the gentleman on the detail of his question but we do believe those top-down reorganization that took place where many accidents emerge and the units were closed, what local people wanted. the whole point of the reform is to put power in the hands of patients and doctors. the decision about hospitals will be made on the basis of what local people want. >> many of my constituents are concerned that when young people are found guilty of serious crimes, they get off with a caution and no action taken against their parents. would the prime minister agreed to look of this area for what could be done? >> i am happy to look into this issue. efficiencies and savings in the home office and justice department, we are going to have to be reformers, thoughtful and

creative about how we have a criminal justice system that carries a punishment that the public is confident in but not wasteful of public money as what we have now. it is a challenge we have to meet. >> jim sheridan? >> the industrial disputes, the prime minister joined me in the management that should the carving crew be looking at the building and most importantly no discrimination. >> the most important thing as this action ends and british airways gets back to work, the fact is there is a huge leak competitive airline sector around there and those of us who love our national carrier and wanted to be a success and want to see people go back to work >> each week, the house of commons is in session. we hear prime minister's

questions live on c-span2. on wednesday at 7:00 a.m. eastern and then sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern and pacific. and also at c-span.org can see archives of past prime ministers questions. >> tonight, our political coverage continues with the illinois governor's the base between the incumbent and a republican challenger. also, a massachusetts gov. debate with mr. patrick and mr. baker and mr. cahill. >> voters had to the polls and less than two weeks. follow the key races and candidates on the c-span networks with the dates every night my of to election day. archived debates are online at and on our politics page. upcoming event coverage,

campaign ads and other helpful resources. follow election coverage right through election day. >> max, and illinois governor's debate between the democratic incumbent and his republican challenger. some of the topics include the economy. the debate was organized by the league of women voters and wls- tv. this is about one hour. tonight's moderator is ron majors. >> the evening and welcome to tonight's debate. the candidates will debate so you will be better informed when you vote this november 2.

this is created by the league of women voters of illinois. the candidates for governor or republican bill brady and democrat pat quinn. joining me in questioning the candidates is charles thomas, rebecca's on chess, an antique shop, the executive director of the better government association. as determined by a drawing, each candidate will have an opening statement of one minute. we begin with mr. brady. >> i and debris. over the past 20 years, my wife and i have built a small family business. i am running for governor because i am concerned about the future of our children and yours. over the last eight years, deficit spending, corruption and back room deals, our government is broke. governor quinn has lost over 200,000 jobs for families and

racked up $13 billion in deficits. i have a better plan. i want to cut spending and taxes and create private sector jobs to read my opponent's plan is to raise your taxes and create bigger government. governor, you used to " jfk saying that you would cut taxes for hard working families. what happened? illinois leads a leader. -- needs a leader. as your next governor, i will put the people in front of the insiders. >> i appreciate the opportunity to be here. i am honored to be the governor of the state of illinois. i have brought openness. we have strong ethical standards and reinforce those standards every day. that is the best way to have

jobs and illinois. just today, we were able to bring jobs to our state. 250 jobs making roe wrote cars. yesterday a company that had seven jobs in 2008 now has 900 jobs in our state and we gave them the incentive to grow even more jobs. i understand what jobs are all about. we have to recover our economy. we inherited a terrible recession from george bush " we are on the comeback trail. >> we now go to the questions. charles thomas, you have the first question. >> senator brady, on the subject of balancing the state budget, the phrases a dime on the dollar have been used to describe what would be your approach to state spending cuts during the first year of your administration.

would you explain to the people of illinois why you have not proposed a line by line adjusted balance budget so that we can see, before the election, how you would prioritize the spending of our tax dollars? >> governor quinn has increased spending and. most families and businesses have cut spending by at least a dime for every dollar during these difficult economic times. the failed leadership in springfield has created a bloated government that we can no longer afford. two years ago, gov. quinn was given a $3 billion opportunity to rein in state spending to hit this year, it is an unprecedented opportunity. he has refused to do so. i am calling for an audit by the auditor general so that we can make transparent where government spending is going. governor when comes up with a

new program every day. i will bring transparency so that the people of illinois will know where their state government is. so that we can balance our budget. >> week cut the budget by $3 billion. that is more than any governor in the history of illinois. we have preserved and education to we have maintained our health care. we have made sure that we have public safety. we are taking care of our veterans. it is very important to do that. we have been able to reduce state employees by 1102. that is unheard of. we have been able to reform the public pension system. $220 billion will be saved for the taxpayers of illinois. we have been able to reform our office space to reduce office space and said money. i have a specific plan to cut the budget. we are doing what is called

budgeting for results. my opponents, senator bradley, voted against it. you taken the same information and given us a budget of your own so that we can see what your priorities are? >> the same information is not available. it brought a government of secrecy. he just talked about public safety. we have to look at all areas of state government toward i have been very clear, no area of state government will be asked to help reconcile our spending. i will not punish one area over another. governor quintic on classroom spending. he cut over $1 billion in classrooms spending while leaving the bureaucrats in tact in the state board of education.

he focused on law enforcement. he cut redistribution to local units of government and cutting state police. his record on public safety is abysmal. >> mr. quinn? >> number one, our budget increase education. we wanted to make sure we invest in children. i do not want to lose a generation of children in illinois. my opponent wants to cut the education banat -- bonus. that would fire teachers and our state. -- in our state. that is the wrong and reckless way to go. i believe in making sure that we cut the budget in a proper way that maintains our education. with respect to public safety, my opponent is hardly one to talk about that. he voted against a bill of would have stopped spouse abusers and child abusers from having guns. we should stop those people from having guns whatsoever.

>> mr. sanchez, your first question goes to mr. quinn. >> what standards do you use for line items? how you hold them accountable and are the results driven? >> i want to thank senator dan macao's before leading the effort with my support to get through the legislature a landmark budget reform. it requires us to look at every single line item on our state budget. it determines whether or not it is not producing results. if not, that money will not be there the following year. it is a systematic way to cut the budget on an annual basis. i supported that. my opponent voted against it. i think that i have shown my accomplishments in office. i have been able to cut the budget more than any governor i.

my opponent voted to keep his pay the same. i do think that is a very good way to do things. that is the best way to go. >> line item and zero based budgeting is what we do in the private sector and is what we need to adopt. good politicians cannot follow through on it. of the governor talks about cutting pay, but gave secret pay raises to his inner circle staff. some as high as 20%. he cut payments to our human service providers and health care providers. we cannot have excessive spending any more. we need to focus on the highest priorities. we need to insure that we have public safety. we need to balance the resources that we have for a sound education system. governor quinn has failed on this initiative.

he has chosen to take the political road, the insider interest instead of the people's interest. we need to support the people of illinois, not the insiders. follow? >> governor, how do you hold him accountable? are the results driven? and you just keep giving it to them every year? >> i do not think we should do that. we should make sure that money that the taxpayers put into the government is spent in a proper way every year. that is why i believe that education. when we invest in education, we are helping create jobs today and tomorrow. i used to teach community college at night. i believe in community colleges. i want to make sure they deliver results for all of us, just like our four-year universities. it is important to have that investment but a government is

to make sure that we do have education. my opponent wants to cut the education budget by over $1 billion and raise local property taxes. he even said so at the state fair. if he would ever become governor, there would be a natural rise in property taxes. i am dead set against that. that is the wrong way to go. >> i have never talked about raising property taxes and you know it. you have failed to deliver. the governor of the state of illinois has a line item budget veto. you fail to do so. you violated the constitution. you have left illinois with record debt and left us with a backlog of unpaid bills of over $6 billion. we need a governor that has the discipline to stand up for the people's interests and not the special insider interest. governor quinn has failed to stand up to the people -- for

the people of illinois. i will do so. >> center brady, you are opposed to gun control, the rights and affirmative action. a lot of people that believe that we need a change in springfield and like to see republicans instead of democrats in leadership positions are simply a -- assembly afraid to vote for you on the social issues. would you tell these people? >> i am proud of my beliefs. unlike governor quinn, i am not using them to divide illinois. governor quinn is using social issues to the by illinois throughout the campaign. i am bringing people together during a fiscal crisis that governor quinn has put us in. a loss of over 200,000 jobs, a loss of over 26,000 jobs in just the last two months. he talks about bringing jobs to avoid, but fails to recognize that when you lose more jobs than you create, it hurts hard-

working illinois families. our agenda has been about reducing tax burden and balancing our budget. so only families can have a job and a livelihood. governor quinn has used the social issues to divide illinois. i will use my platform in this office to bring economic viability back to our states. >> some say that i am pro- business and pro people. i think that if you are pro people, there's a fundamental right that people have. i am pro-choice. my opponent wants a constitutional amendment to ban abortion, even in the case of rape or incest. i do not think the people believe in that. my opponent also said the other night that it would be okay and sponsored legislation to fire gay people from the job because they are gay. that is just plain wrong. my opponent also is against banning assault weapons. assault weapons that are used to

kill our police officers and young people on the street. i think that we need to have a governor with the courage and gun-control. the whole issue of standing up for people, you have to have a governor with a heart. i understand that. it is important to go to the african-american community and make sure they have the opportunity to evaluate the canvas. my candid has missed five straight forums and debates including the naacp and urban league. he does not show up. at 99%, i show up. >> let me get an actual answer to the question. what do you tell people who say you will roll back existing rights when it comes to a choice, guns, affirmative- action and gays? there is a concern that your agenda is a threat to all the things that they have worked hard for over the years in illinois. >> the federal courts have ruled

in on the issue of abortion. yes, i s support its parent's right to know in the event of a child. i do support the second amendment. but these issues should not be used to divide illinois. many people agree with me on these issues. we need a governor that will focus on the crisis at hand. governor quinn is right. he happens to be the governor for missouri and wisconsin. you turned your back on communities in support of wal- mart. you turned your back on communities when it came to education. you put the special interest in front of the people's interest. we need a governor that will support the people's interests. >> thank you very much, mr. brady. mr. quinn, a question i would like to address to both of you, there seems to be a dichotomy on

the issue of life. you do not one to reinstitute executions for fear of taking an innocent human life, yet you support abortion. your opponent, mr. burdick, opposes abortion but seems to be in favor of the death penalty. how these where that issue about what? >> i think that the death penalty should be used in heinous incidents. there are innocent people on death row that were going to be put to death wrongly. we have to reform our death penalty law in illinois. there are fundamental reforms enacted and there was a moratorium put in to make sure that those reforms were actually carried out and practice. i think that the moratorium should continue. that is the best way to protect the public interest. we also need to ban assault weapons. the number one sear in the

cities is the fear of being shot did he need to have a governor that understands that we need to protect children and live by banning assault weapons and keeping child abusers and domestic spouse abusers from having guns. that is part of fighting for life as well. i am the governor of illinois and i have to take responsibility every day to preserve and protect the people. i have done that by standing up for law enforcement officers, veterans, military families, and i understand how important it is. i visited with a mother who had lost her son in afghanistan. we honor his life and mourn his loss. >> mr. brady, a pay is -- you oppose abortions in the death penalty? >> i believe in protecting innocent human life. but i do not believe that heinous criminals put on death row who have been convicted and sentenced to capital punishment deserve that same protection.

governor koran wants to continue a moratorium. a moratorium that does not make sense to me. i want to protect innocent human beings from being put to death under capital punishment. governor quinn has punted on this issue like he punted on jobs. we cannot afford a governor that will not stand up and leave. a governor who leads in this issue will lead the people of illinois. when it comes to protecting public safety, i think the fraternal order of police, whose membership has 35 million members, understands who will best protect. violent offenders will not be released early on the streets, putting our citizens at risk. >> mr. brady, in follow, you both mentioned jobs. he said that the state has lost 200,000 jobs since mr. quinn took over. mr. quinn says that bill leaves

in jobs. >> governor quinn does not take into account the loss of jobs. he knows about this job or that, but illinois has lost more jobs, 200,000 jobs for hard- working illinois families. in the last two months, we lost 26,000 jobs. this is not a national issue anymore. other states in the nation created more jobs than the loss. in governor koran has put illinois in a condition of being only one of eight states that remain in recession. he has failed to lee on policy like workers' comp reform. he continues to threaten and increase taxes on families and businesses, killing jobs. we need someone to stand up for families and businesses, and i will do that by creating jobs. >> any time anyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not

everyone is entitled to their own facts. the facts are that our state, for eight straight months has had reduced unemployment during we have reduced the number of people that are unemployed. we have a long way to go. i inherited the worst recession in our lifetime from george bush. he was president. i did not support him. my opponent did. he was an ardent supporter of george bush's failed economic policies that have come to our state of illinois. let's talk about the facts. we have brought a company to illinois that makes and rover cars for the people of our state. 250 new jobs. just yesterday, we brought a company that had eight jobs and grew to 900 jobs today and they will move to 1150 jobs in a year or two. that is a good record of creating jobs and working with everyday people. >> senator brady, you have been

a member of either the illinois house or the illinois senate for the past 17 years. can you cite for the viewers watching your three most important legislative accomplishments during that time? i would like to hear about bills on which you took the lead in sponsorship. >> i care deeply about education. that is why in 1995, when the federal rules on teachers health insurance and pension funds would have left a retired teacher without health insurance, i led the charge to sponsor legislation to create the first program so retired teachers would have helped -- would have health benefits. the comptroller of the currency said that you can no longer have insurance. it brought competition and give consumers an opportunity. i took the lead on that role as

well. i also worked hard to support my community college by helping fund the community college. to bring an environment to it. if you do not do anything by yourself in springfield. you can take the lead in some issues, you can support others. i have worked hard to support various initiatives, including initiating jessicas law in illinois. i a myth that the democratic controlled senate took the bill away from me, but i am proud of the fact that i initiated the law to protect the most mobile. >> mr. quinn? >> i have been around awhile. senator bradley has been in springfield lot longer than i have, but i believe in recall. we have on the ballot for people to vote on. illinois' largest consumer group was against unfair utility rates. i believe in fighting for consumers. also, that means fighting the

insurance companies when they are unfair. i have been able to win insurance reform to help protect the health of everyday folks. the whole issue of making sure that we have a good budget, we were able to pass landmark legislation forming -- reforming the pension fund. we were able to invest in roads and bridges and make sure that we build schools. we announce a $270 million program to build new schools in illinois to help education. that is really what is all about when it comes to accomplishments. a ford motor co. came to our state with 1200 new manufacturing jobs. they did not go to indiana, the came to illinois because we have well educated, well skilled workers. navistar is taking jobs from indiana and taking them to illinois. that is because we have educated workers. that is what governors do. >> the follow-up is to you, governor. during your 19 months in office

as governor and your dealings with the legislature and trying to resolve the budget impasse, why should illinois voters believe that during the full term, you would be any more effective than you have been during these past months as you have been governor. >> i think we have a record of cutting the budget in a prudent way. we will not harm our education or health care or programs for veterans. i understood that. my opponent wants to increase the budget deficit. i stand against that kind of nonsense. i think it is important to have a government that is consistent, who tells the legislature in plain language that we have to invest in our schools. that is the best investment we can make. my opponent wants to cut education and raise property taxes. that is the wrong way to go in illinois.

we can have a stronger economy with more teachers are accountable. we need to make sure our students of the best in the whole world. >> response? >> under the first years of governor quince -- governor when's ship, we have the deficit. to your point, if we were happy with the way illinois is going, if you want and illinois, is a state that can turn the page governor quinn has had his chance to leave. as governor, i will leave it in the governor's office and we will bring well-paid jobs to illinois. >> rebecca sanchez, your question goes to mr. quinn. >> 13% of the state budget goes

to the discretionary budget. we really need transparency. how have to spend that? >> we have transparency and openness like never before and illinois. we enacted a stronger freedom of information act that i have signed. lisa madigan worked with me to get the job done for the public. i have worked with lisa madigan on that all the time to rid we also understand that it ought to be on line. we have put everything imaginable online so that we have an electronic democracy in illinois thrift if people want to nominate themselves to be on a board or commission, they can go on line and do exactly that. we also make sure that we file information with the comptroller. we budget for the outcome by law. everything needs to be put

before the taxpayers so that they can see that. we understand that. my opponent did not vote for the budgeting for results law, he opposed it. the also opposed reducing his own pay. i reduced my pay. the governor has to reduce his pay. i did. it is important that senator breathe the same. -- >> what did you do with the discretionary funding stacks you failed to insert the question. -- funding? . he failed to answer the question. we need a governor who will present the facts to the people and make spending transparent. his failure and inability to do so has put us in a position of not knowing with a clear picture what the l.a. finances are.

it is important to bring in an auditor to look at the miss spending of the current administration over the last couple -- misspending of the current administration over the last couple of years. i will conduct the audit and make it transparent. my government will be transparent to the people of illinois. >> how would you spend it? >> the money of the people of the state of illinois, each year, i give a blueprint of how the money is spent. we maintain the spending for education and health care. for public safety endeavor veterans. they want to cut the veterans affairs department by millions

of dollars. these soldiers are coming home from iraq and afghanistan. we need to make sure we have appropriate programs for them. i have done this in a prudent way by eliminating wasteful spending. it is important to have a governor who does that. not a reckless governor who wants to increase the budget deficit. >> it does not matter how many times you say you have cut spending, it is still not true. you have racked up record deficits in debt. as governor, i will not attack any one area in state spending. in his last budget, he texas classroom spending by over $1 billion in just $1 of reductions in the bureaucracy of education. he slashed public safety.

as governor, i will balance the budget and make every area of state government focus on how they can spend. we will reduce every major area by a dime and a dollar. i never said i would slash veteran affairs. i will cut wasteful state spending. >> your shop -- this question goes to mr. brady. >> the chicago board of education collapse financially years ago. governor thompson convened an emergency summit at a mansion in springfield on a cold day in january. he brought in all the stakeholders. when they cannot, they had a plan to put the finenesses of the board of education back together. do we need a similar approach so

that a day after inauguration, he sit down with all the stakeholders in the deal with the unfunded pension liability. it is not going to get fixed with plans on paper. there are unions and lobbyists. shouldn't they all be in one room for a week or until smoke comes out of the chimney and you actually have a solution? >> absolutely. he has dropped the ball. i need an audit. once we complete it, we will see the facts and bring the stakeholders to the table. it takes leadership and someone who is willing to stand up for the people, not just the special interests. here is an example. we did this in a bipartisan way when it came to mccormick place. it was standing to lose billions of dollars in investment.

we sat down and came up with a solution, only to have it vetoed by mr. quinn. as governor, i will work with all the stakeholders to bring about new resolutions to the crisis illinois is facing. >> i have taken on special interest of all my life. senator brady is on their campaign payroll. we have taken on others. he voted against a bill that would have let a new mother's station hospital for more than 24 hours. he wanted to kick him out of a hospital after one day of stay just like the insurance companies. i understand the importance of jobs. that is why we have had in illinois declining unemployment. we work carefully with business.

the following will be a factor of in our state. gps is here. there are all kinds of opportunities. this is a governor that cares about everyday people and has credibility. >> let me ask you. illinois has 7000 units of government, twice as many as any other state. half of our school districts are one school. what is your plan to systematically attacked this over abundance of units of government in the interest of efficiency and economy and streamlining? >> i have worked with this my entire life. we are trying to reach thousands of homeowners and businesses all across illinois. it is important to cut the number of units of governments. there is duplication.

we have to fight and lower property taxes. my opponent wants to cut state supported by the over $1 billion. the state of illinois is the primary responsibility to funding of schools. local property taxes go through the roof as a result. debt -- brady wants to raise your property taxes. >> let me remind you education funding by over $1 billion. we need to address this issue. we need to look at other options to consolidate school districts and others. but we do not have the resources necessary to get the job done. i believe it is a good investment for the state to provide resources in the short

term to force consolidation and leaving the benefits of savings in the off years. we need more efficiency and effectiveness in the operation. >> you have a commercial that says brinkley was allowing the government to seize private lands. what are the specifics of that? >> the chicago tribune wrote a story about it. when he was a state senator, on three separate occasions, he voted on bills that directly affect his real-estate interests. that is a conflict of interest. we do not need a governor of illinois like the last few doing this. one person use his own position and i call for a resignation and in the impeachment of rod blagojevich. i also promoting recalls.

we cannot have a governor who does not before the election into law questions about this. senator brady has refused to do this during this whole campaign. he only gave a glimpse of his income tax return. i have done that all my life, every day. our tax returns are available for the public. senator brady is running and he refuses to do so. and this is not helpful to the people. >> are you the same person who told us rod blagojevich was an honest man and a man of integrity. either you were asleep at the wheel or more interested about your election and about the interests of others. the next governor should not -- what about a secret pay raises? there was no conflict of

interest in these pieces of legislation. i am above that. as governor, i will not allow for it. >> a quick follow-up on these issues. we get to the point where you say certain things about the votes. >> one dealt with private property rights. the first vote dealt with in issue before i had an interest in a piece of property. the other denaud include the property that we own. >> i do not think anybody accepts it. there were several votes that reflected his real-estate company. he voted on those matters. he had a conflict of interest. that is something that a

governor should not do. you cannot have private business interests affecting your judgment in anyway. i have never had a conflict of interests. the people of illinois want to know ahead of time what is going on here. he has not given as audited financial statements about his business. it is very important that the people of illinois have a governor that forestalled the time for them. i stood up to george ryan. senator graham supporter george ryan in 1988 when he ran for governor. i stood up for rod blagojevich. but i also call for his recall one more information was released about him. this senator was not there for the public, just like he is not telling us the truth today about his own conflicts of interest.

he wants to help himself financially. we connected shot in illinois if any businesses feel the governor has a conflict of interest. i do not. >> thanks. >> what is your position on seven sides, as you do business with the state of illinois. do you believe they are necessary and would the administration actively support this? >> it is important to elevate and employed people for minority businesses. they need the opportunity to grow. we cannot just have large businesses grow. as a small-business person, i understand the importance of it.

they are achieving their ability to start small businesses to grow. >> i believe in set asides. i campaigned for them. i wanted minority businesses to get contracts. i also believe in other forms in minority neighborhoods across the state. showing up is part of being accountable. as governor, i have to into these questions. i understand the importance of getting the minimum wage in illinois. my opponent visited -- voted against minimum wage and now wants to cut it and take $2,000 out of the pockets of ordinary

everyday people earning minimum wage. that is a bad way to go. he wants to end the program of putting by norris to work. they are working for private businesses. they should stay on the job. from china to check every month? that is the wrong way to go. we need someone who will fight for ordinary people and who are not getting a fair break. >> do you respond to the governors charged it to you have been ignoring important forms in the african-american community? >> construction jobs, permanent jobs -- you were a wall. he went with the special

interest once again. it is not just those jobs but also standing up for education. they bring choices to students and parents. you killed a bill by siding with the special interests instead of the students and the people. we stand for the people of illinois. gov. quinn has been a wall when it comes to the educational interests of the students in some of the worst performing districts in the state. >> there is no secret as to why he got an f on affirmative action. many unemployed workers are african-american across our state. i work night and day on behalf of economic development for our state.

8 million lost jobs in america that we inherited from george bush. senator brady wants to deregulating bakes and give tax breaks to wealthy special interests. that is the wrong way to go. that is what george bush did and that is why our economy is the way it is. we need to focus on job creation initiatives. the new york times has said this is one of the best programs in america to take people out of work and put them on a job that they can support their family with. >> thank you. out of time.

>> do either of you plan on appointing one hispanic person elected to? >> i do. we have someone with the human rights commission who is hispanic. another person has been working fuente. i have tried to make sure that reveals goals here in chicago and across the illinois, more building and rebuilding of schools. that is important to our hispanic children. i have a person who believes strongly in education as i do.

i honor of those soldiers of illinois who have given their lives for our country. i went to a high school where three young hispanic marines gave their lives for our country. i went to the school there to make sure that we honor their lives. >> i believe the brady in administration needs to represent the population of illinois. we have been in touch with a number of hispanic leaders throughout chicago and the rest of the state. it is not just latinos end hispanics, but all across illinois. the brady administration will represent the interest of the state of illinois. we need good leaders in each community. i will make sure that we are represented as such.

[unintelligible] >> i know you had a fund-raiser held by a former person. it seemed like you're contradicting yourself when you're talking about this. i'm not sure any of his former allies fall under that category. >> and not sure who you are speaking of. they have been involved.

they hosted a fund-raiser for me to help support within the latino chamber of commerce. i believe they are representative of the interests. they care deeply about their community. i look forward to their guidance. i want to bring a wealth represented gov. to illinois. >> it is important to know that we help all people in illinois. i favor of immigration reform. the arizona law, a ratio profiling law -- racial law.iling wal

i think a governor such as we should stand up and speak out against immigration reform and anything involved with racial profiling. three young marines gave their lives for our country. they were hispanic. they proved their citizenship already. >> the ticking time bomb deals with pension liability of $80 billion. there was an element of reform. it affects future employees. most experts believe the significant changes have to be made. the health benefits going for the current employees. the last step was like a band-

aid on a hemorrhage. >> they have doubled this during their short eight years. now the people of illinois are saddled with an $80 billion deficit. i believe we have to protect the people paying into this interest. it is not their fault that rod blagojevich and another did not pay. we have to continue the program as it has been. this will perspective remove state employees into businesses to fund contributions that are owned by the employees. we do not want them squandered what they have been in previous and the ministrations. >> this is ridiculous. senator brady has been in office for several years serving under

republican governors, supporting them as they failed to properly we pay the pensions of the people of illinois. i am the first governor to take on this difficult issue. we've tested reform will. -- we pass a reform law. -- passed a reform law. brady helped create the problem but is pointing a finger at me. it is not easy. sometimes you have to do what is right for the people. in january of last year, i set

up was going to do everything i could and i have done my very best. we are speaking about baby steps. the state took another one on campaign financial reform. tell the audience what single thing you would do to promote or fight for that would reduce the influence the money on elections in illinois? >> i would petition a referendum. that is what i have been doing all of my life. i believe in using the power to reduce the size of the legislature current we have been able to legislate other ethnic standards as well. the best way to strengthen the people of illinois is to have an ethics initiative. people at the global and state

ethic in campaign reforms. -- a and campaign reforms. -- you cannot have the backbone to stand up to people on your own recommendations. he backed down in the corner. term limits, contribution limits, and legislative districts drawn by a computer for the community interests not help serving politicians. math does not lie. increase the to and from a liability by 35 billion plus dollars. he fail to meet the obligation. in '95, republicans passed pension reform. that was something that rod

blagojevich ignored. >> i want to talk about financing and how we get out of this whole. a 33% increase in the state income tax was necessary. will we ever get out of this hole? >> the best way to have jobs today in addition the future is to make sure we invest in our schools. my opponent wants to cut education funding by 1.2 $6 billion. property taxes -- $1.2 billion. property taxes would skyrocket. we should have a fair revenue system, based on the ability to pay. pay whether you have a good year or have income at all.

i do not want any state to out- educate illinois. >> i know you are opposed to a state income tax increase. >> no new taxes. in the first few weeks, quinn took office, he made some increases. he is a career insider politician. he went on to the profit tax appeals board and then he went to the treasury's office. he was a partner with rod blagojevich recently.

we need people that will represent the interest of the people, not special interests. >> u-haul brady a billionaire -- you call brady a billionaire. he says you have put the state in the hole. you say our state is the same as any other state in this economy. how can you call each other names? >> gov. quinn [unintelligible] i have paid every time my code. -- dime i owed.

he has racked up a $13 billion budget deficit, because he has not redefined state government at a level we can afford. just last week, the urban institute issued a statement saying curvature quinn is the worst deadbeat governor when it comes to funding -- gov. quinn is the worst deadbeat the the governor when it comes to funding expenditures. we need someone who will balance our budget so local agencies can work to provide the services with and what they receive. >> indiana has a higher unemployment rate then illinois. months after months of declining unemployment, we have a long way to go. we are starting to grow jobs.

boeing is taking jobs from its 08 -- from missouri and bringing them to illinois. i do not want to cut the minimum wage like brady, a millionaire, who does not pay any income tax. minimum wage people do pay income tax. that is not right. >> that brings us to the end of the questions. we have closing statements for one minute each. >> thank you very much. illinois is at a crossroads. we are rich in opportunity and resources. we needed new leadership. it matters. gov. quinn has tried to run the state over the last few years into the ground. record deficits, $13 billion deficits. over 200,000 jobs lost for hard working illinois families.

if you want to continue down the path of higher taxes and fees, of vote for pat quinn. if you want to different, vote for me. >> i took the oath of office in a tough time. we reform our government, cleaned it up. we are much better today when it comes to ethics in government. george bush created a big mess in our country. we have to recover like every other state. we have been doing that creating more jobs than any other state in the midwest. it is important to have a governor with a heart for everyday people. >> thanks very much. we appreciate your time and efforts. thanks for watching and we urge you to vote. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national

cable satellite corp. 2010] ♪ ♪ >> former president bill clinton is expected to campaign in chicago on tuesday. pat quinn is concentrating his efforts in chicago. his challenger is spending much of his time in central and southern illinois. tonight, they spend much time in chicago where state election of -- state offices are often

decided. our political coverage continues with the massachusetts governor's debate. the candice discuss the commonwealth economy and the crime rate. this is one hour. >> welcome to the 22 news broadcast center in massachusetts. this will be the only gubernatorial debate here to take place in western massachusetts. is originating from a broadcast

studios. this will be available online on our website. our viewers have some added some of the questions we will ask our candidates to night. we are committed to bringing the information you need to know to make informed decisions on election day this november 2. thanks for your for dissipation. -- participation. >> good evening. welcome to the gubernatorial debate in massachusetts. i am from public television. i will be the moderator. here are the candidates. mr.ublican charlie bankker,

patrick, governor. >> thanks for tuning in and participating. years ago, i promised to serve as governor of the whole state, and i have kept that promise. i have been here on the farms and in the streets. i have then at soldier standoffs in our performances. we have made certain choices and western massachusetts has been on my mind and heart. we have tried to invest in job creation and education and health care. that is how we will build a better commonwealth and to lift ourselves out of the whole we are in right now. we are getting results. we are first in the nation in

student achievement in health care coverage. i want to finish what we started. i hope tonight we have an opportunity to talk about how we do that together. >> one minute, joe stein. -- jo stein. >> i am in here to give a real choice of change. of one to close the budget? . we need to cut the critical services -- tax giveaways for the well-connected, that could save us billions and turn it into secured green jobs around

the commonwealth in energy and transportation. this could save us money and provide us with secure jobs that western massachusetts needs along with the rest of the commonwealth. i can advance win-win solutions that businesses typically keep off of the table. >> thanks. next? >> i got in this race 15 months ago because i was worried about the direction that massachusetts was heading in. 300,000 people are out of work. despite the positive spin the governor may want to put on it, we have not had this type of job loss in massachusetts in 20 years.

i do not think we are doing enough to get our economy going again. despite billions of dollars in federal stimulus money, mass. still faces a $2 billion deficit next year that we have to clean up. we need someone who knows how to make the tough decisions to restore the fiscal health of the commonwealth. of afford to discussing the issues tonight. >> thanks. it is an honor to be here for this debate. a look forward to it. i am in this to give the state independent leadership. i think we need to go in a new direction. western massachusetts has been

left behind in this recession. despite what is happening within the beltway, unemployment is at record highs. we need a real jobs plan for the future. we need to end the person in the end the bickering. we need to go in a different direction, so that we can break down the barriers here in massachusetts. invest in the government structures and make sure the government does not waste money. we cannot continue to raise taxes as we go forward. >> we now move to questions from our panelist journalists. here they are.

>> and mr. baker, you signed a no new taxes' pledge. considering the slow economic recovery, how will you keep that pledge and should you be presented with tax increases, would you veto it? >> it is important that we send a loud and clear message to the people of massachusetts debt begin hail will not come looking for them to bail the state out. we have huge economic issues. if we want to get those 300,000 people out of work back to work, we have to stop presuming we can go back to the tax payers to solve the state fiscal problems.

specific proposals to reform this -- i want to send a loud and clear message that this has to stop. we have to change the way we do business on beacon hill. we need to send a clear message that the state will balance its books the same way everybody else does. people do not know what is going to happen and may cost them money. >> i have proposed 1 billion some savings from cutting the waste will health insurance bureaucracy. why not cut the red tape? i agree that facing the fiscal crisis coming up is a way we can trim the budget. 10 years ago, health care was

25% of the budget. this year it is 50%. it is the one thing that has been going. everything else has been shrinking. this is costing us billions. to have to 75 people to file the paper work. there is enormous savings that we can go after. year for jobs that were never completed. >> if we accept and enact those fiscal proposals then property taxes go up and tolls on the turnpike go up. school building assistance goes away. we can talk about slogans and

gimmicks, but they do not solve problems. the difference between us is not tax dollars. i am willing to cut taxes when i think it is wise. the question is what is the rice -- right balance? we should be investing in education. that is a better choice for the people of the commonwealth for white tail and the future. >> i have not signed a pledge as mr. baker has. i am pledging not to raise taxes over the next four years, because of a middle-class cannot afford it. we have to make it work better and cheaper. if we have to make cuts, then we

have to do that so that we can live within charmian's. -- our means. it must stay with the taxpayer and the owner. i believe in that. we should not go back to individuals and small businesses every time we cannot get a budget fight. we have to be better at protecting our numbers and be more conservative. raising the sales tax was the wrong thing to do last year. we cannot go back to those days. >> there is a labor market report today showing 20,000 jobs lost. it shows the unemployment rate dropped. it is a mixed record. we are not feeling it so much.

the unemployment rate getting better. other towns like springfield have similar problems elsewhere in the state. what specifically, what plans do you have for creating jobs and how would you pay for it? >> green jobs tend to pay for themselves. it is very true that the recovery mostly in the boston area that is high-tech. it is probably depended on the stimulus package itself. green jobs can apply all over the commonwealth. the agricultural economy is thriving. i like to take some of the reports being given to

unproductive areas of the economy. $200 million is the extent for shopping malls. i want to start of these small businesses in clean energy and healthy foods an act of transportation's and safe sidewalks and create those jobs. >> you can not to grow jobs without a growth strategy. we have a strategy for the whole common law -- commonwealth that we have tailored. we have invested in education at the highest level. in innovation, certain companies, they have taken hold here in western massachusetts

and in some cases have been invented. broadband expansion. the high-performance computing system. . liberty mutual moved some facilities here. ,e are extending the market's which has brought rates down. lots of examples. >> thanks. how can we lose 20,000 jobs and unemployment go down? people are jumping out of the job market. we cannot allow people to quit. i have called for entrepreneurialism relief.

give them some relief. they do not need to rely on big business for tax credits. they can do it out here. they can start businesses in their own community as i did. i think that is the key to our growth and our success. it will give people hope and bring them back to the marketplace. >> i think the news is bad. 20,000 jobs lost in september. the reason the unemployment rate fell is because more people were discouraged and stopped looking.

for all of the talk about bringing jobs, the high-tech performance -- there is low-cost hydroelectric cars. we will pay hundreds of millions of dollars since the of pursuing a more aggressive strategy in which could result in more sheep for renewable energy. there is a lot of manufacturing of here. we should figure out how to make them grow. we are not focusing enough on cost. >> you have been asked in the

past if you would implement the rule of the people? >> i have been clear about that. in a responsible leader needs to be clear about this. we are talking about the same kind of impact as fiscal policies imposed on my opponent. increases in tolls and property taxes. regional bus service -- we are talking about the the school bus program disappearing and other areas getting worse or going away. we have to be candid about that with people. the plant proposed by charlie would have the same impact. let us choose and be honest with people. i think people are hungry for us

to be candid about it. we should be clear about advocating the calamity if it did. >> thanks for the question. i think the question moves too quickly to fast. it will have an impact on local government. if it passes and is the will of the people, we will do our best to implement it. we will have to do that quickly. i cannot say there is one thing in our budget will not be impacted. everything would suffer. at the same time, people would get a tax break.

they would go out and spend money, and hopefully that would improve things. we can still bring in tax relief if it does pass. i think this question goes too far too fast. >> i agree. gov. patrick increased state spending rebellion dollars and cut local aid by $700 million. as a result, property taxes went up by 11% while property values fell. the next governor a budget deficit. if we are serious about creating a climate in massachusetts that

is competitive in getting people back to work, we need a tax relief. some say it would affect their ability to expand and create jobs. >> question 3 goes too far too fast, if it passes, i will respect the will of the voters and implemented. i have long advocated for adjustments in our tax structure altogether. when you step back and look at how the state and local taxes add up, middle class families are playing twice the rate as millionaires and billionaires are.

i would not implement that by itself. i would work very hard to compensate for it by increasing the tax contribution at the high end. there are many ways to do that. it would be one more reason to pull back on tax giveaways so we have -- >> time please. next question. >> on monday in springfield, the district attorney revealed that a convicted murderer has admitted that he killed nine women in springfield during the 1990's. it does not have capital punishment. under what circumstances would you support the death penalty

for support it for someone who killed nine people? >> i would. i do not think we have to go that far. there are certain cases of premeditated murder that we need a death penalty here in massachusetts. we have to be careful about putting innocent people to death if we had that. that is a challenge in this state as well as others. -- once convicted and it is decided that these people be put to death, i would support it in massachusetts. we want criminals like this one not to get away with what he has gotten away with. >> i am a big believer that the d.a. has a jurisdiction that is appropriate about whether or not

to pursue a death penalty. i thought the legislation that almost passed would have been an acceptable bill. we wanted to make sure it was appropriately administered. i want to include anyone who kills or murder is a law enforcement official. lawbreakers in criminals -- the de a budget has gone down dramatically over the past quarter for years. we need to invest in them if we want to keep our streets safe. >> this is the case where one would want to apply the death

penalty, because it is so horrendous. but the death penalty is not a deterrent. we do not want our justice system to be about revenge, but about determines and rehabilitation where possible. in this case, while it would be satisfying in some ways to have the death penalty, we know, it does not function as a deterrent. we know that mistakes occur. i do not support it. it is important for us to go upstream and speak about a wave of crime and violence taking place among the youth for poverty and homelessness have come together. >> thanks for the question. this is a horrible crime.

there are instances of real animals out there creating crimes like this. for them, i believe death by incarceration is the right outcome. i am the only one who has had aspects -- experience with all aspects of this. as a prosecutor, i have had to make decisions about the use of the death penalty. i have defended against it. this is one of the handful of areas where the government cannot be relied upon to make a wise decision every time. i do not support the death penalty. i do support life without the possibility of parole like some of the most heinous crimes like the one you have referred to. >> there has been debate about whether the state should stick mcat tests. test

what are your thoughts on the use of these as a means to proving these states' educational environment? >> the most important thing is the bipartisan support it had to raise the standards and create a common standard in massachusetts for students going through the school system. i think it proved to be successful overtime. system and made it one of the tough ones in the country. we still have a long way to go. the governor's decision to join this was