yielding a pretty good result backed when president clinton was in office there was a hotly contested congressional race going on in that area so the incumbent

congress member at the time lobbied the president to sign an exhibit of order that created the federal interagency task force for the economic diplomat of the valley. absolutely no money went to this, it was a stroke of the pen that said every agency in the region has to sit at the table with local people and state people and figure out what he can do to help each other and when it started it was meetings and the last thing you to do is sit down and talk to people from the doe, it just seemed like it was very overwhelming. but frankly the fremont civic entrepreneurs, and we have one of the most entrepreneurial people of anybody i've worked with. and he is a fed for crying out loud. [laughter] and he brought his colleagues to the table and he fell in a local business leaders specifically terse and we didn't know what they could do and what they couldn't do and we found there was more flexibility than we realized but we just didn't

know. then we realized the state said we would love to help you with this but the state is nowhere to be found, and i was in california so it's like living in a world in and of itself. but we took the model the fed had put together and we want to governor schwarzenegger and said you are missing in action here. the valley of california is a dirty little secret and we are going to expose but you are not dealing with the issue if you don't cooperate in some way. very little recourse when there was money in california that would like to million dollars on the table to create this regional table with the state folks, the fed and locals working together and now that money is expired and the partnership continues. we found more flexibility than we thought. we've also found very specific constraints but now we are educated and armed with information for example when the work force investment act reauthorize that some point and we had specific recommendations we will be making because we know what we are talking about now and we couldn't effectively lobby ten years ago. we didn't know.

>> okay for second answers. >> or block grant would help, the only agency that recognize this this it even exists, there's no man in america thinking that he or she gets a fair deal and so passing the dollars through the states is a recipe for a lot of spending. the social innovation fund from president obama, very small. mike was one of the winners and new york city was another. it's a totally different program that says tell us what you are going to do. we will give you the money and measure results. we are going to tell you from a government request proposal where we want you to do and we are going to judge whether to match what we want and not what needs to be done. it would move to a broad fraiman that would make a difference sir, you could get people to places like vultures and use of tax credits and other things that have less purchasing the system and treasury issues, but

of leased the of less kind of commotion on the way down. last, if we are serious about outcomes the money ought to follow the outcome, to the controversy will example people would argue this is one of them, and i'm about done, whether head start is a success or failure, some people say it is a failure, but everyone would agree if you look at the last gao study the bottom is 20% of head start is a failure, the bottom the week and is a failure, but the chances of that money reprogrammed is something that follows the outcome, so if we are serious than congress, state legislators, local city have to have the money to repurchase, the money is repurchased for the things you're talking about. those are ways to approach it. >> let me thank the panel. you've been terrific. [applause] >> the states and localities are going to play a larger role on the economic growth for all kind of reasons.

i'm now going to ask lee to join us and introduce the next speaker is an extraordinary involvement of economic growth. roger? and there will be no break now by the way, we will just go straight9 ç é >> let's take a look at some of our live coverage tonight. in the nevada race, harry reid and his competitor sharon engel will hold their only live televised debate. then more live coverage of the

campaign at 10:00. we will hear from candidates in the washington state senate race. later, the nevada third district in debate. that will be alive at 11:00 eastern on c-span. first lady michelle obama is out campaigning for democrats. she spoke in colorado today. earlier in the day, she was in her hometown of chicago, where she passed an early ballot. next mrs. obama heads to california. before she had tom, she will stop in connecticut and , shengton -- heads home will stop in connecticut and washington state. >> c-span content of vehicles are traveling the country as we look at some of the most closely

contested races leading up to the midterm elections. >> in florida, a seventh term incumbent has been in congress for 14 years. his opponent won a five way primary in august. the national election committee has already spent a lot of money aligning representative and boyd with speaker pelosi and president obama. there is a lot of frustration with the economy and particularly the debate over the health care vote. that was a very big in the congressman's congressional district. town halls that got

very loud. that was a precursor to what this race is going to be like. he voted in favor of the health care legislation. in the first round, he voted against the legislation. he since voted for it, and he was one of the key swing votes in the second round when it was passed. he had a tough primary against a long term legislator here. boyd when that 51%-49%, a lot closer than many people thought. he did not get an obama endorsement in that race, which obviously would have helped him, but looking to the general, he did not want to have that around his neck. the health care vote is emblematic of the larger debate, which is a referendum on the obama administration.

he is a blue dog democrat, fiscally conservative. he is running on a platform of fiscal conservatism. that is the base of his political philosophy. he has a strong presence with the military in his district. he is running as a conservative, which runs counter to what the republicans are going to paint him as. sutherland is a funeral director. he won a five-way race in the primary. he has raised a considerable amount of money, but not compared to congressmen and boyd. he is going to get a lot of help from the outside. florida has a majority of registered democrat voters in in this 16 county panhandle,

including where this district is. however, many of those registered democrats are old- line and dixiecrats. they are registered democratic, but they are very conservative and they have no compunction about crossing over and voting for republican candidates. president obama did not carry this congressional district in 2008. he did carry florida. this is about how democrats are going to do in this cycle. how many seats are they going to lose in the house? holding on to this seat is going to be key to any hope of doing that, as far as limiting losses that are going to be felt elsewhere. >> c-span's local content vehicles are traveling the country, visiting congressional district as we look at some of the most closely contested

races leading up to the midterm election. for more on what the local content vehicles are up to this season, visit our web site, c- span.org. >> sunday, justice stephen breyer. >> sometimes it is hard to put away your basic values. those basic fundamental, legal and political values are part of view and they will sometimes influence your -- part of you and they will sometimes influence the part of you were the question is open. >> sunday, a landmark supreme court cases on c-span radio.

>> this case presents the question whether dying citizens have the liberty to cross the threshold in a humane manner. >> a doctor counsels patience considering assisted suicide. listen to the case on c-span radio. nationwide on ex-im satellite radio channel 132 and online at c-span.org. >> hey students, get ready for it the annual c-span documentary competition. this year's theme is in washington, d.c. through my lessons. for more information, go to -- through my lens. for more information, go to c- span.org. >> coming up next, the ohio

ninth district congressional debate. that is followed by the debate between majority leader harry reid and sharon angle. our coverage continues with a live debate. the ohio and ninth district congressional debate. iott drew attention last week when a photo of him in a nazi surfaced.hrough this is one hour and 10 minutes.

>> the toledo free press presents you decide 2010. faceht, the candidate's off in the battle for the district's congressional seat. now, from downtown toledo, here is our host. >> welcome to the congressional district 9 debate put on by fox toledo. we appreciate all of you tinning in it today. we want to introduce the candidates. the incumbent is serving her 14th term in the house of representatives, marcy captor. the republican and is challenging for that seat. our sponsor is leadership toledo.

our questions dunite -- tonight will be coming from our panel. we will have live transcript blogging. that will be available on the website foxtoledo.com. some ground rules tonight. they are going to be pretty basic. each candidate will have a two minute opening statement. once the question is asked, the candidate will have three minutes to answer. you will have one minute to respond to the other person if you would like. if you do not want to, you do not have to. the three minutes is yours. you can make the decision of what to do. we have a good crowd here tonight and we are asking them to be extra quiet.

without further ado, we are going to get to our opening statements of the evening. to start with that, marcy kaptur. >> i will like to thank foxx toledo and the toledo free press for sponsoring this evening. this is about the future of our country and our district. it is a great honor to serve the people of our region. i love the people that live here, and we have sort hard together to try to build our community forward economically and socially. jobs must be our number one priority, jobs in america, good jobs with excellent wages and benefits that you can depend on. as we looked around the region

and see the refinancing of general motors and chrysler, and thousands of people called back to work, i know that would not have been possible without the votes that i cast. over 5000 people across our community have been directly affected by paychecks that come from those plants. in addition, look at all of the improvements we have been making across this region, building our rail capacity as well as preparing for high-speed rail. if we look at the buckeye based in greenbelt parkway, u.s. 24, so many of the improvements we have made to provide rail, over land ports, and transportation, we are making a difference for the future generations.

we looked at each the tourism, agriculture, and so many of the areas in which we're making progress. we will talk more about that tonight. thank you for joining us. >> and now for his opening statement, rich iott. >> thank you for giving us the opportunity for this debate. thank you to all of the members of the audience who came here tonight. over the course of the next hour, i look forward to talking about the issues of the day, and we will talk about those issues, but i want to start tonight by speaking directly to you, marcy. i want to talk about your latest coordinated attempt at character assassination. you and i have known each other for 25 years. you know my family. i have contributed personally to your campaign in the past. together we have done a lot for

this community. but now because you want to win reelection so badly, you have thrown all of that out the window. you'll have coordinated an attack that has tried to brand meat and not see. me a nazi because i participated in some reenactments. this shows more about your character than it does about me. it shows that you do not care about the truth. you proved that with the first campaign ad in this case which proved to be completely false by two independent agencies. you still codify your lies. now if you think about it, you should be my strongest defender, because you know these allegations are false. you would think that you would be able to rise up above the politics and do what is right, but you are not.

instead, you are standing on those allies and you are doing it all because you are desperate for -- standing on in those lies, and you're doing it all because you are desperate to hold onto your power in washington, d.c. this is why people hate politics. >> i am going to stop you there so that we can keep it on time. i will give you a chance to respond to that of bunning statement. -- to that opening statement. >> did in your campaign play any part in bringing the photographs of his re-enactment group to the media's attention? >> actually, the media brought it to my attention. my opponent says i have known him for 25 years. i met my opponent for the first time this year, this summer,

when i walked up to him at the parade. i introduced myself to them. i really do not know him. i know what we have learned through this campaign. i have more to say on this, but i am very disappointed in your opening statement attacking us. you of the metal through the campaign. you have been very negative. the actualize you have put up there about our campaign -- but i think we should be talking about the future year. you should be taking responsibility for your call and actions, not trying to shift the blame to someone else -- for your own actions, not trying to shift the blame to someone else. >> your involvement with the re-

enactment group has garnered national and international criticism which you have addressed this evening. that criticism includes a comment by republican eric cantor. he basically said that your involvement with the group, if you understand that media attention is likely to be more intense, how can you defend that? >> i think his remark was typical of career politicians to jump in and take the stand without knowing all of the facts. he could not have known all of the facts. we tried to reach out to his office and talk to him, and they would not do it. this is what you happen when you have career politicians who want to make decisions without all of the facts. what do they do?

if they vote on the health care bill without knowing what is in it. they vote on a stimulus package that is not complete. this is the exact kind of problem we have in washington, and i have expressed that clearly on a number of news programs today. >> do you feel nervous that the house minority whip repudiates your involvement? >> not at all. i do not believe he speaks for the entire party. >> thank you for your time. we will switch up the order a little bit. let me ask you this. one of the complaints raised during the campaign is that you did not accept invitations to town halls when it came to the debate over health care. do you feel you met adequately with your constituents? >> yes, we certainly dead. we not only met with a broad a ray of -- yes, we certainly did. we not only met with a broad a

of citizens, we did so on many occasions. what we did not do was put ourselves in a position to be shouted at by people were opposed and came to meetings specifically to catcall, yell at members and gave an unbecoming ways -- behavior unbecoming ways. when we are able to have a real dialogue, to get people suggestions, i took many of those suggestions and put them in the bill. i want to thank the citizens of this region. over 40 million americans will now have access to affordable insurance. in ohio, children will be able to remain on at their parents' plans up until 28 years of age.

you will not go broke if you happen to get sick. in addition to that, medicare was extended by an additional 12 years until 2029. this is an incredible achievement. for those who got caught in the whole -- donut hole , they will not have to pay an extra amount once they reached the caps. if we can put a man on the moon, we can figure out how to have competitive insurance plans. >> thank you very much. mr. iott, would you like to respond to that? >> i find it funny that she talked about how hard she tried to get to the people in these town hall meetings. i was in one of these meetings. she did not show up.

if that is because she thought the audience was going to be rude, i am not sure how she could no the audience was going to be rude. in fact, the meeting went on without her and the audience was very professional, got up there and said what they had to say and then stepped down. the second thing i want to say about health care is that health care is turning out to be everything we thought it would not be. costs are going up. companies are seeing insurance rates go up. we cut half a trillion dollars out of medicare. we cannot possibly do that without cutting services. 70% of the people on medicare advantage are losing it. this will health care bill is not a good thing. >> on march 19th of this year, the federal elections commission showed that you made a contribution of $500.

you listed your employer as the state of ohio and your job as a soldier. can you explain this? >> i do not remember that specifically. i would like to see verification of that because i do not recall that at all. >> we will work on the verification and test that in the next couple of days. response to that question? >> i would like to speak about health care. >> can we speak to the question -- can we keep it to the question please? >> i have no knowledge of what ever he submitted to the federal elections commission. >> bros is very much. -- thank you very much. >> why have you declined invitations from conservative groups such as the children of liberty to speak or to be interviewed by them? >> well, my office handles all

of my appointments. if i happen to be in washington during the week, we generally do try to make phone calls. i am here on weekends. i try to do all of my press evidence of possible. we do have press conferences. i do not know -- do all of my press events if possible. we do have press conferences. i do not know why people do not think i am accessible. >> some organizations might have wanted a special meeting just with you. would you ever decide not to meet with someone because of their ideology? >> i do not believe so. in fact, we were able to speak with many people individually. the children of liberty i do not recall, but i am sure we have

been in touch with members of .hat group' i noticed by a punt and has been campaigning in places that are not his this -- i noticed my campaigning inen places that are not his territory. we are bound by it congressional rules that we stay within the boundaries of our district. >> can you elaborate on where he is going that is not part of the district? >> i saw him and many tea party rallies in frankfurt, for example. he is getting many letters from individuals to support him but are not from the ninth congressional