is not ready for prime time and not ready to be a politician in washington, she seemed like she passed the bar. she had a low bar to pass but sealed to do it -- seemed to do it. so the trend is favoring the republicans but it is close. host: they say it will come look at how much money the unions are spending in the final weeks of the objection. colorado has spent millions of dollars. nevada. the ground game is essential for reid to win. we are seeing a lot of boasting from labor it is not so much the ads but the turnout. getting their core members to the polls. look at early voting and how many democrats have gone early. if if behind past elections, that is not a good sign for reid. host: josh, thanks for your

time. for more information about josh, thanks for your time. for more information about as promised, we go live to the pennsylvania senate debate in pittsburgh. >> we had a coin flip to say who will go first. congressmen sestak will lead off on both. the opening and closing is will be one minute. the questions will come from me facebook page.i's we also got some video tape to questions from me. -- videotaped questions from me. >> thank you for tonight to debate. we know the challenges to our

state. tonight we have two men who led been shaped by different experiences in life, who have different set of values. mr. toomey comes from wall street where he believes answers can be found by giving breaks to large institutions consequences to the middle class. i've served 21 years in the u.s. military. those who want to approach the problems that we face with practical solutions and those who want to focus on small businesses, we might prosper in have americans do all it can do. i am standing here tonight. i believe that my party has put politics over principle. i want to be a representative

of pennsylvania. >> thank you. mr. toomey? >> thank you for being here. i got into this race because i am very concerned. i am convinced the federal government is taking us down the wrong path, at the path of way too much government. look at nationalizing industries, spending money on a scale and never thought possible, corresponding debt that is on fixable. you add capt. trade -- cap and trade -- is it any wonder we do not have a recovery? we are not creating jobs. congressman sestak has been in washington the last four years. he voted for every item on the agenda list and is only

criticism that its -- and his only criticism was that it did not go enough. we want to have the recovery that we need. >> mr. toomey he took one of the word out to my mouth. i want to talk to you about not only your party labels but the labels you give yourself, then you give one another, the differences between new ideologically. let me start with you, mr. toomey. you say you are conservative and he is a liberal. >> right. >> congressman sestak, do you agree? >> i believe that he is an extreme -- i would not call it conservatism. he is on the fringes of his party. we tend to belief when we are on

the ground in afghanistan that we do not breed of rules or conservatives. what we breed are problem solvers. when i got to washington, we had to clean up a mess that had been put in place a few years earlier by congressman toomey. i understand these labels. >> the redirect liberals for yourself. you would not -- you reject liberals force yourself. you did not call yourself a liberal? >> look at my voting record. i found myself pretty much of a pragmatist congressman toomey headed "club for growth." he bled personal attack ads against republicans trying to get out of his own party. it cannot work with those in

your own party, how can you work with the rest of us? that senate is not working together. >> moderate? >> mainstream. independent. >> is "liberal" a bad word? >> no. i had to stand up for that to get here tonight. >> the only time he has stood up to his party was to promote his own career. if you look at the actual record, it might be that he is the most liberal admiral, maybe the only one. during the primary campaign, he is happy to described himself as a progressive. that is the euphemism they used to describe themselves. most pennsylvanian do not share their liberal views. last year, joe voted with nancy pelosi 100% of the time on everything. every item that i went through,

his only criticism has bid that they do not go far enough. he voted for the stimulus bill. his criticism was is that it should behave been $1 trillion. he was voting to keep tarp go wing. he introduced his own bailout bill that would force them to build underwater mortgages. it would ruin pennsylvania in general but would devastate particularly in western pennsylvania. he said it did not go far enough. the health care bill, too, he was in on. on every single issue -- >> you use the word extreme. do you believe he is extreme? >> let me make clear. congressman toomey is extreme on

the policy. he said he wants to eliminate all taxes for corporations. he says borrowing from america's is an unfortunate contingency. is it if you close your factory and fire your workers and invest in a factory in china, that when you import cheap goods your profits are not taxed. he called it a gift to us. he says in his book that it is open " creative destruction." it is extreme policy. >> do you believe he is extreme? >> there is no question. joe is well to the left. it is appropriate. >> i would recommend people buy my book. not the least of which, because i like to have the royalties. you will find out what is in a.

it talks about how limited government and economic freedom gives us prosperity. now on taxes, i think we should lower the top corporate tax rate from 35% and we have today in -- that we have today, that is the highest in the world, i think we ought to lower it to 25%. then we would be able to compete better with our trading partners. if we do not do this, then america becomes a less competitive place, a place where people will not want to headquartered their business. stimulustalk about the and whether you think it is working. mr. toomey, i will start with you. why do you not think it is working? >> it has been well over a year.

we were told if they got their stimulus bill toll, the unemployment rate will never go above 8%. it went over 10%. where are the jobs? where is the growth? the idea of borrowing and spending federal money is going to generate prosperity is just a huge fallacy. they are taking money out of the private sector and allowing politicians to spend it. that does not create growth. look at the things that are in the bill. there is $31 million in that the bill to build a spring training facility for the arizona diamondbacks and the colorado rockies. i am a big fan of baseball. i think every team needs a spring training facility. how about the owners pay for it? $11 million is for microsoft to build a bridge across a highway, where the richest companies in the world. joe sestak voted for that bill.

he is the only guy in america who think it should of been $1 trillion. whetted then spend $800 billion that we did not have, -- rather than spend a canner billion dollars that we did not have, -- rather than spend $800 million that we did not have, there would have been a better way to do it. >> i know you voted for it. unemployment is still high. why do you think it is working? >> i arrived in congress the year the recession began. we were headed to a depression. mr. bush called upon us to help. mr. paulson did. alice in the navy during vietnam -- i was in the navy

during vietnam. we lost 3 million americans that lost their jobs. in the first three months during mr. obama's term, we lost another 3 million. and the past few months we have created 8 million. we would have had a slightly harder down if we have not done anything. another 8 million americans would have lost their jobs. he is right. we wanted to do something else. i had when it to record republicans and say we could get tax credits for small businesses -- i had wanted to work with republicans and say that we could get tax credits for small businesses. congress toomey mim said we should have given the money to corporations. a 66% of all corporations in

america already pay no taxes. he was to eliminate all taxes? how can you go below zero? everyone watching tonight in a family pays more than a fortune 500 corporation. now he wants to eliminate all taxes? if you action invest in a factory in china -- actually invest in a factory in china, they are not taxed. that is why he has extreme policies. a videotape. we took a camera to the streets of pittsburgh. let's hear the first of those. >> i am from pennsylvania. what is your stance on shell and drilling? are you for or against it? why? >> did you hear it?

>> i've heard it. >> not just are you for or against it, that tactic it? taxing it? >> we have an opportunity to do something i think is very exciting with the natural gas. if you add that the energy that is in the gas, it is equal to half of oil in saudia arabia. it is a staggering amount of energy. it is right here in pennsylvania. it will not go anywhere. penn state did a study. they predicted over the next 10 years the development of this could create jobs.

if this entire industries that need this. this is a huge economic opportunity. it is the biggest economic opportunity for pennsylvania and 100 years. we need to do this in a way that will be safe for the environment. we can do this. i met with the secretary of pennsylvania's department of environmental protection to get his input on the challenges and opportunities. we know how to do this safely. we know how to do this responsibly. we need to make sure they have the resources and manpower to regulate this properly so it is done in a responsible action. no other elected official that i know of has called for a moratorium. no one in congress that i know of calls for this. this is an example of how extreme.

is. >> would you tax it? >> is likely there will be a tax. that is a common approach. >> do you believe it should be? >> that is a decision for harrisburg. >> shouldmarcellus shale -- should marcellus shale be taxed? >> and of the governor does not want to do what you said. i am an independent. we need practical solutions. i am tired of sending men and women overseas in order to protect a big oil. this is what it is about. do we need to drill? you bet we do. let's do it right. that is how i learned to do things in the navy. seven counties have had their drinking water contaminated

already. the federal environmental protection agency is not allowed to know the chemicals that are pouring into the place. 85% of the workers come from outside the states. getre we do it more, let's it right. let's make sure we know what is in our water before more counties are building it. 15 states with the largest natural gas in america puts a 5% tax on it. we should get that tax and repair our roads. congress toomey meant said he -- toomey said he thinks we should drill in lake erie. let's do it practically.

let's make sure we take the advantage of this. >> i never said we should drill in lake erie. this shows how joe is very extreme and to the left of the entire consensus of the democrats. he thinks the epa needs additional regulatory overlay. he calls for a complete moratorium on the biggest potential job creator in literally 100 years. i do not understand that. >> i want to make sure that 85% of the workers from outside, but make sure our community colleges train them. those should be our workers. >> let's go to our first facebook question. what makes you more qualified than your opponent? >> i appreciate the background that covers toomey and in has --

the background that toomey congressman has, but we need someone that understands mainstream pennsylvania. he supports any programs that support wall street. we need support ones that support pennsylvania and the middle class. they drive as forward. i learned to work across the aisle. i was taken with the endorsement i received. it was the ability to work across the aisle. in the navy, a you learn about accountability. i stood up to my party . it is not about my job. it is about making sure the

people's jobs are taking care of. i want to bring my experience in the military and accountability. >> thank you. toomey mr.? -- mr. toomey? >> i think it is the sum of my life experiences. i was born into a working-class family. my father was a union worker. my mother was a part-time church secretary. we were a close family. we did not have much growing up. we are still a really close family. i was a lucky kid. i went to a good school. i'm the only candidate that has actually created jobs in this race. we opened a restaurant and hired hundreds of workers. i think this is a time when we badly need people in washington with some business experience to understand that excessive

government regulation and taxes will actually hurt our ability to create jobs. >> we have a huge budget deficit. what taxes would you like to see cut? i will get to budget cuts in a second. the specific. >> there are too big challenges that we face -- two are big challenges we face. one is to create maximum growth to bring people back to work. i mentioned my dad as a union worker. there were times when a union called a strike. when they called a strike, my dad was out the work. those are times of enormous anxiety. my dad knew that eventually the strike was over into be able to get back to work.

my heart without the people now who lost their jobs. they do not have a job to go back to. we have to make sure we maximize economic growth and job creation. it has to come from the private sector. private taxes will inhibit our ability to do this. >> which taxes? >> i am getting to that. i think we need to make the 2003 tax cut permanent for everybody. dole announced that raising taxes during hard times is a bad idea. he was right them. and forced to become a he has changed his mind now. i would take the top corporate tax rate and lower it to 25%. out also lower the capital gains rate. the president has announced a lowering capital gains is a job creator. he wanted restrictive. i want to probably create those jobs.

-- he wants it restricted. i want to broadly create those jobs. >> i believe washington has to change the focus on taxes. toomey says to eliminate all corporate taxes. what i would do is it your capital gains tax. if you invest in a small business, it creates 80% of all jobs. if we gave a 15% tax credit to every small business for every new payroll jobs they create it, we would create 5 million jobs in two years. i never got my advanced degree until i got to congress. in the navy, i did not need it. here is what else.

the bush tax cut, we need to extend them. vote that we would not go home to extend the middle house tax cuts. toomey congressman said that leadbelly's get a middle-class tax third. least a-- said let's at middle-class tax third. cut.- >> joe has no experience in business. he did not understand the consequences. he has an idea about small businesses create jobs. he did not realize all the damage that they have done to our economic environment is

never going to offset the reality a much higher health- care costs. the threat of higher taxes and higher energy costs. when small businesses are faced with all of those threat, a tax credit to hire a worker will not get them to do it. there are bigger weight on their shoulders that will prevent that. it helps to get some experience in business. >> you are sitting you would cut some very quickly? >> yes. but keep in mind that when toomey congressmen was on the small business committee, and he slapped the business administration in half so the loans used to go to small- business men and women, he voted there had to be a $3,000 fee and

then the loans got cut dramatically. when he said he invested in a small business, he was actually working for a chinese billionaire in china. under oath he said he never had a hand on experience in my small business. which one is it? >> joe knows very well what it is i had to reestablishment. one of them i delegated responsibility. we do what it is i did. well what it is that i did a two two i . i had two establishments.

one of them i delegated responsibility. joe is devoted to these bad policies. the bailout when two giant banks. i was opposed to all of the bailout. who do think is going to pay for those bailouts? >> hold on. you can answer. you vote in favor of some type of tax cut. >> joe is in favor of a net tax increase. >> hold on. if you are going to reduce the deficit, cutting taxes alone will not do it. you must have in mind some programs. what programs? >> first off, what is most

important and what i voted for was a government that had to live within its means. if you want a new program, cut another one. congressmen toomey voted to throw it out the window in 2001. when he left congress, we had the largest deficit in the history of america. he went on television and said deficits aren't important. that is back. we also need a cap on discretionary spending. there are items to do. toomey congressman voted against the entire [unintelligible] let me give you a couple of examples. and armed services, a f-the22 --

we shouldn't buy any more. there is no more soviet union. 65 ceos have a larger market value. the navy could not afford 55 submarines. in education, the scholarships are duplicative of early start. they tend to go to those who are not need the. -- not needy. what is he going to cut? >> this is amazing. he introduced additional bailout

the lacoste 100 billion additional dollars. he voted for the stimulus. he is pretending he wants to reduce spending. this is unbelievable. let's talk about deficits. the average budget deficit was 7/10 of 1% of our economy. joanne is voting for data sets that are now roughly 10% -- joe is now voting for deficits that are now roughly 10% of our economy. >> give me an idea what you a kite. >> i would end all these bailout. i want to ban earmarks. .armarks' are very wasteful it is where they tried to bribe constituents with their own money. they lorded over people.

they are spending taxpayer money. there were 123 opportunities joe for to vote to strip out remarks from the appropriation bill. >> you brought this up. you are knowing for showing up with a big check in hand. you would end that? >> that is what i am saying. most pennsylvanian understand that this is how we got into this mess. we are spending way too much money. we are getting tax is lower. they will be much better off. >> thank you.

the heavy bulk of that middle he said hehaandcut, would give them to corporations. i'm the only one appear with legislation to end earmarks. we have to control our spending. i want a law that requires if you want to do programs, cut another one. it is the slowest growth since world war ii. zero jobs were created. during the clinton era, we had

the largest expansion. congressman toomey renewed the requirement that you had to cut a program. it now in an election, all of a sudden he things that we should control spending. he took over corporate growth. it is a pro deficit spending barter. -- party. to pay for it he says we should borrow from china. >> this is going to have to be quick. >> let me be clear. what he has done with earmarks is unbelievable. he took a pledge in says he

wants to take contributions. -- that he would not take contributions. they found out he had. he said he only met during a limited amount of time. he said he never meant for the pledge to the public. the house passed a role that the democrats said they will only seek your marks -- earmarks for not-for-profit companies. this has to come to an end. >> can you tell the truth? i went to congress. publishedly one new appropriations bill -- who

publish appropriations. his professor gave $300 from the anthropology department did. toomey congressman said he did not take your marks except for the first year. now we find out he took them a second time. he is yet to publish where he got them from. worse than that, he took millions of dollars in bonuses from wall street corporations. now they are following his campaign. the issue is influence of money. we do not want to have a center at all on wall street. -- a senator at all from wall street. >> our next question has to do with cuts. let's roll that tape. >> i live on the north side.

why is it that it seems to be neighborhoods that had the most need for these services have do not have cars and access to different types of services are the ones that have their budgets services cut the most? >> yes speaking specifically of bus about services. >> thank you i've been to the north side number of times. john f. kennedy said, to neglect our city, we'd use it to our peril. to neglect our city is to neglect america. we truly have neglected our cities. pittsburgh has lost 17% of its population in the last 30 years. pittsburgh has not had the focus upon small businesses that they should. worse, it has been our

manufacturing prowess. toomey congressman said. congressman toomey said that the steel industry went bankrupt because it to some of their own self-inflicted wounds. he actually said it is because of labor contracts and mismanagement. as a lobbyist, he did a petition to the senate asking them to sign up opposing tariffs against china. >> i'm going to have to interrupt. i would love to try to answer these questions more specifically. this is just an hour long. >> why do certain neighborhoods appear to get less than others? >> these neighborhoods are often

the minority. minority center should be associated with institutions. only two of them are across the nation. my legislation is said to be associated. in order to get these neighborhood minikin, you are right. >> i'm submit that it to that question. -- i am sympathetic to that question. it speaks to the inefficiency of government. resources get badly mis allocated. the type of resources with earmarked and politicians go round and decide which constituency would get the money. it very well might not be the neighborhood that needed the most.

typically, it will not be prepared i think a much better approach is to determine categories, grant projects, that have merit and allocate the money to states and let local officials make the decision about the allocation. >> do think the stimulus funding has extended higher unemployment rates in the market will work things out by themselves? >> i still cannot believe it should have been bigger. this is an example of how extreme he is. this is the mindset of joe. he is in step with nancy pelosi. it is only criticism is that she did not go far enough.

we cannot spend our way to prosperity. in instead of is growing government, let's have an across-the-board cut in payroll taxes. we could have cut payroll taxes roughly in half for about three years. every single worker would have a take-home pay raise. >> us to get the stimulus bill. economists said another 8 million economists would have lost their job. unemployment would have been over 11%. 1/3 of the stimulus wanted tax cuts for the middle-class 1/3

one two unemployment. congressman toomey voted against it. 1/3 was for a job creation. he is right. i did want to do something else. i wanted to work with republicans. this is a good word. if we have given that tax credit for every new job that was created, we would have 5 million jobs created today. it is a matter of looking at it pragmatically. the stimulus help? yes, it did. it was something where we had been torpedoed. the ship was sinking. we had 700,000 jobs a month.

>> i think any to get to the last to videotape and questions. the time has just flown. i would do that and then ask a couple more really quick answers. i know that is hard for you. from facebook, i love this one. what is your most obvious fault? what is your biggest strength? >> congress and sestak sestak. congressman sestak congressman -- sestak. >> i do too much. i asked to get out and beyond the education committee. education is the key to the future. then i asked for ways to get out of a third committee. we are only allowed to be on two committees.

my greatest asset is my wife. >> well done. >> we will go to dinner tonight. i love her. i learned it is not about me. and and you are not as responsible for what you are supposed to do. i did it because it mattered pennsylvanian spell were losing their jobs. when the father walks of the stairs and a half to tell his son is not one to go to the college that tia been saving for because he lost his job, those 8 million jobs we lost were not just jobs. they were fathers and mothers. we prevented another 8 million. we have to be held accountable. >> be tried to do too much for

your wife. >> maybe my biggest fault is that things in times i tried to keep a lot of balls up in the air and can get distracted. it is important to impose a discipline of keeping focus. >> it is the same answer to both questions. you try to do too much. >> there is no question that my wife is my biggest asset. on a personal level, one of my strengths and semi small- business experience. i work as hard as i can every day to try to grow this business and make the right decisions. if we did our very best and worked as hard as we could, we could hope to be competitive with the other good players. they gave me a sense of humility. and i have to work that hard to beat it my business, the might to tell everyone else how to run theirs? lastt's go to our videotaped question.

>> i grew up in the middle east. there is no separation between church and state. do you think religion should be involved in our government? >> did you hear that? should religion played a role or be involved in government? she said to greg in the middle east where there is no separation. -- she grew up in the middle east where there is no separation. >> when it the great -- one of the great things of america is the constitution. it prohibits -- this is a vital part of our constitutional system, our history, and art tradition. it is not mean we have to deny the fact that most americans are of faith. it does inform the judgment of

most americans. it also forms the basis of many of our laws. sometimes i think there is a tendency to think we have to deny faith and religion entirely. i do not think that is what it means. for instance, i am a big believer that we should offer every child the opportunity to attend the school their parent chooses for them. i think that would be enormously helpful. there is so many kids second failing schools. i believe parents ought to be able to choose schools whether there public or private or religious or non-religious. i think you would be a great opportunity for the kids to have a better education. i like our tax dollars to follow the child. i also have to agree it is

right about our constitution. there are some extreme candidates in delaware that thinks it might be a state mandated religion. we know that is wrong. you can almost and buy yourself anywhere. i go to another church or synagogue or a temple every week since i have been a congressman. i do that because i find good congregational leaders are like military leaders. they are dealers of hope. the also care about the surrounding communities. how can we work together?

people really do want to work together. we need to make sure we focus on their community. >> you mentioned pelosi. do you hear from the voters on opinions on your ad? >> sure. >> what do you hear? >> most people i hear from like our ads. >> i do not hear that. i am not picking on you or you, but in general. >> i am joking. i think the tone of the campaign is unfortunate. the tone of campaigns in general, and this one in particular i wish we could have a more substantive discussion.

i had a picture of myself and joe sestak and the line under a it,two good men with different views and then it checked up on the big issues. my ads are focused on the big policy issues. he has an extreme view of the government's and following nancy pelosi. i think we should have less government and less spending and lower taxes. we have different views. i thought we could stick to these differences. joe has chosen to go down a different road. >> do you agree the tone is unfortunate? >> i do. a toomey congressman said it well in his book. truth is often the first casualty of the elections. >> it is a pretty scary book. -- on halloween. -- read it on halloween.

>> corrected the tone of the campaign. i did not have any ads until late summer. i voted to do we with of private health insurance plans -- how outrageously wrong with that. aughter who had brain cancer is now nine years old would have lost your healthcare i had done that. which did not be pointing at one another -- we should not be pointing at one another. i have great faith in pennsylvanians. i was born and raised here. they will see it. we've all had to look at ourselves. what we want is someone, who is going to be on their side?

>> could you ever foresee add that say this is what i plan to do and not attack? >> i do not think it is right to run ads that smear a person's character or is this honest in any way. i think it is reasonable for them to understand that one person wants higher taxes are lower taxes. i think this is part of the way it has to work. >> to understand that people think it is-? >> it is when the ads on issues are false. congressman toomey as a guy is a good person. i have had a beer with him.

you are right. >> we are quickly running out of time. gun laws in this country, do you like where they are? would you like to see more or less? >> i think the second amendment is a fundamental right. i always have. it is spelled out in the second amendment of the constitution. this is pretty high up. it is important to me. i am glad to have the endorsement of the nra. this is something and joe differ on. i think law-abiding citizens and

not have their legitimate rights to fire arms constrained. i think we should certainly make sure that we have lost a place so that criminals and any dangerous person is not able to obtain a weapon. law abiding citizens -- we are about good right now. we should do a good job and forcing it in some places. >> i lived my entire military career with weapons. i know how to use them. i know how they should be used. i have defended the second amendment for 31 years. those 1 million hunters that go out for the family tradition, whether it is for hunting or self-defense, and they must be able to have the right always protected. i also know that back in the

mid-90's when military weapons were banned, the depath of law enforcement officers by the weapon dropped by 20%. i think criminals should have steady aim and they would never get a gun. >> you would have gun-control laws? >> if i could respond to this. >> i'm the candidate you has the endorsement of the pennsylvania state troopers. my record in support of the second amendment. >> look, they supported what i said.

>> thank you all for tonight event. thank you. two days ago we stood in the national constitution center. the above as were those words were protected for 21 years. it is we the people, not leave the corporations. we --the corporations. it is about the people. as i went through the backroads comment that if you to invest in the middle class and lets small businesses prosper, watch out china. i loved being in the military. i loved serving after it helped my daughter. i would ask for your vote. i would ask you to come out and vote no matter who you vote for, to honor those men and

women. >> thank you. thank you. i just believe strongly that our federal government it off on the wrong track. for the last four years coming sestak joe has supported and attended that has nationalized industries with a staggering amount of spending and unaffordable deficits and debts and government run health care. if he is argued it should go further. i am very bullish on america. i believe we can have a strong recovery. we can restore prosperity. we will do with job growth. we need to clear away these steps. spending is not under control.

we need to have lower taxes so it can maximize incentives. i would appreciate your vote to we can turn things around. >> thank you very much. thank you at home for watching this. do not forget to vote on election day. thank you for the folks who wrote in their questions. we greatly appreciated. election day is drawing near. do not forget to vote. thank you. we will see you later. good night. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> as well as todd young -- tell

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