he has run millions of dollars worth of ads that he has not told us anything. he will not reveal his income taxes. he will not detail his assets and he does not want anyone to know about the price gouging lawsuits that have been filed against pilot. these are >> if you are going to be the governor of tennessee and in what tennessee to do well, west tennessee and memphis have to do well. the governor has to spend a lot

of time here in the campaign. we spent 55 days during the campaign in shelby county and the other 15 in west tennessee. the university of memphis and met this city schools or the largest employers. we have to understand the potential impact around the issues. the challenges facing our next governor are huge. it may be the biggest of any time in the history of our state. we need a governor that has done his homework and is prepared to lead. >> we would now move to the question and answer portion of our debate. >> are moderators will be asking questions this evening. the candidate will have one minute to answer. after that, the other cadet will be allowed one minute for rebuttal. we'll ask as many questions as possible. we asked the candidates to stay within their allotted time. we will cut you off if we have

to. >> good evening to you both. mr. mcwherter, i will start with you. many of our viewers and readers say that lack of jobs is their number-one issue. both you and your opponent have talked a lot about job growth during the campaign, but i would like to ask you specifically what part of your job plan focuses on older workers, people in their 50s and early 60s who are increasingly being unemployed but are not ready for retirement? >> my job plan is across the board picked its effects every -- it affects every city and community across tennessee. i have talked about giving a -- providing a plan of tax incentives and tax credits for small businesses. that is where you see a lot of older employees who are employed across the state of tennessee. it is a plan modeled after what they did in illinois.

the gaping tax credit for every additional job was created. i believe it can be used in tennessee. it will impact everyone involved. it is something we have to develop here in the state of tennessee because older people, and i hate to use that phrase, the older people are the ones most impacted by this economy. i have a solid plan that will help them to find employment. >> i spent yesterday talking to people from the aarp. we talked about that issue a lot. it is critical. the number of people in that age group is going to almost be up 40% 15 years from now.

what i have seen is that there is a huge value in understanding the experience of our workers. i have seen that but this a mayor and in business. ien i got to knot's bill, sell a lot of our workers -- knoxville, i saw a lot of workers. haslam, i have heard you say you do not like the question i am about to ask because you do not think it reflects a legitimate issue. the question is about transparency in government. i can assure you that in this part of the state, transparency

is an issue of more than passing interest to a lot of people. you have refused to open your personal income tax returns to public view on grounds they would reveal nothing the people do not already know about your personal finances or any possible conflict of interest should you sit in the governor's office. so long as your income tax returns or sealed, all you and your accountants can do that. why not let the people make that judgment for themselves? why not trust the judgment of the people? >> first of all, i do not dislike the question. i think it is a fair question. i understand what people ask it. i think it is important. you can project might record out for transparency for what the city did and what i have done as mayor. everybody knows every investment i have made, every asset that i own. there is no secret. the truth is i am not just a candidate.

i am a son, i am a brother, i am and uncle. i honestly believe that everything the people of tennessee want to note they do know. the best thing to do is to judge someone on the record. i have been mayor for seven years. i have lived up to the highest ethical standards. the people of knoxville reelected me with a% of the vote. >> i had a real problem with this. i have fully disclosed my income taxes for the last three years. i have a fully detailed every asset that i possibly own. i disagree with bill haslam on this issue entirely. i think the voters do have a right to know if you have a conflict of interest. he has not been forthcoming with all of his assets or his income taxes. it presents a real quandary.

transparency is very important in the state of tennessee because we need to know if our elected officials are benefiting themselves to the extent of using tennessee taxpayer dollars. on what the people in tennessee to understand exactly where any conflicts of interest i might possibly have -- i think that is a ground war we have worked for in this state. i have never known a major candidate for state office who has one and not shared their information with the vote -- with the voters of tennessee. >> do the rules allow me to have a response? >> if you want to take some time from your answer to the next question that would be fine. >> not to a question submitted to wreg.com. i am a state employee. we have not had a raise in three

years. health insurance has gone up. mr. mcwherter? >> it is clear we have been in a tight budget picture. state employees have been very patient with this situation. it needs to be addressed. there is no question about it. we are asking many of them to do more with much less in the way of support and resources. i definitely want to look at that situation as the opportunity presents itself. if i can get my job plan passed in the legislature, you will have more people at work. when you have more people at work, you have consumers. with consumers, you have a revenue to help move forward and help to move the state board in many ways. i think that should be a priority of the state of tennessee is to look at their workers because we have a huge amount of institutional knowledge that we are going to lose to the private sector. there is no question about it.

i do think that is to be a focus for the next governor of the state of tennessee. how'd you address the needs of our state workers. >> might said something that is not right. every one of my assets have been laid out. a reporter from the commercial appeal has gone through all my investments. there's been a detail list of where my chair took object -- charitable contributions have gone too. it is not fair to say that people do not know what my assets or. i have released all of that. the question is a very important one. the tennessee employees have not had a raise in three years. the blueprint governor bredesen put out does not show another race for two more years. it is too long for a -- for working families to go without a race.

as mayor over the last three difficult years, we have averaged pay raises of over 3%. in hard times -- we even get a market survey to make sure our workers were caught up. >> otis, you had the next question. >> one of your recent tv ads to talk about strengthening prison sentences for repeat offenders. given the fact that the state legislature has been reluctant in recent years to pass additional crime bills, would you expect to find the money to finance your plan for longer prison sentences when you say there is no money for education? >> it is important to look at the whole process for how we determine the fiscal note. there is a lot of disagreement. i have had a lot of talks with the attorney general about his conviction. i think he is one better% right.

strengthening sentencing laws for violent crime will cut back on that more than anything we can do. are we going to pay more now or pay more later? i think we can save money by strengthening sentences. i have talked to attorney general stood up the state. everyone will tell you that the bad guys know what the consequences of their crimes are. at times they are willing to make the gamble on committing a crime because they knew their sentence may not be that long. if we linked and those, -- if we went in those, i think we will see the crime might go down -- if we lengthen those, i think we will see the crime rate go down. >> the legislature address this issue this year. they did lengthen some sentences. they did it by saying it would be revenue neutral.

at the same time they did that, they provided for alternative sentencing as well. if they are right, and i believe there -- i believe they are, that it will be revenue neutral situation. i applaud what the legislature did this year. i think getting some of these violent criminals off the street and giving them longer sentences is exactly what we need to do. we need to remove them from society and make sure that we keep our streets safe. >> the next question goes to norm. >> speaking of television ads, mr. mcwherter, one of your new television spots by asphalt with mr. h -- finds fault with mr. haslam. you all a budweiser distributor ship. budweiser is all by a belgian firm.

are you aware that inbev sold 1 million liters of beer to venezuela? >> norm, i am a customer of anheuser-busch. there is a huge difference between my relationship with them and his relationship with this company in luxembourg to is a full equity partner. i am aware of what you are referring to. nobody from anheuser-busch search on my board of directors. there is a huge difference here between what the relationships are. bill haslam made the statement that his family owned one under% of pilot. i think it is very misleading. it is something that implies it is a small, family-owned business.

clearly he has a partner in luxembourg to is a full-equity partner and has a great deal to say about what is happening at pilot. >> if buying oil from venezuela is a legitimate issue in this campaign, is not selling beer to bells uele not an issue? >> i am not selling beer to venezuela. anheuser-busch is doing that. he is using to import oil from venezuela. had you reconcile that with importing oil from venezuela? >> if you are talking about customers, we are actually a customer of yours. you have not been treating as much light went lightly. if you want to do that kind of one room -- a fair question to ask is can you even sell your

business without their approval? i think the answer is no. you have to have their approval. when they run this clydesdales up and down the tv screen, it is part of their marketing campaign. to say you are a customer of theirs is quite a stretch. the leading importer of oil from venezuela to the united states, all of us to drive cars up and down the road are using their product. we do not import oil. we buy from refineries. it is a silly issue. the people of tennessee want to talk about things that matter like creating jobs. i am disappointed that might continues to go down this path. >> we will go on to one of the questions submitted to wreg.com. but the deal of talk about supporting the university of tennessee school system. the viewer wants to know specifically how you will support the university of

memphis and its endeavors and with the support be equal to that of the ut system. >> i have spent a lot of time at the university of memphis. dr. raines said the memphis research consortium has not done nearly enough attention. i wanted to know what the potential was there? the university of memphis is an urban research institution. if we combine that with applied knowledge with medical device companies that are here because of the logistics capacity, that is a real advantage. when you are competing for jobs, you want to compete for things you have the other people do not. we can build on that to help

memphis reach its full economic potential. >> mr. mcwherter, you get one minute. >> met this has always been a center for medical treatment. people -- and this has always been a center for medical treatment. -- memphis has always been a center for medical treatment. the university of memphis is a priority with me going forward to make sure that we have adequate funding. it serves students throughout this region. i believe that there is a role that they can play with the medical services that are available here in memphis, tenn. that are not available anywhere else. we need to build on their assets and their foundation. >> the next question goes to you, norm.

>> memphis has long been a distribution and transport -- transportation center in the country. it ranks among the top three. yet west tennessee in general have been left out completely of a state government plant to place battery charging stations along busy highways to serve the coming wave of electronic vehicles. the area at this project -- but this project is a triangular corridor. would you be prepared to support a change in this project? >> i am absolutely ready to support mayor mcwherter. we need a governor who understands that there are three regions of the state and each

one should participate equally. yes, i will definitely be an advocate for changing that policy. i am from jackson, tennessee. i cannot a imagine why you cannot have a charging station in jackson that would help to come down to memphis. we definitely need to be participating in that program. that is for the future of tennessee, developing electric powered cars and making us more energy independent. i will be an advocate for west tennessee in that regard. >> that seems like a no-brainer to me. as a mayor, i was pleased to do that in knoxville. we had a great working relationship with the mayor. i think it is an easy problem to fix quite frankly. the answer is, yes. >> the candidates will have a

chance to question each other. we have set some ground rules. >> each candidate will have a total of two minutes to ask a question to the candidate. they're responding candidate will have 45 seconds to respond. we will again with bill haslam to will be asking the first question of mr. mcwherter. >> in a debate last month, i ask you about to under $90 million worth of cuts. you said i was wrong about the cuts. i was hoping that you have studied the budget more since then and you might want to correct yourself. >> bill, i think you are wrong about but that those numbers. i know higher education is taking some cuts. we are asking them to look at their budget very strongly. but i am committed to making sure that we prioritized higher education in the state. tenn-care and cover tennessee

take up 23% of our state budget. it is a huge pool of money that is available to help cover medical costs in our state. gov. bredesen has been very responsible for taking stimulus money and utilizing get on onetime expenses. >> let me ask one more time, as somebody who was to be the governor, do you not understand that we are losing to under $90 million in higher education? >> i do understand that there are cuts coming in higher education and there will be cuts coming under some medical expenses. i think your numbers are absolutely wrong. >> those are printed numbers. i will be glad to give you some day after it is over. >> but mr. mcwherter, it is your chance to ask a question. >> during hurricane ike, your

company was price gouging customers. is that the kind of leadership you're going to provide for tennessee, putting your own interest first? >> i am." surprised how anti-pilot you have been. -- i am surpristed how anti- pilot you have been. during the hurricane, we went to great lengths to get product for our customers. in that process pricing errors were made inadvertently. in this case is the money was refunded to the customers. at the same time, we were sending products to school systems to work out of fuel. we are a company based on 52 years of community service and low prices. we would never do anything intentionally to but that at risk. >> mr. mcwherter you have more

time. >> bill, you got caught price gouging. the attorney general's proved that you were paying around $3.50 a gallon and charging $5 for the same gasoline to customers all across the state. i am flabbergasted that he would try to defend that and not take responsibility. are you going to try to pass the buck? >> not at all. an inverted mistakes were made. i promise you i am being as straightforward as i can. for political reasons you want to keep this going. this is a company that has a 52 year history based on low prices. we would never do anything to jeopardize that. we were actually doing the opposite. when nobody else had fuel for their customers, we were going a long way to meet certain people could get there. mistakes were made. there were corrected. do not happen again. >> we are going to move on to more questions from our panelists.

you will get another chance to question each other's later in the hour. >> mr. haslam, i would give this one to you. movie directors would love to shoot their films in the state, but tennessee does not offer adequate tax incentives such as new orleans or in atlanta. it does not seem to be a priority in nashville. the "blindside" took place in the office but was shot in atlanta. will you gentlemen commit right now to significantly expanding funding to attract filmmakers to tennessee? >> that is an arena we want to compete in. all of us would love to have the

industry here. the problem is when you say commit to expending that, when you're going out to compete for anything you have to be lies with taxpayer dollars. we have some states out there that are not getting nearly the return that they should. the easiest thing in the world would be to say, yes. but i do not think you would want us to do that. you do not want us making return on investment decisions that are not wise for the taxpayers. >> the jobs will not necessarily be the benefit that people think? >> some states give money on all money spent including actor salaries. that is where the disagreement is from. i do not know if we want to be giving it tax rebates on money that is going to hollywood star. >> mr. mcwherter? >> i think this is something we

can look to expand across the state of tennessee. i completely agree with you. it is unbelievable that the is not beingmemphis" felt here. i understand that more states provide more tax incentives and tax credits. i think there is a real marketing aspect to tennessee that we can promote. one of which is the country music industry here in the state. the cultural heritage that you have right here in memphis, tennessee. we need to make sure we are marketing our culture are too -- cultural heritage all across the country and aggressively going after these potential developments where we can bring them into the state. >> i have not heard either one of you talk that much about the immigration issue recently. i want to ask you, i will start

with you mr. mcwherter, do you support an arizona style immigration law for tennessee and, specifically, have you ever directly or indirectly hired an undocumented immigrants in your business? >> when i get to the last part of that first and say that we always thoroughly check the background of anybody who applies with our company. we have very little turnover. that does not happen a whole lot. we always thoroughly check out the backgrounds. i am confident we have not hired anybody to is not here legally in the united states. as to the errors of law, i was recently in sevier county. i was standing with someone in the construction business. he said he was at an unfair advantage because competitors are hiring undocumented workers. we have to make sure that we are enforcing the laws that are on our books right now to their

fullest extent and penalize anyone who is not a hearing to those laws. as far as arizona and goes right now, they passed the ball out of frustration because the federal government has completely failed to pass a uniform law that will provide for all states across this country. >> thank you. >> no, i have never knowingly hired an illegal immigrant in the business at all. when you have a problem you ought to address it at the source. the source of people coming here for jobs -- and we saw that during the recession -- which sell a reverse migration. we need to cut all the problem where it is happening and make sure that businesses that are hiring illegals or penalized serious enough that they will stop doing it. i think that will solve our problems faster than anything. 60% of the illegal immigrants that enter the country, from

arizona. they reacted to the situation they have. if our legislature passed that what i would sign it. >> it has never happened as far as you know? >> it is never happen. thank you for the clarification. >> this is a question for both of you. as you undoubtedly know, and but mortality rates in the state have long been a high compared to the rest of the united states. in the memphis area that they have approached a third-world numbers. gov. bredesen has issued funding to attack and that mortality. would you be prepared to continue that effort? >> i think whenever you are looking at budgets in tough times you began with the strategy of attacking our biggest problems. we ranked 47 out of 50 in at

that mortality, childhood obesity -- there are things that are driving the number height. if we want to attack that, we need to be specific. i want to see the program stay in tennessee. >> it is unfortunate that we write so low or so high, however you want to view that statistic, in infant mortality. in many cases it is clearly true about shelby county. it is higher here than it is in other areas of the state. that is because of the poverty that exists and lack of access to health care, for the most part. when the to do everything we can to support these young families and make sure we are getting them the proper knowledge they need to take care of their young children. at the same time, we need to make sure they are getting popular education to take care of their unborn children. if you look at some of the statistics in east tennessee,

literally one in four mothers continue to smoke throughout their pregnancy. this contributes to a low birth weight. that's all starts out at a disadvantage. it was bill parks that try to cut funding for that program in the legislature this year. i think that is wrong. >> this question is for mr. mcwherter. the you support medical malpractice reforms that would require mandatory arbitration and caps on the monetary awards that juries can impose in malpractice lawsuits? >> i think you're talking about tort reform. i am wide open to looking at anything that is reasonable. anything that comes forward, i would have to be very careful to say i do not want to cut off victims' rights to seek justice when they have been hurt or damaged by someone's negligence or failure to act.

for example, in florida, when you start talking about the nursing home industry, they have raised quality standards there. because of that they have had fewer lawsuits. i think that is what we need to look at and make sure that we are not driving doctors out of the state by making them have to go through additional testing, but at the same time it is very important that we protect victims' rights. if they are wrong, they ought to be compensated and be able to take care of their families. >> you address this in your recent ads. can you address it now? >> we have a big issue in the country and the state with health-care costs. as the government becomes the primary provider for health care, we have to look at what that is. part of that is usage. we are over testing ourselves.

one of the reasons is that physicians are worried about being sued. i think there should be a cap in place that will let doctors not worry about that. when texas did that, you had doctors swarming to texas. we are going to face another issue in terms of not enough hair -- not enough health care, particularly in our rural areas. it's the business of our rural counties, one of the primary concerns is all we have enough general positions back in practice as much as a specialist to take care of the needs. >> memphis has its own unique financial problems. the issue of payroll tax has come up. it that issue comes up again which be in favor of it? would you support it? >> i do not think a payroll tax

is a good idea. our local governments do not have one, so i would not. we should respect the rights of local governments. as a mayor, it always bothered me with the state came in and tell me what to do. it bothers me even more with the federal government came in and told me what to do. we should respect each government's unique role. with that being said, that would not be something i would be in favor of. >> to a large part, i agree with bill on that issue. i do not think we will create jobs by adding additional taxes here in the state of tennessee. because of that, jobs has to be the absolute fortress -- focus as we move forward. we have to get people back to work. as you get people back to work, you have consumers. with consumers and you have revenue. i would be opposed to adding any additional taxes that might hinder the development. it was just three years ago when

we had pretty much full employment in the state of tennessee that the legislature's state in session four weeks arguing about how to spend that excess money. they have not done that the last two years because we have been in a recessionary economy. i do not think adding taxes at this point in time is any kind of solution towards adding jobs in tennessee. >> gentlemen, in the latest national education testing, tenn. public school students ranked at or near the very bottom in eighth grade math and reading proficiency. in getting down to basics, what, if they think, can the next governor do to help these kids catch up? >> we should do what we have already done in changing our standards of defining proficiency. we have been expecting too

little. our kids react to that. the new standards for determining proficiency is step one. the government can do a lot. we need to make sure we have great teachers in the classroom. one thing president obama said is the thing that determines the success of -- the success of a child more than anything else is the quality of the teacher in that classroom. what specific strategy is to make sure we have great principles. a great teacher states where there is a great principal. we had the tennessee value added assessment service. we can predict behavior of the past results. we are not using that data to intervene in the way we should. if we do that, we will help teachers and parents have a more realistic appraisal to where we are. >> i am very pleased to say that tennessee's teachers have endorsed my campaign.

i am proud of that endorsement. i understand the many issues that they face. i also happen to be a member of the tennessee business roundtable. it was their initiative that helped pass the tennessee diploma project which raised the standards for graduation. we -- i know that some of the students will be very disappointed in the task force they will see. we are not condemning them to failure. we are trying to raise the standards of the can be more successful, so that they can fulfill the jobs of today and tomorrow's workplace. i know we are ranking low right now, but i applaud the efforts made in the legislature this year in the special session. i think we're finally headed in the right direction. i am excited to be the next governor who can implement the first of the top fund. it will address our failing students and are telling schools as well as provide teacher

training. that is what we desperately need. >> mr. mcwherter, i will start with you. one thing this campaign has shown is that both you and your opponent or pretty wealthy individuals. i have to ask you, what in your background make you more capable of understanding and addressing the issues of the average tennessean, and particularly lowe and, and people in poverty -- low income and people in poverty? >> but the bus had been very blessed. -- both of us have been very blessed. you have a unique ability to understand the situation that families are in.

our customers are men and women who drive trucks up and down the interstate everyday and are working very hard to make a living. as mayor, one of the things we work hard on is helping those who are economically disadvantaged. we have made some remarkable progress. we have done things by addressing low and moderate income housing. i served on the mayor of the housing authority in knoxville. there is no job that prepares you for dealing with all the variety of situations as much as being a mayor. >> i am a product -- product of public schools. having grown up, i understand the role that public schools need to play. at the same time i am a small business program. a lot of people think i went directly into a family business.

i did not. i borrowed the money and bought that business. my wife and i worked to pay it off. i understand the needs for small businesses. i have done a payroll. i have lived within a budget. i know what it takes to provide health-care benefits for the people you work with. i am much more mainstream. it was small business that led us out of this recession in 1981 and 1991. i believe it will be small business that leads us out of this recession now. but they need an incentive to jump-start this economy. that is why i take my jobs program is so important and why i think my background is important coming from small business. he is much more wall street. >> we have so much fun last time, we are going to do it again. the candidates will have a chance to ask the other candidate a question. >> began this only have 45

seconds to ask each other individual cries -- individual questions. this time will begin with mr. mcwherter. >> bill, we have contrast to what our jobs programs are here in the state of tennessee, but i have heard you setting up additional government offices. there are eight offices across the state of tennessee working for economic development. how many more do you think we need? >> my plan is not about setting up more offices, it is about taking the assets we have now and decentralizing. rather than say we will decide everything out of nashville, we will have a regional peppers that focus on that strategy. the jobs program for shelby county will look different than the jackson county and the southwest counties around it. it will be a very specific strategy. we will use programs like memphis fast forward that was

developed by people with the strip -- specific strategy. it is not more bureaucracy, it is taking the power and decentralizing its we can make better decisions. >> mr. mcwherter, you have more time. >> bill, do you not believe that would make it less responsive? i know from watching my father's own example that when you start recruiting industries, you need to be able to move quickly and nimbly. you're talking about decentralizing it. i am very confused by how you believe that will help move this date forward. >> obviously there will be a lot of things led out of nashville. i will take the personal lead. there is nothing that matters as much as the cheap salesperson. i look forward to playing that role. we are not always talking about 1000 employee companies. there are a lot of 50-60 employee companies.

some of them are being stolen away by mississippi. we do have specific strategies. we have offices all over the country. some decisions are better made at headquarters, but a lot more of our made at regional offices where they understand the local issues better. >> as important as memphis and shelby county are, i am curious why you have not gone through the shell opening an office in shelby county. >> bill, i do have an office. it is in whitehaven. you can come over for cookies and milk. i do share it with the democratic campaign headquarters. unfortunately, i am a democrat, but we do not have as much money as you do. we have to share some things. we have to learn to get along.

>> i am glad to hear you are serving milk and cookies now. it is important to have a campaign that was to have a state-wide presence. that is why we spent over a 55 days just in shelby county to understand the issues. can you say you have done the same thing? >> i have spent my life coming to memphis. where did you buy your suit? i bought mine in memphis, tennessee. i have been here all my life. i do not need a gps to get me around the city. i am very familiar with the city. i have read the "commercial appeal" since i was five weeks old. i have been reading that paper all my life. i am familiar with the issues that memphis faces. >> that response will lead

nicely to my next question. convincing a big employer to relocate to tennessee require state involvement. memphis would like to be a part of that. volkswagen will build a plant in other parts of the state. do you agree with leaders in memphis the consolidation of the shelby county government would be very helpful in luring those companies that may relocate to memphis? this is a big issue that voters will be deciding in november. >> i am well aware that is a big issue down here. it is a local issue. it is something that the local people here will have to decide. as governor i am will respect whatever that decision is. there are compassionate feelings -- there are passionate feelings on both sides of that issue. as governor i will respect

whatever that decision is. >> the believe it would help your efforts as governor to have fewer layers of government to work for? >> given my long history with memphis, i believe i can sell memphis anywhere in the united states and the world. i do not know if that will be a critical issue for me to be able to recruit and the street here to help create jobs. >> i think mike is right. it is a local issue. there are certain things i get very sensitive about. we have look for it in knoxville. the vote has failed every time. in terms of would it help or not, the recent success we just had with pinnacle airlines, i believe i can work either way.

both mayors at a good working relationship. i honestly do not know that that would be a huge in a bitter one way or another. as governor i look forward to being here and creating jobs in the way. >> i want to get back to something that i alluded to earlier on. that was expansion of pre-k. yes said in the past that we do not have the money for it. when your opponent was meeting with the commercial appeal editorial board, he accused you of being dismissive of the need to expand pre-k. what we do to try to find money to expand pre-k. >> that is just like playing politics again. when gov. bredesen announced pre-k several years ago i was there. i support having pre-k in the

schools where it is now. it is not realistic to say we have the money to go across the state with that now. with the revenue picture changes, which but that in line with the other needs like employees who have not had a pay raise. it is not honest to tell people, "oh yes, i will put pre-k in," when you do not know where the money will come from. i cannot promise you that in the next two years. the two year blueprint that governor bredesen laid out does not have the expansion of pre-k in it either. >> what governor bredesen has done is to put it into recurring expenses. it has been a onetime find. he has moved it to recurring expenses. i have been very careful to say

that i want to expand the program as revenue allows. we are spending south of $100 million on the program today. it to completely max l. by gov. bredesen's x -- max it out, -- it will be a priority for me to expand that program as revenue allows. i believe is an investment in future generations of tennessee as. i think it will move our state forward. i think it is absolutely critical. that you have sat in a pre-k program like i have, you know it fosters the love of learning in the students at an early age. it will pay dividends. every study shows that they do better in their professional lives. >> the stark difference between each of you on the size of the state budget deficit -- coming

state budget deficit, republicans say is north of $1 billion. officials of the bredesen administration say it may be $200 million. either way, there is a sizeable deficit. but the view taken strong stances against new taxes. what makes you think you can cut your way out of this problem? where you begin? mr. mcwherter? >> i have looked at gov. bredesen's analysis of the budget. as we started to enter this recessionary economy, governor bredesen did something i do not believe any governor has done in history. i was 12 years old when might father went to the legislature. he worked to craft a budget that would take us to a recessionary period. if he stayed very close with what he has recommended, we have recuring revenue matched up with recurring expenses. stimulus money does go way this december. he spent that money by and

large on onetime expenses. while we may have a small budget, and i do not think that is a bad thing, we have a budget that will be funded with recurring revenue. bill is talking about $1 billion. i do not know where he comes up with those numbers. >> it is very simple. there is revenue in this year's budget that will not be there next year. gov. bredesen has done us the favor of letting out a blueprint for getting out of that. making cuts on paper and making them in real life for two different things. the only cut that mike has commented on that governor bredesen has made on paper he said he did not want to do. there is a world of difference between making a cut on paper and making get in real life. there is $50 million in cuts to children services. it is going to be very difficult to replace that $1.50 billion.

there is still a gap in the recurring dispenses vs. the current revenue. the hard final decisions are yet to be made. i will approach it the same way i did it by mayor -- line by line. are we doing it as effectively as possible? we have done it in the city of knoxville. >> it is time to wrap up tonight with closing remarks from each of our candidates. >> its candidate has one minute. the order was determined by drawling. bill haslam will go first. >> i think the next governor will have the august economy ever. when light closes, you have some typical political stuff. it is too important for that. parnaz governor these the experience and skill to deal with difficult issues. i have wrestled hard budget problems. i have also done that in a private role. the state of tennessee is a

large complex organization. we educate everybody from four years old to ph.d. s. we manage parts. i can go on and on. our next governor needs that kind of experience to deal in difficult times. i promise that will be faithful stores of your tax dollars. i will begin every day and and every day thinking about how to bring jobs to tennessee. i promise you will not state 47th out of 50 states in education. thank you very much. i would be honored to be your governor and i ask for your vote on november 2. >> i want to thank wreg and the commercial appeal for hosting these debates. in education, i am for pre-k. i think it is an investment in our future. on jobs, i have talked repeatedly about having a

program like the one in illinois against tax incentives for every job created. i think that is important. on disclosure, i am fully disclosed on my income taxes and my assets. bill haslam refuses to do either one. it boils down to the simple question of trust with the voters. either you're going to tell the truth, the whole truth, or you or not. i believe it is important for the voters of tennessee to be able to see where you have conflicts of interest. i ask for their trust and i ask for the voters vote. >> we like to thank you for being here to discuss the issues. >> if you are done with the debate fellows. >> we also what to thanknorm brewer and otis sanford as well

as the "commercial appeal." >> we will recall broadcast -- will rebroadcast the debate tomorrow morning and on november 1. >> it is passed our bedtime. good night. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> citigroup is spending money on ads to support lisa murkowski's right in bid. a u.s. house debate in ohio's night congressional district with rich iott and marcy kaptur. iott drew national news contention -- news attention by wearing a nazi uniform.

the debate was moderated by wupw. >> you decide 2010. tonight, democratic incumbent marcy kaptur and rich iott face off. now, live from the lobby in downtown toledo, here is sean haggarty. >> welcome to the congressional district 9 debate. we appreciate all of you for turning in today. we want to introduce the candidates. we had the income but who is serving a 14th term in the u.s. house of representatives, marcy kaptur. rich iott is challenging her for that seat. we also want to let you know that our committee sponsor is leadership toledo.

you can learn more about them at leadershiptoledo.org. our questions will be coming from fox toledo. we will have a live transcripts blocking. she is already typing away as we began tonight's debate. that will be available on the website, foxtoledo.com. as for the ground rules, it destroyed to be pretty basic. each candidate will have a two minute opening statement. what's the question is asked, the candidate will have three minutes to answer. you have one minute to respond to the other person if you like. if you do not want to, you do not have to. you make the decision on what you are going to do. we had a good crowd with us

tonight, but we are asking them to be extra quiet so we can get to as many issues as possible. without further ado, we are going to get to our opening statements of the evening. >> thank you, very much. i would like to thank fox toledo and the toledo free press for sponsoring this evening. to all the citizens who came to the studio at all of those sitting at home, thank you for caring about the future of our country in the future of our district. it is a great honor to serve the people of our region. i love the people that live here. we are working hard together to move our community forward economically and socially. jobs must be our number one priority. jobs in america, good jobs with

excellent wages and benefits you can depend upon. as we look around the region, i know it would not have been possible without the votes i cast in congress. over 45,000 people across our community directly are affected by paychecks that come from those plants. in addition, if we look at transportation and the improvements that we have been making across this region, building our rail capacity forward as well as preparing for high-speed rail, the parkway, so many improvements that we have made that provide a rail as well as overland ports. ver land ports

we are making a difference for the future, for the next generation. so many of the areas in which we are making progress despite the difficulties in the national economy. we'll talk more about that tonight. thank you for joining us. >> now for his >> and now for his opening statement, rich iott. >> thank you for giving us the opportunity for this debate. thank you to all of the members of the audience who came here tonight. over the course of the next hour, i look forward to talking about the issues of the day, and we will talk about those issues, but i want to start tonight by speaking directly to you, marcy. i want to talk about your latest coordinated attempt at character assassination. you and i have known each other for 25 years. you know my family.

i have contributed personally to your campaign in the past. together we have done a lot for this community. but now because you want to win reelection so badly, you have thrown all of that out the window. you'll have coordinated an attack that has tried to brand meat and not see. -- brand me a nazi because i participated in some reenactments. this shows more about your character than it does about me. because i participated in some reenactments. this shows more about your character than it does about me. it shows that you do not care about the truth. you proved that with the first campaign ad in this case which proved to be completely false by two independent agencies. you still codify your lies. now if you think about it, you should be my strongest defender, because you know these

allegations are false. you would think that you would be able to rise up above the politics and do what is right, but you are not. instead, you are standing on those allies and you are doing it all because you are desperate for -- standing on in those lies, and you're doing it all because you are desperate to hold onto your power in washington, d.c. this is why people hate politics. >> i am going to stop you there so that we can keep it on time. i will give you a chance to respond to that of bunning statement. -- to that opening statement. >> did in your campaign play any part in bringing the photographs of his re-enactment group to the media's attention? >> actually, the media brought it to my attention.

my opponent says i have known him for 25 years. i met my opponent for the first time this year, this summer, when i walked up to him at the parade. i introduced myself to them. i really do not know him. i know what we have learned through this campaign. i have more to say on this, but i am very disappointed in your opening statement attacking us. you of the metal through the campaign. you have been very negative. the actualize you have put up there about our campaign -- but i think we should be talking about the future year. you should be taking responsibility for your call and actions, not trying to shift the

blame to someone else -- for your own actions, not trying to shift the blame to someone else. >> your involvement with the re- enactment group has garnered national and international criticism which you have addressed this evening. that criticism includes a comment by republican eric cantor. he basically said that your involvement with the group, if you understand that media attention is likely to be more intense, how can you defend that? >> i think his remark was typical of career politicians to jump in and take the stand without knowing all of the facts. he could not have known all of the facts. we tried to reach out to his office and talk to him, and they

would not do it. this is what you happen when you have career politicians who want to make decisions without all of the facts. what do they do? if they vote on the health care bill without knowing what is in it. they vote on a stimulus package that is not complete. this is the exact kind of problem we have in washington, and i have expressed that clearly on a number of news programs today. >> do you feel nervous that the house minority whip repudiates your involvement? >> not at all. i do not believe he speaks for the entire party. >> thank you for your time. we will switch up the order a little bit. let me ask you this. one of the complaints raised during the campaign is that you did not accept invitations to town halls when it came to the debate over health care. do you feel you met adequately with your constituents? >> yes, we certainly dead.

we not only met with a broad a ray of -- yes, we certainly did. we not only met with a broad a of citizens, we did so on many occasions. what we did not do was put ourselves in a position to be shouted at by people were opposed and came to meetings specifically to catcall, yell at members and gave an unbecoming ways -- behavior unbecoming ways. when we are able to have a real dialogue, to get people suggestions, i took many of those suggestions and put them in the bill. i want to thank the citizens of this region. over 40 million americans will now have access to affordable insurance.

in ohio, children will be able to remain on at their parents' plans up until 28 years of age. you will not go broke if you happen to get sick. in addition to that, medicare was extended by an additional 12 years until 2029. this is an incredible achievement. for those who got caught in the whole -- donut hole , they will not have to pay an extra amount once they reached the caps. if we can put a man on the moon, we can figure out how to have competitive insurance plans. >> thank you very much. mr. iott, would you like to respond to that? >> i find it funny that she

talked about how hard she tried to get to the people in these town hall meetings. i was in one of these meetings. she did not show up. if that is because she thought the audience was going to be rude, i am not sure how she could no the audience was going to be rude. in fact, the meeting went on without her and the audience was very professional, got up there and said what they had to say and then stepped down. the second thing i want to say about health care is that health care is turning out to be everything we thought it would not be. costs are going up. companies are seeing insurance rates go up. we cut half a trillion dollars out of medicare. we cannot possibly do that without cutting services. 70% of the people on medicare advantage are losing it. this will health care bill is not a good thing. >> on march 19th of this year, the federal elections commission showed that you made

a contribution of $500. you listed your employer as the state of ohio and your job as a soldier. can you explain this? >> i do not remember that specifically. i would like to see verification of that because i do not recall that at all. >> we will work on the verification and test that in the next couple of days. response to that question? >> i would like to speak about health care. >> can we speak to the question -- can we keep it to the question please? >> i have no knowledge of what ever he submitted to the federal elections commission. >> bros is very much. -- thank you very much. >> why have you declined

invitations from conservative groups such as the children of liberty to speak or to be interviewed by them? >> well, my office handles all of my appointments. if i happen to be in washington during the week, we generally do try to make phone calls. i am here on weekends. i try to do all of my press evidence of possible. we do have press conferences. i do not know -- do all of my press events if possible. we do have press conferences. i do not know why people do not think i am accessible. >> some organizations might have wanted a special meeting just with you. would you ever decide not to meet with someone because of their ideology? >> i do not believe so. in fact, we were able to speak with many people individually.

the children of liberty i do not recall, but i am sure we have been in touch with members of .hat group' i noticed by a punt and has been campaigning in places that are not his this -- i noticed my campaigning inen places that are not his territory. we are bound by it congressional rules that we stay within the boundaries of our district. >> can you elaborate on where he is going that is not part of the district? >> i saw him and many tea party rallies in frankfurt, for example.

he is getting many letters from individuals to support him but are not from the ninth congressional district. you can tell that by the zip codes on the return address. >> i think what you brought up there is something i hear all around the district, the inaccessibility and non- responsiveness of my opponents office. as far as campaigning outside the district, i go where people ask me to go. if i am invited to people who know me from around the state respect me. >> do you support the gop pledge?

but once you to defend the absence of any plan or reference from the $106 trillion unfunded liability for something like social tear it -- social security. there is no mention of eliminating earmarks and no concrete plan to reduce spending. >> yes, for the first part. i do not think it goes far enough. i agree with exactly what you said. it does not address your marks at all. it does not lay out a crystal clear plan. i think it is a window into a mind set of what direction this congress is going to want to go. i believe this congress will be a reformation congress. they will change the way things are done in washington. the layout of that plan is a good start. it is not the entire answer. >> if you make it to washington,

you'll be going in as a freshman -- low man on the totem pole. >> as a freshman, my vote counts just as much as the speaker's vote. a vote is a vote. while it may be more difficult to get some things started, certainly the support of them is important. every vote counts. that is the way it is supposed to work. >> even though your vote will matter, will you be able to get what you really want? >> there is a reformation congress that will be going there in january. as a group there will be enough people there with the right mindset to make that happen. >> of db one minute to respond to that question. >> that particular pledged takes

us back to the bush administration. they want to privatize social security and medicare. it is no secret that the ranking republican on the budget committee has his own plan to privatize social security. i do not support that. if we do with social security what wall street did with our housing market, our children will lose their father -- will lose their trust fund. as far as my opponent's desire to go back to the policies that loss 780,000 jobs a month, there is no way we can rewind back to the past. we are digging ourselves out to the whole for one year and eight months. we have had growth in this economy in every single quarter. it has been slow. it has been a struggle. at least we are moving in the right direction. i do not know a single american that wants to go back to that.

>> thank you very much, congresswoman. the next question is for a mess kaptur. >> will you return the money that you admitted funneling to your campaign? >> what we have done, about two years ago when the spurs started coming out about that particular individual, i ordered our campaign committee to return any fines -- we did that. it was a huge firm, by the way. i think they gave funds to over 140 members of congress. we put that into a separate escrow account. it was posted on the federal election committee website. i do not know a single other member of congress that did that. in fact, when the special

committees of congress approved them, bipartisan committees looked over all of our records as well as those of other members of congress on both sides of the aisle. we were given a clean bill of health by unanimous vote. there was no question that our accounts were absolutely in order. we had done everything properly. my opponent, therefore, is telling untruths. i expect that of him in this campaign. i do not appreciate it, but everybody knows in washington that we did what was proper. >> will give you a minute he would like to respond. >> the very fact that one was engaged in receiving $143,000 from someone who has pled guilty to federal election fraud is disturbing to me.

the fact that a congressional committee or two felt no problem, that is not really surprising. there is still an open investigation with the justice department and the fbi. when does not plead guilty to something like that unless the prosecuting agencies have a plan to do something with that information. i am sure we will hear something about that down the road. marcy kaptur should identify any other funds that came from sources like that. >> we at the next question if she can get it out there. >> i am battling a cold. if you had to do it all over again, would you agree with the merger. >> absolutely.

that is a good business decision made by the board of directors. it was voted on by the shareholders. it was the right thing to do at the right time. ultimately, long after i had left the company, they made some bad decisions. those decisions ultimately found them having to close stores to save the company as a whole. i would do it again in a second. >> miss marcy kaptur would you like to respond? >> i would like to roll back to the original decision to sell a very profitable set of enterprises. these are stores that my family shot at. drug stores all across this region. if you read the documents, they will show that the purchase was done by the spartan acquisition

corp. the net result is that our region lost its second or third largest employer. thousands of people were put out of work. our community lost part of its identity that had been built up for over half a century. father and thousands of people who invested their lives in that company -- christmas parades and the way people felt so close to the company, to the people who worked there -- i have not heard then express one word about the people who lost their job. >> i appreciate your enthusiasm. let's try to keep this on time as much as possible. i want to thank everybody at home there is watching. i encourage you to stay with us.

this next question is for ms. kaptur. how is it that you and government -- gov. strickland cannot obtain any federal assistance after the tornadoes? >> it goes back to the amount of insurance that was available and the size of the disaster. but the community did not get the normal federal emergency management finds, however, in one of the agency's they absolutely did get involved with the disaster loans. the small business administration -- we work together with other congressmen to make sure that where the federal government could be helpful that, in fact, it was. this is a rural area. for the usda and small business

administration, there was action taken. the damage in terms of the schools did not want federal assistance. we are hoping with the additional funds that have come through ohio, the state legislature and others may be able to channel some of those dollars. i think a lot of us did everything we could to try to help the families there. the larger share of the damage was outside of my district. nonetheless, we went outside the district. i want to thank the first responders. warning sirens were sirens i was able to use federal dollars years ago to make this function prior to the damage. we did what we could in this situation. everybody pulled together. i try to help the people in that region. >> so many people in that

committee could not understand why this was not a federal disaster declaration. you're there. it's all the problems they had. you have been in congress for 14 years. u.s. supported the president's plans. how is it you could not get him to listen? >> it is because it is the federal emergency management agency. if you get private insurance and that functions well, the amount that was left was not -- did not meet their trigger. >> it is a paperwork thing? >> no, it is a amount of money thing. most of the people -- the federal government -- it does not trigger that federal assistance. people were insured for the most part. we took care of a lot of those who were not certain whether all

private insurance. >> yet the minister responded you would like. >> -- you have a minute to respond if you would like. >> it is unfortunate that more could not be done. you would think that a congress% with 28 years' seniority should be able to move mountains. that is what we are told. we could not provide additional support for the people that were affected by the tragedy. >> mr. iott, you'll get 2 minutes 30 seconds for the next question. >> ohio as lost a lot of jobs, many of those in manufacturing. what needs to happen to u.s. trade policy to restore jobs in ohio? >> u.s. trade policy needs to be fair for both sides. that is something we need to make sure of.

we need international trade. ohio happens to be the number one trade partner for nafta countries among all states. we ship more stuff out of ohio than any other state. there are 12,000 businesses that depend on exports. that is about one in 13 jobs in the state. international trade is very critical. one of the things we need to do is address our tax situation. we had the highest corporate taxes in the world now. it said the last 13 years the corporate tax rate has gone down among the top 30 industrialized nations in the world. our manufacturers are at a disadvantage. we need to address that and fix that. why would anybody want to come here and build a plant went right out of the box they are at a huge disadvantage because of taxes?

one company built a plant in china. they were highly criticized for it. someone said it must be cheap labor. it was not be cheap labor. it was a very highly automated plant. the difference between a plant here and that plant in china was taxes. it was $100 million a year to the bottom line. that is probably the one biggest thing we could do to stimulate business growth in this country is get our business tax and our personal tax system in line with the rest of the world. >> is this a job or state government or are you saying that federal government -- >> the first place to start is the federal government, absolutely. the states have to do with the states have to do to attract businesses. obviously that is the state's job. >> thank you for that. >> no one fought harder than

this member of congress did. we have a $1 trillion trade deficit that has accumulated since nafta's passage. it was not supposed to work that way. it was supposed to work for our benefit. the problem is there is -- there are imports coming in. it is on balance. the multi-nationals who have a handle on this, they are extremely powerful. many states, such as china, or communist countries where they have saved controls. we are competing against very different market systems around the globe. we have not had a president in modern history who has fought. we have to balance our trade account.

we are losing 3.5% in gdp. >> thank you, very much. let's go on to our next question. >> i think this fall is nicely with what you just said. what needs to happen to u.s. trade policy to restore jobs in ohio? >> we need a president committed to opening markets that are closed. if we look at japan, they are the second largest automotive market in the world. they are very pro-japanese. my opponent says he does not believe there should be a american automotive industry. the majority of jobs are here and those markets are closed to us. correa, for example, since 700,000 cars over here. we only send 7000 cars into their market.

this is where i also disagree with my opponent. whether it is japan, whether it is korea -- most of the rest of the globe has the value added tax that takes care of health care. when we export something, they add that on. it is counterproductive to enterprise in this country. we need a president and a congress committed to renegotiating agreements that are not acting in the interest of the united states. all we have to do is look across this region where government or the money markets do not control the major job base. we concede the attrition we have had in automotive manufacturing, in textiles, in furniture, in electronics. if you look at what is going on around the globe, something is seriously wrong. one of our problems as a nation is that most trade ambassadors do not last more than two years.

we do not have the kind of professionalism that we need at the the u.s. state representative's office in washington. george bush was trying to negotiate with the japanese. that all fell apart because they did not have the expertise we needed at the highest levels of our government. we need people who are committed to this country. >> i will stop you right there. mr. iott, you have one minute to respond. >> for the past two years, the party of mrs. kaptur have controlled the congress and the white house. why is it not happening? they are in charge. it should be happening quickly

and relatively easily. i never said we do not need an american auto industry. what i said is that we do not need to bail out the american automobile industry. the federal government is not responsible for bailing out businesses. if we are going to bail out businesses, what about the 170 factories that have left northwest ohio and the region in the last 10 years? where were their belts? why did we not worry about this 27,000 jobs? either we bailout or we do not bailout. we have to be principled and we have to be consistent. >> i want to follow up on a question from earlier. you're asking about documentation from the elections commission. we'll litigate for you. it is dated march 19, 2010. i will give you a second to look of the document. the question was, you made a

$500 as a soldier. can you give us an explanation of what exactly that means? >> no, actually i cannot. i am a soldier of the state of ohio in the military reserve. that is true. that would not be my employer, certainly. i do not know how it got that way. >> can you explain for those of us who are not familiar, what with that position have been in the guard? what exactly would you do? will we responsibilities? >> i had a number of different responsibilities. i was the company commander in the operations section.

i have been involved for 28 years. >> did you command a certain amount of people? were you a colonel? how many people did you ever see? >> right now we are going to a transition. our current strength is 497 i believe it is. we are in the process of changing from an old organization that was designed -- to a new organization. that is the process we are going through right now. >> mrs. kaptur, would you like to respond? >> it seems that it is not true that you were not a soldier. you just stated that you put it on your form. i have never understood his

military background. there have been times when he has been asked if he had served in the active duty forces of our veteranand if you're a of our country. >> let's let you respond to that. let's flesh out that topic right here, right now. >> i have never claimed to be a veteran. my opponent in the primary claimed i was a veteran. i have never claimed to be a veteran of the u.s. armed forces. i have never served in the u.s. armed forces. all of my service has been in the state board. >> okay then. now that we have that issue cleared up, we appreciate you discussing it honestly. we have a question for congresswoman kaptur. >> looking back at your career so far, what would you say is your biggest failure and what did you learn from that? >> biggest failure -- as far as

what we have not accomplished yet. always say the most difficult part has been trying to embed the policies of our country and fundamental change. for example, trade policy. i realised after nafta that this is a generational job that, in fact, as hard as you might try to represent the cause of ordinary people and business at the regional level, to try to change the nation took much longer than i anticipated. i would say the amount of time it takes to do something of significance. when he built the world war ii memorial, i thought we would have that done in four years. it ended up taking 16 years. the ability to get it done faster.

it has helped me appreciate what a large country this is. bringing a new body of thought into the national realm, it takes enormous effort and perseverance. it does not happen overnight. in terms of failure, i would say the time i have spent with my family i have had to restrict to the closest members of my family. i missed a party the other day. i feel so bad about that. i wanted to go to it. the insufficiencies, i would not call them failures exactly, but also might recognition -- how long it takes to take -- to do something of significance at the national level. we were finally able to get a farm bill. it took us 10 years.

i think it is the ability to really move legislation with dispatch which i find the most frustration. i realized how hard it is to get anything accomplished of value at the federal level. >> mr. iott, you have a bill to respond. >> no. >> we move on to the next question. >> when you first announced your candidacy as an independent, he stated one of your goals was to reintroduce legislation on term limits for members of congress. is this still a goal of your running as a member of the republican party? >> yes, i still support that idea. absolutely, in fact, i have limited myself to two-three terms.

the longer a person is in washington be more because about politics and the less it becomes about the people. i will do what i can to support that legislation. we find it worthwhile to term- limit people at the state level. we find it worthwhile to term- limit the president of the united states. why not the senate and the house? it is totally illogical. i will find out how one goes about introducing that legislation once i get there. from what i hear around the country, probably be a number of other people who do the same thing. i will either introduce sets or support it. i am not sure which way that goes. i believe term-limits are an important part of the process. another important part of the process is that we do not have people for a long period of time. we get comfortable. we trade earmarked for your marks.

we run everything through a transparent system. everything is above board and is done to the processes of checks and balances that are set up for this country to run. i think not having term-limits -- it helps create the potential for problems. >> i just want to follow up. you think there's some validity to what marcy kaptur is saying about accomplishing certain goals in d.c.? >> ultimately if we get to that goal, things will probably happen a lot faster. >> ok. mrs. kaptur if you like a man but -- if you like a minute on term limits you can have it. >> we have to come before the

voters every two years. that is a line in the sand. members have to fight to get reelected. i think that that is essentially is the most important part of the system. it is a little bit different with the president, obviously. what term limits will do in the congress is either empower the lobbyists more -- it will empower the lobbyist more. we are from a part of the country that is close to that establishment. if you look at the power of that place, the law firms, the contacting firms that are all surrounding the city, those have enormous power. they have enormous interests. there are many days i leave that congress late after a vote and i --y to myself to g

>> i am going to stop you right there. mrs. kaptur, i will be giving you the next question here. i want to talk about cap and trade. what is the impact it will have on coal companies and their users? >> the most important element with coal is something i have been working on for decades now. that is to burn it in a way that it does not damage the environment. i do not know of a coal company that does not favor that. four ohio and the midwest in general, we have more coal than the middle east as with petroleum. it is to our advantage to think about how to use that resource very wisely. but we needed an energy bill for

our country because we are competing in a global economy. businesses in europe, for example, receive credit related to cap and trade that they have in europe. our business is here received no kind of market endorsement. we are out of step even with some of our closest trading partners on the business front. but we needed energy independence for this country, which i support very strongly. i am not sure where my opponent's stance on that. he is probably not for it. all you have to do is look where our soldiers or. all you have to do is go to any veteran's hospital and ask that soldier where he or she stance. stands. sheet stanhe or she

if you look at the top trade deficits that we have, you begin to understand how vulnerable this country is. it is important to restore energy independence here at home. it will create a lot of jobs. many private sectors are developing biofuel. >> i am got to stop right there. mr. iott, i am a sending you want to respond. >> that during our first debate when i set cap and trade, you said the president wants to copy something in europe. you were referring to the air mark that was in there for a federal facility in the great lakes area.

that contradicts what you just said now. cap and trade is the biggest disaster coming down the road. it is a tax on energy. when energy goes up, the cost of operation for industry goes up, jobs will go out the window. if it is so good for the coal industry, why is the coal industry vehemently opposed to it? it will put them out of business. we get 87% of our energy from coal. yet the cost of that goes up, you see jobs and businesses leave the state in droves. capt. trade is a disaster. >> will go for a nother question for mr. iott. >> if you were -- you were a businessman. congress is not the private sector. what experience will you bring

to navigate the washington culture? >> if you are right. congress is not the private sector and my opponent displace our ignorance of the private sector when asked if you sell a profitable company. >> you do that because that is what people want to buy. people do not want to buy or merge with a company that is going down the tubes. why did the merger take place with a company that was not in the same line of business? that is absolutely untrue. spartan had 40 odd stores. it was a merger of two very similar countries -- companies. i think what we do need is people in washington who had the experience in the private sector. people today in washington are making roles and telling businesses how they must run and

they had never been there. they do not get it. they had never balance the budget. they have never had to make a payroll. they had never signed the front of a check. we need people with private sector experience in washington. the federal government cannot run exactly like a private business, but the majority of the principles or the same. why do not balance the budget? if you ran your household or business like we run the federal government, you would be broke. as a matter of fact, we are broke, too. >> earlier it had responded to a question saying that you would do the merger again. do you have any regrets about that? >> of course there are regrets. it was not that it was a bad decision. if i had to do it again with 20- 20 hindsight, of course i would not do that. nobody has that advantage.

the thought processes that went into that were good. >> we will leave it at that. you can respond to that question if you would like, mrs. kaptur. >> i worked in so many different jobs across this community and country. i take offense that you say i have no sensitivity there. you had a sensitivity for the people you put out of work. -- you had no sensitivity for the people you put out of work. you're pretty young when you made the decision to let your stores be acquired. you chose to cash it out. we see this happening all across our country. some people become very well off, but lots of other people are hollowed out. our country needs of

entrepreneurs that will build on successful enterprise, not those who cash it out. >> will go for another question. this is for congressman kaptur. >> has the trend toward early voting changed the way we run our elections? >> i think the change in early voting has allowed us to encourage voters to vote early, to vote in the convenience of their homes, people have ballots they can fill out. there is an office in every county where people can vote early. what it does is it creates more advertising on the television early on because my opponent has been on tv earlier than may. he has more money.

i think it gets -- it gives people a choice. i think it is positive. >> do you try to encourage your campaign to go out and encourage people to vote early? >> i think that is being done by both political parties in ohio. there is a big push on absentee voting across our whole state. it is becoming much more convenient for people. they do not have to drive anywhere if they do not want to. they do not have to wait in line. i think we are moving forward. we are making fitting easier and more convenient. -- we are making a voting easier and more convenient. i think it is good. >> your response? >> just a minute to respond about having more money. if you look at the fec reports,

you'll see that 71% of her fund- raising calls from outside the state. in my case, 97% of it came from right here. i look at the numbers of individual donors. my opponent had 14 individual donors. >> you are wrong. that is untrue. >> the majority of the donations come from defense contractors and so on. i was raising money right here. it is growing every day. these are truly dollars from the people who are supporting individuals they would like to say go to washington. >> i can already hear the wheels of michael miller going right now. he would check out all those

facts. i am sure they will be following up on that. >> the next question is for mr. iott. what would you say it was your biggest failure and what did you learn from it? >> my biggest failure -- well, we will not have enough time for all of that. [laughter] i think that probably my biggest failure was -- was to wait so long to try and track down my birth mother. i was adopted. when we got married, my wife wanted me to do that. i resisted and resisted. ultimately i did. i was grateful because i had an opportunity that most adopted children never have and that is

to actually reach your birth mother. fortunately my mother made the difficult decision to put me up for adoption rather than take the easy way out for the selfish way out, which is an option today under the new health care bill. it will be federally funded, unfortunately. i think that was one of my biggest mistakes was waiting too long to do that. i was fortunate to be able to do that. babies who are aborted will never have that option. >> mrs. kaptur, which like to respond to that? >> he is wrong about the health care bill. there is no funding -- there is no federal funding of abortion in that bill. it is too bad that i have an opponent that continues to twist the facts. not only does the new bill not contain that language, but in fact the president signed a

special executive order that makes that not possible. i think it is a lowly move to try to make sure personal affairs with public policy in the debate tonight. i think that is typical of what we have experienced in the campaign. >> we have seen how polarized health care is. we've also seen how polarized the discussions of the extension of tax breaks and you should get them is. congress is very polarized lightly. people have seen a lot of arguing between extreme liberals and extreme conservatives. dc the middle-class, the middle of the road being left out of this argument? >> i think that the polarization comes because of what has happened to office seeking at

the federal level. that involves fund raising. that stuff needs to be done but political parties at the local level, at the state level, at the federal level. members are against one another in a way they were not when i was first elected. i can see the change and i do not like it. i think it is the reason for so much dissent within the institution. the independent voter and those who have not participated do not feel comfortable because they do not want all of that static. they may have not had exposure to politics. they do not feel comfortable going to political meetings and so forth.

people need to be directly engaged in a civil way to help of our country forward. i think it goes back to the fund raising. i find it unbelievable that my opponent -- you should have them go through all the different categories of their nations. there are thousands and thousands of the nation's -- thousands and thousands of donations. we have a lot of small donations. i also find it somewhat disingenuous that my opponent is one of the wealthiest men in this region. i am not saying he deserves to be wealthy. there is absolutely no comparison. >> i am it will stop right there. you can respond if you can. >> mrs. kaptur may find it

offensive that i get into my own funds to largely find this campaign. that is because i believe in this country. i wholeheartedly believe in this country and i am willing to invest in it and myself. i believe we need to make a change in washington. we are not going to change washington until we change the people we send it to washington. >> you talk about the tax breaks. i do not understand why when both houses are controlled by the democratic party that they decided to go home to campaign rather than stay there and work out the extension of these tax breaks. that is unconscionable. the fact that it was a tight vote that my opponent voted to go home, they could have got that result. businesses would have the comfort of knowing what their

taxes are going to be next year. right now it is up in the air. nobody knows. >> we are going to do one more quick question. we'll give each of you a minute and we will get to our closing statements. mr. iott, you are up first. i will ask you about the bush tax cuts. if you were in congress right now, would you continue all of the tax cuts? what would you do? >> i would continue all of them. that top percentage is extremely important for small businesses to file. small businesses or where jobs were created in this country. small business definitely needs that. there is argument that it will cost us x number of dollars said the government cannot afford it. it is not going to cost the government anything. it has not gotten it for several years. they said they want more income.

we have a spending problem in washington. that is what we need to address. >> mrs. kaptur, the same question of the bush tax cuts. what would you do? >> i would support the tax cuts for the middle class ought to level of $250,000. to extend it beyond that means that even my opponent would get up to that level. the cost of spending above that level for people like rupert murdoch or people who set up the big banks on wall street that costs a much of the harm that we are feeling today, it would be $700 billion. my opponent is incorrect. it is a huge cost to society. i think that would be a very reasonable approach and one that we could afford.

>> thank you very much for that question. we have gotten to the point where we have gone through all our questions. it is time for closing remarks. mrs. kaptur, yet the first word. >> thank you, again, to fox in toledo and the toledo free press for our discussion here. i am asking people of the district to think about what has been said tonight at the differences between us. my opponent does not support the minimum wage. i do. my opponent did not accept -- did not support the automotive industry plan. i do. my opponent supports nafta. i do not support nafta. i support the renegotiation of our agreements. i support the preservation