you want to make the perfect enemy out of the good. there are lots of things that i would like to see democrats do, and compare that to the average republican, a democrat tend to come out on the line that i come out on. look for the candidate that you want to do the best. if they are not doing what you like, you press the case. too often, what we saw was the tea party showing up expressing their case for more conservative policies, but you did not see democrats and liberals showing up and vociferously stating their case. the tea party is

>> people are losing their homes and jobs. there doesn't sem to be a big enough recovery. there's real anxiety there. especially here in the auto industry, so many people lost their jobs. we have one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation. there's a real high level of anxiety out there. i don't think he'll play a role in michigan. i don't think he plans to come to michigan. and the democratic candidates aren't anxious to have him here. he symbolizes obama care and things people are frustrated and upset about. >> why is michigan politician or the state important to the rest of the country? >> i think it is indicative of what happens in the rest of the country. if there's a total republican

sweep here in michigan, then i think that -- there's no doubt that there will be a switch in the majority in congress. at least this the house of representatives. what happens around the country if michigan can go red, there's a lot of states this can go red.

>> the race could not be tighter. welcome to you. tonight's debate is being sponsored. we have people watching on abc and facebook. charles thomas and tracy lester and andy shaw, long-time reporter for wls. we want tote to it tonight. we'll start with the opening statements. each candidate will have an opening statement of one minute each. they had a draw, alexi

giannoulias you go first. >> this is a tough campaign, but there's a lot at stake. people across the state have lost jobs and homes and are struggling just to make ends meet. tragically the decisions in washington d.c. over the last decade have made things worse. exploding budget deficits. shipping jobs overseas and a failure to address our environmental challenges and record job loss that is decimated the american middle class. congressman kirk over the last decade has been an architect of some of these decidings. why would we send the same people that created the mess back to washington d.c.? you deserve a senator that will tell you the truth who will fight for you every day. who will stand up to the special interests that rule washington d.c. you may not agree with me, you'll know where i stand. while i can't promise you i'll fix the problems overnight, i'll harder or work harder to make

sure you and your family have a shot at the american dream. >> i want to thank the league and channel 7 for having us here today. i ask for your vote to help grow this economy. our country used to number our trls. and america was a creditor nation. it is now one of the top debtors to many foreign interests. and how do we preserve the american dream when the average american today, when she or he is born will already owe the government $42,000. in this race, i am the complained that will vote to spend less, to borrow less, and to tax less to help save our economy. i am a fiscal conservative. a social moderate and a security hawk. a centrist that will bring leadership to illinois and the yite senate. >> gentlemen, thank you so much. we go to the questions. andy shaw, you're first. >> congressman kirk, this campaign has featured a abundance of attack ads and mud

slippinging and a notable lack of high level discourse on the important issues facing the illinois senate. to what extent should you be held accountable for the nettive -- negative tone of the campaign? >> i think this campaign has been about resume and background, but at heart when we vote on november 2nd, it'll be about economic philosophy. if you're happy with the direction of the government right now, of trillions in debt and accelerating the spending of the complaining and the grow of the government into our farble life, then moi popeant is your candidate. there's a growing voice in illinois that wants a check and balance and doesn't think we should raise taxs in springfield like my opponent would like or in washington d.c. we need a new business bill of rights. policys to help out the real number one employers.

small business, half of the jobs. 0e% of job losses. we know how congress hurt them. we don't know how the current helped them. >> you're right, this has been a brutal campaign but it is brutal for families. while we talked about our campaign and ideas about investing in early childhood education and turning the economy around and changing the way things are done in washington d.c., congressman kirk and karl rove with their millions of dollars have a different agenda. that's politician. to hear congressman kirk say he taxes less and borrows less and spends less is of tremendous irony. there's nobody in the race that taxed more and spent more and borrowed more and congressman, you could call yourself a fiscal conservative all you want. we went from record budget surpluss to deficits when you vetted for every one of the george bush budgets that have been a part of the overspending over taxing, overborrowing ethos in washington d.c. so to suddenly claim you're a physal ka conservative when your

record doesn't prove that i think is important to voters. if you're thrilled with the way washington d.c. works, if you're thrilled with politician as usual, with congressman kirk and karl rove, he's your man. if you want fresh leadership and new ideas and create private sector jobs, i would be honored-to-your vote. >> let me follow-up by confronting the elephant in the room, character issue. kirk, what do you tell voters about a man that embellishes a resume. mr. treasurer, what about someone whose banks makes loans to unsavory characters and student bright start virtually collapsed. >> i mistated a part of my military record. it is a painful process. i learned a big lesson from that. i apologize to the people of illinois. i then released all 21 years of my officer fitness reports. service in afghanistan, service in allied force, service in

northern watch. it made me a better congressman and advocate for vets and men and women who wear the uniform. to me the national security of the use has been a life work of mine. >> i'm very proud of the community bank that my father started 30 years ago, lett be clear, no one suggested that the bank has done anything illegal, illicit or improper, never. the difference between myself and congressman kirk, i told the truth. principles matter. values matter. as i mentioned earlier, i'll always tell the truth. people are sick and tired of politician as usual. he has to tell why he doesn't tell the truth. >> you get the next question. >> as mr. shaun mentioned, each campaign has been dogged from personal stories, mr. kirk with allegations of embellished resume and mr. giannoulias over

the failure of you're family's bank. looking pack to how you responded to those revelations coming out in the immediate yeah, do you feel you should have done anything differently? do you feel that any of your statements may have discourage voters? >> i think back when i ran for state treasurer, i probably should have done a better job, quite frankly explaining the way this community banks decide whether or not to approve a -- or deny a loan. look at the creditworthiness of the borrower. we need to be clear on the facts. i understand the polltics, nobody ever accused my father's business of doing anything illicit and improp. congressman kirk and karl rove have said things untrue and deeply offensive. i'm very proud of my father's business and proud of the fact he came to this country and ep hadded thousands of people achieve the american dream by starting their first home and hire another employee. it is easy to cherry pick a few of individuals out of

thousandses out of thousands and make a nasty political ad but any business owner will tell you that running a business is not a straight line. of course mistakes are made and inevitably and unfortunately there's people you wish you had not done business with. if we talk about who moves forward. who is going to fight for middle class families, there's a stark choice. kirk wants to fight for welt they families. i want to work for middle class families that have been destroyed by the recession. >> there's a big difference here. i took ownership and as name officers we're trained to take command to be responsible, accountable and -- and for that, i am and that's why i correct the record. the difference between me and my opponent, he made a number of mistakes, betting his bank's future on the risky real estate loans. brokered, hot money deposits and loans to well known convicted fill lons and felons.

even this mystery in florida where he went to visit him where he ran a prostitution ring. and when we saw the bank collapse -- and then when we saw loss of clean monies, that wasn't your fault either. the difference is account absent, i am in the perfect and i made mistake. but i corrected him. my opponent, nothing his fault. >> typical washington d.c. change the subject slight of hand. congressman said he's been accountable. i have seen the congressman fitness reports. they're impressive, but nowhere in the reports does it answer any of the questions that plagued him throughout this campaign. he keeps pointing to the fitness reports to provide answers to these questions. but i hooked at the fitness reports nowhere does it say that he served in iraq or does he say he was shot at by dutch peacekeepers, nowhere does it

say he was shot at all. on meet the press. >> the question was how you handled your own situation, if you felt you should have done differently. >> as i mentioned when i first ran for treasurer, i should have explained the reality of community banks. the senator said he held himself accountable, that's in the true. he -- on meet the press, gregory asked him if he was shot at and he never answered the question. >> the question is, why with this record, would you not tell the truth? why would you make all of this stuff up? congressman, a simple question, shot at or not. >> the ultimate irony a man that spends time criticizing my military record and yet he never served a day in military. >> when you see this, i put my life on the line for the united states. and many of michigan fellow vets have done. but your spire campaign is about a military record in which i served. i put it on the line. and you were back in the rear, with the gear. i understand, you made that

decision. and when we look at all of these bank loans to felons and mobsters, the people that were your business associates and on national tv you admitted, i didn't know the extent of the criminal activity of the people that i lent money to. from a federally licensed institution that then collapsed, and then you transferred a $390 million bill on to the back of the federal deposit insurance corporation. and i think you should have some apologizing to do too. >> no answer to the question. >> to congressman kirk. you have made fiscal responsibility a center piece of your campaign, citing your on position to the obama administration's economic stimulus because of its costs. what ditch -- what different courses or course of action would you have supported in 2009 to stimulate the economy and get

unemployed persons back to work? >> i think if we had a much smaller bill with a much larger amount of money for infrastructure, it could have gained bipartisan support but a surprising part of the stimulus spent money on social programs that had been rejected by the congress for many years, and the failure of the stimulus, remember, we were promised that unmoment would top out at 8% by the administration. in illinois it -- at 10%. we have seen a raft of wasteful spending stories about what the stimulus tried to spend money on and a real failure of its record. i think we could have built a bipartisan record on that bill but instead the last thing -- the lasting legacy of the stimulus will be a near trillion dollar debt leveled on the financial future of the kids. much of that money barrowed from creditors who gave it to uncle system expecting to be repaid, with interest by our kids.

facts and records matter. congressman kirk took us from record surpluss to deficits. more was added to the national debt in all of those years than all of the administrations in the history combined. obama added a 1 trillion deficit and kirk voted against the largest middle class tax cut in the country. the recovery act has not been a perfect bill. the question is what would have happened if we didn't have it? the accountants across the board will tell you that the recovery act helps them prevent depression. >> congressman kirk, can you be specific about what you would have supported in terms of getting the economy righted, what -- >> one of the tragedies of the stimulus was it imentld projects to shovel ready projects, which means the big payoff projects, for example in illinois boof

been -- would have been fully funding the o'hare modernization project or a lock and dam system for the mississippi river. >> you believe that should have been funded. >> if that was funded we would have a long-term payoff. instead, the house appropriations committee which largely wrote most of the legislation was told, spend nearly a trillion dollars and take nearly every discarded social spending program off the table. remember, every dollar by this congress, 40% is borough borrowed, most from aprod. one of the things di right after the stimulus was passed, i went to the bureau of the public debt and asked those that borrowed, how much do we have to borrow per week? between servicing old and new, we to borrow $160 billion a week to make sure that the treasury doesn't run out of money. that's issue responsible in my view and a growing chorus of people think that is also

completely unsustainable. >> a follow-up to giannoulias. >> will you go to washington to be a rubber stamp for the obama administration? >> no. of course not. i -- i have said repeatedly that aim going to vote my conscious. if that means i disagree with reed and thed a strace, i'll say so. i'm there to help the people of illinois not to be a typical washington d.c. party hat. here's my plan and my outline. i believe in a job creation tax cut for small business that is hire right now. i believe in a payroll tax holiday for hoe income who,ers. i believe we should have an extension of the tax red. there's trillion dollars sitting on the sidelines for the private sector within we need to grow the economy and invest in infrastructure and create jobs now. people are hurting in a very real way. unfortunately congress has forgotten how tough it is out there on main street.

there's unemployment rate. >> of all of the senate candidates in the country, you're probably closer to the you're one of the few candidates that is advertising his relationship with the president. but no matter what happens on election day, there are going to be fewer democrats in the senate, there are going to be fewer democrats in the house, so what -- what -- as a friend of the president, what mid course crecks would youed a voices him to take give me two specifics. >> i will give you two specifics. i think it is a point to point out that again we're dealing with some enormous challenge when the president took office. that being said, there was a omnibus spending bill that had a ton of pork. this is where we agree. i would have voted against it. i think the congressman, excuse me, i think obama should have vetoed it. >> time talking about going forward. >> we need to do everything we can to create a sense of urgency when it comes to a clean energy future. i think it is a priority

match-up from a moral perspective and global competitiveness and job creation standpoint. we need to encentivize the private sector. that mean making -- making it a better intiss environment. and increasing capital. the biggest concern i have is how tough it is to get a loan or a line of credit. there's a bill that would provide 30 billion dollars to community banks. 12 billion this tax breaks to -- to small businesses, something that -- by the way the congressman voted against. those are the measures, a bill that was deficit and neutral. tholes are the measures we need. we need to increase access to capital. 1.2 trillion is sitting in banks, conservative, thank you leverage that out, that's 18 trillion in lending. we need to grease the wheels on the private sector. >> sarah palin yesterday said the republican party is, quote, through if they don't follow the dictates of the tea party.

what does the tea batter get right and wrong? >> certainly we should spend less and borrow less and tax less, to help the economy out. we're facing a $900 billion tax increase. if you look at the congress the leaders and their plans and december 31st, i think that threatens a double dip recession. and i think if we look at the needs to cut spending, that's cutting spending across the board. even including the department of defense. for example i voted to not have a second fedge for the f-35 fighter. i strongly supported secretary gates plan to close down joint forces command. i think spending restraints and i think we may have a line item veto proposal from the president. i hear that is coming. any way to reduce spending will help the economy and the long-term future of the united states so we don't become such a deter nation in hock to every country if the world.

>> i try one more time. first, mr. giannoulias, on the president's basic approach what kind of mid course correction, correction -- you outlined -- you outlined his agenda, what kind of correction? >> learning from the mistakes if the past. i think there's a focus on health care. i'm supportive of that. and the economic sustainability of the country is important. that being said, we should have had a laser like focus on jobs. if people are not working, they can't pay their mortgages and we'll have a housing collapse. if people aren't working their kids can't go to college. losing a job is more than losing a paycheck. it affects the morale and communities and makes us less secure nation. >> we need to do everything we can again to create private senter jobs and stimulate the private sect per. >> what does tea party do wrong. >> -- i think the fiscal conservativeness is good.

when you talk about independence. i backed stim cell research and backed low income kids have health insurance. then the -- then voted to cut oil sud subsidies for oil exeets. i have had one of the most independent voting records. and when the detailly herald endorsed me, they said i was mr. independent. >> illinois is a fiscal basket case, prupt, billion in unpaid bills and 80 billion unfunded pension liability. the federal government found time and money to bail out big banks and wall street and giant insurance companies and the auto companies, to what extent is the federal government responsible if at all if bail out virtually prupt states like illinois. under what conditions would you support some sort of a bailout

so there's not a governmental armageddon if states like illinois. congressman kirk, take a crack at this first. >> the illinois economic situation no our state is, is terrible. and of course, my opponent is the state treasurer who has presided over much of this. unpaid bills by the state of illinois somewhere gone from one to five billion dollars according to the "chicago tribune" just this year. all they credit ratings have do you happen graded the state debt. recently the state of illinois even -- went hand in hand to creditors to ask to borrow money and had to pay a higher interest rate than mexico, a country's whose economy and currency collapsed in 1982. i don't think the federal g. should further bailout such fiscal irresponsibility by the state. i think we should roll back much of the spending decisions made by governor blagojevich, now and in -- an indicted and convicted felon and return fiscal

responsibility to the state of illinois without someone bailing out more irresponsible decisions, led by the current team that runs the state of illinois including my opponent. >> bailout by the feds? >> we got challenges here. i've beep screaming from the rooftops. i don't have a vote, i do have a voice. and unlike kirk, that doubled our debt. we found to cut discretionary spending. i cut my work force by 17% from my predecessor. to hear kirk rail against these he voted twice, said he voted twice for the bailouts of the biggest banks and the recovery act which a third of the recovery act provides a -- emergency stimulus and funding to state and municipalities that have been devastated. the state of illinois, it is not a problem the last three, five years, this is a 25-year problem

of funds sweeps and underfunding of pensions the truth of the matter, going forward the states provide aid to fam hiss. social service providers, school districts, the federal government needs to be responsible partner. my biggest problem with the recovery act was had -- with money was given to states municipalities, there was no requirement that there was some sort of budget constraint, accountability to make sure that only if you get this money, you only get this money if you make corrections to the way youeo >> you don't think that's a good idea. some suggested a virtual race to the top approach to bailouts, in your own words prove to me that you could cut and you could raise revenues and you could streamline and then we'll talk about some line of credit. does that make sense? do you rule out bailouts of any sort? >> i think what you said at first makes sense. when money was given to state municipalities, that was an opportunity time to use the government's leverage to make shower there was accountability and every year there weren't fund sweeps and a lack of paying

their yearly pension obligations and make sure that the states and munse pats live within their means. >> congressman kirk, are there conditions under which you support federal assistance if only in the form of a line of credit, if threw cut budgets and streamlined and raised revenues, would you then entertain the idea of a credit line that would enable them to keep good. think running without decimating services. >> i voted for a amendment this summer that cut a number of federal programs and provided assistance to the states. it was completely revenue neutral and it was a surprising set of decisions by a speaker pelosi to actually identify many stimulus programs that were a waste and can you tell funding and provide to keep programs. but, it is interesting my opponent said, he criticized me for voting for the tarp program and yet during the "chicago tribune" endorsement session after -- a painful to watch session, he admitted that he would have voted for it as well and yet he criticizes me for that vote.

also in that session, the tribune asked, name one spending program or bill that you could identify, he couldn't name one. and they said, once again, painful to watch which is part of the reason they endorsed me over my opponent for this office. >> cary lester. >> the dream act. legislation aimed at helping children who are in the united states illegally become citizens has become one of the flash points in the debate over illegal immigration. will you each detail if you support or oppose the measure and how you would vote if this came up in the senate? >> my position is cheer. i'm in favor of the dream act. i'm in favor of comprehensive immigration reform. i'm proud of the leadership that senator durbin our leader has shown. this goes to a broader issue. they want leaders and know where you stand on different positionness. they have kirk a few weeks ago, where he stands on the dream act. a bill been out there 10 years. he said he hasn't seen it yet. that's not leadership. we can't afford to tell the -- tear the families apart.

these are young men and women that a want a shot at the american dream. >> mr. kirk. >> i think first we restore the trust of the american people and the ability to administer our own border. right now that trust is completely broken. there are two candidates in this race, i'm the spanish speaking candidate, went to school in mexico, very much care about that country. president calderon is in a death struggle with car tells and says he doesn't have full control of four of the 32 states of mexico. we have already seen that phoenix has become one of the kidnap capitals of the western hemisphere. we don't want that kind of violence spreading across on to our side. remembering of course our status in illinois as being the state by highest number of per capita gang members in the state. i think if we restore that trust, if we chose down the poureder, and if woe make sure of the united states, we accomplish a fundamental mission

of understanding who is coming in the country, we reward legal ingrants who have played by the rules. then we open up the space for the rest of the debate. until you restore that trust, i don't think we could move forward and we should restore that trust. this this came up for a vote how would you vote? >> this is not the time to do this, we a bipartisan majority right now for border crowell. for making sure the united states can defend itself and make sure that illegal entry in the united states is not the possible, and that all of the other problems that could come with it are secured from the american people. and we have a set of leaders if washington right now that are out of touch with the american people, i will tell you this the rank and file members of both parties that i work with are really for a border control mesh cur. they're ready to establish trust. and once we do that, the rest of the debate can happen. and but until that time, we have a set of leaders, the speaker

and the majority leader who are not interested in border control. they want different agendas. i think we'll have new leaders soon and then we could step by step work on the problem by restoring that order -- that border control trust. >> are you saying that if this came up in the next few months, you would vote no? >> we need boarder -- border control first. that's the first piece of legislation. i will tell you there's a decisive bipartisan majority of democrats and republicans that want tote that done first. >> cary, this is what people are sick and tired of in washington d.c. you asked him a simple question. i asked him a sill pell question. he refused to state his position. i made my position clear. i'm for a responsible path. we need to secure our borders. that's the first thing we need to do. give him an anness. they don't necessarily agree. tell them where you stand. so they can make the decision on election day. i'll always tell you where i am oppositions. i don't put my finger in the

wind and do what he does. he says he votes for cap and trade and says he does it for security and then runs as a senate cand and says he wouldn't vote that way again. somebody monday afternoon wants to protect 6,000 teachers from losing their jobs which i was proud of and 1 hours later goes to washington d.c. on a tuesday afternoon and votes against them. that's not leadership, so let's hear where you stand on the dream act and whether or not you were shot at. these are simple questions. >> border control, first then hair on the rest. >> congressman kirk, earlier during a conference call, you described your campaigns voter integrityy program. saying it would focus on the south and west sides of chicago, rockford and metro east where your opponent might, quote, jigger the vote somewhat. the areas you mentioned in -- include large numbers of african-americans who in past elections have voted heavily

democratic. can you explain how this program or whether this program is or is not targeted at >> it is not. metro east is 84% not african-american. it is for a voter effort to have poll windchillers across america or across the state of illinois to make sure that we a free and fair election. it is probably no surprise that with the last two chief executives of the state of illinois convicted fill lons that we have a corruption problem in our state. in fact according to the justice department we're -- we're the sixth most corrupt state in america. we have become a punch line on -- on late night television. it is interesting that my opponent soon after this was announced said he would launch his own voter integrityry operation. i think he was vifed when i say, that's good. if we a republican and democratic poll watcher in presints across illinois we have

a shot at a free and fair election. in a state known as the most corrupt in america, that's a good thing. >> i think it is cheer. you got, kirk got caught on tape saying he wants to put voter areas, south and west side of chicago, parts of rockford, in areas of east st. louis and then he calls the same depoons and thugs that were responsible for florida in 2000. there's no voter integrity. i'll tell you why there's no question of fraud in the south and west of south side of chicago. when we should encourage people to vote, you're suss pressing the african-american vote. it is dangerous. >> and metro. >> where on the south and west side was there voter fraud? >> we had a conviction -- >> on the outand west? >> there's no secret there's corruption in the state of illinois. you of all people. >> on the south and west side?

>> there's corruption. >> there's your answer. >> amazing statement that someone would say there's no corruption. >> where is the voter fraud in the south and west? >> recent conviction. >> one of you is going to represent illinois in an all-white senate are you going to do anything extraordinary to represent african-americans once you get there given the fact there aren't going to be any others there? >> obviously, this is a historic seat. i spoke to president obama about this. as you know i worked hard to make sure he was the president of the yite. i talked to congressman bobby rush about what kind of senator we want for the african-american community. what kind of senator we want for the people of illinois. he told me not since welsch has there been a true fighter for poverty stricken fam families. >> will you take steps too make sure that voice is heard? >> absolutely. i want to work with president

obama and focus on promised neighborhoods and integrated approach. i want to make sure we fund cease-fire. i want to make sure we fund the promise act. i want to get guns off streets and provide young men and women in the inner city. >> kirk? >> we need an entrepreneurial renaissance in the african-american community so people are not give e--- dependent on a government program but have a business and a job and dignity and real power. one of the ideas i would bring to the senate and help to pass would be to take any vacant property, commercial property for two years, certify it by the maher and then subject to no federal tax for the next 10 years if an investor came in and built jobs and made the inner cities of america exciting to build a business again. i think we need to work with the communitys to dry up the supply of recruits for the gangs. like reverend john caples, the church, the smarty program which

helped to do this. finally we need an effort to take out the big gang leadership themselves. the gang kings that prey on kids especially in junior high school. >> okay. next question. >> a question that came from facebook. and i think we could put it on the screen. from a 2 kwlled -- 2-year-old clean graduate. this question is for you. i'm part of a generation of people that are becoming known as a lost generation. unemployment at the least, underemployment. this campaignlike so many across the country have heal been more about making the other guy look bad rather than telling us what you want to do to improve our situation. this is the important part. >> he's asking you to throw away the script and tell him something new. >> we need to focus on education. a decade ago, we were the number one country in the world with the percentage of young men and women that graduated with a

clean degree. we're now number st. -- 12. programs like race to the top are a smarter way of incentivizing school districts and states to work together. we need an integrated approach. i like the afterschool programs and mentorship and stronger education system. we need to increase the size of pell grants and community colleges. have a focus on early childhood education from zero to five. all models have shown every dollar you invest, there's a $17 return. until you return the economy around and create the next generation, and move toward a clean energy future, where we invest in biomass and retro fit and invest in infrastructure those won't take place. that's a fundamental difference in the race. >> i worry sometimes the next generation sometimes is called the ninja generation. no job, no income no assets. i think we should focus on education and especially we need a national dialogue, i'm not al

-- on 0 not allowing kids to drop out. i think as a 21st century economy, we need four years of high school and prepare kids, many more of them to join the ranks of a college educated americans. and also one of the key ideas i would like to bring in the senate is reigniting public and private partnerships for infrastructure development. in many ways we forgot our own economic history. we all know that the lincoln administration because it was the victor in the civil war and the emancipation proclamation. what was the third biggest thing it did? transdon'tental railway act which was the ultimate private-public pamp in getting infrastructure going. we have seen this ignite the economy where governor daniels has done a very good job in having economic growth in his state while illinois has fallen behind. it is that kind of a new thinking that we bring to the senate. >> turn the question around, i'll start with you on this mr. kirk.

>> challenge. thomas pigg and other members of the lost generation, what do they do that they're not doing? >> stay in school. like for example, i voted to lower the costs of student loans. and to increase the amounts for pell grants. i don't think that we should adopt legislation that the congress has moved forward to have a complete government take jofe of all student hoons. that eliminates option that is were very much needed for students. i think we got to look east as well as west that big export markets of the united states are in asia. so understanding these societies and making sure that we could expand key illinois exporters like the peoria community based on cat miller -- caterpillar, the quad cities. and so especially we passkey free-trade agreements like the one that is president obama has put forward to. with south korea, with panama.

with columbia, all opening new markets and now opportunities for americans. >> just telling a man to stay in school is not enough. we got to provide opposites. nobody expect government to solve all of their problems, but we need to fight for them. we need to increase pell grants and invest in job training programs. and investing in infrastructure. the next generation of jobs. this recession has changed the job market here in the united states, manufacturing has financial services has changed. the question is where are the next generation coming from. other countries get it. china is not a large producer of solar panels. they're investing in the industries of the future. our immigration system is important. we encourage the best and proitest to come here to get their ph.ds in science and engineering and kick them out. we need talent to stay here. we need to fund our colleges and make sure it is affordable. they get a chance to get a good

paying job in this country. >> if you were watching on facebook, i want you to tell us what you thought. >> gentlemen, in the did he say dessert of polar aved politician, there's both parties overspending for a years. i wonder if you go to d.c. facing these multi-trillion dollar short falls, where will you look? where do you look first and -- what is sack crow sanget, what wouldn't you touch? i think kirk you go first here. >> i think first of all, you have across the board spending reductions and no department is exempt. i talked about the cuts that i would make for example in the d. osm d. budget. also, cuts for example they told wasteful sugar program in which i had a powerful ally. i became the first member of the appropriations committee to not earmark and then fought the

prinls to nowhere. they won't be built. we need a line item veto. president clinton used 92 times to strike out federal spending. the supreme court eliminated it but the new version that i hope the president obama comes forward with will be approved by the congress. and paul simon's pal withanced budget was a right idea. a new grace commission with base closing powers to get the policies through on an up or down vote. it'll be up vote in the house and senate and i could keep going on. >> mr. treasurer, do you have a similar list? >> four things, we need to immediately do everything we could to promote economic growth. when people aren't working, and not paying taxes that's less revenue. >> that's not a budget cut. >> it is an important investment to make. the second thing we need to do is -- is enbe act pay goal legislation something the congressman voted against to end these deficit busting budgets that have been all too familiar in washington d.c.

then tax cuts let for the wealthiest persons expire. we don't have billions to give to them. we need a bipartisan spirit and take a long hard look at the very difficult decisions. because this country has not lived within its means for a long time. andy, we're going to take our medicine. people will to make tough decisions. >> corruption is of course the big story in illinois but it exists at the federal level. let me ask each of you, what single or transparency related law or statute or provision would you fight for when you get to d.c. in the hopes of giving people a better government? either one of you first? >> first of all, i helped get through legislation it cancel the pension for any member of congress convicted of a none. i think we should expand from the very limited four felonies that speaker pelosi allowed to

the full list of 21 felonies owen felonies that are the public integrity nhiens by the justice department. we need to end earmark system which is horribly corrupt, we talked about the bridge to nowhere, the rain forest in iowa, the missed texas museum. going forward, we need to have more transparency especially on the -- the federal campaign side. i broke with my party early and backed the mccain fine gold, the campaign finance reform legislation. now we need to go further and have candidates disclose within 24 hours on the internet and for ull after 0 these groups that are helping out, my opponent afteri supposedly in this race that we should have all of the dopers disclosed. >> this is the starkest choice. >> if you turn the tv on, you'll see karl rove and the expenditures that are fuel congressman kirk's commercials every day are having a dangerous

impact on the future of our democracy. i'm the -- i'm proud to be the first candidate not to take special interest. they called -- i'm going to help senator durbin with campaign finance laws. that was a dangerous step backward. kirk supports that. kirk taken over 10,000 dollars from the citizens united pack. this is an important vote on the close act which would put safe forwards in place, just so we know who spending the money. congressman kirk is against it. fundamental difference, until there's finance reform and fill better. as you turn your tv on, they only get worse. we can't let karl rove come in

town and steal the elections. >> the stop enforcement of don't ask don't tell, banning openly gay troops it from serving in the military. the boop administration wants congress to repeal the law. would you explain whether you support or oppose the court decision and -- and how you would vote on repeal if it came up in the senate? >> i'm for the immediate repeal of don't ask don't tell. i agree with our military readers. we have kicked out over the years, elements 14,000 men and women. 14,000 men and women willing to die for the country. we told them they're not good enough. meanwhile, we're letting fell hons and other individuals into the military when the only industrialized nations to do so. it is wrong. it goes against the spirit of what this country was founded on. a less secure nation at a time when we need the right personnel. we have no business tell people that want to die for the country that's unacceptable. i'm for immediate repeal of don't ask don't tell. >> i voted to continue the

current policy. i'm confused about what the administration's current policy is. at first gates said he wanted to wait until the joint chiefs of staff that run the military put forward their recommendations in then a federal judge struck do you know the policy. then the administration moved to block that federal judge and in striking down the policy. i'm totally confused as to where the administration is. i think we ought to had not to the men and women who run the u.s. military. it is one of the most complicated organizations on earth. operating on all 24 time zones. if you remove a policy, speaking from some military experience, you got to be able to then look in the eyes of a first sergeant or a chief and say, what is the new policy? and how are we going to run this ship or this platoon today? and without a replacement, you cause confusion in the ranks. >> a follow-up question to you both. where do you stand on gay marriages and civil unions? do you believe it is the federal

government's responsibility to take that up. should it be decided on a state by state basis. >> to answer your first question, i'm -- i'm in favor of full marriage equality. i pleeven that -- that this country is founded on fairness a-treating people equally. that's how my parents raised me. and i think we're going to look back in 20, 30 years and be embarrassed we didn't move sooner. i'm not saying we should stuff this down a church or rental's church. if my fiance and i can have certain rights and for to city hall and have certain visitation and pension rights, we should let that be available for everyone. we have bigger problems to focus on. let's remember what the country is about. again, we'll look back and be embarrassed we didn't act sooner. >> i oppose gay marriage and support civil unions. i don't ming we should have a federal takeover of all marriage law in the united states. i think the federal government is trying that over too much. >> charles thomas. >> i want to go back to negative advertising as allowed under the

united decision. i don't think that congressman kirk was able it fully address -- the issue. to -- do you believe that -- that these -- these entities such as american crossroads should disclose their, their donors, and -- who is behind them and -- would you urge those who have -- have assisted your campaign to reveal to illinois voters who is actually behind these negtiffer ads. >> i think all of the groups that are entering illinois to support my opponent, the big unions and all of their operations and the ones that are trying to support me should reveal their donors. and should be fully transparent. there's a real difference also in what i would call the paul harvey rest of the story on my opponent. he says he doesn't take money from federal lobbyist, e but he takes 10s of thousands of dollars from state lobbyist, many of whom have direct business before your office. and he says he doesn't take

money from corporate tax but he is so aligned with the unions, he wouldn't raise money from corporate tax but he takes it from union packs. it is the rest of the story constantly with my opponent that you look into. the losses, the bank loans, the federal lobbyist not taking but state lobbyist to take money from, no corporate packs and you take a ton of money from union packs. >> i have to give congressman credit. he's a great politician, he didn't come close to answering the question. there's a beautiful turnaround. rove is coming here, american crossroads with exorbitant sums of money. they determine from -- from the people of illinois who will be the leader in washington d.c. this were pst a citizen's united sproort decision that i'm against. i think it is a step backwards. there's a disclose act that would put basic rudimentary safeguards in place. say who funds it. don't let foreign corporations decide who your next senators are.

but again, we shouldn't be surprised that somewhere at the "wall street journal" called a pig at the trough, one of the most prolific fund razors in congress is afraid to take them on. he's bought and paid for by -- wall street firms which is why he voted for the bailouts of the biggest banks in the world proudly twice. then voted against sussspinding executive pay bone thuses six times. then votes against wall street reform. then he's owned by the health insurance companies and votes their way every time. this is typical washington d.c. politician. people are sick and tired of it. >> if elected and serving in the senate, and -- and a constitutional amendment, to -- to basically nullify the effects of citizen, the citizen's united decision should come up, how would you vote? would you vote for a constitutional amendment to -- >> basically nullify, citizen's united. >> charles are you asking me? >> yes. >> first of all, i would -- i would not. i think that the key issue is --

disclosure. that we need to -- to reforms that have every candidate or every group seeking to influence election disclose their donors. secondly, we should do it within 24 hours of -- on the interthet. in this debate, i havee alexi there you go again. you criticized me a second time for voting for the tarp legislation, when you told, on tape and on camera, the tribune that you would have voted for it as well. are you flip nopping on that now. >> we're getting off the subject, i would like for you to answer the question about constitutional amendment if it >> charles, i'll answer your question. >> i would be in favor of a constitutional amendment. this is a dangerous decision by the supreme court. we're seeing what is happening on the airwaves with rove. mark kirk helped rove destroy the economy and reeve is repaying it with millions of dollars. that flies in the face of what this democracy shall be about. durbin has worked hard on campaign finance reform. we need to pass the disclose act

and if it comes to a constitutional amendment, i would be in favor. >> whichever one wins the race would have a chance to vote for supreme court nominees, probably the most controversial nomination of the last generation is back in the headlines today, we reported that jenny thomas, the wife of justice clarence, and ahead of a tea party, liberty central called anita hill and asked her to consider apologizing to her husband justice thomas. did anita hill owe him an apology or the other way around? >> i think that's long ago and far away. my philosophy on judges that judges should make decisions based on the interpretation of the law not making new laws. the genius of our system is that laws should be made by elected representatives of the american people, who then stand to -- accountable in the very next election before their constituents of their congressional districts or their state. in the consideration of the

judges we just had with justice sote player, i felt she was too forward leaning on making through laws and was very open about that. i would have opposed her but with justice kagan, i applied hamilton's federalist standard that said it is not, not up to individual senators to make the appointment, it is up to them to see if the president's appointment is prope eighty not subject to family favor or some it is the best appointment they think this president at this time could make. sao, i announced i would favor just kagan's appointment. going forward, i would -- hope that we would have federal judges that were largely conservative, small c in nature. as possible to the elected representatives of the american people. and to make the laws and then the justices interpret them. >> i know i'm getting your sense of what was a signal moment, would you have voted for justice thomas?

>> i think he was confirmed he's a good supreme court justice but i will tell you, i am looking forward and i'm looking forward especially at assessing the -- the nomination that is president obama as our president would make. with one, i felt that he erred with the justice that was too forward leaning. with the other, i felt that justice kagan was careful and considered, not because she thought she would get the appointment because because she was careful and considered. and it was his joyce choice to make and i thought it was a good one. >> i like you to answer me question as well with a follow-up. is there any member of the supreme court that has been appointed by the american president on the court that you >> i agree that's past. going forward the next u.s. senator has important decisions to make especially when it comes to the supreme court. we have to understand that the constitution is a living document, document. i think we need folks practical

and fair-minded and understand their decisions have a very tangible impact on people's every day lives. the biggest example of that again is the citizen's united decision which is having a devastating impact on our elections and the future of the democracy. so if you don't think who your next supreme court justice is, these decisions have a real impact on our lives. >> i think every member of the majority was appointed by a republican president. i'll ask again. any supreme court justice appointed by a republican on the court today that you would have supported? >> i can't think of any. the activist leaning -- leaning court rye now is doing a hot of damage.

second term as allegheny county executive. this is an hour. >> a live from our studios in philadelphia, the pennsylvania gubernatorial debate. tonight's debate is brought to you by the league of women voters and wtbi -tv. the candidates are -- republican tom corbett and democrats dan oronato. the moderating tonight's debate is our action news anchormen jim gardner. >> good evening. let me tell you the roles the candidates have agreed to follow tonight. the format for this debate will feature questions to the candidates for me and our panelists. both candidates will have an opportunity to respond to each

question. the candidates's responses can be up to 90 seconds and there can be occasional need for rebuttal, limited to 30 seconds. finally, we have closing statements at the end of our broadcast. the responses will be timed. the order of questioning was determined by a coin toss and let us begin with mr. corbett. my first question to your, sir. most people in this panel would agree that more voters feel disaffected from their political leaders and perhaps from the political process and then at any time in recent memory. acknowledging your thoughts on this and your honesty, can you say that at no time have you been part of the problem and, as governor, what would you do to be very much a part of the solution? >> as governor, the first thing you have to do is become the

leader. the leader of the commonwealth of pennsylvania and you have to make difficult decisions. the next governor of pennsylvania will have to make decisions that are not necessarily in their political best interests, that are going to have tremendous political consequences but have to be in the best interests of the people, and particularly, the future of pennsylvania -- our children and grandchildren. i have been campaigning all over the commonwealth exactly on that point. i am not in this race for me personally. i am in this race for my children, my grandchildren that i do not have yet and their grandchildren, because i believe that kids of any need to be, a shining example, a standard that other states want to measure themselves by. we have fallen back further and further and the packard a lot of that has to do with what has been happening in the past and a lot of rancor out there. i do not believe i am part of that ring preparancor.

and my leadership as attorney general, my leadership as united states attorney has a demonstrated that what i'd do, the decisions i make, are in the best interests of pennsylvania. i promise the people that if elected governor, i will continue to operate in the best interests of pennsylvania. >> mr. onorato? >> thank you. there is no doubt that people are not worried and upset. they are medicare's . and washington. the unemployment rate in this country in the state -- i spent the last several years governing the second-largest county in pennsylvania. i am the elected executive. i have to make hundreds of decisions on how to move the region for. i was able to reform government and taken on members of my own reparty. i consolidated and saved $6 million per year, downsize the payroll, clean up old industrial

sites. we got control of our property taxes. we are the only county in pennsylvania that has not raise property taxes in seven years. one of the reasons why unemployment in my county is below the state and federal number. as governor, i am prepared to bring those talents to reform the harrisburg. we have the most expensive legislator and united states. i want to reduce debt by 20%. we have to create an environment for the private sector to bring jobs to pennsylvania. we need to make sure that our regulatory agencies are responding to our companies in a timely basis. if a company asks for a permit, it needs to happen in four years and not two years. training our people for the jobs of tomorrow. >> i want to use a bottle time not to ask the question again but to ask it in a way that i feel you have not addressed, and that is if you go through the streets of southeastern pennsylvania, and the report on

action news at 6:00 highlighted the problem, there is a lack of engagement among the voters. why are the voters of this part of the state seemingly not oblivious to, although many are, but not just in -- just not engaged in their state government to the extent that they care about what is going on here tonight? mr. corbett? >> that is a very difficult question because i am sure vern was trying to determine what was causing that lack of interest in the state white race. i believe that these races, if you look -- interest in the statewide race. if you go back a years ago, you had the former mayor of philadelphia running in that race. i think the people obviously knew governor rendell very well.

they are wondering who we are. it is up to convince them to vote for a. >> there are a lot of races going on. there is the senate race and a governor's race. there are a lot of crazy attack ads on tv. some people are probably disgusted and they are trying to weigh the information out there. i have been spending a lot of time in the southeast over the last two years and have been talking about what i want to do to reform harrisburg and how will affect south eastern pennsylvania. we have 60 more days. we will be campaigning, getting our message out. it is a field operation. >> thank you. not your question to mr. onorato. >> i want to shift things to social policy. two men were convicted last week in a hate crime cases. they beat a latino. gay teenagers are bullied,

leading some to commit suicide. my question is, what specific steps would you take to promote tolerance and increase diversity and with that extend to signing an amendment to the state's relations act that would outlaw discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity? >> mr. onorato? >> i havve already done it. as the executives of allegheny county, we pushed an anti- discrimination bill. we did not discriminate based on orientation or gender identity. as governor, i would sign it into law and push for that amendment because we should not discriminate against anybody, including people with sexual orientation or gender identity. we talk about anti-bullying legislation. no one should have to be

intimidated at school or at work. no one should lose their jobs or their apartment or their house because of their sexual orientation. as county executive, we have done at the local level and as governor, yes, i would sign the amendment to make sure that we do not discriminate against anybody in the commonwealth. >> mr. corbett? >> the question is an interesting one. it is one i have been dealing with myself. as you know, as the attorney general, we have already taken an active participation in going into the schools of pennsylvania into dealing with the issue of cyber bullying. it's one that has developed in the course of the last six years as the growth of the internet and computers in the house have taken over and become a forum where children can talk to each other on a regular basis. you add to that the electronics that are used now with cell phones and facebook pages and so forth, and it is one that

concerns me. and i think education, and the governor should participate in education. we need to include that more in the education system, in the schools, and teach about diversity, to teach more about tolerance with each other. we have within my office at the attorney general of civil rights division that participates along with other agencies in the human relations commission with the investigations that have been going on across the commonwealth of pennsylvania. so we have been very active in that respect. and i think it is very important we continue there. although, i will tell you that i do not know that an amendment is what would make enforcement any better. it is just we already have laws on the books. adding more laws on the books does not equal enforcement. we need to actually enforced. >> crime, violence, and guns and pennsylvania. last year, many deaths and the

commonwealth, 3000 wounded. what changes would you make to gun laws and pennsylvania, specifically the city of philadelphia? the right to legislate against the sale of handguns and philadelphia, separate from hunting anin outer stretches of the state? >> the supreme court of the united states ruled on whether cities can set up their own ordinances a separate from that which the second amendment allows for. that was clear in a recent case from chicago and from washington, d.c. it is clear you cannot. no, i would not be creating or passing a new gun laws. as you also know, here in in philadelphia at the request of the legislature, my office created a task force as partnered with the philadelphia district attorney's office with the police department. we are the agency that is going in and taking the guns off the

street. recently, we issued a report where we have a 1300 active investigations. we have a 500 active all rest, 300 convictions. we've taken nearly 1000 guns off the street. it is enforcement of existing laws. also, the courts have to help. when we get these individuals across pennsylvania it using firearms in the active commission of a crime and harming people, we see, in some court systems, a lack of full enforcement on that. i think philadelphia is a prime example. >> what about the florida gun laws were people can go on line from pennsylvania who had been rejected for licenses and pennsylvania, they can go get one online out of the state of florida? your critics say you have the power to change that with a penny. >> the critics are wrong the restrictions -- the restrictions in florida are greater, because

your demonstrate that you've taken a gun safety course with 12 hours. i do not remember the exact number. yet to provide a fingerprint. they do a background check. they see if you have any convictions and see is if you have ever been committed for mental defects -- 302's in pennsylvania. at that point in time, we of reciprocity with florida. i have inherited that reciprocity agreement from my prior attorney-general. >> mr. onorato? >> i totally disagree with it, and i think he is wrong. the supreme court made it very clear that we have an individual right to own guns. they also made it very clear that we have the right to have reasonable regulation. as governor, i support reasonable regulation, such as mandatory reporting of lost or stolen guns. if someone steals your gun, you should be required to report it.

if you want legislation that puts a child safety locks on guns, that is reasonable. if you look of the florida loophole, we could not disagree more. i believe the attorney general has the right to close that loophole tomorrow. if he thinks he does not, i would ask him to stand with me to lobby legislation to close that. there is no reason why the department of agriculture in florida is getting permits to carry concealed weapons and pennsylvania. i think it is wrong. i will close that loophole immediately as governor. >> i have one comment, because dan said this on saturday -- he said the department of agriculture. it is not just the department of agriculture. it is an agency that licenses many other activities in florida. florida made a decision to place that there. it is not like a bunch of farmers are going out and making that decision. >> first of all, i, from a part of a state that understands hunting. i respect the sportsmen and women. i will respect your right to

have a gun in your home to defend yourself. that is what the second amendment allows. i will make sure that we honor that. as regards the department of agriculture and licensing, does it make a difference? should florida's departments dictate to florida who carries a concealed weapon? i do not think so. >> i think it is probably time to talk about the economy. both of you have spent a lot of money and time attacking each other in the area of job creation, but i think this would be a good opportunity for you both to detailed specifically what you would do to create jobs. and i think most would agree that it would take more than lowering the state's business tax and to accomplish that. how many jobs will your administration's create in four years, and it would be very instructive for me anyway, if you would give me a number. and specifically, how will you

go about achieving that? and i ask the question first to mr. onorato. >> well, i cannot give you a number, because we do not know the future. i will tell you what we have done an elegant the county. we are in the worst recession since the great depression. by upon a distorted my record on television. we have lost jobs like every other county has done because of the bush administration. allegheny weathered the storm much better. our unemployment rate is well below the federal and state levels. as governor, we have to create a better business? anbar mccrary i will lower the corporate net income tax -- i will lower the corporate net income tax. i will look at the corporate loopholes occurred i will look at our regulatory agencies. we need to make sure there deate ep is more business friendly.

we need to train our workers for the jobs of the future. we need to use our community colleges and using our curriculum to match the needs of companies. we can focus on the jobs that are here today and going for. -- goigng forward. that is a potential of 80,000 new jobs. in the industry understands that we want them to hire pennsylvanians. >> mr. corbett? >> if we can predict how many jobs we are going to create, we should be in another business speaking who will win the world series, but we know it will be the phillies. the difficult part about this i,

but i do know what -- the potential we have in this state with the citizens it, we have a potential for hundreds of thousands of jobs in the future of pennsylvania. >> how about giving me a date? how long will it take for you to lower the series of business taxes to create a climate that is more conducive to creating jobs? >> just like giving you an exact number, it would be difficult at for me to give you a timeline. >> why is that difficult? >> because it would depend on what is on the table. i will push to lower the taxes so that we are competitive with states around us. the question is, are some of the corporate loopholes on the table? you are not elected dictator. you will probably have a republican senate. we do not know what the house will be. i will put my proposals afford to do the things we talked

about, and push hard and try to use the bully pulpit of the governor's office to get done what i want to do. the loopholes, you could lure them faster. >> could you give me a date? >> no. we would be fully and the reporters or the viewers if we tried to give you a date, but we need to cut the spending. pennsylvania has increased its budget from $22 billion to $28 billion in seven years. we cannot sustain that. we will cut spending. we will work with the legislation to cut the size of state government, to cut the costs of state government, to cut the spending of state government, to be accountable for the money people pay into harrisburg and to make sure that money is used the way it is supposed to. >> your question goes first mr.to mr. corbett. >> harris byrd has been in the news nationally for all the wrong reasons. it is close to declaring bankruptcy.

19 cities and towns across the state are in distress status. mayors are asking for more taxing authority, but so far the general assembly has shut them down. do you favor more taxing options for pennsylvania's me sodalities? which ones? if not, what you say to those cities that are broke? >> i think we need to take a look at what we call at 47. we have many cities, unfortunately, that have been in act 47 status for a long time. i think we have made some mistakes there. we have not been responsible with them as a state, as state agencies overseeing to make sure that they develop their plan that they can come out of that, the missable for a bankruptcy -- the municipal form of bankruptcy. the state has a responsibility to make sure they reduce that.

secondly, we need to work with those municipalities that are about to go into it, to try to help them. am i looking to taxes? nori, not right now. we need to look for efficiencies and how they are purchasing and how to manage their businesses are much better, minister local government than they have. keeping in mind, that one of the things we do for a state government from the legislature is set down unfunded mandates. maybe we should look at those mandates and say, since it is underfunded, you do not have to do that. we can take a thorough review of that entire area appeared >> being the county executive, iran of local government and i have watched those unfunded mandates come down from the state government and i will not do that as governor. i work with a lot of in his abilities. as governor, i will provide incentives towards distressed municipalities, cities, and

encourage them to think outside the box. incurs them to start thinking about consolidating -- encourage them to start thinking about consolidating departments. if cities want help, we need to say that they have way too much government. we have to look at how we provide services. it does not work anymore. we have to be more efficienct and consolidate services and we should incentivize it so that local in the fatalities have options. if they were different options for how they find their governments, i would give them different options they could pick from, but they have to give the deficiencies in return. it allows everyone it to decide their way to move forward. i'm glad we're able to be creative in allegheny. were the only county in western pennsylvania that held the line on the property taxes while every county is up over 30%.

we did that because we were efficient, we cut government, and we reform occurred >> are you saying that he would be in favor of more tax options, but it must be done on a county level? for example, the county sales tax? governor rendell supported that. >> i do not use the word more. what it is is are there other options out there? i would sit down with the county commission association and say, what is the best way to run these areas? before i do anything and before the taxpayers get involved, we will demand efficiencies. we will demand that they consolidate services and lower the cost. the way we were able to avoid raising the property tax for that long is because we consolidated the missable function -- the municipal function. they decide what they will mandate. >> do you want 30 seconds? >> that's fine. >> mr. onorato, can you give me

three things he will cut to make efficiencies in government and reduce the size of the state government? and u.s. said specifically that you want to reduce the size of a legislature, ask them to vote themselves of office. it sounds a lot like donk quixote. it seems almost impossible. >> i do understand why people are cynical when we talk about downsizing, because it is never happened. now is the most expensive legislation in the united states. it is how many people work for and how much we spend. they told me seven -- they told me the same thing seven years ago when i told them that i would consolidate 10 offices down to four. my own party. they said i would never do it. we did it within 18 months. i got it within my county council. got a 15-0 vote. voters, 72% approval decided to

streamline government three times are different. people know they are hurting, unemployment is high. they want to see harris burke reformed. they do not want to see your taxes. in the legislature, my benchmark is 20% savings of what we spend. the legislator is a sitting on $200 million dollars per that goes back to the general fund before we cut into any more programs. i want to look at the turnpike commission. are those agencies necessary? can we be more efficient? i will find ways to be more efficient just like it did for the last seven years running the second largest county. >> school funding? >> where do i stand? the one area that i will not cut is the school funding. and i will continue to fund the basic funding formula, make sure we expand early childhood, and that will pay for itself if we

get more kids into early childhood, all the studies show that they have a better chance of succeeding. if we get the before kindergarten, they succeed academically. i would much rather invest taxpayer dollars on the front end, pre-kindergarten, as opposed of paying it 10 times more to build jails. we that backwards right out in pennsylvania. >> c? mr. corbett? >> is this rebuttal? >> full response. >> i think we need to take a look at the budget and work with the agencies where there is waste and abuse going on. i always use my friend jack wagner, the auditor general of pennsylvania as an example of the ineligible payments being made at the department of welfare for medicaid. 14% of the people that were receiving benefits for an eligible. the secretary of welfare indicated it was 4% but that was $300 million.

i tend to believe that the auditor general understands that better. we will take a look at all those different areas. i indicated in my reform plan that we will work with the legislature, cut their spending money without having receipts for it. we will cut that, reduce the size of a fleet of pennsylvania. but also i want to institute zero based budgeting. have the agencies reported to us what they need to do and what they do not need to do. there is a lot of ways. i will give you an example of the office of the community of economic development -- 300 programs. that cannot be a number that is a proper in this day and age. >> school funding? >> it will take a look at the school funding. i am not committed to the cost -- i do think we need to invest in early childhood. i have been a longtime proponent of that.

i came to harrisburg along with the salvation army back and the mid-1990s tried to get money for the early childhood initiative in allegheny. in long term, this is what i call a generational change. if we invest in 3-year-olds, give them the foundation, when they get to school to grow and live and to educate themselves along with the school system, we will save ourselves money over a generation. >> you talk about school funding and that raises the notion of property taxes, and i think it is fair to say that for so many homeowners across the state of pennsylvania, the most onerous tax is the property tax. it goes up every two years. so many older people have long disconnected their personal tie to the school district and they feel it is inappropriate for them to have to find a school

district on a yearly basis. for some years, we have heard people running for public office say they will reduce property taxes. on surprisingly, it virtually never happens. i want to ask you why or what is wrong with pennsylvania house bill 1275 which would eliminate property taxes and has that funding responsibility into a sales tax cut with exemptions for such things as food, clothing, residential utilities, dr skills, and prescription drugs. what is wrong with 1275. i ask you first, mr. corbett. >> jim, you are right. the issue of property tax reform has been going on since the eisenhower administration. it is one that appears to give on fairness and to some individuals and benefits other individuals. it is one that has to be addressed.

referring to the bill you are speaking about. we have taken a look at that bill and we have concerns that the amount of revenue that would be raised by that bill is insufficient to meet the needs of the school districts as they exist right now today. to meet the needs of the counties as it exists right now today. we have talked with many different people during the course of this campaign in preparation for governing. i believe that we can take a look again at to see what revenues we would have to allow that kind of system to come into place. but it is of very difficult one with the exemptions to include. then it would also become, what is the size of the sales tax? i agree on the idea of the sales tax. it appears to be fair, because it reaches more people, but we need to have, if it will continue at the levels we are right now and the schools will continue at the levels we are right now. the problem is we have a

spending problem. we have a spending problem in the school systems, we are spending a lot of money. and the counties, we are spending a lot of money. we have to get the spending under control first. >> mr. onorato? >> this is an interesting point. i have been dealing with this for seven years. the only thing it does not tell you is the largest property tax increase came from my republican predecessor who chairs tom's campaign. i said i would bring sanity back to property taxes. assessments, because of one of the oldest counties in the state. i was going to make it clear to seniors that we would not allow property taxes to get out of control. we have not seen it increase in seven years. the only one three we take pride in that. we delivered on our campaign promise. you talk about funding of schools.

and our first debate, when my party criticized me for saying i would find education. in the second debate, now he says he agrees to be on early childhood. also, in the first debate, he talked about closing at $3 billion whole by putting a tax on employee. i am not sure why he is changing. for schools, if you want to get serious about property tax reform, that house bill needs a serious consideration. if he will remove property taxes for funding of schools, you need to have a replacement of revenue. i would ask that we take that to the voters for a referendum. if the voters approve it, it would make sense. i have been dealing with property reform for seven years and we delivered and county property taxes being lowest of anybody over that seven year period. >> but you are saying he will investigate a limiting property tax? >> absolutely. only if it is a real proposal. if you have replacement revenue for schools and you do it to

referendum. in the short term, if that does that happen, you have to fix the assessment system and make sure schools are proper funding. if my upon it does not fund, he is pushing it down to school districts and they will raise your property taxes. i will not do that. >> mr. corbett, i saw you shaking your head. >> we will take a look at this. i think it is important we find a source that will pay for this. we need to give that a legitimate consideration. you need to make sure that it is revenue neutral in that respect. so i agree with that. my opponent says that might ads are incorrect. he made a promise that he would cut property taxes by 10%. he has not cured i also know that in allegheny is still one of the highest in the state, in the region. >> staying on the topic of education, at the heart of the

dollars and cents conversation is the theme of our children. tonight, nearly half a million pennsylvania children cannot make the grade level in math. they are assigned to us by there's a code to attend a failing schools. you support school choice. i want to nail down what you're talking about for those kids in those failing schools. does that include allowing parents to spend it state dollars, taken education subsidy over to any school, including religious and private schools? >> i will give you the answer. tom would know that allegheny has high taxes, because he raised them when he was elected. i never did. to answer your question about choice, i made it clear. in addition to early childhood and basic funding formula, i think we should continue to reform and fixed charges. they are a great option. i supported them in my city.

i would look at the funding formula so we did not pit one school against another. i want to make sure that we have good public and charter schools. i also support the education improvement tax credit. used to be $75 million or a private company could give private money and get a tax credit that could go to any school, public, private or religious. i also support grant programs for children that are low-income and stopped and academically challenged schools. they are the choices and that i would put in place. i would be committed, no matter what we do, we would have to have good public schools. the majority of my -- our kids go there. >> let me just clarify. charter schools are public schools. they are not private schools. >> i know. >> the investment tax credit you are talking about is where our company can invest. i am talking about allowing taxpayers in failing schools to take the money and go anywhere. >> i thought i answered your

question, but i will do it again. in addition to the educational improvement tax credit which goes to private schools, the tax credit could go to parochial schools and they would take this grant and it would be limited to children of low income stuck in an academically cellist school. >> that is still not there subsidy. would you allow them to take their subsidy dollars and take it to another school? >> no. i would do it through a limited grant program. >> the problem is we have a school system across the state that is failing. 30,000 students a year dropped out of the public-school system of pennsylvania. we have to fix it. i have put in my education plan which is on the web. a very detailed plan, starting out with the early childhood initiative, where we want to put money into that. the air and education income tax credit for the business is so

that -- the current income tax credit for businesses. a yes withre me4. . we need to let the students and teachers in particular the parents know which schools are failing. we need to put a letter grade on them. if a student is attending a failing school, the parent would be able to take a child of the school and take a% of that, similar to charter schools where it is about 80% that go from the public district to the charter school, you would able to take that same money to whatever school it is. i believe that we need to look of the education system from that perspective of the child, the parent, and the teacher -- not the unions, but the teacher in the classroom. we have a very good teachers out there. we need to empower everybody to work together on that. >> let's proceed.

vernon. your question would be to mr. corbett. >> you have been accused about double talk on taxes for sissies. -- versus fees. interstate about people that would prefer to stay unemployed. could you comment on both of those? >> let me answer your second question first. i have been saying this ever since this statement, i know the people of pennsylvania are out there looking for jobs. the first thing we have to do is work much better on our workforce development, work better with schools to help develop their skills to the jobs that are available. there are not a lot of jobs that are available per there are some jobs available, but we need to do that. but we need to develop the work force for the future from our schools and for those who have lost their jobs.

a recently was in a career center up in the northwest corner of the state where i whoodld a 65-yera lost his job who is learning the skills needed to run a computer that runs a lathe. we need to encourage that. my statement was to end those. i understand that people are working. we are moving forward. we have got to get the jobs. those jobs, shale -- that is an industry that will grow hundreds of thousands of jobs and direct and indirect. >> do you really believe people want to stay on the dole as opposed to having jobs? >> i was repeating what was told to me. >> that was about how many people? >> i repeated a couple of

anecdotes. >> you were accused of double talk on taxes. >> i am the only person here who has signed a pledge not to increase taxes. i also made a promise -- will not increase any fees ever. >> mr. onorato? >> well, again, i take exception. in the public record we have in several times and that he does not support extending unemployment compensation because the jobs are there. the jobs are there and people would not look for them. that is number one. as it relates to taxes, i do not have to sign and no tax pledge, because i have governed for seven years. are reformed government. i downsized the peril. i held the line on property taxes -- by downsized the payroll. he put a tax on the workers. the last debate he said he

wouldn't. you cannot change your answer depending on what audience you are talking to. i have a track record. it gets attacked or applauded, depending on who you talk to. what i can tell you is i will defend my track record. i am prepared to reform harrisburg, create an informant for the private sector. that is why several articles have rated as the best commercial real a state market, the best place to live two years in a row, the lowest foreclosure and the state. i can go on and on, even in these tough economic times. i of the experience in working with the private sector in creating jobs and i will do that as governor. >> i am concerned that our timetable is running short so i want to bring of the issue of shale. most voters would not know what marcellus shale is, but it is

one of the largest deposits of natural gas in the world and pennsylvania is on top of it. the question is how do we extracted? do we tax it with a severance tax or do we let business and developers do it without a severance tax and they all pay taxes at some later point? basically, it is paying out or pay later. do we as a state ask for developers and energy companies to pay severance tax on the extraction of natural gas now or do we let them go about their development process seized without that severance tax and pay the state later different kinds of taxes? will the severance tax and have it the potential business activity of marcellus

shale? mr. onorato, i ask you first. >> we should do what every state is doing. we need a competitive several tax. which replace all of the cuts that were made in the department of environmental protection. right now it took a 28% cut in the last two budgets. we need to make sure they are up and running to watch the water quality and the environment. we need a private in pac fund to make sure that we have money set aside. i would do a grow and greener fund to preserve open space. we could grow this industry in environmentally smart way. the 80,000 jobs they are predicting that will come from the industry, before we get out of the permits, we need to understand that the industry of higher pennsylvanians. our people. this is no time to take an extreme position to make pennsylvania the only state that does not have a severance tax. these are real issues. when you take minerals of the

ground, you have environmental issues. why don't we use the severance tax as opposed to having the taxpayers pick up that build? >> i am not quite sure where to start on this one. we are the saudi arabia of natural gas, if we develop that now. we need to develop that now because it will provide hundreds of thousands of jobs from every study i have seen. now, i do not believe is a proper it. these companies are already paying taxes. and the money that they are already spending turns into a world to payments and many other ways. -- to royalty payment and many other ways. you have seen businesses that have gone out of business growing again because of this industry occurred in a permit fees -- the permit fees have

enabled some people to hire enough people to make sure that the people are drilling a proper way and to make sure they are not violating the environment. we do need to make sure we protect the environment. and i will never put the profit of any company ahead of protecting the environment. i'm the only one here that has protected the environment. as united states attorney, i've tried cases against municipalities that violated our streams. as attorney general, i have worked with the legislature to increase penalties against people who violate our clean streams and have gone after people who have violated the environment. i believe we would chase away these companies at this point in time. >> first of all, tom is not the only person that protecting the environment. i have a strong record. tell them the rest of the story. you take more money than any elected official in pennsylvania from the gas and oil companies. that is why you're not pushing

for the attacks occurred as a republican governor and democratic governor has this tax. this is an extreme position for pennsylvania. you are jeopardized and that taxpayers and the environment. when you talk about experience and going after people, you represent the largest landfill company when they were being charged with violations. that works both ways. i would argue, if you look at where we stand now, your position is a very extreme compared to where other states are. these ceo's know they will pay the tax. they want to. they want to make sure they get a permit. let's grow the industry the right way so that it is safe, we get the jobs, and we did not jeopardize the taxpayers to pick up this bill. >> one rebuttal. 30 seconds. >> when it comes to protecting the environment, my record is clear. and working with the company i worked with, it was to make them comply with the environmental laws. secondly, if we are going to

talk about taxes than i think we should talk about the taxes of texas. we're always compared to taxes. you cannot compare apples and oranges. if we are going to talk about a severance tax that other states have, if we want to change our entire tax system to what they have in texas, then that is what we should do. >> let's talk a good government. governor rendell has taken criticism from good government groups and the business community and other folks out there for the number of no bid contracts he has done. let me give you two examples. he gave an outgoing cabinet member of $5,000 a months no bid state consulting contract. last year, he created $95,000 state job for a democratic lawmaker of lost his reelection. what you promised the voters tonight that you will not reward your political donors and cabinet members with no bid

contracts or state government jobs? >> yes. i think it is very important that whoever comes into state government understands that in the governor's office, understands they are there to serve the people of pennsylvania. i believe there is a governor code of contact and there is a borrowar. >> are you saying he is breaking the law? >> it was a rule of the governor prosy office. it is not a law. i think it is totally inappropriate for the governor to create a $5,000 per month contract like that or to hire some other individual, this is a legislator, into a job in order that he can gain more of his pension. >> you promised tonight you will not do that. >> mr. onorato?

>> i will start by promising that i will not do that. i have had a paper that has been out since the primary that talks about this issue and other reforms. as governor, everything will be competitively bid. construction contracts have to be, but even professional service contracts. no sole sourcing of contracts. i also put a two-year maybe even longer moratorium that anybody leaving my administration cannot lobby or come back to my administration on the outside occurred. >> both of you are practicing catholics. how're your faith affect your government, specifically on abortion? >> i am a product of catholic school and it's a big part of who i am. on that particular issue, as governor, i support pennsylvania's law and would veto any attempt to change that law. >> my faith means a great deal

to me. i am a product of perot grew grade school, a public high school, a methodist college and a catholic law school. our faith guides how we make decisions, not just on abortion but on many other issues. the one thing i've learned from my faith is you must do the right thing. and i promise the people of pennsylvania the decisions i make are going to be made in the best interest of pennsylvania and will be the right thing to do. when it comes to abortion, i support the present law. if the legislature were to pass a stricter form of abortion law, i would sign it. >> most people think of this area of health care reform as a federal issue, but it is up to the states to implement the program, but i want to ask you specifically about medicaid, which complies -- comprises 20% of the state of pennsylvania's

budget and serves children, the disabled, and the elderly. will you pledge not to cut the medicaid budget in pennsylvania for a four-year term? >> the first thing we need to do is go in and find the waste in medicaid. i believe we can do that. i go back to what i said about jack wagner who indicated there is a 40% error rate, due to an eligibility. we will save a great deal of money there. a 20% guarantee i think is a good number we can reach, but to make a pledge on that without knowing the entire ty, and the money will get from the federal government for those programs, i will make a pledge that i will do my best to keep it at 20%? >> i will do everything i can

not to cut medicaid. i will look at other parts of the state budget before look at this department. i want to point out that health care itself will be a challenge for pennsylvania. the better health care bill was implemented in 2014. ipod and i have different views. we have implemented because i have watched health care costs go from $35 million to $65 million in my county. the status quo is killing small businesses. at the end of this year, 45,000 people are being kicked off adult basic. that is a contract for six years with insurance companies. they provide the funding from that period expires. i have called for the insurance company to extend it to three years. tom sided with the insurance companies to extend it for six month. we need to make sure that we did not for 45,000 people off of medical coverage just because

the clock is ticking before they get to the medical coverage. >> 15 second answers. is immigration policy exclusively the domain of the federal government? >> yes, it is. we need a comprehensive federal immigration bill. >> what he is doing in hazleton is unconstitutional, what he wants to do to have local immigration reform? >> i believe it should be done, and weekly at the federal level. >> i believe the federal government has a duty to enforce the federal immigration laws. i believe the states have the ability to make sure that the payments they are making are not going to legal immigrants and to protect their states' rights when it comes to that. >> we are at the end of our time for questions and it is time for closing statements appear. mr. corbett, you are first. >> ladies and gentlemen, it has been a pleasure to be here with you. vern, thank you for being here

tonight and participating. the next governor of pennsylvania has a number of serious decisions and serious challenges ahead. i do these challenges as opportunities. auburn to use to take pennsylvania back in a direction where it becomes a state that other states want to model themselves after. we are not there right now. but in order to do that, the next governor of pennsylvania is going to have to make tough decisions. i have made tough decisions about my career. my opponent has been little during the course of this campaign might presage a row background -- has belittled it. when i look at governor mcdonnell of virginia, governor ridge, all prosecutors who had to make tough decisions. and i promise you, so, too, will i. we have a choice. we have a distinct choice between the two candidates. if you want four more years of increased spending, of texas,

four more years of unemployment, -- of taxes, of trying to be all things to all people, if you want four more years of rendell- like policies, then i would select my opponent. if you want somebody will bring change and have the courage to make tough decisions, who will bring job creation to pennsylvania, i would ask that on november the second that you vote for me. thank you. >> again, i thank everybody for pulling together the debate tonight. light upon it wishes he was running against ed rendell. you are running against me. i will run the state differently. i will run it differently from you. i have an experience of downsizing and consolidating government. freezing assessments. as i run for governor, i will bring an outsider's point of view. you are hearing harrisburg

rhetoric tonight. i've never been in harrisburg. i have no personal gain in harrisburg. i will go there and make their real reforms like i did in the second largest county. i have worked with the private sector to create jobs. i will do it as governor the same way. we reformed government so we were more business-friendly. i will do that as governor. if we are looking for somebody that is willing to take on, yes, even the legislature, i am willing to do it, because times are tough out there. i know people are hurting out there. tom does not carry are reformed government. tom has not. i did work with the private sector to create jobs in western pennsylvania. tom has not. i appreciate your giving me the opportunity tonight. i respectfully ask for your vote. on november 3, i am going to work to put pennsylvanians back to work. >> i want to extend a personal thank you for spending time and giving our viewers an opportunity to learn more about

your views and your visions. thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> thanks to our panelists. an now we want to give n opportunity for some final words from the league of women voters. >> we want to thank the candidates for participating in this debate and wpbi for its commitment to the citizens of pennsylvania. active and informed citizens are keystone to a strong democracy. for 90 years, the league has been helping candidates learn about the candidates -- helping voters learn about the candidates. our online voters guide. please vote on tuesday, november 2, and to make democracy work. thank you for watching. [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

tern university at fort

lauderdale. this is an hour. from the beautiful campus of southeastern the university, a decision 2010 presents the candidates for u.s. senate in florida. >> welcome to the debate for the united states senate. this event is being broadcast by a number of stations across the state.

the three candidates vying for this senate seat our governor charlie crist, united states representative, kendrick meek, and the former speaker of the florida house of marco rubio. the candidates will have one minute and 15 seconds to respond to questions. our panel tonight includes william march with the tampa tribune, miriam marcus with the miami herald, and michael williams. we of asked the audience to hold their applause. our time is limited and the inches are endless. we will get started. marco rubio won the toss to go first. we will begin with the issue before voters care most about, jobs. our unemployment rate is two percentage points higher than the national average. nearly one in a floridians cannot get a job.

you oppose the federal stimulus. if we had not had that stimulus running, wouldn't have things been worse? >> thank you for having this debate. let's talk about the stimulus package. it was called stimulus for a reason. it has failed to stimulate the economy. over 200,000 floridians have lost their jobs. the unemployment rate is substantially higher than it was before it passed. it has failed to do everything that was supposed to do. on the other hand, it has stimulated the national debt. there were other alternatives to the stimulus. it was not about doing the stimulus or nothing at all. jobs are not created by politicians. presidents do not create jobs. jobs are created by everyday

people. what we need our leaders in washington that will create an environment where starting a business is easier, not harder. that has not what we have gotten. over the last 18 months, everything that has happened over there has made it harder for jobs to be created. that is the most important thing. it distinguishes me for my opponent in this race. >> the unemployment rate in the state of florida has soared during your tenure as governor. why should florida voters trust them to -- trusty to get them jobs? >> it is important to understand that this has been a tough four years, the toughest for years in the history of our state as a relief to the economy. it is easy to govern when money is flowing. it was important to take the

recovery act money for one simple reason, because i care about the people of our state. i care about you. if marco rubio had been your governor, 20,000 educators tonight would not be employed. another 60,000 of our fellow floridians would not have an income. that is unconscionable to me. that is not compassionate. i think it is important that we understand what else the stimulus dead. it cut $300 billion in tax cuts. that was important for us to remember. by investing in things that were important to people. i talked to members in the housing industry every day. some homes are starting to sell now because first-time home buyers got that $8,000 tax credit. other things that the stimulus did was invest in infrastructure.

its infrastructure is invested in, you get more jobs. >> he wrote that it would amount to the largest tax increase in american history. you want those cuts for wealthier americans to expire. you have not proposed any cuts in taxes for a larger corporations. how will that create jobs for floridians? >> thank you so very much. thank you for moderating this debate. i am glad we're having this debate tonight because it is about the future of this country and the future of our state. it is important that we look at

the stimulus. we have to look at it as a tool. when we look at tax cuts, i talked about it, marco rubio and charlie crist stand side by side and making sure that these special interest and the super wealthy get their tax cuts. even those to ship jobs overseas. middle-class families under the income of two under $50,000 would have to pay $6,000 a year -- $250,000 would have to pay $6,000 a year. i am for child credits. i am for tax credits that will help people get people on their feet. they are advocating tax cut for those that are privileged in this country. we had a different economic time. we are in a super deficit. they believed in trickle-down

economics. it did not work when it was first introduced and it will not work now. >> next question from michael williams. >> turning to the federal deficit, non-partisan economists argue that to avoid long-term federal bankruptcy, either taxes must be raised on all americans or huge untitled reforms must be again beginning with social security. when we hear more and more than anything else is a political ally is simply this. >> basing that stark choice, do you raise taxes or begin to cut benefits? where and how? >> you do what we have done in florida. now is the time to cut taxes. this is where the speaker and i agree. we have to cut taxes to put more of your money into your pocket. we have to do it for small businesses, too.

i think it is important to have those tax cuts, about, make sure that we have them going forward, make sure that you have more of your hard-earned dollars in your pocket. >> specifically to the question. raise taxes eventually or cut benefits? given that choice, first and foremost, which is your choice? >> neither one. that is a false choice. " we have to do is be smart and prudent and protect our seniors. my republican opponent talks about raising age of eligibility or privatizing social security. that is not what our seniors deserve. that is a promise that was made to them. i am the only one that said if

elected, i will protect and preserve social security as we know it today. it was a promise that was made to you. once they get through this difficult time, we can do what we did in florida. i am a fiscal conservative. i slashed the budget by $7.4 billion. we did it by -- without hurting health care, seniors, or education. >> even leading house democrats acknowledged earlier in the year that we would have to put everything on the table of eventually, including social security. you have not talked much about these tough choices. if it comes down to having to raise taxes or cut social security benefits, which is your

choice? how do you do it? how do you answer that question? >> you have been around a long guest. i think it is very important to pay attention to what the governor just said. he said very little. he said but we have been hearing all through the years, the washington d.c., let's cut taxes and everything will work out. when it comes down to these entitlement programs, we have to be able to lead all the waste. look out the health care legislation. it is the second largest deficit reduction legislation that has been passed in the congress in several years. charlie crist wants to repeal it. marco rubio wants to repeal it. we have to make tough decisions. when it comes down to dealing with this issue and how we get there, we get there rolling up

our sleeves and making sure we work on the issues that are facing this country. the very tax cuts that they are talking about are talks cuts that are going to take this country into a deeper hole. $700 billion for the super wealthy in this country will bring about the fall of many of these programs. that -- the next senator of florida must be a protector of the people of this state. >> i am not hearing from either one of you what is going to happen to social security when we know that full benefits will not be able to be paid out in 2037. neither view is proposing a specific solution. -- neither of you is proposing a specific solution. >> report after report does indicate what you just said. it is important for people to hear. social security is solvent until

lot least 2037 or 2041. yet there are people who want to tinker with it. it does not make sense. it is one of the few programs that actually works. typical of washington d.c., it is what politicians attack. >> it will not work in barely more than a generation. >> it is important that we expand middle-class jobs. both these gentlemen want to give tax cuts to companies that ship jobs overseas. expanding the middle class in florida will help the social security trust fund. i think it is very important. 40% of floridians will go into poverty without social security. if someone wants to change social security, they will have to go through me.

>> we have yet heard hard specifics. let me also put a question to you. we will need to look at entitlement reform over the long term. anything less is simply someone wanting to be elected to office. what do you propose? higher taxes or begin to make reforms? what are the tough reforms that you are willing to consider? >> i have to set the record straight and answer the question. the governor has repeated something bad is now an old political track. let scare seniors about social security. if you are over the age of 55, and you are a current beneficiary, i do not believe there should be any changes to social security for you.

my mom turns 80 years old two weeks from today. social security is the sole source of income that she has. i would never support any changes to social security that would adversely affect her. what you have not heard to date is a real plan of social security. there are no problems with social security, according to gov. chris. for years now, congress has been raiding the social security trust fund. the is it to pay for all sorts of things. by the year 2037, let me tell you what the year 2037 is. that is the year that my daughter turns my age. the closer we get to that year, the harder it is to solve these problems. the number of workers, younger people like myself, they need to understand that we will have to discuss different options on the table.

whether it is looking at indexing for younger workers. not the people that are on the system today. a progressive price index is something like it. again, these are options. amnesty for illegal aliens, he said that the former labor secretary, someone needs to tell him because he has never heard of it. he thinks you're plan makes it worse, not better. >> clubs do a quick question of what would you say -- let's do a quick question of what would you say to this voter? stimulus, we talked about it. there are different scenarios. each one has a different reaction from the taxpayers. we will start with kendrick meek. what you tell small-business woman, an importer, she imports

from colombia, and she is trying very hard to hire more workers. unfortunately, she looks at the federal stimulus and what she sees is all the money going to help labor unions hire more workers or keep teachers and police and firefighters, but nothing for her. what do you tell her? >> tax cuts, infrastructure, and money that went to states to be able to balance the budget. we looked at these projects that are ongoing. some small businesses have received a tax cut from the stimulus plan. the stimulus is the past. the future is right now in the united states senate. he did not lift a finger to move

the jobs bill for words or the small-business bill for words in the senate. if marco rubio was the united states senator, he would have voted against the stimulus. he would not have a proposal. the real issue is someone who was willing to take on those issues, i am therefore them. that is the reason why i stand up for tax cuts for small businesses. i look forward to doing that when i become the next united states senator. the stimulus was to help start infrastructure projects, green initiatives, give tax cuts to floridians. to make sure that we provide a baseline for the government to be able to carry out the services that only that business -- that they should be able to take advantage of. >> you are next, marco rubio.

what would you tell a hotel worker that is cleaning rooms and her husband has been in construction for the last 10 years and he has lost his job. they are counting on the back unemployment extension, part of the stimulus money. all she thinks about is, marco rubio wants to extend tax cuts, but not worry about those who are already unemployed. >> that is not an accurate -- accurate reflection of what my position has been. identifies some area in the budget -- >> where would that be? >> some of the unspent stimulus money. do not double add to the dead. i do not think anyone would argue that you will not be able to find savings after this spending spree. they have grown the national

debt by $3 trillion over the last 18 months. it is an atrocious number. you ask a question about choosing between spending reduction and tax cuts. that is a false choice. the obama administration and the current congressional leadership have proposed a budget and if you extend it over 10 years, has massive tax increases and massive spending increases. they will double the national debt by the middle of this decade. over $900 billion a year will be borrow every year just to pay the interest on the debts. half of that interest will go overseas to china and bondholders over -- elsewhere. >> what would you tally dr. houk -- what would you tell a doctor who treats medicare patient and is looking at the stimulus money

and says there has been no help for me. congress has passed health-care reform and by medicare payments have not ground in the last x number of years. every year congress decides to postpone the inevitable love to try to contain those costs. -- inevitable below. >> i would tell the doctor that you need to send an independent to the united states senate. this is the problem with washington. this is a problem with the washington d.c., not being able to get things done. they are stuck in gridlock and they cannot get together. if either of these two guys go to washington, they will gets in their corner when they get there. they will fight anything that requires common sense. >> that is a good talking point. what would you -- how would you deal with the issue of medicare

payments? that is a recurring issue. >> by working with the other people in the congress for a common-sense solution. that is what is frustrating to people who are watching tonight. all the year from washington is, we have got to do it our way, are you have to take the highway. it happened with obama care. i opposed it. the democrats rammed the thing through. will we have to do is say, look, we do need to do -- we need to do what is right for the people. the president started -- the president started out saying, i am going to work across the aisle. it has not happened. it needs to happen. whether it is the medicare issue with the doctor, the hotel worker, every authority in in this audience has to have someone go up there and say, enough is enough. >> thank you.

>> on health care, what your campaign, you have condemned the obama administration reform plan and as a understand it, any plan that requires that all americans have health insurance, even though mitt romney implemented just such a plan in massachusetts. what is your solution for the system that we have now? for most americans, it is grossly expensive and is inundated with the red tape. what would you do? >> william, we are the only candidate that has actually offered a concrete plan. i will take the question into parts. the health care bill has broken every promise that they made. they said that if you were happy with your insurance coverage, you will not turn your coverage.

59% of americans could lose their coverage. we're told that it would make medicare more solvent. we are losing the medicare advantage plan. health care costs are going up all across the board. what i propose is that the health insurance industry is upside-down. the health care consumer, they have no choices. you usually get your insurance from your employee eat -- employer. what i would propose is to change that around. to allow every individual to buy health insurance from any company in america. even if they are in another state. by allowing every individual to buy health insurance for themselves, to have the same tax benefits that their employer has. by allowing small companies and associations to pull together and buy insurance with the same tax benefits. >> you have also said that you

oppose the obama plan and would vote to repeal it, prepare it, replace it. -- lee perez, replace it. you said that it has cost too much. your proposal as governor fort solving health care problems to cover explored the plan has provided help to only 6200 people in florida. what contribution do you have to this debate is not bad? >> a lot. i think that obama care was off the charts. it was wrong. did has mandates that are unconstitutional. it is not the way to go. what do we do in florida? we passed a plan that you referred to. when you talk about the fact that only 6200 people have

signed up for it, it took health insurance during -- from an average of about $700 a month for the uninsured, for those who have recently lost their jobs, and reduced it to about $150 a month. i met with a lady last month in century village in boca raton. she came up to me and said, thank you for passing cover florida. she told me that she was not able to afford coverage for her son, recently been diagnosed with cancer. she was able to get coverage because of cover florida. he got his treatment and he is now in remission. that may be only one family, but that one family and that one person me a lot to me. this is the kind of compassion that you deserve in a public servant. i have been your governor. you know you can trust what i tell you. it is important that we have people in public office that

understand. >> let's turn the question around a little bit. boeing corporation just announced a very large health care premium rates for its 90,000 employees. a lot of americans are seeing increases. according to projections from the cbo, those increases will probably get worse. at the same time, the plan did cut the medicare advantage plan, which a lot of floridians depend on. most floridians say they are opposed to it. how do you defend it? >> the real issue is that floridians are uninsured, 3500 a week lose their insurance. it is fair in born to note that something needed to be done about health care. the last election cycle was all about health care.

the plan was followed through on. the governor calls it obama care. the real issue that it is health care. when it comes down to it, we have people you have rights that they did not have before the passage of that plan. polls can act like everything was fine because the reason why it was an issue in the last election was because businesses were going out of businesses, small and large. something needed to be done. when it comes down to medicare, it has done more to help medicare. insurance companies are playing chicken with florida and and americans. what was this case last year? and the year before that? the bottom line is, the next united states senator has to be someone who will stand up against the special interest companies and not cave in to them. i am shocked to hear the go from the governor talking about obama care.

i wonder if he would say that to the president. you have to have a leader who will stand that regardless of what people say when it comes down to standing up for floridians. it is really mind-boggling to me how you can stand there and start throwing out accusations. >> governor, i will give you a very quick rebuttal. >> when we are on the beach, we were protecting florida. >> you are for offshore oil drilling. >> no, i am not. >> you were with sarah palin a couple of years ago. >> i was there to support my friend john mccain. >> i look in to rescue both here. we will take a very quick break before we astound -- before we

start another round of questions. >> welcome back to the debate for the united states senate. this event is being seen by voters across the state. we will get right back to the questions. that is something that your opponents have accused you of doing. it used -- when becoming an independent, you change some of your positions. the beasts and birds on or in a fight and that would not take a side. -- bat would not take a side. who are you now? >> i am the same guy i have always bend.

i'm charlie crist and i am a fiscal conservative and a social moderate. i believe that we have to spend our money wisely. we need to make sure that your taxes are low. we need to make sure that small businesses have the opportunity to to provide more jobs. i also believe in the lid and let live. i am running against marco rubio, when it comes to issues related to women, he believes that a woman's right to she is ought to be taken away by overturning roe versus wade. i do not think that is right for florida or right for women. i am also the guy that believes in protecting our senior citizens. the only things that are on the table as it relates to social security are making sure that others people's hands stay out of it. we have a duty to preserve it for the american people.

i am not that believes in common sense. i am running against an extreme right wing candidate who believes that taking away women's rights, punishing seniors, punishing teachers. >> your voting record is almost identical to nancy pelosi. your positions could have been written -- or platform could have been written by the white house. almost two-thirds of the american population thinks we're on the wrong track. why should they elect someone who is so closely associated with the administration's policies? >> i think it is very important that people have health care. i think it is important that we stand up to wall street. the regulators on both sides of me. that is what got us in this mess and the first place.

i believe in housing reform. i look forward to standing with things that work. when it comes down to fighting for floridians, i am on their side. i think is important to know that i am standing between two individuals who have been in a room together dealing with the state budget. they know they have had conversations. when minimal wage was up here in florida, i am the only one who stood for minimum-wage rate when it came to health care, i am the only person who fought for health care. when it came down to fighting for our environment, the green jobs initiative, i am the only one. i am the only candidates who will stand up on behalf of floridians and not the special

interest. >> you are running on what many commentators have described as one of the more anti latino platforms around. use of -- you support the arizona immigration law. you oppose a dream act. you oppose the pathway to citizenship. it has made you a darling of the tea party and got you enormous support. how can florida voters feel comfortable that you are not beholden to interest in the tea party? >> i am the only candidate that has a platform on his website that outline specific ideas. i reject the characterization that might platform is against americans of hispanic descent. there is running in america that is more pro legal immigration than i am. my parents were immigrants.

i've grown up around immigration my entire life. it is an important part of our heritage. i do not think that america can be the only country in the world that does not enforce the immigration laws. the laws need to be followed. we need to have a system that works. we resort to characterization's of people political positions. the things i believe and are pretty simple to understand brent i believe the economy does not grow because the politicians. it grows because of people who start businesses and expand existing businesses. i believe that the world will be a better and safer place when america is the country -- strongest country in the world. >> thank you. michael williams? >> jenna men, issues of character and integrity consistently come up among floridians.

many say that all politicians are the same. beginning with its view, you tried to land federal money from a developer dennis stackhouse now facing charges on unrelated charges. your mother was being paid a sizable fee by mr. stackhouse. why is that? why should anybody consider that any more than typical business as usual in washington? >> the bottom line is that my track record does not speak to anything that is unethical. it is important to know that i've been a state trooper in this state. i voted for every ethics bill. i live in the congress as it relates to corruption. i represent a poverty district. that is one of the reasons i am

running for the senate. to make sure that we have leadership that will put people back to work. when it comes down to the situation dealing with mr. stackhouse, the state attorney is doing what she has to do. i support her in that effort. i am working elected official. someone that is going to dive into problems and deal with them. it is very important to also know that this state needs strong leadership that has integrity. that is the reason why i took the time to go throughout this great state of bars, getting signatures, looking floridians in the eye and asking them to sign a petition to place my name on the ballots. that is the reason i won the primary. i am connected to the everyday florida yen. i'm a public servant and not a politician. >> should you have known more note -- should have -- should you have known more about those ties? >> it is very important to know

that if i had to do it all over again, i would have paid closer attention. there is no improprieties there. >> you have had to pay back some $16,000 in personal expenses run up on a florida republican party issued credit card. you had a home in tallahassee near foreclosure. huge champion's yourself of as a watchdog. -- eugene been yourself as a watchdog. -- you at champion yourself as a watchdog. >> anything that is personal, i paid out of my own pocket. if i had to do those things again, i would handle them differently. i have never had personal expenses paid for by the republican party. these are important issues that we should discuss.

did they cannot be the only issue in this campaign. we are literally have fight to the debate and we're less than two weeks away from the election and that question after question, we've not heard a plan. at least congress and meat has a voting record. -- congressman meek as a voting record. this election cannot be like the other ones. the stakes are too high. we are deciding what kind of country our children are going to be -- are going to inherit. we are not born to fix that by sending typical politicians to washington. we already have too many people like that in washington. >> you pushed over the strong

objections of republican party leaders for the chairman of the party. he now faces charges of the misuse of donations. you stood by him to the very end. why did you do so? what does it say about your judgment and your ability to make decisions? >> you did the very best you can when you are picking people. that applies in every instance and in every appointment i've made. when you do the best that you can, sometimes you are disappointed. it happened to governor jenna bush. he appointed to be -- a guide to be the head of the department of corrections and ended at been arrested after he was indicted and is now in prison. it happens. i do want to talk about what has happened as it relates to my

republican opponent. let me related to you. when the speaker was speaker of the courthouse, he had a home here in miami. it was for sale. before that sale took place, he was on the other side of the personal injury protection issue. once he sold the home, for it $380,000 cash, the speaker is fish -- opinion on the issue change. miraculously, that bill went through. >> let me set the record straight. let me set the record straight.

>> it is happening to -- because you deserve to know where we stand on the issues. >> with the governors that is categorically false. -- what the governor said he is categorically false. lengthse was an arm's transaction. we reduced the price of the home. it did have been for sale for months. my position did not change. the legislation failed to pass in the florida house and it did not pass for a month later. let's talk about why this is happening. the governor is running on this idea that he is a centrist. he wants to change the tone of washington. he just launched a vicious personal attack against me. why is this happening? this is a personal attack. >> is not a personal attack. >> you talk about newspapers,

governor. the last call he made before he switched parties, it was to a pollster. >> let's move on. i will have to take control here. >> a practice on the filibuster over there. [laughter] serious business on the war on terror. we talk about the generational stakes. let's look at the war on terror. when do we know? the public support is starting to wane. we have been in this for nine years. how do we know what we need be -- what we have done what we need to do in afghanistan? >> the goal in afghanistan is to have a stable afghan government

and a strong civil society. the reason why that is important is not just because of afghanistan. afghanistan is a neighbor with pakistan. if afghanistan were to fall or evolve into chaos, it would be a base of operations to destabilize and overthrow the government in pakistan. a radical islamic regime were to take control, you would have been in possession of a nuclear weapon. general petraeus and the president have it right. the role is to provide security and safety. the afghan people can begin to govern themselves. that is the: afghanistan. the stakes are high. it is important for our leaders to explain that to people. i do not support a -- an arbitrary withdrawal from the region. it is important that we be successful in that region.

when you announce to the enemy that you'll be leaving on a date, you open yourself up to failure. >> all right. same question. >> we agreed pretty much on this point. the most important thing that the government can do is to make sure we are safe and secure. the founding fathers understood it. they put it in the first line of the constitution. the war on terrorism must continue until we are safe and secure. recently, we are reports of a possibility of terrorist attacks in europe. we suffered severely as a nation when this occurred in new york city and in pennsylvania and the pentagon. what the president is trying to do in afghanistan is right. one of the things that encourages the the most about that policy presently is that general petraeus is the man that is leading our troops on the ground in afghanistan. it would be laudable and it

would be good if we would be able to withdraw those troops next summer, which is the goal that the administration has expressed. however, i would be cautionary there. the only way that can occur if -- is it general petraeus has the facts and circumstances at that time that support that withdrawal. otherwise, if we have to stay and make sure that america continues to be secure, it is the first and foremost thing we need to do as a nation. >> let's try to see if we can get your answers short. >> thank you so very much. as you can see, both of my opponents agree with afghanistan and pakistan. i am the only candidate that has been to afghanistan and pakistan and iraq. i talked to men and women in harm's way. they been deployed over the last 10 years. it is not how long we will stay in, it is how long our coalition

partners will stay with us. it is very important that we continue to work with secretary of state clinton. we cannot do it alone, like we tried to do in iraq. this is not just about a maraca. it is about the world. -- this is not just about america. i want to say to all the military families right now. i do understand what you are going through. a lot of folks do not like to talk about the fact that we have mothers and families -- mothers and fathers that have missed the weddings and funerals because they are serving our country. i understand those issues. i think it is important that we have a policy that is sound, but looking -- that is very important that we look at this debate. >> i will ask you to keep your questions to 30 seconds. >> on immigration, you have

advocated a path to citizenship for an immigrant who are here illegally. what me ask you to the imagine that instead of this audience, you were speaking to a group of people you have waited years to enter this country legally. how do you defend that? >> would i am more concerned about is what is best for florida and america. 11-14 million people who are here are not legal citizens as of yet. we need to secure our borders. it must be done. we need to have a path to citizenship that is provided to these people who are here. it is what president bush wanted to do. it is what senator mccain and kennedy wanted to do. it was the right approach. >> we have to move on. >> key u.s. been in congress for

a years. for 8been in congress years. nobody thinks our border is secure. how long will it take? why has it not happen? >> when i get to the senate, it will happen. every time they approach protected our borders, making sure that there is a pathway to status in this country and going after those employers that keep the u.s. worker home and making sure that it is comprehensive and fair to our law enforcement officers. marco rubio would like to see -- we have wanted to protect our borders for the last 15 years. >> you have already spoken a bit on immigration. you are opposed to the dream

act. let me ask that you pretend you have an imaginary audience. tell them why they should not be citizens. >> children that were brought here by their parents, brought here when they were young children, they have done well in school and want to continue their education, i am in favor of accommodating them. as part of a modernization of what we are dealing with our immigration system. the dream act goes well beyond that. it could apply to all boards of 2 million people. >> we need to proceed immediately to the closing statements. >> thank you very much to leadership florida. i got into this race a few months ago against some pretty

significant odds. a lot has happened over the last 18 months. this election is about the future of our country. it is about what kind of nation we believe our children. the choice before us is very clear. we will either be our first americans ever to leave our children worse off than ourselves. or we will our children to be the most prosperous americans ever lead. that choice is up to us. it is what this election is all about. the road that washington has caused bond is the wrong direction. it is a road that will rob us of our exceptional was them. if we are willing to send people to washington d.c. to stand up for that and offer an alternative, to confront and solve the challenges of our time, we will be able to leave our children with add better country. >> i want to think leadership

florida for this evening as well as nova southeastern univ.. i am running for the senate as an independent for you. i am running as an independent because washington is broken. it is enamored with the gridlock. they cannot get anything done. it is very frustrating to me. i sure governor, we've been able to get things done. that is very important. what we need to do is realize that there is an extreme right candidate in this race. he is proud of it. he says he is a tea party guy and he wears a as a badge of honor. i think that women should have the opportunity to make their own decisions about their lives as it relates to roe versus wade. senior citizens deserve to have the united states senator that will defend them and protect social security. i will do that for you. we have to defend our teachers. i am humbled asking for your

vote. >> we need to move on. >> thank you so very much. i am glad we had this debate tonight. earlier today, i was with president bill clinton in st. petersburg. i will be with him in orlando tomorrow. i am glad the 42nd president stands with me. in this debate, there is a clear choice. i am the only pro-choice candidate in this race. i am the only candidate that stands up for working men and working women. i am the only candidate that would have against tallahassee for smaller class sizes. i am the only candidate that will stand up to oil companies that want to drill off the coast of florida. there may be issues that we may disagree with, there is one thing that will not be mistaken nine. not being able to have a clear vision for florida and not standing up for you. i want to be your next united states senator.

let the world know that we stand with those who stand with us. when you vote, we all win. >> thank you. my thanks to everyone that has participated in this debate tonight. [applause] please vote on november 2. thank you for watching tonight. have a good night. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> matt bai writes the political times column for the "new york times." he joins us from his office in the nation's capital. i wanted to ask you the types of people that they are polling and what did they find about these voters? >> an interesting thing. they are sort of corporate marketters.

you get 12 people together. say -- what do you think to have message. you get half a dozen people who know each other. a place where they are comfortable. ask them, questions begining with designing your own country. what would it look like and how would it be different from the country you have and in that way create a picture from what is missing in the political process. when you do that, you get -- taxes or health care or the size of government or spending but we don't get that same focus on it that you might expect from political polling and focus groups. you hear a lot about what's happening to society at large

and how the political process plays into that. >> what were some of the top issues that these folks were bringing up in these conversations? >> the issue coming up again and again is accountability. there was a woman there who works in a school and she was talking about how the kids had a food fight which they had preplanned but nobody wanted to make the kids clean it up because it was too close to labor. the cafeteria ladies had to clean it up. some talked about driving. people -- they scowl at you. they are angry on the roads. they have all of this anxiety. i talked about the economy in terms of wanting to get them to slow down and spend time with their kids. having to learn about the content, and unregulated. what comes across the sense, you

know, they relate this to politics. we're all familiar with. all of these influences coming at us so quickly and nobody really being accountable and taking responsibility. they see the political -- in much the same way as the food fight or the cafeteria, people making a mess, throwing money around or fighting with each other all day or caring more actor interests than they do about the voters and no one taking responsibility. no one calculable with the decision that gets made. >> the headlines to your piece is only about the issues. what do they want to do with it in this upcoming election? what does it mean to candidates? >> they are not working for candidates. they had an interest in doing this taking some of the thing they do for supermarkets or other corporate entities. they feel eventually, one guy

does some political work. they were mostly trying get an experiment, i think if you constantly ask people about issues and ideology, they will get responses based in the moment based on how they feel about issues and ideology. that is not necessarily what is driving discon innocent the political process. making more sense -- in 2006, swing to the right just four years later. saying what is going on here. how can ideology change so much? we think it is the independent voters. they have a basic frustration with the society and the political process making that manifest in their vote against status quo on a regular basis. >> do you think there are any

candidates out there tapping into the issues that these pollsters have discovered? >> i think president obama tapped into this in 2008. i think this is why he did so well with independents. ironically i think it is why john mccain was doing so well with independents. you know was kind of overtaken. there were vashese politician who is filled the space who promised to transsend the partisan dynamic in washington. promised to change the dialogue to, stay there and address their concerns about modern society. and, it generally proves -- bogged down in the party politics. you get bogged down in the issues. i think this is -- happened to the president in the last two years. >> mault bai, his column is

"political times" and you can read that at ny times. >> in a minute, midterm election and latino voters and in about 20 minutes, the illinois senate debate, alexi giannoulias and mark kirk. this vase rated a toss up. on "washington journal" this morning, we'll look at campaign spending this morning. phil bredesen with his new book on health care and margery dannenfelser.

a million more hispanic voters could cast votes next month than in the 2006 elections according to the head of latino appointed officials. vargas discussed contests in which latino votes could be deciding. sentation on the 2010 midterm elections, a latino perspective. we are here today to discuss the impact of latinos as voters and as candidates in the 2010 election. my name is arturo vargas, i'm the executive director of naleo, the national association of latino elected and appointed officials. we are a national in a bishop organization of america's latino public servants. our members are school board members, city council numbers, mayors, county officials, state legislators, members of congress, democrats,

republicans, independents, all working together to promote civic participation of latinos. i also am the executive director of the naleo educational fund, non-profit nonpartisan organization whose mission is to about the permission nation of latinos in the american political process. now, voting and running for office, serving in public office, are the cornerstones of that participation. and the discussion today, the impact latinos will have, in the 2010 midterm elections. with every election cycle, the influence of latinos has increased. and 2010 will continue that trend. our presentation today is based on two reports are one, we released in june, the 2010 naleo election handbook which include our projections for latino voter turnout for november. and it's based on report that we are releasing today, races to

watch, naleo 2010 election profile and analysis of all the latino candidates running for congress, statewide office in state legislative seats in the november general election. but before we talk about what will happen on november 2, let's remember what happened in 2008. latinos had a decisive impact in the 2008 presidential contest, both in the primaries and in the general elections. and in both parties. latino voters influenced the vote for republicans and for democrats. if we remember the florida republican primary, john mccain was running behind, and had no hispanic voter participate in the florida republican primary. it seems that mitt romney would have emerged victorious. but because john mccain received more than 50% of the hispanic vote, he carried the

florida republican primary, ultimately putting him on the road to winning the gop nomination. latino had a similar influence on the democratic side. senator hillary clinton was able to stay in the contest to the very end of the primaries. in fact, she was able to stay in the race until the final primary of the 2008 democratic schedule, which was held in puerto rico. and for the first time in memory, major candidates were running and competing for the latino vote in the streets of old san juan. senator clinton was able to stay in the race because she was able to carry key states in primaries, largely on latino border support. a case in point with the california. exit polls suggest that had no hispanics voted in the california democratic primary, then senator barack obama would have nearly one and carried california. but because of latinos voted,

and senator clinton carried two-thirds of the latino vote, she handedly won the state of california. so both democratic and republican primaries and contests were influenced by latino voters, and we know that in november the outcome gave the rays to senator barack obama. latino voters made a difference in several of those elections. in fact, in four states alone the difference between john mccain's margin and senator barack obama's margin was smaller than the margin latinos had. and though states that latinos helped turn from states that were carried by george w. bush in 2004, to barack obama in 2008, included an exit, colorado, nevada and florida. so clearly, latinos are able to influence statewide results in major elections. and even as we move towards november, already latinos are having an impact.

in fact, in the florida republican primary for the governor race, probably the most vivid example of how latino voters have made a difference already in this election cycle. florida attorney general bill mccollum was assumed the favorite to win the republican primary and received the nomination for governor, but to his in many others surprise, he lost that race to rick scott. many political observers believe the recent bill mccollum laws of florida primary for governor was because he moved too much to the extreme on the issue of immigration, losing the support of hispanic republican voters. who either voted for rick scott or just decided not to participate in that election. that a specialist out in the county of miami-dade. so that contest no longer includes mccullough. now it is rick scott against alex singh. to our projections for 2010 in november are that 6.5 many the

keynotes will vote on november 2. nearly 1 million more latino voters than in 2006, where 5.5 million voters participate. that's a 17% increase. nationally we believe latinos would be 7% of all americans who cast a vote on november 2. we are not equally distributed in all 50 states and will have a great impact in many states than others. latinos will be 18% of the turnout from arizona, 20% of the turnout in california, 13 in colorado, 11 in florida, 34% in new mexico, 9% of voters in new york, and 19% of voters in texas. now, our projections our truth estimates based solely on past participation come and do not account for other variables that affect turnout, variable such as high profile races, controversy, or actions by state legislatures.

our projections are derived by taking to the tina votes in 2006, and increasing it by the average of percentage change of the latino vote for the previous three elections. while these are conservative estimates, while we project 6.5 million latinos will vote on november 2, rest assured that we and many others are doing all we can to break out on projections. now, as evidence of the growing impact of latinos in u.s. politics, this your latinos are running for federal or state offices in 41 states. just 12 years ago in 1998, latinos were running for federal and state office in 26 states. we've increased that participation now from coast-to-coast, the border to border. only nine states do not have a latino or latina running for federal or state office in november. we project to see significant changes at the state

legislatures around the country. 10 states will have changes in a number of latinos who serve in the state senate. the states include arizona, california, hawaii, maryland, michigan, missouri, nevada, new york, north dakota and texas. we project a net gain of nine additional latino and latina state senators come november 2, for a total of 56 democrats, eight republicans. we could have 65 latinos and the team is in state senate come november 2 or november 3, we project 70 for latinos and latinas serving and upper houses in state legislatures. the difference will be slightly more modest in lower houses of state legislatures. we predict that 17 states will see differences in the number of latinos and latinas serving in the lower houses. we project an increase from 179, to 180 for latinos and latinas

in the lower houses of state legislatures, including 158 democrats, 26 republicans. we also have latinas running for state wide office. overall, 18 candidates, 18 latinos, latinas are running for statewide office in 90 different states. seven of those candidates are in the state of new mexico where perhaps one of the most exciting races is taking place today with the contest between martinez and lieutenant governor diane. should ms. martinez when she would become the first female and first hispanic to hold the office of governor in the state of new mexico. latino voters will be decisive as well as in this race, as one of three registered voters in the state of new mexico is of hispanic descent. we also project that latino candidates and voters will make a difference in the state of nevada.

former federal judge and former attorney general brian is facing third county commissioner chair rory reid in the contest for governor. in this tight race, more than 12% of the registered voters in nevada are latino. it's not just where the tier candidates are running that latinos make a difference. but in states with major contests among non-latinos, not latino voters to have an influence. in my home state of california, we are seeing an historic amount of resources being spent by businesswomen make women enter contest for governor against attorney general jerry brown. 20%, one out of five, of our registered voters in the state of california are latino. both candidates understand that you cannot win state office in a state of california today without the latino strategy. both meg whitman and jerry brown have aggressive campaign to innings in spanish to reach

latino voters up and down the state. knowing that they need to capture 30 to 40% of the latino vote if they're going to win sacramento. there's another type is happening in colorado. a three-way race between denver mayor, u.s. former state, u.s. representative, and businessman dad who is running as republican party's candidate. in the state of colorado in a very tight race, a small number of voters can make a difference. one out of 10 voters in colorado is latina. we believe they will be decisive in determining the future leader of the state of colorado. we are seeing similar impacts and other gubernatorial races around the country such as in florida. again, the chief financial officer, democrat, running against a surprise candidacy of businessmen rick scott where 12.9, nude 13% of all voters are

latinos in that contest. and in a state of texas where an incumbent governor rick perry is running against former houston mayor bill white, where more than one out of five registered voters is latino. other races where latinos are running includes of course the florida u.s. senate race. a three-way race between former speaker of the florida house of representatives marco rubio, governor charlie crist, and democrat ken meek. this three way race again, it in a tight contest, a small number of voters can make a difference. generally 30% of voters is not a small number. hispanic voters from florida could be decisive once again in a statewide election in florida. moving around the country to other races were not latino candidates are running, for the u.s. senate, we go back to

california. a spirited contest between incumbent senator barbara boxer, again, businesswoman. once again, both of these candidates have launched aggressive campaigns to try to capture the latino vote, both of them again understand that you cannot win state office today in california without a latino strategy, a significant share of that 20% of the electorate which is latina. also in colorado where one out of 10 voters is latino, a close contest between michael bennet who was appointed to the u.s. senate seat by governor romer, and ken buck, the republican side, a tight race where a small percentage of the electorate can make a difference. and, of course, perhaps the attention of the entire country on a u.s. senate race, nevada. the contest between senate majority leader harry reid and former assembly member sharron

angle, latest polls show that this race is a dead heat. and in such a contest, 12% of the electorate is latino, could be a decisive difference. for the u.s. congress, there are four competitive u.s. house races where latino voters can make a difference. income in loretta sanchez in california district 47 will be facing in orange county is running against california assembly monday than train. in this district 43% of the borders registered voters are latinos. it's probably the most significant challenge that congresswoman sanchez has yet faced. in florida's district 25, the seat vacated by lincoln, we have a contest between david rivera and joe garcia. again, a dead heat when more than half of the voters are hispanic, and we expect to stand to be decisive in the outcome.

texas district 17, businessman bill florez, republican, is challenging incumbent chet edwards. chet edwards has been targeted many times before. this time it's a latino candidate where 10% of the voters are latino. this is a tight race being watched very closely, as is texas congressional district 23 where incumbent rodriguez, democrat, is being challenged by canseco. and district 51% of the voters are hispanic and will be making the decision on the future representative of texas district. now there are two other district we project possible gain by latinos. in idaho's congressional district one, state representative raul is taking on incumbent congressman nick.

and in the state of washington, third congressional district, state representative jamie herrera is taking on tv station owner danny hick. interestingly, both of these latino challengers are republican taking on democrats, and with a very strong opportunity to be competitive, victoria street come november 2. we predict that, this election, we will go from 20 latino democrats and three at latino republicans in the u.s. house, the 21 latino democrats and five latino republicans in the congress. latino voters also will be decisive in races where there are no latino candidates, but their presence along the electorate will be decisive. florida's district eight between dan webster, here 18% of the latino voters are latinos.

nevada's third district, where 13% of the electorate is latino. new mexico's second district where incumbent harry get is being challenged, to retain his seat. year, nearly 37% of the voters are latinos. and in new york's 13th congressional district where mike mccann is being challenged by michael allegany, where nearly, where more than 10% of the voters are latinos. now, it's not just the presence of latinos voters as candidates that driving interest in this election. certainly the issue of immigration and the lack of immigration reform has caught the attention of the entire country. the issue is in the nightly news virtually every single day, covered in print, radio, media, and it certainly has captured

the attention of latino voters. a train to educational fund released the poll in june of this year. we polled 1600 latino registered voters, 404 states, california, colorado, florida and texas. these were latino registered voters, was remarkable to us is that for the first time in years of polling, the issue of immigration was the number one priority issue for latino voters as an election approached. typically, the issues have been education, the economy, health care, other issues that are born to all americans. but for the first time in 2010, we have the issue of immigration that has surfaced at the issue that is capturing the interest in the attention of latino voters. and how candidates use this issue could certainly have an effect of how latinos perform. our poll asked latino registered voters if they were likely to support or oppose a candidate whose positions on immigration

they disagreed with. overwhelmingly, latino voters told us that they were likely to oppose a candidate on whose positions of immigration they disagreed with. they also told us that they were very likely to vote and follow this election very closely. as of november 2 approaches, and the issue of immigration continues to be exploited, by candidates on both sides of the issue, it is certainly to drive latinos to the polls with a nation of having their voices heard. now, we at the naleo education fund will do all we can do on nonpartisan get out the vote effort to ensure that latinos are heard, and that we break our own projection of just six points 5 million latino voters next month. as an organization, we will be directly contacting a quarter million latinos in 16 commuters across the country, encouraging them to be heard on election day. we also are working in coalition with our sister organizations,

the national council, spanish-language media including univision, and media through television, radio and print, under the campaign, a campaign that is proven to be successful in motivating latinos to action, to participate in consensus, to register though, to apply for citizenship, through this year the message after the census has been to register to vote and vote november 2. so we expect on november 3 that the political landscape of the united states will have shifted again. and latino voters and candidates will once again have made a significant difference in the u.s. political system. thank you, and i would be willing to take any questions. >> sharron angle's recent comment to a group of hispanic students, high school students, that some of them quote location to her, will have an impact upon

her rates compare chances of her election. how do you think that will work in the future speak with one of the things we learned about latino voters is that there sophisticated electorates. they closely follow candidates and they follow campaigns that they're willing to cross party lines, and they are willing to vote not just on, they're willing to support non-hispanic candidates, this includes hispanic candidates debating on the circumstances of an issue. in this case the issue of immigration has risen up, and i think latino voters in nevada listen very careful to share and engels positioned about how she's using immigration with a television ad. i think they will respond, respond, november 2. us last country . . .

i don't necessarily agree with what pundits are saying. we're listening to what voters are saying. knowing their engagements in this issue, we think these letters actually are very engaging this election. that they have a high propensity to vote. our polls show 65.indicated they were very likely to vote come november 2 and that was in june. so as the election season has heated up, as issues have become more prominent, we expect their thusme to have risen and we not

only reach that, we will pass it. >> are there issues other than immigration that will bring hispanics to polls? e foreclosures, the high unemployment rates. the economy was the second most important issue in our poll and many oh polls suggest it was up there with immigration. we think latinos are looking at both of these issues very closely. immigration and how that issue's being used by candidates and campaigns and also wanting to make sure this country gets on the track where latinos can you survive this recession. suzanne. >> i have two questions. one, each though you see -- even though you see an increase in numbers, the population is growing. so i'm wondering whether you're expecting an actual increase in the turnout rate which has been stuck around 30% of eligible

voters in the hispanic population. and then i also wanted to ask, i realize that there's a lot of work going on and there are some people saying that things are kind of turning around in terms of democrats coming out to vote, but it sunt -- doesn't seem like the lack of movement on immigration which was a, as we were told before, an issue that drove hispanics to the polls. so it seems almost illogical to think hispanics are going to turn out in a big way if nothing happened on immigration. so can you just kind of -- the. >> sure. in 2006 you prepare apples to pap les. the last midterm election it was 5.5 million latinos that voted, 6.5 million is what we project. we think that's a significant increase, and i think we're on track to continue increasing the participation of latinos. thousand, the issue of immigration, you know, let me share with you a story about how closely i believe latino voters

are following in this issue. in 2009 we held our national conference in los angeles. it was in late june. in fact, it started on june 24th. that day i walked into the ballroom for our luncheon to make sure everything was set, and the employees were there setting the tables. they took me aside, and they wanted to speak with me about what was happening in the white house that day. if you recall on january 24th, 2009, the president held a meeting with leaders of both the senate and the house of both political parties to discuss immigration reform. and here i was being taken aside by workers who wanted to know what was happening in the white house at that moment. that's how closely latinos are following this issue of immigration. so i think they are pretty sophisticated. they know what has happened, what has not happened, why has it not happened, what is needed for it to move forward, and i think the message that we all have been communicating to our

community that, yes, it's time for our voices to be heard, that this is a long-term objective and can only be achieved if latino voice continues to be heard in election after election. and just yesterday it came to my attention that someone was running an ad in nevada encouraging latinos not to vote in this election over the issue of immigration reform. now, there's nothing more cynical than to encourage somebody not to vote. it hearkens back to the calls of those that suggested that latinos should boycott the census. we know they rejected the call to boycott the census because latinos understand there is no point to nonparticipation. as this election approaches, i think latinos will continue to understand that the only way to achieve our policy object i haves is to participate -- objectives is to participate in the process. >> thank you. frank scherr rah with america's

voice. just wondering if you could comment on the use of spanish-language advertising by candidates and also why don't party use it? is i mean, i was -- it seems striking that in california democrats are using immigration as an issue to contrast with their opponents but, say, in florida it doesn't seem like the democratic candidates are. i'm not sure what's happening in nevada. i'm just wondering, that's one question -- >> will well, in nevada it's a big issue between angle and reid. >> right, right. so i'm interested in your comments on the use of spanish-language advertising by candidates and parties. i'm also interested in whether this republican strategy of having latino candidates who also espouse, somewhat, conservative opinions on immigration, how does that cross-pressure latino voters, and does it trump issues? >> well, the spanish-language

medium, i think that's a recognition that the electorate has an increasingly large share of naturalized citizens who consume through information through spanish-language media. one of the things we know about naturalized latino citizens is they have a higher propensity to vote than native-born latino citizens. they're more likely to register to vote, to be following the news, and if you follow spanish-language media's coverage of issues important to la latino voters, it actually occupies much more time on the daily news than it does on the english-language media. so, in fact, the spanish-language-consuming electorate is probably much more many tune with politics and policies than the english-language portion of the electorate. as far as latino candidates espousing anti-immigrant views, one of the things we know about latino voters is, one, they're willing to cross party lines if they don't believe that the party -- that the candidate of their party is on their side.

and sometimes they're willing to abandon a latino candidate if they don't agree with that latino candidate as well. case in point, the recall election of gray davis. when gray davis was recalled, arnold start negativer received -- schwarzenegger received the largest vote over cruz's candidacy. clearly, they saw it was not a change from gray davis' candidacy. so politics for change trumped ethnicity. >> hi, becky of the world journal. are you going to the white house today, and what kind of message you like to pass only to the white house? and do you think it will make a difference on the immigration reform, and also could you comment or elaborate on harry reid's campaign in nevada and how important nevada latinos'

vote will be for harry reid's election. >> i personally won't be at the white house today. so my message isn't going to be delivered in the person. i think our message is going to be delivered by what you're covering here today, but more importantly i think the message to the white house and to the congress will be delivered by latino voters on november 2nd. now, with respect to the race in nevada, it's a very tight race between sharron angle and senator harry reid, and it's exactly in a race that is that competitive where the latino vote makes the most difference. so in nevada where more than 12% of all registered voters are latinos, latinos are poised to disease the outcome of that senate -- decide the outcome of that senate race. >> [inaudible] >> they're being mobilized not just by our organization, but by organizations across the country. in fact, in the 25 years that i've been involved in latino

mobilization on issues and elections, this is the one midterm election where i have seen the most activity to mobilize latino voters. i think that is for a number of reasons. one, there are resources being driven into both c3 and c4 campaigns. all of our activity is under a c3 banner, nonpartisan, but the researches that we've received, for example, have enabled us to reach out to a quarter million la latino low-propensity voters. that's happening in arizona, nevada, texas, florida, certainly in california and in new york and illinois. layer on that a national media campaign that we have in conjunction with univision where across the country latinos who consume their information with the spanish-language media are receiving a consistent message about the importance of participation. they received it to motivate them to become citizens in 2007, to participate in the census earlier this year, they're

receiving that message now to vote on november 2 around. 2nd. yes, sir. >> arturo, what's your optimism about the increasing chance of more latino participation in november when we're seeing seven different polls that show that latinos are really not paying a lot of attention to the election and that they're really not very interested? in general, latinos eligible to vote are not following the issues right now. >> i don't believe that poll. i think the poll you may be referring to is the one conducted by the pew his -- hispanic center. as compared to ore polls -- other polls, my understanding is it was you you conducted over a, and it was a random survey of 1300 latinos. and of that sample they identified about 600 as having registered to vote.

now, what we know about polls, when people are asked if they're registered to vote, people don't report that. that poll itself has some weaknesses about trying to measure the pulse of a latino electorate. you compare that to other polls being conducted, random polls of latinos on voter registration rolls, so these aren't people who are overreporting that they're registered or not, these are people who truly are registered, and it's those polls that show social it's an engaged electorate. we're doing everything we can to beat the projection of 6.5 million latinos note societying on -- voting on november 2nd. >> given the toxic environment in arizona and given a very close race that wasn't supposed to be for representative a wiewl -- are you concerned about voter intimidation, voter suppression, and what do you see to counteract that potential?

>> absolutely. well, the environment isn't just toxic this arizona. unfortunately, the environment's toxic across the country on this issue of immigration, and the congressman's competitive race which i don't believe is that competitive but certainly he's being challenged is an indication of that. there are -- [inaudible] the commercial that i referred to earlier actively encouraging la latinos to stay home is an effort to suppress the latino vote. we also will do everything we can to help insure latinos have free access to the franchise. on election day we will be having toll-free hotlines that will be answered across the country, and we will have attorneys at the ready so that any latino voters who when they go to the polls are turned away, are told they're not registered to vote, are not given a provisional ballot, they can call our toll-free hotline at 888-vey-vota.

888-vey-vota, they can call that number on november 2nd, report the problem, we will get in contact with attorneys, we will make sure everybody has the right to vote on november 2nd and that no one is denied this basic right. >> hi. my name's kevin, and i'm with the raven group. my question is, do you have nine states listed here detail latinos share the popular vote. ten to twenty years from now what other states do you see having significant portion of the latino electorate? >> right. the reason that we only have nine states there is because of the sampling that the census bureau does to be able to report on voter turnout. that certainly is going to change once we see the results of the 2010 census which will be due out end of this year. future states where we think we'll be able to monitor latino performance performance will be states in the south. in fact, i think the story of the 2010 census will be the rise

of the latino south. states like north carolina, arkansas, tennessee all with significant latino populations large enough to be able to have an impact on statewide elections. keep an eye on washington, keep an eye out on states in the midwest like kansas and arkansas also with large and growing latino populations. okay. well, thank you for joining us this morning, and don't forget to vote november 2nd. [applause]

>> c-span's local content vehicles are traveling the country as we look at some of the most closely contested house race leading up to this november's midterm election. >> i think the district race in louisiana is worth watching for the rest of the country because

there are only about four or five congressional districts in country in which a republican might lose his or her seat to a democrat. this was the only district in state that was held by a democrat and it is easily the most democratic district. it is only the state with a african-american majority. it appears tailor made for frederick richmond. he is determined to make a race of it. >> the communities here are faced with the everyday issues that we have, especially given our post katrina recovery and now the post oil spill recovery. the questions, where can my children play? do my children have good schools? are there needs of the elderly that we have not addressed? >> i was an attorney and a former -- very soft spoken.

not your typical republican. he is not as -- as most republicans out there. richmond is talking about the fact that he voted against health kir reform on the final vote, against bill for equal pay for women and against some other bills very important. that is going to be the issue. >> to fight for people who can't hire big time lobbyists. i get a chance to fight for people who -- i get a chance to fight for people in corporations. don't put profits first. put people first. >> rich summoned a state representative from the eastern part of the city. a leader in the legislative black caucus. a raising star in democrat circles.

richmond sent taxpayer noun a shady charity run by his girlfriend instead of helping the nothing new under richmond. he was fined for ethics violations. frederick richmond, in it for himself and not from us. >> it happened from an incident that occurred before hurricane katrina in the spring of 2005. the discipline didn't come down until after he ran against bill jefferson two years ago. so it seemed fresh in the minds of some voters. the actual incident is more than five years old. it is going to be used against him. it is definitely going to be an issue. i don't know how much of a difference it is going to make.

i think the bigger issue in this race is like everywhere else in america, is going to be barack obama, but this is a distribute in which barack obama will play very well. >> the city of new orleans has had its trials, but you have also had great champions fighting through sea of tough times. frederick richmond is one of those champions. he has always been there making a difference for the community. new orleans needs cedric richmond in congress. i hope you will give him your vote. >> the key for both candidates once again, will be turnout. if we get a turnout that is proportionate, regardless of the overall turnout is 50% or 90%, if it is proportionate among

black and white voters, richmond should win this race. the numbers just favor him. 2/3 of our area being democrat. so the race sets up well for richmond, but there are some wild cards out there, like turnout and if you're his opponent, you want to turn out as many white votes as you can. >> c-span's mobile content vehicles are traveling the country, visiting communities and congressional districts as we look at some of the most closely contesteded house races leading up to this november's midterm elections. for more visit our website