we would like to be treated fairly. hopefully, they will understand that these are people who have lost their homes. they have lost their possessions. they were destroyed. the federal government ought to see that this is no different than somebody who lost their ward these are human beings with need. we are going to keep pushing. hopefully, there will be a new group of people in congress of there. they will be more receptive to listening to states to doing it right. >> let me ask you another one on a different topic. why this texas continued

abstinence education programs when they do not seem to be working? we have the third highest teenage pregnancy rate in the country. >> abstinence works. >> we have the highest rate among all states in the country. it does not seem to be working. >> it works. maybe it is the way it is being taught or that it this way -- or the way it is being applied. it is the best form to teach our children. >> can you tell me how it works? >> i am going to tell you from my own personal life. abstinence works. if we are not teaching it and if we are not impressing it upon them, then no. it being point is we are going to stand up and say y'all go

have sex or whatever is going on and we will worry with that and here are the ways to have safe sex, i am sorry. call me old-fashioned. that is not what i'm going to stand up in front of the people. >> with respect, that is not what the question is asking. they are saying we are spending money on abstinence education with the third highest teenage pregnancy rate in the country. is there a disconnected? >> i do not know -- look, it get in line with -- it gets in line with other programs that we have that we spend money on. do they work 100% for do they work 5%?

that is a bigger issue than whether we have the third highest pregnancy rate. on the amount of money we are spending, are we getting a return on that that is appropriate? >> i believe we are. >> i think those are some dollars that are well spent. we are spending dollars to check kids. what did we find it? 715? we spent x numbers? i'm trying to make it comparable here. if that is a good expenditure, then i would suggest abstinence education is a good expenditure. >> let me move on. this came in for mayor white and yourself. why not issue stated execution

until we can be sure there are no innocent people on death row? >> in have a go process in place. >> you think the investigation is proving we have a good process? >> yes, sir. it has been in front of nine court. it has been a friend of the supreme court four times. you have to stand up and say this man told me that he murdered our children. you have the defender who wrote me a letter in said, "this man killed eight children. -- this man killed his children." this is a monster who killed his children. i think it is clear to most about what is going on pitif. this is a political issue. >> this seems to be an issue of

science and whether appropriate care was taken. the question was, was the science behind the conviction appropriate? >> i am convinced the science and justice was good. we do not and have not had a problem of innocent -- executing an innocent person. >> what about hitim cole? >> we gave him -- i was finishing my statement for the. >> you do not look back in prior cases in think there has been a problem? you believe the system is working? >> yes. >> let me go to another one. we hear a lot about the need for more electricity the little about saving its production --

say the air. texas has dropped in the area of energy efficient policies. is it cheaper for texas if we agree biting -- upgrade lighting? >> what about windmills. i am just asking. >> i am reading. >> i am bringing of faye obvious question that we all wanted -- obvious question that we all want to talk about. we are beating the world in the production of billed out. there are only four other countries that have more wind energy. we need to have a very diverse portfolio of energy. i do not have a problem with energy efficiency programs. energy efficiency is not one to make us energy independent. what will make its energy

independence is having these sources of domestic energy, whether it is in south texas for getting back offshore drilling in texas, billing out our wind, our nuclear, and clean burning coal. if the legislature thinks it is also why this to put those in the building: >> -- building code, i am fine with that. texas electric rates are cheaper today than they were in 2001. >> this is the fourth or fifth time you talked about if the legislature does x bynum call with it. you believe much of this is actually outside the gubernatorial portfolio. >> i have been working here long enough to know how it works.

>> i have had the spilled off my back before. i understand how it works. i understand it. they have their input. i work with it. at the end of the day, the legislature is how it is set up. it actually works pretty well. we roll in here for 140 days and then go home and live under those laws. >> we are unfortunately out of time. there is so much i love to ask you. >> i know you would. [laughter] >> do want to come back monday? it was kind of you to sit down with this.

thank you so much. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> it political report rated a toss up. repay year in -- a rick perry has refused [unintelligible] each of the candidates was interviewed by "texas tribubne" ne" editor for an hour. >> thank you for being here. thank you for joining us. let me ask you a quick question about why we are here. the governor said he would not debate you unless you release

the tax returns for the time you are in the clinton administration. a lot of people are wondering what there must be to make them worth not debating over. would you tell us? if there is nothing, is it worth the principle of not answering his demands? >> it is worth the principal. the base is an obligation to the public. my financial disclosures are much more expensive. he has tried to avoid a debate. i do not think canada should impose on each other. that should be the prerogative of those hosting the forum. >> what is in the taxes that he is after so badly. >> they are all in sworn

financial disclosure statements. >> if the press asks you to release this tax is coming you will do it? >> there has to be some limit. >> let me ask you the version. and now why do you want to be governor, but why should you be governor? why should you be governor? >> i think i have the skills and experience to bring people together to prepare texans to compete with those good jobs for the future one out of every 10 americans are public schools in texas. our per capita income is moving. job growth is slowing. we need to do better than these minimum wage jobs.

when need to bring people together. >> this is on the basis of the time is spent together? it is like being an executive officer. our state leadership is not about giving a speech or holding a meeting. it is not about a sound bite. it is about uniting people on a common goal. our goal should have the state government run as a state service and to focus on the skills -- skills of our workforce. >> your campaign has been aggressive in pushing it. the idea that somehow rick perry has used his office to help his owner's benefit. in fact, our organization reported on the many people who have been donors to his various campaigns.

when you were mayor of houston, you chicken donations from people you appointed. -- took in donations from people you appointed. but do you deny this? >> there is a limit of $10,000 per person. there were some people who had received it way back then who contributed more. >> you think it may be nearing $2 million in total? >> it was less than that in my major races. >> if you are taking donations for people who are appointed, why is it ok for you to take money? >> there is a limit if the state was able to impose the limit, that will be okay? >> i would do that.

i would sponsor legislation to the amount someones been to donate. i will do that. prepare a opposes that. >> is anything wrong with someone who is appointed to the commission? is there something inherently wrong? >> i think there should be a balance in limit. politicalit'll be a machine like rick perry does. $17 million raised from people who he has donated imports in commissions, someone who is in a bank that made him a personal loan? the loans or undisclosed in the financial statement. >> the perry campaign will turn around and say they have been hitting the very heart on this issue.

this is a company they ultimately made some money. would you talk about that. they talked about this for a longer. i want to give you a chance to explain what is and is not at issue. i called on thousands with in the city of houston to provide emergency shelter in goods and services during a hurricane. this is one i called them because they provided emergency services to iraq. the white house called other people. i had no interest in the firm at all. i became an investor. it had nothing to do with the city. they were going into a new business. >> their allegations are at a minimum. >> my investment was fully

disclosed at the time the financial disclosures were made. >> we sat down back in march. i ask you, this is a week after the democratic primary, would you commit to not raising taxes? this was exactly what he said, no -- what i did was and never committed to whether i would raise taxes. >> i said raise or lower. >> is that your final answer? >> do you want to rethink that? >> i do not think we need more revenues in state government. i haven't looked under the hood of state government. my goal is not to raise taxes. every time a perry has run for reelection, he has committed not to raise taxes. every time he is elected, he does so.

>> tell me the taxes he has raised? >> the revenue margin tax. the payroll tax. someone was tripled under repair. he has cleaned up the reserves. when spectacularly after 2003. taxes have been raised on various people after being reelected. my goal is to lower taxes and not raise them. every time i ran for mayor, i did not commit to raise are lower. >> why not if you say you do not believe the state needs new revenue? >> of an ideal of those members of the legislator. >> everyone knows many new infrastructure in this state. i want to be an effective

governor with the legislature. i will veto a sales tax increase. is someone find some tax loophole here or there, i do not know what it may become my credibility is more important than scoring a political point. >> even giving the perry campaign, i'm not committing to raise taxes come you are actually planning to. you do not care about it. >> it is about good government. it is not about keeping options open. i never want to the voters in the eye and be someone like rick perry where he says one thing before the election and does something else afterward. my goal is not to raise taxes. >> you said the state does not mean more revenue. we are going into a legislative session. they predict the shortfall will be $80 billion.

let's say you are elected. now you are going into the session. the lieutenant governor says, how to we approach the task of reducing this enormous shortfall? >> i will bring some things to the table. i will be asking them the same question and other things. state employees know a lot. as good to our highest priorities first. public education. give me a chance to get in there and renegotiate the capital improvements that could be delayed without significantly affected customer mach room service. -- affecting customer service. we have work force by attrition

those are two elements we put in place in the city of houston. >> he mentioned the funding for higher education. >> to believe it was sufficient? >> in general, no. >> what do you do? >> we have a long-term plan for each. >> we had it to the state hospital predict it is about what you do with the money you do spend. the biggest savings seeking get it unfunded mandates by the state. >> can you name one day you'd want to see? >> local school boards have more control of the calendar and curriculum. that is vague. >> we are getting our schools to teach people critical thinking. they needed for college. the technical skills they need for careers read it and how to

take multiple choice tests were we are wasting so much time and energy to go to college unprepared. we will save the taxpayers a lot of money and we will have a more productive work force. >> do you believe tuition should be regulated? >> nowata -- no. he somehow link the flexibility to the amount of state support. the way to make college more affordable for folks is to have a higher priority in the state for appointing people to the boards of these institutions not

based on a litmus test. the what they could bring into this with a private philanthropy. i think people have real skills inhof. no one thought we could reduce our energy consumption as much as we did in houston. we set a goal. which brought him great people. all the money could be plowed into public service. i think we could do a better job of managing costs. >> let me ask you about the rainy day fund. there may be as much as $90 billion. it requires 8 2/3 vote. would you advocate for draining the rainy day fund completely? would you do it partly as a way to get the shortfall reduced? would you leave it alone? >> i think it has been used to some extent.

i do not think we should do what was paca and in 2003. >> un not claim it entirely? >> are there any exceptions in the state budgets that you would make? >> many things are off limits. there were some in public safety. >> it is going to be the same or higher than it is currently. that is not mean there categories or costs. when i was mayor of the city of houston, we made public safety the highest card.

it is close to 2/3 of the budget. their cost in it. within the police department, we have problems -- a process to reduce injuries in accidents. those were affected. it is reduced by significant amounts. in other areas we are able to seek grants in news then to fund things that have been funded by the city previously. when we can do it, as the expenditure is very important. >> so, if there are no specific issues that you think are so crucial to texas the u.s. not even want to touch them? basically, anything is on the table? >> the services, i want to preserve. by sue will this -- you will

discover it. >> during the city of houston, we found the benefit plan covered viagra and other things. we have a more generic substitutions. >> i've not want to say that anything is exempt from the cut. i of yardy canyon and example. i seriously doubt the total by jo will go to them. >> let's ahead. it is going to grow dramatically. you know how it will be this for many years? >> when you get the funding sources for the state, do you look ahead and think we can do

that? it is situated to this. >> but give me examples of where you think it is. >> i think it is a competitive advantage to our state not to have a personal income tax. >> i'm just talking about the competitive advantage it has nothing to do with preparing. -- rick perry. the money we saved still has a house in texas.

the disadvantages, and i'm not telling you i know of the solutions, these are the things were you need to identify an issue and bring people together. in general, we hit property tax owners pretty hard in the state. second, it is a fact. there are many goods that will be sold on the internet. if you go to restore, you peyote sales tax. more and more take place over the internet for th.

>> this will take actions with other states? >> where they have that tax. >> he would have it? >> we also have a federal law. >> i will look at my notes. >> your mayor of a city that has a large hispanic population in the number and total percentage. what lessons did you learn about the population in houston? >> the most important thing is that people want better things

for their kids and better than minimum wage jobs. coughing. i'm it is getting to me. they want an opportunity for a thin kids to have a better life than they do. one out of every 28 americans and public schools will be a latina or latino. how we do educate them makes a difference. i will tell you the difference between me and rick perry. during the last legislative session, a bipartisan bill passed to give for year-old more of an opportunity to have preschool education. >> that relate back to the community? >> ebenezer a four year old. >> 7% of the kids will be affected come from spanish?

let me ask you about another thing that has been an issue. the governor has made a huge deal of the relationship with you and president obama. aquino when he was in texas you were not in austin. can you help us understand what it any relationship have with the president? would you help us understand what the reality of that is? >> i call him president obama. like i would president bush. president clinton. i would never do what rick perry is doing. he is referring to the president without referring to the present. that has to do with america. whoever is a commander in chief,

if you need to refer to our president as our president. . both he and president bush calmly during the time of hurricane ike. i talked to president obama before he ran to office mainly .bout energy from i will try to do the best i can for the people of texas to make sure that our state interest is protected in washington. that is what i did with the mayor. i know that real leadership is not resting a letter into someone's hand. i think real leadership -- and never thought shaking someone 10 was a confrontation -- some one

hand was a confrontation. whenever should have gone into this mess. it should have been worked out in advance. we ought to do that. our governor should very effective and local on making sure that jobs in the state are not affected by this of sure moratorium. i will have a respectful and relationship -- effective relationship with the president face some posturing it is not right that the second-largest state in this country in instead of working on the budget, our current governor has been

working on a book that he co are third with newt gingrich that is being sold on the internet which is 20 [bleep] until after the election -- which is going to be put on line after the election, and it relates to that. >> it has been a constant in the campaign. let me ask about the lawsuits. they say could be preceded by other states. we have a lawsuit on the education funding. we have one on the offshore moratorium. we have one on the permit. we joined arizona and the support. which of the suits would do as governor do? would you keep any complaint? >> usually the attorney general has a say in this, right?

>> you or a lawyer. you know how this works. you probably have a point of view of it is a good use of the government to taking the state time on these losses. should we take these losses? >> i think people have their own areas of responsibility. i am a physical conservative. it only takes one lawsuit to have a long ruled unconstitutional. that is not a theory. that is a fact. i am always a little apprehensive when i see what the elected officials about whether it is in the purpose or to get a head time.

>> you describe much of the activity that the governor is engaged in the believe that is political? >> absolutely. i've always believed there are too many strings attached. there are way too many on state and rick perry. i am for local control as close as possible. have you noticed the difference in tone about the strings attached to federal funds? >> you do not believe it is strings? you do not believe it is specific strings. >> the rhetoric has become much more vocal.

one of the fastest-growing sources. >> let's take the funding issue you raise. there is money to come to texas. there is an amendment that require texans to do things. would you be willing to take this money with the strings? >> i will try to get that many for texas. and never would have come to that. i would have called members on both side. >> sometimes it does come to that. >> i believe based on my experience, people say listen, people have different parties. tom delay was majority leader. i will call him.

and with calls ranking members proposed -- members. we did it in washington. that is the way worked before rick perry. john would respond from calls from the governor. >> you are ok with some federal tax spending? >> scoy de mi ok? >> -- what do you mean ok? >> it would have a love for the extension of unemployment. he rejected because he said there are strings attached. is that the kind of thing you'd look at? >> it depends on the strings. every federal dollar has had strings attached to it. when the mayor went on

bloomberg and said i reject stimulus funds, that is ridiculous. the governor is going all the way back where they had strings attached. are the strength -- strings more than giving back to our citizens? it puts pressure on their local hospital districts. that is not kidding results from the public. let's let me ask you another one and these. that is health care reform. do you support federal health care reform?

>> i would not have voted for that bill. >> i think if you look at the cost, whether it be the prescription drug benefit with the huge unfunded costs the -- that are funded by entitlements that congress is always in the executive branch. they always send to underestimate the cost. this is the history of our nation. with that history in mind, i do not think we should be incurring new debt and liabilities at the time it is already at dangerous levels. >> in a state that is the leader and the number of uninsured children and working families, we do not like this.

what would we like? >> more affordable policies. there are groups like this all over the state. we were unit before hurricane katrina came in. we implemented it during the -- year.'s brita there is in the fordham premium for the employee, employe year. -- there is an affordable premium for the employee and the employer. it is not cover everything. it does not cover too much debt in the anderson. it covers 80% someones primary needs.

i think any more innovations. >> the state board of education has been a circus whether you are a republican or democrat. the view has been driven by all the attention on the state board of education. what will you do differently to make it sowed the surface leaves town permanently? -- circus lease term perm lane. [laughter] >> rick perry said he could not outsmart the state board of education. people ought to think about that. [laughter] i think you need to provide leadership and set an example.

they have gone -- they are talking love things asian not talk about. it hurts our state to attract jobs and businesses. it is one of the consequences of mixing politics and curriculum. and there is a problem with the process, then they ought to address that process.

members of the state board were debating it. it is a separation of church and state. >> governor perry has said that texas creighton more jobs in the last 10 years and every other state combined. what is in the government have the right to claim that? >> there about three times as many created in texas for our seniors in the last 18 months. our unemployment rate is higher in our neighboring state. decade after decade, the iteration after generation,

texas processor than most other states. last month we had the highest jump in unemployment and the last hundred years, we have gone back and all but one state. the fact of the matter is we have some economic problems. with almost double the unemployment rate. a miti is out of touch. >> there was an ad this week featuring police ovitz's from the houston police department claims you ran a sanctuary city.

we have differences with the union. me wanted a sanctuaries sitting. -- we wanted a sanctuary city. we arrest people every day. the department of public safety for the last 9.5 years has stated it would not do civil emigration work or inquire about immigration status. we are not a sanctuary.

we've were one of the leaders before the number of people arrested in a i terr -- turned into i.c.e. >> they are saying the cannot trust this. >> if you configure the amount of tort reform, we do have more less? >> if anyone has a constructive idea, i am all for it. people take frivolous positions

in matters in litigation is. i think there ought to be more penalties. i have been for that a long time. i think people do want access to a jury system in the state prevent we talked said they are following all these lawsuits. i do not think the attorney general should go to courts. >> i want to ask this. when did trial lawyer? >> and think it was sometime after abraham lincoln became president. trail lawyer.

>> will now come to the end of our interview. i'm going to ask you some questions were submitted by average citizens from around the world. let me begin with those now. crime is escalating with drug cartels 15 violence on the texas side. what can be done to protect this? how'd you get the point across to washington? >> do not live. prepare a -- rick perry claimed that crime has been cut by 65%. do not lie about crime statistics. we challenged him on that last april. he is yet to revise it. whitewater the raw statistics? >> the total crime has gone up

slightly not down. the rest has gone up. the cartel activity has gone up. we are understaffed on this side of the border. i have a practical plan to secure the border. there are a hundred new positions for police all along the border. that will increase by more than 20%. we need to let the cartel members know it is not safer. we do not need a governor who is prone to hysteria. when rick perry said there were bombings in el paso, because i guess he did no warheads was in mexico, you can imagine what

that does to efforts along the effort -- border. >the arizona law was mandated. >> he would be opposed to such a law coming? >> for good reason for them. local police chiefs and sheriffs are accountable to their citizens. they ought to set law enforcement priorities. most of them want to respond to 9-1-1 calls and do investigations. if we take some of those tasks,

response time goes down. let me ask you about citizenship. 15 republican congressmen in texas support a restriction that people born to illegal immigrants become citizens. should we be doing with this is an issue? >> can you change a constitution through the state legislature? >> is anything texas can or should do? and as keen to get inside his head. he has figured out a way to do

this. do you have any problem with stripping birthright citizenship? >> i am not knocking him. on a talk show the of the day, someone said there is a liberal state representative who proposes an income tax. >> he can not change the constitution. i do not know what to say about that. >> do you support keeping the birthright citizenship preventative? >> we need to amend it any time. we ought to have better immigration laws.

>> why not issue a stay of execution across death rows into we can be sure there are no innocent people on death row? >> if there is any case where there is some forensic evidence in question, those ought to be identified. i know what we did when i became mayor was identified those cases. people were convicted using forensic evidence may be in question. >> you have no problem with that as a way to address the issue? >> yes, but i do nothing moratorium's applied. >> i am totally opposed to a moratorium. >> and medical marijuana were legalized in texas, as a governor would to veto it? >> the twister is something. >> i do not see that happening.

i want to know what happened in texas to create that capacity. >> i've become there are states right now but in the middle of this discussion. there are advocates for medical marijuana and drug legalization. >> if there is a giant iceberg, [unintelligible] [laughter] >> are you for it? i do not think that is an issue that will be on this as governor prad. i would go to medical doctors a mall enforcement and be briefed about whether this was a big thing and whether there have been abuses in other states. i only tended to serve my term and then i will leave after two

terms, because we will have term limits imposed by the legislature when i am governor. >> since you brought it term limits, let me ask you about that. why are term limits good? i thought we had them and they were called to elections? why should we take people who work experience lawmakers and from them out of office? >> i share the perspective except for where there are executive positions that can be so powerful that you create a political machine. that is why time limits make sense. i think term limits make sense in this current situation. look at what is occurring in this last week.

the governor says he knows it. it is one of his best friends. he contributed for several years. it did not go through it. bill -- what was the chief fund- raiser. he is using it as a political machine. where some of the most fastest- growing industries. >> we need to limit the ability for someone to perpetuate themselves from the this is one way to do it. >> the that happened in the first term? what would term limits do to prevent it? >> he does not have such ironclad control. >> that is the issue? that is what you are looking to eradicate? >> that and people accumulating

favors in faders -- favors and favors. knows that he side of cronyism. it is not good. he uses state government to reward his friends. we need to go the opposite direction. >> senator hutchison made a main point in the attack on governor perry. are you saying he will appoint your enemies? and do not think i have an enemy. i want to have a litmus test.

>> to have to appoint people who are qualified. people have a diverse set of life experiences and skills. >> it is the government that you want to oppose term limits on. hear a lot about the need for more electricity a little about saving it. according, texas has eruptedropd about energy efficiency policy. >> yes. >> that is part of my energy plan. that exact same thing is what i said several years ago. rick perry said that unless we

have new plants we will have left us the route the state. what about now? -- we will have blackout throughout the state. what about now? when the new owners have decided they change their minds, he changed his mind. they are either were or not the blackout. this is another case of public policy being influence by the special interest. >> let's talk about governor white would do. >> we ought to have the authority to have energy pets. we are adopted with support.

we have dealing to the growth of the economy in our area. we need to have fast tracking of permitting for green facilities. we need to have all state buildings built to certification. we need to be the leader in renewable intervene in this country. that means not just win but solar energy. we have this huge solar resources out there. that could be increased jobs. it also makes the grid more secure. whenever you have of resources of power, if you have a natural disaster like what these hurricanes, if you have solar power on the roof, if you have

small-scale generators, you have a much easier time bringing in the grid back up. >> let's talk about wind. texas is the leader in wind among all the states nationally, but only in theory. people all over the state said they like the power of wind, but they don't want transistor -- transmission lines going through their property. what do you do about that? >> you try to use the existing right away whenever you can. there will be new transmission facilities that are needed, but whenever possible, they are to use the existing right of way. >> are there any sources -- are you ok with nuclear? >> i am not for mandating that someone have nuclear, but thank goodness we have 20% of our energy today from nuclear. if we did not always have that much more kolff our -- coal powered plants.

but don't think there's anyone who thinks we should shut down 20% of our power capacity of the nuclear power plants. >> texas has 19 operating coal- fired plants. there are six plans that have been approved that have not yet started operating. there are four more permits in the works right now. so you come in and say with regard to coal what with regard to those plans? >> with respect to the particular permits, you do have statutes on things like due process. if someone has relied on one set of rules, you have to respect property rights and the legal process. our goal should be as a country, more energy efficiency in buildings and vehicles, and substituting some domestic natural gas and renewables for

some cold. if we do those three things, we will reduce the demand for power, we will have cleaner air, we will have less risk of greenhouse gas emissions, and we will become a world leader in green technologies. if we don't do those things, we will have higher utilities and more oil imports. >> how you view the role -- i did not get a chance to ask the question, but do you believe the business community has to much of an influence on legislation, on the activities of governor and other elected officials? how much of a role to the business community play? >> i am for people building businesses. rick perry tends to be biased toward big businesses that hire former staff members of his as

their lobbyists. that is a fact. >> you have a problem with those lobbyists but not a problem with the lobby in general. >> i think it is indicative of this cancer of corruption in state government. look at the fund raiser he had. look at the number of people that cashed in and left his office. when you have countrywide financial giving a $50 million grant, the biggest sub prod linder, that is a real problem. i will do what i did as mayor. i will seek the expertise of people in the business community. i think that taxes should be a state where people can grow their businesses. i think there are some businesses that need to be better regulated. if we have better and clearer monitored regulations, of those who are developing the shell gas

plant, i think there would be better air quality, less questions, less opposition to the development, more of a level playing field for the operators. if we had a system of effective insurance regulation in this state, you would see lower homeowners insurance bills. i don't think it means that every corporation is evil. i think they will play within the rules of the games that are set. >> more than once you have alluded to think you believe governor perry has claimed credit for in the area of bringing business to texas. what is your big strategy for attracting businesses to texas, if you are governor? >> your run state government well, and we ought to be able to provide more services to more people without raising tax rates. that is my goal. -- you bringit by

people to run it like a well run business. there was a company called located in oklahoma. about four or five of us went up to see them. i urge him to come to houston. the ceo of the companies that run across from me and other senior executives and said i don't need economic development incentives. i have made my decision. i am not going to tell you what that decision is. you make a very persuasive case. he called me after he let the employees know that they are going to relocate. later on, the state decided to bring them economic development incentives to bring the company

there, after he had already told us he did not need them. i would have put that money into building higher education, because more tier one universities ought to be a mechanism for job growth in our state. when you get the job growth in our state, it has to be driven by that kind of infrastructure. we need a transportation infrastructure that allows us to expand. planning for the future, keeping a good business climate in the state, improving infrastructure and improving public higher education. >> we are out of time. it has been great to have to talk about so many issues in the last hour. thanks very much for being here. >> the midterm elections are on november 2. each not on c-span, we are showing debates from key races around the country. our line up over the next four

hours includes massachusetts candidates for governor. incumbent dependent governor duval patrick, charlie baker, an independent tim cahill. then a debate between candidates for governor of new mexico. no debates have been scheduled for debates between the covers -- the candidates for governor of texas. the cook political report rates of three of these races for governor a tossup. on washington journal tomorrow morning, we will get ballot measures involving taxes and spending. john will outline results of a survey of young voters.

"washington journal is live on c-span every day at 7:00 a.m. eastern. >> it's time to get your camera rolling for this year's didn't student cam. this year's theme is washington, d.c through my lens. is sure to include more than one point of view along with c-span programming. the deadline is january 20, and you'll have a chance to win the grand prize of $5,000. there is $50,000 in total prices. the competition is open to middle and high school student'' grades 6 through 12. >> in a few moments, a debate among the candidates for

governor of massachusetts. incumbent democrat craddick governor the wall patrick, republican charlie baker, an independent tim cahill. mr. baker is a former health care industry ceo and mr. cahill is state treasurer. the cook political report rates this race a tossup. >> live, the massachusetts gubernatorial debate with candidates incumbent duval patrick, -- >> baker, tim cahill, and jill stein. debate involving the four candidates for governor will be the only gubernatorial debate to take place here in western massachusetts and will originate from our broadcast studios. it will also be available online, streaming live on our website.

our viewers have submitted some of the questions we will ask the candidates tonight. we are committed to bringing you the candidates and what you need to know to make informed decisions this election day, november 2. thank you for your participation. >> that evening. -- good evening. we welcome viewers all around the country watching on c-span. >> i will be the moderator this evening. the candidates are deval patrick, jill stein, charlie baker, and tim cahill. the names were drawn in order.

>> thank you and thanks to the panelists and to the viewers. thank you for participating. i promised to serve as governor of the whole state and i have kept that promise. i have been a friend to western massachusetts. i have been here in the schools and businesses, have been here on the farms and in the streets. i've been [unintelligible] western massachusetts has man included. you and i know that is how we're going to build a stronger and better commonwealth. to lift ourselves out of the hole we're in but also to leave a better common welfare. we're growing faster than 48 other states. we're first in the nation in student achievement. i want to finish what we started. i hope tonight we have an opportunity to talk about how we

do that together. >> thank you to all of you in the viewing audience. as the only kendig who is not a beacon hill insider, i am here to give you a choice for change. business as usual is not working. it has given us foreclosures and struggling schools. all the insider candidates want to cut the critical services we need to stay afloat. i will go after the real waste and the sweetheart deals that will not touch with a 10 foot pole. the massive health insurance bureaucracy and the tax giveaways for the well- connected. we could turn those billions into secure green jobs, 15,000 jobs around the commonwealth. in remanufacturing and healthy food production. this saves us money and will provide a secure jobs that

western massachusetts needs. i can advance the win-win solutions that business as usual takes off the table. i have been fighting for you and i will continue to do that. >> mr. baker. >> thank you. i got into this race and left my job 15 months ago because i was worried about the direction of massachusetts was in. 300,000 people are of work in a matter how positive the spent the government might try to put on a, september saw the single largest job losses in massachusetts in 20 years. over 20,000 lost their jobs last month. i do not believe we are doing near enough to get our economy going again.

[unintelligible] and over $1 billion in new taxes, massachusetts faces a deficit that this governor is having to the next governor to clean up. as someone who has been through to turnarounds' and knows something about making the tough decisions required to restore the fiscal health of the commonwealth, i look forward to the opportunity to discuss the issues tonight. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. it is an honor to be here and i look forward to a spirited debate. i am in this race to give the state independent leadership. we need to go in a new direction and to get different results, we need different direction. we need independent leadership to solve all fiscal crisis. western massachusetts has been

left behind in this recession. despite what is happening the stand within the 128 mckelway, unemployment is at record highs twice the national average. we need a jobs plan for the future and for western massachusetts. i believe we need to and the partisanship and bickering and we need to go in a different direction with independent leadership so we can bring down the barriers that have held us back here. especially in western massachusetts. invest in the government structures it needs like the university and health-care systems and make sure the government does not waste money. there's not enough of it to go around. >> will move to questions from our panel. laura hutcison and dan ring. our first goes from laura hutchison. >> you signed a no new taxes pledge.

how will you keep it and would you veto new increases? >> it is important we send a loud and clear message to the people of massachusetts. bacon hill will not come looking for them to build the state out. we have huge economic issues. if we truly want to get those 300,000 people back to work, we have to [unintelligible] whothe only candidate proposed a $1 billion worth of savings. specific proposals because i want to send a loud and clear message. we have to change the way we do

business and send a loud and clear message to taxpayers and small businesses and families the state will balance its books and live within its means the same way everybody else does. the biggest problem we face now is people do not know what will happen on beacon hill and they presume it will be bad and cost them money. >> i would add that i do have proposed at least 1 billion in savings from cutting the waste will health insurance bureaucracy instead of cutting health care. when not cut the red tape and paper pushing? it detracts from health care. i agree. facing the crisis we have coming up, there are enormous ways we could be trimming the budget. health care was 35% of the budget. this year, it is 50%. it is the one thing that has been growing. everything else has been

shrinking. why not go after the waste and red tape that is costing us billions. it takes to under 75 people to file paperwork at mass general. at toronto general, it takes three people to file. there is enormous savings and we need to go after the tax giveaways for the well- connected. $300 million every year for jobs that were never -- >> if we accept and enact the proposals and tolls go up and talk about slogans and gimmicks but they do not solve problems. the difference between us is not tax policy. charlie has shown he is willing to raise taxes when he thinks the as appropriate.

he has done it as a selectmen when he voted to raise property taxes. i'm willing to cut taxes when i think it is wise as we have done by cutting the business tax. what is the right balance? the choice that charlie is advocating is to cut education so we can do loopholes for big businesses. we should be investing in education. that is a better choice for the people of the commonwealth for the right now in the future. >> i have not signed a pledge as mr. baker has. even former governor romney said it was a gimmick. i am pledging not to raise taxes because our small businessmen and women and middle class cannot afford it. we have to make government work better. make it work cheaper and less expensively. if we have to make cuts, we have to make cuts will live with within our means. small businesses and individuals who are struggling to keep their money -- it cannot keep going to boston and beacon hill.

it must stay with the taxpayer and with the honor. i believe in that. i do not think we can continue to go back to individuals, to small businesses every time we cannot get a budget right. we have to be better at protecting our numbers, be more conservative. we do not have to go back to the taxpayers. raising the sales tax was the wrong thing. we cannot go back to those days. >> as mr. baker mentioned, there is a labor market report showing a 20,000 jobs lost in the stake between august and september. it shows the unemployment rate dropped from 8.8% so it is a mixed report. we're not feeling it so much. the unemployment rate getting better. it is getting worse here than anyplace in the state. other towns have problems.

you talk about a green jobs economy. what specifically do you have for creating jobs out in western massachusetts? how would you pay for it? >> the wonderful thing about green jobs as they tend to pay for themselves. it is true that the recovery to the extent it has been a recovery is in the boston area. it is mostly high tech. probably dependent on the stimulus package. that recovery which is occurring at a snail's pace is not adequate. green jobs can apply all over the commonwealth where the healthy food economy and the agricultural economy is thriving even without support. i would like to take some of the support which are being given to the unproductive areas of the economy. $200 million spent for shopping malls and office parks not exactly a way to jump-start the economy.

i would like to redirect that into is your interest loan so we can start these small businesses in clean energy and active [unintelligible] and free this jobs. >> you cannot grow jobs without a strategy. our strategy has emphasized infrastructure and innovation. that is a strategy to the commonwealth which we have tailored to be specific for different regions including out here. we have invested in education at the highest of all evil when the bottom was falling out. so much else of the state budget. in innovation, companies in the green tech space are an area where we agree. the projects go on. the investment in the data center in springfield.

the high-performance computing center in holyoke. the jobs that have come into springfield because of liberty mutual moving facilities here and progress of coming in here because we're expanding the market for auto insurance because we introduced competition which has brought rates down. we have cooperated with the uniroyal site. >> one minute from mr. cahill. >> how can we this 20,000 jobs and unemployment go down? the reason although i'm not 100% sure is people are dropping out. they're leaving and quitting. we cannot allow people to quit. we have to give them something to hope for. i am calling for entrepreneurial tax relief. incentivize people to start their own businesses and give them relief when they are starting out on sales tax, on unemployment tax.

theythey're starting so can become part of our society. they do not need to rely on this -- big business or tax credits or beacon hill billing amount. they can start businesses in their home community as i did in 1982. that is the key to that success. i believe that is the key to giving people hope and bring them back into the marketplace. >> i agree with the treasurer. i do not think that news is mixed. i think the news is bad. we lost 20,000 in september and 3000 in august. the reason the rate fell as more people were discouraged and stop looking. in western massachusetts, we have lost 8500 jobs from 284,000 to 277,000. the computing center which is a

major development is a good idea. it will work because of low- cost hydroelectric power. we're going to be paying a pretty penny. hundreds of millions of dollars to support them instead of pursuing a more aggressive strategy with hydroquebec. there is a lot of manufacturing and we should help figure out strategies. the thing i hear from many of them is that is cost and cost. >> we will go to mr. patrick. >> reducing the state tax, you have been asked if he would enact question 3. would you go on the record tonight and tell us if you would implement the will of the people if that is what the

majority decides? >> i have been clear about that and i've been clear that any responsible candidate and leader needs to be clear with the voters about what a calamity it would be if question 3 past. same talking about the kind of impact as a fiscal policy as i propose. increases in property taxes and tolls and fares on the commuter rail. schoolalking about the building assistance program disappearing and local service is getting worse. going away. we have got to be candid. what has been fascinating is we talked about -- everyone has agreed that question 3 is drastic but the plan proposed by charlie would have the same impact. let's choose and be honest. people are hungry for us to be candid with them about the consequences of the choices before us. if it passes, i will implement it.

it seems to me we ought to be clear in advocating to the public about the comedy if it did. >> thank you. now to mr. cahill. >> thank you for the question. i will not vote for question 3. it moves too quickly to fast and ties the hands and has an impact on local government. especially when they fall down to local aid, police, fire, and teachers. if it passes we will do the best to implement it and we will have to implemented quickly and fairly. i cannot say there is one thing in our budget that would not be impacted if question three passes and i want to be straight with people. everything would suffer. everything in government would suffer. people would get a tax break and they would go out and spend money. it would be a long time to catch up and that is why it did not think we should do it that drastically. i'm not going to vote for it.

hopefully it will not pass but we can bring in tax relief over time and grow jobs and make up the revenue. question three goes too far too fast. >> mr. baker. >> question 3 goes too far too fast but let's make one thing clear. he cut locally because he did not pursue the kinds of reforms he should have to preserve local aid. property taxes went up by 11% while property values fell in massachusetts. that happens to be a fact. the next governor will inherit a $2 billion budget deficit from this governor. that happens to be a fact. question 3 would add $2 billion to that problem and that does go too far. if we're serious about creating a climate in massachusetts that is competitive, we need to reduce or tax burden. i propose getting 5% on the business tax which many manufacturers have told me would be a boon to their ability

to grow and create jobs. voters voted on it 10 years ago. it is overdue. >> question 3 does go too far too fast. if it passes, i will respect the will of the voters and implement it. i have long advocated for an adjustment in our tax structure because when you step back and look at how state and local taxes add up, middle income and working families are paying twice the rate that millionaires are. cutting the sales tax will go a long way to rectify the burden on lower income taxpayers but i would not implement that by itself. if it comes to pass i think i will work hard to compensate for it by increasing the tax

contribution at the high end. millionaires and so on. there are many ways to do that. it will be one more reason to pull back on the tax giveaways, the 300 million for [unintelligible] so we have a tax base. >> thank you. on monday, the district attorney revealed that convicted murderer alfred gainer killed nine women in springfield. massachusetts does not have capital punishment. under what circumstances would you support the death penalty? would you support the death penalty for someone who killed nine people? >> yes. i would support the death penalty for a case like that

one. i do not think we have to go that far. there are certain cases of premeditated murder that i think we do need the death penalty here. i would sign it it comes before us. we have to be careful about putting innocent people to death. that will challenge over the years -- has been a challenge. we have to progress in terms of defending those people. once convicted and decided by a jury that these people should be put to death, i would support it here in massachusetts. it will be high time to bring it back so people do not get away with what he got away with. >> i would support the death penalty but i am a big believer that the district attorney has the decision to make about whether to pursue the death penalty. this issue has been debated often on. i thought the solution

previously would have been acceptable with the right kinds of protections and constraints. there are crimes that justify the ultimate punishment. in addition, there is one thing i would make sure that is included. anyone who kills or murders a law enforcement official. one of the things we need to do, not just to do with looks like this but lawbreakers and criminals generally is reinvest in our district attorneys and law enforcement. the days budget is down and we need to start reinvesting everyone to keep our streets safe. >> thank you for the question. this is the kind of case where one would want to apply the death penalty because it is so horrendous. we know from looking at where the death penalty is used is it is not a deterrent.

i think we do not want our justice system to be about revenge. it should be about effective deterrents and rehabilitation when that is possible. in this case, i think it is clear that while it would be satisfying in some ways, to have the death penalty, we know that it does not function as a deterrent. i would not support the death penalty under any circumstances. we also know mistakes occur and you do not know until after the fact. i cannot support it and it is important for us to be going upstream and think about a wave of crime and violence and murders taking place now, especially among youth where poverty and hopelessness have come together. >> thanks for the question. this is a horrible crime and there are instances of real animals out there committing crimes like this. for them, i believe death by incarceration is the right

outcome. i think i'm the only one here who has had experience with all aspects of this as a prosecutor. i had to make decisions about the use of the death penalty. i have defended against the death penalty. i am persuaded that this is one of a handful of areas where government cannot be relied upon to make a wise decision every time. i do not support the death penalty. i do support life without the possibility of parole for the most heinous crimes like the one you referred to. >> the question from red to mr. baker. >> there has been a debate over whether the states should stick with the federal testing regime. what do you think about standardized testing? the teaching to the test. in springfield, it led to cheating on the test. >> that is probably not a good deal.

>> what are your thoughts on the strengths and weaknesses of the test as a means of improving education? >> it was supported in a bipartisan manner to raise the standards and create some standard in massachusetts to measure performance. you could wrap development around it. it proved to be enormously successful. if you look at the track record over 16 years, we took a good system and made it the number one system in the country. we have a long way to go. that is the next frontier. i think the governor's decision to join in this national consortium and move this debate with 20 other states was a bad idea. our calling card is the quality of our education system. we're high costs and heavily

regulated. the thing that separates us and makes us competitive is the quality of our schools and kids. we will lose our performance over time. >> thank you. >> the record is pretty clear. if you look at the studies of what standardized tests accomplish, they pretty much improved performance on that very of standardized test. in terms of changing the real world out comes, improving learning by students, including the ability to go to college and stay in college, reducing the need for remedial education, it fails the test. the reality test. it has not held. for many at is a big deterrent to staying in school and to be defeating for students who are trying hard. that does not mean we should not use it to have one standard by which we can compare cross

schools. it is useful. to he views it as a high-stakes test is unjustified by the data. coming from the area of medicine, i am accustomed to looking at evidence based material and this does not meet the test. that someone who stinks' standardized tests, i believe in the test and have supported it and strengthen it. i continue to think that it is the right appropriate measure with high standards. it is a reason why we're listing schools. what has helped as we continue to invest in public schools at the highest level even when there have been enormous challenges across the budget because of a global economic collapse. i think it is completely a false premise to suggest that

leading the nation in a review of common core standards is a retreat of what we have been doing here and there is no evidence it is. i am proud of our leadership role. i am proud of the fact we live standards -- a lift standards for the commonwealth than the country. >> a good question and one that will be debated as we go forward. i am a firm believer we need tests, we need to raise the bar. that test has not done all lot for people in the inner city. part of the reason is as we spent all this time and testing and refining the test, we're not spending as much money. we're not spending as much time. we're focused -- or focused on teachers. trying to lift these children

who come from broken homes and different circumstances and we can give those kids especially those inner-city kids the tools they need. there is a big achievement gap. the wealthy suburbs are doing fine but the inner cities are not working as well. we need to give the teachers the tools and give them support. we cannot justify them or throw the kids at them. >> we will take a brief pause and we will be back in one minute. >> voters head to the polls in less than two weeks.

>> massachusetts is involved in promoting and growing renewable energy resources. there are residents expressing concerns for a wind farm in their town. viewers have asked us to ask you if you favor large wind power project and where would you put them and, to you favor would burning biomass plans? >> would burning biomass is unjustified by the data on several counts. it is polluting in terms of its current footprint. the studies have been comparing it to call and using that as a standard. the studies make it look better than it is. it is a problem. it is bad in terms of the traditional air pollutants and impact on respiratory disease. the pioneer valley has enough air pollution. we do not need more. we need our forests and the by a bass will promote successful use and wasting of those forests. we need wind. community should have role in deciding where and when. when the wind has been

established by the municipal utilities, communities have been able to find workable sites themselves. we do need offshore wind and shoreline but i would like to see it proceeding through municipal utilities. >> on biomass, small scale co- generation makes sense and there is a process under way of making sense of what works for us. in this respect, we may agree. one of the things i know this is in western massachusetts, a great idea. on the cape, they think wind turbines in the berkshires is a great idea. we have to be about is a lot of local involvement. the sort of thing that happened with the project. not seven years of litigation and multiple appeals.

deferring to local choices. the host community and the surrounding communities in water to levels is what the bill is about. that is where we get this part of our clean tech future under way. >> i hope it does not pass and i would not sign the bill. i do not believe we should take local control from communities when it comes to building 400- ft turbines. he will need to have some control over their lives, over their livelihood. it is costly. it may work in some ways, because of the subsidies the federal and state governments are giving it. it is not a path to energy independence. when will not solve our problems. we need to be committed to nuclear power. we have a plan that needs to be reconditioned and licensed. we need to look at natural gas and an out-of-state sources for cheaper electricity.

one of the reasons our jobs are not growing. we have the highest electricity rates in the country. there will not go down. if you tried to put-put manufacturing jobs on the table you cannot do with higher costs. it will not help this grow jobs. >> i agree with the governor on small-scale biomass. i would not sign that bill. we will have to go through natural habitat to build in and the mechanism to get the wind out. one of the highest costs of electricity and it does affect your ability to grow jobs. that is wide enough support keep wind. -- cape wind.

we ought to be chasing less expensive alternatives. that is a good deal for jobs and reducing our carbon footprint. >> the massachusetts taxpayers foundation estimates the budget deficit for the next fiscal years that begins july 1 is a approximately $2 billion. how would you close the deficit? please be specific. >> thanks for the question. it gives me a great opportunity to clear up that misunderstanding. our budget has been balanced in ways that my opposition has criticized. in addition to the investment we made to grow jobs and make cuts we have made to make those investments, we have used rainy

day funds and federal stimulus. there were there to be used for this way. in order to maintain essential services at a time when revenue dropped a we had the steepest decline in revenue in the history of the commonwealth. those investments -- we are seeing the benefit in revenue. we had to moderate million dollars in september alone. october is trading in that direction. part of this solves will be the use of new revenue from growth. part of it is because with the support we got from the federal government, we were able to back out and put it back in the bank. >> we have had a structurally unbalanced budget. we paper over those imbalances

with one tie money. the problem keeps occurring. we have to restructure how we deliver health care in massachusetts. $4.10is ending an extra billion. prior to the law passing. to subsidize insurance companies that subsidized -- we're spending $1 billion over the next five years borrowing money to pay for our highway and transportation employees. it started in the mid-1990s's. it has grown to epic proportions. it is not a good budgeting. it adds 30% to 50% of the cost of each employee. those have to stop before we get hold of this budget. >> it is an important question. the next governor will face a

deficit delivered to them by this government. candidatesnly two who are opposed to some reforms. i want to make sure that people know i am serious about restructuring or forming stake are rents and the governor is answering the question. he will raise taxes to solve this problem if he is reelected. that is what will happen the next four years. i will not do that because the family's cannot afford it. the businesses cannot afford it. if we're serious about getting people back to work and creating an affordable and competitive business climate, we can i go back to the taxpayers. i of place $1 billion -- that is where we need to go to correct the balance. >> it is pretty simple.

if you look at the big picture. in the big picture, what has been growing while everything else has been shrinking for the past 10 years as health care. which is now 50% of the budget. one out of to taxpayers is paying for the system. there is enormous waste in the system, but suitably in the administration section. we can save by moving to a single payer system. a report that estimates it would save $1 billion. basically apply at 10% to 15% savings per you apply that here. in health care. we would gain $1 billion there and the other billion from the tax expenditures which do not benefit, have not delivered the jobs and have not created a healthy and viable economy. we need to put that money where we can use it.

that is where we should be providing support. >> thank you. >> continuing with state spending. several states have opted to terms set -- spending. do you think forcing unpaid for loews is a good idea for massachusetts? >> no. is that an ok idea. these people are still on the books for next year. i did not supported as a treasure. we made our budgets work by cutting our costs by living jobs unfilled over the last year. we have a 14% lower budget that our water -- they left open in order to meet our budgetary needs. those are short-term solutions. all -- if we have too many

employees would have to find out who was essential and who was not. we have to get the essential employees to work and the non- essential ones, if everyone thinks that nonessential still not come to work, if my people to not come to work, they are defining themselves as non- essential. because i hold that rule, everyone comes to work no matter how much snow we have. >> i agree with the treasure of creative furloughs are temporary solution, they're not permanent. way to do is deal with our fiscal crisis so the middle of people -- they do not think the state will come back to them looking for more money. i talked about a lot of reforms and pension reform. i talked about agency consolidation. we have 100 operating agencies that the structure was designed in the 1970's. a lot has happened. we you should be able to come up with a set -- a leader bureaucracy.

that one of four states does not have a time limit for public assistance. we have issues with regard to our health care system. i have made specific reforms to what we should do. we spend $3 million on parking spaces. 6 million on pr people. there is lots of places we can go. >> i agree that unpaid furloughs are not a good idea. we have been cutting workers by the thousands. i am not convinced myself there is a lot more room to cut. there is the occasional patronage or wasteful job. we should be vigilant. i do not think there is a lot of fat to cut. sending people way for unpaid

furloughs does not meet our needs. i think it adds a burden to state workers that are underpaid. recent studies documented while they are much maligned, state workers when you consider their experience and age, they are being underpaid. there are good ways we can go under ways. >> we have had to do furloughs and we have had pay freezes and got a contract recessions. wheat reduced headcount and all those measures are part of $4.30 billion in cuts. we have closed and balanced the budget not with tax increases that represent 9 cents of every dollar in has taken to close these gaps, mostly with the use of rainy day fund. the sort of thing that is

criticized by my opponents but what has maintained services to vulnerable people. you will hear candidates talk about pension reform. you hear folks talk about consolidating agencies. we eliminated over 20 different agencies and shut down the turnpike authority. a lot of folks talk, we do. we earned aa ratings from independent agencies. >> all we heard about was casino and it went silent. the governor and speaker of the house could not come to terms. would you try to revive the casino gambling in massachusetts? what is your vision for expanded gambling and what would you do to work for the speaker to make it happen? >> i am not a big believer they

are of fundamental solution to our true economic problems. we have hundreds of thousands of businesses. if we create a more affordable climate for them in terms of tax and regulatory policy and business costs, those folks will grow and expand. if you can get half the businesses to start thinking they can grow and expand, you will solve your job problem more quickly. i think a lot of people go to connecticut and rhode island and they have massachusetts license plates. one resort would give them a place to go. i could see doing that. doing any more than that and you run the risk of doing damage to the existing businesses that compete for that entertainment dollar. muchry we're focusing too on one solution when the real solution here is to cut spending, fix our fiscal problems, and get serious about regulation and business costs.

>> thank you for the question. i strongly believe that expanded gaming is not a good thing for massachusetts. one needs to look no further than nevada. the poster child for the casino economy to see where it leads. this is not a productive economy. it is a scavenger economy and it tends to draw discretionary income from other areas of the economy. when you create a job with casinos you have killed other jobs, usually in small businesses and entertainment establishments. they have the highest rate of bankruptcies and unemployment. other states with high gambling casino rates or numbers of casinos have had similar problems. it is not the direction you want to go in. you think you will only open one. when the industry comes in, they tend to get their way. massachusetts does not need it. we need green jobs that strengthen our community and

create real goods. >> thanks for the question. you know my position on expanded gaming. if we do it in the form of destination resort casinos and we had few, it can be good for us in terms of job creation but it is not the centerpiece of our strategy. that bill was stuck, things that were stuck behind it included the economic development bill. enables them to get in the ground and not have them expire because of difficulty getting financing. we did import measures to make working capital available for small businesses, to permit small businesses to aggravate and get the buying power for their health insurance and big businesses. we did the autism bill and the fourth straight budget that was balanced, responsible, and on time. there is an awful lot of good work we have done. the second session that was the

most productive in 30 years. we could not get together on that. we may yet. there is a lot of important work. >> thanks for the question. i would sign the bill. it would be the first i signed in january. to create 15,000 jobs, we all needed. when there is a proposal, we get a little scrimmage. jobs are jobs. all jobs have value. we also bring $100 million back in local aid. i would like to fight for more money. we can talk about bringing money back but you get a proposal on the table that will do it. that is important. it will bring billions of dollars of investment. it is a great way to start and my commitment to you is one would be here. palmer seems to be a site people agreed to. it is locally approved, they

will get a casino. that is the only way we can compete and allow people who want to gamble but do not have to go to connecticut to do it. >> you will have 30 seconds to respond to our last question. >> this is a question from two readers of masslive.com. in 1996, gov. weld abolished tolls for passenger vehicles between exits 1-6 on the massachusetts turnpike. between west stockbridge and chickabee. they want to know if you would

support restoring those tolls. it would raise $12 million and putting the back into the western end of the turnpike for operation and maintenance. >> that sounds reasonable. i would have to look into the particular is to now. we need to fund our public highway system and transportation system which has enormous problems with its operating budget and maintenance.

and i think that that needs to be the focus for the next administration. >> if you like the way things are, vote for any of these candidates.

for secure green jobs, for a lifetime learning. some people worry that if they vote of their values, they will not be will to vote for a candidate that they will not like. the legislature can override any veto even if there is a republican. if you don't bring your values into the voting booth, everything you do still not count for much. the commonwealth needs your vision to get us back on track. together, we can start taking our government back. >> thank you very much. this has been very informative.

i hope that you'd get a sense of who we are. for the last 8 years, the treasury has a commitment to massachusetts. almost $400 million has been invested here in massachusetts. specifically here in western massachusetts. we kept this office open. by taking two of our employees and putting them in western massachusetts. you don't have to go to peking hill every time you had -- beacon hill every time you have a problem. i want you to see who has put their money where their mouth is. someone who has actually been the treasurer of the whole state and would like to be the governor of the state.

>> thank you for tuning in. i did not cause the global economic collapse but no one is working harder to help us get out of it. that is what the high- performance computing center is all about. that is why we are investing in school buildings and libraries. that is what bringing the company's two western massachusetts is. i believe government is about people, not about us but about you. the as for your support.

i ask for your prayers. i asked for your vote. >> please, everyone has been so good. we want to thank you, audience, you have been very well behaved. we want to thank all members of the consortium. a lot of work goes into putting in and of that like this and we congratulate and thank our hosts. we think the panelists. good night ida.

[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> we are looking at the most closely contested races. >> i am a country boy from tennessee. if elected, i will help to create jobs. >> we need free market. we need to have the tax cuts to get those jobs going. that is what i am going to do. i want less government and less bureaucracy. >> i spent about 20 years in the

general assembly. about 8 as a representative from this district. stephen fisher is a farmer and he has no business. -- she has no political experience. >> there's a lot of excitement and energy. there has also been a lot of back-and-forth between the two campaigns. particularly because the democratic candidate has raised questions about his opponents past. >> an independent watchdog says that stephen finch might be

guilty of a felony, a felony. he will not release his tax returns or explain them. he refuses to debate or answer questions about millions of dollars in financial transactions. stephen fisher, hiding from the truth. >> need insurance -- the answers are surrounding political philosophy and also president obama and his agenda, health care legislation particularly. for venture has taken the position as a former that he is not a lifelong politician and does not want to be here. family, freedom are our values. what my opponents are saying

about me is not true. this is. these false attacks only help obama and policy. i am stevens center and i approve this message because my roots run deep in tennessee, not politics. >> this is a conservative area. from issues that are not that far apart. >> these might be. they would work across the aisle every time i have seen them they have been working to

protect people. everything that i've accomplished was someone i helped and work with people from the other party. >> i will not work for policy. -- nancy pelosi. [applause] i will work with conservatives on both sides but nancy pelosi does not represent me. >> people do not like the president. i think that he is going to be an albatross around -- the issues that have come up are

not that significant. both talk about wanting to cut spending, balancing the budget, fighting crime. in that sense, there's not a huge it difference in their positions. herrin has obama on his side. to ensure has a more conservative constituency. for better, for worse, that is something that people are looking at. >> we look at some of the most closely contested house races leading up to the election. for more information on what the local content of vehicles are up to, visit our web site.

>> we are showing debates from races around the country. next, a debate between the candidate for governor. the democratic lt. gov. diane denish and ahosuzanne martinez. a couple of light defense to tell you about tomorrow morning. hillary clinton and the pakistani foreign minister talk about relations between the two countries live from the state department at 15:00 eastern. more from the innovators summit

in orleans. c-span, you can see coverage of 2010 as the political parties battle for control of congress. our programming is available anytime at c-span.org. c-span, created by cable and

provided as a public service. >> new mexico's candidates for governor are dianne denish and susanna carquinez. she is the first hispanic woman nominated as a candidate for governor. this is a tossup. >> one of these women will be

the governor and the first woman to hold the position. dianne denish is the democratic candidate and currently the lieutenant governor. suzanne m. carquinez is the republican candidate. >> we will have two minutes to answer questions and you will each be given a one minute rebuttal if you feel this is necessary. >> we draw names and we had witnesses present. mrs. martinez, he will have the first statement. >> you have a minute and 45 seconds. >> thank you. we grew up in a community that

was very simple. my mother worked in an office of her life. my parents decided to -- because i knew how little we had in the bank. they pulled together a business and this was one of my father's first expenses. my parents continued on after and went to law school and they grew that the business into 125 employees. when i graduated from law school, i had a decision to make. that was what they're not there is going to become a prosecutor, a private attorney, a public attorney. i decided to become a prosecutor so i could help those are the most vulnerable.

i work very hard on delivering results. my opponent is avoiding the last 8 years of her record. what is important it is not what you have done. i asked for your support and i hope that you listen carefully and join me on november 2nd. to give the opening statement. >> thank you. these elections are a lot more

fun when times are good. they are a lot more important when times are tough like they are now. those of you watching this debate tonight, you are worried about your family. i am right there with you. frequently, my granddaughter says to me that she wants to grow up and be an artist. i hope she is. her masterpieces are on my refrigerator and all over mybut every child has a dream and it is up to us to help them get there. lost in these elections. you see the negative advertisements and you hear all the noise. it is easy to forget what this election is really about. it is about you, your family, and who will help you get ahead. the choice is very clear on that point. i have spent a lifetime fighting for new mexico families. first as a single mother with my own small business and then as lieutenant governor. my opponent has a different agenda. listen very carefully. she says she will cut money from public schools. she will let corporations roll over our families and pollute our water and lands. that is not what we need in new mexico. i will put new mexico families first every single day.

i will fight predatory lenders. i will fight insurance companies and anyone who takes advantage of our families. you know why? times are tough in new mexico deserves a governor who will be on their side. i have to earn your vote tonight. thank you. >> tied for the questions. each of you just spoke about yourself in your opening statement. let's face it, most constituents only know you to be your commercials which are often negative attacks. i do not want to know what your opponent cannot do. i want to know what you as governor will do. without attacking your opponent, tell us why you are the best candidate for governor and how you would lead. mrs. martinez, you have two minutes. >> i have always focused my

career on results. i make sure that everything i worked toward produces results. i have handled some of the worst cases this state has ever seen. i work hard for those who cannot but speak for themselves in the courtroom. a woman was murdered and raped by people in her own family. it was important to not only be successful in that case, but to go forward with laws that wouldi deliver results. i fight hard for those who cannot fight for themselves. i want to make a difference in people's lives as i have for the past 44 years of my career. i want to fight for you. i want to fight for your families. i want to turn new mexico

around. i want to keep the businesses we have and bring back the ones that we lost. together we can take back our state. it is our state and together we can make differences and be region and nationally. >> you have two minutes to answer the question without attacking your opponent. why are you the best candidate for governor? >> i am a job creator. i grew up in a family of small business owners. i learned how to open my own business and did it. for 12 years i ran my own small businesses. you can always take a few things with you when you run for office. i take with me my experience as a small-business owner. as a lieutenant governor, i traveled around the state,

community after community talking to people and asking what they need. they say they need access to capital. we need credit and collateral. we need money to get our businesses started and live our dreams. i worked across the aisle with republicans and democrats to create a loan program that today has 2000 success stories all around new mexico. you can go to albuquerque and talked to carl who owns a all parts business. -- mobile home parts business. he would not even be in business today without our program. we can do more than that. i propose that we have the $2,500 tax credit for small businesses so they can go out and hire somebody in their community. what does that mean? that means more money circulating in your community. let's give community banks some

of new mexico's money. that way they can help small businesses. there is only one job creator in this room. i am the job creator. i am the best candidate to be governor. >> without the candidates attacking each other, you have one minute for rebuttal. >> we have had a crisis in new mexico that cost us a lot of jobs. we have lost over 65,000 jobs. we cannot afford to lose any more jobs. we have extended the growth of state government by over $2 billion. we cannot continue on this path. it is all about attitude and making sure we are making differences everyday in state government -- cutting back on spending, bringing it down to where the population justifies it, and making our state more competitive by getting rid of taxes.

we have lost jobs to texas, colorado, oklahoma -- i am committed to creating an environment in new mexico for jobs to be created. government does not create jobs. we can do this together. we can cut back spending. >> mrs. denish, you have another minute to tell us why he would be great governor. >> the government does not create jobs, the private sector creates jobs. my family has been in new mexico for 80 years creating jobs, hiring people in our communities. some have worked for us for 40 or 50 years. we took care of our employees. we made it possible for them to have a good life in their community. i am a job creator.

i know how to do it. let's get tax incentives to small businesses. let's put money into this community banks. let's do one more thing. let's make sure we are cutting the red tape. let's have a one-stop shop to get licenses and permits. i want to get out there and create more jobs for new mexico. thank you. >> new mexico has some serious money problems right now. big ones. the latest projections that came out yesterday show 8 $260 million shortfall for the next fiscal year that he will have to deal with. both of you have said that he would not raise taxes and you will not cut education or medicaid if elected. how are you going to pay the bills? mrs. dennis, we'll start with you. >> new mexico is part of a global, economic crisis. families are tightening their belts.

a few months ago, i put out a 36-point plan that says we can save $450,000 a year. we can cut the high paid political appointees. we can have a better technologies, better use of technology, we can put in a wellness plan to keep our health premiums level. we can reorganize state government and get rid of some cabinet secretaries. we do not need a personal chef at the mansion. in my office, every single year i came in under budget. i retired $300,000 to the state budget. my philosophy is this -- spend what you need, give back what

you do not need. my opponent has never given any money back. in fact, she spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on luxury cars. she jogs want to and from work. you pay for the gas. one other thing you can do, we can close that tax loophole on out-of-state corporations to pay their taxes on their profits. they have an unfair advantage in new mexico. the cost us $70 million. let's close that corporate tax loopholes. my opponent has said she will not do that. >> if you now have two minutes to answer could be the most pressing questions in the state. how are you going to pay the

bills if you are not going to raise taxes or cut education? >> we cannot continue to grow the state budget as we have. we have to determine where there is waste and fraud and cut back on that spending. when we talk about closing tax loopholes for out-of-state corporations, that is another word for increasing taxes. we have made a commitment not to raise taxes. to close the loophole, that is exactly what you're doing. you are raising taxes. we cannot afford to do that if we are going to improve economically in the state of new mexico. if we cut back on positions close to what we had during the johnson administration, which can save $10 million.

that should have been done long ago. you talk about the economy being a global economy, it has been made it worse in new mexico by the deficit spending this administration has taken in because of the taxes that have been imposed. $170 million additional taxes have been imposed on new mexico families. that is unacceptable. if we have to make sure that we take care of business. my priority is keeping people in my community safe. that is why my budget has grown. i have to make sure i have the law enforcement that is available to investigate cases. i have to have prosecutors in the courtroom. 130%.

>> just today we were told 5175 jobs were going to come back. -- 575 jobs cmome back. that is going to help that community. my opponent, her numbers do not add up. she has been going around telling everybody she's going tomedicaid and education is 60% of our budget. those numbers do not add up. she cannot cut the budget 60% and not cut money to our public schools and cut critical

services to new mexico families. the real solution to our budget problems is to put a job creator in the governor's office. i am the job creator. >> i am not sure what commercial or what form you have been watching this as i will cut government by 60%. the richardson administration actually grew government by 60%. i have said that there needs to be cuts. 0we have gone way beyond what is l necessary. i have never said we would cut government spending by 60%. that is irrational. i would never take money from the public schools. let me be very clear with the viewers, that is not my intent. my intent is to make sure that we have a full commitment to public schools and those children going to school. they need a world-class

education. that is my focus. >> we will have more time later to talk about education. we want to get back to jobs. it is easy to talk about creating jobs. as we all have seen, it is a lot harder to do that. what is your plan to get new mexico residents back to work? mrs. martinez, you have two minutes. >> my focus has always been on small businesses. the government does not create jobs. the fact that diane denish has been a job creator a decade or more ago is not the focus. the focus is this. positive environment for jobs to be created. corruption kills jobs. nothing more than a big and corrupt government will impact the ability to bring jobs here. we have to tackle corruption and we have to do it quickly. we have no time to waste.

they would tackle it. businesses do not want to come to new mexico because it is unpredictable. people are shaken down port $5,000 here, $10,000 there in order to bring their business to new mexico. that is unacceptable. state of new mexico that are taxed. we have to get rid of the taxes that are killing our jobs. we cannot afford that anymore. we have to cut back on spending -- such as on that $5.50 million jet. we cannot go around spending amherst money. when johnson left this

administration, the budget was $3.80 billion. today, it was six $5.80 billion. we have actually overspent what is necessary. there are $360 million in surplus. that is gone. there is another $360 million in deficit. having a job creator as second in command has not done us any good. >> mrs. denish, you have talked about jobs. how would you put new mexico residents back to work? >> give them a tax credit for hiring one person -- $2005. cut the red tape so they can get their licenses and permits. that is what i would do. i will continue to invest. the new green energy economy -- in new mexico we are on the

process of being able to have a green energy economy. wind, biomass, geothermal -- they can get trained and retrained. we have money for training and retraining so people can go and get those jobs. there is something else we can do to make our families economically secure. my opponent will not do it. we can say no to predatory lenders, the people taking advantage of our families in new mexico. those people are hard at work in new mexico taking advantage of somebody who needs a mortgage payment and ends up paying five times the cost a

bit. here is how i did that. predatory lender lobbyist yesterday hosted by opponent. here is what they said. diane denish is out to into predatory lending. susana martinez has said she will not limit predatory lending in new mexico. she will be on the side of predatory lenders. i will be on the side of new mexico families. >> i would like to respond and say that i think the private sector is what creates jobs. if we let the private sector do what they do best and the government get out of the way, they can start to expand and invest in their businesses and make sure they can develop more jobs.

the jobs they create, those people go out and buy groceries, they buy homes, they buy cars. people in new mexico want to work. they want to work hard. we are not supposed to bring anything to this table from the outside. obviously the rules do not apply to you. he brought something here to the table that was not allowed. instead, he wanted to make a point and about something that was not fair. that is what i want the people at home to understand. you're not willing to follow the rules. i want to make it a point that i am going to fight for you every day. i will take up the corruption as necessary. >> mrs. denish, you have an opportunity to respond. >> i am glad they got my message. i am going to put them out of business. she is to let them continue to take advantage of new mexico families. she is going to roll back all of those rules that let them take

the advantage of new mexico families so they can continue to charge the widow who is tried to get a second mortgage on her house. if she borrows $1,000, she pays $10,000 back. she loses her home anyway. susana martinez has made it very clear. she is on the side of the big, out-of-state organizations. i am going to continue to fight for you, for new mexico families. >> we would take a quick timeout. but campaigns ask for a break to collect their thoughts. >> we will be back in three minutes for more of their answers that are key to the election. stay with us. >> we will have more from the candidates for the governor of

>> democratic candidate diane denish and republican challenger susana martinez. in frustration, we have worked hard as horse, total work have jobs and take care of their families. there real solution is to make sure that we resolve our budget crisis. how do we do this, if we make sure that we are keeping track

political appointees to and we do the things that we need to do to give the family is what they need. government has a role to help them get out of that struggle. the first is to make sure that we are creating jobs. the second, to make sure they have access to child care subsidies so that their kids can be taken care out