manufacturing anza helping the middle-class. that is so important to the district i represent. i understand what some many of you are going through. i am a mom, i am a grandmother, i was a room on when my children i also know what it is like to sit at the kitchen table and struck allowed -- struggle to figure out which bill i could pay. i went back to school as a non- traditional student to get my degree. i carry that ball and it has made the person that i am. i'm a military mom and my interest and what families go through when their children are injured overseas. for the veterans in my community. i know what it is like to work

hard, play by the rules, only to feel like the rockets pulled out from underneath you. my husband and i are small business owners. i know what it is like to seem like you're taking one step forward and two steps back. to protect your employees, not to take a pay check yourself. i understand what some many of you are going for you -- going through, but we are americans. we can do this. this is not a republican or democratic problem, but an american problem. we want to know that we are moving forward, that your representative knows what you are going through. and will be tough and fight for you and look for the answers wherever they are. no one has cornered the market on good ideas. over the past two years i have fought hard for this district, just like when i secured that

the illinois national guard was able to put a facility at the community college. it will be my honor to continue to fight for you. we need to invest in our community and as michael. i am asking for your vote this november. but thank you so much. [applause] >> a packed house here. that concludes our debate tonight for the 11th congressional district. i do want to thank the candidates and their staff who worked very hard to get this in here tonight. and we're grateful to the illinois state university staff. of fellow moderator's, updated in our bob. our producers -- congratulations to both >> and up next on c- span, arizona democratic congressman harry mitchell faces republican challengers david

schweikert. after that, the virginia senate seat. and then a candidate forum. or campaign coverage on tomorrow's "washington journal." jamal simmons will talk about african-american voters on the midterm elections. after that, the national retail federation on the recent report on the value added tax. then fawned johnson of the national journal. "washington journal" each morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern. later in the morning from london, british prime minister david cameron well outlined steps -- cuts in his country's defense budget. that is like that to 30 p.m. eastern.

>> saturdays, landmark supreme court cases on scene -- c-span radio. >> they said that they would wear a black armband to express their views which they had with regard to the war in vietnam. >> tinker v. des moines independent community school district. hear the argument saturday at 6:00 p.m. eastern on c-span radio, in washington, d.c. on the radio, a nationwide on ex-im radio, and online at c-span.org. >> now debate for arizona's fifth congressional district. harry mitchell and his republican challenger david zweig card participated in the debate last week. they met at the civic county chambers. it was moderated by robert

leger. this race is rated a toss up. ♪ >> hello and welcome to this forum for the canada is for congressional district 5. it runs down through tempe. i am robert leger. i work for the "arizona republic." joining me are harry mitchell and david schweikert. to get us started gentleman, what is the most pressing issue facing the residents of district 5? >> we will come back.

>> jobs and economic growth. >> the economy and jobs. >> you also the same. what would you do about the economy? >> the premise of the question says that the government can fix the economy. the government can do nothing and let the market take care of itself or it can make it worse. the government is to get out of the way. most of these issues are caused by government to begin with. >> when joyce and i were out walking door-to-door it is heartbreaking. you can see where people have left, their hours have been cut back dramatically, and if we're when the save this community and have some options, we have to get some economic growth.

it has been a couple of years of economic stimulus money and billions of dollars being spent. it has been a failure. we're going the wrong direction. >> will you do to put us in the right direction? >> the complete opposite of what we did. you literally only get a few hundred the -- a few hundred jobs here in there. you start to divide that cost per job in it is crazy. could you imagine if we had used some dollars to incentivize small business with economic growth and change some of the regulatory environment that is taking so long to getting businesses to grow. even step up product-liability said that we can stop driving manufacturing out of this country.

>> i have been a big supporter of tax cuts, particularly for small businesses. . the driver of this economy. 80% of job growth comes from small businesses. 63% of the businesses in this district are small businesses. we need to incentivize small- business is with tax cuts. >> what would you cut? >> the capital gains tax and a couple of other taxes that i've proposed, one was the holiday for payroll tax. anything we can do to help small businesses grow the economy. that is important. do it congress did not do this

before adjourning. why did the not convince them to put tax cuts in this? >> when we go back, the number one item will be the tax cuts. >> job growth. you are ready talked about promoting jobs. mr. kuhns -- coons, what can be done out of congress to promote job growth? >> congressman mitchell is our demands and tax cuts. it's a ludicrous idea to take money and adding -- water out of one into the pool and adding it to the other and thinking that

the water will rise. job growth is the effect of a stronger economy. you want to focus on strengthening the economy which will then create jobs. if i let my gas tank, i don't take a needle and push it to half. i'm going to focus on the cause. in the case of jobs, it is a strong economy. that will create jobs. the best way to strengthen the economy is to keep taxes as low as possible and government spending and regulation as low as possible. >> congressman mitchell. >> one of the important thing to create jobs and get the economy going again is education. it's a long-term goal but that is really important. i taught in high school for 28 years. 35 years here in this district. i entered stand that you need to have students prepared for the 21st century and a knowledge- based economy, and this worldwide economy.

we have to put more emphasis on education. that is why i have been a strong supporter on education. that's what we need. america has always been the leader in being created. and we can do that through education. >> back to the jobs. are always -- jobs are always a lagging indicator. i appreciate what the congressman is saying about the special tax cut but the reality of it is, and unfair tax system has become perverse. think of the special carve out that the lobbyists have gone for this or that out -- or that group. it's time we pursue a flatter, simpler tax code. my wife and i run a small business. we're trying to create jobs. we do not know what your future is like -- and a good example is the health-care bill. we're being told that it is going to be devastating to our

business and the reaching out and hiring of employees across the community. how you start to create economic growth when you have this overhang of what tax policy will be, what will health care policy, what is your liability? it is time for business to know where we're going. did in this latter task that you're talking about. your opponents have hammered you on the flat tax. they say that you want a higher sales tax. >> no, they are attacking me on a consumption tax, something called the fairtax. you call the reporters and the congressman knows this, two years we discussed this, and we made it very clear -- you check up on the article -- i have never supported a consumption tax. [unintelligible] there different types of tax policy. one is getting rid of all the

taxes and paying at the register. the other side is a flat tax, saying, what we go to one or two levels, leave some things deductible like your health care or your mortgage deduction, but it would simplify. the fact the batter is that that constant here and expires in two years, but we're going to start growing our economy, we have to understand where we're going with the tax law. >> well with the effect of the attacks -- a flat tax pay christmas -- a flat tax be? >> people who are $35,000 or less literally get all the money back. from a tax burden standpoint, it

would not be different from what you are today. but not having to game the system all the time, and in other countries that have adopted a flat tax, they've seen their revenues go up dramatically because people are now playing by the rules. >> another mr. schweikert says that he was for the flat tax, but he has endorsed the paul ryan plan which is a flat tax and a fair test. paul ryan's plan is so radical, he could only get 13 republicans to sign on. when you say look at the flat tax " will eliminate deductions, or the fairtax which will put a sales tax on everything that we have, food, clothing, medicine, whatever, everything -- these are very radical notions. he said that he was ridgy he

favored paul ryan's plan which includes that. >> someone is finally stepping up and saying we have to be adults. whether you're republican or democrat, we know the entitlement system comes crashing down on us in a few years. list to some adults stepping up and think about how we're. fix this. i do not like it much of his social security plan. i think that it is a social contract that we have to protect. i cannot go along with many of the things he has in there. >> you have supported in you said he supported paul ryan. >> find that quote. i like that he is finally stepping up and say here is a different approach. . down what you have been, but things are coming together. we have to take on this debt monster or we're going to lose

our republic. we have to fix this, people. >> this idea of a flat tax would preserve the few deductions. >> my idea is that it will not preserve many of them. >> the flat tax itself does not call for any kind of deduction. it eliminates home mortgage deductions. >> mr. coons, let's give you a few minutes. >> if anyone is familiar with libertarianism, i do not support any taxes. [laughter] [applause] and i understand the follow-up is to that, how you afford? if we had more time, we going to those. when you take someone property from them without their

consent, it is called theft. you are stealing. if you take something from someone paycheck, you are still stealing. it does not matter what -- how you go about it, if you're taking something from someone else's consent, you're stealing. i would want people spending things on the things that they want to fund these. there is a lot of literature about how to support those things. >> why did get the feeling that the libertarians always have all the fun? i have more anger about your vote for the national health care reform than anything else that you have done. how do you defend that vote? >> i know that we cannot continue with the status quo. every year premiums are going up, the cost of medical care is going up, not only for individuals, but for the businesses. it is not sustainable.

that is why i voted. [applause] i think it is a born to keep in mind that there are portions that are now in effect. but the reason i voted for it, we could not sustain the status quo. >> the criticism is that it creates uncertainty and increases taxes on small business. >> 41, it was unsustainable the fault -- because of the cost. people were taken off of insurance because they used it or because they have a pre- existing condition. these are important concepts which were unsustainable. the status quo -- the prices were continuing to go up.

it is just gone into effect now. more will go into effect in 2014. the more people find out about it, that will see that there was good things in this bill. >> you have hammered mr. mitchell pretty hard on health care. some of the specifics in the bill, and in the prohibition on pre-existing conditions, stopping lifetime caps on usage, creating greater access -- do you support those things? >> know, and if you go back to my time of 14 years in the state legislature, i actually chair the health committee. and we worked on the idea, how you define risk pool, and it might be important have a government insurance. there are solutions to this that do not change the health care system. how many of you have got a recent health care premium and

seen dramatic increases coming at you? the wife and nine, a fact of the matter is that this health care bill with a $one trillion costs, we were told that it was the cost savings. now we know that just the opposite has happened. how many of you who run businesses or you're going to fill out 1099's for every $600? you're watching the what doctors call away from medicare because of how many of those are going to be shoved into that environment in that system. >> what would of been differently? >> i would of said, here is our problem. people who are uninsured. i have people who are pre- existing. i have severe asthma. i grew up part of my childhood in an oxygen tent. there is waste it ways to take

care of those populations without destroying the 81% of this district that actually likes their health care. risk pool, portability, the ability to buy across state lines, the individuals. the nice thing is that there are a number of democrats and republicans like me. i am understand the politics became overwhelming, but this bill is going to march is down to an economic flat line and a lot of very unhealthy, unhealthy health care systems. >> your position on health care bill. >> i did not support this bill. it does not recognize the problem, the reasons that are causing problems as far as health care being inexpensive -- expensive and inaccessible. if you look it the reasons for the cost of anything in the market, demand is going up or supply is going down. in the case of health care,

supply is artificially limited, usually by the federal government, that prevents access to drugs by not letting them released to the market when they are proven safe and other countries, by limiting the number of people who see doctors every year, by limiting people who have medical expertise to practice, if you know at a certain things but you are not allowed to -- those restrictions should be loosened up. the people know how to provide these services can do that. and we can get rid of that artificial supply limitation, the price would drop pretty quickly. >> and never the issue mentioned earlier. -- on number of things that you mentioned earlier. right now this bill would allow states to enter enter -- into context by cross state lines. the daddy of doctors -- this also provides loans and loan

forgiveness and encourages people to go into primary care and family practitioners. also a nurse practitioners as well as doctors assistance. there's a lot in the bill, a lot that i think -- it was mentioned that it would come up. i understand about the 1099's. i understand that i voted to repeal that but it passed the house. by the time we come back, it will be gone. >> to the good congressman's comments, you heard him talk about some of the things that he liked in the bill. his version of them all require a government program to do them. we're going the other direction of saying, if i want to buy insurance from a company that alike because they have a great price and it is what i want, my state should not be putting

together and doing it. i should be able to buy it. >> is right now the state's responsibility. the federal government does not do that. the states control that. they're saying, forget all this regulation. we will of the federal government. right now the states -- >> do you said it would be a bad thing? >> it may come to that part right now it is the state's responsibility and i am not taking the state's rights away from this. [unintelligible] >> it is the state legislature there regulates what health insurance must cover. but it does the federal governments to regulate or not regulate across state lines. if they want to buy health insurance in iowa, that is the interest of the federal government to determine, not the states. the federal government allows me

to do that directly without going to a different state, at that. bank, the state legislature produces a net producer -- produces a requirement of what health insurance must cover. it becomes onerous. >> we made a commitment that we were not going to be mean here. i want to be careful not to use sarcasm. but the fact of the matter is, i want to protect states' rights but i'm going to do a bill that mandates that they, the state, actually does the compact. does anyone follow the line of logic? the reality of it is, you're starting to see some cross-state purchasing because people are setting up some type of trust to do it. it is actually coming fairly healthy and competitive market. believe in government, top-down, management

and control, or that markets properly managed and partly incentivized will do well. you are on one side of the philosophy or the other. >> this bill does work with the market and it does encourage competitiveness. for the very first time, insurance companies will be competing against each other for all of our insurance. we do not do that now. we will do that set up under the exchanges. when i taught high school, about every two years there would be an insurance committee formed by the staff and the faculty. obviously the younger faculty members one thing and the older back of the members one another.

whatever the bill was, that was what they got. some of those people who wanted to things that they did not get will be able to do this in 2014. that is where we have competition for the first time among insurance companies, and that is where the market will really go to work. >> we could spend a full hour talking about that. the less go into the next question. social security -- headed toward insolvency, how will you address this? >> my personal philosophy, social security is a social contract. it is something our government has made with us. it is a deal. we are americans and we stepped up and stand up to our deals. there are some things you and i could do to start working around the edges of social security, at least to move its solvency date

hour. summer quirky ideas. people saying, would you allow us to buy your annuity? i gave you have the cash, can we remove you from the system? their creative economic such as that. but their way that it is coming even if you have a congress that steps up and says that we're moving the retirement age and even going to move compensation or deposits into the system, the fact of the matter is, we're heading toward the time were will be touch and go from revenues. my understanding is that this year and social security, if you get it checked, part of that money is being borrowed. it is the reality. >> what would you do the changing? do we need to raise the record retirement age? >> this is one produce step up and give both republicans and democrats stop using it as a knife in the back. it is the ultimate wedge issue.

bush tried to create a social security commission and the democrats stabbed him. obama tried and the republican staff them. yes, it may be stepping up the retirement age. it may be buying out folks chortling tap their annuity bought out. -- who are willing to have their annuities bought out. >> social security is not borrowing money to pay anyone says critic. social security -- i have social security and my wife has a security. i would not do anything to jeopardize security. social security has a huge trust fund. that is where the money's coming from. there is no borrowing from social security. it is just the opposite. the government barred from the social security trust fund. the fund that is their is in very good hands and is very

solvent. to say that social security is borrowing money to pay benefits, that is absolutely false. >> it is headed toward insolvency. how would you fix it? >> there are a couple of ways. one is of course raising the retirement age. some people say that we should raise the cap on the taxes. to in the income tax? >> that is a simple way to do it. they have to be on the table, and also the benefits. not shouldt what's be discussed is the idea of privatizing social security. i think that when you do that, you put it at risk. we saw what happened when people invested in 401(k)'s and the stock market fell down.

i am for strengthening social security and for protecting it. i think that we're not in the process right now or in the mode of borrowing money to pay for social security. that is not what we're doing. >> support privatizes as a security? >> no, i do not think that it would work. >> i think social security participation, but paying into enjoy informant, should be outlawed. -- but paying into it and drawing from it, should be outlawed. a lot of people here that have extra 12% on their paycheck will find ways to better ways to invested in the government is. and a lot of people would step in the matches. if you like the idea of social security, then keep paying into it.

that would be completely optional. what happens is there would be a lot of market options pop-up companies would provide options and financial assistance as -- showing you how to invest that money get better returns. there would be a lot of competition. you would have social security and others in the program, and it is your money, you made it, you can decide where it goes. the idea that mr. schweikert and mr. mitchell saying that it will fall apart and the other saying it is strong, it supports the idea that people should be of a put their money where they want. i cannot know if i trust this over here, i'm going to throw it over there. but it is your money in your choice. >> the congressmen and i are talking around each other. the federal government covers

our budget deficit, every dollar the federal government's stance today, they borrow 41 cents. there is not a penny in the social security fund. there is a lot of u.s. treasury bonds. over $2 trillion right now in the social security trust fund. it is all paid for. the money is there. it is not borrowed money. >> ok. we're not one to settle that here. you've been playing ice around the table today. did you expect different? >> no, i did not. not beends, you're terribly nice to each other. >> i keep waiting for a television commercial that,. -- to come up. >> what is the most outrageous thing your opponent has said about you? to get the most at rich's claim

so far is that i do not like puppy dogs. -- -- the most outrageous claims so far is that i do not quite put it does. thank heaven for channel 12 for doing their troops watched on saying, schweikert did not foreclose on a 12-year-old. schweikert never under the mortgage. buy houses and fix them up and keep them as rentals. we thought that we were the good guys. but this is as modern politics. it is because of what is going on in this environment for the congressman to keep his job, he will destroy me as a person and not talk about his votes, is sponsoring. and the reality of this is going

across the country, do not talk about your voting record, destroy the other candidate. in some ways, by the end of the election, they are disgusted with all of us. >> first of all, there's never been and had a mind about a 12- year-old. there was a press release and that was backed up by court documents. go back and check on the court documents about the 12-year-old. we get calls continually in my office about people losing their homes. >> this is an opportunity for the most averages thing he said about you. >> -- what is the most outrageous thing that they have said about you? >> he wants to eliminate education.

he wants to eliminate the department of education. working on the committees that i have been working on, transportation which is trying to put more money into education, so that it can be competitive, and the very idea of saying that we should eliminate the department of education, i think it is very offensive to me. >> he is not answering the question. >> let's move on. >> i appreciate the congressman been willing to sit here and say he is not offended by our ads. but the department of education, let's talk about the 21st century now. i am impassioned about getting the cash out of the bureaucrat'' hands and into our neighborhood school districts. the teachers tell me that they need the dollars not sitting in a bureaucratic draw in

washington, d.c., that they belong here in our neighborhood. and the constant movement toward another program. how many of you are just frustrated with the bureaucratic paperwork that comes down on top of your school? >> if the department of education was close, arizona schools would lose money. largest university in the country here. but more important, mr. schweikert talks about local government and local money. mr. schweikert spearheaded and sponsored opposition to proposition 100 that would put local tax dollars into the schools. he did not want the federal government to have any, and he sponsored proposition 100.

i do not know where he is coming from when he says he supports education 20 does not want any federal dollars and certainly doesn't want local dollars. >> i want the dollars here in my community. we do not need bureaucracy to decide. it is very simple. some people like to vote for bureaucracy because of build political power. i don't know why i cannot have that dollars right here in my community. >> i'm not talking about bureaucracy. i am talking about a local things on proper decision went under. -- proposition 100. people support education and in this day when we're competing globally, we have to have an educated population. we're at the bottom for funding

per pupil. and here you're saying, proposition 100 which would put money into the schools. >> proposition 100 went into the general fund. what is our basic rule about raising taxes lawyer in the middle of a severe recession? you wonder why this recession seems to be never-ending? you wonder why your job prospects feel like they're getting worse and worse? because of these economic policies. at some point, we need to start doing those things that grow the economy of we do those things that keep us in this mollet's forever -- malaise forever. >> you do not do that by cutting spending. >> let's move on. immigration -- we cannot have a forum without talking about immigration. both of you say that you want a

secure border. i assume that you do do. define for me but a secure border is. >> i do not have bet on a website. [laughter] i like the idea of anyone who wants to come to the united states to have a better worker opportunities and creating jobs not well for opportunities, anyone here -- in which to be allowed to come here. maybe we'd do a criminal background check on them to make sure that they're not criminals. but coming into the country should be very easy. if they're going to move here, the need to support themselves. they have to pay for -- they do not have options like welfare, unemployment, or things like that. they cannot come here and live off of the taxpayer. that is the biggest thing. that is one of the problems with illegal immigration.

to the degree that it does happen, we make it so what does not happen. i know it is extremely difficult -- my wife is from canada, and it took six years for us to get her green card to be a legal resident. that is a long time. most of them do not have the option of getting a job for starting a business. that option does not exist for 95% of the people around the world. there is no option for that. that is why people come across here illegally. there's no legal option. we need to make it so that people come here and support themselves, and it should be very simple for people to come here. >> a secure border. >> i support building the fence. mccain and kyl articulated in

the plan. >> does that mean that no one gets across court to margin there is always going to be someone. >> what degree is acceptable? >> i have no idea. you're going to build a fence, you're going to dramatically cut down on illegal immigration and people dying in the desert, and then hopefully we get toward a rational worker system and i and as does his job. -- ins does its job. >> right up there is about when thousands houses and phoenix because it is more illegal immigrants for here than any other state. the drop houses and the crime associated with that.

we're going to see a drop in crime and the number of drop houses. there's a perception that people feel that they are safer now than they were in the past. that is when we can say that the borders secure. you're never going have absolutely, with no one coming across. we found some russians here they were arrested and deported. i think we've got to make sure that we are fighting the crime. that is why i introduced the bill to stop drop houses in order to help ins and ice to have another tool so that they can pop -- stop the criminal element. that is when we will feel the importers are more secure. i voted every time -- one for defense and also to secure the borders, not only the fiscal

fence, but others. , but 40% of illegal immigrants are people that overstay their visas. >> that is why we have to have a comprehensive plan. we just about have one with president bush and senator mccain, but it fell apart, and al it has been demagogue. people that are willing to sit down and look at the issues and make that built work with a growing economy, look at the total issue and how we deal with the 40% of the people who came here legally and now have overstayed their visas. how should we? everyone understands that i am against any amnesty program. that i am opposed to. people to come here legally,

there is a consequence for coming here illegally. they need to pay a tax and learn english and have a job and have a background check. those are all important to get the kind of people we want to come to work. >> somehow blockbuster video confine me when i have kept my dvd a couple of days to long. again our entire federal government cannot find people who are overstaying their visas. there needs to be an investment in the technology of saying, the population coming here for a student visa or a vacation visa or humanitarian, and it is a systematic way to stay in the country with a great hope that there will be some sort of amnesty. it is the moment where you heard me say before, we need to dramatically stepped up the way ins does its business. >> deportations and up -- are at

an all-time high. >> how many of us have families who are here and you turn around five years later and found out that you lost -- they lost your paperwork? why can the state put those documents on-line and submit them securely? we need to make the system is much more efficient. >> some leaders are saying that the law is making it harder to bring group leaders together to offer solutions and the fifth district. once is that toro has increase because of the bill. what you agree with chris. >> i agree that we -- some of this tourism is in the future. it is not all right now.

it is when people plan their vacations. right after 1070 was passed in the was called for boycotts, i talked to the special business bureau. we have some of the premier resorts in this country in district 5. and i was told -- or asked by them, please do not even mention boycotts. the more that it is mentioned, the more time that someone who has any position talks about it, the worse it is for us. it has hurt their business. that is why -- not only the summer heat, but people not coming year as a result of the bad image because of 1070. >> you know the definition of a rogue state in this presidential

administration is arizona. come on, that was funny. [laughter] there are some fine resorts here that are down because of political pressure. but much of this is because arizona has become a whipping boy for our friends across the country. they have used this as a wedge issue on immigration across the country. it is totally unfair. we have a lot of great people who have lived here. after 1070, people were trying to step up and enforce what they thought was federal law, and yet we wake up one day being vilified as a state and as a people. i think it is totally unfair. >> it certainly is a possibility. i am not in the tourism industry and i do not know. that is something that makes a lot of sense, that it hurts the image of the state.

it has to do with the current economic situation. people do not have as much money and they're less likely to spend money on travel. that is the first thing about a lot of people would cut. it in the dream that which would grant citizenship to children who are brought here illegally, and they have to cut college or to military -- yes or no? >> yes, maybe, with some changes. as written now, no. >> i think that the dream that -- we've got 12 years. >> what changes would you want? >> we have to be careful that is not designed to incentivize a family to take a child across the arizona test -- desert. the way i understand it to be written down, we could be waking

up and collecting bodies in the desert because families think they can take advantage of it. i'm comfortable with parts of the military service. the other would redesign from top to bottom. >> anything you would want at your answer? >> to get on this path to citizenship, it is a student who has been here for a number of years. they have to come here at an early age. all kinds of conditions like that. i don't think it would encourage people to sneak across the border in order to get a kid in school. >> this move on to energy. i found it interesting. congressman mitchell emphasize solar energy, and mr. schweikert, you emphasize drilling offshore. >> my approach is everything.

i really do believe everything. it comes down to something very simple. at the time, the government has tried to pick winners and losers. remember alternative fuels here where everyone stop buying huge suvs? it almost bankrupted the state. how many of you are still in base -- still investing in corn- based ethanol? it just collapsed. every time government steps up and chooses a winner and loser, he comes crashing down upon us. to create a clean regulatory environment, off. tax system, and let the system choose the winners. >> i still do not understand how that applies to energy. >> right now we have a system where we are producing -- i like

certain types of incentives for alternatives. but if you say it is going to be seller, and tomorrow someone has another breakthrough, i guess what? the money is going to the one that is not economically going to be the great winner. >> can you explain your support for drilling in anwar was a margin look at the description -- the gulf. we drove our drilling out into the extreme deepwater. instead of areas where it was closer to shore where we could manage and control it. we could not put our environment risk. it is something we're one-half be rational. if we're using petroleum products, we would be better find them from a country that wants to hurt us? is irrational that we do that now. >> unfortunately we're still subsidizing oil and coal.

become energy independent, we're going to have to create an investment alternative energies. not just sour. i say seller because that is what arizona should be, the solar capital of the world. we have a great deal of resources right now, but also their private sources doing it with algae that is why i voted against capping trade. it was putting that heavy emphasis on coal and carbon sequestration which is a unproven science. but do not kid yourself, we're subsidizing coal and oil. if we're subsidizing anything, we should be doing alternative energy. the solar, wind, algae, certain and not the traditional products that we have now, which

is harming our environment and is not good for energy independence. we cannot become energy independent with oil. >> i agree up with a couple of points. the government should not be picking winners and losers and we should not be subsidizing cold. -- coal. the government picked corn-based ethanol and we saw what happened with that. i do not think anyone in congress has the knowledge to say here is the direction the country should go and where the technology should exist. that should be left to the market. if people knew what they were doing were able to invest or raise capital to research this things, then that would be of the figure out what is best. if i knew everything about solar energy and i can raise a billion

dollars to continued that push forward, i might confine this good method of finding solar energy at to% of what we're doing right now. but if i'm not allowed to do that because the government has taken my money, that's not happened -- in in four years of congress, would voter you most proud of? >> the 21st century gi bill, i was the lead sponsor of that in the house. it is a program for returning veterans in iraq and afghanistan, a better program that occurred right after world war ii. it provides books, please, tuition, and living for those veterans. it is good for reservists as well as national guardsmen, and they have 15 years to use it. and if they do not want to use it, they can pass it on to their

spouse for their child. right now there are 330,000 veterans taking advantage of this bill. a little over 1000 of them are arizona. the soldiers came back with leadership skills and with maturity. many of them never thought that they could go to college. nor did they ever think that they've wanted to. with the scholarships there, we're going to tap the resources that will create the next generation. that's what i'm most proud of. >> what bodie you wish you could have back to do over? -- what a vote do you wish you could have back to do over? >> that is a difficult one. -- 1500 votes this year. so far, 1500 votes. i am not sure which one i would withdraw. >> you're not going to make a commitment. >> what they did he get right

crush margin -- did he get right? >> highlight the veterans coming home and giving them a path to university education. as someone who believes maroon and gold, like the idea of them being here on my campus. as of those that believe we're going to suffer for for many years, the veterans bill was terrific. the health-care bill, i believe it is going to be -- we already know. we find out it is a trillion dollars. when it was voted on, we were saying that this would help small employers. now they're going to take huge numbers of their employees and make them part-timers so the king get them off the books. it is becoming a disaster. >> i cannot say that i know the

voting inside and out. our public. to the parts of the veteran bill as well. if the government is going to send people off in a dangerous situation, we should provide benefits for them when they come back. i would agree with you on the health care bill. i'm the lead plaintiff in the cold water lawsuits. >> suffered -- covered a lot of topics in this hour. very briefly in a minute, what is an issue that we have not talked about that gained a lot of attention that is important to you? >> the role of government to me is something that tends to get glossed over. we focus on specific things and what the government should do in terms of controlling this or controlling that. to me the role of government is that the most to protect our rights, make sure that you're

not killed, what effort is, protecting individual rights the only role the government should have. when it comes to a bunch of things that the government does, people do not think about whether this is a proper role for government. >> mr. schweikert. >> i really wish that there were more of an adult, it's recession instead of the political wedge game. entitlements and debt. as a people, we are buried in debt. we've accrued over $14 trillion and a lot of organizations say that we have $100 trillion of promises that we have to come through on on the next 75 years. if you love your children, and you you're burying the next couple of generations and something that is unsustainable. it is hard to talk about.

we're going to have to make tough decisions and it will not be good for their political careers. but we do not have a choice. if you love this republic, we have got to stop that thing away at the margins and say, we've got to save this republic. we soon will be [applause] >> the issue that i hear when talking to constituents, obviously jobs, the economy and immigration, but more than anything else, people are upset because they feel that congress is dysfunctional. they feel that congress is not solving our problems. i think congress is dysfunctional. the whole idea that we are not talking in a civil way that everything needs to be done along party lines and that it

will are bickering -- that people are bickering. why can we not just get together? i taught school for 28 years and i have had a number of students come up to me and ask me how like where i am. i tell them that it is not what i thought. knowing what you know now, would you teach you differently? i say no. because i might make senate's -- 66 cynics of everyone. >> we are at the end of our hour. i promise you could make a little spiel about what people should vote for you. this is the one time i will hold two to a time limit.

mr. mitchell. >> a with a you for your facility and having this form. i think this is a great way and a very important part of this discussion. we face a lot of challenges. i just got to talking about getting people together. tempe, ariz. has been my home. i will continue to do what i think is best in this district. i am never going to be speaker of the house. i will never be -- never be chairman of appropriations or ways and means. i have had my career. i want to serve this district and the state. i appreciate your support. >[applause] >> and when you all get some

credit, you have all been wonderful it polite and we have all done good, here. thank you to the republic for having us here. i ask for your vote because i believe i am a serious man ready to take on serious problems. the fact of the matter is, look what has happened to our jobs and our debt in our community. we are burying ourselves. this cannot be the direction. it is both republicans and democrats because none of them seem to on a calculator. the fact of the matter is, at some point, if you love this country and you of this republic, you cannot keep doing what we are doing. in the last two years, we have increased spending 21.4%. how many have got a 21.4% increase in salary? we have to deal with everything from iraq to that. thank you.

[applause] >> i also want to thank the city of tempe for allowing a libertarian in this. i always liked to have an opportunity to talk about new ideas, which is pretty much what i am running. i have noticed that people tend to act based on what they think, so what i try and do is change the way that people think. i tried to put new ideas out there so that people look at things in a different way. one of the other reasons is because i think that people should have more choices. the more people that we can have on the ballot with different ideas, i do not see a lot of different ideas. [applause]

>> thank you all for being here. thank you for coming. thank you for watching at home. remember to vote. [applause] >> before his death this year, west virginia senator robert byrd served in the u.s. senate for more than 50 years. coming up, the four candidates that hope to serve the remainder of his term will debate. that is next on c-span. every night leading up to november 2 elections, and we are doing political debates around the country. later, wisconsin's seventh district and illinois 11th district. now, a debate for west virginia senate seat. the state governor, john mention is running against the republican, john rase.

also contributing as jeff becker. west virginia university attendee. reed is a moderator. >> this is a news and public affairs presentation of west virginia public broadcasting. >> welcome to the 2010 senate candidates debate, sponsored by the associated press and west virginia university's school of journalism and the league of women voters of west virginia. anight's moderator is vojvodina read vojvodinadean reed. thank you for joining us. with the balance of power in

congress at stake, the u.s. senate race has become one of the races to watch. it is probably no exaggeration to say that the outcome of this election could have a significant impact on important issues facing all americans such as health care, the economy and the environment. the winner of the west virginia senate rate will serve the remaining two years of robert byrd's term. he held his senate seat for 51 years. these are some pretty big shoes to fill. with me on the candidates going for the sea. they are democratic gov. joe mansion, jeff tucker, and jesse johnson. directing questions to the candidates tonight are john

haines berg, mike meyer and melanie hoffman. the format of the debate is as follows. some questions will be directed to specific candidates and those individuals will have two minutes to respond. as time permits, there will be a total of two minutes for bottle per question which i will direct. the opening question is an exception for it is directed to all candidates and each person will have one minute to respond. if time allows, each candidate will be asked to give it a closing statement at the end of the program. my role as moderator is to make sure that the candidates did here to the agreed upon time limits and to keep the discussion moving. ask the first

question in the order in which the candidates are seated and we will reverse this order for closing statements through the candidates have not been given the questions in advance of tonight's debate. the first question, addressed by milli hoffman to all candidates. >> this has been a particularly negative campaign. if your elected to the u.s. senate, what positive changes will you make for the citizens of west virginia? >> six years ago, i became governor and i ask for the support of the citizens of west virginia because i knew that we could do better. we put our party aside and we started to look at all the problems. six years later, we are recognized as one of the best age in the nation -- best states in the nation. we need to bring this country

together. in washington, people are upset. but they are putting their party first. democrats and republicans are both wrong at this. the put their interests first and the country second. the success will be there, but you must put this country first as we did in west virginia. >> thank you, mr. becker? >> we need to get back to our founding principles. the declaration of independence was a promise. i think we need a renewed interest. studying history, we need to pay attention to the wisdom of our founders and the constitution

was a contract with the mad states. the senate was intended to represent the states. i think that we need to get back to the issue of federalism where the -- rather than having u.s. senators be a fourth and fifth representative for west virginia, and being responsive, i think the senators need to work with the state legislature and help the state legislature that their needs met in congress. >> i believe that the negativity that all the people across the nation are experiencing the results of a lack of fairness in our electronic -- our electoral process. we are faced with a great need

for media reform and taking the money out of that. we are faced with a need for public financing of our elections. so that we have a level playing field so that everyone has the same amount of money to give the points of view to the american public. i think that this is crucial for our national security. this has put us in a precarious situation for intervention. i believe that we need to focus on is the passage of the foreclosure act as a jumping off point of their needs to be public financing of elections.

i do not know how we cannot be- situation -- i do not know how we cannot be negative in this unemployment rate. this is unacceptable. a lot of people are angry. what i want to do in the united capitalism. my forte is creating jobs. when you have laws like obama- care that will destroy our health care system, when i see a situation like cats and trade which is so bad for west virginia, -- cap and trade, which is so bad for west virginia, when you look at the stimulus program that has sailed to america. ou look at the stimulus program that has sailed to america. these are programs we need to change in this country. spirit of

capitalism to make a positive change in status following the line -- instead of following the line that has brought failure. >> mr. raese, senator byrd was known for bringing federal jobs to west virginia. you oppose the government's current role in the economy and would seek to abolish earmarks as well as the minimum wage. what is your consensus? would you pursue public dollars for west virginia is selected? >> i think you bring up a good point, when you say let's of dollars earmarked. since 1994, there have been 90,000 earmarks. what it does is that it creates career politicians. i think that is one of the problems. you mentioned senator byrd, and his ability, bearing back a lot

of federal money. my question, is that the best answer for the problems of west virginia? i do not think so. i believe that when you teach a man to fish that he eats for a lifetime, but if you give it a man a fish he eats for a day. i want to bring back the spirit of capitalism. it requires the limitation of government powers and puts a limit on them to create the freedom of the individual. i think it is very important that we do create those freedoms. let's start looking at programs that make sense for america, that makes sense for west virginia. i would like to start cutting taxes. i would like to quit printing money. i think we need to have a regulatory reform bill that puts was written and america first again. >> -- puts west virginia and america first again. >> time for a bottle? >> on the earmarks,

infrastructure is it -- is where aneisenhower had gone. water, infrastructure as far as roads, broadband, those are things that the free enterprise system will not go there. they will only go with the market is. for all of us to have an opportunity, there has to be a partnership. the federal and state governor should -- governoment should be your partner. there has to be the partnership. i recall that they said that senator byrd brought the fbi. 10 years fast forward, it is one of the most progressive, one of the most efficient uses of the federal government they have ever had. it is done so well that the department of defense is

expanding. a committed work force. you have to look at what the returns on the money invested. it should be transparent. the thing i think people are upset about, no one knows where and who is making the earmarked. if it is transparent, we will build a road or water line or supply, we will give people the opportunity for quality of life. that is something that we should look into. >> it this country is an amalgam. it is a melting pot of face and religion and ethnic background. we are an amalgam when it comes to who we are, and off senator byrd stood up for the constitution, and the constitution dictates and spreads the the promise of this country that is not just capitalists. we have socialistic constructs that are intrinsic to our

identity, our success in the 20th-century is born of the fact that we have firemen, police officers, we have a military, a tremendous infrastructure. cash if we work shirley based on capitalism -- if we were sorely based on capitalism, we would not have that. we are a country of great promise. that is what we have to preserve against all of these different imbalances. >> ok. mr. becker, do you have a comment? >> my only concern is with earmarks, you have senate candidates using those as part of a way of a vote-getting. part of the 17th amendment, senators are chosen by the state legislature. imagine if we went back to that situation, and democrate dell advocated this,

repealing the 17th amendment, where the earmarks would not be used for votes. >> thank you. we need to move on to the next question. our next question comes from michael myer. >> governor joe manchin, what would you do as senator to help rein in the federal deficit which is now running at about $1.30 trillion? >> the same as i did as governor. coming into the state, i knew we were in trouble. i said we could do better, we started looking at the on managed dead and the underfunded liabilities and started bringing those under control -- we started looking at the on managed -- unmanaged debt and the underfunded liabilities as started bringing those under control. we as governors lived with the

balanced budget amendment. it is worked well for west virginia. the debt we are amassing right now is unconscionable, and it is something that your grandchildren and children will not be able to live with. the cato institute is saying that west virginia is the third best run state in the nation, fiscally responsible. we have been disciplined. we have to live within our means. people in west virginia every day have to make decisions. we should be held to the same and this government has to be held to the same. runaway spending will stop with a balanced budget amendment. >> would you like to respond? >> i would concur with a balanced budget amendment, but i would remind governor manchin that he is for stimulus. when you look at stimulus, we billion ofg at $780 o

suppose it progress by barack obama. if this is his idea of the way of save and cut spending, it is odd oto me. >> i would like to respond. the country is in freefall. i am not you're blaming president bush or president obama. we need to fix it. the bottom line is that we have all the states that are falling through except west virginia. system of this package was passed. we have been -- i have been criticized for not spending stimulus quick enough. we shored up because we knew it would come to an end. we did not support the second round of stimulus and did not. people have become so dependent, and it means everyone is waiting for someone to take care of it. in west virginia and we do not do that. we take care of ourselves. >> something neither of taxaddress is the issue of

cuts regarding the deficit. in particular, were due stand on the repeal of the bush administration's tax cut for families that make $250,000 or more? >> i am for the tax cut across the board, at and i am for making them permanent, not just extending them but making them permanent. the democrats left washington without the opportunity for people to vote on those extensions. i find that concerning because we are going into a lame duck session. what it really is is the largest tax increase in the history of united states. i find that concerning. so i want to make the bush tax cut permanent. i certainly have felt that way from the beginning, and when you looked add mr. manchin's record, he did not comment about the tax

cuts until prior to quit a month ago. my record is clear -- i supported the tax cuts all along. i would like to make them permanent. >> mr. manchin, where do you stand on repealing the tax for families to make $250,000 ore more? >> i do not think that during a recession you mess with any taxes. when i became governor, i have a record that speaks for itself because we have cut taxes and west virginia. $235 million worth of cuts. this is for all of our citizens and businesses. this is when i first came in, they said, we have to raise taxes. i said, i cannot ask the people to pay more until i know we are running this government efficiently. within one year, we were able to reduce taxes. we have a proven record and it

works. >> mr. johnson, would you like to respond? >> i am adamantly against the bush tax cut for the wealthy. i see different options, and that is why i am here. there are different options to look at in regards to wiggling downour debt -- whittling our debt. first is our bloated level of spending -- when $1 out of $3 goes to the department of defense, which is one of the two agencies that are not accountable. this is a serious issue. when we have no conventional enemies that we are dealing with. we are not at war and have not declared a war since the second world war. however, when we look at this, one of the ideas i would suggest that look and very closely is what has happened in the last 20 years with the derivative

market? we have gone from no derivative market to a debt that is nearly $700 trillion. nell, this is greater than the entire global gdp. -- now, this is greater than the entire global gdp. we could provide universal health care for all citizens in this nation, which in my interpretation of the constitution, is a right. >> mr. becker, could you respond? >> company yes. article i gives limited powers to the federal government. most of these departments are not authorized by the constitution. we need to look at these and face amount. i know people are employed by the government, but we need to phase out as many of these programs as we can carry the republicans campaigned on this in 1994 with the contract of

america. they did not do it they said they would do. now the republicans have the pledge for america. and it has -- well, it begins with on page 33 with a request, or a demand to have each piece of legislation began with a statement of constitutional authority. we already have that in congress. the house of representatives has their own role, ruulle 8, sectin "d." republicans have not fall this, and the democrats do not do it, either. >> thank you very much. we need to go on to the next question. >> mr. johnson, coal mining

is the most important industry in west virginia, but it is blamed for a lot of environmental problems. what is your opinion of the camp and trade legislation? >> i am in favor of the restriction of carbon emissions. we should not be dealing with carbon emissions on the level. what worries me about the cap and trade bill is the trade element. as i was describing with the the derivatives market that wrecked our economy, the trade element of that bill creates a whole new unregulated market for giant corporations, and that is a future drain to the american coffers and worldwide. coal mining is essential to west virginia, but i have prospered since 2004 a change, a way to stop mountaintop removal

immediately. and then transition away from burning coal. we are wasting a non renewable resources that west virginia university itself identified more than 5000 products more than 20 years ago that we can manufacture in that sense. i have proffered a new coal economy based on carbon. carbon manufacturing, to rebuild manufacturing in the state of west virginia and rebuild the middle class in america and started from the hills and hollows of west virginia. it this can be done now. -- if we have the political will and someone who would stand up on the floor of the united states senate and fight for it, and i will do that. >> john raese, you oppose cap and trade. >> yes, i do. it would be disastrous for this country and for west virginia. it is not about the environment.

it is about controlling manufacturing in this country. when you look at the essence of co2 release in this country, if you take all of the oceans in the world, they emit 125 billion -- of co2. it does not make any sense. when you look at the scenario in the state of west virginia and the myth that there is global warming, and the other myth than man causes global warming. i did not believe in that myth. i think what we need to find is more accessible coal. we need to start growing this country with our natural

resources. >> i respectfully disagree with president obama. that being said, coal has built this country, because it is been dependable, reliable, and affordable, and domestic. if you want this nation to be strong and secure, you have to quit buying the oil and products that other countries are using the money against as. if you want to stop the run from a nuclear armament, then quit buying a product -- if you want to stop iran from a nuclear armament. we needed to develop our renewable stirred we do everything we can in west virginia to be energy independent. that is how we will have a secure, free, and strong a secured card would you like to go, mr. johnson? >> we keep going back to this coal for energy model. more energy shines on this planet in one day than all of

mankind consumes in a year. geothermal has a greater potential for this state and then coal mining and all other sources combined. we have options and no political will in washington or the state of west virginia to explore them. question for you. what solutions to do you offer for the state and for the country for when the coal runs out. ? >> that is an interesting question. when the coa.l runs out, you are looking at almost 200 years. the myth is that the co2 emission is all about burning

coal. governor joe manchin stated that he does believe that global warming is caused by man. and that is where he and i have a different. >> what is your position on what the state should do when the coal runs out? >> the coal is in a transition period, which could be 30 or 50 years. until there is a reliable fuel of the future, coal is our base load. the rest of the world is using more coal than ever. china. we cannot compete with the higher price of energy into we are able to transition. you did not leave your base field, and there is nothing to replace it with. there will be a few of the future, i am sure. i think it should be done right

here and west virginia. i know and west virginia we have the ability, the technology, and the research to help develop different ways of using coal and the fuels of the future. coal will be a mainstay for many years to come. >> we need to move on to the next question. >> despite the recent federal mine safety legislation, six months ago, 29 miners were killed in the upper big branch disaster. if you were elected, what more would you have congress do to protect coal miners against these kinds of disasters? >> as you know, the safety of our miners is the most paramount thing in my mind. i have sat through too many tragedies and i never want to do that again. the bottom line we speak of is

how do we have a safe workplace, not just minding but any workplace in america? what we have right now with the upper big branch investigation still going on -- the federal, state, the independent that they are doing. we have been coordinating our office, our legal staff has been preparing legislation with ventilation and how that should be controlled. what we have done and west virginia, we have challenged every miner to take control, to make sure you are in a safe workplace. if not, stop. make sure you are not in harm's way or any of your fellow workers. we empowered them to do that. we have a hot line. we cannot continue to have people in an unsafe situation and nothing is done to control it. until this investigation is completed, and we will have legislation on the state level. on the federal level, we will be prepared to coordinate that with the state. that is what we did after the

coal mine disaster. we did that with safety. we will do that after the upper big branch investigation is completed. >> mr. johnson, would you like to respond? >> i would like to respond to the 200 years. we are consuming coal at it accelerated rate. the future starts tomorrow, and that is the moment we walk out of here. governor manchin is talking about mine health and safety. what we need to look at is proper application of regulations. that is not being offered at the state or federal level, or would not have the situation with looking to the epa to enforce our laws. a former congressman wrote the

mine health and safety act. had it been followed, ventilating that mine, then this acts of god would never have happened. deep mining is safe as long as it is done properly. we have perfected that in west virginia and around the world for years. there are many possibilities with carbon to utilize safety ls areand many walss being shipped abroad. this is an opportunity for us, and the future starts tomorrow record >> would you like to address the issue of legislation for mine safety? >> i agree with governor manchin that we have to wait until all studies are in before

we can formulate a plan of attack, but i am concerned about the obama administration and his direction that he is going against coal. i am concerned right now for the safety of our miners. when you see washington, they do not have the best concern of all the things that we do in the mining business. i am in the coal mining business and the limestone mining business. i have never been asked by any bureaucrat ever about my input into safety, my input into what we can do. my family has been in the mining business for over 97 years. i'd like to see more of the private sector and fall. people that are experienced at what we do, instead of a lot of washington bureaucrats like we are seeing today. >> on to our next question. melanie hoffman, your next question is to mr. becker.

>> as a member of the constitution party, what is your position on the continued buildup of american troops in afghanistan? >> i think we need to first take a look at happened on september 11. there were three buildings that collapsed on september 11 -- world trade center seven was two blocks away from the twin towers. it was not rained on by any debris. at 5:00 p.m. on 9/11, james stanley, a reporter for the bbc, was standing at ground zero reported that building seven collapsed, when you can see it over their shoulder. then it did collapse.

needs to be investigated. the altar of building seven before 9/11 had taken out -- the older of the building 74 9/11 had taken up an insurance policy. he said he gave the order to pull it. it is a controlled demolition term. more evidence of foreknowledge. you can look at the bbc footage. how did the british know 20 minutes ahead of time that this would happen. this needs to be investigated. there is a preponderant of anomalies surrounding the events on 9/11. architects and engineers, over 1000 agreed and licensed architects and engineers have looked at the information, and there is so much information -- it does not make sense.

the only way the official story could have been is if the laws of physics changed. >> what is your position on the buildup of troops in afghanistan? >> i support the commanders decision for the buildup and the president followed that recommendation. with that, we must support our troops and must give them the needed support they have in order to complete their mission. you have to listen to your front field commanders. we can all sit here and surmise what could have or should have, but that is not the case. we have too many of our national guard. i see too many of them off. and i am there when they come back. sometimes they do not always return. that is the most devastating loss, when a person loses our luck -- their life for us.

i have to look at that family and thank them for the sacrifice they made. with that being said, we must support and make sure they are safe. we must make sure they have all the support they need and return home sifford >> i will like to ask mr. raese or mr. johnson if they would like to respond. >> when general mcchrystal he onlyed troops, got 70% of the troops. once again, president obama did not listen to his generals. i know when you have a war you have to listen to your general. when they request the troops, you have to do it 100%. win, yousophy is -- we in lose. >> mr. johnson, go ahead. >> i think what we need to keep

in mind is that this is all the result the pursuit of empire. being the policeman of the world. that is a dangerous folly. when at $1 of $3 of our money is going to a defense model, and we have a crumbling infrastructure and public transportation, that we need to consider that we perhaps should not be in these excursions notoad and that it's truly making us any safer, and in the process, we are giving up our civil liberties. when we consider that deaths of 9/11, and i'm not making light of that, but sheer fact, in our health care model, sloppy penmanship kills 7000 people per year per .

se, you said you wanted to repeal the health care legislation congress passed. what is it about this new law that you do not like? >> i do not like socialism, to tell you the truth. when you have a doctor-patient relationship, that is the way it is supposed to be and that is it the way we have the greatest health care system in the world, and that is the way it is right now. that will change, because from here on out, under obama-care, something that governor manchin company supported, you will have a patient-bureaucrat relationship, because the first person that patient has to go to is a bureaucrat. that is called a panel. i disagree with it. i disagree with the fact that it as 20 new taxes in it. i disagree with the fact that you have over 189 new federal

agencies that will go with it. you will see insurance companies and doctors come under the penmanship of the federal government. i disagree with all of that. i would like to repeal every part of it, because it is pure unadulterated socialism. it is the worst bill that has ever come out of the united states senate and house. right now when you look at the gross domestic product in this country with obama-care, you are looking at the fact that we are over 51% of the gdp in the country would be controlled by the federal government -- unacceptable. >> mr. manchin, i do want to address what john raese said, in that you came out in support of health care legislation in the spring, and now you have seemed to distance yourself from it. why the change? is there anything good in this legislation for west virginia? >>. i am not prepared to scrap the entire bill.

we have never passed a piece of perfect legislation. there is a lot of work to be done. i am not prepared to tell your child with a pre-existing condition, that he or she cannot be covered. i am not prepared to sit tell someone who had cancer, i am sorry, you cannot have insurance. i am not prepared to someone who might have a cap on their insurance, we cannot pay any more. there is a lot built into the bill that democrats and republicans agree with. that is a pretty good start. that is why we do things in west virginia. we need to fix what we have. you do not go up there with basically starting and repealing everything. it just does not work that way. there are people -- there are things that people depend on. there are things that people have been denied. there are people that cannot afford basic health care. working people are the ones left in the cold. if you're old enough, you have

medicare. medicaid.poor enough, if you are incarcerated, you are covered. if you are getting up and going to work every day, you are the most vulnerable. that has to change occurred there are three parts that i will change. 1099 has to be repealed. that is onerous to small businesses. also, the firewall, to where it is not protecting abortion. that is what states need to respond to. >> our health care problems in this country are largely the result of skyrocketing health- insurance costs and those are the result as the mccaren- ferguson act, public law 15,

this is amazing, it exempted the insurance companies from the sherman antitrust act. there was a bad supreme court ruling that ruled that insurance was not commerce. of course insurance is commerce. the corporations are a for- profit business. now there have been attempts to try to repeal the mccarren it- ferguson act. it failed in the senate. just this past february, the house passed a repeal bill, over 400 votes for repealing it. now there is a companion bill in the senate, and i will support that vigorously. it is ridiculous that any company or corporation should be exempted from antitrust. the ama did a study i read, in

the past 14 years, some 400 health insurers havae merged. they can fix prices. >> i am consistently stunned at this health care act is characterized as socialism. it is not socialism at all. it is capitalism on steroids. you have to pay to a private corporation and you are under penalty of law for not doing so. this is not socialism by any stretch of the imagination. i am disturbed by the fact that it was drawn behind closed doors and, with great giveaways to the prescription drug industry as well as the insurance industry. when you consider, in 2001,

pfizer was the most profitable company in the fortune 503 $7.80 billion that your -- $7.8 billion that year. this is extremely dangerous. as i mentioned before, 7,000 people die from sloppy penmanship and health care. >> thank you. we need to go to our next question. we go to john hingsbergen for his question. >> we invited the public to submit questions it for this debate. mr. jim kirk offer this question. in your campaign, you have embraced many issues that are associated with the republican party. your position to climate change legislation and the health care bill are a couple of examples.

can you identify any issues you support that would be cause for democrats to support you? >> social security. i am not for privatizing it social security, because there are so many west virginians that support it -- that depend on it. if that would have been privatized, with the downturn of the financial markets, 40% of the values would have been lost. we would have had 55% of our seniors thrown into poverty. minimum wage. i believe in the minimum wage. i fought for that and i believe in it. it is basically helping people have a balanced, or have a floor, if you will, so that there is some dignity and some reward. if you put that out to the market, it will fluctuate to wear, how low is low enough? you have medicare.

i believe in medicare. basically every time this country got in trouble, every time that we hit bottom, it is the democrats that helped the people struggling and trying to take care of their families. i believe strongly in that. i am more of a centrist in its fiscal matters. i think it is important we bring people together to make sure that we do not put burdens on people for things they cannot afford. when it is time to help people, we are always there. but i believe people should help themselves, too, if they are capable. the expansion of entitlements, i am not a big proponent of that. i believe in giving a helping hand. i've always done that. i cannot take care of the people who truly need it if i do not. >> this is a two-part question. this is part two. >> this is for mr. raese. in light of your opposition to

setting a minimum wage, how would your policies to prevent a further slide in middle-class income? >> my opposition to minimum-wage is that i did not -- i do not agree that. it is something nobody can live on. i think it is too low. i do not like government setting price or wage controls. i want a better wage for everybody. in order to get a better wage for everybody, we have in this country, we have to start lifting jobs and manufacturing where they should be carrot not like -- not like manchin and obama. they enjoy people working for $7.25. they like this. i do not. demand is a very important word. demand in this country, with the obama policies, is running a large unemployment line right now. minimum-wage is one of the worst things possible for unemployment. so i would like to raise level

of the playing field, because we need to set an environment that creates jobs in this country by cutting taxes and spending and putting american manufacturing first again. unless we do that, we will always be mired in how low can we go. i am opposite of that. i am positive in at how high we can go. i've treated a lot of jobs in my lifetime. jobs i've created a lot of in my lifetime. >> i will ask another question. this election has become a referendum on president obama and his administration. my question is, why has president obama become a focal point in this election in west virginia and should he be? mr. manchin, you can go for. >> i hate to inform my opponent, will notobama's name

be on the ballot for u.s. senate in west virginia. well be me. my record has been very clear. and working in to bring everyone together, democrats republic -- democrats, republicans, mountain, constitutional party. when this much money has been spent to try to scare people that i will do things i have never done, that i will let somebody control leave or be a rubber-stamp for somebody, but i have never been. we would not have all of these people to endorse me. when you talk about the endorsements. after six years, we have all the working people, all the labor. we have the u.s. chamber of commerce. we have the coal association, the national rifle association, a health care providers, the doctors and nurses and hospitals. these people do not endorse me because we agree on every issue. they are too diverse.

they endorsed me because we put a plan in place. they endorsed the process of bringing people together. i am not rubber-stamp for anybody. never have been in my life. in the of senator byrd, he did not care -- in the spirit of senator byrd, he did not care what political party. >> it certainly sounds like a career politician fto me. i am not after special interests. the reason we are concerned about what president obama has done is that if you are in business today, i defy anybody to supply a business plan moving forward. it is virtually impossible. when you look at obama-care, when you look at the stimulus, taxation, the fact that we have not made any decision whatsoever on the bush tax cuts. when you look at cap and trade. when you look at governor manchin's support for carbon tax, you have to wonder about

obama and manchin and which direction they are going. there are choices in this election and they are very clear. when you look at business today, sector, we are the people that supply and motivate and bring this country together and make this country move. when you have people like obama and manchin, you have to be concerned about the future of this country because they are together on all five of those issues and have been. i think west virginia realizes where these people have been and where the country is going. i am a businessman. once again, i think i know a little bit about making jobs in this country. >> i think we have to let mr. manchin respond. >> there is no cap and trade in west virginia. the bill the referred to is house bill 103. caooalwould i have the miners, the state chamber of

commerce supporting a if anything we have done would harm their livelihood? if you have enough money and can spend that much money to scare people and make them believe that is absolutely false, that is what you get. the bottom line we have here to do with is president obama, or president bush. i am an american. i wanted president bush to be the best he could possibly be. i want my country to succeed. i will help you ever i can. i am going up there to help. i am bringing the successes we have had in west virginia to make this country better. >> we need to actually go to closing statements, to allow everyone to have their last say. we will be going in reverse order from our first question, which means that john raese, you have one minutre. >> i want to thank west virginia

public radio and west virginia for watching today. whoever is elected today will go into the lame duck session, a two-month session. we have the bush tax cuts. we need to make them permanent. we have a cap and trade which is a detriment to west virginia. most of all, we have a country that i think is going in the wrong direction. i would like an opportunity to go to the united states senate and put this country and the right direction, a country based on free enterprise, capitalism and what has made this country great for a long time and that is the freedom of america. i want to see the united states rise again. >> one minute, mr. johnson. >> considering the fact that i did not get to answer the last three, with outrageous statements made on both sides of that.

i ask the public as i am campaigning, are you sick enough yet t? it not now, when? everyone that i know that i come in contact with, every citizen has a sick feeling. they know there is something wrong the problem is -- the problem is that two-party system. you will find no reference to party in the constitution. can tivo that. the privatisation with workers comp, the i.t. of the state of west virginia, we have serious privatization going on. quote minimum wage? we need a living wage for the citizens. we have answers. there are possibilities that have no political will being exercised.

>> mr. becker, one minute. >> thank you, west virginia university, and the associated press for sponsoring this debate. the u.s. senate is regarded as the world's greatest delivered deliberative body. i wish i had more time. i like to direct the audience to utionparty.com. one of our great patriots said that people could be easily misled by men. those who did not remember history, are doomed to repeat it. if you've heard anything that you like tonight, please visit my website -- jeffbecker.us. i ask for your vote on election day.

thank you for your consideration. >> six years ago, when i asked to be governor, i asked to work with you to build a west virginia again. we brought all sides together. we did not put our political parties first. we put our state first. in washington, with the loss of senator byrd, there is a great many challenges that we have. i want to go there to take a common-sense approach that we brought to west virginia, i want to take it to washington. this can be fixed. this is a great country. and i will be independent. i have always been independent. i believe in west virginia and we have worked so well together. when you see what is happening in this country, i am as mad as you are, when they put their parties first, before they put this country, that has got to change. that is not how you fix things in west virginia. i believe in you and i am asking you to believe in me. >> i want to thank our candidates and our panelists for a lively and informative

discussion. i am sorry we were not able to get to everyone with every question. and i want to thank you, our audience, for watching and listening to tonight's debate. good night. ♪ [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> tomorrow night, the first illinois senate debate. mark kirk faces a democrat. this was president obama is senate seat and is held by roland burris. live coverage from chicago been -- begins at 8:00 eastern.

then benzocaine -- pennsylvania's candidates for governor. after that, a debate between florida's u.s. senate candidates. charlie crist, marco rubio, and kendrick meek. later, a debate between wisconsin's candidates for governor. what political campaign coverage each night on c-span. now what debate and wisconsin's seventh congressional district. republican sean duffy participated in the debate which happened in the -- over the weekend. sean duffy is a former district attorney in ashland county, and

his challenger currently serves in the state senate. live from the news channel 7 studios in wausau. watch as the candidates for congressional district, democratic senator julia lassa and republican challenger sean duffy face-off in a live debate. here is news channel 7 news director susan ramsett. >> good evening everyone. thank you so much for joining us. on behalf of wsaw-tv news channel 7, wsaw.com and gray television, we are proud to host tonight's live debate between candidates for wisconsin's seventh congressional district. the race for the seventh is one of the most significant that voters will decide this election day. whoever wins will take over a seat held by retiring congressman dave obey for 41 years. this is not just an important race, it's an important job. once in washington, he or she will represent more than 260,000 voters across 20 wisconsin counties. so, which one of these

candidates will best represent your views and beliefs? well, we are hoping in the next hour, this live debate will help you decide. so, without further ado, it is my pleasure to introduce our moderator for this evening, president and ceo of the wisconsin broadcasters association foundation, john laabs. >> thank you and good evening. this evening, we will all have the opportunity to participate in an historic event. the most widely broadcast political debate ever in wisconsin's seventh congressional district. it will be seen live on wsaw-tv and wsaw.comn wausau, and kbjr-tv in superior, and will be delayed broadcast tonight at 10:00p.m. on kdlh in duluth, and later this week on weau-tv oclair, wdio-tv superior as well as nationly on c-span. wisconsin's seventh strict has been represented for the past7 years by two wisconsin political giants.

melvinlaird and david obey. this evening's debate will engage the two leading candidates to succeed to the seventh district seat. the republican candidate, former ashland county district sean duffy and the democratic candidate, state senator julia lassa. the format for tonight's debate will allow for the candidates to make opening statements, to respond to questions from a panel of reporters and, finally, for each candidate to make a closing statement. the order of responses has been previously decided by a coin flip. our panelists this evening include judy clarke, news anchor weau-tv, mike lauber, news anchor wsaw wausau, and barbara reyelts, news director of kbjr-tv and kdlh-tv superior/duluth. we will now begin with 1.5 minute opening statements. senator lassa?

>> well, thank you vermuch for the opportunity to be here tonight. i just want to thank wsaw, weau and kdlh for the opportunity to speak to you tonight as well as you viewers who are watching this historic debate. i grew up not too far from here. on my parents' small farm. i went to school here. my husband and i are very proud to be raising our two young daughters here. the fact is, growing up on my parents' farm, i learned the value and the importan of hard work. making sure that we made every dollar stretch. and the importance of having a strong mide class. that is really why i am running for congress, because i believe that people here, we work hard, we play the rules. all we expect is to be treated fairly.

but that is not what we are seeing comg from washington. there, we have seen where special interests have been given special favors because they have deep pockets and loud voices. at needs to change. we need to make sure that we're putting middle class workers and their families at the top of the priorities list out in washington d.c.. that's why i really called on members of congress to take a 10% pay cut until we bring unemployment down and that members of congress do not receive a pay raise until we have a balanced budget. >> thank y. mr. duffy, your opening statement. >> thank you, i want to thank channel 7 for posting tonight's event. senator lassa, thank you for participating. i think it is great that we have a live debate in the seventh congressional district and i appreciate everyone to being interviewed -- everyone to me in.

-- tuning in did in my lassa master of law school, i knew i wanted to have a family. so, we moved back and at this point, my oldest child 11 and my youngest is 3 and victoria is 3 months old. the reason i got into the congressional race is when congress decided to pass the nearly trillion dollar stimulus bill. government borrowing and spending does not lead to growth, prosperity, wealth or jobs. at that comes from the private sector. i am runng for congress because i believe wisconsin and america can prosper again. i am one to go to washington to fight to kickstart our economy

and bring jobs back to wisconsin and make sure we put hard- working families back to work. thank you. >> the key, mr. duffy. our first question will bfrom judy clarke directed to mr. duffy. >> the latest figures from the congressional budget office at one point was three trillion dollars for 2010. not many people say bay like or favored changing taxes, but do you plan on raising the money to pay the deficit without raising taxes? we have a $13.3 million national debt. if you break it down, that is $43,000 for every man, woman and child in this count for live to put it a different way, when my daughter victoria was born six months ago, on goals and handed her a bill for $43,000. we have to get our national

budget under control. we have to balance our budget. the bottom line is that we need to put americans back to work. more people are going to work on a daily basis. they pay more taxes. the bottom line is that if we increase taxes, we will see more job losses. there is a direct correlation. the congressional budget office said that if we increase taxes on january 1, 2011, we will experience a 1.2 million person job loss. it does not mean that we will ing more money into the federal coffers. a stimulated economy where people are working is one where taxes will flow into federal coffers and we can look at balancing the budget. >> center lassa? >> thank you for the question. i think is important that we recognize what is happening at

the federal level in terms of the spending that is going on. for years, our middle class families have been squeezed. have had to focus on how to make our family's budget balance. we had to make some difficult choices and prioritize where we wanted to see our money spent between our needs and wants. i think that is what the federal government has to do as well. we need to make sure that we are balancing the budget. prioritizing what we need to be spending on in terms of how to get this enomy rolling again. also, we need to make sure that we are not spending money on just what our once our. we need to bring this budget back into balance. that is why i call on members of congress to not get a pay raise until we balance the budget,

that we close the tax loopholes that are encouraging our corporations to move good paying american jobs overseas that we do what we can at the federal level in order to make sure that taxpayers are getting the best bang for their buck. we are making the process transparent and accountable. >> our next question will be from mike lauber. >> your marks, which are spending products put into a bill without voting, it is a poor way to legislate. year marks can -- earmarks can benefit. congressman obey the disparate have the fee about your marks?

would ever seek one that would benefit the district? >> the fact is, i believe that we should in the process. i think that every tax dollar that is being spent on a project should stand on its own merit and that it should be weighed against other spending. i really think that we need to be able to get a handle on our federal budget and deficit. this is one of the ways to do that. it also makes sure that the process is mu more transparent for individuals as well as taxpayers because they know exact where money is being spent instead of earmarks being put in the process where it is not so much out in the open. i think that is what is important. i appreciate all the work that congressman toby has done over the years, but the fact is that the earmarks process is

something that we really need to change. we really need to crack down on federal spending. >> mr. duffy? >> my concern with earmarks is that it is slip in under the cover of darkness. i want to bring transparency to this process. what i would like to see happen is that any project that we think is worth federal dollars, let's bring it to the house floor and let everyone see it and have a great conversation on what american spending is appropriate. just because i am not in favor ofarmarks does not mean that i am not in favor of money being spent in the seventh district. not all government spending is bad. if it is good spending, i will advocate for those projects and make sure wisconsin projects get funded. if you look at a lot of our businesses, a lot of them get work for the federal government. i will advocate for our hard- working businesses in wisconsin because i think are gre.

i will use my bullhorn as a congressman to make sure that those contracts come our way. but, senator lassa says she is not in favor of earmarks. as a state senator, she voted on 7 $1 million worth of earmarks. if you do that in madison, you will probably do the same thing in washington. >> our next question is from barbara reyelts for mr. duffy. >> during the campaign, you both have said that you have reservations about the obama administration and the health care reform plan. you had basically three options when you get to washington. you can vote to repeal the whole thing or you can work to reform certain elements of the health care plan or you can let things go on as they are for a while and see what the results are. what would you do with the health care plan? >> that is a wonderful question

third i think the primary goal of health care has to be with reform that will reform. we are not fundamentally addressing the root cause of one prices are going up your over year. the bottom line is, we need tor reform. we need competition acrs state lines we need to make sure that citizens can pool their resources and have better buying power against insurance companies. i want to make sure there is transparency to make sure that if we are shopping for a service provided by a health-care plan, we can look up the cost of the. i think that we should take off a lifetime cap and someone who has a pre-existing condition, i think they should be able to buy insurance. i look at senator loss of's ,roposal -- lassa's proposal

and she voted for a bill that gave more power to bureaucrats and took power away from families. i do not want to see that ppen. that will cost the wisconsin taxpayer $15 billion and it will be paid for by way of a 12% payroll tax. that would make wisconsin far less competitive and it would ship far more jobs to other states. that is the wrong way, but reform is the right way. >> senator lassa? >> i remember when i was kicked off my parents' health insurance when i became too old. i had a cavity and had to go into the dentist to get it fixed. i did not have the money at that time to have pain medication and overcame when the doctor was drilling my cavity. it was one of the bus painful things i have ever had to go

through, but the fact is, we have peopl in this state and in this country who are making even more difficult health decisions than what i had to me in the deist's office. that is why, with this health insurance law, is making sure at children who have diabetes can get health insurance. making sure that if you become sick or become pregnant at your health insurance cannot kick you off your health insurance plan. senior citizens life-saving medication better able to be afforded. i am concerned about the piece about mandates. it mandates individuals and families to have health insurance. the fact is, we need to make sure that the health insurance coverage is affordable for tm, otherwise, i believe it is not fair. what my republican opponent is talking about is handing the keys back to health insurance executives.

>> our next question will be from judy clarke, directed to senator lassa. >> there are many proposals being offered calling for changes on how the dairy industry should get support from the government if at all. would you stand on a support program and the few are in favor, what alternative do you favor that would pvide dairy farmers with a fair and low wage, price, and allow them to make money and make dairy prices affordable at the conmer level? >> thank you, so much for that question. been someone who grew up on a dairy farm, i am familiar with so many of the challenges. one of the reasons why my dad had a factory for 38 years is because we needed the extra income that the job brought and the health insurance benefits. that is like so many families

acrosshis state. that is why i believe that when the new farm legislation comes to the table and needs to be drafted, we need to make sure that our small family farmers, dairy and others, are there to have a voice. we just saw where dairy farmers were getting low prices, prices that they were getting back in the 1970's. how can a small family farm get the fertilizer, the seed, buying new equipment that they need if they're getting prices that they were receiving back in the 1970's? it is just not realistic. what i believehat we need to be doing is crafting that legislation to allow farmers to

get ahead. but also do things like cracking down on the imports that are coming in. that will help our farmers as well. >> mr. duffy? >> as i traveled the district, i had a chance to deal with the farmers. iear different comments from all of them about what they think should happen to turn this very situation around. going from $9 to $21. it is a feast or famine scenario that they go through. we want to make sure that our families can make a living carried -- make a living. one in 10 of our workers work in agriculture. i think it is a great industry to export theseroducts. let's try to export our great dairy products to the rest of the world.

96% of all consumers live outside of america. i think that we can work on policies to help with that export. and we pass our forms from generation to generation, and when we pass that on, one of the impediments to doing that is the estate tax. when father passes away, they get slammed with a significant stake -- este taxes and that makes it more debacle. i support policies that will support forms. >> our next question will be from mike lauber. >> the next negotiation the u.s. negotiates will probably deal with austria and other countries. since new zealand exports 95% of their dairy production, and they would love to have access to the u.s. market, what step would you

take to make sure they would not drive down costs? >> i am not in favor of free or fair trade. i think this would drive down our dairy prices. i think we have to look at how many consumers are outside of america. what i want to see us do is see how we can export american products but not jobs. that is why i want to see us have an effective tax rate that allows us to compete on this global stage. american products are taxed in america and when they are exported, they are taxed again. the products from japan has the tax laws of their products and it comes into america tax-free. american products are at a

disadvantage because of our rules and how we tax their exports and imports. we have to make american products farore competitive on the global stage. >> senator lassa? >> one of the main issues we will have to deal with in the next congress has to deal with fair trade. when we are talking about products coming in from new zealand and other areas that impact our dairy farmers, i think that we have to be very cautious about that. we need to make sure that our dairy farmers, as well as other ameran businesses are able to compete on a fair and level playing field. that is not what is happening right now. we are not doing what we need to do to enforce agreements, making

sure that wages are being pd like they are supposed to be paid the way that the situation is right now, american businesses and our workers cannot compete because they are all at different levels. thdebt has been stacked against them. we need to make sure that we are enforcing what we have in place and enforcing that we need to. we need our american businesses to compete and out compete anyonen this world. the fact is, they cannot deal that when the deck is stacked against them. >> our next question is from barbara reyelts. >> the help of like superiois critical environmentally.

many parts of the state like northwestern wisconsin is very important to the economy. and invasive species is troubling to many. how would you work to protect the health of the great lakes? >> well, the great lakes is an important resource, not only for our state but for our country. it is the largest freshwater body that exists. we need to make sure that we protect that, not only for the heth of our state's ridents, but also for the environment and the workers who depend on the work that is related to the great lakes. that is why i believe that we need to make sure that we're doing what we can to be proactive in making sure that there is no pollution coming

into the great lakes which is deteriorating quality. there are so many communities across the state and in other states that draw water from the great lakes for drinking water. i believe we need to make sure that we preserve that national treasure that we have with the great lakes and that we worked as a community to be able to do that between the business community and also the environmental community. >> mr. duffy? >> this is a great asset and a great resource. i have the privilege of living in ashland. i get to see the beautiful lake every day. i know what it means for our wisconsin economy because i see what it does for tourism. it has people come to ashland and go up to cornucopia and use this great resource that we have. it is the largest freshwater

body. we need to protect it. if i am the next congressman, believe me, i understand the value and is important and i will go to washington to protect the body of water. >> a follow-up question? >> the reason that you both agree, but neither of you address how he would protect the great lakes. one of the great problems or invasive species. the problem is, the shipping industry is a multimillion- dollar industry if you start thinking of how to get rid of the ballast water, how would you handle that? you also have canada to deal with. how would you handle that? >> senator lassa, we have 30 seconds and your first.

>> there are a number of different ways we can handle invasive species one is that any type of living creature that would be transported in the ship's hull would be killed. we into do this through a variety of differt means, but we need to make sure that that is happening. we need to watch the asian car which is coming up from the rivers south of us from chicago. >> mr. duffy? >> we have to work with our shippers and other companies to make sure they have procedures and policies that will allow us to effectively handle invoices pcs. -- invasive species we need to make sure the we will address this problem effectively. >> our next question is from

judy clarke and directed to mr. duffy. >> unemployment is reaching 10%. job creation is a big issue in many campaigns. do you thinkha the federal government should play a rolin creating jobs, and if you believe that there is a roll, please be specificbout what that role should be. >> i just came out with my plan for stimulating the economy and getting job growth going. it is on my job site. the out-my website. -- my website. a constituent employs 131 people and invest $1 million and his business and if he does that, he would create 15 new jobs. but he says he is 62 and he will not make that investment because there is uncertainty coming from the government. what he means by that is that he is uncertain because he does not

know the cost of health care. we have bailouts in the stimulus. all that has caused him to walk down and not create jobs. the bottom line is that there are 15 families that doot have a good job and central wisconn. those decisions are bng made all over wisconsin and that is wrong. under senator losses leadership, she has expanded unemployment. we have seen businesses leave this state. on friday, we saw that health care is going to leave the district. that is what they have been doing in washington. what she has done in madison, she will also do in washington. >> senator lassa? >> thank you very much for the question.

i come from a family that has a small dairy farm. the fact is that my dad also worked at a factory for 38 years. during that time, there were times when work at the factory slowed down. i know very well what is happening with so many families that have lost a job and been laid-off or are concerned about whether they will have a job next week, next month, or next year. i really believe that we need to close the tax loopholes that are encouraging corporations moved good paying amican jobs overseas. we need to stop that. it is absolutely crazy for americans to work as hard as we do, we pay our taxes, and then turn around and give corporations their hard-earned

x money just to move jobs overseas. that ishat separates our republican opponent and i. he wants to keep those tax loopholes in place. we need to be rewarding businesses that invest in wisconsin and american workers first. talking about the job losses in the state and the country, the country has been brought to its knees. >> our next question, mr. lassa -- mr. lauber? >> we have seen jobs disappearing. we have paper mills in the seventh district and it is one of seven companies that are looking into whether chinese or indignation paper imports are unfairly priced and pushing u.s. companies out of the market.

what steps was to take to protect wisconsin paper companies? what i have already taken steps to do that. -- >> i have already taken steps to do that. i do believe that we are seen where china, indonesia and other countries are selling their par products in this country for less than what they can even manufacturer for. the saddest meeting tt i have ever had to attend was over in port edward where employees in the community were gathered. the reason why there plant closed is because of this unchartered -- on fair trade. we need to get tough on china. we need to make sure they are not selling their products here

for less than a 10 make it over there. we also need to look for a way for them to be priceless -- profitable. paper manufacturers take would waste and turn that into gasoline. this is a new promise for our paper industry treate. we really need to be making sure that we're focusing on that and being able to move forward because that is a real promise. >> mr. duffy? >> we see wisconsin jobs being outsourced, but they are not going to other countries, they are going to other states. they are not closing their doors and to shutting down, they are going to more competitive states. we cannot do business in wisconsinecause of the policies and the taxes that senatorial loss of voted for in

madison -- senator lassa voted for it in madison. thereas a 22.5%-$22.5 million tax last year. these policies killed jobs in wisconsin. >> the bottom line is that we have chinese paper being dumped here in america. we have policies in place to take care of that. the president has that ability and i think that he should pose it. i am not a big fan of tariffs, but when we have unfair trade practices, i think it is appropriate. to all of our loggers out there and those in the paper industry, i am a man that has made a living anticipated in their

sport that goes back 100 years for the >> our next question is from barbara while its and it goes to mr. duffy. >> with the federal no child left behind legislation, calls the -- schools have to compete for funding. teachers have to meet certain federal standards or fe having their schools punished financially and a lot of other federal regulation. how do you feel about this level of federal involvement in schools? >> i have to tell you that i believe that our children are our greater resort -- greatest resource. i want to make sure that they get the best education possible. 20 years ago, they we competing against ohio and iowa. now they're competing against china and vietnam i want to make

sure that there is as much local control as possible. it is not necessarily good for cincinnati or minnesota or minneapolis for milwaukee, but i want to have as much local control as possible. that was president bush's program. that was a lot of mandate without a lot of funding. what obama is doing right now is positive. let's have all of these different schools try to implement procedures the will educate their children most effectively and in the best way possible. wh they do that, there is competition. when you do it right and do it well, you get resources from the federal government. it is a great free market principles that will encourage competition among schools and i would support that. all the while, i want to make sure that we keep as much control as possible at our local level. >> senator lassa?

>> i want to go back to the last question. i cannot disagree with my republican opponent anymore. when alan announced that they were closing, over 400 people are born to lose their jobs. they are not going to minnesota 400 -- minnesota. 400 jobs are going to mexico. they are binding the hands of american businesses and american workers. millions of dollars were spent in revenue last year and chose to move to mexico so they could make more. they left their employees in the dust. rerding education, i am a mom that has to young girls who, rit now, the wanted the princesses, but the fact is that

when they grow up, i want to make sure that they and other kids like them all across the state have a good, sound, quality education so that they can grow up and be whatever they wanted the. -- they want to be. all the way up into higher education. they are our future work force. we are talking about our nation's future in economic development and job opportunities. that, to me, is important. >> our next question will be from judy clarke and will be directed to senar lassa. >> social security is the government's largest entitlement program. according to the social security administration, suspected long n costs cannot be sustained and by 2025, there will bewice as many older americans as there are today. what should be done with this program? >> social security is a very

important program that 1 million caesars -- 1 million seniors are relying on. my grandmother's all source of income was a security. there are many that rely on social security as a big portion of their income. that is what th have to live on every month. that is why i believe that it is vital that we protect social security for our current retirees, but also for our workers who are paying into social security as well as medicare. that is why i believe that we need to stop using the social security trust fund as a way for paying for other gernment programs. that has to stop. just by doing that, we can extend the life of social

security until 2040. take it seriously -- i do take it seriously. this is something that is really in contrast to my republican opponent who has supported paul ryan's budget in the past where it includes privatization of social security. >> mr. duffy? >> thank you. the bottom line is companies have left wisconsin to go to other states because other stat are more competitive because of the policies that senator lassa advocated for. when people are not working in wisconsin, the on not paying social security tax. that is part of the problem. we have to get this economy

rolling again. senator lassa like to say that i want to pvatize social security. the milwaukee journal sentinel called her a liar. i do not want to privatize social security. i want to shore it up. i want to make sure that our seniors did exactly what they bargaine for which is their benefits. those that are about to retire me to get their benefits. what are we want to get from social security in my generation? i am talking about means testing. at the top earners mayet a smaller return on their investment, maybe 3.1%. the rest of us would get the current rate of return which is 4.. that will go a long way into shoring up the system. as a senator, senator lassa

rated the state transportation trust fund, the family compensation fund and she has done it in madison and sh will do it in washington. >> our next question is for mike lauber directed to mr. duffy. >> wisconsin -- nationwide polls have shown that washington is out of touch with the average american. comment-how would to insure that you would address these issues? >> i have been running for 18 months. i know how large the district is. i have crisscrossed all over. i actually have a callus on my hands from shaking so many hands of wisconsin voters. i will make sure that i will live in the district. i love wisconsin. i am going to raise my kids in wisconsin.

i willravel at the last moment on monday and come home on thursday. when you go to church here and your kids go to school here, you were in touch with people here. i am going to do something different than what congressman toby did. i will make sure that i have at least one town hall meeting in every county every year. people need to see their congressman and have a conversation with their congressman. i want to make sure i have open office hours so that they can find me. i think accessibility is important, especially when you talk about legislation that was recently passed from health care to capt. trade, it is -- to cap and trade. i wanto have an open-door policy so that anyone who wants to have a conversation with me will have that opportuni. >> senator lassa? >> thank you. i look forward to addressing

your question in just a moment, but i do want to jump back and talk about social secury. the fact is, back in may, my republican opponent, when he was asked about social security and medicare, he said that paul ryan, who is a very conservative republican congressman, has some very good ideas dealing with social security and medicare. when he was on this morning, he changed his tunend said howe was opposed to the privatization of social security and medicare. in terms of talking about staying in touch with the second congressional district -- the seventh congressional district, it is a large and a first district with many wonderful it.ple inha

my oldest daughter goes to public school. my youngest daughter will be starting 4k next year. i thi this is one of the best ways to really keep in touch with constituents. the fact is, when i am out a grocery shopping, checking over the clearance rack and one of the local department stores, i have people come up to me and i think that is a way to stay connected. >> our next question is from barbara reyelts, directed to senator lassa. >> senator obey was talking about money being poured into wisconsin. i asked if he was for or against both of your campaigns yes the millions of dollars. how do you feel about outside

entities influencing this district, and if you are elected, how would you change that? >> thank you very much for that question. the fact is, a couple of weeks ago, my daughter was celebrating her sixth birthday. on the television appeared this u.s. chamber of commerce and that was an attack ad against me that listed my home telephone number for me to call. the fact is, i can understand if someone is or to attack and, but they should not be attacking my family. we have seen, in this race, where there have been nine outside groups that have been spending $1.2 million or more in attack ads against me to benefit my republican opponent. we need to know where that money is coming from. who is donating it?

we need disclosure in those ads so that voters know who is paying for it, and what did they to get by spending that kind of money to buy this congressional seat for their candid? i think it is important. i support the disclose that fact. it will make sure that donations for ads have to be disclosed to the federal elections commission. they would have to stand by their ad so that they have to take responsibility for what is being said. shareholders should be have a majority if they want to spend money. >> mr. duffy? >> to respond to senator lassa, in regard to social security, ever independent organization that has investigated this has called a misleading or alive. i do not want to privatize social security.

in regard to adds, i believe that families are off-limits. that someone would put a at up with senator lassa's home number on there, i think that is wrong. cannot imagine the u.s. chamber intentionally putting up at home number. do not have any control over what these party people put up. we see these as the same time the viewers d i am on the receiving side of this. the naonal democratic party, the first at the rand, the whole country was against me. senator lassa did not condemn that ad. a lot of people have received literature pieces in the mail .org.women'svote

another group is called emily's list. she should call on those organizationso find what they std for and who supports their organization. >> your final question is for mr. duffy. >> although they can be effective, most voters have claimed that they do not like negative ads. whether the message comes from your campaign for outside sources. without quoting your own strength for qualifications, say something nice about your opponent. >> that is a good question. i think that senator lassa is a very nice person and a wonderful mother. i disagree with the ads that she puts on television about me. my ads have been positive. we have a young child and a

construction what -- construction worker getting -- construction worker getting dumpedn water. she had one very good at, but after a week, she turned to negative ads. i think senator lassa is a good mom and i think she is a good person, we just disagree on a lot of political issues. she has a wonderful husband and i think she puts her family flush -- family first. >> senator lassa? >> thank you. this race, i have been in it for five months. i know how grueling it can be. both sean and i have young

families. we have two young girls. that is why i really do appreciate, as a mom, the dedication that he has shown to his family and his wife. i think that is very important because that can be a lot of stress on the campaign trail. just making sure that you're able to juggle your daily schedule and make sure you are spending enough time with your kids. for me, it is laundry in doing .ooking and stuff like that in terms of negative ads, when my opponent talks about my farm and and the values that i have, he was running too negative attack ads at that time. i had to respond. i think that is very important for voters to know.

i think that the debate is wonderful because it allows individuals to hear were the candidates stand on the different issues. i really do appreciate the opportunity to be talking to you. >> that includes the question and answer portion of our debate. thank you senator lassa, thank you senator duffy barred -- mr. duffy. you now have 1.5 minutes for closing statements. senator lassa? >> thank you again for hosting this debate. as i said, it is important for voters to know where the candidates stand on the issue. that is why, throughout this campaign, i talked about washington putting middle class workers and their families first. they have forgotten about us. we need to make sure that we are

back on the top of the prioriti list. that is not special interests giving special favors. we need to make sure that we're growing our economy again. we need to be able to come up with innovative ideas to help the state and our national economy be able to move forward. one of the big issues that we talked about during this debate is social security. i will jump back to cial security if i can. i am not the only one talking abou how my republican opponent shifts his position on social security, but it is also politico. having voters be able to hear from the candidates, where they stand on the issues, is so very important. if you are out there listening and you're looking for a candid that is -- a candidate, i ask

for your vote on november 2. mr. duffy, your closing statement. >> i want to thank channel 7 and senator loss of for encouring a debate. as we have gone to this conversation, i tnk there are distinct differences that you will see. she believes in bigger government, more spending, and larger deficits. she has a 0% rating for small buness organizations. which talks about business, she has a 0% rating. she has voted for small businesses 0% of the time. i think that we can kickstart our economy and bring jobs back wisconsin and put our hard- working families back to work. i want to go to washington and make sure that happens. i think we have a great american tradition and it is a tradion

for each generation leads to the next generation. i think that this is the first time that the great traditions in jeopardy. i will go to washington and i will fight to make sure my kids d your kids and grandkids have that great tradition alive and well what here in wisconsin and right here in america. i appreciate the debate. i appreciate you listening. have not. >> that concludes this debe between the seventh congressional district and a desperate we think the candidates, state senator julia lassa and mr. duffy and we think our panelists, oryle says -- barbara roberts, in judy clarke. this evening's debate has been brought to you by gray television and broadcast through wisconsin to insurehat every citizen in wisconsin has had an

opportunity to hear the two leading candidates. in the traditional spirit of service to their communities, the radio and television stations that have and will air this debate hope that bring the political event to you as a public svice will contribute positively to this campaign as they approach their next member of congress. now, on behalf of these candidates, mr. john duffy, senator jia lassa, thank you for listening and watching. good night. ♪ [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable sait