we recognize the validity of what is behind your question. i'd really appreciate what the foreign minister just said. our public diplomacy, to use the pet phrase, simply did not exist when this administration took over. >> we are bringing you the illinois governor's this evening and welcome to tonight's debate. this debate is produced in cooperation with the league of

women voters of illinois and the illinois broadcasters' association. joining me in questioning the charleses are abc7's thomas, rebecca sanchez, and andy shaw. each candidate will have an opening statement of one minute. we begin with mr. brady. >> my wife nancy and i built a small business. i am running for government -- for governor because of i am concerned about my children and yours. for the last eight years of deficit spending, corruption, and back-room deals -- our government is broke. governor klan has lost over 200,000 jobs -- governor quinn has lost over 200,000 jobs.

i want to cut spending and taxes and create private-sector jobs. my opponent's plan is to raise your taxes and create bigger government. governor, you used to "jfk saying cutting taxes help hard- working families. what happened? illinois and these a leader. pat quinn has proven he is not up to the job. as your next governor, i will put the people bought the interest in front of the insider's address. >> thank you, mr. brady. mr. quinn. >> i am feel honored to be the state of illinois. i was sworn in during a tough time in our state's history. i brought honesty to the governor's of this. we have enacted very strong ethical standards and we enforce the standards every day. that is the best way to have jobs in illinois -- have an honest governor who puts the

people first. just today we were able to bring jobs to our state. 250 jobs making railroad cars. yesterday, a company called groupon now has 900 jobs in our state. that gave us the incentive to grow even more jobs -- 250 jobs. i understand what jobs are all about. we have to recover our economy. we inherited a terrible recession from george bush. we are on the comeback trail. >> the first question goes to mr. brady. >> senator brady, on the subject of balancing the state budget budget, the freezes are a dime on the dollar and 10% on -- across the board has been described as your approach to spending cuts. will you explain to the people of illinois white you have not

proposed a line by line adjusted balanced budget so we can see before the election how you would prioritize the spending of our tax dollars? >> governor klan has increased spending by 8 $3 billion. -- governor klan has increase spending by $3 billion. -- governor quinn has increased spending by $3 billion. we have a government we can no longer afford. degette zero years ago he was given an opportunity to rein in state spending. this year, unprecedented opportunity. he failed to do so. i am calling for a business audit completed by the auditor general so we can make transparent where government spending is going. governor quinn comes up with a

new program every day in a secret way. i will bring transparency to the governor's office. >> we have cut our budget by $3 billion. that is more than any governor in the history of illinois. we have done it in a proper way, not a reckless way as indicated by my opponent. we have maintained our health care. we have maintained our education. we are taking care of our veterans. it is important to do that. if we have reduced the number of state employees by 1102. that is unheard of. the estimates are that $220 billion will be saved to the taxpayers of illinois by public pension reform. we have been able to reform our office space to reduce office space and save money for the taxpayers. i have a specific plan to cut the budget. if we are doing what is called "budgeting for results."

which get that passed in the legislature. my opponent, senator brady, but did against it. we are entering it to the taxpayers. >> why have you not taken the same animation that was andilable to governor whquinn given us a budget of your own so we can see what your priorities are? >> the information is not available. he just talked about public safety. the governor is in -- it is not in the behest of public safety when you release inmates earlier -- release inmates early. no state government will be asked to reconcile our spending. i will not punish one area or another. this last year, governor quinn cut $1 billion in classroom spending while leaving their bureaucracy in tacked on the state board of education. he's focused on law-enforcement

-- cutting redistribution to local units of government and cutting state police. his record on public safety is abysmal. >> our budget this year increased education. we want to make sure we invest in our children. i do not want to lose a generation of children in illinois. my opponent was to cut the education budget by $1.26 billion. he would fire 20,000 teachers in our state. it will cut scholarships for students who want to go to college by tens of thousands. if that is a reckless way to go. i believe in cutting the budget, but doing it in a proper way that maintains their education. if with respect to public safety, my on is hardly one to talk about that. he voted against barring spouse abusers and child abusers from being able to have guns. i believe we ought to bar this kind of people from having guns whatsoever. >> mrs. sanchez, your first

question goes to mr. quinn? >> how do you hold line items accountable and hal or the results driven? >> the center led the effort to center the legislature and a landmark budget reform. it requires us to look at every single line item of our state budget and determine whether or not it is producing results. it is not, that money will not be there the following year. that is a systematic way to cut the budget on an annual basis. i supported that. my opponent voted against it. my opponent is not willing to cut the budget. i think i have shown my results and accomplishments in office. i have been able to cut the budget by more than any governor in illinois history. i cut my own pay and that of the salaries of might staff members. i also have made sure that we reform our public pension system. my opponent voted to keep his

pay the same. i do not think that is a very good way to help the economy and government. this governor believes in saving government by cutting his own plate. that is the way to go. >> while we do in the private sector is what we need to adopt. politicians cannot follow through on it. he talks about cutting pay, but gives secret pay raises to his inner circle staff. we cannot make payments to our human service providers and health care survivors. we cannot afford the secret programs anymore and excessive spending. we need to deal with budgeting on a line item basis and 80 budget basis. we need to ensure that we a public safety. we take care of our most adorable. we balance the resources we have for a sound education system. governor quinn failed on these issues.

he took the insider's interest and said the people's answers. we will take the high road and support the people, not the insiders. >> follow-up? >> governor, how do you hold him accountable? what is the criteria to give someone a line item? or the results driven? >> i do not think we should do that. we need to make sure that money that taxpayers put into the government are spent in a proper way. that is what we believe in education. when we invest in education, we are helping our state for tomorrow. we believe in our community colleges. we have 1 million students in our community colleges. we want to make sure they deliver results for all of this just like our four year universities. it is important to have that investment. but the government needs to make sure we do have education. my opponent was to cut the

education budget in illinois and raise local property taxes. he said so at the state fair. there would be a natural rise in property taxes in illinois. i am dead set against that. that is the wrong way to go. >> you should tell the truth. i never talked about raising property taxes and you know it. the question was about line item budgeting and zero budgeting. you could balance the budget, but you failed to do so. he left illinois with record deficits and debt. he left us with the backlog of unpaid bills over $6 billion. we need a governor who has the discipline to stand up for the people's interest and not the special insider's interest. as governor of the state, i will stand up for the people of

illinois. >> center brady, you are opposed to abortion rights, gay rights, gun control, and a primitive action. a lot of people who do believe we need a change in springfield who would like to see republicans in a leadership position are afraid to vote for you because they are afraid that the that you will destroy a lot of the fabric they believe in. what you tell those people? >> i am proud of my beliefs. unlike the governor, i am not using them to divide illinois. the governor has used social issues to divide illinois to out this campaign. i want to bring the people together by solving the economic and fiscal crisis. we have lost over 26,000 jobs in the last two months. he talks about bringing jobs to illinois, but fails to recognize when you lose more jobs than you create it hurts hardworking illinois families. our agenda is about reducing

taxes, balancing our budget, creating jobs, a family -- a friendly environment for illinois families. the governor has used social issues to divide illinois. i will use my platform and this office to bring economic viability back to our state. >> i am pro-business and pro people. if you are pro people you have to understand that there are fundamental rights that people have. with respect to the issue of choice, i am pro-choice. my opponent wants a constitutional amendment to ban abortion even in the case of rape or incest. the other night he sponsored legislation and voted to allow employers to fire gay people from their job just because they are gay. that is plain wrong. my opponent also is against banning assault weapons. assault weapons that are used to kill police officers and young people on the street.

this is wrong. i believe we need a governor who will stand up for common sense gun-control. finally on standing up for people, you have to have a governor with a heart. i understand that. it is important to come to the african-american community and make sure they had the opportunity to evaluate the candidates. my opponent has missed five straight debates including the urban league and the naacp. he does not show up. i show up everywhere. i am accountable. you have to have a governor like that. >> a lot? >> let me see if i can get an actual answer to the question, why do you say to people who are afraid he will roll back existing rights when it comes to choice, the guns, a primitive action, and gays? there is a concern that your agenda is a threat to all of the things they have worked part 4. >> the federal courts have ruled in on the issue of

abortion. i believe in the parent's right to be notified. i support the second amendment. these issues should not be used to divide illinois. many people agree with me on these issues. if we need a governor who will focus on the crisis at hand -- creating jobs. the governor is right. the is the jobs governor. the is the governor -- he is the jobs governor far missouri, kentucky, and wisconsin. if you turned your back on the minority communities. you turn your backs on minority communities when it came to education. he but the special interest in front of the people's interest. we need a governor who will support the people's interest. >> e thank you, mr. brady. >> all like to address this question to both of you. there appears to be a dichotomy about the issue of life.

you do not want to reinstitute the at executions in illinois for fear of taking an asset live, yet you oppose abortion. your opponent of book -- had the square that issue about life? >> i believe that the death penalty should be used in heinous circumstances. we all know there were 13 instances where there were innocent people on death row and they were going to be put to death or wrongly. we had to reform our death penalty law in illinois. fundamental reform was enacted. the moratorium was put in to make sure those reforms were carried out in practice. i think the moratorium should continue. it is the best way to protect the public interest. i also think we need to ban assault weapons. the number one fear of children today in too many cities is a fear of being shot. we need a governor who understands that we need to

protect children and live by banning assault weapons and also keeping child abusers and domestic spouse abusers from having guns. i think that is part of fighting for life as well. that is what i believe in. i am the governor of allen boyd. i have to take responsibility to preserve and protect the people. i have done that by standing up for law enforcement officers, veterans, firefighters, and military families. i visited with a mother who lost her son in afghanistan. we honor his life and mourn his loss. >> mr. brady, oppose abortion and support the death penalty. is that a consistent position? >> i believe it is. i do not believe that heinous criminals put on death row who had been convicted and sentenced to capital punishment deserve protection. governor quinn was to

continue a moratorium that does not make sense to me. but governor's lee, they do not plot. lead, they do not punt. a governor who leads on this issue will lead illinois. we will not continue early release programs where violent offenders released early on the streets are putting our citizens at risk. >> as a followup, you both mentioned jobs. he said the state has lost 200,000 jobs since the governor took over. he says will lead the midwest in job growth. >> the governor does not take

into account the loss of jobs. he boasts about this job or that, but over all illinois has lost more jobs -- 200,000 jobs at the expense of hard-working illinois families. in the last two months we lost 26,000 jobs. 35 other states in this nation created more jobs than they lost in the last two zero months. we are in the unenviable position of being a eight states in a recession. we need work, reform, medical malpractice reform, -- he continues to threaten to increase taxes on families and businesses killing jobs. we need a governor who will stand up for businesses. i will do that, creating jobs. >> daniel patrick moynihan said one time that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, not everyone is entitled to their own facts.

our state for eight straight months has had reduced unemployment. we have been able to reduce the number of people who are unemployed. we have a long way to go. i inherited the worst recession in our lifetime from george bush. i did not support george bush for president. my opponent did. he was a supporter of george bush's failed economic policies. i do not want to see that come to the state of illinois. we have brought from wisconsin to ellen like a company that is making railroad cars for the beat -- from wisconsin to illinois a company that is making railroad cars. we have a company that grew from eight jobs in 2008 to 100 jobs. >> your pricing goes to mr. brady first. >> you had been a member of the illinois house or the illinois

senate for the past 17 years. can you cite for the voters watching your three most important legislative accomplishments during that time? i would like to hear about bills in which you took the lead in sponsorship. >> i care deeply about education, which is why in 1995 when the federal rules on teacher's health insurance prohibited us from using pension forms would have left every retired teacher without health insurance. i led the charge to sponsor the legislation and created the first program where retired teachers would have health insurance. i also took the lead in deregulating banks and insurers. you could no longer have a prohibition on banks and insurers. it brought competition and gave consumers and opportunity. i took the lead on that role as well. i also worked hard to support

my community college by helping find it the community college. fund that community college. you can't take the lead on some issues, you can support others. inupported jessica's all illinois. the democratic controlled senate to the bill away from me, but i am proud that i initiated the law to protect the most horrible. >> i have been around a while. center brady has been in springfield a lot longer than i have. i believe i recall. we got it on the ballot this year. center brady takes a lot of money from the utility companies. i believe in fighting for consumers. i believe in fighting the insurance companies when they are unfair.

the old issue of making sure we have a good budget, we were able to pass a legislative -- legislation to protect funds. last year we created the job recovery act. we invested in roads, safe bridges, and invested in schools. we built new schools in illinois to help education. that is what it is all about when you come to accomplishments. ford motor co. came to our state with 1200 new manufacturing jobs. they did not go to indiana. they came to illinois because of our workers. we have a well educated workers. that is what governor's do. >> follow-up? >> during your 19 months in office as governor and you're dealing with the legislature

tried to resolve the budget, why should illinois voters believe that during a full term you'd be in more effective than you had been during these past months? >> we have the record of cutting the budget in a prudent way. we are not going to harm our education, our health care, for our programs for veterans. i understood that. i have common sense. my opponent was to increase the budget deficit. i stand against that type of nonsense. i think it is important to have a governor who is consistent, who tells the legislature in plain language that we have to invest in our schools. that is the best investment we can make today and in deep future. if my opponent wants to cut education and raise property taxes. that is the wrong way to go in illinois. we have to invest in human beings. we can have a stronger economy,

more teachers you are accountable, making sure our students are the best in the whole world. >> response? >> under the first six years we saw no leadership. we have a $13 billion deficit. the governor has failed to provide the same leadership of the last two months. if the viewers are happy with the way illinois is going, he let pat quinn. it's the what in illinois that looks more like an indiana or a tennessee, a state that can turn the page, we need a new governor in springfield. he has had a chance to lead. as governor, i will lead from the governor's office. we will bring reform and jobs to illinois families. >> a percentage of the state budget goes to the governor's discretionary budget.

i would like to know how did you spend that 13%? >> we have transparency and openness like never before in illinois. we enacted a stronger freedom of information act that i signed. and what to thank our attorney general who worked with me on that to get the job done for the public. she is a believer in openness for the public. we also understand that when people are interested in a board or commission, it should be on line. we put everything imaginable on line. we have electronic democracy on line. people can nominate themselves. they can go online and do exactly that. we make sure we file information with the controller. we have the new law called the "budgeting for out, all for results appear "everything has to be put before the taxpayer so they concede that.

the budgeting for results law. he opposed it. he opposed reducing his own play. i reduced my own pay. i understand why we are in tough times the governor has to reduce his pay. i think it is important for senator ready to do the same. >> the question was what did you do with the 13% discretionary funding. if you fail to answer the question. that is why we need an audit. this is a house of cards. governor quinn has failed to be transparent. the people of illinois has to pay for it. if we need a governor to present the facts to the people of illinois. his failure and an ability to do so has put us in a bad position of not knowing what our finances are. it is important that we bring

an altar in to audit the misspending of the -- bring an auditor in to audit the misspending of the current administration. we have racked up a record $13 billion deficit. i will conduct the audit. i will be transparent to the people of illinois. >> governor, you did not answer that question. how would you spend it? >> the money -- i lay out a specific budget each year, crystal clear, and give a blueprint of how the money is spent. i maintain our spending for education and basic health care. i maintain our spending for public safety and for our veterans. my opponent was to cut the department of veterans affairs by millions of dollars. our country has had two wars. we have soldiers coming home from iraq and afghanistan.

we have to make sure we have programs for them. i have cut the budget by $3 billion. that is more than any governor in illinois history. i did it in a prudent way of by eliminating wasteful spending, finding fraud -- i have done this. i think it is important to have a governor who does this, not eight wronged and restless -- reckless the governor. >> it does not matter how many times you say you have spent cutting -- how many times you say you have cut $3 billion. it is not true. i will not attack any one area of state spending. in his last budget, he taxed classroom spending by over $1 billion and failed to address reductions in the state board of education. he slashed public safety. as governor i will balance the

budget in a brawl that way. i will make every area of state government focus on how they can spend. do not put words in my mouth, governor. i never said i was/veterans affairs. there is plenty of room to cut spending and leaves our veterans appears intact. >> senator brady, in 1979 when you were a teenager, the chicago board of education collapse financially and governor jim thompson convened a summit on a cold day in january and brought in all the stakeholders. they spent a week in that manchin and when they came out they had a plan to put the board of education back together. i am wondering if you do not think we need a similar approach so that a day after inauguration

you sit down with all the stakeholders and deal with the 30 billion, -- the $30 billion, the $6 billion because it will not get fixed with plans on paper. you have a democratic legislature, unions, and lobbyists -- should they not be in a broom for a week and have the solution? >> absolutely. governor quinn has had six years to do that and he has dropped the ball. we will lay the facts on the line and bring these stakeholders to the table to solve the state budget fiscal prices. it takes leadership. it takes someone willing to stand up for the people's interest. i would give you an example. we did this in a bipartisan way when it came to mccormick place. we sat down and came up with a solution only to have been vetoed by governor quinn because

he was more interested in his campaign and special interests. i will work with these stakeholders to bring out real resolutions. >> i believe in taking on special interest. i have done it all my life. but the selling started the citizens utility board. we have also taken on the insurance companies. center brady actually voted against the bill that would have let new mothers stay in the hospital for more than 24 hours. he wanted to kick them out of the hospitals are like the insurance companies did after one day's stay. i have stood up for the public interest of my life. i understand the importance of jobs. that is why we held for the last eight months declining unemployment. we have a governor who wears carefully with business. that is how we got for it to come here at with 1200 -- how we

got ford to come here with 1200 new jobs. >> follow-up? >> you did not say whether you would convene this kind of meeting and meet them in a mansion. bill in the light has 7000 units of government. -- illinois has 7000 units of government. what is your plan to systematically attach this over abundance of government in the interest of inefficiency and streamlining? >> i was the commissioner of the largest property tax appeal agency in this whole state. we gave property tax relief to thousands of homeowners, businesses, and farmers all over illinois. it is important to cut the units of government. there is a lot of duplication. i think we have to fight and

lower property taxes. my opponent wants to cut state support for education by over $1 billion. our state constitution says that the state of illinois is the primary responsibility for funding our schools. if the state does not fund the schools, property taxes go through the roof. center brady wants to raise your property taxes. -- senator brady wants to raise your property taxes. >> governor, it was you who introduced a bill to cut education funding by over $1 billion. if you are right. we need to address this issue. we have a local referendums, but we have failed to provide the resources necessary to get the job done. consolidation ultimately cost money we do not have. i believe it is a good investment for the state to provide resources in the short term to better afford consolidation.

we also need to provide for more efficiency and effectiveness in the operation. >> if you have a commercial running now that says senator brady voted of fort the government to seize private land to benefit his business. >> it was on the front page of the sunday paper. when he was state senator, senator brady on three separate occasions -- not one, but three separate occasions voted on bills that directly affect his interest. we do not need a governor of illinois like the last two to is ethically challenged. -- who is ethically challenged. i call for the records -- resignation and the impeachment of rod voinovich. -- rod blood voinovich -- rod

blagovitch. he is only given a glimpse of his income tax return. i have done that all my life everyday. we disclose our tax returns. they are available to the public. my running mate disclosed her income-tax returns. this is not healthy for the people. >> ethically challenged, governor? you told us four years ago that rod was an honest man and a man of integrity. either you were asleep at the will were more interested in your reelection that the people's interest. what about committing the next governor to not being able to fix the state's resources? the record is clear. there is no conflict of interest in these pieces of legislation. i am above that.

as governor i will not allow for it. quite a quick follow up on these issues. he says there were three boats that were ethical issues, you say there were not. can you tell us what the votes were? >> one dealt with a decision that dealt with private property rights. the first vote dealt with then issue before i had a key interest in a piece of property. the last vote dealt with an issue that did not include our property. >> you do not accept that, governor? >> i do not think anybody except sit. the tribune laid it out. there were three boats that involved senator brady's real- estate company. that is something a governor should ever do -- it never have conflicts of interest. you cannot have private business interests affecting

your judgment. i have never had these kinds of conflicts of interest. it is important for the people of illinois to know ahead of time. senator brady has not given us on its financial statements about his business. i think it is important that the people of illinois has a governor who works all the time for them. i stood up to george ryan. senator brady supported him in 1994 as secretary of state. he supported him in 1998 when he ran for governor. i think it is is very important to have a governor -- i think it is very important to have a governor with fortitude. senator brady is not telling us the truth today about his all conflicts of interest. george ryan got into trouble by using his position to help himself financially.

we cannot have a governor like that. we cannot have jobs in illinois if businesses think there is a conflict of interest. >> out of time. thank you. the next question goes to mr. brady. >> what this short position for set asides for minority and women enterprises? do you believe they are necessary and would you actively support and enforce such rules? >> i think those are good policies to help minority-owned businesses elevate and employ people. we have to maintain the opportunity for minority-owned businesses to grow. we cannot just of large business is growing. the fundamental foundation of illinois' economy is start-up businesses. i understand the importance of that. it is important to assist minority businesses.

>> i believe in set-aside. i campaigned for them. i made it possible for many minority businesses to get contracts in state government. we work on that exclusively. we passed a job recovery bill last year. i also believe in going to the urban league and the naacp and other forms in minority neighborhoods across our state. senator brady does not show up. showing up is part of being accountable. as governor i have to answer all questions. i understand the importance of the minimum wage in illinois. i helped raise the minimum wage. my opponent voted against raising the minimum wage, now he was to cut minimum wage and take $2,000 out of the pockets of ordinary, everyday people who are at minimum wage. that is a bad way to go to get

our state back on track. he also wants to end the "but illinois to work." firing these people is the wrong way to go. we need a governor who has common sense, who fights for ordinary people. >> follow up? >> senator brady, can you respond to the governor's charge? >> showing up, governor, means standing up for support for wal- mart and a big boxes in a minority communities. you were awol. you were with the special interest once again, the governor. it is also standing up for

education part. -- standing up for education. he single-handedly killed a bill by siding with the special interests instead of the students and the people. we need a governor who will stand for the people of illinois. the governor has been awol when it comes to job creation in the minority communities and the educational interests of the students in some of the worst performing districts in the state. >> there is no secret why senator brady got and f in affirmative-action. all over our state, i want to make sure everyone has a good job. that is why i get up every day at work night and day on behalf of economic development for our state. we have a recovering economy from what george bush gave us. 8 million lost jobs in america.

i did not support george bush. i inherited this recession. senator brady supported george bush. he was to bring this policies to our state. he was to deregulate banks and give tax breaks to special interests. that is what george bush did. that is why our economy went into a ditch in america. i want to work with businesses on job creation initiatives. "put illinois to work" is a great program. it takes people and puts them on a job so they can support their family. >> out of time. thank you. rebecca sanchez, your question goes to mr. brady. >> i have appointed hispanic citizens of our state to many

important positions. i appointed the head of our human relations commission, who happens to be hispanic. we have a great movement in our education. 20% of the children in illinois is a good to school happen to be hispanic children. one thing i had done related to that is make sure that we built schools. we announced the building of more building and rebuilding of schools. that is important for our hispanic children. we had the head of the state board of education. he is someone i trust. he is a person who believes very strongly in education, as i do. another thing i think is

important, i honor the soldiers in illinois who have fought for our country. i went to a high school where three young hispanic marines gave their lives for our country. we worked with the students there to make sure we honored them. >> absolutely. i believe that a pretty administration needs to be representative of the population of illinois. we have been in touch with a number of hispanic leaders the wealthiest -- due out the chicago area and the rest of the state. it is all of illinois. it is not just the hispanics. a brady administration will be representative of the interest of the state of illinois. we be good leaders in each community in my administration. i will make sure that we are represented assets. >> while the leaders that you are talking about in the

hispanic community, who are you talking about people such as two former allies of the former governor? >> i am not sure who you are speaking of? >> i know that you had a fund- raiser that was held by two former allies. it seems contradictory for you to do that when you are talking about starting fresh and transparency. i do not think any of his former allies would fall under that category. >> i am not sure if you are speaking of? >> they have been involved. they hosted a fund-raiser to help encourage support within

the latino chamber of commerce and the various chambers of commerce in the latino community. i believe they are representative of the edges. they are good people who believe in their community and their state. i look forward to their guidance to bring a well represented government to illinois. >> one of those people is the deputy governor to the former governor who was impeached and removed. i let him go from the staff. obviously he is always senator brady. it is important that we help all people in illinois, but hispanic citizens in particular. i am against the arizona law. it is a bad law did it will harm our country in my opinion. i am very glad the united states government is suing to reject that law. i stand up and speak out for

immigration reform and speak against anything involving racial profiling. i went to a high school where three young marines gave their lives for our country. they were all hispanic. i do know what their families to have to prove their citizenship. they have done it already. >> your question is to mr. brady. >> the ticking time bomb in illinois is the unfunded pension liability of about $80 million. there was an element of reform, but it only affects the future employees. it does not change the situation for existing state employees, both actuarial sent experts believe that significant changes have to be made in the pensions and the health-care benefits going forward of current employees. what would you do? the last step was like a band- aid on a hemorrhage? >> if you are absolutely right.

our pension system has been doubly funded. that is too long. people of illinois are saddled with nearly $8 billion deficit in the pension system. i believe we have to protect people who have paid into the pension system. it is not their fault that the previous of governors and did not pay into it. we have to realize we cannot continue the program as it has been. we need to adopt measures that will prospectively moved state employees into a similar pension business -- defined contributions. >> this is obviously ridiculous because senator brady has been in office 17 years serving under republican governors, supporting them as they failed to popular

pay the pensions of to the people of illinois. i am the first governor ever to take this issue on. it is a difficult issue. this year we passed a reform law that george will said was the most far reaching public pension reform ever adopted by any state ever in the united states. i cite that law. it will save taxpayers in illinois to under $20 billion over the next generation. senator brady failed to act on this. he helped create the problem and now he is pointing fingers at me. it is important to have a governor who tackles tough issues. i do. it is not easy. all the time she did not make a lot of friends doing it in politics, but sometimes you have to do what is right for the people. when i took the oath of office in january of last year, i said i would do everything i could to make sure allen boyd got back on track.

i have done my very best. -- make sure illinois got back on track. i have done my very best. >> please tell the audience of one single thing you will do or promote to fight for that would reduce the influence of money on elections in illinois. >> i believe then petition and referendum. i was a staff politician. we did it by petition and a referendum. i believe in using that power to reduce the size of the legislature. we did that in 1980. in answer to the question, i think the best way to strengthen the people of illinois is to have an ethics initiative or the people at the local and state level can propose campaign finance reform and other ethics

reform directly by petition and vote on them by referendum, going around the legislature and enacting them directly. i fought for that. it is the best way to go. >> governor, you did not even have the backbone to demand a vote on your own commission's recommendation. you back into the corner and were left with nothing. three most important things -- term limits, contribution limits, and legislative districts john -- legislative districts drawn by a computer. math does not lie. during your time as governor, we increase the unfunded liability by $35 billion. you fail to meet the obligation. in 1995, republicans passed reform funding that you ignored. >> gentleman, as we get near the final questions, i want to talk

about financing and how we get out of this whole. mr. quinn you said an increase in the income tax was necessary. the stand by that position? >> i believe in a surcharge for education. the best way to have jobs today and in the future is to make sure we invest in our school. my opponent was to cut education funding by $1.26 billion. that will put the burden on local property taxes. they will skyrocket. he is for raising taxes all right, property taxes. there is more money in property taxes than is paid in income tax and sales tax together. we should have a fair revenue system based on ability to pay. the property tax system is not based on ability to pay. you pay based on a good year or whether you have an income or not. i do not think we should use property taxes as a key way to

find the most important part of the most -- fifund important part of our lives, educating our children. >> mr. brady, are you willing to take the no new taxes' pledge? >> i have made it very clear -- no new taxes. there is no more dangerous place to be between governor quinn and a tax hike. he is a career insider politician, dating back to the walker years. then onto the property tax appeals board. he said -- then onto the treasury's office. mr. recently as a partner with the former governor. we do not the career politicians. we need people who will represent the people's *, not

the special interests. >> gentlemen, you may both be in the same boat. mr. quinn, he called mr. brady a millionaire who did not pay federal and come taxes. he says he was a victim of national economics. he says you have put the state in a whole. you say our state was the same as every other state facing the consequences of this economy. >> governor quinn has said i did not pay income taxes. i have six years of tax returns that show i'd paid a fair amount of and taxes over the six years. governor quinn, the proof is in a pudding. he has racked up a $13 billion

budget deficit because he has not had the will to redefine state budget at a level we can afford. last week at the urban institute issued a statement saying he was the worst governor when it comes to finding him and services. lambasting by the coalition against sexual violence and domestic violence. we need a governor who will balance our budget so local agencies will that what they can receive and work to provide services within those means. >> indiana has a higher unemployment rate than our state of illinois periods we have had month after month of declining unemployment. we have a long way to go. boeing is taking jobs from missouri and bring into illinois.

the bottom line is you have to have a governor who has a heart. i pay income taxes. i do not want to cut the minimum wage like senator bill brady, a millionaire who does not pay any and contacts. he was to cut the minimum wage on the people who does pay income tax. they paid more than he does. that is not right. >> that brings us to the end of our questions. we now have closing statements. mr. brady, one minute please. >> thank you very much. illinois is at a crossroads. we are a state rich in opportunity and resources, but we need new leadership. leadership matters. governor quinn has run our state into the ground. record deficits in debt. $13 billion deficit. over 200,000 jobs lost. if you want to continue down the path of our taxes and deficits,

-- path of higher taxes and deficits, vote for him. >> i took the oath of office at the very tough time. as we reform our government, made it more open, cleaned it up, stabilize debt. we are better than when i took office. we have also approved our economy. george bush created a big mess in our economy. he inherited a good economy from president clinton and made it bad. we are creating more jobs than any other state in the midwest. it is important to have a governor who has a heart for every day people. >> thank you very much. we appreciate your time and efforts. this concludes our debate for the candidates of governor of illinois. we thank you for watching and urge you to vote. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> we are brigade candidate

debates each night on c-span. next, the debate for the race for florida governor. you are watching campaign 2010 political coverage on c-span. voters head to the polls in less than two weeks. follow the key races and candidates on the c-span network. archived debates on line at the c-span video library and on our politics page, candidate's twitter the deeds. follow c-span election coverage right to election day. our live debate coverage continues tomorrow night with the governor's race in massachusetts. that is live at 8:00 eastern. that is followed by the new mexico governor's debate.

that is live from albuquerque. you can watch both debates live on c-span and c-span.org. in florida, the candidates for governor met for their second debate earlier tonight. the current governor, charlie crist, is running for a year nets >> mr. scott is leading in the race by six percentage points. this is an hour. >> from the vehicle counts as a -- camp as of nova, a decision 2010, before you vote, presents the candidates for the office of governor of florida. >> welcome to our gubernatorial debate. tonight's event is being broadcast by a number of

stations across the state so we can reach as many voters as possible. the two candidates are democrats alex sink and republican rick scott. the candidates will each have one minute and 15 seconds to respond to questions, and they will be signaled by a clock that is located on the stage. we will allow canada on some occasions a 30-second rebuttal. our panel includes kelly dunne and adam smith with the st. petersburg times. we have asked the audience to hold its applause and the candidates to follow the guidelines present -- presented to them before this broadcast. the coin toss went to alex sink, and we begin with the question to you. we begin with jobs, the question most important to florida voters. you have proposed during hiring by a series of tax cuts and tax credits. your opponent is talking about cutting $6 billion and bring

government back to the size it was in 2004. where exactly are you going to cut spending, and how many jobs are you expecting to create? >> i want to think the viewers in the table in the audience and the sponsors of this very important debate so that it all over the state of florida can hear directly from their gubernatorial candidates. this is a very important election for our state. the whole reason i am running for governor is because i am bringing 26 years of business experience right here in the state of florida to address the critical economic challenges we have in our state today. very high unemployment, at two percentage points higher than the national average. we have to get our state headed in a different direction. i have put together a very specific plan almost 10 months ago. it is built around a small businesses. florida is not a state of lords

corporations. our state was built on entrepreneurs and people who started up small businesses. that is what i have spent my career doing. i am providing tax cut for businesses who agreed to hire more floridians. of i am also providing a plan for reviving our economy and diversifying its it by bringing industries into the state. i will be a very aggressive economic ambassador for our state. get to work, let's is your model and the basis of your campaign. you are proposing what it called a7-7-7 plan, but some state economists have said that if there is an economic recovery, no matter who is governor, the economy will actually generate more than 700,000 jobs in just four years. how do you respond to that? >> first of the bank -- like to thank the sponsors and the

audience for watching. it is my mom's 82nd birthday. maybe you have seen a few ads. our plan is seven steps to 70,000 jobs. that plan is on top of what normal growth would be. it says that basically we will get the state back to work by running a state like a business, watch how you spend every penny. i will put a freeze on regulations. i will be the job as governor. i will do what i have done in business. go out and figure out how to get people to build their businesses. i will cut the property tax rate by 19%. we will be the no. 1 state. i am sure alex and i will trade a lot of are, but i want to complement and commend her on one thing. our state budget is in a mess, and she, like i, and not going to take any state funding for our campaigns, which i think is a great thing.

>> if you are going to add 700,000 jobs on what the economic recovery would bring, we are talking about 1,700,000 jobs. there are currently 1 million floridians unemployed. >> my whole goal is to grow of the state. this should be the number-one state for job creation. no income tax. we are a right to work state. we have the beaches and the weather. look at the expansion of the panama canal. this should be the number-one state for job creation. it will take a governor that knows how to build private sector jobs. >> omayyad -- i might add that in looking at red -- rick scott glenn, jeb bush's own economic advisers have said it is flawed and cannot work. to go back to -- it would mean

cutting $18 billion out of the current budget. it is important to recognize that rick scott, my opponent, talks about creating 285,000 jobs, but the way he did it was, he was a corporate raider. he went and bought hospitals all around the country and shut many of them down, some of them right here in florida. that is how he built his business. >> our first question from the panel, adam smith. >> part of your plan is to cut the state work force by 5%. that would be at least 6000 jobs. is this the right time to put 6000 floridians on the unemployment line? >> my plan is seven steps to 700,000 jobs. part of it is to reduce the work force. if we reduced the workforce by% every year, that is $300 million.

we easily have 16% of attrition, so we will be able to do just through normal change. we will do what we can to keep everybody employed, but we have to get this money back into the hands of the taxpayers, the people who are worried about making sure they can make ends meet. the more we can do that, we will build their business. this country and state is built on people that want to build their businesses. war of the money we get back into their pockets -- more of the money, the more this economy will grow. my opponent is going to start attacking. we build a wonderful company. we took care of 100,000 patients a day. we had unbelievable patience satisfaction. i am very proud of what we accomplished. >> what significant, concrete steps which you have taken to ensure that our economy is in better shape than it is right now?

>> i would have taken several different and more specific steps. first, we have in this recession for three years now pri is started with the subprime crisis hitting southwest florida very hard. there was rampant mortgage fraud. this is what i would have done in the last three or four years as governor. i would have expedited transportation projects. these projects we have that a party been funded, it takes too long, 18, 24, 36 months to put those jobs on the ground. i would have streamlined regulation so we could have expedited work transportation projects. i also would have been more aggressive as an economic ambassador. when i am governor, i will let the everyday and ask for a list of names of companies for me to call to recruit to come to florida, or also for companies who are here right now who want to grow and expand, and offer them a helping hand to assist them so that the barriers are

removed and we have the right policies in place. another thing that has happened is that we are in a critical situation on the space coast 3 we knew three or four years ago it was possible the federal government would be reducing funding of nasa. i would have gotten on top of that right away. >> the next governor will be in crisis mode almost immediately upon taking office, facing a budget shortfall, with no stimulus money in sight. where is that money going to come from? >> the estimates of the economists are that the deficit could be between $800,000,000.2000000476 dollars. i have put forth a specific suggestions and -- between $800,000,000.2000000476 dollars.

through other efficiencies liked the way the state uses its real estate, and they are all outlined in my plan. additionally, we have between $2 billion and $3 billion in medicaid fraud embedded in our system, as our own accounts have told us. we have to go after that fraud and reduce it. that is the way i will work with our legislature to close that $2 billion gap so that we don't hurt services to floridians. >> mr. scott, how would you come up with this shortfall? >> step one of my plan is called accountability budget. you go back and do exactly what you do in a business. you look at every agency and say, can i do that less expensively? there are significant savings if you do that. in business, you benchmark. you do other states and and say, can they do it less expensively and get better outcomes?

as you do that, you can save significant amounts of money. we have been smart to other states and we can show there is significant savings. nchmarked othereen marke states. how are you going to pay for the $12.5 billion spending? promises are going to cost us. she has already backed taxes and payroll and sales and cable and water. is she going to have to propose an income tax? >> the first thing i have to respond to is that those charges of those billions of dollars are absolutely a outlandish. rick, we cannot trust anything you say. you have been now they are throwing mud began out there

throwing mud and negative advertisements ever since the republican primary, and your charges have been outlandish. there is not a single provision for any kind of tax increase in any of my plans. by transportation plan, my energy plan, my economic development plan. it is just not there. this is just very tell fabrication. >> you received a letter from the senate presenpresident, andu did not respond. what is the number you are proposing? we are walking into a $2 billion deficit. we know we have to save money. obama math does not work here. what is the number, and what tax will increase? >> i have to respond to that. what obama math is. what i know is that i was of 4.0

math major, and i know how to -- >> [laughter] >> let's talk about education. starting with mr. scott, earlier this year, governor chris vetoed legislation that would have directly tied teacher salaries to student performance. if you are elected governor, would you sign that measure if it came back next year, or would you change it? >> i put out a specific education plan. it starts like this. our education has to be -- this is exciting. it will benefit our kids. every child in this state has the same opportunity i had. i started in public housing. i have lived the american dream. every job in the state has the same opportunity. we have to look at every child as an individual. each teacher has to be measured on their effectiveness of living that job from this level to this

level. we have to make sure retrain our teachers the best we can. next, we need to make sure that our parents have all the choice is possible. just because you live on this block does not mean you need to go to this public school. he should have the choice of a charter school, home schooling, virtual schools. we have to make sure there is more choice. my opponent in her education plan does not use the word choice one time. we have to make sure we do this for the benefit of kids. we measure our teachers, and we have to pay the ones who are most effective and give as much choice to or parents as possible. >> let me just clarify. rick did not really answer the question, because you ask a question about whether or not he would sign the same legislation that went through the legislature last year. i have been very clear that i

would not sign a bill like senate bill 6. this is the reason why. it is because while parts of the bill provided for performance pay and merit pay for teachers, something i strongly agree with, all the school boards, superintendents, parents, the teachers around the state recognize that legislation for what it was, which was nothing more than at tallahassee bureaucrats and politicians taking control of our local school. i would never sign a bill like that. my plan is comprehensive. i put together a 27-page education plan. >> how would you call for accountability? >> i do call for accountability. the way to put together a performance pay plan is to get all the stakeholders around a table, and you build out what you think are the most important factors. it cannot be just one thing like a test given on one day.

i would build out a number of factors, and i would test it out. in my company, i never would have rolled out an incentive compensation plan statewide without knowing whether it really work and results in the right behaviors. i would have tested it out to be sure it was working correctly with the result which we want which is better performance from our students. >> one of the things mr. scott has brought up is whether you are willing to take responsibility. let's go over a few controversies in your past. recently, licensing excellence to sell insurance, nationsbank employees selling questionable securities from the lobby of nationsbank all you were florida president, audit problems at sites enterprise is what you were on the audit committee. do you take responsibility for any of those? >> i take responsibility for all of them. let me just go through what i do

take responsibility for. in the licensing issues, we have a division of insurance agent licensing. i went back to check the charges that were made, and in every case, our lawyers and our agency licensing people have assured me they are doing what i expect, which is to follow the laws that have been on the books for four years and follow the guidelines and rules that were passed in 2002 and signed by jeb bush. we play by the rules, and we follow the law. when it comes to the state pension fund, rick scott is trying to blame me for the global collapse of the stock- market. that is not going to carry water. the fact is that our state pension fund is one of the fourth strongest bonds in the country, and all he did was play all these ads to scare seniors. they are afraid they are not going to get their pensions. that is irresponsible. >> there was a drop in a third

of the value of pensions at a time when the economy was tanking, but you had warnings that some of the investments were in risky securities. why was nothing done about that? >> well, the problem there was that the executive director of the pension fund it did not do his job and did not inform his board members that he had a problem with some investments. i held them accountable and ask for his resignation. we have hired a new director who has the qualified experience to run a pension fund. so yes, i hold people accountable to do the job they are expected to do. this whole pension fund issue, isn't it something that rick scott would accuse me of being responsible for the global financial collapse, when our own state, our state of florida sued it wrecks got personally for insider-trading -- said rick

scott for defrauding the shareholders. >> the company paid a $1.7 billion fine -- fine for medicaid fraud. either you knew about the major problems in the country -- in the company or you were ignorant. how do either of those alternatives make a qualified to be governor of this day? >> first, on the guidelines of the convicted felon. she did not follow guidelines. she could change the guidelines, and she did not. on the pension fund, she was told multiple times, she was warned that the were intoo risky investments, and she did not do anything about it. she waited until after the fact. third, she talks about insider-

trading. that lawsuit was dismissed completely. in contrast, when she was at nationsbank, when her tellers were paid kickbacks for referring elderly citizens from safe bank deposits to risky ones, they were fined and sued by the state. she was one of to audit members of sikes, and they were sued by the state pension fund, and they did pay fines. in the insider-trading case, was completely dismissed. >> rick scott holt -- sold millions of dollars worth of stock in his company just days before the company was raided by the fbi and eventually charged with 14 felony charges. these charges that he is telling

the people of florida about meat, a lawyer that brought the suit against nations security has said publicly that i had absolutely nothing to do with this. that was not a company that i was associated with. the people of florida have been hearing your charges and near-, outlandish attack ads over and over again, when you have a lot of explaining to do yourself. >> the columbia question, $1.7 billion of fines. either you knew, or you were too distant as a manager. >> we build a great company. i started with my life savings of $125,000. >> you have said that already. >> what i focused on was making sure patients were taken care of. i reduce the cost of health care. i clearly could have done a

better job of hiring more internal and an external auditors to have done a better job in making sure the company completely complied with the medicare rates. the lesson i learned is you have to broaden your focus and do what ronald reagan said, trust but verify. that is what i bring to the table. in business, what happens is you get better. something goes wrong, you focus on it and you get better. that is what i have done. >> you have talked about openness in government and you created another successful company. you had a position relating to lawsuits involving the company just days before you file to be a gubernatorial candidate. why not, as part of that openness, allow people to see that deposition? >> there are over 20 million lawsuits filed every year in this country. there are frivolous lawsuits, fishing expeditions all the

time by trial lawyers. that case has nothing to do with my run for governor. i have elected not to release it. >> mr. scott, some parents and teachers criticizes fcat, saying teachers are teaching to the test. do you believe these tests are the best way to hold public schools accountable, and are they best for the students of florida? >> we have to have a way that we can measure the effectiveness of teachers from when the child starts with them to when they finish. we have to make sure if they are in that class for nine months, and we measure it on a per student basisf. cat should not be the only measurement. i second daughter teaches special needs kids. what i have done in business is, you start out with a measurement

program and you constantly upgrade and improve it. fcat is one way to do it. you go from how well that teacher was in giving that individual student. >> overall, do you like the fcat or would you change it? >> it is one way to do it now, but i am sure we can figure out better ways of doing it. >> it talk about your plan for teacher accountability. the think the fcat does it for florida? >> as a parent, testing was always really important to me. my son is in the audience tonight, and he will bear this out. every year i was waiting for the test results to be sure that my children were performing again is a nationally norm to reference test. i believe the fcat has gotten away from that. our children need to be held to

national standards. testing is just one way to the evaluate a student. it should not be done on just one day. we should have ways to evaluate and measure student performance all during the year. if you get to november and a child is falling behind in reading or math, you don't have to wait until the end of the year to say what we need some remedial help here. we have to turn the system around. i am going to ask our teachers and superintendents and principals to and professionals what is really important and how they think we ought to evaluate our students. most people in florida are sick and tired of the fcat. >> we are going to take a quick, two-minute break before we start another round of questions for the candidates. we will be right back. >> welcome back to the florida gubernatorial debate. this event is being seen by voters across the state.

we will get right back to the questions and our panel with the next question. >> on emigration, the next governor is likely to face legislation that could require police and law enforcement in florida to check the immigration status of people they suspect are here illegally. is this a good idea, or a bad idea? >> all of us are frustrated by the lack of action of the federal government in implementing a comprehensive immigration reform plan that will be consistent across all 50 states. as governor, this is the plan i would offer that i believe is appropriate for florida. we should increase the penalties and fines on businesses who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, because they are taking jobs away from floridians and from legal immigrants. when it comes to law

enforcement, i have the support and endorsement of the two major organizations in this state in addition to democratic and republican state attorneys. i have spoken to them about the appropriate ways to enforce our immigration laws. our law enforcement officers have been subject to a tremendous budget cuts, and they are already concerned about the future. they need to be able to protect orleans from serious crimes. >> so you would not support an arizona-style -- >> i would support the alex sink immigration plan. >> a we are country of legal immigration. my running mate is a legal immigrant. she emigrated here when she was 8 years old from trinidad. she has lived the american dream. after high school, she joined

the u.s. navy and started at the bottom, and retired after 20 years as a lieutenant commander. we have to come up with a way that people can come here legally, and everyone knows what the rules are. the federal government needs to secure our borders. we need to come up with a work visa program that works for our employers. whatever industry or in, we need to do that. in contrast to my opponent, who wants to beat up on employers, we need to come up with the way that employers know how to comply with the law. it is common sense, if you are in our country illegally and you are stopped by law enforcement, they ought to be able to ask if they are legal or not, just like we did ask for our id. my opponent wants to talk about all her endorsements for law enforcement. i have been endorsed by sure it's all across this day -- by

all across the state. >> four weeks we have been treated to enlist negative ads with you to attack each other. to switch gears, take a moment and tell us what you admire about your opponent. >> [laughter] >> the one thing i'd mayor about her is our commitment to work- family. -- i admire about her. she is clearly committed to her children and two per husband and being a great family person, which i admire. >> you can take more time if you like. [laughter] >> i admire that rick has been married to his high-school sweetheart for 38 years, and likewise, two lovely and very

successful daughters. >> that was a little too easy to talk about each other's families. you have been a tremendously successful businesswoman and he has been a tremendously successful businessmen. both of you, in many ways, in your purchase to creating jobs and tax cuts and spending cuts, there are a lot of similarities in your platforms. with all those similarities and background and policies, do you think he would make a bad governor? >> i agree with many of the newspapers who have endorsed me in the state. i have 10 newspaper endorsements. a double leverage has gotten a single one yet. i'd agree with them that basically, rick scott is unprepared to be the governor of our state. >> despite that he has had

multiple successes in business? >> i don't think that leading a large hospital corporation that was charged with the largest medicare fraud in the history of this country would rate him as being in a highly successful ceo, when his board had to ask him to leave the company. i think there is an issue of trust here and character and integrity. but the just say, more importantly, the thing that is even more worrisome to the people of florida is that he has not made himself available to a single newspaper editorial board. when you go into those boards, you cannot talk in sound bites anymore. you have to sit there and talk in detail about your policies, and about all we have heard from riggs got up to now is a bunch of sound bites. -- what we have heard from rick scott. >> with regards to editorial boards, i am going right to the

voters. i have traveled the state for 6.5 months, doing events everyday and talking to voters. that is how i am going to spend my time. i think the best way to compare my opponent and the is this. she clearly it is a tallahassee insider. she has been there for years. she has had her shot in her time there. the state has lost over 800,000 jobs. the pension fund has gone to 13% underfunded. she has had a lot of issues with regard to every company she has been involved in. she is basically a failed fiscal watchdog. if you look at nationsbank, pensions, and sikes. on top of that, she supports everything obama support. if you believe obama's plan is the right plan for the country, then you should go for my opponent. i don't believe it is.

obamacare is a disaster. his stimulus is a disaster. on top of that, she believes his economic policies or the right solutions. they clearly are not. >> rick scott just mentioned he has been supposedly talking to voters for the last six months. i have been talking to the people of florida for 26 years. i had 9000 people work for me and my banking career. no newspaper ever wrote anything negative about my character and my integrity and my career. more importantly, i have been talking to the voters of florida for five years. i have been a public servant. i have handled my job very well, according to many newspaper endorsements to have lauded might services to this day. >> you won't answer the question about what you would have done differently on the job. but i was a senior right now, i would be scared to death of

having you spend another four years in office when you took the pension fund to 13% underfunded. you look at what you did by paying kickbacks to tellers. look at the money that was loss s sikes and the fines that were paid. if you want to attack my background, that is great. i have had a very successful company. in every case, you have been a failed fiscal watchdog. >> let's move on. >> i received a call from a viewer in palm beach county to found out i was going to be a panelist for this debate. he wanted me to ask about your opponents idea to drug test welfare recipients and equated it to keep someone when they are down. you have said that you would not oppose this. why? >> what i said is that i don't think the state of florida should be using taxpayer money to fund somebody's drug habit. there has to be away to be sure that our taxpayer dollars are

not used -- enabling someone to continue to be a drug abuser. before we implement an across- the-board plan, i am a fiscally responsible person, and i would like to know what the cost to the taxpayers would before implementing a plan like that. >> mr. scott, is this the right thing to do in an economy and people are losing their job and they might be on government help for the first time in their lives? we cannot insinuate that everyone on welfare is doing drugs. >> we have to think about the children of those families. when there is drug abuse in those households, those kids are having problems. on top of the fact that we will save money, we will make sure that these recipients don't use drugs. my experience is if you test people, they were generally do the right thing.

if you define a problem, those children will be taken care of. i think it is the right thing to do. >> this coming sunday is the fed anniversary of hurricane wilma. the state has been recently lucky since then when it comes to storms. starting with mr. scott, how do you make citizens less of a liability without soaking homeowners with extra, higher premium costs? >> i have put out a specific plan for how to deal with business insurance. we have to take it from what has happened in the last four years while my opponent has been in office. what has happened is, we have 1.2 million policyholders with

over $500 billion worth of risk. first you have to make sure you understand why insurance companies don't want to do business in our state and why they have been pushed out of our state. they can quantify hurricane risk. they cannot qualify other things such as sinkhole risk. we are not going out and talking to these insurance companies and finding out other problems are. the ceo of state farm came to town and nobody would even meet with him. we have to talk to these companies and find out what their problems are, but clearly deal with issues that caused the not to want to do business in our state. >> the ceo of state farm did come to tallahassee and i did agree to meet with him. the reason i did was because they are returning to pull out of our state entirely.

i worked with the state farm agents in the state to beg them not to leave our state. unfortunately, rick, you need to understand that for so many people here in the state of florida, citizens' property insurance is the only choice they have. it is not the insurer of last resort, it is the only ensure they have. so the only way for us to get ourselves out of such a heavy reliance on citizens' property insurance company is to be sure that we have the policies in place, as i will do as governor, to attract global capital and come back in our state and compete for our business. i know i can do it. >> you have had for years. in four years, this is what has happened. insurance companies have left the state. you have not solve the problem in the last four years.

why would you think you could even saw that in the next four years? you have not proposed anything to deal with a sinkhole risk. nothing happened with regard to that. more insurance companies are leaving all the time. state farm is not excited about being in the state. nothing yet done so far has worked. >> i want to bring up something about rigs got a plan for insurance that he rolled out a few weeks ago. rick scott is calling for the regulation of insurance rates in this state. that is something i would totally opposed. there has to be away for insurance companies to stay honest. otherwise they will charge whatever rate they want. deregulation of the insurance markets is not the answer for floridians. >> that is not accurate. we have to make sure that insurance companies treat policy holders fairly. we have to make sure that we treat insurance companies fairly, that they can make a profit so they stay in business.

as taxpayers and policyholders in this state, we are taking over $500 billion worth of risk. you have not solve this problem in the last four years. what are you going to do to solve it in the next four years? >> he met a comment about we have to be sure that insurance companies treat policy owners fairly. i am sorry, but they try to get away with things all the time in terms of slowing down claims payments. my office hears the complaint frequently. rick scott has made a proposal that we just totally eliminate something called a bad faith loss in this state. that would be an absolute disaster. if we did that, the insurance companies would just be able to delay paying claims for however long they wanted to. they have deep pockets, and it would really hurt our homeowners.

>> mr. scott, do you believe homosexuality is immoral? >> i believe marriages between a man and woman. i have been married for 38 years. i believe that children are raised in a more healthy environment if they are raised by a married couple. >> so as governor, you want to see that band kept in place? >> yes. >> is homosexuality immoral? >> no, it's not. that may just mention that rick really did not answer the question that you asked. it has a history of entry and evasively and all of his depositions that he has given. he invites people to go to

factsforflorida.com. i would like everybody to look at whatisrickscotthiding.com. i care about the best interest of the child. i think it should be left up to the judge and the social worker and the people who are closest to that child to make a decision about the best and most loving home environment for that individual child to be living in. >> mr. scott, many people watching right now are facing foreclosure or they are so under water with their mortgage because their value has dropped by 50% or more in some cases that they may be forced to walk away. does the government have a role in helping these people that are teetering on the edge or have lost their dream house? >> hr government caused the problem by making money to

cheat. the way to solve this is to go to my seven-step plan. get people back to work. if we follow my plan, we will get people moving back into the state who have a job, and our home values will go up. that is the way to help consumers get the value of their homes up. >> is there anything specific, someone right now who is watching and thinking that is nice, as soon as those people go back to work of will be saved. that is not the case for them. is there any help that could be extended to these koreans? >> what government can do is make sure this -- extended to these floridians? >> we can make sure that homeowners are treated fairly if they are going through a foreclosure, things like that. my belief is we will all terms of the problem by getting this

date back to work. i have lived the american dream. i father was a truck driver with a sixth grade education. he was laid off almost every thanksgiving. i never had a christmas when he had a job. but we are is we had to go out and work hard. that is what i want to do as governor. >> and the governor do something to help these home owners who are either out of a home or about to be out of a home? >> the detail what i have actually already done in the let me tell you what i have actually already done. i approached the members of the florida bar. as we have seen, it takes a lawyer to try to figure out how to navigate through this morass in the system. i approach the florida bar, and in conjunction with meet that put together a florida attorney is setting homes.

at the height of the program, we had 1000 lawyers who were willing to give free time to counsel with families at risk of foreclosure. is something i am very proud of the bar stepping up and doing. right now, today, you can go to my official website. we have given hundreds of seminars around the state, pulling together lenders and community leaders and credit counselors and consumer credit people to help floridians figure out how to stay in their homes. those are the kind of help i would propose we continue to give, and i will give it i am elected the next governor. >> a question about taxation. floridians pay a sales tax if they buy an item in a store on main street, but not if they buy the same item online. there has been a proposal to establish an internet sales tax.

they think it is a good idea? >> now is not the time to be talking about any tax increases. floridians are hurting. our economy is challenge, and i would not propose any tax increase at all in any area at the present time. >> the florida retail association says it was level -- says it would level the playing field. correct the problem with the lack of internet sales tax is, our local mom-and-pop stores who are paying rents are highly disadvantage, because if you want to buy a pair of shoes, it is cheaper to go on the internet and buy because you don't have to pay sales tax. down the road, we do have to address the fairness issue, because our local retailers are

very disadvantaged on the sales tax issues, but i do not advocate any increase in sales taxes. >> i am against any tax increases. our taxes are too high. i proposed dropping broadly taxes and phasing out the business tax. my opponent continues not to respond to the letter about our spending proposals that are going to cost $12.5 billion and what tax she is going to increase. we see tonight that she is receptive to increasing the internet sales tax, property tax increases, water tax, cable tax increases. she is going to have to propose some tax increases to pay for all the things she has proposed. no different than what president obama has done.

>> there are florida retailers that believe that levels the playing field. >> i understand the issue, but i am against any tax increases at all. we are taxed enough. i will do anything i can to reduce taxes and get money back in the pockets of businesses and individuals so they can get the economy going again. any tax increase kills jobs. >> i am going to stand here and say there you go again. i said earlier in this debate that you are just throwing mud. i don't know where you get that number, $12 billion. there is no number like that in any of my plans. this is what we cannot trust rick scott. he just keeps bringing back the same mud and dirt over and over again, and i don't want the listeners at home to think he can just throw the same

statement now that i talked about without having to respond. >> my opponent is clearly an obama liberal. [applause] >> please, no applause. >> she proposes all the spending ideas and has no earthly idea what they are going to cost. she is not responsible for what the taxes are going to be. we know that all of obama's proposals are going to cost a lot of money. it's killing jobs across the country. >> unfortunately we are going to have to leave it there. each candidate has an opportunity to share final thought. alex sink won the toss. you have a minute and 30 seconds. >> thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to participate in this very important debate, and again, thanks to all the sponsors and friends in the audience tonight.

i came to florida 26 years ago to follow my dreams, just like many floridians have come to our wonderful state. i wanted to make a good living and raise a family, and i have been very blessed and fortunate that i have been able to realize those dreams. but we know that our state has enormous economic challenges right now. the reason i am running for governor is because i want to bring my values to the governor's office. i am still that girl who grew up on a family farm. the values i learned there were that the most important thing in life is your character and your integrity and being honest. it is important to be accountable and responsible for your own actions. when your neighbor's need help, you have to go and offer a helping hand to your neighbors. all i want for florida is to bring those values into the governor's office, and that is how i will lead to our state as your next governor. of what is a stronger economy.

i want more accountable government, and i don't want to be anybody's governor but yours. tonight, if you believe in a stronger economy and more jobs, i am inviting you to come with me. if you believe in local control of schools, not tallahassee politicians and bureaucrats, come with me. if you think character and integrity are really important in the person who is our next governor, then i will ask you to trust your vote to meet for november 2. thank you so much. >> i would like to thank leadership flora, the florida press association, and nova southeastern for hosting this event, and all be for taking the time to watch. on november 2, you have a clear choice between a tallahassee insider, and obama liberal, some who believes that obama's policies or the right policies for our state, or an outsider who has a lot of life experiences and has built private sector jobs.

our state is clearly heading in the wrong direction. almost 80% of our homeowners under water on their mortgage. we clearly need new ideas and someone with a proven record of getting results. i am not a politician. i am an outsider and a business person. i build businesses. i put my own money up. i have created jobs and balanced budgets and help people accountable and cut costs. i have a detailed, seven-step plan. i will hold tallahassee accountable for every dollar that is spent. i will cut state spending and create private-sector jobs. if you are happy with the way that tallahassee is operating, if you are happy with finances, you should probably vote for my opponent. if you want jobs, if you want to turn the state around, if you want to change the way tallahassee works, then i asked you for your vote. my commitment to you is i will take my 35 years of business experience and run the state for the benefit of taxpayers and

families. thank you very much. [applause] >> that concludes tonight's debate. our thanks to everyone involved in putting together this event. make sure you go out and vote. thanks to everyone for watching. have a great night. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> voters had to the polls and less than two weeks. all the key races in candidates on the c-span networks, with debates every night, right up to election day. we have an upcoming event coverage, campaign ads, and other resources.

>> i live debate coverage continues tomorrow night with the governor's race in massachusetts. democratic governor duval patrick will debate republican charlie baker. independent tim cahill and the green party candidate, live at 8 eastern, followed by the new mexico governor's debate between republican susanna martinez and democrat dianne dennis, live from albuquerque. you can watch both debates live on c-span at c-span.org. there are less than two weeks to go until the midterm elections. we are bringing you candidate debates each night until the november 2 vote. next, a debate from the release is for florida governor, pennsylvania senate, and connecticut's governor. you are watching campaign 2010 political coverage on c-span. >> saturdays, landmark supreme court cases on c-span radio. >> at christmastime in 1965,

they decided that would wear small black armbands to express certain views which they had in regard to the war in vietnam. >> the principal suspended them, which led to tinker versus the moines independent community school district, still the acid test for the controversial rights of students. that is saturday on c-span online acton lan cspanradio.org. >> make a video on this year's theme, washington, d.c through my lens. tell us about an issue or topic that helps you better understand the role of the federal government in your life or committee. be sure to include more than one point of view. the deadline is january 20. you have a chance to win the

grand prize of $5,000. there is $50,000 of total prizes. the video documentary competition is open to middle and high school student's grades 6 through 12. >> pennsylvania's u.s. senate candidates met in their first televised debate at the national constitution center in philadelphia. the debate was moderated by abc news chief political correspondent george stephanopoulos. congressman sestak defeated arlen specter at the democratic primary in may. president obama and vice- president biden campaign for joes sestak in philadelphia last week. this is an hour. >> now, live from philadelphia

is national constitution center on the mall, the debate is brought you by the league of women voters of pennsylvania. in alphabetical order, the candidates are democrat joseph sestak and republican pat to omey. moderating tonight's debate art george stephanopoulos and jim gardner. >> hello, everyone. welcome to the national constitution center. this is the pennsylvania senate debate that so many people have been waiting to see. >> we are broadcasting all across the state of pennsylvania. there are lots of opportunities to watch online. way in and tell us what you think. >> we have of useppa nodes to

share before we get started tonight. the four met this evening will include questions to the candidates from me and from georgia and from our panelists. the candidates will have a total of 90 seconds to respond to every question. >> they will have a 62nd response and if the candidate chooses, a 32nd rebuttal. >> the order of questioning was determined by a coin toss. mr. sestak will give the first response. let's begin our questioning. so much of the discussion about jobs and the employment crisis in our country has focused on small business, and that is appropriate, but in pennsylvania, big business has been a problem as well. car assembly plants have shut down. defense contractors have pulled up stakes. some of those jobs are lost and some have gone to other countries. some have gone to other states where the business climate is

friendlier. in pennsylvania, you really have the three headed monster. how do you bring jobs back to pennsylvania? >> thanks, everyone, for the debate this evening. it is still about small- business. pennsylvania has had half the growth of small businesses as the nation's average. washington has to start giving tax credits to small business for every new payroll jobs they create. that would create 5 million jobs in just two years. zero cabral gains task for small business. you are right, corporations have gone overseas. my opponent, for example, noted that if a corporation shut down its factory here in pennsylvania, fires its employees, and then invests in a factory in china, and then it cheap goods come in, often illegally subsidized by china,

then no tax is given to the profit of that large corporation where jobs have gone overseas. he takes another step that corporation should have zero taxes. that is the difference. he believes it is about >> i am the candidate in this race that has actually created jobs. we owned and operated some restaurants and we employ hundreds of workers. the biggest factor that is preventing us from having job growth is this out of control agenda in washington. think about what we have been witnessing. nationalizing whole industries, spending on it -- spun it -- spending money on a scale that i never imagined possible. this again that is preventing us from having the kind of economic growth that we so badly need.

congressmen sestak will talk about accountability on the campaign trail, but he does not seem to want to hold himself accountable. this agenda, this over reach of government, is having a chilling effect on our ability to create jobs. i have started businesses and created jobs. we have to get off this track. >> would you like it 30-second for bottle? >> -- rebuttal. >> you were working in china for a chinese billionaire. you never had hands on operations of your small business that your brothers ran. let's look at how you have no credibility or a track record in creating jobs. during the bush era, zero jobs were created courage compared to the a years -- were created. compared to the 8 years in the

clinton administration. >> this is almost amusing that jal is willing to mischaracterized my small business. my brothers and died and the hundred people that i employed know very well that was very actively involved. that is why i understand that the policies are killing jobs. joe wants higher taxes on businesses and on labor and on all kinds of things that he has already voted for. we just disagree. i think we need to get spending under control. we need to create the kind of incentives that we couldn't get the job growth that we need. >> toomey certification -- mr. toomey, this is for you. the democratic party put out

something that says you have more in common with republican extremist than the voters of pennsylvania. what do you think the parole in this campaign? do you think she is qualified to be president? >> i am very grateful for the support that i have from people all across the political spectrum, republicans, democrats. i welcome the endorsements that have had from high-profile candidates and political figures. here is what i think is important. right now, we are at a reflection played at our country. they have attempted to dramatically -- my concern, and a lot of that concern is driven by the three kids that i have, i am concerned about their future.

you know, whoever is endorsing me in this campaign, i am grateful for. i welcome all allies in this effort to get a government that is out of control under control. >> i know he won the very coveted award of a -- of an endorsement by sarah palin. i have respect and i understand the anger of the tea party. what i am most concerned about are those extreme candidates that are taking advantage of the extreme friend of the tea party. there are those who are -- fringe of the tea party. they think there can be an established religion.

corporations should have the zero taxes, zero. he is consistent on anything, if it is a program for people, he is against it. if it is a program for corporations, and he supports it. that is the difference in this election. >> it is very clear. the person who is the extreme candidate that is so far out of touch with pennsylvania is joe sestak. look at this agenda. not only did you vote for every item on this agenda, many members of the pennsylvania delegation, including democrats, voted against them. he introduced his own bill to create a bail out.

he voted for cap-and-trade, which would devastate our economy. he said it did not go far enough. he voted for the health care bill. that is a very extreme agenda and it is out of step with pennsylvania. >> you know that is wrong and that is not true. my daughter has brain cancer, she would have lost her health insurance. you know i voted against that. health insurance agencies, companies, that were defrauding the government of 20% and charging us more, we stop that. we do not -- i went to congress. we had to control the damage.

>> turning to social security now, for a lot of pennsylvanians , the dream of a secure retirement is becoming increasingly threatened. what is your stand on privatizing social security? >> my opponent has written in his book that we should do it. we have to preserve social security. if it had been privatized, 20 million seniors would have moved into poverty. two-thirds of our sick -- seniors rely on social security for their retirement. my opponent wants to -- he wants to invested there. what broker is going to come forward during a recession and

say, do not worry. i will back it up. that is what he says in his book. the u.s. patent to the senior social security. -- be used -- the youth pay into social security. we will have to borrow from china. he thinks all the answers are found on wall street. i want to keep our social security solvent and safe. >> let me be very clear. joe has been doing a pretty good job of grossly misrepresenting what i stand for. my dad is 80 years old. my mom is of the same generation. they rely on social security. i would never do anything that would jeopardize of the benefits of people who are retired or close to retirement. when i was a member of the

house, i sponsored legislation that would make it out of order for congress to consider legislation that would cut the benefits of retirees. joe sestak has not sponsor any such legislation. i also looked at the reality that we face, the fiscal challenges. i want to make this program last for future did -- generations. we will have to make some changes. we can offer young people reforms within social security so that this program can be a viable. the real jeopardy to social security is the reckless spending of joe sestak, a one place fight -- it will jeopardize our ability to honor this commitment. >> in an election, trick is the first casualty. i sponsored social security to

puts -- i sponsored legislation to cut social security in a lock box. in his book, he says privatized social security. billions of dollars, however of wealth accumulation would be given to those brokers that invest in social security. constituting -- what i do not understand is why are you advocating taking what the social network for seniors and risking it in the stock market we just had an example of where when the stock market goes down, seniors' lives their social security. that is the difference. -- seniors lose their social security. that is the difference. demagoguery it knows no

limits. i ever argued that the vanguard , and they minh -- manage hundreds of billions of dollars. i think a lot of young people would choose the option that i was offered. joe has no solutions for this. he has no solutions for the big problems that we face. instead, it is dishonest attacks. it begins close to a solution, it is always the same. raise taxes and cut benefits. there are no other options. the kind of spending that he is engaged in is the single biggest threat to all of our retirement programs. i think there is a better way to go. >> abortion, is roe v. wade,

would you knock it out completely? would you vote -- >> you have put a lot on the table a lot ones. let me start with the first issue. abortion is a tough issue. my views are consistent with that of a majority of the congressional delegation and the other senator from pennsylvania. i am pro-life. i would accept a ban on abortions. roe versus wade is mistakenly determined and i would support its repeal. i have never advocated that we have a litmus test for judges. what we ought to do is examine the judges qualifications. when justice sotomayor was first suggested, nominated by president obama, many of my colleagues that we should reject her candidacy.

i danger to be quite capable and competent and that advocated for her. joe sestak police in taxpayer funded abortions on demand. -- believes in taxpayer funded abortions on demand. >> they would all like to overturn roe versus wade. i believe those life decisions of a family should be made within the family. i do not think government should intervene. i respect precedent on the supreme court. there is even more of an extreme taken by congressmen toomey on such social issues. he opposes protecting a victim of hate crimes. his idea of gun control, he

said, is a steady aim. 20% increase in murders of our law enforcement officers because they happen to have a military assault weapon. i do not think our law enforcement officers should have to go up against what we in the military had to. i think those of use are too extreme. for main street pennsylvania. >> again, the extreme view is the view held by a the tiny minority in congress and pennsylvania and american society that believe there should be no restrictions whatsoever. taxpayers should fund abortions. partial birth abortion should be permitted. he has taken the most liberal positions on many things. he does not respect the of rights of law-abiding citizens to own firearms. it is joe sestak that has views

that are well outside the mainstream. >> i voted against taxpayers of funding it and you know it, congressman. >> you did not. >> yes, i did. i voted against it. i still respect the second amendment. i respect those hunters in pennsylvania who go out and do a family -- and do what families do in pennsylvania. i do believe there is community safety that needs to be taken. i voted against that amendment. >> everybody can look this up and you will see that joe is seriously misremembering or being dishonest. i am pleased that i have the endorsement of the state

troopers association of pennsylvania, at the -- the fop. >> let me talk about spending. when he went to congress, he voted to remove the requirement that the government had to live within its means. because of that, he left behind the largest deficit in the history of america. >> thank you, sir. i want to pick up your conversation about gun-control. under current u.s. law, people on the terrorist watch list are barred from getting nine airplanes, but they can buy guns or explosives. in the last six years, 1000 people on the terrorist watch

list have been able to buy guns and explosives. given the fact that we now know that al qaeda it seems to be changing targets, should the law be changed? >> yes. anti-ed the navy's terrorist unit. we were hunting terrorist. since 9/11, we no longer have to away games. our first responders have to take care of efforts here at tom also. i do believe in the reasonable laws that inshore criminals cannot act -- gain access to weapons. government should be reasonable. it should not intervene in private life decisions.

but when you know someone is on a watch list to be a terrorist, yes, we should not -- we should ensure that they do not get access to a weapon. >> i think we should make sure that we have a very sophisticated background check mechanism to make sure that terrorists and other dangerous people do not have access to guns. i would not support restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens, however. i think that is a very important distinction. we talk about terrorists. this raises a very big distinction. my view, well we captured enemy combatants trying to kill americans, we should give that person a military trial and tribunal on a military base. joe sestak believes that the

admitted mastermind of 9/11 should be given a civilian trial. he has been adamant about that. i think that is extremely irresponsible. it is dangerous and it is a compromise to our security. >> i am unique among those who have been elected to the congress. i walked out of the pentagon on 9/11. men and women who worked for me never came out. i went on the ground in afghanistan. the fact that those criminals were still sitting down after the support -- supreme court said we could not bring them to justice. i want them to breathe and brought to justice in washington d.c. where they killed my friend. i want them put to death for what they did.

>> he is advocating a huge risk for the united states, a security risk for wherever it would be conducted. it would be very dangerous. the knows what terrorist would try to do to disrupt the proceedings? even bigger than that, in a civilian trial, the prosecution is required to disclose to the defense its methods. i do not think we are under any obligation to help our enemies kill americans. disclosing that kind of information to the very mastermind of 9/11 would be incredibly in prudent. >> you have had your rebuttal. >> my apologies. >> i apologize, you do have a

rebuttal. [applause] >> that is not true. courts do not have to reveal that. george bush tried to under terrorist here and -- here and he never spoke up. look, we have to get these terrorists tried. if george bush could have 200, why didn't he speak of then? i do not care what other politicians say. i am a public servant. >> producers are almost never wrong, but they were this time. >> i think it is abundantly clear that this is a huge security risk. this has been exhaustively explained.

it is part of the reason why the law enforcement community is endorsing my candidacy after hearing both of us present arguments to them. i am grateful for their support. >> let's get back to the economy. with the -- what the american economy be in better shape today have their been no bail out of wall street and the automobile industry? the deficit would not be as high, but are there companies and industries that are simply too big to fail? >> as you know, if you have watch any tv, i worked on wall street. i left wall street 20 years ago. that is the last place the tax payers should have to bail out. when i got to congress, one of the things i did a very early on was started to raise the red flag about my concerns would be imprudent management of fannie

mae and freddie mac. i raised the question about the implicit government guarantee, whether that would allow them to grow too big. i went further. i sponsored legislation that would of meant real regulatory reform. in fact, if that legislation one of passed, it would be very unlikely that they would have reached a size or skill that ended up being so disastrous. into a thousand seven, when joe sestak got to congress, he joined forces with the most liberal reading of this conference. he stood there with barney frank and voted against common-sense measures. the famously decided to roll the dice. now taxpayers have had to put $148 billion into fannie mae and freddie mac and there is no end in sight. >> i was in congress the year

the recession began. we doubled our national debt under the bush era. the last six months of bush's tenure, we had lost 3 million jobs. we were sinking. i had to control the damage. those were cutoff times. we had been torpedoed, the ships were sinking. the last nine months, we created almost 1 million jobs. sometimes you have to take care of other peoples in that bed and just clean them all. but we can not do is let -- he became a lobbyist for special interest groups. deficits are not important. until -- he still fights for wall street.

that is the difference. >> joe has voted for every single bill else that has come down the pike and there are no exceptions. even after he voted for fannie mae and freddie mac and the big wall street bailout, after a majority of members of the house, including 99 democrats, voted to put an end to that tarp program. not a joke. -- not joe. joke is the only sponsor of that bailout -- joe is the only sponsor of that bill. this happen sometimes when people will have no experience in business and do not realize that this is a total misallocation of resources. this is unfair to taxpayers. >> if we have not done what we had to do, there would have been a slight -- yes, another 8

million people unemployed. there were democrats who did not have the courage and conviction to do what was necessary. i will always stand up for doing what is right. explain to us why you believe corporations should have zero taxes. no taxes for aig. they should keep their bonuses. after they ripped us off. you voted against the veterans -- but this is for our veterans fighting in iraq. -- you voted against bonuses for veterans fighting in iraq. >> you've got a few wars overt seas. -- you've got a few wars overseas. are you satisfied with where the

pentagon is spending lies? what would you change specifically if you are elected? >> not at all. when i was placed in charge of the navy, only 65 corporations across america had a larger market value. i balanced that the budget. to do so, i said, the navy is building things wrong. we need 55 -- the soviet union is gone. i said, what we need to know where osama bin laden is. i stood up and the navy ended at against opposition.

there are about 270 now and coming down. we have to stop that program. if we have the knowledge of where he is, and another ship at sea, it will help us. that is the change that has come out. i want to bring that military expertise into the senate. to make sure we do things right. >> my dad is a veteran of the korean war era. my brother-in-law served 20 years in the navy. one of the things that is very important to me is that we make sure that when we asked men and women to go into harm's way, they have all the resources they need to get the job done. i have always voted to make sure to provide those resources and always will. there is waste pretty much

everywhere in government. that includes the pentagon. part of the problem is congress voting for things that the pentagon does not even want. congress has a real spending problem. it manifest itself in many ways. a more egregious example is the practices of your marks. in remarks are a terrible abuse of the system, a waste of taxpayer dollars. money spent on things that nobody would spend their own money on. we are never going to get budget under control if members of congress keep piling on pork like that. >> i am the only congressman up here who has the legislation to end your marks -- earmarks.

let me talk about veterans. it is not just voting against those bonuses. he slashed the veterans administration because he called it waste. 1 million and veterans -- 1 million veterans were kicked out under your watch. then they cut it so much that we now had a backlog of 600,000 cases. it is not just about cutting. >> there are too many dishonest charges for me to rebuke them all. my website will give you a chance to see this afterwards. ford chose to try to pretend that he has any interest in getting spending under control is laughable. the stimulus bill included things like $31 million to build a spring training baseball cap

for the colorado rockies. $11 million for microsoft to build a bridge. joe sestak argued that it should have been bigger. the list goes on and on. he got a little pork in its. he violated the pledge that he had taken it. he had taken a pledge that he would not except, -- campaign contributions from those for whom he was seeking your marks -- earmarks. this shows you just how corrupt the system is. but the >> the new documentary, "waiting for superman" argues that the current school system is failing our children and back to compete on a global stage, something will have to change. what should the federal

government do about this issue? >> my first thought those to my kids. my 10-year-old daughter is a great student and she works really hard. my nine-year-old son and much prefers playing outside, but he is a great student. we are very fortunate. we can afford the modest tuition of the parochial school that we send our kids to. what i think is absolutely tragic is that other parents who cannot afford private school tuition are trapped in schools that are failing their kids. they have no options. they have no choice. we had a staggering number of kids in schools and philadelphia and pittsburgh and in between who really do not have much of a chance and my because they're not getting the education they need. i think if money for funding education should follow the

child and parent should have a choice of any school, public or private. more choice would be helpful for these kids. this movie really illustrates the power of bats. congressmen sestak voted to cut off school choice for children and the district of columbia. they were sent back to the public school that they had tried to get out of. that is a tragedy. >> my mom is a high school math teacher. i thought to get on the education committee. -- i fought. you talk about competition great i believe we have to

invest in argues. pell grants, we have double by reducing the national debts so that lower income can go to college. kids in disenfranchised areas have the opportunity. congressmen toomey said it well, he could afford it. he said, take all schools and make a blood buying groceries. -- it like buying groceries. i got those used -- youth into our military. give them a fair opportunity and they will be all they can be. let's fix it. >> you hear joe sestak opposes giving poor kids a choice of private schools. i have seen how powerful it is

when a poor child gets a chance to go to a great school. the christian academy in pittsburgh is doing a wonderful work for kids that come from some of the most difficult circumstances. there are still too many kids that do not have a chance to go to that school. i think it is unconscionable that we are allowing so many of a generation of americans to have a substandard education. if we give these kids a choice, if their parents had the of the charity to send them to a school of their choice, competition would elevate the quality of all schools. >> i do support choice. charter schools. people do it -- people should have the choice. this is what you are getting with the extreme views of congressmen toomey. he voted against teacher training and reducing the classroom size. he even voted against headstart.

i think someone who says, at a large government is covering all low-income children. i do not get it. if we the peep -- it is we the people, not leave the marketplace. that is the difference. >> we are falling way behind. i have a deal for all of you. would you be willing to have 45 seconds responses and 15 seconds or bottle so that we can cover more ground? >> it is ok with me. >> ok. >> thank you very much. and let's talk about some foreign policy. should the united states participate in a military action court approved against iran

before that country develops the ability to use in nuclear weapon? >> i have patrolled those lanes out there. i have operated after the ayatollah took over. war is the last thing that you want to do. the military option should never be off the table, but it should be at the back of the table. we should try diplomatically -- i voted for sanctions to cut off and make sure iran is not permitted to have a nuclear weapon. >> a comes down to nuclear action, would you prevent it? >> it is the last option i would support. i would not be against what is necessary in order to do it. >> we are far from that period

right now. >> i think it is unacceptable for the united states to tolerate a yet -- a nuclear weapon in iran. this is a very dangerous regime. it is an existential quest to israel. joe and i have differed on this. i urge the toughest economic sanctions on iran and very early on. joe refused to co-sponsored the legislation, but voted on edge in the end. he aligned himself with a small, a very extreme elements of the house that is least friendly to israel. in some ways, they are hostile to israel. he urged the administration to pressure the israeli government. a very big mistake. we should not be passed during the israeli government to make security concessions. >> truth is the first casualty.

they never placed beat the iranian revolutionary guard on the terrorist list. >> you have 15 seconds. >> i think joe has aligned himself with an extremist elements in the house. putting pressure on the israeli government when you consider the enormous security risk. it is a big mistake. >> if you feel like you do not need your bottle, you would be helping us in letting it go. -- rebuttal, you would be helping us in letting it go.

>> we are keeping them secret from are suppose it allies. would it be saved for u.s. forces to withdraw from afghanistan if the taliban is in a position of power? >> i supported president obama decision to increase our troop level and to adopt a counterinsurgency approach. i think that was the right decision. it is a very difficult set of circumstances. it is extremely dangerous for us to leave precipitously, the danger that the taliban would take over, destabilize pakistan, which is a nuclear power. it is a great risk. if the taliban is willing to surrender, if they're willing to give up their arms and renounced violence and except a peaceful

governments, then i think this could be the beginnings of a negotiated surrender. if so, it would be worth pursuing that. >> i was on the ground in afghanistan early on that conflict. we were doing that for all right. -- war right. we are no longer there in southwest asia. it spiraled too far down wards. we were there to eradicate that safe haven in al qaeda in pakistan. if it fails, there are nuclear weapons and 2000 trained scientist that to build those weapons. even if we get the nuclear weapons out, they will remain with al qaeda. i've lost this president for two years, we need -- why do we have

finger-pointing here? we need to bolted up direct find out if we are being successful. we do not have those metrics. >> there is a danger of imposing an arbitrary deadline that is too soon. the people we need to win over if we are going to win the counterinsurgency battle. it encourages them to wait it out. i think we need to pursue this and the general -- and the approach that general petraeus has advocated. >> truth is the casualty. i have not supported that deadline at all. every conflict must have measurement and a bench parks to see if the costs are worth the gains.

>> the un ambassador under president bush says he may run for president -- he is thinking for running the president to agree to bring more attention to national security issues. he does not think the current administration is serious about the threats that we do face. what would you say is the nature of those threats? what approach should the u.s. take? >> the number one danger is our economic security. china. they hold so much of our reserves. imagine what would happen. remember -- it really is a strong economy that under goods are education, military,

undergirds are held system. it is an unfortunate tendency. when he says it is a gift to american consumers, that china is illegally exploiting its imports, as. -- on ellis. we have to get our economy going and that is the number one issue. >> joe things you do that by a huge tax increases. joe has voted for all the bailout, the staggering spending, cap-and-trade, government run health care. joe distances himself from the mainstream of congress and said these things should have gone further. i agree with joe that the most important national security issue long-term is the economic viability of our country.

we cannot have a recovery would be incredibly reckless policies that joke is pursuing. -- joe is pursuing. when i was in the house, i was offering alternative budgets. i was trying to bring spending under control. joe sestak is going in the opposite direction. >> again and again. you are offering no solution. he opposed -- when i voted for closing the loophole for the oil companies in bermuda. >> is so clear that he does not understand this at all.

pennsylvania has lots of great companies. many of them operate overseas. they have facilities where they develop industrial -- they sell them to local consumers. joe wants to punish them. we have jobs in pennsylvania that depend on that oversees business. all kinds of jobs. joe wants to take what is already the second highest corporate tax rate in the industrial world and raise it even higher. this is why we are having so much trouble with this economy. >> you have railed against the obama health care plan that has been passed. why would you change? would you vote to repeal it? >> i mentioned earlier that my dad is 80 years old. fortunately, they are both healthy. they have serious ongoing health

issues. the thing that worries me about the bill, 2000 pages of all kinds of mandates, huge new government control, in time, the government will intervene between patients and their doctors. what we finish my point. this is a very serious concern. i have been approached by physicians every day that share this concern. i am a very grateful to have the endorsement of the biggest medical association and pennsylvania. it is very important that they preserve the flexibility to exercise the discretion. this bill endangers that. >> in the u.s. military, everybody has health care. when my daughter got her brain cancer at four years old, we were very fortunate. i was indebted to this nation.

here in pennsylvania, we have a problem. of to 700 pennsylvanians -- helped premiums doubled. he did not do anything. now my daughter can no longer be denied care by his health insurance company. doctors, nurses, hospitals -- medicare was going bankrupt. we saved it. seniors do not even have to do copays any longer. >> 15 seconds. >> $2 trillion of spending. now people are actually threatened with losing their

coverage. this is exactly what we predicted. rising costs on employers. we see big company saying they need exemption spread -- exemptions. >> let's look at the facts. we decrease to the national debt. it is about -- he is talking to the corporations. >> we are out of time. it is time for closing statements. a coin toss has decided the order of the statement. >> thank you. i joined up the military in the vietnam war era. i like men and women in the conflict. i served president clinton in the white house.

the one moment where i needed this nation, it gave us the health care that saved our daughter. it is we, the people. not we, the corporations. i've gone everywhere throughout pennsylvania. this is a very serious election. my opponent will do things such as saying, by american as an unfortunate tendency. he wants to eliminate all corporation taxes. yet hold the middle class tax cut hostage unless the top 1% get it. i served republicans, democrats, and independents alike in my district. i see the people are suffering. i want to be a public servant, not a politician. i would ask you to come out and vote. i would ask you to remember the

men and women serving overseas, who every day defend that right for you to come out and vote. thank you. >> thank you very much for being here and for participating and for hosting. i think we are at an inflection point in our country. we have seen a government that has been taken over by the most liberal wing of the democratic party. joe sestak clearly to the left of even democratic senators. serial bill alabama, a staggering amount -- serial bailed out, staggering spending. the restrictions of cap-and- trade. these are now policies that are having a chilling effect on our economy. joe sestak voted for every item on that agenda.

his only criticism was that it did not go far enough. we have ourselves in a bad spot, but i am very optimistic about our future. i think we can have strong economic growth again. i think we can restore prosperity. we need to remember the source of that prosperity. it came from a free enterprise system. if we clear a way of the threats of this excessive government agenda, if we provide steady flow of taxes for everybody, if we get spending under control, i am confident that the 21st century can be another great american century. >> t y for a great debate. i want to think our host tonight. >> thank you, george. i also want to thank the candidate for participated tonight. and also to the audience and for

those of you watching at tom and online. these final words from the league of women voters from pennsylvania. >> i and the chair of the league of women voters. we want to think the candidate for participating in this debate. active and informed citizens are a keystone to a strong democracy. for 90 years, the league has been helping the voters. go to our web sites. please vote on tuesday, november 2 and make democracy work. thank you for watching. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010]

>> our coverage of pennsylvania politics continues on friday when they meet for their second and final debate. the latest poll has toomey leading. live coverage begins at 7:00 eastern on c-span. >> " local content of vehicles are traveling the country, a visiting congressional districts to look at the most closely contested house races.

>> tell us a little bit about the history of michigan politics. >> it has been influenced by labor unions over the years. this is the birthplace of the auto industry and the labor movement. the democrats have always been very strong in michigan. when republicans have been in charge, they tended to be more moderate republicans have become more conservative over the years and that is true in michigan as well. it looks like it could be a republican year in michigan. if three of the democratic congressional -- the republicans will have a majority in congress. this might be a red year for the state. the polls are showing that the governor, the attorney general, the secretary of state races will all go to republicans. the economy is just a scary right now. people are losing their homes

and their jobs. they're just does not seem to be a big enough recovery quick enough and there is a real anxiety out there. especially here in michigan with the auto industry, so many people have lost their jobs. we have one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation. there is a high level of anxiety out there. i do not think that president obama will play any role in michigan. i do not think he has any plans in coming to michigan. he symbolizes obama care. did he symbolizes a lot of things that people are upset and frustrated about. >> why is the state of michigan to pour into the rest of the country? >> it will be indicative of what happens in the rest of the country if there is a total republican sweep here in michigan, there is no doubt that there will be a majority in congress. at least in the house of

representatives. what happens around the country. if michigan and those are red, a lot of states can go read. >> local content of vehicles are traveling the country looking out campaign 2010. for more information on what the local content vehicles are up to, this is our website, c- span.org/lcv. >> with less than two weeks remaining in this election season, will be bringing you political debates. next, the candidate and connecticut governor's race. and then a preview of did november 2 midterm elections. debates intonight's the governor's races in illinois and florida. >> the c-span network provides

coverage of politics, non- fiction books, and american history. it is available for you want television, radio, and on social immediate networking site. find are content and a time of the c-span the video library. it is washington, your way. created by cable, provided as a public service. >> a debate between the candidates for connecticut governor. they are seeking to replace the current governor who is retiring. he previously ran for governor in 2006. he is the former ambassador to ireland and is seeking his first elective office.

>> welcome to the gubernatorial debate. thank you for joining us today. let's meet the candidates. gentlemen, nice to see you back here. let's begin with the rules. >> each candidate will have to manage to answer each question periods and then each canada will have 30 seconds to respond. at the end of the debate, we will leave to the minutes for closing statements. >> unemployment is at record highs, the deficit is at record levels. if elected, what will you do? >> we will change direction by changing the rules. changing the rules.