and you will not have nothing. you do not have nothing now. that is all i have got to separatsaid. guest: i appreciate that. we do not take foreign money. we do not take foreign mey. we do not take foreign money. one of the great things about my job is i sign all of the thank you notes thato donors tht give us money. our donor supported this was quite large contributions and we are grateful for that. we get a lot contributions -- in fact, more people give us a very small contributions -- $10, $20, $50 -- and some of these folks do not have a lot of money. unemployed bus driver, homemakers. i got a letter from somebody the other day who has been disabled for years. the unfortunate thing is they see george soros, all this talk

about money in politics, and they think what can i do? th guy said i do not have a lot of money, and disabled, but i will send you $10 because i am concerned about the direction of the company. that is one of the rewarding things i get to do in my job, and there are a lot of people that are concerned about the direction of the country, just like you are in ways that you expressed yourself very passionately. i think that is good for democracy, and i think the amount of robust activity we're seeing shows that people really care about the country, and they're willing to put themselves on the line to affected. host: your message seems to be resonating, because i've got lots of tweets on the disclosure of your donors. "i am very concerned about american crossroads of the u.s. chamber of commerce helping big business to purchase our government. when will you disclose your

donors?" and this twitter -- "who are the three largest donors in crossroads? whatercentage of total to each of them donate?" guest: if you were to go to the federal election commission -- we are not public yet. but we could a. you can go to the federal election commission website and find all of our donors from our large ones to our small ones, and below a certain level is not itemized under the federal election law. that is all out there for people to see. similar sorts of donors to the other organizations, but that is disclosed to the irs. the irs knows who we get money from, and if they see a problem, they can raise it, but that is not publicly disclosed. american crossroads discloses all of our contributions. we are not purchasing anybody. all of our money goes to

television stations that charge very high rates, as they are entitled to come for us to get our message out on the air about what we think is important. most of the issues that we're talking about, virtually all the issues that we talk about our issues that matter to everyday voters. they matter to everyday people, which is whe our jobs are coming from, how we are going to pay our national debt, what is the huggovernment health care bill going to mean to me and my family. host: next up is brian on the republican line. seek out the morning line. -- caller: good morning. you keep talking about the chamber of commerce and nafta. when i talked to the chamber of commerce, i ask them what do we speaking about how you expect this country to compete between

$1.50 an hour and $3.50 an hour in the auto industry. all i get are blank stairs because obviously we cannot compete. right now guys in michigan are looking to put up a plant on workers getting hired under gm and chrysler under the new tier system, being paid $13, $14 an hour. hardly anything to brag about in this economy. they would be hard to -- they would be hard pressed to save any money making $13, $14 an hour with limited benefits. we are born to put out the best batteries in the world. there is no doubt we are going to put out the best batters in the world. but there will be nothing to stop, once these factori -- they wl take that model and take it to either mexico or china or elsewhere. we cannot cpete at $1.50 and

$3.5an hour, so until we get manufacturing at a decent wage, we will not have a middle class. if we do not have a middle class, it is just futile. we gave up the automobile industry as the sacrificial lamb to the world, and we are searching for it. guest: thank you, sir. those are concerns that a lot of people have in this country, and they are very real concerns. we have 15 million people in this country who do not have a job. we have now an unemployment rate that has been above 9% for over nine months. at is the european style unemployment rate, and that is unacceptable. i believe that this country, with its people and its universities and its no-how and its technology, can't compete with anybody. we compete -- week -- can compete with anybody. the most important thing we need is a climate that will be in

favor of expanding business and will have an open and welcoming avant -- attitude based on lower regulation and lower taxes. right now in washington we have an administration and a congress that is viscerally cost of up to ostile toscerally high styl business. we are not improving that, and we need to desperately. hopefully, if we ve some balance to the environment here in washington, some balance to the current agenda that is being pursued, we will be able to make some progress in that area. host: last call is from dallas, georgia. democrats line. caller: good morning. i have a comment, and this has been on my mind for a long time.

it is amazing to me how the republicans are able to peuade the poor, uneducated people to vote republican and to even vote against their own interests. that is what they are doing, in my opinion. thank you. guest: i like to think that people can make good decisions for themselves, regardless of their educational or economic status. the second thing is, when we communicate on behalf of american crossroads, one of the things that we do is document every single thing that we say in each of our ads. a lot of it is corroborated from news sources and other places. certainly there are people that do not agree with it, sometimes they do. there are also able to criticize. there is a lot of discussion about what the facts are. i actually think that the more you have people communicating, the better informed people are.

you have candidates saying i am this kind of person, and they have a record that is contrary to that. i think it's good for the voters to know all the facts. i am sure we do not always get it right, but that is our desire. regardless of what their education or economic status is, they can make good decisions for the allies. guest: we found an interview that ed gillespie gave in 2007, and he said that he was very concerned about all the outside groups weakening the party structure. guest: i think that is a concern, a concern that has less to do with where money flows and the federal election laws. there are a lot of people who express that very concerned with the mccain-find old law passed in 2001. but people said that if you -- eingold lawfine g

passed in 2001. the republican and democratic parties are institutions that have been part of the lifeblood of this country. if you hand that in, that money and that activity will go elsewhere. that in fact has happened. it has been happening for years on the democratic side with the union get out the vote activity. it is happening on the republican side. if the parties were less restrained, less regulated, you would see more activity >>merrill goozner will discuss the unemployment rate.

john taylor will talk about banks and lenders. mark schneider looks at the cost of the american taxpayer for students to drop out of college. that is on "washington it journal -- "washington journal." >> get working on those videos for student can. there is $50,000 in prizes. this year's theme is "washington, d.c., through my lens." >> here is a quick look get some political news from around the country. republican john -- >> [applause]

thank you. thank you, folks. thank you so very much. thank you for being here. crosses for this incredible day. i am sure you are wondering why we are gathered here to date? -- here today. it is a great day to be a delaware democrat. could we get a round of applause to the inspirational choir? [laughter] i know you have heard some amazing comments today from a large governor, from our next congressman, john carney. [applause]

from senator ted kaufman, from senator tom carper. what a great program and a great day. [applause] you know, ever since the primary, there has been more attention to this race in little old delaware. lots of media from all over the country and the world asking about lots of other issues. while the opponent i am facing has changed, the issue i am and focused on have not. i am focused on the same thing i know you are focused on. i am focused on the 35,000 people in delaware without work today. the 3002 face foreclosure in their homes. i am focused on getting our state and our country back to work. [applause] as i have gone up and down the state and listened to people, i

have said over and over that this is what i want to go fight for in washington. i want the six words to mean something again -- made in the u.s.a., manufactured in delaware. [applause] i understand what happened in the republican primary. there are people in the state you are angry and frustrated. they feel disconnected from the and less partisan bickering in washington and they are concerned. as i have met with people and listen, some have said to me what they want is to take america back. that is not where i come from. that is not where i think you come from. together we want to take america forward. [applause] i take it very seriously the idea that this election is a job interview.

i want to go to work for you. i think it is important for us to look at those candidates in the campaign i am currently in. i spent eight years working for a manufacturing company. i spent six years running our second-largest government. i have made large -- i have made hard choices. i know what it is like to grow up in hard times and good times. i deeply care about this country. i think our point, where you are running for local or federal office, is to make sure as many families in delaware have a chance at a good job, at a good education for their children, and a strong and bright future. my opponent sees our society and government in a fundamentally different way. i believe in ideas. she offers etiology. she believes so strongly that government has no role. she proposed privatizing the veterans administration.

thank you for your service. now live by yourself a doctor. she has proposed ending or -- ending the social security age. i do not believe that the federal government has a role in our bedroom or our private lives. [applause] how you live, who you love, how you exercise those rights is all about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. i do not think the government has that role. [applause] i do think our government has an appropriate role in protecting the environment, investors, supporting our veterans, building our economy in partnership with a vibrant private sector. my opponent believes the opposite. she does not believe government

should be protecting the environment. her mantra is a "drill, baby, drill." i think at the end of the day this fight is yours and the lines are clear. i hope all of you -- i know all of you know how important this race is for our state and our country. over the last few weeks as i have been up and down the state, i have seen lots of people in passing -- old friends, those involved in service -- they say, "give me a call." today, i am calling. [applause] all of us understood here today are calling on you to say now is the time to stand up, to get out, and to share with your friends and family the stakes in this election. of all the people i call, of all

the people i ask for help and support, i am most helpful to our -- i am most grateful for our president and vice president who are here today. [applause] the last time i was here, the last time i was on the stage, i was on a riser with other delaware local politicians watching michele obama deliver one of the most incredible, most inspiring speeches i have ever heard in my entire life. i am sorry, mr. president, but we both married up. [laughter] [applause] michele -- the first lady speaking about her husband and the issues at stake in that election of 2008 was incredible. she was inspiring. she was moving.

not much longer on a beautiful day just like this, i joined with so many of you to hear from dan candidate, now president, barack obama. i was moved. so many volunteered, work, and voted for change in 2008. we believed in the possibility of progress and of change. more than ever, we now need to get to work together to make real that change, to deliver on that change, and to move forward on that change. we have only 18 days left till election day. i need you to connect with your friends and family to remind them of what we have fought and search for to build a stronger community. scripture teaches us that to those of whom much is given much is required. we have been given a great deal in this country. freedom, opportunity, the vote.

these are things we were not given easily. they were hard won. they were things that the people who came before us, people who are serving overseas fought for. they are ours today. they are our inheritance only because of sacrifice, only because of struggle, only because of others who stood up and demanded, asked for, fought for change. so please, as we go forward in these next 18 days, do not forget that fight. do not leave out your voice and your vote. we know something about fighters in delaware. we know something about governor jack markell who is fighting to bring our economy back. we know something about john carney who grew up in a big family and has fought for our middle-class and the journal -- fault for our middle-class his whole life. to those who fought to make wall

street reform real. our attorney general who fought to make to the promise of justice in our state. tom carper who has worked tirelessly for veterans and for education reform. we have fighters here in delaware. i am honored and grateful to be joining you today in the fight that matters most -- the fight to keep moving this country forward. [applause] but of all the people i just mentioned, we learned about fighting from the man who represented us in the united states senate for 36 years. a man who has for so long been a tireless advocate, who has fought for civil rights, who has fought for america's middle class, who has fall for delaware, and you now vice for

america each and every day. ladies and gentlemen, the vice president of the united states, our own joe biden. [applause] >> it is good to be home. how are you doing, pal? it is good to see you. i tell you what, i noticed no one missed me as senator. i had to say something about ted carper. all the times i served in the senate, i can say without fear of contradiction, no one has

made as much of an impact in his first two years as a senate -- as a senator then ted carper. -- ted kaufman. john carney, we have a great ticket. the president is always talking about chicago. and hawaii. hawaii is magnificent. chicago i like. he would not be president of the united states today but for delaware. let me tell you why. [applause] the way i look at it, without david clough and dan pfeiffer, we would have had a hard time.

on what to thank them pfeiffer's mom and dad. we owe you big. we owe you big. [applause] he produced a great delawarean. it is a delight to be home and a delight to be back with all of you. chris, when you're referencing all of those people, the president put his hand on my shoulder and said, "and the old guy." it all learn from me. i am not at all. actually, i am. [laughter] look, we are here for one overwhelming reason. there is a great deal at stake. you all got behind the president and me in this last election and delaware produced big for barack

obama and joe biden. i could not have been prouder of my home state. you played a solid role and overwhelmingly supported us. it meant a great deal to me personally. james joyce once said, "when i die, delaware will be written on my heart." delaware has always, always, always come through for me. [applause] it is really, really important that we keep this momentum going. it is impossible to keep this momentum going without us having the united states senate. as chris will tell you, the first guy that i called to ask to run for the united states senate, i'd think i may have been among the first to call you. i may have been beaten by

someone else. but we called to strongly suggest that chris coons run for united states senate. i think chris coons even had mike castle one. let me tell you why i call them. [applause] let me tell you white family, from my sister valerie u.s. campaign up and down the family -- up and down the state, the reason we feel so strongly about him is because like you, we know him. he has a genuinely keen intellect. he is a bright guy. that is self evident. the other thing i like about him the most, and i thank his mother and his father, he is a senator. he knows what he is in this. there are a lot of people in this audience -- i have been

asked, "if abiding can win in 30, anybody can win this." [laughter] you are laughing. [laughter] there are a lot of young candidates who come to me and say they are taking of running. i do not think there are many who have run in the last 30 years who have come by and said, "what do i need to do?" i always say the same thing. what are you willing to lose the election over? that is the measure of whether or not you are engaged in this for the right reason. it is something other than ambition. that is something i never, never, never wondered about chris coons. he knows exactly why he is engaged. he knows exactly why he has to

go to the honor and the real hard slog. he knows why it is worth losing over and why he has to win. it is about giving middle-class people and even shocked. just to level the playing field. my father always said he did not expect the government to solve his problems, but he expected them to understand his problems. this guy understands the problems of america. he understands the middle-class are barely hanging on. that is what this is all about. that is why i am absolutely convinced i can say without fear or reservation, when chris coons goes to the senate, you never have to wonder why you voted for him. this is a man of incredible integrity. [applause]

this is a man of action. look, i work with a guy who i have light from the day i met him. he needed me like he needed a hole in his head. we have become a genuinely good friends, close friends. this guy as a backbone like a ramrod. he has a brain bigger than his goal and he has a heart to match both. this is a man who knows what has to be done. this is a man who is not afraid to make tough decisions. i honestly believe, some of the kidney because you wonder how i can be optimistic -- i am optimistic because i know the history of the journey of this country. never ever with the american

people have given him a shot. the guy i am about to introduce to you is all about that. this is a guy who knows where america has to go and is not afraid to stand up and say it and is willing to lay out the vision. the president has ever been a great president has laid out a vision for the people as to how they can move from where they are. during the campaign we used to say that we americans know we do not have to accept a situation we cannot bear. we have to have the backbone to stand up and fight -- fight for what we know is right. ladies and gentlemen, my father said it differently. "when you get knocked down, there's only one thing to do -- get up." ladies and gentlemen, the president of the united states, barack obama, is getting america back on its feet. we have gone from hemorrhaging jobs to creating jobs.

we have gone from emerging debt to grabbing hold of the debt. we have gone from one of the least respected nations of the world under the last president to lead the most respected in the world. we have brought one budget thousand troops from iraq that we will keep the commitment of ending that war in afghanistan. [applause] en, what youentlema have now for a long time and the president has known as of late, is that i do not say what i domain and sometimes i don't mean what i say. i mean what i say and i tell it. delaware is coming back. the united states of america is coming back. in large part it is because of this man i am about to introduce -- the president of the united states of america, my friend, barack obama. [applause]

>> thank you. thank you very much. thank you. thank you so much. thank you, everybody. thank you. thank you very much, everybody. thank you. thank you. thank you very much. thank you. thank you so much. thank you. everybody please send a seat. it is good to be back in wilmington.

last time i was here it was a day just like today -- a spectacular day. we were outside. some of you were there. [applause] it was just beautiful. it is great to be back here in delaware. it is an extraordinary honor to be here to campaign for the next great senator from the state of delaware, chris coons. [applause] i want to acknowledge some of the extraordinary public servants who are here. you may have already heard from them or about them. all of them had been such great friends of mine and such a terrific workers on the -- on behalf of delaware. gov. jack markell is here. he has done a great job. there he is. [applause] the lieutenant governor is here.

senator ted kaufman has done extraordinary work of the last few years. thank you, senator. my great friend tom carper. [applause] delaware attorney general, bo biden, we are thrilled with the work he has done. we are also thrilled with the extraordinary service to our country. we are proud of him. we are grateful for him. [applause] and the former lieutenant governor is in the house. [applause] then there is this guy. [laughter] i have had to make a lot of decisions over the last 24

months, both before i was president and cents. the single best decision i have made was selecting joe biden as my running mate. [applause] i mean that. it is true. joe has been an extraordinary vice president, a great friend, a fighter, somebody who knows what our core mission is, which is making sure that we are growing this economy on behalf of the middle-class so they can live the american dream. joe has live that dream. he has not forgotten where he

came from. i know that me taking him out of delaware for a while was frustrating. i assure you it was worth it, at least for me. [laughter] i am grateful for all of you. that is why it is so important in filling these enormous use of joe that we get somebody who represents those same delaware values. chris is the kind of leader that you want representing you in the united states senate. [applause] he knows this state. he knows its values. when we talk about cleaning up washington, it is from the standpoint of somebody who has cleaned house as a county executive. somebody who has balanced a

budget. somebody who has cracked down on wasteful spending. somebody who even cut his own pay. you will not see too many members of congress willing to do that, believe me. [applause] chris has traveled all across the state talking to people, finding out what is on their minds, and listening to their hopes for the future. he wants delaware to be a leader on clean energy because he knows it will lead to new jobs in the industry. he has a plan to make it happen. [applause] chris is not looking to be a voice for special interests. he was to be a voice for delaware. this is where he grew up. this is the community he will fight for it to send him to washington. in a little more than two weeks, you had the opportunity in delaware to set the direction

of the state and country for the next several years. in two weeks you can continue the journey that we started in 2008. just like you did in that election, you can defied the conventional wisdom that says you cannot change washington, it cannot overcome the special interest money, you cannot solve tough problems. that has always been the conventional wisdom. it was the conventional wisdom two years ago. the remember that? everybody said, -- do you remember that? everybody said, you cannot do that. you said, yes we can. you can do the same thing two weeks from now. i want everybody to be clear, there is no doubt this is a difficult election. it is difficult here and across the country. although chris has run an extraordinary race, i do know -- i do not want anyone to take

this for granted. this is a top political environment right now. [applause] this is a difficult election because we have been through a difficult time as a nation. for most of the last decade, middle-class families sell their costs rise and their income all. we sell too many jobs disappear. there were too many parents that could not afford to send their kids to college. to the doctor when they got sick. for americans working two jobs, three jobs just to make ends meet. all of these problems were compounded when we had the worst economic crisis since the great depression -- the worst in most of our lifetimes. the recession has cost us more than 4 million jobs in the six months before i took office. 7 and earned 50,000 jobs lost? i was sworn in. 600,000 the month after that.

most of the jobs were lost before our economic plans had taken effect. it was a once in a generation challenge. i will be honest with you, joe were called this -- our hope was because this was such a unique challenge that it would cost both parties to put politics aside for the sake of the country. that was our expectation. our hope was that we could move beyond division and the bickering and began playing that had dominated washington for so long because although we are proud to be democrats, we are proud to be americans. -- we are prouder to be americans. [applause] but you know what happened.

republican leaders in washington made a different decision. i want to be clear, it was the decision of republicans in congress. i think there are a lot of republicans all over the country that wanted the same thing, but that is not what they saw in washington. their attitude, it was tactical on their part. we were climbing out of such a deep hole, they had made such a big mess that they figured it would take some time to repair the economy. longer than any of us would like. the needy people would be frustrated. they knew people would be angry. if they just sat on the sidelines and opposed us every step of the way, if they said no even to policies that they could agree with, that historically they have supported, then people might forget that they were the ones who caused the mess.

and if people's anger and frustration would lead them to success in the next election. that was their strategy. you have to give them credit. they took the short-term tactics. it was not a bad strategy. in terms of what was good for the country, it did not work out so well. the other side wants you to believe that this election is simply a referendum on the current state of the economy, but make no mistake. this election is a choice. this election is a choice. the stakes could not be higher. if they win this election, the chair of the republican campaign committee has promised to pursue the exact same agenda that they did before i took office.

we know what that agenda was. you cut taxes, mostly for millionaires and billionaires. he cut rules for special interests. and then you cut middle-class families lose to fence for themselves. we also know the results of that agenda. it is not as if we did not try it. we do not have to guess in terms of how their theories might work out. from 2001 to 2009, the slowest job growth since world war ii. from 2001 to 2009, and come for middle-class families went down by 5%. that was trumpeted in the "wall street journal." it took a record surplus entered into a record deficit. an agenda that left -- that let wall street run wild at the expense of people on main street. an agenda that nearly destroyed our economy.

that is what they say they want to get back to, the exact same agenda. if they take over congress, the other side has promised to roll back health reform so insurance companies can get back to deny new coverage when you get sick or denying your child coverage they have a pre-existing condition. they want to roll back wall street reform said the taxpayers or on the hook again for wall street bailouts. credit-card companies can hit you with hidden fees and penalties. mortgage brokers can use to it -- can steer you toward the most expensive mortgage. they want to cut back on education spending by 20% to help pay for a $700 billion tax break that only the wealthiest 2% of americans will ever benefit from. my sentiments exactly. [laughter] [applause]

this is the same theory they have been peddling for years. this is not as yet they went off into the desert after 2008 and said, "boy we really messed up. let's meditate and try to figure out what we did wrong." then they came back and said, " we realized the error of our ways. we have some new ideas." that is not what is happening. they are pretending that all that stuff did not happen. it is up to you to remind your friends and your neighbors and your co-workers. we tried that stuff. it did not work. we have been there before and we are not going back. we are moving forward, not that. [applause] -- we are moving forward, not back.

we do not want to give tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas, we want to get tax breaks to companies that are keeping jobs right here in a wilmington, right here in delaware. we do not want tax cuts for people who do not need them by the borrowing the money from china to pay for it and cut education in the process. we want to invest in young people right here in the united states of america because we know that the countries that helped educate us today are going to outperform us tomorrow. we do not want to go back. we do not want to get back to the days where insurance companies and wall street banks had free rein over the middle class. we do not want to see two years of gridlock, and game playing, and point scoring in washington. if we want to solve problems. that is what chris is running.

we want to solve problems for the families of delaware and people all across america. [applause] we want a growing middle class. we want an economy that is built to compete in the 21st century. because the steps we have taken, we no longer face the possibility of a great depression. the joke -- the economy is now growing again. the private sector has had job growth for nine months in a row now. we still have a long way to go. we have a lot of work to do. there are a lot of people hurting out there. i hear from them every day. families hanging on by a thread. that is what keeps me up that night. that is what keeps me fighting. i know this, the biggest mistake we could make right now as a country is to go back to the

same policies that cause this problem in the first place. the last thing we should do is return to a philosophy that almost destroyed our economy and decimated the middle class. that is what this election is about. not where we are right now, but where we want to go two years from now, five years from now, 10 years from now, 20 years from now. it is the work we have left to do. i bring this up not because i want to read litigate the past, it is because i do not want to relive the past. [applause] i want to reach for a better future. this election is a choice between our fears and our hopes. that is what is at stake right now. chris and i and joe, we have a different idea about what the next two years should look like. it descend i get rooted in our beliefs about how this country was built. we know government does not have

the answer to all our problems. we believe government should be lean and efficient. you have seen chris's track record. [applause] in the words of abraham lincoln, the first republican president, we also believe government should do for the people what they cannot do better for themselves. we believe in a country that rewards hard work and responsibility. a country where we look after one another, a country where we say, "i am my brother's keeper." i am thinking about everybody. i want every child to succeed. i want everybody to climb that ladder to success. that is the choice in this election. that is what we are about. that is why we are democrats. that is why we are going to win this election. [applause]

you are fired up. [applause] we see a future where the next century is driven by american innovation and american ingenuity. we want to get tax breaks to companies that are creating jobs and investing in research and development right here in the united states. small businesses and american manufacturers, clean energy companies. i want to solar panels, wind turbines, electric cars, and batteries made in the united states of america by american workers. i want to take the lead in energy independence. that is the choice in this

election. [applause] we see an america where every citizen has the train to -- has the skills to compete with anyone in the world. the other side may think it is a good idea to cut education, but let's think about this. do you think china is cutting education by 20%? is south korea cutting education spending, or india, or germany? these countries are not cutting back on education. they are not playing for second place. neither should we. the united states of america place for first place. -- plays for first place. [applause] that is why we took tens of billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies that used to get too big banks -- they are now going with a should be going, to students and families.

millions of young people out there are getting breaks on their student loans so they can go to college. that is why we want to make our new college tax credit permanent. it is worth $10,000 in tuition relief for each student who is going to college. [applause] that is the america we believe in. that is the america we believe in or the middle class is growing and opportunity is shared. the only limit to your success is how hard you are willing to work. that is like the tax cuts we want to make permanent will go to middle-class families. that is why we will fight the effort from the other party to privatize social security. no one is going to take the retirement savings of a generation of americans and handed over to wall street. not on my watch. [applause] that is why we are going to keep

fighting to keep the new protections we put in place. so insurance companies cannot drop you when you are sick, credit-card companies cannot jack up your race without telling you. that is the choice in this race. that is what we are fighting for. right now, the same special interests that would profit from the other side's agenda, they are fighting hard. they are fighting back. to win this election they are plowing tens of millions of dollars into misleading and negative advertisements across america. they do not have the courage to stand up and disclose their identities. they could be insurance companies, wall street banks, even for all corporations. we will not know because there is no disclosure. they had these innocuous

sounding names -- americans for prosperity, mom's for motherhood. [laughter] i made that last one up. [laughter] this is not just a threat to the democrats, it is a threat to democracy. [applause] the only way to fight it, the only way to match their millions of dollars is with millions of voices. we are ready to finish what we started in 2008. that is where you come in. you believed we were at a dethroning -- a defining moment in our history -- a crossroads. you believe that the decisions we make will not just affect us -- will not just affect us, but shape the lives of our children and grandchildren for decades to come. we not on doors and made phone calls. we waited in line to vote for the very first time.

he believed that your actions could make a difference. you might play some small role in making big change. now we are in the nest, not just in advocating for change, but doing the frustrating work of delivering change inch by inch, day-by-day. believe me, joe and i know. i understand that some of the excitement has faded since election night or inauguration day. that was fine. -- that was fun. [laughter] that is not what the election was about. i also know it is hard to keep faith when a family member still has not found a job after months of trying or another foreclosure sign is long on the house down the street. it does not help when you turn on the television and you hear

politicians tearing each other down or pundits to treat politics like a sport. but i am here to tell you, do not let anybody tell you that this fight is not worth it. do not let them tell you that we are not making a difference. because of view, there is a woman in new hampshire right now they're no longer has to choose between losing her home or treating her cancer. because of you, there are parents who can look their children in the eye and guarantee those kids are going to college. because of you, there are small business owners who can keep their doors open and put out help wanted signs in the window. because of you, there are nearly 100,000 men and women who are no longer at war with iraq. do not let them tell you change is impossible. [applause] do not let them convince you that we have not made progress.

we have made progress. i have been using this analogy as i travel across the country, these people drove the car into a ditch. joe and i, we put on our boots and went into that gates. it was muddy, nasty, and hot. there were bugs. [laughter] we decided we were going to get that car out of the ditch. we kept on pushing. we kept on shipping. every now and then we would look up and the republicans would just be standing there. [laughter] there would be fanning themselves, sipping on a slurpee. [laughter] we would say, "why do you not come down and help?" they would say, "it is muddy down there."

we kept pushing and i'll get this car all the ground pointed in the right direction. [applause] the car is a little did did up. it tasted good to the body shop and get a tuneup. but it is running and is ready to go forward. suddenly we get a cap on our shoulder and we look back. who is it? it is the republicans. they want the keys back. we have to tell them they cannot have the keys back, they do not know how to drive. [applause] you cannot have them back. us, but youde with have to ride in the back seat. [applause] we are not going to have a special interest writing shotgun. we want the american people in the front.

you have noticed when you want your car to go for, what do you? he put it in d. when you want to go backwards and you put it in r. do not let them take this country backwards. [applause] do not let them take this country backwards because you did not care enough to fight for it. if our parents, grandparents, and great grandparents had made the same decision years ago, we would not be here tonight. the only reason we are is because of past generations. we are afraid to push forward even in the face of difficulty, even in the face of uncertainty. they were willing to do what was necessary even when success was not promise and was sometimes

slow. you had to grind it out. debt is that we got through wars. that is how we got through depression. that is why we have workers' rights. that is why we have women's rights. that disease. we have today. the journey we started in 2008 was not about putting a president in the white house. it was never just about getting to election night. it was about every day after that and building a movement or change that endures. realizing that in the united states of america anything is possible if we are willing to work for it, like for it, and believe in it. i need all of you to keep on fighting. i need all of you to knock on doors. i need all of you to make phone calls. i need all of you to commit to vote for chris coons because because if you are willing to step up to the plate, we will win the election. we will reclaim the american

dream for this generation. thank you. god bless you and god bless the united states of america. [applause] [band plays "hail to the chi ef"] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010]

>> here's a quick look at some political news around the country. republican john kasich colds and 8-point lead over the incumbent democratic governor and a new the released poll. the former congressman is up 51% to strickland at's 49%. and republican robin horton is leading in his race. president obama will be

campaigning for democratic candidates in ohio on sunday. he will be in columbus, and we plan to show the remarks that evening. for more political news, go to our website, c-span.org/politics the 2010coverage of election continues with debates in the vermont governor's race, the missouri senate race, and the arkansas senate race. now debate among vermont candidates for governor. democrat peter shumlin, brian dubie, and for third-party candidates participated in a debate thursday posted by vermont public television. this is one hour, 25 minutes. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> tonight, the candidates' debates begin with a governors'

debate, with all the candidates on the debate invited to participate. here is our moderator. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> good evening. we welcome you. we're very pleased to broadcast tonight the very first debate of this year to feature all seven candidates on the ballot for governor of vermont. six are in attendance tonight. and they are -- brian dubie, the republican party nominee, cris ericson, from chester, on the united states marijuana ticket, ben mitchell of westminster, representing the liberty union party, emily patent, an independent. peter shumlin, the nominee of the democratic party, and dennis steele, an independent.

everybody gets a shot at my question, answers at one minute. i will mix up the order as we go along. the follow-up will be at the moderator's discretion. everybody gets a minute at the end for closing statements. loral will keep the time. for our audience at home, we invite your feedback. log onto vpt.org, where we will be hosting the on-line chat. now our first question. it is about leadership. how would vermont change with you in charge? brian dubie? >> i come from a family of six. i am the middle child. i learned being the middle child to bring people together. i honed the skills when i was chairman of my home town school board. i've learned, worked collectively with a fellow school board members. i served as for my's litani governor.

i led a petition drive to strengthen our lives. i have chaired the governor's homeland security advisory council and i have worked as a presiding officer of the vermont senate. the next governor is not going to need -- the next governor is going to need to bring vermont residents together. it will take people working collaborative laid to reform our regulatory process, to close the gap in this historic budget gap, to set aside partisanship and to acknowledge that our state, although it is great, there are a lot of things we can do to work to lower taxes, and that is the kind of leader i would be. >> chris erickson? >> i am showing leadership raising new issues that no other candidate is willing to raise, everyone from marijuana de- criminalization, which peter shumlin waivers on like a ship at sea, to issues that are raised in the united states,

such as a citizen's right to file a citizen petition to the environmental protection agency to stop vermont nuclear energy, despite what the state legislature does and despite what federal court actions for mott may take to overcome and bypass the state legislature. citizens can file a citizens' petition under 15 united states coach and not only put an end to vermont yankee of make certain that we never have a nuclear power plant in vermont ever again. i am raising issues that other candidates are not talking about. it will hopefully get into some of these things today. it might bring new issues, and that is leadership. >> ben mitchell? >> thank you very much, from what public television, we are very grateful to be here. hi, nicholas and mosey.

if you have to go to bed when this is over. hi, mom and dad. how would it change when i am governor? i have not raised a single penny. anything i say tonight will be what i truly believe. that i think makes me a very different candidate than many that we see. as a socialist, my agenda would be to bring many of the industries that have been having their way with the citizens of the nine states back into the control of the people. my primary goal as governor would be to create a labor bubble. the value of labor has been seriously decreasing over the past 30 years, since 1980, and it is time for the people of the state to get arrays. >> thanks. emily peyton? >> what i would bring to the state is a method to restore the power of money to the people. right now we have a two-party system that is owned by

corporate america. we're not seeing the will of the people carried out. when i am governor, i will be able to use specific means so that we can become recession- proof and we can return the power of the people to the government. i believe that the corporate government that we have right now is imperiling the earth, and i am here because i want to stand up for stopping that. also, stopping war, because war is insanity. but i think that the people who carry out have insanity in themselves. i know there are measures which can take in vermont to stop and powering them. and i want to propose them. >> how would vermont change with you in charge, peter shumlin? >> the first is my experience. the second is my vision. when experience, here is where i come from. i was born and raised in

vermont, but a small business. my brother and i bought it from our parents and we built it into a great success. i will be the first business person elected governor who has met the bottom line, created jobs, turned a profitable company into a more profitable company. i think it shows. one of the reasons the government is in such trouble in my appeal here is we have not had a business person running the show and a long time. -- is in such trouble in my appeal your. people from all parties to run for election just get elected. i don't. i want. my job will be to get tough things done. i have proven as my senate leader that i can get tough things done. i have a vision of where to go and i am not afraid to take on the tough challenge we need to accomplish to put vermonters back to work. >> bennis steele -- dennis steele?

>> brian dubie and the aristocratic shumlin do not get it. is not business as usual. the gold price is as high as it has ever been and we have problems that from what is not in charge of its destiny. even though they are elected governor, there will not be able to do the things that need to be done, getting control of our food supply. that means getting control of our energy, getting control of our foreign policy and our monetary system. those are the things we need to do to control our own destiny, and that is what i will do. i will leave vermont to a peaceful populist revolution to liberate ourselves from the federal government. it is what needs to be talked about and discussed logically. i will also call on the legislature to convene a special session to turn and -- to determine whether for much become an independent republic. >> a stock about the big challenge ahead.

i-- let's talk about the big challenge ahead. none of you have laid out how you would close the whopping budget gap, at least $112 million. ben mitchell, a couple of things that you think from what may have to do without, and our tax increases of any kind an option? >> i totally disagree. you posed a question as if our only choices are to raise taxes or reduce services. in a business, you can raise prices or reduce the value of your product or look for alternative sources of income. as a socialist, i agree with family that we need to have a from what credit union, where rather than sending state budget resources down to the big casino in new york city, we should use that to create loans, create a socialized banking system that creates loans for small businesses and to get people out

of the azeri system they are in now. if i were governor, i would pardon all nonviolent drug offenders, so you cannot incarcerate a drug user had a victimless crime in my administration, freeing up of that money immediately, creedon and new tax base, and that is the end of my time. -- creating a new tax base, and that is the end of my time. >> cris, what might you cut, and what tax increases be an option? >> what i would do is immediately initiate a massive eb-5 federal program to create new jobs. when people are working, they are paying taxes. get more money into the budget rather than cutting. i would immediately create a lot of new jobs with the eb-5 program. you would have the budget money without cutting.

we have not made adequate use of the program. if you have a family and need food stamps and don't apply, you are missing out. if you have a family and you need fuel assistance and you don't apply, you are missing out. the state of vermont is not adequately using eb-5. it has been used by ski areas, springfield hospitals. that allows wealthy foreigners to invest half a million dollars or more into new businesses. i will set up a governor website to match up vermonters who want to start a new business with foreigners who want to create new businesses and i will create 3000, 4000 businesses per year in vermont. >> em peyton? >> our budget deficit can be simply to taraval the wall street sales tax which is already levied -- with a wall street sales tax. that will discourage the hedge fund trading and also pay down

our deficit. there are other ways we can get income. we need a full hemp industry, because we needed for curative reasons and a way to not deplete the soil and grow something that will make our paper industry, clothing industry. hemp cures melanoma, cures cancer. it will bring a lot of income to the state. that said, we also need an entire debate on this, just this topic. >> dennis steele, or would you cut, and our tax increases an option? >> i would cut the federal government out of our lives. for what needs to be an independent republic. here are some reasons why. we are an empire. we're spending a trillion dollars per year on a foreign policy that is ridiculous, that we need got to be spending that money. the u.s. government has a 12

trillion dollar debt. add in fannie mae and freddie mac, is $19 trillion. social security, medicare, medicaid, 80 trillion dollars. that represents $200,000 per household in the u.s. for months share of the u.s. depends department -- defense department budget is $2 billion per year. we need to bring that money back to vermont and put it into agriculture, put it into schools, all the programs the people of vermont feel are important. >> senator shumlin? >> i am the only one on this panel has served on an appropriations committee, the bishop of budgets, voted on budgets, experienced matters. -- voted on budgets, administered budgets. at first, i would go after the $250 million of outside

contracts and then on performance space contracts, which saves 10%, 12% per year. second, i would go after the numerous independent contractors that this administration has brought in as they decimated the state wake first -- work force. third, i will appoint commissioners and secretaries who could speak for themselves and don't need spin people, press people at high pay to cover them. finally, i disagree with brian on this. i will fight for the middle class, not give tax breaks to 1400 vermonters to make the most money so i can cut budgets for everybody else. >> brian dubie? >> we're talking about balancing next year's budget. i will ask my opponent to be responsible with my proposals. we will have to make tough choices. one thing i can make a commitment is public safety would be a pretty, as with

programs like doctor dinosaur, protecting seniors. those are priorities of our state and would be a priority of my administration. i would continue to expand, like we're doing with performance base contract and under challenges for change. it was a try partisan initiative. that is copter braziel, but it is doing what it was intended to do. -- is copter braziel, but it is doing what it was intended to do. it is a difficult conversation, but we have to do that. we have to think from going from defined benefits to defined contributions. we have to do with families are doing across the state, putting spending on a sustainable trajectory like families. we will protect the most portable and make tough decisions. -- we will protect the most vulnerable and make tough decisions.

>> we have heard from senator shulman he will provide a program offering free preschool care to 3-and 4-year-old. what you think of this idea? >> i would like to see an increase in funding for home schooling. it is the home schoolers who are burning up the independent thinkers, paying for education twice. yes, i think the people who are having to work these less than livable wages need to have health -- help break up their children because they don't have any free time to take them. i am not a complete advocate for sending your children out early in their lives to be schooled by the federal government. so the conjoined machine and learn how to kill people. we need to be teaching peace. just sending them to school is

not enough. we need to listen to what they want to learn. they want to learn how to save our planet, how to stop polluting, how to live in peace, how to get along. that is not being taught in schools. >> what do you think, lieutenant governor dubie? >> i have compiled a list. there is a number of ideas. i asked myself on a number of occasions, senator shumlin has said he is not into taxes, but list of new programs he is on record for supporting is quite extensive and would require significant new funding. i have proposed an initiative to address the need for universal pre-k. i talk about trying to balance the fact that we're going to lose another 8500 students and our k-12 program.

we don't spend enough money as a state in higher education and we could make more investments in pre-k. it presents opportunities as we lose children going forward to rebalance the allocation of resources. i also propose tax credits as part of my job plan. i encourage people to review that in detail. >> dennis, what you think about pre-k? >> we're missing the point as to what the real problem as. if we're going to teach our kids what is right and wrong, we need good leaders and vermont. that leader has to address the fact that there are 6000 u.s. dead soldiers in iraq and afghanistan, 100,000 wounded. u.s. soldiers committing suicide at higher rates than at any rate since 1980. also, 20% of all suicides are made up of u.s. soldiers i am

for locally funded schools, locally controlled schools, bringing the control back to the communities where the to work with the parents and the communities and teachers to come up with their curriculum. if we want to address this problem, we have to address $2 billion. that will save the programs and put more in place. we have to do a lot with that money. it is important have a leader in place who is willing to do that. >> senator showmen? >> let me talk about why it is so important we know that every dollar spent on education saves $7 to $14 later on. more importantly, for about the money, let's talk about our kids, our most precious resource. we know if they get an early start, the earlier we get to them, the better chance they have at success. successful kids make.

employees, do well in school, and do well on the job force. that is the one of the ways we create jobs, having trained workers to work well, reid, do all the things we expect them to do. finally, women and for my make harder choices between the job they want, the child care that afford. let's get it done. having said that, i never said in the first year, in these tough budget times -- i am a business person. i have a stand reality. i did not say we would spend $32 million next january. i said it would cost $32 million for vermont to give every 4 and 5-year-old education. we spend $40 million on locking up non-violent criminals. that is how the math works. >> they say you can tell everything about a culture about how they treat their elderly and their young, i have to sort of recused myself.

i'm a language arts teacher. we have a big harvest festival to mark. please come check it out. it is awesome. i spent the past year being under-employed as an educator. it is hard a job as an educator, and we need to spend more money on the state level to get our work force employed, to drive up wages. at fort too many years, -- 42 many years, workers in vermont have had to take a backseat to the banks and other people plan with our money in the financial industry, and we're constantly talking about some of the opponents who prefer to spend $40,000, $50,000 and to spend 10 does not pre year to educate them. we need to invest in our populace, our people, and it is obscene to do otherwise. >> question about a new program to guarantee early childhood education. >> my campaign slogan is please,

people lovingly educating everyone and saving everyone. i don't see any problem with jacking up the tax on alcoholic beverages to help pay for it. i don't see any problem with jacking up the tax on cigarettes to pay for it, just as long as we write a law that says the increased tax on alcohol and cigarettes is guaranteed to go to the preschool program. we know for a fact that preschool helps kids alter their lives. preschool puts kids ahead. also, speeding tickets. i think we can put a tax on speeding tickets and just say, look, obviously cannot read the sign that says the speed limit, so that proves we need to start kids earlier in school. >> thank you very much. i want to stay with the education subject for another question. this has to do with getting control over the rising cost of

education, which in recent years has consumed a greater share of all available tax dollars, even as enrollment has shrunk. one r email, which at this question from joel miller, who wants to know, while some towns school andleagustubbornly clino administered of consolidation, please address your plan for dealing with this issue. what i would like to do is have a discussion about money. all of our issues are about where we will have enough money to do the things we want to do. there is not a broad understanding of what money is and is not an award comes. remember, the money is a system of faith. there are ways that would create money in vermont. a vermont unit of exchange would be very useful, and i know this

question is specifically designed to talk about the education. however, we are going to the core of how we create a monetary system in this debate about the banks we can create that are already successfully done and other states. once we do that and we create a monetary system that benefits for mott, we will essentially secede from wall street's and start going to a place where we are recession-proof and tax- free. i don't know how i can tell you this in two minutes. you have to take time to learn what i have to share. >> dennis steele, how do we realize the savings? how we deal with this issue of school consolidation? >> we have to turn control back to the locals, locally funded schools. they will be able to live within their means of what they can afford to do. back in the peak of vermonts

freedom, we had 2500 schools. in my hometown, i think there were close to eight. now there are zero in kirby. i would like to give back to the small schools that we can afford, that the community can take care of, and that they feel meets their needs for that community. i would also like to take the time to ask colonel dubie if you would be willing to commit to bring home the fefrom not national guard if he was governor? >> we will offer brian dubie a chance. what about this question about school consolidation. it is first reading joel miller and others in vermont. >> i will be there to welcome our soldiers home. i pray for their safety every day and every night and i pray for their families. as for mark's next governor, i'm very concerned about their safety -- as for my's next

governor, i'm very concerned about their safety. i appreciate your concern. this issue has gone all the way to the supreme court, as you are probably familiar with, as potential commander-in-chief. it would be my concern to bring our soldiers home as soon as possible, consistent with the law. >> we will give you extra time to get back to the question about school consolidation. >> i cut my teeth at the local level. i served my committee's five years as school board chair, six years on the school board. at 60, in some ways, we need a funding mechanism that is really driven by a state formula, most of which we cannot explain. school board members are confused, the general public is confused. we would reconnect local control. we have spending right now that is not sustainable.

we have the highest property taxes in the country. i would look for ways that could put education spending on a sustainable trajectory. we will lose another 8500 children and our state. i would work with our educators. i married an educator. i would work with our principles, with our superintendents, and as governor i would convene a conversation of how we didn't force, reinforce local control as we strive to make sure all our resources to when the classroom and build government structures consistent with that party. >> senator shumlin? >> let me tell you what i will not do. i will not destroy local control, which is what brian's proposal would do. this is an area where we respectfully disagree. he has proposed 2% mandated cap on school spending which undermines town meeting, local control. i think it is an unprecedented grab of power from local communities that decimates the

towns. i will do that. this is what i will do. i will give incentives to local communities, property tax incentives, to decide locally where they might consolidate. i want to say another word, a governor has to be have to look forward. eight years ago, 10 years ago, one of our biggest challenges was where we put all the kids? that is because we had so many jobs. employers biggest problem was to find employees, which means and people were here, they had babies, what school. if i am governor, i will create jobs. that is what i'm doing all my life. when we create jobs, young people will come and children come with them. i don't buy the assumption this is a permanent problem for vermont. >> ben mitchell, how do you persuade a reluctant towns to consolidate, or would you like to see that happen? >> absolutely not. my daughter goes to the westminster west school which

has an enrollment of 18 this year because many students have been moving to the center school. there is a lot of pressure on the town to close the school. it is amazing little school, movies made about it, and is two minutes from my house. my children ride their bikes to the school. they want to close it because they felt it would save $200,000. there is no evidence to back up. the research said by consolidating supervisory districts, you could save money by having fewer superintendents, having fewer hide paid professionals, but consolidating schools does not save that much money. at the people who donated the land for the school to be built on donated with the assumption -- i would say whoever is asking these questions, look at your priorities. we are nickel and diming the schools while we are giving a ig and lehman brothers or whoever, huge subsidies to the nuclear power industry. it is obscene.

what kind of culture have we become? >> chris erickson? -- cris ericson? >> homeschooling is legal in vermont. get rid of as many superintendents and been destroyed is as possible. we don't need all of these layers of bureaucracy, and make a deal with teachers for children from kindergarten or preschool up through and including sixth grade. the only things that are important are those years are math, science, reading, writing, the basics. they don't need anything more than the basics. they need to have the basic sound ground in those years. we need to make a deal with teachers, if you take six students, you get 10,000 less per student per take six into your home, that is $60,000. we need to make many, many, many, many schools similar to home schooling, with just one

teacher, six students, and the teacher gets paid it $10,000 per student, $60,000, no administrators, no superintendents. cut them out. >> i just want to say this. i support our troops. i was proud to launched operation holiday homecoming last holiday season when our troops were getting left at the base in indiana. we raised over 300,000 less to do that. the governor has to be right the first time. i publicly opposed the war in iraq before it was popular. i oppose this war in afghanistan. as governor, i would use the force of the governor's office to tell the president of the united states whether it is a democrat or republican -- have both made mistakes on this -- i believe as governor you are making a wrong judgment. >> anybody else? quickly. >> could you also say the state

of vermont would stand up to anybody who does not want to send their federal taxes until the federal government stops investing in war and stops being so war profiteering? couldn't you do that? why wouldn't you do that? >> one does not have the authority to do that as governor. what i would do is make very clear, as a voice for vermonters, that when either republicans or democrats make the wrong judgment about where we should be fighting and why, i will speak up. >> is fighting ever -- >> this goes back to the fact of trolling for months destiny. these guys want to be governor and they don't have charged over the national guard. we can bring them home if they want to. it's the political will of the people to make it happen. i am that leader. i am the one that these guys are not willing to take the stance and call for four months

national guard to come home. -- and called for vermont's national guard to come home. >> this aristocrat thing -- >> you inherited it from your parents. >> colonel bibby? >> i have already said what i needed to say. i have served in the national guard two decades. i served in the air force reserve. these are important issues to all vermonters. i am running for governor. in reference to senator shumlin's memory of the 90's growing population, the fact is we have lost 12500 students in the last decade. as the result of a declining population. at the same time, our pre-k population went down, the school staffing went up 22%. we have the lowest student teacher ratio in the country. we have to talk about this for

the next decade. we will lose another 8500 children. we have to be realistic, and leadership requires us to make decisions. >> a quick rebuttal? ben? >> i am against the unprovoked invasion of sovereign countries. i promise not to invade new hampshire if i'm governor. realistically, it is obscene that our values are such we're talking about cutting schools and education when we're spending billions and billions and billions of dollars as a society to invade foreign countries. i was against the war in afghanistan from the beginning and i would support any effort to end the unprovoked invasion of other countries. >> cris? >> as far as i understand that law, the national guard offer my receives funding from the state and federal funding.

as long as they are receiving federal funding, you have to follow federal law. that is all the risk to it. -- that is all there is to it. >> we have six of the seven candidates on the ballot on november 2. we invite your comments and questions online at vpt.org, where we are standing by to host the on-line chat. our next question has to do with health care. this was submitted on the telephone. >> if vermont went to a single payer health care system so small businesses no longer had the burden of providing health insurance to their employees, does that mean tax payers would no longer have the burden to pay for teachers and government employees's health insurance? thank you.

>> senator shumlin? >> i have proposed and will work tirelessly to try to enact a single payer health care system for vermont. the reasons you outlined are the reasons we need the plan. we cannot continue to spend $1 million more per day as a state than we spent the day before on health care. it will bankrupt us. at second, it is driving a school costs. it is the biggest challenge for school boards, shifted on to tax it. property-tax payers. it is forcing small businesses who want to thrive not to be able to survive. it is their biggest rise in cost. i have a plan. brian says it cannot be achieved because we need waivers. i will work hard with senator sanders and senator leahy to get those waivers. i think we can get it done. we have to get this cost under control, stick with the current

team with brian dubie and year cost will go up. go with me and we will get costs under control, beat the rest of the country to doing health care right. >> brian dubie? can he pull this off? >> he is good at making promises. that is at least in excess of the billion dollars according to the general assembly study committee. i will make promises i can keep. from what has been rated the healthiest in the nation three years and a row. what i would make a promise to vermonters is we would continue to expand the blueprint for health. 70% of our health care dollars are addressing chronic diseases. i am excited that one of the spires of excellence is in this area, trying to use leveraging the academia, professionals to

make a difference as it relates to health care delivery in our state. i would also leverage the federal legislation and the creation of exchanges and tax credits like they're hoping to use to achieve the goal of lowering costs for small businesses, and universal access across the state. those are promises i can keep and i would like to do. >> what do you think, dennis steele? >> he is talking about getting waivers to get single payer health care from the feds. it shows these guys have no power over the state of vermont. they need to have charged to take for mott and its own destiny. that is the issue we're dealing with. -- they need to have charged to take vermont in its own destiny. colonel dubie is not willing to ask for the return of diverthe vermont national guard. it is a great plan and would

probably work if we were an independent republic in charge for on destiny. we could just do it. let's make it happen. >> ben mitchell? >> i am a socialist and i have been advocating socialized medicine every time i have been a candidate for any office. i think it is funny that some of my colleagues here laugh when the talk about a single payer system and talk about an unrealistic promise when rest of the world, the rest of the industrialized world is laughing at us. we pay twice as much as any other industrialized country and we cannot insure everybody. who are the insurance companies? insurance, finance, is all one big thing. we send them our monthly payments. what do you say to a plan that says you pay $200-$500 per month, $5,000 per year, plus $5,000 deductible. so if you have any sickness, you

are paying for, plus giving insurance companies 5000 less per year, and if you get sick a drop b. we need socialized -- and if you get sick they drop you. we need socialized medicine. >> cris ericson? >> i agree partially. when you go to school in vermont, you don't pay insurance. your school is not billing you for insurance to send your child to school. you pay taxes and taxes pay for the school. you don't buy school insurance. you pay taxes and the taxes paid for the school. let's pay taxes to vermont, to the states for basic health care clinics with a very defined amount of basic health care. basic health care hospitals with a very clearly defined amount of what you can expect and not expect when you go there, just like a school, and the rest of it, leave it to capitalism, the free market enterprise.

i just want to say that obesity is one of the major health problems and vermont. it causes adult onset diabetes and heart attacks and strokes. i have one idea to reduce obesity. i want swimming trials. the majority of lakes and ponds -- let me have a moment. the majority of surfaces of lakes and ponds are devoted to motorboats, canoes. and fishermen. swimmers do not have equal rights to surface water. we need swimming trials -- trails. >> emily patent? >> i have doctors and my family, so i know that insurance and law did not belong in the healing practices. they make them appear. we also need to look at poverty as a health issue.

we need to remove the stress of poverty. i am proposing a vermont unit of exchange. also, if we have organic farming, and organic food on every table, we will reduce our problems with health. mandated contributions to private insurance corporations, in my mind, are illegal and criminal. we also need to fund natural healing and we also need to take responsibility for our bodies and knowing ourselves. we cannot keep externalizing it to the doctor in the white coat. >> i want to follow up, brian dubie said this is a billion dollar program he issues that figure in advertising as well. do you dispute is a billion dollar proposition? where does the money come from? >> brian is running a campaign

of fear. i'm running a campaign of opportunity. it is 8 $5 billion program. that is what we're spending on health care and state of vermont. the question is simple, the believe the federal bill will help you out? if so, go with brian. if you want a governor who has the courage to do everything in his power, not a promise, but a plan, to get what i am talking about past, go with me. why is it so important? stick with brian's plan and you have another million dollars per day for the next eight year, roughly $2.5 billion hidden tax on every small business, every person living in the state. this is the biggest tax increase in vermonters have faced. imagine this, somebody is running for governor and say i will increase your taxes $1 million per day. that is what he has just done and said. i have a plan to fix it. it is $5 billion.

we only pass it if it costs less by getting the insurance company profits out of the picture and using technology to drive a system that is affordable and treats health care as a right and not a privilege. >> brian, why don't you respond? >> acta 60 is from the top down. this is doing to health care top-down management from the capital. this is an analysis of what it would cost. we are a state of 620,000 for minors. 25% of our population starts at hitchcock where there receive medical care. i am trying to be realistic. i have not yet mandate business person who has said if we enacted a single payer system that would be a boon for business. i have no question about the rhetoric. it is the reality. my promises, i can keep.

universal. kay, single payer health care for a state that has some of the highest income taxes in the country, we need to figure out how to lower taxes and not make promises we cannot keep. >> dennis? peter is not willing to bring home the vermont national guard. maybe if our governor could stand up to the federal government to bring our troops home and close all the bases, 1000 basis, we would have a trillion dollars back to the state to make that program. colonel dubie, with top-down management, what are we under with washington. --n't that top-down manage i top-down management? >> we need to look at the states that have gotten it right. north dakota has 600,000 people. back in 1919, they created their

own state bank. now what do they have? fdic insured, the only state in the union that had job growth and income growth. we put that here in vermont, would add $4 billion and the treasury. then we make the loans for the things we want to see and the interest comes back to vermont. that way we can fund. the doctors and nurses who want to go to school, an exchange for their service in the community. we have to force ourselves from the federal corporate banking. >> i have not heard anybody say the will propose a tax to pay for single. . >> a socialist finance, all the money going to credit cards and the large wall street firms is coming into the state of vermont.

it is using the money productively. at the same time, the issue of health care is an artificial shortage. it if we triple the number of doctors we say in exchange you have to work for the state and a living wage, $40,000 per year, they have to work for us for five years and be plastic surgeons and whatever. then we have a community-based health care system where they work for the state. it saves money. and bring more people into the state. >> quickly. >> as a small-business person, when i get the bill every year, it goes up 10%, 20%, 30%. two years ago, it is 30% for our

company. that is a tax increase, money out of your pocket. we have doctors designing a system that would give us the option to pay for it that the next governor has the opportunity to run with it. can we design a system, and i said we must, that contains cost so we're not spending a million dollars more tomorrow than today. i think we can do it. despite what bryan says, it is not a promise, as a plan. we need a governor who is proven getting tough things done, has the vision to take us there, and takes on the real challenges. this is the top challenge for vermont. >> i have to move on because we have a lot more questions. >> how are you going to pay for it? >> we're going to create a bank and the interest -- >> is there a tax in mind? >> we are paying for it right now. if he said to my business, peter, have a deal for you, we figured out how to contain

costs, you have no more increases the next five years, we would say, wow, how fast can we sign up? systemt be a wash, this everywhere else in the world reduces cost. this is a cost question, not a tax question. >> military spending is the problem. >> let's move on. we have some good questions. this is no easier. this comes from russ, "if the vermont legislature passes a death with dignity bill, similar to oregon, giving terminally ill patients the freedom and choice to make their own and of life decisions, would you sign it? >> yes. >> yes, and i will tell you why. i met a woman recently you asked if i supported and of life choices. she said i am suffering from cancer. i have cancer that is very

painful. i have outlived my physicians, i have outlived almost everyone who takes care of me in terms of where i should be right now. i know the next, the last two, three weeks of my life will be extraordinarily difficult and painful. i don't want government to stand in her way. oregon has figured out a smart, careful way to deal with this. i think it is between the very terminally ill patient and her provider. i believe that about choice as well. brian disagrees with me on both of these. i feel strongly that government should stay out of the way of really important personal decisions. >> emily peyton? would you sign such a bill? >> i would, and i would remind everyone that spirit is eternal. also, i want to go back to the health-care issue. we have to do education about

what corporate food does to our health, but as pertain does. we have to alert people and say they need to be eating organic all the time and we have to make it affordable for everybody. it is a right. >> ben mitchell? >> i think it is a free country and people should be free to care for themselves, with dr. care especially. >> cris ericson? >> i would let it pass into law without signing it. >> why? >> because of religious feelings. i respect other people's religious feelings. i understand that very recently in great britain they finally made it druidism an official religion. they worship the sun, the stars, spirits, whatever. nonprofits in great britain can

collect money as druids. i respect other people's religious choices, but for me i would not sign it and let it pass into law without signing it. >> brand to be? -- brian dubie? >> we share our concerns about this type of legislation. i would make a commitment about signing this. i would be inclined not to sign it. this is one of the reasons we shared at a press conference. people in the disability community feel it would put their members at risk, especially when you contemplate a single payer health care system and tight budgets. they expressed concerns, real concerns. what i would do is expand the work that the attorney general has done and the department held has done on making sure that care is available to vermonters in stages of life. this is not an academic

situation. i have been in the end moments of both my parents and watch them struggle. i joined members of the out of the darkness walk to support community for people who experience suicide. the suicide rates in oregon are up significantly as a result of the legislation. that would be a concern, sending the wrong message to people contemplating suicide. >> a >> another email question goes like this. as vermont becomes more diverse, what would your strategy is be as governor to address harassment in public schools and racial disparity in our criminal justice system? >> now that i have time, i am curious what percentage of the money being used to fund the attack ads on television is coming from the insurance industry. because they are being defended

vehemently by you and you are taking the money and using it to attack people on personal grounds. it would be nice to be able to know that, but we cannot know that. what what i do to keep people from fleeing each other? -- from bullying each other? in the past 30 years, we have seen a decrease -- median income has decreased. every time the economy got hot enough to actually increase our wages, they would raise interest rates, and meanwhile lowering interest rates to give us a lot of access to free capital so we could get easy money from credit-card. then we borrow and a jack up prices and sold off to the fund took industries. don't believe people. don't do it. we need strong teachers? don't cut the budget on education. >> dennis steele?

warfare.end class it will have a better society, people make money, people get food. since 2007, 43% of americans were living paycheck to paycheck. 2000, it is 49%. 2009, 61%. a 2010, 77%. we have to look at the underlying issues. the problem is 10% of the people in the u.s. are controlling 90% of the wealth. this is class warfare. it stems into other issues. we have to continually address that and make sure we understand liberating vermont is the only way to stop it from happening. >> what about bullying in schools, emily peyton? >> you see this symbol? there is.

you know how we have volunteer fire departments. we will work on a volunteer , people trained in mentor ship, chaperoning, and these people could also be reimbursed through the vermont unit of exchange. i will do this whether i am governor or not, because our police force is working they should be rewarded for promoting peace. they should get higher salaries for the fewer crimes they have in their communities. we have to ship the paradigm. everybody wants to support two- party candidates. i think we need to look first at what creates -- what is the

lowest common denominator. what causes racial disparity and financial disparity? how many parents looked up to barack obama despite his color? what we are really looking at is more a financial disparity than a racial disparity when it comes to school children. if they are looking down at another kid, it is because the kid is poorer or comes from a poor family. in the criminal justice system, the rich person does not go to prison in vermont. the poor ones do. it is not so much racial disparity in the criminal justice system, it is financial disparity. people do not get it -- rich people do not go to prison in remark -- in a rut. -- in vermont. >> boast bullying and racial

harassment are big issues in vermont. we need to talk about it. we need to go into schools and talk about discrimination and what is causing that. i think howard dean was the last governor and the example of the kind of governor i would be on this. he devoted a whole address to racial equality. he went out to the schools and talked about it to kids. that took courage. that is what i would do as governor. second, there are young kids are learning to play cooperatively without bullying each other. the sooner you get kids into a situation where they are cooperating and learning together, the last bullying he will have. >> brian dubie? >> my kid was in a school where

bullying lead to suicide. this is not some academic thing. as chairman of my hometown school board, i accompanied the father who lost his son in a series of visits across the state talking about his experience. taking the great purge from that experience and try to make a difference in sharing that difference across the state. i had done that. the people who think this is a money or class issue, this is a issue across all our states. it transcends the issue of bullying -- bullying transcends gender, race, and money. it is something we need to be cognizant about. we do need to talk about it. we need to educate people about it. part of our curriculum helps teachers and helps bring parents into our schools. the only way we can address it is to bring it out into the open and talk about it. i would do that as a vermont's next governor.

>> this has to do with bullying. we need to look at what the united states government is doing around the world and may be addressed the issue with our children. they see us becoming be bullied around the world by occupying other countries and killing people in other countries. maybe if we stop that our children might learn something from us. >> it can also tell them to stop watching television. >> but not tonight, please. [laughter] you're watching the vermont television gubernatorial debate. we are here until the top of the hour. we have a studio audience here. we invite your participation at home. we have six of the seven candidates on the ballot who are here in the studio with us. one, dan feliciano, was invited but he did not show up tonight. i want to continue with brian dubie for a moment. let me address this at all.

we have not had a pro-life governor since roe vs. wade. that makes some vermonters nervous. would you address concerns that you might be too conservative on social issues for moderate voters? >> in a country, i think there are 25 per life governors. the abortion issue was settled in the state of vermont before it was settled on the federal level. i was a pro-life lieutenant governor. my agenda is to create jobs. that is what my campaign is all about. some of the things i have done as a pro like lieutenant governor is join the secretary of state in agitating for baby safe legislate -- in advocating for baby safe legislation. vermont right for life came together and found common ground with the pro-choice groups. i have worked with project family to promote adoption.

i have advocated for state allocations of dollars for pro adoption initiatives. that is the kind of work i have done. that is the kind of common ground, common-sense work i will do as a moderate governor. >> i do not think that the government should be compelling people to have children. i think it is a complete overstepped its authority. what it demonstrates is what i find to be a very frightening, 4-right movement in this country, which is bringing a lot of divisive social issues to the forefront. we talk about bullying, what about radio and television personalities who are whipping up racial hatred? they are using racial hatred and a xenophobic agenda to raise money and raise their political interest. it frightens me. this is a political agenda which is really masking a very hard,

economic agenda of the extremely rich billionaires' and millionaires who donate to their campaigns. these are the people who actually are finding the republican campaigns. although you may not stand up for your rights and say that you want to promote -- >> is brian dubie too conservative to be governor of the state? >> i am really concerned about this issue. brian and i disagree on this one. i am pro-choice, he is pro-life. i am the father of daughters. when bryant says, "let's talk about jobs, not this issue." i take that to mean that every woman in vermont -- this is why it matters to have a pro-choice governor. 18 states separate legislation on the governor's dennis limiting a woman's right to

choose. brian would sign that legislation. in the case of rape and incest, bryan said he is pro-life. i think that is not in keeping with most of the vermont voters values. it matters. it matters deeply. for the conservative cream -- supreme court it matters. i will defend a woman's right to choose. this is a decision between a woman and her provider. i think it is a real issue that we should be aware of. >> once again, spirit is eternal. if you are going to be right to life, what about when babies grow up to be 18 and the poverty trap? there's not enough money for them to get educated so they go over to the war machine over

there. i find it offensive that you, peter and you, brian, talk is it your the only people in the race to are going to win. i find it offensive that the press as not covered all of these candidates. >> if you have equal billing tonight, emily. on topic though, what we get to cris ericson. >> vermonters are very divided on this topic. in spoken to vermonters who are 100% against abortion. it does not matter if the woman was raped. that is god's child and she does not feel comfortable with her baby, put it up or adoption. i have also spoken with vermonters who are concerned that there is no planned parenthood in windsor county.

one gentleman told me that he gave a whole lot of money to planned parenthood and then they packed up a month or so later and left vermont and moved over to new hampshire which is too far away for a teenager without a car from springfield to go to. in southern vermont, people have extreme opinions. they are totally one way or totally lean the other way. personalspect people's views. >> the question is if whether he is too concerned with social issues. >> i would like to be governor of vermont because i would like to decentralize the programs back to the local levels. that would make it more responsible and give the people of the committee's their own -- in charge of the programs in

their area. that is the way switzerland does it. they have won the best health care systems in the world. the some of the best schools. they have a currency that is backed mostly by goals. -- mostly by gold. >> the question -- you can rebut anything you have heard, or should we move on? >> this is an issue -- i am running on jobs. that is the issue that is important for vermonters. i met a woman in the northeast kingdom who said the social issue is a mom or a dad might lose their job. that is my focus on began to seize the -- that is my focus on my candidacy. that would be my commitment. >> given the government's race -- given the governor's raced

today, the former governor essentially said it would be dangerous for one party -- referring to the democratic party reject -- to control the governor's office. is he right? >> he is right if you are a republican, i guess. no, he is wrong. let me tell you why. i have served under both. let me tell you the difference. under howard dean, this is what happened. we had on ending employment. as i mentioned, the biggest problem was where we find workers. we were ending surpluses. we passed the biggest tax cuts in vermont history. we built up the rainy day fund. we passed doctor dinosaur giving every child in the vermont health care. we had unending prosperity. under this team we have lost

over 10,000 private-sector jobs, the middle class has lost their and comes -- have lost their incomes. if you go with split government that is what you get. if you're a governor who will build jobs and get things done, send one to the legislature that would get things done. >> vermonters salt what things can be done. the last legislative session led the charge to override the governor's veto. they raised new taxes and impose the new budget over the governor's veto. when peter talks about getting things done, he has been in charge of super majorities in the vermont senate. the governor vetoed two pieces of legislation. he could have gotten done what everyone did to get done.

this has been a national recession. in some way vermonters have been served well. we have an unemployment rate that other states would envy. a 6% unemployment rate. can we do a better job? absolutely. i think vermonters are looking for a balanced government. my candidacy and my service as vermont's next governor would be all about finding ballots. there are eight -- finding balance. there are a lot of people who feel they are not being served by the legislature. i would strike a balance and serve the people of vermont. >> i think we need a independent to be governor. they can work bedsides of the party. they will not be loyal to their party system. i think it is important for that to happen. i feel that i am the person to do that job. i would like to be your governor. let me bring it back to the northeast kingdom. lydell plant is completely

closed. it is only 10 years old. jobs in the northeast kingdom are important, but we do not need a military industrial complex jobs. we be sustainable jobs. we need to realize and decentralize our lives realize the economy to make it better for all of the people in the northeast kingdom. >> ben mitchell? >> this election is about jobs. i do not need to judge somebody around with me it because i had been unemployed in the recent past. on the way it is like to try to pay for wood and try to get your life together before winter. it is really hard. yet meanwhile, there is all of this huge amounts of money coming into the state to pay for

political advertising, to manipulate the voters into something else. my question is where is the money coming from and where is it going? like that. the reason why is i know it is hard to make a living here. you know it is hard to make a living here. i work today. i had to sneak out of the meeting to get up here. i have to work tomorrow. i had a job where i actually have to show up. most vermonters do. to come up here and say it is about job, you have to recognize what it is like to look -- what is like to work for a living in the state. >> any danger of having one party controlled the house, the senate, and the governor's opposite? >> i do not think the democrats are any better than the republicans. we need to have an independent person who is not owned by corporate politics. the minimum wage -- when somebody worked all their hours

in the week, they still come back without a wage. that is slave wages. what i have in mind is an exchange to make up the difference so we can give people the dignity of when they have worked all the best hours of the week that they come home with enough value to be able to have an honorable living. people may say that you are not about to create -- allowed to create a currency. california has already done it. they have done it as a promissory note. if the democrats are in control, that would be a totalitarian government. a totalitarian government is completely illegal under federal law. it is also dangerous to just have democrats and republicans because they are both getting the campaign funding from the same corporations and from the same defense companies.

if you, for example, go to the ftc website and look at the list of all the defense companies, they are giving practically equally to the democrats and republicans. the democrats are so homogenized and so pasteurized and they talk so often about meeting at the middle of the aisle, they are hardly any different than the republicans. >> one more question because we are running a little short on time. will keep this to 30 seconds if we could. as far as personal character, share with us -- our mothers told us to learn from our mistakes. some -- what mistakes that each of you made in your adult lives and what did you learn from them? ben mitchell? >> it is possible i may a mistake when i was asked to run for governor. i am going to be really tired tomorrow. [laughter]

i have made a lot of mistakes. i think it is interesting that we are doing this personal integrity ticket and beating each other up again. i do not think we should be beating each other up over personal integrity issues. >> emily peyton? >> i made the mistake on the last debate where i did not answer the question because i wanted to shift the conversation. i felt that i should have honored the fact that i was being asked that question. i make mistakes all the time. it is true failure and learning how to reach for the better answers that i had this journey for. >> was mistakenly made in your adult life and what have you learned from them? >> the biggest mistake in terms of politics has been not to be clear on why i am who i am. i am was born dyslexic.

i learn differently. as a result i had to defend myself with my verbal skills. i think i sometimes come off as slicker than i am in my heart. i used my mouth to get to grade school when i could not read. the result is that i can be fast with my tongue. i think i should be more honest with people about the fact that that is why i am because that is the way i was born. i am a humble, decent person who is doing their best for vermont. >> i want to tell a story about a friend of mine. when i was young i took a matchbox cars and cap that car until i was an adult. i remember pulling back are out when i moved back to vermont with my family. i gave the car back to him. there were tears in his eyes. it was the wrong thing to do. did not dwell on negativity.

>> if i have made a mistake it is doing a lot of things and try to balance being a father of four children. i served as a colonel in the air force reserve. i am proud of my service in the national guard and the air force reserve. i served as a captain for american airlines. i served as vermont lieutenant governor for many years. i have juggled the responsibilities of having four children in high school in the past several years, and children in college. if i have made a mistake it is juggling family responsibilities. >> thank you. our time is short and we have just been up for closing statements. we drew an order before we started here tonight and each will get one minute beginning with ben mitchell.

>> we talked about finishes but there are a lot of issues we have not covered. how many of us are in trouble of closing [unintelligible] how many of us are in -- are in favor of public ownership of electrical companies. how many of us have smoked pot in our lives. raise your hand. how about legalizing it? how many are in favor of that? could it ready for the state. what about don't ask don't tell? let's end it. institutional discrimination? note? the mosque near ground zero? how many think they should be allowed to build that? how about redistribution of wealth? the reason the economy is the way it is is because there has been a huge up load of wealth.

it is time to redistribute. people of vermont need a raise. >> dennis still. >> i am a u.s. army veteran. i am the father of two large children. dan is right on. we are in class warfare. 10% of the people control 90% of the wealth. that is wrong. that is what we have to change. we are going to have to begin liberating ourselves from the federal government. we need a governor that will be able to look at every dollar coming in and see if there is a way we can send it back with a note attached to the congressional delegation to bring back the vermont national guard and solve our own problems here locally. that liberation process will become much easier to do. we will take control of our food, our energy, our foreign- policy, which will be a form policy of not intervention, and

our monetary supply. thank you very much. >> peter someone. >> i want to put vermonters' back to work. i do not want to be governor so badly that i will undermine anyone's character or tell untruths about their positions to get there. i will spend the next four weeks talking about the contrast anti- choice between myself and brian dubie. there are real differences. i am a small business person who wants to use my skills in the legislature to put vermonters' back to work. i have a vision for where we need to go and how we will get there. we can do a lot better. i am very optimistic about our future. i would not run a campaign of fear. it is a campaign of opportunity. i hope he will vote for me. >> brian dubie.

>> it that is the case, why is the rhetoric different from the reality? you are still run in an ad that attacks my integrity. here's my commitment. my commitment is i am going to talk about serious issues. i will not make jokes and dismissed them. these are serious issues. these are serious times. public safety is a serious issue. vermonter's expect a good candidate for governor to conduct a campaign about serious issues. my campaign is focused on job creation. i have a 10-point plan. i have listened to thousands of vermonters will as i put together my plan i am encouraged that the 1800 small businesses of of vermont had endorsed my plan and my candidacy. my spirit as a candidate in my spirit for vermont's next

governor is to bring people together -- rich people, people of humble means, bring them together. that will be my commitment. >> thank you. next is emily peyton. >> i think the problem with the world today is there is too much testosterone. i think it is really important that we learn to nurture. i think these people here are willing to share their salaries, are unwilling to share the work. i will give up that ego to get the best job to the right person. i do not need to do it the way people do. i also want to say that i want to get a reading list for people at home. read the book "ask and it will

be given." we have things that we have to deal with that are big. i am done. >> thank you. >> i want to carry on a conversation with vermonters in the next few weeks about what is happening in california to see it that is of the debt vermonters want. californians will vote on whether or not to legalize marijuana and tax it. the state of california is expecting over $1 billion a year in new taxes from the legal sale of marijuana. i want a conversation with vermonters' about what they think about california. let me show you what is going to happen in california. rain rain rain. >> hello? >> we have a special today. we all u.n. does analysis of california ultrahigh marijuana

with 6 ounces for free. when the shipment comes, you crack open the free box, you take a 23 ounces and try it out. if it does not achieve 50% higher and at the height is that last 50% longer will refund your money but you get to keep the half-dozen for free. that is what is going to happen in carolina if they -- in california if they legalize marijuana. >> gracias. thank you all candidates. we are short on time. we'll say goodnight. vermont public television continues this series with the candidates for lieutenant governor. tomorrow night we invite you back here for our political roundtable called "vermont this week." thank you to our candidates and to all of you at home, good night. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010]

coverage's continuing it of the 2010 elections continues sunday with the debate for the kentucky senate race. live coverage begins at 7:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. c-span's coverage of the 2010 elections continues tonight with the debate for the missouri senate race. then, the candidates running for senate in arkansas. after that, we will hear from a group working to elect republicans this november. >> justice stephen breyer to go it is sometimes hard to avoid your basic values. how you see the country, how you see the relationship between deval and the average person in this country. i think these values are part of you and they will, sometimes,

influence and approach or the question is very open and where it the nets. >> supreme court justice stephen breyer and his new book sunday night on c-span. >> now, missouri's u.s. senate candidates, roy blunt and robin carnahan. they face off in the first of two debates. the debate was held thursday at the kansas city public television studios. the candidates are running to replace the senator who is retiring. this is one hour. ♪ >> this broadcast is made possible in part by a repeat of missouri. >> my name is jim clemens, president of aarp missouri, encouraging all citizens to get out and vote. it is your right, your decision, your vote. >> after nearly 1/4 serving here

-- 25 years, kit bond is stepping down. who will you choose to replace him? roy blunt or robin carnahan? you have no doubt seen their campaign ads. now, they tackle the issues face-to-face. it is the missouri united states senate debate. here is your moderator. >> it has been a long and expensive campaign. the two major party candidates have raised more than $50 million to try and win this seat in the senate in the middle of the country. all of that money has brought lots of 30-second commercials. until now, these candidates have never been in the same room to debate the issues face-to-face. is missouri's secretary of state robin carnahan as black and white and gravy as her opponents ads make out?

this ominous music always play in the background when former house leader roy blunt plays -- arrived on scene? you have a question -- the chance to hear the answers as they are peppered with questions. to maximize our time, we are abandoning long introductions in laundry-list recitations of debate rules. we will bring you even more questions and hopefully more answers. both candidates wanted to make opening statements. two minutes was agreed upon. republican roy blunt, you are first. >> thank you. thank you to kansas city public television for hosting this debate. thank you to the other public television stations throughout the state that i think are going to rebroadcast this debate. sometime last week i did my 800th campaign event in missouri. it included stops in all 100th -- i have been to all 114

counties, round tables, lots of input on our jobs plan. our voters are more engaged in the issues and i have never seen before. where are the private-sector jobs? why is the federal government spending much more money t has ever spent before? then there are concerns about the health care plan people believe will not work. i think they're right. it impacts the relationship between them and their doctor. the cap and trade steam -- a scheme which would almost double the utility bill. a bad tax policy. a stimulus plan that did not work. bigger issues about what kind of country we will live in. my mom and dad were dairy farmers. i am the first person in my family to ever graduate from college. i was raised in a country where i was told that with hard work indication anything was possible. i'll was also told that nothing was guaranteed but anything was possible. this is an election about whether we live in a country where the government is bigger

than the people or do we live in a country where the people are bigger than the government. i intend to fight for country where the people are bigger than the government. i intend to fight for a country where extreme policies of washington do not impact the future of our families. i intend to fight for the kind of country that i am during -- hearing missourians thought about every day. i share their values. i share their dreams for america. i think this campaign is about the issues. >> missouri secretary of state robin carnahan is the democratic candidates hoping to succeed kit bond in the u.s. senate. >> thank you to kansas city public television for hosting this into congressman blunt for being here. the values i learned growing up include artwork, common sense, and fixing things one day and are broken -- include hard work, common sense, and fixing things ons when they are broken.

have cut costs and red tape for small businesses. i have cut our office budget by 20%. we're here to talk about the u.s. senate race. i think there are three things that matter most in need be fixed. we have to fix our economy and create jobs. we need to hold washington accountable for how it spends our money. third, we need to fix the broken culture of washington that has the deck stacked toward special interest in against the rest of us. the congressman and i see things differently. he is for corporate bailouts and i am not. he is or wasteful, earmarks -- for wasteful, earmark spending and i'm not. he is forgiving favor to his lobbyist friends and i am not. he has voted to raise his own pay 12 times. i think congress ought to take a pay cut until the balance the budget. our priorities are different. i understand why the congressman does not want to talk about his

record and would rather talk about something else, because it is hard to explain how he has been there for 14 years. think about what has happened during that time. our economy got wrecked. wall street got bailed out. we got stuck with the bill. nobody in missouri thinks that is a promotion. folks are most concerned about jobs. you have voted repeatedly for tax hikes that sen jobs overseas. on behalf of those who cannot begin to ask questions tonight, i would ask you to pledge to never again vote for tax breaks to send jobs overseas. that the tax policies i've worked for build jobs and create -- >> the tax policies i've worked for build jobs and create jobs. i will not support tax increases, even though you supported tax increases for the first 16 months of the campaign. >> it is candidate question time now. we go to a reporter for an abc

affiliate. >> thank you. if you look at the campaign through the eyes of your opponent, ms. carnahan you would be a rubber-stamp for president obama. mr. blunt, you represent the worst of washington. at a time when missourians are concerned about jobs and the state of the economy, is it the best you can do? >> this should not be a campaign about campaigns. it should be about the issues. if you look at what i talked- about at 800 events across the state -- if you look at what i have talked about at 800 events across the state, it has been a campaign about the issues. there is a difference between where i am on the issues. they are issues that people care about. i intend to continue to work for things that answer those questions i mentioned earlier. how do we create private-sector jobs? private-sector jobs are the key to our economic future. we need government jobs, but

they do not pay the bill. they are the bill. we've seen a lack of focus on the things that create jobs. in the jobs round tables i have had, people start out by saying, there is just too much uncertainty. they quickly get to the fact that they are certain what the extremist agenda in washington -- with the extremist agenda in washington, all the cards are stacked against them. we talked about of utility bills with the cap and trade scheme did we talk about taking health care benefit are the control of the employee and the job creator for the first time ever. you do not have the options you used to have. we talked about raising taxes. people do not create jobs. those are things i have talked about over again -- over and over again. i have thought this is a year to be -- where it is impossible to be more specific than voters wanted to be on the issues. anyone who has asked me a question has gotten a clear answer. it has not been something silly.

of course cap and trade raises utility bills. i am not for raising taxes. i am not for doing things that stand in the way of private sector job creation. that is the biggest issue we're facing domestically today. i'm going to continue to work on things that believe that private-sector jobs are the answer. we need great certainty about the environment people are hoping to create jobs -- create certainty about the environment people are hoping to create jobs in. >> i think records matter. my record is not what congressman blunt characterize as. you would think i was the cause of the economic meltdown in this country. i have been in jefferson while he has been in washington for 14 years. he has been one of the top leaders for most of that time. to me, if you put somebody in charge of something for 14 years, they do not get the job done and you're worse off than when you started, you do not ask for a promotion. you for that person and get someone else.

congressman blunt, the budget has exploded during your tenure from $120 billion surplus to a $1.20 trillion deficit. in remarks have gotten out of control. we've seen corruption. -- earmarks have gotten out of control. we see corruption. we have to stop that by sending different people out there who have different priorities, who are not going to be cozy and comfortable with the way washington works. it will look out for missourians -- they will look out for missourians instead. that is what i will do. >> we put different people in charge in 2007, 2009. look where that got us. virtually every democrat in america, including you, started talking about how great it would be when everybody's taxes went up in january, 2011. it was not until mid-2008 and that anybody started talking about tax cuts that i had worked

hard for that they thought suddenly needed to be preserved. that was 18 months into people getting that message day after day. your utility bill is going to go up. your taxes are want to go up. we put new people in charge and were much worse off than we were before. this agenda is much too extreme for america. the american people will register that answer on election day. anybody you think this election is not about the issues is want to be very surprised -- anybody who thinks this election is not about the issues is going to be very surprised on election day. >> next, a political reporter. >> politicians have ramped up criticism of congressional earmarks in recent years. campaigns are divided on this issue. congressman blunt, you have defended their marks as an important part of the process. secretary carnahan, you have called for an outright ban. as senator, what would you suggest is the best way to bring

local -- bring federal dollars to missouri for the projects here? >> remarks have exploded under the congressman's watch. -- earmarks have exploded under the congressman's watch. it is a corrupt process. you have folks like congressman blunt using the process to reward campaign contributors and special interests. i think that is wrong. i think they need to be scrapped. they are reflection of the broken culture in washington. we need to ban them outright. we need to treat our tax money like our own. make sure there are priorities. make sure you have merit and competition in how to spend tax dollars and have full transparency and accountability on how it gets spent. we're very different in this way. you have been called out for doing things in appropriately with the remarks -- with earmarks. there was a bill for private

company in california. that executive went to prison. you rolled down their corporate jets. to $13,000 -- you took $30,000 in the earmarks. we're never going to get our economy back on track like this. we need to create jobs. my priorities are very different. i would get rid of earmarks. >> i think what we have heard from secretary carnahan has been the whole problem during her campaign. the newspaper said said "misleading," "fax and do not add up." i had nothing to do with that bill -- "facts do not add up." i had nothing to do with that bill. her mother voted for it. it passed 93-to-one in the

senate. it would have passed 408 to 50. my vote on that bill had nothing to do with whatever this project that she is talking about is and she knows it. in terms of competing for things that are right for missouri, let's look at the highway fund. it does not get any bigger or smaller based on how much we get out of it. what does happen is that, if you do not compete, you do not get the money. when i went to congress, we're getting 80 cents -- less than 80 cents back out of every dollar that we sent to washington, d.c. kit bond, one of the leaders in this effort, emanuel cleaver -- we have all collectively worked to compete for that money. we got a better formula than we used to get. we get more money than we used to get. we went in and try to make the case that there is a set aside amount of money for projects of

national significance. look at the map. aho look at where the projects all funneled to ward. -- look at where the maps show the project's final -- projects funnel toward. we competed effectively for projects of national significance. we have more bridges than any other state. are we not going to compete for that money? for the first time in the history of the gas tax fund -- the federal gas tax, missouri is going to get back the dollar isn't in and a couple of since beyond that. -- it sent in and a couple of cents beyond that. >> thank you very much, mr. blunt.

the debate rules allow the first candidate 60 seconds of rebuttal time. do you need that time? >> i would like to respond. it is fascinating to hear your defense of the earmark process, congressman. even after tom delay, your mentor, resigned in disgrace because of corruption, abuse, affiliation with jack abramoff and others, and you are trying to become a limited as the party, even your own party thought you were too tainted by the special deals and relationships by lobbyists. they did not even elected to be leader of the party. to come back out to missouri and pretended the reformer, i think that missourians -- pretended to be a bad and performer, i think that -- to be a performer, i think that missourians will not buy it. if you think the bridges to know where and put it all museums are

great use of our money, you ought to vote for congressman blunt -- and potato museums are great uses of our money, you ought to vote for congressman blunt. >> how do you think the recently-passed health care system will impact us now and in the future? which are the most problematic and the most-effective? >> it just spends too much money. it spends 250th billion dollars per year by the time it starts spending -- it spends $250 billion per year by the time it start spending money. we cannot afford it. it is a bad plan. you can look on line at the 12th things i think we could do that could make the system more transparent -- you can look online at the 12 things that i think we could do that make the system more transparent. for individuals who buy insurance on their own, they should be able to do that with

the same pre-tax dollars that the biggest company in america buys their insurance with. there are a lot of things you could do. they're just not in this bill. access to people who of pre- existing conditions -- there is a much better way to do that. it is one of the bills i sponsored that would expand the risk-pool concept where people could get into the risk-ball who did not have access to insurance -- risk-pool who did not have access to insurance. missourians know this will not work. 72% agreed that we would rather not be part of this. frankly, they asked the white house spokesman the next day, robert gibbs, what this means. 72% of missouri, hundreds of thousands -- they would rather not be part of your plan. what does this mean? robert gibbs says, this means nothing. they ask harry reid the next day at his press conference, the majority leader in the senate, what does it mean?

he says, they do not understand yet. nancy pelosi's comment the week that bill was passed, we will know what is in the bill after we pass it, was one of the most foolish legislative things ever said. as people find out what is in this, they know it will not work. there are appropriately concerned. they know there are better things to do. >> ms. carnahan. >> i am a breast cancer survivor myself. i have seen the good and bad of our system. i have talked to people all over the state to have seen their rates go up 100% or more. insurance company profits have gone up more than 400% during the same time. during that time, congressman blunt has been in congress. he tells us he wants to decent about health care. if he actually wanted to do something, why did he not do something when he had a chance? when he was in charge? i'm guessing it might be because you're so close to many of the health interests and special interests and their lobbyists.

if you have taken over $2.5 million from them. they do not want health care reform. they will have to spend more money on care instead of on profit. i think that is wrong. i think we need to get the money into the system where it is taking care patients again. congressman, i know they are against it. i know that is why you say you are for repealing health care. i disagree. i think it is ironic that you, as somebody who has received government health care for decades, would suggest that other people not have access to care for pre-existing conditions. i think that is wrong. i think people should have the same access that you have as a member of congress. so, i think if you want to repeal health care reform and let insurance companies go back to their worst abuses, you ought to repeal your own first and man up and do what you're asking others to do. >> secretary carnahan, you know there is no government-provided health care for federal employees. you go to the private system. you buy insurance like everybody

else. in the 10 years i was in congress in the majority, i sponsored legislation every year for medical liability reform. we sent it to every congress. we sent it to the senate seven times in 10 years. do not tell me i was not doing my job or i was not trying. when i passed the combat meth act, we took on the pharmaceutical industry and we got that past. do not tell me i was not doing my job. when we did associated health plans where people could join the biggest group they could find and be part of a health plan that way, we sent that six times in 10 years. never got voted on once in the senate because the trial lawyers have given $500,000 -- who have given you $500,000 did not want to go to the floor of the senate. they have given me nothing because i want medical liability reform and i have voted for it over and over again. >> we will now move to new

territory. >> secretary carnahan, the winner of this race will be senator for the next six years. how likely is it that the federal budget will be balanced at the end of those six years and what will you do to get there? >> it took a long time for the budget to get as out of whack as it is. it is a real problem that needs serious attention. my priorities for getting the budget in line in cutting the deficit are on my website. i have some common sense things of i think we need to start right off the bat. we need to get rid of earmarks. what it is not the biggest part of the budget deficit, it is reflective of a mentality that money can be spent at will with no accountability. we need to crack down on overspending. no big contracts that cost hundreds of billions of dollars. we need to reinstitute pay-as- you-go rules. we used to have those before congressman blunt to go for

leadership. by getting rid of spending caps -- there was a half a trillion dollar increase. you own some of the responsibility. later, we went from point to having a surplus in our budget to 01 $0.20 trillion deficit. nobody in washington -- 1.2 trillion dollar deficit. nobody in washington has credibility. we need to do common-sense things to make government work better and more efficiently. we can do those things in washington if we try. trying means getting rid of voice and spending and not continuing to adjust bicker and complain -- getting rid of wasteful spending and not continuing to bicker and complain. we suggested there had been a deficit reduction commission. all the republicans thought that was a bad idea. i think that is nonsense. we ought to know this is about the future of our country. we need to work together to get it resolved. >> mr. blunt? >> the congress i was in were

the first in decades to balance the budget. the leadership was part of helped do that. of course 9-eleven disrupted a lot of things. we had to respond to that -- of course, 9/11 these are but a lot of things. we had to respond to that. the only time we get the senate to agree to a budget that less look at where the real spending occurred, i led that fight. we cut mandatory spending programs by $40 billion. in a very public and very long fight, not a single person ever called and said, thanks for trying to cut the programs. we will put you on our list of legislators we do not because you're trying to get federal spending under control. i would start right away by not going forward with this health care plan we cannot afford. i would start by not spending the last $200 billion of the stimulus package that clearly did not work. nobody believes it worked. i would put a stop payment on

the $107 million check to robin carnahan's brother's business. there is some savings right there. the attack on the mandatory programs was to try to make the makes sense. we're both design people but for medicare and medicaid -- we will sign people up for medicare and medicaid who are legally in the country. make people do things that make sense. i have been for those things. people know i have been working for those things. i will continue to do that. with the exception of better -- and veterans benefits, there is no government program i have not tried to reform financially. i was voted -- i voted for lower budgets than president bush would submit to the congress, let alone president clinton or president obama. we do not have a budget. we do not have a single appropriations bill. the people are in control -- the people who are in control are

afraid to say what they're for. >> i find is an amazing case of washington, d.c. doublespeak. congressman blunt has been there for 14 years. we never once had a balanced budget. he says he was the leader in fighting for budget cuts. i do not think anybody listening thought that was effective. it has not gone out. to get this under control and take it seriously, we have to have folks who are ready to make tough decisions to stop wasteful , earmark spending. we have to put real caps on spending and put pay-as-you-go requirements back in place. not just talk about it, but actually get it done. >> he tackles everything from health care to crime and education as a reporter for the nbc action news. >> mr. blunt, ms. carnahan, i know seniors who are concerned about medicare part d. they understand that the gap in

coverage will be phased out by 2020. their concern is that their coverage in general will be phased out in that same time. how do you plan to protect their interests in washington? >> people on medicare should be concerned. this new health care bill is funded by cutting medicare by $500 billion over 10 years. cutting the program that every single person in america that has worked at a job or they got a paycheck has paid into since 1965. the idea that you start a new program by cutting this program at the very time this program is about to get into trouble -- everybody thinks medicare is in trouble by 2015, 2017 -- to cut medicare by $500 billion. if we could find savings in medicare, we should. we should use them to save medicare. people talk about defending senior programs. secretary carnahan made some

comment about privatizing social security. i am for defending social security and medicare. it is her side that has made the cuts in senior programs. somebody handed me in willow springs the other day from a mountain view clinic. the letter was, we're glad you have taken advantage of our foot clinic, but we're closing because medicare no longer pays for these services. whether it is medicare advantage that the service -- this administration wants to phase out or other cuts, we ought to be figuring out how to save the system. medicare part d -- what we did for the first time ever was, instead of having a government- run and operated program, we opted to organize the marketplace. in that marketplace, it cost 40% less. it was voluntary. 90% of seniors voluntarily went into that medicare market place -- marketplace.

the marketplace works. we had in that direction. the obama administration has taken us in another direction with fewer services and less support to programs like medicare. >> robin carnahan. >> congressman, there is no one here listening that things you are a protector of medicare and social security. your record, over and over again -- and not come to missouri and said that you do one thing -- and do not come to missouri and say one thing when you did something else. you said that it was a risky seem -- a scheme that should have taken place years ago. add that happened, millions in our state would have been devastated. -- had that happened, millions in our state would have been devastated. you have said this more than once. to come out to missouri and tell usha